Payne is out

[Red CB Toronto]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2013/09/04/toronto_fc_parts_ways_with_presidentgm_kevin_payne _kelly.html

[Dreadlocks]

I just read this and I'm in shock. Although with TL's arrival, it kind of makes sense.

[Richard]

What the actual fuck. Btw where did the supporter meeting thread go? Of all the people it has to be Kelly to break the story too.

[PopePouri]

Fuck sake...

[Red CB Toronto]

I will say I am not sureprised. Tim and Kevin have very different styles, and after Thursday night at RS I was even more sure this would be the fate for him.

[[NBF]]

I knew it....I just have to find the post from May to support it, but I gave him until May the next season.

[AdamAM]

I'm in shock.

[pdubs]

i guess this shows leiweke has a plan? and that he is nonetheless decisive. obviously he thought the fit wasn't right and acted on it.

My ultimate question tho, how is cochrane still employed and slipping through the cracks? hopefully his time is coming to an end too..

[manitou22]

Just when I started to feel safe about caring for this team again.

[Richard]

"It’s hoped that Nelsen can work his contacts in the Premiership to lure at least one major signing in the winter transfer window. One of the Italians on the unused list is also a top priority."

That's interesting. What about the new GM's authority?

[Jack]

I'm not surprised, but once again, our organization is rudderless and a mess.

[Gilberto9]

Didn't know that Payne not being at the supporters meeting actually had a story behind it! Just when I thought we were on the road to stability...

[ManUtd4ever]

What a fucking joke. Leiweke has actually managed to further tarnish the image of our franchise thanks to his ego. There is absolutely no justification for dismissing Payne at this juncture.

[Jack]

What a fucking joke. Leiweke has actually managed to further tarnish the image of our franchise thanks to his ego. There is absolutely no justification for dismissing Payne at this juncture.
#getusedtoit g:D

[v00d00daddy]

What a fucking joke. Leiweke has actually managed to further tarnish the image of our franchise thanks to his ego. There is absolutely no justification for dismissing Payne at this juncture.

I'm sure there are many reasons. None that we may agree with.....

This club is bizarre man. The most poorly run (in terms of sporting success) in the MLSE stable, and that's saying a lot.

[pdubs]

What a fucking joke. Leiweke has actually managed to further tarnish the image of our franchise thanks to his ego. There is absolutely no justification for dismissing Payne at this juncture.

we don't know how things are going behind the scenes tho. maybe they just dont get along with the methods and philosophies being so different.

[Jeff s]

I'm actually happy about this!

[Fishnicker]

Lot's of odd stuff in that article. Forlan saga wtf? Italian exec transfer list? Nelsen Payne at odds? Lagerway!!!!?!??!!

[Froshler]

Rebuild 8.0
so glad I did not renew this year

[v00d00daddy]

And ensco was bang on.

I believed Paynes time here would be limited but I never thought it would happen now. I thought he'd be gone some time next year. Ahh well. He served his purpose. The salary cap situation is back under control.

Now to our regular scheduled programming of losses, over the hill wash outs from the lower leagues you know where, and of course....old DP's who are more name than substance. LOL

[Leedsoronto]

Its 100% Karma

He should have been nicer during the Roma game.

[Chevy]

Just when I started to feel safe about caring for this team again.

^ This. Cue up another year of transition, a new "plan" and grease up the revolving door (has it ever been stuck?).

[Jack]

And ensco was bang on.

I believed Paynes time here would be limited but I never thought it would happen now. I thought he'd be gone some time next year. Ahh well. He served his purpose. The salary cap situation is back under control.

Now to our regular scheduled programming of losses, over the hill wash outs from the lower leagues you know where, and of course....old DP's who are more name than substance. LOL
If we even come close to what the last team under Leiweke did, I'll take it.

[PopePouri]

Our organization is rudderless and a mess.

#GetUsedToIt

[tfcocd]

I will say I am not sureprised. Tim and Kevin have very different styles, and after Thursday night at RS I was even more sure this would be the fate for him.

Wow, did not see this coming or significance of the reported comments about every one being under review. Obviously this was more telling than I thought. The over-selling and under delivering of signings had a serious price which while harsh I can agree with from a performance culture point of view. I really thought being an MLS guy Payne would be given more time but TL is also an MLS guy and obviously had no concerns in making a move to mould his organization. A young bright exec from RSL sounds interesting. It is a team many admire for the style of play and they have experienced success which TFC is long overdue to experience.

[Jack]

#GetUsedToIt
#GetUsedToIt
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-06-16-unemployment.jpg

[mowe]

Wow.

Payne did some good things here, clearing up the horrific mess that was our salary cap was no easy task. But he also left himself open to criticism. Talking up this summer window like he did and ending up with little to show for it was a huge disappointment.

To me the biggest questionable decision was hiring Nelson. Another inexperienced coach (who was STILL PLAYING!) and I wonder if they were ever on the same page. I'm not sure if Nelson shared the same fascination with pursuing the South American style of players that Payne did. In the end his failure to use this window to demonstrably improve the team probably did him in - with both Leiweke and Nelson.

On the other hand, if we manage to sign away the RSL GM I would be through the moon. RSL are the class of the league and they're proven in building and sustaining a winning team.

But damn, Leiweke is not afraid to let heads roll.

[v00d00daddy]

If we even come close to what the last team under Leiweke did, I'll take it.

Oh for sure. Me too.

To be honest though...I think what needs to be done is a true house cleaning by TL.

Every coach, trainer, manager....anyone who's job directly contributes to the on field product of the senior team need to be let go. And there are guys on the staff who's firing would really bother me (Jason Bent for one) but I think it needs to be a proper clean sweep.

This process of keeping bits and pieces because they're good guys or whatever needs to stop.

Clean house this off season and start fresh properly. Not like they've done so often before.

[TFC/Everton]

What a gongshow!

[Dave67]

"His tenure was punctuated by a great deal of talk about how to revive a DOA franchise." I know it's true, but these words really sting.

[Marc"2L"]

We weren't DOA, we got that flesh eating shit after almost making the playoffs in New York and failing hard.

[cmonyoureds]

LMAO. They knew it was coming. Now which thread had the tweet about season ticket holders not being asked to re-up until later than normal this year?..............

[TFC_Allez]

And another one bites the dust.

[bones]

Isn't 9 months a new record for a GM....even for Toronto standards???

[Ivy]

Was Payne international?
couldnt way at least get allocation for him?

[bones]

Was Payne international?
couldnt way at least get allocation for him?

noooononono, this is standard for ML$E, provide a long term contract then completely change your mind.

[Red CB Toronto]

TL is building a MLSE organization for the future. One thing that is happening is that the TFC Buisiness side of things is being shifted to within the MLSE infrastructure as opposed to being seperate as they have been for the first 7 years. This means the new president will also be the GM with his sole responsibilities being on the soccer side of things. This is exactly the same as it is for the Leafs and Raptors. Kevin was in a unique situation where the buisiness side of the operation also reported directly to him ie Paul Beirne, marketing, sales, etc. This will not be the case anymore moving forward.

[jloome]

Hey looks like ensco was right.

Well geez, not only ...

[v00d00daddy]

Hahaha. You said it too jloome.

[tfcleeds]

After the meeting I figured Payne might be a dead man walking, but wow! What does doing this now accomplish? 8 managers in 7 seasons, and our first president doesn't even last a full year. Wow, this club...:noidea:

[notthesun]

Yet another failed rebuild.

The positive is we're now starting from a decent enough position, rather than the gigantic clusterfuck Payne had to manage.

If I'm Nelsen I'm nervous. His job is on the line next year (more so than if Payne were still around).

There are some things I was really impressed by with Payne, and some things he seemed to mess up pretty badly. I'm indifferent for now I guess.

[jloome]

I'm actually happy about this!

Agreed. I could certainly argue Nelsen is doing reasonably well with the pieces he has, but I couldn't argue the same of Payne. He's fixed some obvious issues, yes, but he's also crapped out on all fronts except Laba, really, in terms of bringing in fresh talent. Caldwell was probably a Nelsen additiion, Urutti and Rey haven't played yet really, and no DP after two windows.

[Areathrasher]

I ain't even mad

[jloome]

In fact, I'd argue that last game, where we had some comprehensive flow to our game, probably showed Lieweke that Nelsen can coach a little. He needs better pieces to coach.

That's not saying he's a good coach yet or anything; the jury's still out, and tactically I'm not sure I like the style much. But without an AM who can open up defences, without decent wingers (not sure either convey or rey are starter quality), without our DP striker ever playing ... that's asking a lot.

[Captain]

Around 4:20 today I was rushing to catch my go train and practically ran into Kevin Payne coming out of the Air Canada Centre. He was clearly not in a good mood and I actually had the thought that maybe he was fired. I also passed Mariner on Spadina hours before he was fired. Seems to be a pattern.

[jloome]

Yet another failed rebuild.

The positive is we're now starting from a decent enough position, rather than the gigantic clusterfuck Payne had to manage.

If I'm Nelsen I'm nervous. His job is on the line next year (more so than if Payne were still around).

There are some things I was really impressed by with Payne, and some things he seemed to mess up pretty badly. I'm indifferent for now I guess.

Interesting that this came so soon after Urutti and the close of the window. We have this young player Payne touted for months and clearly there are issue, as he's hardly playing. Same with Rey. Maybe Nelsen didn't even get a look until they got here and then said "we spent months chasing this?"

[Richard]

Interesting that this came so soon after Urutti and the close of the window. We have this young player Payne touted for months and clearly there are issue, as he's hardly playing. Same with Rey. Maybe Nelsen didn't even get a look until they got here and then said "we spent months chasing this?"

I seriously doubt a player from a championship team like Newell's Old Boys is bad. He is not fit for sure but common.

[glaze]

If TL and KP were at odds, then this had to happen at some point. Now is the time to start looking to next year, if anything we may have a head start on bringing in the people TL wants to finally put this team on course.
But this does nothing to improve our reputation in the league. And who knows what they plan to sell people over the next month as renewal season begins.
The Serie A comments were really revealing. MLSE must look at the crowds that come in with the Galaxy and Red Bull games, (and even the non-TFC Totti crowd for AS Roma) and say if we had a marquee player we'd have that for every game. Bringing in a big name DP to simply sell tickets isn't going to bring us much closer to the playoffs.

[Ultra & Proud]

Interesting that this came so soon after Urutti and the close of the window. We have this young player Payne touted for months and clearly there are issue, as he's hardly playing. Same with Rey. Maybe Nelsen didn't even get a look until they got here and then said "we spent months chasing this?"
Interesting observation. Maybe buy I think Rey looked decent at least in his couple of minutes. Not $200K decent but alright.

This whole deal is a mess. I wouldn't count on Nelsen lasting too long especially if we pry Lagerway from RSL. I would assume he'd want his own guy and I am sure Lieweke really wants a bigger name guy despite what he said recently. On the plus side, at least the cap is in order.

[GTA_WOLF]

Payne's salary cap nightmare was a bit of a snow job I think. This team has always been up against the cap, and yet have been able to turn the squad over every year....I wasn't buying that BS. That's just an excuse for; I came into shit and look at the great job I did cleaning it up. The real measure was in the quality of talent brought in. Big fan of Laba and hope he sticks around for years to come, but there's not much else to show here. Urruti was in the middle of his season, and yet not fit to play? Our new left back Elmer has yet to see the pitch other than the Roma game, Rey's appearances have been spotty. Incredible to watch this organization work; I have no idea how the likes of Anselmi and others manage to keep their jobs!

[Ultra & Proud]

I seriously doubt a player from a championship team like Newell's Old Boys is bad. He is not fit for sure but common.
Mista used to be good too and Urruti didn't get many minutes for NOB. I haven't really seen enough of him to get a real idea yet. Hopefully this Saturday.

[werewolf]

Time to bring back Mighty Mo.

