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Nerepis
08-04-2013, 05:59 AM
Match Day and I'm reporting to you live today from Gillette Stadium, Come on you Reds!

Nobody is safe at Toronto FC (http://www.torontosun.com/2013/08/03/nobody-is-safe-at-toronto-fc)

Payne: Toronto Keeping Tabs On Urruti (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2013/08/payne-toronto-keeping-tabs-urruti)

Osorio a star in the making for Toronto FC (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/osorio-a-star-in-the-making-for-toronto-fc/)

Rookie midfielder Osorio continues to turn heads at Toronto FC (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/rookie-midfielder-osorio-continues-to-turn-heads-at-toronto-fc/article13587998/)




...and some bonus coverage from the Revolution's web site:


After back-to-back road wins, Revolution returns home to host Toronto FC (http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/news/features/2013/08/after-back-back-road-wins-revolution-returns-home-host-toronto-fc)

Revolution TV Preview (http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/video/2013/08/02/tv-preview-tfc)



Toronto FC TV (http://www.torontofc.ca/video)

TFC/MLS blogs thread (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread/page41)

Sunshine Girl (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)

Auzzy
08-04-2013, 08:42 AM
Wow, it's pretty quiet on here, most people except N sleeping in today...

Thanks N!

Although it was clear the squad from last year needed major improvements, I don't really like Payne's tone, in terms of none of the starters from the beginning of the season still being on the field at the end of the year. (It's in the Larson article, and I also heard it directly in the video of Payne's interview.) It's really nothing for the club to be proud of. The constant turnover has been one of the biggest problems for 7 years. Looking at the first starting roster this year: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2013/03/reds-fall-short

I would hope Bendik will still be starting at the end of the year (unless they bring Frei back, but I don't see that happening). Ecks is still under contract, so he should still be on the field as well. There's been enough money & effort spent on improving the defense this year, and all the related defensive turmoil. If they move Ecks due to salary issues, I would hope it's in the off-season or at the end of his contract, no use messing around with that position during this season.

Current management re-signed Earnshaw, so he better be starting at the end of the year (unless it's Koevs plus a new guy up front). And what's up with Payne's supposed grand first draft pick, Kyle Bekker? Shouldn't Payne hope that Bekker works himself up into the starting roster by the end of the year? Even if it's unrealistic, I don't like Payne shooting his mouth off like that. (Shades of Mariner -- except that guy dissed another guy's draft pick; Payne is indirectly dissing his own draft pick.)

Also not sure what Payne means by "on the field." I would hope that Jeremy Hall for example is at least still on the bench at the end of the year. We need more MLS plumbers like that, not less, that can fill a role or provide solid cover off the bench.

And there's two sides to Payne's pronouncement that they will have very few guaranteed contracts tying them down as they move into next season. On the one hand, it means you have flexibility. On the other hand, it means you have no tradeable assets, especially to bring in more decent US players, which this team desperately needs.

Just feels like one of those of those situations where Payne says too much & too early for anyone's good. Why doesn't he talk a bit less, bring in those grand players he's always promising, then let those new (or the old) players convince through their play, and let the coach pick the squad accordingly. Comments like this can easily be more promises they can't keep, and I can't seem them being good for team morale. Will Hall, Morgan, Bekker, Ecks, Earnshaw and others try very hard, or build their own confidence, if management has already written them off publicly?

Oldtimer
08-04-2013, 11:25 AM
Although it was clear the squad from last year needed major improvements, I don't really like Payne's tone, in terms of none of the starters from the beginning of the season still being on the field at the end of the year.

I couldn't disagree more. These guys had a lot of time to prove that they were capable. They've proven the opposite. Football is results-oriented, and he is giving them final notice that a warm bench, or getting cut will be the end for someone who doesn't perform. Some of these guys can't perform at an MLS level, even if they try, and it is kindness to move them to a lower league where they can perform adequately.

Payne is actually proving what I wrote on May 21st, while some were panicking after a few losses:


Payne will tend to act rather than give platitudes like Winter, that's how he was in DC. What we are missing now are immediate results. This makes people fear that there will never be results, as irrational as that may be. I believe that much of this team will be gone by next year, so I'm not worried. The Summer transfer window will be key.

It was easy to see that a team that was at one point "worst in the world" and finished out of the playoffs with a long winless streak would have more than a few changes. If the players can't see that, they are not facing reality, and if any fans can't see that they are also not facing reality. As far as I see, nearly everyone from the starting XI last year are expendable.

mowe
08-04-2013, 11:56 AM
Well Auzzy what Payne said has already happened. Only Bendik and Ecks are starting from the beginning of the year. And the changes have been for the better. This team is moving in the right direction, but there's still a lot of work to be done to even get to mediocrity.

