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jmeisenh
01-21-2014, 09:18 PM
Posted this question on Twitter (@jmeisenh) without much response. Probably because I'm only limited to 140 characters. I still think it's worth discussing if it hasn't been already.

I've seen the word "superclub" being used to describe Toronto FC now. Is it warranted? On paper it may appear to be. We're surely bound to be better, if not a playoff contender. Being a superclub says to me that we're beyond good and that we're in a higher tier capable of beating teams outside MLS. I personally don't think we deserve any label like that until we've proven it on the field for at least a few matches. Is it too much pressure even if it is warranted? Is the pressure sometimes a good thing to keep a fire under our butts. I do except quite a few prime-time match times, especially in summer, as a result though.

What are your thoughts?

Pint
01-21-2014, 09:22 PM
I would say it is nearly impossible to be a "superclub" in a cap system. Sure we have spent a ton of money on a couple players but at most our "superclub" money is spread over 27% of the players we have on the pitch. I like what they have done and i believe it is the right thing to do in the MLS system but a "'superclub" to me is a club that is superior at every position on the field not just the few where they are able to splash cash.

Cashcleaner
01-22-2014, 12:37 AM
It's not warranted. We are nowhere near that level of status and Pint pretty much sums up why that is.

Also, I don't believe in slapping on labels like that before we have anything to back it up with. Right now the only trophies we have of any significance are our domestic championship titles - awarded to the winner of a tourney that includes only two other top-flight clubs and two lower tier teams. To put it bluntly, we don't yet have the sort of hardware that demands an elevated status.

Abou Sky
01-22-2014, 12:41 AM
Real Madrid is a Super Club

Toronto FC is not.

Shakes McQueen
01-22-2014, 12:42 AM
How about we make the MLS playoffs for the first time in club history, before we have any frank discussions about our status as a "superclub".

We can show off our trophy case, filled to the brim with a couple of V-Cups we won in a three team tournament. Superclub!

- Scott

TFC07
01-22-2014, 12:44 AM
It's impossible of creating "superclub" team in soft salary cap league like MLS. Another problem is that MLS isn't best soccer league in the world, so it's very hard to create a superclub. All best players playing in Europe not in MLS. So I don't personally like using "superclub" word to describe any team in MLS.

TFC07
01-22-2014, 12:45 AM
Real Madrid is a Super Club

Toronto FC is not.

Yes. This post sums up my opinion.

ArmenJBX
01-22-2014, 12:47 AM
To borrow (and change) the words of Zangief from Wreck-It Ralph:

Just because you're not SuperClub TM

http://www.craveonline.com/images/stories/2011/2012/October/Film/Wreck-It_Ralph_Zangief.jpg


Doesn't mean you're not Super Club!

GuelphStorm2007
01-22-2014, 01:17 AM
We are by no means a super club. How about we just for starters make the play offs first have a decent CCL. Lets not act like the Blue Jay fans last year. First tASK Beat Seattle at home on March 15.

trane
01-22-2014, 06:25 AM
hahahahahahaha. Lets win something, and then win a little more, and then maybe we can even think of these kind of discussions.

I would say that the first ingredient for being a super-club is a winning tradition. I think you need to be drinking super kool-aid to look at our first seven years and see a winning tradition.

Red4ever
01-22-2014, 08:19 AM
To borrow (and change) the words of Zangief from Wreck-It Ralph:

Just because you're not SuperClub TM

http://www.craveonline.com/images/stories/2011/2012/October/Film/Wreck-It_Ralph_Zangief.jpg


Doesn't mean you're not Super Club!


Perfect haha We'll all need a self help group if this season goes south.

TOBOR !
01-22-2014, 08:47 AM
Here's my formula for achieving 'Super Club' status :

History + Recognizeable Success + Top Quality Team + Global Branding = Super Club.

We have none of these things, and aren't likely to in our lifetime.

Captain
01-22-2014, 08:53 AM
I think we'd need a few of those little silver and gold stars above our logo before we could even start having this conversation.

Huyton
01-22-2014, 08:59 AM
How about we make the MLS playoffs for the first time in club history, before we have any frank discussions about our status as a "superclub".

We can show off our trophy case, filled to the brim with a couple of V-Cups we won in a three team tournament. Superclub!

- Scott

There's also a Trillium Trophy and an autographed picture of Himself, CRonaldo7, in there too.

Would you like to reconsider?

MartinUtd
01-22-2014, 09:24 AM
LA wasn't a superclub in the Beckham years and DC United weren't a super club in the 90's. This sounds like click bait to me.

Flipityflu
01-22-2014, 09:30 AM
from worst team in the world to super club in 6 months...most impressive.

Canary10
01-22-2014, 09:34 AM
Can this thread be removed? It is so completely premature that I fear it will jinx the entire season.

Fort York Redcoat
01-22-2014, 09:37 AM
Can this thread be removed? It is so completely premature that I fear it will jinx the entire season.

Well now it is. Thanks a lot.

Canary10
01-22-2014, 09:41 AM
Well now it is. Thanks a lot.

Ha. Can everyone please knock on wood?

Oldtimer
01-22-2014, 09:57 AM
Here's my formula for achieving 'Super Club' status :

History + Recognizeable Success + Top Quality Team + Global Branding = Super Club.

We have none of these things, and aren't likely to in our lifetime.

