Gilberto - expectations

[C.Ronaldo]

I dont think he will hit the 25 goal mark this year.

And he hasnt scored yet, loves to hit the post.

However, he looks dominant out there. Creates his own chances.

Do you guys think he needs to get the monkey off the back? Or did he underestimate MLS?


In past years we would have been crying about our DP striker not scoring yet. This year we have options. (although injuries are adding up)


I still like him over Urruti.

[MartinUtd]

I like him and think it's just a matter of time before he starts bagging goals. My expectations remain unchanged: 15 goals

[CommradePolski]

He just needs 1 to start scoring more. Im saying he scores against colorado. I dont think he underestimated the mls at all. He looks like he can hold his own and definitely isnt cocky, if you will, on the ball thinking he is better then the guy in front of him.

[Ultra & Proud]

I expect him to keep strong with the hold up play and to pot maybe 8-12 goals. Possibly a handful of assists as well.

[notthesun]

25 goals? Were you really expecting that? Quite the lofty mark.

I think anywhere from 10-15 goals is a good number for him this year. The good thing about him is he's still a valuable piece of our starting lineup even if he's not scoring.

[Ivy]

The DC goal was all him. Shot saved, and instantly jumped in for the rebound to disrupt the clearance.
You can tell he's frustrated from not scoring, but I agree with people that think that once he scores his first, the flood gates will open.

[Abou Sky]

I don't think that 15 is unrealistic, anything less than 10 and I think he is a bit of a bust unless he has as many assists or something.

[brad]

My prediction is 5-10 goals this year as he adjusts to playing in the league and living in North America, with an increase in goals next year.

I don't think he is bust at that level, this signing is not just about one year, but several.

Also - he's not match fit yet, so judging his production before he is is unfair. IMHO - his all around game has looked good despite lack of match fitness.

[Canary10]

He's a bit of a flopper. Needs to spend more time on his feet. We have to see where he's at around August to really judge, but on his money he needs to be in double digits for goals for the season imo.

[Joe Kool]

In his playing position as well as the DP tag he has to be able to put it in the net. That is what he is paid to do. I still think he will. I like what I have seen so far. He kind of reminds me of Torres on Chelsea in his first few games. He is involved in the plays and sometimes is a main factor in the buildup to a goal but never gets it himself. As long as he contributes and provides openings to score for other players I think he is valuable to the team still even without a big goal tally. His goal of 25 was a bit too lofty and with that I think he underestimated MLS but he has proven so far he can play here. Can't wait to see how things unfold for him this year.

[Thomas]

We will see, but I like what I have seen so far. He needs be given some more time. This is a bit off topic but.......the peskier and more of a threat Gilberto becomes, the more resources and attention the opposition will have to devote to counter him.....thus freeing up scoring opportunities for another attacker.

[JayMolly]

25 goals? Were you really expecting that? Quite the lofty mark.

I think anywhere from 10-15 goals is a good number for him this year. The good thing about him is he's still a valuable piece of our starting lineup even if he's not scoring.



When we were at the Real Sports store to pick up our new jersey, Gilberto and Caldwell were there.

Gilberto said he expected to score 25 goals . . . .
J&M

[notthesun]

When we were at the Real Sports store to pick up our new jersey, Gilberto and Caldwell were there.

Gilberto said he expected to score 25 goals . . . .
J&M

Oh, right, I remember hearing of that quote. I see what he was referring to then.

[Kaz]

Gilberto never said he expected to score 25 goals..

A reported asked how many he'd like to score and he said he'd like to score 25 goals.

Every Striker would like to score that.

EDIT

Went and looked it up.

Reporter asked what his expectations were

Gilberto through an interrupter said:

"He has a goal to score 25 goals and he wants to see if he can meet that." :54 secs (http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2014/02/11/tfc-media-day-gilberto-oliveira-souza-junior)

My Expectations is to see him develop and to be a threat along with Defoe up front to force the defence to open up for not only each of them but for the midfield too..

[AlanO]

Gilberto will be a similar story as Koevermans (hopefully with a happier ending). Takes a while to pot his first, but once he does, he'll go on a rampage.

Good holdup play, first touch, and attitude. I'm impressed so far.

15 goals.

[Richard]

He has a very balanced game and as a target man he helps the team immensely even when he doesn't score. I think once he gets comfortable 15 goals should come easy, in fact if we didn't have Defoe we would be expecting more. He could reach Koevs goal scoring ratio, targetman like him are hard to find.

[Pint]

No expectations but just hoping we get to witness one of these live:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxU8VsMnouc

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Havent read anything else in this thread yet.
I expect itll take some time for him to adjust, i expect he will contribute but not necessarily through goals.
Dunno fi i expect him to be worth his pay tho

[brad]

He has a very balanced game and as a target man he helps the team immensely even when he doesn't score. I think once he gets comfortable 15 goals should come easy, in fact if we didn't have Defoe we would be expecting more. He could reach Koevs goal scoring ratio, targetman like him are hard to find.

That's a tall ask. Koev's goal scoring ratio is second best in the history of the league.

[Richard]

That's a tall ask. Koev's goal scoring ratio is second best in the history of the league.

While this is true, is Koevs body of work that much better than Gilberto's? For me the tools are there for Gilberto, all that's left to see are his natural instincts and finishing ability. I wouldn't be disappointed if he isn't up to Koevs goal ratio which is admittedly pretty nuts, but taking into account his age, development and ability, we shouldn't underestimate Gilberto. With MLS defenses double teaming Defoe he could have a field day.

[Cashcleaner]

After seeing him in action now, I think I would agree with something around the 10-15 goal mark. Like Richard said above, you've got a lot of teams undoubtedly focusing more on containing Defoe because he's proven himself a proficient goal-scorer. Of course, nobody's going to ignore Gilberto, but right now I don't think he's treated as much of an offensive threat as Defoe is, or perhaps even Bradley.

Gilberto is gonna score - it's just gonna happen. But I'm not expecting a blow-out from him this season, either.

[jloome]

I haven't seen enough to guess how many he could score with any accuracy. His interplay is very good, his work rate is decent. Don't know if he's an aerial threat at all, haven't seen him challenge in the air.

Tough to say. From his movement he looks like a good professional player, above average MLS level, maybe premiership level. But that doesn't always equate to being a consistent finisher. And he's so involved, I wonder if he's selfish enough to take all of his chances when they come.

He does look like he can create his own space, though, which in this league is very important.

I'm gonna say he's a 10-12 goals per season guy. He's not a poacher like Wondo because he's much more involved in the buildup, due to our style. But he looks dangerous most of the time.

[C.Ronaldo]

I haven't seen enough to guess how many he could score with any accuracy. His interplay is very good, his work rate is decent. Don't know if he's an aerial threat at all, haven't seen him challenge in the air.

