I actually, incredibly...BELIEVE in 2014

[backbeat]

i should be pissed - in many ways i am pissed and have been for 7 years

but i do believe we truly have turned a corner

there is a semblance of a nucleus of a team for next year with substantial cap space to spend

add the 3 DPs, Laba, a bona-fide AM and Striker - as well we have the cap space dollars to spend to add significantly to the back line and mids - we could be looking pretty healthy to start the 2014 season

i like the budget control of the new GM and i am willing to give Nelsen another year

now give me free season tickets or a 'suffer' for our faith discount for the pain i've/we're endured the past 7 years and i'm peachy keen to see through the tangibility of 2014 to determine my commitment to 2015 and beyond...

i.e PROVE IT WITH RESULTS

[TFC07]

Yeah, I agree. I feel we got a good young core and few pieces in starting lineup away from contending for a playoff spot next season. We just need better attacking players and healthy roster to make some noise.

[69Chevy396]

Yeah, I agree. I feel we got a good young core and few pieces in starting lineup away from contending for a playoff spot next season. We just need better attacking players and healthy roster to make some noise.
Laba, Osorio, Henry, Dike and Caldwell are the only untouchables. Perhaps Bendik too. This team needs 7 to 10 additional MLS calibre players to compete. We are where we were in year one. Lets see what the team does before the 14 season begins, that will define this current administration.

[TFC07]

Laba, Osorio, Henry, Dike and Caldwell are the only untouchables. Perhaps Bendik too. This team needs 7 to 10 additional MLS calibre players to compete. We are where we were in year one. Lets see what the team does before the 14 season begins, that will define this current administration.

I think Morgan and Rey should be added to your list. Guys like Hall are bench players and cheap to keep on roster. If we get quality attacking players, then we are good enough to sneak into the playoffs next season (assuming we're healthy and get our players on time).

[notthesun]

I think Morgan and Rey should be added to your list. Guys like Hall are bench players and cheap to keep on roster. If we get quality attacking players, then we are good enough to sneak into the playoffs next season (assuming we're healthy and get our players on time).

No way is Morgan an "untouchable". He's been okay at best recently and was horrible to start the year. This is coming from a guy who defended him vehemently before the start of this season. His development has stalled relative to where I thought he'd be by now. I'd gladly trade him if we're bringing in a better LB.

Rey has improved every game since he's arrived and I'll gladly have him back. I think management would as well if his salary isn't a problem.

[TFC07]

No way is Morgan an "untouchable". He's been okay at best recently and was horrible to start the year. This is coming from a guy who defended him vehemently before the start of this season. His development has stalled relative to where I thought he'd be by now. I'd gladly trade him if we're bringing in a better LB.

Rey has improved every game since he's arrived and I'll gladly have him back. I think management would as well if his salary isn't a problem.

Morgan is cheap, young and domestic player. He's good enough to become a solid player in the long haul and I highly doubt we're going spend a lot of money on LB/full back or get very good LB for cheap. I don't see Morgan going anywhere unless we get an offer that we can't refuse.

We got more serious holes on this roster that needs to be addressed.

[Ivy]

He has stepped his game up since Elmer came in.

[Pint]

Here is my take for 2014:

Returning players who start:
Bendik - proved to be a quality starter
Caldwell - veteran leadership on the back end
Laba - our top performer this season IMO and will only get better
Osorio - very good young Canadian who came out of nowhere to earn his spot
Rey - has shown he is a very capable winger in this league, salary may be a little high but with better cap management we should easily be able to afford him

Returning players who have a good shot at keeping starting positions:
Henry - need playing time to mature so not sure sticking him on the bench would be wise. Prone to mistakes which may cost us some point in the short term but his development is necessary for us and for the CMNT
Morgan - picked his game back up once Elmer came in and looks like somebody who need a player nipping at his heels.

Returning players fighting for playing time:
Dike - would be a good #2 striker but if we do add the 2DP ST then should be one of the best off the bench options in the league.
Bekker - torn between a loan or keeping him here next season. Needs playing time
Convey - decent player on too much $$, but if we are to have a "bad contract" still on the books next year we could do much worse than convey coming off the bench or spot starting(Cup games)
Welshmen - needs a loan to hamilton(assuming they get the USL team)
Aparicio - probable loan to hamilton
Wiedeman - solid #4 striker option, plays some cup games and comes in late when it is raining.
Bloom - Has been okay but very small sample size and not sold on his ability, decent depth with potential for more
Hall - Depth player who knows his role when on the pitch. Valuable when the salary is manageable
Russel - See hall... IMO only 1 of the 2 need to be kept
Agbossoumonde - Depth player with potential, hopefully he will be kept and hopefully we will see some growth next year
Elmer - was brought in this year so i guess they see something in him... provides competition for morgan
Konopka - 2nd string goaltender
Roberts - Loan next season again hopefully it is in hamilton.
Lambn - Young, has shown flashs (less this season than last season). Wage is alright but takes up an international spot... could become a domestic soon but if we need an int spot in the short run and can't trade for one i would think Reggie is at the top of the chopping block. I would keep him as a second bench winger but wouldn't be heart broken if he leaves

