The backstory of Defoe/Bradley deals

[Borga]

Apologies if this is already elsewhere. Found it fascinating:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2014/01/24/toronto_fcs_transformation_was_colourful_journey_l ed_by_tim_leiweke_kelly.html

And yes, I think Kelly has some inside sources :P

[Auzzy]

Yup already read it, very interesting. Even LBJ was involved... ;)

Of course parts of it could be a snow job. Was Defoe really their top target? Who knows? Maybe he was #5? It would still be best to spin it like they are. Good story in any case!

[Pint]

Apologies if this is already elsewhere. Found it fascinating:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2014/01/24/toronto_fcs_transformation_was_colourful_journey_l ed_by_tim_leiweke_kelly.html

And yes, I think Kelly has some inside sources :P

very interesting that another team was willing to bid the 50 mil that was needed but Bradley didn't want to go. Maybe Columbus with new ownership made that bid?

[Heart of Stone]

Great piece in the star!

Still yet to be proven.

[notthesun]

I'm no fan of Kelly but this is a great article. Especially like the information about how we were after Gilardino and Defoe at the same time.

[mowe]

very interesting that another team was willing to bid the 50 mil that was needed but Bradley didn't want to go. Maybe Columbus with new ownership made that bid?

According to Ives it was SKC. Understandable why Bradley chose Toronto over Kansas City.

That article is amazing. So much behind the scenes info that we spent months speculating about. Kelly outdid himself.

[Pint]

I wonder if Gilardinho is more upset now that the money was available for Bradley but not him?

[notthesun]

Forget Drake, he got Lebron to put in a word for us. Talk about pulling strings. Leiweke is a hero.

[RealG-TFC]

Amazing stuff

[DOMIN8R]

While no exposé, a few heads will role because of this article. Fun to read though.

[Abou Sky]

Thanks for the article, that is amazing.

I think that I don't hate Cathel Kelly anymore.

"Leiweke pressed Nelsen for names to add. Nelsen submitted a list of 100 international players he’d like to buy. Between them, they whittled it down to 10."

I would love to have seen that list of 100

[Auzzy]

While no exposé, a few heads will role because of this article. Fun to read though.

Why do you think heads will roll?

[Cuppy]

There should be a shrine erected in both these guys honour. Absolute classic

[Pint]

According to Ives it was SKC. Understandable why Bradley chose Toronto over Kansas City.

That article is amazing. So much behind the scenes info that we spent months speculating about. Kelly outdid himself.

When did Ives say that? also did he give any reasons why he turned down SKC?

[DOMIN8R]

Why do you think heads will roll?

I think that there are some names associated with disclosing information that related parties might not wish to have disclosed. There is a reason we don't often get an inside view of the inner workings of MLS, FIFA rules, agents, owners manipulating parents and other conniving tactics used in professional sports. Just my opinion. But I'm sticking with it.

None of this surprises me. What surprises me is that Kelly names names and some will interpret the details to suggest that some actors were disingenuous or devious. I would be surprised if there weren't a few names mentioned in the article that would prefer that some of this information wasn't made public.

Nothing more. But, in hindsight, maybe "heads will roll" was overstated.

[PopePouri]

When did Ives say that? also did he give any reasons why he turned down SKC?

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2014/01/12/4540081/the-mls-wrap-toronto-fcs-big-splash-is-a-message-to-league

[Pint]

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2014/01/12/4540081/the-mls-wrap-toronto-fcs-big-splash-is-a-message-to-league

oh nice... thanks for that

[Richard]

Fascinating insight.

TL is a master at what he does, this guy has some serious connections.

[tfcleeds]

Very interesting indeed. Gotta give TL and the Bez major props for this one.

[TFC07]

Last sentence in that article should be something we should worry about? TFC FO pissed off a lot of MLS owners and teams by "overpaying" for Bradley and Defoe. Now players are going to have higher asking price and use Toronto DP's as examples. Also, I wonder how much TFC DP's signing play a role when CBA expires next year.

[TFCwestcan]

Man that reads like a bank heist novel...don't know who had more fun with this, kelly writing the piece, Big Tim and Little Tim making the deal or me reading the said article.

[Waggy]

Wow! Cathal! That came out of left field. I don't particularly like the guy but he CLEARLY knows some people who like him down at MLSE hq.

So Leiweke is buddies with Lebron/his agent eh?... Lebron and Drake are buddies too.... It's impossible. It can't happen. It'd never happen... But after reading that article, dollars to donuts Timmy's gonna do his best this summer to try and talk LBJ into a move. THAT would be crazy.

All in all, A+ article. Is it March yet? (Also how about the members of the Italian soccer community being involved with Gilardino? Guess that whole storyline can be put to bed)

[tfcleeds]

Wow! Cathal! That came out of left field. I don't particularly like the guy but he CLEARLY knows some people who like him down at MLSE hq.

So Leiweke is buddies with Lebron/his agent eh?... Lebron and Drake are buddies too.... It's impossible. It can't happen. It'd never happen... But after reading that article, dollars to donuts Timmy's gonna do his best this summer to try and talk LBJ into a move. THAT would be crazy.

All in all, A+ article. Is it March yet? (Also how about the members of the Italian soccer community being involved with Gilardino? Guess that whole storyline can be put to bed)

That's what I was thinking when I was reading the article.

[Phil]

It seemed to hit all the major points that I was made aware of. My wife and I read laughing out loud as all the names hit on our recollection of the timeline. Defoe's name hit my attention radar around late September, so its been a slog for them.

[ManUtd4ever]

Excellent read, and the most enjoyable TFC related article since the inception of the franchise.

[ManUtd4ever]

Wow! Cathal! That came out of left field. I don't particularly like the guy but he CLEARLY knows some people who like him down at MLSE hq.

So Leiweke is buddies with Lebron/his agent eh?... Lebron and Drake are buddies too.... It's impossible. It can't happen. It'd never happen... But after reading that article, dollars to donuts Timmy's gonna do his best this summer to try and talk LBJ into a move. THAT would be crazy.

All in all, A+ article. Is it March yet? (Also how about the members of the Italian soccer community being involved with Gilardino? Guess that whole storyline can be put to bed)

We can now say that stranger things have happened. If anyone can pull it off, it is Leiweke.

[Abou Sky]

Last sentence in that article should be something we should worry about? TFC FO pissed off a lot of MLS owners and teams by "overpaying" for Bradley and Defoe. Now players are going to have higher asking price and use Toronto DP's as examples. Also, I wonder how much TFC DP's signing play a role when CBA expires next year.

Next team that tries to land those kinds of players can worry, to quote Alfred E Newman 'what me worry?'