History isn't that necessary. The original NY Cosmos in the original NASL was a SuperClub, they had some of the biggest names on the planet and won 70% of their games. They had global branding and presence. Also like most SuperClubs they bled red ink, and eventually Time Warner cut the purse-strings.

TOBOR !
01-22-2014, 10:04 AM
I predict TFC wins every game this season and the Tims get Ibra to sign as a non-DP, in exchange for a development program with Paris SG.

Later on, Sepp Blatter will be seen up at the academy, cavorting with Bogers Execs amid strong rumours that Canada's WC bid "will be taken seriously".

He goes home with a briefcase that he didn't come with.

TOBOR !
01-22-2014, 10:06 AM
History isn't that necessary. The original NY Cosmos in the original NASL was a SuperClub, they had some of the biggest names on the planet and won 70% of their games. They had global branding and presence. Also like most SuperClubs they bled red ink, and eventually Time Warner cut the purse-strings.

I don't think SuperClubs, in the context we're using the term now, existed in the 70's. This is more a recent phenomenon.

tfcleeds
01-22-2014, 10:12 AM
Errr, no we're not. / thread?

Super
01-22-2014, 10:18 AM
We're not a Super Club in the same way that Real Madrid is one, but we sure as hell threw around money as though we were. Not many clubs can take on new salary the way we did. Maybe we're a NEW Super Club in MLS terms. You spend $100 mil on 2 players in the MLS and you're considered pretty special. Super Club usually means the club has the financial means to buy a title. Chelsea, City, etc. all super clubs thanks to cash.

trane
01-22-2014, 10:24 AM
Here's my formula for achieving 'Super Club' status :

History + Recognizeable Success + Top Quality Team + Global Branding = Super Club.

We have none of these things, and aren't likely to in our lifetime.

Alright lets try the formula;

History: 7 years of lossing
Recognizeable Success:Trilim and Canadian Championship
Top Quality Team: Sure top quality CSL team for sure
Global Branding: well people now us, in our minds we are kind of a bid deal, we porbably have a library full of leather bound books so: global branding;YES (sorta)
Super Club: IN THE MINDS OF SOME YES (super kool aid anyone?)

trane
01-22-2014, 10:27 AM
I would not mind a banner/t-shirt with that; TFC=SUPER CLUB?

It is up there with WE WANT BUTTER.

JuliquE
01-22-2014, 10:53 AM
Ha. Can everyone please knock on wood?
I don't know, mate; seems most around here prefer to TOUCH wood, as opposed to knocking on it, and I'm sure they would gladly do so for you. :lol:

** * **

To be fair, I don't think that anyone labelling us as such (not going to say it, because I'm superstitious like a bowse) would be so deluded as to think that we could compete with the likes of RM, PSG, City and so on, when it comes to spending on players; rather, I think that people are meaning this in MLS terms, as a few of the usual pundits around the league have, a couple of times, clarified.

That said, I agree with the general sentiment that we're getting way ahead of ourselves even discussing it. Until we've established a winning tradition, with the percentages and hardware to show for it, the pressures of prematurely bearing such a label would only contribute to the theme of instability, causing mass hysteria, when we don't meet those expectations.

ensco
01-22-2014, 10:55 AM
You mean like the club in the UAE that signed Cannavaro? Or the Chinese team that signed Anelka and Drogba? Or the J League clubs that signed Dunga, Emerson...

The kind of super club that nobody (who doesn't follow that league) remembers the name of, 30 seconds after they've read about the signing?

Could be.

brad
01-22-2014, 11:11 AM
This is one of the silliest threads I think I have ever read here.

What we are is a the worst team in MLS history, but we have added two quality experienced players, one unknown quantiy from Brazil and made a few astute moves on other players. No more, no less until this group hits the field and proves otherwise with results.

brad
01-22-2014, 11:14 AM
You mean like the club in the UAE that signed Cannavaro? Or the Chinese team that signed Anelka and Drogba? Or the J League clubs that signed Dunga, Emerson...

The kind of super club that nobody (who doesn't follow that league) remembers the name of, 30 seconds after they've read about the signing?

Could be.

I don't know about you, but when I think super club, Anzhi Makhachkala is the first team that comes to mind. Well, not anymore...

Super
01-22-2014, 11:23 AM
I think we're comparing ourselves and the MLS to other leagues in the world - and therefore also the definition of a Super Club.

In MLS terms, we've just made a move that is miles ahead of what any other club in the league could do, or have done (except maybe Becks at LA). As a result we're now perceived as a financial super power - hence the name Super Club. Let's face it: that's all that matters these days anyway. Financial power. Why else is Chelsea and Man City players in the EPL - if not for money?

pdubs
01-22-2014, 11:26 AM
we need to be
-continuous contenders for MLS Cup year after year,
-win and continue to assert dominance in the CONCACAF Champions league,
-continue to spend massive amounts of $$ and attracting the best worldwide players in their prime (ie Not Defoe/Henry/Keane past 30.. need them in their prime
-ie make Toronto the place where top players want to play in their prime.
-and maybe most important...all within the realm of MLS. As MLS is currently structured no chance... if it continues to evolve then possibly could say North American Superclub.
-worldwide? come back in 25 years can better gauge it then LOL

not serious discussion... sooooo many things need to happen.. most importantly salary cup structure.

Pint
01-22-2014, 11:38 AM
Sorry didn't read the 2nd half of the last page but if we want to be a superclub their is 1 thing we can control....

Reclaiming our rightful spot at the top of the supporters hierarchy in MLS.