Players who have a murky future with TFC:
Stefan Frei - good player but has battle injures the past few season and is on too much $$$$. IMO he is as good as gone
Kovermans - contract is up and isn't likely to accept a deal that is low enough to retain his services. only chance he stays is if we fail to land a DP striker
Earnshaw - too much money for the role he would likely play, same as kovermans (only chance he stays is if we fail to land those DP's)
Eckersley - too much $$$, has a chance to be a domestic next year so if he will take a reduced salary he will have a spot but i doubt he takes a big enough cut to stay
Braun - too much money for what he brings, need upgrades at ST which should lead to braun hitting the road.
Richter - lost his back up spot to Bloom... could stay but TFC should look for an upgrade
Thomas - almost forgot about this guy since i don't remember him ever doing anything. if he is cheap he may stay but they obviously don't see too much in him if he hasn't gotten playing time with the recent rosters we have had.

[kodiakTFC]

Here is my take for 2014:

Returning players who start:
Bendik - proved to be a quality starter
Caldwell - veteran leadership on the back end
Laba - our top performer this season IMO and will only get better
Osorio - very good young Canadian who came out of nowhere to earn his spot
Rey - has shown he is a very capable winger in this league, salary may be a little high but with better cap management we should easily be able to afford him

Returning players who have a good shot at keeping starting positions:
Henry - need playing time to mature so not sure sticking him on the bench would be wise. Prone to mistakes which may cost us some point in the short term but his development is necessary for us and for the CMNT
Morgan - picked his game back up once Elmer came in and looks like somebody who need a player nipping at his heels.

Returning players fighting for playing time:
Dike - would be a good #2 striker but if we do add the 2DP ST then should be one of the best off the bench options in the league.
Bekker - torn between a loan or keeping him here next season. Needs playing time
Convey - decent player on too much $$, but if we are to have a "bad contract" still on the books next year we could do much worse than convey coming off the bench or spot starting(Cup games)
Welshmen - needs a loan to hamilton(assuming they get the USL team)
Aparicio - probable loan to hamilton
Wiedeman - solid #4 striker option, plays some cup games and comes in late when it is raining.
Bloom - Has been okay but very small sample size and not sold on his ability, decent depth with potential for more
Hall - Depth player who knows his role when on the pitch. Valuable when the salary is manageable
Russel - See hall... IMO only 1 of the 2 need to be kept
Agbossoumonde - Depth player with potential, hopefully he will be kept and hopefully we will see some growth next year
Elmer - was brought in this year so i guess they see something in him... provides competition for morgan
Konopka - 2nd string goaltender
Roberts - Loan next season again hopefully it is in hamilton.

Players who have a murky future with TFC:
Stefan Frei - good player but has battle injures the past few season and is on too much $$$$. IMO he is as good as gone
Kovermans - contract is up and isn't likely to accept a deal that is low enough to retain his services. only chance he stays is if we fail to land a DP striker
Earnshaw - too much money for the role he would likely play, same as kovermans (only chance he stays is if we fail to land those DP's)
Eckersley - too much $$$, has a chance to be a domestic next year so if he will take a reduced salary he will have a spot but i doubt he takes a big enough cut to stay
Braun - too much money for what he brings, need upgrades at ST which should lead to braun hitting the road.
Richter - lost his back up spot to Bloom... could stay but TFC should look for an upgrade
Thomas - almost forgot about this guy since i don't remember him ever doing anything. if he is cheap he may stay but they obviously don't see too much in him if he hasn't gotten playing time with the recent rosters we have had.

I agree with all of this. Well put.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'd love to do a text string search for "turned a corner" on these boards, and see how many posts come up.

- Scott

[mowe]

Ya good post Pint I agree with most of that.

IMO we need at the minimum 3 starting quality players:
1) Striker - use a DP slot, spend as much money as needed to make sure we get a consistent goal scoring threat
2) Attacking Mid - another DP, this team sorely needs some creativity going forward
3) Centre Back - someone who can start and push Henry to the bench and cover if Caldwell gets injured

The FO needs to hit on those 3 positions and then focus on building depth at fullback and wing. It's not an easy job by any means. But it's time for Nelson and the FO to get to work.

[Pint]

I'm torn on how to use the DP slots.

