2014 Voyageurs Cup final first leg: Montreal at Toronto, Wed 28 May 730pm

[Yohan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bNF3nwU6Q8

Montreal is on pure dumpster fire mode, and rarely gets a result in Toronto. Even a tepid TFC attack should be able to go on Hulkamania mode on Montreal defence.

[Oldtimer]

I say we win this one, even if we play a B squad.

[molenshtain]

We should play a B squad. Though at this point I'm not sure what that even entails. Does Gilberto or Moore start? or do they both start and we rest Defoe?

[pdogg]

We should play a B squad. Though at this point I'm not sure what that even entails. Does Gilberto or Moore start? or do they both start and we rest Defoe?

Start Moore and Defoe - sub one of them off for Gilberto around the 65-70' based on the scoreline. We need the points at home (and goals) to make it easier to go into Saputo for the next leg.

[Lennon]

Why should we play the B squad? This is the final against our biggest rival FFS.
We've played the fewest games of any team in the league and there will be a nice long break for everyone in a couple of weeks. Start the best 11.

[levyashin]

The biggest concern for this team is and always has been MIDFIELD.
Caldwell got his red card for tackling someone at almost mid field!.
That was not his to make .
It was Bekker/ Rey /Orr/New guy that should have been in that position.
All night long from the get go we let Feilhaber run the show.
Nobody tackled him /nobody kicked him/
The midfield was like a concrete block.
Nelson has to find the right personel that will not retreat but dish out some punishment.
Then how about pass the ball so that the forwards are actually going FORWARD towards the goal.
Please Mr Nelson put out a team that will go forward .:hump:
One other thing (among many)TEACH,SHOW,EXPLAIN to the players how to play.
THAT IS YOUR JOB!!!!!. RANT OF THE DAY OVER.

[ManUtd4ever]

We'll score first, park the bus, and hang on for a 1-0 win.

[QBall]

This should be a formality quite frankly. Montreal barely got by Edmonton, which isn't even an MLS team. They're coning off a 4-1 loss to Colorado while we fought from behind twice to come out with a 2-2 tie with the top team in the league. Not only am I predicting a large TFC victory but I am going on record in predicting Gilberto is going to score his first goal. My bones are giving me a good tingle on that one.

[ryan]

This should be a formality quite frankly. Montreal barely got by Edmonton, which isn't even an MLS team. They're coning off a 4-1 loss to Colorado while we fought from behind twice to come out with a 2-2 tie with the top team in the league. Not only am I predicting a large TFC victory but I am going on record in predicting Gilberto is going to score his first goal. My bones are giving me a good tingle on that one.

That's simply just how the human mind works. Our minds don't comprehend the same consistent result in a 50/50 scenario (scoring/not scoring)

But hey, here's hoping!

[pdogg]

Not only am I predicting a large TFC victory but I am going on record in predicting Gilberto is going to score his first goal. My bones are giving me a good tingle on that one.

Eventually someone will be right with this...

[toronto toronto]

Are we Marching before the game?

[Couchy81]

Eventually someone will be right with this...

Let's hope...

[Cas87]

Eventually someone will be right with this...

"Against ___(insert team here)_____, Gilberto will score his first goal."

Just to make it easier for threads in the future

[notthesun]

I think we should field a slightly weakened lineup for this game given the upcoming schedule. We have this game, then Columbus at home on the weekend, then the 2nd leg, and finally San Jose at home. That game against Columbus can be huge for us. They're 3 points ahead of us, occupying the last playoff spot in the East. We have 3 games in hand already, and if we get a win against them it puts some serious distance between us. Very likely we'll be battling Columbus for the 4th or 5th spot come the end of the year so a home game against them is crucial.

With Montreal free falling I think we can get away with a bit of a softer lineup. Start Defoe on the bench. Maybe play Morgan. Caldwell will play since he's suspended in the league, and with that in mind I would start Henry. Hagglund has been performing so I'm sure he'll be fine if he gets a game off. Henry needs to get his confidence back, we'll need him against Columbus.

Hit Montreal with both barrels in the 2nd leg. San Jose is an easier home match up than Columbus, in theory.

[Suds]

Why should we play the B squad? This is the final against our biggest rival FFS.
We've played the fewest games of any team in the league and there will be a nice long break for everyone in a couple of weeks. Start the best 11.

Not sure about fielding the best 11, but we should field a strong team. You're correct in that our team needs more games together. And we should always want to beat Montreal and they should always want to beat us - period!

We're nowhere near playing well consistently enough to decided when and when not to field teams to win. These guys are still learning to play and win as a team. We need starters on the field to do that. Starters can kick back in a couple weeks with the rest of us watching the WC.

[Cas87]

I think we should field a slightly weakened lineup for this game given the upcoming schedule. We have this game, then Columbus at home on the weekend, then the 2nd leg, and finally San Jose at home. That game against Columbus can be huge for us. They're 3 points ahead of us, occupying the last playoff spot in the East. We have 3 games in hand already, and if we get a win against them it puts some serious distance between us. Very likely we'll be battling Columbus for the 4th or 5th spot come the end of the year so a home game against them is crucial.

With Montreal free falling I think we can get away with a bit of a softer lineup. Start Defoe on the bench. Maybe play Morgan. Caldwell will play since he's suspended in the league, and with that in mind I would start Henry. Hagglund has been performing so I'm sure he'll be fine if he gets a game off. Henry needs to get his confidence back, we'll need him against Columbus.

Hit Montreal with both barrels in the 2nd leg. San Jose is an easier home match up than Columbus, in theory.


Not sure about fielding the best 11, but we should field a strong team. You're correct in that our team needs more games together. And we should always want to beat Montreal and they should always want to beat us - period!

We're nowhere near playing well consistently enough to decided when and when not to field teams to win. These guys are still learning to play and win as a team. We need starters on the field to do that. Starters can kick back in a couple weeks with the rest of us watching the WC.


I see a front of Gilberto and Luke Moore.
Midfield with DeRo, Bekker (since he played so little and can be sub against ShitBus by Warner), Rey and Lovitz
Backfield of Morgan (who played well against Vancouver), Caldwell (since he has nothing to do on Saturday), Orr and Bloom
and of course the Legend Joe Bendik in net.

Not the strongest but the best we can do while still having players rested for Saturday (Defoe, Warner, Orr, Hagglund) that can be inserted in the 11 and make the team better for Saturday (rest isn't too much of a concern this week as its two game at home, next week with away in MTL then back to BMO for SJ).

[Derko]

Go for the throat, and a clean sheet for Bendik, don't let that jerk Saputo, have any glory, the way he acted at the home leg at Montreal with Edmonton, and that penalty call in extra time was a classic example of Match Fixing, ala The Fix.

Go into the match hard and fast, and the supporters have to be rowdy, loud and a bit psycho, there should be no excuses. No Surrender and No Quarter for this match.

Fuck being nice, be pricks.

:flare:

[Canary10]

I think Defoe may actually play. He didn't play in Vancouver because of the gawdawful turf.

[Walms]

Why all this talk of B squad or and easy win... dose everyone already forget 6-0 last year in the return leg back in Montreal?

I say we start our strongest 11 & punish these Impact f*@#ers into the ground... I want 7-0 leaving BMO on wed night! :scarf:

[Ultra & Proud]

I say we start our strongest 11 & punish these Impact f*@#ers into the ground... I want 7-0 leaving BMO on wed night! :scarf:
The Impact are very shit. That is true however we are TFC and we don't make things easy. We could play a college team and coast 1-0 for most of the match. I expect the same on Wednesday. Lots of chances, some decent build up, and a nervy second half. As per our usual.

I say 2-1 TFC

[Joe Kool]

Why all this talk of B squad or and easy win... dose everyone already forget 6-0 last year in the return leg back in Montreal?

I say we start our strongest 11 & punish these Impact f*@#ers into the ground... I want 7-0 leaving BMO on wed night! :scarf:

Yes. I agree.

1) Don't underestimate any team....any team can come out with a stunner and thinking you have it won before the game starts is just never good.
2) There are no easy wins....usually.
3) Do whatever you can to win every game and don't rely on the second game or away goals.

In other words...win by as many goals as possible with the strongest team. Only one home game and this is the Cup final. If the boys are a little tired on Saturday so be it. They are professionals and should be able to handle the occasional Wednesday game. If they can't handle it we probably have another issue to worry about. Above all....it's Montreal....they need to lose.

[Abou Sky]

I think that it is funny that last year everyone was saying 'V-Cup doesn't matter, send out the academy'

I have to admit, I was partly of the same mind.

Then we didn't win the V-Cup...

It matters, it matters a LOT!

[Pint]

I think that it is funny that last year everyone was saying 'V-Cup doesn't matter, send out the academy'

I have to admit, I was partly of the same mind.

Then we didn't win the V-Cup...

It matters, it matters a LOT!

Yep... I really love CCL games and with the new format (American and Mexican teams being favoured) I would love to go in and knock out a few of them.

Give me a home game vs Cruz Azul or Santos Laguna or Toluca

[Abou Sky]

Yep... I really love CCL games and with the new format (American and Mexican teams being favoured) I would love to go in and knock out a few of them.

Give me a home game vs Cruz Azul or Santos Laguna or Toluca

How does the new format favor American/Mexican teams?

[Pint]

How does the new format favor American/Mexican teams?

If we win supports shield we don't make it to the CCL if we win the mls cup we don't make the CCL. Also as far as I know no american team can be in a pool with a mexican side during the initial group stage.

Less opportunity to make the champions league and automatically a harder path to make it on.

[Greatest Ripoff]

How does the new format favor American/Mexican teams?

With the new three team groups, American and Mexican teams can't be drawn angainst each other and only one team advances out if the group. Groups are set up to have the best chance of American and Mexican teams as the only ones to advance to the knockout stages.

