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View Full Version : Matchday 24: Toronto at Columbus , Sat 17 Aug, 7:30pm



Richard
08-15-2013, 08:01 PM
Seeing as there is no thread I might as well make my first. g:D

I don't think Urruti starts, maybe Rey and Elmer both do however. 1-0 TFC.

Pint
08-15-2013, 08:08 PM
Hopefully Urruti can get signed and maybe replace brockie or earnshaw in the 75th min.

Initial B
08-15-2013, 08:21 PM
I'm optimistic, but Higuain makes me worry. 1-1, maybe 1-2 for us if were lucky...

Leedsoronto
08-15-2013, 08:44 PM
We can beat theses guys, we just need rain !!

2-0 to TFC / 1-0 without the rain

Fort York Redcoat
08-16-2013, 07:02 AM
I hope for a win and expect at least a point. Will we see Elmer?


Also- I had a great time last away match at Joe's and am planning on watching them win there again. I'll be there for 7.

Ivy
08-16-2013, 07:49 AM
I hope for a win and expect at least a point. Will we see Elmer?


Also- I had a great time last away match at Joe's and am planning on watching them win there again. I'll be there for 7.
Perhaps I will join you... Pending afew things

BuSaPuNk
08-16-2013, 08:58 AM
Perhaps I will join you... Pending afew things

Ill see how things go but I might just join you guys as well.

Graeme
08-16-2013, 09:15 AM
Line-up thoughts?

------------Bendik-------------
Ecks---Henry---Caldwell---Morgan
Rey----Osorio---Laba----Convey
-------Brockie---Earnshaw-----

With Urruti and maybe Elmer? Hall? Lambe? Russell? as subs...

notthesun
08-16-2013, 09:27 AM
Line-up thoughts?

------------Bendik-------------
Ecks---Henry---Caldwell---Morgan
Rey----Osorio---Laba----Convey
-------Brockie---Earnshaw-----

With Urruti and maybe Elmer? Hall? Lambe? Russell? as subs...

Thats what I'd go with but Elmer instead of Morgan. I read some comments from Nelsen where he said Rey and Elmer are being very competitive in fighting for starting spots, hopefully he starts both tomorrow.

Dreadlocks
08-16-2013, 10:19 AM
I'd even consider starting Russell to beat the shit out of Higuain for the first 60 mins.

JonO
08-16-2013, 10:27 AM
May want to rethink our strikers since I believe Brockie is no longer with the club...

OgtheDim
08-16-2013, 10:48 AM
Braun and Earnshaw then.

Bring on the Weidman in the last 10 to give Marshall the willies.

I doubt Urruti will see the pitch. He might start the Portland game but I don't think he'll be playing close to the full 90 until late September.

Kayaker
08-16-2013, 10:50 AM
May want to rethink our strikers since I believe Brockie is no longer with the club...

I think Brockie is still with the club. This (or the DC game) will be his last. The Sounders game was his last home game.

Pint
08-16-2013, 10:58 AM
Pretty sure brockie either leaves or has to be back the 26th of this month.

Derko
08-16-2013, 12:29 PM
Not sure that this will happen, but given the chances we had against Seattle, I would truly like to see TFC fill the fucking net for once, I don't mind if it is something like 3-2 for TFC, just take advantage and strike at the net FFS.

Joe Kool
08-16-2013, 12:43 PM
May want to rethink our strikers since I believe Brockie is no longer with the club...

Unless something changed Brockie is here for Columbus and DC games. After that he is gone. I am sure we will see him in the lineup again.

JonO
08-16-2013, 12:54 PM
I think Brockie is still with the club. This (or the DC game) will be his last. The Sounders game was his last home game.


Unless something changed Brockie is here for Columbus and DC games. After that he is gone. I am sure we will see him in the lineup again.

My bad... Thought the Seattle game was his last since I thought he had to be back by the 18th. I blame my aging memory.

Initial B
08-16-2013, 01:52 PM
All of a sudden I have a feeling that late-substitution Uruuti will score the winner in the 79th minute.

JayMolly
08-16-2013, 03:43 PM
Seeing as there is no thread I might as well make my first. g:D

I don't think Urruti starts, maybe Rey and Elmer both do however. 1-0 TFC.

Thanks Richard.
We are glad you started this thread/had been looking for one too.
We got soaked the last game these two teams played and what a GREAT match at BMO!
Saturday - another win against the Crew!!!!

Suds
08-16-2013, 04:24 PM
Unless something changed Brockie is here for Columbus and DC games. After that he is gone. I am sure we will see him in the lineup again.

Be nice to see Brockie bag one before he leaves as a reward for the effort he has put in while he has been here.

notthesun
08-16-2013, 07:19 PM
Larson saying Urruti is with the team in Columbus but they're still waiting on his ITC. Hoping to get it in time for him to play tomorrow.

Pint
08-16-2013, 07:22 PM
Forget who said it on twitter (believe it was Asif) but they are expecting it arrive tonight.

Super
08-16-2013, 07:37 PM
Forget who said it on twitter (believe it was Asif) but they are expecting it arrive tonight.

Hope Canada Post is not delivering - or he won't be playing for another 10-14 business days.

khso11
08-16-2013, 11:11 PM
My guess: TFC 3-0. Earnshaw, brockie, urruti and we ll take the cup

Btw the crew FO told me there's 5 tfc fans going down there ATM, hopefully we'll see more!

Richard
08-16-2013, 11:16 PM
Hope Canada Post is not delivering - or he won't be playing for another 10-14 business days.

You would think these things were all done electronically by now.

Pint
08-17-2013, 10:05 AM
Asked Asif about the ITC for Urruti and he said still no word and they they would know closer to kickoff... which is believe is the same thing they said for earnshaw in vancouver

Ivy
08-17-2013, 10:22 AM
So? Who's going to Joes for this one?

69Chevy396
08-17-2013, 01:47 PM
Prediction: Urruti trips over the bench in the 78 minute and breaks his ankle.:drinking:

notthesun
08-17-2013, 02:19 PM
ITC is in, Urruti can play.

shwade
08-17-2013, 02:33 PM
Mattias laba suspended after next yellow card..

Ultra & Proud
08-17-2013, 03:34 PM
"Welcome to MLS Maxi. Here we present to you the quaint wee town called Columbus."
:yikes:

mowe
08-17-2013, 05:46 PM
#TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) XI: Bendik; Eckersley, Caldwell, Henry, Morgan; Rey, Laba, Osorio, Convey; Brockie, Earnshaw

#TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) substitutes: Frei; Elmer, Agbossoumonde, Hall, Lambe, Wiedeman, Urruti.

It has happened. Rey over Lambe in the starting 11.

Ivy
08-17-2013, 05:47 PM
These game threads are becoming less and less interesting.

@torontofc: #TFC substitutes: Frei; Elmer, Agbossoumonde, Hall, Lambe, Wiedeman, Urruti. #TFClive #MLS

@torontofc: #TFC XI: Bendik; Eckersley, Caldwell, Henry, Morgan; Rey, Laba, Osorio, Convey; Brockie, Earnshaw. #TFClive #MLS

pdubs
08-17-2013, 05:53 PM
Morgan needs a good game. This could be the last he starts for a while im afraid

markie8002000
08-17-2013, 05:59 PM
Morgan needs a good game. This could be the last he starts for a while im afraid

If he don't have start a game think Elmer is one to replace him?