[pdubs]

someone has to start taking the training wheels off the league.. TL is the man

[Richard]

Good. I want the rest of the league to be pissed off, how about some of those owners actually open up their pocket books up for once(Other than the LA,NY,SEA etc) instead of using it as a tax write off. Fuck them, were going to buy a cup and they can sulk all they want.

[billyfly]

I agree that there is way too much info in this story. Somebody might be upset.

[Auzzy]

I think that there are some names associated with disclosing information that related parties might not wish to have disclosed. There is a reason we don't often get an inside view of the inner workings of MLS, FIFA rules, agents, owners manipulating parents and other conniving tactics used in professional sports. Just my opinion. But I'm sticking with it.

None of this surprises me. What surprises me is that Kelly names names and some will interpret the details to suggest that some actors were disingenuous or devious. I would be surprised if there weren't a few names mentioned in the article that would prefer that some of this information wasn't made public.

Nothing more. But, in hindsight, maybe "heads will roll" was overstated.

Could be. I just wonder though: Leiweke loves a big show. This article could part of the show. At least for those people mentioned in the article that matter, or that he wants to deal with in the future, he may have given them a heads-up beforehand, gotten their OK, and left out the parts of the story that they didn't want mentioned.

There's a few people named in the article that may feel a bit duped or used. Like the Canadian-Italian businessmen -- but they weren't mentioned by name, so nobody needs to feel personally embarrassed.

Gilardino & his agent are probably upset, but that would be the case with or w/o this article. I think these types of negotiations, and deals falling through after a long wait, are pretty common, so it's probably not such a big problem.

Defoe's family could feel a bit duped with the song & dance that was put on for them -- but Defoe has signed, he's getting the money, his family is getting the homes & flights, and they really have gotten attention from Drake & LBJ.

The talk of other MLS teams & owners being upset with him -- yes probably. Or at least the cheapskate owners. We've heard a couple of times that there is a bit of rift between different groups of owners, with a few wanting to keep the league in the 1.0 days with minimal expenses, and some pushing to expand the salary cap & special rules like DPs. But the "bad boy" image may also be something they're exaggerating a bit, because it's a good story, and makes folks in Toronto feel special.

It's all good, it's all part of the big show, sit back & enjoy!

[flatpicker]

I think that there are some names associated with disclosing information that related parties might not wish to have disclosed. There is a reason we don't often get an inside view of the inner workings of MLS, FIFA rules, agents, owners manipulating parents and other conniving tactics used in professional sports. Just my opinion. But I'm sticking with it.

None of this surprises me. What surprises me is that Kelly names names and some will interpret the details to suggest that some actors were disingenuous or devious. I would be surprised if there weren't a few names mentioned in the article that would prefer that some of this information wasn't made public.

Nothing more. But, in hindsight, maybe "heads will roll" was overstated.

I agree. As much as I loved the article, I couldn't help but think while reading it, there were some rather private and sneaky happenings in the story that some folks would rather stay out of public knowledge.

Still, it's fun to learn of crazy behind the scenes stuff.

[billyfly]

Great read.

[OgtheDim]

A few things:

If I was Vancouver and Montreal, I'd be very happy. In the end, if MLS can become the #2 sport in the biggest 3 cities in this country, all 3 owners will do very well off this. These deals start that ball rolling.

In the States, its WAY more problematic what is going on. MLS has sold itself to owners in a unique way. MLS is the anti-NASL with a plan to not go bankrupt like a lot of leagues, is the little NFL with its all for one approach (which given the NFL has a virtual monopoly on the best pro football players is not really an apt comparison), and not the regional boundaries stuck league that is the NHL or the player issue filled league that is the NBA. These deals jeopordise that stability.

Its fine for MLSE as it currently is instituted - a media partnership that is creating content (a mini YES). Losing money for content is OK. But, no other team in the league is built around that model.

Maybe its a good thing, as the tax write off guys and the AFL types get out of the game. But....who's going to come in now and invest? The Yankees are with NYCFC. Red Bull is one big marketing plan. Beckham's Brazilian backed team and the Orlando team seem to be billionaire play toys. Seattle is Paul Allan's money. AEG runs 2 teams


Going to be interesting.


BUT, and this is what I have in the back of my mind....if Bell and Rogers tire of MLSE, lets hope TL has set all MLSE assets up to survive and make a profit. Otherwise, TFC will be in trouble.

[Mr. Bigby]

I've never thought Cathal Kelly was a bad writer - far from it. He can put words together far better than most. I've always thought he was far too willing to go for the cheap shot, or enjoyed stirring shit just because he could. In this case however, my hat is off to the man. A well written meaty drama that told an amazing story well!

[Detroit_TFC]

Quite an eye opener. Leiweke is quite an impressario but I think we knew that already. But it's Bez who is really starting to impress me. These are some of the biggest deals in league history and he seems to be running right along the big dogs.

As for MLSE overspending, fuck the complainers. I think there has been a gentleman's agreement to avoid these big deals, even after DB came in. If it's true that SKC put in the other competitive bid for Bradley, it shows even a modest locally based ownership group can come up with the resources to get high priced players. The fact that Bob Kraft or Vergara doesn't want to spend the money is their issue.

Finally I don't see giving Defoe's family the hard sell as duping them in any way. Duping implies deceit. They got buttered up and they expected to be.

[OgtheDim]

I also note absolutely nothing about how/why Gilberto was chosen as the B option.

[Mr. Bigby]

I also note absolutely nothing about how/why Gilberto was chosen as the B option.

It may be nothing more than 1) Nelsen was familiar with Defoe and knew his strengths, and 2) the Tims felt that Defoe would be a better draw around the league.

[RealG-TFC]

It may be nothing more than 1) Nelsen was familiar with Defoe and knew his strengths, and 2) the Tims felt that Defoe would be a better draw around the league.

But the point is that we have no idea how his name came up. Our best guess is that they simply google searched the leading goal scorers in brazil/s.america which sounds unlikely given the precision with which Defoe and Bradley were pursued.

[tfcleeds]

Finally I don't see giving Defoe's family the hard sell as duping them in any way. Duping implies deceit. They got buttered up and they expected to be.

Exactly. If I'm Defoe or a member of his family, I'm flattered they went to such lengths to get me here.

[loconet]

Man that reads like a bank heist novel...don't know who had more fun with this, kelly writing the piece, Big Tim and Little Tim making the deal or me reading the said article.

Definitely both Tims. Just look at Tim B's smartass smirk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLhRDybgtM0k95Y-tOe-KCQ3AbyqtRAmbC&v=Z3xl2V5l-AY&feature=player_detailpage#t=129) during most of the interview back in Dec lol. All this shenanigans were happening in the background...

