Finallly ..... Love him or hate him I am glad he is gone Paul B resigns

[inheavensince07]

Sooo back in love with TFC now

The cleanse is complete

[Fort York Redcoat]

This was not the only factor for your discontent with the club and it shouldn't be with this years change in his club duties. This is akin to the misrepresentation of Tom Anselmi's or Earl Cochrane's influence near the end of their time with the organization.


Here's a question for the people celebrating the end of the clean sweep witch hunt:

How long does the organization get before the present upper mgmt is demonized as a generalized horde?

[inheavensince07]

This was not the only factor for your discontent with the club and it shouldn't be with this years change in his club duties. This is akin to the misrepresentation of Tom Anselmi's or Earl Cachrane's influence near the end of their time with the organization.


Here's a question for the people celebrating the end of the clean sweep witch hunt:

How long does the organization get before the present upper mgmt is demonized as a generalized horde?


I think you have some misconceptions ..my opinion .. But this gentlemen was one of the huge reasons why the off field product suffered so much .. If you think otherwise you are dead wrong .. again my opinion .. Trust me he never thought supporters were as important as they are and should be .. he saw the team as a endless money pit after season 1 and 2 and maybe 3 4 .. @fort york I often wonder about your allegiance to this team .. in a mysterious way lol

[flatpicker]

He certainly came across as a real "pal" to the supporters in the beginning. Shame the romance fell apart. I won't comment much on the quality of his time with TFC since I'm no insider, but he was part of the failed machine and change had to come.

[OgtheDim]

Did he ever "get" supporter culture? I doubt it. Not sure TL does either but I'm pretty darn sure TL would not countenance the tweet Bierne sent out after the debacle against Montreal.

Time to move on.

[Brooker]

Paul Beirne ‏@Paulbeirne (https://twitter.com/Paulbeirne)1h (https://twitter.com/Paulbeirne/status/393342085161811969)
This Saturday's TFC match will be my last with the club. Thank you for 7 seasons of awesome moments! So proud to have been a part of it!

Wait... what? We're talking about Toronto FC, correct?

[brad]

This was not the only factor for your discontent with the club and it shouldn't be with this years change in his club duties. This is akin to the misrepresentation of Tom Anselmi's or Earl Cochrane's influence near the end of their time with the organization.


Here's a question for the people celebrating the end of the clean sweep witch hunt:

How long does the organization get before the present upper mgmt is demonized as a generalized horde?

Best case scenario - 5 to 10 games into the next season (if we don't look like a top team out of the gate), or more likely, before a ball is kicked next season (probably sometime during pre-season) (not my viewpoint btw, but probably what will happen)

[Detroit_TFC]

Not totally a surprise, Timmy L's show now.

[mastermixer]

Best case scenario - 5 to 10 games into the next season (if we don't look like a top team out of the gate), or more likely, before a ball is kicked next season (probably sometime during pre-season) (not my viewpoint btw, but probably what will happen)

I think this is justified. Nelsen/Lieweke have put this on themselves with their promise that we will be lining up to pay for our seasons tickets in January.

If this team had a history of winning, then a few years of rebuilding would be easier to handle. But 7 years of being the worst team in MLS (or the world) is long enough.

[David_Oliveira]

I think it's bitter sweat. We all knew it had to happen but PB did help all the supporters. He was one of the guys to help get more rpbs and usectorites into 112 & 113. He didn't have to help us with that. To say he didn't care or understand us is a bit off IMHO

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think you have some misconceptions ..my opinion .. But this gentlemen was one of the huge reasons why the off field product suffered so much .. If you think otherwise you are dead wrong .. again my opinion .. Trust me he never thought supporters were as important as they are and should be .. he saw the team as a endless money pit after season 1 and 2 and maybe 3 4 .. @fort york I often wonder about your allegiance to this team .. in a mysterious way lol

You haven't said much with this post.

What misconceptions? I have spoken with the man the last 2 seasons and his role obviously changed over the years with the struggles on the field and boardroom. My question you left unanswered was not to excuse his shortcomings with the initial setup and early years of off-field ops with and without supporters interaction but to challenge with the concept that there was too much stock put into the witch hunt for clean sweep of the organization. I wasn't satisfied with the results before this announcement but I'm not going to celebrate " a new regime" with this position changed. The change effected will be secondary to the changes already enacted.

Also, quick tip: Saying other people are dead wrong if they think otherwise and wondering aloud about people's allegiances this early in the game is premature.

Much respect.

[tfcleeds]

Not too surprising I guess. Like most of the others of the previous regime, was born on third base, and thought he hit a triple. They were gifted a fanbase they couldn't have envisioned in their wildest dreams in 2006, and then proceeded to destroy any goodwill they might have had with the supporters. Anyways, onwards and (hopefully) upwards. I hope he lands on his feet somewhere - I'm sure he will.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Sooo back in love with TFC now

The cleanse is complete

Also, heaven, you need to meet @Alonso. Alonso, perhaps the return of your 3 stooges av should have a swan song today?g:D

[inheavensince07]

Also, heaven, you need to meet @Alonso. Alonso, perhaps the return of your 3 stooges av should have a swan song today?g:D

Not sure I follow but sounds good..

[Areathrasher]

"Paul you were very instrumental in creating incredible fans. Thank you"

Richard Peddie on twitter. Oh boy...

[Initial B]

My only concern now is who is going to replace him? Knowing TFC's luck, it will be someone worse...

[inheavensince07]

"Paul you were very instrumental in creating incredible fans. Thank you"

Richard Peddie on twitter. Oh boy...

ohh its a love in on twitter for Paul .. amazing that you can destroy a fan base and still be applauded for a job well done.. That is the corporate way tho.. Great job there Paul on the Penske file .. we lost over 50 % of revenue and passion but keep up the great work.. hahahahha

[MartinUtd]

Very glad he's gone. Not that I think this will have a major impact on how I perceive the organization. I just think the guy was a total clown who came on here to reap praise in the early years and when he stop getting his proverbial dick sucked, he disappeared.

And Fort York, are you really arguing what someone's opinion is? The question of how long will it take for discontent to come back is irrelevant to the statement "I'm glad Paul B is gone, his PR tenure was a total fuck up."

[inheavensince07]

Very glad he's gone. Not that I think this will have a major impact on how I perceive the organization. I just think the guy was a total clown who came on here to reap praise in the early years and when he stop getting his proverbial dick sucked, he disappeared.

And Fort York, are you really arguing what someone's opinion is? The question of how long will it take for discontent to come back is irrelevant to the statement "I'm glad Paul B is gone, his PR tenure was a total fuck up."


AAAAAAA fucking Men

[Couchy81]

Bye.

[Joe Kool]

Well I never had much personal interaction with Paul B to say anything negative. One year we had problems with my wife's wheelchair and didn't get to the last game on time and my kids were upset that they ran out of TFC toques. Paul sent some for my kids by Purolator when he found out since we were discussing the TFC toques on this board in one of the threads. I appreciated that.

[TFC_Allez]

It was bound to happen sooner or later I guess. I highly doubt he would've been fired outright. He was probably given the opportunity to resign before being fired more so as a gesture of goodwill. The guy was part of a team of upper management that oversaw 7 years of futility. If this were any other team or company, he would've been gone years ago. I don't know much about inner workings of how he helped or didn't help supporters groups and others, but his track record in regards to helping put together a successful franchise both on and off the field was poor at best. What remains to be seen is who will take his place...and that's what I'm more afraid of.

[ManUtd4ever]

Good riddance. He milked this market for everything it was worth, and now he's abandoning the sinking ship because the golden goose is cooked.

[cmonyoureds]

This was not the only factor for your discontent with the club and it shouldn't be with this years change in his club duties. This is akin to the misrepresentation of Tom Anselmi's or Earl Cochrane's influence near the end of their time with the organization.


Here's a question for the people celebrating the end of the clean sweep witch hunt:

How long does the organization get before the present upper mgmt is demonized as a generalized horde?

Strike one - the Forlan/DP debacle
Strike two - teasing a January line up for ticket renewals in the MIDDLE OF THE F*N SEASON, in my opinion like saying "you wasted your money this year"

Down to the last strike, better hit a homer in January Mr. Lieweke

[BuSaPuNk]

Didn't always see eye to eye with him but hope this isn't a step backwards in terms of supporters communication with the club.

[Fort York Redcoat]

And Fort York, are you really arguing what someone's opinion is? The question of how long will it take for discontent to come back is irrelevant to the statement "I'm glad Paul B is gone, his PR tenure was a total fuck up."

Asking for clarification and commenting on the clean sweep concept. Irrelevant? Obviously not unrelated by the number of responses.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Good riddance. He milked this market for everything it was worth, and now he's abandoning the sinking ship because the golden goose is cooked.

Abandoning. Right. I guess if you need to fit the metaphor...

[Fort York Redcoat]

It was bound to happen sooner or later I guess. I highly doubt he would've been fired outright. He was probably given the opportunity to resign before being fired more so as a gesture of goodwill. The guy was part of a team of upper management that oversaw 7 years of futility. If this were any other team or company, he would've been gone years ago. I don't know much about inner workings of how he helped or didn't help supporters groups and others, but his track record in regards to helping put together a successful franchise both on and off the field was poor at best. What remains to be seen is who will take his place...and that's what I'm more afraid of.

Agreed.

[Phil]

We didn't always see eye to eye with Paul on everything, but the guy always gave us a seat at the table and a avenue to voice ourselves.

A little respect should be shown to the guy.

[TFC07]

So who's next to leave in TFC FO?

[MartinUtd]

Asking for clarification and commenting on the clean sweep concept. Irrelevant? Obviously not unrelated by the number of responses.

You're equating "I'm glad he's gone" with a witch hunt. Now, I don't live in the GTA, but I also havne't heard anything about pitch forks and torches down at BMO so maybe you need to check your hyperbole and take that into consideration when you don't get the response you're looking for.

[ensco]

I had a bad experience with Paul 3 years ago, but I suspect this was a product of the toxic work environment. Surviving in a place like this requires people to do some not-so-nice things.

He always seemed like a good guy deep down. I hope he has better luck with his bosses in his next gig.

[Fort York Redcoat]

You're equating "I'm glad he's gone" with a witch hunt. Now, I don't live in the GTA, but I also havne't heard anything about pitch forks and torches down at BMO so maybe you need to check your hyperbole and take that into consideration when you don't get the response you're looking for.

You're looking at " I'm glad he's gone."

I was discussing the "Clean sweep".


Hope that helps.

[jloome]

We didn't always see eye to eye with Paul on everything, but the guy always gave us a seat at the table and a avenue to voice ourselves.

A little respect should be shown to the guy.

Given that he stuck with and essentially endorsed all of this crapitude, little is the righ word. It's easy to confuse someone who is generally nice and earnest with someone you should respect, because they're hard to dislike. But this guy was one of those handed a golden goose and decided to cook it.

The argument of 'I was only following orders" doesn't ever trump the moral postion; if he thought he was the one guy able to change that culture, well I guess that's admirable (although naive from personal experience) but it doesn't change the fact that he failed. It's not uncommon behavior, really. Lots of people stay at employers they don't like in a field they love because ... well, I guess they love the job and think they can make the place better.

But seven years of failure doesn't command much respect.

[TOBOR !]

I feel nothing.

Carry on TFC.

[MartinUtd]

You told somebody their opinion was wrong, stopped at that, then posed another question.

Actually forgot it. I should be working right now.

[tfcleeds]

I didn't have much interaction with PB other than the town halls a couple years back - I wonder if my opinion of him would have been different if he hadn't uttered that flippant "supply and demand" comment (of course, some of his tweets this season didn't win him any points either) - it pissed me off then, and still does now. At the end of the day, he was part of the regime which oversaw 7 years of utter failure, and that is why this day had to come eventually. I have nothing against him personally however, and wish him the best in his new endeavours.

[Tony Santiago]

There's one man who I really wish this team would bring back. He's a link the link to the past, to the good times, to unity.

That man is Ponytail.

[Red Skies At Night]

While I'm all for sweeping out the old, as I think the whole lot should have been let go... let's not lay blame where it's not due. Paul B had nothing whatsoever to do with the on-field product. he neither scouted, signed, nor coached the players that let us down so consistently on the field.

Now laying the blame at his feet for sky-high concession prices, and for turning the game-day experience into one long infomercial, may be justified. And disliking him for some of his comments/tweets may be well placed, but the 7 years of futility on the field were not his doing. There's a long enough list of people to be blamed for that specific failing.

[Red Skies At Night]

There's one man who I really wish this team would bring back. He's a link the link to the past, to the good times, to unity.

That man is Ponytail.

Andrea Lombardo?

[TOBOR !]

I think he means that security guard guy

[Canary10]

Andrea Lombardo?

Ha ha. That's exactly what I was going to say.

[CommradePolski]

I was at a small gathering for KW United, their launch party, and Osorio was there as well as Bierne. Osorio came out and talked to us, and took a picture. Great kid but only hung around for a few minutes.

Bierne came out later and sat down with us and chatted. One of the first things he asked us was who has seasons tickets. At that point I was the last one there that had them so I put up my lone hand and said "Since day 1"
Bierne immediately said I owe you a drink and as the conversation went on he was almost embarrassed/afraid to look me in the eye because of, most likely, the disappointment he knew I felt with the team.