BuSaPuNk
08-17-2013, 05:59 PM
Well it's obvious now there's no place for Braun on this team going forward.

TFC07
08-17-2013, 06:06 PM
Well it's obvious now there's no place for Braun on this team going forward.

That's a good thing!

ag futbol
08-17-2013, 06:10 PM
That's a good thing!
Definitely one guy who i think the league has out grown. Even the draft is producing more well rounded guys who are available on the cheap.

Surprised Elmer hasn't stepped in yet. Maybe they think Morgan has had a few good games and they'll allow him to fight for it until he loses it, just like Vancouver and their keeper situation.

pawlukj
08-17-2013, 06:11 PM
since this season is a write off I really want to see the young "nucleus" core players that ive read are to make this team a competitior... and for me that means playing urruti as much as possible with the last 5 or so games of the season, to simply sub him in at 75 from now until the end of the season means we are not letting him develop or feel out the mls.. hopefully our coaching and management is smarter than that

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 06:27 PM
Urruti is nowhere near match fit. Heck, TFC even went on Facebook to say that.

If you watch how they have been doing this, expect him to be in for the last 10-15 today, come in at the 60 next week, come in at half time against NE at home, and then start in Portland only to be subbed off after 60.

They know how to bring people in gradually.

Greatest Ripoff
08-17-2013, 06:33 PM
anyone have a link with the Canadian feed?

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 06:37 PM
anyone have a link with the Canadian feed?

Please?

ag futbol
08-17-2013, 06:42 PM
uggh this stream quality is awful.

ag futbol
08-17-2013, 06:45 PM
Jesus christ at least find Chad Marshall on the set peices.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 06:48 PM
Brockie led Marshall get in front of him. Not sure a forward is the right choice there.


Before that, Morgan...what the heck?

Lennon
08-17-2013, 06:49 PM
Anybody else getting a 'This channel is currently not available. Please try again later.' message on Sportsnet 1?

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 06:54 PM
Columbus supporters doing the yellow submarine song...........ooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

notthesun
08-17-2013, 06:56 PM
Uhhh Adrian I think Dunleavy was just going to say the only thing we have to go off to guess Urruti's ability is YouTube clips, not that he was a "world class player"... way to keep that hype reasonable.

Greatest Ripoff
08-17-2013, 06:58 PM
any links other than first row?

notthesun
08-17-2013, 06:59 PM
Are you fucking kidding me Henry???? Two games in a row??

mowe
08-17-2013, 06:59 PM
1-0 Columbus. TFC still needs to improve defending.

justin
08-17-2013, 07:00 PM
holy awful defending there...looked like a bunch of pylons.

Dv23
08-17-2013, 07:00 PM
Henry seems to shit the bed like that at least once per game. Getting real sick of that shit.

Yohan
08-17-2013, 07:00 PM
oh Doneil Henry. you got punked

Couchy81
08-17-2013, 07:00 PM
nice little play by Rey

pdubs
08-17-2013, 07:01 PM
ugghh

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:02 PM
To tell you the truth its more fun to watch Montreal or Vancouver, they seem more legit. 1-0 columbus. Urruti or not its still a team game and they all have to have better quality.

Im flipping through channels.

shwade
08-17-2013, 07:02 PM
Brockie is useless. The guy doesn't know what to do with the ball.

notthesun
08-17-2013, 07:03 PM
That's two games in a row Henry makes the exact same mistake and it costs us a goal. Not good enough. Play Boss next game.

pdubs
08-17-2013, 07:04 PM
put boss in at half make a statement

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:05 PM
Ugh......Henry just doesn't do 1 on 1 very well.

Morgan is probably a better choice vs. Odouro then Elmer.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:07 PM
Agboss is worse than Henry. Agboss just seems like he hates to be brought into games. He doesnt have the same mobility as Henry. If you're complaining about pylons, just watch Agboss shit the bed while Higuain dribbles around him.

cochrdoc
08-17-2013, 07:08 PM
We needed to improve our defence going into this year and the only new starter out there Is Caldwell.Henry needs to attack that ball in the box and not wait on it.Down 1-0 again.We need an experienced center back.How many times have we heard that before

shwade
08-17-2013, 07:12 PM
Earnshaw vs henry

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:13 PM
So Henry kicks the one Columbus guy with his follow through........and stops during the subsequent play to look after the guy. Earnshaw yells at him to play the whistle.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:16 PM
So Henry kicks the one Columbus guy with his follow through........and stops during the subsequent play to look after the guy. Earnshaw yells at him to play the whistle.

whats was earnshaw doing watching henry?

shwade
08-17-2013, 07:17 PM
He was slotted right behind him completely open. Henry couldve passed him the ball.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:18 PM
;1610723']whats was earnshaw doing watching henry?

If you looked at the play, you'd notice Earnshaw was looking at the ball trying to find space and Henry was right in the line of sight between.

Seriously, that is not the time for Henry to be a nice guy.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:18 PM
i gotta say that im always curious how Earnshaw is suppose to grow ten feet to head those crosses into the net.

notthesun
08-17-2013, 07:19 PM
My god we're just so off today. Everyone is playing like crap except Bendik. Get it together 2nd half boys or this will get ugly... or uglier.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:21 PM
Osorio and Laba are getting outhustled in the centre.

And has anybody seen Rey do anything yet?

notthesun
08-17-2013, 07:24 PM
Osorio and Laba are getting outhustled in the centre.

And has anybody seen Rey do anything yet?

He's had a few dribbles. More than I can say for almost everyone else right now.

notthesun
08-17-2013, 07:25 PM
If I see Morgan raise his hand for offside when he's the one keeping the play on one more time so help me god.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:29 PM
this really should be a 4-1-4-1:



-----------------Bendik----------------
Eckersley--Caldwell----Henry----Morgan
------------------Laba----------------
Osorio------Hall--------Rey-----Convey
----------------Earnshaw--------------

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:30 PM
Well that was ugly. Being outhustled in the middle. Odouro is a constant threat and Morgan looks spooked.

notthesun
08-17-2013, 07:32 PM
Save us Urruti!

Couchy81
08-17-2013, 07:35 PM
Osorio and Laba are getting outhustled in the centre.

And has anybody seen Rey do anything yet?

He did some nifty play to win us a corner kick right after they scored. Then he switched sides with Convey and I havent seen him do much.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:39 PM
Has anybody seen a Canadian stream yet?

Greatest Ripoff
08-17-2013, 07:40 PM
Has anybody seen a Canadian stream yet?


I can't even find a stream that is watchable.

denMAR
08-17-2013, 07:40 PM
Here's the MLS match stats (https://golazo.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2013-08-17-columbus-crew-vs-toronto-fc/stats).

shwade
08-17-2013, 07:41 PM
Has anybody seen a Canadian stream yet?

Can't help you but Adrian serioux probably isn't much better than the American stream.

Couchy81
08-17-2013, 07:42 PM
I can't even find a stream that is watchable.


http://lsh.streamhunter.eu/static/popups/16503904035510.html

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:43 PM
Wow...Laba has passed to Osorio not once so far. Osorio is not finding space.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:43 PM
No changes made at the half for both teams.g:D

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:48 PM
This is unbelieable, Columbus is inviting the attack by playing the ball back, knowing that either Laba or Osorio are going to join the attack and that basically leaves Laba infront of the back four and the two wingers spread out wide. Wide open midfield for the central midfielders to attack through the middle.

notthesun
08-17-2013, 07:51 PM
Oduro is tearing Morgan to pieces.

dantdot
08-17-2013, 07:51 PM
Keep knocking up those long balls...jesus.

