PK goals for/against in TFC history

[RKing85]

Hey everyone, first time poster.

Maybe this is something that has been brought up before. If so, my apologies.

Thinking last night that it seemed TFC never got penalty kicks and out opponents always got them. So this morning I went through wiki (I know, a very reliable resource) and counted all the Penalty Kick goals scored for and against TFC throughout it's history. This is only goals from the spot, not overall chances from the spot.

Year - TFC/Opponents

2007 - 1 / 8
2008 - 0 / 7
2009 - 0 /4
2010 - 3 / 8
2011 - 3 / 6
2012 - 0 / 2
2013 - 2/ 2
2014 - 0 / 4

Overall - 9 / 41

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything. But HOLY SHIT!!!! Is that not insane!?!?!?!?! Our opponents have over 5 times as many Penalty kicks goals as TFC in TFC's history!

[Yohan]

With stellar defenders like Marvell 'Handball' Wynne, Nick 'the Turtle' Garcia and Doneil 'the Clueless Hulk' Henry, no wonder PKs get called against TFC

[ryan]

Yeah, having poor or young defenders most of the time, combined with an anemic offensive attack that doesn't force tough tackles in the box....and the numbers fit.

[jabbronies]

You know what would really shed light on this - who the refs were that gave us these cards.

I bet most of them are from Toledo and Pretrescu

[MartinUtd]

You know what would really shed light on this - who the refs were that gave us these cards.

I bet most of them are from Toledo and Pretrescu

Sometimes I wonder if MLS has any other refs.

[RoyalRed]

Here are last year's MLS stats. Check them out, and see if anything jumps out as ... unusual. Hint: TOLEDO IS A FUCKING RED CARD MACHINE AND LEADS ON YELLOWS.


2013 Referee Stats




Referee
Games
Yellow Cards
Red Cards
Yellows per Game
Reds per Game



Bazakos, Fotis (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-fotis-bazakos.php)

13
59
3
4.5
0.2



Chapman, Allen (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-allen-chapman.php)

22
69
4
3.1
0.2



Elfath, Ismail (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-ismail-elfath.php)

17
67
2
3.9
0.1



Fischer, Drew (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-drew-fischer.php)

16
47
2
2.9
0.1



Foerster, Matthew (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-matthew-foerster.php)

11
38
2
3.5
0.2



Gamble, Geoff (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-geoff-gamble.php)

5
17
2
3.4
0.4



Gantar, Dave (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-david-gantar.php)

8
21
2
2.6
0.3



Geiger, Mark (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-mark-geiger.php)

15
44
5
2.9
0.4



Gonzalez, Jorge (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-jorge-gonzalez.php)

13
42
8
3.2
0.6



Grajeda, Hilario (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-hilario-grajeda.php)

24
68
4
2.8
0.2



Guzman, Juan (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-juan-guzman.php)

16
43
6
2.7
0.4



Jurisevic, Edvin (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-edvin-jurisevic.php)

15
39
4
2.6
0.3



Kadlecik, Mark (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-mark-kadlecik.php)

2
2
0
1.0
0.0



Marrufo, Jair (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-jair-marrufo.php)

13
19
0
1.5
0.0



Penso, Chris (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-chris-penso.php)

17
53
6
3.1
0.4



Petrescu, Silviu (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-silviu-petrescu.php)

19
71
3
3.7
0.2



Rivero, Jose Carlos (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-jose-carlos-rivero.php)

11
38
2
3.5
0.2



Salazar, Ricardo (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-ricardo-salazar.php)

21
60
6
2.9
0.3



Stoica, Sorin (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-sorin-stoica.php)

10
43
4
4.3
0.4



Stott, Kevin (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-kevin-stott.php)

14
33
1
2.4
0.1



Toledo, Baldomero (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-baldomero-toledo.php)

23
74
12
3.2
0.6



Unkel, Ted (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-ted-unkel.php)

3
11
0
3.7
0



Villarreal, Armando (http://www.proreferees.com/roster-armando-villarreal.php)

22
67
6
3.0
0.3

[ryan]

leading on yellows is misleading due to the games he's officiated. However, a 50% red rate is fucking LOL.