Nice guy overall though. Said some good things at this sit down. He didnt divulge much but this was also when they were bigging up all the "signings" that Payne had in store. Still was cool to chat with him a bit.

[Shakes McQueen]

Never really cared about Paul B one way or another. He's an off-field PR guy, handed a pretty impossible job due to the epic failure of the onfield product. He was always polite to me, and even gave us some scoops here in earlier seasons, before he stopped coming around (I assume when things got so negative that he knew inserting himself in the conversation was a lose-lose proposition).

I wish him the best, but otherwise this just gets an indifferent shrug from me. I've never really been a fervent advocate of completing the "clean sweep" card collection, regardless of what peoples' roles in the organization were (and hence, their culpability for our mess).

- Scott

[ag futbol]

But this guy was one of those handed a golden goose and decided to cook it.

I'd say someone else served up the turd, but Paul B. was still responsible for covering it with sprinkles and telling everyone it was ice cream.

Long term thinking was not their strong point. Mentality was plunge the customer for every dollar you could as soon as possible, say anything / promise anything to keep people coming back.

I would suspect it was the type of thing that was directed (ie necessary to meet profit projections) rather than he had a choice in doing. But, people who are smart that are stuck in those situation leave instead of sticking around to do hatchet work. So I don't feel particularly bad for him, it was his choice to do what he did. A fair number of people in the front office jumped ship after that first run, they probably knew where this was going long before we understood the extent of the problems.

[MartinUtd]

I would suspect it was the type of thing that was directed (ie necessary to meet profit projections) rather than he had a choice in doing.

Considering they were expecting 12-15k per game and all we heard about was the massive success story (not to mention praise lavished upon the FO), I highly doubt their aggressive marketing tactics were a result of falling short of projections.

[inheavensince07]

I had a bad experience with Paul 3 years ago, but I suspect this was a product of the toxic work environment. Surviving in a place like this requires people to do some not-so-nice things.

He always seemed like a good guy deep down. I hope he has better luck with his bosses in his next gig.


Um he is not .. arrogant and full of himself .. Phil with all do respect I have heard him discount and minimize supporters with my own ears .. Don't let the door hit you PB .. I hope he was given chance to resign lol .. looks good on him .. should have been fired if I had my choice

[Shakes McQueen]

Um he is not .. arrogant and full of himself .. Phil with all do respect I have heard him discount and minimize supporters with my own ears .. Don't let the door hit you PB .. I hope he was given chance to resign lol .. looks good on him .. should have been fired if I had my choice

What precisely did you hear him say?

- Scott

[inheavensince07]

What precisely did you hear him say?

- Scott

I precisely heard him say to me directly "that supporters and supporters groups are only less then 10% of our fans and they will not dictate how we market and work with this team going forward .. This was after year 1 .. This of course is my word against his .. But I can promise you on the health and well being of my children that he said it matter of factly and with blatant disregard for what supporters did for the team in year 1 .. It was a massive miscalculation that took more then a few years to materialize into a big bed shit .. But it was his arrogance that will stick with me for all time .. He will be fine for sure with work , he is fairly smart with his bullshit so other like minded idiots will eat his crap up ,, so don't worry about his livelihood .. Just be happy the twitter happy D bag is gone..

[Phil]

Um he is not .. arrogant and full of himself .. Phil with all do respect I have heard him discount and minimize supporters with my own ears .. Don't let the door hit you PB .. I hope he was given chance to resign lol .. looks good on him .. should have been fired if I had my choice

Fair enough, everyone has their opinions and experiences to draw upon. I don't doubt that through out the course of his tenure he made mistakes or comments that were less than flattering. Lets face it, the relationship was severly strained at times. Many a time I was either directly representing the group in those cirmcumstances or flat out planning actions that lead to a ton of stress on him.


That being said he offered all the groups a lot of help in forming and sustaining themselves. Orignal 109, NEE formation of a supporters section in 127, seat relocation for SG groups. I also know that he worked hard in other aspects to find solutions to minimize what would have become massive issues. It all was far from smooth sailing and we had some pretty big disconects on a number of issues but it seems there are a lot of different opinions.

I think Duane nailed it this morning:

I have a feeling that "be careful what you wish for" is a phrase Paul Beirne's critics are gong to understand soon enough.

[inheavensince07]

Fair enough, everyone has their opinions and experiences to draw upon. I don't doubt that through out the course of his tenure he made mistakes or comments that were less than flattering. Lets face it, the relationship was severly strained at times. Many a time I was either directly representing the group in those cirmcumstances or flat out planning actions that lead to a ton of stress on him.


That being said he offered all the groups a lot of help in forming and sustaining themselves. Orignal 109, NEE formation of a supporters section in 127, seat relocation for SG groups. I also know that he worked hard in other aspects to find solutions to minimize what would have become massive issues. It all was far from smooth sailing and we had some pretty big disconects on a number of issues but it seems there are a lot of different opinions.

I think Duane nailed it this morning:

I have a feeling that "be careful what you wish for" is a phrase Paul Beirne's critics are gong to understand soon enough.


Thanks Phil , I can appreciate all of your comments above .. You are a great president and I mean that sincerely .. Agreed be careful what you wish for .. But imo how could it be worse then what was there .. I actually think that is an impossibility given what has gone on here in 7 plus years .. It was a mad house year 1 I can still remmeber the chaos after last game etc .. it was all destroyed slowly and methodically after that .. by incompetence and greed

[Shakes McQueen]

I precisely heard him say to me directly "that supporters and supporters groups are only less then 10% of our fans and they will not dictate how we market and work with this team going forward .. This was after year 1 .. This of course is my word against his .. But I can promise you on the health and well being of my children that he said it matter of factly and with blatant disregard for what supporters did for the team in year 1 .. It was a massive miscalculation that took more then a few years to materialize into a big bed shit .. But it was his arrogance that will stick with me for all time .. He will be fine for sure with work , he is fairly smart with his bullshit so other like minded idiots will eat his crap up ,, so don't worry about his livelihood .. Just be happy the twitter happy D bag is gone..

So you've concluded he's arrogant and full of himself, based on what was a relatively mild single comment, made several years ago? Or is there more?

And why would Paul B be saying something like this to you directly? What did you say to him?

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Fair enough, everyone has their opinions and experiences to draw upon. I don't doubt that through out the course of his tenure he made mistakes or comments that were less than flattering. Lets face it, the relationship was severly strained at times. Many a time I was either directly representing the group in those cirmcumstances or flat out planning actions that lead to a ton of stress on him.


That being said he offered all the groups a lot of help in forming and sustaining themselves. Orignal 109, NEE formation of a supporters section in 127, seat relocation for SG groups. I also know that he worked hard in other aspects to find solutions to minimize what would have become massive issues. It all was far from smooth sailing and we had some pretty big disconects on a number of issues but it seems there are a lot of different opinions.

I think Duane nailed it this morning:

I have a feeling that "be careful what you wish for" is a phrase Paul Beirne's critics are gong to understand soon enough.

I can recall more than one cringe-worthy thing he's said over the years, but frankly, when you interacted as closely with the fans/supporters as he did for a while, you're bound to put your foot in it a few times. Especially when he was trying to face down some of the rage that got lobbed his way (even completely justified rage).

- Scott

[Jeff s]

About time.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

[inheavensince07]

So you've concluded he's arrogant and full of himself, based on what was a relatively mild single comment, made several years ago? Or is there more?

And why would Paul B be saying something like this to you directly? What did you say to him?

- Scott

I can live with the fact you may not believe me .. But I am just passing on my feelings .. He has down much more but that is more personal .. He is not like a maple leafs zamboni driver or anything .. But his arrogance has directly F'd me over

[inheavensince07]

Onward and upward enough about this numb nuts .. I will let it all go .. but I couldnt until he left :):):)

[Red4ever]

I'm going to say Shakes speaks for me as well. Short of the man (P.B.) killing your pets, these posts are odd.

[Shakes McQueen]

I can live with the fact you may not believe me .. But I am just passing on my feelings .. He has down much more but that is more personal .. He is not like a maple leafs zamboni driver or anything .. But his arrogance has directly F'd me over

I didn't say I don't believe you - I wanted to better understand the context in which he apparently said it. I have no skin in the Paul Beirne game, as I said. He was ultimately a public relations guy, and one for whom I didn't pay much attention, outside of the early days when he actually came on this board often and personally engaged with us.

The last several years, he's been mostly behind the scenes, with the bulk of his interactions being Twitter replies, and has had no real influence on the on-field product. So I just don't care.

It's unfortunate that you had a bad experience with him.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

Considering they were expecting 12-15k per game and all we heard about was the massive success story (not to mention praise lavished upon the FO), I highly doubt their aggressive marketing tactics were a result of falling short of projections.
Initially this was probably true, but things change quickly.

[Tony Santiago]

I think he means that security guard guy

That's right, a little joke for the oldtimers.

[Tony Santiago]

I precisely heard him say to me directly "that supporters and supporters groups are only less then 10% of our fans and they will not dictate how we market and work with this team going forward .. This was after year 1 .. This of course is my word against his .. But I can promise you on the health and well being of my children that he said it matter of factly and with blatant disregard for what supporters did for the team in year 1 .. It was a massive miscalculation that took more then a few years to materialize into a big bed shit .. But it was his arrogance that will stick with me for all time .. He will be fine for sure with work , he is fairly smart with his bullshit so other like minded idiots will eat his crap up ,, so don't worry about his livelihood .. Just be happy the twitter happy D bag is gone..

Is he wrong with that statement? I'm not sure what is ignorant about it. I personally think some supporters overestimate what they did or do for the team. Enthusiasm was there day 1. It didn't materialize because people saw supporters having fun. The supporter clubs were caught off guard by how strong enthusiasm was. In all honesty the 10% or so of TFC fans he referred to paid the least amount for their tickets but demanded more than anyone else from him.

That isn't a popular sentiment, but that's how I see it. Obviously I can be dismissed do to lack of posts, but I think Paul B was quite accommodating to me as a fan. He responded to me when I contacted the team about an issue and tried to help me out. I can't blame the pricing situation on him. The team was horrible, but I'm not sure he had much to do with personnel.

[inheavensince07]

Is he wrong with that statement? I'm not sure what is ignorant about it. I personally think some supporters overestimate what they did or do for the team. Enthusiasm was there day 1. It didn't materialize because people saw supporters having fun. The supporter clubs were caught off guard by how strong enthusiasm was. In all honesty the 10% or so of TFC fans he referred to paid the least amount for their tickets but demanded more than anyone else from him.

That isn't a popular sentiment, but that's how I see it. Obviously I can be dismissed do to lack of posts, but I think Paul B was quite accommodating to me as a fan. He responded to me when I contacted the team about an issue and tried to help me out. I can't blame the pricing situation on him. The team was horrible, but I'm not sure he had much to do with personnel.

Respect Tony .. I am over it .. just glad he's gone .. p.s tho if supporters went away as we know it , what would really be left?

[ManUtd4ever]

Is he wrong with that statement? I'm not sure what is ignorant about it. I personally think some supporters overestimate what they did or do for the team. Enthusiasm was there day 1. It didn't materialize because people saw supporters having fun. The supporter clubs were caught off guard by how strong enthusiasm was. In all honesty the 10% or so of TFC fans he referred to paid the least amount for their tickets but demanded more than anyone else from him.

That isn't a popular sentiment, but that's how I see it. Obviously I can be dismissed do to lack of posts, but I think Paul B was quite accommodating to me as a fan. He responded to me when I contacted the team about an issue and tried to help me out. I can't blame the pricing situation on him. The team was horrible, but I'm not sure he had much to do with personnel.

I don't think Bierne can be blamed at all for the abysmal on field product, but I do believe that he deserves to be scrutinized (at least to some extent) for the blatant price gouging that took place at the box office and at the concession stands for several years.

Furthermore, the atmosphere that was cultivated at BMO Field which enabled such greed was the direct result of the enthusiasm and initiatives of supporters groups. Paul Bierne and the rest of the inaugural management group had absolutely nothing to do with the surprising demand for tickets in the early years, but he has his Executive of the Year award to add to his resume nonetheless, courtesy of the same supporter groups that wouldn't dictate how MLSE would market the team moving forward.

I say this as a season ticket holder since day one who is unaffiliated with any supporter groups.

[ensco]

I would love to hear Beirne's side of the story someday.

[Alonso]

Not sure I follow but sounds good..


Also, heaven, you need to meet @Alonso. Alonso, perhaps the return of your 3 stooges av should have a swan song today?g:D


Unfortunately York, that custom avatar is long gone...

But for the sake of the occasion and future posterity I made this master piece to the left
<<<<<





Edit: Gimp is not equal to Photoshop. That. And I suck at it.

[Parkdale]

My concern, is that the last links that tied the positive actions of the first couple of seasons is now thin to the point of being non-existent.

There's been a lot of mistakes made since those early days, but I'm just not comfortable with the fact that very, very few people working for our team were even there at 23:14. Sure there's still a few office types who've been around for ages, and there's Kit Man Malcolm..... but when the only people involved who still have a connection to the good times are the people in the stands, it worries me. Who's still there in the club to install a respect for the badge? I know the club's done very little to maintain that respect, but there was a time when it meant something. Our connection to the past is fading, and good memories of the past is really all this club has going for it.