Bendik saving our ass.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:52 PM
You might as well throw in Braun if they just wanna lob the ball forward at least he can win some headers. Brockie is not doing anything.

pdubs
08-17-2013, 07:52 PM
bendik is solid

Couchy81
08-17-2013, 07:54 PM
Laba like a boss on Oduro

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:54 PM
When Lambe is your first sub and you are down, then you know Rey ain't there yet.

69Chevy396
08-17-2013, 07:56 PM
Oduro is tearing Morgan to pieces.
Not just Morgan. And not only Oduro. Anybody watching this game has to agree TFC is several years, and numerous players away from contention.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 07:56 PM
ASSHOLE chants. classy ohio.:drinking:

69Chevy396
08-17-2013, 07:57 PM
When Lambe is your first sub and you are down, then you know Rey ain't there yet.
Tell me he doesnt remind you of Mista?

notthesun
08-17-2013, 07:58 PM
I didn't think Rey was particularly bad. Pretty much just as ineffectual as the rest of the team today.

I don't know what our deal is. Just a bad day at the office. No build up, no movement, bad marking, no individual brilliance. Best to forget about this one.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 07:59 PM
I will say one thing for the Crew commentators: they at least get that this is a league and talk about other results and what they mean.

69Chevy396
08-17-2013, 07:59 PM
Have we ever had a player on our team as good as Higuain?

shwade
08-17-2013, 08:01 PM
Urrutiiiii omggg

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 08:01 PM
Problem with Rey is he is not at the end of all the lobs forward. Thats all. Every single lob is towards Brockie and Rey is no where near. So he's basically omitted by the tactics being used. Urruti coming in.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:01 PM
Tell me he doesnt remind you of Mista?


No.

He reminds me of every other player that comes in without having played for over 4 months.

pdubs
08-17-2013, 08:02 PM
urrutti!!!!!!!

Wolfe
08-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Ok, it's official now

jloome
08-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Have we ever had a player on our team as good as Higuain?

Amado was close in his prime; Koevermans was better, but at a different position.

Bad tactics tonight. We're playing counter still even though we're down one, and our defensive line is sitting so deep they'd need a ladder to get anywhere.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Have we ever had a player on our team as good as Higuain?
Pablo Vitti, DeRosario, Robert Earnshaw

Couchy81
08-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Urruti on for Earnshaw at '64

notthesun
08-17-2013, 08:03 PM
This is probably the worst game Urruti could come into. We have zero meaningful possession and Urruti needs the ball at his feet.

shwade
08-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Shoulda been brockie instead of earnshaw

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 08:05 PM
Too easy Higuain.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:05 PM
Ugh....never give that guy that much space.

justin
08-17-2013, 08:05 PM
damn it Higuain is good.

notthesun
08-17-2013, 08:05 PM
LOL. Yup, just forget about this one.

dantdot
08-17-2013, 08:05 PM
That's like the 5th time they backed off him. What the fuck.

pdubs
08-17-2013, 08:05 PM
they slice through us like butter

Leedsoronto
08-17-2013, 08:06 PM
Oops, first touch wasn't great by MU, maybe he better when they restart ?

jloome
08-17-2013, 08:06 PM
;1610765']Too easy Higuain.

He's good too good a vision, combined with speedy wingers, to play a straight 442 zone against him. We should have been man-marking him with Laba the whole game.

Blizzard
08-17-2013, 08:06 PM
OK, that was a really, really nice goal. :(

Yohan
08-17-2013, 08:08 PM
brilliant goal by higuain. unstoppable shot

TFC07
08-17-2013, 08:09 PM
Higuain is type of player we're missing in our midfield along with a quality winger.

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 08:09 PM
He's good too good a vision, combined with speedy wingers, to play a straight 442 zone against him. We should have been man-marking him with Laba the whole game.

It should be a 4-1-4-1, but apparently, TFC only has 4-4-2 stencil.

tfc2008
08-17-2013, 08:10 PM
This is probably the worst game Urruti could come into. We have zero meaningful possession and Urruti needs the ball at his feet.

Feel sorry for him that he played with the worst team in Mls, when he really is so good why he didn't go to a subtop team.

Marc"2L"
08-17-2013, 08:11 PM
Urruti first touch, dispossession, goal Columbus.

Not saying its his fault, but I am saying that we can never be happy, the gods will not allow that.

shwade
08-17-2013, 08:12 PM
Osorio is invisible

notthesun
08-17-2013, 08:14 PM
Take Laba off at this point, might as well not risk him getting a yellow and having him suspended.

edit: Good job Nelsen.

jloome
08-17-2013, 08:14 PM
Feel sorry for him that he played with the worst team in Mls, when he really is so good why he didn't go to a subtop team.

Poor effort tonight. Bad shape, defense and midfield way too far apart. Look how far off the ball our defenders sit, ball watching, waiting for it to come to them. On the first goal, Henry was staring at the damn thing, stationary, instead of attacking it.

Really basic shit. Very disheartening that this doesn't seem to being instilled with military precision at the coaching level. Basic effort based things like positional spacing, closing down -- these are things that coaches like Arena and Sigi Schmid absolutely demand.

Nelsen's been playing the player's coach all season, but this shit is unacceptable.

Poor Urutti. WHen morgan had that ball wide and panicked and skied it past him, instead of just laying a one bouncer across., I couldn't believe it. One of the reasons Osario looks so good sometimes is he has a cool head -- an NASL player wouldn't ahve skied that, from five feet away.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:15 PM
A central midfield of Osorio and Laba is not going to cut it in this league.

pdubs
08-17-2013, 08:15 PM
we cant even bring it into their half for more than a few touches

Yohan
08-17-2013, 08:16 PM
Columbus playing high pressure, taking advantage of TFC defender's poor first touch and composure on the ball. so many turnovers, especially henry

[NBF]
08-17-2013, 08:16 PM
Hahahahaha, this is hillarious. Urruti is drawing back to help the team defending and when they get the ball everyone doesnt know what to do with it because there's no one up front to boot the ball to.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:16 PM
Take Laba off at this point, might as well not risk him getting a yellow and having him suspended.

You got your wish.

Leedsoronto
08-17-2013, 08:16 PM
Take Laba off at this point, might as well not risk him getting a yellow and having him suspended.

They must have just read that post :@)

notthesun
08-17-2013, 08:17 PM
A central midfield of Osorio and Laba is not going to cut it in this league.

Disagree.

jloome
08-17-2013, 08:20 PM
A central midfield of Osorio and Laba is not going to cut it in this league.

Osorio's dynamism comes from attacking defenders with the ball. I'd groom him as a wide forward or winger at this point, as he is young and doesn't show any great preponderence for passing and controlling the flow of team play from the midfield.

He'd be more effective as an offensive contributor playing wide and challenging players. Then we could bring a playmaker into the middle.

shwade
08-17-2013, 08:22 PM
We had some good possession to start the game but after the goal it was all downhill.

Marc"2L"
08-17-2013, 08:23 PM
Unbelievably outclassed.

DoubleUp
08-17-2013, 08:23 PM
A central midfield of Osorio and Laba is not going to cut it in this league.

This. Not enough experience.