1. 1 ST and 1 AM: this would mean we move Osorio to the wing where he did play a bit this year but is not his best position.

would leave Striker depth as: DP, Dike, Earnshaw(would need to be brought back), Weedman

or

2. 2 ST and keep the middle of the midfield young while trying to grab a vet winger who is better than convey.

[ag futbol]

I really suspect that Nelsen doesn't believe in playing an attacking mid. We play two box-to-box types at most, but usually one DM and then one box-to-box guy. Really not a fan, it makes the centre of the field too flat and the attack becomes pear shaped.

Pint has the right idea. This is really about who's a starter and who is not. After that it becomes a lot less important. If we actually pick up a few more quality attackers it will help us reveal more about the rest of our team. Right now it's hard to judge things such as the quality of our defence because nobody respects the quality of our attack.

[notthesun]

It sounds like it's gonna be two DP strikers. My guess is one will be a target man and the other will be more comfortable dropping a bit deeper for the ball. We'll play a 4-4-2 with one ST dropping off a bit more and acting as a CF.

[Haddy]

The addition of Elmer was great in that it lit a fire under Morgan. He still spends more time smiling and saying 'come on ref' more than actually running but he's at least won his spot back.

Only problem with that, it's made Elmer an expensive sub.

[Richard]

Here is my take for 2014:

Returning players who start:
Bendik - proved to be a quality starter
Caldwell - veteran leadership on the back end
Laba - our top performer this season IMO and will only get better
Osorio - very good young Canadian who came out of nowhere to earn his spot
Rey - has shown he is a very capable winger in this league, salary may be a little high but with better cap management we should easily be able to afford him

Returning players who have a good shot at keeping starting positions:
Henry - need playing time to mature so not sure sticking him on the bench would be wise. Prone to mistakes which may cost us some point in the short term but his development is necessary for us and for the CMNT
Morgan - picked his game back up once Elmer came in and looks like somebody who need a player nipping at his heels.

Returning players fighting for playing time:
Dike - would be a good #2 striker but if we do add the 2DP ST then should be one of the best off the bench options in the league.
Bekker - torn between a loan or keeping him here next season. Needs playing time
Convey - decent player on too much $$, but if we are to have a "bad contract" still on the books next year we could do much worse than convey coming off the bench or spot starting(Cup games)
Welshmen - needs a loan to hamilton(assuming they get the USL team)
Aparicio - probable loan to hamilton
Wiedeman - solid #4 striker option, plays some cup games and comes in late when it is raining.
Bloom - Has been okay but very small sample size and not sold on his ability, decent depth with potential for more
Hall - Depth player who knows his role when on the pitch. Valuable when the salary is manageable
Russel - See hall... IMO only 1 of the 2 need to be kept
Agbossoumonde - Depth player with potential, hopefully he will be kept and hopefully we will see some growth next year
Elmer - was brought in this year so i guess they see something in him... provides competition for morgan
Konopka - 2nd string goaltender
Roberts - Loan next season again hopefully it is in hamilton.

Players who have a murky future with TFC:
Stefan Frei - good player but has battle injures the past few season and is on too much $$$$. IMO he is as good as gone
Kovermans - contract is up and isn't likely to accept a deal that is low enough to retain his services. only chance he stays is if we fail to land a DP striker
Earnshaw - too much money for the role he would likely play, same as kovermans (only chance he stays is if we fail to land those DP's)
Eckersley - too much $$$, has a chance to be a domestic next year so if he will take a reduced salary he will have a spot but i doubt he takes a big enough cut to stay
Braun - too much money for what he brings, need upgrades at ST which should lead to braun hitting the road.
Richter - lost his back up spot to Bloom... could stay but TFC should look for an upgrade
Thomas - almost forgot about this guy since i don't remember him ever doing anything. if he is cheap he may stay but they obviously don't see too much in him if he hasn't gotten playing time with the recent rosters we have had.

Good list but you missed Reggie Lamb g:D. Who is probably not returning next year.

[Yohan]

Good list but you missed Reggie Lamb g:D. Who is probably not returning next year.
I'd say false. Nelsen rates him and thinks him more as a long term project. Dude is only 21 and makes moneyball wage for his value.

[OgtheDim]

I'd say on the most likely to be removed from the Int spots list, Lambe sits at 4th. Nelsen seems to like his replacement wingers - Lambe and Elmer fit that right now.

[Pint]

Ahh yes Reggie lol forgot about that guy....

I will update my original post to include him.