[Graeme]

Keeping Saturday's game in mind, here's my guess for a line-up:
--Bendik--
-Richter----Henry--Caldwell---Morgan
--Rey--Hall--Bekker---Lovitz
-----Gilberto (only if he isn't starting on Saturday)---Defoe (early sub)

Bench: DeRo (on for Defoe), Bloom, Weeds, Moore, Hagglund, Konopka

[Derko]

The Impact are very shit. That is true however we are TFC and we don't make things easy. We could play a college team and coast 1-0 for most of the match. I expect the same on Wednesday. Lots of chances, some decent build up, and a nervy second half. As per our usual.

I say 2-1 TFC

I just remember all of the talk how KC had no central defenders last Friday, and it was prime pickings for TFC, yet we really struggled, and were very lucky to scrape out a point, so no we go for the throat and score a bucket load of goals, besides it is my birthday on Wednesday and want have a great day!! :drinking:

[Yohan]

the game will play out similar to vs SKC with Mtl dominating possession, except Mtl is less organized and TFC will exploit on the counter

[molenshtain]

Why would montreal dominate possesion? their midfield is shit too.

[Yohan]

Why would montreal dominate possesion? their midfield is shit too.
it doesn't mean they'll do anything good with it :P

but Bernier, Felipe and Bernadello can pass the ball around. they lack pace though. And Justin Mapp is quietly having a career year

[molenshtain]

Just a quick question about tomorrow. How easy would it be to get down to 112 or 113 before the game if I don't have tickets for those sections? And if that's doable, how fluid is the the standing? I mean do newcomers just got to the top? do I stand anywhere?

Thanks in advance.

[Super]

Just a quick question about tomorrow. How easy would it be to get down to 112 or 113 before the game if I don't have tickets for those sections? And if that's doable, how fluid is the the standing? I mean do newcomers just got to the top? do I stand anywhere?

Thanks in advance.

There's been space in 112 at every game. Kinda filled in a lot this season, but mainly with tourists who buy from the scalpers. Just go to the section, head to the top (above row 15'ish) and find a spot. Lots of space. People move around a lot within 112 anyway. No problem at all!

[Yohan]

it's time to get pumped up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeYSPsKe5A

[ryan]

the game will play out similar to vs SKC with Mtl dominating possession, except Mtl is less organized and TFC will exploit on the counter

Agreed. I think their gameplan will want to keep possession and the tempo slow. Keep us to 1 or 2 at worst, then push for a late away goal.

Our best bet is to get on them early, force them to open up. If we can (magically) get 2 in the first half, it could be a wild one. I think that works in our favor too.

[molenshtain]

....

[jabbronies]

I saw members of the Limp'Act at their hotel yesterday.
Told them they were going to lose tonight and had no chance of winning the championship this year. Some of them didn't seem to impressed with that. a couple others just laughed it off. Bunch of fucking amatuers lol

I also Issey Nakajima-Farran - He was pretty cool. Thanked him for his time here. Wished him good luck in the future. Told him his new team sucked and would not win tonight. He just laughed it off. Was appreciative of the other statements though.

That is all

[ryan]

Truer words have not been spoken.

[Canary10]

I saw members of the Limp'Act at their hotel yesterday.
Told them they were going to lose tonight and had no chance of winning the championship this year. Some of them didn't seem to impressed with that. a couple others just laughed it off. Bunch of fucking amatuers lol

I also Issey Nakajima-Farran - He was pretty cool. Thanked him for his time here. Wished him good luck in the future. Told him his new team sucked and would not win tonight. He just laughed it off. Was appreciative of the other statements though.

That is all

Ha ha. Awesome.

[Canary10]

I hope Nelsen takes the shackles off a bit and let the guys play tonight. It would be nice to see some creativity for once.

[RealG-TFC]

it's time to get pumped up

Wow I forgot what a team that was. Serioux, DeRo, Dichio, Guevara...

[trane]

it's time to get pumped up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeYSPsKe5A

Every time I see a clip of him play, I think we could always use a true target man, like Dichio, he was something else. Still sad that he did not get to play more due to injury. Always in a good position, made great little flicks and passes, would get to the end of most crosses, and could bomb it to the back of the net, always fighting and making space in the back line. Love that bold brit wop.

[Ultra & Proud]

Wow I forgot what a team that was. Serioux, DeRo, Dichio, Guevara...
The Serioux jersey is in effect tonight.

As for the match; I still expect it close but Montreal's back line is bad. Like ours during the Winter era. Still think we will give up an away goal and I still think we'll squander multiple chances. I say 2-1 to keep it interesting going to cheese stadium.

[BuSaPuNk]

it's time to get pumped up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeYSPsKe5A

One of my best memories. Going on that trip, thinking were just going to try and win the game, there was no chance. And what happened was just well what it is the Miracle in Montreal.

[Joe Kool]

OK is it time yet? If I show up will they let me in to my seat? Might as well head down since I can't concentrate on work anyway...LOL. Let's kick some Impact ass!!!

[prizby]

Montreal 'ultras' are not travelling in big numbers

"Given the lack of interest in a moving bus, next Wednesday we will visit our neighbours in van or car. For those who would like to join us, please send an email to um02ontour@gmail.com specifying if you have a driving licence and your neighborhood. As much as possible we will match people according to their neighborhoods and try to ensure a share of the steering wheel. Note that we are going to prioritize those who had expressed an interest to bus travel."

[ManUtd4ever]

Not surprised at the lack of interest. Montreal has been beyond shite this season.

[Phil]

Not surprised at the lack of interest. Montreal has been beyond shite this season.

Factor in that its a Wednesday game too.

[daner90]

Not surprised at the lack of interest. Montreal has been beyond shite this season.

To be fair, the away support will be low in Montreal next week as well. I think a big factor, unlike in the past, is the short turnaround time between advancing to the finals and the next games being played.

I will be at both legs and can't wait. Always loved Voyageurs Cup time!!!

[Abou Sky]

Montreal 'ultras' are not travelling in big numbers

"Given the lack of interest in a moving bus, next Wednesday we will visit our neighbours in van or car. For those who would like to join us, please send an email to um02ontour@gmail.com specifying if you have a driving licence and your neighborhood. As much as possible we will match people according to their neighborhoods and try to ensure a share of the steering wheel. Note that we are going to prioritize those who had expressed an interest to bus travel."

There are no ultras in North America

TBH, I like it that way...

[OgtheDim]

Is there a radio feed for this game?

[Yohan]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/live/canadian-championship

Free stream for out of Canada folks

[mitchf]

I hope Nelsen takes the shackles off a bit and let the guys play tonight. It would be nice to see some creativity for once.
Lol, this is awesome. You think Nelsen is holding this team back from being creative?? How about our team minus a 2 or 3 individuals has absolutely zero creativity?

Nelsen is making us play the counter, but he's certainly not disallowing us to play fun offensive soccer.

[SirBobSaget]

Is it really bernadello at fb and ouimette fw? Or the announcer out of it?

[SirBobSaget]

Why hold back both Defoe and Moore? Think Orr is only one playing that has a goal this season. Impact are going for it. Don't like the lineup

[OgtheDim]

Anybody know a way to watch this game on Android? The flash download isn't doing the job off of wiziwig.

[pdubs]

Why hold back both Defoe and Moore? Think Orr is only one playing that has a goal this season. Impact are going for it. Don't like the lineup

think moore has a groin pull. maybe resting defoe for sat? if we need a goal hope he puts defoe in and not weeds.

[ag futbol]

Lol, this is awesome. You think Nelsen is holding this team back from being creative?? How about our team minus a 2 or 3 individuals has absolutely zero creativity?

Nelsen is making us play the counter, but he's certainly not disallowing us to play fun offensive soccer.
I don't know what you're expecting, but for an MLS team we have quite a bit to work with going forward, everything but an AM which we intentionally don't use.

[Couchy81]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/live/canadian-championship

Free stream for out of Canada folks


TY sir, this feed is in BEAUTIFUL HD. I'm down in the U.S. right now.



If you can't find a good quality stream anywhere else i'd recommend using a proxy to get this one going.

[SirBobSaget]

So canadian champ is drawn in group with red bulls. Path to the quarters couldn't be easier.

[ryan]

Started yet? I'm still in transit. I literally could have walked from Eglinton faster. I've actually done it.

[Lennon]

Great. No Defoe for us and Montreal starting like their #1 squad.

[Richard]

Morgan and Henry starting, oh boy.


Stream if anyone needs its:
http://gofirstrow.eu/watch/262716/1/watch-toronto-fc-vs-montreal-impact.html

[notthesun]

Unless I'm mistaken Nelsen isn't holding Moore out, he has a strain.

[Yohan]

lmao. Rivas injured again after 2 mins

[pdubs]

rivas lasted 2 mins? why do they keep trying to get him back lol. every time all the time

[AlanO]

Earliest sub ever?

[SirBobSaget]

Too bad for Rivas guess that's a career

[Jeffro]

I'm on a ferry right now so I'm counting on you fine folks to keep me posted on the action. Cheers!

[Yohan]

well, Gilberto has been good winning balls. haven't been able to do much otherwise

[pdubs]

gilberto with great defensive tackle/strip. needs a damn goal now

edit- more great effort by gilberto leads to another offensive run

[notthesun]

well, Gilberto has been good winning balls. haven't been able to do much otherwise

DeRo with a pretty useless run on Gilberto's last possession. He should've recognized he needed help and checked in instead of drifting wide.

[AlanO]

gilberto with great defensive tackle/strip. needs a damn goal now
He does so many things well, except scoring. Gawd.

[Yohan]

Hall and Orr in mid... it's not going to be pretty offensive wise

[Yohan]

that was a dumb tackle by Lovitz. he should have been booked for that late challenge

[notthesun]

Not sure I'm a fan of Lovitz and Rey switching flanks, Lovitz appears pretty dependent on his left foot, plus he can put in a nice cross with it. Not sure he'll be as effective on the right.

[Richard]

So Gilberto runs his as off to force the opposition GK to kick out of bounds, then we squander possession immediatly and send it back under minimal pressure. :facepalm:

[pdubs]

beauty header - lovitz to henry

[Yohan]

Perfect corner, perfect header by Henry

[AlanO]

Fuckin A

[Richard]

Nice header.