Tried to take a step back!, but even after all the changes the team is still playing Timbits soccer.


The build up should come with a seizure warning because it just pingpongs around.



This team needs a proper coach and staff.

pdubs
08-17-2013, 08:23 PM
maybe something like:

Rey----DP---Laba----Convey
-------Osorio-----
-------Urruti-----

DOMIN8R
08-17-2013, 08:24 PM
The whole Fran O'Leary thing is looks suspiciously like Pinky and the Brain.http://pics.livejournal.com/onaxe/pic/00009543/s640x480 (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=45MhaxFfjMlebM&tbnid=ic4-T4hbCaw3dM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonaxe.livejournal.com%2F6358.html&ei=XCEQUvj_LKveyQG6-oAw&psig=AFQjCNEgbs2FWpEmFU4pzy9dlUWKGE1a0A&ust=1376875194032421)

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:26 PM
Laba is very good as the destroyer. Osorio isn't experienced enough, nor is he being trusted enough, to run the offence from his position. Hoofball is what happens.

lobo
08-17-2013, 08:28 PM
A central midfield of Osorio and Laba is not going to cut it in this league.

seriously? you thinking osorio on the wing or some other formation that includes them both? gotta keep em both on the pitch, right?

oh look, another ball over the mid field, lost.

Marc"2L"
08-17-2013, 08:28 PM
Turning it off now, I really hate that it's come to this again.
Waiting a whole week and putting off plans for this is getting tiresome.

DoubleUp
08-17-2013, 08:29 PM
Laba is very good as the destroyer. Osorio isn't experienced enough, nor is he being trusted enough, to run the offence from his position. Hoofball is what happens.


Yes.

There is no system/build up.

Just a few triangles, and basic wing play........the rest is hot patatoe

jloome
08-17-2013, 08:31 PM
maybe something like:

Rey----DP---Laba----Convey
-------Osorio-----
-------Urruti-----

I was underwhelmed by Rey's workrate, Convey is up-and-down at this point of his career.

Right now, for our team to be competitive, we need something more like

NEW RB -- Caldwell -- EXperienced CB -- Decent LB
Osorio --Laba -- DP AM -- MLS starting quality LM
-----------Urutii -- DP quality second striker

THat's what we need to compete. The new standard in this league is high workrate, one-touch, pressure. Our current team is still second-string and it will take a good training camp and preseason next year to make us competitive.

We bring in Rey, who looks like a competent-but-unspectacular dribbler, with a decent cross who can beat the odd guy. THat kind of guy is the BACKUP standard nowin MLS, not a starter. A starter is a guy like Zusi, like Andrew Driver at Houston who was seen over in the SPL as a game changer. You need a first team where MOST of the guys are game changers, potentially, at their position. Right now we have, assuming Urutti is the shit, five of those: Bendik, Caldwell, Laba, Osorio and Urutti. On his good days Maybe Ernie, as he can create the odd goal.

So we have five starters, really. I'd like to include Ecks but he's been going downhill under MLS coaching ever since he got here.

Initial B
08-17-2013, 08:32 PM
I'm reminded of the old adage: "You can't win if you don't score."

A corollary to this is: "You can't score if you don't shoot."

Even when TFC has the ball, they aren't shooting on the net. I think we still need some more upgrades on the offensive/service side. Probably won't come until next year though. Might as well resign ourselves to playing the string out and hope they entertain us.

Red CB Toronto
08-17-2013, 08:33 PM
It was just not the Reds night. Good to to Uruti get a run out

notthesun
08-17-2013, 08:33 PM
I'm not sure about Osorio moving out wide. He's been visibly better in the middle this year. I'm pretty sure all his goals have came when he was in CM as well. Maybe a move higher up to CF would be more appropriate.

On the bright side Urruti seems to be decent with his head, maybe he's more of a line leader than a CF after all.

Davenport
08-17-2013, 08:34 PM
Men against boys.

Lambe, Brockie, Hall, Convey...PATHETIC.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:35 PM
What we were told way back when Laba came is KP was looking for a player for Laba to give the ball to - a playmaker.

Osorio, nice a guy as he is, and really really trying hard, is not that playmaker. He was never supposed to be that guy.

I like the players we have gotten so far. I see what Nelsen is trying to do with them. I like the whole defend to attack approach. I see promise in our defence (although Henry really needs to be pushed by somebody in order to get better). I like Bendik.

But, we still lack that midfield general who can spring Earnshaw and Urruti.

TFC07
08-17-2013, 08:36 PM
If we're signing players from Argentina, then we might as well sign a manager from there as well. lol

TFC giving too much space and time for KKKrew to do whatever they want while offensively we're lacking creative mid to create for our forwards. Plus, our wings are slow and predictable.

DoubleUp
08-17-2013, 08:37 PM
he's been going downhill under MLS coaching ever since he got here.

Truth.

dupont
08-17-2013, 08:38 PM
At the very beginning, everything looked kinda promising.. but then it went downhill fast and hard.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:40 PM
I'm not sure about Osorio moving out wide. He's been visibly better in the middle this year. I'm pretty sure all his goals have came when he was in CM as well. Maybe a move higher up to CF would be more appropriate....

He is better in the middle and would be a good CM in a 4-5-1, again with a decent playmaker. Not sure about him as a forward without a decent playmaker as he will just get out muscled. He may eventually become a decent side midfielder but he seems to lose all vision when he's out wide.

TFC07
08-17-2013, 08:41 PM
I was underwhelmed by Rey's workrate, Convey is up-and-down at this point of his career.

Right now, for our team to be competitive, we need something more like

NEW RB -- Caldwell -- EXperienced CB -- Decent LB
Osorio --Laba -- DP AM -- MLS starting quality LM
-----------Urutii -- DP quality second striker

THat's what we need to compete. The new standard in this league is high workrate, one-touch, pressure. Our current team is still second-string and it will take a good training camp and preseason next year to make us competitive.

We bring in Rey, who looks like a competent-but-unspectacular dribbler, with a decent cross who can beat the odd guy. THat kind of guy is the BACKUP standard nowin MLS, not a starter. A starter is a guy like Zusi, like Andrew Driver at Houston who was seen over in the SPL as a game changer. You need a first team where MOST of the guys are game changers, potentially, at their position. Right now we have, assuming Urutti is the shit, five of those: Bendik, Caldwell, Laba, Osorio and Urutti. On his good days Maybe Ernie, as he can create the odd goal.

So we have five starters, really. I'd like to include Ecks but he's been going downhill under MLS coaching ever since he got here.

We probably become a decent team after next year's summer window. This team is still a working progress.

I predict Ecks isn't coming back after this season unless he takes big pay cut which I highly doubt he will do.

Davenport
08-17-2013, 08:42 PM
Just not the Reds night ? They've probably had 10 nights out of 150. Joke.

cochrdoc
08-17-2013, 08:42 PM
This team lacks an Oduro and a Hiquin.We have no speed on the outside or someone big and strong on the ball.They said Lambe was quick and Rey,But they didn`t beat anyone tonite.Osario was a disappearing act.We need a leader in mid who is going to dictate the play.Our defence tonite and last game is back to where it was the last few years,shit.We have along ways to go yet.Urretti is not going to win any balls in the air.Every year new players same standard

Davenport
08-17-2013, 08:46 PM
He should be delighted getting $250 a week to play football. He's a very average hoof-it merchant.

