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JavierMartini
02-14-2014, 09:05 PM
Why I'd love to see Morgan starting, with Jackson and Gilberto playing on the same side.
http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2014/02/934554_Toronto_FC.jpg

It's pretty clear to everyone that neither Gilberto nor Jackson speak English. Moreover the speed of Jackson seems well suited for the footwork of Gilberto. While everyone in the uniform is a professional, the little things surely count. Having no language barrier would only be a plus.

On the other side I'd say the opposite is true. Rey with his immaculate footwork could easily play with the speed of Defoe. If we abuse the flanks this year (especially with Morgan making runs) Space opens up for Osario in the middle of the pitch. I can only dream of the overlapping run of Morgan with Defoe as a Target and Gilberto to poach.

Then Jackson using his speed to make space in the pocket for Osario or Gilberto for a rocket on goal. The Case for Morgan starting should be clear. He is fast, with the ability to whip balls in low behind the defense. Morgan's weakness could be defended with the recent upgrade in net. Julio Cesar is one of the best shot stoppers I know.

What do you think about our team going forward? Will Morgan be a staple in the starting lineup? Do you think the Brazilians will play together?

khso11
02-14-2014, 10:07 PM
I think that Morgan still lacks the defensive ability. I've never seen him block an opponent’s cross; his anticipation of what the opponent would do is quite poor. Though I think we have the veterans here to teach him on the defensive side of things, he still has the potential to do what an attacking LB could do (eg. Alaba from Bayern Munich). I could see him as one of the club’s best LB in the future, but it’s still too early to let him start. I think we should let Morrow to do the job.

SiguenzaFC
02-16-2014, 12:18 AM
I would like to see Justin Morrow and De Rosario instead of Morgan and Ososrio. They're older, more compossed, seasoned veterans IMO. As the season advances everyone will get their chance though. Except for Quillian Roberts lol

TFCwestcan
02-16-2014, 02:05 AM
That is a pretty kick ass line up with or without Morgan, I think Dero and Osorio will split duties, Dike will likely come in occasional for Gilberto or Defoe, although as I type this I really wonder...some cat with time on their hands needs to compile the starting line-ups for the last seven years just for a laugh or a cry (Paging Rollins...)

Gazza
02-16-2014, 02:10 AM
I see De Ro as the super sub and playing a more prominent role during the world cup

prizby
02-16-2014, 10:26 AM
Then Jackson using his speed to make space in the pocket for Osario or Gilberto for a rocket on goal. The Case for Morgan starting should be clear. He is fast, with the ability to whip balls in low behind the defense. Morgan's weakness could be defended with the recent upgrade in net. Julio Cesar is one of the best shot stoppers I know.

Justin Morrow tested the best of all TFC players in the beep test; he is also a very good crosser of the ball; saw a video posted by tfc where he gets some good curve on the cross; I think Morrow offers more defensively and is really, really fit

Morgan's best success (assists) were when Danny Koevermans (a big target man) was on the pitch; he suffered last year with a smaller guy in Robert Earnshaw in place.

SoccMan2
02-16-2014, 10:56 AM
The left back position is Morrow's to lose, they did not pick him up to sit on the bench. Morrow has more experience than Morgan, Morgan did not show me last year that he is ready to be a starter on a hopefully good MLS team that I'm hoping TFC will be this year. Look we had another crappy season last year and if you were a player who played major minutes on that team last year then you bear some of the fault for the team being crappy I'm sorry that is just the way I feel. Therefore, the less I see of players from last year as starters this year the better, that is my thought process with the exception of a few players who in spite of the bad season the team had last year showed a lot of promise, Osorio,Caldwell, Rey and Bendik, but the Wiedmans, Halls and Lambes of the world the less of the pitch they see the better this team will be.

shwade
02-16-2014, 11:54 AM
I see De Ro as the super sub and playing a more prominent role during the world cup

He probably has it written in to his contract this time...that he must start the season on the first XI.