[Pookie]

Overall - 9 / 41

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything. But HOLY SHIT!!!! Is that not insane!?!?!?!?! Our opponents have over 5 times as many Penalty kicks goals as TFC in TFC's history!

Correlate that with possession and shots for and against. Without doing the math, I'd wager we spend more time defending (sorry…counter attacking) in most games that we play over our history.

If the ball not in their attacking 3rd, it's probably pretty hard to win penalties.

[RoyalRed]

leading on yellows is misleading due to the games he's officiated. However, a 50% red rate is fucking LOL.

Fair point re: yellows, though others who officiate similar numbers all come in lower than he does.

[TFC07]

Why doesn't MLS invest more in their refs? We got refs that hand out red cards every two games which is insane! Is there a ref outside MLS has that rate? The league needs to investigate into this matter.

[Derko]

You know what would really shed light on this - who the refs were that gave us these cards.

I bet most of them are from Toledo and Pretrescu

The thing I get out of the numbers is both Toledo and Petrescu WANT to determine the outcome of a match, which is wrong

[jabbronies]

The thing I get out of the numbers is both Toledo and Petrescu WANT to determine the outcome of a match, which is wrong

Or right depending on whom you are in the football world.
Corruption in North American football is a real thing and it's things like calls by the ref that people are betting on.

[ryan]

I'm not 100% sure I agree with that.

There's no one way to referee sport, any sport. Strike zone in MLB, fouls in NBA, penalties in NHL, etc. All subject to the referee's opinion and/or what he simply sees/doesn't see.

Considering human beings aren't all generic clones, variance should be expected. Variety is the spice of life and all that jazz.



A ref who's more aggressive/active in their calls doesn't confirm corruption at all. A ref could be equally corrupt by choosing not to call fouls, but there's no statistics behind that.

I don't think their style is wrong at all, it's simply their style and how they choose to moderate the game. It's only when you see extreme deviation that you wonder, in this case Toledo's use of the Red card.

[Initial B]

Considering what Nelsen said post game about Toledo, does anybody find it surprising that there has been no reaction from either MLS or PRO on the matter? No disciplinary measures?

[Abou Sky]

Toledo doesn't really bother me too much, he generally let's the game play not too inhibited and I find that he screws both teams pretty equally, Petrescu OTOH...

That man ruins the game and makes it unwatchable.

[cochrdoc]

Not only is TFC getting screwed,all 3 Canadian teams had penalties called against them last week.I would like to know the stats for the other 2 teams as well.

[ExiledRed]

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything.

Why not? I am. The refs are fucking corrupt, either that or they are incompetent to the extreme.

The fact that the poor reffing is never addressed leads me to believe they are acting under orders. If any team in the EPL was on the end of the kind of reffing we had during the Carver/Cummins period especially, the press would have had a field day.

Here, our 'flair' players are not protected by the referees. Whenever we play Dallas, our players get fouled brutally up and down the park with no whistle and we get called on every questionable contact. We even get the foul when it was the Dallas player fouling our guy! We get pulled offside when we are clearly not and the flag on the other side of the field operates under different rules. We are always the 'visiting' team at home also.

Its blatant.

Now Im going to be accused of wearing a tinfoil hat... watch

[Alixir]

Overall - 9 / 41

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything. But HOLY SHIT!!!! Is that not insane!?!?!?!?! Our opponents have over 5 times as many Penalty kicks goals as TFC in TFC's history!

This is what I have been yelping for a long time now and everyone seems to focus on the "41" part....its not that, its the "9" part.
Yes we do have a high rate of pks against due to years off a back line susceptible to giving up penalties, but how is it that so many times on so many occasions we have witnessed plays in the penalty area that are not called PKs for us but if it were the other way around you know its going to be called a penalty 98% of the time.
Penalties happen in football but we are averaging 1.01 PKs a year. You cant tell me that of all the games we play in a season and of all the handballs, and fouls in the box that are clearly visible that the ref misses it or just happens to have his view obstructed almost every time.