[notthesun]

Bit of redemption for Henry there, he'll be really happy to have gotten one. Great header.

Props to Lovitz on the corner. Kid's got a good left foot.

[PopePouri]

Beast header.

[Yohan]

that was somewhat naughty shove by Hall

[notthesun]

DeRo's old man legs are really limiting him. That was a great pass from Rey.

[pdubs]

DeRo's old man legs are really limiting him. That was a great pass from Rey.

i was gonna say dero a few years back would have made a better play on that

[notthesun]

i was gonna say dero a few years back would have made a better play on that

He'll never admit it but it must be frustrating for him. You can see he knows what to do; he took the inside step right away and appeared to have the edge. But after two or three steps he just gets caught. Shame we couldn't have gotten him back 2 years ago.

Let's get him a free kick on the edge of the box and see what he can do.

[pdubs]

looked like a penalty.

[Yohan]

stupid yellow from Rey

[Richard]

Not even close to a penalty.

[ag futbol]

Why not play Dero as an AM, get width from our wingers and have Gilberto play his preferred CF role. Slots all sorts of people in more natural positions.

[notthesun]

Probably not a penalty.

Dumb dumb dumb from Rey to push Camara but I share his pure hatred for players who gesture to the ref asking for cautions.

[Yohan]

Morgan really wants some first team mins. he's been solid so far

[notthesun]

Damn Morgan where has that been for like a year and a half? Nice run and cross.

[pdubs]

lovitz is solid. turning into a real good draft pick.

[Yohan]

that was a really slick pass by Orr to Hagglund. too bad nothing came out of it

[AlanO]

Considering the starting lineups, that was a pretty good half.

Credit to Orr and Hall, they've controlled the middle.

[Yohan]

TFC is outhustling Mtl, but lack of cohesion in midfield is killing the passing game. Hall and Orr both playing DM, though Hall has been pushing forward a lot. Ugh.

[defensor]

damn almost forgot about this game. just started watching. hopefully we destroy MTL they don't even deserve to be here.

[pdubs]

TFC is outhustling Mtl, but lack of cohesion in midfield is killing the passing game. Hall and Orr both playing DM, though Hall has been pushing forward a lot. Ugh.

Orr has that vision tho. needs to keep stretching the D, hopefully Gilberto can get on the end of one.

[brad]

Morgan and Henry starting, oh boy.


Stream if anyone needs its:
http://gofirstrow.eu/watch/262716/1/watch-toronto-fc-vs-montreal-impact.html

Can get a high quality stream.

Install tunnel bear free VPN. Start it up, load the stream from the MLS site, turn off tunnel bear.

High quality stream.

[jloome]

TFC is outhustling Mtl, but lack of cohesion in midfield is killing the passing game. Hall and Orr both playing DM, though Hall has been pushing forward a lot. Ugh.

Yeah, the overlap is a bit predictable. It's our only offensive move right now; no one's cutting inside and the strikers aren't pulling the guys in the wide, so even though we're the better team and hustling well, we should be creating more chances. Here's hoping they put it away with one or two in the second half. Montreal looks thoroughly unmotivated; can't expect Klopas to last the week the way this is going.

[jloome]

Orr has that vision tho. needs to keep stretching the D, hopefully Gilberto can get on the end of one.

Even though he's not that graceful, Orr's passing and hold-up technique are a step above; he should stay there, playing next to Bradley, as far as I'm concerned. In terms of feeding the front, they'd easily be the most dangerous pair we've had (with apologies and much respect to Robbo and Amado Guevara).

[SirBobSaget]

Given a relatively easy group stage draw and the long break coming up. Gotta get the best players into the game. Really nervous 1 goal not enough

[ag futbol]

Nobody will remember, but Henry certainly saved TFC a goal there on not an easy play for a central defender, covering his defensive partner who got flat footed by a through ball

[pdubs]

blast from dero. baaaaaah

[defensor]

omg gilberto and dero wow

[notthesun]

DeRo can still shoot, fuck me. Beautiful flick from Gilberto.

[AlanO]

DeRo forces a huge save from Bush. Wow

[SirBobSaget]

Nelsen happy with this? Make a damn sub!!!

[pdubs]

caldwell waves his hands too much in the box. mannnnn close

[notthesun]

Morgan's inexperience nearly cost us the win there. That's a one touch hoof it out kind of ball.

[pdubs]

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) 1m (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/471820711678709760)
Klopas just pushed the fourth official. Dude has lost it. #IMFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/IMFC?src=hash).
Expand (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/471820711678709760)

[notthesun]

Gilberto plz

[AlanO]

aaaahhhhh

[pdubs]

nelson put defoe on lets go

[notthesun]

Bad. Montreal's only chance of the game. Someone needs to close him down way quicker than that. Caldwell in no man's land.

[Yohan]

I don't think Nelsen cares about the V Cup. Bekker for Hall would not be the sub I'd be making at this point

[pdubs]

dero is out of gas

[SirBobSaget]

Keys save Defoe for the wc break

[Yohan]

now Morrow for Rey, pushing Morgan to LM. lulz

[PAOK17]

Sorry to say it, but until teams start their best players, this cup will always be Mikey Mouse. You call it a Cup Final, and you start your B team (does Hall qualify as a member of the B team?).

[gracos]

Is Defoe a DP bench player, not a smart move, and another thats not smart is only start substitutes on for last 15 minutes, about 30 minutes is what i would expect, we will have it very tough to win in MTL

[OgtheDim]

So you need a goal, and your aging forward is gassed.

Let's bring on a LB.

[notthesun]

About time Gilberto gets a call, jeez

[notthesun]

Damn it DeRo that was your chance. Let Lovitz take the next one

[gracos]

What is the results we need to achieve in order to win the tournament

[Yohan]

What is the results we need to achieve in order to win the tournament
if this leg ends 1-1, TFC either has to win, or a draw of 2-2 or better. 1-1 means extra time

[notthesun]

Silky smooth first touch from Lovitz

[OgtheDim]

What is the results we need to achieve in order to win the tournament

We want 2-1 or better. They score any more, and we are in serious trouble.

[pdubs]

damn gilberto getting into good positions.

[MightyDM]

I actually like Nelsens subs. Hall was gassed. We need Defoe on Saturday and its interesting to see Morgan at left mid - we need pace there. My worry is actually Caldwell. He had some responsibility for that goal and has been lucky the last couple of games not to have penalties called against him - by my count, three hand ball contacts in three games. Gilberto has looked very good tonight.

[ExiledRed]

Gilberto should stop trying to get a spectacular goal and just fucking tap one in or something.

It's enough now.

[ag futbol]

This isn't exactly looking like a tour de force

[ExiledRed]

damn gilberto getting into good positions.

It means squat if he cant get into a good enough position to get an errant ball into the fucking net.

[pdubs]

It means squat if he cant get into a good enough position to get an errant ball into the fucking net.

disagree. If he wasn't getting into the positions then there would be a massive issue at hand. Gilberto does many things right needs to bag a goal and get confidence. Don't think we can look at this as a black and white issue…

[gracos]

poor result, I thought Montreal was a weaker MLS team, but seemed like TFC just dont care about advancing in the Concacaf Championship

[notthesun]

Well, we were the better team but we messed up for 30 seconds and it was while Montreal's best player had the ball.

Defoe will probably start the second leg. Hagglund, Lovitz, Orr & Gilberto all played well today. Even Morgan had his moments. On the negative side, Bendik's distribution was even worse than usual.

[Couchy81]

Bendik's distribution was even worse than usual.

Long ball isn't distribution it's a joke. It's like a jump-ball in basketball. Even if we win 50% of the balls in play, there is still a % that goes out of bounds. Why does Nelsen insist on long ball?

It's even funnier when Defoe is the target. What is he 5'5?

[ExiledRed]

disagree. If he wasn't getting into the positions then there would be a massive issue at hand. Gilberto does many things right needs to bag a goal and get confidence. Don't think we can look at this as a black and white issue…

This is old.

Scoring after a ten game duck didn't suddenly solve Chad Barrett's or Pablo Vitti's 'confidence' issues.

Gilberto's not a striker. Striker's finish.

I would put him in midfield, he's not a crap player, just a poor striker.

[PopePouri]

Hall's lack of positioning cost the goal to stop Mapp from running at the back 4. When Orr stepped, he should have dropped and he didn't. He did that many times against RSL.

[PAOK17]

On the negative side, Bendik's distribution was even worse than usual.
I think that's what typically distinguishes the elite keepers with the mediocre ones. All keepers are athletic and capable to dive at a ball. The really good keepers know how to play crosses and how to distribute the ball well. We saw that with Cesar. We won't see it with Bendick.

[OgtheDim]

You don't leave your best player on the bench for two matches without a hint from the boss as to the importance of the competition.

They'll take cup success, but only while preserving the team for the league.

Shame because the path to the quarters of the CCL is never going to be this easy.

[ExiledRed]

What the fuck use would an air pilot be if he could take off and fly extremely well, but couldnt land a plane?

[gracos]

In the UEFA Champions League, do you place your reserves or best 11, i feel we should be doing the same, we need to win now or else we have it even tougher, MTL had an early substitute and we had poor substitutions, shouldnt we have subbed out Dero for even Weideman to allow a new set of fresh legs

[cochrdoc]

Another uninspiring game.We play a very boring game.We do not create very many good chances and give up a goal late.What are the excuses going to be this time.Rey is useless

[PAOK17]

Also if this tournament is such an inconvenience to teams, maybe we should save the scheduling during the season and have the games played in preseason in Orlando. Or make it a development tournament for player under 23. I know we want to save players for the weekend match, but there is a break coming up and we've played the fewest games in the league. It's disrespectful to the fans when they speak about the cup as being important and then don't put in their best lineup.

I know I'm being harsh, and I LOVE this tournament. I just wished the teams did too.

