4 DP's?

[MartinUtd]

Separate to the discussions of actual player acquisitions, I want to discuss how we are supposed to fit everyone on one roster.

Currently we have 2 DP's on the books with 2 more rumoured to be signing shortly. This leaves us with several outcomes:



MLS and their fluid rules will once again change to favour a team with deep pockets
We lose one of the already signed DP's (guess which one)
We buy a 4th DP spot of someone
We pay down one of the contracts with allocation money
We renegotiate the contact


1st point is up in the air, nothing surprises me when it comes to the opaque nature of the league

2nd point seems most likely and most unfortunate.

3rd point - I'm not even sure if this is possible

4th & 5th points - I don't think these are possible since (as Yohan said in multiple other threads) transfer fees are amortized over the length of the contract (i.e. not front loaded for our convenience). This means that even if Laba is on $200k, his transfer fee ($1.5m IIRC) would push his contract value up to $700k per year. I know we've been harvesting allocation but this is a ludicrous use of it, if it's even possible.

[Yohan]

I'm asking around if a DP can be bought down for just one season and next season go back up to being DP. It would still eat up a lot of allocation money, but it's not crazy amount. DeRo was in this limbo for a while, though his cap hit being bought down did not involve transfer fee.

[OgtheDim]

#1, with the twist of a loan. MLS announces that loaned DP's would not count as a DP.

[Yohan]

#1, with the twist of a loan. MLS announces that loaned DP's would not count as a DP.
it counts as DP towards the loanee team, but the parent team gets the DP spot back

[reggie]

can we trade for another dp

[Yohan]

can we trade for another dp
no..

[Dunkers]

If the leauge max is 368k still, laba comes in at 700 with transfer fees, its only 332K of allocation money

[OgtheDim]

it counts as DP towards the loanee team, but the parent team gets the DP spot back

So if the loaned to team was outside the MLS, the DP spot would come back.

How long is Laba's contract? Two more seasons?

[notthesun]

I'll say this. If there's any way at all that we can hold onto Laba while also signing Bradley without jeopardizing our position relative to the salary cap, I'm sure we'll do it. We have the MLS salary cap wizard running our team, no doubt he'll look at all the options at his disposal, including help from the league in the form of a rule change. A central midfield pair of Laba and Bradley would be the best in the league, and it's not close. Our possession numbers would soar.

However, let's keep things in perspective. If at the end of the day all we did was dump Laba and sign Bradley, we've improved. That's an upgrade. When you throw in the possibility of trading Laba within MLS, we can be looking at adding 1-2 starting quality players to our roster as well. It would be a very good move despite the fact we'd be trading a guy we all love.

Seems like a potential win-win for this club no matter how things play out.

[Yohan]

If the leauge max is 368k still, laba comes in at 700 with transfer fees, its only 332K of allocation money
I'm hearing 375k for this year. 332k is one helluva wackload of allocation money. some teams never get close to that amount. mind you, those teams consistently make playoffs...

[reggie]

thx...I don't want to lose LABA....but ther was some intrest from some clubs in spain before we got him...

[brad]

My gut tells me Garber is going to bend the rules, something like 3 DP's + 1 young DP slot.

[Yohan]

So if the loaned to team was outside the MLS, the DP spot would come back.

How long is Laba's contract? Two more seasons?
doesn't have to be to a team outside the league. TFC can loan Laba to any team, incl MLS, to get DP spot (and int spot) back.

general MLS contract is 2 + 2 yr team option. unless otherwise told (though who knows how that will change pending Camilo drama plays out)

[Yohan]

thx...I don't want to lose LABA....but ther was some intrest from some clubs in spain before we got him...
selling Laba for 1 mil plus (reasonable assumption) would net TFC around 650k in allocation money. that's a lot of allocation

[pdubs]

if you were to ever bend the rules, bending it for a usa national team star like bradley would be the place to do it. 3 DP's + 1 young DP

[MartinUtd]

Buying down a contract of that size with allocation is... unsustainable.

Also I know we were shit last year, but there's something to this "maintain the core" talk that I thought was worth buying into. Yes, and upgrade is an upgrade and I'm sure MB can fill in nicely. But it still doesn't sit well.

[0bl1vious]

This is what I'm thinking:

Remember how Nelsen and Tim took a trip to Italy? As someone else mentioned, it wasn't just for Gilardino...it was for Bradley also.