Auzzy
08-04-2013, 01:29 PM
Oldtimer, you had me at "football is results-oriented." But that counts for players, coaches, and management, including the current management. I'm fine with the rebuilding, I'm willing to be patient, and I want the club also to have an adequate amount of patience. I just wish Payne would sometimes let his own "results" do the talking, more than his mouth.

In terms of "results" of management, I feel there have been too many promises of signings and other grand plans that didn't materialize. Of course if they pull off some big ones this week, that helps -- but it still would have been better if they had talked less some of the previous times before things didn't work out. And the new guys that might be coming, still have to perform. I'm willing to wait to see if that happens, I've been very un-critical of managements efforts this year. Let's just all revisit at the end of the year and see those results!

Further in terms of results -- if Payne feels Bekker has no hope of starting by the end of the year, then why did Payne draft him first, 4th overall? Other draftees are doing much better. I realize that the draft is a crapshoot, I'm fine with Bekker not starting if he's not good enough. (Although usually the top 5 are pretty good bets.) I just wish the guy that hired Bekker, that had such high hopes for him (listen to his interview after the draft), wouldn't shoot his mouth off like that, and would also show a bit of humility.

The effects on morale and performance are debatable, especially about such public announcements. There are different schools of thought. The players already hear from their coaches and the world about their performances. They already hear lots of talk about trades, signings, etc. They see the turnover on the field. Therefore they are already under the gun. What use do comments like that from a suit help, when the players know the guy hasn't delivered yet on many of his own promises and predictions?

This is really tied to me wishing, for once, the club would try under-promising & over-delivering. I never liked the talk at the beginning of this season (and still recently), that playoffs this season are the goal, or that they "want to be in the conversation" for playoffs. They aren't, not even close. They were a horrible team with a horrible cap situation -- although some of the individual players aren't as bad as they are made out to be. (We see how TFC players often perform on other teams.) Probably that led to some of the short-term thinking, and a bunch of loan deals and early signings, the vast majority of which didn't pan out. I bet we chewed up a ton of cap space and allocation money with those short-term deals, that would be better used for other purposes. In the bigger picture, if we suck anyway, it might have been better to give some players like Bekker a bit more playing time, see if they can't improve over time, and then replace them if necessary, when you're ready with a long-term signing.

Yet I'm even OK with most of the loan deals etc. Maybe they were worth the risk. If they would just drop some of the grandiose talk.

Sure they can talk internally that playoffs are always the goal, set the bar high and push everyone to achieve that. I'm just so sick of hearing about it before seeing it on the field -- after seven years.

Actually I'll quote jloome here as well: "everyone would feel better it they accepted that this season was a write-off before it started." For me "they" includes coaches and management... at least publicly, even if within the team they always strive to do better.

Auzzy
08-04-2013, 01:39 PM
Well Auzzy what Payne said has already happened. Only Bendik and Ecks are starting from the beginning of the year. And the changes have been for the better. This team is moving in the right direction, but there's still a lot of work to be done to even get to mediocrity.

Well Payne said he can't see any of those guys starting at the end of the year.. That includes Bendik and Ecks. He should watch his mouth.

And Oldtimer, I'm not thinking about the starting XI of last year, but the starting XI of the beginning of this year.

mowe
08-04-2013, 02:09 PM
Well Payne said he can't see any of those guys starting at the end of the year.. That includes Bendik and Ecks. He should watch his mouth.

Actually he did mention "other than Joe Bendik" which was omitted in the Sun article. So yeah Payne missed Ecks, big deal. His point still stands; this team has already completely changed from the beginning of the year.

Saying they're aiming "to be in the conversation for playoffs" is as close as writing off the season as you can get. Top 5 of 10 teams make the playoffs in the East, you could argue 6, 7, maybe 8 fall under "conversation for playoffs". So basically the goal for this season was to not be one of the worst teams in the East while building for next year. Obviously, they've failed. No way they expected to be this bad. Then again they probably didn't expect the sheer number of late game collapses.

Evaluating whether they've succeeded in building for the future is still up for debate. Personally I think they've got some decent players to build around in Laba, Osorio, Bendik, Henry, Caldwell, and Ecks (on a lower salary). But we still another couple pieces that can be relied on as above-average MLS players. I'll wait until I see who else they bring in this window before judging that.

Mark in Ottawa
08-04-2013, 08:46 PM
Clint Dempsey joins Seattle Sounders ....
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/08/04/jeff-bradley-clint-dempseys-return-biggest-shock-move-mls-history

mr k
08-05-2013, 01:34 PM
And apparently, the 3 teams in the running for Dempsey were Seattle, LA & Toronto. But TFC bowed out in deference to having Clint play in the US. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130805/clint-dempsey-seattle-sounders-mls/?sct=sc_t11_a2