/endPKrant

[notthesun]

Maybe it's confirmation bias but I've always felt this team was hard done by when it comes to penalties. I feel like the soft ones go against us while we never get the blatant ones in our favour.

Pookie has a point, you do make your own luck to an extent with penalties. That being said, off the top of my head the only weak penalty we've had awarded I can think of is Dunfield's flop against SKC from last year's home opener in the SkyDome. Meanwhile the list of weak penalties we've conceded could go on and on (first one that comes to mind is Osorio last season getting struck in the arm, arms stuck to his sides, while in the wall defending a free kick). And I can think of a number of bona fide penalties we've been denied as well (O'Dea getting dragged to the ground in the six yard box at BMO last season is the first I remember).

9-ish penalties awarded in our favour over 7 years... while Colorado has gotten like 7 just this year already. I won't say it's a conspiracy but I think anti-Canadian bias is very real, at least for big decisions.

[ag futbol]

With stellar defenders like Marvell 'Handball' Wynne, Nick 'the Turtle' Garcia and Doneil 'the Clueless Hulk' Henry, no wonder PKs get called against TFC
This is it. Most of this is about a few bad teams and worse defending. Really nothing to see here.

I'll bet the number of penalties is directly proportional to the number of goals we score in the run of play compared to other teams.

[MightyDM]

Why not? I am. The refs are fucking corrupt, either that or they are incompetent to the extreme.

The fact that the poor reffing is never addressed leads me to believe they are acting under orders. If any team in the EPL was on the end of the kind of reffing we had during the Carver/Cummins period especially, the press would have had a field day.

Here, our 'flair' players are not protected by the referees. Whenever we play Dallas, our players get fouled brutally up and down the park with no whistle and we get called on every questionable contact. We even get the foul when it was the Dallas player fouling our guy! We get pulled offside when we are clearly not and the flag on the other side of the field operates under different rules. We are always the 'visiting' team at home also.

Its blatant.

Now Im going to be accused of wearing a tinfoil hat... watch

I rarely agree with you, but, its clear that there is something wrong. Likely not instructions but other things - implicit pressure by the league re US teams, conversations among the referees, something.

[MightyDM]

And don't forget Caldwell's goal being called back for a mystery foul in the box. Stuff like that happens all the time. To us.

[Pookie]

Maybe it's confirmation bias but I've always felt this team was hard done by when it comes to penalties. I feel like the soft ones go against us while we never get the blatant ones in our favour.

Pookie has a point, you do make your own luck to an extent with penalties. That being said, off the top of my head the only weak penalty we've had awarded I can think of is Dunfield's flop against SKC from last year's home opener in the SkyDome. Meanwhile the list of weak penalties we've conceded could go on and on (first one that comes to mind is Osorio last season getting struck in the arm, arms stuck to his sides, while in the wall defending a free kick). And I can think of a number of bona fide penalties we've been denied as well (O'Dea getting dragged to the ground in the six yard box at BMO last season is the first I remember).

9-ish penalties awarded in our favour over 7 years... while Colorado has gotten like 7 just this year already. I won't say it's a conspiracy but I think anti-Canadian bias is very real, at least for big decisions.

Anti-Canadian bias?

What are Vancouver and Montreal's stats?

I am willing to buy a league wide conspiracy in that big name money players will go to big teams as that is the way MLS as a collective makes money.

I am not at all willing to believe that there is a conscious and direct attempt to ensure that Colorado or Chivas or New England or Columbus take points from us and keep us at the bottom of the table.

Sorry boys. You give up shots. You give up possession. You are more likely to play the game in your own box. The more you play it in your box the more likely you are to foul a player.

It is that simple.

[ExiledRed]

Anti-Canadian bias?

What are Vancouver and Montreal's stats?

I am willing to buy a league wide conspiracy in that big name money players will go to big teams as that is the way MLS as a collective makes money.

I am not at all willing to believe that there is a conscious and direct attempt to ensure that Colorado or Chivas or New England or Columbus take points from us and keep us at the bottom of the table.

Sorry boys. You give up shots. You give up possession. You are more likely to play the game in your own box. The more you play it in your box the more likely you are to foul a player.

It is that simple.

