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tfcmanu
07-09-2013, 10:26 AM
D.C. United acquires midfielder Luis Silva from Toronto FC


http://www.dcunited.com/news/2013/07/dc-united-acquires-midfielder-luis-silva-from-toronto-fc (http://www.dcunited.com/news/2013/07/dc-united-acquires-midfielder-luis-silva-from-toronto-fc)

Leedsoronto
07-09-2013, 10:28 AM
WTF

Whyyyyyyyy??????

jabbronies
07-09-2013, 10:29 AM
fuck

pekduck
07-09-2013, 10:30 AM
For allocation money???? We better get like 4 million in this fiat currency made up by MLS...

Dv23
07-09-2013, 10:30 AM
There's a storm coming, Mr. Payne. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us.

metaxa
07-09-2013, 10:32 AM
Wtf just happened

cmonyoureds
07-09-2013, 10:33 AM
Hmmm..............why would TFC need an instant injection of allocation $?
Maybe the negotiations in Uruguay went higher than they thought?

Ageroo
07-09-2013, 10:33 AM
Silva plays Forlan's role...that's what happened....or I am hoping lol...

Abou Sky
07-09-2013, 10:34 AM
Silva plays Forlan's role...that's what happened....or I am hoping lol...

No, I would say that is about bang on

flamehawk
07-09-2013, 10:35 AM
.... wow, not very happy with this trade at all. Silva was a great prospect.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 10:35 AM
Just want to point out I called this about a month and half ago....People called me crazy.

loconet
07-09-2013, 10:35 AM
fuck

fuck is right. Silva is easily one of the best players in this team. Someone that could be part of the backbone for years to come. A long term solution. If they made this trade just to fit Forlan (position wise and money wise) I'm going to be pissed.

pekduck
07-09-2013, 10:35 AM
Silva plays Forlan's role...that's what happened....or I am hoping lol...

if and only if.... forlan or not... better be a DP AM

tfcleeds
07-09-2013, 10:36 AM
Don't know why we'd trade a major part of our young core away. TFC works in mysterious ways - I've given up trying to figure out this club.

barticusz
07-09-2013, 10:36 AM
Huge dislike. I was looking forward to Silva playing alongside DP player's talent level. If this means another young player (along the lines of Urruti) is signing.. then I am ok with it. If not.. WTF.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 10:36 AM
I really hope this is a move made to make room for something else.

If it's just for the allocation money and because Nelsen/Payne don't rate him...well colour me not surprised.

brad
07-09-2013, 10:38 AM
Looking for a bit of instant gratification methinks. Gotta start winning now so they can rollback those year one season ticket prices.

TFC07
07-09-2013, 10:38 AM
Just want to point out I called this about a month and half ago....People called me crazy.

I said this during off-season. lol I got blasted on here for being crazy, but who's the crazy one now? lol

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 10:39 AM
Just want to point out I called this about a month and half ago....People called me crazy.
I didn't. His play improved a bit recently but I don't see him as a game changer, even in the future. Hopefully besides Forlan this helps score these other 3 or 4 players that are on the radar.

Solo La Maglia
07-09-2013, 10:40 AM
Wtf, this would not justify Forlan. Thus i have come to the conclusion we are getting Forlan and Urriti. I mean there is no way we would traded a possible future core player for a couple year DP player. Or is there?

cmonyoureds
07-09-2013, 10:40 AM
Press release says "we are bringing in ATTACKING options this transfer window and his playing time would have suffered" or close to that.

Jack
07-09-2013, 10:40 AM
If we are bringing in Urruti, that somewhat mitigates the sting of Silva leaving. Silva's not actually that young, being 24 already, so maybe KP and Nelsen have come to the conclusion that this is about the most we'll get from him and they are looking for more. Osorio can play the same role as Silva and he's younger and has done more this season.

Nuvinho
07-09-2013, 10:42 AM
also maybe Silva's salary is going to increase next year? How much was he making/going to make?

TFC07
07-09-2013, 10:42 AM
If we are bringing in Urruti, that somewhat mitigates the sting of Silva leaving. Silva's not actually that young, being 24 already, so maybe KP and Nelsen have come to the conclusion that this is about the most we'll get from him and they are looking for more. Osorio can play the same role as Silva and he's younger and has done more this season.

This is true. Silva is no longer a prospect given his age, and plus Osorio play makes Silva expendable.

Ageroo
07-09-2013, 10:42 AM
Wtf, this would not justify Forlan. Thus i have come to the conclusion we are getting Forlan and Urriti. I mean there is no way we would traded a possible future core player for a couple year DP player. Or is there?

Laba...DP...Koef...DP...Forlan...DP

Where does Urruti fit in this equation unless I am foggy on how many DP's we can have....

Mark in Ottawa
07-09-2013, 10:42 AM
Press release says "we are bringing in ATTACKING options this transfer window and his playing time would have suffered" or close to that.
^^ This

TFC07
07-09-2013, 10:43 AM
Laba...DP...Koef...DP...Forlan...DP

Where does Urriti fit in this equation unless I am foggy on how many DP's we can have....

Urriti signs a loaded contract where this year he's not DP, but next year his gets DP money?

Ageroo
07-09-2013, 10:44 AM
Urriti signs a loaded contract where this year he's not DP, but next year his gets DP money?

That is the only way I can see....let's hope we have a ton of allocation money to handle that....

Suds
07-09-2013, 10:44 AM
Just want to point out I called this about a month and half ago....People called me crazy.


you're still crazy g:D

Relja
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
I am in shock....especially for allocation money, this does not sit well with me at all.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
"I'm going to make a brash prediction: Silva will be traded."

May 14 I wrote that. I don't know that I like this, but it's clear Silva has not really filled a position on the team.

Leedsoronto
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
We wait with baited breath then !! Could there be a method in the madness <probably not LOL>

Ron Manager
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
If we are bringing in Urruti, that somewhat mitigates the sting of Silva leaving. Silva's not actually that young, being 24 already, so maybe KP and Nelsen have come to the conclusion that this is about the most we'll get from him and they are looking for more. Osorio can play the same role as Silva and he's younger and has done more this season.

This is true. Hopefully creates a little more opportunity for Bekker as well. Silva didn't look any better than Osorio this year. In fact, I have found him pretty frustrating so far.

Jack
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
And let's be honest, Silva has been one of our better attacking players, but our attack is pathetic. Osorio has done more and is younger with more upside. I'm sure Silva will have a solid MLS career, but if we can open a spot for a guy like Urruti (who's 22), then you move Silva. @Ageroo (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/member.php?u=63), we can probably bring in Urruti on some sort of pre-DP deal, where Koev leaves at the end of the season and he gets bumped up. One thing about KP and Leiweke is, they know how to play the MLS roster game.

Ivy
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
Well then... The last piece of the Houston trio has been dealt with.. :(

TFC_Allez
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
In the end...this better be worth it.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 10:47 AM
Osorio totally made Silva expendable. I actually rate Osorio higher than Silva.

Richard
07-09-2013, 10:47 AM
Agreed, we better get something good for Silva though.

Stouffville_RPB
07-09-2013, 10:48 AM
Silva plays Forlan's role...that's what happened....or I am hoping lol...

Don't disagree but surely a player with Silva's talents, potential and salary is worth more than allocation.