[OfficeGuy]

Good analysis - very unsure about Henry tho - why the onus on TFC for development for CanMNT - he has not been solid at all all season and has made horrendous mistakes as well


"Henry - need playing time to mature so not sure sticking him on the bench would be wise. Prone to mistakes which may cost us some point in the short term but his development is necessary for us and for the CMNT"

[Pint]

Good analysis - very unsure about Henry tho - why the onus on TFC for development for CanMNT - he has not been solid at all all season and has made horrendous mistakes as well


"Henry - need playing time to mature so not sure sticking him on the bench would be wise. Prone to mistakes which may cost us some point in the short term but his development is necessary for us and for the CMNT"

I figured i may get called on that: it is not our job to develop CMNT players but Henry is a young player with lots of promise and needs playing time. We need to do everything we can to properly develop our young players and if that means not burying them on the depth chart. It does us no good to sit him on the bench IMO, we have a choice loan him out or play him.

[Alonso]

In my opinion if we have 2 Dp's come in the summer transfer window 2014 is doomed as well.

This team makes many mistakes every year like a horror remake of the movie Groundhog Day. IMO these being too much turnover of players from one year to the next, new coach every year, overpaying players in a panic, trading away good domestic prospects, and the créme de la créme: Not having your entire team in place including DP's, bench players and water boys, TO START THE PRE-SEASON.

Granted the coach is staying put, and the overpaying panic buys seems to be sorted out.


But, THIS WHOLE TEAM BETTER BE IN FUCKING PLACE COME THE PRE-SEASON OF NEXT YEAR OR THESE NEW GUYS IN CHARGE ARE JUST AS MORONIC AS THE LAST ONES.

We'll probably be trailing 5 or 6 guys 4 games into the season like every year by the sounds of what is coming out of the new front office and no one will know if they have a starting position and Morgan will be tried as a forward a la Adrian Cann in early 2012 season for the first few games.

[Initial B]

We will not have turned a corner until TFC has a season with more wins than losses. I don't see that happening next year. 2015 is going to be the make-or-break season. If we don't make the playoffs by then, there won't be a 2016 season - season ticket sales will have cratered and there will be too many other US markets that will make better use of the franchise (from MLS's perspective).

[Fort York Redcoat]

We will not have turned a corner until TFC has a season with more wins than losses. I don't see that happening next year. 2015 is going to be the make-or-break season. If we don't make the playoffs by then, there won't be a 2016 season - season ticket sales will have cratered and there will be too many other US markets that will make better use of the franchise (from MLS's perspective).

You need to watch Chivas USA closer. We're not going anywhere.

It may be your tipping point but the team will be here.

[habstfc]

We will not have turned a corner until TFC has a season with more wins than losses. I don't see that happening next year. 2015 is going to be the make-or-break season. If we don't make the playoffs by then, there won't be a 2016 season - season ticket sales will have cratered and there will be too many other US markets that will make better use of the franchise (from MLS's perspective).I believe we sit about 7th this season in attendance. There will always be a core of 15- 17k that will show up pretty much no matter what.

[Yohan]

I!.......I!
I believe!......... I believe!
I believe that we will win! I believe that we will win! I believe that we will win!

[Abou Sky]

We will not have turned a corner until TFC has a season with more wins than losses. I don't see that happening next year. 2015 is going to be the make-or-break season. If we don't make the playoffs by then, there won't be a 2016 season - season ticket sales will have cratered and there will be too many other US markets that will make better use of the franchise (from MLS's perspective).

Note, the least points possible to have more wins than losses is 47 (12-11-11)

This year, that is no playoffs, I don't think that is quite enough, I think we actually have to be GOOD instead of not bad.

[trane]

I have no opinion about 2014, there is no concrete reason for optimism, but hope springs eternal, so I chose do hold my pessimism until I see concrete plans for the future. But on the flip side until I see such plans no reason to believe.

[Cashcleaner]

I think Alonso really hit it on the head regarding how prepared the roster will be starting the season. It's so true - we've never had a "complete" team coming into March and that's undoubtedly had an impact on us. I mean, think of all those dropped points from the first half-dozen games or so this year alone - especially the loses to Montreal and Vancouver. Far too often guys are lacing up their boots with so little time after getting signed and flown over. There needs to be more time given over to acclimatize them to the city, the team, and the league.

[Nestease]

I believe we sit about 7th this season in attendance. There will always be a core of 15- 17k that will show up pretty much no matter what.

I wouldn't count on that.

[Wull]

I think Alonso really hit it on the head regarding how prepared the roster will be starting the season. It's so true - we've never had a "complete" team coming into March and that's undoubtedly had an impact on us. I mean, think of all those dropped points from the first half-dozen games or so this year alone - especially the loses to Montreal and Vancouver. Far too often guys are lacing up their boots with so little time after getting signed and flown over. There needs to be more time given over to acclimatize them to the city, the team, and the league.

we won't have that next year either if the 2 DPs aren't coming until after the world cup. We're basically being set up for failure if that's the case (not that I think 2 DPs are going to be a magical cure of course)

[Kaz]

This season the number one issue has been the attack and I think that has a lot to do with the condition the team was in and the best player for the attack we have had has not played in two seasons. Koev has been a money sink and there is nothing that can be done.

