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TFC07
04-01-2014, 10:06 PM
Seattle vs. TFC on TSN - 299,000
(Source: http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=447241)

TFC vs. DC on TSN - 352,000 (Highest TV ratings for MLS game on English Canadian network)
(Source: http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=447241)

RSL vs TFC on TSN2 - 74,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-opening-dud-costs-jays-210515088.html)

CLB vs TFC on Sportsnet 360 - 53,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-blue-jays-bounce-back-214616633.html#more-id)

TFC vs COL on TSN - 101,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-tiger-free-masters-turns-152835170.html)

DAL vs TFC on Sportsnet One - 35,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-scores-big-raptors-230401936.html)

Game Seven: ?

TFC vs NYRB on TSN - 91,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-schedule-does-cbc-191146373.html )

Sporting Kansas City vs TFC on TSN - Less than 114,000 (no official # out there besides knowing TFC didn't get more than 114,000 viewers)

(source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-audiences-heat-along-blue-181535982.html )

TFC vs CLB on TSN - 97,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-cup-final-could-still-193344933.html)

TFC vs SJ on TSN - 109,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-mls-not-sharing-world-210645854.html )

RBNY vs. TFC on Sportsnet One - ?

TFC07
04-01-2014, 10:07 PM
So far, TV ratings have been great for TFC. Hopefully TFC can keep this up for whole season.

Pookie
04-02-2014, 05:26 AM
Honestly, the 74,000 would be unexpected if this Defoe show was sustainable. Team was 2-0 against one of the league's best.

Even the high ratings games would have an asterisk. The 299,000 for the opener an 352,000 record are just a few thousand more than the previous record.

For all the bloody big deal stuff, if it were true and sustainable you'd expect much higher ratings. And you certainly wouldn't expect a huge dip in Game 3 when the team is undefeated.

Growing interest in the team is great. The players deserve it. Don't think it will ever be the bloody big deal in Toronto that they are telling us it will be.

OgtheDim
04-02-2014, 06:19 AM
...

And you certainly wouldn't expect a huge dip in Game 3 when the team is undefeated.

...

TSN2

ensco
04-02-2014, 06:26 AM
74K is a piddling number, given the setup. You'd have thought a few more casuals than that would have switched over post Leafs.

The self-congratulatory TSN story is total BS. The numbers on CBC were often this high or higher. McCartney can confirm, he used to post this stuff all the time.

The 2007 team did 500K on CBC on a Sat afternoon in May that year against DCU (the first game after the Dichio goal, on Victoria day weekend). I remember writing about that then, that the potential was massive. I have since changed my view.

Leiweke's victory laps in the press feeling awfully premature to me too.

Abou Sky
04-02-2014, 06:52 AM
Those numbers are hard to compare because many people don't have cable much anymore.

To mess with your heads a bit...

This guy makes Minecraft videos for YouTube, he makes one a day and gets over 300k views to almost all of them (some have near 2m)

TRAYAURUS TAKES OVER THE WORLD!: http://youtu.be/wBdvEdWx2iU

It's about how media is consumed.

brad
04-02-2014, 07:13 AM
TSN2

^^This.

I also wonder if the 9:30Pm kickoff had an effect as well. I'm not sure, but you would have to think that when you have a large demo in their 20's that that a lot of that demo is going to be out for the evening at that time, and not sitting at home watching TFC)

Brooker
04-02-2014, 07:29 AM
Exactly. 930 Saturday Night on TSN2... pfft it was never going to be a big number.

Pookie
04-02-2014, 08:16 AM
Cue the excuses. TSN 2 (NASCAR did over 200k on TSN 2 that same weekend) or Saturday night (never mind the huge Leaf audience that simply turned off their TVs as that game finished rather than watching TFC).

Nothing wrong with being a small market team. Accept it.

Canary10
04-02-2014, 08:26 AM
Also it was Real Salt Lake. To a casual viewer, that's a team in no man's land with a goofy name.

Pookie
04-02-2014, 08:29 AM
Didn't think of that one.

RSL vs TFC wouldn't attract our new casual fan base that will fill the 30,000 seat stadium night in and night out but won't watch it on TV.

Got it.

BTW isn't TSN2 on a free preview until May?

prizby
04-02-2014, 08:40 AM
Didn't think of that one.

RSL vs TFC wouldn't attract our new casual fan base that will fill the 30,000 seat stadium night in and night out but won't watch it on TV.

Got it.

BTW isn't TSN2 on a free preview until May?

I know tons of people who do not get TSN2; as for free preview, wouldn't know ... no one advertised that it was to me, so if it was, doubt many would know

Canary10
04-02-2014, 08:42 AM
Didn't think of that one.

RSL vs TFC wouldn't attract our new casual fan base that will fill the 30,000 seat stadium night in and night out but won't watch it on TV.

Got it.

BTW isn't TSN2 on a free preview until May?

Actually, I think you'd find that most soccer fans would rather see it live than watch it on television. (And btw, that was really a joke about Real Salt Lake).

brad
04-02-2014, 08:44 AM
Can't compare what the Leafs draw compared to what we do. Completely different situations.

Also, yes - a lot of people do turn off their TV's on a Saturday night after the Leafs play. When I was in my 20's (not that long ago :)), heading over to someone's place to watching the Leafs game and have some drinks before going out for the night was common place (most people I knew did that). I wouldn't expect a lot of that crowd to stay in instead and watch a TFC game.

So I do think the two factors affected viewership, and if it had been a CBC/TSN game on Saturday afternoon that numbers would have been higher.

That said, i also think that the numbers for the first two games were inflated and not what I would expect to see on a regular basis.

Pookie
04-02-2014, 08:44 AM
^ I know. Double sarcasm doesn't translate well :)

As for TSN2, free or not. More people would rather watch cars make left turns on it than football.

Canary10
04-02-2014, 08:46 AM
^ I know. Double sarcasm doesn't translate well :)

As for TSN2, free or not. More people would rather watch cars make left turns on it than football.

^ AH, got it.

ag futbol
04-02-2014, 08:49 AM
I'm not terribly surprised. Game one and game two had massive lead-ins and larger than normal pre-game advertising across the board. Game three they simply didn't follow through and went head-to-head with late season NHL Saturday night games with playoff implications, of course they got crushed.

If, they handle the promotion side properly and consistently, along with a viewing schedule and network choices that make sense, they will make gains.

brad
04-02-2014, 08:53 AM
Actually, I think you'd find that most soccer fans would rather see it live than watch it on television. (And btw, that was really a joke about Real Salt Lake).

This used to be the case - our stadium would be full every game, but viewership for away games was poor.

IMHO, we have a similar situation to the first couple of years. A lot of match going SSH's that are being drawn to the event and not directly to the team. No different than the first couple of seasons, except that the focal point has shifted from the supporters to the DP's.

Personally, I know a couple people that jumped on the SSH bandwagon when Defoe arrived that didn't bother to watch the RSL game - they fit that mold.

Canary10
04-02-2014, 09:03 AM
This used to be the case - our stadium would be full every game, but viewership for away games was poor.

IMHO, we have a similar situation to the first couple of years. A lot of match going SSH's that are being drawn to the event and not directly to the team. No different than the first couple of seasons, except that the focal point has shifted from the supporters to the DP's.

Personally, I know a couple people that jumped on the SSH bandwagon when Defoe arrived that didn't bother to watch the RSL game - they fit that mold.

Yeah, same with me.

Part of the problem is that MLS is still pretty dire to watch on tv in comparison to other soccer on television. Why watch MLS when you can watch EPL? At least going to the games is a bit of an event itself.

TFC07
04-02-2014, 09:15 AM
Yeah, same with me.

Part of the problem is that MLS is still pretty dire to watch on tv in comparison to other soccer on television. Why watch MLS when you can watch EPL? At least going to the games is a bit of an event itself.

Funny you mention that because EPL games get better ratings than MLS in English Canada despite playing in the morning time. So it tells me that soccer audience is there and MLS needs to do a better job attracting those audience to watch MLS games. If they can accomplish that, then we can average a healthy 200,000-300,000 before trying to attract average sports fan in this country.

However, if we compare Canadian MLS ratings on TSN to American MLS ratings on ESPN per capita, then MLS is a lot more popular in Canada than US.

Sweeper
04-02-2014, 09:21 AM
If only we could track people watching online, though I guess that isn't a source of revenue. Like we don't pay enough for tv, let alone paying extra to watch our local team on TSN 2 or Sportsnet 1.

Lumpy
04-02-2014, 09:47 AM
Including the Salt Lake game average TFC viewership on television is almost double the viewership of EPL games.(see below). Its also interesting to note
" the fact that 1.6 million viewers tuned in for some or all of the game, meaning the hype surrounding the ne'er-do-well club's off-season spending spree has attracted some attention" (D.C. game). Watching a soccer game from Salt Lake City on a Saturday night at 930 on a channel that only subscribers who pay for a top tier cable package could receive was not going to happen for many people. This weekend's game will be a similar scenario as it is on SN360. The next game that is on TSN is the Colorado game at 4pm April 12th. This will be a good measure of the viewership as it is on at a reasonable time and not on a hard to get channel. TSN2 is not on a free preview as far as Rogers is concerned. I think its premature to diminish the gain in viewership of TFC games based upon one game on a small audience channel . The Columbus game will also have a lower viewership for the same reason.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-tsn-racks-records-curling-193028914.html

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-opening-dud-costs-jays-210515088.html

Fort York Redcoat
04-02-2014, 10:01 AM
^ I know. Double sarcasm doesn't translate well :)

As for TSN2, free or not. More people would rather watch cars make left turns on it than football.

Come on now, they also prefer to watch frozen shuffleboard as well...g:D

ryan
04-02-2014, 10:13 AM
Come on now, they also prefer to watch frozen shuffleboard as well...g:D

I like watching curling dammit. :(

Canary10
04-02-2014, 10:19 AM
Including the Salt Lake game average TFC viewership on television is almost double the viewership of EPL games.(see below). Its also interesting to note
" the fact that 1.6 million viewers tuned in for some or all of the game, meaning the hype surrounding the ne'er-do-well club's off-season spending spree has attracted some attention" (D.C. game). Watching a soccer game from Salt Lake City on a Saturday night at 930 on a channel that only subscribers who pay for a top tier cable package could receive was not going to happen for many people. This weekend's game will be a similar scenario as it is on SN360. The next game that is on TSN is the Colorado game at 4pm April 12th. This will be a good measure of the viewership as it is on at a reasonable time and not on a hard to get channel. TSN2 is not on a free preview as far as Rogers is concerned. I think its premature to diminish the gain in viewership of TFC games based upon one game on a small audience channel . The Columbus game will also have a lower viewership for the same reason.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-tsn-racks-records-curling-193028914.html

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-opening-dud-costs-jays-210515088.html

That's interesting. By memory I could have sworn EPL audiences are usually in the 300s or so. Might be because they are split amongst a bunch of games playing at the same time? With the games the article sites, Chelsea-Arsenal was an 8:45 am game. The Liverpool-Cardiff one was one of three or four broadcast at the same time. I think Man City and Everton games were also on then.

mowe
04-02-2014, 10:37 AM
TFC has the best TV ratings in MLS.

Think of TSN2 (and SN360 and SN1) as the local TV partners and TSN as the national carrier. So far, the games on TSN match or exceed US national TV ratings. The first game of the season SEA-SKC got 330k viewers on NBCSN. In 2013, games on ESPN averaged 220k and ~110k on NBCSN (pathetic, I know). 2012 was MLS' best ever year for ratings, ESPN averaged 311k and NBCSN 125k.

Local TV ratings are much worse. In 2012, Seattle—which I believe has the highest local ratings—averaged 45k and 33k on their two local affiliates. NYRB had 25-30k viewers. 9:30-11:30 pm on a Saturday is a terrible time slot, so a significant drop in viewers for the RSL game was expected. But even if 74k is the average for non-TSN broadcasts, we're still well above league average.

It's embarrassing really how bad ratings are in the States. I'm not at all surprised NBC is dropping coverage next year. In contrast, the ratings in Canada are great. Unlike the US, more people actually watch MLS than EPL. I'm really interested to see how what the ratings will be for Vancouver this year. They have every game on TSN/TSN2 except one on CTV BC the rest of the season. It should do wonders for building an audience.

Sources:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/are-more-people-watching-mls-in-person-or-on-television/
http://thebiglead.com/2013/11/12/mls-tv-ratings-are-lower-than-the-wnbas-can-the-league-do-anything-to-improve-them/
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2012/11/28/Media/MLS.aspx

brad
04-02-2014, 10:40 AM
That's interesting. By memory I could have sworn EPL audiences are usually in the 300s or so. Might be because they are split amongst a bunch of games playing at the same time? With the games the article sites, Chelsea-Arsenal was an 8:45 am game. The Liverpool-Cardiff one was one of three or four broadcast at the same time. I think Man City and Everton games were also on then.

This - plus you have expensive specialty channels thrown in the mix which probably plays a role as well.

Yohan
04-02-2014, 10:47 AM
TFC has the best TV ratings in MLS.

Think of TSN2 (and SN360 and SN1) as the local TV partners and TSN as the national carrier. So far, the games on TSN match or exceed US national TV ratings. The first game of the season SEA-SKC got 330k viewers on NBCSN. In 2013, games on ESPN averaged 220k and ~110k on NBCSN (pathetic, I know). 2012 was MLS' best ever year for ratings, ESPN averaged 311k and NBCSN 125k.

Local TV ratings are much worse. In 2012, Seattle—which I believe has the highest local ratings—averaged 45k and 33k on their two local affiliates. NYRB had 25-30k viewers. 9:30-11:30 pm on a Saturday is a terrible time slot, so a significant drop in viewers for the RSL game was expected. But even if 74k is the average for non-TSN broadcasts, we're still well above league average.

It's embarrassing really how bad ratings are in the States. I'm not at all surprised NBC is dropping coverage next year. In contrast, the ratings in Canada are great. Unlike the US, more people actually watch MLS than EPL. I'm really interested to see how what the ratings will be for Vancouver this year. They have every game on TSN/TSN2 except one on CTV BC the rest of the season. It should do wonders for building an audience.

Sources:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/are-more-people-watching-mls-in-person-or-on-television/
http://thebiglead.com/2013/11/12/mls-tv-ratings-are-lower-than-the-wnbas-can-the-league-do-anything-to-improve-them/
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2012/11/28/Media/MLS.aspx
I think NBC would like to keep MLS, it's just Fox outbid by huge amount

C.Ronaldo
04-02-2014, 10:48 AM
Game one: Seattle vs. TFC on TSN - 299,000
(Source: http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=447241)

Game two: TFC vs. DC on TSN - 352,000 (Highest TV ratings for MLS game on English Canadian network)
(Source: http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=447241)

Game three: RSL vs TFC on TSN2 - 74,000
(Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-opening-dud-costs-jays-210515088.html)


wonder what MLS Live ratings were

brad
04-02-2014, 11:50 AM
wonder what MLS Live ratings were

Seattle was blacked out on MLS live in Canada and the US

Initial B
04-02-2014, 11:55 AM
Seattle was blacked out on MLS live in Canada and the US
You can thank the deal the KKKrew front office made with their local cable provider for that. :facepalm:

OgtheDim
04-02-2014, 12:09 PM
You can thank the deal the KKKrew front office made with their local cable provider for that. :facepalm:

The national broadcast black out has been place for a few years.

Blizzard
04-02-2014, 08:59 PM
I like watching curling dammit. :(

Me too!

C.Ronaldo
04-03-2014, 10:10 AM
why cant MLS live just show the national broadcast feed.

would NBC still be getting the ad revenue? MLS live can even give them their cut of subscription revenue.


to me, internet services are the future...... being held back by cable companies. everyone under 35 watches something on the internet

TFC07
04-03-2014, 10:20 AM
why cant MLS live just show the national broadcast feed.

would NBC still be getting the ad revenue? MLS live can even give them their cut of subscription revenue.


to me, internet services are the future...... being held back by cable companies. everyone under 35 watches something on the internet

Agreed.

