Polar Vortex - What If and When?

[OgtheDim]

First home game is in less then 25 days. :scarf:

And its freaking cold out there right now.

Yeah....yeah...I know...Ontario weather almost always has a thaw sometime before March Break.

But, this winter freeze has gone on for awhile and doesn't seem to be easing off.

So, I gots myself a series of questions:

How warm does it have to get to and by when does that have to happen for the field to be ready?

How warm does it have to get to and by when does that have to happen for the stadium to be ready?


And if the field and stadium are not ready, what are the alternatives according to league rules?

[Pint]

No idea but anything above -30 and i will be standing in my section (drinking some sort of hot alcoholic beverage)

[FluSH]

Hot Toddie's for everyone!

[Initial B]

I heard that the long range forecast shows below seasonal weather up to March 17th...

[Alonso]

No idea but anything above -30 and i will be standing in my section (drinking some sort of hot alcoholic beverage)

Problem is the stadium won't open for the game because the stadium isn't winterized, meaning no washrooms, and no concessions, and no go because that can't happen.

Game would most likely move to the skydome or move date(s).


EDIT: I would say anything in the +5 c in the forecast and the game goes ahead at BMO

[Redcoe15]

Shirts off!!!

[Yohan]

season opener vs Portland 3 yrs ago? was really cold, but I don't remember any issues with the stadium

[tfcleeds]

Might as well do a dress rehearsal for when we're hosting games in November! :p

[Alonso]

season opener vs Portland 3 yrs ago? was really cold, but I don't remember any issues with the stadium

Yeah you're right: http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?StationID=5097&timeframe=2&Year=2011&Month=3&cmdB1=Go#

It was -2 that day... game was on.

But if I remember correctly they had $100,000+ in water pipe damage which perpetuated the subsequent skydome games...

[Suds]

Jameson

That is all.

[Hustle]

we are putting jameson in the pipes to prevent water damage? Nice! you can buy alot of Jameson for less than $100000.

[Cashcleaner]

You know, when we're at home playing teams like Houston, Dallas, or LA and going through a local cold snap, that usually gives us a bit of a leg-up against the competition who normally train and play in much warmer climates (or at least milder compared to Toronto).

This year, though, we've got DC United and Colorado visiting in the months of March and April when our weather is usually at it's most extreme during the MLS regular season. Unfortunately, I doubt that's going to have much of a positive impact for Toronto as both teams experience similar climates and weather systems.

As for the readiness of the pitch and facilities at BMO Field, I'm confident we won't have any issues, but if they do arise I'm pretty sure there is an agreement with Rogers Centre to host an emergency match or two if it's needed.

[Cas87]

As long as it is sunny and anything at or above -5 C then the game will be at BMO

[FluSH]

Shirts off!!!

LMAO

[hulkrogan]

Good thing the geniuses at league HQ have said "Not if, but when" to a winter schedule. I hope they have been paying attention to this winter and noticing how many games would have been cancelled or had about 10 fans show up league wide.

[Fort York Redcoat]

There is no chance of the opener being moved.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-because-the-show-must-go-on-8.png

[Phil]

The big concern for the game ops people will be the stadium. The grass has heating and should revive pretty well given a couple weeks (starting soon) of proper heating.

The water pipes need to be turned on for the south, East and north sides. The west side is in a heated building. The temp has to be warm enough to open the pipes. If we get a couple days before the opener that has moderate temps then it should be fine. The longer the pipes are on, the more resource they have to dedicate to having plumbers on call 24/7 during the cold.

[gdg_9]

According to this long-range forecasr, it should start to warm up (at least to + highs, and lows no colder than -5) by mid-March.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/ca/toronto/m5g/month/55488?monyr=3/01/2014


March 22 is forecasted to be +2 degrees and overcast.

It's going to be a cold one for sure... but hopefully warm enough to prevent any stadium issues.

[Waggy]

Hot Toddie's for everyone!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRNeSESId30

[Red CB Toronto]

After seeing the conditions in Denver last year that the USA and Costa Rica played in during their World Cup qualifier, nothing would surprise me in terms what scenario the Reds would play in.

[Heart of Stone]

The C.Rapids home-opener was snowed out last year... game delayed until the next afternoon... huge snow-banks lined the field.

[Abou Sky]

Good thing the geniuses at league HQ have said "Not if, but when" to a winter schedule. I hope they have been paying attention to this winter and noticing how many games would have been cancelled or had about 10 fans show up league wide.