TOBOR !
01-22-2014, 11:50 AM
This is one of the silliest threads I think I have ever read here.

What we are is a the worst team in MLS history, but we have added two quality experienced players, one unknown quantiy from Brazil and made a few astute moves on other players. No more, no less until this group hits the field and proves otherwise with results.

You can blame TL - didn't he say it was his goal to turn TFC into a SUPERCLUB TM ?

ensco
01-22-2014, 11:50 AM
I don't know about you, but when I think super club, Anzhi Makhachkala is the first team that comes to mind. Well, not anymore...

No way you spelled that without looking it up. Fess up.

brad
01-22-2014, 11:56 AM
No way you spelled that without looking it up. Fess up.

Fully admit it - 100%....

TOBOR !
01-22-2014, 11:56 AM
I would not mind a banner/t-shirt with that; TFC=SUPER CLUB?

It is up there with WE WANT BUTTER.

How about TFC SUPPER CLUB ?

We can take turns hosting meetings on Wednesday evenings, serving up delectable delights in our homes while discussing the plight of one of the lesser well-known top clubs in the world.

Detroit_TFC
01-22-2014, 12:01 PM
I know this may sound like crazy talk but here goes - TFC will play in all their games this season, every one of them.

Write it down!

Canary10
01-22-2014, 12:17 PM
How about TFC SUPPER CLUB ?

We can take turns hosting meetings on Wednesday evenings, serving up delectable delights in our homes while discussing the plight of one of the lesser well-known top clubs in the world.

Ha ha. I misread it as that for a moment then saw your post.

MartinUtd
01-22-2014, 12:26 PM
Didn't they already do TFC Supper Club? It involved BBQ's and a warm heartfelt message.

Super
01-22-2014, 12:43 PM
Here's my thought: WE didn't call TFC a Super Club. Others did. Alexi Lalas was the first one to drop the words. Spending $100 mil on 2 players certainly doesn't make you average in the MLS.

I don't personally care too much. Every league will have super clubs. We're definitely one of them - simply because of our financial power. We'll always have an advantage in that regard. Same with NYRB and LA, and maybe Seattle. 4 teams that enjoy special power when it comes to the almighty dollar. Call it super clubs. Call it the privileged. Don't care. But let's not make up rules on what a Super Club is supposed to be, because there are no rules. It's down to the fans of that league and how they perceive other clubs. Right now, yes, RIGHT NOW, I'm seeing a lot of supporters of other teams call us the new Super Club because of our massive moves.

Deal with it! Beats being called the worst club in the world.

tfcleeds
01-22-2014, 12:56 PM
Here's my thought: WE didn't call TFC a Super Club. Others did. Alexi Lalas was the first one to drop the words. Spending $100 mil on 2 players certainly doesn't make you average in the MLS.I don't personally care too much. Every league will have super clubs. We're definitely one of them - simply because of our financial power. We'll always have an advantage in that regard. Same with NYRB and LA, and maybe Seattle. 4 teams that enjoy special power when it comes to the almighty dollar. Call it super clubs. Call it the privileged. Don't care. But let's not make up rules on what a Super Club is supposed to be, because there are no rules. It's down to the fans of that league and how they perceive other clubs. Right now, yes, RIGHT NOW, I'm seeing a lot of supporters of other teams call us the new Super Club because of our massive moves.Deal with it! Beats being called the worst club in the world.Agreed - but it really doesn't mean anything unless our monetary advantages translate to results on the field.

TOBOR !
01-22-2014, 01:19 PM
Here's my thought: WE didn't call TFC a Super Club. Others did. Alexi Lalas was the first one to drop the words. Spending $100 mil on 2 players certainly doesn't make you average in the MLS.

I don't personally care too much. Every league will have super clubs. We're definitely one of them - simply because of our financial power. We'll always have an advantage in that regard. Same with NYRB and LA, and maybe Seattle. 4 teams that enjoy special power when it comes to the almighty dollar. Call it super clubs. Call it the privileged. Don't care. But let's not make up rules on what a Super Club is supposed to be, because there are no rules. It's down to the fans of that league and how they perceive other clubs. Right now, yes, RIGHT NOW, I'm seeing a lot of supporters of other teams call us the new Super Club because of our massive moves.

Deal with it! Beats being called the worst club in the world.

That's the Newcastle United argument. We are a big club, because we are a big club. Someone still has to run the thing properly.

Super
01-22-2014, 01:22 PM
Agreed - but it really doesn't mean anything unless our monetary advantages translate to results on the field.

Of course. But that goes without saying. Having money is a very real advantage in any league, even ours. We've just blown our advantage year after year due to terrible mismanagement. Hopefully this is the start of a new era with the club.

Super
01-22-2014, 01:25 PM
That's the Newcastle United argument. We are a big club, because we are a big club. Someone still has to run the thing properly.

Yup! Even Barcelona has to be run properly. Doesn't negate the fact that there's potential and advantages not enjoyed by smaller/average sized clubs.

Huyton
01-22-2014, 01:31 PM
How about TFC SUPPER CLUB ?

We can take turns hosting meetings on Wednesday evenings, serving up delectable delights in our homes while discussing the plight of one of the lesser well-known top clubs in the world.

I think the Tailgate team needs to change its name.

trane
01-22-2014, 01:31 PM
How about TFC SUPPER CLUB ?

We can take turns hosting meetings on Wednesday evenings, serving up delectable delights in our homes while discussing the plight of one of the lesser well-known top clubs in the world.