Its about making sure that teams with low attendance do better, because they need to generate more fans.

[Pookie]

Its about making sure that teams with low attendance do better, because they need to generate more fans.

So big markets with players like Defoe don't need him and the team doing well and generating big gate receipts that are shared 50% with all the other investors?

They would rather have Columbus selling $20 4 packs with hotdogs and cokes at the expense of TFC and its league high ticket prices?

[ExiledRed]

So big markets with players like Defoe don't need him and the team doing well and generating big gate receipts that are shared 50% with all the other investors?

They would rather have Columbus selling $20 4 packs with hotdogs and cokes at the expense of TFC and its league high ticket prices?

My suspicion has always been that we were not supposed to be a big team with massive support. We were supposed to be filler for the league. That was how we were set up, what they expected us to be and that probably explains the lack of initial marketing dollars and skimping on infrastructure. The turnout and hype that was generated by the fans themselves changed everything.

Of course they want the big names in LA and NY and of course they want those teams to do well, but they cannot afford to have a league with teams that disappear or change cities every season. They need to increase the market as a whole, especially the TV, and as a result teams like Columbus, Dallas, SKC, and RSL, (all who had empty stadiums when we joined the league) need to be more competitive in order to attract new fans.

You like numbers, check the attendance to success figures prior to 2010

[notthesun]

I am not at all willing to believe that there is a conscious and direct attempt to ensure that Colorado or Chivas or New England or Columbus take points from us and keep us at the bottom of the table.

Don't twist my words. I didn't say this and I wouldn't believe it either.

[shwade]

Henrys probably given up half of those.

Toronto never gets penalties called against the other team. .countless handballs and fouls have gone unpunished when they definitely would've been called against toronto.

[ExiledRed]

This is what I have been yelping for a long time now and everyone seems to focus on the "41" part....its not that, its the "9" part.

Well put.

And lets not pretend we were hardly ever in their box. Chad Barrett alone missed more chances from the box than SKC had shots on net in a season.

[ExiledRed]

Why doesn't MLS invest more in their refs? We got refs that hand out red cards every two games which is insane! Is there a ref outside MLS has that rate? The league needs to investigate into this matter.

Or the league itself needs to be investigated.

I mean the silence from them on the issue IS deafening.

[ag futbol]

Well put.

And lets not pretend we were hardly ever in their box. Chad Barrett alone missed more chances from the box than SKC had shots on net in a season.
I guess we have a different recollection of events. Save the Chris Cummins team in season 3, this has always been a team that gets heavily out chanced. People consistently would cling to the odd half chance our under talented strikers never finished and MLS strikers in general rarely finish, and ignore we bunkered all day and usually for it.

I mean really, we set all sorts of records for futility. Is it shocking a team that bad gave up a ton of penalties? Not at all.

[Pookie]

My suspicion has always been that we were not supposed to be a big team with massive support. We were supposed to be filler for the league. That was how we were set up, what they expected us to be and that probably explains the lack of initial marketing dollars and skimping on infrastructure. The turnout and hype that was generated by the fans themselves changed everything.

Of course they want the big names in LA and NY and of course they want those teams to do well, but they cannot afford to have a league with teams that disappear or change cities every season. They need to increase the market as a whole, especially the TV, and as a result teams like Columbus, Dallas, SKC, and RSL, (all who had empty stadiums when we joined the league) need to be more competitive in order to attract new fans.

You like numbers, check the attendance to success figures prior to 2010

If that were the case, why the "Dempsey rule" that favoured Seattle over Portland? Why pander to LA or NY with the 3 DP rule? Or put in a broad clause that says DPs of a certain value… and don't explain the value… are exempt from the Allocation process? The actual wording that allowed Bradley to end up in Toronto is Designated Players of a certain threshold – as determined by the League – are not subject to allocation ranking.

I'm not saying you are off base here. Any time a league has secretive rules, owns the teams, you'll get this kind of speculation.

That said, short of calling in Declan Hill here, I would say that our penalty issues are self imposed based on all the bunkering our teams have done.