[Vinsanity89]

http://v.thestar.com/services/player/bcpid2071349530001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAuO4KaJE~,gatFNwS KdGDmDpIYqNJ-fTHn_c4z_LH_&bctid=3102668825001

The video that MLSE used to recruit Defoe.

[Areathrasher]

Not Kellys biggest fan but boy was that some read.

The video was impressive too.

[PopePouri]

But the point is that we have no idea how his name came up. Our best guess is that they simply google searched the leading goal scorers in brazil/s.america which sounds unlikely given the precision with which Defoe and Bradley were pursued.

Not really. It's been reported that Nelsen has a large network of contacts. One of them was Gilberto's agent who is a well known and deals a lot in Brazil.

Listen to the Neil Davidson interview.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/soccer-central-radio/

[Shakes McQueen]

The intricacies of the woo-ing process were what really interested me - even engineering a "chance meeting" with a player who doesn't play for any of our teams. I also liked the tale about TL putting a bunch of prominent Italian locals in the luxury box with Gilardino's agent, and them disappearing for an hour, then coming back with plans to go golfing and stuff, haha.

- Scott

[Cashcleaner]

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2014/01/12/4540081/the-mls-wrap-toronto-fcs-big-splash-is-a-message-to-league

Good article. I highlighted one section in particular:


You will hear proclamations that committing a reported $100 million to two players is fiscally irresponsible, and not in line with the prudence that has helped MLS grow slowly and steadily for the better part of two decades. You will hear that it threatens to turn MLS into a league of haves and have-nots, with big spending, big city teams overpowering smaller market clubs.

Don’t buy it for a second.

For starters, the idea that there are small-time MLS owners who can’t simply keep up with spending is largely a myth. The reality is that some of the teams most notorious for being unwilling to spend are run by some of the league’s richest owners. From Colorado’s Stan Kroenke, to New England’s Robert Kraft, to Chivas USA’s Jorge Vergara, you have financially strong owners who have gotten away with investing far less in their MLS teams than some other owners with much shallower pockets, but way more ambition.

[ensco]

I'd guess Kelly got that story because he has proven he will just stick to the script and not start reasoning things out, plus I'm guessing the Star guaranteed Saturday page 1 treatment. Those old enough to remember Milt Dunnell and his role as the Star's front page stenographer/apologist for Ballard will know what I mean. I'd hold off on the hosannas for Kelly as a journalist.

A better journalist would wonder why Leiweke gave some of those elements up. My guesses:

- he wants to make sure Toronto's Italian community knows he tried. I think he must be getting a lot of stick about signing 3 DPs and no Italians. I don't think he succeeded in this, all he did was burn a few bridges with the Italian agent community, which was an unfortunate sideshow, but it sounds to me like, if he'd gone as hard for Gila as he did for Defoe, he could have had him. I don't think he completely realizes that many soccer people (Italians or otherwise) might have rated Gila ahead of both Defoe and Bradley.

- He can't help himself, he has to brag. Because it can't be about someone else's $100M, it has about how special he is. The 100 names thing is contrived, an attempt to answer to the obvious point which is, TFC simply overpaid to get the two best players on the market. This is the stuff that I'll bet caused the rupture with Anschutz.

- He wants to change the perception of NBA free agents towards Toronto by fanning Lebron to Toronto stories (although I'd guess Lebron's relationship with Beckham - he is part of the Miami bid group - is actually how that hat tip to Defoe's Mom happened, and it says nothing about the likelihood that Lebron will come here). This is a smart gambit, there is definitely a knock on halo effect from the Defoe signing, may as well make the most of it.

[Oldtimer]

Its fine for MLSE as it currently is instituted - a media partnership that is creating content (a mini YES). Losing money for content is OK. But, no other team in the league is built around that model.



I'd say AEG, maybe, but probably nobody else.


I'd guess Kelly got that story because he has proven he will just stick to the script and not start reasoning things out, plus I'm guessing the Star guaranteed Saturday page 1 treatment. Those old enough to remember Milt Dunnell and his role as the Star's front page stenographer/apologist for Ballard will know what I mean. I'd hold off on the hosannas for Kelly as a journalist.



I think we can all agree that he has full access to Tim L. It's not that Cathall is that great of a journalist, he didn't ferret out this information, he was handed it and made up his piece. Not bad writing, but let's not give him too much credit.

[Alonso]

Quite an eye opener. Leiweke is quite an impressario but I think we knew that already. But it's Bez who is really starting to impress me. These are some of the biggest deals in league history and he seems to be running right along the big dogs.

As for MLSE overspending, fuck the complainers. I think there has been a gentleman's agreement to avoid these big deals, even after DB came in. If it's true that SKC put in the other competitive bid for Bradley, it shows even a modest locally based ownership group can come up with the resources to get high priced players. The fact that Bob Kraft or Vergara doesn't want to spend the money is their issue.

Finally I don't see giving Defoe's family the hard sell as duping them in any way. Duping implies deceit. They got buttered up and they expected to be.

I agree with this completely, implying otherwise is to take them (the Defoe family) as idiots, which I don't think is an apt claim. They knew what it was, and everybody must have been happy about it or the deal would have never happened.

[flatpicker]

Finally I don't see giving Defoe's family the hard sell as duping them in any way. Duping implies deceit. They got buttered up and they expected to be.

I agree. I'm sure big stars are used to all sorts of special treatment. When I suggested earlier that this story might be awkward for some I was thinking more about other agents and players that were co-stars in this great drama. Some of them might prefer these stories stay behind the scenes. But whatever, I don't really care as long as it all works in our favour.

[Shakes McQueen]

- he wants to make sure Toronto's Italian community knows he tried. I think he must be getting a lot of stick about signing 3 DPs and no Italians. I don't think he succeeded in this, all he did was burn a few bridges with the Italian agent community, which was an unfortunate sideshow, but it sounds to me like, if he'd gone as hard for Gila as he did for Defoe, he could have had him. I don't think he completely realizes that many soccer people (Italians or otherwise) might have rated Gila ahead of both Defoe and Bradley.

- If the story is to be believed, the Gilardino deal was already essentially done and sitting in TL's pocket, in the event the Defoe deal didn't happen. As a result, the story doesn't really push the narrative that he tried to get an Italian - it pretty clearly states he could have had one, and consciously turned him down for Defoe, who he personally rated as the bigger "get".

- My own guess for why TL was so forthcoming in spinning this yarn, is sort of in the story himself - playing the "game" of transfer window, is what really juices him. He's proud of what he managed to pull off, and wants to brag about how he did it - and maybe embellish a few details in the retelling.

- The running theory among most people I read or heard when TL first came here, was that the inability to seal the deal on an NFL team/stadium, was what ultimately sent TL packing.

