Impact of Major Signing on TFC - Sports Business Journal

[Detroit_TFC]

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/05/21/Franchises/TFC.aspx

Of note: things were bad, really bad before the player announcements.

[Canary10]

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/05/21/Franchises/TFC.aspx

Of note: things were bad, really bad before the player announcements.

Interesting.

[reggie]

really bad?? mlse spin doctors at work again,compared to who...Columbus,chi,ny,mtl.

[Detroit_TFC]

62% renewal rate, that is really bad. It is one thing to not have a ST base, it is another to have one and lose it.

[Phil]

Hmmm, I remember meeting Hopkinson in November.

[Pookie]

Was that a paid advertisement?

Ratings have been shit. As they have always been shit. Outside of a blip for the first home game. At one point this season, TFC drew 35,000 which was said to be on par with Lumberjack challenges.

[ManUtd4ever]

This should come as no surprise to those of us that have been following the team since day one. Tim Leiweke was basically asked to resurrect the franchise.

[Ultra & Proud]

Was that a paid advertisement?

Ratings have been shit. As they have always been shit. Outside of a blip for the first home game. At one point this season, TFC drew 35,000 which was said to be on par with Lumberjack challenges.
But less shit than before. A few matches had decent numbers besides the home opener and don't count our TSN 2 and Sportsnet One matches as the pubs I go to don't even have them. Having our matches on those channels will obviously skew the numbers.

[brad]

really bad?? mlse spin doctors at work again,compared to who...Columbus,chi,ny,mtl.

Read the article. Most interesting:


Before the signings, only 62% of the team’s season-ticket holders indicated that they intended to renew for ’14 -- a figure Hopkinson called “cataclysmic” and described as the lowest he had seen in his 22-year career as a sports exec.

and


Hopkinson said MLSE execs at the end of last season were considering whether they were “teetering on the brink of this franchise failing.

[reggie]

Read the article. Most interesting:



and

I did read it... the point is a lot of teams would love 10k season tickets a yr..add to that we stunk for 7 yrs,add to that one of highest ave ticket prices in the league,"brink of this franchise failing"maybe the odd winning team would help,who is this assclown..

[Pookie]

But less shit than before. A few matches had decent numbers besides the home opener and don't count our TSN 2 and Sportsnet One matches as the pubs I go to don't even have them. Having our matches on those channels will obviously skew the numbers.

If the TV networks own the team and choose to put them on SN One or TSN 2 that should tell you something right there.

The ratings have been discussed here: http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?35785-2014-TFC-TV-ratings/page3

When they were on the main networks, they had decent numbers for the first two and then dropped off the map (101k) on TSN for a game vs Colorado.

Curious as to what the NY game did on TSN last week… Ah good ol' google. Here is what they did thanks to Chris Zelkovich:

"Saturday afternoons are also reserved for the likes of Toronto FC, which continues to be one of least-watched teams in the country. The high-priced soccer team's game on Saturday afternoon was viewed by only 91,000 -- a recent trend that has to have those who control the money faucets at MLSE more than a little worried.
The team's games are exciting and there's a good rivalry growing with Vancouver and Montreal. The stadium is full. But the viewers just aren't showing up.".

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-schedule-does-cbc-191146373.html

[Canary10]

If the TV networks own the team and choose to put them on SN One or TSN 2 that should tell you something right there.

The ratings have been discussed here: http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?35785-2014-TFC-TV-ratings/page3

When they were on the main networks, they had decent numbers for the first two and then dropped off the map (101k) on TSN for a game vs Colorado.

Curious as to what the NY game did on TSN last week… Ah good ol' google. Here is what they did thanks to Chris Zelkovich:

"Saturday afternoons are also reserved for the likes of Toronto FC, which continues to be one of least-watched teams in the country. The high-priced soccer team's game on Saturday afternoon was viewed by only 91,000 -- a recent trend that has to have those who control the money faucets at MLSE more than a little worried.
The team's games are exciting and there's a good rivalry growing with Vancouver and Montreal. The stadium is full. But the viewers just aren't showing up.".

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-schedule-does-cbc-191146373.html




Weclome to soccer on television in Canada.

[Pookie]

^ agreed. Which is why I asked if the original article was a paid advertisement?

This:

"TFC has seen TV ratings on TSN jump by eight to ten times as much as last year, and its home opener this season was the most-watched MLS game ever in Canada."

… is not the complete reality. The "Least Watched Team in the Country" is what we have. The proclamation about ratings being up is from one or two data points.