[ExiledRed]

I guess we have a different recollection of events. Save the Chris Cummins team in season 3, this has always been a team that gets heavily out chanced. People consistently would cling to the odd half chance our under talented strikers never finished and MLS strikers in general rarely finish, and ignore we bunkered all day and generally usually for it.

I mean really, we set all sorts of records for futility. Is it shocking a team that bad gave up a ton of penalties? Not at all.

If you look at it statistically no.

If you look at the individual calls against and the 'play ons' that really should have been calls in our favour, instead of just looking at the numbers, you find yourself wondering....

Is it shocking that a team that is being fucked up the ass by the refs does so badly?

[ExiledRed]

If that were the case, why the "Dempsey rule" that favoured Seattle over Portland? Why pander to LA or NY with the 3 DP rule? Or put in a broad clause that says DPs of a certain value… and don't explain the value… are exempt from the Allocation process? The actual wording that allowed Bradley to end up in Toronto is Designated Players of a certain threshold – as determined by the League – are not subject to allocation ranking.

I'm not saying you are off base here. Any time a league has secretive rules, owns the teams, you'll get this kind of speculation.

That said, short of calling in Declan Hill here, I would say that our penalty issues are self imposed based on all the bunkering our teams have done.

the league model has changed drastically since our inaugural season. Its apparent they want two or three elite teams in the league, just like in every other. They would really like to sell as many Galaxy or Red Bull shirts as Manchester United does.

However you cant have three harlem globetrotters and seventeen washington generals.

[brad]

Tin Foil hats need to come off.

You are never going to convince me for one second that the MLS does not want to see Michael Bradley (and to a lesser extent Defoe) in the playoffs.

Bradley is arguably the most marketable player on the league in the US right now (and imagine if the US make a run in the WC and/or Bradley has a solid tournament).

No way they are conspiring against us/him.

[ExiledRed]

Tin Foil hats need to come off.

You are never going to convince me for one second that the MLS does not want to see Michael Bradley (and to a lesser extent Defoe) in the playoffs.

Bradley is arguably the most marketable player on the league in the US right now (and imagine if the US make a run in the WC and/or Bradley has a solid tournament).

No way they are conspiring against us/him.

Cut it out with the alien conspiracy theorist analogy. It drives me nuts. I am making an observation about past seasons, not specifically this one although the last Dallas game seemed par for the course. I actually think we'll make the playoffs this year because the other teams are even more inconsistent than us for a change.

I do not believe for one second that MLS does not and has not manipulated the league, its teams, its refereeing and its scheduling for marketing and 'long term' purposes. The very odd refereeing is a red flag for me, it cant be explained by mere incompetence, cultural differences or lesser training but it can easily be explained by bias, corruption or manipulation. To me, Occam's razor applies and this american money grab being just like any other american money grab is a more likely explanation than the MLS referees having a collective IQ of 7.

This does not make me a bunker dwelling militia leader with an arsenal of guns, hoarding food for the day when the new world order's alien masters fry the 99 percents brains out with the weapon they're developing at HAARP. got it?

Im not making excuses for this team, its rabble of unhappy players, rookie coaches and dodgy board. We've been consistently poor over 8 years. I just think we needn't have been as poor as we have.

[ag futbol]

If you look at it statistically no.

If you look at the individual calls against and the 'play ons' that really should have been calls in our favour, instead of just looking at the numbers, you find yourself wondering....

Is it shocking that a team that is being fucked up the ass by the refs does so badly?
There are bad calls sure, but every team in MLS gets those. We sit back in the box and play to defend, our strategy and futility just means there are going to be more chances for the refs to make bad calls. Other teams get the same misjudged calls too when they are in the situation.

I've followed MLS lightly over the last month, but still saw a ton of questionable penalties / non-calls in other games. This league has a lot of bad officiating, period.

[Pookie]

Tin Foil hats need to come off.

You are never going to convince me for one second that the MLS does not want to see Michael Bradley (and to a lesser extent Defoe) in the playoffs.

Bradley is arguably the most marketable player on the league in the US right now (and imagine if the US make a run in the WC and/or Bradley has a solid tournament).

No way they are conspiring against us/him.