- Scott

[ensco]

If somebody had been sold on taking less money to come to TFC, that would be genuinely interesting, and would say something interesting about the people involved. That does happen in life.
http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/22/jonah-hill-took-60000-to-work-with-scorsese-on-wolf/

The story about selling to Defoe's family tells you more about the storyteller than the story itself.

PT wants the narrative to be about something other than the money. But it's about the money. Defoe would not have had his family fly in, or taken this seriously, if the deal hadn't been this mouthwatering. He seems like a nice guy with a nice family, so I'm glad. But I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and I'm not buying the idea that this means we have some kind of special skill to attract talent.

[jloome]

If somebody had been sold on taking less money to come to TFC, that would be genuinely interesting, and would say something interesting about the people involved. That does happen in life.
http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/22/jonah-hill-took-60000-to-work-with-scorsese-on-wolf/

The story about selling to Defoe's family tells you more about the storyteller than the story itself.

PT wants the narrative to be about something other than the money. But it's about the money. Defoe would not have had his family fly in, or taken this seriously, if the deal hadn't been this mouthwatering. He seems like a nice guy with a nice family, so I'm glad. But I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and I'm not buying the idea that this means we have some kind of special skill to attract talent.

I've done stories very much like this, usually involving crime narratives. This story -- I guarantee you of this, and it's been my business for a quarter-century -- came entirely from Lieweke and Bezbatchenko, and was entirely deliberate. It's an engagement piece, one that shows the depth of focus and level of work the two men are putting in to get deals done. It satisfies a fan base tired and leery of showmen, a board wondering what they got for their money and players who are paid a lot and have egos.

Telling the truth in detail is usually the best PR strategy when you're doing your job.

At the same time, it allows Lieweke to key on and reiterate several factors publicly without being seen as tactless himself.

If this wasn't fed to Kelly, with a few additional calls to confirm some points, I'll eat one of the many press passes kicking around the back of my second desk drawer.

The reason it was given to him is he's the best writer covering the team; not reporter, necessarily (although he might be that, too, if he had the work ethic) but the best stylist. It's a narrative, he's flexible and open to being given an easy subject to write about, and he's smart enough to know how to craft a feature.

But don't kid yourselves about this "causing trouble." It's a PR coup, if anything. You know how much the equivalent space would cost in display advertising?

Lieweke, I must admit, impresses me. And that's very hard to do. Only hard workers with extreme focus need apply.

[OgtheDim]

Thanks jloome....I was wondering what you thought of it. Good to hear the professional view point on these things.

[ensco]

- The running theory among most people I read or heard when TL first came here, was that the inability to seal the deal on an NFL team/stadium, was what ultimately sent TL packing.

- Scott

There was quite a bit of speculation on bs that Leiweke was saying things about AEG's commitment to the NFL that went way beyond what Anschutz had authorized him to do.

There was a New Yorker feature on AEG a couple of years ago that made it pretty clear that the NFL team was Leiweke's big idea, and that Anschutz had very little interest (if it meant he had to pay for it).

To my eye, he is doing it again. The credit for these signings belongs to Bell and Rogers, who write the checks. Their ability to step up was the difference maker.

[notthesun]

The credit for these signings belongs to Bell and Rogers, who write the checks.

Ridiculous. Completely bonkers.

[OgtheDim]

I would say the credit is shared, as it should be in these sort of situations.

The brains set targets, the money was willing to pay for it. Without Rogers and Bell stepping up, it doesn't happen. Without TL it doesn't happen. Without RN and TB, it probably happens in a different way.

[notthesun]

I would say the credit is shared, as it should be in these sort of situations.

The brains set targets, the money was willing to pay for it. Without Rogers and Bell stepping up, it doesn't happen. Without TL it doesn't happen. Without RN and TB, it probably happens in a different way.

I mean, props to the board for freeing up the cash. But suggesting the board is just as, or more, responsible as Leiweke for us signing Defoe & Bradley? That's insane. Insane.

Who do you think convinced the board to free up the cash for Defoe & Gilberto in the first place? And convinced them to fork over another truck full of it, double the initial asking price, when Bradley came up? Consider me skeptical Payne could have done the same. Bogers doesn't step up if they aren't given good reason to.

Leiweke set the wheels in motion and was there every step of the way. No doubt Bez & Nelsen were important players in negotiations as well. I can tell you who wasn't, though. The board.

Leiweke can rightfully take the credit here. He promised and over-delivered.

[jloome]

There was quite a bit of speculation on bs that Leiweke was saying things about AEG's commitment to the NFL that went way beyond what Anschutz had authorized him to do.

There was a New Yorker feature on AEG a couple of years ago that made it pretty clear that the NFL team was Leiweke's big idea, and that Anschutz had very little interest (if it meant he had to pay for it).

To my eye, he is doing it again. The credit for these signings belongs to Bell and Rogers, who write the checks. Their ability to step up was the difference maker.

You're looking at it from the perspective of someone who is a high-performance individual. I don't say that to flatter, I know your resume, lol. And because of my rare ability to focus due to Asperger's I share some of those traits. Unfortunately, it also creates a somewhat biased expectation that performing at the level Lieweke did in that narrative can become "the norm." Most people simply don't have the foresight, planning, execution, drive etc. to pull off a deal like that. Kevin Payne would not have managed it, blank cheque notwithstanding, because his expectations of what is required to perform at the next level were set too low.

Look at the number of steps and small gestures required in this, the phone calls, the contacts, the schmoozing. This was salesmanship and self-belief on a grand scale. That's not common, you just forget that having been there. When I was a boss, I forgot that all too often (and was also significantly less self-aware at that point) and just expected that everyone could learn fluid turn-of-phrase, or how to charm and manipulate on the telephone, or how to rally people by tapping one's own passion for a subject. So I was pretty merciless in my expectations and not a lot of fun to work with.

I just think the guy gets max points on this; he's always only as good as the spending level, but that's true in every arena. It's like Edgar Sr. once said: turning a million into ten million is hard, turning a hundred million into a hundred and ten million is inevitable.

[mowe]

Fully agree with all that, notthesun. Opening the checkbook isn't the be all and end all for signing players. Usually it's enough. But someone like Defoe could've stayed in England which would've been better for his World Cup prospects. Bradley could've gone to numerous other teams in the top 4 leagues. You need to sell them on a vision. Convince them they can be a part of building something great. It's the same reason DeRo took less money to come here. In fact he even said directly, "Tim Leiweke is the only reason I'm here." We've had money in the past, but we've spent it on De Guzman, Mista, etc. Payne went all in on chasing Forlan but couldn't pull it off. Leiweke is the guy who convinced David fucking Beckham to join MLS in 2007. That's the kind of ambition he brings to Toronto. I'm glad he's here.