This I like. Very Toronto Life.

tiberius
01-22-2014, 07:10 PM
Perfect haha We'll all need a self help group if this season goes south.

? The RPB forum IS the self help group that has supplied assistance in the last 4-5 years to those hopelessly and dangerously addicted to Toronto FC. If the self help group needs self help, then I think we have reached the end of the line...:)

Gazza
01-22-2014, 07:53 PM
When Koevermans said we were the worst team in the world, he really meant "all we have to do is add a few players here and there and we'll automatically be a super club!"

I do like the supper club idea. Or the tea time club for the more sophisticated lot.

BuSaPuNk
01-22-2014, 08:45 PM
Reclaiming our rightful spot at the top of the supporters hierarchy in MLS.

This is more important than being a so called super club in my books.

MartinUtd
01-22-2014, 08:50 PM
That's the Newcastle United argument. We are a big club, because we are a big club. Someone still has to run the thing properly.

AKA the Leeds argument 12 years ago.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?

ManUtd4ever
01-22-2014, 10:25 PM
This is one of the silliest threads I think I have ever read here.

What we are is a the worst team in MLS history, but we have added two quality experienced players, one unknown quantiy from Brazil and made a few astute moves on other players. No more, no less until this group hits the field and proves otherwise with results.

We are not a SuperClub yet, even by MLS standards, but I think you are underestimating the overall quality of the off season acquisitions thus far.

Management has added two potential stars in this league in Defoe and Bradley, and a wildcard in Gilberto that might reach that status as well. The other astute moves include a hometown hero and former league MVP, a former MLS all star, and two players with a solid pedigree. On paper, we have one of the strongest lineups in the Eastern Conference, if not the entire league.

It will take time for the roster to gel, but there is legitimate cause for optimism on an unprecedented level.

ensco
01-22-2014, 11:04 PM
Here's my thought: WE didn't call TFC a Super Club. Others did. Alexi Lalas was the first one to drop the words. Spending $100 mil on 2 players certainly doesn't make you average in the MLS.

I don't personally care too much. Every league will have super clubs. We're definitely one of them - simply because of our financial power. We'll always have an advantage in that regard. Same with NYRB and LA, and maybe Seattle. 4 teams that enjoy special power when it comes to the almighty dollar. Call it super clubs. Call it the privileged. Don't care. But let's not make up rules on what a Super Club is supposed to be, because there are no rules. It's down to the fans of that league and how they perceive other clubs. Right now, yes, RIGHT NOW, I'm seeing a lot of supporters of other teams call us the new Super Club because of our massive moves.

Deal with it! Beats being called the worst club in the world.

So you are ok with it?

I actually prefer ensco club, myself.

Shakes McQueen
01-22-2014, 11:25 PM
I'm fine with being called a "big" club, or a "rich" club. But calling ourselves a "superclub" - particularly with our history - is just inviting scorn and ridicule. This new-look team hasn't played a single game yet, and simply splashing an absurd amount of money around doesn't make us any more "super" than the dozens of other relatively unknown clubs around the world, who occasionally make headlines for a day by throwing tens of millions of dollars at a player or two.

We start making the post-season for five years in a row, routinely enter the conversation for MLS Cup, and maybe make some inroads in CONCACAF competitions, and maybe we can consider the title of "MLS Superclub".

- Scott

GuelphStorm2007
01-23-2014, 02:26 AM
I so hate the Super Club moniker, all I want is TFC To improve, gain credibility amongst MLS Supporters , and the casual Soccer fan in the GTA and abroad . I want to see a packed BMO like it was in 2007 / 2008. I want to wear TFC Swag and not hear people saying " Why are wearing that Shit For" That is all I want.

Initial B
01-23-2014, 07:17 AM
We start making the post-season for five years in a row, routinely enter the conversation for MLS Cup, and maybe make some inroads in CONCACAF competitions, and maybe we can consider the title of "MLS Superclub".
Then again, no other club has the services of Drake available to them. That provides some star power, doesn't it?

Fort York Redcoat
01-23-2014, 08:15 AM
Then again, no other club has the services of Drake available to them. That provides some star power, doesn't it?

Um the Raptors? When he takes Raps prospects to TFC matches that will be worth noting.

Super
01-23-2014, 10:28 AM
I'm fine with being called a "big" club, or a "rich" club. But calling ourselves a "superclub" - particularly with our history - is just inviting scorn and ridicule. This new-look team hasn't played a single game yet, and simply splashing an absurd amount of money around doesn't make us any more "super" than the dozens of other relatively unknown clubs around the world, who occasionally make headlines for a day by throwing tens of millions of dollars at a player or two.

We start making the post-season for five years in a row, routinely enter the conversation for MLS Cup, and maybe make some inroads in CONCACAF competitions, and maybe we can consider the title of "MLS Superclub".

- Scott

We're not calling ourselves a Super Club. Others have. I've seen it thrown around. And I think Alexi Lalas was the first one to call us that following the $100 mil signings. Financial super club I guess.

jmeisenh
01-23-2014, 10:42 AM
We're not calling ourselves a Super Club. Others have. I've seen it thrown around. And I think Alexi Lalas was the first one to call us that following the $100 mil signings. Financial super club I guess.

Exactly my point and why I posted the original question. Thanks Super! Personally, I don't agree that we're worthy of the label myself, and even if I did I wouldn't like it or any label adding pressure unless we had the ability to back up the claim. Still a few holes and a few wins away. It's clear that we're moving in the right direction though. We're definitely MLS Off-Season Champs!