Add in we have a strong Attacking players salary still tied up in a Right back and you the offensive issues become clear.

This season we haven't let that many goals in, and if we actually had the confidence in our scoring ability I think that would be a lower number. Double the goals with a competent offence and you end up with a playoff calibre team.

The Phili game which I caught most of which is rare these days, was lost more due to bad luck, (ie a more skilled player sinks the same shots) with Convey and specifically Earnshaw.

The Penalty at the end was likely not a bad call and the goal was what it was.

The boys were playing 11v10 for while there and still couldn't muster a goal.

That is were the major issues have been.

Again last several years the entire offensive salary has sat in the back line, even wasting a DP slot (again) to sit him in the DM role. Then we have a single injury upfront and we have no other options. Next year maybe the first time since Carver left that we have had a proper cap spread.

[OgtheDim]

.... If we don't make the playoffs by then, there won't be a 2016 season - season ticket sales will have cratered and there will be too many other US markets that will make better use of the franchise (from MLS's perspective).

No way TL and MLSE lose that much face. They will make mistakes but if things got really bad, and only 8K of paid tickets were showing up a game, the papering would start in earnest. I could see them giving away 8K of seats a game. Yes they do some now. But, nowhere near what would be done in that case.

And the raz a ma taz would get ramped up to ear busting heights. We might even see Muhammad Ali.

[QBall]

Note, the least points possible to have more wins than losses is 47 (12-11-11)

That's not true. You can do it with 36 points (1-0-33). :) I think you should win some sort of award if you can achieve this record.

[QBall]

We will not have turned a corner until TFC has a season with more wins than losses. I don't see that happening next year. 2015 is going to be the make-or-break season. If we don't make the playoffs by then, there won't be a 2016 season - season ticket sales will have cratered and there will be too many other US markets that will make better use of the franchise (from MLS's perspective).

MLSE doesn't sell assets. There is no low point in season ticket sales that would cause MLSE to sell TFC. Plus I doubt MLS wants TFC to move. With the exception of Miami there aren't any more viable big markets in the U.S. to move a team to.

[Abou Sky]

That's not true. You can do it with 36 points (1-0-33). :) I think you should win some sort of award if you can achieve this record.

kleva ;)

[Initial B]

MLSE doesn't sell assets. There is no low point in season ticket sales that would cause MLSE to sell TFC. Plus I doubt MLS wants TFC to move. With the exception of Miami there aren't any more viable big markets in the U.S. to move a team to. I'm not saying that MLSE would sell TFC. I'm saying that MLS would take the franchise away from MLSE and give it to some other city. If nothing brings back the fans, and MLS increases in popularity down in the US, I could see there being a break-even point where MLS would make more money moving TFC somewhere else.

You know, I almost want Lieweke to fail and see MLSE broken and humbled. Almost.

But I'm sure that there are numerous groups within MLS that would love to see this happen considering the number of bridges MLSE has burned over the years.

[Cashcleaner]

^ I don't think the league would ever consider such an action. If Toronto left, what would happen to Montreal or Vancouver? I'm not suggesting their respective success as clubs depends on ours, but in the very least, the Impact would certainly lose out on their closest rivals - the highest attended games by far for both our clubs is the Toronto/Montreal "derby". Take TFC out of the equation of MLS in Canada and you've severely ham-stringed the other two clubs.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'm not saying that MLSE would sell TFC. I'm saying that MLS would take the franchise away from MLSE and give it to some other city. If nothing brings back the fans, and MLS increases in popularity down in the US, I could see there being a break-even point where MLS would make more money moving TFC somewhere else.

You know, I almost want Lieweke to fail and see MLSE broken and humbled. Almost.

But I'm sure that there are numerous groups within MLS that would love to see this happen considering the number of bridges MLSE has burned over the years.

Maybe some players, or agents, but the actual owners and MLS front office would love to see Toronto succeed. They don't benefit when any franchise flounders and dies.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

I think we have a few players who look like they may be nice pieces to a real team, but aside from that I have little "belief" right now.

- Scott

[Huyton]

Consider what Chivas draws for attendance, I think we have a long way to fall yet before MLS yanks the plug. I'm surpised they haven't tried to move the Goats to a different major city with a large hispanic population, like Pheonix.

[cmonyoureds]

Because of the first few years of ridiculous success off the field, there will always, always be someone who thinks they can bring it back.

There have been a few times where there have been some revealing comments regarding Garber's desire to figure out how to get Toronto back to what it was. It's all about $ and he knows there are $ here. They just need to get their hands on them again.

[Derko]

Because of the first few years of ridiculous success off the field, there will always, always be someone who thinks they can bring it back.