[ensco]

I would say the credit is shared, as it should be in these sort of situations.

The brains set targets, the money was willing to pay for it. Without Rogers and Bell stepping up, it doesn't happen. Without TL it doesn't happen. Without RN and TB, it probably happens in a different way.

That is probably the right summary. But that's not the summary you'd make if all you read was the Kelly story.

[ensco]

I mean, props to the board for freeing up the cash. But suggesting the board is just as, or more, responsible as Leiweke for us signing Defoe & Bradley? That's insane. Insane.

Who do you think convinced the board to free up the cash for Defoe & Gilberto in the first place? And convinced them to fork over another truck full of it, double the initial asking price, when Bradley came up? Consider me skeptical Payne could have done the same. Bogers doesn't step up if they aren't given good reason to.

Leiweke set the wheels in motion and was there every step of the way. No doubt Bez & Nelsen were important players in negotiations as well. I can tell you who wasn't, though. The board.

Leiweke can rightfully take the credit here. He promised and over-delivered.

You have the causality backwards.

Leiweke was hired because he sold the board on this vision. The day he was hired, THIS BECAME THE BOARD'S VISION. It's the boards strategy and the owners money, adopted because they have a guy they think can pull it off. But trust me, the owners, and us fans, will all still be here when Leiweke is long gone. It's not his ball he's playing with.

I'm glad that he got us these elite players, I think, but something tells me the risk of failure with these moves is very high. Nobody wants to talk about that right now, but believe me, we'll be talking about that a lot in the future. I only make this point now because it's relevant if you want to evaluate what Leiweke has done. We're still in the first inning here, in terms of the owner's scorecard.

So what does Leiweke deserve when he successfully executes the first step of this vision? It depends on how tough you think that step is.

Personally, I saw trained hamsters sign Torsten Frings 3 years ago - I think it's all about the dough-re-mi.

[Waggy]

You have the causality backwards.

Leiweke was hired because he sold the board on this vision. The day he was hired, THIS BECAME THE BOARD'S VISION. It's the boards strategy and the owners money, adopted because they have a guy they think can pull it off. But trust me, the owners, and us fans, will all still be here when Leiweke is long gone. It's not his ball he's playing with.

I'm glad that he got us these elite players, I think, but something tells me the risk of failure with these moves is very high. Nobody wants to talk about that right now, but believe me, we'll be talking about that a lot in the future.

So what does he deserve when he successfully executes the first step of this vision? It depends on how tough you think that step is.

Personally, I saw trained hamsters sign Torsten Frings 3 years ago - I think it's all about the dough-re-mi.


If that was totally true Qatar and the UAE and Russia would have by FAR the best soccer players/teams in the world. Cash is what gets the door opened, talking the player through the door is a huge part of the process. And the hardest. There are lots of soccer teams around the world owned by billionaires willing to spend $100 million on a few players. The trick is convincing the player to pick YOUR billionaire

[notthesun]

So what does he deserve when he successfully executes the first step of this vision? It depends on how tough you think that step is.

I think he deserves credit for executing his vision successfully. I think it's a lot of credit, you think it's not much. The point is the buck stops with him. Not the board.



Personally, I saw trained hamsters sign Torsten Frings 3 years ago - I think it's all about the dough-re-mi.

The difference between signing Frings and signing Defoe+Bradley is massive. It worries me you even bring it up as a comparison.

[Oldtimer]

You need to sell them on a vision. Convince them they can be a part of building something great. It's the same reason DeRo took less money to come here. In fact he even said directly, "Tim Leiweke is the only reason I'm here."

Arguably, getting DeRo to come back to Toronto, given the history, and with much less money has got to be every bit as difficult as bringing in Bradley.

I have to say I am overall impressed with Tim L. (except for stringing Gilardino along, which was not fair). It takes leadership, focus, and nerves of steel to do deals like this, few in MLS management could pull off this sort of thing. Plus getting the league to cover part of Defoe's cost due to higher expected ticket sales when TFC comes to visit is pure genius.

[notthesun]

Leiweke was hired because he sold the board on this vision. The day he was hired, THIS BECAME THE BOARD'S VISION. It's the boards strategy and the owners money, adopted because they have a guy they think can pull it off. But trust me, the owners, and us fans, will all still be here when Leiweke is long gone. It's not his ball he's playing with.


This is a bad joke. He sells the board on his vision, they agree, and now he deserves no credit? Remove Leiweke from the equation. What's "the board's vision" now? What's "their strategy" now?

I'll tell you. It's whatever the guy they hired instead thinks it should be. Because it's HIS vision. The board agrees or disagrees. That's it. They don't plan.

You're right, it's a risky vision. Maybe it doesn't work out. Want to know who's really behind it? The guy who's going to get shitcanned if it all goes up in smoke. Guess who that is?

[Cashcleaner]

I've done stories very much like this, usually involving crime narratives. This story -- I guarantee you of this, and it's been my business for a quarter-century -- came entirely from Lieweke and Bezbatchenko, and was entirely deliberate. It's an engagement piece, one that shows the depth of focus and level of work the two men are putting in to get deals done. It satisfies a fan base tired and leery of showmen, a board wondering what they got for their money and players who are paid a lot and have egos.

Telling the truth in detail is usually the best PR strategy when you're doing your job.

At the same time, it allows Lieweke to key on and reiterate several factors publicly without being seen as tactless himself.

If this wasn't fed to Kelly, with a few additional calls to confirm some points, I'll eat one of the many press passes kicking around the back of my second desk drawer.

The reason it was given to him is he's the best writer covering the team; not reporter, necessarily (although he might be that, too, if he had the work ethic) but the best stylist. It's a narrative, he's flexible and open to being given an easy subject to write about, and he's smart enough to know how to craft a feature.

But don't kid yourselves about this "causing trouble." It's a PR coup, if anything. You know how much the equivalent space would cost in display advertising?

Lieweke, I must admit, impresses me. And that's very hard to do. Only hard workers with extreme focus need apply.

I'm thinking the same as well. The piece is all praise for Lieweke and TFC/MLSE in general - who wouldn't want that to be publicly known? Especially a club like TFC that has a history of bad decisions, botched deals, and shady practices. When Tim L came into this organization, he knew he needed to completely change people's perceptions of the team, and the Defoe/Bradley deal certainly does that.

Just like the law, it's not enough that it works - it has to be shown working.

[billyfly]

Well from the kelly article - "Leiweke’s next move is a massive expansion of BMO Field (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/19/mlses_leiweke_taxpayers_would_be_paid_back_for_bmo _field_expansion.html). He remains convinced that MLSE can recoup its investment, based on its own proprietary research."