SoccMan2
08-17-2013, 08:46 PM
Sorry but Ecks, Lambe,Convey,Henry,Morgan,Brockie,Hall are not players that will make this team a playoff team. A game like tonight's show's us how far back this team still is. There still is a shitload of changes to make, it's still pretty ugly out there.

gate7
08-17-2013, 08:49 PM
alot more cleanup required before any hope of building for the future.........Henry is a thug out there i gave up on him weeks ago.

OgtheDim
08-17-2013, 08:54 PM
We have had decent halves of football this season. Some of our best play in years. But, without a feared playmaker, somebody that teams have to take into account, they can key on others (they keyed on Convey and Osorio tonight), and just sit in defence and await the crosses that are not going to get to Earnshaw etc.

And until the whole defence trusts their LB, a player like ODouro is going to bend the back 4 out of shape.

Redcoe15
08-17-2013, 09:00 PM
Our side sucked tonight. That is all I can say.

DOMIN8R
08-17-2013, 09:04 PM
Perhaps not the right thread for this observation. But every game I see long stretches where Fran O'Leary is wispering in Nelson's ear. Away from the other coaching staff. I've never seen a coaching relationship quite like it. Nelson is captivated by what Fran has to say. Nelson says little. Fran speaks for a long stretch. It's as though Nelson needs coaching on his coaching. Perhaps, O'Leary sees/observes things that Nelson does not. But I see it every game. And not once and a while during a game - but for long stretches (4-8 minute at a time). Watching the US feed tonight really highlighted it.....again. It's a wee bit strange.

miker
08-17-2013, 09:13 PM
Zero attacking quality. If we at least had a strong attacking mid and another really good striker our poor defending wouldn't be so constantly exposed. We just have no clue what to do going forward.

ag futbol
08-17-2013, 09:37 PM
Laba is very good as the destroyer. Osorio isn't experienced enough, nor is he being trusted enough, to run the offence from his position. Hoofball is what happens.
We don't have a single defender that could be described as strong on the ball. High pressure and we will hoof, defenders can't make decisive passes.

Oranje
08-17-2013, 09:42 PM
We don't have a single defender that could be described as strong on the ball. High pressure and we will hoof, defenders can't make decisive passes.

Pretty sure even under low pressure we hoof. Our mid is non existent so it's a mixture of inability to make the pass and absolutely no play in the midfield. After Convey's coming out party against Columbus, I think he's officially went back in. It's basically like playing a man down with him on the field

Abou Sky
08-17-2013, 09:43 PM
Sorry but Ecks, Lambe,Convey,Henry,Morgan,Brockie,Hall are not players that will make this team a playoff team. A game like tonight's show's us how far back this team still is. There still is a shitload of changes to make, it's still pretty ugly out there.

Henry can be good, he runs hot and cold, still young enough to become a great player.

Rest +1

Laba had his worst game I have seen him play, I think that right now he is the linchpin so everything falls apart if he isn't doing well.

T-boy
08-17-2013, 09:50 PM
We are just going to have nights light tonight when we have such a young team. We still do lack some quality in areas of the field though.

Agree Henry can be excellent but also can have poor nights. He's going to get more consistant with age, like all CB's do. By the time he's 25 he's going to be an excellent defender.

Marc"2L"
08-17-2013, 09:54 PM
I don't know why but this loss hurts the most so far this season. It's like everything you could of been hopeful about was non existent.

Masked Man
08-17-2013, 10:14 PM
I don't know why but this loss hurts the most so far this season. It's like everything you could of been hopeful about was non existent.
It was nice seeing some level of competence during the 4 previous games. Must have been an awful game.

gracos
08-17-2013, 10:16 PM
TFC just needs to keep going forward, I am actually happy to see we havent called for Nelsens head, so we can actually slowly build a core, it just is going to take some time to get established and we need to keep the path we have started; and us fans will be rewarded sooner than later

69Chevy396
08-17-2013, 10:21 PM
At the very beginning, everything looked kinda promising.. but then it went downhill fast and hard.
You referring to this game or to the past 7 years?

khso11
08-17-2013, 10:35 PM
This was one of the worst performance I've seen by the team this year, I don't even recall seeing them having a shot on goal.

metaxa
08-17-2013, 10:35 PM
wow... i spent my Saturday night watching that.... that was just awful. Urrutti good luck bro...

Marc"2L"
08-17-2013, 10:41 PM
You referring to this game or to the past 7 years?

Hey remember that one year we almost made the playoffs and then crapped the bed against the worst team that year?

TOBOR !
08-17-2013, 11:15 PM
Lambe made some nice moves shortly after coming on, to create some space for a good scoring chance, only to decide it would be better to cross to the far touchline.

I interpret that as lack of confidence in front of goal, and for that you get sent down to the reserves while I try and find someone to take you off my hands.

Then this wholly futile raid on Bermuda will finally be over.

jloome
08-17-2013, 11:41 PM
TFC just needs to keep going forward, I am actually happy to see we havent called for Nelsens head, so we can actually slowly build a core, it just is going to take some time to get established and we need to keep the path we have started; and us fans will be rewarded sooner than later

I think one of the reasons you hear from fewer of us older guys is that we're at a bit of a loss for words sometimes these days; yes, they're fixing some of the staff problems of the past.

But I have to wonder, honestly, if picking a coach who is new and learning on the job didn't make it twice as hard.

Look we can talk all we want about strong efforts or weak players, but if a team is tactically under-prepared it won't matter. We have elementally incorrect tactical issues that never seem to be addressed.

* The most important is our off-the-ball movement. The biggest reasons why it always seems like we're playing against compact teams and have no space to operate is that our players off the ball do NOTHING to break the opposing team's shape up, such as dragging defenders out of their zones or positions, so that other players can use that space. If you can't spread a defence, or overload it to one side, your man on the ball always has to beat two or more players, because there's always someone close to support his defender. When I see zero effort to move off the ball unconventionally, or out of lanes, that tells me it's not being taught. NO ONE moves off the ball on our team. We're rigid.

* We are not teaching young players to consistently attack the ball. Both Doneil Henry and Ashtone Morgan continue to make the fundamental mistake that was drummed out of any school kid when I was a young lad across the pond, which is taking an intercept position at the ball's apex destination, instead starting from behind that spot and accelerating to attack the ball. Instead, our guys get position, then try to win the ball when it gets there. This is basic, basic defending 101. Our coach is a defender. I simply refuses to believe attacking the ball is being taught, as it rarely happens unless it's Mattias Laba or Stephen Caldwell.

* When the ball is wide in the final third, one of the midfielders has to be pinching in. We are so concerned about losing defensive shape that it's rare for that extra body to get there untilt he ball is delivered. But the encroaching midfielder's job isn't just to attack; it's also to create havoc and space for the strikers. You can't do that if your ten yards shy of the edge of the box when crosses are delivered.

*We play the fullback overlap far too often. Today, twice our fullbacks began to overlap before we were even out of our defensive third; on one occasion, it so suprised Bobby Convey that he misplayed his pass and had to drop back to fill Morgan's role.

* By placing the entire attacking burden on the two strikers and having them basically play "posts" (one cuts near post across the penalty marker, the other goes far post in expectation of crosses to those spots) we don't have a striker ever holding up the ball and giving midfielders time to get into position. One of the reasons why 433 variants are favored is that they allow a pivot of the attack to a new position very quickly. Our rigidity means that's impossible, which makes unbalancing the field to one side very difficult.