[Initial B]

What the heck!?!

I get home from work and see this!?

I don't care how good Leiweke's resume is, this is just giving more fodder for players to want to have nothing to do with this club. Is stability some sort of anathema to this team?!?

[moralis]

The writing was on the wall when Payne was not at the RPB meeting with Leweike and Nelsen. More changes are on the way. I would like to see either LA Galaxy's Bruce Arena or RSL president Garth Lagerway.

Interesting stuff about Diego Forlan:

Weeks ago, Payne was in South America attempting to close the deal with Forlan when he was told to halt proceedings and return to Toronto.

Forlan’s wage demands were not the concern. He was seeking a $16.5 million package (which, at the time, would have made him far and away the highest-paid player in MLS).

The problem was the length of the agreement. Even as it became clear an agreement would not be reached during the mid-season transfer window, Forlan continued to demand a 2 ½ year contract. This would have put TFC in a negotiating headlock as the deal expired halfway through the 2016 season.

Relations disintegrated entirely when word got back that Forlan’s agent had begun approaching other MLS clubs.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2013/09/04/toronto_fc_parts_ways_with_presidentgm_kevin_payne _kelly.html

[reggie]

The PAYNE is gone for now,i don't see RN back next season,new gm new coach..

[ag futbol]

Holly shit, so much for stability!

[TFC07]

So we didn't have to wait in the off-season for drama. It has already started! Never a dull moment in TFC land.

Anyway, Leiweke is all about brand and big name players while KP tends to be more low key and less flashy. I guess difference in their philosophy of building a team is the reason why Payne is gone.

[Joe Kool]

Show me the (allocation) money.....when I think of Payne I think of all the wheeling and dealing for allocation money. Thought it was going to add up to something big one day.... Mr. Allocation is how he will always be known to me.

[TFC07]

Holly shit, so much for stability!

Honestly, I think Payne did what he had to do with this club (get things in order), but in the long term, he wasn't a solution of building this team the way Leiweke wants to build this team.

I think this firing was too soon, but Leiweke either has a plan or he's getting desperate to show the fans that change is coming. Either way, I wonder if this will affect season ticket renewals.

[Yohan]

Well well well... Few tidbits in the article.

-Nelsen must be one helluva salesman. Or gives excellent BJs.

-So who's going to fire the guy who hired Payne before Leiweke?

-Garth Lagerwey is probably the best GM in the league. That guy has nose for talent, and not afraid to make hard decisions.

-Apparently Leiweke fired KP's brother in LA in 2012. Bad blood?
http://www.insidesocal.com/soccer/2012/02/16/galaxys-payne-out-as-aeg-reorg/

[Luanda]

The PAYNE is gone for now,i don't see RN back next season,new gm new coach..
AND mew players, NO?

[Phil]

On the plus side he fixed the cap. It was clear from that meeting though that this was where things would go. He was very harsh about the player moves and lack there of. I bet more changes are coming...

Watching the whole Forlan thing and knowing the panic going on was pretty nerve wrenching this whole window, I would have figured a year though.

Season is done, start fixing it now...

[ag futbol]

Yet another failed rebuild.
Unfair to Payne. Give it an I for incomplete as opposed to the F for failure.

We'll leave without ever truly knowing what he was capable of. It was a mixed year IMO, but nothing that warranted a firing.

Just two big heads that couldn't fit in the same room.

[v00d00daddy]

The Serie A comments were really revealing. MLSE must look at the crowds that come in with the Galaxy and Red Bull games, (and even the non-TFC Totti crowd for AS Roma) and say if we had a marquee player we'd have that for every game. Bringing in a big name DP to simply sell tickets isn't going to bring us much closer to the playoffs.

I found those comments interesting too. I wonder who they considered?

As for the big name DP...that all depends on who. It doesn't have to be a guy brought in only to sell tickets.

Look at DiVaio in Montreal. Many would argue he is not a big name but if TFC had done what Montreal has done the place would be rocking again. Both because of the "names" and the results.

I'd imagine that's TL's vision. It obviously wasn't Payne's.

[Yohan]

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=431181

TSN take on the story

[Dave67]

Surely Nelsen stays around for next season. I didn't like the hire, but now he has a year of experience to build on and he represents the only real shot at any stability between this year and next year.

I was thinking back to pre season one when we were all guessing at how long it would take TFC to make it into the playoffs or win the league. I think the most skeptical at the time was Rudi. If my memory serves me correctly he figured about 5 seasons. Even the most pessimist amongst us has to be shocked at how this club sits 7 years in.

[Shakes McQueen]

Nine months is way too early to fire a GM. Especially a GM that was handled the pile of rubbish that Payne was.

I wasn't hugely enamoured with the job he was doing, but nine months? Are TL et al. not sensitive to how that looks, given the merry-go-round we've had to date?

Can't wait to hear the explanations for why this was done.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

"One of the early favourites to assume control is Real Salt Lake GM Garth Lagerwey, a young executive (40) noted for fielding competitive teams on a tight budget."

I can only pray this is true and not wild speculation. Now that being said, short of offering the guy a small mint, I doubt he leaves RSL for a team that takes dysfunction to an all-world level.

[Ajax TFC]

That Kelly article is just packed with "facts" that have been so bungled it's impossible to tell what the true story is that it was based on. For example, how does signing Forlan to a 2.5 year contract half way through the season make him expire mid season?

[Corpand]

Disaster, disaster, disaster.

Seriously, this club makes me sick.

[Shakes McQueen]

"One of the early favourites to assume control is Real Salt Lake GM Garth Lagerwey, a young executive (40) noted for fielding competitive teams on a tight budget."

I can only pray this is true and not wild speculation. Now that being said, short of offering the guy a small mint, I doubt he leaves RSL for a team that takes dysfunction to an all-world level.


Offering him a huge raise is pretty much a given.

- Scott

[Yohan]

Offering him a huge raise is pretty much a given.

- Scottand a budget to sign big name DP, which he can't do in RSL. the guy may also be looking for a new challenge. Dude is only 40, but he's been with RSL since 2007

[CoachGT]

I'm okay with this. I had the impression last week that Payne was in the bad books for simply not executing. Several DP targets, big promises and a serious lack of performance. Add to that a very clear lack of alignment with Lieweke's thoughts about supporters (Lieweke has a healthy respect for all supporters, something that has been very clear in my handful of discussions with him) that may have had an exclamation point put on it by the "get used to it" comment. I can't see that going over well with Lieweke at all.

There were a few hints throughout the meeting that there were issues. Nelsen was clearly not amongst them.

My few minutes speaking to Nelsen convinced me that he understands what is going on and has thoughts about fixing it. I now wonder how many of his post game comments, the ones that made me question what he was seeing on the field, were influenced by Payne's rose colored views of the team.

I'm happier now about the overall direction than I was a few weeks ago.

[Alonso]

That Kelly article is just packed with "facts" that have been so bungled it's impossible to tell what the true story is that it was based on. For example, how does signing Forlan to a 2.5 year contract half way through the season make him expire mid season?


Maybe my comprehension of the article in my first read is off but he explained that Forlan wouldn't agree to come until the winter and also wanted a 2-1/2 year deal which would mean he could leave mid season, presumably to find a new team in S.A. or Europe if things didn't work out without losing any time in between?

[jabbronies]

I think Nelsen is fine (maybe even great). I continue to support Payne. It's Leiweke that has my back up.

Leiweke should not have done that event without Payne there. Or he should fire Payne.



I'm bolding this for future reference.


BAM!

[notthesun]

-So who's going to fire the guy who hired Payne before Leiweke?


I don't see Garber firing himself.


Unfair to Payne. Give it an I for incomplete as opposed to the F for failure.

We'll leave without ever truly knowing what he was capable of. It was a mixed year IMO, but nothing that warranted a firing.

Just two big heads that couldn't fit in the same room.

I agree, I just meant as a club, it's another rebuild that didn't work out.

[Shway]

Ryan Nelsen Out
Aron Winter Back!

[cwell]

Hard to imagine that the new GM will keep Nelsen. Or, if TL tells him he must, then it's a roll of the dice if the GM and the coach can work together.

[tiberius]

... To be honest though...I think what needs to be done is a true house cleaning by TL...


It is pretty sad when Paul Beirne and coffee fetcher Cochrane still remain with us - a bit like cockroaches you just can't get rid of them... Payne should have cleaned up and he didn't - he paid the price...

My question is: How much time are you giving Timmie? I was going to start drawing conclusions next spring, with final judgement mid next year... Funny, but at this point, I don't want to give Timmie as much time... Doing a reset now just doesn't impress me - He better be impressing me with a hot team in March 2014... He better start pulling a bunch of rabbits out of his hat soon... I am out of patience with this latest move...

[Ultra & Proud]

I agree, I just meant as a club, it's another rebuild that didn't work out.
We may not have a full scale burn it down and start over ala Winter & Mariner. This squad at least has a few decent pieces. If all of what is written is true then I agree with Nelsen's comments about needing to sprinkle a few quality young players and DPs in to enhance the squad. Unless of course they do get Lagerwey and he has his own new plan and isn't interested in seeing what Nelsen can manage in year 2.

[Ultra & Proud]

Ryan Nelsen Out
Aron Winter Back!
This is a joke right?

[OgtheDim]

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=431181

TSN take on the story

Thank you.

Kelly was just saying "See, he's crap!", which he'll say about Nelsen and the next guy etc. etc. etc.

[Ultra & Proud]

Hard to imagine that the new GM will keep Nelsen. Or, if TL tells him he must, then it's a roll of the dice if the GM and the coach can work together.
If Nelsen can grab these few players and start winning right off the bat next season then it'd make working together much easier.

[ag futbol]

I wonder if we will see a difference with RN tactically after this move?

It's always been rumored that KP kept a tight leash on his teams and this team played very DCU circa 2005 at times (minus the winning).

[cwell]

If he was saying the wrong things about paying customers (get used to it), players (if you started the season, you won't be around to finish it), and his boss (high-priced DPs are not the way to build a team, or thoughts to that effect), then it was only a matter of time before he was let go.

[Rudi]

I was thinking back to pre season one when we were all guessing at how long it would take TFC to make it into the playoffs or win the league. I think the most skeptical at the time was Rudi. If my memory serves me correctly he figured about 5 seasons. Even the most pessimist amongst us has to be shocked at how this club sits 7 years in.
I was so young and optimistic then. ;)

[OgtheDim]

Random thoughts:

Shocked

I think of hopefully, watching Laba and Urruti and Caldwell and Osorio and Bendik next season and will thank KP for his work.

I was a strong supporter of KP's and what he was doing to move forward. But I'm a TFC supporter first and foremost.

Lets see who is brought in to do what next season.

Its a good base.

Many many people said KP and Lieweke were not on the same page. I get the feeling Nelsen and Lieweke are. Gosh I hope so otherwise we will not be competitive until 2016.

[Redcoe15]

Me, two days ago:


So, just out of curiosity, how's this going to make TFC look if Payne leaves or is forced to walk the plank so soon? Does anybody think ML$E can look Don Garber and the MLS front office in the eyes and explain to them how a very prominent soccer boss that the league hand deliever to them was seen leaving Toronto carrying a box full of his stuff from the office? Because if that does happen, then woe be unto ML$E for whatever hell Garber will unleash upon them.

Hope you're all wearing teflon underwear when the Don gives you the blowdryer of fire treatment, ML$E douchebags!

Now, just what the fuck makes anyone think Garth Lagerwey is going to up and leave RSL for the God Damn shitshow that is Toronto FC? There is absolutly no fucking stability at all within this franchise! This is a fucking elephant's graveyard where reputations go to die! This isn't about the team at all! It's about Tim Leiweke's ego that needs to be satisfied! Just how much fucking longer do we have to put up with the garbage hat gets plopped on our laps, huh? This is without question the most absolute worst franchise in MLS history, if not North American sports!

