Expansion: Miami

[RealG-TFC]

Well, its looking like a Miami-based team is a sure thing.

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/mls-expansion-deal-good-as-done-major-league-soccer-about-to-announce-miami-as-franchise-no-22/

[MartinUtd]

Still not sure about Miami but brilliant move by Beckham. First sign of trouble and he can cash out for quadruple his money.

[JavierMartini]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwBS6QGsH_4

[barticusz]

Here's hoping this works out. I know I'll go for a trip to catch a game in sunny florida, that's for sure!

[RealG-TFC]

Oh definitely. That's why I'm excited for it, road trip games/sunny destination all in one - and on the East Coast! I suppose Orlando would also serve that function as well but having been to both towns I must say I prefer Miami/Miami Beach over Orlanda. As for it working out, I can see definitely see that happening. I don't know if there will be a large supporter group culture but I bet there will be a lot of interest and appeal from non-sg fans.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/02/04/watch-david-beckham-special-announcement-about-miami-mlssoccercom-weds-10-am

[OgtheDim]

Hmmm......likely to play for a couple of seasons on a turf field. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIU_Stadium

[maninb]

Good luck signing any decent foreign players if they have to play on a plastic pitch...

[Red CB Toronto]

Hmmm......likely to play for a couple of seasons on a turf field. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIU_Stadium

I actually would not be surprised if they initially played at the Marlins new stadium with grass.

[Whoop]

Photos of new stadium.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C873B2E00000578-130_964x543.jpg

[Whoop]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C873B3600000578-27_964x510.jpg

[Whoop]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C873B3200000578-560_964x599.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C873B2A00000578-380_964x542.jpg

[cmonyoureds]

Good luck signing any decent foreign players if they have to play on a plastic pitch...

One look at those photos will probably take a big bite out of a players excuses about a plastic pitch. Particularly the one with the ocean views and palm trees. :drool5:

[GuelphStorm2007]

I hope it works out Wow what a nice Staduim

[Canary10]

THAT looks like a stadium. If BMO was to become something like that, I'd be fine with the Argos coming in. Unfortunately it won't.

We needed a Beckham back in 2005. Instead we got a guy who got to practice being a sports executive on our team. Glad that whole crew is finally out.

[TFC07]

Beautiful stadium. BMO field even with roof looks like crap compare to Miami's SSS.

[PopePouri]

Parking for boats only it seems.

[WestStandGeoff]

Photos of new stadium.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C873B2E00000578-130_964x543.jpg



I didn't see it elsewhere, but at the Miami colours going to be red and white? Otherwise it looks like there's some solid TFC away support in the rendering!

[Whoop]

Looks like double blue. Maybe the Argos should move to Miami.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C86BEC800000578-141_964x550.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2587584/EXCLUSIVE-First-pictures-Beckhams-planned-stadium-new-Miami-MLS-side.html

25,000 capacity

[Carts]

Beautiful stadium. BMO field even with roof looks like crap compare to Miami's SSS.

Be it ever so humble, there's no place like home...

[ManUtd4ever]

Incredible.

[james]

awesome. Makes me wonder tho, at what point is MLS going to have enough teams. Almost every league around the world seems to have 20 or less teams in the first division ( do any leagues have more then 20?). Do we want to have 24-26-30 teams in MLS? I know a lot of us look at other leagues around the world and compare, and for whatever reason probably a lot of us don't want to be completely different then other soccer leagues and don't want to be like other sports in North America, a 2nd division may look very good to many of us and outsiders looking in, and a lot of people might take the league more serious with 2 divisions. However I doubt they would ever go the relegation 2 division format.

[JuliquE]

Looks like double blue. Maybe the Argos should move to Miami.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C86BEC800000578-141_964x550.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2587584/EXCLUSIVE-First-pictures-Beckhams-planned-stadium-new-Miami-MLS-side.html

25,000 capacity
Steve Buscemi sighting.

[cherono]

Miami Spice

[InDa_110]

Good luck signing any decent foreign players if they have to play on a plastic pitch...


I have a feeling selling them on living and partying in South Beach, wll trump the plastic pitch.

