We may get a roof after all????

[tfcmanu]

http://metronews.ca/sports/746163/mlse-to-look-at-upgrading-bmo-field/

[Phil]

When I asked for a roof he laughed. However he was pretty intent on maybe filling in the corners with seats and getting the concourses fixed up. I told him most have to choose to either go to the washroom, or get food / a drink - you only have time for one thing.

He had a tough time with how busy it was in there.

[Haddy]

I was wondering how long it would take TL to mention facilities. I'd welcome any upgrades.

[Haddy]

Light bulb just went on! That's my one for the month, btw.

Naming rights were sold to BMO for 10 years, correct? Sooner than later either an extension will be signed or a new sponsor sought. I wonder if TL has that revenue in mind when it pertains to the upgrades he is talking about.

[tfcmanu]

When I asked for a roof he laughed. However he was pretty intent on maybe filling in the corners with seats and getting the concourses fixed up. I told him most have to choose to either go to the washroom, or get food / a drink - you only have time for one thing.

He had a tough time with how busy it was in there.

- More Washrooms
- Fill in the corners
- maybe concrete floors, I believe only parts of west side have this the rest aluminum.
- Make concourse bigger
- Winterize BMO.

[ag futbol]

When I asked for a roof he laughed. However he was pretty intent on maybe filling in the corners with seats and getting the concourses fixed up. I told him most have to choose to either go to the washroom, or get food / a drink - you only have time for one thing.

He had a tough time with how busy it was in there.
I thought the piece drawing the comparison to SKC was telling. If you ever get the chance, there is a video on youtube somewhere that tells all about the creation of Sporting Park, the different constituent groups they considered, the fan experience they were going for. They were incredibly smart in what they did, and they are truthfully considered a leader in North America in terms of the fan experience, and I mean that across all sports.

Really, BMO field is nothing more than a very cheap stadium in an excellent location. MLSE didn't have any vision of what the place was going to be 5-10 years out or (to be fair) know how TFC would change people's perceptions of soccer in North America.

They probably realize now (especially comparing themselves to SKC) that they are missing out in various regards. Weather is still an attendance killer at BMO field, it also prevents them from selling anything corporate en mass. So they probably want to expand the capabilities of the stadium to cater to a wider audience and make the place more enjoyable. I'm not sure how they can do that without undertaking a major Reno (like tearing down the west stand) but I'll be interested to see what happens.

Can't picture too many bad outcomes in this regard.

[Marc"2L"]

Hey look, stadium upgrades!

*points in direction away from transfer thread, runs*

smoke and mirror show now, anything but transfers.

[Wolves_On_Tour]

Here's an idea....the stadium is sponsored by a bank........SO GET SOME MORE GODDAMN BANK MACHINES IN THERE! Also, make sure those bank machines are not on a dial up modem.....OR.......allow for debit transactions on a speedy server.....just a thought






and a roof......I don't see why this is so difficult.

[TFC07]

They're going to have tear down BMO field to make it happen (I am sure they're going to add more seats as well).

[Oblio2]

Put on a roof...to enclose the crap on the field

[69Chevy396]

Put on a roof...to enclose the crap on the field Are they planning to install a Giant Stadium style area devoted to statues, fountains and placques commemorating all the great TFC players of the past?

[BuSaPuNk]

^ What so Liewikie can take them all down? lol

[Haddy]

I thought the piece drawing the comparison to SKC was telling. If you ever get the chance, there is a video on youtube somewhere that tells all about the creation of Sporting Park, the different constituent groups they considered, the fan experience they were going for. They were incredibly smart in what they did, and they are truthfully considered a leader in North America in terms of the fan experience, and I mean that across all sports.

Really, BMO field is nothing more than a very cheap stadium in an excellent location. MLSE didn't have any vision of what the place was going to be 5-10 years out or (to be fair) know how TFC would change people's perceptions of soccer in North America.

They probably realize now (especially comparing themselves to SKC) that they are missing out in various regards. Weather is still an attendance killer at BMO field, it also prevents them from selling anything corporate en mass. So they probably want to expand the capabilities of the stadium to cater to a wider audience and make the place more enjoyable. I'm not sure how they can do that without undertaking a major Reno (like tearing down the west stand) but I'll be interested to see what happens.

Can't picture too many bad outcomes in this regard.

Do you remember the original artist renderings for The Ex location? The one that came before the Varsity, York and Downsview proposals...only to return to the CNE as a watered-down version. It was beautiful compared to what was actually built. If memory serves, it was over the $110-million mark. Included canopy for all four main stands and I believe a modest hotel or restaurant. But public dollars killed that version pretty fast.

[OgtheDim]

This is why he was hired.
If the focus in on the whole experience, that can only be good. There were lineups for everything on Saturday for a game that was not full - well except the scarf booth and the pop up Bud can salespeople on the corners.

[69Chevy396]

^ What so Liewikie can take them all down? lol

Actually, a bad example. Didnt Giants stadium get demolished? Oh well, a new BMO would be nice, hopefully it will have far fewer seats to help make the place look full once in a while.

[sarsippius]

Seriously though - what is the complexity behind a roof? I don't know anything about how the City works, and I am certainly no expert in the economics of it, but I can't imagine this is a difficult thing to do. It would be expensive, but so is the lack of attendance caused by the folks who won't come in the rain. The weather can be hostile at BMO Field, and the way to offset that considerably is to put on a roof. I'd rather watch a game in the cold at BMO under a roof then another game at a stadium dedicated for Baseball - I think a good number of supporters would agree.

[Haddy]

Here are the original renderings of BMO Field....long before any other locations were discussed. Not as nice as I remember.

http://tinypic.com/ea455g.jpg
http://tinypic.com/ea4509.jpg

and the Varsity rendering:

http://i1.tinypic.com/noioms.jpg

[Areathrasher]

The RDS in Dublin, where the Leinster Rugby team play, added a roof to one of their stands pretty cheaply and quickly. The stand in question is similar in size to the East and South ends at BMO, don't see why something similar can't be done here.
Before
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/RDS_LEINSTER.jpg/250px-RDS_LEINSTER.jpg
During and Complete




http://www.theaa.ie/~/media/Images/AA%20Ireland/AA%20Roadwatch/Events/RDS%20Arena%20Grandstand.ashxhttp://www.leinsterrugby.ie/images/news/News-Grandstand.jpg

[ag futbol]

^ Looks ok, not particularly spectacular by today's standards.

On a non-soccer related note, I have no problem with the city holding back money. Public funds being plowed into sports stadiums doesn't really sit well with me.

[gdg_9]

- More Washrooms
- Fill in the corners
- maybe concrete floors, I believe only parts of west side have this the rest aluminum.
- Make concourse bigger
- Winterize BMO.

After the roof, these are the next two items that should be addressed!

It's ridiculous that our team's home facility is not available for the opening of our season!





Here's an idea....the stadium is sponsored by a bank........SO GET SOME MORE GODDAMN BANK MACHINES IN THERE! Also, make sure those bank machines are not on a dial up modem.....OR.......allow for debit transactions on a speedy server.....just a thought

and a roof......I don't see why this is so difficult.

I've often had this same thought... how is it that you have to wait in HUGE lines at one of the few ABM's at BMO Field??!!

[Haddy]

^ Looks ok, not particularly spectacular by today's standards.

On a non-soccer related note, I have no problem with the city holding back money. Public funds being plowed into sports stadiums doesn't really sit well with me.

Agreed. Every time I walk past the Dufferin Gate I remember how shocked I was that the politicians were so willing to build something they ultimately would never get to use in the long run. And that's exactly how it's worked out. MLSE just had to pay $10-million in exchange for the right to sell naming rights. They turned that 10 mil immediately around to BMO in an approx. $20-mil deal. Good business if you ask me.

IMO MLSE should buy the stadium from the city. Either way, I believe there's an understanding that MLSE has to cover any further upgrades.

[Mulder]

On a non-soccer related note, I have no problem with the city holding back money. Public funds being plowed into sports stadiums doesn't really sit well with me.

Cities and and levels of government don't invest in these structures just to lose money. The governments makes their money back pretty quickly, if it be income taxes, property taxes, taxes on event tickets, beer, concessions.

It's the choice between paying a construction worker lets say $1500~ a month to sit at home and collect EI, or pay him $3000+ a month to build a structure that will support more employment (income tax), to host more events (tax on tickets, concessions and liquor).
More employment is overall a good thing.

That being said, for the reasons above I can't see the gov pouring money into renovating a stadium that's 7? years old. Unless of course some of the new attendee's are screaming "Arrrrgoooosss"

Look what I started :P

[Solo La Maglia]

The concourse is absolutely dreadful. Washroom shortages is ridiculous. Biggest issues for me are winterization and roof. If we we were at downsview or York i't wouldn't be as bad but on the lakeshore the weather is just too much of an issue for too much of the season.

[razor787]

I might be mistaken, but since it is on exhibition grounds, I believe it must be owned by the city. I don't believe MLSE was allowed to build there without the cities hand being in it.

[69Chevy396]

If MLSE could acquire additional funding from coca cola along with some City funds, the new place could be renamed in honour of the mayor: Coke Field.

[prizby]

"They are phenomenal and we should all aspire to be Kansas City and Portland and Vancouver and now Montreal."

Aspire to them...hmm...3 out of the 4 teams allow their supporters to use smoke/flares; looks like TL might 'get it'

[Haddy]

I might be mistaken, but since it is on exhibition grounds, I believe it must be owned by the city. I don't believe MLSE was allowed to build there without the cities hand being in it.

The stadium is owned by the city. It was part of the deal when they offered the land. Any further expansion or upgrades is handled by the operator, in this case MLSE.

Let's all keep in mind that the original $62.5-million price tag included the land valuation. The structure itself was about 2/3 or 3/4 the final cost.

As for upgrades, I believe TL will focus on the south end because he values the atmosphere so highly. A rebuilt south-end integrated in to the west stand, complete with more luxury suites to bring the height level with the east and a modest canopy is coming. That and an improved concourse. You can quote me next year when they make the announcement.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If MLSE could acquire additional funding from coca cola along with some City funds, the new place could be renamed in honour of the mayor: Coke Field.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/10/article-1084563-0018F7B100000258-765_468x300.jpg


I believe this is what you're after.

But Coke is too classy for our Mayor...

[TOBOR !]

This is the club's fallback. If they fail to make any major signings before August 8th, they'll announce a roof the following week.

Then your new shirt can have the number 13 and the name 'Roof'.

[TFC_Allez]

Between this article and the picture tweeted by mayor Ford of Winnipeg's stadium...we might actually get something nice for a change. But you can kiss a high priced DP goodbye if we do get stadium upgrades.

[Phil]

I would be comfortable saying out of all the upgrades they talked about, the roof was on the definite 'NO' list. Especially on the south end.

[OgtheDim]

Between this article and the picture tweeted by mayor Ford of Winnipeg's stadium...we might actually get something nice for a change. ...

Rob was the only councillor to vote against the BMO deal. He's angling for a football specific stadium.

He would support MLSE putting money into BMO, but not city money.

[billyfly]

When I asked for a roof he laughed. However he was pretty intent on maybe filling in the corners with seats and getting the concourses fixed up. I told him most have to choose to either go to the washroom, or get food / a drink - you only have time for one thing.

He had a tough time with how busy it was in there.

And you didn't mention my gate?!

Unbelievable.

[Ultra & Proud]

I don't see the big deal with filling in the corners really especially with more seats when we can't fill what we have. I could see them putting in the Wifi thing and making a proper bar or whatever under the north stand like they have in KC. Getting it winterized and putting in more washrooms and bank machines are no brainers. I remember years ago (2008 or 2009) talking to someone TFC related who said they discussed ditching the shitting iron bars around the stadium for a brick wall. Toss some proper gates on that and that'd be a good look.

[ryan]

We aren't getting a roof. We're getting more words. TFC loves giving us words, they've been doing it for years.

[Joe Kool]

They should use their survey tool to ask people but I think they know the answer so why bother. I bet they could actually get people to vote 100% in favour of a roof....but alas just a dream I guess. Winterizing the place and better washrooms would be my realistic vote I guess. Would be nice to have warm water in there to wash your hands in early April instead of just cold. Bank machines I don't get...BMO has a temporary setup of the ABM machines for the season but they could put alot better infrastructure and more machines in there if they wanted to considering they make more on game day in service charges than some regular machines do in a month. I have heard the figure before but don't recall exactly. No reason not to do it.

[Haddy]

How about something really simple and cheap...

Enough hot chocolate, tea and coffee to meet demand on cold days. 7 years in 119 and I've had ONE hot chocolate. They are always sold out. Drives me bananas.

[brad]

I suspect if a roof ever did come (and it won't), it would be over the expensive seats to make the game more comfortable for the people paying the most money.

[Marc"2L"]

I would be comfortable saying out of all the upgrades they talked about, the roof was on the definite 'NO' list. Especially on the south end.

Maybe he laughed at it because its the clubs secret fall back "No Playoffs and at the bottom" plan. So he was hoping they didn't have to pull the trigger on it.

[Ryan1984]

They should looking at expanding the field size to allow for CFL football :troll:

[ag futbol]

Cities and and levels of government don't invest in these structures just to lose money. The governments makes their money back pretty quickly, if it be income taxes, property taxes, taxes on event tickets, beer, concessions.

It's the choice between paying a construction worker lets say $1500~ a month to sit at home and collect EI, or pay him $3000+ a month to build a structure that will support more employment (income tax), to host more events (tax on tickets, concessions and liquor).
More employment is overall a good thing.

That being said, for the reasons above I can't see the gov pouring money into renovating a stadium that's 7? years old. Unless of course some of the new attendee's are screaming "Arrrrgoooosss"

Look what I started :P
There is an absolute ton of empirical evidence out there showing you don't get the economic benefits the sports teams would like you to believe. There are a group of researchers / paid lobbyists out there that try to spin their yarn for every Olympics / world cup / NFL stadium / whatever. They're always caught ex-post being too optimistic and then back-peddle with talk of intangible benefits and things that can't be quantified. The true academics have so much mud and hard evidence behind their argument the other side is loathe to even acknowledge their existence.

Anyway, even if you want to argue about jobs etc there are alternate theories and better places to spend money. Public infrastructure has a much better payback and if you don't spend that money "in theory" you could say that money is more effectively allocated by individuals / private sector as opposed to taxed and redistributed by government.

[Richard]

I would be comfortable saying out of all the upgrades they talked about, the roof was on the definite 'NO' list. Especially on the south end.

Was there a reason?

[Mark in Ottawa]

After all this franchise has promised over the years and what it has actually delivered ...
I'll believe it when I see it.

[Couchy81]

upgrade the stadium all you want if the team still sucks it will still be empty. bmo will be back to its old sold out self if we make the playoffs even without an upgrade.

[Dave67]

Two pages in less than 8 hours on a fairly quiet message board. Yep, this distraction will work. I would move all of the vendors that are currently against the gate [fence] in the East stand physically out to the other side of the gate but with the actual counter top just inside BMO. The unopened gates are already there so I think this is doable. This would widen the East stand concourse by about 8 feet and should not cost very much at all. I'm sure licensing would need to change. They would only need to protect the vending staff from the elements as the entire East stand concourse would not be enlarged.

[Doucet3]

Fill the corners I think is the most realistic one along with bigger concourse and more washroom. I'd be really happy with these three atleast, that means north section get re built to have same slope degree as east and west stands, and south side extended up more ?

[ensco]

I actually respect Leiweke for his honesty on this. It's refreshing.

Over the years, we have had a belly full of drivel from both Anselmi and Beirne about the charms of this high-school-football-meccano-set stadium.

The supporters don't care, except for the roof issue, but that's a tiny fraction of the fans. For the majority, BMO is something to be endured. A reason not to come. It's horrible. For those who say, so what, it's ours, I know, I feel that way too. But that's not the objective reality for most people.

For a long time, many felt we should just be grateful. Which I understood, even if I didn't agree (BBTB, wherever you are, how I remember those debates!). But I think we can all agree that the statute of limitations on whatever gratitude should be felt has now passed.

I nearly cried when I went to Chicago and saw Toyota Park. I felt like Oliver Twist, who had been grateful for his morning gruel until he actually saw what most kids get for breakfast.