There have been a few times where there have been some revealing comments regarding Garber's desire to figure out how to get Toronto back to what it was. It's all about $ and he knows there are $ here. They just need to get their hands on them again.

Come on we all know that they (TFC, ML$E) just need, to be competitive and in the game, and fans will flock back, Poor attendance is in direct relation to wins and losses. IF TFC can manage to become a .500 team with a few blowouts and the fickle ones will return, my opinion

[CoachGT]

Come on we all know that they (TFC, ML$E) just need, to be competitive and in the game, and fans will flock back, Poor attendance is in direct relation to wins and losses. IF TFC can manage to become a .500 team with a few blowouts and the fickle ones will return, my opinion


I'm not quite as sure about that. I think it will take a couple of years of competitive to get many back. But there are going to be a number of individuals who have crossed the point of no return. I agree that many will return, but there will be some who will not. I think that baseball may be a valid comparison. The 1994 strike in baseball hurt that game for a long time, even in the some of the hottest baseball cities in the US. It really hasn't recovered fully here, partially because of being non-competitive, but there are other reasons too.

[CoachGT]

Here is my take for 2014:

Returning players who start:
Bendik - proved to be a quality starter
Caldwell - veteran leadership on the back end
Laba - our top performer this season IMO and will only get better
Osorio - very good young Canadian who came out of nowhere to earn his spot
Rey - has shown he is a very capable winger in this league, salary may be a little high but with better cap management we should easily be able to afford him

Returning players who have a good shot at keeping starting positions:
Henry - need playing time to mature so not sure sticking him on the bench would be wise. Prone to mistakes which may cost us some point in the short term but his development is necessary for us and for the CMNT
Morgan - picked his game back up once Elmer came in and looks like somebody who need a player nipping at his heels.

Returning players fighting for playing time:
Dike - would be a good #2 striker but if we do add the 2DP ST then should be one of the best off the bench options in the league.
Bekker - torn between a loan or keeping him here next season. Needs playing time
Convey - decent player on too much $$, but if we are to have a "bad contract" still on the books next year we could do much worse than convey coming off the bench or spot starting(Cup games)
Welshmen - needs a loan to hamilton(assuming they get the USL team)
Aparicio - probable loan to hamilton
Wiedeman - solid #4 striker option, plays some cup games and comes in late when it is raining.
Bloom - Has been okay but very small sample size and not sold on his ability, decent depth with potential for more
Hall - Depth player who knows his role when on the pitch. Valuable when the salary is manageable
Russel - See hall... IMO only 1 of the 2 need to be kept
Agbossoumonde - Depth player with potential, hopefully he will be kept and hopefully we will see some growth next year
Elmer - was brought in this year so i guess they see something in him... provides competition for morgan
Konopka - 2nd string goaltender
Roberts - Loan next season again hopefully it is in hamilton.
Lambn - Young, has shown flashs (less this season than last season). Wage is alright but takes up an international spot... could become a domestic soon but if we need an int spot in the short run and can't trade for one i would think Reggie is at the top of the chopping block. I would keep him as a second bench winger but wouldn't be heart broken if he leaves

Players who have a murky future with TFC:
Stefan Frei - good player but has battle injures the past few season and is on too much $$$$. IMO he is as good as gone
Kovermans - contract is up and isn't likely to accept a deal that is low enough to retain his services. only chance he stays is if we fail to land a DP striker
Earnshaw - too much money for the role he would likely play, same as kovermans (only chance he stays is if we fail to land those DP's)
Eckersley - too much $$$, has a chance to be a domestic next year so if he will take a reduced salary he will have a spot but i doubt he takes a big enough cut to stay
Braun - too much money for what he brings, need upgrades at ST which should lead to braun hitting the road.
Richter - lost his back up spot to Bloom... could stay but TFC should look for an upgrade
Thomas - almost forgot about this guy since i don't remember him ever doing anything. if he is cheap he may stay but they obviously don't see too much in him if he hasn't gotten playing time with the recent rosters we have had.

Pretty good post. But there are a few I don't rate quite as highly.

Bendik - He's okay, but his greatest asset is his value. I don't think he is as highly skilled as others seem to think.
Osorio - Good young player, but in a real lineup over the short term I see him as depth, coming on in the 60th minute for energy. Longer term, (2-3 years from now) he may be the starter.
Rey - Depth mostly, there is still room for an upgrade. With better players around, I suspect he may come down a bit in value.
Dike - 3rd or 4th striker, along with Weideman. He adds energy, but at a level that is difficult to sustain over a full 90.

If the concept is to bring in 7 players to help bolster the lineup, I can see Laba, Caldwell, Bendik and Rey being the four that stay with the others being relegated to the bench. Henry and Ecks are on the bubble (if Ecks stays, and he might because of other connections to the city). Osorio is on the same bubble. Morgan has an outside chance of starting infrequently. But I really can't see 7 better players being added in one window (off season).