Having said that, let's cheer our faces off on Saturday and try to make some new memories work keeping.

[FluSH]

We didn't always see eye to eye with Paul on everything, but the guy always gave us a seat at the table and a avenue to voice ourselves.

A little respect should be shown to the guy.

/co-signed

[Haddy]

My concern, is that the last links that tied the positive actions of the first couple of seasons is now thin to the point of being non-existent.

There's been a lot of mistakes made since those early days, but I'm just not comfortable with the fact that very, very few people working for our team were even there at 23:14. Sure there's still a few office types who've been around for ages, and there's Kit Man Malcolm..... but when the only people involved who still have a connection to the good times are the people in the stands, it worries me. Who's still there in the club to install a respect for the badge? I know the club's done very little to maintain that respect, but there was a time when it meant something. Our connection to the past is fading, and good memories of the past is really all this club has going for it.

Having said that, let's cheer our faces off on Saturday and try to make some new memories work keeping.

Ditto. We can't forget the past, but it's time to move on. No more grieving what could have been.

Badge is still there, hope is still there, we are still there.

(insert chant here)

[Still Kicking]

I had to weigh in. I am not a member of RPB (but my affection for the forum has tempted me to join...), I am a SSH since day 1 and I am a blogger - Mistake by the Lake has been my hobby, my platform and my burden for all these years.
Whatever your particular identification, our passion for the beautiful game now has a club focus. We are Toronto FC fans. We have been witness to an incredible parade of people. Part of the fun of following a club is to devote your energy and passion into dividing that parade of people into heroes and villains. Boo Mista! The signing of JDG, Ali Gerba, etc etc etc should never have happened. We gave up on Cronin, Wynne, Dunivant, Casey etc - what were they thinking? These debates keep us lively, we love to be angry because we know that one day we will love to have our moment in the sun.
I used twitter yesterday to thank Paul Beirne for being a part of TFC since the beginning. I understand that some may not feel comfortable with the sentiment and the gesture, but I say look at the bigger picture.
Paul Beirne is a part of our history. I wish it was a more glorious history, but it remains our history. TFC exists. Some of us pay and some of us are paid. That is the fact of pro sports. Until the day I die, I will be able to click on youtube (whether on my computer or in my head) and Paul Beirne will be there. When Danny Dichio scored his goal in the final minutes of season 1 against New England, I was yards away in section 120. The tv coverage had a shot of MoJo and Paul Beirne jubilant on the sidelines. Our history, our parade, our moments. Whether he was the Mista of front office execs or not, he deserves a salute and a smile as he leaves behind his role. He is always welcome to sit beside me and enjoy a game as a fan, just as those RPB's who feel he is a villain in our story are welcome too (just not at the same time- unless both sides are buying me a beverage). Tomorrow I get a toque. I watch a game. I shake hands with friends and say goodbye til 2014. I will probably wish somebody a Merry Christmas, because the holidays are part of the off season. The parade continues...

[tfcleeds]

There's been a lot of mistakes made since those early days, but I'm just not comfortable with the fact that very, very few people working for our team were even there at 23:14. Sure there's still a few office types who've been around for ages, and there's Kit Man Malcolm..... but when the only people involved who still have a connection to the good times are the people in the stands, it worries me. Who's still there in the club to install a respect for the badge? I know the club's done very little to maintain that respect, but there was a time when it meant something. Our connection to the past is fading, and good memories of the past is really all this club has going for it.Sure, there were good memories from the first couple of years, but it was the players and the supporters that created those. I guess I just don't see cutting the tethers with the past in terms of the FO as being such a bad thing. Just think of all the great moments we potentially missed out on the last 7 years because of the clowns in charge. It can't really get any worse, can it? (I may regret those words, haha). I have a lot of misgivings about TL, and I have little to no faith that Nelsen can get the job done. I fear we may be in for some lean times yet, at least initially. But there's hope, and there's only one way to go from here - up.

[Canary10]

I had to weigh in. I am not a member of RPB (but my affection for the forum has tempted me to join...), I am a SSH since day 1 and I am a blogger - Mistake by the Lake has been my hobby, my platform and my burden for all these years.
Whatever your particular identification, our passion for the beautiful game now has a club focus. We are Toronto FC fans. We have been witness to an incredible parade of people. Part of the fun of following a club is to devote your energy and passion into dividing that parade of people into heroes and villains. Boo Mista! The signing of JDG, Ali Gerba, etc etc etc should never have happened. We gave up on Cronin, Wynne, Dunivant, Casey etc - what were they thinking? These debates keep us lively, we love to be angry because we know that one day we will love to have our moment in the sun.
I used twitter yesterday to thank Paul Beirne for being a part of TFC since the beginning. I understand that some may not feel comfortable with the sentiment and the gesture, but I say look at the bigger picture.
Paul Beirne is a part of our history. I wish it was a more glorious history, but it remains our history. TFC exists. Some of us pay and some of us are paid. That is the fact of pro sports. Until the day I die, I will be able to click on youtube (whether on my computer or in my head) and Paul Beirne will be there. When Danny Dichio scored his goal in the final minutes of season 1 against New England, I was yards away in section 120. The tv coverage had a shot of MoJo and Paul Beirne jubilant on the sidelines. Our history, our parade, our moments. Whether he was the Mista of front office execs or not, he deserves a salute and a smile as he leaves behind his role. He is always welcome to sit beside me and enjoy a game as a fan, just as those RPB's who feel he is a villain in our story are welcome too (just not at the same time- unless both sides are buying me a beverage). Tomorrow I get a toque. I watch a game. I shake hands with friends and say goodbye til 2014. I will probably wish somebody a Merry Christmas, because the holidays are part of the off season. The parade continues...

Great post.

[GabrielHurl]

Sure there's still a few office types who've been around for ages, and there's Kit Man Malcolm.

for now - he's not sure if he'll be around much longer

[Tony Santiago]

I don't think Bierne can be blamed at all for the abysmal on field product, but I do believe that he deserves to be scrutinized (at least to some extent) for the blatant price gouging that took place at the box office and at the concession stands for several years.

Furthermore, the atmosphere that was cultivated at BMO Field which enabled such greed was the direct result of the enthusiasm and initiatives of supporters groups. Paul Bierne and the rest of the inaugural management group had absolutely nothing to do with the surprising demand for tickets in the early years, but he has his Executive of the Year award to add to his resume nonetheless, courtesy of the same supporter groups that wouldn't dictate how MLSE would market the team moving forward.

I say this as a season ticket holder since day one who is unaffiliated with any supporter groups.

Explain to me how the atmosphere was a direct result of supporters groups. Paul Beirne may not have had anything to do with the demand for tickets, but certainly you can't be saying the supporter groups did. The season ticket supply was sold out before game 1. If anything, David Beckham is largely to thank for the atmosphere at BMO. After hes signed with the Galaxy demand for tickets went crazy.

The supporters clubs tried their best to tap into the enthusiasm that was at BMO, not the other way around. I was there, I remember. It's not a bad thing or anything, it's just the way it was. Everyone was caught off guard by the vibe at BMO, it wasn't created by anyone. The club routinely featured the South East corner in advertising because it was the loudest and most lively corner, with lots of banners and signs. I assume people with banners and signs want attention, and they got it.

I'm not saying the supporter groups didn't do great at keeping the vibe going, or trying to add to it with capos and things, but the enthusiasm initially was over having a pro soccer team. The enthusiasm has waned over the years because our results have been awful. When our team starts doing better life will return to BMO. The supporters don't have much to do with how much enthusiasm and interest people have in the team. Results do.

[Tony Santiago]

Respect Tony .. I am over it .. just glad he's gone .. p.s tho if supporters went away as we know it , what would really be left?

Whoever is there to watch the game is what would be left. To me that's what it's all about anyway. If all fans were just there to respond to the flow of play I would have no complaints.

[inheavensince07]

Explain to me how the atmosphere was a direct result of supporters groups. Paul Beirne may not have had anything to do with the demand for tickets, but certainly you can't be saying the supporter groups did. The season ticket supply was sold out before game 1. If anything, David Beckham is largely to thank for the atmosphere at BMO. After hes signed with the Galaxy demand for tickets went crazy.

The supporters clubs tried their best to tap into the enthusiasm that was at BMO, not the other way around. I was there, I remember. It's not a bad thing or anything, it's just the way it was. Everyone was caught off guard by the vibe at BMO, it wasn't created by anyone. The club routinely featured the South East corner in advertising because it was the loudest and most lively corner, with lots of banners and signs. I assume people with banners and signs want attention, and they got it.

I'm not saying the supporter groups didn't do great at keeping the vibe going, or trying to add to it with capos and things, but the enthusiasm initially was over having a pro soccer team. The enthusiasm has waned over the years because our results have been awful. When our team starts doing better life will return to BMO. The supporters don't have much to do with how much enthusiasm and interest people have in the team. Results do.


r u kidding me ? what if there was no supporters groups ? there is no atmosphere. I agree with you that the demand was there but it was the Sg's in the demand that created that euphoria /.. I was there too and was not a supporter in any way except showing up .. SG's best thing ever happened at bmo period .
I know I am crazy but holy shit Tony ..

[tfcleeds]

Explain to me how the atmosphere was a direct result of supporters groups. Paul Beirne may not have had anything to do with the demand for tickets, but certainly you can't be saying the supporter groups did. The season ticket supply was sold out before game 1. If anything, David Beckham is largely to thank for the atmosphere at BMO. After hes signed with the Galaxy demand for tickets went crazy.The supporters clubs tried their best to tap into the enthusiasm that was at BMO, not the other way around. I was there, I remember. It's not a bad thing or anything, it's just the way it was. Everyone was caught off guard by the vibe at BMO, it wasn't created by anyone. The club routinely featured the South East corner in advertising because it was the loudest and most lively corner, with lots of banners and signs. I assume people with banners and signs want attention, and they got it.I'm not saying the supporter groups didn't do great at keeping the vibe going, or trying to add to it with capos and things, but the enthusiasm initially was over having a pro soccer team. The enthusiasm has waned over the years because our results have been awful. When our team starts doing better life will return to BMO. The supporters don't have much to do with how much enthusiasm and interest people have in the team. Results do.While I agree that Beckham-mania was responsible for the # of seasons tickets sold in year 1 more than anything else, that still only accounted for what, 14K of the seats in BMO? Yes, there was a definite buzz around BMO those first couple of seasons, and people were happy to have a pro team back in Toronto. But what about the casual fans? I think the supporters groups had more to do with the atmosphere around BMO than you are giving them credit for. It was that enthusiasm they generated (that spread to other parts of the stadium) that drew in casual fans, people who wouldn't have frequented BMO on a regular basis, and especially against opponents not named the LA Galaxy, but who filled out the rest of the stadium? People in Toronto had never seen anything like it in recent memory, especially when they were used to the dead atmosphere at Rogers Centre and the ACC. No, the SGs weren't totally responsible for it, but they sure were a big part of it.

[Canary10]

I always hear people say they came to a TFC game because they heard about the craziness in the south stands. I've even seen some people watching the SGs more than the match. Going to a TFC game has (or had) a reputation for being a totally different sports experience than the other main sports. Don't think that's all because of the SGs but no one should discount how much impact the SGs have had.

[ManUtd4ever]

r u kidding me ? what if there was no supporters groups ? there is no atmosphere. I agree with you that the demand was there but it was the Sg's in the demand that created that euphoria /.. I was there too and was not a supporter in any way except showing up .. SG's best thing ever happened at bmo period .
I know I am crazy but holy shit Tony ..


While I agree that Beckham-mania was responsible for the # of seasons tickets sold in year 1 more than anything else, that still only accounted for what, 14K of the seats in BMO? Yes, there was a definite buzz around BMO those first couple of seasons, and people were happy to have a pro team back in Toronto. But what about the casual fans? I think the supporters groups had more to do with the atmosphere around BMO than you are giving them credit for. It was that enthusiasm they generated (that spread to other parts of the stadium) that drew in casual fans, people who wouldn't have frequented BMO on a regular basis, and especially against opponents not named the LA Galaxy, but who filled out the rest of the stadium? People in Toronto had never seen anything like it in recent memory, especially when they were used to the dead atmosphere at Rogers Centre and the ACC. No, the SGs weren't totally responsible for it, but they sure were a big part of it.

This. And furthermore, TFC supporter groups also set the bar for the rest of the supporter groups around the league as MLS expanded into other markets over the last several years. Many MLS executives have acknowledged it. Perhaps one day we'll get that atmosphere back.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Explain to me how the atmosphere was a direct result of supporters groups.

The supporters clubs tried their best to tap into the enthusiasm that was at BMO, not the other way around. I was there, I remember. It's not a bad thing or anything, it's just the way it was. Everyone was caught off guard by the vibe at BMO, it wasn't created by anyone. The club routinely featured the South East corner in advertising because it was the loudest and most lively corner, with lots of banners and signs. I assume people with banners and signs want attention, and they got it.

