Who should be team captain? Caldwell or Bradley?

[Oldtimer]

So, who would you choose?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Bradley.

New team philosophy. It's no insult to Caldwell who is a leader for sure I just think it's important to stress the change in the team.

[tfcleeds]

If Bradley just missed out on being captain of the USMNT (and still could be in the future), then I don't see why he shouldn't be captain here. That's not a reflection on Caldwell's leadership.

[Joe Kool]

Impossible to judge without being in the locker room. Whoever is the more effective leader should be captain....period. I don't see how any of us would really know. Up to Nelsen to figure that out.

[OgtheDim]

Silly season discussion.

We don't choose. The captain is Caldwell. Bradley will be captain when Caldwell is gone.


More importantly:

We have a number of leaders on this team. That's a good thing.

[Stress]

Silly season discussion.

We don't choose. The captain is Caldwell. Bradley will be captain when Caldwell is gone.


More importantly:

We have a number of leaders on this team. That's a good thing.

Agreed - it's defo Caldwell. Bradley seems like an approachable guy but I'm sure some of the lower paid guys would be more comfortable voicing any issues with Caldwell first.

[WestStandGeoff]

Bradley being considered for USMNT captain definitely helps make a case that he should be club captain too, but more than that I just don't see a reason to take it away from Caldwell. He did a great job last year, and has proven his leadership. Even if Bradley is a phenomenal locker room leader, it's probably best to make him vice this season then switch roles for next year in order to not unsettle the dressing room too much.

[Thomas]

Caldwell was a stand out, but it's Bradley's time now....and I think he is up to the job.

[Relja]

Caldwell is the captain. Bradley needs to earn it wearing the red. Im sure he'll get it soon but Caldwell is captain until Bradley earns it for the team

[Red CB Toronto]

It is Caldwell all the way for me. Outside of your departure from a team, I truly believe you have to do some detrimental to the club to loose the captaincy.

[JuliquE]

Sorry to re-post this.. but, yeh -- good that we have a thread, now, where my reply is most applicable.

There are a few different schools of thought, here:

If you give the captaincy to one of the DP's, whilst they would likely have the qualities to be successful in such a role, it might prove an uphill battle, given that it would be tough for them to empathize and demand better from the younger/lesser paid players, without being forced into a parental/babysitting role (subsidizing for them, as has been mentioned elsewhere). This could eventually take it's toll on whomever would be named captain, perhaps when we need them the most.

I also agree with Yohan, that stripping Caldwell of the captaincy sends the wrong message. He is, arguably, the best choice, having played at the highest levels, whilst still being on a comparable contract to the majority of players in the league. As such, he will be able to relate to everyone, which will help him. There's also something to be said of his apparent willingness to take on the role, in what was a tumultuous 2013 season. 47 goals allowed vs. 62 is a significant improvement, and that with him arriving mid-season -- not a balance you'd want to mess with, especially if we see new faces in the backline; players from the previous season will have formed an understanding with him and that respect will be there, but, with all the new faces (not only in the backline, mind), emphasizing his importance and, simultaneously, that of defending, through him retaining the armband, may prove crucial -- not that I think he's the type to mope around about it, were he not to retain the captaincy.

Winter used to say that he's not a fan of the keeper having the armband, as he is less likely to approach the ref. to get across the side's grievances and contest decisions, given that it would require leaving his goal untended (imagine a quick free-kick scenario); keepers have a limited time to set their walls and, so, even if the ref. insists on play restarting only after he's blown his whistle, there's hardly a window for the keeper-captain to get a word in. I do, however, agree that it's important to emphasize the importance of the defence-first mentality, with having a defender as captain.. especially when you consider that, to be fair, some offensive-minded players don't always carry their weight, when out of possession; a defender, being in the last line, before the keeper, in goal, will, instinctively, always keep others not doing their part in check -- the captaincy just gives them that bit more respectability.

I'm also not so sure that Bradley has ever been a team-captain on more than a stand-in basis. If I'm honest, the whole "rah-rah" business often required of a captain doesn't particularly suit his quiet/mysterious nature and could well be misinterpreted if the role were forced upon him. Some have said he would want to be captain, but I wouldn't have thought so, myself. Defoe, as has already been mentioned, is definitely more the type to lead by example; not necessarily the quite type, as he seems to be something of a comedian, but, when it comes to the business end of things, he will do his part and hope that others will match him.