[bman27]

Me, two days ago:



Hope you're all wearing teflon underwear when the Don gives you the blowdryer of fire treatment, ML$E douchebags!

Now, just what the fuck makes anyone think Garth Lagerwey is going to up and leave RSL for the God Damn shitshow that is Toronto FC? There is absolutly no fucking stability at all within this franchise! This is a fucking elephant's graveyard where reputations go to die! This isn't about the team at all! It's about Tim Leiweke's ego that needs to be satisfied! Just how much fucking longer do we have to put up with the garbage hat gets plopped on our laps, huh? This is without question the most absolute worst franchise in MLS history, if not North American sports!

I honestly think you are underestimating how much of an influence Leiweke and the money MLSE brings within the MLS. If Leiweke goes to Lagerwey, It will be with two bucketfulls of cash, one for his contract, and one to play with. Lagerwey has always had to work with an extremely small budget in RSL, the Leiweke mold of big name and money DP's might be a interesting concept to him.

and lets be honest, do you not think some of these guys have the ego to think about how they will be spoken about if they are the one who turns around the worst franchise in league history?

[Richard]

Like how Phil Jackson came here because Leiweke showed him buckets full of cash? Nah. If TL doesn't have someone in mind then we are in for a world of hurt, good luck getting someone here.


We now have an over controlling ego maniac who just fired a reputable MLS executive after only 9 months. That is a new record for TFC and just when you thought we stopped making records.

TL may have the piz-zazz but TFC is a shit organization for anyone to walk into.

[Suds]

So, the answer to fix this mess of a club is to fire the most experienced person and retain the least experienced person.

Got it.

[boban]

The more things change the more they stay the same.
And next season the new GM fires the coach and round and round we go. LOL
Go to love it.

[craz11]

This squad at least has a few decent pieces.

This is a joke right?

[craz11]

TL can suck my balls

[NolbertoS]

Wow, earth shattering news from TFC land. My take on Payne was that he liked to build slow, like when he was at DC United and made it a powerhouse for 4-5 years. Then he got abit stale at DC and suffered bad seasons. TL obviously is under pressure from the owners to win championships and keep selling season tickets. Thats why he succeeded in LA when he brough in Beckham. LA started selling ticket like crazy anf had a megastar playing. He's not patient and probably blames KP for not landing Forlan and making TL look like fool when he leaked the story to G & M. If Forlan wanted 2-1/2 years, TFC should've obliged and worry about re-negotiation down the road. Now with Forlan not wanting to be here, TL now has to chase his megastar during the World Cup and sell his pitch to lead TFC to glory. I get the feeling that TL and Garber butted heads in the past. Payne was Garber's man and him being canned doesn't look good on Garber. At the same time TL was running AEG and had to interact with Garber about MLS and how to save it. I think TFC will take more years to come to provide stable ownership. KP and TL should've burnt the TFC house down woth Cochrane and co an started afresh with new blood. Now it looks like RN will be gone soon with the new GM wantin to put his own guy there whenever he arrives here.

[OgtheDim]

This is a joke right?


You don't rate Laba or Bendik or Osorio or Caldwell?


Compare the squad to who was playing at this point last season. We are better. But we lack the necessary creative midfielder and the consistent striker to compete in this league.

[tfcleeds]

Has there ever been a sports franchise, anywhere, that's gone through as many personnel changes in a comparative period of time as TFC has? I don't even think the Yankees under Steinbrenner experienced this much upheaval. One thing for sure is, TL better get the next hire right.

[denime]

#getusedtoit g:D

:hump:

[Richard]

Has there ever been a sports franchise, anywhere, that's gone through as many personnel changes in a comparative period of time as TFC has? I don't even think the Yankees under Steinbrenner experienced this much upheaval. One thing for sure is, TL better get the next hire right.

Well just look at Newell's Old Boys.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Pablo Alejandro Marini (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Marini) (1 March 2007–30 Sept 07)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Ricardo Caruso Lombardi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Caruso_Lombardi) (1 Sept 2007–2 Aug 08)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Fernando Gamboa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Gamboa) (1 Aug 2008–1 Jan 09)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Roberto Sensini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Sensini) (1 Jan 2009–10 April 11)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Javier Torrente (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Torrente) (18 April 2011–27 Sept 11)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Diego Cagna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Cagna) (2011)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Gerardo Martino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerardo_Martino) (29 Dec 2011–13)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_Argentina.svg/23px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) Alfredo Berti (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alfredo_Berti&action=edit&redlink=1) (2013–)


Player wise I think we have to be #1

[bman27]

Rumblings on twitter that Payne is not the only one in the TFC front office cleaning out his office tonight.... cochrane? (we can only hope)

[jloome]

:hump:

I dunno, it's tough. I think he might have done the right thing. I don't think, based on other teams' efforts, that our scouting and player signing base was wide enough. We ignored lots of productive, lower cost targets and managed to sign several guys who probably aren't good enough to start at this level.

Given that Onstad followed Payne from DC, he might be next to go.

I've felt pretty underwhelmed by both Payne's signings (Other than Laba, and Caldwell who I think was Nelsen's) and his inability to pick up some DP talent, plus the lack of something coming back for Silva. These days, the good teams in this league just do better, and it's not because they have a "rep". No on in MLS has a rep relative to world football other than the Galaxy. It's that they're willing to move on if the deal isn't right, and to do it quickly.

WE signed Rey for $200,000 per season. He might turn out to be a good player, another dependable winger like Soolsma. But even then, that's steep money for a winger unless he's a bonafide starter.

We signed Elmer from the Swiss League a month ago. He has yet to play. We signed the kid from the Silverbacks. Is he even with the team still? We missed productive, day-one players in the draft in favor of Canadian kids who aren't good enough or ready.

I mean, wasn't Payne mostly just more of the same? We still haven't had the kind of major player improvements required to compete pretty much regardless of who is coaching. That's on Payne.

[jloome]

You don't rate Laba or Bendik or Osorio or Caldwell?


Compare the squad to who was playing at this point last season. We are better. But we lack the necessary creative midfielder and the consistent striker to compete in this league.

I don't really credit Payne with Laba or Bendik; Laba was heavily scouted by numerous teams and a well-known commodity. Bendik was a make-weight -- they started Frei in training camp, remember? He broke his nose. Bendik made the most of his chance, but he wasn't signed to be a starter. Nelsen almost certainly was responsible for Caldwell, and Osorio was a walk on after trying out for the academy.

So no, the fact that we're marginally better (but not in record, almost identical) in terms of personnel is not enough.

[bman27]

Has there ever been a sports franchise, anywhere, that's gone through as many personnel changes in a comparative period of time as TFC has? I don't even think the Yankees under Steinbrenner experienced this much upheaval. One thing for sure is, TL better get the next hire right.

well..... you shouldn't have....






Dennis Wise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Wise)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
24 October 2006
28 January 2008
68
30
12
26
88
78
50.00

[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-leedsfansstats-2)


Gwyn Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwyn_Williams_%28football_manager%29)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Flag_of_Wales_2.svg/23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg.png Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales)
29 January 2008
29 January 2008
1
0
0
1
0
1
00.00




Gary McAllister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McAllister)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)
30 January 2008
21 December 2008
50
25
8
17
84
61
55.33
see below
[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-Gary_McAllister.27s_managerial_career-3)


Simon Grayson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Grayson)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
23 December 2008
1 February 2012
169
84
40
45
259
186
57.59
see below
[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-Simon_Grayson.27s_managerial_career-4)


Neil Redfearn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Redfearn)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
1 February 2012
18 February 2012
4
2
0
2
8
6
50.00

[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-leedsfansstats-2)


Neil Warnock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Warnock)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
18 February 2012
1 April 2013
63
23
15
25
81
92
44.44




Neil Redfearn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Redfearn)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
1 April 2013
12 April 2013
1
0
0
1
1
2
00.00




Brian McDermott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McDermott_%28footballer%29)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
12 April 2013
Present
10
6
2
2
13
9
66.67





I'm going to go for a cry now.....

[tfcleeds]

well..... you shouldn't have....






Dennis Wise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Wise)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

24 October 2006

28 January 2008

68

30

12

26

88

78

50.00


[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-leedsfansstats-2)



Gwyn Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwyn_Williams_%28football_manager%29)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Flag_of_Wales_2.svg/23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg.png Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales)

29 January 2008

29 January 2008

1



1


1

00.00





Gary McAllister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McAllister)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)

30 January 2008

21 December 2008

50

25

8

17

84

61

55.33

see below

[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-Gary_McAllister.27s_managerial_career-3)



Simon Grayson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Grayson)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

23 December 2008

1 February 2012

169

84

40

45

259

186

57.59

see below

[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-Simon_Grayson.27s_managerial_career-4)



Neil Redfearn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Redfearn)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

1 February 2012

18 February 2012

4

2


2

8

6

50.00


[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-leedsfansstats-2)



Neil Warnock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Warnock)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

18 February 2012

1 April 2013

63

23

15

25

81

92

44.44





Neil Redfearn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Redfearn)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

1 April 2013

12 April 2013

1



1

1

2

00.00





Brian McDermott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McDermott_%28footballer%29)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

12 April 2013

Present

10

6

2

2

13

9

66.67






I'm going to go for a cry now.....



Yeah, was just thinking about that, haha. But certainly in a North American context, we've got to be right up there.

[Jack]

Like how Phil Jackson came here because Leiweke showed him buckets full of cash? Nah. If TL doesn't have someone in mind then we are in for a world of hurt, good luck getting someone here.


We now have an over controlling ego maniac who just fired a reputable MLS executive after only 9 months. That is a new record for TFC and just when you thought we stopped making records.


He poached a widely acclaimed young GM with a bucket if cash from Denver for the Raps. I don't see why he couldn't do the same for TFC. The egos and the reputations of GMs in MLS could be made as the guy who turned the TFC shitshow around. Leiweke might be an over-controlling egomaniac, but he has more recent MLS cups on his résumé than Payne.

[69Chevy396]

Several weeks ago I began writing about Payne's incompetence and bs particularly surrounding the idiotic Silva trade. I have fond memories of the robust attacks I endured here. But alas, again, with a little humbleness, I am right again. I have predicted each of the gm firings of the past, this one came a bit sooner than I expected. Of course, next to go is Nelsen. A new manager will bring his own coach. Done, and done.

[ensco]

...he has more recent MLS cups on his résumé than Payne.

As it relates to the Galaxy success, he signed Beckham, and that's it. He talks a big game, but he was never a personnel guy there. He's a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.

I guess if Seattle wins, Drew Carey will be in big demand to be a GM.

[ensco]

Several weeks ago I began writing about Payne's incompetence and bs particularly surrounding the idiotic Silva trade.

I wouldn't be quite that certain about the facts on that. We'll never know now, I'm guessing.

[Jack]

As it relates to the Galaxy success, he signed Beckham, and that's it. He talks a big game, but he was never a personnel guy there. He's a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.

I guess if Seattle wins, Drew Carey will be in big demand to be a GM.
Leiweke was running the show. Let him put the pieces in place like he did in LA. He obviously didn't think Payne was one of the pieces. I'm not saying he was the personnel guy in LA, but to compare him to a minority owner who's a mouthpiece is just lame on your part and insults my intelligence. Save the hyperbole, please.

[brad]

Mista used to be good too and Urruti didn't get many minutes for NOB. I haven't really seen enough of him to get a real idea yet. Hopefully this Saturday.

Food for thought. The current Barca manager rated him at NOB. Can't be all bad.

[bman27]

As it relates to the Galaxy success, he signed Beckham, and that's it. He talks a big game, but he was never a personnel guy there. He's a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.

I guess if Seattle wins, Drew Carey will be in big demand to be a GM.