I would love to know how many people watch TFC games online (either on their computers or phones). Ad revenue online can be huge as it is on TV if online presence is there.

Commie Red
04-03-2014, 11:22 AM
Yeah, same with me.

Part of the problem is that MLS is still pretty dire to watch on tv in comparison to other soccer on television. Why watch MLS when you can watch EPL? At least going to the games is a bit of an event itself.

The TFC game was also competing against a re-broadcast of the Manchester United - Aston Villa game on TSN1 at the time. Which also accounts for some football fans who might have access to both stations -- and might have watched MLS instead of another program (but not instead of EPL football).

Odd programming decision on the part of TSN. Why not show the live football game on TSN and the replay of the game on TSN2? Especially, that is, if they want to generate some long term interest in the product.

C.Ronaldo
04-03-2014, 12:43 PM
The TFC game was also competing against a re-broadcast of the Manchester United - Aston Villa game on TSN1 at the time. Which also accounts for some football fans who might have access to both stations -- and might have watched MLS instead of another program (but not instead of EPL football).

Odd programming decision on the part of TSN. Why not show the live football game on TSN and the replay of the game on TSN2? Especially, that is, if they want to generate some long term interest in the product.

tsn isnt making the investment. MLSE needs to call up the board to have them call back down to TSN

Pookie
04-03-2014, 01:16 PM
The TFC game was also competing against a re-broadcast of the Manchester United - Aston Villa game on TSN1 at the time. Which also accounts for some football fans who might have access to both stations -- and might have watched MLS instead of another program (but not instead of EPL football).

Odd programming decision on the part of TSN. Why not show the live football game on TSN and the replay of the game on TSN2? Especially, that is, if they want to generate some long term interest in the product.

Supply and demand?

Honestly, if the Tim L hype show is to be believed showing a Live TFC game would make a lot more sense than a re-broadcast of an EPL game. I obviously don't make programming decisions but that may say everything that needs to be said about the popularity of MLS soccer in this market.

Again, this isn't a knock on TFC. I've followed this team since day 1 from live streams of preseason to the mystical world of GolTV in Standard Definition broadcasts. Toronto, IMO, likes the big leagues and MLS has this perception of being a minor league. For that reason, Defoe or not (to) Defoe, it will always find itself within the 2nd tier of sports along with the Rock, Marlies, and to some extent the Raptors until they become relevant. As long as they show the games, I'm happy.

Doucet3
04-03-2014, 02:07 PM
Exactly. 930 Saturday Night on TSN2... pfft it was never going to be a big number. This…most of the casual fans are already getting ready to if not are already out drinking. i had a feeling that the ratings would slip a lot with all the above factored in, the TSN 2 and 930 KO i think was the major hit to the ratings

ensco
04-03-2014, 03:43 PM
I agree with most of the Saturday night commentary. I would have thought they'd do better, but really, who knows?

It's the big hoopla around the numbers for the first two games that I'm feeling is unwarranted. As someone said, the game against Colorado on the 12th will be a good litmus test.

TFC07
04-03-2014, 03:57 PM
Again, this isn't a knock on TFC. I've followed this team since day 1 from live streams of preseason to the mystical world of GolTV in Standard Definition broadcasts. Toronto, IMO, likes the big leagues and MLS has this perception of being a minor league. For that reason, Defoe or not (to) Defoe, it will always find itself within the 2nd tier of sports along with the Rock, Marlies, and to some extent the Raptors until they become relevant. As long as they show the games, I'm happy.

I don't think the whole "big town, big league" argument holds true outside of hardcore sports fan in this city. If you can sell being at BMO field to watch soccer is a cool thing to do, then you wouldn't have problem attracting your average Torontonian to go to the games. We saw this first few seasons and now we're starting to see it again.

TV ratings so far has proven we getting some attention! Montreal or Vancouver can't say the same despite being playoff teams recently. Winning TFC is great for TV ratings for TSN and if we continue winning consistently then eventually TV ratings become much better and respectable.

Pookie
04-03-2014, 04:57 PM
But you are talking about marginal ratings increases. One of which was a home opener.

Check the sportscasts. Jermain Defoe's injury was reported on one radio station as the last item before they cut out. On one station, it wasn't in the cycle at all. I know as I was driving home trying to get an update.

TFC isn't a big deal in Toronto.

I agree you will get casual fans to go based on some trendy "event hype." TFC has never been able to convert that into viewership. Many issues related to games shown on The Score or now TSN 2 reflect this. If no one wants to pay for the broadcast rights that's what you get. No one wants to pay because other events are in bigger demand.

I am not sure why this is important to some people. We all want the team to do well but this is a MLS problem. How many of us actually watch MLS games that don't involve TFC? How many watch playoff games that obviously haven't involved TFC?

Just as there are EPL fans that snub their noses at TFC/MLS there is a subset of TFC fans that snub their noses at CCL. All of that is reflected in the attendance and as we see here the TV ratings.

TFC07
04-03-2014, 05:04 PM
But you are talking about marginal ratings increases. One of which was a home opener.

Check the sportscasts. Jermain Defoe's injury was reported on one radio station as the last item before they cut out. On one station, it wasn't in the cycle at all. I know as I was driving home trying to get an update.

TFC isn't a big deal in Toronto.

I agree you will get casual fans to go based on some trendy "event hype." TFC has never been able to convert that into viewership. Many issues related to games shown on The Score or now TSN 2 reflect this. If no one wants to pay for the broadcast rights that's what you get. No one wants to pay because other events are in bigger demand.

I am not sure why this is important to some people. We all want the team to do well but this is an MLS problem. How many of us actually watch MLS games that don't involve TFC? How many watch playoff games that obviously haven't involved TFC?

Just as there are EPL fans that snub their noses at TFC/MLS there is a subset of TFC fans that snub their noses at CCL. All of that is reflected in the attendance and as we see here the TV ratings.

People still listen to radio and watch sports highlights on TV? I know on social media, it was reported by media outlets like CP24 and theScore.

I personally like many younger generation get our news from social media.

TV ratings broke MLS record in English Canadian TV. TFC first two games had better ratings than MLS playoff game involving Canadian teams. That's why we should be glad that interest is there despite lack of success on-field since day 1 for TFC. This is great news and shows TFC isn't dying like some people have been saying over the years.

Pookie
04-03-2014, 05:22 PM
If one gets their sports info from social media while driving one also gets a big fine.

And the moment I prefer watching a game on my 3" phone over my 56" HD TV , please have my power of attorney start the proceedings to make basic decisions for me. Google it if that reference doesn't make sense.

As for Broke a record, ensco mentioned something about 500,000 for CBC but one reference I found was 301,000 in 2007 for TFC vs LA on CBC. Breaking? More like scratching.

TFC07
04-03-2014, 06:49 PM
If one gets their sports info from social media while driving one also gets a big fine.

And the moment I prefer watching a game on my 3" phone over my 56" HD TV , please have my power of attorney start the proceedings to make basic decisions for me. Google it if that reference doesn't make sense.

As for Broke a record, ensco mentioned something about 500,000 for CBC but one reference I found was 301,000 in 2007 for TFC vs LA on CBC. Breaking? More like scratching.

You said you didn't hear much news about it which I said it isn't true based on social media. I do watch games on TV (I still have cable for now), but there's a lot of people out there who don't have cable and find it cheaper to watch it online on their laptop and phones than paying $100 plus to watch TFC play on TSN2. There's a reason why a lot of people are getting rid of cable these days. Even if they wanted to watch it on their big screen TV, then they can hook up their laptops to TV.

I can't find any source that backs up 500K viewers number either. So I am not going to be believe it unless proven otherwise.

Pookie
04-03-2014, 06:58 PM
You said you didn't hear much news about it which I said it isn't true based on social media.

My point is that the mainstream media does not cover it, even though they essentially own it.

A twitter announcement is just like a "ticker" on the bottom of TSN… which I hate too BTW… it gets lost and you have to look to find it. To say TFC is covered in social media is sort of like saying TFC is covered on the Internet.

SoccMan2
04-03-2014, 07:08 PM
All I have to say is that many people in the media did not think an MLS team could survive in Toronto and many like the Dave Perkins and Bob McCowan's of the world were saying that an MLS team in Toronto would be lucky to get 3000 a game. Therefore, TFC might not be a big deal in Toronto however, to see the crowds this team has had since day one is amazing considering what some of the soccer haters in the media were predicting for this team. Remember, the Raptors who get so much more media attention still don't get great TV numbers, moreover, Raptor TV numbers are not that much more than TFC numbers, with all the media attention the Raptors get and the fact they play in the best league in the world their TV numbers should be much much more than what TFC gets. I think that all things considered TFC does ok TV numbers .

brad
04-03-2014, 07:18 PM
Let's pick this conversation up after another 10 games and see what the ratings are like then.

Defoe's first game and the home opener were "events". Just like the LAG game in the CCL was an "event". That game showed us that TFC could draw 60k for a game which was hyped, but they couldn't draw 20k for the rest of the season.

brad
04-03-2014, 07:23 PM
And here is a bit about the younger generation and streaming. Once that generation grows up a little bit and starts to have a bit of disposable income - dodging porn popups to watch a low bitrate stream on their 50 inch TV starts to become less appealing than forking over a bit of cash to watch a high definition stream (or cable).

That's why I kept my cable as long as I did. It wasn't until I could get legit, high quality steaming services (which I am paying for) that I ditched my cable.

Brooker
04-04-2014, 03:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOAUly3E4cE

TFC07
04-08-2014, 06:39 PM
Worse rating this season so far!


Raptors fans have been complaining about the number of games carried on channels like TSN2 and Sportsnet One, which don't have wide distribution. The lesser channels tend to drag down ratings -- Toronto FC's win over Columbus drew a paltry 53,000 viewers on Sportsnet360 Saturday.

Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-blue-jays-bounce-back-214616633.html#more-id

Going up against Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays hurt the ratings big time especially playing away against Columbus without Defoe on lesser channel

OgtheDim
04-08-2014, 07:01 PM
How are those numbers compared to things other then Jays/Leafs games on Sportsnet 360?

mowe
04-08-2014, 07:04 PM
Not surprising, there was a lot of competition that game. Next week should be the real test: home game, on TSN, with no other Toronto teams playing. 300k+ would be nice.

TFC07
04-08-2014, 07:12 PM
How are those numbers compared to things other then Jays/Leafs games on Sportsnet 360?

Leafs never play on Sportsnet 360 or Sportsnet One.

Only Blue jays game on Sportsnet 360 was that exhibition game in Montreal, but I am not sure what kind of ratings they got though.

TFC07
04-08-2014, 07:14 PM
Not surprising, there was a lot of competition that game. Next week should be the real test: home game, on TSN, with no other Toronto teams playing. 300k+ would be nice.

This is time of the year where all major sports teams in Toronto are playing. So it's going to be a dogfight to get decent ratings until NHL & NBA playoffs are over.

Pookie
04-09-2014, 06:25 AM
Why do you guys feel the need to make excuses?

If Sportsnet One or 360 is in fact a buried channel, that tells you about the demand for MLS soccer. From one of the blogs you posted: Raptors vs Thunder on Sportnet One did 178,000.

It didn't matter to me whether I had fellow fans watching when games were on GolTV. So why the need for excuses? There will always be competitive interests. The fall/winter bring hockey and the NFL. Spring/summer bring hockey playoffs (outside of Toronto) and baseball and football. Every weekend there is golf or NASCAR or simply nice weather.

TFC draws flies. Always has. Maybe always will. And that's ok.

OgtheDim
04-09-2014, 06:34 AM
Why do you guys feel the need to make excuses?
...

One person's excuse is another's persons fine reasoning. :)

Its called discussion. The fact that people disagree is part of life on the internet.


Ever since TSN started, (back when it wasn't available to most Canadians) the discussion of how many people watch specific sports has been surrounded by the limits of access. Its not an excuse - its a talking point.

Pookie
04-09-2014, 07:18 AM
This thread stats out with "record" attendance. Folks point to the resurgence of TFC. Popularity of MLS soccer and the like.

Ratings drop. Apparently that is due to competiting weekend games and the unfortunate luck of being shown on obscure channels that no one watches (except for NASCAR and NBA fans who can seem to find their team).

The hype that surrounds this team isn't real, IMO, it is manufactured. Ratings and programming decisions back that up. Coverage on sportscasts backs that up. This, despite being owned by the major networks.

It is the way it is. MLS is not a big deal in Toronto. Or other major markets like LA or New York. There the team struggles against top flight leagues and the perception of being minor league.

Soccer is huge in Toronto. More kids play it than hockey. MLS? Not so much.

It's ok though. I just don't get why people want it to be the bloody big deal they were told it is?

mowe
04-09-2014, 07:35 AM
The fact is one TFC game drew 352 thousand viewers (or flies if you prefer) and two weeks later a game drew 53 thousand. The drop could be attributed to a slowdown of the hype machine, the channel carrying the game, what other programming it was up against etc. I personally am really interested in this kind of stuff so it's fun to talk about.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what the ratings are for the Colorado game. I consider games on TSN to be the true national broadcasts to compare with NBCSN in the States. Seattle-Portland got around 250k I believe.

prizby
04-09-2014, 08:01 AM
Why do you guys feel the need to make excuses?

If Sportsnet One or 360 is in fact a buried channel, that tells you about the demand for MLS soccer. From one of the blogs you posted: Raptors vs Thunder on Sportnet One did 178,000.

It didn't matter to me whether I had fellow fans watching when games were on GolTV. So why the need for excuses? There will always be competitive interests. The fall/winter bring hockey and the NFL. Spring/summer bring hockey playoffs (outside of Toronto) and baseball and football. Every weekend there is golf or NASCAR or simply nice weather.

TFC draws flies. Always has. Maybe always will. And that's ok.

read doug smith's blog where he complains about the Raptors being on TSN2/SN1...points out how many people DONT have these channels

Phil
04-09-2014, 08:17 AM
As a cable subscriber in Toronto I find the biggest issue is that Bell are total idiots about carrying Sportsnet channels and Rogers are total idiots about the TSN channels.

In both cases you need to select monster sports add ons to get all the selections, you can't just pick up two or three channels. That is what really curbs access to the TSN2's and Sportnetone's.

Pookie
04-09-2014, 09:25 AM
The fact is one TFC game drew 352 thousand viewers (or flies if you prefer) and two weeks later a game drew 53 thousand. The drop could be attributed to a slowdown of the hype machine, the channel carrying the game, what other programming it was up against etc. I personally am really interested in this kind of stuff so it's fun to talk about.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what the ratings are for the Colorado game. I consider games on TSN to be the true national broadcasts to compare with NBCSN in the States. Seattle-Portland got around 250k I believe.

352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team ;) )

The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.

I don't see that as bad. Supporting TFC (or the National Team, which also draws flies) has been the most fun I have had at any live sporting event. I have been fortunate enough to see the Leafs in the playoffs live and I am talking fun games when they were actually winning too. I'd still take a CCL game or road trip or cold opener or warm july evening over any of those.

I don't mind if TFC is a well kept secret. I really don't care as long as they show the games somewhere.

C.Ronaldo
04-09-2014, 10:19 AM
352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team ;) )

The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.

I don't see that as bad. Supporting TFC (or the National Team, which also draws flies) has been the most fun I have had at any live sporting event. I have been fortunate enough to see the Leafs in the playoffs live and I am talking fun games when they were actually winning too. I'd still take a CCL game or road trip or cold opener or warm july evening over any of those.

I don't mind if TFC is a well kept secret. I really don't care as long as they show the games somewhere.


somewhere is better than everywhere. ALL games on MLS live would be better than the scatter shit they pull

The reason eevryone is looking to the internet, XBMC, websites, online streams. its the only way.

mowe
04-09-2014, 11:12 AM
352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team ;) )

The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.