** * **

At the end of the day, man-management and leading men are, quite possibly, Nelson's greatest qualities and I'm not as worried as it would appear some, here, are of him having a handle on things in the dressing room. With a year under his belt, now, and the respect he has garnered throughout his career, especially with his MLS background, I feel like he will have the confidence in himself, first and foremost, which will compliment his aforementioned natural talents.

The two more years (minimally) that we have with Caldwell should be enough time to, on merit, determine who's most deserving of the role of captain, for which I'm sure there will be no shortage of candidates -- certainly grounds to rejoice. =)


Right.. but, that's the U.S. national side that people think he would be a perfect fit for, as captain; language barrier and a number of other variables can sometimes play a role in whether or not a natural born leader is suited to a specific leadership role and, as much as I love, love, love this signing, the optics of an American walking in and snatching our Canadian side's armband is a totally different story, especially as we embark upon what will likely be our most memorable season, to date. Given the chance to endear himself to the fans, it could well prove to be a no-brainer for him to captain TFC.. but, with him locked up for 6 years, I don't see why we should force things and potentially cause a bit of a stir, in so doing.

I just feel like the captaincy, here, has been thrust upon nearly every past captain; I'd like for it to mean something to the person taking it on. As Shakes had alluded to, elsewhere, the players coming in aren't going to have an affinity for Toronto, the city nor club -- certainly not right away; after some time, they may well have and perhaps would aspire to take on such a role as captain.

Yes, Caldwell's not been here long, but, I don't see the rush in handing it to Bradley. You even have to wonder if Bradley and the like would have to fight off their own subconscious mind from thinking that the club is Mickey Mouse -- that they're above everyone else, when they, not only walk right into the side, but, take the captaincy from a well-respected and extremely important member of the club, as Caldwell, given the difference he's made, since joining, undoubtedly is.

We have, at least, a couple years with Caldwell, in which to see who organically stands out as a natural pick.

[burlington Red]

Let Bradley settle in his first season, he is still young enough to be captain further down the line, say 1-2 yrs. Let him take this season to concentrate on his football, get to know the city, the club and his team mates. No doubt he is captain material, but I'd be in no rush to give it to him so soon. Caldwell's 34, so he wouldn't have too many yrs left in him anyway.

[KRO]

There seems to be a tradition in North America to give the best/most high profile player in the team the captain's armband. Not so much in Europe.

Before he came here Caldwell was club captain at Birmingham even when he wasn't playing much. If he does get injured or loses his place then it's a no brainer to give Bradley the armband on match day but I see Caldwell as captain until he moves on.

[DCTFC]

I tend to agree - I think with all the changes a certain degree of continuity will be appreciated by the guys who have been around a while. Caldwell is the guy.....for now.

[Ultra & Proud]

Caldwell now as there is no reason to change with Bradley acting as Vice Captain with the thought that he will be captain when Caldwell retires or moves on.

[JuliquE]

I noticed that, when Nelson was speaking about Morrow coming into the side, he was suggesting that the role of LB is, more or less, Morgan's to lose, having shown his worth and with being, now, one of the more senior members at the club, as far as appearances are concerned; gives you a bit of incite as to how Nelson views the world.

[Abou Sky]

The armband is a sign of respect, Bradley has as of yet not given a reason on the pitch to earn that respect.

Giving it to Bradley now would be spitting in Caldwell's face IMO

[ag futbol]

Bradley.

New team philosophy. It's no insult to Caldwell who is a leader for sure I just think it's important to stress the change in the team.
Agreed. You don't kick down the type of money we did and make the long term commitment to the player we have without making him captain. It's inevitable.

But in some ways this is a formality. They'll both be providing leadership out there regardless of who wears the armband.

[Yohan]

Agreed. You don't kick down the type of money we did and make the long term commitment to the player we have without making him captain. It's inevitable.

But in some ways this is a formality. They'll both be providing leadership out there regardless of who wears the armband.
Bradley should get captaincy because he makes tons of money? That's one helluva message to send to your team.

[ag futbol]

Bradley should get captaincy because he makes tons of money? That's one helluva message to send to your team.
It's not just the money, look at the total package. He has an established track record as a leader and he sustains a high level of performance. That casts a long shadow over anyone else who is going to be "captain" while he's on the same team.