To me this means that the Forlan deal is done. You don't trade a player like Silva unless you are sure you have something to replace him with.

Ageroo
07-09-2013, 10:49 AM
We should have traded Silva to DC for DERO....yes I said it......


:leaving:

Suds
07-09-2013, 10:49 AM
And let's be honest, Silva has been one of our better attacking players, but our attack is pathetic. Osorio has done more and is younger with more upside. I'm sure Silva will have a solid MLS career, but if we can open a spot for a guy like Urruti (who's 22), then you move Silva. @Ageroo (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/member.php?u=63), we can probably bring in Urruti on some sort of pre-DP deal, where Koev leaves at the end of the season and he gets bumped up. One thing about KP and Leiweke is, they know how to play the MLS roster game.

Was there not some talk about the MLS introducing some young DP thing to incent teams to go after younger players and not hit their 3 DP's?? Or was that just talk and speculation?

cmonyoureds
07-09-2013, 10:49 AM
"I'm going to make a brash prediction: Silva will be traded."

May 14 I wrote that. I don't know that I like this, but it's clear Silva has not really filled a position on the team.

To be fair, given team history, you're pretty safe with "I'm going to make a brash prediction: *any player ever to wear the red* will be traded." g:D

pekduck
07-09-2013, 10:50 AM
If we are bringing in Urruti, that somewhat mitigates the sting of Silva leaving. Silva's not actually that young, being 24 already, so maybe KP and Nelsen have come to the conclusion that this is about the most we'll get from him and they are looking for more. Osorio can play the same role as Silva and he's younger and has done more this season.

exactly. Osoria is more effective than Silva this season, more upside, cheaper

Nuvinho
07-09-2013, 10:50 AM
Frei....I hope you have your bags packed.

pekduck
07-09-2013, 10:50 AM
We should have traded Silva to DC for DERO....yes I said it......


:leaving:


pitchfork ready to invade the zoo!... (for those who gets it in TM)

Ageroo
07-09-2013, 10:51 AM
@Ageroo (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/member.php?u=63), we can probably bring in Urruti on some sort of pre-DP deal, where Koev leaves at the end of the season and he gets bumped up. One thing about KP and Leiweke is, they know how to play the MLS roster game.

That they do....and they are showing us how it is done. I am thinking the end result will be good. These guys aren't new to the rules.....look at teams they have built. I will wait and see.

Ageroo
07-09-2013, 10:52 AM
Frei....I hope you have your bags packed.

They are magicians if they can get something for him....I love Frei but tough to market him on the limited play now.

Still Kicking
07-09-2013, 10:53 AM
Trouble is that Silva has yet to score in 2013. For a team that has entered the summer transfer window looking for talent and firepower in particular, Silva has had half a season to impress the new leadership with his skills and potential.

ag futbol
07-09-2013, 10:53 AM
I'm not terribly surprised.

People here were a little bit too attached to our own prospect. He's got potential, but hasn't realized it yet. There are lots of players like this in the league, some don't work out or turn out to be as good as expected.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 10:53 AM
To be fair, given team history, you're pretty safe with "I'm going to make a brash prediction: *any player ever to wear the red* will be traded." g:D

That's true :). You could read the tea leaves though. Silva was moved around and Nelsen never really settled on a position for him. They tried him as a second striker, a winger, an attacking midfielder, and a box to box midfielder. He never seemed to excel in any position. He's a bit of a puzzle - don't think anyone doubts that he has quality. But with Osorio coming through, and Payne saying they were in the market for an AM or a creative mid, it was hard to see where he fit.

Nuvinho
07-09-2013, 10:53 AM
some new MLS rule supposedly (they make it up as they go) is that you can sell a young DP back to the league - which means it doesn't count against your cap or something - don't know the full details..

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 10:53 AM
For those of you who are saying that Osorio has made Silva expendable (which I somewhat agree with)...just remember when Silva first made his way on to this team.

How he looked. How much promise he had.

Now he's gone and we're saying he's been passed by a kid who has barely played 5-6 good games strung together. I hope Osorio doesn't have the same fate as Silva in a year or two.

So much for developing players. I thought Silva had the skills needed to be molded in to a viable attacking player in MLS. Maybe he still does. Problem is, we weren't able to bring it out.

When exactly did he stop progressing? LOL

Pint
07-09-2013, 10:54 AM
Wouldn't surprise me if this move was made to get money for a winger. Osorio can play AM and has shown to be at least as good of a prospect as silva to this point.

TFC1154ever
07-09-2013, 10:56 AM
I still think we need upgrade on the LM/RM spots. Does DC have any good players in those positions?

tfcleeds
07-09-2013, 10:56 AM
Sure Forlan and Urruti will make this much easier to accept - I just wish we'd see more evidence of these attacking players incoming before we made these trades, that's all.

pdogg
07-09-2013, 10:57 AM
Don't disagree but surely a player with Silva's talents, potential and salary is worth more than allocation.

To me this means that the Forlan deal is done. You don't trade a player like Silva unless you are sure you have something to replace him with.

Given that we took allocation, it would appear that we didn't want to take on any salary coming back the other way. If we took on a DC player, we'd have to free up the difference in salary somewhere else. It's unfortunate that Silva was the one to go, but we've been dumping salary for the last few weeks - eventually one of the higher paid youngsters was going to get bit.

What puzzles me, is if this is a salary dump, why'd we pick up Thomas?

Richard
07-09-2013, 10:58 AM
Sure Forlan and Urruti will make this much easier to accept - I just wish we'd see more evidence of these attacking players incoming before we made these trades, that's all.

Maybe this is all the evidence we need. You don't trade one of your better attacking players on a team that is lacking in offensive unless you have something waiting to replace him.

Jack
07-09-2013, 10:58 AM
For those of you who are saying that Osorio has made Silva expendable (which I somewhat agree with)...just remember when Silva first made his way on to this team.

How he looked. How much promise he had.

Now he's gone and we're saying he's been passed by a kid who has barely played 5-6 good games strung together. I hope Osorio doesn't have the same fate as Silva in a year or two.

So much for developing players. I thought Silva had the skills needed to be molded in to a viable attacking player in MLS. Maybe he still does. Problem is, we weren't able to bring it out.

When exactly did he stop progressing? LOL
He's 24. That's not that young in soccer years anymore. Maybe he stopped progressing because that's as good as he's going to get (other than experience - I just mean skills).

And the young DP thing is in effect Suds; - it's how we have Laba.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 11:00 AM
For those of you who are saying that Osorio has made Silva expendable (which I somewhat agree with)...just remember when Silva first made his way on to this team.

How he looked. How much promise he had.

Now he's gone and we're saying he's been passed by a kid who has barely played 5-6 good games strung together. I hope Osorio doesn't have the same fate as Silva in a year or two.

So much for developing players. I thought Silva had the skills needed to be molded in to a viable attacking player in MLS. Maybe he still does. Problem is, we weren't able to bring it out.

When exactly did he stop progressing? LOL

At 24 I don't think Silva has much more development. But I agree he has stalled at TFC for whatever reason. He'll probably kick ass in DC.

Richard
07-09-2013, 11:01 AM
The only issue I see is if Silva turns into a Dero, a later bloomer who will really start to play well once he reaches 27,28.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 11:02 AM
He's 24. That's not that young in soccer years anymore. Maybe he stopped progressing because that's as good as he's going to get (other than experience - I just mean skills).

