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Prof
10-05-2013, 11:04 AM
Dear Mr. Lieweke,

I was at the meet the President breakfast on Saturday but unfortunately I was not able to get my question/comment in to you. I have been a supporter from day one and will always be a supporter because it is the sport I love in the city I love. I applaud you for telling us that winning is your primary goal, but may I suggest with the clout that MLSE has I would also focus on changing the culture of the media in this city. Our baseball team has sucked for over 20 years, spends tons of money and still suck, yet get 40,000 plus fans to a meaningless game. In fact all of their games have been meaningless since July. Why?? because the sports writers in this city are also fans and they promote the team constantly in their reports, headlines etc. We have very minimal coverage and when we do get it is always extremely negative. If I was the President I would not let Cathal Kelly anywhere near TFC, he is the worst thing for this club. We need daily coverage of the team, player profiles, reports of all other MLS games going and big news items constantly in the papers, on TV and on the radio. Rogers/Bell own too many television, radio, and print media outlets for this not to happen. If they can sell hope for a hockey team that hasn't done anything for 50 years, a baseball team for 20 years and a basketball for 15 years surely they can promote, write an encouraging article when they win such as on Saturday and stop bashing our beloved TFC.

Thank you

jimiv
10-05-2013, 11:19 AM
Hear hear!!!

It drives me nuts hearing the Fan590's constant bashing of soccer in general and any chance they get to talk about how awful TFC is they jump at. Yet, no matter what time of year it is, if a Leaf player takes a dump we get round the clock coverage.

Shakes McQueen
10-05-2013, 11:47 AM
Change the team's "culture" with the media, by running a more professional organization, and interacting with more transparency. Don't change it by flexing your muscles to get more astroturfers in the media, and by shutting out prominent critics - even if you think their criticism is unfair.

Negative press isn't the problem - it's a symptom.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
10-05-2013, 11:50 AM
Hear hear!!!

It drives me nuts hearing the Fan590's constant bashing of soccer in general and any chance they get to talk about how awful TFC is they jump at. Yet, no matter what time of year it is, if a Leaf player takes a dump we get round the clock coverage.

You get round the clock coverage, because hockey is the #1 sport in this country, and MLS soccer is a distant 4th or 5th. The Leafs also get ample negative attention every year, in the form of fair (and unfair) criticism.

Also, no one except Bob McCown "bashes" soccer routinely on the FAN 590, and he does it with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek most of the time.

- Scott

Red CB Toronto
10-05-2013, 01:58 PM
Kurt Larson and the Toronto Sun have given the Reds great coverage through the season.

pdubs
10-05-2013, 02:10 PM
Kurt Larson and the Toronto Sun have given the Reds great coverage through the season.

agreed. he doesn't seem to bash them endlessly and is providing good coverage despite the roller coaster this team is on.

OgtheDim
10-05-2013, 02:33 PM
Neil Davidson is doing a good job too.


Kelly will not be shut up from his cynicism until TFC wins the title.


On another note, I think John Malinaro is done with TFC, after his twitter tirades against Nelsen. Objectivity seems to have gone out the window. He might as well be one of the bots that keeps tweeting the whole #firepayneandnelsen schtick that somebody is paying for.

Auzzy
10-05-2013, 02:36 PM
I hope you spelled Tim Leiweke's name correctly in you actual letter!

flatpicker
10-05-2013, 03:38 PM
A roof will fix everything.

;)

__wowza
10-05-2013, 04:37 PM
Kurt Larson and the Toronto Sun have given the Reds great coverage through the season.

larson is one of the better sports writers i've seen, we're actually pretty lucky to have him covering the team. no insult intended, but his writing is more akin to a professional blog than it is to a sports writer for a major paper. it's raw, but polished. he's able to provide a new take on the same consistent problems every time i read one of his recaps. the flip side of this is kelly, who routinely stresses "and here i thought it couldn't get worse.." before breaking out a thesaurus and rehashing something he'd written a week/month prior.

i think it just depends on your perspective.

larson's articles always contain a tinge of hope, something that resonates with a lot of us here.
kelly's articles are more of the view of the cynical supporter, if they sound the same, it's because the club hasn't changed.

reading the latter just reminds me of all the supporters who complain about the team all the time. it comes from a place of love, but it gets a tad repetitive. i think the major thing that puts me off about reading cathal kelly's articles is that for the most part, he just doesn't sound like he cares anymore, which again, is more in line with a lot of the cynical supporters.

Hitcho
10-07-2013, 10:15 AM
Dear Tim:

Please also start listening to the voices saying we don't want or need retiring mega stars to come in and fix this team for a year or two. It won't work. This is not LA. And can you really see Ryan Nelsen, a coach with all of 6 months' experience in the dugout behind him, being taken seriously by such players or fairly expect Ryan to know how to handle them? We are not a fame hungry city drunk on celebrity status. Beckham was jeered, not cheered, when he came here. Know your environment and know your target market.

Instead, please focus on building a solid, stable squad with strength in depth and a sprinkling of key players rather than an unbalanced side with one or two alleged DP stars and a dearth of talent and cover in other areas as the inevitable result.

Many fans (genuine fans, not occasional day trip families that may come to the first couple of games to see some big name DPs and then never show up again) are on their last legs with this franchise. Please don't kill it off completely by bringing in players on astronomical DP wages that MLSe will expect the fans to pay for the following year by implementing massive hikes in ticket pricing. That may well be the final straw for a lot of people.

Please wake up to the city you are in and the fan base you have inherited.

Thank you.

inheavensince07
10-08-2013, 10:14 AM
Neil Davidson is doing a good job too.


Kelly will not be shut up from his cynicism until TFC wins the title.


On another note, I think John Malinaro is done with TFC, after his twitter tirades against Nelsen. Objectivity seems to have gone out the window. He might as well be one of the bots that keeps tweeting the whole #firepayneandnelsen schtick that somebody is paying for.


correct me if I am wrong but isn't what Molinaro did inexcusable for a journalist ??

Super
10-08-2013, 10:23 AM
correct me if I am wrong but isn't what Molinaro did inexcusable for a journalist ??

I certainly don't think so. Nelsen still has a lot to prove, and personally I think it's the media's job to ask the right questions. Why we keep hiring newbies and expect different results is a puzzle to me, and I'm for one thankful that we have a bit of honesty in the media through Molinaro who puts the club to task over its strategy - and why they decided to hang on to a coach who honestly haven't proven anything this season. We're not really improved. We're only considered better because we managed to get rid of some bad contracts - and this was actually done by Payne who got sacked.

Having said that, Nelsen MAY prove to be a success down the line, but to say it was not risky to sign a rookie coach is dishonest. It's a HUGE risk. And after 7 years of failure I'm not sure we need to be taking more risks on unproven rookie coaches. Leiweke chose to risk the house on a second season of Nelsen - even though he did nothing to deserve the chance. However, Leiweke will look brilliant if Nelsen manages to turn this club around, but if Nelsen fails, well, then that says a lot about Leiweke, and quite frankly he'll be put in the same category as any of the other failed managers of this club (Anselmi, etc).

Super
10-08-2013, 10:33 AM
A roof will fix everything.

;)

It will fix the atmosphere.

Pint
10-08-2013, 10:39 AM
Molinaros comment of "i would rather be reporting on the impact" has really turned me against him. I believe he made it on twitter when montreal had a CCL game at home but he was in toronto covering one of our games.

Well john if you would rather be reporting on them then please GTFO.

Richard
10-08-2013, 11:46 AM
Molinaros comment of "i would rather be reporting on the impact" has really turned me against him. I believe he made it on twitter when montreal had a CCL game at home but he was in toronto covering one of our games.

Well john if you would rather be reporting on them then please GTFO.

I dont know what was said but i wouldnt hold the comment against him.

How would you feel as a journo covering a shit team like tfc for 7 years?

Sure you can write more about the bad stuff but it really does take a toll on someone.

Pint
10-08-2013, 12:05 PM
I dont know what was said but i wouldnt hold the comment against him.

How would you feel as a journo covering a shit team like tfc for 7 years?

Sure you can write more about the bad stuff but it really does take a toll on someone.

I don't doubt it is hard covering a team like us for 7 years but I expect professionalism. If you don't want to cover TFC anymore twitter is not the place to be saying you want to cover our rival instead, go to your manager and hand in your resignation and then make the move if you can. Getting paid to cover training and games and then writting up a column is not a bad way to making a good living... if he doesn't like it i'm sure many other would take his job from him.