If that is truly the case, and they knew that Laba would have to be moved, plans to do so would have been already in play. I'm thinking that because we haven't heard anything about selling/loaning Laba up until today, they've probably figured out how have them both.

[brad]

What is the end game to loaning Laba vs moving him for a quality player or two now? Gilberto, Defoe and Bradley are going to lock our DP's slots down for several years. Unless Gilberto is a flop and we are able to move him and bring Laba back, I don't see any point in loaning him out.

[Pint]

This is what I'm thinking:

Remember how Nelsen and Tim took a trip to Italy? As someone else mentioned, it wasn't just for Gilardino...it was for Bradley also.

If that is truly the case, and they knew that Laba would have to be moved, plans to do so would have been already in play. I'm thinking that because we haven't heard anything about selling/loaning Laba up until today, they've probably figured out how have them both.

Armen tweeted today that the last trip to Italy was for Bradley as well...

[Richard]

What is the end game to loaning Laba vs moving him for a quality player or two now? Gilberto, Defoe and Bradley are going to lock our DP's slots down for several years. Unless Gilberto is a flop and we are able to move him and bring Laba back, I don't see any point in loaning him out.

You could potentially build his value up to something higher than what we got for Edu. I think he is good enough to play somewhere in Spain or Italy but right now his global transfer value is lower than what he can really be worth.

[brad]

You could potentially build his value up to something higher than what we got for Edu. I think he is good enough to play somewhere in Spain or Italy but right now his global transfer value is lower than what he can really be worth.

Good point. We pay the DP hit above the cap, and someone else in the league gets a hell of a player for less than the league minimum.

[Kaz]

Based on Wiki you can use allocation to pay down a DP to none DP status, Perhaps they will keep Laba the season and just pay down his salary.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

didnt urruti fall under taht young dp slot? Wish there was some more info on that

[OgtheDim]

Laba wants a certain salary; I don't see teams in Spain and Italy suddenly having more money then they did last spring.


My scenario about a loan was Laba goes away for two years, somewhere where the DP slot isn't involved. In 2016, he comes back on a non-Dp $280K or so contract. Realisticaly, his DP status only is covering his transfer fee. To me that is a better option then a transfer.

Although I REALLY like Laba, he's not worth $700K in allocation.

[notthesun]

didnt urruti fall under taht young dp slot? Wish there was some more info on that

Urruti was a "League DP" as Nelsen called it, though officially that designation doesn't exist. It just means the league kicks in some money and helps to acquire the player, there's no difference in the rules between them and a normal DP. Bez talked about it a while back (http://www.citynews.ca/2013/09/30/toronto-fc-gm-sheds-light-on-urruti-case/). It's still very obscure and murky as far as real details go, typical of MLS.

[Jack]

Tim B knows his MLS salary cap stuff. Let's see what happens...

[MartinUtd]

Although I REALLY like Laba, he's not worth $700K in allocation.

$700k was just my estimate for his transfer fee plus salary per year. If allocation were to pay him down from a DP spot then it would only be approximately half that amount (depending on now much of the cap we would want Laba's contract to take up).

Also, whether Uruuti was a DP or not doesn't matter since we traded him for Dike.

[Jimmy The Saint]

I don't think losing Laba is in the cards here. Some MLS magic is going to come into play - the league wants Bradley, and MLSE is willing to pay for him, and no one else in the league was willing to do it.

MLSE is going to get "rewarded" for drawing a player like Defoe on their own, AND paying to have Bradley come home by some new, off-season, Soccer Don magic Garber dust. TFC is playing nice with the league, and the league is going to reciprocate.

Or at least I'm going to dream this scenario for the next few nights - along with the thought of Defoe scoring off of De Rosario passes.

[ManUtd4ever]

My gut tells me Garber is going to bend the rules, something like 3 DP's + 1 young DP slot.

This is what I'm hoping for, and it wouldn't necessarily throw league parity completely out of whack.

[ManUtd4ever]

doesn't have to be to a team outside the league. TFC can loan Laba to any team, incl MLS, to get DP spot (and int spot) back.

general MLS contract is 2 + 2 yr team option. unless otherwise told (though who knows how that will change pending Camilo drama plays out)

A loan would be a viable option except for the fact that Gilberto, Defoe, and Bradley are all reportedly agreeing to long term contracts in the range of 4-6 years. Unless one of our DPs is traded at some point or MLS adds another DP slot, we wouldn't be able to bring Laba back within the constraints of the salary cap.