I'm not saying the supporter groups didn't do great at keeping the vibe going, or trying to add to it with capos and things, but the enthusiasm initially was over having a pro soccer team. The enthusiasm has waned over the years because our results have been awful. When our team starts doing better life will return to BMO. The supporters don't have much to do with how much enthusiasm and interest people have in the team. Results do.


So you're saying that SG's rely on BMO, the team, for atmosphere? That makes it sound as if it isn't a separate entity. There are those that believe that that's how it should be- The team only hears from the SG's when they are "doing well". To an extent it's related but to infer that the SG's don't CREATE atmosphere is incredibly uninformed.

If you want to downplay it considering the levels we've sunk to with the teams results, the effect can't be denied but there are people who give their all to keep a piece, an ember of that atmosphere going. To disregard them is just ignorant and will be responded to in kind.

[TFC07]

Paul B may be friends with supporter groups, but he sure wasn't a friend towards rest of us. Paul B is part of reason why ticket prices increased which killed fanbase.

Paul B is responsible for off-field side of things (like SSH, Marketing etc.). Can you say TFC have been doing a great job off-field and respecting their fanbase? If not, then who do you blame? lol

Paul B had to go! I can't believe it took this long to get rid of him.

[cmonyoureds]

Explain to me how the atmosphere was a direct result of supporters groups. Paul Beirne may not have had anything to do with the demand for tickets, but certainly you can't be saying the supporter groups did. The season ticket supply was sold out before game 1. If anything, David Beckham is largely to thank for the atmosphere at BMO. After hes signed with the Galaxy demand for tickets went crazy.

The supporters clubs tried their best to tap into the enthusiasm that was at BMO, not the other way around. I was there, I remember. It's not a bad thing or anything, it's just the way it was. Everyone was caught off guard by the vibe at BMO, it wasn't created by anyone. The club routinely featured the South East corner in advertising because it was the loudest and most lively corner, with lots of banners and signs. I assume people with banners and signs want attention, and they got it.

I'm not saying the supporter groups didn't do great at keeping the vibe going, or trying to add to it with capos and things, but the enthusiasm initially was over having a pro soccer team. The enthusiasm has waned over the years because our results have been awful. When our team starts doing better life will return to BMO. The supporters don't have much to do with how much enthusiasm and interest people have in the team. Results do.

WHOAH!
Hang on there. I mean no disrespect but -

I sat around midfield year 1. There is no way on god's green earth that supporters were tapping into the atmosphere coming out of there.
Many, many of those people would watch the south end as much as the actual game.
I'm sorry but this comment just isn't true.

"supporters clubs tried their best to tap into the enthusiasm that was at BMO"

If it was true then this comment makes no sense:

"The club routinely featured the South East corner in advertising because it was the loudest and most lively corner,"

And this is a comment that gets debated at length:

The enthusiasm has waned over the years because our results have been awful. When our team starts doing better life will return to BMO.

Lastly this one, allegedly the season ticket base is still sold out but strangely Beckham is gone and so are the crowds. The only ones left? The supporter clubs having the party. The rest is a library.

"The season ticket supply was sold out before game 1. If anything, David Beckham is largely to thank for the atmosphere at BMO."

Again, I mean no disrespect to your comment, but to say the supporter groups "kept the vibe going" as opposed to "supplying it outright" is a position difficult to justify.


EDIT: to stay on topic - Paul your supply of employment outstripped the demand for it. Happy trails.

[inheavensince07]

Whoever is there to watch the game is what would be left. To me that's what it's all about anyway. If all fans were just there to respond to the flow of play I would have no complaints.

My belief is Tony is full of shit .. He is yanking our chain and it worked on me ..

so squeeze a bit tony when you yank ..

[Fort York Redcoat]

Whoever is there to watch the game is what would be left. To me that's what it's all about anyway. If all fans were just there to respond to the flow of play I would have no complaints.

Your passion is underwhelming me.

[inheavensince07]

Your passion is underwhelming me.



Tony is kind of right .. Europe and SA a etc those leagues have no off field atmosphere either .. People just sit and watch round thing get kicked around ..
right Ton dawg ??

[Tony Santiago]

Tony is kind of right .. Europe and SA a etc those leagues have no off field atmosphere either .. People just sit and watch round thing get kicked around ..
right Ton dawg ??

Yeah, that's right, just take it as far as you can. Hyperbole has never been lacking on these boards.

[inheavensince07]

Yeah, that's right, just take it as far as you can. Hyperbole has never been lacking on these boards.


Sorry Mr serious .. I just totally disagree with your take and I think I am in the majority ..

[Jack]

There's one man who I really wish this team would bring back. He's a link the link to the past, to the good times, to unity.

That man is Ponytail.

I second this!

[Jack]

Anyway, Paul did some things right, he did some things wrong. I do believe he was sincere in his efforts to make things work with supporters in the early days and I appreciated that, even though it didn't always work out. I remember him going to bat for us with a sponsor over the 111 banner in the first year and other little things like that. I'm not one to pile on someone so I'll keep any negative stories off the boards. He's gone and it's time to move forward, rather than rail against the past.

[Tony Santiago]

I'm not sure what atmosphere the supporters are supposedly keeping going, but on a weekly basis the loudest reactions always come from the play. A good pass, a missed call, whatever. People go to watch the games and the loudest chanting is a byproduct of how we're playing on the field. I like what the supporters do and all, but people are not relying on you.

There are too many points to address, I'm not even sure what the debate is about. The South East Corner has always been the loudest, but as has been pointed out, people at midfield never went to games to sing anyway. The corner support has dwindled just like the rest of the stadium has.

Why are you guys denying that the overall enthusiasm at BMO was off the charts for most of the first season? You did a good job and everything, but the enthusiasm was in no means due to supporters clubs. It's like revisionist history or something. Everyone used to be into it in their own way. It wasn't because of supporters, it was because people were genuinely excited to have the MLS in Toronto. The supporters clubs grew after that.

It's hard to have logical discussions on supporter sites. I think some of you all look at the world through red patch coloured glasses.

Have a good night.

[colman1860]

Tony made a completely valid point, which was sticking up for Paul B, who was being attacked for an entirely correct statement. But hey, lets all shit down his throat, because we definitely have to direct our anger somewhere, right?

On Paul B - he did his job well. Just look at how many people continue to spend money on this product. Was always approachable online (I never met him in person), and I appreciated that.

[Tony Santiago]

Tony made a completely valid point, which was sticking up for Paul B, who was being attacked for an entirely correct statement. But hey, lets all shit down his throat, because we definitely have to direct our anger somewhere, right?

On Paul B - he did his job well. Just look at how many people continue to spend money on this product. Was always approachable online (I never met him in person), and I appreciated that.


Thanks, but I guess I did get sidetracked too. I think the supporters do a good job most of the time. I sometimes don't like the idea that to some a supporter means more to the club than other SSH. That's all. Paul B has been pretty accommodating, for the most part, to everyone. I don't think he should be too heavily criticized for the job he did.

Let's be real. In year 7 with all this losing people can't be blamed for not getting too riled up about songs of victory and triumph when it never happens. There's something to be said for an honest assessment. Personally I could never be critical of a fan who seems invested in the action. I've sat at midfield before, and although it was quiet the focus is most definitely on the game. Anyone who attends BMO deserves a pat on the back at this point.

Okay, enough said. Now, have a good night.

[SoccMan2]

Look have nothing against Paul B but even though he had no real impact on the field he was still a major face in this organization, an organization that has seen 7 years of futility, I think he is just part of the carnage in the house cleaning that is taking place right now, one of the major reason he is going, the next on the list is and should be Jim Brennan. The only one from the old regime I can see staying is Danny Dichio I still think, I don't know why, that he will make a great coach one day.

[Ivy]

Jimmy B is the most successful coach we've ever had.

[tiberius]

Anyway, Paul did some things right, he did some things wrong... I'm not one to pile on someone so I'll keep any negative stories off the boards. He's gone ...

On the one hand I want to take Jack's high road, but I can't... I can't be mamsy pamsy about A, B, or C

/ranton

Good riddance to Paul B.

He was a partner who took damn advantage of the WHOLE support base with the year after year ticket increases - this severely damaged our product and our fan/supporter base.

We witnessed the relentless double price friendlies with useless teams - thanks partner Paul.

We got absolutely hosed for the Real Madrid game while others got Barcelona for free... he defended that - thanks a lot Pauli!

Let's not get started on his attitude toward supporters and the whole waiting list b.s., if you don't want your ticket, someone else will take it....

One of the great traditions was holding our red scarf up high for the national anthem. What did this asshole do? Gave us effing White scarves in year five. what an absolute, total, clueless moron. Way da go Paul with destroying tradition.

What an ass - don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. This is four years too late. Syanara mofos - all of you!

ABC - Anselmi, Beirne, Cochrane - those sons of a bitches are all gone - Tim did the village - thank you! Thank God!

None of us know if things get any better from here, but at least there is a little justice in this world - what goes around, comes around.

/rantoff

Let us move on! .... whew - thanks, I feel better now....

[Abou Sky]

I think it's bitter sweat. We all knew it had to happen but PB did help all the supporters. He was one of the guys to help get more rpbs and usectorites into 112 & 113. He didn't have to help us with that. To say he didn't care or understand us is a bit off IMHO

What he said

If it wasn't for Paul B, there would be no sent relocation for RPB and Usector

[tiberius]

What he said

If it wasn't for Paul B, there would be no sent relocation for RPB and Usector

Really? There is no one else in the whole wide world that could have done it better, or earlier, or more elegantly? Sure, feel sorry for the guy, if you must - he probably made more money than many of us will make in 20-30 years.

He was an integral part of the small cabal that fucked this whole franchise and the Season Ticket Holders and the Supporters most of all - from day one, until today.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph - has everyone got amnesia around here??? This is not the guy's funeral - he already has a new job.... Where does that leave us? I dunno about you, but Tim L. and I are pissed off....

(not really pickin on you Sky, there just seems to be a lot of sympathy the last few pages for a guy who did us in, just as surely as Anselmi, Cochrane and the short pants guy did... Oh - perhaps Mo had a hand in there somewhere...)

[inheavensince07]

On the one hand I want to take Jack's high road, but I can't... I can't be mamsy pamsy about A, B, or C

/ranton

Good riddance to Paul B.

He was a partner who took damn advantage of the WHOLE support base with the year after year ticket increases - this severely damaged our product and our fan/supporter base.

We witnessed the relentless double price friendlies with useless teams - thanks partner Paul.

We got absolutely hosed for the Real Madrid game while others got Barcelona for free... he defended that - thanks a lot Pauli!

Let's not get started on his attitude toward supporters and the whole waiting list b.s., if you don't want your ticket, someone else will take it....

One of the great traditions was holding our red scarf up high for the national anthem. What did this asshole do? Gave us effing White scarves in year five. what an absolute, total, clueless moron. Way da go Paul with destroying tradition.

What an ass - don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. This is four years too late. Syanara mofos - all of you!

ABC - Anselmi, Beirne, Cochrane - those sons of a bitches are all gone - Tim did the village - thank you! Thank God!

None of us know if things get any better from here, but at least there is a little justice in this world - what goes around, comes around.

/rantoff

Let us move on! .... whew - thanks, I feel better now....

hahaha now we are talking .. finally i feel better now too .. onward TFC .. abc hahahaha

[tiberius]

... Here's a question for the people celebrating the end of the clean sweep witch hunt:

How long does the organization get before the present upper mgmt is demonized as a generalized horde?

This was no witch hunt. This was getting rid of a whole bunch of folk who ran a incredibly popular franchise right into the effing ground. They purposefully and knowingly strangled the golden goose. If you actually want to suggest to this board that these guys don't deserve what they got after SEVEN YEARS of what they have delivered, and we have had to receive, bring it on! I am pretty sure I can just stand back, and let others carry the torch on that one. There are hundreds if not thousands of former posters on this site who would take you to task, if only they still gave a rat's ass about this organization anymore. No witch hunt here boyo... just karma

[inheavensince07]

This was no witch hunt. This was getting rid of a whole bunch of folk who ran a incredibly popular franchise right into the effing ground. They purposefully and knowingly strangled the golden goose. If you actually want to suggest to this board that these guys don't deserve what they got after SEVEN YEARS of what they have delivered, and we have had to receive, bring it on! I am pretty sure I can just stand back, and let others carry the torch on that one. There are hundreds if not thousands of former posters on this site who would take you to task, if only they still gave a rat's ass about this organization anymore. No witch hunt here boyo... just karma


Thanks tiberius for some incredible insight into what was at TFC ..abc kankers is right .. Having PB resign and move on really is a day to celebrate .. Ola mother fucker Ola .

Things will change here now I know it

[Jack]

On the one hand I want to take Jack's high road, but I can't... I can't be mamsy pamsy about A, B, or C

/ranton

Good riddance to Paul B.

He was a partner who took damn advantage of the WHOLE support base with the year after year ticket increases - this severely damaged our product and our fan/supporter base.

We witnessed the relentless double price friendlies with useless teams - thanks partner Paul.

We got absolutely hosed for the Real Madrid game while others got Barcelona for free... he defended that - thanks a lot Pauli!

Let's not get started on his attitude toward supporters and the whole waiting list b.s., if you don't want your ticket, someone else will take it....