Tough to say. From his movement he looks like a good professional player, above average MLS level, maybe premiership level. But that doesn't always equate to being a consistent finisher. And he's so involved, I wonder if he's selfish enough to take all of his chances when they come.

He does look like he can create his own space, though, which in this league is very important.

I'm gonna say he's a 10-12 goals per season guy. He's not a poacher like Wondo because he's much more involved in the buildup, due to our style. But he looks dangerous most of the time.


correct not a poacher....doesnt have the toe poke style nor that lazy Lion in a field than pounce look.

[CretanBull]

He's a good player and his skills are kind of the opposite of what Defoe does so they compliment each other pretty well.


IMO Bradley has been our best player by far - maybe best in the league so far?

[Jack]

I expect him to get better each game. Between the early-season injury and the language and developing chemistry with his teammates, I think he'll hit his stride later in the season and then all of the glimpses we are now seeing will come together.

[ag futbol]

I like him so far. 80% of Defoes chances in that first home game came directly from Gilberto, something he's not getting enough credit for IMO. Goals will come, strikers are nothing if not confident in themselves.

[tfcocd]

He has a very balanced game and as a target man he helps the team immensely even when he doesn't score. I think once he gets comfortable 15 goals should come easy, in fact if we didn't have Defoe we would be expecting more. He could reach Koevs goal scoring ratio, targetman like him are hard to find.

If Gilberto can be developed into a 20 goal scorer, Defoe could be part of a squad rotation for the strike force where he didn't have to play all games and could skip any shite nfl stadia masking as a venue for MLS. If TFC could find previous cup form and make a run Defoe could feature in some CCL games and maybe give TFC a chance to take the next step in the competition and have a shot at a new trophy for the cabinet. First step reclaim the Voyageurs cup!

[Cashcleaner]

I haven't seen enough to guess how many he could score with any accuracy. His interplay is very good, his work rate is decent. Don't know if he's an aerial threat at all, haven't seen him challenge in the air.

Tough to say. From his movement he looks like a good professional player, above average MLS level, maybe premiership level. But that doesn't always equate to being a consistent finisher. And he's so involved, I wonder if he's selfish enough to take all of his chances when they come.

He does look like he can create his own space, though, which in this league is very important.

I'm gonna say he's a 10-12 goals per season guy. He's not a poacher like Wondo because he's much more involved in the buildup, due to our style. But he looks dangerous most of the time.

Yeah, that's a pretty fair assessment. Thinking about it now, it's like he's shown a high level of skill in almost all the requirements for a good striker except for just being able to put that ball in the back of the net.

What sticks out the most in my mind when I see Gilberto play is his movement. He's typically quick to spot openings and seems to have a good eye on noticing defensive mistakes and how to exploit them.

When it comes to sports in general, I know what I like; and I like seeing players who excel at capitalizing on the mistakes of their opponents. If Gilberto ends up being that sort of player, I will be a very happy supporter.

[Ivy]

I know I mentioned this before somewhere, but Gilberto will take time. It's especially hard for him to make quick adjustments and ask his teammates for different service during the game because he speaks 0 English. Unlike Laba who would start the attack, Gilberto is trying to finish it - so the built up has to be in his favor.

[Hamilton_Red]

That's a tall ask. Koev's goal scoring ratio is second best in the history of the league.

Chad Barret scored more goals for TfC than Koevs. Koev had a very short time in the sun... well over rated IMO.

[OgtheDim]

Chad Barret scored more goals for TfC than Koevs. Koev had a very short time in the sun... well over rated IMO.

What the...........Koevs had 17 goals in 26 games. He was scoring goals every 113 minutes. That is unheard of. AND its that rate that Brad was talking about. For Gilberto to get anywhere near that would be phenomenal.

[trane]

I love what I see so far for Gilberto. Once he puts it all together, he will score lots. I said 10-15. But I like that he set his goals to 25, it means he wants it. We will see.

[brad]

Chad Barret scored more goals for TfC than Koevs. Koev had a very short time in the sun... well over rated IMO.

Poster I replied to said goal scoring ratio - not total number goals. Koevs number here (goals to minutes played) was second best in the history of the league.

[Sweeper]

Gilberto has been a bit unlucky I would say and is getting his fitness back. I really like his speed and positioning and with Bradley and Osorio feeding him he will score a bunch of goals. I would have been worried if he wasn't getting service as I don't think he will create goals out of nowhere like Defoe may.

[Areathrasher]

I love what I see so far for Gilberto. Once he puts it all together, he will score lots. I said 10-15. But I like that he set his goals to 25, it means he wants it. We will see.
Agreed.

[brad]

What the...........Koevs had 17 goals in 26 games. He was scoring goals every 113 minutes. That is unheard of. AND its that rate that Brad was talking about. For Gilberto to get anywhere near that would be phenomenal.

Exactly. I think Gilberto is going to be good and will score for us.

But does anyone really think he is going to break the MLS goalscoring record this year? Because if he puts up numbers like Koves and stays fit that is what he will do.

I certainly don't expect that.

[Canary10]

Chad Barret scored more goals for TfC than Koevs. Koev had a very short time in the sun... well over rated IMO.

By two with about double the number of appearances. Koef was a goal scoring machine. If not for that injury he'd be the top TFC scorer now.

[ryan]

Gilberto is the kind of player who can bag 2-3 in a match. He's not only going to score us some goals once he rounds into form, he's going to score some fucking beautiful goals. He's got an eye for the top shelf like a hockey player.

[adam1001]

He has done well enough in the time he's had. I feel like once he gets one, they're going to keep coming.

[Canary10]

I think you guys are looking at him with rose coloured glasses. Or maybe the afterglow of a great off-season. I haven't seen enough really either way to guess how he'll be long term. He had a nice assist on the Defoe goal against DC. Had a shot that was always wide and rising go off the woodwork against Columbus. Other than that, not much. To me the flopping is a concern. A breeze off the Lakeshore knocks him down. Watch on Saturday how often he goes to ground. It makes me question his work rate. But again, it's so early I don't know how people can confidently predict he'll score 15 goals or say he's a flop. Wait until August for that conversation.

[pdogg]

What did people expect Gilberto respond when asked about how many goals he'd bag this year? Be humble? Imagine it went this way:

Reporter: Gilberto, what are your expectations for scoring this year?

Gilberto (through interpreter) : I think I'm going to take at bit of time to get used to my teammates and my striker partner - barring any injuries, of course. This year, my numbers will be lower than what we all want, but should improve next year and the year after. I'm going to give you a safe number, maybe 5-10 goals.

Does that really sound like a player we'd want as a striker? I want a finisher that has confidence in his abilities, even if it is only hubris. I want him to be upset that he didn't hit his goal, even if was unrealistic, and to work harder to hit it next year. And if he did score 25 this year, I'd hope he expects 30 next season.

[Abou Sky]

I have enough confidence to captain him this weekend for my fantasy team, I think he pops his cherry tomorrow.