[glaze]

As stated by others its all smoke and mirrors. Unless MLSE transfers some players and has to use the money for stadium improvements I dont think it will happen. And I think a championship season is more likely to come before a roof.
Right now BMO is underutilized. It can't be used for anything other than soccer, or the occasional rugby match. They tried a concert there first year and never attempted one again.
The argos can't come in, though they'd love to. Where is the return on investment for stadium improvements?
Their first priority should be to winterize BMO, so that they don't have the hassle of opening the season in the Dome from now on.
Secondly, listen to the fans and make minor low-cost changes that improve the game day experience.
Thing is, all stadiums I've been to, when full, have jammed concourses and long concession lines. That said, the bank machine lines are comical, considering this is BMO field.
They also have to look outside the stadium. Public transit is a hassle. Some express busses from Bathurst or Dufferin would help. A new pedestrian crossing at the go station would make a huge difference too.
TL has been talking a lot this past week. I'll admit its nice hearing someone with a different take. But this is MLSE. I'll believe it when I see it.

[jazzy]

^ Looks ok, not particularly spectacular by today's standards.

On a non-soccer related note, I have no problem with the city holding back money. Public funds being plowed into sports stadiums doesn't really sit well with me.

yes I understand your point,.... but, respectfully, as far as tax dollars go it is a huge bang for your buck , giving a lot of not so RICH Torontonians some hard earned pleasure. I mean lets face it someone always has their hand in the trough and it is usually the wealthy and high priced civil servants 'pet' projects.....so a little for the working munions isn't so bad...esp after 'skydome'...............Iam a bit tired in this so unprogressive city of the old world thinking that no vision is the most cost efficient way to prosper . Spending $$$ in many ways creates wealth and/or healthy progressive environments into which to grow. Proof/... the slug like non-vision of our transit. If it had been done 20 years ago as it should have been , before the I don't want to spend crowd took hold , (but always cashed in their large pay cheques, btw) we'd have a paid for system , now....instead of looking tommorow at a nightmare billion dollar bill for essentially nothing......One has to have vision...you are either going backward or forward......

[jazzy]

I might be mistaken, but since it is on exhibition grounds, I believe it must be owned by the city. I don't believe MLSE was allowed to build there without the cities hand being in it.

isn't it a 100 year lease?

[Phil]

Was there a reason?

A guess....very poor return on investment. Any money spent either increasing the seats or encouraging sales: more washrooms, better concourse = more business. When you look at our record over the years, very few games actually are called due to weather. Although it could be argued covered seats would equal more people in the stands for longer, it wouldn't be something easily measurable and really for that 'out of the box' stadium there wasn't an engineered roof option for the type of winds we get.

[OgtheDim]

So the whole idea of a roof creating the acoustic presence that would bring a wall of sound (of sorts), and thus creating atmosphere that people would come out to be a part of, is not something he is familiar with.

Hopefully his scouts point out this about KC.

Put a few thousand people under a roof, have them sing, and people will sit in the North End just to hear that while watching the game.


Roofs are not about weather.

[Gilberto9]

I'm more concerned about the roof because of the atmosphere it is going to generate!

[Fort York Redcoat]

So the whole idea of a roof creating the acoustic presence that would bring a wall of sound (of sorts), and thus creating atmosphere that people would come out to be a part of, is not something he is familiar with.

Hopefully his scouts point out this about KC.

Put a few thousand people under a roof, have them sing, and people will sit in the North End just to hear that while watching the game.


Roofs are not about weather.



Let's remember that's not automatic...

[Canary10]

I actually respect Leiweke for his honesty on this. It's refreshing.

Over the years, we have had a belly full of drivel from both Anselmi and Beirne about the charms of this high-school-football-meccano-set stadium.

The supporters don't care, except for the roof issue, but that's a tiny fraction of the fans. For the majority, BMO is something to be endured. A reason not to come. It's horrible. For those who say, so what, it's ours, I know, I feel that way too. But that's not the objective reality for most people.

For a long time, many felt we should just be grateful. Which I understood, even if I didn't agree (BBTB, wherever you are, how I remember those debates!). But I think we can all agree that the statute of limitations on whatever gratitude should be felt has now passed.

I nearly cried when I went to Chicago and saw Toyota Park. I felt like Oliver Twist, who had been grateful for his morning gruel until he actually saw what most kids get for breakfast.

I agree. I went to a New York Red Bulls friendly against Tottenham last year at Red Bull Arena and that stadium makes you feel like you're at a big time, real football stadium. The stadium itself is an experience. BMO on the other hand makes you feel like you're back at your old youth pitch. If the stadium doesn't invoke a professional, big time feeling, the fans will think the whole team is mickey mouse.

[Super]

Roof should be #1 priority - and should be ANY supporters #1 wish as well.

Then FINALLY we may be able to hear the south end from anywhere in the stadium. Right now you can hardly hear in 112 what they're singing in 111 or 113. It's embarrassing.

[Canary10]

Roof should be #1 priority - and should be ANY supporters #1 wish as well.

Then FINALLY we may be able to hear the south end from anywhere in the stadium. Right now you can hardly hear in 112 what they're singing in 111 or 113. It's embarrassing.

Yup, that would be awesome. A roof should be priority number one if they want a gameday experience like KC's.

They should host some sort of brainstorming session with local architects and see what interesting stuff they could come up with to put in a roof.

[Haddy]

Roof should be #1 priority - and should be ANY supporters #1 wish as well.

Then FINALLY we may be able to hear the south end from anywhere in the stadium. Right now you can hardly hear in 112 what they're singing in 111 or 113. It's embarrassing.

I'm a big fan of a roof. But I will say one thing, a more entertaining product on the field will certainly help return the decibel level to past heights.

Question: Are there no bathrooms at the north end?? I only leave through that gate. But I've never seen one. Just wondering.

[gdg_9]

roof should be #1 priority - and should be any supporters #1 wish as well.

Then finally we may be able to hear the south end from anywhere in the stadium. Right now you can hardly hear in 112 what they're singing in 111 or 113. It's embarrassing.


++++ this

[Super]

I'm a big fan of a roof. But I will say one thing, a more entertaining product on the field will certainly help return the decibel level to past heights.

Question: Are there no bathrooms at the north end?? I only leave through that gate. But I've never seen one. Just wondering.

Past heights multiplied by 10 if we have a roof. Imagine how crazy loud that would be. BMO would become an insane experience - and that'll certainly bring back the crowd, and quicker than a DP ever could. However, it's important that the roof is not just any roof. It has to be built with the atmosphere in mind. That's smart. Let's hope TFC under Leiweke is smarter as well.

[Haddy]

Past heights multiplied by 10 if we have a roof. Imagine how crazy loud that would be. BMO would become an insane experience - and that'll certainly bring back the crowd, and quicker than a DP ever could. However, it's important that the roof is not just any roof. It has to be built with the atmosphere in mind. That's smart. Let's hope TFC under Leiweke is smarter as well.

BMO was pretty insane when there was passion. Wins fix that pretty fast. But I totally agree that a roof is a great amplifier. Read my post on page 1, where a little overexcited Haddy predicted an announcement next year.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Roof should be #1 priority - and should be ANY supporters #1 wish as well.

Then FINALLY we may be able to hear the south end from anywhere in the stadium. Right now you can hardly hear in 112 what they're singing in 111 or 113. It's embarrassing.


Past heights multiplied by 10 if we have a roof. Imagine how crazy loud that would be. BMO would become an insane experience - and that'll certainly bring back the crowd, and quicker than a DP ever could. However, it's important that the roof is not just any roof. It has to be built with the atmosphere in mind. That's smart. Let's hope TFC under Leiweke is smarter as well.


Completely disagree. I would welcome a roof but what gets people singing is when we're in the game. And embarrassing? One doesn't have to visit the stadium to see embarrassing play. That should be a supporters #1 priority.

[Canary10]

^ We've actually been in almost every game at BMO...

[Super]

Completely disagree. I would welcome a roof but what gets people singing is when we're in the game. And embarrassing? One doesn't have to visit the stadium to see embarrassing play. That should be a supporters #1 priority.

Better play is obviously a higher priority, always. But in terms of the stadium the #1 improvement wanted by supporters should be the roof.

I grew up supporting a team in a stadium with a proper roof, and we were loud as fuck. Way, way louder. No comparison. It's infectious too. I've now supported TFC from day one. 250 guys under a roof can out-sing the entire south end ANY DAY of the week. We've been shit and as a result the atmosphere has been shit. But problem is also that 50 people singing in 112 can't be heard anywhere. Not even in the top of 112. Slap a roof on there and the same 50 will sound like 500 - and people in the stadium will be able to hear it. That gets others going. No point in joining in on a song you can't hear.

Unfortunately I fear that a lot of people here settle for less all of the time. They'll say: roof is not what makes for a loud atmosphere, it's winning games. That's true, but a roof would make it even greater. Others will say that you don't need an experienced coach to win games, look at Kreis. That is true, but if ALL of our past coaches had experience I bet you we would have likely made the play-offs at least once. Let's set the bar a little higher and fix things where possible.

If supporters can push to get a roof and then make the atmosphere 10 times better - wins or no wins - then why not go for it?

[Yohan]

I'm no architectural genius, but I thought no roof for south end because of lack of space?

[Haddy]

I'm no architectural genius, but I thought no roof for south end because of lack of space?

There's room. I wonder about the sight lines though, for the folks in the southwest corner of the second deck.

[Brooker]

Here's an idea....the stadium is sponsored by a bank........SO GET SOME MORE GODDAMN BANK MACHINES IN THERE! Also, make sure those bank machines are not on a dial up modem.....OR.......allow for debit transactions on a speedy server.....just a thought





and a roof......I don't see why this is so difficult.

Muuuuuuuuch cheaper and faster to take out money before you get to the stadium.

[Super]

I think someone quoted a $40 million price-tag on putting on a roof.

Just get it done!

MLSE paid almost nothing for the stadium OR the franchise. It's a small price to pay for the atmosphere that will come as a result, and this is what made BMO a hot ticket in the first place anyway: the atmosphere.

[ManUtd4ever]

I'd gladly put up with no roof at BMO Field for the foreseeable future in exchange for witnessing some TFC victories on home soil.

[Wolves_On_Tour]

Muuuuuuuuch cheaper and faster to take out money before you get to the stadium.

Agreed, and that's what I do.
However, we have all had those days (most often night matches) when the bevie's seem to go down a little easier and more dosh is required.
Granted, I probably don't need more alcohol when this happens but getting money out for some street meat or a $13 dollar slice of stale pizza would be a nice option.

[Wolves_On_Tour]

The RDS in Dublin, where the Leinster Rugby team play, added a roof to one of their stands pretty cheaply and quickly. The stand in question is similar in size to the East and South ends at BMO, don't see why something similar can't be done here.
Before
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/RDS_LEINSTER.jpg/250px-RDS_LEINSTER.jpg
During and Complete




http://www.theaa.ie/~/media/Images/AA%20Ireland/AA%20Roadwatch/Events/RDS%20Arena%20Grandstand.ashxhttp://www.leinsterrugby.ie/images/news/News-Grandstand.jpg

I think that would be fantastic. Like Yohan, I am no architectural genius but I don't believe much space is required outside of the footprint BMO already sits on. Besides, the concourse area seems to have plenty of room for the supports I believe would be required for something like this.

[bones]

I'm no architectural genius, but I thought no roof for south end because of lack of space? Based on the cheaper build structure they went with (remember 67.5M) and the high winds off the lake they said a permanent roof wouldn't be physically possible. That's just from what I remember day one.

[OgtheDim]

Based on the cheaper build structure they went with (remember 67.5M) and the high winds off the lake they said a permanent roof wouldn't be physically possible. That's just from what I remember day one.

So it would require a rebuild? Yeah, not an MLSE priority.

[TFC_Allez]

Based on the cheaper build structure they went with (remember 67.5M) and the high winds off the lake they said a permanent roof wouldn't be physically possible. That's just from what I remember day one.

There's a canopy roof over the stage of the amphitheater isn't there? And the stage directly faces the lake... If that's the BS they tried to feed us, as you recall, then they really did pull a fast one.

They built BMO so bare bones due to the city and MLSE not having any faith in the viability of the league and/or the franchise. This "let's see how it goes" mentality seems to have permeated through the ranks of TFC and are probably part of the reason why management has made so many shitty short sighted decisions.

Working in the construction and engineering field, I've seen what a little bit of vision and some cash can do. That being said, putting a roof on BMO Field would not present many challenges that modern engineers and architects wouldn't be able to solve. If MLSE wants to pony-up the cash and get the blessing from the city...it'll only be a matter of time.

[TFC07]

They're not going to put a roof unless they're done expanding seating capacity of BMO field. It will be stupid and very shortsighted for MLSE to put a roof now. Putting a roof should be the last thing you do once other upgrades are done. Right now, one number concern should be more washrooms, cover corners with seats and have more space for vendors so walking around the stadium is easier for the fans.

EDIT: I forgot to add winterized BMO field to the list.

[Super]

Well, I wouldn't expect MLSE to put a roof on BMO anyway. They've shown themselves to improve everything BUT the football (team or atmosphere) since day one.

[bones]

So it would require a rebuild? Yeah, not an MLSE priority.

Not a CITY priority. If ML$E wants to do any changes they must work with the City of Toronto. It's NEVER easy dealing with the City and any changes require full cooperation.

[bones]

There's a canopy roof over the stage of the amphitheater isn't there? And the stage directly faces the lake... If that's the BS they tried to feed us, as you recall, then they really did pull a fast one.

They built BMO so bare bones due to the city and MLSE not having any faith in the viability of the league and/or the franchise. This "let's see how it goes" mentality seems to have permeated through the ranks of TFC and are probably part of the reason why management has made so many shitty short sighted decisions.

Working in the construction and engineering field, I've seen what a little bit of vision and some cash can do. That being said, putting a roof on BMO Field would not present many challenges that modern engineers and architects wouldn't be able to solve. If MLSE wants to pony-up the cash and get the blessing from the city...it'll only be a matter of time.

I wouldn't equate the supporting structures of the amphitheater and BMO. One was designed to amplify sound with no massive supporting capacity the other massive jumping supporting capacity with no overhang. Sometimes you can just put up a lightweight roof and sometimes you can't. They told us it wasn't designed to hold a roof that would need to stand up to the winds and based on how the structure currently is I wouldn't have any reason not to believe them. Now, could they add in the necessary support structure? Of course they could, but as others have said, if you're planning on adding a 2nd tier in the way off future then don't waste the money now.

[bones]

I think it would be killer to have ML$E build their own stadium at Ontario place with capacity and roof and grass and winterized yadda yadda but just as with this thread, we're all dreaming at this point. Since the primary purpose for the National Soccer Stadium (real name of BeeMoh) isn't being realized (Men's and Women's national team hardly call this place home) maybe if ML$E built their own the Argonothings could revamp the south and north ends to expand it to fit their needs.

[Super]

I think it would be killer to have ML$E build their own stadium at Ontario place with capacity and roof and grass and winterized yadda yadda but just as with this thread, we're all dreaming at this point. Since the primary purpose for the National Soccer Stadium (real name of BeeMoh) isn't being realized (Men's and Women's national team hardly call this place home) maybe if ML$E built their own the Argonothings could revamp the south and north ends to expand it to fit their needs.

That would be ideal. Build a brand new stadium for TFC in place of Ontario Place, and then hand over BMO to the Argos.

[Richard]

Maybe with our crack pot mayor MLSE could convince him to give cash for a new stadium, we know Rob likes his Football so you never know.

[bones]

Maybe with our crack pot mayor MLSE could convince him to give cash for a new stadium, we know Rob likes his Football so you never know.

I have suggested it many times ;)

[TFC_Allez]

I think it would be killer to have ML$E build their own stadium at Ontario place with capacity and roof and grass and winterized yadda yadda but just as with this thread, we're all dreaming at this point. Since the primary purpose for the National Soccer Stadium (real name of BeeMoh) isn't being realized (Men's and Women's national team hardly call this place home) maybe if ML$E built their own the Argonothings could revamp the south and north ends to expand it to fit their needs.

I like this. If only it was possible.

[Haddy]

Maybe with our crack pot mayor MLSE could convince him to give cash for a new stadium, we know Rob likes his Football so you never know.

The only existing team in this town that will get a new stadium in the next decade is the Argos. There is absolutely no realistic reason for TFC to leave BMO Field. They'll improve it, whatever that means, and go from there.

I do hope that TL sends his team to more than just Sporting Park. I can think of a handful of good MLS stadiums they should learn from - and that includes the new one being built in San Jose.

If this is anything like how they did research for the KIA Training Ground, I have faith they'll make some good choices.

[bones]

but but but, my dream of TFC's 26k covered stadium...

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=eb256e7e601c51d36384eb7b5b87e7f8

[Super]

but but but, my dream of TFC's 26k covered stadium...