Am I missing something hear? is TL taking over as GM himself (and that would be a massive mistake)

all TL needs to go out and get his guy like he got Arena in LA , and Carey and Co got Sigi

[tfcleeds]

As it relates to the Galaxy success, he signed Beckham, and that's it. He talks a big game, but he was never a personnel guy there. He's a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.

I guess if Seattle wins, Drew Carey will be in big demand to be a GM.

Still clearly remember his "I fucking INVENTED the DP!" comment at the meeting Thursday night. Yeah, Tim, I guess you could say that in a roundabout way...

[jloome]

Several weeks ago I began writing about Payne's incompetence and bs particularly surrounding the idiotic Silva trade. I have fond memories of the robust attacks I endured here. But alas, again, with a little humbleness, I am right again. I have predicted each of the gm firings of the past, this one came a bit sooner than I expected. Of course, next to go is Nelsen. A new manager will bring his own coach. Done, and done.

Sometimes, it's not the things we say, it's how we choose to say them.

[69Chevy396]

Cathal In Star writes about a list of potential Italian players offered to TFC that Payne rejected. Anybody know about this? What a fucking shame if this were true

[jloome]

As it relates to the Galaxy success, he signed Beckham, and that's it. He talks a big game, but he was never a personnel guy there. He's a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.

I guess if Seattle wins, Drew Carey will be in big demand to be a GM.

On the upside, even if he doesn't know dick about soccer, he might know people. He got rid of Lalas in LA, and Alexi was a very Payne-like "from the hip" guy.

I'll take a president who's ruthless, as long as his own signings are equal game. Not that I expect it.

[69Chevy396]

Sometimes, it's not the things we say, it's how we choose to say them.
You know, The same thought crossed my mind.

[ensco]

Leiweke was running the show. Let him put the pieces in place like he did in LA. He obviously didn't think Payne was one of the pieces. I'm not saying he was the personnel guy in LA, but to compare him to a minority owner who's a mouthpiece is just lame on your part and insults my intelligence. Save the hyperbole, please.

Cmon. Lots of people think Arena was forced on Leiweke. The only thing he was responsible for, for sure, was Beckham, which was a disaster until Arena arrived.

btw "Save the hyperbole"? On an internet board discussion relating to Tim Leiweke? That is funny!!

[cwell]

It all started with that idiotic, self-serving video series of Payne at the draft. Maybe MLSE talked him into it because they like to produce such things. But as soon as he realised that the camera was on him, even when he walked out of an interview to take a phone call! (geez), he must have thought this is it: I'm a star! Then, he would have started watching the whole series at home: I really am a star; imagine all the people of Toronto are watching this, too. Memo to TL: do not, repeat do not, repeat video hype of anyone on the club before they have actually won something, and even then, keep it short and simple; i.e., he shoots, he scores, we win.

[Richard]

He poached a widely acclaimed young GM with a bucket if cash from Denver for the Raps. I don't see why he couldn't do the same for TFC. The egos and the reputations of GMs in MLS could be made as the guy who turned the TFC shitshow around. Leiweke might be an over-controlling egomaniac, but he has more recent MLS cups on his résumé than Payne.

I'm happy the Raps got Masai Ujiri, definitely deserves credit for that. I just have a harder time believing he can do the same with TFC because of the history, not to mention the rejection of a wonderful present from the MLS. You know what they say about gift horses. I acknowledge his accomplishments and really hope he has aces up his sleeve.

[TFC07]

Cathal In Star writes about a list of potential Italian players offered to TFC that Payne rejected. Anybody know about this? What a fucking shame if this were true

I bet you any money after Roma game, Lewieke realize how stupid it was not to target an Italian player in this market. I wouldn't be surprised if one of DP's next season is an Italian.

[Phil]

As it relates to the Galaxy success, he signed Beckham, and that's it. He talks a big game, but he was never a personnel guy there. He's a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.

I guess if Seattle wins, Drew Carey will be in big demand to be a GM.

There was Keane too - at least he takes credit for that. As well, he was pretty high on Landon. But I guess we will never really know what goes on at that level. Its a pretty big state of flux right now. I will give Payne credit for Laba and a ton of work on cap clearing. The timing of this - I would rather it now I guess.

[TFC07]

Masai Ujiri loves Toronto and worked for Raptors before he was hired by Denver. He has a history in Toronto, so we can't really make a comparison between Raptors and TFC in this case.

Our new GM is going to be a guy just signing minor players. All big name players is going to be dealt with Lewieke himself.

[GTA_WOLF]

well..... you shouldn't have....






Dennis Wise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Wise)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

24 October 2006

28 January 2008

68

30

12

26

88

78

50.00


[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-leedsfansstats-2)



Gwyn Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwyn_Williams_%28football_manager%29)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Flag_of_Wales_2.svg/23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg.png Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales)

29 January 2008

29 January 2008

1



1


1

00.00





Gary McAllister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McAllister)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)

30 January 2008

21 December 2008

50

25

8

17

84

61

55.33

see below

[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-Gary_McAllister.27s_managerial_career-3)



Simon Grayson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Grayson)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

23 December 2008

1 February 2012

169

84

40

45

259

186

57.59

see below

[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-Simon_Grayson.27s_managerial_career-4)



Neil Redfearn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Redfearn)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

1 February 2012

18 February 2012

4

2


2

8

6

50.00


[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds_United_A.F.C._managers#cite_note-leedsfansstats-2)



Neil Warnock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Warnock)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

18 February 2012

1 April 2013

63

23

15

25

81

92

44.44





Neil Redfearn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Redfearn)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

1 April 2013

12 April 2013

1



1

1

2

00.00





Brian McDermott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McDermott_%28footballer%29)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)

12 April 2013

Present

10

6

2

2

13

9

66.67






I'm going to go for a cry now.....



Wolves have had the same kind of transition in the post McCarthy era....that being said Jackett seems to be a good hire, and a full time Director of Football seems to be the way to go these days to assist in the talent search.

[cwell]

"From a Galaxy fan, trust Leiweke. I wish we still had him here." MLSSoccer.com

[Jack]

Cmon. Lots of people think Arena was forced on Leiweke. The only thing he was responsible for, for sure, was Beckham, which was a disaster until Arena arrived.

btw "Save the hyperbole"? On an internet board discussion relating to Tim Leiweke? That is funny!!
My point being, let him put his pieces in place before you string him up. And yeah, on an Internet forum, hyperbole is still fucking stupid. Your Drew Carey comment was ridiculous.

[cwell]

I'm happy the Raps got Masai Ujiri, definitely deserves credit for that. I just have a harder time believing he can do the same with TFC because of the history, not to mention the rejection of a wonderful present from the MLS. You know what they say about gift horses. I acknowledge his accomplishments and really hope he has aces up his sleeve.

"wonderful present", "gift horses", "aces up his sleeve". What are you talking about?!

[denime]

As it relates to the Galaxy success, he signed Beckham, and that's it. He talks a big game, but he was never a personnel guy there. He's a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.

I guess if Seattle wins, Drew Carey will be in big demand to be a GM.:confused:

You do know he is minority owner of Seattle?

[cwell]

I bet you any money after Roma game, Lewieke realize how stupid it was not to target an Italian player in this market. I wouldn't be surprised if one of DP's next season is an Italian.

Bob Iarusci would agree with that. So do I. Di Vaio should have been playing with TFC.

[ensco]

My point being, let him put his pieces in place before you string him up. And yeah, on an Internet forum, hyperbole is still fucking stupid. Your Drew Carey comment was ridiculous.

Sorry Jack you are wrong.

Carey is a suit. Leiweke is a suit.

If Leiweke is "responsible" for Arena, Carey is "responsible" for Hanauer.

[cwell]

You do know he is minority owner of Seattle?

I think ensco was joking. But Carey has a place in this for another reason, he was and is big on the idea of supporters voting annually whether to keep the president. Might be more of an idea than a fact (although the club does do it), but gotta love the sentiment. Imagine if that policy had been in place here four years ago.

[TFC Cityboy]

this club is a fucking joke. I had no time for Payne's arrogance but he seemed to be on the right track.
Now, of course when a new CEO comes in and the 2 cannot work together there is only ever one outcome.
Why do we put ourselves thru this shit, boys?

[OgtheDim]

Ugh... if we start targeting people based on nationality....

[ensco]

My point being, let him put his pieces in place before you string him up. And yeah, on an Internet forum, hyperbole is still fucking stupid. Your Drew Carey comment was ridiculous.

Also, Jack, to your statement that I am predisposed to hate Leiweke (I'll answer that here, I don't want to do this in the Payne appreciation thread) you can find that I was pretty excited on the day he was hired.

But I react to the facts. Since the day he was hired he has held press conferences about the parade route, extended Nonis, canned Payne, signalled that's he's bringing the Argos to BMO, and generally talks about himself as though he raises the dead. I, and lots of other people, have rational reasons to think that every one of these things sucks.

I have my good reasons for saying what I say rooted in stuff he's done since he arrived, and you telling me I'm predisposed seriously pisses me off.

How's that for hyperbole.

[Initial B]

You don't think that Cochrane actually got TL's ear when he first arrived and sowed the seeds for KPs removal, do you?

[tiberius]

So, the answer to fix this mess of a club is to fire the most experienced person and retain the least experienced person.

Got it.

If I didn't know better - you know... have so much experience... I'D SAY WE ARE FUCKED! The circus is back - bring on the elephants, clowns, Mariner... It is official, this team is a effing joke, I think beyond redemption... The only way Timmie can redeem himself is to clean house - this is beyond reality. He boots Payne meanwhile Cockroach, Barny and all the other clowns are still in place - I think I have just about given up... I might as well be a leaf fan at this point... I don''t think timboy can pull this off - there is only one Beckham - he got lucky...

Sit down, place your head between your knees... and kiss your ass goodbye.

[SKB]

When Payne was first announced I was excited. However, after seeing him in action based on 17 years experience I was surprised. Considering the challenges we have had with coaches why would he take such a huge risk with a rookie coach with no experience and no licenses? His communication and PR skills were not good. He had a bad habit of promising big things in terms of signings and not delivering. His only good signings to date were Laba and Caldwell. He never was able to address creativity in the midfield or top level strikers. While he did clear up the cap issues, allocation money and got rid a lot of the dead wood, this is the easier part. What replacements you bring in is the real test.

If you were going to move him now is the time, but they better have someone lined up to come in to take over in the next 30-60 days. If they plan a 6 month search we will not be ready for next season. This will be a big test for Leiweke

[69Chevy396]

Ugh... if we start targeting people based on nationality....
Well, it seems to be working everywhere but here.

[prizby]

Has there ever been a sports franchise, anywhere, that's gone through as many personnel changes in a comparative period of time as TFC has? I don't even think the Yankees under Steinbrenner experienced this much upheaval. One thing for sure is, TL better get the next hire right.

Palermo...pick a team in Brazil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Citt%C3%A0_di_Palermo_managers

[TFC07]

We need a clean house ASAP. I hope there's more pink slips being handed out before this season is over. Guys like Cochrane and Paul B have to be gone if we truly want to rebuild this club. We need a proper clean sheet in TFC FO.

[tiberius]

Leiweke was running the show. Let him put the pieces in place like he did in LA. He obviously didn't think Payne was one of the pieces. I'm not saying he was the personnel guy in LA, but to compare him to a minority owner who's a mouthpiece is just lame on your part and insults my intelligence. Save the hyperbole, please.

You have been "shined" by Timmie - how was the pork anyway??? Ooops, sorry - that's a secret! I need to respect the secret society... damn lets not talk about it, I am not one of the sacred 40 apostles... this team has just been screwed big time. There is no beckham! Dream on!! Lemmie know how that pork tastes next summer - it sure tastes shitting from my perspective...

[69Chevy396]

Nelsen will go first. TL may like him, but he is not going to handcuff the new GM, who will invariably want to install his own man on the job. Many of you with more soccer experience than I have, have routinely argued that experience in coaching is overrated (personally, I think this is nuts). So, removing Nelsen offers no risk or sacrifice.