One of the great traditions was holding our red scarf up high for the national anthem. What did this asshole do? Gave us effing White scarves in year five. what an absolute, total, clueless moron. Way da go Paul with destroying tradition.

What an ass - don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. This is four years too late. Syanara mofos - all of you!

ABC - Anselmi, Beirne, Cochrane - those sons of a bitches are all gone - Tim did the village - thank you! Thank God!

None of us know if things get any better from here, but at least there is a little justice in this world - what goes around, comes around.

/rantoff

Let us move on! .... whew - thanks, I feel better now....

g:D

good rant.

[inheavensince07]

Happy Beirne Day everybody lol Oct 24th in TFC land will always be Happy B day

[FluSH]

One of the great traditions was holding our red scarf up high for the national anthem. What did this asshole do? Gave us effing White scarves in year five. what an absolute, total, clueless moron. Way da go Paul with destroying tradition.



LMAO!!

Your post just made the classic list for 2013 lol

[TFC07]

Look have nothing against Paul B but even though he had no real impact on the field he was still a major face in this organization, an organization that has seen 7 years of futility, I think he is just part of the carnage in the house cleaning that is taking place right now, one of the major reason he is going, the next on the list is and should be Jim Brennan. The only one from the old regime I can see staying is Danny Dichio I still think, I don't know why, that he will make a great coach one day.

I personally hope we get new coaching staff for our academies if we want better results. Danny Dichio and Jimmy B aren't qualified/experienced to develop players. These guys got jobs with academy because they were fan favourites not because of their resume which is a joke especially when you're investing millions and have bunch of rookies run it.

We still haven't cleaned house properly yet, but we have got rid of major players who messed up TFC since day 1. Now time to hire right people to run this organization and start winning.

[ag futbol]

^ you guys have a point but youth academies are usually a suitable place for former players to start. Reviews I've heard about Dichio's coaching have been quite positive. He's a patient guy and puts in the work to be a good academy coach. Unfortunately, I didn't hear the same things about Brennan but wouldn't pass judgement considering how little I actually know of what they do.

But I see your points. There are some very good trainers in the GTA the club should be using and the academy needs to be professionalized compared to the way it was operated in the past.

[Yohan]

well, in terms of badges, Dichio is going to be most certified coach in Canada. (on a coaching course with French FA right now)

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm not sure what atmosphere the supporters are supposedly keeping going, but on a weekly basis the loudest reactions always come from the play. A good pass, a missed call, whatever. People go to watch the games and the loudest chanting is a byproduct of how we're playing on the field. I like what the supporters do and all, but people are not relying on you.

There are too many points to address, I'm not even sure what the debate is about. The South East Corner has always been the loudest, but as has been pointed out, people at midfield never went to games to sing anyway. The corner support has dwindled just like the rest of the stadium has.

Why are you guys denying that the overall enthusiasm at BMO was off the charts for most of the first season? You did a good job and everything, but the enthusiasm was in no means due to supporters clubs. It's like revisionist history or something. Everyone used to be into it in their own way. It wasn't because of supporters, it was because people were genuinely excited to have the MLS in Toronto. The supporters clubs grew after that.

It's hard to have logical discussions on supporter sites. I think some of you all look at the world through red patch coloured glasses.

Have a good night.


It's not revisionist history. The on field product has been dreadful since the inception of the franchise, and one of the primary reasons that TFC still drew large crowds for several years (despite unjustified annual ticket price increases) is because of the atmosphere that supporter groups cultivated. The 'game day experience' became the staple of MLSE's marketing strategy because of the ineptitude of our front office and their inability to field a winning team.

The opinions that have been presented to refute your erroneous statements are actually quite logical.

[Cashcleaner]

For sure it can be argued that Paul B really helped out the Supporter Groups for the club's first few years, though allowing us to buy a large block of tickets in a preferred location was just a good business decision more than anything.

The biggest problem I ever had with Paul is the fact that he really thought he could control us. He had the belief that we could be gently pushed and prodded as he saw fit to promote the club and sell more tickets. And whenever we strayed "off-script", Paul made sure we knew it.

[DOMIN8R]

I haven't read this entire thread but my experience with Paul as mostly positive. I enjoyed his sense of humour, desire to improve the customer experience and putting the pieces in place that helped make seasons 1-3 a great experience for me. Good luck, Paul. A career MLSE man - I hope that you and your family end up somewhere, if you choose to move, where Muppets aren't in charge.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

Sure like the rest of them he did some good, and lots of bad. I just felt that he got lots of totally-undeserved slaps on the back early on for the off field success of the team. It was a little frustrating the way these front office people we're strutting around like they invented "football"

[CSO_BBTB]

For sure it can be argued that Paul B really helped out the Supporter Groups for the club's first few years, though allowing us to buy a large block of tickets in a preferred location was just a good business decision more than anything....

Looking back on it all, I think he did enough to humour the people who were making the most noise online, but MLSE in corporate terms had zero interest in having a strong supporters culture emerging in an Italian curva sort of way. How else to explain the way Tribal Rhythm Nation was set up to drown the chanting out making it very difficult to have the vibe that had been created in 112-114 spread spontaneously all the way across the south end? The new north stand could have been used to really get the stadium bouncing from that sort of standpoint and build a passionate following but instead all they were interested in was maximizing revenues in the short term long before the product on the field merited the ticket pricing they wanted to charge.

Paul Beirne's end of season departure suggests that the wait until January for renewals thing is related to the new Leiweke regime wanting to get their people in place first so they can have a complete reset of the organization. It was probably always Tom Anselmi that was pulling the strings on major decisions in other words and Paul B was very much part of Anselmi's team in corporate terms along with Earl Cochrane. If that's the case, did he go out of his way to help in small ways within the narrow confines of what he had genuine control over? I'd definitely give him a pass on that and hope he lands on his feet in career terms.

[OgtheDim]

Paul Beirne's end of season departure suggests that the wait until January for renewals thing is related to the new Leiweke regime wanting to get their people in place first so they can have a complete reset of the organization.....

This.

The idea that they are waiting for the DP announcements is a smoke screen. They want to have a team in place, with a plan, with an approach and be ready to go full bore as of whatever date they start the beating of the drums.

[ensco]

Looking back on it all, I think he did enough to humour the people who were making the most noise online, but MLSE in corporate terms had zero interest in having a strong supporters culture emerging in an Italian curva sort of way. How else to explain the way Tribal Rhythm Nation was set up to drown the chanting out making it very difficult to have the vibe that had been created in 112-114 spread spontaneously all the way across the south end? The new north stand could have been used to really get the stadium bouncing from that sort of standpoint and build a passionate following but instead all they were interested in was maximizing revenues in the short term long before the product on the field merited the ticket pricing they wanted to charge.

Paul Beirne's end of season departure suggests that the wait until January for renewals thing is related to the new Leiweke regime wanting to get their people in place first so they can have a complete reset of the organization. It was probably always Tom Anselmi that was pulling the strings on major decisions in other words and Paul B was very much part of Anselmi's team in corporate terms along with Earl Cochrane. If that's the case, did he go out of his way to help in small ways within the narrow confines of what he had genuine control over? I'd definitely give him a pass on that and hope he lands on his feet in career terms.

Beautifully summed up. This is one of those posts that should just end the thread.

[Tony Santiago]

Beautifully summed up. This is one of those posts that should just end the thread.

TRN were a support group too. Why wouldn't Paul Beirne have helped them, like he helped you? To say that they were there to drown out chanting is pretty crazy actually. If you really wanted influence choosing the corner was a terrible idea.

This idea that the North Stand should have been built for a select group of supporters is another head scratcher. Why would they do that when there is already a supporter section? Who would have decided who got in the North stand?

I really think people forget that in the early years 112 and 113 were often chanting different things. TRN may have done their own thing, but so were both RPB and U Sector. Like I say the impact of your group is overestimated....like yesterday I had friends in 223 who told me that the Montreal fans were far louder and it was comical to hear us chanting about not hearing them sing.

I just don't like the heaping praise on one's self, or being critical of Paul B for helping groups like TRN. That was his job. He was there to help all fans.

[OgtheDim]

You chant about not hearing them sing because...you can't hear them.

Its part of going to a football game. If you expect logic to supporting a football team, you'll be disappointed.

[inheavensince07]

TRN were a support group too. Why wouldn't Paul Beirne have helped them, like he helped you? To say that they were there to drown out chanting is pretty crazy actually. If you really wanted influence choosing the corner was a terrible idea.

This idea that the North Stand should have been built for a select group of supporters is another head scratcher. Why would they do that when there is already a supporter section? Who would have decided who got in the North stand?

I really think people forget that in the early years 112 and 113 were often chanting different things. TRN may have done their own thing, but so were both RPB and U Sector. Like I say the impact of your group is overestimated....like yesterday I had friends in 223 who told me that the Montreal fans were far louder and it was comical to hear us chanting about not hearing them sing.

I just don't like the heaping praise on one's self, or being critical of Paul B for helping groups like TRN. That was his job. He was there to help all fans.


Tony not even sure what we are debating .. I actually think TRN was awesome .. Not sure what type of issues there was with htem and team or with other SG.. anyways I was not an official supporter but I think all that vibe was the real deal and IMO a few at FO ruined it .. Please don't debate that with me ..
You have made very logical and valid points .. Lets agree that we both hope TFC wins someday ..

[Alonso]

Fuck the whole old front office regime.


They got what they deserved after 7 years of futility and even worse.... killing, to many's surprise, a sure thing: a thriving and prosperous MLS football club in Toronto.

[inheavensince07]

Fuck the whole old front office regime.


They got what they deserved after 7 years of futility and even worse.... killing, to many's surprise, a sure thing: a thriving and prosperous MLS football club in Toronto.



tku .. amen

[Red CB Toronto]

Fact is TL's restructuring of MLSE made Paul's position redundant. With TFC's business operations being moved into the centralised MLSE structure that oversea many facets of each of their properties it eliminated a lot of duplication that existed for the first seven years of our beloved team's life. While having a separate front office oversea ticket sales, marketing etc for the Reds gave us a personal touch when it came to dealing with the club, which Paul oversaw it meant that MLSE had duplication in terms of the jobs people were doing.

Paul was a great asset for the club as from my experience I have never seen a sports executive with such an open door policy when it came to interaction with their fans and supporters, which is something I will miss for sure.

[NolbertoS]

Haven't been here in awhile, so all the rotten wood has been burnt from TFC and now it's truly a reborn TFC now. Took too long for my liking. The next we need to purge an entire FO, we do it swift and fast like a guillotine and not dicking around saying "You stay, you go, you stay, you go, mentality" It's all stay or all go mentality next time.

[CSO_BBTB]

TRN were a support group too....

Really? If you could provide some concrete information on that I'd be interested to hear it. During the road trips in 2007 and 2008 you would run into RPB, U-Sector, the Northend Elite and the "Ultras" from 114 but TRN were nowhere to be seen. I think the only time they made an appearance at supporters functions was when they showed up at tournaments with a team full of ringers from OSL and/or CSL teams. There were rumours at the time that they were being paid by the FO to do their thing and there is certainly no way they could have gained access to the area above the main seating sections without very strong backing from the corporate suits.

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying about the role of the 111-114 vibe being massively over-stated on here, but I'd argue that one of the main reasons that things never really took off the way they could have (there were a few brief moments like during one of the early games when "all we are saying is give us a goal" was chanted in unison right around the stadium when things reached what you would get at a top game overseas) is that the Anselmi regime very much wanted to keep the supporters culture contained to a small portion of the stadium probably because they harboured very deep prejudices about it being linked to "hooliganism".

It's OK if a hockey player "drops the gloves" and proceeds to physically assault one of his opponents, that's the Canadian way and there is no need for any criminal action to be taken by the courts because more of the plebs wind up watching the beer commercials if you actively foster Neanderthal behaviour like that, but have a minor scuffle involving a few mildly intoxicated soccer fans and it's the end of civilization as we have known it and time for the CBC to wade into the story. It's too bad the I/O for TFC couldn't have been somebody like Frank Stronach with more of an understanding of the sport's culture rather than a bunch of hockey execs who were only really concerned about meeting their sales targets. Hopefully the Lewieke regime will undo the damage and successfully turn TFC into what it could and should have been. Another success story like Seattle.[/rant]

[Tony Santiago]

You chant about not hearing them sing because...you can't hear them.

Its part of going to a football game. If you expect logic to supporting a football team, you'll be disappointed.

Really, another lesson?

Most people could hear them sing though, and louder than us...so what's the point? I've never been a guy who says stuff because I like the sound of it. I say stuff because it has actual meaning.

[Tony Santiago]

Really? If you could provide some concrete information on that I'd be interested to hear it. During the road trips in 2007 and 2008 you would run into RPB, U-Sector, the Northend Elite and the "Ultras" from 114 but TRN were nowhere to be seen. I think the only time they made an appearance at supporters functions was when they showed up at tournaments with a team full of ringers from OSL and/or CSL teams. There were rumours at the time that they were being paid by the FO to do their thing and there is certainly no way they could have gained access to the area above the main seating sections without very strong backing from the corporate suits.