[ag futbol]

Long ball isn't distribution it's a joke. It's like a jump-ball in basketball. Even if we win 50% of the balls in play, there is still a % that goes out of bounds. Why does Nelsen insist on long ball?

It's even funnier when Defoe is the target. What is he 5'5?
Agreed it's odd, but even odder when the goal keeper needs to stare down his target and generally doesn't hit the pass accurately. The small odds just get smaller.

[ExiledRed]

You don't leave your best player on the bench for two matches without a hint from the boss as to the importance of the competition.

They'll take cup success, but only while preserving the team for the league.

Shame because the path to the quarters of the CCL is never going to be this easy.

Not taking this competition seriously, is coach death for me.

[TorontoGooner]

This is old.

Scoring after a ten game duck didn't suddenly solve Chad Barrett's or Pablo Vitti's 'confidence' issues.

Gilberto's not a striker. Striker's finish.

I would put him in midfield, he's not a crap player, just a poor striker.

He's a striker. He's also a very good player. We need patience with him. Let's not be so rash with him

[ExiledRed]

He's a striker. He's also a very good player. We need patience with him. Let's not be so rash with him

Dude, if he had a strikers instinct he would have scored a minimum of six by now.

He doesn't have it and he's too old to acquire it. He is a sophisticated player, and needs a more sophisticated role.

[ag futbol]

Another uninspiring game.We play a very boring game.We do not create very many good chances and give up a goal late.What are the excuses going to be this time.Rey is useless
I picked up the game in the second half. I thought Rey was fairly decent. This team is going to continue to struggle until we figure out some basics of attacking.

As usual we bank our forwards hard against the backline, play nobody in the hole and nobody is making the late run to hit that space. We work the channels and continue to try to get the ball to the box from there. Our game plan consists of the same thing every time out and our adjustments are more or less limited to swapping wingers. Teams must love prepping for TFC because we have to be the most predictable team in the league.

[MightyDM]

Another uninspiring game.We play a very boring game.We do not create very many good chances and give up a goal late.What are the excuses going to be this time.Rey is useless

If you look at the team, there are weaknesses in midfield, and a lack of coordination. I am optimistic that this will come good as we develop a more settled midfield, starting with Orr/Warner and Bradley, but to me that is the bigger issue than tactics. We can't control possession becasue there isn't enough quality and coordination there, which undermines our potential up front and our relatively solid defence.

[OgtheDim]

On another note, that sub out of Rey for a defender, with us really needing an offensive spark, kinda puts another strong hint out there that Rey is gone soon. An int spot winger who never makes it past 65 minutes, doesn't cross all that well and doesn't pass enough is not a good use of salary cap and that int spot.

[Richard]

Dude, if he had a strikers instinct he would have scored a minimum of six by now.

He doesn't have it and he's too old to acquire it. He is a sophisticated player, and needs a more sophisticated role.

Nelsen wont change his formation, and its going to be sad if he is run out of town and tears it up elsewhere. I agree that he needs a different role for the time being, and AM or CF role at the very least.

[pdubs]

This is old.

Scoring after a ten game duck didn't suddenly solve Chad Barrett's or Pablo Vitti's 'confidence' issues.

Gilberto's not a striker. Striker's finish.

I would put him in midfield, he's not a crap player, just a poor striker.

gottcha. hasn't netted in 8 MLS games and 2 Canadian championship games so write him off as a striker completely lol. Gone. Done. He is garbage. When if we look at his history he has netted in a good amount in Brazil.

I don't think people are arguing he is living up to his DP tag. But 10 games (where he has been good in many respects) isn't enough. I am curious to see him in July where he will be playing in a climate that is similar to his (don't know how much this truly matters be hey whatever).

Also many foreign DP strikers have notoriously slow starts to their careers in MLS. Should we have wrote them all off and put them in the midfield?

Idk I will stay positive.

[ExiledRed]

This team is going to continue to struggle until we figure out some basics of attacking.


Which will likely be when we get a real coach, eliminate the locker room politics, get rid of the backstabbing culture at all stages of management and stop experimenting with new concepts over the tried and true.

[Richard]

gottcha. hasn't netted in 8 MLS games and 2 Canadian championship games so write him off as a striker completely lol. Gone. Done. He is garbage. When if we look at his history he has netted in a good amount in Brazil.

I don't think people are arguing he is living up to his DP tag. But 10 games (where he has been good in many respects) isn't enough. I am curious to see him in July where he will be playing in a climate that is similar to his (don't know how much this truly matters be hey whatever).

Also many foreign DP strikers have notoriously slow starts to their careers in MLS. Should we have wrote them all off and put them in the midfield?

Idk I will stay positive.

For me right now the midfield is a giant weakness on the team. Gilberto isn't scoring but with his set of tools could easily bolster the attack if he was played in an attacking midfielder position.

[ManUtd4ever]

When I saw the starting lineup, my expectations were tempered. It was a sloppy display by both clubs tonight, with very few genuine chances generate for either side.

I felt bad for DeRo. That's the second time he has hit the post in this tournament. It would have been nice to see him break the goose egg at home.

[ExiledRed]

gottcha. hasn't netted in 8 MLS games and 2 Canadian championship games so write him off as a striker completely lol. Gone. Done. He is garbage. When if we look at his history he has netted in a good amount in Brazil.

I don't think people are arguing he is living up to his DP tag. But 10 games (where he has been good in many respects) isn't enough. I am curious to see him in July where he will be playing in a climate that is similar to his (don't know how much this truly matters be hey whatever).

Also many foreign DP strikers have notoriously slow starts to their careers in MLS. Should we have wrote them all off and put them in the midfield?

Idk I will stay positive.

Its not just that he hasnt netted. He has squandered his chances and some have been sitters. I am alarmed.

Getting into position is only half the job. If I get a job I am already trained in and after ten weeks I can only do 50% of whats expected of me, they either find me a different role or fire me. Business is business.

[ag futbol]

Nelsen wont change his formation, and its going to be sad if he is run out of town and tears it up elsewhere. I agree that he needs a different role for the time being, and AM or CF role at the very least.
This absolutely drove me nuts today. We have one guy who is a natural CF and another who is too slow to play as a secondary striker but would make a decent AM. Behind them you have two defensively inclined midfielders, neither of which has an offensive skill-set to speak of. If that doesn't scream 4-2-3-1 than I don't know what was. Better division of labor, better use of players in preferred spots.

[pdubs]

For me right now the midfield is a giant weakness on the team. Gilberto isn't scoring but with his set of tools could easily bolster the attack if he was played in an attacking midfielder position.

or even in a 4-3-3 on the wing (where he has played in Brazil) may do him some good. would be nice to see a formation like that. Certainly with Bradley, Orr and Warner in the midfield I bet we could get creative up top. Gilberto/Moore/Defoe (and Dike if/when healthy)

[T-boy]

That was a typical first let cup tie, can't complain too much. TFC had all the best chances, but like normal can't convert. DeRo had some good quality tonight, didn't look over the hill as some have suggested. Rey was disappointing or me, he really doesn't create much at all, and deserved the substitution. Lovitz at least tries to take on a defender, he's still the best wide player we currently have from what I've seen.

The second leg will be more interesting, both teams need to score. TFC may just edge it if Montreal try and throw people forward.

[MightyDM]

Which will likely be when we get a real coach, eliminate the locker room politics, get rid of the backstabbing culture at all stages of management and stop experimenting with new concepts over the tried and true.

Hilarious! Nelsen is tried and true to the core. There are hundreds of posts criticizing him for that. We have completely new management and no whispers out of the locker room. How far away are you in exile? It sounds like you are critiquing Mo, with a side order of Winter.

[ExiledRed]

Also many foreign DP strikers have notoriously slow starts to their careers in MLS. Should we have wrote them all off and put them in the midfield?


And an equal amount fizzle and end up somewhere like Peru.

Why do we always find ourselves, year after year, having this same discussion over another unknown quantity?

[ExiledRed]

Hilarious! Nelsen is tried and true to the core. There are hundreds of posts criticizing him for that. We have completely new management and no whispers out of the locker room. How far away are you in exile? It sounds like you are critiquing Mo, with a side order of Winter.

I am critiquing eight years.

[nonc]

On another note, that sub out of Rey for a defender, with us really needing an offensive spark, kinda puts another strong hint out there that Rey is gone soon. An int spot winger who never makes it past 65 minutes, doesn't cross all that well and doesn't pass enough is not a good use of salary cap and that int spot.

Rey was one of the only players on TFC tonight to play at a professional pace, and despite being on a caution Nelsen does typically pull him early, usually dubiously. My fear is that Nelsen's vision is to scrub up the wings with "two-way" players maybe even converted backs that can play his bunker-hoofball.

[gracos]

3 pts v Columbus or an impossible comeback position allowing us a Championship vs MTL, just doesnt make sense to me; isnt Defoe able to play in more than 1 game a week

[ManUtd4ever]

I picked up the game in the second half. I thought Rey was fairly decent. This team is going to continue to struggle until we figure out some basics of attacking.

As usual we bank our forwards hard against the backline, play nobody in the hole and nobody is making the late run to hit that space. We work the channels and continue to try to get the ball to the box from there. Our game plan consists of the same thing every time out and our adjustments are more or less limited to swapping wingers. Teams must love prepping for TFC because we have to be the most predictable team in the league.

This is it in a nutshell. Luckily, we've had Defoe and a few other players capitalize off the counter. Otherwise, our attack has been anemic for the most part.

[SirBobSaget]

Nelsen only makes subs as a reaction to an opposition goal. Never makes a first move to influence the game . It's 4-4-2 lump forward that's all. Oh and whine to 4th official 100% of the time

[ExiledRed]

By the way,

When I say 'tried and true' - I dont mean negative longball designed to help poor to mediocre teams eke out results against bigger ones.

[OgtheDim]

On another note, Hall in to start pretty much indicates to me that its Bekker and Warner starting in the midfield on Saturday. I'm expecting Hagglund and Orr in the middle of the defence.