Awesome discussion though! Love it!

Super
01-23-2014, 11:19 AM
Exactly my point and why I posted the original question. Thanks Super! Personally, I don't agree that we're worthy of the label myself, and even if I did I wouldn't like it or any label adding pressure unless we had the ability to back up the claim. Still a few holes and a few wins away. It's clear that we're moving in the right direction though. We're definitely MLS Off-Season Champs!

Awesome discussion though! Love it!

That's cool. Yeah, it's not an official title of course, but no one can deny that the type of moves we made were super club worthy. If that's not a super club move, then I don't know what is a super club move. lol

brad
01-23-2014, 12:54 PM
We are not a SuperClub yet, even by MLS standards, but I think you are underestimating the overall quality of the off season acquisitions thus far.

Management has added two potential stars in this league in Defoe and Bradley, and a wildcard in Gilberto that might reach that status as well. The other astute moves include a hometown hero and former league MVP, a former MLS all star, and two players with a solid pedigree. On paper, we have one of the strongest lineups in the Eastern Conference, if not the entire league.

It will take time for the roster to gel, but there is legitimate cause for optimism on an unprecedented level.

I don't think I am underestimating either Bradley or Defoe. I am cautiously optimistic, however I am seriously tempering my expectations based on a number of factors:

*In general, it takes players time to adapt to a new league.
*In general, whenever a team adds a bunch of new players it takes time for them to gel as a team
*It doesn't matter how good the players are, it takes a good manager to get results out of them

Specific to the MLS
*Euro DP's rarely hit the ground running. They usually take time (up to a season) to adapt.
*South American players usually take time, again, up to a season to adapt to the league.
*Being an MLS Allstar doesn't mean much - Brennan was one...

All that said, sure, we might have a stellar season and be one of the best teams in the league. But that that depends on lot stars aligning. We need Bradley, Defoe and Gilberto to buck the trend and hit the ground running. We need to gel as a team very quickly. We need to hope that DeRo last year was not an indication of what DeRo this year will be like.

And the big X-factor no one seems to discuss - we had better hope that an in-experienced Nelsen can turn this team into a winner. That he can outclass more experienced managers tactically. That he can get the team playing together in a competent style. That he can keep hold of the dressing room. That he can rotate his squad and not burn the DP's out. That he can make impactful subsitutions. All of this remains to be seen.

That said - I think Nelsen will do okay. My expectations for this season are that we do alright for the first half of the season - some good results, some bad ones, and start to hit form around July or August. Hopefully at that point we are within touching distance of the playoffs and can make a push from there.

All of this is of course injury dependent. If Defoe and Bradley go down, we are still IMHO a fairly average MLS team.

brad
01-23-2014, 12:58 PM
^^Also, I think that if we keep the core of the team together this year and into 2015 - I think that next year is the year that this team has the real potential to dominate the MLS (based on going into the season as a "team" with players fully adapted to the MLS)

Canary10
01-23-2014, 01:02 PM
^ Also, frankly, a really good manager would be doing well if 50% of his signings work. TFC is hitting way below that. Look at the guys we brought in. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt - chances are only half will work out.

trane
01-24-2014, 10:33 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10590636/Manchester-United-fall-out-of-Deloitte-Football-Money-League-top-three-for-first-time.html

If we are not in the top twenty of this list we are probably not a superclub.

CBTFC
01-24-2014, 10:37 AM
What was that quote by TL during the Defoe/Bradley press conference..."We haven't accomplished anything yet, but we have given ourselves a great opportunity".

I think that sums it up well.

Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic...but unlike past years, a little more optimism than cautiousness.

Oldtimer
01-24-2014, 10:44 AM
When Koevermans said we were the worst team in the world, he really meant "all we have to do is add a few players here and there and we'll automatically be a super club!"



That's why I haven't yet changed my signature. Until my club starts consistently winning, they are still the "Worst Team in the World" until proven otherwise. The additions are hopeful, but unproven. Nelsen is unproven. Show me, then I'll start believing that we are a decent side... and moving up to SuperClub would take some additional proving.

Technorgasm
01-24-2014, 11:27 AM
Posted this question on Twitter (@jmeisenh) without much response. Probably because I'm only limited to 140 characters. I still think it's worth discussing if it hasn't been already.

I've seen the word "superclub" being used to describe Toronto FC now. Is it warranted? On paper it may appear to be. We're surely bound to be better, if not a playoff contender. Being a superclub says to me that we're beyond good and that we're in a higher tier capable of beating teams outside MLS. I personally don't think we deserve any label like that until we've proven it on the field for at least a few matches. Is it too much pressure even if it is warranted? Is the pressure sometimes a good thing to keep a fire under our butts. I do except quite a few prime-time match times, especially in summer, as a result though.

What are your thoughts?

there is a lot of Chatter on Big Soccer about "The next MLS Super club"
and no one on ther has ANY respect for TFC.

Can we go back to being insufferable online warriors all over the damn net if we start winning games?
some of the flame wars were HILLARIOUS!!!

re: Bill Archer.

trane
01-24-2014, 01:21 PM
^ I am ready for that. I am ok with just having more money then them, and rubbing their noses in it.

Gazza
01-24-2014, 08:16 PM
^ I am ready for that. I am ok with just having more money then them, and rubbing their noses in it.

I do get a strange kick out of that haha.