Suds
10-08-2013, 12:10 PM
Dear Tim:

Please also start listening to the voices saying we don't want or need retiring mega stars to come in and fix this team for a year or two. It won't work. This is not LA. And can you really see Ryan Nelsen, a coach with all of 6 months' experience in the dugout behind him, being taken seriously by such players or fairly expect Ryan to know how to handle them? We are not a fame hungry city drunk on celebrity status. Beckham was jeered, not cheered, when he came here. Know your environment and know your target market.

Instead, please focus on building a solid, stable squad with strength in depth and a sprinkling of key players rather than an unbalanced side with one or two alleged DP stars and a dearth of talent and cover in other areas as the inevitable result.

Many fans (genuine fans, not occasional day trip families that may come to the first couple of games to see some big name DPs and then never show up again) are on their last legs with this franchise. Please don't kill it off completely by bringing in players on astronomical DP wages that MLSe will expect the fans to pay for the following year by implementing massive hikes in ticket pricing. That may well be the final straw for a lot of people.

Please wake up to the city you are in and the fan base you have inherited.

Thank you.

Amen, brother. I don't need TFC to sign a big name underwear model who can kick a ball to get me out to the games ...

unless she is seated in Sec 131 F Row 2 Seat 15 :-)

Seriously though. I think the fans in this town are more about substance than flash. Put out a team that wins, even if it's ugly, and Torontonians will get behind it. This is not LA. The fans are already here. What they want is a winner to support - not a brand name.

Start selling this to casuals and soccer moms and you have to sell each seat 18 times. Get back to the supporters and you'll only have to sell that seat once. They'll buy the season seat.

cmonyoureds
10-08-2013, 12:20 PM
Dear Tim,

I hope you take a good, long, look at the game day pics posted in other threads. I hope you realize just exactly where the fan base is that pays the bills through the tough times.

I also hope that you realize there were many, many, others that held out for 4, 5, and 6 years before throwing in the towel, for various reasons. Winning them back will be difficult given the legacy of customer abuse you need to address. I wonder if you have the guts and effort to do so.

Lastly, winning may fill many of those seats again. You need to ask yourself, however, how confident you are of being able to build a perennial winner to keep those seats full. If you submit to a moment of reality, I would urge you to consider my first point.

Sincerely,

A former ticket package holder.

Ivy
10-08-2013, 12:21 PM
Molinaro is slowly burning his bridges - don't think the club isn't hearing what he's saying. I mentioned this earlier this year, that it seems to me that Molinaro has lost his sources at TFC and is not providing any new info, only slowly turning into Rollins.

Phil
10-08-2013, 12:31 PM
I cant make this stuff up...

MLS Transfers ‏@MLSTransfers 9m Source also says offer for #Klose this summer wasn't from Montreal but "another Canadian team". #TFC #MLS

Yohan
10-08-2013, 12:49 PM
I cant make this stuff up...

MLS Transfers ‏@MLSTransfers 9m Source also says offer for #Klose this summer wasn't from Montreal but "another Canadian team". #TFC #MLS
so... Vancouver :p

ensco
10-08-2013, 01:00 PM
This cannot be true. Anybody who thinks Klose was coming to MLS this season isn't even bothering to read the newspapers.

Germany has a serious lack of depth at striker, and it's a big opportunity for Klose. Had a look at the top 10 strikers in the Bundesliga last year? 8 or 9 of them were non-Germans.

Klose would never have agreed to play non-top-flight football this year, no matter what he was paid. He's not just going to Brazil, he is going to get serious minutes. Maybe even start.

Phil
10-08-2013, 01:04 PM
sorry to derail this one, it just made me laugh reading the name and linking it to the DP 'plan'.

Apparently post 2014 world cup is the target time.

ag futbol
10-08-2013, 01:07 PM
I certainly don't think so. Nelsen still has a lot to prove, and personally I think it's the media's job to ask the right questions. Why we keep hiring newbies and expect different results is a puzzle to me, and I'm for one thankful that we have a bit of honesty in the media through Molinaro who puts the club to task over its strategy - and why they decided to hang on to a coach who honestly haven't proven anything this season. We're not really improved. We're only considered better because we managed to get rid of some bad contracts - and this was actually done by Payne who got sacked.

Having said that, Nelsen MAY prove to be a success down the line, but to say it was not risky to sign a rookie coach is dishonest. It's a HUGE risk. And after 7 years of failure I'm not sure we need to be taking more risks on unproven rookie coaches. Leiweke chose to risk the house on a second season of Nelsen - even though he did nothing to deserve the chance. However, Leiweke will look brilliant if Nelsen manages to turn this club around, but if Nelsen fails, well, then that says a lot about Leiweke, and quite frankly he'll be put in the same category as any of the other failed managers of this club (Anselmi, etc).
I haven't seen any of the tirades, but his criticism of Nelsen has been very blunt. Probably not making him much of a popular figure with the TFC staff.

For the record I agree with almost all of what I've seen him write on the subject.

Phil
10-08-2013, 01:11 PM
Molinaro is slowly burning his bridges - don't think the club isn't hearing what he's saying. I mentioned this earlier this year, that it seems to me that Molinaro has lost his sources at TFC and is not providing any new info, only slowly turning into Rollins.

Everyone lost sources with the last cleanse. Hence why some of the stories that were kept burried are bubling to the surface.

Super
10-08-2013, 01:39 PM
I haven't seen any of the tirades, but his criticism of Nelsen has been very blunt. Probably not making him much of a popular figure with the TFC staff.

For the record I agree with almost all of what I've seen him write on the subject.

Yup - I agree with him as well. Get used to it! Payne may be gone, but we still have management with ZERO respect for the journos or the fans. Simple as that. If it were up to TFC the only reporters following TFC would be on MLSE's payroll.

Ivy
10-08-2013, 02:29 PM
Yup - I agree with him as well. Get used to it! Payne may be gone, but we still have management with ZERO respect for the journos or the fans. Simple as that. If it were up to TFC the only reporters following TFC would be on MLSE's payroll.
Why do you say that? As a fan, I feel like I've been treated good by TFC - other than the on field product.

inheavensince07
10-08-2013, 03:21 PM
Yup - I agree with him as well. Get used to it! Payne may be gone, but we still have management with ZERO respect for the journos or the fans. Simple as that. If it were up to TFC the only reporters following TFC would be on MLSE's payroll.


I couldn't agree with you more .. Gol tv allday everyday lol

v00d00daddy
10-08-2013, 03:40 PM
Why do you say that? As a fan, I feel like I've been treated good by TFC - other than the on field product.

It bothers you that Molinaro is sick of TFC but it doesn't bother you that Nelsen comes out and says that people who have given up seasons tickets should be made to pay double if they ever want them back?

That's a pure fuckhead comment. That he even has the balls to say something like that and still gets supported is shocking. I've lost almost all interest in TFC and I'm going to chalk it up to years of futility first and foremost.

But Ryan Nelsen and his garbage "pedigree"......love for shitty football and absolute disregard for fans is probably the straw that broke this camels back.

He's an embarrassment to the entire club...and that's a hard thing to be with this clubs past.

Pint
10-08-2013, 03:41 PM
Aren't most of these guys on MLSE payroll already? Bogers owns nearly everything including the papers do they not?

Super
10-08-2013, 04:10 PM
Why do you say that? As a fan, I feel like I've been treated good by TFC - other than the on field product.

Absolutely not! However, I have to admit that I was spoiled growing up in Denmark, in Aalborg, where the media is independent from the club, and where the club answers to questions from media and fans on a daily basis. There is no hiding from the media, or selecting what questions to answer, or telling fans to get used to it. Try that line on fans there and see what happens! You'll be gone the next day - or risk facing an empty stadium, and perhaps a few slashed tires as well. Honestly, as far as I see it, TFC is run by a group of absolute idiots with little knowledge or interest in taking care of its fans. Ask Bobby Brizzo what it was like to work at TFC for the few months they gave him. It was all a big joke to them. Look who they hired instead? Rachel Bonnetta. Yup - Rachel Bonnetta! Have you seen her videos? She thinks she's on MTV. Honestly, this is all a big joke to these people. NO respect for supporters, NONE!