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=eb256e7e601c51d36384eb7b5b87e7f8

That looks like it could be a fantastic football stadium. That's something we can all be proud of.

[Cashcleaner]

Hey look, stadium upgrades!

*points in direction away from transfer thread, runs*

smoke and mirror show now, anything but transfers.

Yeah, I gotta agree. Look, where is the logic in spending a couple million dollars upgrading a facility that is struggling to get people through the turnstiles? It looked like there was all of 15,000 at the game against New York last weekend, so I have my doubts they are going to install more seats that people won't purchase tickets for.

[Super]

Yeah, I gotta agree. Look, where is the logic in spending a couple million dollars upgrading a facility that is struggling to get people through the turnstiles? It looked like there was all of 15,000 at the game against New York last weekend, so I have my doubts they are going to install more seats that people won't purchase tickets for.

True - but to Leiweke's point, it's important that TFC look good in more ways than just on the pitch. We need to have a beautiful stadium - and not one of the worst in the entire league. We need to get past this whole "on a need basis" way of thinking - it's a loser mentality. Go for the Gold, go for the best stadium in the league, etc.. That's how you build a winning mentality.

[Dave67]

Maybe they can build the roof out of all the historical pictures of past Leaf greats that Tim wants out of the ACC? A patchwork quilt roof made of all images from when Toronto sports teams were winners. Then you could look up to the sky and pray for a win before games and the faces of players who actually won could look down on you.

[Wolves_On_Tour]

Maybe they can build the roof out of all the historical pictures of past Leaf greats that Tim wants out of the ACC? A patchwork quilt roof made of all images from when Toronto sports teams were winners. Then you could look up to the sky and pray for a win before games and the faces of players who actually won could look down on you.

:rofl:
Don't forget our lengthy list of illustrious greats at TFC!

[Ultra & Proud]

:rofl:
Don't forget our lengthy list of illustrious greats at TFC!

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/519232/alombardo.jpg

[Red I]

True - but to Leiweke's point, it's important that TFC look good in more ways than just on the pitch. We need to have a beautiful stadium - and not one of the worst in the entire league. We need to get past this whole "on a need basis" way of thinking - it's a loser mentality. Go for the Gold, go for the best stadium in the league, etc.. That's how you build a winning mentality.

Thank you... all this talk about ROI regarding a roof, it's apples and oranges. We have a huge international market here, and this stadium is not up to snuff. A roof will not increase revenue, but it's part of a bigger picture on marketing this brand that men in suits don't understand. Trying to get the best out of a little is short-sighted. If you want to attract players, be receognized globally, you shoot the moon

[PopePouri]

The only way we're going to get real investment is if we get the possible World Cup bid in 2026.

[Haddy]

Yeah, I gotta agree. Look, where is the logic in spending a couple million dollars upgrading a facility that is struggling to get people through the turnstiles? It looked like there was all of 15,000 at the game against New York last weekend, so I have my doubts they are going to install more seats that people won't purchase tickets for.

Devil's advocate for a moment. This story is from a larger interview that Davidson had with TL. Davidson simply staggered the publishing. Seems like that anyway.

And amount of tickets sold and matchday attendance are two different things. There are a huge amount of people in my section that still by their season tickets but don't show up. I'm not saying it's impossible to buy a ticket these days, but the two don't represent each other.

That being said, I'm with you on the extra seats. Not needed.

[Red I]

The only way we're going to get real investment is if we get the possible World Cup bid in 2026.

TFC could have used the 2015 Pan Am games as a jumping off point, but that didn't happen

[bones]

I'd have to disagree with the "shoot for the moon" implication. This guy isn't shooting for the moon. The moon would be a new stadium that they own. The moon wouldn't be "Forlan" and "Kaka" they'd be "Rooney", "C. Ronaldo" and "Messi". THAT's the moon. Leiweke is a human puffer fish so far to me. The crap about taking down all historical photos at the ACC and now this? He's doing nothing but stomping around saying "look at me, look at me". I wish he's just take a back seat when it comes to all things TFC and let Mr. Payne do is work.

[Red I]

I'd have to disagree with the "shoot for the moon" implication. This guy isn't shooting for the moon. The moon would be a new stadium that they own. The moon wouldn't be "Forlan" and "Kaka" they'd be "Rooney", "C. Ronaldo" and "Messi". THAT's the moon. Leiweke is a human puffer fish so far to me. The crap about taking down all historical photos at the ACC and now this? He's doing nothing but stomping around saying "look at me, look at me". I wish he's just take a back seat when it comes to all things TFC and let Mr. Payne do is work.

EDIT: Shoot the Moon within reason... lol

You are right though, so far, alot of talk... put some real, tangible plans in place, and maybe i'll believe the things TL says, otherwise, may be getting a little too involved

[habstfc]

BMO is much louder for night games..play more night games.

[OgtheDim]

TFC could have used the 2015 Pan Am games as a jumping off point, but that didn't happen

We could have used the Women's World Cup but the city decided to not compete with itself....which it wouldn't have but Joe Pantalone has not always been known for being the smartest of dudes (apparently it was his call).

[cmonyoureds]

I'd have to disagree with the "shoot for the moon" implication. This guy isn't shooting for the moon. The moon would be a new stadium that they own. The moon wouldn't be "Forlan" and "Kaka" they'd be "Rooney", "C. Ronaldo" and "Messi". THAT's the moon. Leiweke is a human puffer fish so far to me. The crap about taking down all historical photos at the ACC and now this? He's doing nothing but stomping around saying "look at me, look at me". I wish he's just take a back seat when it comes to all things TFC and let Mr. Payne do is work.

GENIUS! This is a quote of the year IMO.
If I was any good at these computer thingeys I'd be super imposing his face onto a picture of one fully blown up for the game this weekend!

Tim the human puffer fish!!!!

[Cashcleaner]

Devil's advocate for a moment. This story is from a larger interview that Davidson had with TL. Davidson simply staggered the publishing. Seems like that anyway.

And amount of tickets sold and matchday attendance are two different things. There are a huge amount of people in my section that still by their season tickets but don't show up. I'm not saying it's impossible to buy a ticket these days, but the two don't represent each other.

That being said, I'm with you on the extra seats. Not needed.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. But looking at things long-term, is that state of affairs going to continue? Are people going to keep on buying season tickets or multi-packs if they don't intend on going to games? Yes, we're always going to have a gap between tickets sold and tickets used, but I suspect as overall attendance decreases, that gap will get a little smaller.

[Mark in Ottawa]

I often wonder how many holders of multiple season seats in the past have reverted to holding just one as a sort of placeholder so that they can say "I have been here since the beginning". As so they can look to add extra seats once if/when the franchise turns around and becomes an "in demand" ticket once again.

A roof might be nice. It might be necessary to amplify the noise coming out of a dwindling supporters section. But a competing and hopefully winning team should come first.

[Jeff s]

BMO is much louder for night games..play more night games.
I still don't get why tfc makes us play in a hot summer afternoon. The team is bad enough, watching them in a hot summer day makes them even worse and the fans energy also suffers.
No logic from this team.

[billyfly]

I still don't get why tfc makes us play in a hot summer afternoon. The team is bad enough, watching them in a hot summer day makes them even worse and the fans energy also suffers.
No logic from this team.

Chicks in less clothing.

[Redcoe15]

I still don't get why tfc makes us play in a hot summer afternoon. The team is bad enough, watching them in a hot summer day makes them even worse and the fans energy also suffers.
No logic from this team.


Chicks in less clothing.

Good enough for me. :thumbsup: :ihih:

[Hustle]

This article in Business week that came out this week explains exactly why MLSE are all hot and horny about "upgrading" BMO. It has nothing to do with a roof and everything to do with $$$ as usual:

“When you walk into the stadium, I’ll know everything about you—the serial number on your phone, the IP addresses you’re accessing, whether you buy something to eat,” Heineman says. “If I know that every time you come to a game you’re getting three beers and two hot dogs, maybe the next game I’ll offer you an all-inclusive package for an extra seven bucks.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-18/sporting-kansas-city-makes-the-stadium-more-like-your-couch

[Couchy81]

This article in Business week that came out this week explains exactly why MLSE are all hot and horny about "upgrading" BMO. It has nothing to do with a roof and everything to do with $$$ as usual:

“When you walk into the stadium, I’ll know everything about you—the serial number on your phone, the IP addresses you’re accessing, whether you buy something to eat,” Heineman says. “If I know that every time you come to a game you’re getting three beers and two hot dogs, maybe the next game I’ll offer you an all-inclusive package for an extra seven bucks.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-18/sporting-kansas-city-makes-the-stadium-more-like-your-couch

Interesting article.

If TFC get something similar in place maybe they will mine enough data to figure out the fans want a roof

[Alixir]

Based on the cheaper build structure they went with (remember 67.5M) and the high winds off the lake they said a permanent roof wouldn't be physically possible. That's just from what I remember day one.
I call bullshit on that. Whoever first said that is blowing wind out their arse. You should see the architecture we have here in Japan built in tighter spaces and made to withstand earthquakes and typhoons. In the world of structural engineering anything is possible...if you are willing to pay the right price. Putting a roof over that existing structure that could withstand the "high winds" that come off the lake in the small footprint that the stadium has would be a lot easier than many are led to believe.

[OgtheDim]

This article in Business week that came out this week explains exactly why MLSE are all hot and horny about "upgrading" BMO. It has nothing to do with a roof and everything to do with $$$ as usual:

“When you walk into the stadium, I’ll know everything about you—the serial number on your phone, the IP addresses you’re accessing, whether you buy something to eat,” Heineman says. “If I know that every time you come to a game you’re getting three beers and two hot dogs, maybe the next game I’ll offer you an all-inclusive package for an extra seven bucks.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-18/sporting-kansas-city-makes-the-stadium-more-like-your-couch


Not surprising given KC is run by the people running a Health Care tech company.

What they should do is make all in stadium purchases available through a reloadable TFC/MLSE card. Make it really scary and you could auto reload it. It would track all your purchases down to where in the building.

Unfortunately, I think that might require a change in Ontario liquor laws.

[Oldtimer]

This article in Business week that came out this week explains exactly why MLSE are all hot and horny about "upgrading" BMO. It has nothing to do with a roof and everything to do with $$$ as usual:

“When you walk into the stadium, I’ll know everything about you—the serial number on your phone, the IP addresses you’re accessing, whether you buy something to eat,” Heineman says. “If I know that every time you come to a game you’re getting three beers and two hot dogs, maybe the next game I’ll offer you an all-inclusive package for an extra seven bucks.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-18/sporting-kansas-city-makes-the-stadium-more-like-your-couch

Businesses all over are doing data mining these days. The plus side to consumers is better service. The plus to businesses is more $$$.


Interesting article.

If TFC get something similar in place maybe they will mine enough data to figure out the fans want a roof

One would hope. If they data mined our board, I think that "roof" would score near the top of mentions.

[Ultra & Proud]

I can see this High Density Wifi coming for sure along with that app.

[Canary10]

I am all in favour of being able to watch replays immediately on your phone with your own control. That would be great.

[Ultra & Proud]

I am all in favour of being able to watch replays immediately on your phone with your own control. That would be great.
Going by that article it seems cheap enough and they get a lot of upside from it too. I can see this happening for 2014.

[greatwhitenorf]

woops.

[greatwhitenorf]

They can data mine til the cows come home. Until they put a winning team on the pitch, I buy nothing from MLSE except my season tickets, now down to a pair of cheapies from the dozen I participated in years ago. We picnic/tailgate outside ground, go in to our seats, stay there for the entire two hours(we can survive that long without junk food), then leave and enjoy the waterfront area some more. Not getting nickel one from me until we win.

Can't buy any merch from a club I'm frankly ashamed of. I continue to buy season's seats out of support for the game and a love of watching football. Since the end of year one, there really hasn't been anything to build pride on when it comes to the actual team. Chance to make the playoffs in final game? Piss it away in a shambles in NY. Big win over LA in CCL play? Shit for brains football the rest of the season.

Couldn't care less about a roof. Actually enjoy sitting in the sun during our all too short Canadian summers. When we win, there'll be plenty of noise.

But winning? An alien concept to MLSE. Is there any sports entity on this earth that has left more money on the table than this outfit, with all the missed playoff dates their sports teams have missed out on?

Leiweke's shooting sunshine out his arse with all this babble about improved stadium experience. When we win, it'll be a great experience. Carry On Losing, and it wouldn't matter if we were in the lap of luxury - it'll still suck.

There was one good suggestion on an earlier page - move the east-side vendors outside the fence line to easily and cheaply add space to that congested concourse. That would work. That would let me whizz right past the food and merch vendors I have no intention of patronizing.

[Super]

Couldn't care less about a roof. Actually enjoy sitting in the sun during our all too short Canadian summers. When we win, there'll be plenty of noise.

You say that you're embarrassed by the team because we're less than every other team in the league. The same goes for the stadium - and yet you don't want to improve that? And also improve the atmosphere at the same time. Teams aren't winning all the time - so the atmosphere will only be KINDA good when we're winning. Quite the winning mentality you put forth there. I guess you're upset about the roof at White Hart Lane, too?

Difference between having a roof and not is: NOT= Atmosphere goes from Shit to Good. HAVE = Good to Incredible.

That's what it's all about. Improvements! Better atmosphere means a better overall experience for everyone. It means a more hostile environment for the opponents. It means better support for our team - especially needed in tough times. Right now they can't hear fuck all - and that won't change even when we're winning. You think ANY player in the history of this club could sing ANY of our songs? Nope - because it's impossible to make out. Even when winning sec 111 is singing different songs than 113 because they can't hear each other. Just disappears into thin air.

But by all means, enjoy sitting in the sun on your day off. I just wish we'd set higher standards across the board. We should want to have the best team, best stadium, best atmosphere.

[Detroit_TFC]

I often wonder how many holders of multiple season seats in the past have reverted to holding just one as a sort of placeholder so that they can say "I have been here since the beginning". As so they can look to add extra seats once if/when the franchise turns around and becomes an "in demand" ticket once again.

A roof might be nice. It might be necessary to amplify the noise coming out of a dwindling supporters section. But a competing and hopefully winning team should come first.

I'll cop to that. I kept my seat almost solely for that reason this year.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

I've just been in the Seattle area for the past week and checked out the Sounders vs Chivas game on Sunday night. I've never been that eager to have a roof at BMO before that game - now I think it would be awesome. The noise was amazing for the game, and yeah I understand that there are sometimes twice as many people there, but it wasn't just quantity of the support, but the clarity too.

[cmonyoureds]

I've just been in the Seattle area for the past week and checked out the Sounders vs Chivas game on Sunday night. I've never been that eager to have a roof at BMO before that game - now I think it would be awesome. The noise was amazing for the game, and yeah I understand that there are sometimes twice as many people there, but it wasn't just quantity of the support, but the clarity too.

Welcome back.
Garber hopes it's not the a**hole part of YSA that's being heard clearly. g:D

[OgtheDim]

As against douche bag which is so much more genteel.



:hide:

[Pint]

@JohnMolinaro: Payne: "I believe long-term we have to put a (partial) roof on BMO Field. Not entire field. There has to be some roof cover." #TFC

[TFC07]

@JohnMolinaro: Payne: "I believe long-term we have to put a (partial) roof on BMO Field. Not entire field. There has to be some roof cover." #TFC

We all know that, but question is when? I believe they will expanding the seating capacity and other small things before they put a roof unless it's for one stand (South End or North End where it will be hard to build more seats?)

[billyfly]

A big thanks goes out to all the people that have screamed on every poll and fan experience feedback form that BMO needs upgrading.


(yes that includes me)

[Marc"2L"]

They said some money has been committed about a study, if the city owns the stadium, it's public domain no?

edit:
Quick search on the public works Toronto site doesn't show any contracts put out about exhibition that didn't involve the direct energy centre. So, probably MLSE in house on behalf of the city, but the city just gives the ok.


Ever since the rollerblade incident, I've felt compelled to go that extra bit. Imagine if he would of gotten a blurry pic of a man with flowing hair!

[boban]

Beware of the talk coming from MLSE corners about improvements to the soccer stadium.
There's a catch in there somewhere.

[jimiv]

Let's hope it doesn't take letting the Argos in.

As per Rob Ford regarding a home for the Argonauts late last month in the National Post -

"I think we can find a home for them. You look what they did at BMO, for the soccer team. I believe football's more popular than soccer is in Toronto"

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/06/20/toronto-mayor-rob-ford-optimistic-about-argos-future-despite-uncertainty-over-home/


:drinking:

[leafsman]

maybe NFL football but doubt CFL is more popular than soccer

[Huyton]

I would hope that Ford would vote the same way for the Argos Bisto Park as he did for the National Soccer Stadium.