[Canary10]

I have enough confidence to captain him this weekend for my fantasy team, I think he pops his cherry tomorrow.

I like it when people put their money where their mouth is. Well, not money exactly but you know what I mean. Not a bad to punt to make actually. Hope it works out.

[trane]

What did people expect Gilberto respond when asked about how many goals he'd bag this year? Be humble? Imagine it went this way:

Reporter: Gilberto, what are your expectations for scoring this year?

Gilberto (through interpreter) : I think I'm going to take at bit of time to get used to my teammates and my striker partner - barring any injuries, of course. This year, my numbers will be lower than what we all want, but should improve next year and the year after. I'm going to give you a safe number, maybe 5-10 goals.

Does that really sound like a player we'd want as a striker? I want a finisher that has confidence in his abilities, even if it is only hubris. I want him to be upset that he didn't hit his goal, even if was unrealistic, and to work harder to hit it next year. And if he did score 25 this year, I'd hope he expects 30 next season.

Exactly.


Canary, for me I like his movemnt on and off the ball, I liked his passing, he took quality shots at the goal, he created decent chances out of little, he is strong, and he has good pace, he has good vision for his own positioning and to see his teammates, I have seen everything I would want for a professional striker. Now he shows me some finish, and he could be a top MLS striker and a good striker on almost any professional team other then the top European teams.

[T-boy]

I think everybody is equating goals scored as a success/failure rate, but that's not the case for every forward. From what I've seen of Gilberto so far, he brings other players into play with his runs and skill. I don't see him as a 20+ goals a year player, more a 10 to 15, and then he creates chances for other goals just by his off the ball play. I don' think we are going to judge this guy by just goals scored.

[C.Ronaldo]

hmm. still goaless.

wasnt DP quality against Colorado, not as much hussle as in the past, Dero was more involved and creative(even with his lost steps).
Im going to ignore that game completely. Gilberto needs to score soon or set a few up, that's the job he was hired to do.

[Canary10]

Exactly.


Canary, for me I like his movemnt on and off the ball, I liked his passing, he took quality shots at the goal, he created decent chances out of little, he is strong, and he has good pace, he has good vision for his own positioning and to see his teammates, I have seen everything I would want for a professional striker. Now he shows me some finish, and he could be a top MLS striker and a good striker on almost any professional team other then the top European teams.

So you're saying he could be a starter on, say, Everton? Or Southampton? He wouldn't get a start over my favourite player Ricky Van Workrate.

I can see a bit of what you are saying. He's made some nice layoffs. When he runs he knows where to go. He's a bit lazy about it though. In fairness, he's definitely not getting enough service. But the more I see of him the less convinced I am of what you guys are saying, not more. He does have to score goals too. You just can't be a DP striker and not be scoring. Again, I think he needs half a season before we can really say.

[Red4ever]

I wish we still had Laba.

[shwade]

I wish we still had Laba.

I wish we still had him too...but it's still way too early to say he'd be a better DP than Gilberto. Gilberto alongside Defoe has been pretty good.
Bradley and Laba in the midfield tho...oh to dream.

[pdogg]

I wish we still had Laba.

And then we could start Weideman and Hamilton up front. With no bench forwards.

[OgtheDim]

hmm. still goaless.

wasnt DP quality against Colorado, not as much hussle as in the past, Dero was more involved and creative(even with his lost steps).
....

Not from what I saw, but I was at the game.

[Super]

I think getting that first goal will make all the difference in the world to Gilberto. Very important to get that goal early - like Defoe did. That allows him to work in peace. Now there's so much pressure on him that it may effect how he plays the game.

[brad]

And then we could start Weideman and Hamilton up front. With no bench forwards.


Pretty much, I had though the same. That said, before the injuries hit, we had Dike for depth up front, and DeRo was probably worth a punt as depth up front. Of course, you can make a very valid argument (as Pookie is doing) about the wisdom of relying on injury prone or recently injured players in a league with no injury cap relief

We all knew going into this season that in depth center midfield was going to be a problem, and now we are seeing it.

[Stugatzo]

Hmmmm...I like his desire and has shown some hustle. But I concur with comments that he was hired (and is being paid handsomely) to do better.
I fear a bit of a Soldado sitchyation brewing here!

[Canary10]

Hmmmm...I like his desire and has shown some hustle. But I concur with comments that he was hired (and is being paid handsomely) to do better.
I fear a bit of a Soldado sitchyation brewing here!

Well, he had about six months before people started calling him a flop....

[Jack]

Laba didn't go because of Gilberto, Laba went because of Bradley.

[Canary10]

Laba didn't go because of Gilberto, Laba went because of Bradley.

This is an endless debate here. But TFC never said that Bradley is a replacement/upgrade on Laba. In fact, the messaging was always that Bradley and Laba would be a killer central midfield, and management was doing everything in its power to keep Laba. These are not like for like players. Laba had to go because TFC invested $100 million in two star DPs. That left two second tier DPs for one spot. Laba went.

[shwade]

^^ Exacto.

[Red4ever]

And then we could start Weideman and Hamilton up front. With no bench forwards.

at the time that decision was made, we had Dike squarely in the mix. But yeah, good point.

[Red4ever]

Laba didn't go because of Gilberto, Laba went because of Bradley.

A DP is a DP, we had room for three. Once we had four, one had to go. Either cut off a DP you brought into the mix last year or cut off a DP you brought into the mix this year.

I reject the whole "it was Laba or Bradley" argument. If we wanted to cut Gilberto and keep Laba, we certainly could have done that.

[OgtheDim]

Cutting Gilberto for Bradley was never a consideration.

The move was Bradley in, Laba either finaggled or out.

[Red CB Toronto]

I have to admit, Gilberto has a wonderful autograph, he is good in my books.

[notthesun]

A DP is a DP, we had room for three. Once we had four, one had to go. Either cut off a DP you brought into the mix last year or cut off a DP you brought into the mix this year.

I reject the whole "it was Laba or Bradley" argument. If we wanted to cut Gilberto and keep Laba, we certainly could have done that.

I disagree. We had a press conference for his signing, his face was all over the team website. It's probably the first case of an MLS team signing a promising Brazilian player entering his prime years. Those kinds of players typically go to Portugal or other European teams. What kind of message are we sending to potential signings down the road if we toss out a million dollar signing, which we ourselves hyped up to our fans, before he even steps on the pitch?

It was a new management team coming in and trying to establish a new culture for the entire organization. We already looked like jokers after shipping out Urruti so quickly. Doing it again? Good luck ever signing another young South American.

In practical terms, yes, the option existed to scrap Gilberto and keep Laba. But realistically, it never was an option, not for a second.

[Richard]

A DP is a DP, we had room for three. Once we had four, one had to go. Either cut off a DP you brought into the mix last year or cut off a DP you brought into the mix this year.

I reject the whole "it was Laba or Bradley" argument. If we wanted to cut Gilberto and keep Laba, we certainly could have done that.