SiguenzaFC
02-16-2014, 01:46 PM
Probably a slow news day for Toronto FC, so I give you a video of Gilberto's goals for Portuguesa last year. I made it for my Sport Management course, they're all in chronological order. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18hkWrt9ZHY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

JavierMartini
02-16-2014, 07:08 PM
Justin Morrow tested the best of all TFC players in the beep test; he is also a very good crosser of the ball; saw a video posted by tfc where he gets some good curve on the cross; I think Morrow offers more defensively and is really, really fit

Morgan's best success (assists) were when Danny Koevermans (a big target man) was on the pitch; he suffered last year with a smaller guy in Robert Earnshaw in place.


You are completely right. It must have slipped my mind when i was typing this. However Morgan frequently preferred to wip them in behind the defence. I think it could work very well playing off of Defoe. I'm highlighting Morgans straight line speed and his quick whipped in balls. However both Rey and Morrow do have a good bend.

The problem with Earnshaw is that he did not have the speed to get onto searching balls behind the back line. If he did get the ball he didnt posess the footwork to create the space and attempt on goal. He was a through and through poacher. This year we will have Defoe (speed, footwork and a good shot.) and Gilberto (strength, footwork and a frigging rocket of a lead foot.) I see us having the ability to play many different ways. We have Jackson in the midfield (I hope) to run off of Gilberto, creating space for anyone . We have Osario to find pockets and either go for the shot or thread a through ball into Defoe. We also have Rey to hold up the ball in the midfield or beat defenders up field and deliver a cross into or behind the back like for the plethora of options we have.


I really hope Nelsen rotates the squad efficiently to keep everyone good and fresh. Certain tactics seem to resonate with whatever rotation of players he goes with. We have loads of speed , a few deadly shots from range a solid defensive core.

[NBF]
02-16-2014, 08:06 PM
You are completely right. It must have slipped my mind when i was typing this. However Morgan frequently preferred to wip them in behind the defence. I think it could work very well playing off of Defoe. I'm highlighting Morgans straight line speed and his quick whipped in balls. However both Rey and Morrow do have a good bend.

The problem with Earnshaw is that he did not have the speed to get onto searching balls behind the back line. If he did get the ball he didnt posess the footwork to create the space and attempt on goal. He was a through and through poacher. This year we will have Defoe (speed, footwork and a good shot.) and Gilberto (strength, footwork and a frigging rocket of a lead foot.) I see us having the ability to play many different ways. We have Jackson in the midfield (I hope) to run off of Gilberto, creating space for anyone . We have Osario to find pockets and either go for the shot or thread a through ball into Defoe. We also have Rey to hold up the ball in the midfield or beat defenders up field and deliver a cross into or behind the back like for the plethora of options we have.


I really hope Nelsen rotates the squad efficiently to keep everyone good and fresh. Certain tactics seem to resonate with whatever rotation of players he goes with. We have loads of speed , a few deadly shots from range a solid defensive core.


Gilberto, played in 4-2-2-2, usually on the left flank. IMO, we needed a big target man to play infront of Defoe, but now we're stuck with two small DP strikers that will find it hard to score goals with the other team parking the bus. The only solution might be to play Bradley behind them to find them with accuracy.

-----------Gilberto---------Defoe----------
----------DeRosario-------Wiedeman-------
-------------------------------------------
-------------------Bradley-----------------
-------------------Osorio------------------
Morrow-----------------------------Jackson
Rey---------------------------------Lambe
--------------------Laba------------------
--------------------Hall-------------------
-------------------------------------------
Morgan-----Caldwell------Henry---------Orr
Richter-----Agboss-------Bloom------------
-------------------------------------------
--------------------Cesar------------------
-------------------Bendik------------------

sashavukelich
02-16-2014, 08:33 PM
no way Morgan starts of Morrow. Morrow is definitively our LB.

TFCwestcan
02-16-2014, 08:39 PM
Another example on how this year is different, you look at the depth and say jeez can't Dero play as well, or cannot Osorio be on the pitch with Bradley, or will Bekker even see the field this year?. It is a strange feeling having decent depth. I'm loving it. I like the optimism of including Laba, maybe next year.