I just get a general sense that our time is spent on scenarios and setting up basic triangle support play; it just seems wholly insufficent, and basic problems aren't being addressed.

Still, early days I guess....

jazzy
08-18-2013, 12:34 AM
We have had decent halves of football this season. Some of our best play in years. But, without a feared playmaker, somebody that teams have to take into account, they can key on others (they keyed on Convey and Osorio tonight), and just sit in defence and await the crosses that are not going to get to Earnshaw etc.

And until the whole defence trusts their LB, a player like ODouro is going to bend the back 4 out of shape.

I like what you say but Earnshaw is now pulling a Lambe and along with Brockie are invisible. All are flashes in the pan....which is why they are still here I guess? Crosses to Eanshaw uh why?.....Are they going to bounce through someones legs?......Not sure we even have a offensive vision /plan.

jazzy
08-18-2013, 12:42 AM
Lambe made some nice moves shortly after coming on, to create some space for a good scoring chance, only to decide it would be better to cross to the far touchline.

I interpret that as lack of confidence in front of goal, and for that you get sent down to the reserves while I try and find someone to take you off my hands.

Then this wholly futile raid on Bermuda will finally be over.

that absolutely flabbergasted me........I'm close to actually asking Nelson what Lambe does that makes him so special.........prob not,....as an aside what was Caldwell doing backing up watching Higuain 's lovely shot? Acting like a second goalie?...Why give that man time to even set up?.......

notthesun
08-18-2013, 12:43 AM
I like what you say but Earnshaw is now pulling a Lambe and along with Brockie are invisible. All are flashes in the pan....which is why they are still here I guess? Crosses to Eanshaw uh why?.....Are they going to bounce through someones legs?......Not sure we even have a offensive vision /plan.

The frustrating thing about crosses to Earnshaw is that Earnshaw makes the near post run every single time, and yet we never deliver a hard low cross. We always lob it over his head to the back post, I don't understand it. That one headed goal he scored against D.C. is going to be his only headed goal of the year, he won't be scoring with his head. We need to start drilling low near post crosses because he's getting into position for them every chance he gets.

ginkster88
08-18-2013, 12:47 AM
I guess all the of positives from the last few weeks should just be thrown out the window. Christ guys, this is a young team growing week by week. We've seen some definitive improvement all season, especially in areas where we are typically terrible. Improvement isn't necessarily seen week-by-week, but I think it's safe to say the team on the field is markedly improved from the squad that kicked off the season. Let's take a step back from one week and see where we're at when the season is done.

jazzy
08-18-2013, 12:58 AM
The frustrating thing about crosses to Earnshaw is that Earnshaw makes the near post run every single time, and yet we never deliver a hard low cross. We always lob it over his head to the back post, I don't understand it. That one headed goal he scored against D.C. is going to be his only headed goal of the year, he won't be scoring with his head. We need to start drilling low near post crosses because he's getting into position for them every chance he gets.

true enough!... although when I've seen a low cross it is poorly timed or intercepted by Brockie (sigh),......we need individual responsibility on the team and players sat, if there isn't results.........oh ya our bench ARE our starters...... does our coach have to be a magican ?.....or simply everyone on the same page. Early in the season I had second thoughts on where our offensive strategy would come from.....still do. WE need offensive help and not Mr. Leary.........he's a waste, respectfully.

Voodooman
08-19-2013, 11:33 AM
At least we can all agree this was another sharp game by Bendik. He played very well in goal I thought.

trane
08-19-2013, 12:00 PM
I think one of the reasons you hear from fewer of us older guys is that we're at a bit of a loss for words sometimes these days; yes, they're fixing some of the staff problems of the past.

But I have to wonder, honestly, if picking a coach who is new and learning on the job didn't make it twice as hard.

Look we can talk all we want about strong efforts or weak players, but if a team is tactically under-prepared it won't matter. We have elementally incorrect tactical issues that never seem to be addressed.

* The most important is our off-the-ball movement. The biggest reasons why it always seems like we're playing against compact teams and have no space to operate is that our players off the ball do NOTHING to break the opposing team's shape up, such as dragging defenders out of their zones or positions, so that other players can use that space. If you can't spread a defence, or overload it to one side, your man on the ball always has to beat two or more players, because there's always someone close to support his defender. When I see zero effort to move off the ball unconventionally, or out of lanes, that tells me it's not being taught. NO ONE moves off the ball on our team. We're rigid.

* We are not teaching young players to consistently attack the ball. Both Doneil Henry and Ashtone Morgan continue to make the fundamental mistake that was drummed out of any school kid when I was a young lad across the pond, which is taking an intercept position at the ball's apex destination, instead starting from behind that spot and accelerating to attack the ball. Instead, our guys get position, then try to win the ball when it gets there. This is basic, basic defending 101. Our coach is a defender. I simply refuses to believe attacking the ball is being taught, as it rarely happens unless it's Mattias Laba or Stephen Caldwell.

* When the ball is wide in the final third, one of the midfielders has to be pinching in. We are so concerned about losing defensive shape that it's rare for that extra body to get there untilt he ball is delivered. But the encroaching midfielder's job isn't just to attack; it's also to create havoc and space for the strikers. You can't do that if your ten yards shy of the edge of the box when crosses are delivered.

*We play the fullback overlap far too often. Today, twice our fullbacks began to overlap before we were even out of our defensive third; on one occasion, it so suprised Bobby Convey that he misplayed his pass and had to drop back to fill Morgan's role.

* By placing the entire attacking burden on the two strikers and having them basically play "posts" (one cuts near post across the penalty marker, the other goes far post in expectation of crosses to those spots) we don't have a striker ever holding up the ball and giving midfielders time to get into position. One of the reasons why 433 variants are favored is that they allow a pivot of the attack to a new position very quickly. Our rigidity means that's impossible, which makes unbalancing the field to one side very difficult.

I just get a general sense that our time is spent on scenarios and setting up basic triangle support play; it just seems wholly insufficent, and basic problems aren't being addressed.

Still, early days I guess....

The systems I like for these league are 4-3-3, 4-4-1-1 or a 4-5-1, which in some ways can all look like one another. But for me the key to success, is having that ONE classic Center Forward that can hold up the ball and pass it back to runners, and one rely DP quality or almost, AM/SS, a 10 if you will everyone else can play off these
two. the rest of the team needs to stay organized and support INTELLIGENTLY. To this day, I still think that we so some of our most efficient attacking play when Dichio was upfront, and provided both focus and a pivot for the attack. Clearly the team was full of other problems, but his presence allowed for the team to attack in a logical manner. De Ro was clearly our greatest offensive threat, but much of what he did was individual effort and skill. In some way I would like to see a De Ro type behind a real quality DP. It is a simple but effective was of playing.


* A good DM CM, knows too read the game so that he can support the attack without sacrificing defensive positioning, meaning he will come forward when opportune and know to get back to defend without being left behind by a counter.

OgtheDim
08-19-2013, 12:06 PM
Question cause I can`t remember. Did Brennan attack the ball? He is, technically, the defenders coach.

trane
08-19-2013, 12:16 PM
Jloome, what I was always taught, always try to intercept the ball first, kill the attack before it starts, but never do it unless you are sure that you will get there, or someone is covering you, as far as defensive positioning, always stay between the attacker and the net, then work to cut space until you can win the ball.

v00d00daddy
08-19-2013, 12:29 PM
Jloome, what I was always taught, always try to intercept the ball first, kill the attack before it starts, but never do it unless you are sure that you will get there, or someone is covering you, as far as defensive positioning, always stay between the attacker and the net, then work to cut space until you can win the ball.