352k is pretty significant for an MLS team that started up in 2007. The Jays averaged 650k in 2013, and 540k in 2012. Leafs games on Sportsnet average 700k. The Raptors are in the mid-to-high-200s since their resurgence this season.

The point about burying TFC is an interesting one. Bell puts a lot of resources into marketing and production value, they have 14 TFC games on TSN vs 9 on TSN2, and so far their TSN ratings have been great (again, let's see how this weekend plays out). Rogers on the other hand have all games on SN360 and SN1 and soccer clearly isn't a priority for them, which isn't changing anytime soon.

MLS clearly has a long way to go to break into the mainstream in Canada, but what they've done so far is impressive. Especially considering that outside of the GTA and maybe a small audience in Vancouver and Montreal, no one knows anything about TFC. There's a lot of room to grow.

Pookie
04-09-2014, 11:37 AM
352k is pretty significant for an MLS team that started up in 2007. The Jays averaged 650k in 2013, and 540k in 2012. Leafs games on Sportsnet average 700k. The Raptors are in the mid-to-high-200s since their resurgence this season.

Perhaps but in 2007 they did 301k on CBC. The growth is marginal.



The point about burying TFC is an interesting one. Bell puts a lot of resources into marketing and production value, they have 14 TFC games on TSN vs 9 on TSN2, and so far their TSN ratings have been great (again, let's see how this weekend plays out). Rogers on the other hand have all games on SN360 and SN1 and soccer clearly isn't a priority for them, which isn't changing anytime soon.

I'm interested to see that too. If they can beat the numbers CBC used to do, that would be good. That said, you'd expect a sports channel to do better than CBC as they can promote the games in their "news" shows and online content.

My point about TSN2 or Sportsnet360 or One is simply that many here say that's the reason the numbers are low. I absolutely think there is validity to that. Yet over a 100,000 more Raptors fans managed to find their team's game on those same channels. To me, doing a 70k or a 50k vs the Raptors doing 178k on the same channel shows you the relative interest from the mainstream market in MLS and specifically TFC.



MLS clearly has a long way to go to break into the mainstream in Canada, but what they've done so far is impressive. Especially considering that outside of the GTA and maybe a small audience in Vancouver and Montreal, no one knows anything about TFC. There's a lot of room to grow.

Agreed. It will take more than a couple of signings to change that. Ideally it will grow and Canadians will ultimately become motivated to support their National team.

Kaz
04-09-2014, 12:00 PM
The problem with TSN over CBC is simple... nearly every household in Canada gets CBC most in HD for free if they want. TSN HD TSN2 HD and SN HD is $100 a month. I refuse to pay that...

C.Ronaldo
04-09-2014, 01:28 PM
The problem with TSN over CBC is simple... nearly every household in Canada gets CBC most in HD for free if they want. TSN HD TSN2 HD and SN HD is $100 a month. I refuse to pay that...

amen, preaching to the choir!

Pookie
04-14-2014, 10:54 AM
What's the guess on Saturday's ratings v Colorado? 160k?

shwade
04-14-2014, 11:51 AM
What's the guess on Saturday's ratings v Colorado? 160k?

Prob dropped down dramatically after ppl realized it was just hoofball all game.

mowe
04-15-2014, 11:29 AM
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-tiger-free-masters-turns-152835170.html

Big drop in viewers with only 101k watching the Colorado game. For comparison Vancouver at LA got 122k and Liverpool-City got 228k.

Pookie
04-15-2014, 11:36 AM
I guessed high.

Let's discuss.

This game was on TSN, not TSN 2 or TSN 8 "The Ocho" (copyright "Dodgeball"). It was on Saturday afternoon. The team has a winning record.

Vancouver vs LA on TSN later that night drew 122,000. Vancouver market is about 1/3 that of Ontario. Everton v Sunderland on Sportsnet drew slightly less than TFC at 81,000.

The hype machine might need a little tweaking.

brad
04-15-2014, 11:55 AM
I'm guessing that the home debut of Defoe and Bradley was an "event" that people tuned in for and did not represent the real draw of the team.

It's possible that knowing that Defoe and/or Bradley were out also affected numbers, but I would be very surprised if that was a significant amount (if at all). If that is true, it would say a lot about what the draw of the team is.

OgtheDim
04-15-2014, 11:59 AM
I'll take 100K.

Pookie
04-15-2014, 12:47 PM
I'll take 100K.

We've always had 100k.

I'm sure they didn't spend millions to stay the same.

TFC07
04-15-2014, 10:41 PM
I guessed high.

Let's discuss.

This game was on TSN, not TSN 2 or TSN 8 "The Ocho" (copyright "Dodgeball"). It was on Saturday afternoon. The team has a winning record.

Vancouver vs LA on TSN later that night drew 122,000. Vancouver market is about 1/3 that of Ontario. Everton v Sunderland on Sportsnet drew slightly less than TFC at 81,000.

The hype machine might need a little tweaking.

EPL games always get great ratings despite playing during morning (Canadian) time. That Everton v Sunderland isn't high profile game like Man City-Liverpool game, so no one shouldn't be surprised that they only got 86K viewers.

Vancouver rating might have to do with Canucks being out of playoffs. So all attention is on Whitecaps until BC Lions season starts. Also, they were playing against LA Galaxy (most popular MLS team)

GBV
04-15-2014, 10:53 PM
I guessed high.

Let's discuss.

This game was on TSN, not TSN 2 or TSN 8 "The Ocho" (copyright "Dodgeball"). It was on Saturday afternoon. The team has a winning record.

Vancouver vs LA on TSN later that night drew 122,000. Vancouver market is about 1/3 that of Ontario. Everton v Sunderland on Sportsnet drew slightly less than TFC at 81,000.

The hype machine might need a little tweaking.

No Defoe, Bradley, was a rather nice day to be outside -- for once -- and a non-sexy opponent as far as general public goes.

Sure would be nice to see somewhat consistent start times some day. I think there are more different start times than games on any given MLS Saturday. Next Toronto Saturday home games are 1 p.m., then 4:30 p.m., then 5 p.m., then 4 p.m., then 7 p.m. Gah.

But yeah, I think when "the bigs" come back and (hopefully) start popping in some goals, it'll improve.

East York
04-20-2014, 07:24 PM
352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team ;) )

The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.

I don't see that as bad. Supporting TFC (or the National Team, which also draws flies) has been the most fun I have had at any live sporting event. I have been fortunate enough to see the Leafs in the playoffs live and I am talking fun games when they were actually winning too. I'd still take a CCL game or road trip or cold opener or warm july evening over any of those.

I don't mind if TFC is a well kept secret. I really don't care as long as they show the games somewhere.

The fluctuation in TV numbers for TFC is always concerning. Say what you want about the Jays and Argos, but their TV numbers generally don"t fluctuate that much and if they do there is usually a reason, ie holiday weekend etc. TV. Advertiser need to be shown that same audience is there every game. Until MLS can show consistent solid TV numbers, week in and week out, they will always be the poor cousin when it comes to TV deals and pro okie the Argos average a 1.6 share in just the GTA, which puts them usually second in the Toronto market for TV ratings in the GTA during that time period that their game is on.

Hamilton_Red
04-20-2014, 08:03 PM
TfC should be able to double or triple tv viewing figures with a successful play-off run.

shwade
04-20-2014, 09:33 PM
Our ugly style of play certainly isn't going to attract new viewers on tv.

ag futbol
04-20-2014, 09:55 PM
If any team in MLS started to attract a steady TV audience, I'd be interested to know. Bradley as Defoe or not, the league simply hasn't been a viewing success.

It's still mostly a niche offering where people like the live entertainment option. Will probably stay that way until some more of the quality gap between MLS and the top leagues disappears.

Pookie
04-21-2014, 07:33 AM
I wonder if networks actually like to broadcast soccer. Or more to the point their advertisers?

With all the time outs and changes in play, MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL allow you to put in a lot of commercials. Too many as far as I am concerned but that's another debate.

Soccer is straight action for 45+ mins, a break and then another 45+. Advertisers get lumped into the halftime. Can't be too appealing.

Question 2, with these low ratings does a 30,000 seat sold out stadium still seem realistic?

Kaz
04-21-2014, 09:14 AM
I wonder if networks actually like to broadcast soccer. Or more to the point their advertisers?

With all the time outs and changes in play, MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL allow you to put in a lot of commercials. Too many as far as I am concerned but that's another debate.

Soccer is straight action for 45+ mins, a break and then another 45+. Advertisers get lumped into the halftime. Can't be too appealing.

Question 2, with these low ratings does a 30,000 seat sold out stadium still seem realistic?

Ratings and going to the game are not related in the way you are making it out.

My father has been to one game, if he had time or it was easier (niagara) he'd go to more. He has started watching it on TV a little. His biggest complaint is that TV broadcasts just don't do the game justice, watching it live (at Skydome for the CCL Quarterfinal game) he said it was all the runs being made by other players that he loved. TV coverage gets in so close you don't see any of it, or not as well.

Granted he watches more for me. He didn't watch this Saturday because it was at 8:30pm. He was out with his wife.

More so EPL is still a higher level of Football. I'm sure the NHL gets better TV rating in Finland then the Finnish League does. We have to accept that.

Pookie
04-21-2014, 09:23 AM
I do agree in that the live experience is significantly better.

What I am wondering though is what the actual market for TFC really is. If roughly 8-10k more tickets are to be sold (according to Tim L), where are these fans going to come from?

brad
04-21-2014, 10:36 AM
^^Viability of a 30k sellout is going to depend largely on success of the team IMHO. If the team is doing well, people will come. If not, they won't.

Prices will also play a role in the future once they start going up. So will quality of the games.

i don't think (and have never thought) that big name DP's will directly convert into attendance. They convert into hype around SSH sales times which drives additional purchases. They convert into short term demand - it's hard to argue that seeing Defoe was a major driver at the home opener. But it 6 months time (or even 2 or 3), I just don't see people buying tickets in droves just to see Defoe.

C.Ronaldo
04-21-2014, 10:44 AM
football money is made from jerseys, sponsorships, rights, etc..
There is TV ad money but I cant imagine it be as much as NFLs non stop commercials

brad
04-21-2014, 10:55 AM
football money is made from jerseys, sponsorships, rights, etc..
There is TV ad money but I cant imagine it be as much as NFLs non stop commercials

When you are owned by Bell and Rogers, there is also other, much larger avenues for profit utilizing the MLSE teams to drive profit into their other lines (IE cell phone contracts, data plans, ect).

Kaz
04-21-2014, 11:57 AM
I do agree in that the live experience is significantly better.

What I am wondering though is what the actual market for TFC really is. If roughly 8-10k more tickets are to be sold (according to Tim L), where are these fans going to come from?

it really is a matter of how good the product is.

If they are up around the top of the standings and a regular play off team then I can see it.

The first 5 years or so, you could have sold out that stadium at 30,000 seats it was not easy to get tickets I didn't even try until 2009.

But it won't sell out every game. There is nothing wrong with that.

Here is what I've seen.

IF we can't sell it out, it's a failure.
If our ratings aren't the highest in the world it's bush league
If we don't have a roof it's bush league.
If it's not the right roof it's bush league
The fans aren't the right kind of fans so it's bush league
We haven't spent enough money.
We have spent too much money.
We haven't spent the money right.
We need to win no matter what the game looks like
We aren't playing pretty football.
We aren't playing fast enough.
We don't have enough skill
We have too much skill but they can't handle the league.


No matter what happens people are going to complain.

(Pookie I'm not calling you out, it's the board in general)

I don't understand it.. the only thing TFC fans seem to regularly support is the team is a failure no matter what happens.

I'm not happy with Gilberto's performance, however we are still third in the east after playing the top teams in the league in our first 6 games.

It was a tough tough start and we didn't do horrible. The Injuries just shows we aren't a super club. (Which is fine I don't have to do a spit take, which I'm happy and sad about)

Pookie
04-23-2014, 09:30 PM
Ratings for the Dallas game are in.

35,000

Ouch.

Chris Zelkovich, who publishes the ratings in his blog wrote:

While the Raptors are showing promise, their soccer brethren aren't faring so well on television. In what has to be a major embarrassment, the team's game against Dallas on Saturday drew the interest of only 35,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.

Granted, Saturday night during the hockey playoffs is never good for ratings and Sportsnet One doesn't have the widest distribution. But 35,000 is the kind of audience you'd expect for lumberjack competitions

This is not what MLSE envisioned when it paid out all those millions for star players.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-scores-big-raptors-230401936.html

ensco
04-23-2014, 09:38 PM
^There is no business model that supports the Defoe/Bradley signings, we should enjoy every second they are here, because if/when a bean counter gets the reins, they will be taken from us in a nanosecond.

mowe
04-23-2014, 09:46 PM
For comparison Seattle drew about 45k viewers for their last game against Chivas, which was just under their highest rated match ever on local TV. Seattle has the highest local TV ratings in MLS.

prizby
04-23-2014, 09:59 PM
Ratings for the Dallas game are in.

35,000

Ouch.

Chris Zelkovich, who publishes the ratings in his blog wrote:

While the Raptors are showing promise, their soccer brethren aren't faring so well on television. In what has to be a major embarrassment, the team's game against Dallas on Saturday drew the interest of only 35,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.

Granted, Saturday night during the hockey playoffs is never good for ratings and Sportsnet One doesn't have the widest distribution. But 35,000 is the kind of audience you'd expect for lumberjack competitions

This is not what MLSE envisioned when it paid out all those millions for star players.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-scores-big-raptors-230401936.html

Relagated to sportsnetone with 0 advertising of the game being on tv...I remember the lead up to the Seattle and the DC United game; there were many reminders on TSN that the game was on tv...this has not been the case for the 4 games afterwards

Pookie
04-24-2014, 06:11 AM
^ all valid points. Fact is though they did bury it. They didn't promote it. Even games on main networks aren't drawing after the initial interest.

As ensco says, this expensive band aid is going to come off. MLS just isn't accepted as a top league and TFC is not the big deal it was hyped to be amongst your typical sports fan.

ensco
04-24-2014, 07:26 AM
The Raptors did 610K on Tuesday night (peaking at 1.6M for last few minutes). That is damn impressive. Raps - Heat would pull in the millions.

brad
04-24-2014, 07:42 AM
Ratings for the Dallas game are in.

35,000

Ouch.

Chris Zelkovich, who publishes the ratings in his blog wrote:

While the Raptors are showing promise, their soccer brethren aren't faring so well on television. In what has to be a major embarrassment, the team's game against Dallas on Saturday drew the interest of only 35,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.

Granted, Saturday night during the hockey playoffs is never good for ratings and Sportsnet One doesn't have the widest distribution. But 35,000 is the kind of audience you'd expect for lumberjack competitions

This is not what MLSE envisioned when it paid out all those millions for star players.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-scores-big-raptors-230401936.html

Sportsnet One is an expensive specialty channel. I believe I was paying around $20/month for that one channel when I cancelled cable last fall. That is going to have a dramatic effect on ratings.

EDIT: I think I am wrong here - they lost me with all of their re-branding. Whcich Sportsnet channel is the ~ $20/month soccer focused one? Is that SN One? If not - I retract my comment - that viewership sucks. :)

brad
04-24-2014, 07:49 AM
Anyway, regardless of actual channel, I still stand by what I have said many times.

The DP's directly created short term hype which helped to drive ticket sales and turned the first couple of games into "events" which drove interest up. After people saw "show", interest went back down to it's normal level.

If the team starts winning, the draw will go up.

If the entertainment value of the football goes up, the draw will go up. Lets face it, TFC is not exactly playing the type of football that is going to bring the less committed audience back to their TV's over and over.

TFC07
04-24-2014, 07:49 AM
TFC playing away against low profile team on minor channel on Saturday night is recipe for disaster. It only will get worst when the weather gets better.

However, million dollar signings weren't made for TV ratings, it was made to make TFC a competitive team. Winning TFC brings viewers and money to MLSE not Bradley or even Defoe (he isn't that popular despite what people here believe).