[Ultra & Proud]

My gut tells me Garber is going to bend the rules, something like 3 DP's + 1 young DP slot.

I think something will give.

[Ultra & Proud]

My gut tells me Garber is going to bend the rules, something like 3 DP's + 1 young DP slot.

Interweb folks talking noise about having 3 DPs (mix of regular & young like we have now) and a fourth reserved for domestics designed to retain or re-attain top American/Canadian talent. Since that'd get Gonzalez off the DP books I could see LA liking that idea. Probably Seattle too. Plus it would help grow the league. More noise over Dempsey and Bradley than Henry, Keane, and everyone else not named Beckham combined.

[Yohan]

A loan would be a viable option except for the fact that Gilberto, Defoe, and Bradley are all reportedly agreeing to long term contracts in the range of 4-6 years. Unless one of our DPs is traded at some point or MLS adds another DP slot, we wouldn't be able to bring Laba back within the constraints of the salary cap.
Gilberto could flop. Or be sold. I'd rather have options with Laba now, unless someone offers a trade or fee that TFC can't refuse.

[Kaz]

This is what I'm hoping for, and it wouldn't necessarily throw league parity completely out of whack.

I think it is more likely it will just be magic obtuse allocation money to pay Laba down to non DP status. That way you don't open extra DP slots yet.

[ManUtd4ever]

I think it is more likely it will just be magic obtuse allocation money to pay Laba down to non DP status. That way you don't open extra DP slots yet.

That would be a short term solution though. TFC could not afford (in salary cap terms) to pay down his salary with allocation beyond this season, unless we sell one of our existing players. Even then, using up over 300K in allocation to pay down Laba's salary would come at the expense of 1-2 potential starting calibre players.

[OgtheDim]

That would be a short term solution though. TFC could not afford (in salary cap terms) to pay down his salary with allocation beyond this season, unless we sell one of our existing players. Even then, using up over 300K in allocation to pay down Laba's salary would come at the expense of 1-2 potential starting calibre players.

I kinda agree, which is why I'm thinking a new contract, either with a 2 year loan until the DP necessary transfer fee is off the books, or a short term loan because MLS will announce in the next CBA a 4th DP.

DM's and Box to Box midfielders are gold in MLS.

A Laba/Bradley midfield would tear every single other 2 player midfield in this league to shreds. Having watched Bradley, I think he is the creative box to box we are looking for. Couple him with a destroyer of Laba's quality and our possession might get up to 65% a game.

[Kaz]

That would be a short term solution though. TFC could not afford (in salary cap terms) to pay down his salary with allocation beyond this season, unless we sell one of our existing players. Even then, using up over 300K in allocation to pay down Laba's salary would come at the expense of 1-2 potential starting calibre players.

no you are totally right, but it does two things, which is why I think it might be likely.

TFC needs a winning season. Having Laba, Bradley, Gilberto, Defoe, and DeRo plus the pieces we already have, gives us a strong attacking threat and a strong midfield. It gives TFC the best chance to have one season where the Playoffs are in reach right now.

MLS I'm sure would like to see that.

It also gives a chance to make sure that Defoe and the others don't have season ending injuries, pull a Beckham and screw off to Europe on half year loan deals or just turn out to be crap in the league.

For those two reason I suspect at least till summer at the very least they will keep Laba using allocation and then either re-evaluate or start shopping him after his playing with the likes of Bradley, and Defoe.



Put Laba and Bradley in, with Osorio and Rey/Jackson with Defoe and Gilberto/Dike upfront and toss in DeRo at minute 60 to play havoc on tired legs with Bradley's service. TFC could be a dangerous club and Toronto needs that.

[brad]

The other angle here - with Bradley on board - the Don is going to want us to have a good season. He won't won't to see Bradley on a bottom feeder team, and he most certainly will want to see him in the playoffs. Same applies to Defoe I suspect (on a lesser scale).

These big name DP's are as much marketing tools for the league as they are about the football.

All of that points toward the Don throwing is a bone. I suspect if we want to keep Laba and can make the argument that it makes us a better team - rules will change or allocation will appear to make it happen.

[Cashcleaner]

I don't think losing Laba is in the cards here. Some MLS magic is going to come into play - the league wants Bradley, and MLSE is willing to pay for him, and no one else in the league was willing to do it.

MLSE is going to get "rewarded" for drawing a player like Defoe on their own, AND paying to have Bradley come home by some new, off-season, Soccer Don magic Garber dust. TFC is playing nice with the league, and the league is going to reciprocate.