Even if his skill set didn't improve, how do you explain his effectiveness not so long ago?

He may not have gotten better in the last year or so but there's no way he's regressed. At least I don't think he has. We'll see how he does at DCU.

Moving him because we have other options and other players coming in can be justified. Moving him for allocation money is an indicator that he wasn't highly rated to begin with. (unless its a boat load of cash in allocation)

Ron Manager
07-09-2013, 11:02 AM
For those of you who are saying that Osorio has made Silva expendable (which I somewhat agree with)...just remember when Silva first made his way on to this team.

How he looked. How much promise he had.

Now he's gone and we're saying he's been passed by a kid who has barely played 5-6 good games strung together. I hope Osorio doesn't have the same fate as Silva in a year or two.

So much for developing players. I thought Silva had the skills needed to be molded in to a viable attacking player in MLS. Maybe he still does. Problem is, we weren't able to bring it out.

When exactly did he stop progressing? LOL

I think Silva may be another example of a player who wasted his best development years in NCAA. He clearly has talent, but would have been better off developing in a professional environment. NCAA is not the best development route for players adn by the time they are done, some of them have missed the boat a bit.
I wish Silva well and hope he has a great career (except against us) but I don't think he was our long term solution. Hopeflly Osorio works out better over time, but only time will tell.

Phil
07-09-2013, 11:03 AM
I didn't. His play improved a bit recently but I don't see him as a game changer, even in the future. Hopefully besides Forlan this helps score these other 3 or 4 players that are on the radar.

Bingo...he has looked poor all year. They had high hopes, but its not working out. Bekker, Osorio hold more promise and are younger. Not to mention players we may be trying to get.

brad
07-09-2013, 11:03 AM
Sure Forlan and Urruti will make this much easier to accept - I just wish we'd see more evidence of these attacking players incoming before we made these trades, that's all.

Might need to move him first to make it fit under the cap. If we need his salary + the allocation for the new players to come in, he would have to move first.

Jack
07-09-2013, 11:03 AM
The only issue I see is if Silva turns into a Dero, a later bloomer who will really start to play well once he reaches 27,28.
This is a possibility, but even if he has success in 3 or 4 years and we are winning, will it be a problem?

ag futbol
07-09-2013, 11:05 AM
At 24 I don't think Silva has much more development. But I agree he has stalled at TFC for whatever reason. He'll probably kick ass in DC.
Ok, not to say this is the comparison, but devil's advocate here.... Graham Zusi didn't do much his first couple of years in MLS. He broke out in his third year and continued massively improving since then. So it's not like every player stays static in their mid 20s. Lot of guys in this league are late bloomers since NCAA isn't usually developing players the way me might like. Anyway, if they think he's going to improve, they should understand what his mentality is, what he's all about, etc... Maybe they don't think he's got the mental makeup to make the most of his talents? But I wouldn't rule out him getting better.

That being said, for every Graham Zusi, there were probably 10-12 Chad Barretts, who wore the potential tag for wayyy too long and never amounted to anything.

Jack
07-09-2013, 11:07 AM
Even if his skill set didn't improve, how do you explain his effectiveness not so long ago?

He may not have gotten better in the last year or so but there's no way he's regressed. At least I don't think he has. We'll see how he does at DCU.
He's had some good moments, but really there are not very many players on our team who can lay claim to being very effective this season.


Moving him because we have other options and other players coming in can be justified. Moving him for allocation money is an indicator that he wasn't highly rated to begin with. (unless its a boat load of cash in allocation)

I'm not sure if that's an accurate assessment. Moving him for allocation might mean we have better players coming in and need that money for them, rather than trading for someone off of DC's shitty roster.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 11:07 AM
For those of you who are saying that Osorio has made Silva expendable (which I somewhat agree with)...just remember when Silva first made his way on to this team.

How he looked. How much promise he had.

Now he's gone and we're saying he's been passed by a kid who has barely played 5-6 good games strung together. I hope Osorio doesn't have the same fate as Silva in a year or two.

So much for developing players. I thought Silva had the skills needed to be molded in to a viable attacking player in MLS. Maybe he still does. Problem is, we weren't able to bring it out.

When exactly did he stop progressing? LOL

He only really progressed when Mariner was here. Maybe we should have kept Mariner and then Silva would have thrived.

PopePouri
07-09-2013, 11:09 AM
Maybe we should have kept Mariner

http://1.media.todaysbigthing.cvcdn.com/97/76/2ec520676c53b91a11177e6f49cf3cd3.gif

tfcmanu
07-09-2013, 11:10 AM
http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4188/transfer-zone/2013/07/09/4105557/dc-united-acquires-luis-silva-from-toronto-fc

Canary10
07-09-2013, 11:10 AM
"Ok, not to say this is the comparison, but devil's advocate here.... Graham Zusi didn't do much his first couple of years in MLS. He broke out in his third year and continued massively improving since then. So it's not like every player stays static in their mid 20s. Lot of guys in this league are late bloomers since NCAA isn't usually developing players the way me might like. Anyway, if they think he's going to improve, they should understand what his mentality is, what he's all about, etc... Maybe they don't think he's got the mental makeup to make the most of his talents? But I wouldn't rule out him getting better.

That being said, for every Graham Zusi, there were probably 10-12 Chad Barretts, who wore the potential tag for wayyy too long and never amounted to anything."

Yeah, that's entirely possible. He's looked good enough at times to potentially be that player. He needs more of a backbone for that to happen. He really fades out out games. I like him, but objectively I can see why they made this move.

Redcoe15
07-09-2013, 11:11 AM
*sigh*

There'd better be more cards delt here.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 11:12 AM
Thinking about it more....I just wonder why they couldn't find ways to use him.

If Forlan and Urruti are coming I'd think that the playing style is going to morph in to something that would have catered to Silva's game.

I mean who plays where?

Urruti up top with Koev?

Forlan in the hole behind them?

Where does that leave Osorio?

Does Reggie fucking Lambe still go out there with these guys? LOL I mean he's no winger. Darrell Russell? LOL

Why not try a pairing of Laba and one of the offensive guys (Silva/Osorio) as deep lying mids. One as a destroyer and the other as the Regista. Link up with Forlan.

Who knows? LOL

Phil
07-09-2013, 11:12 AM
As for Frei, all the teams that were interested in him went out and got keepers. He is stuck until his contract runs out.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 11:14 AM
Apparently Frei and Koevermans aren't in training. Koef may be hurt again (I think Ensco was right on his observations from the last game).

T-boy
07-09-2013, 11:15 AM
Wow, this is intriguing!

I agree with most that Osorio's form and younger age does make Silva a trade-able asset. But still, this is a bold move from TFC!

tfcleeds
07-09-2013, 11:16 AM
Might need to move him first to make it fit under the cap. If we need his salary + the allocation for the new players to come in, he would have to move first.Yeah, that's true, I wasn't factoring that into the equation. He has not looked good this year, but I still had high hopes for him.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 11:17 AM
For sure this is bold but Payne and Nelsen promised big action during this summer window and with the shitty MLS salary cap any big moves would involve a certain amount of sacrifice.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 11:19 AM
Important thought; why is Lambe still here?

ag futbol
07-09-2013, 11:20 AM
As for Frei, all the teams that were interested in him went out and got keepers. He is stuck until his contract runs out.
I'd like to know why we couldn't possibly swing a deal with vancouver.