[nonc]

Lol at Nelsen not starting Bekker, cynical to rely so heavily on Lovitz and DeRo not only in advanced positions but in the middle, to make something happen. Just silly home tactics to put a pure DM out of position Orr alongside pro scrub Hall, who is the most invisible/terrible central mid in the history of soccer. He barely ever touches the ball and when he does nothing good comes of it. People who say "well yeah he's one dimensional but he's a stopper" are DELUSIONAL. He is awful defensively, never challenging anything or anyone even in transition, he floats around like a fairy doing nothing. Just look at the Mapp goal! case closed. But of course TFC holds onto him for years. Of course.

[pdubs]

Its not just that he hasnt netted. He has squandered his chances and some have been sitters. I am alarmed.

Getting into position is only half the job. If I get a job I am already trained in and after ten weeks I can only do 50% of whats expected of me, they either find me a different role or fire me. Business is business.

Depends if you look at business or sports as a checklist and that regimented. It is too a simplistic view. In business how do you evaluate someone is only truly doing 50% of the work? Unless there job is truly that simple. Idk it is too black and white for me. I would say that at the end of the season if he hasn't netted/assisted in a DP like fashion (whatever mgmt deems acceptable on his 1+ million salary) then I agree let him move on. 10 games is too soon. It would be like writing off Dempsey last year when he only netted once?

I do like the suggestion for Nelson to move around the formations and try Gilberto at different areas like on the wing of a 4-3-3 for example.

[OgtheDim]

... Oh and whine to 4th official 100% of the time

ALL MLS Managers whine at the 4th official.

[pdubs]

And an equal amount fizzle and end up somewhere like Peru.

Why do we always find ourselves, year after year, having this same discussion over another unknown quantity?

because clubs always take chances on players. Even with a ton of scouting and even a great history, some players will fail. Especially younger type players (under 26). The point I am bringing up is that to say (after 10 games) Gilberto is complete garbage (move him to the midfield) is too premature after numerous discussions on many threads about the things Gilberto does right. He hasn't scored and that is an important point but he is a smart player and I think needs more time (full season) to judge him within the realm of MLS.

[ag futbol]

Depends if you look at business or sports as a checklist and that regimented. It is too a simplistic view. In business how do you evaluate someone is only truly doing 50% of the work? Unless there job is truly that simple. Idk it is too black and white for me. I would say that at the end of the season if he hasn't netted/assisted in a DP like fashion (whatever mgmt deems acceptable on his 1+ million salary) then I agree let him move on. 10 games is too soon. It would be like writing off Dempsey last year when he only netted once?

I do like the suggestion for Nelson to move around the formations and try Gilberto at different areas like on the wing of a 4-3-3 for example.
I thoroughly believe he'd be fine as the CF in a 4-3-3. That's where he was playing at Portuguesa when he started banging in the occasional goal. He has a good combination of speed / power to get the best of opposing CBs if you put them in a foot race. We simply never do that. He's asked to bang or pull out wide and that's about it.

But across the board the way we use our attacking players is universally awful. There is the odd game where Dero was trying to play hold up man, which makes no sense whatsoever. Management's willingness to be tactically flexible is non existent.

[pdubs]

Nelson did make some curious subs and decisions during the game. I remember last season "he didn't have the players" to play outside a flat 4-4-2. We have upgraded the roster but he seems locked into his very simple system.

[adam1001]

Nelson did make some curious subs and decisions during the game. I remember last season "he didn't have the players" to play outside a flat 4-4-2. We have upgraded the roster but he seems locked into his very simple system.
Rookie coach who has nothing else up his sleeve. Zero tactical vision.

[ExiledRed]

Depends if you look at business or sports as a checklist and that regimented. It is too a simplistic view. In business how do you evaluate someone is only truly doing 50% of the work? Unless there job is truly that simple. Idk it is too black and white for me. I would say that at the end of the season if he hasn't netted/assisted in a DP like fashion (whatever mgmt deems acceptable on his 1+ million salary) then I agree let him move on. 10 games is too soon. It would be like writing off Dempsey last year when he only netted once?

I do like the suggestion for Nelson to move around the formations and try Gilberto at different areas like on the wing of a 4-3-3 for example.

OK, say my job is to make sales. Thats similar to scoring goals.

You need to generate leads (read the game), get yourself into a selling position(self expanatory), maneuver around your prospects apprehensions (find a route around the other players) and then you need to close.(score a goal)

If you dont do this last bit, you are not doing your job, in fact you could be a liability, because if you are getting in front of warm prospects (open goal) and you are not selling the product (skying it) you have just lost a potential sale (goal) that took a lot of groundwork to create (team effort getting the ball into the area)

No salesman makes every sale, with cold prospects( a team parking the bus) the difficulty is understood, yet it is expected to be overcome. They are expected to do better with warm prospects (sitters).

You wont make sales unless you do the groundwork, but its not enough, you need that salesman's instinct and ruthlessness too.

Gilberto is not a salesman, he is a lead generator.

[ExiledRed]

because clubs always take chances on players. Even with a ton of scouting and even a great history, some players will fail. Especially younger type players (under 26). The point I am bringing up is that to say (after 10 games) Gilberto is complete garbage (move him to the midfield) is too premature after numerous discussions on many threads about the things Gilberto does right. He hasn't scored and that is an important point but he is a smart player and I think needs more time (full season) to judge him within the realm of MLS.

This is what I hate about this board.

Quote where I said Gilberto is complete garbage.

I'll let you off if you can find a quote that is even analagous to that.

'Sophisticated player' doesn't count.

[Yohan]

Nelsen doesn't care to make CCL. The 4 added games plus travel lessens his chance of making the playoffs. And he won't get fired for not winning the V Cup, but he will get fired for not making the playoffs. Can't blame his priorities, not that I like it.

[MightyDM]

I am critiquing eight years.

Come back from exile. Critique this year. Or be like Pookie, and criticise 2017! Mo, and the previous owner and management are gone.

[Pookie]

Bloody big deal is really more of the bloody same thing.

I just hope they don't blow up the core of what could be a good team in a couple of years.

Other observations:

- Caldwell lucky on 2 possible hand balls in the box. First half he defends with arms outstretched like a Christmas tree. Second half, well you all saw it. Could have easily gone against us.

- Gilberto makes a nice set up to DeRo who hit the woodwork. Would have been great to see success for both

- TFC plays a similar game... every game. Makes reviewing game tape real easy for opponents.

- Defoe not playing is encouraging. Having the balls not to trot out an injury risk and risk losing in front of your boss is a big deal. Now if you signed a younger DP... I bet he could play more than a game a week but I digress.

- TFC was the better team in the first half. Hagglund as left back worked ok.

- Morgan had a decent 1st half in defending.

- No major mistakes by Henry and a solid, solid header. Well done.

-18k plus in attendance? Um ok.

- Does Sportsnet really need to flash "Jays vs Tampa On Now" across the screen to draw any viewers still left away from the broadcast??

[Pookie]

Come back from exile. Critique this year. Or be like Pookie, and criticise 2017! Mo, and the previous owner and management are gone.

2017 is when I think they will be good.

[Lennon]

Making the playoffs doesn't win you anything. Resting your best players in a cup FINAL just so that they're a little bit fresher for ONE league game is fucking retarded.

[pdubs]

OK, say my job is to make sales. Thats similar to scoring goals.

You need to generate leads (read the game), get yourself into a selling position(self expanatory), maneuver around your prospects apprehensions (find a route around the other players) and then you need to close.(score a goal)

If you dont do this last bit, you are not doing your job, in fact you could be a liability, because if you are getting in front of warm prospects (open goal) and you are not selling the product (skying it) you have just lost a potential sale (goal) that took a lot of groundwork to create (team effort getting the ball into the area)

No salesman makes every sale, with cold prospects( a team parking the bus) the difficulty is understood, yet it is expected to be overcome. They are expected to do better with warm prospects (sitters).

You wont make sales unless you do the groundwork, but its not enough, you need that salesman's instinct and ruthlessness too.

Gilberto is not a salesman, he is a lead generator.

again I do not believe it is this straight forward.
-Gilberto doesn't speak english and is not used to the climate (not an excuse why he hasn't scored but in some way it contributes to it).
-Based on Gilberto's history he has played in a 4-3-3 and alone up top. Maybe he doesn't fit the system and maybe Nelson isn't getting enough out of him. (again not an excuse to why he hasn't scored but it is important to bring up)
-from onto of my head he has hit the post against DC, against DC forced Hamid (who is a good keeper) to make a great save and against vancouver in the championship game beat the defender and put a good chip at the keeper (the 17 who made a great save but maybe you don't count that as a good chance)
-if he would have netted those 3 in 10 games it would make the current situation easier. but would that tell the whole story? Nope I don't believe so

The sales example isn't too strong. How do you compare 10 professional soccer games to what 10 potential sales? How about the influence your team mates have on the match in relation to setting you up to score? Again I am repeating myself but we see this all the time from strikers all over the world who go on cold and hot streaks. The important point is that Giberto has showed he can score (make sales/whatever) in the past but when you factor in language/climate/MLS travel/history of players needing time to adapt to the league it can't be as simple as he hasn't scored so lets can him after only playing 23% of MLS games. After a 34 game season (again how would you relate a sale against an entire MLS season? 1 for 1 or something else?) if he hasn't lived up to his DP tag in what mgmt deems acceptable then I agree it is time to move him.

I will state again it is troubling he hasn't found the back of the net but I think the entirety has to be put into context. The "he hasn't scored so disregard the positives he has done" after 8 MLS games and 2 CDN championship games is surely harsh? If he was floundering out there, not trying to win balls and not doing defensive duty or anything positive then I would agree maybe something needs to be changed right now. But like I have stated, don't think this is the correct context at this current time in the season.

[pdubs]

This is what I hate about this board.

Quote where I said Gilberto is complete garbage.

I'll let you off if you can find a quote that is even analagous to that.