Totally agree. It's a skill that takes more brains than physical ability. Caldwell seems to do it quite well.

Henry needs to learn this skill and he'll be fine.

Ecks and Morgan seem incapable. Once they get a little older and lose a step they'll be doomed.

A good defender lays in wait, makes the attacking player think an option is there, and then snuffs it out before it can materialise in to anything.

Trane...the intelligent player we need is a guy just like higuain. If we had a general like that...that can attack, hold up balls, AND distribute, we'd be in much better shape.

ensco
08-19-2013, 12:30 PM
Is it coaching or personnel? We just seem lacking in team speed, except for Osorio and Laba.

Richard
08-19-2013, 12:44 PM
Is it coaching or personnel? We just seem lacking in team speed, except for Osorio and Laba.

The realistic answer is its both. It is for sure personnel as we don't have capable players, and its also a bit of coaching because Nelson is inexperienced, team still doesn't do some of the fundamentals right.

ag futbol
08-19-2013, 01:29 PM
Is it coaching or personnel? We just seem lacking in team speed, except for Osorio and Laba.
That's funny I just posted the same thing about our lack of pace in the roster thread. I'm not caught up on having a fast team, but we should probably have someone who can challenge for pace.

I don't want to give a firm opinion on this coaching staff until the end of the season but let me say this: Ryan Nelson's lack of experience isn't making life any easier.

Dreadlocks
08-19-2013, 01:52 PM
Haven't checked the entire thread but did anyone else notice Henry and Earnshaw going at it in the first half? Henry got the ball caught up in his feet in the 6 yard box and if he looked up he would have found Earnshaw in space at the top of the 18. He decided to try to turn to get a shot off instead and had it blocked and kicked the defender in his chest on the follow through.

If it was an argument on the field between them I would ask Earnshaw what he expects from a 21 year old centre back in a scoring position. Some of the most experienced centre backs don't make the right choice in the attacking penalty area - that's not their job! Earnshaw should be called out for HIS lack of finishing in the area. He's missed a tonne of sitters this year iirc.

Did anyone else pick this out?

OgtheDim
08-19-2013, 01:56 PM
...

Did anyone else pick this out?

Yes, a few comments at the time.

Me, I though Earnshaw at the time called out Henry for stopping with the play after he kicked the guy in the chest. We had the ball in their area and Henry looked down and reached towards the guy on the ground rather then continue with the play.

But, on hindshight, ur probably right. Although every forward wants the ball, Henry is going to be useless in the box until he gets some years behind him. Earnshaw should know better.

trane
08-19-2013, 03:16 PM
Totally agree. It's a skill that takes more brains than physical ability. Caldwell seems to do it quite well.

Henry needs to learn this skill and he'll be fine.

Ecks and Morgan seem incapable. Once they get a little older and lose a step they'll be doomed.

A good defender lays in wait, makes the attacking player think an option is there, and then snuffs it out before it can materialise in to anything.

Trane...the intelligent player we need is a guy just like higuain. If we had a general like that...that can attack, hold up balls, AND distribute, we'd be in much better shape.

Agreed. Maybe we can try for his little brother, Gonzalo.


If you have speed, as a defender you should use it too neutralize the play early, not to catch up to people, sooner or later you will not be able too. Ecks, has always been troubleshooting for me. He has the want, and physically he has the tools, but always too aggressive and gets caught.

Jeff s
08-19-2013, 05:42 PM
Haven't checked the entire thread but did anyone else notice Henry and Earnshaw going at it in the first half? Henry got the ball caught up in his feet in the 6 yard box and if he looked up he would have found Earnshaw in space at the top of the 18. He decided to try to turn to get a shot off instead and had it blocked and kicked the defender in his chest on the follow through.

If it was an argument on the field between them I would ask Earnshaw what he expects from a 21 year old centre back in a scoring position. Some of the most experienced centre backs don't make the right choice in the attacking penalty area - that's not their job! Earnshaw should be called out for HIS lack of finishing in the area. He's missed a tonne of sitters this year iirc.

Did anyone else pick this out?

I saw the incident as well.

TBH, I found it ironic that Earnshaw was complaining. He's the one who has a habit of getting the ball and keeping his head down.


As for the game itself, every single player was poor. Nelson also didn't seem to change anything tactically, especially trying to prevent Oduro from using his speed and not closing down Higuain at all.

metaxa
08-19-2013, 07:51 PM
Yes, a few comments at the time.

Me, I though Earnshaw at the time called out Henry for stopping with the play after he kicked the guy in the chest. We had the ball in their area and Henry looked down and reached towards the guy on the ground rather then continue with the play.

But, on hindshight, ur probably right. Although every forward wants the ball, Henry is going to be useless in the box until he gets some years behind him. Earnshaw should know better.

I thought the same.. cause Henry stopped playing... I thought Earnshaw was telling him to keep playing... deal with it after the plays dead... that's just me... you keep goimg till the ref blows the whistle... its pretty basic

jloome
08-19-2013, 09:13 PM
Question cause I can`t remember. Did Brennan attack the ball? He is, technically, the defenders coach.

He was actually a winger at the start of his career and moved to fullback when he got slower. And his positioning was routinely awful, always pinching in too tight to the box in the defensive end and rarely getting a serious challenge in on a cross. The idea of keeping his guy out wide and marking him out of the play without overplaying him would have been pretty much lost on him.

And Trane's right -- if you're positioned properly, between the man you're marking out and the ball, you're usually going to win it. I will note on Henry's error on the first one that he had position on his player, but he was still our closest defender to the ball, so he had to attack it. Plain and simple he got caught ball watching.

I'm a little cooler headed about the whole thing today than I was over the last two days (ranting at Usector at the board was down, lol) but I do think they're either being exceptionally patient in how they address fundamental problems or there are deeper issues.

69Chevy396
08-20-2013, 06:24 AM
He was actually a winger at the start of his career and moved to fullback when he got slower. And his positioning was routinely awful, always pinching in too tight to the box in the defensive end and rarely getting a serious challenge in on a cross. The idea of keeping his guy out wide and marking him out of the play without overplaying him would have been pretty much lost on him.

And Trane's right -- if you're positioned properly, between the man you're marking out and the ball, you're usually going to win it. I will note on Henry's error on the first one that he had position on his player, but he was still our closest defender to the ball, so he had to attack it. Plain and simple he got caught ball watching.

I'm a little cooler headed about the whole thing today than I was over the last two days (ranting at Usector at the board was down, lol) but I do think they're either being exceptionally patient in how they address fundamental problems or there are deeper issues.
The deeper issue is clear to me; would mlse hire a defenceman who played his entire career in Switzerland, and having never managed a team, be hired to coach the Leafs?

miker
08-20-2013, 06:57 AM
The deeper issue is clear to me; would mlse hire a defenceman who played his entire career in Switzerland, and having never managed a team, be hired to coach the Leafs?

To be fair, MLS is not the NHL of soccer, English Premiership is hardly Switzerland and Nelsen has played in MLS and knows the league. Mixed results so far but it may work out.

jloome
08-20-2013, 01:11 PM
The deeper issue is clear to me; would mlse hire a defenceman who played his entire career in Switzerland, and having never managed a team, be hired to coach the Leafs?