They badly needed a keeper and had Omar Salgado and Mattocks as surplus. Both would have been a good fit for Toronto.

Couchy81
07-09-2013, 11:21 AM
I'm just wondering why the team still rates Hall and Lambe.

Red I
07-09-2013, 11:22 AM
Wow, this is intriguing!

I agree with most that Osorio's form and younger age does make Silva a trade-able asset. But still, this is a bold move from TFC!

This has to mean there is someone either younger with more upside or someone older with better skills coming down the pipes... but yeah, very balsy move to trade a pretty highly regarded player; alot of pundits seem to agree about his skills, but yeah, he's kinda hit a wall here; i think there wasn't alot of consensus as to where he should play in Nelsen's setup...

right now, i'm not liking this move, but it all depends what those Garber-bucks will be used for...

ag futbol
07-09-2013, 11:23 AM
I'm just wondering why the team still rates Hall and Lambe.
I only have a problem with Hall starting, not so much being on the team. Think he's exactly the type of player you'd want to come off the bench.

Lambe we can only assume his contract was guaranteed by short pants, because otherwise his continued existence defies logic.

PopePouri
07-09-2013, 11:23 AM
I hate trades. Hate it so much.

Red I
07-09-2013, 11:25 AM
I hate trades. Hate it so much.

.. a trade for imaginary money makes it so much worse...

jloome
07-09-2013, 11:25 AM
Even if his skill set didn't improve, how do you explain his effectiveness not so long ago?


What effectiveness not so long ago?

He's got ball skills. His work rate is suspect and he's never found a position. He had about three consecutive games playing upfront last year when he was good.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 11:25 AM
I only have a problem with Hall starting, not so much being on the team. Think he's exactly the type of player you'd want to come off the bench.

Lambe we can only assume his contract was guaranteed by short pants, because otherwise his continued existence defies logic.
Wasn't a big fan of him off the bench last match. Rather have Bekker off the bench or even Russell if he sticks around. Lambe is shite.

Phil
07-09-2013, 11:25 AM
I'd like to know why we couldn't possibly swing a deal with vancouver.

They badly needed a keeper and had Omar Salgado and Mattocks as surplus. Both would have been a good fit for Toronto.

They tried but tough to do with his contract and injury status.

As for Koev....injurted. I heard last night. Not sure how serious.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 11:26 AM
.. a trade for imaginary money makes it so much worse...

But it probably won't when they use that allocation to pay down Urruti's contract so he doesn't count as a DP this season.

T-boy
07-09-2013, 11:28 AM
I only have a problem with Hall starting, not so much being on the team. Think he's exactly the type of player you'd want to come off the bench.

Lambe we can only assume his contract was guaranteed by short pants, because otherwise his continued existence defies logic.

I don't mind Hall, even as a starter. He's having a pretty good season overall.

But Lambe, especially being an international, I'm really not sure why you would keep him? You are right, he must have a guarantee on his contract, otherwise it makes no sense.

tfcleeds
07-09-2013, 11:28 AM
Important thought; why is Lambe still here?One of the great unsolved mysteries of our time.

mowe
07-09-2013, 11:30 AM
Wow I'm pissed. I was a huge fan of Silva and thought he should be part of the team for years to come. We better have gotten a boatload of allocation.

Side note: I wonder if Payne would've needed to do this trade if the rumoured Califf and Frei for allocation would've gone through.

Payne and Nelson better live up to their word this transfer window. They've been hyping it up the whole year and now they've just added more pressure to get some contributors.

Oblio2
07-09-2013, 11:31 AM
Use the allocation money to sign...ANDY WELSH (4 England)
:)

jabbronies
07-09-2013, 11:31 AM
fuck is right. Silva is easily one of the best players in this team. Someone that could be part of the backbone for years to come. A long term solution. If they made this trade just to fit Forlan (position wise and money wise) I'm going to be pissed.

This wreaks of the Sam Cronin situation - just not as malicious, but equally dumb.

Red I
07-09-2013, 11:32 AM
An article from Kurt Larson written about an interview with De Klerk seemed to intimate that Bob and Aron wanted Silva, Avila, and Plata to be the skilled young players to build their vision around... it's funny how all of them have now been traded away. Nelsen obviously has a completely different vision for this team... but a core of Laba, Osorio and maybe one more young player may very well be a much better group to build from!

I think if Bob and Aron had a Payne and co. to get him better core players, it wouldn't have been such a doomed experiment.

Gazza
07-09-2013, 11:33 AM
We should have traded Silva to DC for DERO....yes I said it......


:leaving:

This needs its own thread. And said thread should end up being 1000 pages long!

Gazza
07-09-2013, 11:34 AM
I guess no one wanted to give up allocation money for Reggie Lambe or Weideman.

Red I
07-09-2013, 11:37 AM
But it probably won't when they use that allocation to pay down Urruti's contract so he doesn't count as a DP this season.

I really hope that's what happens - a younger, exciting attacking player in Silva's place will assuage our fears, i think

OgtheDim
07-09-2013, 11:42 AM
Hey, buy some tickets to see Roma...............


BTW, we just sold off our draft pick from last year for bar credits.


Roma...Roma....get your Roma tickets....going fast.

bones
07-09-2013, 11:45 AM
Hey, buy some tickets to see Roma...............


BTW, we just sold off our draft pick from last year for bar credits.


Roma...Roma....get your Roma tickets....going fast.


May be the first time to see Forlan play for TFC too.
..or not..
Tickets going fast.

Stouffville_RPB
07-09-2013, 11:48 AM
I guess no one wanted to give up allocation money for Reggie Lambe or Weideman.

If you were a GM would you?

I wouldn't (and I through Braun into that list too)

ensco
07-09-2013, 11:50 AM
I would be interested to see the record of MLS teams built via dumping top draft picks for virtually nothing.

Here's how one team did with that (this was written last year)

http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/9/4/3277041/keeping-draft-picks-the-team-that-could-have-been

Oldtimer
07-09-2013, 11:53 AM
In the grander scheme of things, we tend to over-rate our better players because the rest of the squad is soo poor. Sliva was a potentially decent player (no way is he going to be another DeRo), but no GM in the league will rate him as more than a utility player.... a better than average one but still a utility player.

Oldtimer
07-09-2013, 11:54 AM
I would be interested to see the record of MLS teams built via dumping top draft picks for virtually nothing.

Here's how one team did with that (this was written last year)

http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/9/4/3277041/keeping-draft-picks-the-team-that-could-have-been

Yeah, Mo was a lousy manager, and Mr. Shorty pants was actually worse than Mo.

ManUtd4ever
07-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Although Silva's contributions to the team have left a lot to be desired, I'm not a fan of this move if it's to accommodate a high priced veteran DP signing. If it's to make room for a young attacking midfielder with a stronger pedigree, then it can be justified.

I'll withhold judgement until the rest of the dominos start to fall.

ProfessorDamage
07-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Silva was a fine player and it scared me when I saw the announcement. But the rationale is pretty solid - they're dishing him because they're bringing in better talent which would have killed his playing time. I'm willing to accept that. Now, rinse and repeat with Lambe.

And this is more than just about Forlan, btw. They wouldn't have dealt a "young core" player without replacing him with some youth, probably Urruti if he does join us.