Leedsoronto
01-25-2014, 04:22 PM
This is surely a mistake, there is a p missing

TFC tailgate "SuPPer Club" on the parking lot after the game, Pajamas optional

james
02-02-2014, 04:11 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10590636/Manchester-United-fall-out-of-Deloitte-Football-Money-League-top-three-for-first-time.html

If we are not in the top twenty of this list we are probably not a superclub.

A couple clubs on that list surprise me to be in the top 25.

Anyways I think we will be good contenders in MLS for top spot. But we would still struggle in a league like the premiership or Bundesliga, in fact we would probably get relegated. I still think we are more like a 2nd division club at best, maybe even 3rd division, MLS hasn't improved that much yet. We are no SuperClub. Lets not get over our heads here.

Pookie
02-02-2014, 04:18 PM
Superclub.

Funny.

Team that hasn't made the MLS playoffs where close to 50% of the teams qualify every year.

Superclub.

A team whose better Academy prospects were offered to Philly and the Manager said they had better.

Superclub.

Riddle me this. When Defoe retires and Bradley is in his 30s, are we a "Superclub"?

I'd go with Rich club. But sure wouldn't go with Superclub.

JuliquE
02-02-2014, 06:50 PM
Superclub.

Funny.

Team that hasn't made the MLS playoffs where close to 50% of the teams qualify every year.

Superclub.

A team whose better Academy prospects were offered to Philly and the Manager said they had better.

Superclub.

Riddle me this. When Defoe retires and Bradley is in his 30s, are we a "Superclub"?

I'd go with Rich club. But sure wouldn't go with Superclub.
After reading this, I can't help but feel like some massive troll, of whom started this whole thing, having first referred to us as an MLS SuperClub, is laughing his ass off, somewhere, at us picking ourselves apart, as ever.

Kaz
02-02-2014, 10:42 PM
Even with the spit takes I've said I'll happily do a Spit take if we can pull off at least 15 points from our first 7 games.. and if we are a superclub we'd need to break 60 points at least if not 70.

Heck if we are sitting at 35 points after the world cup.. then I'll say we are a superclub.

jmeisenh
02-08-2014, 04:04 PM
Does adding Julio Cesar, even temporarily, change anybody's mind? Not saying it does mine but this is getting ridiculous don't you think? And Cesar will leave a lasting impressing on the team even after the World Cup. Not only will we pile on the points but it will also be amazing training for Bendik, Roberts, Konopka and the entire back line. On paper, and MLS standards, I really don't know what else we can ask for. Expect maybe a strong winger on the left ... but come on lol.

Shakes McQueen
02-08-2014, 07:03 PM
Does adding Julio Cesar, even temporarily, change anybody's mind? Not saying it does mine but this is getting ridiculous don't you think? And Cesar will leave a lasting impressing on the team even after the World Cup. Not only will we pile on the points but it will also be amazing training for Bendik, Roberts, Konopka and the entire back line. On paper, and MLS standards, I really don't know what else we can ask for. Expect maybe a strong winger on the left ... but come on lol.

We are now thin at DM, our CBs are still questionable, and this revamped roster has yet to play a minute of soccer together. I don't see how adding Julio Cesar on a loan for a few months, makes us a "superclub".

Again - if we start making the post-season every year, making serious inroads in the CCL, consistently being in the conversation for the MLS Cup, and making a habit of spending lots of money on designated players, then we can discuss our status as a potential "MLS Superclub". Until then, it just comes off as daft, and a serious case of counting chickens before they are hatched.

I'm as happy as anyone about the moves we've made, but right now all we are is the Kings of the Offseason - which, incidentally, does NOT come with a trophy.

- Scott

Redcoe15
02-09-2014, 01:39 AM
We are now thin at DM, our CBs are still questionable, and this revamped roster has yet to play a minute of soccer together. I don't see how adding Julio Cesar on a loan for a few months, makes us a "superclub".

Again - if we start making the post-season every year, making serious inroads in the CCL, consistently being in the conversation for the MLS Cup, and making a habit of spending lots of money on designated players, then we can discuss our status as a potential "MLS Superclub". Until then, it just comes off as daft, and a serious case of counting chickens before they are hatched.

I'm as happy as anyone about the moves we've made, but right now all we are is the Kings of the Offseason - which, incidentally, does NOT come with a trophy.

- Scott

SFA!!! (So Fucking Agree)

Abou Sky
02-09-2014, 08:01 AM
It's Toronto's whole thing about winning trophies in the off-season. It is amazing because we seem to do it every year with at least one team.

Waggy
02-09-2014, 08:15 AM
It's Toronto's whole thing about winning trophies in the off-season. It is amazing because we seem to do it every year with at least one team.

Being a Toronto sports fan is what it is to be Charlie Brown trying to kick that football. Ever optimistic. Ever disappointed by Lucy pulling the football away. That said- this TFC team has the most realistic and reasonable reasons for optimism. The Jays 'spending spree' last year that everyone got excited about brought them to the top 15 payrolls in MLB, and the money was spent on a younger pitcher coming off 2 terrible seasons, a 39 year old and a 38 year old. All coming from the 'easier' league to the harder. And the Raptors... I mean has ANYONE ever really had optimism about the Raps? Optimism traditionally is making the playoffs. This club SHOULD be a top 3/4 club in MLS. By payroll, by raw talent, by owner/management ambition. Hopefully this is the time Lucy doesn't pull the fucking football away

Pookie
02-09-2014, 09:16 AM
I like the Kings of the Offseason title.