As far as I'm concerned I've yet to see a SINGLE move on TFC's part to please supporters - at least that wasn't motivated by us pushing for it first. And now we can't even have proper journalists ask them hard questions? When Nelsen said that anyone who gives up their tickets should pay double to get them back, I'd have him fired the very next second. Nelsen's answer should have been: "I'm sorry he felt the need to give up his tickets, but we hope to be able to win back his confidence." That's how you deal with it. But whatever, let Nelsen try and prove himself on the field then. Let's see how good the man is. No more excuses from this point and onwards. But my confidence in him, Leiweke, or TFC in general is ZERO! Hope is long gone! I'm not hearing ANY of the right things coming out of this club either. We seem to have no direction. However, I am encouraged by the talk of a roof. But again, why did it take them so long? We've been talking about a roof since day one. 7 years it took them to START talking about it? Ah well. IF we get it it will go a long way to making me feel at least slightly appreciated as a supporter of this club. Would be a start.

inheavensince07
10-08-2013, 04:11 PM
It bothers you that Molinaro is sick of TFC but it doesn't bother you that Nelsen comes out and says that people who have given up seasons tickets should be made to pay double if they ever want them back?

That's a pure fuckhead comment. That he even has the balls to say something like that and still gets supported is shocking. I've lost almost all interest in TFC and I'm going to chalk it up to years of futility first and foremost.

But Ryan Nelsen and his garbage "pedigree"......love for shitty football and absolute disregard for fans is probably the straw that broke this camels back.

He's an embarrassment to the entire club...and that's a hard thing to be with this clubs past.



Amennnn to that ...

inheavensince07
10-08-2013, 04:17 PM
Absolutely not! However, I have to admit that I was spoiled growing up in Denmark, in Aalborg, where the media is independent from the club, and where the club answers to questions from media and fans on a daily basis. There is no hiding from the media, or selecting what questions to answer, or telling fans to get used to it. Try that line on fans there and see what happens! You'll be gone the next day - or risk facing an empty stadium, and perhaps a few slashed tires as well. Honestly, as far as I see it, TFC is run by a group of absolute idiots with little knowledge or interest in taking care of its fans. Ask Bobby Brizzo what it was like to work at TFC for the few months they gave him. It was all a big joke to them. Look who they hired instead? Rachel Bonnetta. Yup - Rachel Bonnetta! Have you seen her videos? She thinks she's on MTV. Honestly, this is all a big joke to these people. NO respect for supporters, NONE!

As far as I'm concerned I've yet to see a SINGLE move on TFC's part to please supporters - at least that wasn't motivated by us pushing for it first. And now we can't even have proper journalists ask them hard questions? When Nelsen said that anyone who gives up their tickets should pay double to get them back, I'd have him fired the very next second. Nelsen's answer should have been: "I'm sorry he felt the need to give up his tickets, but we hope to be able to win back his confidence." That's how you deal with it. But whatever, let Nelsen try and prove himself on the field then. Let's see how good the man is. No more excuses from this point and onwards. But my confidence in him, Leiweke, or TFC in general is ZERO! Hope is long gone! I'm not hearing ANY of the right things coming out of this club either. We seem to have no direction. However, I am encouraged by the talk of a roof. IF we get it it will go a long way to making me feel at least slightly appreciated as a supporter of this club. Would be a good start.


I friggin love these two paragraphs and could not agree more if I tried .. lol on the roof part tho .. They probably want a roof so they can rent out the name for it and make more money .. It will not be for the supporters you can bet your life on that ..

what happened to B Briz anyways?? did they let him go ? The MTV girl omg how on earth can that promote a team .. its so embarrassing to put that shit out there .

Ivy
10-08-2013, 04:21 PM
This isn't Europe, I'm from there, I know. Football is a family event here.

Let me know when any team, in any sport, in any league in North America faces REAL questions or has to deal with dangerous supporters, who will fight, burn, march, and disable entire neighborhoods when they are not happy - not cry about it on a supporters forum cuz you thought that when Nelsen said SSH should be made to pay double, he was actually serious.

spark
10-08-2013, 04:22 PM
what happened to B Briz anyways?? did they let him go ? The MTV girl omg how on earth can that promote a team .. its so embarrassing to put that shit out there .

Personally I find getting informed about the weather and kick off time high level reporting and am looking forward to it every week and into 2014.

Yohan
10-08-2013, 04:22 PM
It bothers you that Molinaro is sick of TFC but it doesn't bother you that Nelsen comes out and says that people who have given up seasons tickets should be made to pay double if they ever want them back?

That's a pure fuckhead comment. That he even has the balls to say something like that and still gets supported is shocking. I've lost almost all interest in TFC and I'm going to chalk it up to years of futility first and foremost.

But Ryan Nelsen and his garbage "pedigree"......love for shitty football and absolute disregard for fans is probably the straw that broke this camels back.

He's an embarrassment to the entire club...and that's a hard thing to be with this clubs past.
Note to Nelsen,

Nobody related to TFC has any sense of humour, esp your Kiwi-Brit sarcastic ones! You'll get lynched!

JonO
10-08-2013, 04:29 PM
It bothers you that Molinaro is sick of TFC but it doesn't bother you that Nelsen comes out and says that people who have given up seasons tickets should be made to pay double if they ever want them back?
I still can't believe how much attention that statement is getting. Most journos in attendance said that the comment was tongue-in-cheek and didn't come across well in print. This includes Molinaro, who we know is not a fan of Nelsen. There are many valid criticisms of Nelsen, but I don't think that an absolute disregard for the fans is one of them.

JonO
10-08-2013, 04:37 PM
Ask Bobby Brizzo what it was like to work at TFC for the few months they gave him. It was all a big joke to them. Look who they hired instead? Rachel Bonnetta. Yup - Rachel Bonnetta! Have you seen her videos? She thinks she's on MTV. Honestly, this is all a big joke to these people. NO respect for supporters, NONE!

Honestly I don't get the hate for Rachel. She's a "brand ambassador" or whatever her official title is now. Sure, they probably should have tried to hire someone with a little more knowledge of the game, but that's not what the position is about. I actually think she is quite good at what she does (although there's always room for improvement ;) ). Remember that the vast majority of fans and season ticket holders are not "supporters". Not everything TFC does has to be for the supporters.

Don't get me wrong. I am not necessarily saying that the relationship between the club and the supporters is peachy - just that not everything the club does is going to be for us...

Richard
10-08-2013, 04:59 PM
Note to Nelsen,

Nobody related to TFC has any sense of humour, esp your Kiwi-Brit sarcastic ones! You'll get lynched!

You know I would tend to agree but this is TFC. One look at the history and the mental state of everybody involved is enough for me to not even joke about such things.

It comes off as insensitive given TFC has not given much in return.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-08-2013, 05:01 PM
This cannot be true. Anybody who thinks Klose was coming to MLS this season isn't even bothering to read the newspapers.

Germany has a serious lack of depth at striker, and it's a big opportunity for Klose. Had a look at the top 10 strikers in the Bundesliga last year? 8 or 9 of them were non-Germans.

Klose would never have agreed to play non-top-flight football this year, no matter what he was paid. He's not just going to Brazil, he is going to get serious minutes. Maybe even start.

For the most part true, a couple of young strikers on the up and coming (Max Kruse for one), that being said Lowe prefers to go with what he knows and that is most likely Klose. Gomez although with a decent record is still for the most part unproven on a national level and I dont see Lowe taking any gambles on younger unproven players.
I love the dude, prob one of hte classiest/best players to pull on a Werder jersey. That being said he isnt getting younger and lost half a season (if i remember correctly) recently to injuries. Not hte type of player we need. We need someone of his calibre without the history of injuries

inheavensince07
10-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Honestly I don't get the hate for Rachel. She's a "brand ambassador" or whatever her official title is now. Sure, they probably should have tried to hire someone with a little more knowledge of the game, but that's not what the position is about. I actually think she is quite good at what she does (although there's always room for improvement ;) ). Remember that the vast majority of fans and season ticket holders are not "supporters". Not everything TFC does has to be for the supporters.

Don't get me wrong. I am not necessarily saying that the relationship between the club and the supporters is peachy - just that not everything the club does is going to be for us...


There cannot be a single person that honestly thinks she is boosting the brand .. Not everything is for supporters agreed but come on dude .. I can do a better job then her or any other man woman or ape that they have doing rinky dinky shite like that ..
I feel she degrades the brand personally , whata joke

Ossington Mental Youth
10-08-2013, 05:04 PM
as for Molinaro, i dont blame him for sayign the team is shit. I am tired on the other hand of hearing about how great Montreal is

Richard
10-08-2013, 05:05 PM
Back to the topic of letters.

Here is David Miller's to TFC management. This would have been an epic thread have the boards not gone down.


Dear Sirs:

TFC Management Changes

I am writing because I believe that the recent management changes at TFC, and your president’s comments on football/artificial turf, have seriously jeopardized the future of this club. From the moment Coach Cummins was allowed to leave, the team has jumped each year from one playing vision to its opposite, thereby preventing on field progress. At the same time, the experience of the supporters has declined – together with their passion. This is amply demonstrated by the fact that it is now necessary to have someone sing the national anthem, when previously supporters sang O Canada themselves, unaided.