[tfcleeds]

Palermo...pick a team in Brazil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Citt%C3%A0_di_Palermo_managers

This club ain't got nothing on Brazilian clubs when it comes to management personnel turnover, that's true.

[tiberius]

Several weeks ago I began writing about Payne's incompetence and bs particularly surrounding the idiotic Silva trade. I have fond memories of the robust attacks I endured here. But alas, again, with a little humbleness, I am right again. I have predicted each of the gm firings of the past, this one came a bit sooner than I expected. Of course, next to go is Nelsen. A new manager will bring his own coach. Done, and done.

Oh come on - Silva was a fuckup - I seem to recall reviewing his mug shot on some arrest sheet - he was just the last of the three musketeers to hit the road... Silva was a commodity that was mediocre - he was not untouchable and he certainly was no Sam Cronin - if we had your way, we would still have Mariner...

[Phil]

You have been "shined" by Timmie - how was the pork anyway??? Ooops, sorry - that's a secret! I need to respect the secret society... damn lets not talk about it, I am not one of the sacred 40 apostles... this team has just been screwed big time. There is no beckham! Dream on!! Lemmie know how that pork tastes next summer - it sure tastes shitting from my perspective...

Jack wasn't there, just saying :D

[Jack]

You have been "shined" by Timmie - how was the pork anyway??? Ooops, sorry - that's a secret! I need to respect the secret society... damn lets not talk about it, I am not one of the sacred 40 apostles... this team has just been screwed big time. There is no beckham! Dream on!! Lemmie know how that pork tastes next summer - it sure tastes shitting from my perspective...
I didn't go to the meeting and have never met Leiweke, but nice try.

[prizby]

This club ain't got nothing on Brazilian clubs when it comes to management personnel turnover, that's true.

just finished counting; Palermo has had 19 managers in the time TFC has had 7 or we on 8 now?

[tfcleeds]

TL says he'll stand by Nelsen for next season - but yeah, supposing he does bring in Lagerway, he'll just say "it's the GM's decision" and save face that way if Nelsen gets the axe.

[ensco]

You have been "shined" by Timmie - how was the pork anyway??? Ooops, sorry - that's a secret! I need to respect the secret society... damn lets not talk about it, I am not one of the sacred 40 apostles... this team has just been screwed big time. There is no beckham! Dream on!! Lemmie know how that pork tastes next summer - it sure tastes shitting from my perspective...

This is uncalled for. There is no problem with anyone going to this event.

The problem, if there is one (not all would agree) is that it was disrespect for Leiweke to do it without Payne (ie before he was fired).

[Alonso]

You have been "shined" by Timmie - how was the pork anyway??? Ooops, sorry - that's a secret! I need to respect the secret society... damn lets not talk about it, I am not one of the sacred 40 apostles... this team has just been screwed big time. There is no beckham! Dream on!! Lemmie know how that pork tastes next summer - it sure tastes shitting from my perspective...


:facepalm:



^^ I rarely use this emoticon... but you've taken the cake here.

If this isn't a gratuitous troll I don't know what is.

[Richard]

^^^ A lot of frustration is what it is.

[khso11]

This is just shocking, I believed that he would've bring this team to a high, I just don't get it. I think there will be more changes to come, I fear the worst for our coaching staff now.

[tiberius]

I stand corrected - my apologies Jack. Perhaps you have been only affected by the after glow - my apologies for suggesting you ate the pork! ;-) Regardless this is not a good omen for the team - spin it if you like, but we are now back to the same old, same old, FO bullshit. If you really think some marketing guy is going to pull a few rabbits out of his ass, that's great - but it ain't going to happen. Mo II - here we gooooo.......

[nfitz]

So what next.

Hire new Gm. Who'll then fire Nelsen and brings in his new head coach.

And 2014 will be a rebuilding year ...

I still don't see what we gained by not keeping Mariner around as GM/Coach for this season. I don't think we'd have been any worse off.

I'm not surprised that the pattern is going to repeat itself yet again. I am surprised at how quickly it's going now. At this rate, we'll be going through 2 GMs a season soon.

I suppose on the bright side, tickets won't be going up in price anytime soon.

[Yohan]

I'll save any hate for Leiweke pending on who he hires as new TFC president/GM

[Alonso]

I stand corrected - my apologies Jack. Perhaps you have been only affected by the after glow - my apologies for suggesting you ate the pork! ;-) Regardless this is not a good omen for the team - spin it if you like, but we are now back to the same old, same old, FO bullshit. If you really think some marketing guy is going to pull a few rabbits out of his ass, that's great - but it ain't going to happen. Mo II - here we gooooo.......


If TL doesn't bring in an experienced GM with a mind of his own, I fear that you might be right.

[Yohan]

So what next.

Hire new Gm. Who'll then fire Nelsen and brings in his new head coach.

And 2014 will be a rebuilding year ...

I still don't see what we gained by not keeping Mariner around as GM/Coach for this season. I don't think we'd have been any worse off.

I'm not surprised that the pattern is going to repeat itself yet again. I am surprised at how quickly it's going now. At this rate, we'll be going through 2 GMs a season soon.
if Leiweke was going to fire Nelsen, he should have done it right now with Payne. Since he didn't, the new president/GM is going to be stuck with Nelsen at least for next season

[tiberius]

:facepalm:



^^ I rarely use this emoticon... but you've taken the cake here.

If this isn't a gratuitous troll I don't know what is.

Mark my words Alonso - this is a pivotal point. We just hired our first president of soccer an few months ago and he has been torpedoed by a marketing guy - it is pretty clear to me that all is lost. Hopefully I am a 100% wrong, but to trade soccer folk who have experience for marketing guys... this never ends well in my experience... I am not trolling, just really, really sad this evening...

[Slick]

So what next.

Hire new Gm. Who'll then fire Nelsen and brings in his new head coach.

And 2014 will be a rebuilding year ...

I still don't see what we gained by not keeping Mariner around as GM/Coach for this season. I don't think we'd have been any worse off.

I'm not surprised that the pattern is going to repeat itself yet again. I am surprised at how quickly it's going now. At this rate, we'll be going through 2 GMs a season soon.

I suppose on the bright side, tickets won't be going up in price anytime soon.

I agree completely. But I don't think I can stomach another rebuild. At least not next year. Who am I kidding, this is TFC we're talking about here.

[nfitz]

if Leiweke was going to fire Nelsen, he should have done it right now with Payne. Since he didn't, the new president/GM is going to be stuck with Nelsen at least for next seasonThat's up to the incoming president/GM surely. The same way Mariner was up to the last incoming president/GM.

Who knows - perhaps they'll get along. But surely we need an head coach with experience to build a team. Nelsen might be this many one day. But is 1-year enough experience? I suppose it's better than 0 years ...

[69Chevy396]

You know, after this near decade long debacle we would ave been better off simply keeping Mo Johnson.

[Alonso]

Mark my words Alonso - this is a pivotal point. We just hired our first president of soccer an few months ago and he has been torpedoed by a marketing guy - it is pretty clear to me that all is lost. Hopefully I am a 100% wrong, but to trade soccer folk who have experience for marketing guys... this never ends well in my experience... I am not trolling, just really, really sad this evening...



Yeah.

I think we should have stayed the course for once.

I'm getting really tired of typing this ^^^ sentence after 7 years, 8 coaches, 160+ players, 3 GM's (by my count Mo, Anselmi, Payne, although titles were not consistent)

[Oldtimer]

I'm in shock.

[Ultra & Proud]

I still don't see what we gained by not keeping Mariner around as GM/Coach for this season. I don't think we'd have been any worse off.
I don't even know what to say to this.

For me, Nelsen is already a better manager than Mariner and he doesn't even have a full year under his belt. Yeah, Nelson waits too long to sub and he starts Lambe but if Mariner were still here we'd have Hall in net, no Osorio, no Laba, no Caldwell, but we would have Hassli up top with Silva and we'd have allowed about 50 goals already. And continued to aspire to set new standards in the worst team in the world race.

Plus just imagine what other scrubs we'd have brought in from the Caribbean by now.

[NolbertoS]

So how many more rebuilds will MLSE stomach?? I'm sure season tickets are plummeting like Blackberry stocks. Does TFC eventually relocate somewhere else if MLSE can't stop the revolving doors of gm/coach/player turnover?? Just once I'd like TFC to be better than the Whitecaps and Impact in the standing and playoffs. MLSE is turning TFC into a sideshow like the Hartrells kept the Lynx for along time.

[tiberius]

I'll save any hate for Leiweke pending on who he hires as new TFC president/GM

OK - but now I am where Chevy396 has been at the last little while. - I don't give a goddamn about excuses - put a team on the field that produces - no effing excuses! Now - not tomorrow!. I want wins, and I want them this weekend! Where the hell is Rooney, Messie or Ronaldo?? With this new reset, I have no patience - Timmie has no time - produce this weekend!!!! I don't care who he brings in - coach, players, waterboys - produce! He did not need to reset this team, he has done it - SO PRODUCE - NOW!!! What a jerk.

[leafsman]

I think Nelsen stays like TL said. If the team sucks then the new GM blames him. Seems like this is what the raptors are doing with Casey.

[jloome]

if Leiweke was going to fire Nelsen, he should have done it right now with Payne. Since he didn't, the new president/GM is going to be stuck with Nelsen at least for next season

I feel if people consider how other teams sign and find players, it was obvious Payne wasn't the guy.

They're all suits. That's not the point. I don't care if Lieweke is shit at everything if he does one thing well: hire good people. Really, that's all the guy at the top has to do. Hire good people and then collect the plaudits.

LA has done pretty well lately. That happened because Lieweke hired the right people after shit-canning Beckham's management group from having any role. He got it together there. I suspect that whether he has the right person in the wings already or not, he will find that person by doing what MLSE has failed to do in the past: keep it simple. hire someone with RECENT and continuing success, then pay them more than they could get wherever they are now.

It's how top clubs have done it for time immemorial and he knows he has that financial base in Toronto.

I'm not saying he doesn't have to follow this up by proving himself. But I'm pretty sure Payne was the wrong guy. Still not sure on Nelsen, but any time one major component of a machine isn't working, you take it out, replace it, run the thing again and see how it takes. Right now, I guess I'm the only guy happy with it. (Chevy, you sound like you might be down with this; V00d00?). Ah well. I've been wrong before and will be again.*

*Several times before you finish the usual rambling post.

[mowe]

But I react to the facts. Since the day he was hired he has held press conferences about the parade route, extended Nonis, canned Payne, signalled that's he's bringing the Argos to BMO, and generally talks about himself as though he raises the dead. I, and lots of other people, have rational reasons to think that every one of these things sucks.

I have my good reasons for saying what I say rooted in stuff he's done since he arrived, and you telling me I'm predisposed seriously pisses me off.

How's that for hyperbole.

You're missing one key Leiweke move. He fired Bryan Colangelo and lured reigning Executive of the Year Masai Ujiri from Denver (who were 3rd in the West) to Toronto (who are capped out and stuck in the dreaded no man's land of the NBA). He then proceeded to clean house getting rid of long standing scouting and front office personnel. In other words, exactly the sort of house cleaning people want here.

Who gives a shit if Leiweke thinks about championship parades, and BTW he's never actually said anything about Argos himself. So far he's essentially: extended Nonis, replaced Colangelo with Ujiri, and kept Nelson, but fired Payne with his replacement TBD. Let's see who he manages to bring here and then we can see what his vision is for this team.

[ensco]

I feel if people consider how other teams sign and find players, it was obvious Payne wasn't the guy.



How is it obvious? Payne focused on young non-DP South Americans, and promoted a great Academy kid.

(I don't know what Forlan was about, all I can say is, seems to me the main thing Leiweke didn't like about that is that it wasn't his initiative. He'll turn around and do something very similar.)