That to me means that it might be bigger and better than we are imagining.

[Heart of Stone]

I reckon BMO might get totally pimped out

[ensco]

This is a bad joke. He sells the board on his vision, they agree, and now he deserves no credit? Remove Leiweke from the equation. What's "the board's vision" now? What's "their strategy" now?

I'll tell you. It's whatever the guy they hired instead thinks it should be. Because it's HIS vision. The board agrees or disagrees. That's it. They don't plan.

You're right, it's a risky vision. Maybe it doesn't work out. Want to know who's really behind it? The guy who's going to get shitcanned if it all goes up in smoke. Guess who that is?

Too soon to talk about credit, I think.

This pretty much captures the broader point I am trying to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTsA-86kky0

[billyfly]

I reckon BMO might get totally pimped out


Supporters gate?

[ensco]

If that was totally true Qatar and the UAE and Russia would have by FAR the best soccer players/teams in the world. Cash is what gets the door opened, talking the player through the door is a huge part of the process. And the hardest. There are lots of soccer teams around the world owned by billionaires willing to spend $100 million on a few players. The trick is convincing the player to pick YOUR billionaire

Great point.

They do have the best teams and players in the world. Their teams happen to play in England, France and Spain.

[notthesun]

Too soon to talk about credit, I think.

This pretty much captures the broader point I am trying to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTsA-86kky0

I don't mean credit as in praise. I mean credit as in responsibility.

Good or bad, it's (mostly) Leiweke's doing.

[Waggy]

Great point.

They do have the best teams and players in the world. Their teams happen to play in England, France and Spain.


Touche haha. Don't forget New York City starting next year as well

[shwade]

Ridiculous. Completely bonkers.

Agreed. If the credit goes to bell and rogers for signing the cheques then they should get the blame for eckersley, de Guzman and the boatload of other shitty signings the GM has made.

[ensco]

Agreed. If the credit goes to bell and rogers for signing the cheques then they should get the blame for eckersley, de Guzman and the boatload of other shitty signings the GM has made.

You guys do not understand where the buck stops. The blame for what happened here under Peddie/Anselmi belongs to Teachers, for appointing those guys, for generally abdicating their management responsibility over TFC/MLSE, and/or for authorizing the strategy pursued (including bad signings).

[shwade]

You guys do not understand where the buck stops. The blame for what happened here under Peddie/Anselmi belongs to Teachers, for appointing those guys, for generally abdicating their management responsibility over TFC/MLSE, and/or for authorizing the strategy pursued (including bad signings).

So peddie and anselmi are absolved of any of the blame just because they were hired by the teachers? I don't agree with that. Obviously the owners should get some credit or we would be like NeR or the Krew but the majority of credit belongs with the guys who scouted, courted and ultimately convinced these players to pack up and move to Canada.

[Masked Man]

Until we are all watching a winning team on the field, it's premature to be talking about anyone's success. Look at the Blue Jays, who were getting all the acclaim in the city last year for their big off-season moves & what happened with them? They were a complete & utter disaster.

TFC still have a team of players that haven't had alot of time playing together. It's going to be a test for Nelsen to make it happen, nobody is going to have any sympathy for him if the team struggles.

[Detroit_TFC]

I think everyone is correct, the situation was/is complex. The executive officers operate in the context established by the board, but its the executives who are responsible for the day to day decisions, not the board.

[ag futbol]

So peddie and anselmi are absolved of any of the blame just because they were hired by the teachers? I don't agree with that. Obviously the owners should get some credit or we would be like NeR or the Krew but the majority of credit belongs with the guys who scouted, courted and ultimately convinced these players to pack up and move to Canada.
I think what he's getting at isn't that Peddie and Anselmi are absolved, just that they are an extension of the previous dysfunction of the ownership group which started above the executives at the ownership level. So Leiweke deserves credit, but so do Bell/Rogers for being willing to go down this road.

It has been mentioned a few times, but the previous mandate was generally to prop-up current income and make the teams cash cows. Otherwise they wanted to stay very hands-off to avoid public scrutiny, which left a huge void in accountability. This is how all their teams were allowed to slide into dysfunction and never climbed out until the sale.

[shwade]

I liked the airplane analogy...what happened to it??
Anyway, yeah we're just arguing over whose fault it is more.

[Red CB Toronto]

You guys do not understand where the buck stops. The blame for what happened here under Peddie/Anselmi belongs to Teachers, for appointing those guys, for generally abdicating their management responsibility over TFC/MLSE, and/or for authorizing the strategy pursued (including bad signings).

Do we really believe that the Teachers Pension Fund ever took a real interested in the on-ice, court and field product and truth took they cue from Larry. Their sole objective was to bring cash flow into the fund and that is exactly what was happening. Now even tough Larry has a 5% bump in his MLSE stake he has lost much of his influence and power as evident by the way Brian Burke was dismissed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/shoalts-tanenbaum-left-to-do-the-dirty-work-for-mlse-board/article7159566/

Much of the speculation and discussion has been about how long can this partnership truly last between these to pardon the pub "Ultra Competitive Competitors". That is ever so evident when you consider the details regarding how this deal almost fell apart and in many ways actually did at first.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/bce-rogers-rift-scuttles-deal-to-buy-mlse/article4180555/

Even as we sit here today, the board is changing with the retirement of Rogers CEO Nadir Mohamed . The new CEO in Guy Laurence from what I can gather could bring completely different to the table, he is a very interesting fellow to say the least. But what I found interesting in the Globe and Mail article is one statement, that gives your perspective on how Rogers view their MLSE partnership and how it led them to pursue the NHL national TV rights on their own.

The company, according to a source, decided to gun for the NHL deal alone in order to ensure flexibility – a decision influenced by their experience in having to run by partner Bell every minor decision relating to MLSE.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/how-new-ceo-guy-laurence-plans-to-shake-up-the-game-at-rogers/article15693800/?page=1

So based on this I could see TL facing an interesting situation in the coming years. The MLSE purchase was about one thing for Bell and Rogers, protecting their position in terms of content. Now that Rogers has this 12 year deal for the NHL national TV rights in the grand scale of things is the headache of having to deal with Bell as a MLSE partner worth it. The nail in the coffin could be ending up with a long term local Leafs deal. Just from my perspective I think it is far more likely that one of the two companies will want out than the partnership lasting long term.

[ensco]

I liked the airplane analogy...what happened to it??
Anyway, yeah we're just arguing over whose fault it is more.

Deleted by accident. What I said was, if you own a 747, and you hire someone who can't fly the plane, and it crashes, whose fault is that?