I concur about Morrow being the starter. Also NBF you are missing Rey as starter.

spark
02-16-2014, 09:56 PM
;1643657']Gilberto, played in 4-2-2-2, usually on the left flank. IMO, we needed a big target man to play infront of Defoe, but now we're stuck with two small DP strikers that will find it hard to score goals with the other team parking the bus. The only solution might be to play Bradley behind them to find them with accuracy.

IMO this is pretty accurate. I don't agree w the formation - from what I saw in looking at vids for his games where he scored (w Portuguesa and some w Recife) he was a lone CF. What I thought was interesting in the vid package from SiguenzaFC is that 3 of his goals were PGs. I don't think he'll be assigned that with TFC so knock that off his total. From what I saw in that vid only 6-7 goals I would fully credit to him, or ones that didn't depend on great support that won't be available in MLS.

Both Defoe and Gilberto aren't known for their passing and I'd expect many teams to either park the bus as you've suggested or double team them when they gain possession. I like the suggestion of Bradley playing behind them as we need someone who can provide good service but also draw attention away from either striker as he has been able to be a proven scorer in the past. I don't see Bradley as a number 10, I guess we'll see, but I'd rather see him pushed forward more than deployed as a younger version of Frings. But that also depends on the Laba deal and I think he'll go so Bradley will be the holding mid.

prizby
02-16-2014, 11:06 PM
;1643657']Gilberto, played in 4-2-2-2, usually on the left flank. IMO, we needed a big target man to play infront of Defoe, but now we're stuck with two small DP strikers that will find it hard to score goals with the other team parking the bus. The only solution might be to play Bradley behind them to find them with accuracy.

-----------Gilberto---------Defoe----------
----------DeRosario-------Wiedeman-------
-------------------------------------------
-------------------Bradley-----------------
-------------------Osorio------------------
Morrow-----------------------------Jackson
Rey---------------------------------Lambe
--------------------Laba------------------
--------------------Hall-------------------
-------------------------------------------
Morgan-----Caldwell------Henry---------Orr
Richter-----Agboss-------Bloom------------
-------------------------------------------
--------------------Cesar------------------
-------------------Bendik------------------

huh?

Dike?
Haggland?

Laba will be gone

Richter at LB despite him training as a CB since last October?

Kaz
02-17-2014, 01:55 AM
IMO this is pretty accurate. I don't agree w the formation - from what I saw in looking at vids for his games where he scored (w Portuguesa and some w Recife) he was a lone CF. What I thought was interesting in the vid package from SiguenzaFC is that 3 of his goals were PGs. I don't think he'll be assigned that with TFC so knock that off his total. From what I saw in that vid only 6-7 goals I would fully credit to him, or ones that didn't depend on great support that won't be available in MLS.

Both Defoe and Gilberto aren't known for their passing and I'd expect many teams to either park the bus as you've suggested or double team them when they gain possession. I like the suggestion of Bradley playing behind them as we need someone who can provide good service but also draw attention away from either striker as he has been able to be a proven scorer in the past. I don't see Bradley as a number 10, I guess we'll see, but I'd rather see him pushed forward more than deployed as a younger version of Frings. But that also depends on the Laba deal and I think he'll go so Bradley will be the holding mid.

Gilberto actually played as a winger when with Sport and can hit from the edges. If you put in in a second floating CF position he is much more lethal, in much the way DeRo was.

I can see this happening from time to time.

-----------Dike-------------Defoe----------

------------------Gilberto------------------

Rey--------------------------------Jackson

-------------------Bradley-----------------

Morrow-----Caldwell------Henry---------Orr

-------------------Cesar------------------

or

-----------Dero------------Defoe----------

Rey--------------Osorio------------Gilberto

-----------------Bradley-------------------

Morrow-----Caldwell------Henry---------Orr

-------------------Cesar------------------

spark
02-17-2014, 09:52 AM
Gilberto actually played as a winger when with Sport and can hit from the edges. If you put in in a second floating CF position he is much more lethal, in much the way DeRo was.