[habstfc]

I think soccer overall may be more popular in Toronto than football but not mls.

[Gilberto9]

We have about the same attendance figures as the Argos, but I think we have more dedicated, hardcore fans than the Argos. TFC > CFL in Toronto.

[DOMIN8R]

There have been many games where my friends and family have taken a pass on going to games because of exposure to the elements (either direct sun or rain/snow/wind). Say nothing of the change to acoustics. I would be interested in the design and how they would get construction done. Would the team need to play elsewhere while construction took place? Or would they be able to get most of it done off season?

More questions than answers for the time being.

[Ultra & Proud]

There have been many games where my friends and family have taken a pass on going to games because of exposure to the elements (either direct sun or rain/snow/wind). Say nothing of the change to acoustics. I would be interested in the design and how they would get construction done. Would the team need to play elsewhere while construction took place? Or would they be able to get most of it done off season?

More questions than answers for the time being.

I think the type of roof we'd get could be all made pre-fab and then assembled at BMO. Probably be like the one from those pics of the small English stadium on these threads. If weather was alright in the spring they could probably toss it up in a few weeks.

[PAOK17]

I call bullshit on that. Whoever first said that is blowing wind out their arse. You should see the architecture we have here in Japan built in tighter spaces and made to withstand earthquakes and typhoons. In the world of structural engineering anything is possible...if you are willing to pay the right price. Putting a roof over that existing structure that could withstand the "high winds" that come off the lake in the small footprint that the stadium has would be a lot easier than many are led to believe.
I totally agree here. You can always build a roof for the right price. I'm assuming the engineers probably meant you can't build a roof directly on the current structure as it can't support the loads in combination with wind, etc. I think the current stands can't support a roof period. But there is always a way around it. You can always in theory build a roof that isn't actually attached to the stands- in theory. Though I'm not sure if anyone has ever attempted such a thing since it might just be cheaper demolishing and rebuilding something better.

[TFC07]

We have about the same attendance figures as the Argos, but I think we have more dedicated, hardcore fans than the Argos. TFC > CFL in Toronto.

Not true about Argos fans are not hardcore like us (they have their crazy fanbase even though their presence isn't large online). Difference is that soccer in general is more popular than football in GTA. Ford and CFL fans are crazy to think football is more popular than soccer in this city and how they can invade BMO field for free (BMO field needs to be rebuild since it's currently too small for CFL football which means Argos or City is going to have to pay millions of dollars so they can host 8 football games which isn't worth it if you're sane person). Not only that, but city will ruin their relationship with MLSE and maybe CSA (people forget that BMO field is home stadium for Canadian soccer as well) which in long term could be costly for city.

MLSE just needs to stop being so cheap and build a real proper soccer stadium. But city wouldn't allow that since they need TFC and Canadian soccer to make money off BMO field.

[BuSaPuNk]

^ there's no way it's going to happen. The price tag is too big and there will be a big backlash from MLSE to do anything that will affect there cash cow.

There best bet is to refurbish Varsity stadium to fit them in just as the ALs play at McGill.

[Richard]

I think it says a lot about the state of the CFL in Toronto when the Argo's with over 140 years of history and tradition cant find a home. The CFL is a black hole here, in the rest of Canada though its 1 or 2 depending if there is a hockey team.

[habstfc]

I agree to a point but I think CFL football is more popular than mls, but not football as a whole. Argos draw a little better and have a higher average ticket price. The tv numbers also confirm this.

[TFC07]

I think it says a lot about the state of the CFL in Toronto when the Argo's with over 140 years of history and tradition cant find a home. The CFL is a black hole here, in the rest of Canada though its 1 or 2 depending if there is a hockey team.

That is just sad. Argos need to be more respected in the city, but I blame Argos for lack of interest in Toronto market than anyone else. They have been doing a poor job marketing their team in this city for a long time now. BMO field incident is going to make it worse if they try to invade again even though their season ticket holders don't support going to BMO field at all (I believe Argos did a survey on this with their season ticket holders in the past).

[TFC07]

I agree to a point but I think CFL football is more popular than mls, but not football as a whole. Argos draw a little better and have a higher average ticket price. The tv numbers also confirm this.
But that's outside of Toronto. Who knows how many people IN TORONTO support CFL compare to MLS. I would say soccer in this city is more supported locally than football. I see more people in Toronto wearing TFC gear than Argo gear or any other CFL gear in general. If we sign bunch of big name or well known players, than support for TFC in this city will grow dramatically. Upside for TFC is a lot larger than Argos in this city.

[CFL]

But that's outside of Toronto. Who knows how many people IN TORONTO support CFL compare to MLS. I would say soccer in this city is more supported locally than football. I see more people in Toronto wearing TFC gear than Argo gear or any other CFL gear in general. If we sign bunch of big name or well known players, than support for TFC in this city will grow dramatically. Upside for TFC is a lot larger than Argos in this city.


You are right. Football fans in Canada are hardcore. And unlike the parents and kids who play soccer, they go out and attend games, may it be local or professional. The Argos are suffering through what TFC will, if they don't start winning. Losing in any sport kills.

I am always amazed when soccer people underestimate Canadian Football. There are two CFL teams in the region that have a long tradition say about 90 years longer than TFC. TV ratings for CFL is way way way way way above MLS games. There are about 10 university football programs that hands down outdraw their university's soccer programs by about 500 to 1 Go to an OVFL youth football game and you'll find about on average about 400 people per game. That's a U-15 game. Now what does the CSL draw? I won't even make fun of OYSL league crowds of 15- 21 people. Just because because a 11 year plays soccer at the request of mum or dad, does not make them a fan of the game. Nor does it make mum and dad ticket holders. Going to football game is a Canadian experience for families. TFC pissed away that chance and it's gone. It made BMO unwelcoming to families and so have a few "hardcore" supporters who felt entitled because they wore scarves to games.

If there is going to be a roof MLSE will have to pony up for it.

And If I was a soccer guy, that is who I would be upset with- MLSE. Not the players or the supporter groups, but that MLSE blew it massively. That buzz that was there after Danny scored.... It's dead. And MLSE by aiming everything at the hip trendy 20 crowd-- only works if going to the game is hip and trendy- which requires winning. Losing is never trendy. If there more and more empty seats, those seats are being abandoned by those 20ish pasbt blue drinking puffs. And until you see 1000 people at a Ontario Cup U-17 game between Oakville and Pickering- soccer is losing- thanks to MLSE and it's BS marketing of the team. They left the grassroots game to it's own devices. And let's face it. The OSA is a joke. They tried to create a BRAND and not a club. They have created ZERO connection to the soccer community in the GTA.

And that's why the next stadium built in this city will be for the Argos. And it will be packed with families. Dads, Granddads and moms with kids in tow. Why? they always pay the bills.


BTW-- take a look at this. Jr Argos fan club. https://www.facebook.com/ArgosAdmirals
BTW2- aint this just fun? http://argonauts.ca/video/index/id/87145

[Marc"2L"]

I'm not going to quote your whole post, but my rebuttal is simple.

DEMOGRAPHICS.
Being part of that "hip crowd" I know one thing that hasn't ever really clicked, and that's the CFL.
every CFL fan I know is older then me, much older.

[TFC07]

I am always amazed when soccer people underestimate Canadian Football. There are two CFL teams in the region that have a long tradition say about 90 years longer than TFC. TV ratings for CFL is way way way way way above MLS games. There are about 10 university football programs that hands down outdraw their university's soccer programs by about 500 to 1 Go to an OVFL youth football game and you'll find about on average about 400 people per game. That's a U-15 game. Now what does the CSL draw? I won't even make fun of OYSL league crowds of 15- 21 people. Just because because a 11 year plays soccer at the request of mum or dad, does not make them a fan of the game. Nor does it make mum and dad ticket holders. Going to football game is a Canadian experience for families. TFC pissed away that chance and it's gone. It made BMO unwelcoming to families and so have a few "hardcore" supporters who felt entitled because they wore scarves to games.

And If I was a soccer guy, that is who I would be upset with- MLSE. Not the players or the supporter groups, but that MLSE blew it massively. That buzz that was there after Danny scored.... It's dead. And MLSE by aiming everything at the hip trendy 20 crowd-- only works if going to the game is hip and trendy- which requires winning. Losing is never trendy. If there more and more empty seats, those seats are being abandoned by those 20ish pasbt blue drinking puffs. And until you see 1000 people at a Ontario Cup U-17 game between Oakville and Pickering- soccer is losing- thanks to MLSE and it's BS marketing of the team. They left the grassroots game to it's own devices. And let's face it. The OSA is a joke. They tried to create a BRAND and not a club. They have created ZERO connection to the soccer community in the GTA.

And that's why the next stadium built in this city will be for the Argos. And it will be packed with families. Dads, Granddads and moms with kids in tow. Why? they always pay the bills.


BTW-- take a look at this. Jr Argos fan club. https://www.facebook.com/ArgosAdmirals
BTW2- aint this just fun? http://argonauts.ca/video/index/id/87145

I agree with your comment about TFC not doing much in grassroot level. They need to be more involved and be leaders in Ontario soccer community.

As for MLSE: another mistake besides on-field product is not attracting immigrant/multicultural communities in GTA. There's a huge immigrant population in Toronto who would go to soccer games if MLSE made an effort to promote TFC to them (this also same problem Argos and CFL have in this market). "Canadian experience" you're referring to doesn't exist in Toronto due to our growing multi cultural population. This is a big reason why Argos upside is limited in Toronto. They don't have that crowd that typically goes to CFL games in Toronto. Toronto isn't Hamilton or any other Canadian city! This is one thing that CFL fans don't understand and need to stop comparing. City makeup and culture isn't same like rest of Canada. It's different beast out here! CFL needs to adapt to Toronto market if it wants to be successful here not other way around.

How many football teams and leagues do we have in GTA compare to soccer? Not many! This is why their attendance is higher than soccer. Also, university soccer is looked down by a lot of soccer fans. In soccer, it's pro teams that develop players not universities. Only Americans believe in college system.

Argos and city of Toronto needs money to build their stadium which isn't going to happen since they don't have much money to build one in Toronto. Most likely, they have to build a stadium in 905 region unless one of universities in Toronto (York University?) steps up to plate.

[TFC07]

I'm not going to quote your whole post, but my rebuttal is simple.

DEMOGRAPHICS.
Being part of that "hip crowd" I know one thing that hasn't ever really clicked, and that's the CFL.
every CFL fan I know is older then me, much older.

It's not just age. Toronto is a multicultural city with a huge minority population (close to half city population). CFL has no appeal to this group at all! They have failed to promote their product to Toronto.

[habstfc]

But that's outside of Toronto. Who knows how many people IN TORONTO support CFL compare to MLS. I would say soccer in this city is more supported locally than football. I see more people in Toronto wearing TFC gear than Argo gear or any other CFL gear in general. If we sign bunch of big name or well known players, than support for TFC in this city will grow dramatically. Upside for TFC is a lot larger than Argos in this city.
TV numbers are higher in Toronto for argos than tfc.

[habstfc]

But that's outside of Toronto. Who knows how many people IN TORONTO support CFL compare to MLS. I would say soccer in this city is more supported locally than football. I see more people in Toronto wearing TFC gear than Argo gear or any other CFL gear in general. If we sign bunch of big name or well known players, than support for TFC in this city will grow dramatically. Upside for TFC is a lot larger than Argos in this city.
You'd probably see more people in seattle with sounders jerseys on as well but its no where near as popular as seahawks.

[TFC07]

TV numbers are higher in Toronto for argos than tfc.

I don't know there's numbers out there to be support this, but general public interest in Argos isn't there. I think we can all agree to that. There's a reason why Argos aren't owned by MLSE unlike other pro teams in this city.

Let's say what you said is true, then how come Argos are having hard time selling out games and gain media attention like other teams do in this market if TV ratings are there? Something doesn't add up here.

[CFL]

I don't know there's numbers out there to be support this, but general public interest in Argos isn't there. I think we can all agree to that. There's a reason why Argos aren't owned by MLSE unlike other pro teams in this city.

Let's say what you said is true, then how come Argos are having hard time selling out games and gain media attention like other teams do in this market if TV ratings are there? Something doesn't add up here.


If the Argos played in a 21,000 seat Stadium, they'd sell out. As for media attention, do you not read the papers? When has the MLS ever started a TSN news broadcast. I like both teams. I like both sports. But to say that the Argos don't get media attention is not right. We all know the Leafs will always get the most. Period. They own the city and always will. The Argos after the Jays are 3rd in terms of coverage. And deservingly so. TFC needs to make the play-offs. TFC has never had any kind of on-field success. Can anyone outside this board name 4 of this year starting players? Could the average sport fan in this city, name 1?

I quote Jack Cooke who brought the Kings to LA. When asked why the Kings weren't doing so well at the gate, considering there were 800,000 Canadians living within a hour's drive of the rink, he said " Well they probably moved because they hated hockey" SO-- All these minorities, people in soccer keep talking about , may just not be soccer fans. I've met tons of Spanish people who hate the game. Rather watch anything else. BTW- How is Chivas doing at the gate? Maybe those mexicans would rather got to UCLA football games. If you want to survive in North America, you need to get families out. PERIOD. And if you don't, the tax payer won't build your roof for you. I stick to my original point, TFC marketing to the 20ish crowd is going to kill the team. Crowds are slowly shrinking away. It needs a reboot.

AND I am LOLing at the idea that the Argos don't matter that they are not owned by MLSE. Man. I bet 99% of this board would have parade the day MLSE sells the team. It's the kiss of death. I for one would embrace David Bradley as the TFC owner. He may not know soccer, but at least he knows sports. And gives a shit whether the team wins or not and lets the people he's hired, manage.

TFC and the Argos are not enemies. Both teams have a common one. The Leafs. It will be interesting to see how Ottawa manages it's CFL and NASL teams. I bet the common ownership helps both teams.

[CFL]

It's not just age. Toronto is a multicultural city with a huge minority population (close to half city population). CFL has no appeal to this group at all! They have failed to promote their product to Toronto.

You should try and catch a youth football game in Toronto. The players come from a vary wide ethnic base. Football is a world sport.

[TFC07]

If the Argos played in a 21,000 seat Stadium, they'd sell out. As for media attention, do you not read the papers? When has the MLS ever started a TSN news broadcast. I like both teams. I like both sports. But to say that the Argos don't get media attention is not right. We all know the Leafs will always get the most. Period. They own the city and always will. The Argos after the Jays are 3rd in terms of coverage. And deservingly so. TFC needs to make the play-offs. TFC has never had any kind of on-field success. Can anyone outside this board name 4 of this year starting players? Could the average sport fan in this city, name 1?

I quote Jack Cooke who brought the Kings to LA. When asked why the Kings weren't doing so well at the gate, considering there were 800,000 Canadians living within a hour's drive of the rink, he said " Well they probably moved because they hated hockey" SO-- All these minorities, people in soccer keep talking about , may just not be soccer fans. I've met tons of Spanish people who hate the game. Rather watch anything else. BTW- How is Chivas doing at the gate? Maybe those mexicans would rather got to UCLA football games. If you want to survive in North America, you need to get families out. PERIOD. And if you don't, the tax payer won't build your roof for you. I stick to my original point, TFC marketing to the 20ish crowd is going to kill the team. Crowds are slowly shrinking away. It needs a reboot.

AND I am LOLing at the idea that the Argos don't matter that they are not owned by MLSE. Man. I bet 99% of this board would have parade the day MLSE sells the team. It's the kiss of death. I for one would embrace David Bradley as the TFC owner. He may not know soccer, but at least he knows sports. And gives a shit whether the team wins or not and lets the people he's hired, manage.

TFC and the Argos are not enemies. Both teams have a common one. The Leafs. It will be interesting to see how Ottawa manages it's CFL and NASL teams. I bet the common ownership helps both teams.

Well TSN is national sports broadcast company that own CFL rights. So of course they will give CFL coverage. What about Sportsnet or local Toronto media? You rarely hear them covering CFL. You're crazy to think Argos get more coverage than Raptors and TFC (they still get media coverage and get talked about in local radio station). Argos are bottom in interest IN TORONTO.

Chivas? Doesn't L.A. have two teams in their market? What about L.A. galaxy? Besides, you can't compare USA to Canada when comes to immigrants. Canada policy encourage people to keep their native culture unlike USA where it discourage newcomers to keep their culture. So in this case, sports like soccer will be more popular than football with immigrants (on a paper at least) in this country.