[Initial B]

awesome. Makes me wonder tho, at what point is MLS going to have enough teams. Almost every league around the world seems to have 20 or less teams in the first division ( do any leagues have more then 20?). Do we want to have 24-26-30 teams in MLS? I know a lot of us look at other leagues around the world and compare, and for whatever reason probably a lot of us don't want to be completely different then other soccer leagues and don't want to be like other sports in North America, a 2nd division may look very good to many of us and outsiders looking in, and a lot of people might take the league more serious with 2 divisions. However I doubt they would ever go the relegation 2 division format.
North America has a greater population than all of Europe combined. How many first division teams could the USA support? I figure at least 80. The problem is there is only so many weekends in a season for meaningful play. If they want every team to play every other team at least once (and intra-division games twice, have decent-sized conferences/divisions, and keep to the current 34-game schedule, a 28-team league (2 conferences/4 divisions of 7 teams each) is as large as I can see them expanding.

As for a Second Division, I don't see the NASL accepting that role. I could see in the future that the CSA could come to an agreement with NASL to become Canada's de facto First Division if they allow as many Canadian teams to participate as they want. NASL craves respectability and legitimacy so I think they would jump at the chance.

[Beach_Red]

North America has a greater population than all of Europe combined. How many first division teams could the USA support? I figure at least 80. The problem is there is only so many weekends in a season for meaningful play. If they want every team to play every other team at least once (and intra-division games twice, have decent-sized conferences/divisions, and keep to the current 34-game schedule, a 28-team league (2 conferences/4 divisions of 7 teams each) is as large as I can see them expanding.

As for a Second Division, I don't see the NASL accepting that role. I could see in the future that the CSA could come to an agreement with NASL to become Canada's de facto First Division if they allow as many Canadian teams to participate as they want. NASL craves respectability and legitimacy so I think they would jump at the chance.

Maybe the question should be how many sports teams can each North American city support?

[Cashcleaner]

North America has a greater population than all of Europe combined. How many first division teams could the USA support? I figure at least 80. The problem is there is only so many weekends in a season for meaningful play. If they want every team to play every other team at least once (and intra-division games twice, have decent-sized conferences/divisions, and keep to the current 34-game schedule, a 28-team league (2 conferences/4 divisions of 7 teams each) is as large as I can see them expanding.

As for a Second Division, I don't see the NASL accepting that role. I could see in the future that the CSA could come to an agreement with NASL to become Canada's de facto First Division if they allow as many Canadian teams to participate as they want. NASL craves respectability and legitimacy so I think they would jump at the chance.

You are forgetting that there are other sports soccer competes with in North America, though. Soccer is king in Europe with few other sports coming even close to it's popularity. Whereas in North America, the MLS overlaps with hockey, baseball, basketball, and NFL/CFL football. And that's just the pro leagues. College athletics, believe it or not, are even more popular!

That's why we can't just make comparisons using populations alone. Each sport itself, not just each team, is competing against other sports for your ticket money.

[C.Ronaldo]

You are forgetting that there are other sports soccer competes with in North America, though. Soccer is king in Europe with few other sports coming even close to it's popularity. Whereas in North America, the MLS overlaps with hockey, baseball, basketball, and NFL/CFL football. And that's just the pro leagues. College athletics, believe it or not, are even more popular!

That's why we can't just make comparisons using populations alone. Each sport itself, not just each team, is competing against other sports for your ticket money.

europe competes with Fustal, "ice hockey", Roller hockey, handball, volleyball and making a big push table tennis.

yah..not really big ticket sports..not even close

[evermorian]

North America has a greater population than all of Europe combined. How many first division teams could the USA support? I figure at least 80. The problem is there is only so many weekends in a season for meaningful play. If they want every team to play every other team at least once (and intra-division games twice, have decent-sized conferences/divisions, and keep to the current 34-game schedule, a 28-team league (2 conferences/4 divisions of 7 teams each) is as large as I can see them expanding.

As for a Second Division, I don't see the NASL accepting that role. I could see in the future that the CSA could come to an agreement with NASL to become Canada's de facto First Division if they allow as many Canadian teams to participate as they want. NASL craves respectability and legitimacy so I think they would jump at the chance.

Europe actually has a larger combined population than North America. Over 700 million people in Europe compared to over 500 million in North America.

European population: http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/europe-population-2013/

North American population: http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/north-america-population-2013/

Personally I think the mls needs to slow down its expansion plans. The talent pool will continue to dilute as a result. I'm not sure how many soccer teams, or leagues, north america can handle (Canada and the USA) but the trend seems to be that more people are starting to watch soccer and support north american soccer clubs in greater number.