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying about the role of the 111-114 vibe being massively over-stated on here, but I'd argue that one of the main reasons that things never really took off the way they could have (there were a few brief moments like during one of the early games when "all we are saying is give us a goal" was chanted in unison right around the stadium when things reached what you would get at a top game overseas) is that the Anselmi regime very much wanted to keep the supporters culture contained to a small portion of the stadium probably because they harboured very deep prejudices about it being linked to "hooliganism".

It's OK if a hockey player "drops the gloves" and proceeds to physically assault one of his opponents, that's the Canadian way and there is no need for any criminal action to be taken by the courts because more of the plebs wind up watching the beer commercials if you actively foster Neanderthal behaviour like that, but have a minor scuffle involving a few mildly intoxicated soccer fans and it's the end of civilization as we have known it and time for the CBC to wade into the story. It's too bad the I/O for TFC couldn't have been somebody like Frank Stronach with more of an understanding of the sport's culture rather than a bunch of hockey execs who were only really concerned about meeting their sales targets. Hopefully the Lewieke regime will undo the damage and successfully turn TFC into what it could and should have been. Another success story like Seattle.[/rant]

I'm not sure what your last paragraph is about.

The TRN were a support group. The rest of your paragraph dealing with them is exactly what I'm talking about, lots of rumours and negativity about them. Why? Because they didn't consult with the RPB or U Sector. People are not obligated to go to a foreign country to support their teams.

As far as I can tell the only discouraging of supporter culture is the banning of smoke bombs. They expanded the supporter sections to 111 and 127.

[brad]

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying about the role of the 111-114 vibe being massively over-stated on here, but I'd argue that one of the main reasons that things never really took off the way they could have (there were a few brief moments like during one of the early games when "all we are saying is give us a goal" was chanted in unison right around the stadium when things reached what you would get at a top game overseas) is that the Anselmi regime very much wanted to keep the supporters culture contained to a small portion of the stadium probably because they harboured very deep prejudices about it being linked to "hooliganism".

Agree 100% with the quoted part. While I'm not sure whether the fear of hooliganism was part of the rationale (very well could be) what I heard from a few places was that Anselmi wanted to keep the supporter "side show" contained, and he wanted an ACC setup in the rest of the place. A nice, well behaved place were you can take a business client. That's where the money is - selling those seats to suits.

There was strong growth of support stadium wide with pockets of passionate supporters outside the South End, and they were growing rapidly. Year three, they willfully killed it all off. Can't overstate how much that added to the atmosphere in the stadium, and how much it affected things for the worse when it was killed.

[brad]

I'm not sure what your last paragraph is about.

The TRN were a support group. The rest of your paragraph dealing with them is exactly what I'm talking about, lots of rumours and negativity about them. Why? Because they didn't consult with the RPB or U Sector. People are not obligated to go to a foreign country to support their teams.

As far as I can tell the only discouraging of supporter culture is the banning of smoke bombs. They expanded the supporter sections to 111 and 127.

While I don't know/remember the in's and out's, there were a lot rumblings floating around in the early days TRN were a plant and/or on the payroll. The poster you are replying to would know more than most around here - he was one of the original folks that helped get the supporter culture going back at the beginning.

[inheavensince07]

While I don't know/remember the in's and out's, there were a lot rumblings floating around in the early days TRN were a plant and/or on the payroll. The poster you are replying to would know more than most around here - he was one of the original folks that helped get the supporter culture going back at the beginning.


There is no question in my mind some TRN guys were MLSE plants ..

[OgtheDim]

Really, another lesson?

Most people could hear them sing though, and louder than us...so what's the point? I've never been a guy who says stuff because I like the sound of it. I say stuff because it has actual meaning.

Not saying ur wrong, just saying we sang that because we couldn't hear them. Its not like we had a relay out to 223 saying, "Hey, can you hear them? Cause if you can, we won't sing this."

As stated, ur logic is not necessarily going to fit reality.

[spark]

There was strong growth of support stadium wide with pockets of passionate supporters outside the South End, and they were growing rapidly. Year three, they willfully killed it all off. Can't overstate how much that added to the atmosphere in the stadium, and how much it affected things for the worse when it was killed.

Yup in 2009 a little humility would have gone a long way. I called my rep and spoke to someone else who worked for BMO Field and they both said it was on PB to review this and he wouldn't be doing that until the end of the year with their 'post-mortem'. I've pieced together (as I'm sure others have too) that they really thought everything they did with the Leafs could just be templated with TFC and we'd just eat it up. Personally I'm glad this 'brain-trust' is now out of TFC and any nostalgia I feel for the team from the first seven seasons has everything to do with the people in-stadium, players on the field, and nothing to do with the trio that was the one constant through 6-7 years of failure.

[trane]

Paul Beirne ‏@Paulbeirne (https://twitter.com/Paulbeirne)1h (https://twitter.com/Paulbeirne/status/393342085161811969)
This Saturday's TFC match will be my last with the club. Thank you for 7 seasons of awesome moments! So proud to have been a part of it!

Wait... what? We're talking about Toronto FC, correct?

ahahahhahaha. That was my thought. FUCK YOU PAUL, thank you for 7 season of shiiiiiteeee. Yes there were very, very, very, very, few awesome moments, but those were far to few and far apart.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This was no witch hunt. This was getting rid of a whole bunch of folk who ran a incredibly popular franchise right into the effing ground. They purposefully and knowingly strangled the golden goose. If you actually want to suggest to this board that these guys don't deserve what they got after SEVEN YEARS of what they have delivered, and we have had to receive, bring it on! I am pretty sure I can just stand back, and let others carry the torch on that one. There are hundreds if not thousands of former posters on this site who would take you to task, if only they still gave a rat's ass about this organization anymore. No witch hunt here boyo... just karma

Karma has little to do with this thread. I asked you how long the present organization has. You recited years old cliche's. My point is that it's lazy analysis to say that for seven years we've had the same people in charge. Their jobs change with every unsuccessful season.

Take me to task on what? I've stated he's been unsuccessful, boyo. What I don't understand is how happy people are. He had so little to do with choking a golden goose this and last season.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Really, another lesson?

Most people could hear them sing though, and louder than us...so what's the point? I've never been a guy who says stuff because I like the sound of it. I say stuff because it has actual meaning.

"Us"? "Us" who? You weren't singing, were you?

And "What's the point"? I thought you didn't need another lesson?

[tiberius]

Karma has little to do with this thread. I asked you how long the present organization has. You recited years old cliche's. My point is that it's lazy analysis to say that for seven years we've had the same people in charge. Their jobs change with every unsuccessful season.


Take me to task on what? I've stated he's been unsuccessful, boyo. What I don't understand is how happy people are. He had so little to do with choking a golden goose this and last season.


?? I am really struggling with where you are going here, good friend.


Karma has everything to do with it. "The law of Karma teaches that responsibility for unskillful actions is born by the person who commits them." This is justice, this is fairness. Posters in this thread are holding P.B. accountable and expressing some satisfaction that he is being held responsible - THAT IS KARMA. To say that Anselmi, Cochrane and Bierne were in charge and should be held responsible is lazy analysis??? Lazy analysis my ass - in a single word I expressed what many were feeling - what goes around, comes around. If you ask me, "witch hunt" was the lazy analysis, but hey - you brought it up...

Who do you think is responsible for this debacle? The tooth fairy???? The TFC black cat? Mike Duffy? Managers on this team get less than a year to prove themselves, players even less time... You want to give P.B. a free pass after 7 pathetic years? Seriously? Let us hear your unlazy analysis of why we should shed some tears or feel guilty about being happy that there is some accountability at the top, even if it comes many years too late.


I agree 100% with you that in years 6 and 7 P.B. had little to do with killing the golden goose. You know why?? Because the god damn goose died in year five - they wrapped it in Bierne's effing white scarf and buried it next to Jimmy Hoffa. I suppose I should not really be surprised that some folk (like yourself) in year's 6 + 7 thought Mr. Goose was alive and well, given the occasional reported sightings... Trust me - Mr. G. Goose is long gone... The contract went out on Goose in 2009... He should never have gone to that parking lot alone, to meet with A,B + C, on that fateful day, back in 2011...


You ask how long we should give the present organization. You appear to be asking this, as if to suggest 7 years wasn't long enough for A,B + C??? You make accusations of a witch hunt after how many years of futility? Perhaps this is a bit disingenuous? Also, I am not quite sure what the fate of the next regime has to do with this thread?


My answer to your question is: a hell of a lot less than 7 years - how about 4 years for Timmie and his crew? Will you view it as a "witch hunt" if Tim gives us another 4 years of futility and people want his head? How long do you give TL?

[Greatest Ripoff]

Was Paul responsible for the Marlies packs?

[ensco]

All of MLS has a problem with, and fear of, supporter culture. It's unfair to personalize it to any one individual. There are so many stories about this all over the league.

The league wants a very pasturized version of support, anything more scares families and first time visitors, who have and will spend a hell of a lot more money than the $300 a year crowd in the south end.

None of this will change.

Beirne's biggest mistake was going on these boards and being a phoney - pretending to be friendly to RPB, when he really wasn't. It was manipulative and dumb. But it didn't matter that much.

We're overrating the importance of this position. The price level is a CEO/Board level call, that's where those mistakes were made.

The atmosphere in the stadium was killed by the losing, the unentertaining play, and most importantly the crappy stadium (ie exposure suffered by fans in bad weather). This last point has always been underrated around here, because we're grateful for an SSS, but we don't face the facts. Which are:
-most of the early sellouts were people trying out BMO as a novelty, and deciding not to return.
-most people, despite what you may read on this board, aren't that interested in getting rained on, freezing their asses or getting scorched, which is the experience at 75% of games at BMO.
-going to BMO is not fun (and hundreds or thousands of supporters in full throat don't change that, if the elements are bad and the team sucks).

This is the 5th biggest city in North America, a sophisticated market, and we have the worst stadium in the league. The primitive, exposed, no amenity, no roof, meccano set, high school football stadium is the single biggest issue for Leiweke to deal with in terms of getting people to want to come (and it's why we are going to get the Leafs and the Argos in BMO, he has to change the model to find the money to pay for this).

What Beirne or his successor did or do will always be way down the list.

This situation here is so putrid from a marketing POV that I wonder if Leiweke will rename the team.

[inheavensince07]

?? I am really struggling with where you are going here, good friend.


Karma has everything to do with it. "The law of Karma teaches that responsibility for unskillful actions is born by the person who commits them." This is justice, this is fairness. Posters in this thread are holding P.B. accountable and expressing some satisfaction that he is being held responsible - THAT IS KARMA. To say that Anselmi, Cochrane and Bierne were in charge and should be held responsible is lazy analysis??? Lazy analysis my ass - in a single word I expressed what many were feeling - what goes around, comes around. If you ask me, "witch hunt" was the lazy analysis, but hey - you brought it up...

Who do you think is responsible for this debacle? The tooth fairy???? The TFC black cat? Mike Duffy? Managers on this team get less than a year to prove themselves, players even less time... You want to give P.B. a free pass after 7 pathetic years? Seriously? Let us hear your unlazy analysis of why we should shed some tears or feel guilty about being happy that there is some accountability at the top, even if it comes many years too late.


I agree 100% with you that in years 6 and 7 P.B. had little to do with killing the golden goose. You know why?? Because the god damn goose died in year five - they wrapped it in Bierne's effing white scarf and buried it next to Jimmy Hoffa. I suppose I should not really be surprised that some folk (like yourself) in year's 6 + 7 thought Mr. Goose was alive and well, given the occasional reported sightings... Trust me - Mr. G. Goose is long gone... The contract went out on Goose in 2009... He should never have gone to that parking lot alone, to meet with A,B + C, on that fateful day, back in 2011...


You ask how long we should give the present organization. You appear to be asking this, as if to suggest 7 years wasn't long enough for A,B + C??? You make accusations of a witch hunt after how many years of futility? Perhaps this is a bit disingenuous? Also, I am not quite sure what the fate of the next regime has to do with this thread?


My answer to your question is: a hell of a lot less than 7 years - how about 4 years for Timmie and his crew? Will you view it as a "witch hunt" if Tim gives us another 4 years of futility and people want his head? How long do you give TL?


If there is a bulls eye with in the bulls eye Tiberius has hit it several times on his last few rants/posts .. This is in fact the KARMA at its finest ..
Seeing Paul B slink away gives me no greater satisfaction.. He should have been fired that would have been my first choice .. Having him leave after the rest of the ass clowns is finally a day where I can MAYBE begin to like this team again .. I have been around since before day 1 like many around here but I have loathed this team for many years now and PB was one of the main reasons..

Tiberius I would like to buy you many beers if I ever cross your path .. Your posts have brought me so much satisfaction I can't even explain.. You put into words what I feel about all the idiots that ran this circus ..
They all should have been in the Metro zoos motorcade of elephants down to Cali for ever.. Their job would be pooper scooper while bitchy the hawk flies over them watching ..

[tiberius]

...Beirne's biggest mistake was going on these boards and being a phoney - pretending to be friendly to RPB, when he really wasn't. It was manipulative and dumb. But it didn't matter that much.

We're overrating the importance of this position. The price level is a CEO/Board level call, that's where those mistakes were made.