Since the failed hiring of Preki as its coach, the club has desperately needed stability. Hiring an experienced and high level President/GM, only to fire him a few months later, is exactly the opposite of what is needed. It was either wrong to hire Mr. Payne, to fire him, or both. Similarly, either pursuing a skilled young player like Urruti for two years was wrong, trading him three weeks after acquisition was wrong – or both.

Here is my advice:

•Stabilize the management. Change simply has to stop – this is the last chance to get it right.

•Stabilize the team. Today, there are at least signs of passion and hard work on the pitch. Build on that with selective change. Don’t start over.

•Stabilize the experience. End the speculation about the Argonauts CFL team coming to BMO. Mr. Leiweke’s suggestion that they might, and the necessary implication that they would play on artificial turf, was the wrong thing to say, at this time in particular. You risk losing the most committed supporters of TFC if the venue is changed to accommodate Canadian football, particularly if turf returns.

As you know, I have been an ardent supporter of TFC since you and MLSE first had the vision to bring Major League Soccer to Toronto. I have supported the team through thick and thin, defended management, was one of the first season ticket holders, and, in my former capacity, was instrumental in building the stadium and supporting its conversion to grass.

I am so frustrated with the latest management missteps that I am returning the remainder of my season tickets to you: it is the only way I can emphasize how serious the situation is for those of us who support TFC. Please donate them to an appropriate cause.

There once was magic at BMO Field. The latest reshuffle has made the possibility of that magic returning almost certainly disappear.

David Miller

ag futbol
10-08-2013, 05:35 PM
I still can't believe how much attention that statement is getting. Most journos in attendance said that the comment was tongue-in-cheek and didn't come across well in print. This includes Molinaro, who we know is not a fan of Nelsen. There are many valid criticisms of Nelsen, but I don't think that an absolute disregard for the fans is one of them.
It was just a dumb comment to make given the situation. I know it wasn't a full on serious comment, but it wasn't a complete joke either. He never fully acknowledged the concerns in Millers letter and just continued the party line of "wait until January".

He doesn't seem to get the level of crap we've put up with around here and the number of "next transfer window we''ll get it done" promises that have been made. He made some of those himself at the beginning of the year, you'd think he'd start to catch on.

Yohan
10-08-2013, 05:39 PM
For the most part true, a couple of young strikers on the up and coming (Max Kruse for one), that being said Lowe prefers to go with what he knows and that is most likely Klose. Gomez although with a decent record is still for the most part unproven on a national level and I dont see Lowe taking any gambles on younger unproven players.
I love the dude, prob one of hte classiest/best players to pull on a Werder jersey. That being said he isnt getting younger and lost half a season (if i remember correctly) recently to injuries. Not hte type of player we need. We need someone of his calibre without the history of injuries
Marco Reus ftw.

Super
10-08-2013, 05:55 PM
what happened to B Briz anyways?? did they let him go ? The MTV girl omg how on earth can that promote a team .. its so embarrassing to put that shit out there .

If you frequent the Duke (U-Sector pub) you'll see him there. I've talked to him a few times about this, and actually spoke to him just a few days after he was let go. Basically he was pretty clear about why he was hired - as he found out pretty fast when there: hire him to shut up the supporters, but Rachel is actually the real choice of ours. Again: massive disrespect to ALL supporters/fans of this club.


Honestly I don't get the hate for Rachel. She's a "brand ambassador" or whatever her official title is now. Sure, they probably should have tried to hire someone with a little more knowledge of the game, but that's not what the position is about. I actually think she is quite good at what she does (although there's always room for improvement ;) ). Remember that the vast majority of fans and season ticket holders are not "supporters". Not everything TFC does has to be for the supporters.

Don't get me wrong. I am not necessarily saying that the relationship between the club and the supporters is peachy - just that not everything the club does is going to be for us...

I have no issue with Rachel, the person, but she's not the right choice for this club. Don't forget: they built the brand of TFC on supporters. On the atmosphere. Instead they've done nothing but piss us all off from day one. Rachel is pure fluff, zero football knowledge of passion, and is really only there because she wants a career in front of the camera. It's pure fluff! I want someone who knows the game inside and out. Someone who is truly passionate about the sport, and someone who actually moves in supporter circles, travels, and has a real history with the team from day one. Don't forget, he's one of our most popular capos.

People can say what they want about supporters demanding this and that, but don't forget that, again, they built the house on the shoulders of the atmosphere created by the supporters. Now that the atmosphere is gone, so are the crowds. No wonder. ANY big club in the world puts supporters at #1. They'll be there WELL past any of the people who go to a few games here or there, and certainly any of the players, coaches, or managers. The supporters ARE the club. So treat them with respect.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-08-2013, 07:22 PM
Marco Reus ftw.
definitely a solid player but not really an out and out striker like Gomez or Klose (or Kruse for that matter)

JayMolly
10-08-2013, 08:18 PM
Back to the topic of letters.

Here is David Miller's to TFC management. This would have been an epic thread have the boards not gone down.

This was one of his comments in his letter . . . "I am so frustrated with the latest management missteps that I am returning the remainder of my season tickets to you: it is the only way I can emphasize how serious the situation is for those of us who support TFC. Please donate them to an appropriate cause".

What we find is funny - ha, ha, is . . . . David Miller was at the D.C. game on September 28.

If you want to make a statement and give your tickets back David, then stay away from BMO and TFC!!!!

Yohan
10-08-2013, 08:20 PM
definitely a solid player but not really an out and out striker like Gomez or Klose (or Kruse for that matter)
I think Loew might be tempted to do the abomination 4-6-0 formation... hell, if Sam Allardyce can do it, so can Loew :p

inheavensince07
10-08-2013, 08:46 PM
This was one of his comments in his letter . . . "I am so frustrated with the latest management missteps that I am returning the remainder of my season tickets to you: it is the only way I can emphasize how serious the situation is for those of us who support TFC. Please donate them to an appropriate cause".

What we find is funny - ha, ha, is . . . . David Miller was at the D.C. game on September 28.



If you want to make a statement and give your tickets back David, then stay away from BMO and TFC!!!!



haha lol r u kidding me ?? he just lost all credibility

Yagbod
10-08-2013, 09:30 PM
This was one of his comments in his letter . . . "I am so frustrated with the latest management missteps that I am returning the remainder of my season tickets to you: it is the only way I can emphasize how serious the situation is for those of us who support TFC. Please donate them to an appropriate cause".

What we find is funny - ha, ha, is . . . . David Miller was at the D.C. game on September 28.

If you want to make a statement and give your tickets back David, then stay away from BMO and TFC!!!!



He was asked about that at that game. Apparently he was embarrassed but was there with members of his foundation at some pre-statement arranged event. He had to go as part of the foundation duties. Just throwing that out there.

DOMIN8R
10-08-2013, 09:49 PM
This was one of his comments in his letter . . . "I am so frustrated with the latest management missteps that I am returning the remainder of my season tickets to you: it is the only way I can emphasize how serious the situation is for those of us who support TFC. Please donate them to an appropriate cause".

What we find is funny - ha, ha, is . . . . David Miller was at the D.C. game on September 28.

If you want to make a statement and give your tickets back David, then stay away from BMO and TFC!!!!



I think that you are making assumptions and may be looking for holes rather than taking the message at face value. Just saying.

DOMIN8R
10-08-2013, 09:56 PM
I still can't believe how much attention that statement is getting. Most journos in attendance said that the comment was tongue-in-cheek and didn't come across well in print. This includes Molinaro, who we know is not a fan of Nelsen. There are many valid criticisms of Nelsen, but I don't think that an absolute disregard for the fans is one of them.

You know - I never considered this. I was one of those who got my gitch in a knot when I read this. Given DM's history with the club, I was incensed when I read Nelson's comments. But perhaps I took it out of context.

Thanks for the insight. I'll holster my gun. :leaving:

Ossington Mental Youth
10-08-2013, 10:37 PM
I think Loew might be tempted to do the abomination 4-6-0 formation... hell, if Sam Allardyce can do it, so can Loew :p

Hahahahaha yeah false 9 isn't out of the question

Auzzy
10-08-2013, 11:30 PM
This was one of his comments in his letter . . . "I am so frustrated with the latest management missteps that I am returning the remainder of my season tickets to you: it is the only way I can emphasize how serious the situation is for those of us who support TFC. Please donate them to an appropriate cause".

What we find is funny - ha, ha, is . . . . David Miller was at the D.C. game on September 28.