[Yohan]

It's not just the money, look at the total package. He has an established track record as a leader and he sustains a high level of performance. That casts a long shadow over anyone else who is going to be "captain" while he's on the same team.
as far as I know, Bradley has never been captain of a team permanently, for what it's worth. Caldwell, 3.

[OgtheDim]

It's not just the money, look at the total package. He has an established track record as a leader and he sustains a high level of performance. That casts a long shadow over anyone else who is going to be "captain" while he's on the same team.

Until somebody from the dressing room indicates that is true, this is speculation.

Caldwell is the captain in name and role. That's not an opinion. Its fact.

[hulkrogan]

Guy with the best angry finger point gets the armband.

Caldwell wins:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/image_nodes/2013/08/USATSI_7406941_167117770_lowres.jpg

[ag futbol]

Until somebody from the dressing room indicates that is true, this is speculation.

Caldwell is the captain in name and role. That's not an opinion. Its fact.
Well we will see, but Bradley wore the captain armband in our first preseason game, did he not?

Let's see what happens when we have a full squad, but my money is on Bradley taking it.

[THA BUTCHA]

Some Random journeymen should not be the captain of this soccer team.
Toronto FC is trying to set a new standard of quality with this club.
Therefore the captain should also set a new standard of quality.


I vote Bradley

[Yohan]

Well we will see, but Bradley wore the captain armband in our first preseason game, did he not?

Let's see what happens when we have a full squad, but my money is on Bradley taking it.only because Caldwell wasn't playing. and if you're going to use a preseason game to make a point, Jeremy Hall wore the captain's band in 2nd half ;)
though it was telling that Bradley wore the captain's band, not DeRo

[OgtheDim]

Some Random journeymen should not be the captain of this soccer team.
Toronto FC is trying to set a new standard of quality with this club.
Therefore the captain should also set a new standard of quality.


Messi is captain of whom again?

[Yohan]

Messi is captain of whom again?
or Ronaldo...

[loconet]

Although I agree original point still stands, Messi and Ronaldo are both captain of their national teams :p

[Lumpy]

Never heard of giving a captaincy to a brand new player.

[JuliquE]

Never heard of giving a captaincy to a brand new player.
Right?! I mean.. he's not even played a game for us.

This is just LMFAO!

[Yohan]

Right?! I mean.. he's not even played a game for us.

This is just LMFAO!
To be fair Frings and Caldwell wasn't with TFC for very long before they got captaincy.

[Kaz]

It should be Lambe clearly

[JuliquE]

To be fair Frings and Caldwell wasn't with TFC for very long before they got captaincy.
"Not very long" is, for me, far different to "jack squat," if you will.

Also, in the case of Caldwell, the captaincy wasn't stripped from anyone.

Worth noting, as well, that Frings took the captaincy from Maicon Fucking Santos! #ApplesOranges

[gate7]

Caldwell was clearly chosen for his leadership. I dont see why he dis-qualifies now.

[Bluenose13]

Bradley will likely be a fantastic captain of this team one day.

Caldwell is the captain, he proved to be a good captain last year and that's the way it should stay.

[pawlukj]

Bradley given the fact that Caldwell is only here until July on loan. Or better yet De Rosario for him being known as a Torontonian loyal to the fans.

[Yohan]

Bradley given the fact that Caldwell is only here until July on loan. Or better yet De Rosario for him being known as a Torontonian loyal to the fans.
boy, you haven't been paying attention. Caldwell signed a 2 and half yr deal last june/july.

and lots of articles say Captain Caldwell from yesterday

[rowjimi]

Caldwell was appointed last year and then showed that he deserved it. I voted for him to keep the armband. Michael will have his day but last year Steven showed me he was the right choice.

[jloome]

Some Random journeymen should not be the captain of this soccer team.

Who is this random journeyman you're speaking of?

[notthesun]

Doesn't matter to me. Either is a good choice, you can make an argument for either (new direction - Bradley; he earned it - Caldwell), and neither strike me as the type to get the least bit upset if they don't get it. Total non-issue for me.

[TFC_Allez]

I don't think you could go wrong with either Caldwell or Bradley. I just don't think that DeRo deserves it. Love the guy, but this is no longer his team.

[shwade]

Man, how pissed would DeRo be if they just gave Bradley the armband...