Pint
04-24-2014, 10:15 AM
Brad your thinking of Sportsnet World I believe.

Burried channel on the saturday night of the easter weekend with no advertising and playoff hockey and Basketball on and they are wondering why ratings were not better?

OgtheDim
04-24-2014, 10:43 AM
Brad your thinking of Sportsnet World I believe.

Burried channel on the saturday night of the easter weekend with no advertising and playoff hockey and Basketball on and they are wondering why ratings were not better?


Zelkovich is wondering....but his job is to find stuff like this and make it into a story. With only one Canadian team in the playoffs, the sport media beat takes a bit more work this year.

Pookie
04-24-2014, 01:33 PM
Brad your thinking of Sportsnet World I believe.

Burried channel on the saturday night of the easter weekend with no advertising and playoff hockey and Basketball on and they are wondering why ratings were not better?

Correct, it used to be Setanta then Sportsnet World.

As for wondering, I don't think anyone is wondering. Seems like Zelkovich is making a point that Lumberjack Challenges could draw the same and it's hard to argue. Outside of the first game or so, ratings have been pretty bad… even when on the main network. Even the record breaking stuff was a marginal increase.

It doesn't change anything for me. I bought GolTV in SD to see the team back in the day. Any TV coverage is an improvement. It does cast a curious eye as to how much of a financial stomach the "bean counters" have for million dollar payrolls with limited ROI.

Redcoe15
04-24-2014, 06:02 PM
Does anyone think TFC may benefit starting next year once Rogers starts broadcasting their exclusive NHL telecasts, leaving TSN to promote and broadcast MLS games?

Pookie
04-24-2014, 06:24 PM
Does anyone think TFC may benefit starting next year once Rogers starts broadcasting their exclusive NHL telecasts, leaving TSN to promote and broadcast MLS games?

I don't know. There is very little overlap. NHL season goes from October to April (for the Leafs). If they play afternoon games, there should be no conflicts at all.

TSN has the CFL which on average draws double the highest ever TFC game. I suspect they will put their efforts into that.

MLS has to become mainstream before it will be widely accepted. Rogers and Bell have a stake in TFC yet has anyone noticed any more coverage on their "news" shows like Connected or Sportscentre?

Even when Toronto hosted the MLS Cup, the commissioner was concerned about attendance. The CFL sells out Grey Cups here @ the Rogers Centre. It is just a bigger bloody deal.

The mainstream sports market just doesn't care about the MLS.

I am afraid Defoe will be long gone before widespread acceptance ever happens, if it ever happens. It is a shame though as it really is one of the best "entertainment values" in this market.

Kaz
04-24-2014, 06:38 PM
Can we stop the Sky is Falling.. like seriously... Pookie we get you hate every decision the team makes and everything that happens is a sign the team is failing.. go away now.

Thomas
04-24-2014, 06:44 PM
Incessant doom and gloom, peppered with many statistics. When we win, we don't hear much from these folks.

Pookie
04-24-2014, 06:44 PM
Sorry but what decision did the team make that I hate that has anything at all to do with TV ratings?

Thomas
04-24-2014, 08:05 PM
My mistake. In the many other threads.

Pookie
04-25-2014, 04:13 PM
Hey Kaz before sounding the alarm about the sky, everything they do isn't a sign they are failing.

In fact they aren't. In your drive to Pollyanna everything perhaps you are missing the nuance of what a fan who has lost trust has to share.

Good:

- hiring Tim B
- spending money on a band aid set of DPs to slightly improve the team before the domestic core can be improved. And at least 2 are younger and likely to play games throughout the bulk of their contract
- stock piling draft picks for 2015
- Nelsen's contact list. Seemingly respected guy

Bad

- selling me on fixed when it is just a band aid
- future ticket price increases needed to pay for the choice of band aid and jacking up north end seats by 19% since 2012 as a start
- Jetting younger DP to make room for injured, ticket selling DP
- blaming injuries for performance when they lose
- expecting forgiveness for 7 years by trotting out Defoe
- claiming the Academy is the future. Selling kids on that and then cutting player after player over the years
- Argos and their desire for corporate welfare

So see, it's not all sky is falling but I sure as hell aren't going to give them a pass on the bad stuff. They want to be accountable so I am happy to oblige them.


In any event, on the topic of the TV ratings, why so defensive? Why do you care if others watch with you? So what if it isn't the "bloody big deal" for the average sports fan?

As a TFC fan we are now watching all games in HD. That's a positive step forward. As long as they don't pre-empt games for those lumberjack challenges, I am happy.

Thomas
04-25-2014, 04:26 PM
Are you actually a TFC fan? Band aid DPs? I don't think our team is fantastic or even great right now, but
chill out a bit, the season is just getting underway.

Super
04-25-2014, 04:54 PM
Defoe is a top 3 striker in this league. Definitely not a band aid DP. He's a brilliant signing. Cost = Eckersley.

backbeat
04-25-2014, 05:08 PM
Hey Kaz before sounding the alarm about the sky, everything they do isn't a sign they are failing.

In fact they aren't. In your drive to Pollyanna everything perhaps you are missing the nuance of what a fan who has lost trust has to share.

Good:

- hiring Tim B
- spending money on a band aid set of DPs to slightly improve the team before the domestic core can be improved. And at least 2 are younger and likely to play games throughout the bulk of their contract
- stock piling draft picks for 2015
- Nelsen's contact list. Seemingly respected guy

Bad

- selling me on fixed when it is just a band aid
- future ticket price increases needed to pay for the choice of band aid and jacking up north end seats by 19% since 2012 as a start
- Jetting younger DP to make room for injured, ticket selling DP
- blaming injuries for performance when they lose
- expecting forgiveness for 7 years by trotting out Defoe
- claiming the Academy is the future. Selling kids on that and then cutting player after player over the years
- Argos and their desire for corporate welfare

So see, it's not all sky is falling but I sure as hell aren't going to give them a pass on the bad stuff. They want to be accountable so I am happy to oblige them.


In any event, on the topic of the TV ratings, why so defensive? Why do you care if others watch with you? So what if it isn't the "bloody big deal" for the average sports fan?

As a TFC fan we are now watching all games in HD. That's a positive step forward. As long as they don't pre-empt games for those lumberjack challenges, I am happy.


you're just making this stuff up.

they've never said TFC is fixed in the way you're implying - in fact Tim L clearly said they haven't done anything yet and had to prove it on the pitch - he's stated that repeatedly
they never 'jetted' a young DP for an injured one - rather Tim B very cleverly will get Laba back or a fistful of dollars - well done!!
i have yet to hear Nelsen blame injuries for performance - not once
there is no expectation for forgiveness in 'trotting out' Defoe - again as stated above Tim L clearly repeating that they hadn't done anything yet - they had to prove it by a play-off season and continued improvement on the pitch

they're just 6 games into the season - let's have this discussion after 14 games....

pdubs
04-25-2014, 05:43 PM
the only time I have heard Tim L say anything about being fixed was his recent comment on Prime Time Sports. However the context of the discussion was about having the right people (ie management in TFC, Raptors, Leafs) in place, which I largely agree with in regards to Tim B. Coaches/managers come and go frequently but in Tim B we have a great direction going forward for years to come. With regards to the team, Tim L has been clear.. we haven't won anything yet.

Pookie
04-25-2014, 05:57 PM
they never 'jetted' a young DP for an injured one - rather Tim B very cleverly will get Laba back or a fistful of dollars - well done!!

Who said anything about Laba? Urutti was moved last season after Payne got the boot as Tim L needed to make room for a DP that was going to be bigger than Koevermans.


i have yet to hear Nelsen blame injuries for performance - not once

No? First, I didn't specify Nelsen. But hey just for fun…

Check this Article… wait for the title, you'll love it… "Injuries to Blame" on the official website (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2014/04/injuries-blame)

With these six games, I would have taken [nine points] straight away,” Nelsen said. “With the injury crisis that we’ve had, that we didn’t even think was going to happen, I’d take it.”

Clearly, the club… through its' official website… is blaming injuries.



there is no expectation for forgiveness in 'trotting out' Defoe

Really? I have email in my inbox days after the signings that goes something like this: "I wanted to reach out in light of yesterday’s announcement about the addition of Jermain Defoe and Michael Bradley to the TFC roster. I noticed that you haven’t renewed your seats yet…"

I then have more emails and a note from the club, assuming it was a bulk email asking if "I'm sure that I don't want back in?" This was after 2 games - 2 wins. That followed call after call by the club (about 6 that I remember) asking me if I was familiar with the offseason moves and whether I was sure that I didn't want to renew.

Renewals campaign was clearly based on Defoe, including the timing. To each his own with respect to forgiveness.


they're just 6 games into the season - let's have this discussion after 14 games....

Sure. It's been a decent start to the season. No where in any place have I said that they haven't had a decent start. It's the second best start in club history (next to the 2008 Carver campaign). That's been fun. You don't think beating Columbus in Columbus isn't a highlight thus far for me? That was a good night.

Pookie
04-25-2014, 06:02 PM
Defoe is a top 3 striker in this league. Definitely not a band aid DP. He's a brilliant signing. Cost = Eckersley.

11 players on the pitch. Defoe is just 1.

To have a roster like SKC, RSL or other top perennial contenders requires more than just Defoe, Bradley and Gilberto.

Pookie
04-25-2014, 06:21 PM
the only time I have heard Tim L say anything about being fixed was his recent comment on Prime Time Sports. However the context of the discussion was about having the right people (ie management in TFC, Raptors, Leafs) in place, which I largely agree with in regards to Tim B. Coaches/managers come and go frequently but in Tim B we have a great direction going forward for years to come. With regards to the team, Tim L has been clear.. we haven't won anything yet.


Maybe this is semantics but to say that they have to get "all 3 franchises going and they are 2 out of 3 and unfortunately have work to do on the one that matters most (Leafs)", sort of implies "fixed" no?

This is the interview you referred to:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/ (34 mins in)

Super
04-25-2014, 06:22 PM
11 players on the pitch. Defoe is just 1.

To have a roster like SKC, RSL or other top perennial contenders requires more than just Defoe, Bradley and Gilberto.

No one disputes that. I certainly don't see this team as "mission accomplished" at all - but I do see it as an incredible improvement over the last couple of years. 9 points in 6 games with 4 tough away games out of the way. I'll take it. And I think there's potential for this team to get really good in the long-term, too. Really good.

GuelphStorm2007
04-25-2014, 11:34 PM
35000 Sun TV would pray for numbers like that.

Pookie
05-08-2014, 06:02 AM
Chris Zelkovich's ratings report is in https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-canadian-content-winner-cbc-235203528.html

Unsure what our numbers were vs New England. TFC didn't crack the top 17 most watched sports on English TV. Means less than 100k.

Most watched soccer last weekend was Man U vs Sunderland at 148,000.

Hopefully they get a bump against NYRB and Henry.

One has to hope that the spending massive cash plan didn't hinge on boosting interest in content. These are dismal.

Fort York Redcoat
05-08-2014, 07:41 AM
Hopefully they get a bump against NYRB and Henry.

One has to hope that the spending massive cash plan didn't hinge on boosting interest in content. These are dismal.


Dismal compared to other Vcup ratings? Or Dismal compared to big bad curling ratings?

Pookie
05-08-2014, 08:26 AM
Dismal compared to other Vcup ratings? Or Dismal compared to big bad curling ratings?

Don't know about the VCup. Chris' blog is from the weekend so the MLS match involving New England.

I'd say dismal compared to interest in soccer in general. Certainly on par with Lumberjack Challenges though. ;)

Pookie
05-21-2014, 03:20 PM
New York Game ratings are in. Game was shown on TSN (Main Network).

More than 3 times as many people watched NASCAR on TSN 2.

91,000

From Chris Zelkovich's blog:
"Saturday afternoons are also reserved for the likes of Toronto FC, which continues to be one of least-watched teams in the country. The high-priced soccer team's game on Saturday afternoon was viewed by only 91,000 -- a recent trend that has to have those who control the money faucets at MLSE more than a little worried..."

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-schedule-does-cbc-191146373.html

Villa TFC
05-21-2014, 03:52 PM
Anyone care to take a stab at viewership for the Sporting KC match? On the positive side, it is on the main TSN network. On the negative it's at 8:30pm on a Friday. Can't see it being over 35,000.

BeachTory
05-21-2014, 04:10 PM
Have a look at this article in trade journal Sports business Daily

Ratings corelate to every metric cited in the article. Recall the Tim L. Said his ambition included being the first MLS club to reach $50M in revenue



Toronto FC Sees Spike In Ticket Sales, Ratings After Blockbuster Offseason Signings


By Adam Stern, Staff Writer


Published May 21, 2014




Fans returned to the club in droves after the signings of Bradley (r) and Defoe (l)
Since signing star players Jermain Defoe and Michael Bradley in January, Toronto FC has seen such considerable upticks in business metrics that it is on track to be MLS’ top grossing club by next season, says MLSE Chief Commercial Officer Dave Hopkinson. The club has yet to make the playoffs eight seasons into its existence and, after a string of lackluster campaigns, had nowhere to go but up. Still, fans returned in droves when MLSE President & CEO Tim Leiweke recruited the players after stints in Europe. Before the signings, only 62% of the team’s season-ticket holders indicated that they intended to renew for ’14 -- a figure Hopkinson called “cataclysmic” and described as the lowest he had seen in his 22-year career as a sports exec. After the signings, however, the club grew the renewal rate to 95%, which was a franchise high and led the league this offseason. The club also sold more than 3,500 new seats, leading MLS in new sales. Season-ticket sales at BMO Field were capped at 17,000 and the waiting list for season tickets is currently at 1,800 -- the first time the club had a waiting list of any kind in four years. With an average of 22,591, the club has increased attendance this season by 18%, the second-best figure in MLS. Hopkinson said every home game this season will be sold out. These figures help comprise a laundry list of positive trends that seemed unlikely before the signings. Hopkinson said MLSE execs at the end of last season were considering whether they were “teetering on the brink of this franchise failing.” While Leiweke in March admitted the club is currently not profitable and will lose money again this year after the $100M outlay on players this offseason, Hopkinson said for now, the signings “just put this enthusiasm back into the club.”




See the Listing for
Toronto FC
UP ACROSS THE BOARD: TFC has seen TV ratings on TSN jump by eight to ten times as much as last year, and its home opener this season was the most-watched MLS game ever in Canada. Elsewhere, sponsorship sales are up 35% year-over-year, with new partners including Unilever (Dove Men+Care, Vaseline, Axe brands), Canadian Tire (also includes Sport Chek, Marks), MasterCard and Cisco. Hopkinson said the new deals have generated "millions of dollars" in new sales since the last campaign. In many merchandise categories, sales are up by percentages that are well into triple figures. For example, sales of crested TFC jerseys -- as opposed to those without player names -- are up 948% from last season, with Defoe jerseys making up the majority. The club also is selling a lot of jerseys for G Julio Caesar, which is atypical in MLS for a goalkeeper. Merch sales at BMO Field are up 175% and merch sales overall are up 125%. Hopkinson said TFC is on pace for its best season yet in the merch category. TFC also is seeing concession sales jump at BMO Field, where beer sales are up 40%. On the digital front, the club since ’13 has tripled its number of followers on Facebook, Twitter and other platforms. TFC also posted a record high in visits to its website last month. Hopkinson: “Everything is taking a material step forward, which had to happen for us to make this investment in the roster that made sense. ... We had to do something pretty dramatic.”

Pookie
05-21-2014, 05:04 PM
They are pulling data from the season home opener which was up about 50k over previous high and ignoring the rest.

Since then it has been a massive tumble.

91,000 vs NY on a Saturday, main network, Henry vs Defoe... that's not good. TFC hasn't been able to convert the blip into sustainable viewership.