With all these things said, I continue to believe that Danny K will see extremely limited minutes this season before riding off into the sunset at the end of it.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 11:56 AM
What effectiveness not so long ago?

He's got ball skills. His work rate is suspect and he's never found a position. He had about three consecutive games playing upfront last year when he was good.

He managed 5 goals and 5 assists last year. His only year in the league. That's not too bad if you ask me. Not to say it's terrible that he was moved but I also don't think he's a bust all of a sudden.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 11:59 AM
In the grander scheme of things, we tend to over-rate our better players because the rest of the squad is soo poor. Sliva was a potentially decent player (no way is he going to be another DeRo), but no GM in the league will rate him as more than a utility player.... a better than average one but still a utility player.
This is true. We see certain players through rose colored glasses and it tends to cloud our judgment. When all the chips fall on this one we'll get a better idea. If we end up with Forlan, Urruti, and possibly another attacking player (or two) then there'd be no room for Silva anyway. There is no point holding on to him if we acquire better players than him (which I would hope we are doing) and he will never develop or become anything by being a bench option.

OgtheDim
07-09-2013, 11:59 AM
We need a farm team. Young players need to play competitive matches.

Until that gets sorted for next year, guys like Bekker, Agboss, Roberts, Morgan and Welshmen are not going to be getting as good as they could.

ensco
07-09-2013, 12:00 PM
Yeah, Mo was a lousy manager, and Mr. Shorty pants was actually worse than Mo.

Not to restart ancient debates, but that is not at all the conclusion I would draw.

The conclusion I would draw is that better organizations never (or almost never) make the kind of move TFC did today. On principle. You don't burn the furniture to heat the house.

Oblio2
07-09-2013, 12:01 PM
Not to restart ancient debates, but that is not at all the conclusion I would draw.

The conclusion I would draw is that better organizations never (or almost never) make the kind of move TFC did today. On principle. You don't burn the furniture to heat the house.

Unless you have a really crap house and just "so-so" furniture

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 12:02 PM
In the grander scheme of things, we tend to over-rate our better players because the rest of the squad is soo poor. Sliva was a potentially decent player (no way is he going to be another DeRo), but no GM in the league will rate him as more than a utility player.... a better than average one but still a utility player.

Agreed but who's to say we're not doing that right now with Osorio? (not that I don't like him. I really do)

I think it's safer to say that we don't build our team around our "best" players (meaning the ones with potential and young enough to build around for the future).

Instead we "build" with no end goal in mind. I'm not completely bent out of shape about Silva being traded but I just worry that we gave up on him too early (for nothing in return) and that it has become a trend for this club.

I'm also afraid that a guy like Osorio will fall victim to the same fate.

TFC07
07-09-2013, 12:02 PM
What if this move was made to bring in better younger player like Urriti?

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 12:04 PM
This is true. We see certain players through rose colored glasses and it tends to cloud our judgment. When all the chips fall on this one we'll get a better idea. If we end up with Forlan, Urruti, and possibly another attacking player (or two) then there'd be no room for Silva anyway. There is no point holding on to him if we acquire better players than him (which I would hope we are doing) and he will never develop or become anything by being a bench option.

True but only if one of the "possible other attacking players or two" are considered domestics. We need to have a few of those kinds of players around and I thought Silva was one of our better ones.

Mr. Bigby
07-09-2013, 12:04 PM
Since Payne and Nelsen came on board, I've generally supported their moves, but this one has whacked me upside the head! Young, with tons of potential, and the team was generally better with Silva in than when he was out. There had BETTER be some huge outcome soon, or my seats will be available to the (un)clamoring masses next year.

Oldtimer
07-09-2013, 12:05 PM
Agreed but who's to say we're not doing that right now with Osorio? (not that I don't like him. I really do)

I think it's safer to say that we don't build our team around our "best" players (meaning the ones with potential and young enough to build around for the future).

Instead we "build" with no end goal in mind. I'm not completely bent out of shape about Silva being traded but I just worry that we gave up on him too early (for nothing in return) and that it has become a trend for this club.

I'm also afraid that a guy like Osorio will fall victim to the same fate.

I think you are talking history, not the present. Payne has an excellent record at building winning teams. Under a salary cap you usually go through some suffering when you acquire new players... regardless of the sport.
Now whether our unproven coach can make good use of the assets... we'll have to wait and see.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 12:06 PM
Not to restart ancient debates, but that is not at all the conclusion I would draw.

The conclusion I would draw is that better organizations never (or almost never) make the kind of move TFC did today. On principle. You don't burn the furniture to heat the house.
This would be true if it was only for Forlan. If there are other younger, better options available for our long term future, that this move helps with, then it all makes sense.

T-boy
07-09-2013, 12:07 PM
Since Payne and Nelsen came on board, I've generally supported their moves, but this one has whacked me upside the head! Young, with tons of potential, and the team was generally better with Silva in than when he was out. There had BETTER be some huge outcome soon, or my seats will be available to the (un)clamoring masses next year.

I think we need a tiny bit of patience right now. I don't think we can assume that trading Silva was done without some major forethought! We just have to wait for the other parts of this to unfurl. I think there are going to be a few trades and moves coming up, this is just one part of it.

barticusz
07-09-2013, 12:08 PM
I think you are talking history, not the present. Payne has an excellent record at building winning teams. Under a salary cap you usually go through some suffering when you acquire new players... regardless of the sport.
Now whether our unproven coach can make good use of the assets... we'll have to wait and see.

This.

My initial shock is gone. I do feel that Payne has a plan in place and he will have to make some hard decisions to get there. Watching Laba over the past month or so I can see that they indeed have a vision. He, in my opinion has been the best signing this team has made in it's history.

We need to wait to see what else will happen. If we dont' sign anyone during the transfer period then of course this is a fail, but let's wait it out. We're not run by Mariner any more.

Oldtimer
07-09-2013, 12:09 PM
True but only if one of the "possible other attacking players or two" are considered domestics. We need to have a few of those kinds of players around and I thought Silva was one of our better ones.

We tend to over-rate our domestics, too.

Red I
07-09-2013, 12:13 PM
Not to restart ancient debates, but that is not at all the conclusion I would draw.

The conclusion I would draw is that better organizations never (or almost never) make the kind of move TFC did today. On principle. You don't burn the furniture to heat the house.

In most North American sports models, where the best talent young talent is acquired in a draft, then yes - in the context of global football, younger more skilled players can sometimes be acquired through transfers, so never is too strong a word... i doubt this was an easy decision, but don't think they are simply heating the house, possibly upgrading to some hand-made Amish stuff

Carts
07-09-2013, 12:13 PM
My fear - they trade Silva b/c this 'attacker' is said to be 99.9% coming in...

We all know how those usually end up for us...

F*cksakes!

Nuvinho
07-09-2013, 12:14 PM
So we won't see new players for another 1 or 2 games......great!!! Bush League.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 12:14 PM
We tend to over-rate our domestics, too.


So is Osorio good or not? LOL

The things being said about Osorio this year while he's been good sound exactly like the things said about Silva last year.

That's what worries me.

I mean, if all of our domestics and Intl's are over rated then what future do we have? Who is a linchpin for the future? Laba and?

Initial B
07-09-2013, 12:21 PM
My fear - they trade Silva b/c this 'attacker' is said to be 99.9% coming in...