The sole purpose of the last offseason was to get two DP strikers. Not a striker and midfielder.

Bradley was not even on the radar until well after we had signed both DP strikers, you don't turn down an offer to sign Bradely.

So please tell me how you can justify moving a recently signed DP player in Gilberto for Bradley, you cant. Laba is seen as part of the old regime(Payne) so he was easy to justify in moving, even though there doesn't really need to be a justification for moving him. As Notthesun said, another Urruti situation would be a disaster.

Bradley is seen as a direct upgrade to Laba and of course TFC wanted to desperately keep Laba and Bradley, that would be the best midfield combo in the league but at the end of the day we got a world class upgrade in Bradley.

[Canary10]

The sole purpose of the last offseason was to get two DP strikers. Not a striker and midfielder.

Bradley was not even on the radar until well after we had signed both DP strikers.

So please tell me how you can justify moving a recently signed DP player in Gilberto for Bradley,
Bradley is seen as a direct upgrade to Laba, of course TFC wanted to desperately keep Laba and Bradley as that would be the best midfield combo in the league but at the end of the day we got a world class upgrade in Bradley.

This isn't true. He was never sold as an upgrade to Laba and, as we know, he's a very different player than Laba.

I agree with everyone who says there was not really a practical choice - after selling Gilberto the way they did, Laba was likely the odd man out. But for me the question that will be answered by the end of the season, or maybe earlier, is was this smart?

[Red CB Toronto]

I would take General Bradley over anyone else on this team, he is the type of player you build a team around. We all know how quickly the deal for MB came together, so things had to be dealt with in a quick manner. Yes it would have been ideal for the Reds to keep Laba around for the 2014 season but the reality is, they could not due to the transfer fee forcing him to be a DP this year.

[C.Ronaldo]

Serious question, regardless of how he does.

Do you loan out Gilberto in the winter?

[brad]

I disagree. We had a press conference for his signing, his face was all over the team website. It's probably the first case of an MLS team signing a promising Brazilian player entering his prime years. Those kinds of players typically go to Portugal or other European teams. What kind of message are we sending to potential signings down the road if we toss out a million dollar signing, which we ourselves hyped up to our fans, before he even steps on the pitch?

It was a new management team coming in and trying to establish a new culture for the entire organization. We already looked like jokers after shipping out Urruti so quickly. Doing it again? Good luck ever signing another young South American.

In practical terms, yes, the option existed to scrap Gilberto and keep Laba. But realistically, it never was an option, not for a second.

But we did do it again, with Laba. We signed him and shipped him out shortly after. We had to do it when we signed Bradley, but I don't think there is a huge difference to future transfer targets in perception between Gilberto or Laba going. Gilberto would have been a bit worse for optics in that we would have signed a player then shipped him out without playing. But players are going to pay attention to it either way.

Also - this has another issue in that it shines a light on the very different world of the single entity model of this league. Players outside of North America are not used to be traded around against their will. it's a fairly backwards concept to the majority of the football world.

[OgtheDim]

I'd rather he take time off and come back to the full team together as a unit. We are not going to have a home game until May the next two season. We will need as much cohesion as possible to forestall going very deep into a hole points wise.

[brad]

Serious question, regardless of how he does.

Do you loan out Gilberto in the winter?

Nope - rest him and get him ready for pre-season.

[OgtheDim]

But we did do it again, with Laba. We signed him and shipped him out shortly after.....

May to March is a bit more then shortly and does not compare to Urruti at all. And is acceptable. Gilberto would have been a PR disaster and was never EVER considered. Nor should it have been.

[prizby]

I watched Gilberto a lot in the second half...he isn't the problem; the midfield was. So many times he was hugging the defensive line calling for the ball to be played into the space in front of him between the defenders...instead, every single time this happened, we'd pass the ball to the side or backwards; midfielders gotta get their heads up and see him!

[Red4ever]

I disagree. We had a press conference for his signing, his face was all over the team website. It's probably the first case of an MLS team signing a promising Brazilian player entering his prime years. Those kinds of players typically go to Portugal or other European teams. What kind of message are we sending to potential signings down the road if we toss out a million dollar signing, which we ourselves hyped up to our fans, before he even steps on the pitch?

It was a new management team coming in and trying to establish a new culture for the entire organization. We already looked like jokers after shipping out Urruti so quickly. Doing it again? Good luck ever signing another young South American.

In practical terms, yes, the option existed to scrap Gilberto and keep Laba. But realistically, it never was an option, not for a second.

I'm only thinking in practical terms, but I bet you all the money in my pocket, that discussion was had somewhere within MLSE. And I do agree it sends a bad message, but having the best possible team is a more important message. We would be panned by a few, it would ward a few people off to be sure, but when we win, everything takes care of its self. Better players come.

Gilberto, until he does something, will stand as one of the few "oops". I'm willing to bet, money aside, if we had Bradley and Defore first, it would Laba in Uniform and not Gilberto.

[brad]

May to March is a bit more then shortly and does not compare to Urruti at all. And is acceptable. Gilberto would have been a PR disaster and was never EVER considered. Nor should it have been.

I agree Gilberto would have been a PR disaster for the front office with TFC supporters, based on the fact that he was signed by this FO and hyped up.

But I don't agree there is a material difference on the outside looking in for foreign players looking at TFC. We still signed a couple of promising young players from S. America and shipped them out (without their say) shortly after. That is what they will see. My point is that from this perspective, whether or not it was Gilberto or Laba is going to matter very little. Regardless, this was the price to pay to get Bradley, so it needed to be done. I also don't think this is going to make a huge difference in our ability to attract players. These guys are coming the the MLS for a steady pay check and we can offer that. We can also offer a chance to train and play with some top players as well.

If anything, the situation will draw attention to the arcane MLS rules and that in itself might make players question the move.

btw - I'm not and never have suggested that the FO should have moved Gilberto instead of Laba. I have always been on the side of keeping Gilberto.

[jabbronies]

Defoe was always the guy who would make his own chances. He didn't require precision service. That's how he was sold to us.

Anyone remember what was said about Gilberto? I don't
But so far - he's been given service and not capitalized - however, he has been a good distributor for others who have capitalized.
He feels more like a target man rather than a finisher

[Jack]

The intention was to start the season with three DPs. Two of those three were signed by Tim and Tim. The plan was Defoe, Gilberto and Laba as our DPs for this season. Then, the stars (and stripes?) aligned and along came Bradley. So Tim and Tim say "yes, please" and sign him. Now they have three DPs that are "theirs" and one who is left over from KP. They have the two DP strikers they promised us and the revised plan to start the season, once the Laba contract couldn't be fixed, becomes Defoe, Gilberto and Bradley as our DPs. That's why I am of the mind that Laba went because of Bradley, not Gilberto or Defoe. Up until the Bradley deal happens, Laba is in the plans, Bradley happens and he becomes the only logical odd man out in this scenario.