Your family crowd should be part of fanbase, but it shouldn't be only crowd to attract to games. You still need younger crowd who have cash and more time to invest in your club as well. But, soccer and football are two completely sports with two completely fanbase. So comparing each other isn't the best example, but I do believe CFL needs to adapt to Toronto market if they want to be successful here.

MLSE aren't as hated as they were in the past here since they have done a good job hiring Kevin Payne and Tim Leiweke who have big plans for TFC. I highly doubt Bradley would be capable and have resources to hire those two men. Not only that, but I highly doubt Bradly would have gotten grass turf and build world class training facility. So they have done some good especially since when they got rid of Anselmi.

Yes, I agree that TFC and Argos (MLS and CFL) shouldn't hate each other, but the whole BMO incident has left a sour taste in our fanbase for Argos and CFL.

[habstfc]

Well TSN is national sports broadcast company that own CFL rights. So of course they will give CFL coverage. What about Sportsnet or local Toronto media? You rarely hear them covering CFL. You're crazy to think Argos get more coverage than Raptors and TFC (they still get media coverage and get talked about in local radio station). Argos are bottom in interest IN TORONTO.

I disagree. I watch the local ctv news every night in Toronto and argos get way more coverage. They will have a story from the argos practices at least once a week about an upcoming game or injury, player interviews etc. I don't think I've ever seen that with tfc. I am sure they will have a story if urutti signs but in general they only show a highlights from tfc games usually near the end of the sports broadcast.

[TFC07]

I disagree. I watch the local ctv news every night in Toronto and argos get way more coverage. They will have a story from the argos practices at least once a week about an upcoming game or injury, player interviews etc. I don't think I've ever seen that with tfc. I am sure they will have a story if urutti signs but in general they only show a highlights from tfc games usually near the end of the sports broadcast.

Point proven. CTV and TSN are both own by Bell. lol Notice how non-Bell sports channel (Sportsnet) don't give much coverage to Argos? Even local sports media(FAN 590) don't talk about them (we don't even have a CFL show in Toronto sports radio like we do with soccer?).

[Marc"2L"]

TV numbers are higher in Toronto for argos than tfc.


Again, DEMOGRAPHICS.
How many of my friends have cable...?
Not many.

edit: not claiming I represent the majority, but I know a lot of people my age that will forgo cable and just require an Internet connection. If you're under 30, you probably do as well.

[Marc"2L"]

You should try and catch a youth football game in Toronto. The players come from a vary wide ethnic base. Football is a world sport.

Absolutely.
Gridiron? Not so much.

[ag futbol]

Again, DEMOGRAPHICS.
How many of my friends have cable...?
Not many.

edit: not claiming I represent the majority, but I know a lot of people my age that will forgo cable and just require an Internet connection. If you're under 30, you probably do as well.
Meh. I'd fully concede that the Argos are pulling in more currently than TFC is. Now that being said, business isn't necessary where you are but where you're going / what your potential is. I'd have a hard time reasoning the potential of a Toronto CFL team is above that of a well run MLS squad.

But they can feel free to do as they like. They can just do it outside of the confines of one of the only professional soccer stadium in the city, that plays host to numerous events outside of just TFC. Let them go to the city and try to strike a deal for their own stadium outside of BMO.

[habstfc]

Point proven. CTV and TSN are both own by Bell. lol Notice how non-Bell sports channel (Sportsnet) don't give much coverage to Argos? Even local sports media(FAN 590) don't talk about them (we don't even have a CFL show in Toronto sports radio like we do with soccer?). I don't believe there is a conspiracy to not have tfc stories on the news because of ownership. TSN have an interest in tfc as well, they show games on tsn don't they? Watch the news tonight tfc will barely be mentioned even on sportsnet who showed the game no less. I listen to the fan 590 throughout the day the argos are talked about all the time especially the day before or on gameday.

[Marc"2L"]

What ag said, it's really about potential and where things are going.

[SoccMan2]

Where do I start "CFL" I just want to say in terms of youth football compared to youth soccer in terms of numbers not even close. The number of kids that play youth soccer compared to youth football is so so much greater it's not even a contest are you kidding me. Your argument that the only reason so many kids play soccer is because it's the parents that decide what their kids play, wow what a revelation. The majority of time no matter what the sport it is the parent that decides what sport to put their kid into not just soccer but any sport. Youth football is not a sport that many parents put their kids into here in the GTA and in many parts of Canada. When it comes to youth sports soccer, hockey and basketball are king with baseball a distant 4th, youth football even further further back in terms of registration numbers, go look up the numbers "CFL" it's easy to find. I will grant you that the Argos do much better TV numbers in terms of ratings than TFC, however, for a team that get's so much more coverage in the newspapers on TV and on the radio they should be getting at least 35,000 a game to the Rogers center, however, they have a hard time getting 20,000. Moreover, remember the Argos only play like what 9 home games and they can't get at least 30,000 to only 9 home games. TFC play something like 16 home games and even without the media coverage the Argos get are still getting close to 18000 a game and that's after being complete crap since 2007!

[tfcmanu]

Where do I start "CFL" I just want to say in terms of youth football compared to youth soccer in terms of numbers not even close. The number of kids that play youth soccer compared to youth football is so so much greater it's not even a contest are you kidding me. Your argument that the only reason so many kids play soccer is because it's the parents that decide what their kids play, wow what a revelation. The majority of time no matter what the sport it is the parent that decides what sport to put their kid into not just soccer but any sport. Youth football is not a sport that many parents put their kids into here in the GTA and in many parts of Canada. When it comes to youth sports soccer, hockey and basketball are king with baseball a distant 4th, youth football even further further back in terms of registration numbers, go look up the numbers "CFL" it's easy to find. I will grant you that the Argos do much better TV numbers in terms of ratings than TFC, however, for a team that get's so much more coverage in the newspapers on TV and on the radio they should be getting at least 35,000 a game to the Rogers center, however, they have a hard time getting 20,000. Moreover, remember the Argos only play like what 9 home games and they can't get at least 30,000 to only 9 home games. TFC play something like 16 home games and even without the media coverage the Argos get are still getting close to 18000 a game and that's after being complete crap since 2007!

That's all folks, Well said!

[habstfc]

Where do I start "CFL" I just want to say in terms of youth football compared to youth soccer in terms of numbers not even close. The number of kids that play youth soccer compared to youth football is so so much greater it's not even a contest are you kidding me. Your argument that the only reason so many kids play soccer is because it's the parents that decide what their kids play, wow what a revelation. The majority of time no matter what the sport it is the parent that decides what sport to put their kid into not just soccer but any sport. Youth football is not a sport that many parents put their kids into here in the GTA and in many parts of Canada. When it comes to youth sports soccer, hockey and basketball are king with baseball a distant 4th, youth football even further further back in terms of registration numbers, go look up the numbers "CFL" it's easy to find. I will grant you that the Argos do much better TV numbers in terms of ratings than TFC, however, for a team that get's so much more coverage in the newspapers on TV and on the radio they should be getting at least 35,000 a game to the Rogers center, however, they have a hard time getting 20,000. Moreover, remember the Argos only play like what 9 home games and they can't get at least 30,000 to only 9 home games. TFC play something like 16 home games and even without the media coverage the Argos get are still getting close to 18000 a game and that's after being complete crap since 2007! Yes but to be fair to the Argos they play a very eratic schedule. They played on a Tuesday night last week. TFC mainly play Saturdays and the very odd Wednesday.

[OgtheDim]

Dear CFL,

I am a long time CFL fan. TiCat from before the 72 Grey cup. Had Argo season tickets when we moved here just to see games. So, I know CFL.

And I think you are wrong. Others have looked at it generally. Let me look at what you said point by point.


You are right. Football fans in Canada are hardcore. And unlike the parents and kids who play soccer, they go out and attend games, may it be local or professional.


The issue here is for potential in Ontario. CFL fans are NOT local football fans. You don't see people show up in their hundreds to see either soccer or football at the non top league level. (I don't count CIS ball, and I'll explain later)


..The Argos are suffering through what TFC will, if they don't start winning. Losing in any sport kills.


Oh please. The Argos have been a bad draw ever since they moved into Skydome, with the exception of the John Candy years, and those were wildly papered. Win or lose, 14-28K show up, much of them papered. Losing is not the issue.


I am always amazed when soccer people underestimate Canadian Football. There are two CFL teams in the region that have a long tradition say about 90 years longer than TFC. TV ratings for CFL is way way way way way above MLS games.

Yup, and will for a long time. TV ratings for soccer for anything other then the WC are bad. EPL, MLS, Seria A, La Liga....all crud. TSN does a really good job at selling CFL on TV. To the point where people prefer to stay home rather then go to a game in Toronto.



There are about 10 university football programs that hands down outdraw their university's soccer programs by about 500 to 1 Go to an OVFL youth football game and you'll find about on average about 400 people per game.

Well we are talking support at the CFL vs MLS level, but I suppose there is potential.

About the university football. That is ALL school spirit. All of it. Its fall, its tradition, and all that support is not translated to CFL. When people leave school, probably 97% of them never see a university game again.

As for OVFL, where are you getting those figures from? I've never seen that. Proof please.


Just because because a 11 year plays soccer at the request of mum or dad, does not make them a fan of the game. Nor does it make mum and dad ticket holders.

Excuse me!

Are you seriously suggesting kids only play soccer because there parents want them too!?! :out:

Buddy, kids play games for many reasons...family, friends, they just like it, school spirit. If you think kids play football because of reasons other then family well.....


Going to football game is a Canadian experience for families.

Uh, no. CFL tickets are DARNED expensive for a family of 4. As is TFC. And in Toronto, the CFL was and remains not a family oriented game. And, ultimately, we are still talking about the Toronto market here.


TFC pissed away that chance and it's gone. It made BMO unwelcoming to families and so have a few "hardcore" supporters who felt entitled because they wore scarves to games.

:troll:

But lets indulge you on this bit of trolling for a moment.

You see who comes out to MLS games across North America?

It ain't families.

It ain't soccer moms.

MLS tried Soccer Moms and families.

DID

NOT

WORK

So, what you are suggesting is MLS should give up on supporter culture, which actually brings in people who spend money in order to chase families....who don't show up anyways.


If there is going to be a roof MLSE will have to pony up for it.

Well duh......and if there is going to be a football stadium, the Argos should pay for it.


And If I was a soccer guy, that is who I would be upset with- MLSE. Not the players or the supporter groups, but that MLSE blew it massively. That buzz that was there after Danny scored.... It's dead.

Um, you think people on here like what MLSE did with Mo and Mariner?

As for the buzz...dead? No. The potential is still there. As for the CFL....no buzz either, last heard during the Rocket Ishmael days is long gone. I was around for Damon Allen. No Buzz. This year, right after a Grey Cup...no CFL buzz. The potential for CFL is even worse then MLS.


And MLSE by aiming everything at the hip trendy 20 crowd-- only works if going to the game is hip and trendy- which requires winning. Losing is never trendy.

20? Supporter culture is 28+ around North America. And the marketing, if you bothered to look, is at people with money who support the game.


If there more and more empty seats, those seats are being abandoned by those 20ish pasbt blue drinking puffs.

Who the heck drinks pabst blue ribbon? I'm pushing 50 and even I know hipsters don't drink that stuff this year.

If you are going to attempt to troll about hipsters, at least get current.

Its all about local craft beers now. (Although a lot of people on here seem to like Bud, so ur whole attempt at a stereotype is kinda out to lunch)


And until you see 1000 people at a Ontario Cup U-17 game between Oakville and Pickering- soccer is losing-

So what you are saying is 1000 people at a youth game (and I've never heard of that in football) translates into CFL support?

Uh..no.


thanks to MLSE and it's BS marketing of the team. They left the grassroots game to it's own devices. And let's face it. The OSA is a joke.

So what you are saying is soccer mom marketing = grass roots support? Uh, no.

And the CFL in Ontario has been sooooooooooo caring about local football?!?!



They tried to create a BRAND and not a club. They have created ZERO connection to the soccer community in the GTA.

Umm.......do you even know what a soccer club is these days? Club is brand.

Others on here who are connected to local soccer would be able to better critique your point about zero connection but when, if ever, did Don Matthews do a coaches clinic?


And that's why the next stadium built in this city will be for the Argos. And it will be packed with families. Dads, Granddads and moms with kids in tow. Why? they always pay the bills.

:troll: again about the paying the bills thing. Buddy, are you like 50 or something? Do you have any clue how much money people in their 20's and 30's have?

Oh, and BTW, I was in section 111 last home game.

Dads, Grandmas, kids in tow sprinkled among the 20-60 year old men and women.

As for the stadium, I really hope you are not suggesting that the city pay for it? Cause that would be the opposite of those who "always pay the bills".


On another point, I see kids all over BMO. About the same % as at Argo games.



I like the CFL.

I like MLS.

But to say that the Argos have more potential because MLSE didn't market to soccer moms and because people show up to watch Western vs. Laurier.............that's just ludicrous.

[Parkdale]

am I the only one who likes being outside? As someone who used to site on the west side in the shade, let me tell you that without sun, those shoulder season games are brutal.


I'd rather keep BMO as it is, warts and all, instead of making it more appealing to the throw-ball crowd.

[habstfc]

I think it's irrelevant how many kids play soccer vs football or the reasons why. The only thing that matters is how many people either show up to games or how many people watch on tv. The cfl is way ahead in tv numbers both locally and nationally. I like mls and cfl as well but mls has a long way to go to match interest the cfl has tv wise. There is still a menatality amongst soccer fans when it comes to mls vs euro leagues, we all know eurosnobs who care less about tfc and mls. Last year I gave a pair of tfc tickets to my sons school as a fundraiser and they got ZERO bids just to put things in perspective as to the general interest, the ti cats tickets and leafs raptors tickets all got respectable bids.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If the Argos played in a 21,000 seat Stadium, they'd sell out. As for media attention, do you not read the papers? When has the MLS ever started a TSN news broadcast. I like both teams. I like both sports. But to say that the Argos don't get media attention is not right. We all know the Leafs will always get the most. Period. They own the city and always will. The Argos after the Jays are 3rd in terms of coverage. And deservingly so. TFC needs to make the play-offs. TFC has never had any kind of on-field success. Can anyone outside this board name 4 of this year starting players? Could the average sport fan in this city, name 1?

I quote Jack Cooke who brought the Kings to LA. When asked why the Kings weren't doing so well at the gate, considering there were 800,000 Canadians living within a hour's drive of the rink, he said " Well they probably moved because they hated hockey" SO-- All these minorities, people in soccer keep talking about , may just not be soccer fans. I've met tons of Spanish people who hate the game. Rather watch anything else. BTW- How is Chivas doing at the gate? Maybe those mexicans would rather got to UCLA football games. If you want to survive in North America, you need to get families out. PERIOD. And if you don't, the tax payer won't build your roof for you. I stick to my original point, TFC marketing to the 20ish crowd is going to kill the team. Crowds are slowly shrinking away. It needs a reboot.

AND I am LOLing at the idea that the Argos don't matter that they are not owned by MLSE. Man. I bet 99% of this board would have parade the day MLSE sells the team. It's the kiss of death. I for one would embrace David Bradley as the TFC owner. He may not know soccer, but at least he knows sports. And gives a shit whether the team wins or not and lets the people he's hired, manage.

TFC and the Argos are not enemies. Both teams have a common one. The Leafs. It will be interesting to see how Ottawa manages it's CFL and NASL teams. I bet the common ownership helps both teams.


Then I'd be more careful framing your posts "CFL". This thread is about a new roof at BMO.


You should try and catch a youth football game in Toronto. The players come from a vary wide ethnic base. Football is a world sport.

Gridiron is as Worldly as MLS is popular on Canadian tv. The difference being the last 100 plus years one sport grew on the pitch while one grew on television. Go London Monarchs?


I think it's irrelevant how many kids play soccer vs football or the reasons why. The only thing that matters is how many people either show up to games or how many people watch on tv. The cfl is way ahead in tv numbers both locally and nationally. I like mls and cfl as well but mls has a long way to go to match interest the cfl has tv wise. There is still a menatality amongst soccer fans when it comes to mls vs euro leagues, we all know eurosnobs who care less about tfc and mls. Last year I gave a pair of tfc tickets to my sons school as a fundraiser and they got ZERO bids just to put things in perspective as to the general interest, the ti cats tickets and leafs raptors tickets all got respectable bids.