If you want to make a statement and give your tickets back David, then stay away from BMO and TFC!!!!




haha lol r u kidding me ?? he just lost all credibility


Here's the info, no need to get shorts in a knot:


As a statement of his conviction, Miller mailed the club his remaining stock of season tickets, of which he said he has purchased four a game annually since the club’s inception in 2007. He actually planned to be present at Wednesday night’s home game; he’d previously donated his tickets (section 227, face value $41.75 apiece) to a charity auction and made a promise to attend with the winning bidder.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2013/09/11/david_miller_rips_tfc_dawn_of_a_new_era_or_the_end _of_one_feschuk.html

He attended this game with the winner of the charity auction, as promised to the charity. He returned his four tickets for the 3 remaining home games to the club.

ensco
10-09-2013, 05:33 AM
Yeah, we should have more discussion's of David Miller's "credibility" about TFC on this board, since we have so many noteworthy and credible public figures willing to take up our cause....

Anybody calling out Miller is out of his effing mind. The guy spent 10 years working on this team/stadium. He, along with several other city councillors, are the individuals most responsible for TFC's existence. Not MLSE.

I didn't agree with his analysis (Cummins? really?) but he lent his name and gave voice to the pointless/helpless cause that is supporting TFC has become.

The balance between profit motive and the altruistic side of sports is completely out of whack, and getting worse fast. Leiweke appears ready to push the Argos into TFC's stadium solely because there is money in it.

(Digression rant about money and sports - While we are at it: the BMO branding is kind of a symbol for me of how the profit motive has gotten out of balance. How could TFC allow BMO to slap their logo on the Impact? why does a TFC broadcast feel like a nonstop BMO infomercial? I actually know some fine people who work at BMO, I'm not making a bigger point, but I'm tired of getting that brand jammed in my face in all things TFC. The stadium should be named after Miller, nb I never voted for the guy, this is not a political discussion. Maybe I should start a thread where we have a poll on that - should we here call it Miller Field, not "some stupid bank field"?)

That letter belongs on the wall of fame of this site. It was an amazing cri de coeur. Period.

Huyton
10-09-2013, 06:07 AM
Considering how much money is made from naming rights to a stadium, I doubt a name change for the entire place will be possible.

However, re-naming the south stand might work.

inheavensince07
10-09-2013, 07:33 AM
Here's the info, no need to get shorts in a knot:



http://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2013/09/11/david_miller_rips_tfc_dawn_of_a_new_era_or_the_end _of_one_feschuk.html

He attended this game with the winner of the charity auction, as promised to the charity. He returned his four tickets for the 3 remaining home games to the club.


ahhh that makes more sense .. Thanks for clarification.. DM is still the man ....

ensco
10-09-2013, 08:01 AM
Considering how much money is made from naming rights to a stadium, I doubt a name change for the entire place will be possible.

However, re-naming the south stand might work.

They'll never stop selling the naming rights. But what has that got to do with us? We can call it TFC Field, or Miller Field, or anything we want.

I'm always amazed that the media go along with this - they are providing advertising without being paid for it!

btw it'll always be Skydome for me.

JonO
10-09-2013, 08:40 AM
It was just a dumb comment to make given the situation. I agree it was not a well thought out comment, but if Molinaro (sorry to keep dragging you into this) says it was a mountain out of a molehill then I tend to believe him. I do think that as supporters we tend to get out feathers ruffled wayyyy to easily. Also, there is not much more Nelsen can say other than wait until January. We all knew this year would be total shit. He has no experience he can point to and say "trust me". That's not his fault, but it is what it is. The roster has been set for a complete overhaul. Now it's time for Nelsen (and Lieweke) to deliver. No excuses.... It is going to be a VERY interesting off-season.


I have no issue with Rachel, the person, but she's not the right choice for this club. Don't forget: they built the brand of TFC on supporters. On the atmosphere. Instead they've done nothing but piss us all off from day one. Rachel is pure fluff, zero football knowledge of passion, and is really only there because she wants a career in front of the camera. It's pure fluff! I want someone who knows the game inside and out. Someone who is truly passionate about the sport, and someone who actually moves in supporter circles, travels, and has a real history with the team from day one. Don't forget, he's one of our most popular capos.
Well a competition was a really stupid way to handle the whole thing. I don't think anyone was surprised with the selection. I would prefer everything you mention as well, but I think TFC got what they wanted. Ideally they should have kept them both as they probably would have complemented each other, but I think the front office was too bloated as it was. No need for the two of them AND Asif.


btw it'll always be Skydome for me.
Wait... it's not Skydome any more? ;)

Canary10
10-09-2013, 08:42 AM
I can actually deal with the team losing. I don't feel I have a "right" to a winning team, and winning is actually quite difficult, even with all the money, smarts, right people, etc.

What kills me is the multitude of purely head-scratching decisions that make everyone (TFC fans and even fans of other teams in our league) say what the fuck are they doing in Toronto? The Urruti trade was one of those to me. Just get some fucking competent leadership that I don't feel embarrassed about, get the team on an even keel, have some sort of identity and team playing style, be serious about football and not all the stupid flash surrounding it, and I'll stay in the seats. If we could win on top of that, great.

That's what I would say in a letter to Lieweke.

Phil
10-09-2013, 08:50 AM
I can actually deal with the team losing. I don't feel I have a "right" to a winning team, and winning is actually quite difficult, even with all the money, smarts, right people, etc.

What kills me is the multitude of purely head-scratching decisions that make everyone (TFC fans and even fans of other teams in our league) say what the fuck are they doing in Toronto? The Urruti trade was one of those to me. Just get some fucking competent leadership that I don't feel embarrassed about, get the team on an even keel, have some sort of identity and team playing style, be serious about football and not all the stupid flash surrounding it, and I'll stay in the seats. If we could win on top of that, great.

That's what I would say in a letter to Lieweke.

I understand the Urruti thing though. Payne leaving on those terms, it seems obvious that TL couldn't run the interference needed to kill the deal as its strings pre dated him and Nelsen obviously didn't want the player nor desire the effort needed to develop him with the type of team and play he envisions. It seems clear that the disagreement was about starting lineups, player selection and growth priorities.

I totally get that a guy like Dike will do better in our system as a strong pressure based striker vs. a finesse guy that needs percise service. The downside is that they were pretty drastic in dealing with the change of direction - Nelsen given the golden 'atta boy', Payne shown the door, Urruti move and Bez hire.

I can only hope that the focus is on stability once they get through this off seasons other decisions - Danny K, Frei and Ecks.

Canary10
10-09-2013, 08:55 AM
I understand the Urruti thing though. Payne leaving on those terms, it seems obvious that TL couldn't run the interference needed to kill the deal as its strings pre dated him and Nelsen obviously didn't want the player nor desire the effort needed to develop him with the type of team and play he envisions. It seems clear that the disagreement was about starting lineups, player selection and growth priorities.

I totally get that a guy like Dike will do better in our system as a strong pressure based striker vs. a finesse guy that needs percise service. The downside is that they were pretty drastic in dealing with the change of direction - Nelsen given the golden 'atta boy', Payne shown the door, Urruti move and Bez hire.

I can only hope that the focus is on stability once they get through this off seasons other decisions - Danny K, Frei and Ecks.

I get that too, but it looks like pure nonsense. It wouldn't have happened in the first place if the club had competent leadership.

ensco
10-09-2013, 09:23 AM
The league should have stopped the Silva deal. If I had to guess, that is what actually got Payne fired.

It just isn't fair to us, what has happened here.

Phil
10-09-2013, 09:31 AM
TL was all over him when talking to me during the RSL game. He said that Silva had gone from the coveted player for every team to a stalled development here in Toronto.

At that point I would question coaching and tactics, but it seemed to be laid at the feet of the player. In a way Ensco is on to something as his sucess in DC highlited the incompetence on Paynes level for not rating the player and sendning him out. It seems clear that Payne was trying to fight Nelsen on starting lineup and team selection.

jloome
10-09-2013, 09:36 AM
Change the team's "culture" with the media, by running a more professional organization, and interacting with more transparency. Don't change it by flexing your muscles to get more astroturfers in the media, and by shutting out prominent critics - even if you think their criticism is unfair.

Negative press isn't the problem - it's a symptom.

- Scott
No, I've worked with NA sports guys for two decades and this is just wrong. They are clearly and systemically biased against soccer and think it's not a North American sport

Yohan
10-09-2013, 09:38 AM
The league should have stopped the Silva deal. If I had to guess, that is what actually got Payne fired.

It just isn't fair to us, what has happened here.
the league isn't going into step in for trades like this. they only get involved for some DP signings and that's about it.