Anyway Bradley hasnt done anything for this team yet, Caldwell has been a superb captain thus far and so there is no reason to strip him of it. Plus his expiration date is coming up....Bradley can take over from then.

[JuliquE]

Man, how pissed would DeRo be if they just gave Bradley the armband...

Anyway Bradley hasnt done anything for this team yet, Caldwell has been a superb captain thus far and so there is no reason to strip him of it. Plus his expiration date is coming up....Bradley can take over from then.
The emboldened point is a very interesting one.

[Canary10]

Some Random journeymen should not be the captain of this soccer team.
Toronto FC is trying to set a new standard of quality with this club.
Therefore the captain should also set a new standard of quality.


I vote Bradley

I'm going to guess you've never played on a soccer team before.

[pdubs]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/02/14/toronto-fc-ryan-nelsen-says-no-reason-why-steven-caldwell-wont-retain-armband

Toronto FC's Ryan Nelsen: "No reason" why Steven Caldwell won't retain armband in 2014

[BuSaPuNk]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/02/14/toronto-fc-ryan-nelsen-says-no-reason-why-steven-caldwell-wont-retain-armband

Toronto FC's Ryan Nelsen: "No reason" why Steven Caldwell won't retain armband in 2014

And that's the way it should be. We all seen what happened when Caldwell came in last season. He literally turned around our backline as soon as he stepped in.

Yes Defoe, Bradley, Cesar all guys with bigger and better experience by a mile.

But Caldwell got that locker room fighting for each other last season. He should be still captain as long as he's on the pitch.

[JavierMartini]

Guy with the best angry finger point gets the armband.

Caldwell wins:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/image_nodes/2013/08/USATSI_7406941_167117770_lowres.jpg

This. He stands up for the Badge. Represents the team well.

Always gives it his all.

Caldwell is the only Captain on this team.

[ensco]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/02/14/toronto-fc-ryan-nelsen-says-no-reason-why-steven-caldwell-wont-retain-armband

Toronto FC's Ryan Nelsen: "No reason" why Steven Caldwell won't retain armband in 2014

Nelsen is kind of dancing around the question here, in my opinion. Interesting.

[Andy TFC]

They're both natural leaders, but for now I would probably say Caldwell just because of his experience.

[Mr_gamble]

Caldwell. He was the captain last season, so he should carry on for sure. If Bradley sticks around with us for a while, I've no doubt he will take the armband at some point, but for now, I want Caldwell to be wearing it.

[boozilla]

Maturity and experience usually wins out, but after last years forgettable season all bets are off.
This kind of thing is sorting itself out right now, in pre-season training. Internally.
That said, with Bradley's pedigree, you'd hope he wants it.

[Richard]

I think the status quo is good for now. Caldwell fills the role well, and there certainly isn't a shortage of leadership on the team now.

Here is my order:

Steven Caldwell
Dwayne De Rosario
Michael Bradley
Joe Bendik/Júlio César

[MartinUtd]

Even speaking to the question of vice captain, where are people coming up with De Rosario? Because he's local? I don't think we want to encourage any of that "I am the team" mantra that encourages playing with your head down and blasting shots from 30 yards. I'm willing to bet it would come down to Bradley and Defoe after Caldwell steps off the pitch.

[THA BUTCHA]

Caldwell = tfc 1.0
bradley = tfc 2.0

I look at this season as a fresh start (like an expansion team). There is very little worth keeping or remembering that tfc did on the pitch in the last 7-8 years.
I can't see the reasoning that Caldwell should be captain. He came in the middle of the season LAST YEAR also we were still shit with him on the pitch. (Our win/lose record shows this)

I saw saw one half of tfc soccer with Bradley on the pich and I can already tell we are miles better than we've been ever in our history.


The the people that think Caldwell should be captain are the same type of people that think DARCY TUCKER is on the list on greatest maple leafs of all time. I don't have a word for it. But this city is fascinated by athletes that are more goonish than skillful. But heart alone will not win games, especially soccer games.

[Mr_gamble]

A captain isn't always the best player on the pitch. I don't think Caldwell did much wrong last year. He's a leader, and he puts his heart in to the team. I see nothing wrong with keeping Caldwell as the captain. It's not his fault we had a bad season. Many teams keep captains after bad seasons.

[OgtheDim]

....But this city is fascinated by athletes that are more goonish than skillful. But heart alone will not win games, especially soccer games.