[Initial B]

Europe actually has a larger combined population than North America. Over 700 million people in Europe compared to over 500 million in North America.

European population: http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/europe-population-2013/

North American population: http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/north-america-population-2013/

Personally I think the mls needs to slow down its expansion plans. The talent pool will continue to dilute as a result. I'm not sure how many soccer teams, or leagues, north america can handle (Canada and the USA) but the trend seems to be that more people are starting to watch soccer and support north american soccer clubs in greater number.
That's a really cool site. Hmmm, I must be going off old population data. When I was growing up, Russia (USSR) was not considered part of the the European population statistics.

I think the talent pool can handle growth to 24 teams by 2020. The league added 9 teams in 7 years and the quality of play has only improved. It might need a bit of a breather at some point, but I'm not sure the economic forces will allow them to stop. I can see MLS having 28-32 teams by 2024.

[Gilberto9]

Beautiful stadium. I read they're planning to have 35,000 seats. The last thing you want is a beautiful stadium with 1/3 empty seats. This is a huge risk, taking into account the terrible sports scene in Florida. I hope it works out, but seating should be cut down 10-15k. Just because there is a new flashy stadium doesn't mean there will be attraction (See the Miami Marlins). Not sure if this means anything, but I've heard football songs break out at Miami Heat games, so the market is most likely there as long as there's success.


For the next market the league is interested in, why not relocate Chivas instead of expanding. St. Louis seems like the ideal location, considering the turnouts they have for club friendlies. Very large European population there as well.

[Abou Sky]

Anyone know why Miami has a poor sports scene (for its size)

Or what does or does not make a great sports scene? Books /studies?

[JuliquE]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C873B3200000578-560_964x599.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/24/article-2587584-1C873B2A00000578-380_964x542.jpg
Were I a stadium, I'd hit it.

[bluelight05]

Anyone know why Miami has a poor sports scene (for its size)

Or what does or does not make a great sports scene? Books /studies?

Miami has too many transplants. Everyone is form somewhere else and they bring their sports allegiances with them.

Lots of growing cities in the US have this problem. Plus there is a lot to do in Miami.

[Abou Sky]

Miami has too many transplants. Everyone is form somewhere else and they bring their sports allegiances with them.

Lots of growing cities in the US have this problem. Plus there is a lot to do in Miami.

I guess that is the reason Phoenix has a hard time as well. Although the best hockey game atmosphere I have been to was a Coyotes game.

[Brooker]

For the next market the league is interested in, why not relocate Chivas instead of expanding. St. Louis seems like the ideal location, considering the turnouts they have for club friendlies. Very large European population there as well.

Doesn't seem like all that many years ago St Louis was the most likely city to get in. Atleast for a year or so it seemed.

[james]

I guess that is the reason Phoenix has a hard time as well. Although the best hockey game atmosphere I have been to was a Coyotes game.

Like many cities some cities appear smaller or bigger then they really are. Phoenix isn't as big of a city as it may appear by its population numbers, you always got to look at the distance to what counts as city borders. For example:

City of Phoenix Population 1,445,632 City Area 1,338 km sq. Population density 1,080 per km

City of Philadelphia Population 1,526,006 City Are 347 km sq. Population Density 4,393 per km

City of San Francisco Population 825,111 City Land area 121 km sq. Population Density 6,800 per km

City of Seattle Population 634,535 City Land Area 217 km sq. Population Density 2,858 per km

City of Boston Population 636,479 City Land Area 232 km sq. Population Density 4,980 per km

City of Vancouver Population 603,502 City Land Area 114 km sq Population Density 5,249 per km

City of Toronto Population 2,615,060 City Land Area 630 km sq Population Density 4,149 per sq km

Phoenix in reality would be much smaller populated if they didn't take in account such massive land area. Phoenix is even over double the size of Toronto in land size. Phoenix Metro population claiming over 4 million is counting 42,000 sq km of land. Can you imagine the distance? that's insane. I'd like to see what the population of the metro is within 2,000 to 3,000 sq km. surrounding Phoenix because I believe the entire GTA is under 3,000 sq km. It would give you a better idea of what the real population might be.

[__wowza]

Beautiful stadium. BMO field even with roof looks like crap compare to Miami's SSS.

they've already stated that it's gonna be function over fashion, so when the roof goes up it's gonna be a monstrosity.
could you imagine what the stadium would've looked like if MLSE took TFC seriously from day one?