Canary10
10-09-2013, 09:39 AM
TL was all over him when talking to me during the RSL game. He said that Silva had gone from the coveted player for every team to a stalled development here in Toronto.

At that point I would question coaching and tactics, but it seemed to be laid at the feet of the player. In a way Ensco is on to something as his sucess in DC highlited the incompetence on Paynes level for not rating the player and sendning him out. It seems clear that Payne was trying to fight Nelsen on starting lineup and team selection.

How do we know Nelsen was not involved in sending him out? Nelsen never seemed to know where to play him, and looked to have given up on him to me.

BuSaPuNk
10-09-2013, 09:40 AM
TL was all over him when talking to me during the RSL game. He said that Silva had gone from the coveted player for every team to a stalled development here in Toronto.

At that point I would question coaching and tactics, but it seemed to be laid at the feet of the player. In a way Ensco is on to something as his sucess in DC highlited the incompetence on Paynes level for not rating the player and sendning him out. It seems clear that Payne was trying to fight Nelsen on starting lineup and team selection.

I think that is what a lot of the back and forth with TL happened. Think that he really wanted Ryan to have complete control of the players brought in and team selection and I agree with that.

The manger should be bringing in his type of players to play his style of football. Now the only thing that sucks about that is if his style is shit and if he can't get the proper personel in place were right back at square one again.

However it's growing pains with a new coach with little experience. I'm pretty sure if we had a guy with experience like a Bradley or someone we would be more willing to give them the benefit of a year or two.

MartinUtd
10-09-2013, 09:55 AM
Do people actually watch TFC promotional videos? I gave up in 1st year after seeing that 7 year old conducting interviews. Wasn't he some exec's kid too? Just goes to show you how half assed this whole thing has been. I guess MTV is a step up from that, but I'd really like to go in more of a "Street Cents" direction.

ag futbol
10-09-2013, 10:45 AM
The league should have stopped the Silva deal. If I had to guess, that is what actually got Payne fired.

It just isn't fair to us, what has happened here.
You sure about that? I've heard some grumblings about his work ethic and desire to play the AM spot (which we never use).

Could easily see an inexperienced rookie coach saying "I can't work with this guy" and asking for him to be sent away.

We seem to be worshipping the cult of 'hard work' again, of which silva is not a member.

ag futbol
10-09-2013, 10:47 AM
Do people actually watch TFC promotional videos? I gave up in 1st year after seeing that 7 year old conducting interviews. Wasn't he some exec's kid too? Just goes to show you how half assed this whole thing has been. I guess MTV is a step up from that, but I'd really like to go in more of a "Street Cents" direction.
They had one good one for a short time. Who remembers the guy who was jumping out from behind bushes and out of trash cans on queens quay to interview players? It was cliche but extremely funny none the less

tfcleeds
10-09-2013, 01:04 PM
What I find most upsetting, is that this season just feels like a 'lost season', even moreso than any others. We all knew we were going to suck this year, but with Payne and Nelsen(who I had hope in at the beginning) coming in, 2013 was supposed to be the beginning of the rebuild, not next season. Now with TL coming in, Payne being given his walking papers, it's like this past season might as well have not even happened, given we will be at square one once again next season, when we really should have been a quarter or halfway there. Sure, they did some good things, like create much-needed cap room, but that's really about it.

Carts
10-09-2013, 01:21 PM
What I find most upsetting, is that this season just feels like a 'lost season', even moreso than any others. We all knew we were going to suck this year, but with Payne and Nelsen(who I had hope in at the beginning) coming in, 2013 was supposed to be the beginning of the rebuild, not next season. Now with TL coming in, Payne being given his walking papers, it's like this past season might as well have not even happened, given we will be at square one once again next season, when we really should have been a quarter or halfway there. Sure, they did some good things, like create much-needed cap room, but that's really about it.

Agreed...

I mean, "clearing cap room" should be called a Tuesday in January - not the entire 2013 season...

ensco
10-09-2013, 02:15 PM
You sure about that? I've heard some grumblings about his work ethic and desire to play the AM spot (which we never use).

Could easily see an inexperienced rookie coach saying "I can't work with this guy" and asking for him to be sent away.

We seem to be worshipping the cult of 'hard work' again, of which silva is not a member.

I am sure that the Silva trade was the worst, most lopsided trade (in terms of being lopsided at the time of the deal) in the 7 years I have been following MLS. Domestics with flair/talent are so rare/valuable in MLS. Even if Silva winds up being a journeyman, it was lopsided. Even if we had signed Forlan, it was lopsided.

Listen, sometimes a player has to be a target man (ie Koevermans or Saborio). But lots of elite players (eg Messi or Ronaldo or Rooney or Forlan or Donovan) can play multiple positions, and Silva is one of those. Why is that so hard to cope with here?

Yohan
10-09-2013, 02:51 PM
I am sure that the Silva trade was the worst, most lopsided trade (in terms of being lopsided at the time of the deal) in the 7 years I have been following MLS. Domestics with flair/talent are so rare/valuable in MLS. Even if Silva winds up being a journeyman, it was lopsided. Even if we had signed Forlan, it was lopsided.

Listen, sometimes a player has to be a target man (ie Koevermans or Saborio). But lots of elite players (eg Messi or Ronaldo or Rooney or Forlan or Donovan) can play multiple positions, and Silva is one of those. Why is that so hard to cope with here?
clearly you never heard of Cam Weaver for Chris Wondolowski trade ;)

Jamison Olave and Fabian Espindola were traded to NY for allocation also. Will Johnson to Portland for allocation

trades like this happens often in MLS

ManUtd4ever
10-09-2013, 02:51 PM
I am sure that the Silva trade was the worst, most lopsided trade (in terms of being lopsided at the time of the deal) in the 7 years I have been following MLS. Domestics with flair/talent are so rare/valuable in MLS. Even if Silva winds up being a journeyman, it was lopsided. Even if we had signed Forlan, it was lopsided.

Listen, sometimes a player has to be a target man (ie Koevermans or Saborio). But lots of elite players (eg Messi or Ronaldo or Rooney or Forlan or Donovan) can play multiple positions, and Silva is one of those. Why is that so hard to cope with here?

Agreed, or at the very least, it's on par with giving away Sam Cronin for Al Location...

Yohan
10-09-2013, 02:53 PM
Agreed, or at the very least, it's on par with giving away Sam Cronin for Al Location...
or Todd Dunivant for allocation...

ManUtd4ever
10-09-2013, 02:54 PM
or Todd Dunivant for allocation...

Yup. Sigh...

v00d00daddy
10-09-2013, 03:01 PM
Note to Nelsen,

Nobody related to TFC has any sense of humour, esp your Kiwi-Brit sarcastic ones! You'll get lynched!


This isn't Europe, I'm from there, I know. Football is a family event here.

Let me know when any team, in any sport, in any league in North America faces REAL questions or has to deal with dangerous supporters, who will fight, burn, march, and disable entire neighborhoods when they are not happy - not cry about it on a supporters forum cuz you thought that when Nelsen said SSH should be made to pay double, he was actually serious.


I still can't believe how much attention that statement is getting. Most journos in attendance said that the comment was tongue-in-cheek and didn't come across well in print. This includes Molinaro, who we know is not a fan of Nelsen. There are many valid criticisms of Nelsen, but I don't think that an absolute disregard for the fans is one of them.


Fair enough guys. A player (I refuse to call him a coach yet) who was told about a season ticket holder's decision to give up his tickets replies with a tongue in cheek comment about people having to pay double after he makes his super duper January moves and some are happy to accept it as tongue in cheek.

Not me. He has no business being tongue in cheek about anything. His team fucking sucks. His choices suck. He has no resume to rely on from the past...so his answer should have been "well that's his decision. We're working to do better to avoid that kind of thing happening"

I'm sorry. This guy has ZERO to fall back on. The man who gave him the vote of confidence in making him a coach is gone. Nobody find it odd that Nelsen survived that?

This club is fucked from top to bottom. And everywhere in between. It's long overdue that ALL supporters, casuals and hardcores alike, adopt the idea that this club has to put up or shut up.

Nelsen doesn't shut up. He whines about officiating. He promises wonderful change in the near future. He insists that his work and team deserve better and have been unlucky.

The team has 5 wins. Right on pace for the shit they've had for the last 2 years. So we know he's not "putting up" or "shutting up"

But I'm glad some people find it funny. They'll be dancing alone in the southeast corner while security guards and the ballboys outnumber the rest of the people in the stadium if this keeps up.

OgtheDim
10-09-2013, 03:02 PM
Nelsen has to be watched to be understood.