Irrelevant? It's irrelevant how many kids play the game? Who will play the game next if not our own kids?

The CFL knows the answer. And let me know the next starting Canadian Quarterback...

[Fort York Redcoat]

Yes but to be fair to the Argos they play a very eratic schedule. They played on a Tuesday night last week. TFC mainly play Saturdays and the very odd Wednesday.

That's not a reason but an excuse. The reason they play that unfair schedule is because the league isn't popular enough to mimic the NFL NCAA model and have the majority of games on the same day.

That regularity breeds tradition. Like mid-Sat games. Where it's just as loud as a night game but for Champions League nights.

[TFC07]

One thing I need to point out here: I am no way anti-CFL (I prefer CFL over NFL) and I feel in long term that both CFL and Canada Soccer can co-exist with each other (we need each other to build and utilize our stadiums all over Canada). That being said, BMO field was intended to be mainly used as a soccer stadium. Argos blew their chances and have no one but themselves to blame for being very short-sighted to go back to Rogers Centre when they had the chance to get their own stadium back in 2007. Don't blame soccer fans (remember we're taxpayers too) for Argos failure to get their own stadium.

[Fort York Redcoat]

One thing I need to point out here: I am no way anti-CFL (I prefer CFL over NFL) and I feel in long term that both CFL and Canada Soccer can co-exist with each other (we need each other to build and utilize our stadiums all over Canada). That being said, BMO field was intended to be mainly used as a soccer stadium. Argos blew their chances and have no one but themselves to blame for being very short-sighted to go back to Rogers Centre when they had the chance to get their own stadium back in 2007. Don't blame soccer fans (remember we're taxpayers too) for Argos failure to get their own stadium.


I'd love to know how that preseason game at U of T happened and the feedback. Honestly the biggest tease of "what could have been" ever. There would be no debate if our roles were reversed (Argos/TFC) because we've not been propped up for the better part of a century.

[Mulder]

That's not a reason but an excuse. The reason they play that unfair schedule is because the league isn't popular enough to mimic the NFL NCAA model and have the majority of games on the same day.


Incorrect. Rogers Centre gave the Argos 11 dates to play 9 regular season home games. Last season they gave 10 dates.

[OgtheDim]

As an aside, David Braley is a tight wad but the people who really pooched that decision are no longer around. Rogers gave previous ownership a sweetheart deal that allowed the Argos to not spend a lot of money when they could have got in on a stadium either for the Pan Am or the U21 WC. Now they will be paying for that.

[Mulder]

Where do I start "CFL" I just want to say in terms of youth football compared to youth soccer in terms of numbers not even close. The number of kids that play youth soccer compared to youth football is so so much greater it's not even a contest are you kidding me. Your argument that the only reason so many kids play soccer is because it's the parents that decide what their kids play, wow what a revelation. The majority of time no matter what the sport it is the parent that decides what sport to put their kid into not just soccer but any sport. Youth football is not a sport that many parents put their kids into here in the GTA and in many parts of Canada. When it comes to youth sports soccer, hockey and basketball are king with baseball a distant 4th, youth football even further further back in terms of registration numbers, go look up the numbers "CFL" it's easy to find. I will grant you that the Argos do much better TV numbers in terms of ratings than TFC, however, for a team that get's so much more coverage in the newspapers on TV and on the radio they should be getting at least 35,000 a game to the Rogers center, however, they have a hard time getting 20,000. Moreover, remember the Argos only play like what 9 home games and they can't get at least 30,000 to only 9 home games. TFC play something like 16 home games and even without the media coverage the Argos get are still getting close to 18000 a game and that's after being complete crap since 2007!

Keep up with the Us vs Them thing Soccman,

Toronto seems to be the only city in the world that lacks overall civic pride for their sports teams.

[Huyton]

One thing I need to point out here: I am no way anti-CFL (I prefer CFL over NFL) and I feel in long term that both CFL and Canada Soccer can co-exist with each other (we need each other to build and utilize our stadiums all over Canada). That being said, BMO field was intended to be mainly used as a soccer stadium. Argos blew their chances and have no one but themselves to blame for being very short-sighted to go back to Rogers Centre when they had the chance to get their own stadium back in 2007. Don't blame soccer fans (remember we're taxpayers too) for Argos failure to get their own stadium.
Exactly. The Argos nearly killed soccer in this city when they backed out of the shared stadium at York for the sweetheart deal they got from the Skydome. For them it was very much “Short term gain for long term pain”.

One of the reasons we got a dome in the first place was because the premier at the time, Bill Davis, was at a Grey Cup game in truly foul weather. What the Argos got was a truly groundbreaking design for a stadium that had a considerable number of features to it specifically put in place for CFL teams.

And if I remember correctly, when the National Soccer Stadium at the Exhibition grounds was voted on at Toronto City council, it was a certain councilor Ford who was against it. The City contributed $9.8 million in cash and land worth about $10 million.

TFC’s owners have a stake in their stadium, while the Argos are strictly renting. The Boatmen had their chance in 2005 and decided against it.

They made their bed…they’re going to have to lie in it. file:///C:/Users/hillr/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/02/clip_image001.gif

[Huyton]

Incorrect. Rogers Centre gave the Argos 11 dates to play 9 regular season home games. Last season they gave 10 dates.Also, doesn't the CFL generally want one game per day on the weekend to maximize exposure for the league on TV?

[Carts]

That's not a reason but an excuse. The reason they play that unfair schedule is because the league isn't popular enough to mimic the NFL NCAA model and have the majority of games on the same day.

That regularity breeds tradition. Like mid-Sat games. Where it's just as loud as a night game but for Champions League nights.

That's not true...

The CFL television numbers are consistently EXCELLENT! A bad game, with a bad matchup, on a bad night, will bring in 500,000 min - a decent one 800,000+, playoffs into the millions, Grey Cup reaching 4-5 million...

And of that regular audience, it's proven to be an excellent lead in viewership.. The reason they play '1-game-per-day' type of schedule on Thurs-Fri-Sat is to use that lead in to SportsCentre... If 20% of the audience sticks around, you suddenly have over 100,000 people watching SC (which regularly happens after CFL games)...

CFL numbers are also strong coast-to-coast - and have very little regional spikes during games. Scheduling the games at the same time would only fragment your total audience, and wouldn't be smart scheduling. CFL fans, more than any other sport, watch all games - not just their home team. Obviously, with only 4-games per week, it's doable (a Blue Jay fan simply couldn't watch every MLB game - there just isn't enough hours in the day), but CFL fans are very loyal to the broadcasting rights holder - moreso than any other sport...

The reason for the Argos terrible home schedule is the Blue Jays. Their lease is basically free, and therefore they simply get 'leftover' dates - in fact, concerts/motorcross/kids-midway-week will get higher priority than the Argos at the RC (the Tuesday night being the perfect example)...

I don't want the Argos in BMO Field - but don't for a second think that the CFL isn't a massive TV property in this country... It brings in big numbers, and has loyal viewers (they watch the coverage of the league after the games are over), a perfect pairing when acquiring, scheduling, and broadcasting a sports property...

[Mulder]

Ex What the Argos got was a truly groundbreaking design for a stadium that had a considerable number of features to it specifically put in place for CFL teams.

Slope of the sideline seating is horrible. Wasn't designed for any sort of football. Don't kid yourself by thinking it was designed for CFL. The only thing they designed for CFL wise was to make sure the field fit.

That being said, If they where to renovate Skydome so that the sideline seats your not miles from the field and not shouting in someone else's ear, it would help revitalize the CFL in Toronto. It's like going to the movies before stadium seating. God that was awful.



And if I remember correctly, when the National Soccer Stadium at the Exhibition grounds was voted on at Toronto City council, it was a certain councilor Ford who was against it. The City contributed $9.8 million in cash and land worth about $10 million.

Taxpayers got fleeced, MLSE contributes 18 million. Then sells naming rights for 27 million. Even after putting in grass and stadium upgrades MLSE walks away up millions.

[TFC07]

Taxpayers got fleeced, MLSE contributes 18 million. Then sells naming rights for 27 million. Even after putting in grass and stadium upgrades MLSE walks away up millions.

How so? MLSE bought naming rights from city (for $10 million?) and then sold it BMO. That's just smart business.

Blame the city if anything in this case.

[OgtheDim]

Its a bad baseball yard for all but the seats in the second tier and above behind home plate, worse football one and really bad for soccer. Its only redeeming features ar the retractable roof and the location. The sooner it was torn down the better.

But Rogers has decided to make a go of it, given the investment to build a new stadium would be close to a $1 billion and no government is going to pony up that much for Rogers.

[Red Rat]

We don't need a roof, we need a team!!!

[habstfc]

[/QUOTE]
Irrelevant? It's irrelevant how many kids play the game? Who will play the game next if not our own kids?

[/QUOTE] It's irrelevant because pretty much none of those youth soccer players that play the game in the tens of thousands obviously don't watch tfc or mls on tv.

[PopePouri]

We don't need a roof, we need a team!!!

Why not both?

[Super]

We don't need a roof, we need a team!!!

By your logic you could say we don't even need a stadium. All we need is a team. Might as well play the games on the beach.

Personally I'd like to have a nice stadium. And I'm sure our management is able to handle more than one issue at a time. Otherwise it's probably time we get rid of them and hire proper football management people who can juggle more than just building a team.

Payne made it clear that he understands that it's almost impossible to create a proper football atmosphere without a roof - unless the ENTIRE crowd is wildly into the game. But that's only something you see when a team is either a) new, or b) winning titles. Either way, I'd like to see a good atmosphere ALWAYS. We haven't had that for years. A roof would at least have helped with the atmosphere. Ours is by far the worst in the league - except maybe Chivas. We need a roof BADLY!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Irrelevant? It's irrelevant how many kids play the game? Who will play the game next if not our own kids?


It's irrelevant because pretty much none of those youth soccer players that play the game in the tens of thousands obviously don't watch tfc or mls on tv.

Pretty much none means some. You're comparing tv ratings from 60 years vs. 7. This is the first gen growing up with this league in their house but they've all played the sport. "Pretty much none" of kids play gridiron before they play footie.

[Fort York Redcoat]

That's not true...

The CFL television numbers are consistently EXCELLENT! A bad game, with a bad matchup, on a bad night, will bring in 500,000 min - a decent one 800,000+, playoffs into the millions, Grey Cup reaching 4-5 million...

And of that regular audience, it's proven to be an excellent lead in viewership.. The reason they play '1-game-per-day' type of schedule on Thurs-Fri-Sat is to use that lead in to SportsCentre... If 20% of the audience sticks around, you suddenly have over 100,000 people watching SC (which regularly happens after CFL games)...

CFL numbers are also strong coast-to-coast - and have very little regional spikes during games. Scheduling the games at the same time would only fragment your total audience, and wouldn't be smart scheduling. CFL fans, more than any other sport, watch all games - not just their home team. Obviously, with only 4-games per week, it's doable (a Blue Jay fan simply couldn't watch every MLB game - there just isn't enough hours in the day), but CFL fans are very loyal to the broadcasting rights holder - moreso than any other sport...

The reason for the Argos terrible home schedule is the Blue Jays. Their lease is basically free, and therefore they simply get 'leftover' dates - in fact, concerts/motorcross/kids-midway-week will get higher priority than the Argos at the RC (the Tuesday night being the perfect example)...

I don't want the Argos in BMO Field - but don't for a second think that the CFL isn't a massive TV property in this country... It brings in big numbers, and has loyal viewers (they watch the coverage of the league after the games are over), a perfect pairing when acquiring, scheduling, and broadcasting a sports property...

We're saying the same thing, Carts.

You just have more numbers lol. But Seriously we're talking from different sides of the coin. CFL maximizes viewership because CFL fans are a loyal patriotical lot and will watch the entire league because they can (it's so small). The other side of that coin is the and TSN would suffer if they took the model of the most successful gridiron in the world and schedule on the same day.

So Mulder while the Argos have the MOST idiotic schedule they are by no means alone in that since the biggest supporters of the league, TSN, benefits (and why shouldn't they've been pimping it ever since the coup from CBC).

[Fort York Redcoat]

Toronto seems to be the only city in the world that lacks overall civic pride for their sports teams.

Cute defense, Mulder. Plead civic unity while shitting on Skydome for not being gridiron friendly. How do you not get it's these very things we want to avoid with ground sharing now that we can avoid it?


I want the Argos ("The", not "My", not quite "Our") to have their own great mid sized stadium. Trackless, starting with a raised row one, inclines perfectly, and is Double Blue. Good Luck.

[Mulder]

Cute defense, Mulder. Plead civic unity while shitting on Skydome for not being gridiron friendly. How do you not get it's these very things we want to avoid with ground sharing now that we can avoid it?


How am I shitting on the Skydome by saying it's not football friendly? The slope of the seats in the 100 level are terrible for football, Both kinds. All I said is fixing the slope would make it a better facility, There is standards and guidelines for optional stadium viewing. And I haven't made the case for sharing grounds here. Putting words in my posts....

[Fort York Redcoat]

How am I shitting on the Skydome by saying it's not football friendly? The slope of the seats in the 100 level are terrible for football, Both kinds. All I said is fixing the slope would make it a better facility, There is standards and guidelines for optional stadium viewing. And I haven't made the case for sharing grounds here. Putting words in my posts....

But it doesn't need to be fixed by Baseball fans standards and that's who it was built for. Why should the boosters have to suffer for the secondary tenants?

And you're right, You didn't make a case for grounds sharing with TFC. Actually you haven't commented on the thread topic at all yet. As always, though, you're knowledge of all things Argos helps us out.

What are your thoughts on our stadium getting a roof without inviting the Argos to a renovated BMO?

[Mulder]

But it doesn't need to be fixed by Baseball fans standards and that's who it was built for. Why should the boosters have to suffer for the secondary tenants?

And you're right, You didn't make a case for grounds sharing with TFC. Actually you haven't commented on the thread topic at all yet. As always, though, you're knowledge of all things Argos helps us out.

What are your thoughts on our stadium getting a roof without inviting the Argos to a renovated BMO?

You made the incorrect statement about Argo Home dates at the Rogers Centre. So if your complaining about me not keeping it "on-topic" It went off-topic quite a few posts before that. Would you correct me if I made an incorrect or ignorant statement?

And I did comment on the thread topic. But my thoughts are

MLSE board won't put any money into any stadium expansion project until they sell the naming rights again. (2017).
The new CEO can spout off all he wants as well, until TFC puts a better product on the field, there's no reason to put money into a roof or any improvements. It won't attract any more fans.

In addition, Look at how automatic retractable seats work for Raptors/Leafs. I was never implying to "ruin" the baseball portion.

[Fort York Redcoat]

You made the incorrect statement about Argo Home dates at the Rogers Centre. So if your complaining about me not keeping it "on-topic" It went off-topic quite a few posts before that. Would you correct me if I made an incorrect or ignorant statement?

And I did comment on the thread topic. But my thoughts are

MLSE board won't put any money into any stadium expansion project until they sell the naming rights again. (2017).
The new CEO can spout off all he wants as well, until TFC puts a better product on the field, there's no reason to put money into a roof or any improvements. It won't attract any more fans.

In addition, Look at how automatic retractable seats work for Raptors/Leafs. I was never implying to "ruin" the baseball portion.

So I guess both teams are in the same boat in that they have to improve their following to see any stadium developments. And as difficult as it seems for Toronto to improve I'm not sure there's much more Argos could do to look attractive as a Roger's Centre tenant.

Congrats on the Cup, though. If it wasn't for the drought, they'd be the Yankees of the CFL...

[Mulder]

So I guess both teams are in the same boat in that they have to improve their following to see any stadium developments. And as difficult as it seems for Toronto to improve I'm not sure there's much more Argos could do to look attractive as a Roger's Centre tenant.


Moving out towards Downsview into a smaller facility would do wonders. Probably around 24k-26k max. Argos know most of their fanbase lives in the 905. David Braley is already looking at locations, this has been confirmed. It's also been all but confirmed that this is the argos last lease renewal at Skydome. I've said in my forum, the less we hear about a new stadium over the next 3-4 years, the more likley a BMO reno is going to happen. I'd like to see them in their own facility. But seeing as I'm now living in Ottawa (3km from Lansdowne) I'll be attending more games here. Fury included!

[OgtheDim]

Oh my gosh......its all true.

We are getting a roof.