That may not be what Montreal and Vancouver are doing, but it's what a big number of the US teams do.

The problem is that Leiweke is a suit who appears to think he's also a personnel guy. Happens all the time in the movie and music businesses. It's deadly. Just my opinion.

[manitou22]

Hard to justify a performance based firing after 9 months on the job. More about philosophical differences with Leiweke, particularly in regards to DPs. Payne wanted younger DPs to develop with the team and Leiweke is set on the older, marquee type. From what I've read, the vast majority of us agreed with KP.
I don't know whether Leiweke is a superstar executive whose ahead of the curve or someone who doesn't understand his market and thinks the LA model will work everywhere.

[Sullivan]

Unfair to Payne. Give it an I for incomplete as opposed to the F for failure.

We'll leave without ever truly knowing what he was capable of. It was a mixed year IMO, but nothing that warranted a firing.

Just two big heads that couldn't fit in the same room.

We talked about this eh, -- Inevitable!

Was never impressed by Payne, although I like what he's done with the cap; Leiweke is a suit, he'll will churn people until they get results.

Lets not forget that Leiweke had a revolving door for coaches at LAG before he settled on Arena:
Steve Sampson; Frank Yallop; Ruud Gullit.

My guess on a couple of names on Leiweke's short list: Dave Sarachan; Peter Wilt.

Side note, unrelated, but ... week 1 of NCAA season in the books, no sign of TFC at Indiana, which hosted Notre Dame & UCLA,
15 other MLS teams were present and accounted for.



.

[BuSaPuNk]

I'm torn with the news. Payne worked well with supporters groups and he really cleaned up alot of the mess on the books. And brought in some good pieces. But turn over is always going to happen with new management.

Hoping TL can get someone who will build on a soild core to work with both players wise and financially.

[ensco]

You're missing one key Leiweke move. He fired Bryan Colangelo and lured reigning Executive of the Year Masai Ujiri from Denver (who were 3rd in the West) to Toronto (who are capped out and stuck in the dreaded no man's land of the NBA). He then proceeded to clean house getting rid of long standing scouting and front office personnel. In other words, exactly the sort of house cleaning people want here.

This is right. Nothing is ever 100% one way or the other. I like what I've seen of Ujiri.

But I hate what I've seen with the Leafs. The public statements, and extending Nonis, has totally coloured my view of the guy.

[69Chevy396]

I feel if people consider how other teams sign and find players, it was obvious Payne wasn't the guy.

They're all suits. That's not the point. I don't care if Lieweke is shit at everything if he does one thing well: hire good people. Really, that's all the guy at the top has to do. Hire good people and then collect the plaudits.

LA has done pretty well lately. That happened because Lieweke hired the right people after shit-canning Beckham's management group from having any role. He got it together there. I suspect that whether he has the right person in the wings already or not, he will find that person by doing what MLSE has failed to do in the past: keep it simple. hire someone with RECENT and continuing success, then pay them more than they could get wherever they are now.

It's how top clubs have done it for time immemorial and he knows he has that financial base in Toronto.

I'm not saying he doesn't have to follow this up by proving himself. But I'm pretty sure Payne was the wrong guy. Still not sure on Nelsen, but any time one major component of a machine isn't working, you take it out, replace it, run the thing again and see how it takes. Right now, I guess I'm the only guy happy with it. (Chevy, you sound like you might be down with this; V00d00?). Ah well. I've been wrong before and will be again.*

*Several times before you finish the usual rambling post.I wont be happy, nor will I be sad, when Nelsen gets fired. For me this poor schmuck was hired as a buffer and it backfired cause Payne got the boot first. Sounds crazy, yes, but the optics of a professional team hiring a coach who never even coached little league before made no sense to me at all. I viewed that hiring as an arrogant jesture by a board of directors who did not give a shit. Perhaps Nelsen can be reassigned to a more appropriate job within the organization, as Dichio's assistant for example.

[Phil]

Well it all doesn't matter if the CEO doesn't like the president, I can tell you who will win.

[ag futbol]

But alas, again, with a little humbleness, I am right again.
lolololol :D

[nfitz]

For me, Nelsen is already a better manager than Mariner and he doesn't even have a full year under his belt. Yeah, Nelson waits too long to sub and he starts Lambe but if Mariner were still here we'd have Hall in net, no Osorio, no Laba, no Caldwell, but we would have Hassli up top with Silva and we'd have allowed about 50 goals already. And continued to aspire to set new standards in the worst team in the world race.

Plus just imagine what other scrubs we'd have brought in from the Caribbean by now.Surely, it's about winning games though. Simply put, we won more games under Mariner than under Nelsen. Mariner had 28 games with TFC ... 6 wins 8 draws, and an inherited team. Nelsen/Payne had months to prepare a team, a full-preseason, and in the first 28 games have 5 wins and 10 draws.

I still don't see we'd be any worse off under Mariner. I don't know if we'd be much better off, but firing one person to replace them with another ineffective person makes no sense.

As much as anything, Payne appears to have been fired for hiring Nelsen - a grossly unqualified candidate. I suppose he's a heck of a lot more qualified now, than he was when he was hired - and he might well have a great future in front of him. But I have to figure his days are likely very numbered, unless he hits it off very well, with the new incoming GM - who will understand that he only has months to make an impact, before his job is on the line; is he going to put all his faith in the guy who got the last GM fired?

[bman27]

The problem is that Leiweke is a suit who appears to think he's also a personnel guy. Happens all the time in the movie and music businesses. It's deadly. Just my opinion.

Can you point me to something that suggests this? if it is Beckham and Keane, keep in mind it is very common for upper management, chairmen etc to get involved in transfers that are highly important to the team, hell compare that to the influence of the Beckham transfer had on the MLS. unless there are stories of him interfering with his coaches and gm's on day to day operations (which if you listen to stories out of D.C is something that payne was accused of there) then lets see them.

[69Chevy396]

lolololol :D
My next prediction: Laurent Robert returns as TFC GM.

[jloome]

How is it obvious? Payne focused on young non-DP South Americans, and promoted a great Academy kid.

(I don't know what Forlan was about, all I can say is, seems to me the main thing Leiweke didn't like about that is that it wasn't his initiative. He'll turn around and do something very similar.)

That may not be what Montreal and Vancouver are doing, but it's what a big number of the US teams do.

The problem is that Leiweke is a suit who appears to think he's also a personnel guy. Happens all the time in the movie and music businesses. It's deadly. Just my opinion.

Concentrating on Argentina is a major mistake; along with Brazil it's the most expensive and difficult in which to maneuver and there are high quality, cheaper players in almost every other South American nation, certainly high enough quality to contribute in MLS.

People don't seem to realize it, but the players who are commonly discussed are a tiny fraction of those realistically available. There are many more than those who are on frees, who could be bought cheap, have relatively low wages and yet improve the team. Given how much turnaround we needed, it seemed naive of Payne to hire a rookie (even if he does figure it out eventually), and I thought his draft was pretty awful.

I agree Lieweke has the typical scammer background; I've written about a few of these guys now indepth and he's just as much as smooze artist as any of them. But if he's smart enough to hire based on record and not his own ego or view of personnel (i.e. he's learned from Beckham but also still has the balls to go after a guy like Keane) then where he comes from becomes irrelevant to me. It might still irk me on some level that he got to where he is on guile and duplicity, but at some level everyone successful gets their by guile, at least, and duplicity at the very least in the necessity of the people with whom they choose to associate.

[tiberius]

Yeah.

I think we should have stayed the course for once.

I'm getting really tired of typing this ^^^ sentence after 7 years, 8 coaches, 160+ players, 3 GM's (by my count Mo, Anselmi, Payne, although titles were not consistent)



I agree 110% - Timmie should have known our history - if he didn't - he is a idiot. If he did know our history, he is even more of an idiot. I have been around a long time, and have seen a lot of things - one of the golden rules is: if the marketers or the bean counters take over - then get the fuck out, you are on the Titanic!! Payne made a number of artful moves for this team - moving Frings out, sending Hasli and his wife to Dallas, removing short pants guy quickly, aquiring Laba, gaining cap space, etc... This reflects very badly on Timmie... and our future... nuff said.

[Phil]

Surely, it's about winning games though. Simply put, we won more games under Mariner than under Nelsen. Mariner had 28 games with TFC ... 6 wins 8 draws, and an inherited team. Nelsen/Payne had months to prepare a team, a full-preseason, and in the first 28 games have 5 wins and 10 draws.

I still don't see we'd be any worse off under Mariner. I don't know if we'd be much better off, but firing one person to replace them with another ineffective person makes no sense.

As much as anything, Payne appears to have been fired for hiring Nelsen - a grossly unqualified candidate. I suppose he's a heck of a lot more qualified now, than he was when he was hired - and he might well have a great future in front of him. But I have to figure his days are likely very numbered, unless he hits it off very well, with the new incoming GM - who will understand that he only has months to make an impact, before his job is on the line; is he going to put all his faith in the guy who got the last GM fired?

Well, in those numbers nobody measures the absolute fuck ups Mariner made on salary allocation and player payment.

As for Payne, I think he got the door for talking up a window that produced very little, making poor DP choices, missing DP players and probably trying to control the team lineup too much. Just a guess.

[tfcleeds]

As much as anything, Payne appears to have been fired for hiring Nelsen - a grossly unqualified candidate. I suppose he's a heck of a lot more qualified now, than he was when he was hired - and he might well have a great future in front of him. But I have to figure his days are likely very numbered, unless he hits it off very well, with the new incoming GM - who will understand that he only has months to make an impact, before his job is on the line; is he going to put all his faith in the guy who got the last GM fired?

Not sure why Payne would be fired for hiring Nelsen, when TL clearly stated RN was his man for next season (although he admitted he had reservations about him when he first came aboard). There's clearly differences in philosophy between TL and KP which led to this, and TL will also point to the transactions that never came to fruition during the window as the reason for firing Payne.

[Thomas]

Everywhere? Yeah, right. chivas?


Well, it seems to be working everywhere but here.

[T-boy]

I'm in shock.

I wasn't too worried about today's events until I read Oldtimer say this. Usually the voice of reason, if Oldtimer is in shock, then I'm officially freaked out about today! :o

[OgtheDim]

Surely, it's about winning games though. Simply put, we won more games under Mariner than under Nelsen....


No to the first.

Mariner wasn't good enough.
He showed no respect to the fans.
He showed no respect to the players (his "bunch of idiots" comment).
He did little scouting.
He undermined his predecessor.

There was no long term future with him.

No plan.

Nothing but heave and hope, both on the pitch and in getting players.


Oh, and Nelsen didn't get KP fired.

[69Chevy396]

Everywhere? Yeah, right. chivas?
Well, ok, for example US based clubs favour US born players. We see this all the time. And it works for them. Chivas, as bad as they are today, has a better record than we do over the past 7 years. And my comment was actually meant as a sarcastic reference to TFC's failed attachment to UK players and coaching. Frankly, that simply has not worked.

[TFC Cityboy]

so I saw on Soccer Report that Payne is staying on for a month with no title to help with the transition..

wtf? For a guy with such a seemingly high opinion of his ability, I can't see that happening somehow.
Just as you thought you'd seen it all at this fucking laughing stock of a club, they pull a rabbit out of the hat.
You have to admire that!

[Alonso]

lolololol :D


Oxy Moron


g:D

[69Chevy396]

Ok, so how precisely did Nelsen "get Payne fired"?

[69Chevy396]

Oxy Moron


g:D
Jeez, and here I thought it was paradoxical.

[Phil]

Ok, so how precisely did Nelsen "get Payne fired"?

If I were to speculate - Payne tells Nelly who is playing....like an Urruti who is drastically out of game shape and only reasonably able to play 15 min, but tells him to start. I seem to recall quotes at the beginning of the year referencing having command over the starting lineup.

Seems Nelsen had a bit more spine. Not sure though.