Pookie
05-22-2014, 06:25 AM
Anyone care to take a stab at viewership for the Sporting KC match? On the positive side, it is on the main TSN network. On the negative it's at 8:30pm on a Friday. Can't see it being over 35,000.

If they get 35,000 on the main network... I don't think they will be on the main network much longer.

I am going to bet about 75,000.

TFC07
05-22-2014, 02:37 PM
One thing I notice is that early afternoon sport games aren't good for TV ratings. Good example is Montreal Canadien game where their Monday night game had 1.2 million more viewers than their Saturday afternoon game. Also, I notice World Hockey Championship ratings are well below average for typical Canadian national hockey game.

So I wonder TFC playing more games during evening would help their TV numbers.

Pookie
05-22-2014, 02:55 PM
^ We'll see. 8:30 on a Saturday on the main network.

Their big ratings games this year though were in the afternoon. 4:30 for both DC and Seattle.

OgtheDim
05-22-2014, 02:59 PM
As an aside: as part of my job, I am watching a few trends out there vis-a-vis spending and activity.

I'm beginning to believe that the length of our winter without a break, including for us in Toronto no real recovery temperature wise from the large pyschic shock that was the ice storm, is causing Ontarians to do a lot of "I'm going outside" stuff whenever possible. Even if that is just going to the mall, in house activity is not a priority for people who spent a LONG time in the house this winter, without the usual January/February/March thaw.

Not an excuse for poor TV numbers - just an observation.

TFC07
05-22-2014, 03:13 PM
^ We'll see. 8:30 on a Saturday on the main network.

Their big ratings games this year though were in the afternoon. 4:30 for both DC and Seattle.

Don't you mean Friday night game? I don't except huge TV ratings for TFC right away, but I except in the long term if they build their brand and win a lot of games, we will see better and more consistent TV ratings for TFC. Hopefully by then, TSN will put all TFC games on their main network instead of their secondary channel.

TFC have been crap for 7 years which hurt their brand big time which affected their TV ratings and SSH base. Of course, playing in "lesser" league doesn't help either, but if MLS on-field product continues to grow, then we can except more people following TFC too.

Interesting thing is that Canadian TV ratings are better than USA TV ratings when comes to MLS (per capita).

EDIT: I find it odd that our home games usually get better TV ratings than road games. Is this normal for all pro sport team?

TFC07
05-22-2014, 03:17 PM
As an aside: as part of my job, I am watching a few trends out there vis-a-vis spending and activity.

I'm beginning to believe that the length of our winter without a break, including for us in Toronto no real recovery temperature wise from the large pyschic shock that was the ice storm, is causing Ontarians to do a lot of "I'm going outside" stuff whenever possible. Even if that is just going to the mall, in house activity is not a priority for people who spent a LONG time in the house this winters, without the usual January/February/March thaw.

Not an excuse for poor TV numbers - just an observation.

I found myself being more active and being outdoors a lot more this year than past few years. I guess this might be part of reason why TV ratings have dropped a bit for TFC since there are some people just want to take advantage of warm weather.

Pookie
05-22-2014, 03:52 PM
Re: weather.

Ratings for other sports are doing just fine. NASCAR, golf, basketball, even CHL hockey is doing good. Games at night or on afternoons.

If going outside was a factor, it would impact them too wouldn't it?

TFC07
05-22-2014, 04:03 PM
Re: weather.

Ratings for other sports are doing just fine. NASCAR, golf, basketball, even CHL hockey is doing good. Games at night or on afternoons.

If going outside was a factor, it would impact them too.

But what's demographic of people watching those sports? Is it same viewers who watch soccer?

brad
05-22-2014, 04:38 PM
Don't you mean Friday night game? I don't except huge TV ratings for TFC right away, but I except in the long term if they build their brand and win a lot of games, we will see better and more consistent TV ratings for TFC. Hopefully by then, TSN will put all TFC games on their main network instead of their secondary channel.

TFC have been crap for 7 years which hurt their brand big time which affected their TV ratings and SSH base. Of course, playing in "lesser" league doesn't help either, but if MLS on-field product continues to grow, then we can except more people following TFC too.

Interesting thing is that Canadian TV ratings are better than USA TV ratings when comes to MLS (per capita).

EDIT: I find it odd that our home games usually get better TV ratings than road games. Is this normal for all pro sport team?

A few thoughts.

Per capita could be affected population distribution. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver contain a large percentage of all Canadians. I'm wondering if a different distribution in the US plays a role. Or if maybe it's due to really large markets like NYC and LA not caring. Just a guess.

Also - population distribution in Canada will play a role in viewership. People outside of the GTA will generally not care about TFC or Toronto based teams outside of any impact the results might have on their own team. Being that we have 1/5th of Canada's population though, there should, in a healthier market be much better numbers.

Regarding home vs away, I wonder how much that has to do with the channels they are on (home games tend to main networks like CBC or TSN more - I think). Time could play a role - especially for evening games on the west coast. I know in the past the production quality and commentator quality of away games was dreadful compared to local - I know for a fact that drove a lot of folks away (I wonder if some stayed away), as did the half empty, zero atmosphere stadiums a lot of games took place in.

Pookie
05-22-2014, 06:55 PM
I think the US v Canada thing has to do with the broadcast channels.

A couple of years ago if you compared TFC on GolTV (or the Score) with US local broadcasts, I would bet it is similar.

The concerning (and not surprising thing) is that TFC doesn't seem to have a big following. Fans will follow their team and find channels if they are passionate enough. EPL generally draws 150s and those are some crap broadcast times for people with families.

Fans were interested in the first few games. 290s and 350s. They couldn't convert into regular followers

I imagine that a good portion of the initial viewers were former fans that have been turned off since 2007 one way or another. Whether it was being gouged, play on field, management politics, whatever. They have lost trust and though willing to check in from time to time have pretty much moved on. The first few games though, they were curious. Like asking how your ex is doing.

Another subset was probably interested in the hype. Good for a game or two but probably not really coming back. Whether it is a lack of connection to the game or the MLS snob factor, who knows. Casual is casual.

It would be pretty arrogant of MLSE to expect that the most recent spending spree could convert these two groups, particularly the first one, overnight.

defensor
05-26-2014, 01:18 PM
Maybe it's because the way TFC plays is usually pretty boring to watch, for casuals and neutrals. Maybe people tuned at the start for the opener and that with all the hype then got bored.

ManUtd4ever
05-26-2014, 01:23 PM
Maybe it's because the way TFC plays is usually super boring to watch.

Bingo. The numbers for the first couple of games were unprecedented, but I'm not surprised that they have declined steadily ever since.

I love TFC, but from a pure entertainment standpoint, I enjoy watching the Whitecaps games on TSN a lot more.

Nelsen has turned us into the NJ Devils of MLS.

reggie
05-26-2014, 01:34 PM
try watching a 4 hr baseball game,yikes,futbol is not a mainstream sport in NA,TFC has been around only 7 yrs..mlb in Tor 40 yrs.nhl and cfl 100 yrs...it takes time people.

Pookie
05-26-2014, 01:47 PM
^ lots of people do try watching baseball. 740,000 watched the Jays and Rangers last Saturday.

reggie
05-26-2014, 02:03 PM
I wonder what the ave age is..i guess people in sask,man,alberta have nothing better to do.its the perfect tv sport,3 hrs of sport 15 min of action and a break every 10 min to grab a beer bbq a steak or take a dump..

Pookie
05-27-2014, 04:00 PM
Chris' blog is updated but TFC didn't crack the top 16 meaning they drew less than 114k (UFC preliminaries on Sportsnet 360).

TFC07
05-28-2014, 09:08 AM
Chris' blog is updated but TFC didn't crack the top 16 meaning they drew less than 114k (UFC preliminaries on Sportsnet 360).

Looking at numbers, Champions league final did better than World Hockey Championship final (CL had double of viewers). If I was Bell/TSN, I start worrying about content since Sportsnet is getting better TV ratings than TSN these days. TSN better start investing more into their MLS content if they want to stand a chance against Rogers/Sportsnet in the future. Right now, TSN only has CFL and World Juniors as their prime content.

ManUtd4ever
05-28-2014, 09:17 AM
Chris' blog is updated but TFC didn't crack the top 16 meaning they drew less than 114k (UFC preliminaries on Sportsnet 360).

To put the dismal ratings in perspective though, the Raptors were in similar territory early on this past season, when they had a slow start and were playing a brand of basketball that wasn't exactly aesthetically pleasing, thanks to Rudy Gay. After the trade with Sacramento, the Raptors started sharing the ball, playing with intensity, and went on to set a franchise record for regular season wins en route to a division title. In the playoffs, the Raptors demolished previous records for NBA ratings in this country with almost one million viewers.

I believe that if TFC can go on to make the playoffs and play a more exciting brand of football, there is potential in this market to increase their ratings significantly.

TFC07
05-28-2014, 09:19 AM
To put the dismal ratings in perspective though, the Raptors were in similar territory early on this past season, when they had a slow start and were playing a brand of basketball that wasn't exactly aesthetically pleasing, thanks to Rudy Gay. After the trade with Sacramento, the Raptors started sharing the ball, and went on to set a franchise record for regular season wins en route to a division title. In the playoffs, the Raptors demolished previous records for NBA ratings in this country with almost one million viewers.

I believe that if TFC can go on to make the playoffs and play a more exciting brand of football, there is potential in this market to increase their ratings significantly.

Agreed. TFC is playing too defensive that is hurting their brand and TV ratings. Hopefully TL understands this and pressure Nelsen change his tactics or hire someone else to get team play more offensive minded game.

But that being said, TFC is doing better (for most part) than other MLS Canadian teams when comes to ratings.

ryan
05-28-2014, 09:31 AM
To put the dismal ratings in perspective though, the Raptors were in similar territory early on this past season, when they had a slow start and were playing a brand of basketball that wasn't exactly aesthetically pleasing, thanks to Rudy Gay. After the trade with Sacramento, the Raptors started sharing the ball, playing with intensity, and went on to set a franchise record for regular season wins en route to a division title. In the playoffs, the Raptors demolished previous records for NBA ratings in this country with almost one million viewers.

I believe that if TFC can go on to make the playoffs and play a more exciting brand of football, there is potential in this market to increase their ratings significantly.

People aren't going to tune in unless we get results, unless there's a buzz this team is winning and could win it all. (See the current Blue Jays run, all of a sudden there's a sellout for a fuckin Oakland game?)

If TL meddles and gets Nelsen to change his form, for the sake of TV ratings...and it backfires. That would be brutal. Too much risk in that.

We're getting 1.44 PPG (4th), compared to 1.46 (3rd) and 1.5 (2nd). Stay the course. A slight uptick in performance plus catching up in games played, we're sitting 2nd in the table. Once we're positioned well, with the media buzzing and people are tuning in to see what the noise is all about....then you release the hounds because you have more room to take a chance. While we sit 7th in the actual table, it's just not a smart move to make a change for the sake of it. Patience!

ManUtd4ever
05-28-2014, 09:39 AM
People aren't going to tune in unless we get results, unless there's a buzz this team is winning and could win it all. (See the current Blue Jays run, all of a sudden there's a sellout for a fuckin Oakland game?)

If TL meddles and gets Nelsen to change his form, for the sake of TV ratings...and it backfires. That would be brutal. Too much risk in that.

We're getting 1.44 PPG (4th), compared to 1.46 (3rd) and 1.5 (2nd). Stay the course. A slight uptick in performance plus catching up in games played, we're sitting 2nd in the table. Once we're positioned well, with the media buzzing and people are tuning in to see what the noise is all about....then you release the hounds because you have more room to take a chance. While we sit 7th in the actual table, it's just not a smart move to make a change for the sake of it. Patience!

It is somewhat disconcerting that the ratings have significantly declined since the first two games of the season, when a few hundred thousand viewers already tuned in to see what all the fuss was about following a remarkable off season. I suspect that our style of play might have something to do with it.

ryan
05-28-2014, 09:43 AM
It is somewhat disconcerting that the ratings have significantly declined since the first two games of the season, when a few hundred thousand viewers already tuned in to see what all the fuss was about following a remarkable off season. I suspect that our style of play might have something to do with it.

I'm not so sure. We were not boring to watch in Seattle at all. Considering we won, all the reason to tune in, no?

The opener was a disaster due to the pitch tho, that wasn't great viewing for sure. Hard to chirp the style of play with that mess.



I simply think it's going to take far more than we realize to get your standard "NA Sports Fan" to actually DESIRE to watch footie. The World Cup should help stir the pot at least.

Pookie
05-28-2014, 10:54 AM
It is somewhat disconcerting that the ratings have significantly declined since the first two games of the season, when a few hundred thousand viewers already tuned in to see what all the fuss was about following a remarkable off season. I suspect that our style of play might have something to do with it.

At the same time though they dropped off dramatically with a winning record.

I think it's more fundamental then that.

Former season ticket holders or other ticket buyers that were fed up with MLSE over the years… and there are many of them… likely tuned in to see what the big deal was all about. They aren't coming back for the most part. Just casual observers now. They saw the games… figured it was more of the same and have moved on again. Getting their football kick out of EPL or other leagues.

You then have the new wave of season ticket holders that mostly came for the show. Probably some good soccer fans in there too but as a group, they are interested in "being at BMO and experiencing the Atmosphere". You don't get that on TV so they don't watch.

To put the ratings in perspective, they are better than they used to get on The Score and GolTV. It's no where near enough to justify a 3-4x increase in team payroll… if that was part of the equation. And probably not enough to keep them on the main Sportsnet/TSN networks.

Villa TFC
05-28-2014, 11:28 AM
In my humble opinion, there are practically no MLS fans in Canada. We have a few fans of Beckham, Henry, Nesta, Di Vaio, Defoe etc, but barely a handful of MLS fans. We have TFC, Whitecaps and Impact supporters, but a good percentage of them are fans because they enjoy attending the occasional/every game, having a few beers, gathering with friends, sitting/standing outside when the weather is nice etc. Supporters yes, and genuine ones, but I'd bet a good chunk of those who regularly go to BMO don't even bother watching TFC on television (I'm not talking about the people on this board...a lot of us went so far as to watch lousy streams of the Mickey Mouse Cup!).

I think MLS's reputation among the unconverted is worse than TFC's. I have scores of friends who are fifth-generation Canadians yet absolutely qualify as Euro-snobs. They know everything about the Premiership, the Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A - and probably know more about the World Cup than I do - but won't give the MLS a single thought unless they get a free ticket. I have other friend who are new to Canada - from one of the newest significant immigrant groups to Toronto: Latin America - and likewise they're just not interested in MLS unless a big name comes to town (Julio Cesar qualifies for that, Gilberto doesn't).

If TFC was leading the league by a mile, TV ratings would go up but not substantially. I think it's going to take years before significant numbers of people watch TFC/MLS on television in Toronto, or even in Canada. People will race home to watch their beloved Juve, Bayern, Barca or United, but barely have the energy to flick the channel to watch TFC...but they'll all jump at the chance to pop down to BMO for some fun (if the weather's good).

So yes, I think league position plays a part. I think the team's style plays a part. But ultimately, TFC/MLS is competing with the best leagues and teams in the world. Perhaps not head-to-head at the same time, but as the same product, whereas NHL, MLB, NBA is the best league and the best teams in the world. If you like baseball, you'll watch MLB. If you like football, you'll watch La Liga, Serie A or the Prem. It may turn around eventually, but it's going to take a long time.

Initial B
05-28-2014, 11:59 AM
It might not take that long to turn around. The results Team USA pulls out this time around in the WC is crucial to how they're viewed globally. If they make it to the semi-finals (maybe even the finals?) and knock out some UEFA nations in the process, I think europeans will have to take notice. England certainly won't forget.

cmonyoureds
05-28-2014, 03:11 PM
Didn't TSN just get permission to start airing a few more channels? They're gonna have to find content somewhere. I could see them expanding on their rights for EPL and airing more MLS/other leagues in the process. They probably had a look at how many suckers (myself included) were paying $20/month for Sportsnet World and said "we'll have some of that".