Reading his comments in print or on line doesn't show what he is trying to say.

v00d00daddy
10-09-2013, 03:10 PM
Nelsen has to be watched to be understood.

Reading his comments in print or on line doesn't show what he is trying to say.

I watched him say it on the TFC website. I get that he was "joking". I just don't care to hear his jokes. Especially when I believe that the comment was classic pussy passive aggression. To me he hid the thought of "well people who have had enough of this club can fuck off" in a neat little "tongue in cheek" moment.

Get him alone and a beer in him and I'd bet a bunch load that he genuinely feels that way.

mastermixer
10-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Fair enough guys. A player (I refuse to call him a coach yet) who was told about a season ticket holder's decision to give up his tickets replies with a tongue in cheek comment about people having to pay double after he makes his super duper January moves and some are happy to accept it as tongue in cheek.

Not me. He has no business being tongue in cheek about anything. His team fucking sucks. His choices suck. He has no resume to rely on from the past...so his answer should have been "well that's his decision. We're working to do better to avoid that kind of thing happening"

I'm sorry. This guy has ZERO to fall back on. The man who gave him the vote of confidence in making him a coach is gone. Nobody find it odd that Nelsen survived that?

This club is fucked from top to bottom. And everywhere in between. It's long overdue that ALL supporters, casuals and hardcores alike, adopt the idea that this club has to put up or shut up.

Nelsen doesn't shut up. He whines about officiating. He promises wonderful change in the near future. He insists that his work and team deserve better and have been unlucky.

The team has 5 wins. Right on pace for the shit they've had for the last 2 years. So we know he's not "putting up" or "shutting up"

But I'm glad some people find it funny. They'll be dancing alone in the southeast corner while security guards and the ballboys outnumber the rest of the people in the stadium if this keeps up.

Agree with all of this. I find it unsettling that Nelsen and Lieweke are banking the future of this team on two DP players they haven't signed yet, and more so have not seen play in a TFC jersey yet. It feels like when a poker player goes all in with a shitty hand because they have very little chips left to see if anyone will bite.

ensco
10-09-2013, 03:50 PM
clearly you never heard of Cam Weaver for Chris Wondolowski trade ;)

Jamison Olave and Fabian Espindola were traded to NY for allocation also. Will Johnson to Portland for allocation

trades like this happens often in MLS

Re Wondo, that wasn't nuts at the time of the deal.

Veterans are totally different. Trades for allocation happen all the time for them. Dero was one too, really. Because of the salaries.

But you can't find a deal like the one TFC did for a still highly rated player, making nothing, for allocation. Except maybe Mo's trade for Marvell in 2007, but that was a different league. Cheap, good, domestic talent is the only way, in the current MLS (Montreal is kind of an exception I guess, but the other 9 playoff teams would prove my point)

ag futbol
10-09-2013, 03:52 PM
Nelsen has to be watched to be understood.

Reading his comments in print or on line doesn't show what he is trying to say.
Well I'm not sure where you're going with this one but the impression I get from watching him is he's still got a lot to learn. Doesn't look very comfortable in front of the camera at all. I have never seen him carry a presser from start to finish and come across with a consistent message.

The way he handles his pressers reminds me of the managers with yo-yo prem clubs that consistently fight fruitless battles with other teams that have superior resources. Every day is a crisis, the focus is always the next transfer window, and they are always talking about being aggrieved for whatever reason, usually because they feel they are a small club and don't garner the respect they should.

I'd be interested to hear what you think the message coming from him is because I can't seem to find one beyond the usual "wait for the next transfer window" stuff.

Yohan
10-09-2013, 03:53 PM
Re Wondo, that wasn't nuts at the time of the deal.

Veterans are totally different. Trades for allocation happen all the time for them. Dero was one too, really. Because of the salaries.

But you can't find a deal like the one TFC did for a still highly rated player, making nothing, for allocation. Except maybe Mo's trade for Marvell in 2007!
challenge accepted!

and so simply. Juan Agudelo from Chivas USA to New England this season.

ensco
10-09-2013, 03:59 PM
challenge accepted!

and so simply. Juan Agudelo from Chivas USA to New England this season.

Yeah, you're right, that was bad. He's actually a lot like Silva. League should have stopped that too!

Yohan
10-09-2013, 04:04 PM
Yeah, you're right, that was bad. He's actually a lot like Silva. League should have stopped that too!
except Agudelo is 20, while Silva is 24, soon to be 25. so Silva is more like a journeyman than a prospect. and Agudelo was on final year of his contract

Shakes McQueen
10-09-2013, 05:00 PM
No, I've worked with NA sports guys for two decades and this is just wrong. They are clearly and systemically biased against soccer and think it's not a North American sport

If there was evidence of this specific bias, in specific pieces, that would be different. Just complaining about how "negative" the media is, is not the same. We get bad press because our team sucks, has sucked forever, and because we've been running such a lousy organization, that it's almost become the stuff of legend.

95% of the negative pieces I read or watch, deal exclusively with these facts - just like how the Maple Leafs used to get shit on for their lousy organization, in the heydey of Peddie. The media doesn't exist to manufacture hope and sunshine for us; that job belongs to the team.

- Scott

ensco
10-09-2013, 05:43 PM
except Agudelo is 20, while Silva is 24, soon to be 25. so Silva is more like a journeyman than a prospect. and Agudelo was on final year of his contract

Here you were, proving you know more than almost anyone here about MLS ... and then you call Silva a journeyman.

We'll agree to disagree about that, I guess.

Yohan
10-09-2013, 05:58 PM
Here you were, proving you know more than almost anyone here about MLS ... and then you call Silva a journeyman.

We'll agree to disagree about that, I guess.
ok. journeyman isn't quite the right word, but Silva is no longer a prospect/rookie

jloome
10-09-2013, 06:19 PM
If there was evidence of this specific bias, in specific pieces, that would be different. Just complaining about how "negative" the media is, is not the same. We get bad press because our team sucks, has sucked forever, and because we've been running such a lousy organization, that it's almost become the stuff of legend.

95% of the negative pieces I read or watch, deal exclusively with these facts - just like how the Maple Leafs used to get shit on for their lousy organization, in the heydey of Peddie. The media doesn't exist to manufacture hope and sunshine for us; that job belongs to the team.

- Scott
That's very generous of you, shakes, but I'm whT I'm telling you is that most daily sports reporters I've met - and that's a hell of a lot if them - are open to other reporters about their contempt for soccer. I'm not " reading " that into their work. They openly admit they think soccer is a pussy sport and that "it will never catch on here". I've heard that exact line dozens of times from different sports writers.

generously, one in six like it, one in four tolerate it, and it shows in a structurally biased approach to how they pick angles, ledges and stories.

None if this is helped by tfc being totally shit at PR and content generation, as most sports writers are pretty spoonfed

Richard
10-09-2013, 06:39 PM
That's very generous of you, shakes, but I'm whT I'm telling you is that most daily sports reporters I've met - and that's a hell of a lot if them - are open to other reporters about their contempt for soccer. I'm not " reading " that into their work. They openly admit they think soccer is a pussy sport and that "it will never catch on here". I've heard that exact line dozens of times from different sports writers.

generously, one in six like it, one in four tolerate it, and it shows in a structurally biased approach to how they pick angles, ledges and stories.

None if this is helped by tfc being totally shit at PR and content generation, as most sports writers are pretty spoonfed


I laugh whenever I hear this, these guys must not be aware of how many kids actually play, not to mention the demographics of Canada.

We have such great multicultural diversity that soccer will be the #1 sport very soon.

Any chance most of these reporters you talk about are the old guys on the way out?

jloome
10-09-2013, 06:47 PM
I laugh whenever I hear this, these guys must not be aware of how many kids actually play, not to mention the demographics of Canada.

We have such great multicultural diversity that soccer will be the #1 sport very soon.

Any chance most of these reporters you talk about are the old guys on the way out?

Thats a pretty big part of it although it's problematic, as sportswriters tend to not be laid off as freely due to the romantic and mistaken notion that they have turn-of-phrase. So they stay until their livers give out.

jloome
10-09-2013, 07:22 PM
Here you were, proving you know more than almost anyone here about MLS ... and then you call Silva a journeyman.

We'll agree to disagree about that, I guess.

On another note about recognizing talent, it will be interesting to see if Stefan Frei gets a fair shake at winning his job back this weekend with bendik suspended. At the start if the season Nelsen claimed he was the guy.

Beach_Red
10-09-2013, 07:43 PM
I laugh whenever I hear this, these guys must not be aware of how many kids actually play, not to mention the demographics of Canada.

We have such great multicultural diversity that soccer will be the #1 sport very soon.