'Sophisticated player' doesn't count.

you said he is not a striker and should be moved to the midfield. I am sorry if I assumed that since you deem him not a striker he is therefore garbage/poor/shouldnt be there, at the striker position. correct me if I am wrong. Maybe I should have been clearer. If he is not a striker and we are paying him to be our DP striker suggestion he should not play that position implies he can't/should't play that position. (maybe garbage isn't correct, maybe poor?)

is this quote close enough? should have used poor instead of garbage my bad man.

This is old.

Scoring after a ten game duck didn't suddenly solve Chad Barrett's or Pablo Vitti's 'confidence' issues.

Gilberto's not a striker. Striker's finish.

I would put him in midfield, he's not a crap player, just a poor striker.

[CommradePolski]

The beard lives on! #beardsforgilberto

[adam1001]

Nelsen doesn't care to make CCL. The 4 added games plus travel lessens his chance of making the playoffs. And he won't get fired for not winning the V Cup, but he will get fired for not making the playoffs. Can't blame his priorities, not that I like it.
How are league games any different? We look just as clueless in those as we did today.

[ExiledRed]

you said he is not a striker and should be moved to the midfield. I am sorry if I assumed that since you deem him not a striker he is therefore garbage at the striker position. correct me if I am wrong. Maybe I should have been clearer. If he is not a striker and we are paying him to be our DP striker suggestion he should not play that position implies he can't/should't play that position. (maybe garbage isn't correct, maybe poor?)

First time, you just said 'garbage' implying I was being hateful.

Yes he has been garbage at striker, he has absolutely no finish and nothing suggests he wont continue this route. and plenty in our history to suggest a repeat of past mistakes.

We have to look at the facts, we are always hearing about the maybes and the could bes and the other players who were similar before they got good. But the facts are, he is impotent in front of goal, he's missed a ton of chances that my son could have scored, and he's a DP.

[pdubs]

First time, you just said 'garbage' implying I was being hateful.

Yes he has been garbage at striker, he has absolutely no finish and nothing suggests he wont continue this route. and plenty in our history to suggest a repeat of past mistakes.

We have to look at the facts, we are always hearing about the maybes and the could bes and the other players who were similar before they got good. But the facts are, he is impotent in front of goal, he's missed a ton of chances that my son could have scored, and he's a DP.

Ill remember this next time a Striker goes 8 leagues games and 2 domestic cup games without scoring to make a note to transfer him out asap. (or bench/change position/ect) Since he hasn't done anything positive at all with regards to the striker position. Putting the entirety of the situation since Gilberto got here into context I guess is indeed useless.

Serious question tho- you don't think management should give him the whole season to see if he can replicate his form from brazil Serie A last year? 14 goals in 24 games? Recent history in a good league on a bad team? So you would transfer him in the summer window?

also to bring the discussion back to this game.. If Nelson doesn't care about CCL why doesn't he use a game like this one to experiment with formations or maybe a non counter attacking game plan? Granted we did have higher possession this game then previous ones but I agree that the style has largely been the same game to game.

[boozilla]

DeRo should have retired after scoring the PK in Vancouver.
You could see it in his face after skying the late free kick.
Tough to see many more high notes in the future.

[nlsanand]

Why not play Dero as an AM, get width from our wingers and have Gilberto play his preferred CF role. Slots all sorts of people in more natural positions. Right now, I'm preferring Gilberto as a winger and DeRo upfront? BTW, should I assume Moore and Defoe upfront on Saturday?

[brad]

On another note, Hall in to start pretty much indicates to me that its Bekker and Warner starting in the midfield on Saturday. I'm expecting Hagglund and Orr in the middle of the defence.

Warner was cup tied and couldn't play. I think we will see Orr & Warner in midfield on Saturday. Orr is staking a claim to that role very quickly IMHO.

I think Hall starting tonight was about giving him minutes to get him back up to fitness post injury. It's clear that Nelsen doesn't rate this competition that highly (and to be fair to him - that is probably a directive from management)

[brad]

Nelsen doesn't care to make CCL. The 4 added games plus travel lessens his chance of making the playoffs. And he won't get fired for not winning the V Cup, but he will get fired for not making the playoffs. Can't blame his priorities, not that I like it.

I agree with this - but I also bet he is under direct instructions to focus on the league and not the cup as well. Lieweke also promised the playoffs, and will be well aware of the affect of the extra games as you mentioned.

[brad]

Making the playoffs doesn't win you anything. Resting your best players in a cup FINAL just so that they're a little bit fresher for ONE league game is fucking retarded.

Hey man - Saturday is a cup final as well - the Trillium cup is on the table :hump:

Seriously though - to the TFC fanbase as a whole, making the playoffs is more important that the Voyaguers Cup. That is what is being catered to here. TFC's "success" has been set to a low bar of making the playoffs.

[Blizzard]

Nelsen doesn't care to make CCL. The 4 added games plus travel lessens his chance of making the playoffs. And he won't get fired for not winning the V Cup, but he will get fired for not making the playoffs. Can't blame his priorities, not that I like it.

If we don't win next Wednesday, Nelsen should be fired! If we can't beat one of the worst teams in MLS in the Canadian Championship, he doesn't deserve to call himself the coach of TFC.

[JavierMartini]

How can anyone rate Dero up front? He has no legs. I love the guy to death but he cant run onto through balls, just dosent have the pace.

Some observations.......

First half was good. Rey almost pulled a Henry after the non pk call in the first half. Yes it was a clear penalty. Henry is a beast in the air.

Second half was trash, it was clear from the get go . We had no attack or midfield for that matter. Keeping Dero in was a mistake, he couldn't get onto balls in the first half all he had in the second was trying to get position and flopping due to lack of pace.

I'll echo the sentiment of Nelson of trying to make the playoffs over the v-cup to save his ass. However I'm tired of an inexperienced manager who cant get production at home. The second half defensive ball curl with one or two half counterattacks then 10 searching long direct balls really sucks. It really really sucks.

[ExiledRed]

Ill remember this next time a Striker goes 8 leagues games and 2 domestic cup games without scoring to make a note to transfer him out asap. (or bench/change position/ect) Since he hasn't done anything positive at all with regards to the striker position. Putting the entirety of the situation since Gilberto got here into context I guess is indeed useless.

Serious question tho- you don't think management should give him the whole season to see if he can replicate his form from Brazil Serie A last year? 14 goals in 24 games? Recent history in a good league on a bad team? So you would transfer him in the summer window?

also to bring the discussion back to this game.. If Nelson doesn't care about CCL why doesn't he use a game like this one to experiment with formations or maybe a non counter attacking game plan? Granted we did have higher possession this game then previous ones but I agree that the style has largely been the same game to game.

I'll admit I know fuckall about Brazil's serie A.

I do wonder why that is, considering I can probably name every Brazilian player on this years squad and the club outside of Brazil that they play on (or made their career at before returning to Brazil.)

I'd say, that if the change in style is so stark that he can no longer play the same game as he was playing there, the question is moot.

And again, you keep pulling shit out of thin air.

I said move him to midfield, (where I think he'd be a rock) "not transfer him out ASAP"

I wont continue conversation with you if you misrepresent or over exaggerate my words one more time. Argue the things I say, not things that you believe are an extrapolation of what I say.

[daner90]

very disappointed with the squad selection and tactics as well tonight.
Should of run our a-team out tonight and tried to rack up a lead heading on the road....

Still looking forward to heading to Montreal for the second leg next week and hope that Nelsen goes for it.

[TFCwestcan]

I am critiquing eight years.


What the heck does that mean, regarding this new management....

[pdubs]

I'll admit I know fuckall about Brazil's serie A.

I do wonder why that is, considering I can probably name every Brazilian player on this years squad and the club outside of Brazil that they play on (or made their career at before returning to Brazil.)

I'd say, that if the change in style is so stark that he can no longer play the same game as he was playing there, the question is moot.

And again, you keep pulling shit out of thin air.

I said move him to midfield, (where I think he'd be a rock) "not transfer him out ASAP"

I wont continue conversation with you if you misrepresent or over exaggerate my words one more time. Argue the things I say, not things that you believe are an extrapolation of what I say.

I am not misrepresenting anything. You have said he is not a striker and with no indication he will improve at the position. I am saying after 8 league games with 2 cup appearances that is unfair and premature. You have said he does not have the strikers instinct and is too old to acquire it. This is pretty much disregarding all his previous history as a professional and assuming that we have seen enough of him at his current position. I am saying he needs more time man, as a forward in this system.

When I said for example "transfer him out asap" I also said right afterwords (bench/change positions/ect) implying we our paying him to be our DP striker/forward. He has only ever played as a striker/CF/winger in a 4-3-3. This is not me "pulling shit out of thin air", I am responding to the general argument that he does not belong in the striker position. Putting him into the midfield where he has zero experience and where we do not even play a true attacking midfielder is also what I am responding too.

Idk, that is why I pointed out his recent success in Brazil.(5th leader scorer from memory last season) If I am exaggerating this please by all means correct me. The whole reason I am having this discussion is to try and bring more context and background to the Gilberto discussion on why he is struggling to score. Saying things like "I wont continue conversation with you if you misrepresent or over exaggerate my words one more time" is ???. and LOL.

Anyway I am done. I have stated my points and I guess it is derailing this cup game thread anyway. peace. We don't see eye to eye ill live with it..

[TFC07]

Nelsen once again cost us the game with his tactics and lack of subs when it was clear we needed some fresh legs out there. Montreal Impact is awful team that our "A" should run circles around them, but instead, we play like cowards (defensive game) once again. If we lose V-cup (again), then Nelsen better hope we make it to the playoffs and make a run to make up couple of extra home games lost not playing in CCL.

[pdubs]

very disappointed with the squad selection and tactics as well tonight.
Should of run our a-team out tonight and tried to rack up a lead heading on the road....