Terry said so. http://www.rednationonline.ca/Interviews2012/RedNationInterviewSeriesTerryDunfield.aspx


Since I arrived TFC now has an impressive academy, has built a world class training ground and I hear that changes to the stadium are on the horizon.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Moving out towards Downsview into a smaller facility would do wonders. Probably around 24k-26k max. Argos know most of their fanbase lives in the 905. David Braley is already looking at locations, this has been confirmed. It's also been all but confirmed that this is the argos last lease renewal at Skydome. I've said in my forum, the less we hear about a new stadium over the next 3-4 years, the more likley a BMO reno is going to happen. I'd like to see them in their own facility. But seeing as I'm now living in Ottawa (3km from Lansdowne) I'll be attending more games here. Fury included!

Way to Support the Local. Kudos.:thumbsup:

[Oldtimer]

Oh my gosh......its all true.

We are getting a roof.


Terry said so. http://www.rednationonline.ca/Interviews2012/RedNationInterviewSeriesTerryDunfield.aspx

What's also amazing is when he says this about the club that waived him:



Terry Dunfield: I loved my 18 months at TFC. It felt like 5 years!!! It’s not easy with so much change on and off the field. However, I truly believe the club is moving in the right direction.

[Super]

Oh my gosh......its all true.

We are getting a roof.


Terry said so. http://www.rednationonline.ca/Interviews2012/RedNationInterviewSeriesTerryDunfield.aspx

No mention of a roof.

I truly think one is coming. Unless the idea is killed off by supporters who don't want a roof. There's a first time for everything in the world of football - all part of TFC madness LOL

[CFL]

We're saying the same thing, Carts.

You just have more numbers lol. But Seriously we're talking from different sides of the coin. CFL maximizes viewership because CFL fans are a loyal patriotical lot and will watch the entire league because they can (it's so small). The other side of that coin is the and TSN would suffer if they took the model of the most successful gridiron in the world and schedule on the same day.

So Mulder while the Argos have the MOST idiotic schedule they are by no means alone in that since the biggest supporters of the league, TSN, benefits (and why shouldn't they've been pimping it ever since the coup from CBC).


Really-- " CFL fans are a loyal patriotical lot" ? this is something the scarf crowd long to be. Just say no to soccer MOMS! They're ruin our chanting! Funny how people always hate the things they want to become.

[CFL]

For those living without TV and use the world wide web, when soccer in this city becomes what football is to this city, let me know. When soccer in this country has a nine team pro league that draw 22K a game, has great TV ratings and whose national team isn't sitting at 91 in the world with tons of room underneath it, let me know. The Canadian U-19 team beat the US U-19 last year to become World Champs...

When soccer has a strong competitive and serious feeder system, as football in the country does, Laval a university team draws what TFC does ( and 18 university programs that draw well- over 2K a game) , a youth system that has has a network of websites promoting it and the sport can get more people to watch it than the 33 who do now..Let's face it, after TFC- soccer in this is a game like golf. People play, aren't very good at it, and once in a while watch the big events. And without the welfare money, BMO is never built, MLSE never buys in. There is no team.

So back to the roof. Unless MLSE pays for it, it ain't happening again. They had there turn at the tit of the public purse. Baseball was given the Skydome. The Pan AM covers a ton of sports. It's football turn for the welfare money. And there is enough demand and push for it.

Cheers,

For those that mock football, here the local youth page, one of a few, enjoy

http://ww2.canadafootballchat.com/

[ag futbol]

For those living without TV and use the world wide web, when soccer in this city becomes what football is to this city, let me know. When soccer in this country has a nine team pro league that draw 22K a game, has great TV ratings and whose national team isn't sitting at 91 in the world with tons of room underneath it, let me know. The Canadian U-19 team beat the US U-19 last year to become World Champs...

When soccer has a strong competitive and serious feeder system, as football in the country does, Laval a university team draws what TFC does ( and 18 university programs that draw well- over 2K a game) , a youth system that has has a network of websites promoting it and the sport can get more people to watch it than the 33 who do now..Let's face it, after TFC- soccer in this is a game like golf. People play, aren't very good at it, and once in a while watch the big events. And without the welfare money, BMO is never built, MLSE never buys in. There is no team.

So back to the roof. Unless MLSE pays for it, it ain't happening again. They had there turn at the tit of the public purse. Baseball was given the Skydome. The Pan AM covers a ton of sports. It's football turn for the welfare money. And there is enough demand and push for it.

Cheers,

For those that mock football, here the local youth page, one of a few, enjoy

http://ww2.canadafootballchat.com/
Think you are probably posting in the wrong place.

[Masked Man]

So back to the roof. Unless MLSE pays for it, it ain't happening again. They had there turn at the tit of the public purse. Baseball was given the Skydome. The Pan AM covers a ton of sports. It's football turn for the welfare money. And there is enough demand and push for it.


Agreed. If they are going to put a roof & do other upgrades to BMO then MLSE better be ponying up the money for that. Lord only knows they have taken enough of it from this community.

As far as the Argos go. I'm in agreement with those that say that they need their OWN stadium. All this moving to BMO field talk is just garbage from soccer haters or just ignorant people. Part of me has always wondered why the Argos made no push when Hamilton was boggling the Pan-Am stadium stuff? They should have been more aggressive in trying to get that stadium. Anyways I hope they do get their own building because I think it would be a big positive for them.

[BeachTory]

Moving out towards Downsview into a smaller facility would do wonders. Probably around 24k-26k max. Argos know most of their fanbase lives in the 905. David Braley is already looking at locations, this has been confirmed. It's also been all but confirmed that this is the argos last lease renewal at Skydome. I've said in my forum, the less we hear about a new stadium over the next 3-4 years, the more likley a BMO reno is going to happen. I'd like to see them in their own facility. But seeing as I'm now living in Ottawa (3km from Lansdowne) I'll be attending more games here. Fury included!

Ah, the penny drops.

so how is it that the long game that MLSE plays does not get the respect they deserve?

the reason the academy went to downsview was the lease at downsview. MLSE has an exclusive to build stadia and host pro sport at downsview. That means no arena for toronto nhl2. That means no NFL unless MLSE involved (Liewicke was hired for the future of MLSE, not just its incumbent businesses). And it sure means no CFL stadium at downsview.

So, once the subway expansion is done, where does the tenant with a downsview stadium plan in its backpocket get the leverage to have the city pay for all the upgrades at BMO? Rob ford, come on down- the argos need a better home eventually.

downsview. Own all the revenue sources. Major traffic access car and transit. Central location. All the things the nfl look for.
oh yah, through a few mls games in there to spread the costs around. This works. Leave bmo to the city. Let the Argos and or the city tear it half down to make it cfl ready.

Rogers centre not good for NFL and worse mlse would be a tenant. Blue jays want grass. The NFL will not consider the rogers centre.

nfl is the mlse long game. Downsview site is locked up. Any bmo changes would be for only the half of the stadium not destined to be torn down to fit the cfl field. And mlse will pay nothing for those changes since they dont want to be in that stadium longer term anyway.

[Haddy]

Ah, the penny drops.

so how is it that the long game that MLSE plays does not get the respect they deserve?

the reason the academy went to downsview was the lease at downsview. MLSE has an exclusive to build stadia and host pro sport at downsview. That means no arena for toronto nhl2. That means no NFL unless MLSE involved (Liewicke was hired for the future of MLSE, not just its incumbent businesses). And it sure means no CFL stadium at downsview.

So, once the subway expansion is done, where does the tenant with a downsview stadium plan in its backpocket get the leverage to have the city pay for all the upgrades at BMO? Rob ford, come on down- the argos need a better home eventually.

downsview. Own all the revenue sources. Major traffic access car and transit. Central location. All the things the nfl look for.
oh yah, through a few mls games in there to spread the costs around. This works. Leave bmo to the city. Let the Argos and or the city tear it half down to make it cfl ready.

Rogers centre not good for NFL and worse mlse would be a tenant. Blue jays want grass. The NFL will not consider the rogers centre.

nfl is the mlse long game. Downsview site is locked up. Any bmo changes would be for only the half of the stadium not destined to be torn down to fit the cfl field. And mlse will pay nothing for those changes since they dont want to be in that stadium longer term anyway.

Nice conspiracy theory...

but you neglected to mention that the NFL prohibits corporate owners. MLSE can own the stadium, that's it.

edit: Any BMO changes would be for the portion they don't intent on tearing down to make a more permanent stand. Hell 3 out of 4 stands there are made of paper and ready for expansion.

[OgtheDim]

For those living without TV and use the world wide web, when soccer in this city becomes what football is to this city, let me know. When soccer in this country has a nine team pro league that draw 22K a game, has great TV ratings and whose national team isn't sitting at 91 in the world with tons of room underneath it, let me know. The Canadian U-19 team beat the US U-19 last year to become World Champs...

When soccer has a strong competitive and serious feeder system, as football in the country does, Laval a university team draws what TFC does ( and 18 university programs that draw well- over 2K a game) , a youth system that has has a network of websites promoting it and the sport can get more people to watch it than the 33 who do now..Let's face it, after TFC- soccer in this is a game like golf. People play, aren't very good at it, and once in a while watch the big events. And without the welfare money, BMO is never built, MLSE never buys in. There is no team.

So back to the roof. Unless MLSE pays for it, it ain't happening again. They had there turn at the tit of the public purse. Baseball was given the Skydome. The Pan AM covers a ton of sports. It's football turn for the welfare money. And there is enough demand and push for it.

Cheers,

For those that mock football, here the local youth page, one of a few, enjoy

http://ww2.canadafootballchat.com/


So now you just repeat points critiqued by me and other CFL fans on here, and expect people to just....what.......agree with you?


Nah, ur a troll.

[SoccMan2]

"CFL" you are still upset that the Argos screwed up and in the end instead of getting their own stadium will be homeless in a few years. Don't be upset at soccer in Toronto, you should be upset at the former Argo owners who were about to get a stadium deal at York with the CSA as partners but bailed at the last minute and went back to the Rogers center. They left the soccer people high and dry. However, in came MLSE and voila a soccer only stadium was built without the Argos, justice my friend justice, what is that saying about karma, ya you know it. I have been listening to people like you soccer haters for years the hate on for soccer is incredible with some of you guys. Like I said you are just upset that TFC has a soccer stadium and the Argos don't, but after so many years of soccer bashing in this city by people like you I so love it that things turned out the way they did buddy!

[BeachTory]

Nice conspiracy theory...

but you neglected to mention that the NFL prohibits corporate owners. MLSE can own the stadium, that's it.

edit: Any BMO changes would be for the portion they don't intent on tearing down to make a more permanent stand. Hell 3 out of 4 stands there are made of paper and ready for expansion.


You might call it conspiracy but i call it planning. You are quite right that people own teams in the NFL but the NFL is really after low transparency ( no public companies) and very rich people that can make decisions for the franchise (private companies ok, just not corporate with a large independant board) Edward jr and Belinda Rogers are those types of people, but not Rogers communications. They have invested heavily to position themselves to buy the Bills franchise from Ralph Wilson. His estate tax issues is why the team will be sold on his demise. Just one option but certainly a good NFL fit considering the TV and media aspects.

you cite the main reason why Teachers pension was not going to be able to execute the long term NFL plan for mlse. Btw the downsview deal aspects comes from a source at teachers a few years back.

[OgtheDim]

A few reasons why that won't happen quiet like you think.

A CFL field can't fit into BMO without blowing up every part of the stands and going about 200 extra feet to the south. The city is not going to spend the needed money and the Argos don't have it.

An NFL stadium would cost $1 - $2 Billion. Governments are not going to pay for that. And Rogers is not going to spend that amount of coin either.

And, there is reason to believe that the NFL themselves are rather sour on Toronto, and in particular Rogers.


The NFL would rather move the Bills to LA, or Jacksonville, after the Jags move to London.

Toronto is WAY down their list of liked cities, and Rogers is not popular.

[Macksam]

For those living without TV and use the world wide web, when soccer in this city becomes what football is to this city, let me know. When soccer in this country has a nine team pro league that draw 22K a game, has great TV ratings and whose national team isn't sitting at 91 in the world with tons of room underneath it, let me know. The Canadian U-19 team beat the US U-19 last year to become World Champs...

When soccer has a strong competitive and serious feeder system, as football in the country does, Laval a university team draws what TFC does ( and 18 university programs that draw well- over 2K a game) , a youth system that has has a network of websites promoting it and the sport can get more people to watch it than the 33 who do now..Let's face it, after TFC- soccer in this is a game like golf. People play, aren't very good at it, and once in a while watch the big events. And without the welfare money, BMO is never built, MLSE never buys in. There is no team.

So back to the roof. Unless MLSE pays for it, it ain't happening again. They had there turn at the tit of the public purse. Baseball was given the Skydome. The Pan AM covers a ton of sports. It's football turn for the welfare money. And there is enough demand and push for it.

Cheers,

For those that mock football, here the local youth page, one of a few, enjoy

http://ww2.canadafootballchat.com/
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4rWhZV598i2G2Jm6Q7dH7LZH4Sx4eG 0_-5sZdPeyIDHf2pIgkxw
Soccer is more popular than football in this city.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think we end up getting some improvements on the stadium but nothing crazy. I say we get some type of roof over some sections. Won't be a full one for sure. That Wifi network will probably go in as it's pretty easy to do and I wouldn't be shocked if they built a bar like they have in KC. That's a money maker so I wouldn't be surprised if they did that.

[prizby]

BTW- How is Chivas doing at the gate? Maybe those mexicans would rather got to UCLA football games.

You somehow concluded that all Mexican's like Chivas? If I am Mexican living in the LA area and my team is Pumas or Monterrey or Club America or Tigres or Santos Laputa, why the hell would I support Chivas and the Chivas brand?

[prizby]

For those living without TV and use the world wide web, when soccer in this city becomes what football is to this city, let me know. When soccer in this country has a nine team pro league that draw 22K a game, has great TV ratings and whose national team isn't sitting at 91 in the world with tons of room underneath it, let me know. The Canadian U-19 team beat the US U-19 last year to become World Champs...


I didn't know the Canadian u-19 team beat the US u-19 team...must not have been on tv? I wonder why? I do remember watching the Canadian U-20 and U-17 football (soccer) teams on tv though

wonder why the canadian gridiron team wasn't on tv since it is soooooo BIG in Canada

[Haddy]

For those living without TV and use the world wide web, when soccer in this city becomes what football is to this city, let me know. When soccer in this country has a nine team pro league that draw 22K a game, has great TV ratings and whose national team isn't sitting at 91 in the world with tons of room underneath it, let me know. The Canadian U-19 team beat the US U-19 last year to become World Champs...

When soccer has a strong competitive and serious feeder system, as football in the country does, Laval a university team draws what TFC does ( and 18 university programs that draw well- over 2K a game) , a youth system that has has a network of websites promoting it and the sport can get more people to watch it than the 33 who do now..Let's face it, after TFC- soccer in this is a game like golf. People play, aren't very good at it, and once in a while watch the big events. And without the welfare money, BMO is never built, MLSE never buys in. There is no team.

So back to the roof. Unless MLSE pays for it, it ain't happening again. They had there turn at the tit of the public purse. Baseball was given the Skydome. The Pan AM covers a ton of sports. It's football turn for the welfare money. And there is enough demand and push for it.

Cheers,

For those that mock football, here the local youth page, one of a few, enjoy

http://ww2.canadafootballchat.com/

Argos owners aren't stupid. They won't build a damn thing until they know for certain what's happening with the NFL in Toronto. Listen, I respect the CFL. But the two leagues can't live in the same market.

And your comparison is ridiculous. You can't compare a league that has been around for decades to something that has been in the country for 7 years. I agree, no-foot football sells more tickets right now. But the eclipse is coming fast and there isn't a darned thing you can do about it. Just look at the numbers and weep.

[Fort York Redcoat]

For those living without TV and use the world wide web, when soccer in this city becomes what football is to this city, let me know. When soccer in this country has a nine team pro league that draw 22K a game, has great TV ratings and whose national team isn't sitting at 91 in the world with tons of room underneath it, let me know. The Canadian U-19 team beat the US U-19 last year to become World Champs...

When soccer has a strong competitive and serious feeder system, as football in the country does, Laval a university team draws what TFC does ( and 18 university programs that draw well- over 2K a game) , a youth system that has has a network of websites promoting it and the sport can get more people to watch it than the 33 who do now..Let's face it, after TFC- soccer in this is a game like golf. People play, aren't very good at it, and once in a while watch the big events. And without the welfare money, BMO is never built, MLSE never buys in. There is no team.

So back to the roof. Unless MLSE pays for it, it ain't happening again. They had there turn at the tit of the public purse. Baseball was given the Skydome. The Pan AM covers a ton of sports. It's football turn for the welfare money. And there is enough demand and push for it.