Or at least I'm going to dream this scenario for the next few nights - along with the thought of Defoe scoring off of De Rosario passes.

You might be on to something there. I mean, it certainly sounds like a scenario a team like New York or LA could get away with.

How about this: The league, after years of dwindling attendance from a team that set records in it's first few years, tells MLSE to sort itself out and agrees to waive certain cap restrictions to ensure the acquisition of new top-flight talent to the club.

Bradley back playing in MLS is a huge deal for the league that desperately wants the very best American and Canadian players to stay here rather than move overseas.

[cincy]

Didn't we buy down both O'Dea and Eckersley both $500k+ down with allocation ? this might be possible

[Ultra & Proud]

Didn't we buy down both O'Dea and Eckersley both $500k+ down with allocation ? this might be possible
Yes we did. Eck a bit but O'Dea was on almost $700K which is right around where Laba is at. Must've been near $400K combined.

[nonc]

I don't consider Laba expendable at all and hope we can keep him as a non-DP. Will be distraught otherwise.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Answer to thread title

http://thefuturebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/drew-carey1.jpg


This is the MLS...

[Canary10]

I REALLY hope they can keep Laba and Bradley together. That's one hell of a central midfield.

[ryan]

Laba quickly became my favourite player last year, really hope Tim B figures out some MLS loophole fuckery to make magic happen.

[notthesun]

FWIW Rollins tweeted TFC is "looking at possibility of loaning [Laba] out of league" for 2014. He'd return a regular player in 2015.

[ag futbol]

One year until the CBA, I hope we can hold on.

[mcolvy]

Under the same rules LA got to keep Juninho and SKC for Zusi and Besler, in an effort to retain key players, I believe TFC should be able to utilize this same fund. Its just a transfer fee.

[OfficeGuy]

I think that Bradley coming to MLS (USA) is part of a bigger picture - prep for World Cup closer to home as well as in world class facilities up at KIA training.
Hoping it turns into a loan arrangement so Laba not cast aside for DP Slot.

[arsenal]

I believe that I saw at some point that allocation $ could only be used to buy down contract at the inception of the contract. Not sure if they renegotiate Laba if that would then allow them to use allocation $ to buy down.

Not sure that I would want to see Laba go out on loan for a full year or more .... probably just better to trade him at that point. He is already a year into a 4 year deal. Wasting a year or two more of that contract with him playing out on loan seems counter-productive .... get some assets for him now assuming you can get a fair trade offer.

[Jack]

I'm sure they'll work something out. In the worst case scenario that Laba has to go, I'd still be pleased to have Bradley as his replacement.

[TOBOR !]

FWIW Rollins tweeted TFC is "looking at possibility of loaning [Laba] out of league" for 2014. He'd return a regular player in 2015.

I hope it doesn't come to that. I like what Ultra & Proud ; was saying upthread. I think / hope Garber'll sub-categorize the DP formula.

We could see young/senior international DPs and young/senior domestic DPs. Or indeed, in Bradley and Dempsey you have true 'league' DPs - all they require is someone to pony up the dough.

Although when you get to this point it becomes somewhat farcical (hasn't it ever been thus ?).

[Yohan]

Under the same rules LA got to keep Juninho and SKC for Zusi and Besler, in an effort to retain key players, I believe TFC should be able to utilize this same fund. Its just a transfer fee.
1. Retention fund is suppose to be used to pay for a player's salary. I don't know if you can use it for transfer fees. 2. Zusi and Besler et al have been key players for years, while Laba has done dick all, so don't qualify.

[gdg_9]

Just a thought...

Can you "Loan" a player to their National Team?

For instance, can we loan Bradley to USMNT during World Cup, thereby removing his DP hit from our cap for that month or so?
Would that make it easier to pay down Laba's DP contract the rest of the season? (because you wouldn't need to pay it down during the period Bradley is gone)


Not really sure how the intricacies of the MLS Salary Cap work... although I guess nobody really knows!

[Yohan]

Just a thought...

Can you "Loan" a player to their National Team?