[Cashcleaner]

Anyone know why Miami has a poor sports scene (for its size)

Or what does or does not make a great sports scene? Books /studies?

I don't believe it has a bad sports scene, but rather a bad pro sports scene. University basketball, Baseball, and football are big in Florida; and I believe the University of Miami sees pretty respectable crowds for the most part. Not in the same league as UCLA, Duke, or North Carolina, though.

[Waggy]

Miami has too many transplants. Everyone is form somewhere else and they bring their sports allegiances with them. Lots of growing cities in the US have this problem. Plus there is a lot to do in Miami. Think you hit it on the 2nd part there. The longest time I've spent in Miami was a month, and despite the fact that I LOVE sports, I only made it to 2 Marlins games and 1 Dolphins game. It's hard to justify spending your afternoon/evening sitting in oppressive humidity while it's like to absolutely pour instead of say, going golfing then hitting a nice bar/restaurant or heading down to coral gables or over to south beach or even the Lauderdale beach. Marlins games are almost free and still almost empty (my friends and I actually got in for free. There was a promo for having some bumper sticker from a gas station. We went to the box and said we heard the promo on the radio but were from out of town. One window handed us the bumper sticker, another window handed us 4 tickets). It's just not worth the time. Even the U doesn't fill Joe Robbie (or whatever it's called this week). Which is mostly because its on the other side of town from campus, but still.

[ensco]

Not so fast.

http://news.yahoo.com/shipping-alliance-opposes-beckhams-miami-arena-plan-015803397--sector.html

[greatwhitenorf]

I have a hard time buying into this waterfront concept stadium. First off, only 25,000 seats, which is ideal for now but it's such a tight, ecologically-compromised location that there's little chance it can be expanded in future.

The port coalition is making a lot of good points about the economic benefits that harbour expansion will bring vis-a-vis the Panama Canal. The earlier you can get shipped goods off a boat and onto rail or road transport, the quicker it gets to market.

[Haddy]

The latest location - the boat slip - is now off the table as well.

Miami seems to be struggling to get their act together.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/06/10/4169888/miami-takes-downtown-museum-park.html

[OgtheDim]

Marlins messed up that market for any new team in any sport.

[habstfc]

Shitshow

[Cashcleaner]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/11/david-beckham-mls-miami-stadium-major-league-soccer

Well that sucks for the Miami team backers. The mayor was apparently a big supporter of the proposed stadium at the waterfront, but that site has now been pretty much ruled out. Also, the council there is adamant that no municipal funds are to go into any new stadium. Kinda sounds like Beckham is facing a battle in Florida.

[Initial B]

I wonder if Beckham's group can expropiate the two parking lots bounded by 7th and 9th Streets and 1st and 2nd Avenues. Close to transit and just down the street from the AA Arena. Not great skyline views, but it tics most of the boxes.

[OgtheDim]

From the sounds of Garber (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/06/11/mls-commissioner-don-garber-veto-stadium-site-puts-miami-expansion-bid-back-) tonight in Montreal, MLS is not tied to Miami. Nor is it necessary to include Beckham in the next round of expansion.

Beckham seems tied to a city his wife would like to spend time in. Which pretty much means, NY, LA or Miami.

That, and I can't see the league parachuting him into an ownership situation in any of the other prospective cities.

[ensco]

Miami can put a team at FIU. But MLS would prefer if someone gave them a $100M stadium. Preferably on the waterfront.

[Cashcleaner]

From the sounds of Garber (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/06/11/mls-commissioner-don-garber-veto-stadium-site-puts-miami-expansion-bid-back-) tonight in Montreal, MLS is not tied to Miami. Nor is it necessary to include Beckham in the next round of expansion.

Beckham seems tied to a city his wife would like to spend time in. Which pretty much means, NY, LA or Miami.

That, and I can't see the league parachuting him into an ownership situation in any of the other prospective cities.

Interesting. To be honest, it actually sounds that perhaps Garber isn't so hot on the idea of the city even getting a club to begin with, and is using the issues with the stadium site as a scapegoat of sorts.

Also, the fact that Sacramento is specifically brought up in the article is telling.

[Bantamfan]

How about Becks becoming the new owner if Chivas. That way he gets in in LA.