I don't mind if they move to a winter schedule as long as it isn't within the next 80-90 years

[jazzy]

You know, when we're at home playing teams like Houston, Dallas, or LA and going through a local cold snap, that usually gives us a bit of a leg-up against the competition who normally train and play in much warmer climates (or at least milder compared to Toronto).

This year, though, we've got DC United and Colorado visiting in the months of March and April when our weather is usually at it's most extreme during the MLS regular season. Unfortunately, I doubt that's going to have much of a positive impact for Toronto as both teams experience similar climates and weather systems.

As for the readiness of the pitch and facilities at BMO Field, I'm confident we won't have any issues, but if they do arise I'm pretty sure there is an agreement with Rogers Centre to host an emergency match or two if it's needed.

what a total disappointment IF any games are held in skydome ! There are reasons it is a horrible sporting venue . Anyone who actually likes the place is an apologist or wealthy enough to drink through the complete game . My seasons are strongly because of BMO and our environment there........and while on topic IF we had to spend a season there for construction of a new stadium, (anyone thinking about that?), I'd prob miss many games or simply walk the concourse.......call me crazy...

[jazzy]

Good thing the geniuses at league HQ have said "Not if, but when" to a winter schedule. I hope they have been paying attention to this winter and noticing how many games would have been cancelled or had about 10 fans show up league wide.

this won't happen ...mainly because FIFA is now considering moving to a schedule similar to ours....

[jazzy]

The big concern for the game ops people will be the stadium. The grass has heating and should revive pretty well given a couple weeks (starting soon) of proper heating.

The water pipes need to be turned on for the south, East and north sides. The west side is in a heated building. The temp has to be warm enough to open the pipes. If we get a couple days before the opener that has moderate temps then it should be fine. The longer the pipes are on, the more resource they have to dedicate to having plumbers on call 24/7 during the cold.

it is the heat/cold , back and forth that pops the plumbing. some frozen pipes when thawed will pop, if they have/had any water in them, we need a gradual thaw . In the hydro outage some buildings had ALL their water shut-down and wouldn't revive the water until inside temp was 5 to 10 degrees (inside).(cold pipes). Hopefully there won't be a forecast of real cold following the opener, either . That said, it's all about this drastic winter , and who knows when we actually feel the heat . :) We'll all be peeing in a cup. :)

[Abou Sky]

Someone who knows more than me:

How hard is it to heat/insulate pipes?

[Abou Sky]

what a total disappointment IF any games are held in skydome ! There are reasons it is a horrible sporting venue . Anyone who actually likes the place is an apologist or wealthy enough to drink through the complete game . My seasons are strongly because of BMO and our environment there........and while on topic IF we had to spend a season there for construction of a new stadium, (anyone thinking about that?), I'd prob miss many games or simply walk the concourse.......call me crazy...

I wouldn't spend a season there, but if I had to choose between -10 and windy with snow or Skydome, I would pick Skydome

I REALLY don't get why they don't have the teams in colder climates play their first few games away and have them by-week heavy. It wouldn't be impossible to organize by any means, hopefully with Orlando coming in they will be able to make it happen.

[Initial B]

Someone who knows more than me:

How hard is it to heat/insulate pipes?
The treatment plant I used to work at used heat tracing on the pipes to keep the liquid from freezing. Think of it like resistance heating for pipes.

[james]

You know, when we're at home playing teams like Houston, Dallas, or LA and going through a local cold snap, that usually gives us a bit of a leg-up against the competition who normally train and play in much warmer climates (or at least milder compared to Toronto).

This year, though, we've got DC United and Colorado visiting in the months of March and April when our weather is usually at it's most extreme during the MLS regular season. Unfortunately, I doubt that's going to have much of a positive impact for Toronto as both teams experience similar climates and weather systems.

As for the readiness of the pitch and facilities at BMO Field, I'm confident we won't have any issues, but if they do arise I'm pretty sure there is an agreement with Rogers Centre to host an emergency match or two if it's needed.

Well Washington DC being much further south is actually quite a bit warmer in the winter months then Toronto, on average about 10 degrees warmer. But that said Washington can still get cold days and bad snow storms. Usually by middle and end march our temperatures are usually really warming up compared to beginning of March anyways. But this winter who knows, its been a bad one. Most likely I don't think anything to crazy tho.

Month of March
Washington Average high- +13
Average Low- +3

Denver Average High - +12
Average Low - -3

Toronto Average High- +5
Average Low- -4

[Cashcleaner]

^ Well now don't I look like a proper asshole. :lol:

To be honest, I'm really surprised with Denver having an average high of +12 in March. I mean, that city is sitting at a mile above sea-level!

