Nelsen looks back on inheriting "Terminal" MLS team

[jabbronies]

Toronto FC manager Ryan Nelsen looks back on inheriting 'terminal' MLS team (http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Toronto+manager+Ryan+Nelsen+looks+back+inheriting+ terminal+team/9252357/story.html)

TORONTO - Ryan Nelsen doesn't mince words when it comes to Toronto FC's roster prior to the 2013 MLS season.

"What we had in pre-season was probably the worst put-together squad in the history of the league," the former New Zealand international said in looking back at the start of his managerial tenure with the underachieving club.

"In the history of the league. It was that bad. It was actually terminal."

That opinion was shared by coaches and others around the league, Nelsen is quick to add.

[MKR]

don't we all know it too?

Honestly the way this team has always put their rosters together before the start of the season has been infuriating. Year after year. Thank Christ they're finally starting to do things the right way and sign players you know BEFORE the preseason and season.

[ManUtd4ever]

This off season has definitely been the most methodical in the history of our franchise. There's still work to be done though.

[PopePouri]

don't we all know it too?

Honestly the way this team has always put their rosters together before the start of the season has been infuriating. Year after year. Thank Christ they're finally starting to do things the right way and sign players you know BEFORE the preseason and season.

An injured Frings, Koev + O'Dea and Ecks on 450k+. That's almost 1/2 of the salary cap gone on 4 players. Even though we some matches, the Mariner Era was the worst IMO.

[cwell]

Create cap space - check. Build team before preseason - check. And now for the next tough but necessary step: be patient and let the team jell. The first three games will be a challenge for management, players and supporters alike. Seattle away, DC with EJ at home and RSL away.

Although three of nine points from those games might be good, they might not meet expectations. Already preparing myself for the worst, depending on how they play, I'd take the three and look for better results from the next three games (Columbus away, Colorado at home and Dallas away). Then, check.



An injured Frings, Koev + O'Dea and Ecks on 450k+. That's almost 1/2 of the salary cap gone on 4 players. Even though we some matches, the Mariner Era was the worst IMO.

[Cashcleaner]

don't we all know it too?

Honestly the way this team has always put their rosters together before the start of the season has been infuriating. Year after year. Thank Christ they're finally starting to do things the right way and sign players you know BEFORE the preseason and season.


This off season has definitely been the most methodical in the history of our franchise. There's still work to be done though.

I think the most refreshing change with this club for many fans is exactly what you guys just outlined. It looks like we're finally going into the new season with most of our roster finalized and ready to go. This is a significant change from previous seasons. :D

[Mr. Bigby]

What's also refreshing is that comments on the board are realistic and accept that even with the progress and hires to date, it will still be a process that takes time, rather than a call for instant gratification!

[Alonso]

What's also refreshing is that comments on the board are realistic and accept that even with the progress and hires to date, it will still be a process that takes time, rather than a call for instant gratification!


Maybe as a fan base we are maturing as well.

[ensco]

Nelsen is overdoing it and being a dick with the hyperbole, this is just insulting people, even if it's true. You never see elite managers do this.

Also the reporter is clueless. Was Nelsen surprised by this? If so, why and how? He left a fantastic, important job, an EPL team in midseason, for this job. If not, why talk about it, he's just running people down who are looking for jobs elsewhere.

The Silva thing obviously still stings, that's pretty interesting, he doesn't want to be tainted by that. Quelle surprise given how bad a trade that is. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Nelsen wouldn't play Silva much, on a team that was hopeless.

All to prove how tough his life is, and how great he is.

[jazzy]

Nelsen is overdoing it and being a dick with the hyperbole, this is just insulting people, even if it's true. You never see elite managers do this.

Also the reporter is clueless. Was Nelsen surprised by this? If so, why and how? He left a fantastic, important job, an EPL team in midseason, for this job. If not, why talk about it, he's just running people down who are looking for jobs elsewhere.

The Silva thing obviously still stings, that's pretty interesting, he doesn't want to be tainted by that. Quelle surprise given how bad a trade that is. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Nelsen wouldn't play Silva much, on a team that was hopeless.

All to prove how tough his life is, and how great he is.

we don't and won't miss Silva at all......

[jloome]

we don't and won't miss Silva at all......

Can't disagree. Same basic skill set as Osorio but half the speed of thought.

[PopePouri]

we don't and won't miss Silva at all......

Yep, he's mediocre and inconsistent. Has bouts where he scores and plays well consistently, but then goes 10 invisible games.

[jabbronies]

What's also refreshing is that comments on the board are realistic and accept that even with the progress and hires to date, it will still be a process that takes time, rather than a call for instant gratification!


Maybe as a fan base we are maturing as well.

A lot of people whos daily routine was to just bitch and complain are also not on the board anymore. That might be more realistic than the idea that the fan base is maturing.