That is fair, I won't discount he might be able to adapt/adjust, however his most potent stretch in his career came up top, pretty much as 'the man'. I searched the goals he scored at Recife and there was definitely at least one I saw where he was up top alone (v Botafogo) and another (v Athletico) where he was positioned centrally - from what I see from his time there (25 appearances, 16 starts, 9 subs) he might have at times been put wherever he was needed based on being subbed in for someone as Recife where in relegation trouble most of the year and likely the coach was tinkering to get the best combination to survive. You seem to have a handle on his career so no sweat if I'm wrong, feel free to correct!

Everything I read/heard from Bez et al. however, is that he's been brought here to score goals. He won't be able to do that from the wings and not sure in that floating CF spot behind two strikers as you've drawn up that he'll get as many opportunities (or the same type that made him prolific at Portuguesa). This has been my concern with him coming on board - is that we also need to look at the circumstances that allowed him to do so well last year - I don't have high expectations of him this year but have seen here some expect him to score 15-20. Even scoring 10 I think should be considered a huge success as there is nothing here that indicates he'll be given the same role at Portuguesa to duplicate the set up that made him catch the eye of many teams.

That position as well (first line-up), I'd hope would be locked down by someone who can provide service to the two guys in front of him - that is not a strength we've heard of from Gilberto, but perhaps he's young enough to adapt and considering his background would hope he still might have the technical capability to still be better at service than most here in N.America.

Anyway, my point with the last post was that some of the expectations of him are a bit too high and off the top from his totals last year you need to knock off 3 goals as I'd be very surprised if he would be allowed to take penalties. TFC paid almost 10x more for Defoe so I can guarantee you they will be giving him every opportunity on a silver platter to get all the service needed to succeed. I'd guess TFC might start the year with Gilberto and Defoe up top, and might initially see some success but as time goes and if the goals dry up a bit, it will be Gilberto, not Defoe who will likely be the casualty in sitting or being moved out of position. I also appreciate your formations are what will bring TFC the best success, not Gilberto so hopefully I wasn't rambling too much without taking that into consideration!

tfcocd
02-17-2014, 10:33 AM
Gilberto actually played as a winger when with Sport and can hit from the edges. If you put in in a second floating CF position he is much more lethal, in much the way DeRo was.

I can see this happening from time to time.

-----------Dike-------------Defoe----------

------------------Gilberto------------------

Rey--------------------------------Jackson

-------------------Bradley-----------------

Morrow-----Caldwell------Henry---------Orr

-------------------Cesar------------------

or

-----------Dero------------Defoe----------

Rey--------------Osorio------------Gilberto

-----------------Bradley-------------------

Morrow-----Caldwell------Henry---------Orr

-------------------Cesar------------------

A lot more formation options to work with and now roster looks to have some depth on paper with dero/dike on bench and Morgan, hall, bloom, agboss, wiedeman, bendiq. (Ideally Laba in this mix)

Here was Mid July 2013 starting 11:

------earnshaw ------- brockie --------

-- convey -- Laba ----- russel --Osorio

--Morgan -- agboss -- Caldwell -- ecks

------------ Bendik -------------------


By this time fully 11 players shipped out since opening day and the first phase of transformation was on:

in: Caldwell, convey, Thomas, Laba, brockie, richter, bloom (Rey not signed but may have been trialling)

out: Emory, Califf, silva, Stinson, dun field, ephraim, bennet, bostock, t Morgan, odea and the 'other' Cesar.

ag futbol
02-17-2014, 11:08 AM
Until Morgan learns to cut in or use his right foot his effectiveness going forward will be extremely limited. Everyone in the league knows he's just going to try and beat you for pace and he is one-footed to a fault.

cincy
02-17-2014, 11:27 AM
Our second team could compete with last years first team

................. Dike - Wiedeman....................
Dero ..........Osorio.... Hall ............ Lambe
Morgan.......Agboss ....Hagglund....Richter
..........................Bendik.................. ........