The atmosphere in the stadium was killed by the losing, the unentertaining play, and most importantly the crappy stadium (ie exposure suffered by fans in bad weather). This last point has always been underrated around here, because we're grateful for an SSS, but we don't face the facts. Which are:
-most of the early sellouts were people trying out BMO as a novelty, and deciding not to return.
-most people, despite what you may read on this board, aren't that interested in getting rained on, freezing their asses or getting scorched, which is the experience at 75% of games at BMO.
-going to BMO is not fun (and hundreds or thousands of supporters in full throat don't change that, if the elements are bad and the team sucks).
...
What Beirne or his successor did or do will always be way down the list.

I agree with you Ensco. Paul Bierne is not the boogey man, he is not responsible for most of the woes that have beset this team. Those reasons are many, the story is long...

That being said, he sat at the table - or took orders directly from the top - depending upon your view of things or the issue at hand. At the very least he witnessed a lot, and followed orders. Being a bystander and following orders does not exempt one from responsibility. It did not appear to me like P.B. was strenuously objecting to what was going on in years 1-5. (How could I have forgotten the marlie packs and the Guzman bobblehead...sheesh!) If he really thought that the organization was making mistake after mistake against the fan base he is trying to market to, that his livelihood supposedly depends upon, he had an obligation to speak up and fight hard for what he believed in. It is really hard to know what really went on, but I never got the impression with P.B. that he had inner struggles in years 1-5. He seemed to be a company man. He also had the opportunity all along the way to step off the bus, if he didn't like where it was headed. He chose to take it to the end of the line... I don't feel guilty holding P.B. partially responsible, but at the same time, I wish him well in his next endeavors - he is hardly the "cause" of where we are today.

[tfcleeds]

Was Paul responsible for the Marlies packs?

I was thinking this myself - enough reason for him to be tarred and feathered. As director of business operations, he must have had some say into that decision.

[Beach_Red]

All of MLS has a problem with, and fear of, supporter culture. It's unfair to personalize it to any one individual. There are so many stories about this all over the league.

The league wants a very pasturized version of support, anything more scares families and first time visitors, who have and will spend a hell of a lot more money than the $300 a year crowd in the south end.

None of this will change.



Certainly MLS sees the two groups - supporters and the pasturized version (which may be a little harsh ;)) - as two separate markets and they want the bigger, bigger-spending market. But it seems with the construction of the 25,000 seat stadiums MLS has accepted, at least for the next generation, that they aren't going to be as big as the NFL, NBA and MLB so maybe they are more open now to supporter culture and see the other group as a longer-term goal.

After spending some time at BMO and on this board I started to feel that supporter culture isn't really interested in North Americans who didn't grow up with the game.

[ensco]

After spending some time at BMO and on this board I started to feel that supporter culture isn't really interested in North Americans who didn't grow up with the game.

This is a valid criticism.

If you look at what Seattle and Portland and KC really are ... I think they look nothing like the "real" supporter culture that most here want.

They are simply versions of ESPN College Gameday. Family friendly, sing the same song over and over, whether you know much about soccer or not, is not important ... face it, large numbers of people in this group actively hate all that.

[Fort York Redcoat]

?? I am really struggling with where you are going here, good friend.


Karma has everything to do with it. "The law of Karma teaches that responsibility for unskillful actions is born by the person who commits them." This is justice, this is fairness. Posters in this thread are holding P.B. accountable and expressing some satisfaction that he is being held responsible - THAT IS KARMA. To say that Anselmi, Cochrane and Bierne were in charge and should be held responsible is lazy analysis??? Lazy analysis my ass - in a single word I expressed what many were feeling - what goes around, comes around. If you ask me, "witch hunt" was the lazy analysis, but hey - you brought it up...

Who do you think is responsible for this debacle? The tooth fairy???? The TFC black cat? Mike Duffy? Managers on this team get less than a year to prove themselves, players even less time... You want to give P.B. a free pass after 7 pathetic years? Seriously? Let us hear your unlazy analysis of why we should shed some tears or feel guilty about being happy that there is some accountability at the top, even if it comes many years too late.


I agree 100% with you that in years 6 and 7 P.B. had little to do with killing the golden goose. You know why?? Because the god damn goose died in year five - they wrapped it in Bierne's effing white scarf and buried it next to Jimmy Hoffa. I suppose I should not really be surprised that some folk (like yourself) in year's 6 + 7 thought Mr. Goose was alive and well, given the occasional reported sightings... Trust me - Mr. G. Goose is long gone... The contract went out on Goose in 2009... He should never have gone to that parking lot alone, to meet with A,B + C, on that fateful day, back in 2011...


You ask how long we should give the present organization. You appear to be asking this, as if to suggest 7 years wasn't long enough for A,B + C??? You make accusations of a witch hunt after how many years of futility? Perhaps this is a bit disingenuous? Also, I am not quite sure what the fate of the next regime has to do with this thread?


My answer to your question is: a hell of a lot less than 7 years - how about 4 years for Timmie and his crew? Will you view it as a "witch hunt" if Tim gives us another 4 years of futility and people want his head? How long do you give TL?


I agree with you Ensco. Paul Bierne is not the boogey man, he is not responsible for most of the woes that have beset this team. Those reasons are many, the story is long...

I don't feel guilty holding P.B. partially responsible, but at the same time, I wish him well in his next endeavors - he is hardly the "cause" of where we are today.

Awesome. That last post sums it up for me, t. That's where I was coming from. My use of witch hunt, all of it explained with that last post of yours. I realize that any post resembling a defense of this move is what you're criticizing but it should be noted that we, that is, you and I agree on the point you just made above.

And thank you for answering my question. I respect the fact you nail down the lengths to which you'll be patient. I can't return the favour unfortunately because I've never done it before and am really adverse to doing it in the future. As you point out there are so many moving parts with different levels of responsibilities that all I can do is keep up with the next move and assess it singularly. It's why I'm not fond of the clean sweep mentality. But that said, now that it's done, I'll let those who need to celebrate it do so.


P.S.- Idea for a season 7 year end party- The Clean Sweep Party serving a cooked goose. g:D It would go well with a Christmas theme, I think. (Srsly, I've never had goose. It sounds delicious.)

[tfcleeds]

This is a valid criticism. If you look at what Seattle and Portland and KC really are ... I think they look nothing like the "real" supporter culture that most here want. They are simply versions of ESPN College Gameday. Family friendly, sing the same song over and over, whether you know much about soccer or not, is not important ... face it, large numbers of people in this group actively hate all that.Sure, but what they have is certainly better than nothing. I'll always maintain that the atmosphere at NCAA football games is simply the best sporting atmosphere in North America, and really is the only thing that even comes close to the hard-core European/S. American support at soccer matches. For all the talk we've had on here about doing things a bit differently, soccer support with a North American flavour if you will, I really don't have a problem with what places like Portland and KC are doing.

[CSO_BBTB]

Portland's Timber Army provides an idea of what the south end at BMO Field could and should have been if there had been no TRN derailing things and if the corporate suits had actually really got behind the idea of allowing the supporters culture to flourish and had worked with the supporters groups to spread things beyond the internet oriented clique at the bottom half of 112 and in portions of 111 and 113 to really get the stadium bouncing on a regular basis. Others saw what Toronto could have been and made it actually happen albeit in a somewhat watered down American sort of way.

[mastermixer]

Was Paul responsible for the Marlies packs?

Ha. I think this marked the end of the honeymoon phase of TFC.

[ensco]

Portland's Timber Army provides an idea of what the south end at BMO Field could and should have been if there had been no TRN derailing things and if the corporate suits had actually really got behind the idea of allowing the supporters culture to flourish and had worked with the supporters groups to spread things beyond the internet oriented clique at the bottom half of 112 and in portions of 111 and 113 to really get the stadium bouncing on a regular basis. Others saw what Toronto could have been and made it actually happen albeit in a somewhat watered down American sort of way.

I'd have been thrilled if we'd become the Timber Army. Not sure that's what people wanted. Of course it's an academic debate only since MLSE definitely was schizophrenic or worse about the whole south end thing. Frankly, I think it made them insane that they couldn't charge a lot more for the south end.

[Yohan]

This is the 5th biggest city in North America, a sophisticated market, and we have the worst stadium in the league. The primitive, exposed, no amenity, no roof, meccano set, high school football stadium is the single biggest issue for Leiweke to deal with in terms of getting people to want to come (and it's why we are going to get the Leafs and the Argos in BMO, he has to change the model to find the money to pay for this).

Have you ever been to Columbus Crew Stadium, Gillette, Buck Shaw, Toyota Park, etc? lol

[tfcleeds]

Have you ever been to Columbus Crew Stadium, Gillette, Buck Shaw, Toyota Park, etc? lolDespite the fact that the location sucks, I don't see much wrong with Toyota Park.

[Yohan]

Despite the fact that the location sucks, I don't see much wrong with Toyota Park.
I didn't make this clear. BMO Field is pretty much a replica of several stadiums in MLS. Toyota Park being one. I think Dick's Sporting Goods Park is another.

Never been to Buck Shaw, but that's a high school stadium (actually, inside an university).

[ensco]

I didn't make this clear. BMO Field is pretty much a replica of several stadiums in MLS. Toyota Park being one.

Yohan, you are one of the most knowledgeable people here .... but omg this is the biggest howler ever, bar none.

Toyota Park is a palace, all brick, roof covering most of the stands, huge concourses, tons of amenities/food choices, charming, lots of bathrooms. It is the polar opposite of BMO

Columbus isn't great but is better than BMO. Buck Shaw is bad but temporary. Gillette, no argument.

But my point stands. You want to argue about whether we are worst or in the bottom three, fine. But large swaths of the potential market don't want to watch a game at BMO unless conditions are nice, which they rarely are, which means they won't consider making plans to go until the last minute, which as a practical matter means they won't go ever. The views of the 100 regular posters here on this problem (many of whom revel in the bad weather, which is undeniably a cool thing btw) are utterly unrepresentative.

[Beach_Red]

I didn't make this clear. BMO Field is pretty much a replica of several stadiums in MLS. Toyota Park being one. I think Dick's Sporting Goods Park is another.

Never been to Buck Shaw, but that's a high school stadium (actually, inside an university).

MLS is still trying to find its niche in North America, that's how this discussion started. Clearly the league wanted to model itself on the NFL and become a national, major league. At first, from what I could see, the league saw supporter groups as possibly a little bit of devil's candy - yes, they buy tickets (not the most expensive) and create atmosphere, but did the league worry that the atmosphere they created would hinder their chances of getting the bigger market of what we usually call here (derisively) casuals? Because it seemed (sometimes) that supporters were not welcoming to non-supporters and likely MLSE saw it as an either/or situation and wanted the bigger market.

But MLS is still a young league in a very competitive market so I'm just glad it's still getting bigger and still trying to find its niche.

[Yohan]

Yohan, you are one of the most knowledgeable people here .... but omg this is the biggest howler ever, bar none.

Toyota Park is a palace, all brick, roof covering most of the stands, huge concourses, tons of amenities/food choices, charming, lots of bathrooms. It is the polar opposite of BMO

Columbus isn't great but is better than BMO. Buck Shaw is bad but temporary. Gillette, no argument.

But my point stands. You want to argue about whether we are worst or in the bottom three, fine. But large swaths of the potential market don't want to watch a game at BMO unless conditions are nice, which they rarely are, which means they won't consider making plans to go until the last minute, which as a practical matter means they won't go ever. The views of the 100 regular posters here on this problem (many of whom revel in the bad weather, which is undeniably a cool thing btw) are utterly unrepresentative.
I've been to Toyota Park twice. They have roof over their east stands, but I didn't think it was any better than BMO Field.

[ManUtd4ever]

BMO Field isn't the worst park in MLS per se, but it is the cheapest built stadium in the league among the new generation of Soccer Specific Stadiums.

[ag futbol]

The league wants a very pasturized version of support, anything more scares families and first time visitors, who have and will spend a hell of a lot more money than the $300 a year crowd in the south end.

I somewhat understanding what you're getting at here, but MLS owes a lot of success to getting away from the family segment of the market. They are too price sensitive, always deal shopping and never really pay attention to your product. MLS was running along the lines of minor league baseball before TFC accidentally discovered a new way to do things. Now that being said, I still think they are sticky to this area. Their corporate leanings keep drawing them back to the family market, but this is at odds with a fair chunk of the pro sports market south of the border. Some NFL stadiums have on-site court houses FFS, there are so many misdemeanours on game days.

I do believe that MLS is using the supporters image to sell the product as you have mentioned. But they are using it (in Toronto at least) to sell to the mid 20s - 30s yuppie disposable income bracket. You are right the stadium is awful and is full of limitations. Can't get corporate clients to come to the stadium to get rained on. Concessions and other measures are similarly crappy.

Nobody should be mistaken into thinking that the stadium reno is about the supporters or TFCs current core sets of fans. It's about drawing other constituent groups to the stadium, bringing the argos, and the winter classic.

[spark]

I've been to Toyota Park twice. They have roof over their east stands, but I didn't think it was any better than BMO Field.

? Their roof is over both stands

[Auzzy]

Was Paul responsible for the Marlies packs?


I was thinking this myself - enough reason for him to be tarred and feathered. As director of business operations, he must have had some say into that decision.

No that wasn't his idea. I generally don't know exactly what Paul was responsible for (e.g., overall pricing?), but I remember him saying he didn't like the ransom packs, and he tried to get rid of them earlier before they were finally scrapped.