[ensco]

The acquisition of MLSE was designed to minimize the amount of money Bell and Rogers put into this, and MLSE was levered up (to the tune of $700M) by Bell and Rogers in the acquisition. Debt service eats up all the cash flow now.

Some chickens are going to come home to roost here sooner than later. The incremental $17M a year for 5 or 6 years that Leiweke just convinced them to spend on minor league soccer is meaningful, when cash flow was $80-100M to begin with (I'm talking cash flow for the whole MLSE shebang).

If Leiweke doesn't find immediate sources of income to offset these investments, he will soon need to go cap in hand (for the Raptors or Leafs or whatever) and there will be problems. If there is no money for something the Leafs want because TL spent like a drunken sailor on soccer, watch out - the knives will be out faster than you can spell Leiweke. If there needs to be capital calls, well, as noted above, the unholy alliance is already over. So getting Bell and Rogers to agree on anything at MLSE may prove impossible.

Leiweke doesn't have the amount of time he thinks he does, or that he's been told he does. Soccer teams don't come together overnight. The Leafs true cap/competitive situation will be revealed by the next FA period. He is in for a very rough ride in about 6 months.

This part of it makes me glad TL did this. We're screwed anyway, may as well have a few laughs and see what happens, and who knows and all that .... but I fear it'll all seem like a bad heroin binge in two years.

[Red CB Toronto]

The acquisition of MLSE was designed to minimize the amount of money Bell and Rogers put into this, and MLSE was levered up (to the tune of $700M) by Bell and Rogers in the acquisition. Debt service eats up all the cash flow now.

Some chickens are going to come home to roost here sooner than later. The incremental $17M a year for 5 or 6 years that Leiweke just convinced them to spend on minor league soccer is meaningful, when cash flow was $80-100M to begin with (I'm talking cash flow for the whole MLSE shebang).

So is that correct, Bell and Rogers have leveraged MLSE to service debt in other asps of their business?

If Leiweke doesn't find immediate sources of income to offset these investments, he will soon need to go cap in hand (for the Raptors or Leafs or whatever) and there will be problems. If there is no money for something the Leafs want because TL spent like a drunken sailor on soccer, watch out - the knives will be out faster than you can spell Leiweke. If there needs to be capital calls, well, as noted above, the unholy alliance is already over. So getting Bell and Rogers to agree on anything at MLSE may prove impossible.

Leiweke doesn't have the amount of time he thinks he does, or that he's been told he does. Soccer teams don't come together overnight. The Leafs true cap/competitive situation will be revealed by the next FA period. He is in for a very rough ride in about 6 months.

This part of it makes me glad TL did this. We're screwed anyway, may as well have a few laughs and see what happens, and who knows and all that .... but I fear it'll all seem like a bad heroin binge in two years.

So are you saying Bell and Rogers have leveraged MLSE to service debt in other parts of their respective business? When I think about this unholy alliance, an exit strategy for either of them must be a part of their partnership agreement, so how would you see it happening, a first right of refusal on each others shares and maybe even have something along the lines of a shotgun clause? I am curious would a partnership agreement involve Bell, Rogers and Larry or would the the two telecommunications giants have some sort of agreement of their own? In many ways as long as the two agree to vote as a block Larry's standing is irrelevant to the process.

So if someone was going to jump first, who likely would it be, Bell or Rogers?

[ensco]

]So are you saying Bell and Rogers have leveraged MLSE to service debt in other parts of their respective business? [/B]When I think about this unholy alliance, an exit strategy for either of them must be a part of their partnership agreement, so how would you see it happening, a first right of refusal on each others shares and maybe even have something along the lines of a shotgun clause? I am curious would a partnership agreement involve Bell, Rogers and Larry or would the the two telecommunications giants have some sort of agreement of their own? In many ways as long as the two agree to vote as a block Larry's standing is irrelevant to the process.

So if someone was going to jump first, who likely would it be, Bell or Rogers?

No, they borrowed against MLSE. They each put in $500M cash, and borrowed $600-700M against the company at closing (they never disclosed the exact amount of the loan). That's how you get to $2.1 billion (or $1.6-1.7 billion for Teachers' 80% interest). There were some adjustments that would have had to be made to reflect Tanenbaum's interest.

[OgtheDim]

IIRC, the deal between these two exists because they didn't trust each other to own MLSE. With the hockey deal, Bell ain't going to back out now; all they would have left for content is the CFL and whatever ESPN tosses them. Rogers might as they have hockey and baseball and that would be enough to survive. But why do that when you can continue to fence in your biggest rival?

[Phil]

Well I posted it here - or in the transfer thread, that it would be Defoe or Gilardino. I was told this a few times over the course of this saga, 1 'A' dp and 1 'B' dp, the surprise was Bradley for sure. I ended up meeting Sandra (Defoe's Mom) during that week where she was visiting Toronto, pretty interesting times for sure. Good article and a fun read, I suspect there is much more to all this than what is just in the piece. Its good to be able to move onto the actual on field product.

[Waggy]

IIRC, the deal between these two exists because they didn't trust each other to own MLSE. With the hockey deal, Bell ain't going to back out now; all they would have left for content is the CFL and whatever ESPN tosses them. Rogers might as they have hockey and baseball and that would be enough to survive. But why do that when you can continue to fence in your biggest rival?

Bell signed deals for NCAA football/basketball, have the MLS deal (plus a bunch of european soccer), tennis, f1, nba, cfl, a HUGE nfl deal starting next season and a bunch of other stuff I can't think of off the top of my head. They aren't hurting for content. The NHL deal had nothing to do with the MLSE stuff. It was 2 telecom giants trying to outbid each other for exclusive rights to the most valuable property in the country. Rogers bid a number Bell was unwilling to match. Don't think it has much relevance at all for our purposes. If anything it frees up cash and airtime for the properties I care infinitely more about (like TFC/MLS, the NFL, nba and the ncaa sports). I can't wait for next season. Imagine what it would do for soccer/basketball in this country if TSN started giving TFC and the Raptors the same kind of treatment they give the CFL right now? I'm already picturing a 24/7 type thing on TFC this year. I'm practically salivating.

[jabbronies]

Well I posted it here - or in the transfer thread, that it would be Defoe or Gilardino. I was told this a few times over the course of this saga, 1 'A' dp and 1 'B' dp, the surprise was Bradley for sure. I ended up meeting Sandra (Defoe's Mom) during that week where she was visiting Toronto, pretty interesting times for sure. Good article and a fun read, I suspect there is much more to all this than what is just in the piece. Its good to be able to move onto the actual on field product.