Kaz
02-17-2014, 12:15 PM
That is fair, I won't discount he might be able to adapt/adjust, however his most potent stretch in his career came up top, pretty much as 'the man'. I searched the goals he scored at Recife and there was definitely .........

truncated

.......Anyway, my point with the last post was that some of the expectations of him are a bit too high and off the top from his totals last year you need to knock off 3 goals as I'd be very surprised if he would be allowed to take penalties. TFC paid almost 10x more for Defoe so I can guarantee you they will be giving him every opportunity on a silver platter to get all the service needed to succeed. I'd guess TFC might start the year with Gilberto and Defoe up top, and might initially see some success but as time goes and if the goals dry up a bit, it will be Gilberto, not Defoe who will likely be the casualty in sitting or being moved out of position. I also appreciate your formations are what will bring TFC the best success, not Gilberto so hopefully I wasn't rambling too much without taking that into consideration!

Keep in mind DeRo scored his highest goal totals in that floating role as it opened him up and gave him space.

As a sometimes Winger he score 7 goals in 25 games.

And his 14 goals last year came from from 24 games.
even if you remove the 3 PK over 30 games that is still 14 games.

So I think our expectations are about on par..

I don't think anyone that has realistic expectations will expect more then 12-15 this season from him... assuming he adjusts. Give him some time and I think we will see 20 from him but it will take two seasons.

My point was that we have options. We can move players around a bit and come up with some surprises offensively and a player like Gilberto allows that.

prizby
02-17-2014, 12:28 PM
Our second team could compete with last years first team

................. Dike - Wiedeman....................
Dero ..........Osorio.... Hall ............ Lambe
Morgan.......Agboss ....Hagglund....Richter
..........................Bendik.................. ........

bloom instead of richter; richter has been playing CB since last september/october

tfcocd
02-17-2014, 12:50 PM
bloom instead of richter; richter has been playing CB since last september/october

Most likely richter as cb and bloom outside if the draft pick is not good enough to crack the 2nd 11. Trying to think if there was ever discussion of a 2nd 11 before? I am sure the 2nd 11 was not something that came up much in last 3 years! It's great news that players outside of the first 18 will have a place to play. Very interested in the name/numbers that are placed in Wilmington. Ideally playing a similar 4-4-2 style as tfc.

prizby
02-17-2014, 01:44 PM
Most likely richter as cb and bloom outside if the draft pick is not good enough to crack the 2nd 11. Trying to think if there was ever discussion of a 2nd 11 before? I am sure the 2nd 11 was not something that came up much in last 3 years! It's great news that players outside of the first 18 will have a place to play. Very interested in the name/numbers that are placed in Wilmington. Ideally playing a similar 4-4-2 style as tfc.

i made a post not too long ago:

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?34955-TFC-2013-2014-Off-Season-player-moves-speculation-rumours-etc-thread&p=1639337#post1639337

obviously a couple things have changed; we know bendik is probably the #2 goalie now and Laba is going to be moved probably elevating Osorio and replacing him with Bekker

Initial B
02-18-2014, 07:30 AM
Now that Dike's gone, DeRo now becomes our third option striker and super-sub. He won't be used as a starting midfielder unless things are desperate and the season is going down the toilet.

jloome
02-18-2014, 07:15 PM
Now that Dike's gone, DeRo now becomes our third option striker and super-sub. He won't be used as a starting midfielder unless things are desperate and the season is going down the toilet.

We should get Jordan Hamilton time as Dike's replacement. Natural target man, has finished well at youth level, is already big and strong. He's not a day-in-out player yet -- Danny D. commented recently that he doesn't understand the required speed and intensity yet to play at the pro level. But he's got a lot of raw upside.

As for starting GIlberto and DeFoe, I think that's what we'll see; DeRo, Bradley and Rey will be expected to find them regularly. Rey is underrated, I think. He looks slow, because he's big for a winger, but he's got good acceleration and he can dribble like a motherfucker. If he can put some balls in low, Defoe will love that.