[nfitz]

Well, in those numbers nobody measures the absolute fuck ups Mariner made on salary allocation and player payment.What. JDG? Koevermans? Frings? Previous management.

And how can one possibly justify the absolutely idiocy of giving away Luis Silva to D.C. United for nothing.

[notthesun]

I don't really credit Payne with Laba or Bendik; Laba was heavily scouted by numerous teams and a well-known commodity. Bendik was a make-weight -- they started Frei in training camp, remember? He broke his nose. Bendik made the most of his chance, but he wasn't signed to be a starter. Nelsen almost certainly was responsible for Caldwell, and Osorio was a walk on after trying out for the academy.

This strikes me as pretty unfair and mostly assumption. How do you know Payne didn't rate Bendik at all? How do you know he had no hand in Caldwell (and besides, he makes the final call, no?)? No matter how good Osorio was in pre-season, he still had to take the chance and sign him, and I'm not convinced for a second past management necessarily would have done the same. As for not being responsible for Laba... that's a joke, right?

At the end of the day, he signed all those players. Easy or not solely his decisions, he still made them. I can't understand how it's even a little reasonable to suggest he deserves no credit for those moves. There's plenty to criticize him for, let's not pick away at his actual successes.

[tiberius]

...... Let's see who he manages to bring here and then we can see what his vision is for this team.

No. No. No. I don't care who he brings in. Bring in God or Allah for all I care - I want wins now. Nobody who follows this team should be waiting any longer - no "let's see" - if Timmie is doing YET ANOTHER RESET he needs to bring wins - starting this weekend. He does not get the option of screwing with the supporters and fan base for another year. He is not bringing in Messi, Renaldo or Rooney! He has whacked the guy who has forgotten more about MLS soccer than he will ever know... how can anyone be complacent about that? Timmie got lucky with Beckham and knows jack shit.

Can no one hear the circus band playing but me? Shit... I think I see Mo in the flute section... there is some guy in short pants waving a baton..... ahhhhhhhhh

[nfitz]

Not sure why Payne would be fired for hiring Nelsen, when TL clearly stated RN was his man for next season (although he admitted he had reservations about him when he first came aboard). There's clearly differences in philosophy between TL and KP which led to this, and TL will also point to the transactions that never came to fruition during the window as the reason for firing Payne.Didn't Payne say Mariner was his man for next season too?

But hang on ... Leiweke hasn't made any comments since Payne was fired, has he? Surely any comments made before the new GM comes in have no meaning.

[bman27]

What. JDG? Koevermans? Frings? Previous management.

And how can one possibly justify the absolutely idiocy of giving away Luis Silva to D.C. United for nothing.

How about spending 400K on O'Dea and 300 plus for Eckersley? bringing in guys like Freddy Hall etc..

[tfcleeds]

Didn't Payne say Mariner was his man for next season too?

But hang on ... Leiweke hasn't made any comments since Payne was fired, has he? Surely any comments made before the new GM comes in have no meaning.

And I did make reference to that earlier - yes, if I was Nelsen, I wouldn't be feeling too comfortable. When the new GM comes in, it's his call. But I just disagree with the idea that Nelsen got Payne fired.

[Phil]

What. JDG? Koevermans? Frings? Previous management.

And how can one possibly justify the absolutely idiocy of giving away Luis Silva to D.C. United for nothing.

O'dea? I will agree that he inherited baggage, that is for sure. He also inherited some good players. But the Darren deal was epically bad, Ecks wasn't too far behind and its clear that it was forced on. Ecks is a better player than Darren panned out though. Andy Iro was no rock star on the back line. Just some questionable players we all saw. Best not to live in the past other than to learn from the mistakes though.

[bman27]

CSN saying that Cochrane and Onstad are also out http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4939-REPORT-Cochrane-Onstad-out

[nfitz]

How about spending 400K on O'Dea and 300 plus for Eckersley? bringing in guys like Freddy Hall etc..Eckersley came in at the beginning of the Winter era. I'm comfortable with spending on O'Dea. Hall? He made $44,000 and only played in 7 games. I'm not going to read too much into that.

I'm not saying that Mariner was our saviour. I simply don't see that Payne/Nelsen was any better.

[TFCwestcan]

I am ok with this move.

Payne drove me nuts the way he talked up what he was going to do, over promise under deliver...

Credit for the salary cap moves, Frings etc. Laba acquisition.

Negatives, Silva trade?, potentially poor draft, DP summer mess.

It will be interesting to see who comes in, Lagerwey would be a positive move.

[69Chevy396]

I just had another negative thought. They come easy to me when I spend a little time here thinking about TFC. With all this turmoil, what player would want to join this bush league organization? I reckon there are hundreds of pro clubs in the world that offer more stability, more money, more prestige etc.

[Alonso]

Didn't Payne say Mariner was his man for next season too?

But hang on ... Leiweke hasn't made any comments since Payne was fired, has he? Surely any comments made before the new GM comes in have no meaning.


You didn't read in between the lines. Look up the word "duplicity" in google.

Payne said that, "Mariner is the coach", as far as I remember.

Meaning that he was the coach at the time and nothing more... meaning... we will see.

[bman27]

Eckersley came in at the beginning of the Winter era. I'm comfortable with spending on O'Dea. Hall? He made $44,000 and only played in 7 games. I'm not going to read too much into that.

Eck's came in on loan during that time, but was resigned to his contract by Mariner. Your comfortable with O'dea being the highest paid defender in the league while he was hear? he was brought in to bring leadership and IMHO didn't do half the job that Caldwell has done on almost a quarter of the cost! my problem with Freddy Hall wasn't the cost. he was a perfect example of Mariner doing his buddy's down in bermuda a favor.

[NolbertoS]

CSN saying that Cochrane and Onstad are also out http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4939-REPORT-Cochrane-Onstad-out

If thats true, I'll be happy to buy some free beer to RPB members at a BMO Field game someday :D :p. Hope Lieweke is getting rid of all the rot. TFC needs to be bleached, burned completely to rebuild properly.

[Ageroo]

Clean house and hope we rise like a phoenix from the ashes. ...

[Carts]

Clean house and hope we rise like a phoenix from the ashes. ...

Ashes??? Dude, we're so far burnt down we're burning by the core of the earth...

[Phil]

Clean house and hope we rise like a phoenix from the ashes. ...

Banner?

Respect to NEE for doing this a couple years ago.

[Alonso]

Banner?

Respect to NEE for doing this a couple years ago.


YES


Banner of a phoenix rising form the ashes!

[Ageroo]

Ashes??? Dude, we're so far burnt down we're burning by the core of the earth...

Ok....clean house and burrow through the core of the earth...like satan coming from hell? Better Carts?

[OgtheDim]

Onstad might be paying for the Forlan information flow.



We better get a decent scouting team developed out of this. New guy has to work on that.



How is Bierne not let go?

[Carts]

Banner?

Respect to NEE for doing this a couple years ago.

When are we gonna start singing the 'Chumbawamba' classic 'Tubthumping' in the stands...??? :)

We're more like that (a drunk guy getting knocked down, and getting back up again) than a Phoenix rising from the ashes...

:-)

[bman27]

Onstad might be paying for the Forlan information flow.



We better get a decent scouting team developed out of this. New guy has to work on that.



How is Bierne not let go?

well that report is saying there are rumours of others but that is all they can confirm as of tonight..... tomorrow might be a very interesting day!

[Carts]

Ok....clean house and burrow through the core of the earth...like satan coming from hell? Better Carts?

HELLS YEAH!

That would be awesome - or like DOOMSDAY from the Death of Superman storyline!

[Rudi]

Where the hell is Rooney, Messie or Ronaldo??
Is this a serious question?

[JonO]

Eckersley came in at the beginning of the Winter era. I'm comfortable with spending on O'Dea. Hall? He made $44,000 and only played in 7 games. I'm not going to read too much into that.

I'm not saying that Mariner was our saviour. I simply don't see that Payne/Nelsen was any better.
Your comfort with the o'dea contract shows your bias. You are really comfortable with o'dea counting more against the cap than a DP? It has even been suggested in some reports that his salary approached $600k. No offence to O'dea, but that's just unacceptable for MLS. It shows a clear mismanagement of the cap issues.

Also, with regard to mariner's record, you point out that he had an inherited team. I will point out that the bulk of Mariner's wins came with the inherited team (first few games when he took over). As soon as mariner put his stamp on the team, their play and record spiralled.

Back to topic, no one seems to be discussing Kelly's point that a number if players were available during the transfer window but were ignored because KP had blinders on for 2 specific players. I think that's also kind of telling. Anyway, I think this move was readily apparent during the meeting so no big surprise. Nelsen got a lot of support, so his job is safe at least for now. And for the record I didn't have any pork, but the wings were really delicious.

[Section 117]

How about trading our first round pick for Hassil? Andy Iro, dero for a bag of balls etc...

darren o'dea making 500k...
excersely?? making 300k plus

terrible cap management and arguably the most useless GM and or coach. He lived off his days as a player...

plus he is a backstabbing drunk

[Yagbod]

And there you have it....

[Blizzard]

I'm happy with it!



I feel if people consider how other teams sign and find players, it was obvious Payne wasn't the guy.

They're all suits. That's not the point. I don't care if Lieweke is shit at everything if he does one thing well: hire good people. Really, that's all the guy at the top has to do. Hire good people and then collect the plaudits.

LA has done pretty well lately. That happened because Lieweke hired the right people after shit-canning Beckham's management group from having any role. He got it together there. I suspect that whether he has the right person in the wings already or not, he will find that person by doing what MLSE has failed to do in the past: keep it simple. hire someone with RECENT and continuing success, then pay them more than they could get wherever they are now.

It's how top clubs have done it for time immemorial and he knows he has that financial base in Toronto.

I'm not saying he doesn't have to follow this up by proving himself. But I'm pretty sure Payne was the wrong guy. Still not sure on Nelsen, but any time one major component of a machine isn't working, you take it out, replace it, run the thing again and see how it takes. Right now, I guess I'm the only guy happy with it. (Chevy, you sound like you might be down with this; V00d00?). Ah well. I've been wrong before and will be again.*

*Several times before you finish the usual rambling post.

[TFC07]

So CSN is reporting that Onstad and Cochrane are both going to be fired as well?! Hopefully there's more heads rolling.

[ag futbol]

We talked about this eh, -- Inevitable!

Was never impressed by Payne, although I like what he's done with the cap; Leiweke is a suit, he'll will churn people until they get results.

Lets not forget that Leiweke had a revolving door for coaches at LAG before he settled on Arena:
Steve Sampson; Frank Yallop; Ruud Gullit.

My guess on a couple of names on Leiweke's short list: Dave Sarachan; Peter Wilt.

Side note, unrelated, but ... week 1 of NCAA season in the books, no sign of TFC at Indiana, which hosted Notre Dame & UCLA,
15 other MLS teams were present and accounted for.

I know! That escalated more quickly than expected.

Peter Wilt on the shortlist? Wow, talk about return from exile. Not sure how I'd feel about that other than he'd be a great person to improve the rapport between the club and the supporters. Dave Sarachan sounds interesting, but I'd rather poach someone else's experienced GM. Maybe Oscar Pareja can be convinced to jump ship yet again. That's how you do a damn rebuild.

Sad that nobody from TFC took in the game. Looking at this years draft it seems that some teams have NCAA scouting down and some don't. Some teams picked up multiple players and others just let usable assets slip through their hands.

[ag futbol]

So CSN is reporting that Onstad and Cochrane are both going to be fired as well?! Hopefully there's more heads rolling.
Now here is a move that finally makes some sense. How Earl was allowed to continue with this organization I will never know, but the Teflon man finally went down in flames.

Somewhere, JDG is making memes to celebrate.

[TFC07]

Now here is a move that finally makes some sense. How Earl was allowed to continue with this organization I will never know, but the Teflon man finally went down in flames.