And to be honest I don't give a fuck what that story is. Any chance we can split the forum up into "MLSE Business Operations" and "Actual Football Discussion". That way the group of people who are not interested in always bring every topic back to ownership mishaps can avoid all of the BNN style conversations.

I get it - MLSE, no matter who owns them, are incompetent and we will never have a real team that will compete or win anything in any sport as long as they are around.

[ensco]

^Are you just taking the mickey because you had a bad day? What is this?

This is a thread about the inside story of how super expensive players were acquired. That is 100% a business story, and zero percent an "actual football operations" issue.

Also, please name names, if you're bothered by something (thread hijack or whatever). This type of swearing at unnamed people "who do stuff I don't like" type comment wrecks the boards, because about 100 people think you are writing about them.

[jabbronies]

^Are you just taking the mickey because you had a bad day? What is this?

This is a thread about the inside story of how super expensive players were acquired. That is 100% a business story, and zero percent an "actual football operations" issue.

Also, please name names, if you're bothered by something (thread hijack or whatever). This type of swearing at unnamed people "who do stuff I don't like" type comment wrecks the boards, because about 100 people think you are writing about them.

Post #84 is where it turns IMO

I get the rest of the thread conversation and how it pertains, but post #84 is where it starts to turn away from the topic and start to go back to that nagging, over arching conversation regarding ownership of the club and not the story which started the thread.

[ensco]

I think the question of how TFC spent this kind of money, the story being spun about that, and what that means, is what this thread is about.

Maybe that post should be in a separate thread, but maybe it belongs here, in boldface.

[Shakes McQueen]

Post #84 is where it turns IMO

I get the rest of the thread conversation and how it pertains, but post #84 is where it starts to turn away from the topic and start to go back to that nagging, over arching conversation regarding ownership of the club and not the story which started the thread.

I'll agree it goes a little afield of the original point of the thread, but a) not by much, and b) tangents are pretty standard in virtually every thread on this board. As long as his post isn't insulting or trolling, I don't really see the problem. His post was, at worst, tangentially related to the article being discussed.

If you disagree with what he is saying, then push back. If you just find it too negative or cynical for your tastes, then post something relevant to move the discussion in a different direction, or move on altogether.

- Scott

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'll defend the explaining of how we got to this point with these aquisitions with the biz numbers but it still breaks down to an fb status of


"Yeah but they still are gonna suck"


I'm glad some people (including you ensco) will try to enjoy the season of hope regardless how we'll have to pay the piper later. I don't know enough about what goes on behind that curtain but my lack of interest in knowing is what usually keeps me from posting. It's not unlike looking at the gossip rags in the checkout line. I'm not going to look inside since most of it is unknown for sure and may turn out to be false altogether.

To each his own. There's a formation thread around here somewhere...

[SilverSamurai]

Good read!
Thanks!

[ensco]

There is a reasonable constructive criticism here.

If mods want, I will start an MLSE Board/Ownership thread. May take me a few days, I would want to summarize some of the topics (how the governance works, the financials, the shareholder's agreements, etc), or if someone else wants to go now, be my guest!

[Abou Sky]

There is a reasonable constructive criticism here.

If mods want, I will start an MLSE Board/Ownership thread. May take me a few days, I would want to summarize some of the topics (how the governance works, the financials, the shareholder's agreements, etc), or if someone else wants to go now, be my guest!

I don't have a say, but that would actually be a great thread and kill two birds with one stone

[Red CB Toronto]

There is a reasonable constructive criticism here.

If mods want, I will start an MLSE Board/Ownership thread. May take me a few days, I would want to summarize some of the topics (how the governance works, the financials, the shareholder's agreements, etc), or if someone else wants to go now, be my guest!

I have found this thread to be a very interesting, insightful discussion spawned out of the Toronto Star article and one that will be evolving by the moment with the Toronto Argonauts ownership story that has come up.

[Cashcleaner]

^ It's funny that you say it like that; because Bradley, Defoe, and the business with the Argos is totally interconnected. Let's not kid ourselves about that.

I certainly can't be the only person who feels that acquiring the Argonauts and bringing them to BMO Field was possibly a decision made quite a while ago, and the Defoe/Bradley signings are part of a calculated response to renew interest back into the soccer club which will now be groundsharing with the CFL team.

[DOMIN8R]

I'm interested in the business and ownership side of TFC. It affects directly or indirectly every move the team makes off the field. Whether it's an MLSE Board/Ownership thread or the information/comments are weaved through existing threads - it should be posted either way. Personally, I think it belongs in existing threads. When the Fake Tom Anselmi Diary thread was active - although it was a fun read on it's own - it often tied to content in other threads. As a result, it was more difficult to follow. Sometimes, I hadn't read the other related threads. Some would argue that I post too quickly and don't read threads completely before posting now! Right Shakes? So my vote is to keep it in existing threads FWIW.

[ensco]

^Having slept on it, I think Dom is right.

I will do a thread at some point on MLSE's financial condition, mostly because it's the one aspect of the new Bogers MLSE that the media have completely ignored. MLSE has very little free cash, it's kind of in the position of the trust fund kid who has to go to divorced parents that hate each other, to get more cash.

[tfcleeds]

^ It's funny that you say it like that; because Bradley, Defoe, and the business with the Argos is totally interconnected. Let's not kid ourselves about that.

I certainly can't be the only person who feels that acquiring the Argonauts and bringing them to BMO Field was possibly a decision made quite a while ago, and the Defoe/Bradley signings are part of a calculated response to renew interest back into the soccer club which will now be groundsharing with the CFL team.

Bingo. There's a reason this is all coming out right now, just after two major signings which have created a sense of optimism around the fanbase. We would have been ready to lynch someone otherwise (and judging by the tone of this thread, that may yet happen ;)). Look, this really sucks, but we've known this could happen for awhile now. Now is the time to start looking for solutions that will minimize the impact. Maybe have turf that could be rolled into BMO for Argos games so that the grass isn't affected at all, a la Phoenix. I don't know - I'm just throwing ideas out there. Believe me, I don't like this any more than anyone else does, but does anyone honestly think that the Argos weren't going to be part of the package as part of a revamped BMO?

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Having slept on it, I think Dom is right.

I will do a thread at some point on MLSE's financial condition, mostly because it's the one aspect of the new Bogers MLSE that the media have completely ignored. MLSE has very little free cash, it's kind of in the position of the trust fund kid who has to go to divorced parents that hate each other, to get more cash.


Do me a favour ensco. In your write-up could you add just a post script as to how YOU would improve on the situation. I say this because I'm confident you have the wherewithall to provide at least a "thumb in the dike" or "stop the bleeding" on this subject.

Otherwise I personally will read it as a financial wristslitters club thread.g:D


Appreciate it.