I understand the other point of view, but I don't agree that it would happen. It could technically have happened, sure, but not with Tim and Tim running the show.

[ryan]

I'm only thinking in practical terms, but I bet you all the money in my pocket, that discussion was had somewhere within MLSE. And I do agree it sends a bad message, but having the best possible team is a more important message. We would be panned by a few, it would ward a few people off to be sure, but when we win, everything takes care of its self. Better players come.

Gilberto, until he does something, will stand as one of the few "oops". I'm willing to bet, money aside, if we had Bradley and Defore first, it would Laba in Uniform and not Gilberto.

I doubt it. We have a serious need up front. Without Gilberto we would have been in line to start Dike, with aging DeRosario and Wiedeman being our 1st choices off the bench....

After the Dike injury, we'd be straight fucked at striker right now without having Gilberto. We needed a strong player up front, not two defensive minded mid's.

I'm not going to repeat the oft stated laundry list of excuses Gilberto has in front of him, they are simply ignored anyways. No patience or understanding in this city, perform today or fuck off. Welcome to Toronto.

[Canary10]

I doubt it. We have a serious need up front. Without Gilberto we would have been in line to start Dike, with aging DeRosario and Wiedeman being our 1st choices off the bench....

After the Dike injury, we'd be straight fucked at striker right now without having Gilberto. We needed a strong player up front, not two defensive minded mid's.

I'm not going to repeat the oft stated laundry list of excuses Gilberto has in front of him, they are simply ignored anyways. No patience or understanding in this city, perform today or fuck off. Welcome to Toronto.

We still would have needed a striker, but they may have taken another route to get one.

[Sweeper]

I get the distinct impression that many people on these boards have written off Gilberto after 5 games, one of which he didn't even play in. So far the DM position isn't the problem, so having Laba (although a moot argument) wouldn't solve our lack of goals without Bradley and Defoe in the lineup. It is way to soon to pass judgement.

[jloome]

The DP debate to me is a separate issue from whether Gilberto is a good player, which to me he obviously is. Give him time, he'll score goals.

[Yohan]

A DP is a DP, we had room for three. Once we had four, one had to go. Either cut off a DP you brought into the mix last year or cut off a DP you brought into the mix this year.

I reject the whole "it was Laba or Bradley" argument. If we wanted to cut Gilberto and keep Laba, we certainly could have done that.
Cut Gilberto who TFC paid 3 mil plus for. I somehow doubt this

[ryan]

We still would have needed a striker, but they may have taken another route to get one.

Would be a low end quality player based on cap restrictions. IMO - not good enough for the role that required filling.

[Canary10]

Would be a low end quality player based on cap restrictions. IMO - not good enough for the role that required filling.

To me you want a second striker with MLS goal scoring experience. There were MLSers who could score 10 + goals available out there. I always felt we were taking a real flyer on a guy without much of a track record. But anyway, what's done is done. Hopefully he gets one soon and the floodgates open.

[Red4ever]

To me you want a second striker with MLS goal scoring experience. There were MLSers who could score 10 + goals available out there. I always felt we were taking a real flyer on a guy without much of a track record. But anyway, what's done is done. Hopefully he gets one soon and the floodgates open.

Yup.

[notthesun]

I guarantee you the conversation at the TFC front office after signing Bradley went like this.

"We could try to keep Laba, otherwise we'll have to move him."

"Right."

"Or we could cut Gil-"

"No."

This debate is such a bore to me. Listen guys, very little in football ever works out exactly as you planned. Maybe if Bradley had fallen into our laps a month earlier, we wouldn't have signed Gilberto. That's up for debate. What isn't is that there was only ever one potential odd man out in the situation we found ourselves in.

Bezbatchenko did the best he could, the only reasonable thing he could do, with the hand he was dealt. Which was a pretty fucking good hand.

[Jack]

And now back to Gilberto's expectations. So far, he's been showing signs that are promising, which I like. I am not going to even make a judgement on him until later in the season.

[Mr_gamble]

You got to give the lad time. You got to give the rest of the lads time to understand Gilberto and the type of runs/plays he makes. He hasn't played with the same centre mid pairing all season (I think. I may be wrong), which isn't ideal for a new striker. When the teams injuries settle down (they best settle down...), and you see the same XI starting week in week out, then you will see the real him.

Even saying that, he has had some pretty good opportunities so far, and hasn't looked too bad. Certainly better than DeRo has started this season, but thats another story. :)

[FluSH]

The title of this thread reads like the start of an action plan for an underperforming staff lol

[gate7]

I have a baaaad feeling that Defoe will see the injury wagon alot this year........so in hindsight i would take Gilberto, Laba and Bradley over Defoe.......that's right i said it.:hide:

[gate7]

ofcource if we can find a young 300k striker to fill the gap^^^

[David_Oliveira]

I really do feel for Gilberto. He's in a new country with new players and can't really communicate with the anyone (expept for two players). It makes a transition that much harder. You can tell he has the skill to be successful in this league but communicating where he wants the ball is tough. He needs that much more time compared to an Anglo speaking player to adjust. We just need abit of patience with him

[Shakes McQueen]

Best striker in the league not to have a goal.

(He says without checking to make sure who still doesn't have a goal)

[Still Kicking]

Snow returns to Toronto today. I am thinking that this will not count as a recovery day for the stadium playing surface. Does this mean another setback for Gilberto ? I am convinced that sloppy, sloggy pitch has caused problems for Gilberto (and Jackson last game too)
I am critical of Gilberto, based on the little we have seen of him, but I have some sympathy too. Language barrier, cultural barrier, adjusting to new team, new coach, new league. Trying to gel with Defoe - sorry, injured, trying to gel with Dero, trying to be the Designated Player on a team that has had a spectacular run of wrong Designated Players. A rotating roster of midfielders (Bradley, Bloom, Rey, Jackson, Osorio, Nakajima-Farran, Bekker, Hall) in just 4 games.
If he is being badly coached, then his talent may overcome that.
If he needs time to adjust to the host of new variables, fair enough.
If he is a player with those silky skills (and an attitude) that does not prosper on mucky fields with physical play, MLS seasons include March and Aprils (snow is still falling) and end with Octobers and Novembers. Hoping for the best... but, man, don't envy the learning curve he faces and the burden of expectations that will only grow.

[jabbronies]

Snow returns to Toronto today. I am thinking that this will not count as a recovery day for the stadium playing surface. Does this mean another setback for Gilberto ? I am convinced that sloppy, sloggy pitch has caused problems for Gilberto (and Jackson last game too)
....
If he is a player with those silky skills (and an attitude) that does not prosper on mucky fields with physical play, MLS seasons include March and Aprils (snow is still falling) and end with Octobers and Novembers. Hoping for the best... but, man, don't envy the learning curve he faces and the burden of expectations that will only grow.