You know, penalties aside. One thing that would make me put on a tin foil hat is if TFC one day opted to move Bradley to a US based team.

Probably would energize a fan base down there quite well. If he himself ever tires of TFC...

[brad]

I do not believe for one second that MLS does not and has not manipulated the league, its teams, its refereeing and its scheduling for marketing and 'long term' purposes. The very odd refereeing is a red flag for me, it cant be explained by mere incompetence, cultural differences or lesser training but it can easily be explained by bias, corruption or manipulation. To me, Occam's razor applies and this american money grab being just like any other american money grab is a more likely explanation than the MLS referees having a collective IQ of 7.


Okay, I'll bite. If the penalty statistics are some anti Canadian/pro-American, MLS match fix thing, then lets look at more detail that just our numbers in isolation.

2014: most penalties conceded - NYRB & Portland Timbers with 6 each. Why is the league sabotaging these two teams with penalty calls? Portland make good TV, and NYRB are the biggest untapped market in the league with big name DP's to boot.

2013: Most Penalties conceded- NYRB with 8. 3rd fewest penalties awarded at 3 - NYRB. Again, did the league stick it to NYRB, instead of us Canadians (or some small market US team)?

2012:2nd lowest penalties against - Vancouver with 2. Most penalties awarded - Montreal with 9. If the league is anti-Canadian, why did Montreal get so many penalties awarded, and Vancouver some few against?

2011 - 3rd highest penalties awarded - Vancouver with 7. Can't find penalties against in 2011.

[brad]

You know, penalties aside. One thing that would make me put on a tin foil hat is if TFC one day opted to move Bradley to a US based team.

Probably would energize a fan base down there quite well. If he himself ever tires of TFC...

You know, I don't think would not make me suspicious. He is American, and I have no doubt he would prefer to play in the US instead of Canada. But no one down there would pay him what we would, so we landed him. If he moved to someplace like NYCFC, I'd most likely assume he forced the move, and the league complied.

The league changes the rules on the fly, there is no doubt about that. The do funny stuff with allocation, they force trades when needed (like the McBride situation). They change the rules when Dempsy wants to go to Seattle. But I don't think in the majority of cases that is being to to help or hinder specific teams. It's being done because they have setup a convoluted set of rules that sometimes gets in the way of marquee player acquisitions.

Like when McBride wanted to come back but would only play in Chicago. The league rules wouldn't allow that - he was ours. So the league has the choice of bend the rules to get a big name player back, or don't get the big name player. Is it bush league? Sure. It's also probably a smart move when it comes to growing the game.

I certainly don't think this extends to match fixing. Now, that is another topic altogether, but I won't go there.

[ExiledRed]

Okay, I'll bite. If the penalty statistics are some anti Canadian/pro-American, MLS match fix thing, then lets look at more detail that just our numbers in isolation.

2014: most penalties conceded - NYRB & Portland Timbers with 6 each. Why is the league sabotaging these two teams with penalty calls? Portland make good TV, and NYRB are the biggest untapped market in the league with big name DP's to boot.

2013: Most Penalties conceded- NYRB with 8. 3rd fewest penalties awarded at 3 - NYRB. Again, did the league stick it to NYRB, instead of us Canadians (or some small market US team)?

2012:2nd lowest penalties against - Vancouver with 2. Most penalties awarded - Montreal with 9. If the league is anti-Canadian, why did Montreal get so many penalties awarded, and Vancouver some few against?

2011 - 3rd highest penalties awarded - Vancouver with 7. Can't find penalties against in 2011.

I'm sorry to dismiss your intensive research, but Im not talking just about penalties, Im talking about non calls, unpunished fouls on our players, questionable calls against, disallowed goals that were clearly goals and the predictability of the calls against us. I'm talking about the officiating as a whole, over eight seasons (especially the first five) that we have witnessed with our eyes, not statistics that we can bend and skew however we like.

Im also not claiming there is an anti-canadian bias. Im suggesting that if there is manipulation going on, it is designed to favour the less supported team or the team they want to generate more support for, not necessarily the canadian one.

That is hypothesis. I would suggest it as a motive for massaging outcomes.