91,000 is not eight to ten times as much as last year.

This was Toronto vs New York. On Saturday. No Leafs. No Raptors. Henry vs Defoe. TSN main network.

[Canary10]

^ agreed. Which is why I asked if the original article was a paid advertisement?

This:

"TFC has seen TV ratings on TSN jump by eight to ten times as much as last year, and its home opener this season was the most-watched MLS game ever in Canada."

… is from one or two data points. 91,000 is not eight to ten times as much as last year.

This was Toronto vs New York. On Saturday. No Leafs. No Raptors. Henry vs Defoe. TSN main network.

???







I've never heard of that journal or whatever it is. Probably not an ad, but many places you can almost send them the article and they'll print it. Definitely overhypes those TV numbers.

[mowe]

91,000 is not eight to ten times as much as last year.

There have been 4 games on TSN with an average of 210k viewers. I can't find numbers for last season but I don't doubt they were pathetic.

[Brooker]

I would fucking hope things are going a lot better after spending that much. lol.

[glaze]

It would be interesting to see what the ceiling is for MLS revenue. Where does TFC stand overall in comparison to the other clubs?
What do the top teams in MLS bring in?

[Pookie]

There have been 4 games on TSN with an average of 210k viewers. I can't find numbers for last season but I don't doubt they were pathetic.

Last two games on TSN (main) have been pathetic. Hopefully the spending wasn't approved based on expected ratings.

Just proves that MLS isn't a big deal in this top tier sports town. Just like Leafs reign yet Marlies draw nothing. It's a Leaf town not a hockey town.

That said, as long as the interest is there to keep them away from the days of GolTV in SD, I'm happy.

[mowe]

Just proves that MLS isn't a big deal in this top tier sports town.

No shit. No one is under any illusions that MLS has made it big. And it's not just in Toronto. Other than maybe Seattle and Portland every other MLS team is struggling for relevance in their city.

I would disagree that 100k viewers is pathetic. EPL gets between 100k to 300k for big games. Soccer is a niche sport in Canada. Outside of the GTA, how many people care about TFC? Maybe some scattered fans in Vancouver and Montreal but not many.

Even the Raptors got terrible ratings. But once they made the playoffs viewership shot up, it became the hot new thing. People need to see some tangible measure of success. Winning builds hype like no other.

[Pookie]

The warning for MLSE is that the audience dropped from 350 to 91.
Suggesting that the initial game was an "event" but they couldn't convert that into sustainable interest.

Same pattern could hold true for those bloody big deal casual season ticket holders. Pricing has to stay reasonable.

In the end, MLS will always be a niched sport here.

The big question for fans is whether the Board, run by content sellers, will continue to support this level of investment if the ROI isn't there. Particularly pertinent question of Tim L leaves.

We can talk about ticket revenue but half of that goes to the league in a revenue share. This team could cut its expenses in half and still receive the same type of revenue stream from the overall MLS ownership/revenue share arrangement.

If they don't spend on DPs anymore they will absolutely have to develop and scout.

[ensco]

The TV ratings weren't the only fairy tale in there.

Always with the fake scarcity stories. I am getting offers to buy "discounted tickets to sold out games" through deals with all of my kids soccer teams. Repeatedly. This did not happen when they really were sold out in the early days. That waiting list yarn, I will bet any amount that is not true. If the offseason ticket sales were so effing wonderful, why did I get 10 calls and 10 emails about coming back as an SSH in December and January, with the pace accelerating in January?

Also I find this pretty rich: Hopkinson said MLSE execs at the end of last season were considering whether they were “teetering on the brink of this franchise failing.” ...

I love the self-aggrandizing histrionics (this statement is total BS) and the passive voice ("Sorry I was late honey, I was victimized by magical thinking about what time it was")

Finally, "on track to [out-gross Seattle] next year"? He's bragging about gouging. Seattle draws 75% more than we do but charges a lot less than TFC's average ticket price. I guess prices are going up next year, no surprise.

[brad]

The warning for MLSE is that the audience dropped from 350 to 91.
Suggesting that the initial game was an "event" but they couldn't convert that into sustainable interest.

Same pattern could hold true for those bloody big deal casual season ticket holders. Pricing has to stay reasonable.

In the end, MLS will always be a niched sport here.

The big question for fans is whether the Board, run by content sellers, will continue to support this level of investment if the ROI isn't there. Particularly pertinent question of Tim L leaves.