I'm not sure how the whole content ownership thing works, but the fact that TSN just hi-jacked NBC's EPL coverage and took it straight to air, pre-game, half time and post-game coverage and all, had to be profitable for them. There'd be literally no production cost for them at all, would there?

OgtheDim
05-28-2014, 03:36 PM
MLS Canadian rights come up in 2015. We'll see then how much the coowners of Mlse value MLS.

MikeM
05-28-2014, 04:20 PM
We're a boring team to watch. I was a TFC fan that came back because of Defoe and Bradley. But we have 35% possession. It's awful to watch. I change the channel and check back in the 80th minute to be honest. I'm a soccer nut. I follow everything in Europe, I mostly still follow the MLS. I know everything about TFC. But the product is unwatchable.

But what's worse is that I've seen it since our inception. 4-4-2 kick and run British style soccer. Garbage.

I'd rather watch Winter's TFC go through its learning curve than watch Defoe and Bradley CHASE THE BALL all game.

Pookie
06-03-2014, 05:15 PM
Ratings update for last week's game vs Columbus on TSN main network is in.

97,000

By comparison, the Whitecaps vs Timbers game on TSN main network on Sunday drew 109,000.

Make your own judgements accordingly.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-cup-final-could-still-193344933.html

TFC07
06-03-2014, 06:39 PM
Ratings update for last week's game vs Columbus on TSN main network is in.

97,000

By comparison, the Whitecaps vs Timbers game on TSN main network on Sunday drew 109,000.

Make your own judgements accordingly.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-cup-final-could-still-193344933.html

And two Canadian MLS games had less viewers than NBA playoffs, MLB (including two american teams playing against each other), Golf and NASCAR. This is bigger concern when there's more Canadians watching two American teams in NBA playoff game than MLS games featuring Canadian teams.

backbeat
06-03-2014, 06:49 PM
And two Canadian MLS games had less viewers than NBA playoffs, MLB (including two american teams playing against each other), Golf and NASCAR. This is bigger concern when there's more Canadians watching two American teams in NBA playoff game than MLS games featuring Canadian teams.

there is still a massive audience for soccer in toronto. the problem is that the vast majority don't believe in the MLS yet - it is that conversion/snobbery that once dented will change the numbers in a big way i think. i have co-workers, friends, acquaintances that pass judgement on MLS quality without ever watching a whole match, let alone attending.

sort of like Canadian/Niagara wine....it used to be crap...started to get better...continues to improve, now gets awards around the globe...but.....

TFC07
06-03-2014, 06:51 PM
there is still a massive audience for soccer in toronto. the problem is that the vast majority don't believe in the MLS yet - it is that conversion/snobbery that once dented will change the numbers in a big way i think. i have co-workers, friends, acquaintances that pass judgement on MLS quality without ever watching a whole match, let alone attending.

sort of like Canadian/Niagara wine....it used to be crap...started to get better...continues to improve, now gets awards around the globe...but.....

This is true. Problem isn't sport, but the league itself. Quality and presenation is still in minor league level despite having some high profile players in the league.

Pookie
06-03-2014, 07:30 PM
there is still a massive audience for soccer in toronto. the problem is that the vast majority don't believe in the MLS yet - it is that conversion/snobbery that once dented will change the numbers in a big way i think. i have co-workers, friends, acquaintances that pass judgement on MLS quality without ever watching a whole match, let alone attending.

sort of like Canadian/Niagara wine....it used to be crap...started to get better...continues to improve, now gets awards around the globe...but.....

Don't doubt it for a second. As captivating as this team has been for all of us, MLS is not a bloody big deal… it's considered minor league in the Ontario sports market.

The big question I have about these ratings is whether it will necessitate a change in direction for our club away from the big name signings.

Ontario has 3x the population of BC. TFC spends nearly 3x more than Vancouver. Yet they draw the same to television. Both teams claim sell outs for home games. Similar twitter followers given market sizes (78k for Toronto, 63k for Vancouver). Etc, etc.

If someone brings a calculator to a Board meeting, the return on investment this year is a hard thing to justify.

TFC07
06-03-2014, 07:47 PM
Don't doubt it for a second. As captivating as this team has been for all of us, MLS is not a bloody big deal… it's considered minor league in the Ontario sports market.

The big question I have about these ratings is whether it will necessitate a change in direction for our club away from the big name signings.

Ontario has 3x the population of BC. TFC spends nearly 3x more than Vancouver. Yet they draw the same to television. Both teams claim sell outs for home games. Similar twitter followers given market sizes (78k for Toronto, 63k for Vancouver). Etc, etc.

If someone brings a calculator to a Board meeting, the return on investment this year is a hard thing to justify.

These signings were more about on-field needs than anything else. If we were to sign to make a big splash in this market, then I highly doubt Gilberto and possibly Bradley would be signed here.

Going to every TFC game this season, there's definitely a lot more people in the stands than last year. So I wouldn't be surprised if TFC is telling the truth regarding attendance. Also, TL claims TFC increased their sponsorship deals by couple of million. So on paper, revenue has increased and I am going assume this year's TV ratings are better than last few years. So TFC is slowly heading right direction, but there's a lot more things they can do to improve their product/brand though.

As for Vancouver, this is only second time they beat us in TV ratings front so I don't think you can give them that much credit. Also their club value isn't that great (based on Forbes) compare to TFC despite being losing team since day one. As an investor, I would rather invest into TFC than Whitecaps despite their "huge" following social media and similar TV numbers.

pdubs
06-03-2014, 08:08 PM
And two Canadian MLS games had less viewers than NBA playoffs, MLB (including two american teams playing against each other), Golf and NASCAR. This is bigger concern when there's more Canadians watching two American teams in NBA playoff game than MLS games featuring Canadian teams.

so we can't beat nascar? oh man… :facepalm:

Pookie
06-03-2014, 08:23 PM
These signings were more about on-field needs than anything else. If we were to sign to make a big splash in this market, then I highly doubt Gilberto and possibly Bradley would be signed here.

Going to every TFC game this season, there's definitely a lot more people in the stands than last year. So I wouldn't be surprised if TFC is telling the truth regarding attendance. Also, TL claims TFC increased their sponsorship deals by couple of million. So on paper, revenue has increased and I am going assume this year's TV ratings are better than last few years. So TFC is slowly heading right direction, but there's a lot more things they can do to improve their product/brand though.

As for Vancouver, this is only second time they beat us in TV ratings front so I don't think you can give them that much credit. Also their club value isn't that great (based on Forbes) compare to TFC despite being losing team since day one. As an investor, I would rather invest into TFC than Whitecaps despite their "huge" following social media and similar TV numbers.

The issue isn't so much who is winning in the Vancouver vs TFC popularity contest. It's that they have a population base that is less than 3x that of Ontario, spend much less and generate more interest per capita.

That said, we are talking about peanuts vs walnuts in terms of the TV landscape. CFL will draw 6x that number.

Still. If the signings were approved on the backs of increased popularity of the team, the Vancouver model shows that you can draw the same amount of fans to the stadium and to the TV at a spend that is about 1/3 of what it currently is.

I'm actually ok with it. As it would mean that the team would have to develop solid football players to compete vs opening a wallet and would have no excuse to jack up prices. All this "Toronto fans deserve big names" stuff is malarky as far as I'm concerned. Just build a solid organization, that's what we deserve.

Dunkers
06-04-2014, 01:23 AM
The issue isn't so much who is winning in the Vancouver vs TFC popularity contest. It's that they have a population base that is less than 3x that of Ontario, spend much less and generate more interest per capita.

That said, we are talking about peanuts vs walnuts in terms of the TV landscape. CFL will draw 6x that number.

Still. If the signings were approved on the backs of increased popularity of the team, the Vancouver model shows that you can draw the same amount of fans to the stadium and to the TV at a spend that is about 1/3 of what it currently is.

I'm actually ok with it. As it would mean that the team would have to develop solid football players to compete vs opening a wallet and would have no excuse to jack up prices. All this "Toronto fans deserve big names" stuff is malarky as far as I'm concerned. Just build a solid organization, that's what we deserve.

Vanocouver having higher ratings on the road vs TFC at home. 22k people attended TFC live, a few hundered drove to Portland. Cascadia Cup is also a way bigger deal then the Trilium Cup. Vancouver doesnt play Portland and Seattle every week. Show me the ratings for a Vancouver home game against Columbus or equivilant (SJ, Dallas ect ect). That wont be close to 100k.

GuelphStorm2007
06-04-2014, 01:26 AM
97000 on a warm Saturday still some improvement cann be needed but we are still drawing more viewers thant Sun tv. THATS WHAT THEY GET IF YOU ADD UP THE WHOLE WEEK .

GuelphStorm2007
06-04-2014, 01:35 AM
Our style is not that great to watch I attended the last game v Columbus and to be honest for the first 75 minutes the game was pretty ugly, Mind you it picked up after that big time. I still think we are a team in Transition. But I agree with MikeM that 4 4 2 kick and run British style it is garbage Has not won the Brits anything in almost 50 yhears.

Defoe
06-04-2014, 01:56 AM
At the end of the day it comes down to quality, and when the quality is their so will the numbers... I'll be watching and they will make 3 or 4 pass then someone will pass it directly to the opposing player...I have to get up sometimes and walk around for a second it can be hard to watch at times. I find the Vancouver games more pleasurable to watch... Now I watch no matter what... but the average fan wouldn't. It takes times as long as it's on a steady incline from year to year rather then game to game is the importance in all of this. I bet the home opener next year will be 350 k.

Abou Sky
06-04-2014, 07:35 AM
Ratings will come, most people see me in TFC gear and say stuff like 'they're better this year aren't they? "

A couple of playoff runs are needed.

Baseball has over 150 years of professional tradition in NA, hardly a benchmark for an 18 year old league.

Pookie
06-04-2014, 07:54 AM
Vanocouver having higher ratings on the road vs TFC at home. 22k people attended TFC live, a few hundered drove to Portland. Cascadia Cup is also a way bigger deal then the Trilium Cup. Vancouver doesnt play Portland and Seattle every week. Show me the ratings for a Vancouver home game against Columbus or equivilant (SJ, Dallas ect ect). That wont be close to 100k.

Well, Vancouver has only been on TSN main network a couple times this year.

Eg. April 19 v LA they drew 122,000 while TFC drew 101,000 on the same day vs Colorado.

ag futbol
06-04-2014, 08:35 AM
MLS does not do well with ratings in general. In the defence of people who don't watch: if I hadn't gone to BMO field, I'd have little interest in this team too. There just isn't the depth of coverage / quality of play needed to draw interest. It's getting better on all fronts, but certainly not there yet.

MightyDM
06-04-2014, 08:44 AM
We need to add these numbers to compare to CFL, NBA playoffs, NASCAR, because they are local broadcasts for TFC and Vancouver. So a steady 200,000 - 225,000 or so, plus whatever montreal would get, seems to be the base for MLS viewing in Canada right now.

brad
06-04-2014, 08:50 AM
Don't doubt it for a second. As captivating as this team has been for all of us, MLS is not a bloody big deal… it's considered minor league in the Ontario sports market.

The big question I have about these ratings is whether it will necessitate a change in direction for our club away from the big name signings.

Ontario has 3x the population of BC. TFC spends nearly 3x more than Vancouver. Yet they draw the same to television. Both teams claim sell outs for home games. Similar twitter followers given market sizes (78k for Toronto, 63k for Vancouver). Etc, etc.

If someone brings a calculator to a Board meeting, the return on investment this year is a hard thing to justify.

Why would it? I would be very, very surprised if they assumed that numbers would turn around overnight on the back of two signings. I would also be surprised if an organization like MLSE (which, for all their faults on the field are well run off it) would justify such a massive outlay without a longer term projection. And TV numbers are also only part of the financial picture. There are sponsorships, merchandise sales, off season friendlies (part of TL's MO), cell phone contracts to drive, ect, ect.

IMHO - the DP signings where done to triage a team on life support. TFC at the end of last season was in serious trouble IMHO. If they had gone through the off-season without making much of a splash, do you think we would have seen strong season ticket sales? Do you think we would have see close to packed stadiums? I certainly don't. After several years of BMO being a depressing, dull place, there is a buzz back around that hasn't been there in years.

And on the field - we are in 5th, in a playoff spot, with the 5th best PPG in the league. The other, seriously added benefit so far is that the team seems to finally have belief in itself. For years this team has been beaten before it walked on the pitch. With the way things are going so far, that psychological turnaround is a massive, massive thing.

Yes, the DP's are pretty much carrying us (without Defoe scoring we would be basement dwellers), but to that, on all accounts I would have to say - short term objectives with the DP signings accomplished.

Now, where we go from here is the question. DP's only carry the team for so long, and need a solid team behind them. TFC of the past would keep hoping that the DP's would be enough. I see signs of hope today that this is not longer the case (like Bez stockpiling draft picks).

The real payoff is if and when the manage to put the other pieces in place and turn this team into a competitive team.

brad
06-04-2014, 08:52 AM
Another point about comparing ratings of stuff like Nascar to TFC. TFC's audience is by and large a younger demographic. This demographic is turning away from cable in record numbers and moving to online.

While it is impossible to get numbers, I would be curious what TFC's total viewership is on those games - factoring in those that stream the games. I bet those numbers are a lot higher.

jabbronies
06-04-2014, 09:08 AM
Game times are part of the problem.

I wonder if they took the Saturday night hockey slot - 7:30pm start time - if ratings would improve.
More people would be home at that time. Families are finished dinner and are settling in for the evening. Other people are starting to get ready to go out and could have it on as they motor around the house getting ready.

Red CB Toronto
06-04-2014, 12:52 PM
TFC still is a developing tv product, it will take time to truly get traction on an ongoing basis.

C.Ronaldo
06-04-2014, 01:14 PM
good point on the streaming

Still think all MLS should be streamed free to build up demand

ManUtd4ever
06-04-2014, 01:26 PM
Game times are part of the problem.

I wonder if they took the Saturday night hockey slot - 7:30pm start time - if ratings would improve.
More people would be home at that time. Families are finished dinner and are settling in for the evening. Other people are starting to get ready to go out and could have it on as they motor around the house getting ready.

I've thought about that as well; a "Soccer Night In Canada" type of broadcast whereby viewers would always know when to tune in. It could become a tradition in many homes.

The current format with a varying afternoon broadcast schedule combined with the beautiful weather does not lend itself to strong television ratings under the best of circumstances.

Pookie
06-04-2014, 01:47 PM
So does the team that is owned by the networks set the schedule or do the networks?

Keep in mind that if TFC played evening games in March-April-May and into June they would be going right up against the end of the NHL season and into the NHL playoffs.

Pookie
06-04-2014, 01:54 PM
Another point about comparing ratings of stuff like Nascar to TFC. TFC's audience is by and large a younger demographic. This demographic is turning away from cable in record numbers and moving to online.

While it is impossible to get numbers, I would be curious what TFC's total viewership is on those games - factoring in those that stream the games. I bet those numbers are a lot higher.

It's an interesting marketing question. Does TFC in fact attract a younger demographic?

If social media is a barometer consider the Jays have over 6x the number of twitter followers.

ManUtd4ever
06-04-2014, 02:21 PM
So does the team that is owned by the networks set the schedule or do the networks?

Keep in mind that if TFC played evening games in March-April-May and into June they would be going right up against the end of the NHL season and into the NHL playoffs.

I think the Saturday evening time slot would work well from May to September.

brad
06-04-2014, 03:55 PM
It's an interesting marketing question. Does TFC in fact attract a younger demographic?

If social media is a barometer consider the Jays have over 6x the number of twitter followers.

Good question. In the past what I have heard from numerous sources is that the main demo for TFC is males aged 20-35. Can't remember sources though.

That said, it would not surprise me if the jays were 6x more popular than TFC

OgtheDim
06-04-2014, 03:56 PM
good point on the streaming

Still think all MLS should be streamed free to build up demand

MLS types are steeped in the NFL/MLB model, where content is always paid for.