[tfcleeds]

Yeah, he was handed the reins to an absolute mess, but if Nelsen isn't careful, he'll be next to be handed a pink slip. Especially if after all our offseason moves, we still manage to get off to a crappy start. We've heard it all before Nellie. Now instead of grousing about being handed lemons when you got here, time to start making lemonade.

[Pookie]

Nelsen is overdoing it and being a dick with the hyperbole, this is just insulting people, even if it's true. You never see elite managers do this.

Also the reporter is clueless. Was Nelsen surprised by this? If so, why and how? He left a fantastic, important job, an EPL team in midseason, for this job. If not, why talk about it, he's just running people down who are looking for jobs elsewhere.

The Silva thing obviously still stings, that's pretty interesting, he doesn't want to be tainted by that. Quelle surprise given how bad a trade that is. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Nelsen wouldn't play Silva much, on a team that was hopeless.

All to prove how tough his life is, and how great he is.

I too am puzzled by why he would even entertain making a comment on this.

Names and numbers on jersey's aside, the fundamental challenge that plagued 2013 team is the same fundamental challenge that will plague the 2014 team. IMO, a very poor infrastructure that cannot ID players via scouting. An Academy system with no short term help on the horizon and limited further development opportunities for those 18 year olds that aren't ready to make the jump.

As such, this (2014) team's success may depend as much on the health of a few highly paid band aids (Gilberto, DeFoe.. if he signs... DeRo... if he signs) as the 2013 team did (Koevermans, Frings, etc).

And many of the players on the 2013 team will have starting minutes on the 2014 team if they can't ID better ones (Hall, Morgan, Henry, etc). Wonder how they feel about these comments?

[ag futbol]

It's hard to judge based on an article as opposed to an interview. You never know how things were asked as subsequently compiled after. As a reporter you could interpret it any number of different ways.

Personally, I'm okay with him acknowledging the poor shape of the squad, but he should lay off the criticism of prior managers. He hasn't accomplished anything as of yet.

Would also have liked to have seen more details on the plan going forward without just talking DPs. The only other thing I am seeing is talk of a few MLS vets coming on, not very inspiring IMO. But you never know, maybe he mentioned this stuff and it simply wasn't printed.

[Haddy]

It's hard to judge based on an article as opposed to an interview. You never know how things were asked as subsequently compiled after. As a reporter you could interpret it any number of different ways.

Personally, I'm okay with him acknowledging the poor shape of the squad, but he should lay off the criticism of prior managers. He hasn't accomplished anything as of yet.

Would also have liked to have seen more details on the plan going forward without just talking DPs. The only other thing I am seeing is talk of a few MLS vets coming on, not very inspiring IMO. But you never know, maybe he mentioned this stuff and it simply wasn't printed.

This article was written by Neil Davidson on December 5. It was more than two weeks old when this thread started. Could explain why much of the squad building was left out - it hadn't started yet.

[ag futbol]

This article was written by Neil Davidson on December 5. It was more than two weeks old when this thread started. Could explain why much of the squad building was left out - it hadn't started yet.
Still... What's changed? Vets and DPs. That doesn't really answer the questions I'd have about where this plan is going.

On another note, there is an article on tsn that quotes a NZ interview Nelsen conducted in which he said they won't give him much more time to get it right. So if anybody had doubts, he's firmly on the hot seat.

[jazzy]

Can't disagree. Same basic skill set as Osorio but half the speed of thought.


half the speed of thought........that is a well described phrase

[Shakes McQueen]

And many of the players on the 2013 team will have starting minutes on the 2014 team if they can't ID better ones (Hall, Morgan, Henry, etc). Wonder how they feel about these comments?

Haven't read the article yet, but the original post by jabbronies indicates that he was talking about the state of the roster "prior to the 2013 MLS season"

- Scott

[Pookie]

Haven't read the article yet, but the original post by jabbronies indicates that he was talking about the state of the roster "prior to the 2013 MLS season"

- Scott

Think we are talking about the same thing. I was interpreting it as the team that started the 2013 season (or end of 2012). Hall, Morgan, Henry etc were all a part of that.

[Shakes McQueen]

Think we are talking about the same thing. I was interpreting it as the team that started the 2013 season (or end of 2012). Hall, Morgan, Henry etc were all a part of that.

Possibly, but then it's also worth saying that the roster being a mess doesn't necessarily have to mean every single player on it was garbage. I interpreted it as him saying that he came in to a mess, and tried to clean it up for the 2013 season.

I actually agree that his comments were kind of over the top - though fans tend to like this kind of candor, I'm sure the players probably don't (and it's them he has to worry about). Then again, perhaps some of TFC's better players ALSO agree that roster was a total shambles. Nothing more frustrating than being a pretty good player, on a terrible team.

At the end of the day, this is all just noise to me. Get us into the playoffs. I don't care about whatever verbal catnip you want to dangle out there for the fans.

- Scott

[AdamAM]

Why is this so bad? The team was in shambles.... he didn't call out one specific player, the team as a whole was a shit show. There were a couple of bright spots, and for the most part those bright spots are still with us. Why is it so bad that he's saying this, so far he's been far better than other regimes in terms of getting us players...sure not amazing, but a lot better than Mariner, Mo, or Preki.