We all know how those usually end up for us...
But this is Lieweke and Payne we're talking about here - two proven MLS executives with a track record of building teams. The trade today makes no sense unless they have, with 100% certainty, something coming in the next 48 hours. I can't believe the current brain-trust would have made a mistake like that. Let's wait until the weekend before we start rushing to judgement.

<edit: I'm very interested to see what kind of line-up Nelsen will trot out this weekend...>

pekduck
07-09-2013, 12:21 PM
I'd like to know why we couldn't possibly swing a deal with vancouver.

They badly needed a keeper and had Omar Salgado and Mattocks as surplus. Both would have been a good fit for Toronto.

Van's keeper just earned POTW and cheaper than Frei by a lot

Oldtimer
07-09-2013, 12:24 PM
But this is Lieweke and Payne we're talking about here - two proven MLS executives with a track record of building teams. The trade today makes no sense unless they have, with 100% certainty, something coming in the next 48 hours. I can't believe the current brain-trust would have made a mistake like that. Let's wait until the weekend before we start rushing to judgement.

<edit: I'm very interested to see what kind of line-up Nelsen will trot out this weekend...>

This is what gets me about some of the comments. You'd think we still had Anselmi running things.

Corpand
07-09-2013, 12:24 PM
This is not the last move of the day. DCU gave up a nice chunk of change + more. The twitterverse will be going nuts late tonight.
Silva spent an extra year in college, this gave him an advantage at the combine and got him picked early. Fantastic player but is not made of the physicality of the way we play. DCU NEED a player like him, especially now. This feels strange, I was a real believer in him. He has fantastic vision and comfortable on the ball. Just lacked pace (stamina issue?) I'm sure he will find a way to succeed in a different formation. DC better play him and play him often.
I do believe Osorio has a much bigger ceiling than Silva and he is a standout while starting MLS games. Teams have had time to figure him out and he still manages to play well.

Believe me, exciting times ahead. This is a bold but necessary move.

Mr. Bigby
07-09-2013, 12:27 PM
I think we need a tiny bit of patience right now. I don't think we can assume that trading Silva was done without some major forethought! We just have to wait for the other parts of this to unfurl. I think there are going to be a few trades and moves coming up, this is just one part of it.

I understand this, and I'm willing to be convinced. I'm just saying that this is a relatively big and ballsy move out that had better be the precursor to an even better long term move IN, or my long term emotional investment in TFC will be well into a negative balance!

habstfc
07-09-2013, 12:29 PM
Osorio has speed which goes a long way, that's something Silva doesn't have. I rate Osorio higher than Silva for that fact alone.

Marc"2L"
07-09-2013, 12:41 PM
This is what gets me about some of the comments. You'd think we still had Anselmi running things.

after all the contradictions that have come from KP in the last 6 months?

no more old guys from England, after these last 2 or 3, no 2, oh sorry just the one.
Transfer and speculation of players, see above.
Top defender of the last 10 year he'll be the best in the league , etc.

NolbertoS
07-09-2013, 12:44 PM
Wow, Didn't expect Silva to be traded. TFC is getting blown up piece by piece. Payne, Nelson and Lieweke are ushering a new age of TFC. If Urutti and Forlan are coming than I see the Reds doing greater over the short term. Long term though, where are the younger prospects going to get playing time if they ride the pine on the bench??

brad
07-09-2013, 12:46 PM
I'll wait for the dust to settle before I pass judgement on this. If this was purely a cap dump/allocation grab to make from for Forlan, I won't be too happy. But this could very easily also be about collecting allocation to to strengthen the team in other areas - or upgrade Silva with another, better/more promising young player.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 12:46 PM
I mean, if all of our domestics and Intl's are over rated then what future do we have? Who is a linchpin for the future? Laba and?

He didn't say all domestics are overrated, just that we do tend to do that. Look at Avila. He was a domestic and a lot of people thought he was the second coming. He is a depth player on a decent team at best.

For the future I'd say the plan is that Laba, Osorio, Bekker, Urruti (?), Henry, and Agboss will develop with the team and grow. Add to that any other players who may be coming in and there is your base. Much like every other MLS team, you sprinkle in some experienced MLSers (Convey) and some experienced players with quality and you have a proper team.

jloome
07-09-2013, 12:47 PM
He managed 5 goals and 5 assists last year. His only year in the league. That's not too bad if you ask me. Not to say it's terrible that he was moved but I also don't think he's a bust all of a sudden.

You can't base the decision purely on stats. I think he has a lot of talent (look at the setup on O'Dea's run through the middle for example) and could be a starter in this league if he played with enough intensity. But as with Avila, I think there's a particular mindset they're looking for and they don't see it in him. I don't either. I can't say I've ever see Silva play with the sort of urgency I see from Osorio or Laba.

That's what they want, I think. Players who treat every minute on the pitch like it's important. The areas in which he seemed most deficient to me -- ball watching, off the ball movement, general intensity -- are sort of key to having a winning team in this league.

Did anyone see Avila's first game for Chivas after coming back from his trial in Guadalajara? After a few weeks in Mexico, he looked like a different player. Intensity, pace, movement away from the ball. I'm not saying it'll stick and I'm not saying it couldn't be coached to Silva ... but maybe, as with Ashtone Morgan, they're not seeing it. I don't see it in either player. I see the requisite skill, but not the step-up mentality. I used to say the same about Doneil Henry, but since he started playing next to Caldwell and O'Dea he's been a beast this season at times.

One of the reasons guys like Convey get a bad rep in this league is because they call out their own teammates. Magee did it in Chicago on Saturday, too. Same message. Workrate, workrate, workrate.

I dunno. Maybe there's more to it, but to me that was his principle issue.

jloome
07-09-2013, 12:49 PM
Van's keeper just earned POTW and cheaper than Frei by a lot

And they didn't need a keeper anyway. Knighton has done great, Cannon is behind him and they just signed the danish U21 keeper who's expected to be the number one.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 12:50 PM
Wow, Didn't expect Silva to be traded. TFC is getting blown up piece by piece. Payne, Nelson and Lieweke are ushering a new age of TFC. If Urutti and Forlan are coming than I see the Reds doing greater over the short term. Long term though, where are the younger prospects going to get playing time if they ride the pine on the bench??
Urruti is 22. Younger than Silva. He should qualify as a long term option. Forlan, although he is good, only plays one position on the field at a time so it's not like he'd be forcing many of our young players to sit. Plus some of these potential signings may be just as young as Silva, but better.

Ivy
07-09-2013, 01:01 PM
Lets be realistic, Silva was not sold for nothing. Something is in the works, so ill wait before passing judgement. Silva was also a highlight last year because the team sucked balls... The black cat running across the field was more interesting than the entire season.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 01:04 PM
He didn't say all domestics are overrated, just that we do tend to do that. Look at Avila. He was a domestic and a lot of people thought he was the second coming. He is a depth player on a decent team at best.

For the future I'd say the plan is that Laba, Osorio, Bekker, Urruti (?), Henry, and Agboss will develop with the team and grow. Add to that any other players who may be coming in and there is your base. Much like every other MLS team, you sprinkle in some experienced MLSers (Convey) and some experienced players with quality and you have a proper team.

Bekker doesn't play. No way to say that he's part of our future. Especially considering the fact that his primary position is where Laba plays right now. I HOPE he's good enough to be part of the future but he hasn't done enough to say he is, for me.