[tiberius]

...
And thank you for answering my question. I respect the fact you nail down the lengths to which you'll be patient. I can't return the favour unfortunately because I've never done it before and am really adverse to doing it in the future. As you point out there are so many moving parts with different levels of responsibilities that all I can do is keep up with the next move and assess it singularly...

I say four years, but I do remember Roogsy arguing ad nauseam, that a year or so was all that is needed for a turn around... probably 4 years is fair, to turn around this whole enterprise mess... That being said, I am not sure that I will wait patiently for four years... the next few months will start to tell a tale, and if 2014 goes nowhere, and by 2015 they don't have the coaching and player personnel completely squared away, I can't imagine I will be happy at all... by that point tho, I probably will care so little, that I cannot be bothered to call for anyone's head on a platter.

I am already uneasy with what happened to Payne and no fan at all of the pre-announcements that Payne started and Ryan + Tim are continuing... I, like most fans and supporters have slowly distanced themselves from the TFC organization, to reduce the pain and heartache of unrequited love... And the soap opera continues...g:D

[trane]

After spending some time at BMO and on this board I started to feel that supporter culture isn't really interested in North Americans who didn't grow up with the game.

I am guilty of this. I have always felt that the native North American version of "soccer" is very different, on the filed and in the stands, and i do not like it. I want to grow the game in Canada badly, but my eurocentric vision of it, can be a problem, particular because old world supporters like me tend to be very open about our prejudices. I admit it.

[trane]

I say four years, but I do remember Roogsy arguing ad nauseam, that a year or so was all that is needed for a turn around... probably 4 years is fair, to turn around this whole enterprise mess... That being said, I am not sure that I will wait patiently for four years... the next few months will start to tell a tale, and if 2014 goes nowhere, and by 2015 they don't have the coaching and player personnel completely squared away, I can't imagine I will be happy at all... by that point tho, I probably will care so little, that I cannot be bothered to call for anyone's head on a platter.

I am already uneasy with what happened to Payne and no fan at all of the pre-announcements that Payne started and Ryan + Tim are continuing... I, like most fans and supporters have slowly distanced themselves from the TFC organization, to reduce the pain and heartache of unrequited love... And the soap opera continues...g:D

I depends on what you mean by turn around, I agree with roogsy, that just for being competitive in terms of making the playoffs, one year is good enough. But to build a true powerhouse team, 3 to 5 years.

[CSO_BBTB]

After spending some time at BMO and on this board I started to feel that supporter culture isn't really interested in North Americans who didn't grow up with the game.

Do OHL teams in smaller towns and cities like Owen Sound and Belleville go out of their way to market their product to people who did not grow up with the sport? The sensible strategy on this sort of thing is always to cater to your core demographic first and foremost especially when as is the case in the GTA they are present in numbers that are more than sufficient to sustain a franchise. Soccer failed over and over again as a spectator sport in North America, because investors tried to change the entertainment product they were trying to sell to cater to the so called "mainstream sports fan" who usually simply wasn't interested and managed in the process to alienate much of what should have been their core market. TFC more by accident than design demonstrated to other investors (who later managed to do it a lot better and take things to the next level) that an urban SSS that attracted something vaguely resembling a knowledgeable soccer crowd overseas was the better way to go than the suburban SSS catering to the youth soccer minivan crowd model that had been pioneered by franchises like the Columbus Crew and FC Dallas.

[Beach_Red]

Do OHL teams in smaller towns and cities like Owen Sound and Belleville go out of their way to market their product to people who did not grow up with the sport? The sensible strategy on this sort of thing is always to cater to your core demographic first and foremost especially when as is the case in the GTA they are present in numbers that are more than sufficient to sustain a franchise. Soccer failed over and over again as a spectator sport in North America, because investors tried to change the entertainment product they were trying to sell to cater to the so called "mainstream sports fan" who usually simply wasn't interested and managed in the process to alienate much of what should have been their core market. TFC more by accident than design demonstrated to other investors (who later managed to do it a lot better and take things to the next level) that an urban SSS that attracted something vaguely resembling a knowledgeable soccer crowd overseas was the better way to go than the suburban SSS catering to the youth soccer minivan crowd model that had been pioneered by franchises like the Columbus Crew and FC Dallas.

I hope you're right. And I hope as soccer continues to grow and that there's room enough for both groups - supporters and minivans, because to be a major, national sport (and satisfy these investors) it will likely need both.

But instead of the OHL example maybe we should look at hockey and the NFL. For a long time both those leagues were regional, blue-collar leagues, mostly in the northeast. Pro football n the US was on the same level as pro wrestling - the Heisman trophy and the Rose Bowl were the pinnacle of football. And in the 60s when the NFL and AFL merged and went national and went after TV ratings they went after a much different demographic. The same with hockey when it expanded, it left its blue-collar (Slapshot) roots as far behind as it could.

Here, this is an exaggeration, but it's kind of like this - there are restaurants on every corner and some investors decide to open a new one anyway. It's got a small number of loyal regulars and it might even have terrific food but when you come in from one of the other restaurants not knowing anything about it and ask if you can have ketchup on the sandwich a bunch of guys start chanting, tell you your culture is stupid and wrong and let off a flare. You might go back to one of the other restaurants....

[OgtheDim]

Which leads to a question:

Is chanting "Is there a fire drill?" at our fellow supporters who are leaving in the rain a good idea?

[Yagbod]

Here, this is an exaggeration, but it's kind of like this - there are restaurants on every corner and some investors decide to open a new one anyway. It's got a small number of loyal regulars and it might even have terrific food but when you come in from one of the other restaurants not knowing anything about it and ask if you can have ketchup on the sandwich a bunch of guys start chanting, tell you your culture is stupid and wrong and let off a flare. You might go back to one of the other restaurants....

This is a great quote.

If this restaurant was smart they would have two types of seating. One for people wandering in looking for a new culinary experience and another for their hardcore regulars. They might sell the food to the hardcore regulars at a discounted price making it attractive to the new comers, but here's the thing: they tell the new customers up front that if they want to join the regulars they have to put up their zany antics and then they enforce that rule so the the regulars do not get harassed by the new people. Or better yet, they put a buffet in the regulars section so people can eat and sit wherever they want and the new comers get told to go back to the new people section if they don't like it.

The restaurant welcomes new people, but they actually protect their regulars and promote their culture.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The restaurant welcomes new people, but they actually protect their regulars and promote their culture.

You just described Joe's for away games.g:D

[Yagbod]

You just described Joe's for away games.g:D

I nominate Joe for next GM, which should be around June-July in my estimation.

[ourtfc]

Good evening gentlemen .. Just wanted to weigh in on the PB thread ... So happy he is gone .. Now I can be a fan again .. They took advantage of us all and PB was big part of that .. So Cheers all , here's to 2014 ... away we go

[DOMIN8R]

If some of you think that because PB has left the building that MLSE is going to change how fans/supporters are treated (i.e.: better - whatever that means) you underestimate the capitalists.

:dupe:

BTW - the gratuitous use of the word "rape" is over the top. That's a word that shouldn't be taken lightly or used out of context, IMO.

How is that for a left leaning post? :dita:

[ensco]

Did someone say capitalist?

Like the post, love the great emoticon!

[DOMIN8R]

Did someone say capitalist?

Like the post, love the great emoticon!

I tip my hat to you, Ensco. The capitalist comment is in the spirit of your Lennin, or was it Stalin(?), quote - when posters seem surprised that MLSE view the SGs through their profit motive lens.

"When I am gone, the Capitalists will drown you like kittens." It's forever etched in my brain.

[ensco]

I tip my hat to you, Ensco. The capitalist comment is in the spirit of your Lennin, or was it Stalin(?), quote - when posters seem surprised that MLSE view the SGs through their profit motive lens.

"When I am gone, the Capitalists will drown you like kittens." It's forever etched in my brain.

It was Stalin, he had lots of great lines.

Another one that I see Field General Leiweke saying to himself in the bathroom mirror:

"I trust no one, not even myself."

[gdg_9]

This tweet Paul sent out this morning definitely earns him some praise!!

Paul Boo-urns ‏@Paulbeirne 47m (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/Paulbeirne/status/395894668275093504) Speaking of trying too hard: have you read you? RT @cathalkelly (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/cathalkelly): On the Raps season opener, Drake & trying too hard: http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2013/10/30/raptors_beat_celtics_in_glitzy_overdone_season_ope ner_kelly.html … (http://t.co/bugpDjNDFo)

[Marc"2L"]

This tweet Paul sent out this morning definitely earns him some praise!!

Paul Boo-urns ‏@Paulbeirne 47m (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/Paulbeirne/status/395894668275093504)Speaking of trying too hard: have you read you? RT @cathalkelly (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/cathalkelly): On the Raps season opener, Drake & trying too hard: http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2013/10/30/raptors_beat_celtics_in_glitzy_overdone_season_ope ner_kelly.html … (http://t.co/bugpDjNDFo)

Oh god that's great, because its the very words I've used in the past to describe him, a try hard. Wouldn't it be grand knowing after every time he speaks to somebody, under their breath they call him a try hard?

[cwell]

Good edit. Well done.

[tfcmanu]

Paul Beirne‏@Paulbeirne22m (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/Paulbeirne/status/396371533465403393)Ok, so the cats out of the bag...on December 2 I shall join the Ottawa Senators overseeing their Ticket Sales and Service group. Go Sens!

[Pint]

Paul Beirne‏@Paulbeirne22m (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/Paulbeirne/status/396371533465403393)Ok, so the cats out of the bag...on December 2 I shall join the Ottawa Senators overseeing their Ticket Sales and Service group. Go Sens!

Paul B and the sens deserve eachother

to add another joke: they must have seen the decline in toronto fans at the games and hoped he would do the same for them

[tfcmanu]

^ Agreed match made in heaven....Too bad Paul will not be doing work for Fury Fc that would be interesting

[ensco]

That is a tough job. Melnyk .... that location ....Good luck to him.

[Red CB Toronto]

That is a tough job. Melnyk .... that location ....Good luck to him.

That is good for Paul, getting senior executive gig with a NHL team. Guess he is hired gun of sorts.

[inheavensince07]

That is good for Paul, getting senior executive gig with a NHL team. Guess he is hired gun of sorts.

There goes the Sens .. lol .. free beaver tail with any season tic pack

[Initial B]

Paul Beirne‏@Paulbeirne22m (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/Paulbeirne/status/396371533465403393)Ok, so the cats out of the bag...on December 2 I shall join the Ottawa Senators overseeing their Ticket Sales and Service group. Go Sens!
NNNoooooOOOOOOooooooo!!!!!

[Red4ever]

Which leads to a question:

Is chanting "Is there a fire drill?" at our fellow supporters who are leaving in the rain a good idea?

Yes. It's funny.

[mlsintoronto]

...bump...


Couldn't resist.

[Shakes McQueen]

...bump...


Couldn't resist.

Who is this troll? g:D

- Scott

[inheavensince07]

...bump...


Couldn't resist.

Soo happy PB got to see the thread .. I am sure he read it all .. Well i wish him all the best at new gig I couldn't be happier to see him go far away .. Just the smugness and uppity ways of all FO in last 7 years was enough for me .. i guess karma does exist , because they couldn't win a cup of coffee during that time .. My guess is this is the start of a new day for TFC . Things WILL be better now .. never the same as far as support but way better IMHO.. Cheers MLSinTO its not been a slice :):)

[DOMIN8R]

Soo happy PB got to see the thread .. I am sure he read it all .. Well i wish him all the best at new gig I couldn't be happier to see him go far away .. Just the smugness and uppity ways of all FO in last 7 years was enough for me .. i guess karma does exist , because they couldn't win a cup of coffee during that time .. My guess is this is the start of a new day for TFC . Things WILL be better now .. never the same as far as support but way better IMHO.. Cheers MLSinTO its not been a slice :):)

Wow! Your hatred for one person knows no limits.

Are you one of those guys who will just drift away once he/she doesn't have something to be angry about?

[inheavensince07]

Wow! Your hatred for one person knows no limits.

Are you one of those guys who will just drift away once he/she doesn't have something to be angry about?

No sir I will not drift away .. And I do resent your statement my hatred for one person knows no limits.. I will certainly take a break from TFC for now as frankly who really cares in Dec what this team is doing ..is my opinion..
PB deserves all the hatred he received .. nobody gets attention they don't deserve actually , ask ROFO :)

I wanna be happy about TFC and that was the first step .. cleaning out all the cancer in the org .they did that so lets all move on. Me being happy the tumor saw the posts has nothing to do with hatred .. Now merry xmas all that wants TFC to move on and win.. I know I do

[Fort York Redcoat]

No sir I will not drift away .. And I do resent your statement my hatred for one person knows no limits.. I will certainly take a break from TFC for now as frankly who really cares in Dec what this team is doing ..is my opinion..


So you're drifting away till next year because nothing's happening. Well I guess we'll see if this is the cure for the bitterness you've felt.

See you next year!

[inheavensince07]

So you're drifting away till next year because nothing's happening. Well I guess we'll see if this is the cure for the bitterness you've felt.

See you next year!



How you like TFC now Mr B ... I LOve TFC like a born again christian Bale