The common title for all Toronto franchises.

Mostly based on our ownership's reliance on short cuts.

Pre salary cap, the Leafs were in the top in spending. They'd trade draft picks for aging vets like nobody's business.

The Jays, owned by Rogers, assembled some of the most expensive names this year and faltered. When they were successful in the 90's they did it with spending but also on the back of a very strong scouting and development system. My sense is they no longer hold a competitive advantage in scouting areas like the Dominican. Free agency has become the saviour.

The Raptors aren't the biggest spenders but still crack the top 10. They had to have a big name. They play a lot better without the big expensive name. Go figure.

TFC is no different. Top 3 in payroll for years now. Big names and fingers crossed no one gets injured. That's the plan.

That's why we struggle in all sports.

What is nice is that some of the big names on TFC are in their 20s. But I really don't think anyone within Sporting KC is worried about our Superclub.

glaze
02-09-2014, 10:59 AM
For the gamblers, TFC is currently 14-1 to win the title. About mid-pack in the MLS.
Compare that to the Jays last year, who were 6-1 after their offseason moves and favourite to win the world series.
Hopefully we won't have a similar end result to the season.

trane
02-11-2014, 11:32 AM
I like the Kings of the Offseason title.

The common title for all Toronto franchises.

Mostly based on our ownership's reliance on short cuts.

Pre salary cap, the Leafs were in the top in spending. They'd trade draft picks for aging vets like nobody's business.

The Jays, owned by Rogers, assembled some of the most expensive names this year and faltered. When they were successful in the 90's they did it with spending but also on the back of a very strong scouting and development system. My sense is they no longer hold a competitive advantage in scouting areas like the Dominican. Free agency has become the saviour.

The Raptors aren't the biggest spenders but still crack the top 10. They had to have a big name. They play a lot better without the big expensive name. Go figure.

TFC is no different. Top 3 in payroll for years now. Big names and fingers crossed no one gets injured. That's the plan.

That's why we struggle in all sports.

What is nice is that some of the big names on TFC are in their 20s. But I really don't think anyone within Sporting KC is worried about our Superclub.

Well I am also not worried about Sporting KC or KC Wizards, or whatever they will be called next season. No club in this league is anything to be scared off.

TFC07
02-11-2014, 12:19 PM
Well I am also not worried about Sporting KC or KC Wizards, or whatever they will be called next season. No club in this league is anything to be scared off.

Agreed.

On paper, we're best team in the league. We're definitely going to see teams playing their best against us. The only worry I have is Nelsen ability to manage club properly on-field (tactics and subs).

MLS fans might not consider us a "super club", but we sure are becoming most hated club in the league.

I would love to see how Whitecaps and Impact fans are reacting to our signings in off-season.

tfcleeds
02-11-2014, 12:23 PM
I would love to see how Whitecaps and Impact fans are reacting to our signings in off-season. It's more fun watching the Whitecaps implode on their message board re: how things have gone for them this offseason.

TFC07
02-11-2014, 12:25 PM
It's more fun watching the Whitecaps implode on their message board re: how things have gone for them this offseason.

They have a message board? lol

I know one of Impact players criticize management for lack of "experience" players signing in off-season.

Pookie
02-11-2014, 12:47 PM
Well I am also not worried about Sporting KC or KC Wizards, or whatever they will be called next season. No club in this league is anything to be scared off.

Perhaps not. But some clubs have solid foundations to see them through injuries and ensure competitiveness over the long term.

TFC has a lot riding on maintaining health. Not only from a depth perspective but from a budget perspective as well. Unlike the NHL, there is no Long Term Injury Relief if a player goes down.

All for one is simply All In.

Technorgasm
02-14-2014, 03:47 PM
this guy looks pretty good. . . .

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/02/14/toronto-fc-land-brazilian-international-goalkeeper-julio-cesar-loan-queens-p?utm_source=TWIMEmail&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=Hero&utm_campaign=02142014

Seriously though, does anyone have any quotes from other SGs around MLS abotu what is going on here in Tdot?

prizby
02-14-2014, 05:41 PM
It's more fun watching the Whitecaps implode on their message board re: how things have gone for them this offseason.

link?

Shakes McQueen
02-14-2014, 06:57 PM
Agreed.

On paper, we're best team in the league. We're definitely going to see teams playing their best against us. The only worry I have is Nelsen ability to manage club properly on-field (tactics and subs).

MLS fans might not consider us a "super club", but we sure are becoming most hated club in the league.

I would love to see how Whitecaps and Impact fans are reacting to our signings in off-season.

I think the Galaxy still have a solid claim to best team "on paper".

Most MLS fans I've encountered online, are actually kind of happy for us, because we've been such a sad sight for so long.

- Scott

TFC07
02-14-2014, 07:11 PM
I think the Galaxy still have a solid claim to best team "on paper".

Most MLS fans I've encountered online, are actually kind of happy for us, because we've been such a sad sight for so long.

- Scott

I don't know about that. I think they look good, but not great like before. TFC is adding pretty much 4 DP's (Arguably better DP's than LAG), former MVP (DeRo) and some very good role players (Jackson, Rey, Caldwell and Morrow) while keeping some promising players with great upside (Henry and Osorio).

Looking at LAG roster doesn't scare me at all.

Pookie
02-14-2014, 07:58 PM
^ Odds makers have them the favourite. TFC is 8th, sandwiched between Houston and San Jose.