Still looking forward to heading to Montreal for the second leg next week and hope that Nelsen goes for it.

do you think he will put out a stronger team "i.e. Defoe" next week? I agree with the general statements within this thread that he doesn't seem to value these cup games at all. I guess I cannot blame him when he is being measured on if he makes the playoffs in league play. Frustrating for sure. As a fan even if he doesn't start the "A team" I wish he would have brought Defoe out tn for 15-20 minutes or even roll out a different formation/system to experiment with.

[Cashcleaner]

Way to play like there's a championship on the line, TFC. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, we couldn't blank them at home, tonight? The offensive juggernaut of Mapp and Bernier was just too much for our D to handle, eh? And Nelsen, why not throw Defoe in the game for a bit in the second half? You know, maybe see if we could generate some new options offensively? Doesn't have to be for too long, either.

Also, TFC - why don't you ever post the Starting IX on your recap page? The Impact have all that info on theirs. :(

[Hamilton_Red]

Mapp was the best player on the pitch tonight- by a fair shot. TFC looked awfull in the second half - really awfull. Rey needs to be shown the door... We need some decent wingers. We had nothing that looked as good as Romero on the wing. Our entire mid-field tonight was non-existent. Worst home performance if the season. Defoe should have come on at 60 minutes... We disrespected the tournament IMO. impact are a division rival..this result gives them some serious hope... Why do we never make it easy..put a team away?

[ExiledRed]

What the heck does that mean, regarding this new management....

You dont get it, Im talking about one thing despite the fact that you want to relate it to another.

I'm not someone who likes to pretend this is year one, like a lot of people seem to. Coaching does not define the club or its policies. 'This new management' is a product of and works within the club framework, which has been built over the last eight years.

In the post that was referred to, I was critiquing this team (that is TFC, the club team as a whole, not just the current squad) and the organization that runs it, over the last eight years. I was pointing out repetition of mistakes, the infrastructure that all our coaches have had to work within, and the underlying locker room culture that is hidden from the media and fans, and suggesting that unless it all changes wholesale, we'll keep getting the same results we always got.



This is not hard to understand, surely?

[reggie]

everybody is so moody on this site these days,we played mtl 1st team without a midfield,they had one shot on net,saying that we are not a fun team to watch,add to that try to watch that with Dobson and forrest doing the play by play,jeezzz.

[cincy]

Watching Rivas go off after one minute was gold.

[Oldtimer]

The weather was nice. There were a lot of entertaining flair plays by TFC. I quite enjoyed the game until Mtl scored.

I think that Nelsen tried to put out just a good enough team not to be embarassed, but does not value this competition and would actually prefer not to have to play in the CCL.

Why should he? It's clear that 95% of the fans only consider MLS success to count. Call it ignorance if you will, but that's how it is.

[ensco]

It's so easy to say "it doesn't matter, you have to go for it", but the combination of the importance of Defoe and Bradley, and the fact that this year neither got an offseason, makes this an uncomfortable topic this year.

What should we want?

How much more likely is it that Defoe and/or Bradley will sustain a serious injury if we are playing twice a week in the heat of July and August? If they can only play once a week, which games do you hold them out of....?

[MightyDM]

You are very clear on this, but it isn't a valid argument. There is a new owner, new president, new GM, new front office staff, new roster, no hint of locker room dissent ( did you see Morgan, who rarely plays, put his arm around O'Leary after the game? Or hear Henry say "the Manager plays you if you work hard in practice"?) Judge Nelsen on tactics, Liewike on DP's, Bez on other acquisitions but treating them as an extension of Mo isn't accurate or real. It's as entirely new an organization as you realistically could have. Move on!

You dont get it, Im talking about one thing despite the fact that you want to relate it to another.

I'm not someone who likes to pretend this is year one, like a lot of people seem to. Coaching does not define the club or its policies. 'This new management' is a product of and works within the club framework, which has been built over the last eight years.

In the post that was referred to, I was critiquing this team (that is TFC, the club team as a whole, not just the current squad) and the organization that runs it, over the last eight years. I was pointing out repetition of mistakes, the infrastructure that all our coaches have had to work within, and the underlying locker room culture that is hidden from the media and fans, and suggesting that unless it all changes wholesale, we'll keep getting the same results we always got.



This is not hard to understand, surely?

[MightyDM]

Yes. Not playing Defoe was the correct decision. His minutes have to be managed, even if he was younger they would have to be. The world cup break will actually help in his case.

It's so easy to say "it doesn't matter, you have to go for it", but the combination of the importance of Defoe and Bradley, and the fact that this year neither got an offseason, makes this an uncomfortable topic this year.

What should we want?

How much more likely is it that Defoe and/or Bradley will sustain a serious injury if we are playing twice a week in the heat of July and August? If they can only play once a week, which games do you hold them out of....?

[Pookie]

Why should it matter if Defoe is out?

There are multiple posts listing all the players brought in during the offseason and I am pretty sure that there was much rejoicing about all these upgrades.

More work still to be done?... say it ain't so.

I will say that the we didn't win because we didn't want to excuse is a refreshing new one.

[Pookie]

Yes. Not playing Defoe was the correct decision. His minutes have to be managed, even if he was younger they would have to be. The world cup break will actually help in his case.

You mean younger... Like Gilberto ?

[ensco]

We had a couple of flashes in the first half, but it wasn't a fun game to watch.

I would like a fun game to watch, please.

[MightyDM]

You mean younger... Like Gilberto ?

No, I mean because he has had a full EPL season and his body needs a break now.

[Section 117]

As stated by many OP I don't think they want to win this tournament... We don't have depth to compete in this tournament and in the league. The league is the priority and they are willing to sacrifice this for it. I am fine with that, because when we make the playoffs this year we have another full offseason to build depth and have a legitime bench to compete in both the league and champions league. Plus teh salary cap will be raised to do the new CBA and then we can be the first MLS team to win champions league :scarf::canada:

[Milanista]

next transfer window this team NEEEEDSSS to go after a pure AM..but again what did we expect in a game we have orr and hall in the midfield lol

[ryan]

Making the playoffs doesn't win you anything. Resting your best players in a cup FINAL just so that they're a little bit fresher for ONE league game is fucking retarded.

Especially when you're coming into a World Cup break. LOL. Gotta rest up for vacation.

[ryan]

The weather was nice. There were a lot of entertaining flair plays by TFC. I quite enjoyed the game until Mtl scored.

I think that Nelsen tried to put out just a good enough team not to be embarassed, but does not value this competition and would actually prefer not to have to play in the CCL.

Why should he? It's clear that 95% of the fans only consider MLS success to count. Call it ignorance if you will, but that's how it is.

How much did this club bank from the QF vs LA at the Skydome? Or the SF vs Santos? How many fans who showed up to those, or simply caught the buzz, came to matches afterwards?

Considering how the draw went, why the fuck shouldn't MLSE want us there? They don't like money all of a sudden? Maybe this is merely about saving TL's ego to do every little thing possible to make the MLS playoffs?

[ryan]

It's so easy to say "it doesn't matter, you have to go for it", but the combination of the importance of Defoe and Bradley, and the fact that this year neither got an offseason, makes this an uncomfortable topic this year.

What should we want?

How much more likely is it that Defoe and/or Bradley will sustain a serious injury if we are playing twice a week in the heat of July and August? If they can only play once a week, which games do you hold them out of....?

Even if FAS is no pushover, those two don't need to play that team. We're talking about 2 matches vs NY. That's not much to ask for.

You can bet your ass they'll be trotted out to play fucking Tottenham though.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Making the playoffs doesn't win you anything. Resting your best players in a cup FINAL just so that they're a little bit fresher for ONE league game is fucking retarded.

I agree with you. Our management does not. They would say making the playoffs wins you a job. That's what the majority of fans want more than a weirdo trophy to play teams that aren't even from Europe of South America, like, man.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1290449/picard-facepalm-o.gif

[Canary10]

We had a couple of flashes in the first half, but it wasn't a fun game to watch.

I would like a fun game to watch, please.

Really? I quite enjoyed watching that game. Maybe it was the crowd? Other than about a 5 minute spell after Montreal scored, we looked pretty decent too. If one of DeRo's crossbars had gone a few inches below....

[Ultra & Proud]

We had a couple of flashes in the first half, but it wasn't a fun game to watch.

I would like a fun game to watch, please.

Those don't happen with Petrescu. I complained about that all night. Just like his last match here and his others league wide. He is always heavy on the whistle and totally destroys any flow to his matches.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The weather was nice. There were a lot of entertaining flair plays by TFC. I quite enjoyed the game until Mtl scored.

I think that Nelsen tried to put out just a good enough team not to be embarassed, but does not value this competition and would actually prefer not to have to play in the CCL.

Why should he? It's clear that 95% of the fans only consider MLS success to count. Call it ignorance if you will, but that's how it is.

Will do, OT. Will do. :yesnod:

[ManUtd4ever]

I agree with this - but I also bet he is under direct instructions to focus on the league and not the cup as well. Lieweke also promised the playoffs, and will be well aware of the affect of the extra games as you mentioned.

I agree. If TFC wins this tournament, it will be thanks to our reserves. If we move on to the CCL, our B team will play most of the matches. In this particular season, I'm ok with that approach.

We really need to focus on the league fixtures. We've had success in the CCL before while being a league doormat, and our club was still considered a unanimous failure.

[Canary10]

Those don't happen with Petrescu. I complained about that all night. Just like his last match here and his others league wide. He is always heavy on the whistle and totally destroys any flow to his matches.

The reffing was definitely not great.

Funny, I once shared a cab with Petrescu. I was on my way to play in a tournament in Kitchener, and he and I both were at the central bus station trying to flag a cab to get to the pitch. We were both wearing football warm up stuff, and carrying big bags so we realized we were going to the same place and shared the cab. Didn't realize who he was until about half way there. That was probably about 5 years ago. Didn't like having him as a ref either.

[Davenport]

Winning is a habit. Unless he's not 100%, resting Defoe was ridiculous. He hardly played in the winter and he can't play more than one game a week ? Joke.

[starter]

...
I will say that the we didn't win because we didn't want to excuse is a refreshing new one.