I have to look for a motive because like MightyDM says, 'something' is going on. It could just as easily be that certain refs are fixing individual matches because they are being threatened by the mafia or cartels, and we've been on the flat end of that.

Its not like people dont bet on the games and this has never happened before in north american sports.

[brad]

I'm sorry to dismiss your intensive research, but Im not talking just about penalties, Im talking about non calls, unpunished fouls on our players, questionable calls against, disallowed goals that were clearly goals and the predictability of the calls against us. I'm talking about the officiating as a whole, over eight seasons (especially the first five) that we have witnessed with our eyes, not statistics that we can bend and skew however we like.

Im also not claiming there is an anti-canadian bias. Im suggesting that if there is manipulation going on, it is designed to favour the less supported team or the team they want to generate more support for, not necessarily the canadian one.

But this is a thread about penalties for and against us, which is why I am focusing on penalties....

If you want to start a general conspiracy thread - go for it. I'm here dressing the penalty situation.

But - if you want to back you point, back it with data from across the league, not baseless speculation on our own games. How do the "non calls, unpunished fouls on our players, questionable calls against, disallowed goals that were clearly goals and the predictability of the calls against us" compare to the rest of the league. Without a baseline, all you have is baseless speculation.

[ExiledRed]

But this is a thread about penalties for and against us, which is why I am focusing on penalties....

If you want to start a general conspiracy thread - go for it. I'm here dressing the penalty situation.

But - if you want to back you point, back it with data from across the league, not baseless speculation on our own games. How do the "non calls, unpunished fouls on our players, questionable calls against, disallowed goals that were clearly goals and the predictability of the calls against us" compare to the rest of the league. Without a baseline, all you have is baseless speculation.

Stop splitting hairs, its beneath you. This thread is clearly about officiating, not just about one aspect of it. Should there be a second thread about non calls and another one for fouls?

[Cashcleaner]

I'm gonna have to side with the esteemed technologist Robert Hanlon on this matter and throw out his familiar quote here:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I would be very surprised if there was any sort of effort within MLS to fix games through shady refereeing, but I do think that the league only really concerns itself with bad officiating when one of their favourite teams are involved.

Three questionable reds thrown up in a mid-week game between San Jose and Columbus? Not a problem. But you better believe guys are gonna be raked over the coals if that sorta shit happens in a tilt involving LAG, Seattle, or New York.

[ExiledRed]

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


Great quote, but business is impartial, not malicious.

I do find it odd how the concept of corruption and rigging within sport, especially with a single entity, is considered so off base that talking about it gets you compared to people who think the world is run by lizards in masks.

[Pookie]

I think people buy the concept. In some ways, the concept has evidence.

Like the new rule that allowed Bradley to land in Toronto.

This penalty thing doesn't have a lot of evidence behind it. Just a list of penalties for and against that the league's least successful franchise has had. Not surprising really. If this was an exhaustive list of all teams and there was a significant difference then maybe we could start a chat about it.

[MightyDM]

This makes sense, and explains the bias - not because we were bad, but because we were not politically powerful. It is this kind of dynamic that I meant by "something" in my earlier post. But given Caldwell's good luck recently, maybe the politics are changing. We got away with one certain and two very arguable hand balls in the box.


I would be very surprised if there was any sort of effort within MLS to fix games through shady refereeing, but I do think that the league only really concerns itself with bad officiating when one of their favourite teams are involved.

Three questionable reds thrown up in a mid-week game between San Jose and Columbus? Not a problem. But you better believe guys are gonna be raked over the coals if that sorta shit happens in a tilt involving LAG, Seattle, or New York.

[Wooster_TFC]

I think people buy the concept. In some ways, the concept has evidence.

Like the new rule that allowed Bradley to land in Toronto.

This penalty thing doesn't have a lot of evidence behind it. Just a list of penalties for and against that the league's least successful franchise has had. Not surprising really. If this was an exhaustive list of all teams and there was a significant difference then maybe we could start a chat about it.

While the rule is new, things have been confirmed as being "greased" in the past when a high profile player wanted to come to MLS to a specific team, even without a rule. Heck, even the Urruti signing still stinks.