Urruti isn't on our team yet.

Osorio is where Silva was at this time last year. Hence my worries about pulling the pin on Silva. Don't wanna see it happen to Osorio too.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 01:07 PM
Bekker doesn't play. No way to say that he's part of our future. Especially considering the fact that his primary position is where Laba plays right now. I HOPE he's good enough to be part of the future but he hasn't done enough to say he is, for me.

Urruti isn't on our team yet.

Osorio is where Silva was at this time last year. Hence my worries about pulling the pin on Silva. Don't wanna see it happen to Osorio too.
Osorio is ahead of where Silva was at this time last season. He didn't improve until Mariner took over.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 01:08 PM
You can't base the decision purely on stats. I think he has a lot of talent (look at the setup on O'Dea's run through the middle for example) and could be a starter in this league if he played with enough intensity. But as with Avila, I think there's a particular mindset they're looking for and they don't see it in him. I don't either. I can't say I've ever see Silva play with the sort of urgency I see from Osorio or Laba.

That's what they want, I think. Players who treat every minute on the pitch like it's important. The areas in which he seemed most deficient to me -- ball watching, off the ball movement, general intensity -- are sort of key to having a winning team in this league.

Did anyone see Avila's first game for Chivas after coming back from his trial in Guadalajara? After a few weeks in Mexico, he looked like a different player. Intensity, pace, movement away from the ball. I'm not saying it'll stick and I'm not saying it couldn't be coached to Silva ... but maybe, as with Ashtone Morgan, they're not seeing it. I don't see it in either player. I see the requisite skill, but not the step-up mentality. I used to say the same about Doneil Henry, but since he started playing next to Caldwell and O'Dea he's been a beast this season at times.

One of the reasons guys like Convey get a bad rep in this league is because they call out their own teammates. Magee did it in Chicago on Saturday, too. Same message. Workrate, workrate, workrate.

I dunno. Maybe there's more to it, but to me that was his principle issue.

I get the work rate thing but to sell a player like Silva because of that seems premature.

Again....we value heart and work rate over actual skill. We need players with both. And when we find players with only one side of that equation we tend to stick with the ones like Convey and not like Silva.

Can't the "step up mentality" be something that a coaching staff fosters?

Maybe there was no need for him because half the time he's watching balls soar over his head. Who knows?

What happens if/when he continues to blossom at DCU?

BTW..I think Convey is very average. Below average in a lot of games.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 01:09 PM
Lets be realistic, Silva was not sold for nothing. Something is in the works, so ill wait before passing judgement. Silva was also a highlight last year because the team sucked balls... The black cat running across the field was more interesting than the entire season.

Okay...then what does any performance this year count as? Do we not suck balls? Does that diminish Osorio's play this year?

TFC07
07-09-2013, 01:11 PM
Osorio is 21 years old only. He still has good 2-3 years left to develop. Let's compare Osorio to Silva when Osorio turns 24. lol

Section 117
07-09-2013, 01:11 PM
Can we all just wait for the other shoes to drop before we freak out about trading Silva.

He is a decent player, but let's not forget he is 24 he is who he is, at the moment it's not as if we just traded away Messi or an absolute game breaker. He will probably end up being a career MLS player nothing great just adequate. Kind of like Chad Barrett

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 01:13 PM
Osorio is ahead of where Silva was at this time last season. He didn't improve until Mariner took over.

He didn't score until then but he wasn't bad all year. He was in and out of games all season which is normal for first year players.

Phil
07-09-2013, 01:13 PM
Can we all just wait for the other shoes to drop before we freak out about trading Silva.

He is a decent player, but let's not forget he is 24 he is who he is, at the moment it's not as if we just traded away Messi or an absolute game breaker. He will probably end up being a career MLS player nothing great just adequate. Kind of like Chad Barrett

Cool heads will prevail. Just don't look at twitter right now....LOL

pekduck
07-09-2013, 01:14 PM
Can we all just wait for the other shoes to drop before we freak out about trading Silva.

He is a decent player, but let's not forget he is 24 he is who he is, at the moment it's not as if we just traded away Messi or an absolute game breaker. He will probably end up being a career MLS player nothing great just adequate. Kind of like Chad Barrett

why do you always have to be reasonable and sensible =)

lobo
07-09-2013, 01:29 PM
I'm not terribly surprised.

People here were a little bit too attached to our own prospect. He's got potential, but hasn't realized it yet. There are lots of players like this in the league, some don't work out or turn out to be as good as expected.

true and fair enough ... although certainly would have preferred if it was weirdman or lambe or hall that got traded.

best of luck silva.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 01:36 PM
true and fair enough ... although certainly would have preferred if it was weirdman or lambe or hall that got traded.

best of luck silva.

Unfortunately, Silva is the only guy on this team with any trade value.

Funny, Mariner said last year at a town hall he would have taken Nick De Leon instead of Silva if it were up to him. Now they're both on the same team.

Phil
07-09-2013, 01:38 PM
Well I expect the next couple of weeks should be interesting. Sounds like this move starts it, but there may be enough happening that we won't really know until its all done.

lobo
07-09-2013, 01:39 PM
My fear - they trade Silva b/c this 'attacker' is said to be 99.9% coming in...

We all know how those usually end up for us...

F*cksakes!

long term injury!

Section 117
07-09-2013, 01:43 PM
Well I expect the next couple of weeks should be interesting. Sounds like this move starts it, but there may be enough happening that we won't really know until its all done.


There have never been truer words spoken on this site. Guys and girls just sit back and enjoy the ride. Within in the next couple of weeks this team will look closer to what they (Payne & Nelson) invisioned. Unfortunately, it will probaby be too late to make any kind of run, but we should be a lot more exciting an attacking team going forward

Marc"2L"
07-09-2013, 01:46 PM
why do you always have to be reasonable and sensible =)

something something all the logical people are long gone.

If you're still here it's not because you've come to the conclusion that TFC is a fantastic way to spend your time, energy, and money.

mowe
07-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Lets be realistic, Silva was not sold for nothing. Something is in the works, so ill wait before passing judgement. Silva was also a highlight last year because the team sucked balls... The black cat running across the field was more interesting than the entire season.

Truth.

The next couple weeks will be fun.

Marc"2L"
07-09-2013, 01:48 PM
There have never been truer words spoken on this site. Guys and girls just sit back and enjoy the ride. Within in the next couple of weeks this team will look closer to what they (Payne & Nelson) invisioned. Unfortunately, it will probaby be too late to make any kind of run, but we should be a lot more exciting an attacking team going forward

The problem, is that some people have been sitting, for a while. And then they decided to just not show up to the games anymore.

ensco
07-09-2013, 01:48 PM
Can we all just wait for the other shoes to drop before we freak out about trading Silva.

He is a decent player, but let's not forget he is 24 he is who he is, at the moment it's not as if we just traded away Messi or an absolute game breaker. He will probably end up being a career MLS player nothing great just adequate. Kind of like Chad Barrett

Not as much fun as assuming the worst.

(But seriously, this doesn't feel good, we didn't bring in Payne so that they could copy the uniquely worst elements of the Mo/Preki era.)

pekduck
07-09-2013, 01:50 PM
Not as much fun as assuming the worst.