Rogers and Bell are even more adamant about this principle.

brad
06-04-2014, 04:03 PM
MLS types are steeped in the NFL/MLB model, where content is always paid for.

Rogers and Bell are even more adamant about this principle.

I wonder if we will see this shift though - since a shift to streaming simply drives revenue from one avenue to another. I think we will. The whole world (not just sports) is moving online, they control the backbone - so they can monetize it there.

OgtheDim
06-04-2014, 04:29 PM
Rogers in particular has been driven by content as an asset since the 70's. Its the backbone of every CRTC discussion they have and decision they make in terms of broadcasting. (Negative option billing for example).

To change this would require a corporate mentality pivot I'm not sure they are capable of.

ag futbol
06-04-2014, 06:29 PM
Forget weather / online streaming / broadcast schedules. There is no consistent track record of canadian MLS games at the 200k+ ratings level.

We've drawn well on one off novelty games and otherwise have always been a ratings doormat. Most MLS teams are in exactly the same boat.

It's all about how to get people to pay attention at this point. IMO that means better / more consistent coverage / more predictable game times ( eg. nfl) . They also need to work on the quality of play and officiating.

Separately, they'll have to start marketing their athletes more and get their faces into the public eye. Dempsey and the other USMNT guys are a huge step in that direction. But a lot of this stuff is a product of a league that has a very strong memory of the leans years and wants to reinvent the wheel in terms of getting A+ prices for C+ product.

Abou Sky
06-04-2014, 10:30 PM
Separately, they'll have to start marketing their athletes more and get their faces into the public eye. Dempsey and the other USMNT guys are a huge step in that direction. But a lot of this stuff is a product of a league that has a very strong memory of the leans years and wants to reinvent the wheel in terms of getting A+ prices for C+ product.

Good point, part of the reason I am behind the USA in the WC

Americans do sports like nobody else on the planet, I have never heard of any other country where a whole town goes out on a Friday night to support the local football team. Once Americans REALLY grab hold of soccer, WATCH OUT!

By 2025, MLS is going to be a top league in the world.

Defoe
06-05-2014, 01:35 AM
Defoe and Bradley are both the best players at their position in this league and that's why we have the record we do... I just find everyone else other then maybe a few BELOW mls quality... Hall is not an mls player... Say what you will about MLS but I think this league is at a point where teams in this league are much better then to employ this type of player even as depth... seriously think Any other team would be 1st if they had MB and Jermaine. The overall depth needs to improve for interest to be their, but how do you do that when your already at the DP limit and your capped out? Why can't these guys string together any type of possession? I watch Vancouver Seattle New England and even lesser skilled teams and their possession is just on another level... I'm a toronto fan first but I watch more Vancouver games then I do Toronto, it's just more enjoyable to watch. I'm not attacking the team I'm just stating some facts they play a very ugly game.

Defoe
06-05-2014, 01:38 AM
Good point, part of the reason I am behind the USA in the WC

Americans do sports like nobody else on the planet, I have never heard of any other country where a whole town goes out on a Friday night to support the local football team. Once Americans REALLY grab hold of soccer, WATCH OUT!

By 2025, MLS is going to be a top league in the world.

and that's why I'm a fan, because I have hope. I think the league is going in the right direction... It takes time and eventually the product will be their to enjoy a TFC game for 90 minutes. Franchises in America sell out a 50 k stadium for 81 home games a year in baseball... Even if soccer Is the 5th most popular sport in America it can sell out a 35 k stadium for 20 home games a year... And Otr I think it could pass hockey.

Carts
06-05-2014, 09:58 AM
and that's why I'm a fan, because I have hope. I think the league is going in the right direction... It takes time and eventually the product will be their to enjoy a TFC game for 90 minutes. Franchises in America sell out a 50 k stadium for 81 home games a year in baseball... Even if soccer Is the 5th most popular sport in America it can sell out a 35 k stadium for 20 home games a year... And Otr I think it could pass hockey.

Lawn bowling could pass hockey in 90% of the USA!!! :)

But seriously, I agree with your post - the league is going in the right direction, and it takes time...

One thing I am down on the Dapper-Don right now, the 'Soccer Specific Stadiums'. Once upon a time it was basically mandatory new teams have them, now we're getting tarps over seats in NFL stadiums, or even worse, bed sheets hanging from the ceiling to hide an upper deck... That won't help non-fans take the league seriously...

Carts...

C.Ronaldo
06-05-2014, 10:45 AM
Lawn bowling could pass hockey in 90% of the USA!!! :)

But seriously, I agree with your post - the league is going in the right direction, and it takes time...

One thing I am down on the Dapper-Don right now, the 'Soccer Specific Stadiums'. Once upon a time it was basically mandatory new teams have them, now we're getting tarps over seats in NFL stadiums, or even worse, bed sheets hanging from the ceiling to hide an upper deck... That won't help non-fans take the league seriously...

Carts...

WOMEN'S SOFTBALL was on everywhere in san antonio and austin, while NHL playoffs were on AND champions league.

If it ain't home grown they dont care

Heepster
06-06-2014, 07:12 PM
I assume the numbers mentioned here are all national. Maybe the relative ratings just in Toronto would look a little better?
Is it possible to obtain a list of weekly TV ratings from just the Toronto market? It seems there is (or at least was, a couple of years ago) a list of the Top 30 shows of the week for Toronto and other individual cities, so I assume these numbers must be collected.
http://www.channelcanada.com/canadian-channels/canadian-tv-weekly-ratings-report-september-17th-23rd-2012#Toronto

TFC07
06-07-2014, 07:42 AM
I assume the numbers mentioned here are all national. Maybe the relative ratings just in Toronto would look a little better?
Is it possible to obtain a list of weekly TV ratings from just the Toronto market? It seems there is (or at least was, a couple of years ago) a list of the Top 30 shows of the week for Toronto and other individual cities, so I assume these numbers must be collected.
http://www.channelcanada.com/canadian-channels/canadian-tv-weekly-ratings-report-september-17th-23rd-2012#Toronto

Thanks for the link. Some interesting numbers (example: CFL not making Toronto TV rating list unlike other markets) from that link.

Qman
06-10-2014, 06:00 PM
This guy publishes the sports ratings every week and has some good analysis

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/author/chris-zelkovich/

Pookie
06-12-2014, 10:22 AM
^ From Chris' blog:

Vancouver vs Philly (TSN) - 116,000
Toronto vs San Jose (TSN) - 109,000

Lumpy
06-17-2014, 11:33 AM
This weeks tv ratings for sports seem to show the potential for a huge tv audience for soccer in Canada.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-world-cup-audiences-runneth-150659421.html

TFC07
06-17-2014, 12:30 PM
This weeks tv ratings for sports seem to show the potential for a huge tv audience for soccer in Canada.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-world-cup-audiences-runneth-150659421.html

Insane TV ratings for soccer! TFC can barely get 100,000 to watch their games while World Cup (so far) is averaging about 1.5 million viewers (which doesn't include online viewers).

MLSE better take note!

OgtheDim
06-17-2014, 12:37 PM
Canadians like watching the best in this sport - as does the rest of the world.

IIRC, the ratings for the World Cup are huge in South East Asia - the domestic leagues can't draw flies.

Red Skies At Night
06-17-2014, 12:53 PM
This weeks tv ratings for sports seem to show the potential for a huge tv audience for soccer in Canada.


A large % of those eyeballs aren't really interested in soccer but are interested in the world cup spectacle, and celebrating their 'heritage'... won't translate into more eyeballs on mls (even if the us does very well at wc)

prizby
06-17-2014, 01:05 PM
A large % of those eyeballs aren't really interested in soccer but are interested in the world cup spectacle, and celebrating their 'heritage'... won't translate into more eyeballs on mls (even if the us does very well at wc)

maybe the case, but lets not forget that most of the games are on during work hours too though

reggie
06-17-2014, 01:27 PM
Insane TV ratings for soccer! TFC can barely get 100,000 to watch their games while World Cup (so far) is averaging about 1.5 million viewers (which doesn't include online viewers).

MLSE better take note!
yes....maybe they should spend some money on players,to get those ratings up

Red Skies At Night
06-17-2014, 01:27 PM
maybe the case, but lets not forget that most of the games are on during work hours too though

That's a good point. Although, I work in an office of 500+ and loads of them are watching online (yeah, it's that kind of company lol), but the large % of those don't watch any other soccer, and I think are unlikely to after the wc...

wc transcends soccer and becomes an event that non-soccer fans want to be involved in, we've seen big viewing #'s for wc's before, but it hasn't translated into anything in North America

Lumpy
06-24-2014, 03:25 PM
Huge 50% increase in Canadian audience for this World Cup versus last one.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-uplifting-spring-cbc-183205487.html#more-id

shwade
06-24-2014, 04:38 PM
Huge 50% increase in Canadian audience for this World Cup versus last one.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-uplifting-spring-cbc-183205487.html#more-id

It helps that Brazil is only an hour ahead of us.

TFC07
06-24-2014, 04:38 PM
Huge 50% increase in Canadian audience for this World Cup versus last one.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-uplifting-spring-cbc-183205487.html#more-id

Nice! :flare:

TFC07
06-24-2014, 04:40 PM
It helps that Brazil is only an hour ahead of us.

But still, how many predicted we will average about 1.5 million viewers per game? It's a sign that soccer is growing and becoming more mainstream in Canada.

Masked Man
06-24-2014, 10:08 PM
But still, how many predicted we will average about 1.5 million viewers per game? It's a sign that soccer is growing and becoming more mainstream in Canada.

Is it? True growth isn't measured in what you draw for the World Cup because it's the biggest event in the sport & will always draw mass audiences. It's when people start taking more of a consistent interest in the game that you can see growth.

SoccMan2
06-24-2014, 10:49 PM
Soccer in Canada has been mainstream for awhile now,however, you would never no it from what you see and hear from the mainstream media and please don't bring up the TV ratings for the MLS as prove that it is not, put the EPL,Champions League, La liga in a prime time slot and watch the kind of numbers you would get, of course it will never happen because of the time zone issues but if the big league games aired in primetime hours the numbers would surprise many, times they have changed this is not the Canada of our grandfathers, soccer has arrived but it arrived as a mainstream sport a few years back.

Fort York Redcoat
06-25-2014, 08:24 AM
But still, how many predicted we will average about 1.5 million viewers per game? It's a sign that soccer is growing and becoming more mainstream in Canada.


Soccer in Canada has been mainstream for awhile now,however, you would never no it from what you see and hear from the mainstream media and please don't bring up the TV ratings for the MLS as prove that it is not, put the EPL,Champions League, La liga in a prime time slot and watch the kind of numbers you would get, of course it will never happen because of the time zone issues but if the big league games aired in primetime hours the numbers would surprise many, times they have changed this is not the Canada of our grandfathers, soccer has arrived but it arrived as a mainstream sport a few years back.

Mainstream is often defined as one of the accepted big 4 sports. Many would need MLS to be the most watched footy in the Country before deeming it mainstream. I would agree so far as it means more than everyone knowing what the sport is to make it mainstream. It would need to be taken serious professionally in a more widespread way.

Fort York Redcoat
06-25-2014, 08:28 AM
Is it? True growth isn't measured in what you draw for the World Cup because it's the biggest event in the sport & will always draw mass audiences. It's when people start taking more of a consistent interest in the game that you can see growth.

This is unfair. Other sports measure growth by their viewership of their final but it's definitely not the only measure of growth.

TFC07
06-25-2014, 11:29 AM
Is it? True growth isn't measured in what you draw for the World Cup because it's the biggest event in the sport & will always draw mass audiences. It's when people start taking more of a consistent interest in the game that you can see growth.

Yes it is. Just look how much coverage there is for soccer now than last 10 years? We get a lot more coverage and games on TV than ever before.

EDIT: Just look at EPL numbers for consistent good ratings (for morning time TV).

TFC07
06-25-2014, 11:40 AM
Mainstream is often defined as one of the accepted big 4 sports. Many would need MLS to be the most watched footy in the Country before deeming it mainstream. I would agree so far as it means more than everyone knowing what the sport is to make it mainstream. It would need to be taken serious professionally in a more widespread way.

MLS is low quality soccer league. It's not even "our" (as in Canadian) league to begin so to expect Canadians to accept MLS as their major league isn't going to happen especially outside three markets. The fact EPL and CL gets double the numbers than MLS in Canada despite playing in morning time proves that. Soccer is accepted as mainstream now in this country, but not MLS though.

Fort York Redcoat
06-25-2014, 12:15 PM
MLS is low quality soccer league. It's not even "our" (as in Canadian) league to begin so to expect Canadians to accept MLS as their major league isn't going to happen especially outside three markets.

NHL
NFL
MLB
NBA

Which of these are Canadian? Which of these would be challenged as mainstream?

TFC07
06-25-2014, 12:21 PM
NHL
NFL
MLB
NBA

Which of these are Canadian? Which of these would be challenged as mainstream?

In Canada, there's only two "mainstream" leagues: NHL (Used to be a Canadian league) and CFL (Canadian league) that consistently gets good ratings on TV regardless who's playing. Other sport leagues (like MLB and NBA) get crap ratings when Toronto teams aren't playing. So that tells me that those leagues aren't widely accepted in Canada (especially NBA which is more Ontario thing). In fact, Curling gets better ratings than those two leagues on average.

Fort York Redcoat
06-25-2014, 12:24 PM
In Canada, there's only two "mainstream" leagues: NHL (Used to be a Canadian league) and CFL (Canadian league) that consistently gets good ratings on TV regardless who's playing. Other sport leagues (like MLB and NBA) get crap ratings when Toronto teams aren't playing. So that tells me that those leagues aren't widely accepted in Canada (especially NBA which is more Ontario thing). In fact, Curling gets better ratings than those two leagues on average.

The comparison can be drawn with MLS/EPL and CFL/NFL but the NHL is a Canadian league?

TFC07
06-25-2014, 12:29 PM
The comparison can be drawn with MLS/CFL to NFL/EPL but the NHL is a Canadian league?

Originally it was more Canadian league, however, NHL is biggest hockey league in the world. So of course NHL will get great TV ratings in Canada.

MLS is American league while CFL is Canadian league. That's difference between those two leagues! CFL gets better ratings than any other sport leagues outside NHL in this country because it's all out Canadian league. I think people underestimate how big of difference Canadian content matter when comes viewership in this country.

Fort York Redcoat
06-25-2014, 12:42 PM
Originally it was more Canadian league, however, NHL is biggest hockey league in the world. So of course NHL will get great TV ratings in Canada.

MLS is American league while CFL is Canadian league. That's difference between those two leagues! CFL gets better ratings than any other sport leagues outside NHL in this country because it's all out Canadian league. I think people underestimate how big of difference Canadian content matter when comes viewership in this country.

So what's the difference?

NHL isn't a Canadian League
CFL is rife with Americans that can't play in the NFL (which makes it more mainstream btw since you bring up "top leagues")
MLS should be on its way to ratings much like the CFL compared to the EPL since Canadians playing in it would out sell watching foreigners (like in the NFL) do it better.

Beach_Red
06-25-2014, 01:14 PM
Originally it was more Canadian league, however, NHL is biggest hockey league in the world. So of course NHL will get great TV ratings in Canada.

MLS is American league while CFL is Canadian league. That's difference between those two leagues! CFL gets better ratings than any other sport leagues outside NHL in this country because it's all out Canadian league. I think people underestimate how big of difference Canadian content matter when comes viewership in this country.

I don't know about the viewership, but Canadian content makes a huge difference to the networks and so that effects how much they spend on production and promotion and other things.

And just to be clear, the NHL has never been much more Canadian. From its first year it had 4 American and 2 Canadian teams so the ratio has gone from 2-1 to 3-1 (although Buffalo and Detroit get a lot of support from Canada).