Any chance most of these reporters you talk about are the old guys on the way out?

In another thread (before the board went down) someone mentioned how the vast majority of the kids in soccer are taught by people who may be well-meaning but really don't know the game that well. It's very different from hockey. So, soccer may or may not become the number one sport.

And I have to say, in some ways I understand those reporters. There is a core of soccer fans here who are, let's say, not as welcoming as they could be, to North Americans who don't already know the sport. And the reporters have lots of other choices of sports to write about. It goes both ways.

Yohan
10-09-2013, 07:50 PM
On another note about recognizing talent, it will be interesting to see if Stefan Frei gets a fair shake at winning his job back this weekend with bendik suspended. At the start if the season Nelsen claimed he was the guy.
Frei can play like he's Oliver Kahn next 2 games and he still won't get his job back.

Bendik is cheaper and is as good, or at least almost as good as Frei and Nelsen is happy with that

Yohan
10-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Dear Mr Leiweke,

I hope you are watching Houston vs SKC game right now. BBVA stadium pitch looks terrible, and I see shadows where football lines were. Absolutely terrible looking

Auzzy
10-09-2013, 08:51 PM
Dear Mr Leiweke,

I hope you are watching Houston vs SKC game right now. BBVA stadium pitch looks terrible, and I see shadows where football lines were. Absolutely terrible looking

QFT, thanks Yohan! The guy is fucking delusional if he thinks TFC + CFL will work consistently on grass.

jloome
10-09-2013, 09:23 PM
Frei can play like he's Oliver Kahn next 2 games and he still won't get his job back.

Bendik is cheaper and is as good, or at least almost as good as Frei and Nelsen is happy with that
I don't doubt it; but it will still be classless given that they spent the first part if the season claiming it was just a matter of injury that he isn't the starter.

Marc"2L"
10-10-2013, 04:37 AM
Dear Mr Leiweke,

I hope you are watching Houston vs SKC game right now. BBVA stadium pitch looks terrible, and I see shadows where football lines were. Absolutely terrible looking

To be fair, they have a fully natural field, where we would most likely be going with something like a Grassmaster, the lines are another issue.

Detroit_TFC
10-10-2013, 12:26 PM
What I find most upsetting, is that this season just feels like a 'lost season', even moreso than any others. We all knew we were going to suck this year, but with Payne and Nelsen(who I had hope in at the beginning) coming in, 2013 was supposed to be the beginning of the rebuild, not next season. Now with TL coming in, Payne being given his walking papers, it's like this past season might as well have not even happened, given we will be at square one once again next season, when we really should have been a quarter or halfway there. Sure, they did some good things, like create much-needed cap room, but that's really about it.

Totally agree. If I had to boil down all my irritations and discouragement from this season, it would come down to this. This was the rebuild year. Instead it was last season repeated, with the added bonus of cap space. But no new team core was created, no playing style defined, and the front office drama continues.

v00d00daddy
10-10-2013, 02:21 PM
Totally agree. If I had to boil down all my irritations and discouragement from this season, it would come down to this. This was the rebuild year. Instead it was last season repeated, with the added bonus of cap space. But no new team core was created, no playing style defined, and the front office drama continues.

So true. In this year that was supposed to be a "no expectations" "rebuild" year the team has fired the guy that was brought in to "rebuild" the team, less than a year after he was hired. And they kept the player/coach that the fired guy went on a limb to hire himself.

The one "positive" of this year was the clearing of cap space. The guy who did it is gone.

LOL

It's like nothing I've seen before.

Alonso
10-10-2013, 04:03 PM
Totally agree. If I had to boil down all my irritations and discouragement from this season, it would come down to this. This was the rebuild year. Instead it was last season repeated, with the added bonus of cap space. But no new team core was created, no playing style defined, and the front office drama continues.


It's a god damn Groundhog Day horror movie remake.

SOMEONE BITCH SLAP ME! I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

Shakes McQueen
10-10-2013, 08:17 PM
That's very generous of you, shakes, but I'm whT I'm telling you is that most daily sports reporters I've met - and that's a hell of a lot if them - are open to other reporters about their contempt for soccer. I'm not " reading " that into their work. They openly admit they think soccer is a pussy sport and that "it will never catch on here". I've heard that exact line dozens of times from different sports writers.

generously, one in six like it, one in four tolerate it, and it shows in a structurally biased approach to how they pick angles, ledges and stories.

None if this is helped by tfc being totally shit at PR and content generation, as most sports writers are pretty spoonfed

I don't for a moment doubt that you are absolutely right about this - after all, you've got the first-hand experience, and I do not.

But how many of these people are simultaneously reporting or editorializing on soccer, while openly holding these inane opinions on the sport? Do we think Larsson, Cathal Kelly, or any of the other occasional/frequent TFC writers in this town are people who fundamentally don't respect soccer? Keep in mind the OP's "letter" was referring to negativity in our specific town's media. They've always struck me as people who respect and/or like soccer, but clearly have fair (or unfair) issues with TFC's version of it.

There's the odd article, or babble from an on-air talking head, that clearly doesn't respect soccer as a sport, but in my own own anecdotal experience, it's been a tiny minority. And our team tosses out so much legitimate dysfunctional red meat, that it might be hard to tell anyway. Bob McCown is the one person in Toronto most trot out as a prolific "soccer-hater" in the media, except even he has admitted more than once that he respects the sport - he just thinks TFC are an embarrassment, and jokes about the sport to rile up his listeners.

I think your assertion that there are a lot of sports writers in this country who don't respect or like soccer, is entirely compatible with what I'm saying, because I'd hazard to guess that most of those people don't write about soccer much (if ever), and probably aren't assigned to cover their local team. My issue is with the OP's argument, not yours.

If anyone can point to a significant, pernicious vein of disrespect for soccer in the collection of media that report on TFC, I'm all ears. I've read lots of boneheaded opinion columns over the years from people like Kelly, but nothing suggesting a more insidious and fundamental lack of respect for what they are covering.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
10-10-2013, 08:20 PM
So true. In this year that was supposed to be a "no expectations" "rebuild" year the team has fired the guy that was brought in to "rebuild" the team, less than a year after he was hired. And they kept the player/coach that the fired guy went on a limb to hire himself.

The one "positive" of this year was the clearing of cap space. The guy who did it is gone.

LOL

It's like nothing I've seen before.

It's ridiculous - at the same time, I don't think anyone would deny that TL should have had the right to bring in his "own" people. It's more unfortunate that these people were brought in months before MLSE's leadership was turned over.

I just want to see a coherent five year pla....ha, sorry. I couldn't finish that sentence. :D

- Scott

Fort York Redcoat
10-11-2013, 06:29 AM
It's like nothing I've seen before.


This sounds like Groundhog day.


I'm frustrated at the small expectations of this season and the fact they all seem to concentrate off the pitch. It's a lot of pressure for Jan. I disagree with this being same old, same old but it doesn't improve the present situation.

inheavensince07
10-16-2013, 07:31 AM
I don't care if they brought in Ballotelli and Bale it still won't fix the cluster F that goes on in the back rooms and with FO .. TL needs to make this place a spot for talents to grow and prosper not wilt and die .. TFC has a dark cloud around it and until it is totally cleaned out nothing will change ..

Fort York Redcoat
10-16-2013, 08:24 AM
I don't care if they brought in Ballotelli and Bale it still won't fix the cluster F that goes on in the back rooms and with FO .. TL needs to make this place a spot for talents to grow and prosper not wilt and die .. TFC has a dark cloud around it and until it is totally cleaned out nothing will change ..

There are 2 people that have been here from the start. That's it. Cleaning it out means replacing again. If you won't look for the change that has already happened you're going to have a hard time recognizing improvement.

levyashin
10-16-2013, 10:46 AM
It is now 7 years since the formation of our Toronto FC.
It has been 7 very eventful years.
Once again my heartfelt gratitude to ML.S.E. for paying $40 million for the team to come here.
As we all have seen they did not and still do not have a clue about how to run a Football Club.
The next year will take us to the promised land x8.
With all of the players through this organisation (154 and counting) we could have been a winning franchise.
You cannot buy a winning attitude you have to have it.
THAT IS WHAT IS LACKING!!.:scarf:

Brooker
10-16-2013, 04:03 PM
I think we just need to give them more of our money.

inheavensince07
10-16-2013, 07:13 PM
I think we just need to give them more of our money.

I am sadly after 7 years giving up my two season tics.. we used to have 4 went to two and decided now to just give them the fuc up.. I will always follow them I just cannot hand them another dime even if jesus and paul newman and hitler come on in jan as the 3 Dp's promised ..