I can't accept this as a reason for his poor performance. If this is the case, add the first few rounds of CCL games to the list of times when he won't perform well. At that point he would be useless, if not already considered so.


I am critical of Gilberto, based on the little we have seen of him, but I have some sympathy too. Language barrier, cultural barrier, adjusting to new team, new coach, new league. Trying to gel with Defoe - sorry, injured, trying to gel with Dero, trying to be the Designated Player on a team that has had a spectacular run of wrong Designated Players. A rotating roster of midfielders (Bradley, Bloom, Rey, Jackson, Osorio, Nakajima-Farran, Bekker, Hall) in just 4 games.
If he is being badly coached, then his talent may overcome that.
If he needs time to adjust to the host of new variables, fair enough.

He looked great when paired with Defoe. He doesn't finish, but it's the stuff he does to get things moving forward that impressed me. He wasn't selfish and was more than happy to distribute. Something Alvero Rey could do more of.

After seeing the tantrums he was throwing on the weekend I realize a few things about him:
- He's young and has little patience. Not a quality of a leader - even with the age taken into consideration
- He's not a leader. Sure he's got skill but that only helps himself. A true leader would've been able to make everyone else up front better. The exact opposite was true. Last game it was all about the midfield - the forwards had zero going for them.
- He's not creative in the sense he doesn't know how to effectively change up his game or the game of others around him to make things happen. back to my original point, his idea of making something happen was to flop in the 18 yard box. And it was even a good flop at that.


I think people need to realize that this guy is a young DP - someone who won't show their full potential for another year or so. He'll have moments of greatness and won't look out of place when paired with other great players (Defoe, Bradley), but on his own I don't see him working miracles. He may even look like another MLS striker at times. Instead of elevating those around him, he stoops down to what's happening around him.

[Lumpy]

It gets a little tiring reading all this crap about Gilberto not scoring yet. The fact is that Gilberto is not getting the ball very often so he has very chances to score. This was really evident last week without Bradley. Our midfielders need to do a better job getting the ball to our strikers. Bekker and Hall should not be on the field because they cannot get the ball to our strikers. Neither of them are much of a threat to score in open play which further decreases the possibility that our strikers will get the ball or score. The problem lies in our midfield not our strikers.

[C.Ronaldo]

I really do feel for Gilberto. He's in a new country with new players and can't really communicate with the anyone (expept for two players). It makes a transition that much harder. You can tell he has the skill to be successful in this league but communicating where he wants the ball is tough. He needs that much more time compared to an Anglo speaking player to adjust. We just need abit of patience with him


We should have been teaching English for month's now. Im actually very surprised at how little english he knows. Doesnt seem to understand a word of it. Is he from the favelas (slums) or something?

He will come around and adjust, but how long will it take. How long will the FO wait. Some guys just never adjust once money gets tossed at them.....cough Quaresma cough.

[Graeme]

It gets a little tiring reading all this crap about Gilberto not scoring yet. The fact is that Gilberto is not getting the ball very often so he has very chances to score. This was really evident last week without Bradley. Our midfielders need to do a better job getting the ball to our strikers. Bekker and Hall should not be on the field because they cannot get the ball to our strikers. Neither of them are much of a threat to score in open play which further decreases the possibility that our strikers will get the ball or score. The problem lies in our midfield not our strikers.

This. So many times on Saturday he made magnificent cuts timed for when Bekker or Hall received a pass, which instead they would immediate pass back to the wing or the defenders. For all the talk about how great Bekker played on Saturday (certainly improved), the mid-field is to blame for the scoreline.

[Lumpy]

Summary of this page for comments about Gilberto------Born in slums, can't speak English, nouveau riche, tantrum thrower, flopper, impatient, not a leader, not creative, can't play in bad weather ... Well not much left to say after all this b.s. Maybe I could add axe-murderer, cannibal and drug addict to the list. I think that just about covers it all.

[jabbronies]

It gets a little tiring reading all this crap about Gilberto not scoring yet. The fact is that Gilberto is not getting the ball very often so he has very chances to score. This was really evident last week without Bradley. Our midfielders need to do a better job getting the ball to our strikers. Bekker and Hall should not be on the field because they cannot get the ball to our strikers. Neither of them are much of a threat to score in open play which further decreases the possibility that our strikers will get the ball or score. The problem lies in our midfield not our strikers.

You really think so? How many times did Dero give the ball up? The guy had a lead foot all game! His first touch was brutal!
The strikers had their chances and none of them did anything.

Defoe is the only striker with a goal this year, the rest comes from the midfield.
I'm not laying sole blame on the strikers, but their misfortunes have much less to do with the midfield service and more to do with thier own lack of quality - either from not being able to finish or not being in the right spot.

[TorontoGooner]

Watch Gilberto off the ball. It's the runs he makes, the way he pulls defenders away on dummy runs, that's why he is a quality player. MLS is a completely different league to any other in the world.

Let's give the guy some time, he is going to become a fantastic player for us

[Lumpy]

You really think so? How many times did Dero give the ball up? The guy had a lead foot all game! His first touch was brutal!
The strikers had their chances and none of them did anything.

Defoe is the only striker with a goal this year, the rest comes from the midfield.
I'm not laying sole blame on the strikers, but their misfortunes have much less to do with the midfield service and more to do with thier own lack of quality - either from not being able to finish or not being in the right spot.

Dero shouldn't be playing. Many thought that he would bring back some kind of sweet memories of the past to them but it hasn't happened. Without Bradley Osorio and Rey we had the worst midfield in the league. Bekker and Hall are useless in providing any forward movement. Yes I think our midfield without three of our starters is useless.

[jabbronies]

Dero shouldn't be playing. Many thought that he would bring back some kind of sweet memories of the past to them but it hasn't happened. Without Bradley Osorio and Rey we had the worst midfield in the league. Bekker and Hall are useless in providing any forward movement. Yes I think our midfield without three of our starters is useless.

Agree with the Hall statement...However I don't think Jackson and Issey were that bad. I wouldn't say worst in the league. Mid level for sure.
As for Bekker - He was the backbone of that midfield on the weekend. Doesn't say much - I mean he managed the game decently - good enough for a 0-0 draw IMO, maybe even a 1-0 win. Don't think the loss was deserved.

As a whole unit - I would say this group are lower mid MLS level. Hall really brings down the quality because of his lack of everything. He makes very poor decisions in there. Add Bradley to this mix and both Bekker and Issey are solid options. One criticism I have for both is their off the ball positioning. With the ball they do some nice things, including moving forward IMO. Off the ball they were all over the place. running into each other numerous times.

Which brings us back on topic and the positioning of the strikers last game.

For whatever reason both decided to play deep and close to their defenders. They weren't very good at making space for themselves and opening up the final 3rd of the pitch. Numerous times I saw tons of open space between the ball carrier who was outside the 18 yard back and the closest striker. They can move in one direction - forward - really only left the crossing option available for those ball carriers.