Qman
06-25-2014, 09:02 PM
MLS is low quality soccer league. It's not even "our" (as in Canadian) league to begin so to expect Canadians to accept MLS as their major league isn't going to happen especially outside three markets. The fact EPL and CL gets double the numbers than MLS in Canada despite playing in morning time proves that. Soccer is accepted as mainstream now in this country, but not MLS though.

I think we should be happy the games are on TV because with ratings of 50k-100k are too low for TSN to carry the games or spend any money producing the games and we should be lucky the games are on TV right now because they might not be in the future.

Nestease
06-25-2014, 11:17 PM
I think we should be happy the games are on TV because with ratings of 50k-100k are too low for TSN to carry the games or spend any money producing the games and we should be lucky the games are on TV right now because they might not be in the future.

- TSN holds the rights till then end of the 2016 season. They wrestled the rights away from CBC and Sportsnet who were pulling the same ratings.
- TSN is starting TSN1, TSN2, TSN3, TSN4, TSN5 in a couple months. They need all the content they can get.
- TSN is not going to give up the MLS after losing the NHL deal for the next 12 years to Sportsnet. CBC no longer bids on sports. They are not handing MLS to Sportsnet on a platter.

The TV rights have little to do with ratings and a lot to do with boosting their portfolios.

Qman
06-25-2014, 11:41 PM
- TSN holds the rights till then end of the 2016 season. They wrestled the rights away from CBC and Sportsnet who were pulling the same ratings.
- TSN is starting TSN1, TSN2, TSN3, TSN4, TSN5 in a couple months. They need all the content they can get.
- TSN is not going to give up the MLS after losing the NHL deal for the next 12 years to Sportsnet. CBC no longer bids on sports. They are not handing MLS to Sportsnet on a platter.

The TV rights have little to do with ratings and a lot to do with boosting their portfolios.

TV rights have everything to do with ratings.
I don't think they wrestled the rights away from SN/CBC because at those low ratings TSN isn't paying anything for the rights (its a profit sharing deal and at those number they are probably operating at a loss). MLS basically went with TSN because TSN has showed them what they have done for the world junior rights and CFL rights.

TSN has said TSN3, TSN4, TSN5 will be filled with low cost ESPN properties they own (due to EPSN 30% ownership) plus regional hockey they own (OTT,WPG,MTL,1/2 TOR).

Where is SN going to put MLS (all there channels will be packed with hockey in Spring and Fall) plus they have to show Blue Jays in Summer.


All I am saying is lets be happy with coverage we have because it could be gone tomorrow.

Pookie
07-02-2014, 08:46 PM
No World Cup bump for MLS.

Chris' latest ratings report is in. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-always-hockey-season-canada-200214504.html

TFC vs NY didn't crack the top 17. Whitecaps vs Rapids did but just 119k.

Qman
07-02-2014, 11:41 PM
No World Cup bump for MLS.

Chris' latest ratings report is in. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-always-hockey-season-canada-200214504.html

TFC vs NY didn't crack the top 17. Whitecaps vs Rapids did but just 119k.

Notice that Whitecaps seems to get on TSN, while TFC is put on secondary channels like TSN2/Sportsnet360.
... i guess its its because their primary sponsor also owns TSN.

They seems to consistently are drawing 110k, while we are drawing flies.

Fort York Redcoat
07-03-2014, 08:34 AM
No World Cup bump for MLS.

Chris' latest ratings report is in. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-always-hockey-season-canada-200214504.html

TFC vs NY didn't crack the top 17. Whitecaps vs Rapids did but just 119k.

I'm sure you'll update us AFTER the tournament is actually over as well?

TFC07
07-03-2014, 08:36 AM
Did MLS get boost after last world cup? I don't seem to recall if ratings increase for MLS.

notthesun
07-03-2014, 12:51 PM
I feel like a boost in ratings due to the World Cup would probably only come after it's over (if it comes at all).

Pookie
07-04-2014, 06:21 AM
I'm sure you'll update us AFTER the tournament is actually over as well?

As you wish ;)

Pookie
07-04-2014, 06:25 AM
Did MLS get boost after last world cup? I don't seem to recall if ratings increase for MLS.

Not sure but I think they definitely made progress.

Think of TFC. In the early days, when they weren't on CBC they were relegated to GolTV, the Score. Now, they are on TSN and Sportsnet main networks occasionally. I'm not sure that their market has grown but they became relevant enough to move to channels that were in more demand.

If they can't draw more than 100k, I'm not sure they will stay on the main networks but that is a definite improvement over where they were pre-world cup (2010).

Pookie
07-08-2014, 10:08 PM
I know it's not after World Cup but Chris' blog is updated.

Neither TFC or Vancouver cracked the top 24 this weekend. #24 was the Indycar Pocono 500 on Sportsnet that drew 103k.

Outside of record setting World Cup ratings, Tennis was a big winner as was the CFL, drawing more than the Jays this weekend. Argos came in at #8 and 534k.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-tennis-help-keep-tsn-210002530.html

prizby
07-09-2014, 11:02 AM
Outside of record setting World Cup ratings, Tennis was a big winner as was the CFL, drawing more than the Jays this weekend. Argos came in at #8 and 534k.


majority of which were watching for Saskatchewan

TFC07
07-09-2014, 11:16 AM
I know it's not after World Cup but Chris' blog is updated.

Neither TFC or Vancouver cracked the top 24 this weekend. #24 was the Indycar Pocono 500 on Sportsnet that drew 103k.

Outside of record setting World Cup ratings, Tennis was a big winner as was the CFL, drawing more than the Jays this weekend. Argos came in at #8 and 534k.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-tennis-help-keep-tsn-210002530.html

Believe it or not, but CFL ratings have been not great compare to their last year's average (700K viewers per game). But I guess World Cup is hurting everyone on TV ratings front.

EDIT: Blue Jays ratings are great despite playing late night (They were in California).

Pookie
07-09-2014, 11:43 AM
majority of which were watching for Saskatchewan

Perhaps. TSN doesn't care though. 534,000 viewers to content they are providing.

cmonyoureds
07-09-2014, 11:46 AM
TV rights have everything to do with ratings.
I don't think they wrestled the rights away from SN/CBC because at those low ratings TSN isn't paying anything for the rights (its a profit sharing deal and at those number they are probably operating at a loss). MLS basically went with TSN because TSN has showed them what they have done for the world junior rights and CFL rights.

TSN has said TSN3, TSN4, TSN5 will be filled with low cost ESPN properties they own (due to EPSN 30% ownership) plus regional hockey they own (OTT,WPG,MTL,1/2 TOR).

Where is SN going to put MLS (all there channels will be packed with hockey in Spring and Fall) plus they have to show Blue Jays in Summer.


All I am saying is lets be happy with coverage we have because it could be gone tomorrow.

And they've done a pretty good job of putting EPL games into that early Saturday afternoon slot during the season.

Fort York Redcoat
07-09-2014, 11:49 AM
Perhaps. TSN doesn't care though. 534,000 viewers to content they are providing.

Are you saying the Roughriders are moving to BMO???????

http://i44.tinypic.com/nfpid3.jpg

Pookie
07-09-2014, 01:09 PM
Are you saying the Roughriders are moving to BMO???????



Yes... that is exactly what I am saying

At least they finally have only one team called the Roughriders.

Pookie
07-09-2014, 01:11 PM
Hey, TFC plays the Whitecaps soon.

With them drawing +100k and us drawing +100k, maybe MLS will get a +200k rating for the first time in a long time.

That's math in action boys.

Qman
07-09-2014, 06:33 PM
majority of which were watching for Saskatchewan


The Argos normally draw the same audience as the Blue Jays do in Ontario.
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/key-cfl-television-ratings-increase-surprise-southern-ontario-183017606.html

Not cracking 100k again is kinda of disturbing trend. Especially with Bradley coming back from the world cup.
Maybe after the World Cup people will want a to fill their footy-fix with Defoe & CO

molenshtain
07-09-2014, 07:10 PM
Maybe if TSN or Sportsnet would man the fuck up and continuously put our games on the proper networks we might get proper ratings. Fuck Nascar, honestly.

prizby
07-09-2014, 08:13 PM
Maybe if TSN or Sportsnet would man the fuck up and continuously put our games on the proper networks we might get proper ratings. Fuck Nascar, honestly.

they need to promote the games more; they did it for the first 2 games of the year and they got 300k+

brad
07-09-2014, 08:20 PM
they need to promote the games more; they did it for the first 2 games of the year and they got 300k+

That could have wen down to the hype around Bradley and Defoe though.

But I agree they need to be promoted.

Pookie
07-09-2014, 09:34 PM
they need to promote the games more; they did it for the first 2 games of the year and they got 300k+

Back in the day CBC got 300k on occasion as well.

Quite a few of the games with poor draws have been on the main networks. People just tuned in initially for the bloody big deal and have moved on from the MLS in general. Much like junior hockey in the GTA. It has its niche but doesn't appeal to the masses that only follow the "top" teams and leagues.

It's all relative though. Games on TSN 2 are better than when on GolTV. Audience is growing. Though not really relevant in terms of mainstream TV, it is better. The stadium looks fuller.

Qman
07-09-2014, 09:36 PM
That could have wen down to the hype around Bradley and Defoe though.

But I agree they need to be promoted.

I see whitecaps commercials on TSN all the time ... maybe b/c the have the sponsorship with TSN's parent

East York
07-11-2014, 11:21 PM
majority of which were watching for Saskatchewan
not really, the biggest growth in CFL ratings are in Southern ONT, for the last 2 years. The Argos get solid ratings in the GTA. Ratings, that the Raptors and TFC would love to get

East York
07-11-2014, 11:34 PM
So what's the difference?

NHL isn't a Canadian League
CFL is rife with Americans that can't play in the NFL (which makes it more mainstream btw since you bring up "top leagues")
MLS should be on its way to ratings much like the CFL compared to the EPL since Canadians playing in it would out sell watching foreigners (like in the NFL) do it better.

The CFL is a vastly different game then the NFL, which require different types of players in some positions then their NFL counterpart. There is a reason CFL lineman and line backs are smaller then in the NFL. Smaller does not mean, not as good. The CFL found a nich in how they play football, with different rules and style of play, which some people find more entertaining, then the NFL. After watching and coaching football for 30 years, I can tell you the NFL has followed the CFL in style of play over the last 30 years. There are still to many soccer snobs in North America, who won't watch MLS, because they feel it's the same game as in Overseas with lesser players

prizby
07-11-2014, 11:45 PM
not really, the biggest growth in CFL ratings are in Southern ONT, for the last 2 years. The Argos get solid ratings in the GTA. Ratings, that the Raptors and TFC would love to get

i guess thats what you get with only 3500 season ticket holders

Qman
07-11-2014, 11:59 PM
i guess thats what you get with only 3500 season ticket holders

What would our SSH number be if we hand not signed Defoe. Maybe 2000 (excluding the 6000 that have to buy SSH as part of the leafs premium seats).
I sat at wednesday night game at BMO this year where there was at the most 5000 people in the stadium. My section was almost empty.

Pookie
07-12-2014, 05:31 AM
What would our SSH number be if we hand not signed Defoe. Maybe 2000 (excluding the 6000 that have to buy SSH as part of the leafs premium seats).
.

Pardon? Did TFC become a Marlies pack for Leaf season ticket holders?

OgtheDim
07-12-2014, 06:43 AM
What would our SSH number be if we hand not signed Defoe. Maybe 2000 (excluding the 6000 that have to buy SSH as part of the leafs premium seats).
I sat at wednesday night game at BMO this year where there was at the most 5000 people in the stadium. My section was almost empty.

Weekday cup matches when its about 8 degrees don't exactly draw the walk up crowds.

prizby
07-12-2014, 08:02 AM
What would our SSH number be if we hand not signed Defoe. Maybe 2000 (excluding the 6000 that have to buy SSH as part of the leafs premium seats).
I sat at wednesday night game at BMO this year where there was at the most 5000 people in the stadium. My section was almost empty.

what are you smoking; 600 have to buy ssh as part of the leafs premium seats...that's a laugh

TFC07
07-13-2014, 12:19 AM
Remember when people on TFC SSH waiting list had to buy Mariles flex pack if they wanted to move up on the list? lol

Oh btw: TFC definitely have 16,000 SSH. I know this because all non-SSH seats have "flex pack" paper ad to get people buy flex packs on those seats.

james
07-13-2014, 02:41 AM
Overall TFC get higher viewers when its on a main cable station. When they play on TSN 2, Sportsnet One and all those bonus channels viewership drops, mainly because a lot of people don't have those channels (or even in my case I have Sportsnet one, yet I learned only just this week that when I check my Sports Menu it does not show my sportsnet one sports? ya WTF? I probably haven't realized for years all the sports that haven't showed up on my Menu). Anyways, viewership also explodes when say channel CBC has a TFC game and shown to the entire country rather then just regional or province, that has even been shown in passed when TFC did play the odd CBC game. I also never get how the figure out any of these rating viewership numbers, I mean main sport channels are normally shown all day long at just about any pub or bar, yet most the time no one is actually watching, that got to add a lot of viewership to all sports on any sport channel. But overall TFC and MLS in Canada is still really a local small team sport. A lot of people don't know much about MLS or care about the league. And that ain't always a bad thing, we are big enough to put bums in the seats and have decent stadiums and get some semi big deals done to sign player but not to big that we got to charge rediculous prices to go see a game, which would piss many supporters off, and out price some of us out of the games.

james
07-13-2014, 02:57 AM
What would our SSH number be if we hand not signed Defoe. Maybe 2000 (excluding the 6000 that have to buy SSH as part of the leafs premium seats).
I sat at wednesday night game at BMO this year where there was at the most 5000 people in the stadium. My section was almost empty.

Wednesday game, they didn't play on Wednesday recently. If you talking about later date, well ive been to every game up untill recently, tho I will agree stadium may announce +20k, really it often looks more like 18,17,16 even 15k this year. But 5k....wtf are you talking about man??? hahahaha

Ivy
07-13-2014, 03:31 AM
James, when they count "viewers", they're counting the number of digital boxes that are connected to the channel, not the actual eyes on the screen. Hope that helps with your question.

Pookie
07-13-2014, 07:13 AM
No question ticket sales rebounded. Still though, for "sold out" games it is a very easy ticket to get.

Advertising for the wait list has me intrigued. You'd never see the Leafs do it.

With stadium expansion though they need to sell another 8,000. If they can't, they can't raise prices either. So there is a win in there for the fans.

Abou Sky
07-13-2014, 10:15 AM
Advertising for the wait list has me intrigued. You'd never see the Leafs do it.

Leafs wait list is 20 years, seriously, not the same thing.

As for easy tickets to come by, yes, but so are Leafs and Raptors tickets.

Fort York Redcoat
07-13-2014, 12:08 PM
The CFL is a vastly different game then the NFL, which require different types of players in some positions then their NFL counterpart. There is a reason CFL lineman and line backs are smaller then in the NFL. Smaller does not mean, not as good. The CFL found a nich in how they play football, with different rules and style of play, which some people find more entertaining, then the NFL. After watching and coaching football for 30 years, I can tell you the NFL has followed the CFL in style of play over the last 30 years. There are still to many soccer snobs in North America, who won't watch MLS, because they feel it's the same game as in Overseas with lesser players

I'm well aware of the differences within and between the leagues, both football and gridiron. I wasn't suggesting the CFL rules or game was inferior. I don't believe that. But please don't try and convince me the vast majority of those players would turn down playing in the inferior NFL rules game for vastly superior fame and fortune. As for your footy comparison-I don't see it. One thing that a soccer snob would have correct is that it is the same rules worldwide. That's suppose to be the appeal of the game. They just have skipped the part where one can enjoy one's local live. Like the gridiron comparison above I would be hard pressed to scorn our players for moving on to greater pastures if we were compensated in kind. (Edu for one)

The convo I was having was how Canadian our pro leagues are not since it was raised that more Canadian content was the simple answer to ratings.