As an aside, I believe we were playing Dallas in April 2013 and were going through a bit of a cold and wet spell here in Toronto. Dallas on the other hand was going through a warm and dry period, and had played four out of their five previous games either home or in an even warmer location. We ended up getting a draw from that match from an opponent who had 4 wins out of 5 up until that point and I wouldn't be surprised if weather played a noticeable role in that match.

[Brooker]

I'm still cold from the home opener against Seattle. Can't believe that was 5 years ago. Let's do that again, it was great atmosphere.

[glaze]

3 weeks til opening day and it still feels like deep winter out there. My optimism about BMO being ready for opening day is fading quickly. The Dome opener in the past really didnt feel like an opener, I hope we don't end up there again.

[tfcleeds]

It will be cold, but it will be open. I imagine conditions will be much like the Seattle opener in Year 3.

[ag futbol]

I'm still cold from the home opener against Seattle. Can't believe that was 5 years ago. Let's do that again, it was great atmosphere.yeah I remember that too, hard to believe it was that long ago.

I suspect they'll go to the dome if we don't have a warm spell soon. Gives them an opportunity to open big with all the new signings and avoids the possible facility damage at a non-winterized BMO

[Pint]

I would say 0.00001% chance we go to the dome for the opener.

It is a few weeks away and the complexity of making such a switch would be large; game ops, ticket sales, advertising etc would already be in full swing.

[Shakes McQueen]

Is there a possibility they could reschedule the match for a gap later in the season, if it's still polar vortexin' out there? Our next home game after Mar 22, isn't until mid-April.

- Scott

[jazzy]

Someone who knows more than me:

How hard is it to heat/insulate pipes?

one can put electronic heat trace on them , which is basically warm wire heaters to keep the pipes from freezing. Fire hose cabinets in cold environments have them. And then a qualityinsulation covering the pipes , is a second step . It really isn't that hard or big of a job . The more problematic situation is toilets , heat in the washrooms , wash basins....One wonders if any of the pipes were foolishly buried in cement or underground....which makes everything a seek and destroy mission ....then rebuild

[Red CB Toronto]

Is there a possibility they could reschedule the match for a gap later in the season, if it's still polar vortexin' out there? Our next home game after Mar 22, isn't until mid-April.

- Scott

I know it is a complete crapshoot when it comes to March/April weather, it could be 20 degrees and sunny or freezing cold and snowy. Considering that, even though the dome is not ideal, anything in March should be played there in my mind.

[akoto]

I've rather enjoyed the games we've played at the Dome. Atmosphere in the supporters section has been great and the outcomes have been pretty good too.

[james]

^ Well now don't I look like a proper asshole. :lol:

To be honest, I'm really surprised with Denver having an average high of +12 in March. I mean, that city is sitting at a mile above sea-level!

As an aside, I believe we were playing Dallas in April 2013 and were going through a bit of a cold and wet spell here in Toronto. Dallas on the other hand was going through a warm and dry period, and had played four out of their five previous games either home or in an even warmer location. We ended up getting a draw from that match from an opponent who had 4 wins out of 5 up until that point and I wouldn't be surprised if weather played a noticeable role in that match.

hahaha

I am actually surprised we aren't playing our first 2 or 3 games away in warmer climate places, we use to do that. Well I think this is the earliest we have played at BMO field anyways.

[ManUtd4ever]

At this rate, it should be a balmy -2 for the home opener. No worries.

[james]

I've rather enjoyed the games we've played at the Dome. Atmosphere in the supporters section has been great and the outcomes have been pretty good too.

ya we had some great Tifos and banners at Sky Dome as Well. We got so much more space at the front to hang banners then we do at BMO field. it kind of cool for a one off game at sky Dome every now and then.

[Yohan]

I've rather enjoyed the games we've played at the Dome. Atmosphere in the supporters section has been great and the outcomes have been pretty good too.
too bad about the shitty sightlines and the turf. I hate Skydome games.

[akoto]

too bad about the shitty sightlines and the turf. I hate Skydome games.

The sightlines for the supporters sections were better then BMO. Being raised up that high gave a much better view of the entire pitch.

[Yohan]

The sightlines for the supporters sections were better then BMO. Being raised up that high gave a much better view of the entire pitch.
I needed binoculars to see what was going on in the other side of the field it felt like

[Red4ever]

I hate skydome games. The building sucks the soul out of sports.

[akoto]

I needed binoculars to see what was going on in the other side of the field it felt like

Sorry to hear that. I had no issues what so ever and I was in the last row of the supporters section. I'm not saying I would rather play there, I'm just saying it was fine for me when we needed it.