If you think Caldwell is about heart and goonishness and has no skill, you were not watching last season.


That and I think you have a poor understanding as to what a football captain actually does.

[Canary10]

....But this city is fascinated by athletes that are more goonish than skillful. But heart alone will not win games, especially soccer games.


Ha ha!! This comment is coming from a guy named THA BUTCHA!!

[Oldtimer]

Since Nelsen has said that Caldwell is captain, it seems like the fans and the gaffer are on the same page.

[BuSaPuNk]

Caldwell = tfc 1.0
bradley = tfc 2.0

I look at this season as a fresh start (like an expansion team). There is very little worth keeping or remembering that tfc did on the pitch in the last 7-8 years.
I can't see the reasoning that Caldwell should be captain. He came in the middle of the season LAST YEAR also we were still shit with him on the pitch. (Our win/lose record shows this)

I saw saw one half of tfc soccer with Bradley on the pich and I can already tell we are miles better than we've been ever in our history.


The the people that think Caldwell should be captain are the same type of people that think DARCY TUCKER is on the list on greatest maple leafs of all time. I don't have a word for it. But this city is fascinated by athletes that are more goonish than skillful. But heart alone will not win games, especially soccer games.

This is one of the most assbackward references I've heard ever.

There's no denying the fact that as soon as Caldwell was put in that dressing room and given the armband players were more accountable.

He one of the most professional players on and off the pitch this city has seen. There's no question Caldwell is the captain of this squad.

Plus having guys like Bradley, Defoe, DeRo on the pitch brings more leadership but I think they are more of leaders by example.

Let the younger guys see how they play with passion and push each other for better out of each and everyone of them. There still leaders, just without the armband.

[T-boy]

....But this city is fascinated by athletes that are more goonish than skillful. But heart alone will not win games, especially soccer games.


Ha ha!! This comment is coming from a guy named THA BUTCHA!!

I think Tha Butcha may be confusing Caldwell with Terry Dunfield! Caldwell is probably the most skillful and experienced CB's we've ever had at the club.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The the people that think Caldwell should be captain are the same type of people that think DARCY TUCKER is on the list on greatest maple leafs of all time. I don't have a word for it. But this city is fascinated by athletes that are more goonish than skillful. But heart alone will not win games, especially soccer games.

It's comments like these, gross generalizations that lend nothing to the valid point you make above it.

[shwade]

This is one of the most assbackward references I've heard ever.

Right?? If Tha Butcha had his way Messi, neymar, c ronaldo, ribery Etcetcetc should all be pissssssssed.

[Phil]

Well for a captains role I think going with the best pure player on the pitch isn't always the best route. Its a character thing in the dressing room, its a leadership quality with core positions and interaction with up and coming players.

I rely on the coaching staff who work / play with these guys and see the characteristics that they value for our team to be the decider on who gets that role. I am fine with Caldwell retaining that role, but can understand if they think Bradley is the better fit.

[jabbronies]

Caldwell should be Captain.
Bradley may be the better player, but that doesn't mean he should be captain. Not yet at least.

Bradley is unproven in this league - when he was here last, it was a different league.
Give the guy a season or two to actually prove himself before heaving honours and leadership roles on him.

Caldwell is only here to transition the team - If all goes to plan, he'll be gone in a year or two having a younger replacement take over his spot. That's when Bradley - if he proves himself - should be considered for the captain role.

[THA BUTCHA]

Ok. So we will all agree to disagree.

but let's make a bet: By the 10th game of this season Bradley will be captain of this team.

If I'm wrong I will by the moderators of this forum a beer at the following home game.

deal?

[MartinUtd]

Ok. So we will all agree to disagree.

but let's make a bet: By the 10th game of this season Bradley will be captain of this team.

If I'm wrong I will by the moderators of this forum a beer at the following home game.

deal?

I'll take that bet because I know where to find you in 110 and you likely don't know who I am.

[THA BUTCHA]

*shakes hand*

ill make sure to come thirsty to this game. :?)

[Mr_gamble]

If Caldwell starts the season as captain, the only reason he wouldn't be captain come game 10 is because of injury or if he loses his place on the team. I have never seen a team change captains mid season just because the team isn't performing up to scratch.

[SamK]

http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2014/03/04/steven-caldwell-march-4-2014

When asked about Bradley Caldwell says he's a future captain of the club. Doesn't have to mean this year but it's coming up