[Gazza]

I'd love to do a text string search for "turned a corner" on these boards, and see how many posts come up.

- Scott

My optimism turned a corner and slammed right into apathy.

[cmonyoureds]

i'm not quite as sure about that. I think it will take a couple of years of competitive to get many back. But there are going to be a number of individuals who have crossed the point of no return. I agree that many will return, but there will be some who will not. I think that baseball may be a valid comparison. The 1994 strike in baseball hurt that game for a long time, even in the some of the hottest baseball cities in the us. It really hasn't recovered fully here, partially because of being non-competitive, but there are other reasons too.bingo

[Yohan]

Can we rename the thread to reflect the hijack, ie player assessment thread? lol

Keep

Goalkeeper

Joe Bendik, 24, 46k
-Even if he gets 100% increase in his wage, Bendik would be a bargain for a starter in MLS. He's not a top 5 GK yet, but he's good enough at his value, and this is only his first season that he got consistent mins. He's only 24, and he'll get better.

Chris Konopka, 28, 46k
-If he's just a back up at 46k, he'll be good enough.

Quillan Roberts, 19, 46k
-TFC believes in this young lad, and with couple of seasons on loan, he'll be ready to challenge for first team.

Defender

Doneil Henry, 20, 50k
-His education has been costly for TFC, but he's got potential. Right now, he's 3rd CB level. I think a year at NASL/USL level would do him wonders, and be challenging for a starter spot for 2015.

Ashtone Morgan, 22, 60k
-Had fire lit on his ass and he stepped up, but only to about avg MLS fullback level. Still has a lot to work on, esp his positioning and first touch.

Gale Agbossoumonde, 21, 46k
-Cheap depth for 4th defender. Every MLS teams needs guys like Boss who is cheap but can do the job when called upon.

Steven Caldwell, 33, 80k
-I'm pretty sure his salary is likely 160k or abouts, but TFC needs Caldwell to perform for at least one more season. Time is catching up very fast for him though.

Midfield

Jeremy Hall, 25, 80k
-Can play multiple positions and just good enough to be value for what he brings to the table as depth.

Kyle Bekker, 23, 46k
-He needs to develop better footy IQ and be more composed. MLS is too fast for him right now. He needs a loan at USL/NASL badly to develop and more importantly, get more confidence.

Reggie Lambe, 22, 67k
-If you think Lambe as a draft pick, he's about the level where you'd get most NCAA guys. Needs to develop consistency. I'd think of loaning him out too.

Darel Russell, 32, 100k
-Good enough to play in MLS, and brings the grit and experience that every team needs, esp a team full of young guys.

Jonathan Osorio, 21, 46k
-The boy is going to get a raise. I think he's been less impress as CM than RM, but this just means he needs more development. I don't think he's quite starter level in MLS yet, and I wouldn't pin him to carry the team for 2014, if Nelsen insists on playing 2 CMs.

Matias Laba, 21, 200k
-Lynchpin of TFC. Whoever said don't waste DP spot on a DM... well, in MLS, DMs are one of those positions that are critically important. The dip in play when Laba was playing and not is so evident.

Bobby Convey, 30, 200k
-Another veteran who is good enough to start at LM for most MLS clubs. You'd like more pace for a wide midfielder, but Convey can cross and pass decently. If someone better comes along, sure, trade Convey, but I don't think Convey has done anything to lose his spot. 1 goal 4 assists in 20 games isn't bad.

Alvaro Rey, 180k
-When I think of a 'Spanish winger', Rey fits the mold. Instead of using pace and athleticism, he uses technical skills to beat a defender and deliver a cross into the box. Start to show signs why Nelsen wanted him pretty badly and with getting used to MLS, I think he'll be one to watch for in 2014.

Manny Aparicio, 18, 35k
-Young attacking midfielder who can pass, but needs experience. I'm hoping a loan at USL level will get him some development, and hopefully also learn how to be a box to box midfielder if he's going to fit under Nelsen's plan.

Forward

Robert Earnshaw, 32, 139k
-Earnshaw is one of streakiest and also unluckiest strikers I've ever seen in MLS. The quality is there, it's just well, hard to put it together sometimes. With a year of MLS experience in his belt, and hopefully be injury free, I think Earnshaw has one year as good, first off the bench, occasional starter role left in him.

Bright Dike, 26, 58k
-Strong, with some pace, and good wage. When he becomes fully recovered, he's going to be a good depth for TFC. And if he can replicate 5 goals in 12 games production as he did in Portland, even better.

[Richard]

Darel Russell, 32, 100k
-Good enough to play in MLS, and brings the grit and experience that every team needs, esp a team full of young guys.