[ryan]

I hate skydome games. The building sucks the soul out of sports.

In almost all areas I agree, but it's really decent for what it's intended for....baseball. 50K people for a Jays v Yankees/Red Sox is a pretty damn good time. Sightlines for baseball are pretty good all over the whole park.


But for everything else, wholeheartedly agree.

[Yohan]

there is also a reason why teams are getting away from multi purpose stadiums and going to SSS (Seattle being an exception, yet a lot of their fans also want a SSS)
places like Skydome kills atmosphere

[Jack]

I've got Sorels, longjohns and a parka, so I'm good for a March game.

[nfitz]

According to this long-range forecasr, it should start to warm up (at least to + highs, and lows no colder than -5) by mid-March.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/ca/toronto/m5g/month/55488?monyr=3/01/2014


March 22 is forecasted to be +2 degrees and overcast.

I haven't seen that site before. I tend to use (for work purposes) the 14-day forecast from The Weather Network, which is very Toronto-centric. Accuweather seems to be American.

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/14-day-weather-trend/canada/ontario/toronto

The 14-day Toronto forecast from the Weather Network is normally pretty good for trends.

The contrast between the forecasts is interesting. They are very similar for 7 days, and then they really diverge. Accuweather has Saturday March 15 at a high of 10° and low of 1°. Weather Network has a high of -1° and a low of -4°.

Accuweather looks very promising for the week of the 15th to the 22nd. I hope it's right. Let's see what Weather Network is showing by the end of the week.

I'd think if the highs are still below freezing every day, they'll simply cancel, because of the bathroom issue. And quite frankly, with injuries, and a team that still needs to learn how to play together ... I'm quite happy to put the match off.

[Red CB Toronto]

This is about having 20,000 people in the building and not just the 2,000 or so die hard supporters that we are. It has been proven time after time the casual ticket holder/buyer will stay away when the weather goes to crap.

[LFC8]

Personally, i felt like the game against the Galaxy at Rogers Centre had a way better atmosphere than any game i've been to at BMO.

[ensco]

From a strictly competitive pov, imho the thinking fan is rooting for a deep freeze and wants this game postponed.

If it's anywhere below 7 or 8 celsius at 4.30pm (which seems exceedingly likely), Defoe will sit.

We haven't looked ready to start the season and can use all the extra time we can get to practice.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Personally, i felt like the game against the Galaxy at Rogers Centre had a way better atmosphere than any game i've been to at BMO.

As it should have.

That was a Champions League game.

[CBTFC]

like nfitz, the only weather forecast source I truly trust is the weather network. cp24 is far to general/etc.

seems like there's a small chance it'll even hit the 0 degree mark come march 22nd, but a lot can change in 2 weeks.

[Ageroo]

A couple of years ago National Sports was selling the red TFC stadium jackets for 40 bucks if I recall....best purchase I ever made....will be sporting this on the 22 I am pretty sure.

[BuSaPuNk]

A couple of years ago National Sports was selling the red TFC stadium jackets for 40 bucks if I recall....best purchase I ever made....will be sporting this on the 22 I am pretty sure.

They were also selling them last game of the season for $39 tax in at BMO. Agreed best investment I've made. Havnt taken that thing off outside those balmy days we've had last month.

[nfitz]

If it's anywhere below 7 or 8 celsius at 4.30pm (which seems exceedingly likely), Defoe will sit. Why? He's been playing in English winters for years. He'll be used to playing at cooler temperatures than that.

[ensco]

Why? He's been playing in English winters for years. He'll be used to playing at cooler temperatures than that.

Hamstring. Age.

Managing risk - can you imagine if he goes down in the opener?

Also it's not exactly common for it to get down below 5c in England. 1-2 games a year max I'd say.

[Cashcleaner]

^ I know I've been to a couple of chilly EPL games. I don't think -5 or would be too much of a shock for someone like Defoe, but I agree the conditions wouldn't be particularly ideal. Anyway, the long-range forecast sees the temperature slowly slipping up towards 0 degrees next week so all this talk may be moot come the 22nd.

Of course, rain would definitely compound matters. Cold is one thing, but wet and cold is another.

[Suds]

At this point anything about 0° will feel like beach weather. Bring it on!!

[ensco]

Forgot about Gilberto's hip problem. There's a real chance he won't play either.

But it sounds like the game is essentially sold out and it will be a ton of fun to see BMO filled, regardless of who plays.

Just don't get upset if they trot Wiedeman out there.