I can understand if one guy does it, but when both do it, it really leaves no options moving forward. Both strikers are left static pressed up against a defender with no space to move once they do get the ball.

[pdogg]

Dero shouldn't be playing. Many thought that he would bring back some kind of sweet memories of the past to them but it hasn't happened. Without Bradley Osorio and Rey we had the worst midfield in the league. Bekker and Hall are useless in providing any forward movement. Yes I think our midfield without three of our starters is useless.

The bolded area above is key. I think that if you took any team and MLS and removed 3 of their first choice midfielders, would crumble back to front.

It's also ridiculous to think about how little our starters have played together. Osorio was rookie last year and Rey came in around mid-season. Bradley and Jackson are brand new this year and have played only 3 league games together.

The two that have played together the most are the ones that would link up the least (Rey, Jackson).

Game 1 - Rey, Osorio, Bradley, Jackson
Game 2 - Rey, Osorio, Bradley, Jackson
Game 3 - Rey, Bradley (w/ Hall, Bloom - Osorio injured, Jackson suspended)
Game 4 - Rey, Bradley, Jackson (w/ Bekker, Osorio injured)
Game 5 - Jackson (w/ Issey, Bekker, Hall - Bradley, Rey, Osorio injured)

[brad]

Watch Gilberto off the ball. It's the runs he makes, the way he pulls defenders away on dummy runs, that's why he is a quality player. MLS is a completely different league to any other in the world.

Let's give the guy some time, he is going to become a fantastic player for us

The challenge of any player coming from a higher standard of football to here is to adapt their game to the lower quality of football. This is one of the reasons that success at a higher level is not a guarantee of success at a lower level, and why some top players take some time to adjust when coming to the MLS.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

The challenge of any player coming from a higher standard of football to here is to adapt their game to the lower quality of football. This is one of the reasons that success at a higher level is not a guarantee of success at a lower level, and why some top players take some time to adjust when coming to the MLS.

Your post makes me think of Clint Dempsey - 1 goal in his first 27 games, and 6 goals in his last 3 (read an article in the last day or two - these numbers are from memory but I'm pretty sure they're accurate). I'm sure he was doing the right kind of work before he started scoring. I'm not saying I expect Gilberto to score 2 a game, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

[brad]

Your post makes me think of Clint Dempsey - 1 goal in his first 27 games, and 6 goals in his last 3 (read an article in the last day or two - these numbers are from memory but I'm pretty sure they're accurate). I'm sure he was doing the right kind of work before he started scoring. I'm not saying I expect Gilberto to score 2 a game, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

Or Thierry Henry for another example. 2 goals in 11 appearances in his first season, then 14 in 26 the next and 15 in 24 the year after.

[Canary10]

It's definitely way too early to start calling him Flopinho. A goal against Dallas would be great though. And take a lot of pressure off.

[shwade]

Kind of hard to score when you're finding yourself space and making runs but the thick headedness of the midfield can't make a single fucking forward pass. Bekkers getting quite a bit of credit for nothing. ..he lacks any sort of creativity. I guess those 2 free kicks that almost made it in made up for it.

[InDa_110]

Thousands of scouts from all over the world are in Brazil on any given day, and nobody else picked up this guy except us???

[shwade]

Thousands of scouts from all over the world are in Brazil on any given day, and nobody else picked up this guy except us???

how do we know for certain if no other team was interested? Maybe we outbid them, maybe they have more financial liberty and could pick up even better players. That's like saying no one else was interested in Cesar or Bradley.

[jabbronies]

Or Thierry Henry for another example. 2 goals in 11 appearances in his first season, then 14 in 26 the next and 15 in 24 the year after.


Your post makes me think of Clint Dempsey - 1 goal in his first 27 games, and 6 goals in his last 3 (read an article in the last day or two - these numbers are from memory but I'm pretty sure they're accurate). I'm sure he was doing the right kind of work before he started scoring. I'm not saying I expect Gilberto to score 2 a game, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

I agree with both these posts.
Remember that you are comparing an inexperienced 24 year old to 30 year old veterans.
With that being said, According to what I'm reading on this page from others, It could take him over a full season to adapt depending on his situation.

This is where my problem lies with the arguments being made that it's a midfield issue.
If this guy hasn't figured out how to adapt to this situation, I see this as a player development issue.
Reality of MLS and this team in particular is that he will need to figure out how to excel in less than perfect conditions.

I'm not saying we get rid of the guy, but he does deserve criticism for not delivering as of yet. He's a striker. Strikers score goals or should at least contribute to the offensive numbers. He hasn't done either. Yes he does other things very well, but none of that is translating into actual offensive numbers. This team needs goals. We are are not scoring enough. We lost 1-0 and for all his hard work, we didn't score. This team has only scored 5 goals this year and three of them are from 1 guy...At this moment in time Gilberto is a part of this problem, not the whole problem but definitely a major factor.

Let's not Chad Barrett this guy and chastise him at every turn that goes wrong for TFC, but let's not Chad Barrett this guy and protect him like he is gods gift to strikers who do everything else but score goals.

This is the same stance I have speaking about Danny Wellback. Here you have a striker who doesn't score as often as he should. Sure he does other things very well on the pitch, but he's a striker. He is paid to score, if he isn't scoring, put someone else out there who will.

[Yohan]

Thousands of scouts from all over the world are in Brazil on any given day, and nobody else picked up this guy except us???
http://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2013/12/13/toronto_fc_makes_gilberto_signing_official.html

Gilberto apparently turned down teams from Mexico and Germany

[Lumpy]

I agree with both these posts.
Remember that you are comparing an inexperienced 24 year old to 30 year old veterans.
With that being said, According to what I'm reading on this page from others, It could take him over a full season to adapt depending on his situation.

This is where my problem lies with the arguments being made that it's a midfield issue.
If this guy hasn't figured out how to adapt to this situation, I see this as a player development issue.
Reality of MLS and this team in particular is that he will need to figure out how to excel in less than perfect conditions.

I'm not saying we get rid of the guy, but he does deserve criticism for not delivering as of yet. He's a striker. Strikers score goals or should at least contribute to the offensive numbers. He hasn't done either. Yes he does other things very well, but none of that is translating into actual offensive numbers. This team needs goals. We are are not scoring enough. We lost 1-0 and for all his hard work, we didn't score. This team has only scored 5 goals this year and three of them are from 1 guy...At this moment in time Gilberto is a part of this problem, not the whole problem but definitely a major factor.

Let's not Chad Barrett this guy and chastise him at every turn that goes wrong for TFC, but let's not Chad Barrett this guy and protect him like he is gods gift to strikers who do everything else but score goals.

This is the same stance I have speaking about Danny Wellback. Here you have a striker who doesn't score as often as he should. Sure he does other things very well on the pitch, but he's a striker. He is paid to score, if he isn't scoring, put someone else out there who will.