If only Caldwell could accidentally get his hands on that [brilliant] Mapp kick, we would need no excuse. :-)
BTW, as unprofessional game from TO as it gets, in all aspects.

[reggie]

whats the point of playing defoe when we have no midfield to get him the ball.it looked like both coaches are trying to save there job last night.

[Davenport]

The point of playing Defoe is for him to score goals so we can win games. I was one of the mugs who paid good money to watch last night and I feel cheated.

[JavierMartini]

next transfer window this team NEEEEDSSS to go after a pure AM..but again what did we expect in a game we have orr and hall in the midfield lol

ORR has done great in the midfield. Did you not watch the NY game?. DE RO needed to start at AM , he does not have pace to be up top. The first half alone he couldn't get on 3 or 4 nice through balls.

[JavierMartini]

I agree. If TFC wins this tournament, it will be thanks to our reserves. If we move on to the CCL, our B team will play most of the matches. In this particular season, I'm ok with that approach.

We really need to focus on the league fixtures. We've had success in the CCL before while being a league doormat, and our club was still considered a unanimous failure.

If we had gone onto win in mexico instead of collapse things could be very different.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I agree. If TFC wins this tournament, it will be thanks to our reserves. If we move on to the CCL, our B team will play most of the matches. In this particular season, I'm ok with that approach.

We really need to focus on the league fixtures. We've had success in the CCL before while being a league doormat, and our club was still considered a unanimous failure.

You do realize for it to be unanimous it needs to be agreed upon by everyone? It's clearly not by some of the attitudes about CCL priority being displayed in here. I had no issue with doing better in the CCL than the league.

[Initial B]

AMs don't have much place in a flat 4-4-2. Unless Nelsen suddenly sees the light and goes with another formation, I wouldn't expect to see an AM arrive in the next transfer window.

But I don't think that Nelsen doesn't take the CCL seriously. I think he is trying to manage the man-minutes over the next two weeks so he can grind out results in both MLS and CCL. TFC tied the 1st leg without their top team and are in a good place going into the next leg. If Nelsen sits his best players next Wednesday, then I'll know he doesn't take it seriously. I think we'll see Defoe and Moore start against Columbus, but they will platoon on Wednesday with Gilberto playing the other striker. Bekker and Warner will probably start on Saturday and sub on Wednesday, and Osorio will play in Montreal if he's available.

[ManUtd4ever]

You do realize for it to be unanimous it needs to be agreed upon by everyone? It's clearly not by some of the attitudes about CCL priority being displayed in here. I had no issue with doing better in the CCL than the league.

I'm well aware of the definition of unanimous. I was referring to the perception of our previous clubs.

Are you suggesting that some supporters considered any of our previous clubs a success?

[ManUtd4ever]

If we had gone onto win in mexico instead of collapse things could be very different.

Maybe. But we started that season 0-9 in MLS. We went on to win the ACC again that season during our MLS record losing streak, and most supporters acknowledged what a joke it was at the time.

[Shway]

- Morgan had a decent 1st half in defending.

- No major mistakes by Henry and a solid, solid header. Well done.

Doneils goal was a SOLID header, and that saved his game.

I can't stress how much he needs to work on his distribution out the back. I don't have the opta stats, but I counted 8x in the first half that he kicked the ball either out of bounds or to the impact...and that was under no pressure. For me Hagglund is still the starting CB alongside Caldwell.

I feel sorry for Gilberto because he's definitely affected by the hoof ball where he just chasing down everything, and I'm sure he's not used to that where as Defoe is.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I was referring to the perception of our previous clubs.

Are you suggesting that some supporters considered any of our previous clubs a success?

Um success was the word you were using...


We've had success in the CCL before while being a league doormat, and our club was still considered a unanimous failure.

And I agree we had success. The ayes have it.

Let's not waste time rehashing the difference in opinion over priority to define a successful season. That field has been trod many times in our earlier years.

[Oldtimer]

If we had gone onto win in mexico instead of collapse things could be very different.

Win in Mexico? Not too likely, unfortunately.

The only team that ever looked to beat the Mexicans was RSL a few years ago, and quite honestly they were playing at a different level at that time. I remember the two games very well, RSL was playing amazing flowing football, the stuff that one always wishes for. I really wanted them to win, they deserved it and it would have been huge for MLS.

[OfficeGuy]

Doneils goal was a SOLID header, and that saved his game.

I can't stress how much he needs to work on his distribution out the back. I don't have the opta stats, but I counted 8x in the first half that he kicked the ball either out of bounds or to the impact...and that was under no pressure. For me Hagglund is still the starting CB alongside Caldwell.

I feel sorry for Gilberto because he's definitely affected by the hoof ball where he just chasing down everything, and I'm sure he's not used to that where as Defoe is.


Doneil's Header was a strong goal .... it shut me up for the smack I put out about him - but his distribution still needs work

Gilberto does have strong game and his movement is good - hoping for that goal for him soon

[Ultra & Proud]

Things I learned or were confirmed last night:

- Hagglund can't play FB. That was a side we could have exploited as there was a lot of space but he lacks the pace and eye to move into it. Throw ins not good either.
- Hall is of no use even on the bench. Playing him is like being down a man. I could jog around in a 20 yard area and pass off the simplest of balls to the wrong teammates just as poorly as he does and since he doesn't jump for aerial challenges then we are equal in terms of vertical leap.
- Rey is so so and that's all he probably will ever be. Crafty sometimes but not winning anything with outright speed. Runs into trouble a lot.
- Lovitz looks the part. Now he looks like he could be something. Maybe a late draft steal for us.
- Dero is forever a sub now. Was gassed in second half and had to stop to dish off the pass when his wing was wide open.
- Morgan looked better in the first half but went back to his poor tracking in the second. Probably could use a spell with the Hammerheads to bring his confidence up and get real minutes.
- The mind boggling poor calls from like likes of Toledo and Salazar aside, Petrescu is the worst ref in MLS. His idea of controlling a match is to make all matches dead ball contests. Either that or loves the sound of a whistle. His matches are always tedious and drab. He sucks the life right out of them with his inability to let the fringe calls pass.
- Montreal is shit. They will get hammered by the Revs this weekend and if we use some A-listers next Wednesday then they will fall to us too. They are going to have a TFC patented total shit year and Klopas will be fired shortly if he already hasn't been.

[PopePouri]

Things I learned or were confirmed last night:

- Hagglund can't play FB. That was a side we could have exploited as there was a lot of space but he lacks the pace and eye to move into it. Throw ins not good either.
- Hall is of no use even on the bench. Playing him is like being down a man. I could jog around in a 20 yard area and pass off the simplest of balls to the wrong teammates just as poorly as he does and since he doesn't jump for aerial challenges then we are equal in terms of vertical leap.
- Rey is so so and that's all he probably will ever be. Crafty sometimes but not winning anything with outright speed. Runs into trouble a lot.
- Lovitz looks the part. Now he looks like he could be something. Maybe a late draft steal for us.
- Dero is forever a sub now. Was gassed in second half and had to stop to dish off the pass when his wing was wide open.
- Morgan looked better in the first half but went back to his poor tracking in the second. Probably could use a spell with the Hammerheads to bring his confidence up and get real minutes.
- The mind boggling poor calls from like likes of Toledo and Salazar aside, Petrescu is the worst ref in MLS. His idea of controlling a match is to make all matches dead ball contests. Either that or loves the sound of a whistle. His matches are always tedious and drab. He sucks the life right out of them with his inability to let the fringe calls pass.
- Montreal is shit. They will get hammered by the Revs this weekend and if we use some A-listers next Wednesday then they will fall to us too. They are going to have a TFC patented total shit year and Klopas will be fired shortly if he already hasn't been.

Pretty much agree with everything here.

It was a very 2012-2013 performance with both Hall and Morgan at fault for the Mapp goal. Hall just gets lost in any position he plays and he failed to drop when Orr went high.

[MartinUtd]

Hall's lack of positioning cost the goal to stop Mapp from running at the back 4. When Orr stepped, he should have dropped and he didn't. He did that many times against RSL.

I watched that goal over and over again and no doubt Hall's missed tackle let Mapp stroll into 15 yard of free space. But what about Caldwell and Morgan? One of them needed to step up and challenge at the top of the box. Morgan started to break wide and cover the other Montreal player and Caldwell just kind of stood there as Mapp teed it up. I'm not much of a tactician but it seems like one of them should have closed him down sooner and failed.

It reminded me of that KC goal against NYRB the other day. Dovale just strolled in there and put it inside the far post without the slightest bit of pressure.

[PopePouri]

The thing is the goal wasn't in transition so how a 2 on 2 situation happened comes to down to loss of shape in midfield which should not have happened in the first place.

It's not uncommon but the issue is that a bit of quality like Mapp can exploit it.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kWgnxRkNJNg/U0Bw3_mN7tI/AAAAAAAAAu4/_HR3pDAzMUY/s1600/Chara.gif

[MartinUtd]

So it just came down to a midfield failure and the left side of the back line was caught flat footed?

[MartinUtd]

I'll say this though, Bekker is better than Hall. For all his faults, there is not a doubt in my mind that Bekker does everything except the final tackle better than Hall. He closes down faster, passes better, is positioned somewhat better, is in better physical shape and can take a decent free kick.

He still shouldn't start but Hall shouldn't even be on the team.

[brad]

Doneils goal was a SOLID header, and that saved his game.

I can't stress how much he needs to work on his distribution out the back. I don't have the opta stats, but I counted 8x in the first half that he kicked the ball either out of bounds or to the impact...and that was under no pressure. For me Hagglund is still the starting CB alongside Caldwell.

I feel sorry for Gilberto because he's definitely affected by the hoof ball where he just chasing down everything, and I'm sure he's not used to that where as Defoe is.

You can view player stats here:

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2014-05-28-toronto-fc-vs-montreal-impact/boxscore

7 unsuccessful passes and 14 successful in the first half.

Agree with your point btw - needs to improve there.