Detroit_TFC
02-14-2014, 10:03 PM
The big risk for a rebuilt side is team chemistry. That uncertainty will keep the odds long for now. Fortunately now we have enough starters together, with just Defoe absent at this point, to start working on team cohesion.

jmeisenh
02-14-2014, 11:41 PM
^ Odds makers have them the favourite. TFC is 8th, sandwiched between Houston and San Jose.

Julio Cesar signing has bumped us up to 6th by the odds makers of Bovada. 10 to 1 right in between Seattle and Real Salt Lake.

[/URL]@KurtLarSUN: TFC's Cup odds get a boost from Cesar. Now 10/1 to win it. Were 14/1. Will he make that big of a difference? (Bovada) [URL="http://t.co/M0FdE71Wvx"]pic.twitter.com/M0FdE71Wvx (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN)

tfcleeds
02-15-2014, 12:05 AM
link?

Unfortunately, looks like the Southsiders are throwing their toys out of the pram. Their message board used to be accessible by all. Now it appears you have to register for it. Perhaps unsurprising given how crappy their offseason has been.

TFC07
02-15-2014, 12:37 AM
^ Odds makers have them the favourite. TFC is 8th, sandwiched between Houston and San Jose.
Gambling odds is based on who most people bet on instead of who's better team. Anyone who follow off-season knows San Jose is going to be an awful team this season. Houston is a mediocre team that usually makes it to the playoffs due to weak Eastern Conference in the past. This year, eastern conference has improved dramatically. I personally wouldn't be shocked if they miss out of playoffs this year.

ag futbol
02-15-2014, 02:06 PM
Gambling odds is based on who most people bet on instead of who's better team. Anyone who follow off-season knows San Jose is going to be an awful team this season. Houston is a mediocre team that usually makes it to the playoffs due to weak Eastern Conference in the past. This year, eastern conference has improved dramatically. I personally wouldn't be shocked if they miss out of playoffs this year.
Both actually factor into the equation. But I'm not sure how much market forces would influence MLS odds.

This isn't like an England / WC phenomenon we are talking about here. I'd assume most people are better on MLS teams because of perception rather than rooting interest and the overall size of the betting book is probably small enough for odds makers to keep prices close to equilibrium.

prizby
02-15-2014, 08:37 PM
Unfortunately, looks like the Southsiders are throwing their toys out of the pram. Their message board used to be accessible by all. Now it appears you have to register for it. Perhaps unsurprising given how crappy their offseason has been.

oh there board...always has been a funny read

BBLaw
02-15-2014, 08:58 PM
Let's get to the playoffs before we even consider calling this team a "Super Club." Haven't done anything in this league yet, just a bunch of names.

SiguenzaFC
02-16-2014, 12:14 AM
Let's get to the playoffs before we even consider calling this team a "Super Club." Haven't done anything in this league yet, just a bunch of names.

My thoughts exactly. Excellent training and youth facilities, big names on paper but it hasn't even began yet. I will be at BMO field when it does begin to be entertained and cheer them on

BBLaw
02-16-2014, 11:25 AM
My thoughts exactly. Excellent training and youth facilities, big names on paper but it hasn't even began yet. I will be at BMO field when it does begin to be entertained and cheer them on

Yep, I learned my lesson, not once, but twice, with the Blue Jays and their big off-season spending sprees and acquisitions. I'm now in wait and see mode as it should be. If things work out though, this club can truly become something special.

jmeisenh
02-24-2014, 04:15 PM
Article on mlssoccer.com (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/02/24/2014-toronto-fc-preview-building-brand-new-superclub-bmo-field-armchair-anal) is titled "2014 Toronto FC Preview: Building a brand new superclub at BMO Field". Looks like the term/label is continuing to be used.

Cashcleaner
02-25-2014, 03:48 AM
Yep, I learned my lesson, not once, but twice, with the Blue Jays and their big off-season spending sprees and acquisitions. I'm now in wait and see mode as it should be. If things work out though, this club can truly become something special.

I think the optimism is justified to be honest and our case is a bit different than the Blue Jays. We haven't just completed an overhaul on the roster; we've got new leadership at the helm as well with the two Tims.


Article on mlssoccer.com (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/02/24/2014-toronto-fc-preview-building-brand-new-superclub-bmo-field-armchair-anal) is titled "2014 Toronto FC Preview: Building a brand new superclub at BMO Field". Looks like the term/label is continuing to be used.

Ahhh, but the key modifier here is the world building.

Toronto FC is indeed in the process of building a new superclub. That's a claim I wouldn't disagree with. But like myself and many have said, we're simply not there yet.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
02-25-2014, 04:17 AM
I think the optimism is justified to be honest and our case is a bit different than the Blue Jays. We haven't just completed an overhaul on the roster; we've got new leadership at the helm as well with the two Tims.



Ahhh, but the key modifier here is the world building.

Toronto FC is indeed in the process of building a new superclub. That's a claim I wouldn't disagree with. But like myself and many have said, we're simply not there yet.

Superclub? In a capped league such as MLS..I find the term quite funny.

The moves that we have made have been very impressive. But to label the team superclub or even building towards such a team is a pipe dream.

Teams in MLS can be great clubs..but will never hit the status of SuperClubs in a capped league.

Hopefully by the end of the season we will be a Great CLUB! :)

trane
02-26-2014, 02:28 PM
How about we start with being a "good club".