For instance, can we loan Bradley to USMNT during World Cup, thereby removing his DP hit from our cap for that month or so?
Would that make it easier to pay down Laba's DP contract the rest of the season? (because you wouldn't need to pay it down during the period Bradley is gone)


Not really sure how the intricacies of the MLS Salary Cap work... although I guess nobody really knows!
nope

[levyashin]

Just find a way to keep everyone!
Let's be greedy !:scarf:

[69Chevy396]

Gilberto could flop. Or be sold. I'd rather have options with Laba now, unless someone offers a trade or fee that TFC can't refuse.
Gilberto is the real thing, no way he is going anywhere.

[ArmenJBX]

Armen tweeted today that the last trip to Italy was for Bradley as well...

A source told me that but I followed it up with an "I don't know about that."

Feels like the timeline is wrong. From everything else I've heard, it sounds like Bradley fell on TFC's lap out of nowhere.

[Cashcleaner]

^ That sorta makes sense when you consider that nobody outside of the club knew about the deal with Bradley until only very recently. You can't leak any information if you don't have it yourself. So I guess the scenario would go that MLS approaches Bradley with no location yet finalized for him to play at, and Toronto just happened to be the lucky club to pick him up. Was he shopped around to other teams? Were we given first shot at it? Was he auctioned?

Lots of questions could be asked, really. And to be honest, the more I think about the recent news the more I think the league will give it's approval for us keeping Laba on top of everything else.

[brad]

Word is Bradley was still in contention until Roma signed another midfielder, at which time he became surplus to requirements and available.

At least two other teams in Italy wanted him, and one or two in the EPL.

His agent let the MLS know he's was available. The league let the teams know he was and asked who was interested. We were, Philly were, and maybe one other team. We were the only team willing to pay the kind of money it takes.

Ives said of Philly's approach something to the extent of "Philly's offer is like saying I'm interested in a Bugatti but only willing to pay for a Civic"

[PatrickDermody]

Regardless of how we got Bradley, I'm super pumped to see him.

[Super]

You'd have to be the most pessimistic/cynical beast in town to not get at least a little bit excited over everything that's going on with TFC these days.

New regime in place. New direction. Amazing new players + DPs.

It's been YEARS since I've felt this way about TFC. Year one feelings. Feeeeels!!!

[nonc]

Laba is too talented to give to DC United and too young to be concerned about losing him for a year. If he can't stay a loan back to Argentinos Juniors makes sense? Because they might loan us a good depth player they could do without, to keep the bromance rolling.

[gdg_9]

Word is Bradley was still in contention until Roma signed another midfielder, at which time he became surplus to requirements and available.

At least two other teams in Italy wanted him, and one or two in the EPL.

His agent let the MLS know he's was available. The league let the teams know he was and asked who was interested. We were, Philly were, and maybe one other team. We were the only team willing to pay the kind of money it takes.

Ives said of Philly's approach something to the extent of "Philly's offer is like saying I'm interested in a Bugatti but only willing to pay for a Civic"

Heard the KKKrew were interested as well... but their offer wasn't even close. Pretty much HALF of our offer!

[gdg_9]

Laba is too talented to give to DC United and too young to be concerned about losing him for a year. If he can't stay a loan back to Argentinos Juniors makes sense? Because they might loan us a good depth player they could do without, to keep the bromance rolling.


This would make more sense... and hopefully we could bring him back the following year.

Although above all else, I really think we need to find a way to keep Laba as well.
It would make our MF complete, in a way Nelson wants.
Destroyer + Box-to-Box.

I'm not losing all hope of Laba sticking around yet... if anyone can find a loophole to be able to keep him, it's Bez!

[pdubs]

wonder if the presence of NYCFC coming into the league but pressure on MLS to widen the DP rules. Surely they will max it out. But teams like Toronto, LA, NYCFC, Red Bulls, even maybe Orlando coming in idk, will want more DP's, more quality. Could even make a case for Portland.

Seems to me most of the tight purse string teams will either have to adapt or go down to mediocrity.

[Initial B]

Although above all else, I really think we need to find a way to keep Laba as well.
It would make our MF complete, in a way Nelson wants.
Destroyer + Box-to-Box.

I'm not losing all hope of Laba sticking around yet... if anyone can find a loophole to be able to keep him, it's Bez!

Totally agree with you on this.

[jloome]

Totally agree with you on this.

Not so sure. There's talk that just about every team in the league has made a bid for him. Be better to keep him, but maybe at the least we get a high first round pick and a quality player back, too.

[Jack]

If we can turn Laba into a starting central defender who is proven in our league, I'd be ok with that. It does hurt our depth at midfield, though, especially since Bradley is going to be gone for a guaranteed month (4 matches) if not more.