Cheers,

For those that mock football, here the local youth page, one of a few, enjoy


World Champs of what? Canadian Football? That's what we play here. Until the game is played the same way I can't see how valid a comparison is. And your favourite league has been at the tit a lot longer than our game here. Remember where you are before you troll, please.

My hopes for this game is greater than becoming a second rate league in our own nation. There's a long way to go but I'll keep at it, thanks. Good luck with your own sport soapbox. I'm not interested.

[Mulder]

But the eclipse is coming fast and there isn't a darned thing you can do about it. Just look at the numbers and weep.

Been hearing this for the past 7 years. Still waiting for it to happen. Only saving grace with TFC attendance wise this season was year 1 pricing. Lots of my friends say that's why they stayed or didn't drop tickets

Numbers:
http://mlsattendance.blogspot.ca/
http://twelvemenonthefield.blogspot.ca/2013/07/cfl-attendance-tracker-2013.html

And a CFL game out draws the MLS on ESPN

http://sonofthebronx.blogspot.ca/2013/08/espn-espn2-and-espnu-ratings-july-22-28.html

If you think it's coming fast, your wrong. Those are the numbers to prove it.

[TFC07]

Been hearing this for the past 7 years. Still waiting for it to happen. Only saving grace with TFC attendance wise this season was year 1 pricing. Lots of my friends say that's why they stayed or didn't drop tickets

Numbers:
http://mlsattendance.blogspot.ca/
http://twelvemenonthefield.blogspot.ca/2013/07/cfl-attendance-tracker-2013.html

And a CFL game out draws the MLS on ESPN

http://sonofthebronx.blogspot.ca/2013/08/espn-espn2-and-espnu-ratings-july-22-28.html

If you think it's coming fast, your wrong. Those are the numbers to prove it.

Many people underestimate CFL when comes to TV ratings (they even get better TV ratings than Blue Jays), but the upside for CFL is pretty limited in the long term. Soccer is on the rise and you got to admit it has a lot more potential of doing well in Toronto than football/Argos given our demography. NFL isn't coming to Toronto especially after Bill series failing to sell out.

CFL in Toronto is on a deathbed IMO. Once they're kicked out Rogers centre and leave downtown Toronto to move to eastern part 905 region (Oshawa), then they're going to be forgotten in Toronto. They might as well change their name to Oshawa Argos or Ontario Argos once they leave Toronto.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Been hearing this for the past 7 years. Still waiting for it to happen. Only saving grace with TFC attendance wise this season was year 1 pricing. Lots of my friends say that's why they stayed or didn't drop tickets

Numbers:
http://mlsattendance.blogspot.ca/
http://twelvemenonthefield.blogspot.ca/2013/07/cfl-attendance-tracker-2013.html

And a CFL game out draws the MLS on ESPN

http://sonofthebronx.blogspot.ca/2013/08/espn-espn2-and-espnu-ratings-july-22-28.html

If you think it's coming fast, your wrong. Those are the numbers to prove it.

Glad to see you'll stick around for it though. I think it'll be a close race between it and a 10th CFL franchise.

Ontario Argos, though? Would that a merger of 2 or 3 teams? And if so, perhaps renaming them the RougherRiders? Thoughts?g:D

[TFC07]

Glad to see you'll stick around for it though. I think it'll be a close race between it and a 10th CFL franchise.

Ontario Argos, though? Would that a merger of 2 or 3 teams? And if so, perhaps renaming them the RougherRiders? Thoughts?g:D

Hamilton aren't doing too well either and Ottawa isn't stable market. So who's know what happens in the future for Ontario CFL teams.

[OgtheDim]

Don't forget, Braley owns the Argos really as a favour to the league. He's not going to be putting money into a new stadium.

[Mulder]

Many people underestimate CFL when comes to TV ratings (they even get better TV ratings than Blue Jays), but the upside for CFL is pretty limited in the long term. Soccer is on the rise and you got to admit it has a lot more potential of doing well in Toronto than football/Argos given our demography. NFL isn't coming to Toronto especially after Bill series failing to sell out.

CFL in Toronto is on a deathbed IMO. Once they're kicked out Rogers centre and leave downtown Toronto to move to eastern part 905 region (Oshawa), then they're going to be forgotten in Toronto. They might as well change their name to Oshawa Argos or Ontario Argos once they leave Toronto.

Speaking of Blue Jay Ratings. I do find it odd they get higher ratings than the Yankee's in a city with a metro population more than Canada.

I know in the opinion of some CFL is on it's deathbed in Toronto. However, it has it niche market. The practice of giving away tickets has stopped. And the crowds this season have been getting better and better. (noise wise) You have to remember too, there was a time not to long ago where even the Sask Roughriders were drawing less than 20,000 in the stands, now well over 35k average this season.

Personally I'm hoping for a move to Downsview. in a 24-27k stadium.

[Mulder]

Don't forget, Braley owns the Argos really as a favour to the league. He's not going to be putting money into a new stadium.

He's already engaged a construction company to look around for locations for a stadium. Lets not forget he's a senator :P

[Mulder]

Hamilton aren't doing too well either and Ottawa isn't stable market. So who's know what happens in the future for Ontario CFL teams.

Ottawa will do fine with the new ownership, SMS and the TV revenue. It was the gongshow ownership that refused to invest in the product. They had 12,000 season ticket holders when the Renegades folded. FYI.

If you consider MLSE bad ownership. I suggest you read into this character.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Glieberman

[TFC07]

Speaking of Blue Jay Ratings. I do find it odd they get higher ratings than the Yankee's in a city with a metro population more than Canada.

I know in the opinion of some CFL is on it's deathbed in Toronto. However, it has it niche market. The practice of giving away tickets has stopped. And the crowds this season have been getting better and better. (noise wise) You have to remember too, there was a time not to long ago where even the Sask Roughriders were drawing less than 20,000 in the stands, now well over 35k average this season.

Personally I'm hoping for a move to Downsview. in a 24-27k stadium.

I hope that's the case. Downsview or York University would be ideal place to play (close to subway and major highway). Leaving 416 region is a bad idea wouldn't sit well for people in the city.

In an ideal world, Argos find a way to stay at Rogers Centre and get Rogers to buy them.

[Macksam]

Speaking of Blue Jay Ratings. I do find it odd they get higher ratings than the Yankee's in a city with a metro population more than Canada.



They did some decent marketing this year combined with the hype.

[superstar1976]

So, I go to the game on Saturday with my wifes cousins here for a vacation from Ireland, and the first thing they ask me is "why haven't you got a roof over the stadium?".

[Masked Man]

Speaking of Blue Jay Ratings. I do find it odd they get higher ratings than the Yankee's in a city with a metro population more than Canada.

Probably because Sportsnet is on a crusade to jam the Blue Jays & the sport of baseball down everyone's throat.

[Blizzard]

Probably because Sportsnet is on a crusade to jam the Blue Jays & the sport of baseball down everyone's throat.

It certainly doesn't hurt that all the games are on the same place on the dial. We all know how much fun it is trying to find TFC games when they could be on TSN, TSN2, RSN, RSN ONE or maybe even RSN360. The only good thing is that they aren't on GOL anymore.

[Masked Man]

It certainly doesn't hurt that all the games are on the same place on the dial. We all know how much fun it is trying to find TFC games when they could be on TSN, TSN2, RSN, RSN ONE or maybe even RSN360. The only good thing is that they aren't on GOL anymore.

I don't want to get too off track but the amount of sports channels we have is just overkill. There isn't enough content to justify it all. All there really doing to spreading out the stuff you used to get & charging you more for it. It's not like they are developing all this new stuff to add to your sports viewing.

[SoccMan2]

" Mulder" why are you here on a soccer forum of a pro soccer team, yes we know the CFL is great, the Argos are great, soccer or TFC or MLS will never top CFL football in terms of popularity here in Canada. What else, oh ya CFL does even better on American TV than even the MLS in terms of ratings. Why do you find it necessary that you have to come on a soccer forum to remind us of this, what is your point, I don't get it? Do I waste my time going on a CFL or Argos forum and post facts about TFC or soccer in general, no I don't, what would be the purpose. We get it " Mulder" you get a hard on just from the mention of CFL or the Argos, yes Mulder we get it son.

[Mulder]

" Mulder" why are you here on a soccer forum of a pro soccer team, yes we know the CFL is great, the Argos are great, soccer or TFC or MLS will never top CFL football in terms of popularity here in Canada. What else, oh ya CFL does even better on American TV than even the MLS in terms of ratings. Why do you find it necessary that you have to come on a soccer forum to remind us of this, what is your point, I don't get it? Do I waste my time going on a CFL or Argos forum and post facts about TFC or soccer in general, no I don't, what would be the purpose. We get it " Mulder" you get a hard on just from the mention of CFL or the Argos, yes Mulder we get it son.

Because you were spewing incorrect statements and playing them off as facts. The rest was all part of the conversation. Maybe you'd learn something.

[OgtheDim]

He's already engaged a construction company to look around for locations for a stadium. Lets not forget he's a senator :P

Yeah....not going very well for them right now.

Oh, and just because Braley paid for somebody to look at sites doesn't mean he is willing to put up the $200 million + it would cost for a decent CFL stadium in Toronto.

No way the Feds pay for an Argo stadium. Not when they didn't put all that much into Winnipeg and Regina.

[Mulder]

Yeah....not going very well for them right now.

Oh, and just because Braley paid for somebody to look at sites doesn't mean he is willing to put up the $200 million + it would cost for a decent CFL stadium in Toronto.

No way the Feds pay for an Argo stadium. Not when they didn't put all that much into Winnipeg and Regina.

I can't find a specific source, and can't remember if the Feds gave anything at all to Winnipeg. Wiki says Bombers paying back 85million, with City and Provence sharing the rest.
Sask may have to scale back it's plans now too with Potash prices dropping.

IMO, If Rogers is kicking out the Argo's they'll be political will to get something done.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I can't find a specific source, and can't remember if the Feds gave anything at all to Winnipeg. Wiki says Bombers paying back 85million, with City and Provence sharing the rest.
Sask may have to scale back it's plans now too with Potash prices dropping.

IMO, If Rogers is kicking out the Argo's they'll be political will to get something done.

Bank on it. The Jays want grass and don't want you playing on it. And I agree with you on the political will. This is why this convo will escalate over the next season. So basically, the most likely scenario where everybody is happy is if a new stadium is built at Downsview. I'll cross all my fingers and toes for you.

[Macksam]

" Mulder" why are you here on a soccer forum of a pro soccer team, yes we know the CFL is great, the Argos are great, soccer or TFC or MLS will never top CFL football in terms of popularity here in Canada. What else, oh ya CFL does even better on American TV than even the MLS in terms of ratings. Why do you find it necessary that you have to come on a soccer forum to remind us of this, what is your point, I don't get it? Do I waste my time going on a CFL or Argos forum and post facts about TFC or soccer in general, no I don't, what would be the purpose. We get it " Mulder" you get a hard on just from the mention of CFL or the Argos, yes Mulder we get it son.
Maybe not in Canada. However, TFC will top the Argos in Toronto easily. They probably already have in all honesty and in ten years time, it will be no contest.

[nonc]

Reading and Burnley have good looking basic roofs and are the same capacity. Sporting Park also looks nice if TFC are trying to maintain the open air element...but I think you already get that with the seating breaks in the corners.

[BeachTory]

Bank on it. The Jays want grass and don't want you playing on it. And I agree with you on the political will. This is why this convo will escalate over the next season. So basically, the most likely scenario where everybody is happy is if a new stadium is built at Downsview. I'll cross all my fingers and toes for you.

Argos or anyone for that matter can not build pro sport stadium at downsview without mlse approval and or involvment. MLSE have an exclusive for Downsview that is part of their land lease for the TFC traning facility. Keep looking...MLSE has NFL eyes for Downsview.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Argos or anyone for that matter can not build pro sport stadium at downsview without mlse approval and or involvment. MLSE have an exclusive for Downsview that is part of their land lease for the TFC traning facility. Keep looking...MLSE has NFL eyes for Downsview.

But isn't this exactly the preference?

If political leaning was an issue and you had 2 possible locations:

1 is not yours and has to go through approvals and refurbishings some fans don't care to see or
2 is your property and you could build another bare bones stadium for gridiron use and then expand if another league came to town.

Just spitballing with a hope in hell.

[sidvan]

Let's just get a roof and the Argos can go build something at Woodbine. A lot of space out there.

[glaze]

The NFL in Toronto is a non-factor. Their ownership rules make it near impossible for MLSE to own the team. The government is not going to build us a billion dollar stadium after the SkyDome lesson.

Toronto sports got shafted with this Pan Am fiasco. Hamilton got a "new" football stadium to host soccer matches (what was wrong with BMO?), U of T got a pool and field hockey facility, and we got a BMX course in centennial park. Plus we lost out on the Women's World Cup.

The Argos are in a tough position because they lack strong ownership. They had a chance to go to Varsity, to go to York U and to go to BMO. When it came time to put up money, they took the free rent that was offered at the Dome. The team appears to be an afterthought, but their crowds would sell out BMO. The Dome is too big, the sightlines stink, and there is no atmosphere. Imagine watching TFC in there with a crowd of 18,000. Put them at York, Downsview or Woodbine, allow tailgating, and you'd have a much different experience.

As for stadium improvements, we've seen 2 in 7 years. Not sure what the complete decision making behind the grass was. But the north stand was built due to demand. MLSE thinks in terms of $$$, we know that. So until the team starts winning and the stadium is 100 % full, I don't see them making any changes.

[nonc]

Plus we lost out on the Women's World Cup.

Which is ridiculous. Olympic stadium - likely with turf? Haha.

[OgtheDim]

Which is ridiculous. Olympic stadium - likely with turf? Haha.


You can blame Joey Pants for that one. For some reason, nobody was able to explain to him that the Women's World Cup is actually a bigger stage then the Pan Am games. And both could have been done here easily.

Staff were instructed, but not by council, to not put the city in for that event. There was a rumour that a Star columnist (Mary Ormsby) was ready to go with a column wondering why and it was spiked.

[nonc]

You can blame Joey Pants for that one. For some reason, nobody was able to explain to him that the Women's World Cup is actually a bigger stage then the Pan Am games. And both could have been done here easily.

Staff were instructed, but not by council, to not put the city in for that event. There was a rumour that a Star columnist (Mary Ormsby) was ready to go with a column wondering why and it was spiked.

Consolation will be if the full team plays the Pan-Am in defense of their gold, but being so soon after WC I can also imagine a youth team showing up like what Brazil did.

[jazzy]

Argos or anyone for that matter can not build pro sport stadium at downsview without mlse approval and or involvment. MLSE have an exclusive for Downsview that is part of their land lease for the TFC traning facility. Keep looking...MLSE has NFL eyes for Downsview.

but mlse can't purchase an NFL team.....who's the single owner?

[jazzy]

I think we now have ownership that is not small town, tight fisted, in that they know if you create an event city people will flock to it. (good or bad), Therefore as much to their ability they will try to upgrade the 'event' in every which way.

[flatpicker]

Canada beat the U.S. in rugby WC qualifying at BMO field today.
TBH, I didn't even hear about this game... I might have considered going.

Anyway, it made me think about the fears of sharing the pitch with others.
Did anyone attend?
Is the pitch still in one piece?

[CFL]

Canada beat the U.S. in rugby WC qualifying at BMO field today.
TBH, I didn't even hear about this game... I might have considered going.

Anyway, it made me think about the fears of sharing the pitch with others.
Did anyone attend?
Is the pitch still in one piece?

A bunch of UK clubs share grounds with Rugby clubs. Newport County comes to mind. If a League Two team can do it, why can't an MLS pitch survive 9-10 international rugby games?

[flatpicker]

A bunch of UK clubs share grounds with Rugby clubs. Newport County comes to mind. If a League Two team can do it, why can't an MLS pitch survive 9-10 international rugby games?

I'm actually a fan of Bristol Rovers and been to some games there. They share the pitch with Bristol Rugby Club and from what I've seen and heard, the pitch does suffer.

[T-boy]

My English team Oxford share their ground with London Irish rugby team. The pitch hold up reasonably well, but when it rains in the winter the pitch does get pretty torn up and I would say it does change the qualty of football games when you can't pass through midfield very well.

[habstfc]

A bunch of UK clubs share grounds with Rugby clubs. Newport County comes to mind. If a League Two team can do it, why can't an MLS pitch survive 9-10 international rugby games?Only 3 games this year I believe.