We can talk about ticket revenue but half of that goes to the league in a revenue share. This team could cut its expenses in half and still receive the same type of revenue stream from the overall MLS ownership/revenue share arrangement.

If they don't spend on DPs anymore they will absolutely have to develop and scout.

There is another profit angle here that you are missing, and that is using their sporting properties to drive sales into their other lines of business (IE cell phones with data plans). You need a successful team for that to work though, and you need highlight reel stuff you can sell people on.

[brad]

The TV ratings weren't the only fairy tale in there.

Always with the fake scarcity stories. I am getting offers to buy "discounted tickets to sold out games" through deals with all of my kids soccer teams. Repeatedly. This did not happen when they really were sold out in the early days. That waiting list yarn, I will bet any amount that is not true. If the offseason ticket sales were so effing wonderful, why did I get 10 calls and 10 emails about coming back as an SSH in December and January, with the pace accelerating in January?

You had expensive seats, right? If that is the case, I'm guessing renewals in that price point were soft, and they were hitting up people that had bought in that price point in the past in hopes that they would come back. Simple case of targets demographics.

In contrast, I had a pair of light greys I let go, I got one or two calls or emails offering me tickets, but that was it. I'm likely not flagged in their system as a potential big spender. You are. They had no product to sell me, and product to sell you.

[OgtheDim]

Any discussion about the health of TFC financially based on March numbers is flawed to the point of meaninglessness.

As for the waiting list, I believe it exists. Every flex pack holder is on there. But it has little relevance to the reality of an October season ticket drive.

[v00d00daddy]

You had expensive seats, right? If that is the case, I'm guessing renewals in that price point were soft, and they were hitting up people that had bought in that price point in the past in hopes that they would come back. Simple case of targets demographics.

In contrast, I had a pair of light greys I let go, I got one or two calls or emails offering me tickets, but that was it. I'm likely not flagged in their system as a potential big spender. You are. They had no product to sell me, and product to sell you.

I had supporter seats that I dropped two years ago and I still got several emails for ticket offers this year and continue to get them.

[Canary10]

I don't really remember them sending out a poll asking for my intention to renew my season tickets. It's possible I did fill one out and forgot. Anyone remember doing that? I'm curious to know where that intent to renew figure came from.

[v00d00daddy]

As for the article....meh. It smells of the jays to me. Splash a lot of money in an off season...crank up expectation to drive interest and hope to hell that the product comes through and makes good on the hype.

We know how that worked out for the jays. Hope it doesn't happen here.

I, for one, don't like the clamouring back once Defoe and Bradley were signed. And I'm just as bad. I split a season with a buddy cause I wanted to be there for them when they turned the corner. Now I regret it.

I don't trust this club anymore and I've been sucked in so many times already. I should have known better. I appreciate that they need to protect their investment but if the product on the field fails again it will show, once again, that the success of the team is not high enough on the list of priorities for my liking.

Like ensco said...those quotes show that prices are going up. That alone should be enough to make people regret coming back so soon.

Fancy players, first year pricing, affiliation with a well know epl club......all lipstick on a pig if they flop again this year.

[Pookie]

I don't recall an "intent to renew" survey. There was something around the "seat relocation" time but I had already made the decision to opt out at that point.

Prices are already up. New season ticket holders in the North End paid 19% more than new season tickets holders in the North End in 2012. 2 seasons… 19%. Sounds fun.

We constantly received emails and phone calls regarding coming back. I was really bothered by one which basically had the tone, we've won two games are you sure you don't want back in? Another irked me just after the signings wondering if I was aware who they signed. Yep. I was aware. Just not going to give away my money any more.

The sold out thing is laughable. BMO looks "fuller" but if concerts were sold out the way TFC is "sold out", Stubhub would be out of business. Every game this season, one can buy tickets in the weeks leading up to the game including the day of through ticket master.

[ag futbol]

Add me to the list of the extremely skeptical re: sellout sand waiting lists. I get bombarded with emails from them constantly for discount packs.

[cmonyoureds]

Not that it would affect the numbers to a massive extent, but I wonder how many are not showing up on their viewing numbers by people who have had enough of paying for 400 channels of "content" and have "cut the cord"? I know a lot of.............other.............TFC fans that are content to watch games on alternative platforms................

Seems to me it increases the "worry" factor when they invest as heavily in the team as they did, obviously partly due to selling content, and the numbers are decreasing? Or do I have that wrong?