Somewhere, JDG is making memes to celebrate.

Yeah, it's amazing how long Cochrane manage to survive in management. I wonder if Paul B is next to be let go.

What's going to happen with coaching staff? I highly doubt guys like Jimmy B who don't really have anything speical to offer is going to survive under Lewieke. Maybe Nelsen will be gone in the off-season?

[Blizzard]

Now here is a move that finally makes some sense. How Earl was allowed to continue with this organization I will never know, but the Teflon man finally went down in flames.

Somewhere, JDG is making memes to celebrate.
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4284-Former-current-TFC-players-make-opprobrious-comments-about-Earl-Cochrane-on-social-media

[Yohan]

I know! That escalated more quickly than expected.

Peter Wilt on the shortlist? Wow, talk about return from exile. Not sure how I'd feel about that other than he'd be a great person to improve the rapport between the club and the supporters. Dave Sarachan sounds interesting, but I'd rather poach someone else's experienced GM. Maybe Oscar Pareja can be convinced to jump ship yet again. That's how you do a damn rebuild.

Sad that nobody from TFC took in the game. Looking at this years draft it seems that some teams have NCAA scouting down and some don't. Some teams picked up multiple players and others just let usable assets slip through their hands.
Isn't Wilt doing stuff with Indy NASL team?

[ag futbol]

Interwebz saying Kreis and Lagerway are both in the final years of their contracts

Anybody have a goat we can sacrifice? Edit: it appears Kreis is out of contract but Lagerway has one year left.

[jloome]

Now here is a move that finally makes some sense. How Earl was allowed to continue with this organization I will never know, but the Teflon man finally went down in flames.

Somewhere, JDG is making memes to celebrate.

I think I predicted Onstad back on page four, lol. He's cleaning house. I think he probably likes Nelsen's leadership and attitude, so there's nothing to be gained by firing him now. If the new man isn't impressed, he'll do the dirty work for Lieweke before the next season starts.

[NolbertoS]

Interwebz saying Kreis and Lagerway are both in the final years of their contracts

Anybody have a goat we can sacrifice? Edit: it appears Kreis is out of contract but Lagerway has one year left.

I'd say sacrifice an effigy of Mo, Preki, Winter and Mariner to get rid of the rotten stench TFC is in thanks to them

[jloome]

Interwebz saying Kreis and Lagerway are both in the final years of their contracts

Anybody have a goat we can sacrifice? Edit: it appears Kreis is out of contract but Lagerway has one year left.

It's Lagerway he wants, I imagine. He turned over Olave and the (admittedly overrated) Espindola. Kreis got the most out of Plata, though, which wasn't happening in Toronto. We'd probably be better off with both. But the onfield stuff here seems to be making some progress; to me, it's an issue of strengthening personnel, which we could do better than by going after Forlan. There were far more realistic targets that would have had as much or more impact.

[jloome]

I'd also add the one thing to fear is that he'll go for what he thinks is the easy answer and hire Yallop, because of his winning history in the league. MLS is evolving rapidly, and both the style of play and players to get with it; Frank is yesterday's guy, on recent evidence.

[ag futbol]

I'd also add the one thing to fear is that he'll go for what he thinks is the easy answer and hire Yallop, because of his winning history in the league. MLS is evolving rapidly, and both the style of play and players to get with it; Frank is yesterday's guy, on recent evidence.
Oh god, I hope not. If we hire yallop it will be a lost decade.

[Jack]

Sorry Jack you are wrong.

Carey is a suit. Leiweke is a suit.

If Leiweke is "responsible" for Arena, Carey is "responsible" for Hanauer.

Fine. I might have been harsh. I don't agree with you, but if I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat crow. I think Leiweke's going to shake things up and bring in whoever he needs to make this organization a success because that's whet he does.


Also, Jack, to your statement that I am predisposed to hate Leiweke (I'll answer that here, I don't want to do this in the Payne appreciation thread) you can find that I was pretty excited on the day he was hired.

But I react to the facts. Since the day he was hired he has held press conferences about the parade route, extended Nonis, canned Payne, signalled that's he's bringing the Argos to BMO, and generally talks about himself as though he raises the dead. I, and lots of other people, have rational reasons to think that every one of these things sucks.

I have my good reasons for saying what I say rooted in stuff he's done since he arrived, and you telling me I'm predisposed seriously pisses me off.

How's that for hyperbole.

ok. My apologies if I misread your sentiment. I do t agree with you on this issue and I am willing to wait and see what a proven championship MLS CEO does with our team.


I stand corrected - my apologies Jack. Perhaps you have been only affected by the after glow - my apologies for suggesting you ate the pork! ;-) Regardless this is not a good omen for the team - spin it if you like, but we are now back to the same old, same old, FO bullshit. If you really think some marketing guy is going to pull a few rabbits out of his ass, that's great - but it ain't going to happen. Mo II - here we gooooo.......
I understand the frustration, but again, TL has a proven track record. He's not Tom Anselmi and MLSE hasn't had an executive like him in charge before. I think his ego requires winning, which isn't a bad thing. Maybe I'm wrong and you and Eugene can tell me "I told you so" in a couple of years and I'll admit it, but I don't see this house-cleaning as a bad thing, necessarily.

[Jack]

Also, if Cochrane is out, then this is a huge step forward g:D

[jloome]

I'm happy with it!

Fingers crossed he goes looking for an experienced personnel man. If the guy he gets wants tactical control as well, it'll be the end for Nelsen. But if he finds someone who's art is the deal, not the final product, we'll be fine. So who's the best at landing a deal in the league? I'd have to say Lagerways is up there. Sarachan's more of a coach, I think. He might think Clavijo in Dallas is a pickup, because he's helped them sign some good young S.A. talent, even though he was a bust at Colorado.

Maybe he goes outside, ala Schallibaum.

[billyfly]

What did I miss?

[boozilla]

Top, mid or bottom level house cleaning is just another step sideways to me.
Personally, I have run out of excuses to renew.

1) Year One prices......Year one product.
2) Friends will be at the game..... No they won't.
3) Live football!.....Kill me, please.

[ag futbol]

Fingers crossed he goes looking for an experienced personnel man. If the guy he gets wants tactical control as well, it'll be the end for Nelsen. But if he finds someone who's art is the deal, not the final product, we'll be fine. So who's the best at landing a deal in the league? I'd have to say Lagerways is up there. Sarachan's more of a coach, I think. He might think Clavijo in Dallas is a pickup, because he's helped them sign some good young S.A. talent, even though he was a bust at Colorado.

Maybe he goes outside, ala Schallibaum.
Oh dear god, Clavijo? I will cry into my keyboard.

I hope he knows what he's done here, because my expectations for a new GM could not be any higher. If we get another middle of the road candidate this place will explode.

[Yohan]

Oh dear god, Clavijo? I will cry into my keyboard.

I hope he knows what he's done here, because my expectations for a new GM could not be any higher. If we get another middle of the road candidate this place will explode.
Clavijo has done relatively ok at Dallas as GM. horrible coach though.

there are few really good GMs TFC should be looking for. I think TFC can rule Arena out. I think Arena is after CCL crown, and LA is his best chance of doing that.
Hanauer wants an MLS Cup, and he's got rather cushy job in Seattle. Peter Vermes gets results, but apparently is a prick to deal with, plus he's got good thing going in SKC.

So that leaves Lagerwey at RSL, who apparently has 1 yr left on his contract.

Unless there is some dark horse candidate out of the blue... It's got to be someone who understands MLS 3.0 and shares Leiweke's vision of a team laden with DPs

[Yohan]

this parody twitter account has some good lulz

https://twitter.com/KevinPayne_TFC

[khso11]

this parody twitter account has some good lulz

https://twitter.com/KevinPayne_TFC

hahahahahahaha, this is one of the funniest fake account that i've seen in a while. I can't believe the "getusedtoit" comment will encourage someone to make an account and create all those jokes. hahahahahahaha

[dupont]

I'm sick of this shit.

[Shakes McQueen]

I feel if people consider how other teams sign and find players, it was obvious Payne wasn't the guy.

They're all suits. That's not the point. I don't care if Lieweke is shit at everything if he does one thing well: hire good people. Really, that's all the guy at the top has to do. Hire good people and then collect the plaudits.

LA has done pretty well lately. That happened because Lieweke hired the right people after shit-canning Beckham's management group from having any role. He got it together there. I suspect that whether he has the right person in the wings already or not, he will find that person by doing what MLSE has failed to do in the past: keep it simple. hire someone with RECENT and continuing success, then pay them more than they could get wherever they are now.

It's how top clubs have done it for time immemorial and he knows he has that financial base in Toronto.

I'm not saying he doesn't have to follow this up by proving himself. But I'm pretty sure Payne was the wrong guy. Still not sure on Nelsen, but any time one major component of a machine isn't working, you take it out, replace it, run the thing again and see how it takes. Right now, I guess I'm the only guy happy with it. (Chevy, you sound like you might be down with this; V00d00?). Ah well. I've been wrong before and will be again.*

*Several times before you finish the usual rambling post.

As a move divorced from any other context except results, I think it's fine, and I'm even interested to see who he brings in next. Payne wasn't his choice, and he should reserve the right to pick his own people if he doesn't like the existing group.

However, I also think Payne's reputation, from a business perspective, should have earned him more than nine months to sink or swim. I think such a quick turnover, with a generally respected suit like Payne, damages the team's reputation (if that's even possible at this point). The guy wasn't handed a fantastic situation that he promptly bungled... he was handed a complete mess, and apparently given nine months to completely repair it.

Perhaps it was just a clash of personalities, or of opposing visions, in which case I guess it's best to sever ties instead of dragging it out any longer. I want to hear Leiweke explain why this was done, and I hope he doesn't just offer boilerplate stuff about the need for a new direction, or of the results just not being there. Of course, I have little faith in most of the TFC beat reporters, to get much out of him. I'm not in the crowd that think this was a terrible decision, and that stability at all costs was necessary, but I worry about how it reflects on the professionalism of our organization.

- Scott

[ensco]

Also, if Cochrane is out, then this is a huge step forward g:D

Amen

[OgtheDim]

One thing I have noticed since April. - Nelsen has a definite way he wants to play. And Leiweke currently has approved that approach. Any new president will have to buy into that approach.

Nelsen isn't going anywhere.

[nascarguy]

the only thing that need to go from TFC and toronto is MLSE I'm sick of this shit!!!! I fell like we sould sue mlse for our time and money that we spent on this team !!!

[Rene Kingsriver]

Had the chance to read the Kelly article at length and one thing irked me, Mariner was rightly chastised for stabbing Winter in the back sounds as if Nelsen's done something similar and to the person who gave him the job, a job 100% of other MLS GMs likely wouldn't have chosen him for.

[Technorgasm]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2013/09/04/toronto_fc_parts_ways_with_presidentgm_kevin_payne _kelly.html


Please people, if your going to start a thread, and one that will no doubt get to almost 100pages.

dont jsut paste the link.
copy in the article too!

Forum etiquette.

[ensco]

Had the chance to read the Kelly article at length and one thing irked me, Mariner was rightly chastised for stabbing Winter in the back sounds as if Nelsen's done something similar and to the person who gave him the job, a job 100% of other MLS GMs likely wouldn't have chosen him for.

It's an interesting question. Should Nelsen quit?

I think not. Nelsen is just trying to look out for his career and feed his family, which he is entitled to do. He didn't make a play for Payne's job (which is what Mariner did to Winter) - that is a whole different level of behaviour.

The odds of Nelsen getting blown out in the offseason have to be 80% or more.

[OgtheDim]

Had the chance to read the Kelly article at length and one thing irked me...

Its a Kelly article. Read it with a grain of salt as most of it is his spin and opinion. His schtick is to say all sports management everywhere are incompetent (except for his sources - in TFC that is Bierne)

Read the CP piece by Neil Davidson - far more balanced.