I don't disagree. But with a past as turbulent as ours, we are now wedded to it for at least two years.

Even MLSsoccer.com questioned this week in the team rankings why TFC doesn't seem to be addressing basic technique issues:

"
http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/default/files/toronto_150.png
Obviously, they could be playing out the season at this point, but in addition to giving the younger guys minutes, Ryan Nelsen and his coaching staff need to work on specific skills with his group, especially on the defensive end."

Specific skills. Specific tactical movement. Right now we're not even at that point.

To me, that's as much a failure of the coaches. Even relatively workman like teams like San Jose and Columbus can put together flow, recognize positional responsibilities broader that "this is your zone."

But there's just no point starting again now. We all know that. There have been examples in the past of coaches learning quickly on the job, and that's what we have to hope for. We also need to recognize that both Payne and Lieweke have come under some pretty fair criticism as well in the past, and that the verdict is out there, as well. If they land a couple of crackerjack DPs and strengthen the team significantly before the end of next seasons' preseason, that'll make the learning curve easier on Nelsen and O'Leary.

Oh, and the analogy's a bit flawed; Nelsen played in MLS for several seasons.

TFC07
08-20-2013, 01:22 PM
Next season is do or die situation for Nelsen and co. I get the feeling if Lewieke gets the big name players he wants, then he might go after a big name manager to manage the team This is where is there's going to be a conflict between Lewieke and Payne which will result in Nelsen and co getting fired or demoted to academy, scout or USL team.

T-boy
08-20-2013, 01:25 PM
I saw the incident as well.

TBH, I found it ironic that Earnshaw was complaining. He's the one who has a habit of getting the ball and keeping his head down.


As for the game itself, every single player was poor. Nelson also didn't seem to change anything tactically, especially trying to prevent Oduro from using his speed and not closing down Higuain at all.

I actually think Earnie is right/ok for complaining at Henry. Equally, if Earnie came back to defend, tackled badly and gave away a penalty, Henry would have the right to shout at Earnshaw for doing "his" (Henry's) job badly for him.

All good strikers are selfish asshats really, and that's what makes them good strikers!

69Chevy396
08-20-2013, 02:12 PM
I don't disagree. But with a past as turbulent as ours, we are now wedded to it for at least two years.

Even MLSsoccer.com questioned this week in the team rankings why TFC doesn't seem to be addressing basic technique issues:

"
http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/default/files/toronto_150.png
Obviously, they could be playing out the season at this point, but in addition to giving the younger guys minutes, Ryan Nelsen and his coaching staff need to work on specific skills with his group, especially on the defensive end."

Specific skills. Specific tactical movement. Right now we're not even at that point.

To me, that's as much a failure of the coaches. Even relatively workman like teams like San Jose and Columbus can put together flow, recognize positional responsibilities broader that "this is your zone."

But there's just no point starting again now. We all know that. There have been examples in the past of coaches learning quickly on the job, and that's what we have to hope for. We also need to recognize that both Payne and Lieweke have come under some pretty fair criticism as well in the past, and that the verdict is out there, as well. If they land a couple of crackerjack DPs and strengthen the team significantly before the end of next seasons' preseason, that'll make the learning curve easier on Nelsen and O'Leary.

Oh, and the analogy's a bit flawed; Nelsen played in MLS for several seasons.
I didnt know he played for DC. I should
have wiki'd this, but why in the world would a pro club recruit an unproven, inexperienced coach? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I know there are exceptions (gattuso), but this organization was, and remains, in desperate need of solid management particularly after what we have endured these past 7 years.

Initial B
08-20-2013, 02:25 PM
It all comes back to the fact that no coach would touch this club with a 10-foot pole at the start of the season. Who would want to go to a club where no coach has lasted more than 1 season? There was too much history of Anselmi and not enough of Payne to be able look past. However, after Nelsen's contract runs out, at least TFC can say it has had some stability that they can point to for potential future coaches.

spark
08-20-2013, 02:44 PM
It all comes back to the fact that no coach would touch this club with a 10-foot pole at the start of the season. Who would want to go to a club where no coach has lasted more than 1 season? There was too much history of Anselmi and not enough of Payne to be able look past. However, after Nelsen's contract runs out, at least TFC can say it has had some stability that they can point to for potential future coaches.

I used to think that too but know from 2011 even up to before Nelsen was hired, experienced coaches both in Italy and Germany were interested in coming here and quite simply their calls were never returned.

trane
08-20-2013, 06:14 PM
He was actually a winger at the start of his career and moved to fullback when he got slower. And his positioning was routinely awful, always pinching in too tight to the box in the defensive end and rarely getting a serious challenge in on a cross. The idea of keeping his guy out wide and marking him out of the play without overplaying him would have been pretty much lost on him.

And Trane's right -- if you're positioned properly, between the man you're marking out and the ball, you're usually going to win it. I will note on Henry's error on the first one that he had position on his player, but he was still our closest defender to the ball, so he had to attack it. Plain and simple he got caught ball watching.

I'm a little cooler headed about the whole thing today than I was over the last two days (ranting at Usector at the board was down, lol) but I do think they're either being exceptionally patient in how they address fundamental problems or there are deeper issues.

I did not realize that Brennan was the defensive coach, I would never have thought of him as someone that I would pick to be one.

jloome
08-20-2013, 06:22 PM
I used to think that too but know from 2011 even up to before Nelsen was hired, experienced coaches both in Italy and Germany were interested in coming here and quite simply their calls were never returned.

This is the larger issue. This team has suffered under corporate egos who want to constantly re-invent the wheel instead of hiring experience and buying solid players. Instead we've had experimental coaches and cast-off "talents" whose careers they've tried to resurrect. I remember a Southampton fan back about a decade ago telling me about the next big thing to come out of his team's youth squad. "Leandre Griffit will tear the Premier League a new one," he said, or something along those lines.

Yeesh.

The latest example of this, to me, was the two Canadians in the draft.[ One good combine for Bekker seemed to be all it took, as neither was rated anywhere near their selection point before the draft and with Kekuteh Manneh, Andrew Farrell, Deshorn Brown and DIllon Powers all see as "can't miss" I sort of wonder why we didn't get one of them.

Oh that's right: we didn't need help right away. Apparently.

maninb
08-21-2013, 08:29 PM
It all comes back to the fact that no coach would touch this club with a 10-foot pole at the start of the season. Who would want to go to a club where no coach has lasted more than 1 season? There was too much history of Anselmi and not enough of Payne to be able look past. However, after Nelsen's contract runs out, at least TFC can say it has had some stability that they can point to for potential future coaches.

There's not a manager on the planet who could have made this collection of twits a winner...We've never had ANYONE who can put the ball in the back of the net consistently....

OgtheDim
08-22-2013, 06:14 AM
There's not a manager on the planet who could have made this collection of twits a winner...We've never had ANYONE who can put the ball in the back of the net consistently....

Koevs strike rate in MLS in 2012 was every 131 minutes

It was 94 minutes in 2011, which is unheard of.

jloome
08-24-2013, 12:35 PM
Koevs strike rate in MLS in 2012 was every 131 minutes

It was 94 minutes in 2011, which is unheard of.

Consistently implies ... consistently. I can't say he's played for us enough to be called a consistent threat for us.