[ManUtd4ever]

I interpreted his comments as a slight on the previous management regime, not necessarily the skillset of individual players. I believe he was referring primarily to the lack of forethought that went into assembling the unbalanced, overpriced roster that he inherited.

[tfcocd]

I too am puzzled by why he would even entertain making a comment on this.

Names and numbers on jersey's aside, the fundamental challenge that plagued 2013 team is the same fundamental challenge that will plague the 2014 team. IMO, a very poor infrastructure that cannot ID players via scouting. An Academy system with no short term help on the horizon and limited further development opportunities for those 18 year olds that aren't ready to make the jump.

As such, this (2014) team's success may depend as much on the health of a few highly paid band aids (Gilberto, DeFoe.. if he signs... DeRo... if he signs) as the 2013 team did (Koevermans, Frings, etc).

And many of the players on the 2013 team will have starting minutes on the 2014 team if they can't ID better ones (Hall, Morgan, Henry, etc). Wonder how they feel about these comments?

I would not think hall, Morgan, Henry would feel slighted by this. They survived a year where 27 players were turned over and they are players that got minutes. Any player not at top of pay scale should expect to face competition for minutes after an off season.

As for the scouting I guess the jury is still out. There were some positive acquisitions and many that were turned over. Not sure the expected success rate but with only a handful of spots to fill if they get 50% right the team should be close to fielding a quality starting 11 ( on paper at least :wink5: ).

Some starter acquisitions from last year: Laba, Caldwell,bendiq
some depth/starter acquisitions: Rey, dike, bloom, osorio

if this could be repeated and the dp's perform well in year 2 of the rebuild they will have a chance of hitting double digit wins, maybe even a club record win total LOL! Modest target but after 6 wins not sure aiming higher is realistic.

[Auzzy]

I agree that the squad was a mess a year ago. However I think these guys always have to be aware of TFC's history, and how their comments will echo with fans that have stuck around, and with the media (many of whom have also been around for a while, or at least know some of the history). We've heard a couple of times "oh the roster was a mess, we're really turning it around." Let's see who they actually sign in the end, how well they get old & new to mesh, and how they do on the field.

[Pookie]

No matter how you slice it, it is the same plan they have had since 2007.

Payne was fired because he wanted to take a long term approach. Tim L wants to turn it around and turn it around now. Admirable.

He's dusted off the band-aid plan and hitching his hopes to the health of a 30+ Defoe and a 35+ (1 year contract) DeRo.... assuming both sign.

It's no different than spending money on Frings and Koevermans or Mista. And when the DP signing is tied to season ticket renewal it reeks of the motivation to get Julian de Guzman, he who was sought because of the flag of his country of birth.

This league turns on the strength of a team's US Domestic talent. It's a US developmental league after all. RSL vs Sporting KC in the finals. Beckham came to the league in 2007, since that time LA had as many cup appearances as Houston (3). The finals have been dotted with teams like Colorado, Columbus, Houston, Dallas, Sporting KC, RSL and New England. None have any superstars of note... and reasonable ticket prices too. Go figure.

Arguably, LA had a strong US domestic core that could offset its superstars and that contributed to their success. We do not.

We have drawn players from a notoriously weak development system... unfortunately Canada or more correctly the GTA... and expected them to jump in play against those that have come from the vast talent pool that feeds the World Cup bound USA.

They have done nothing to replace draft picks that previous regimes have spent on band-aids like Hassli and Convey. TFC drafts once in the 1st round (15th overall) and then not again till the later round. Two picks. That's it.

I don't begrudge anyone a sense of optimism but I get a strong sense of deja vu when I look at the moves done this offseason.

[Phil]

wow, I had to stop at Payne being fired for wanting to take a long term approach. Payne got fired for other issues, that is pretty clear.

[Pookie]

wow, I had to stop at Payne being fired for wanting to take a long term approach. Payne got fired for other issues, that is pretty clear.

Allegations aside, do you think that Payne and Tim L shared the same vision for how long building a club would take? Both have offered very different public statements. One suggesting youth and infrastructure and the other suggesting that this is the easiest property to turn around promising playoffs.

[Phil]

Your point stands on that merit, I guess I had to object for the record. Payne was divisive in so many ways, but he did do a great job of clearing the deck.

[tiberius]

...I don't begrudge anyone a sense of optimism but I get a strong sense of deja vu when I look at the moves done this offseason.

It does seem its the same old, same old - like 2011... I am not sure what you are looking for exactly? We hope for a couple of talents to come in, perform and stay off the injured list, a good training camp where some gelling can occur, anything but an 0-9 start... I agree developing great scouting network would help - I just don't see too many other rabbits to pull out your hat with this capped league...




<p.s. please note that this post has been sanitized of all rhetorical devices, as well as the height of the poster:D>