We are near bottom of the league in shots and shots on goal. The ball is not getting to our strikers. I could agree with your argument if tons of chances are being squandered by our strikers but that is not happening. With the exception of Osorio sending Defoe a beautiful through ball I have a hard time remembering many instances where I thought what a wonderful play by our midfielders. Bradley has sent a few great balls through as well but that's it. We can have the best strikers in the world but if they don't get the ball or don't get it in a useable position we won't score much.

[C.Ronaldo]

Agree with the Hall statement...However I don't think Jackson and Issey were that bad. I wouldn't say worst in the league. Mid level for sure.
As for Bekker - He was the backbone of that midfield on the weekend. Doesn't say much - I mean he managed the game decently - good enough for a 0-0 draw IMO, maybe even a 1-0 win. Don't think the loss was deserved.

As a whole unit - I would say this group are lower mid MLS level. Hall really brings down the quality because of his lack of everything. He makes very poor decisions in there. Add Bradley to this mix and both Bekker and Issey are solid options. One criticism I have for both is their off the ball positioning. With the ball they do some nice things, including moving forward IMO. Off the ball they were all over the place. running into each other numerous times.

Which brings us back on topic and the positioning of the strikers last game.

For whatever reason both decided to play deep and close to their defenders. They weren't very good at making space for themselves and opening up the final 3rd of the pitch. Numerous times I saw tons of open space between the ball carrier who was outside the 18 yard back and the closest striker. They can move in one direction - forward - really only left the crossing option available for those ball carriers.

I can understand if one guy does it, but when both do it, it really leaves no options moving forward. Both strikers are left static pressed up against a defender with no space to move once they do get the ball.


BINGO!

I was perplexed aswell.

Why was the old man making runs along with Gilberto.

Dero plays shallow, receives pass from bekker....gets creative and finds Gilberto. (or switch Gilberto with dero) Not sure why this was employed.

It wasn't working, and Nelson refused to change it.

[Laurignano]

I think one of the biggest issues for Gilberto is the tactics that we were playing with last weekend. I can tell Gilberto, if given the ball more, would have the ability to do good things and create chances (i.e. pass from Bradley when he helped create the goal for Defoe). Tactically, I would have dropped him deeper, possibly even as an attacking mid, to let him get more of the ball and give him a chance to run with it and create. Put DeRo up top on his own and shifted to a 4-5-1 formation with Bekker and Hall in the centre.

He looked frustrated in his post game interview and to be honest I don’t blame him. He was not getting the ball enough in places where he could potentially do some damage. Also, Bekker is not to blame completely for the lack of balls forward. Nelson had him playing deep in the mid-field and Hall as more the “advanced” mid fielder. When Bekker got the ball, his options where to:

1) Long ball it
2) Pass to Hall and hope he will get it to the strikers
3) Play to wings or backwards

If you coach tells you to hold onto the ball and keep possession (which I believe where his instructions based on how he was playing), which option would you use? The real issue with our midfield was not having a suitable midfield partner to play option #2 to play up to the strikers. If Bekker was in a more advanced midfield position (as the attacking midfield), then I believe Gilberto would have got significantly better service – BUT who would have said that Bekker would have even got the ball with Hall being the distributor? This is why it is key to have Bekker partnered up with a midfielder who he can use as an outlet to launch the attack or be that outlet with someone capable of playing him the ball to do so.

[Yohan]

Gilberto is frustrated because he's not getting enough his chances or supply, but he probably thinks he's not been able to showcase his stuff to people back home and Big Phil, who is watching Cesar's games.

[kodiakTFC]

I think once you see a healthy team, Gilberto is going to become incredibly dangerous. I figure he scores 12-14 this year.

[trane]

I am sorry I have to question who cannot see Gilberto's quality. He has tons of it. He is a complete real number 9. He has good size, good skills, good strength, good pace, great vision and reading of his game for this league. I am not going to even debate this.
AND despite not having scored, he has a quick trigger and sees opportunities.

HOWEVER, he is a striker and he will have to score, and I was very disapointed, that he failed to score on Saturday, as it was on him, and in that game he failed. But I continue to believe that he will score many for us. AND if he does not score, particularly when he is on his own, then he will be a failure despite all the other qualities I see in him. But five games in its a bit early to give up on him.

[Phil]

I am sorry I have to question who cannot see Gilberto's quality. He has tons of it. He is a complete real number 9. He has good size, good skills, good strength, good pace, great vision and reading of his game for this league. I am not going to even debate this.
AND despite not having scored, he has a quick trigger and sees opportunities.

HOWEVER, he is a striker and he will have to score, and I was very disapointed, that he failed to score on Saturday, as it was on him, and in that game he failed. But I continue to believe that he will score many for us. AND if he does not score, particularly when he is on his own, then he will be a failure despite all the other qualities I see in him. But five games in its a bit early to give up on him.

I agree.

At the risk of making excuses for him, I don't think the other players know how to deliver service to him yet - and that may become a problem for him. Issy, Jackson, Rey, Bradley and Osorio are the guys I will be looking too. I have heard he is still not 100% yet and missing pre season has an impact on the chemistry.

Once he gets more time with the guys and that *first one* I expect the confidence level to rise.

[tfcleeds]

Count me as another who's a bit perplexed as to why he's coming in for so much criticism just 5 games into the season. I like what I've seen so far from him. I have a feeling once the first goes in, the floodgates could potentially open.

[trane]

phil and tfcleeds

Agreed.

[trane]

By the way what do you call a striker with all the qualities to be a good one but who cannot put one in the net to save his life??????


.......Torres.

[ryan]

Count me as another who's a bit perplexed as to why he's coming in for so much criticism just 5 games into the season. I like what I've seen so far from him. I have a feeling once the first goes in, the floodgates could potentially open.

I'm not perplexed by it at all, as I've said before this is the state of the Toronto sports fan.

Don't think this reaction is warranted though, some very overly dramatic statements being thrown around.

As some have pointed out, the service he's seen hasn't been all that frequent or of much quality. Improve the opportunities and the goals will come. I'd wager quite a bit on that happening.

[brad]

Don't forget it is perfectly normal for South American's coming to the MLS to take a decent amount of time to settle.

[gate7]

oh and don't forget he's making 5.7 mil less than Defoe......id be more concerned with when our 6.5mil is gonna get healthy

[ExiledRed]

By the way what do you call a striker with all the qualities to be a good one but who cannot put one in the net to save his life??????


.......Torres.


Chadlo Virret

[InDa_110]

Maybe as a Catholic he gave up scoring for Lent which ends today. He will score tomorrow

[Cashcleaner]

^ I like your line of thinking. Hmmmmm....

[Eastend]

Maybe as a Catholic he gave up scoring for Lent which ends today. He will score tomorrow

bahahaha...then he'll feel guilty about it.

Dom