[LFC8]

As it should have.

That was a Champions League game.

Yeah, but half the people there didn't even know that lol

[Petor]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh9-XfACQAAueYz.jpg:large

[mastermixer]

^^ that is a beautiful sight!

[Kaz]

by all accounts it is going to be in and around 0.

of course there is no way to actually know for sure as it is 17 days out still and it's really hard to predict weather with any real certainty more then 36 hours out. The trend right now is 0 or higher.

[CBTFC]

by all accounts it is going to be in and around 0.


Your prediction still holds...for now. According to TWN 14 day trend, the 22nd calls for 3 degrees and a chance of flurries. But still pretty chilly for the few days leading up.

Pipes would still be frozen thought right? (I'm not a plumber/home owner, so I'm not versed in this area).

[KRO]

Your prediction still holds...for now. According to TWN 14 day trend, the 22nd calls for 3 degrees and a chance of flurries. But still pretty chilly for the few days leading up.

Pipes would still be frozen thought right? (I'm not a plumber/home owner, so I'm not versed in this area).

Tarps, space heaters and spend a fortune on propane

[Super]

As long as it doesn't rain, then I'll be happy. Don't care about the cold weather. Just don't want to be rained on for 90 minutes+.

[tfcleeds]

Rain, sleet, snow, hail, fire, earthquake......I'll be there. Just have to make sure I'm warmed up with plenty of booze beforehand!

[BuSaPuNk]

Rain, sleet, snow, hail, fire, earthquake......I'll be there. Just have to make sure I'm warmed up with plenty of booze beforehand!

Same here. Bring on the weather!

No matter what were like mail carriers nothing keeps us from support!

[Super]

Not sure I would show up at BMO if it was on fire. I'm a part-time supporter that way. :p

[C.Ronaldo]

it would be a nice gesture to sell affordable hot chocolate and/or coffee.

thermos woundnt be allowed would it :/ :drinking:

[OgtheDim]

it would be a nice gesture to sell affordable hot chocolate and/or coffee.

..

Shhhh............don't give them any ideas.

The $2 hot chocolate is the best deal at BMO.

[OgtheDim]

http://instagram.com/p/lfgNpIAvP4/


Get out the shovels oh men and women of MLSE.

[ryan]

Not sure I would show up at BMO if it was on fire. I'm a part-time supporter that way. :p

Considering how cold this winter has been, I'm all in.

[lanarkist]

http://instagram.com/p/lfgNpIAvP4/


Get out the shovels oh men and women of MLSE.

WINTER SCHEDULE!!!!!! lol

[Shakes McQueen]

I'm hardcore unless it's above 25 degrees or below 15 degrees at BMO. :D

- Scott

[ManUtd4ever]

If the forecast holds up, 3 degrees is going to feel like the tropics after the bloody winter we just experienced.

[Redcoe15]

All you need to know about long range forecasts in Canada is right here:

wkDvqQKGgDA

g:D

[Justin10000]

As it stand, it's supposed to be a high of 3, low of of -2.

[Cas87]

As it stand, it's supposed to be a high of 3, low of of -2.

T-shirt weather, sweet!

[Joe Kool]

I have never seen stats of how often forecasts are right but I do recall seeing an interview with a popular Toronto meteorologist and she said anything past 24 hrs is not really accurate because of so many variables.

[FluSH]

As long as it doesn't rain, then I'll be happy. Don't care about the cold weather. Just don't want to be rained on for 90 minutes+.

We win when it raaaaains
we win when it raaaaaaaaaaaaains
bring on the liquid!
we win when it rains!
Dadada dadada dadada

[Super]

We win when it raaaaains
we win when it raaaaaaaaaaaaains
bring on the liquid!
we win when it rains!
Dadada dadada dadada

LOL. I wish! It rained 17 out of 19 games last year apparently.

[nascarguy]

it's calling for some snow and -3

[glaze]

snow, freezing rain 2 - 4 degrees.
should be interesting out there.
At the relocation event they said the stands were too slick and icy to permit people to go up them.
I'm interested to see how TFC handles the opener tommorow. That stadium may be a giant accident waiting to happen.

[Heart of Stone]

But it would be great for a Leafs outdoor game...

[Cas87]

Weather Network say clear as of 8am all the way until Sunday morning.

3 degrees, feeling -1

[tfcleeds]

Well, it could always be worse - we could be in Colorado...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/03/21/another-snow-clasico-dicks-sporting-good-park-colorado-rapids-say-game-will-

[Redcoe15]

Bring the cold!

We're ready!