I agree mostly but Russell is expendable. 100k and an international spot for a bench player is not good enough. Maybe at 65k but we should be looking to bring in a domestic to replace Russell.

[pdubs]

I agree mostly but Russell is expendable. 100k and an international spot for a bench player is not good enough. Maybe at 65k but we should be looking to bring in a domestic to replace Russell.

russell has a green card as reported by Larson so doesn't take up international spot.

[mowe]

I agree mostly but Russell is expendable. 100k and an international spot for a bench player is not good enough. Maybe at 65k but we should be looking to bring in a domestic to replace Russell.

Russell has a green card. He's on a pricey salary but other than that I think he's worthwhile to keep around as a squad player.

[Yohan]

I agree mostly but Russell is expendable. 100k and an international spot for a bench player is not good enough. Maybe at 65k but we should be looking to bring in a domestic to replace Russell.
not an int. he has green card

[KGH]

I think you guys are WAAAAAY to optimistic about 2014. It's going to be another rebuilding year. We won't make the play-offs and its extremely unlikely we'll even be in the running. I'm willing to bet anyone $100 today we won't make the playoffs next year (and I'm a fan / ssh).

If you listen to what TL and RN have said is they're looking to announce the DPs in Jan but its likely that they won't join until the summer window. That means the first half of the year will be exactly what we've been watching now. We have no draft picks so we can't pick up a valuable tool there. Only thing we could do is sign existing guys. And who wants to come to Toronto to play on one of the worst teams in the league year in and out?

[Redcoe15]

I actually, incredibly...BELIEVE that TFC will miss the playoffs again because Lieweke wants to make his own bullshit in 2014.

[Richard]

russell has a green card as reported by Larson so doesn't take up international spot.


Russell has a green card. He's on a pricey salary but other than that I think he's worthwhile to keep around as a squad player.


not an int. he has green card

Thanks guys! As long as he doesn't start and is a good guy in the room then I guess its fine.

[QBall]

I'm not saying that MLSE would sell TFC. I'm saying that MLS would take the franchise away from MLSE and give it to some other city. If nothing brings back the fans, and MLS increases in popularity down in the US, I could see there being a break-even point where MLS would make more money moving TFC somewhere else.

You know, I almost want Lieweke to fail and see MLSE broken and humbled. Almost.

But I'm sure that there are numerous groups within MLS that would love to see this happen considering the number of bridges MLSE has burned over the years.

If MLS hasn't taken Chivas away from their owners, and Chivas isn't even a place in the United States or Canada so is really rooted in nothing, then TFC could have cardboard cutouts of people in the stands and MLS would say "Good job!" Plus now that Bezbechenko, one of MLS' own, is part of TFC management I doubt MLS is even going to glance in TFC's direction any time soon.

[PopePouri]

I don't have hope. I just want to be surprised. I think two decent DP who aren't injury prone being the spine can do a world of wonders.

[notthesun]

How about Wiedeman? I've been on and off on him since his arrival here but he's provided some value recently. Goes to show how much of a boneheaded move it was on Mariner's part to play him in midfield all the time. His hustle is fantastic but he's not just effort; give him a decent chance in the box and he usually finishes.

The way I see things right now, if we sign two starter quality/DP strikers, I'd have Dike as first off the bench and Wiedeman filling in for injuries and cup matches. I'm not sure Earnshaw is in the plans for next year and Wiedeman seems to have played his way into Nelsen's good books (took him forever to even get a look at the start of the season as opposed to now).

[BuSaPuNk]

How about Wiedeman? I've been on and off on him since his arrival here but he's provided some value recently. Goes to show how much of a boneheaded move it was on Mariner's part to play him in midfield all the time. His hustle is fantastic but he's not just effort; give him a decent chance in the box and he usually finishes.

The way I see things right now, if we sign two starter quality/DP strikers, I'd have Dike as first off the bench and Wiedeman filling in for injuries and cup matches. I'm not sure Earnshaw is in the plans for next year and Wiedeman seems to have played his way into Nelsen's good books (took him forever to even get a look at the start of the season as opposed to now).

Greatest Finisher in the modern era for a reason. LMAO

In all seriousness I want Wiedeman and Dike to say if we bring in two or one quality DP striker. Dike can't lineup with him if Earnshaw is gone at the end of the season. If not Earnshaw and DP with Dike first choice off the bench and Wiedeman as a extra or backup and cup player. If we bring two and Earnshaw is still here i'd like Wiedeman and Welshman to get some playing time on loan somewhere.

The big unknown going into thinking of what we need or anything is who if anyone is going out on loan as RN said he was looking to do so. Season long loans? Coming back for preseason? Who knows. There's a few guys on the squad who can do well with getting some soild playing time for full year if we can bring in some bodys to fill in.