(But seriously, this doesn't feel good, we didn't bring in Payne so that they could copy the uniquely worst elements of the Mo/Preki era.)

Copy the worst elements from the Dark Ages? So far it looks like the dawn of Renaissance to me...

I'll reserve my judgement until end of transfer window.

ensco
07-09-2013, 01:59 PM
I think if we'd actually "traded" Silva, nobody would have any issue with waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It's the vague sense I have, born from hard earned experience that we all have, that this was no "trade", but instead reflects poor cap management. That a valuable piece was given away bcause it was literally the only thing we could do to accomplish what Payne/Nelsen wants. With the requisite dose of demonizing a very interesting player that happens to have had the bad luck to have been found by the previous regime.

I get that this isn't 2010, Payne is no Preki, Silva is probably not Cronin, and our reward for this is not going to be Mista, so I agree, let's wait.

But this doesn't reek of foresight or intelligent roster/cap mgmt, I'll tell you that. A chunk of the cap was blown on loans for Bostock/Ephraim/Earnshaw. Everyone thought those were free looks. Very few of us were critical of those (I was one). How do those moves look now?

Red I
07-09-2013, 02:03 PM
The problem, is that some people have been sitting, for a while. And then they decided to just not show up to the games anymore.

Ya, but it's league rules, salary caps, and soccer politics more likely than anything else holding up... this window stuff is always at a snail's pace, but not for lack of effort on the FO's part. If years of futility get transformed in a single transfer window, I will gladly wait 30 days for that to happen. I hope others will to

EDIT: Ok, maybe not gladly...

pekduck
07-09-2013, 02:04 PM
I think if we'd actually "traded" Silva, nobody would have any issue with waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It's the vague sense I have, born from hard earned experience that we all have, that this was no "trade", but instead reflects poor cap management. That a valuable piece was given away bcause it was literally the only thing we could do to accomplish what Payne/Nelsen wants. With the requisite dose of demonizing a very interesting player that happens to have had the bad luck to have been found by the previous regime.

I get that this isn't 2010, Payne is no Preki, Silva is probably not Cronin, and our reward for this is not going to be Mista, so I agree, let's wait.

But this doesn't reek of foresight or intelligent roster/cap mgmt, I'll tell you that.

Direct trade will require something of similar value. What's the point of trading Silva for similar value in a player swap within MLS. I see it as cap relief + additional mystic allocation money for "Import". Payne and Nelson were handed a steaming pile of crap of a cap situation. They've done well to clean it up as much as possible, started with trades in draft for allocation money and netting two Canadian kids.

It doesn't reek shortsightedness or bad roster/cap management, by current regime, I'll tell you that. =P

Wait and see.

ensco
07-09-2013, 02:06 PM
It doesn't reek shortsightedness or bad roster/cap management, I'll tell you that. =P



Take a look at my updated post...

pekduck
07-09-2013, 02:08 PM
Take a look at my updated post...

noted, but for some reason, i thought it was next to free look that is the cap impact has expiration. had it been full signing, we'd still be on the book even if we trade/waive after july 1st.

Marc"2L"
07-09-2013, 02:12 PM
Ensco is pretty much getting at what I'm feeling.

Its not that this is a bad move, it's a bad move in context when you read about how it happened and why. It's happened before, to expect it to go differently would sort of be the definition of insanity, but it's not the exact same so....

ensco
07-09-2013, 02:13 PM
noted, but for some reason, i thought it was next to free look that is the cap impact has expiration. had it been full signing, we'd still be on the book even if we trade/waive after july 1st.



There is a reason why MLS teams almost never do loans. The three of them probably cost $300-400K for the half season, even though they weren't signed.

They did the loans. Fine. My point is, you can't do everything. But Payne appears to be trying to do everything by selling the future. First on draft day, now this. (The Bocanegra deal was smart btw, the only example of what he should be trying to do imho).

The idea of giving away young unproven talent making virtually nothing, for allocation, is the worst. effing. thing. ever. Nobody does that. For a good reason.

I feel like the following ticker should run at the bottom of the TFC website:

win now win now win now mortgage the future mortgage the future mortgage the future

(oh by the way I reserve the right to forget I ever said any of the above if I really like what Payne/Nelsen do here, and would ask all of your forbearance in this forgetfulness, should this scenario arise.)

TFC07
07-09-2013, 02:19 PM
But Silva isn't a young player anymore. You guys are acting like we traded away second coming of Messi with your comments.

You guys need to realize there's better younger talent out there including some of younger players in our team (Osorio and Laba) who have higher ceiling than Silva.

Right now, this team is very young with no veteran quality players at all. Having couple of veteran players leading this young club is what we need right now. Player like Forlan is what we need on the field and off the field right now.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 02:19 PM
Maybe it's me but I just don't see how Silva is all of a sudden the answer to all problems in the future. Yeah, he could go on to be a Cronin or he go on to be a White. One good stretch on a really shite team under the guidance of a bad manager is nothing to go by. If he were tearing it up this year it'd be different but he has mostly looked piss poor out there all year.

And if we are speaking of the unknown future then I would say Urruti > Silva.

pekduck
07-09-2013, 02:20 PM
There is a reason why MLS teams almost never do loans. The three of them probably cost $300-400K for the half season, even though they weren't signed.

They did the loans. Fine. My point is, you can't do everything. But Payne appears to be trying to do everything by selling the future. First on draft day, now this. (The Bocanegra deal was smart btw, the only example of what he should be trying to do imho).

The idea of giving away young unproven talent making virtually nothing, for allocation, is the worst. effing. thing. ever. Nobody does that. For a good reason.

I feel like the following ticker should run at the bottom of the TFC website:

win now win now win now mortgage the future mortgage the future mortgage the future

(oh by the way I reserve the right to forget I ever said any of the above if I really like what Payne/Nelsen do here, and would ask all of your forbearance in this forgetfulness, should this scenario arise.)


I think we have been shell shocked into pessimism by previous regime and MLSE pre Payne/Leiweke era. In the past, that's the case, mortgage future for win now. That's what's got us into this sad state of affairs.

Way too much bad taste.

Costing 300-400K for the half season is the price to pay to not cost 300-400K for the entire season. That's like paying insurance to have flexibility to either sign them or get someone else that may work.

I still rate the current management miles better on how they handle cap and roster.

It depends on who they get with these allocation, still have to find out after transfer window is over to judge.

EDIT: just to add, this is not NHL where draft picks means way more... I'd take tangible improvements piece by piece than overrate young players (which Silva is not) and hold on to them and see their value diminish and become complete sunk cost

Section 117
07-09-2013, 02:20 PM
Not as much fun as assuming the worst.

(But seriously, this doesn't feel good, we didn't bring in Payne so that they could copy the uniquely worst elements of the Mo/Preki era.)

The FO is night and day difference from those days, it is a lot more professional with the exception of Earl (I need to find out his secret, he screwed up time after time and yet still has a job) The previous management set ups prior to Payne ariving were the most dysfunctional I have ever seen or heard about. The back stabbing, undermining and utter lies told by the majority of the FO (not dutch by the way) was incredible. I for one am happy to see that it has been gutted and hope that this transfer window is finally the begining of the New TFC, one which we can be proud of on and off the pitch.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 02:22 PM
Can we all just wait for the other shoes to drop before we freak out about trading Silva.

He is a decent player, but let's not forget he is 24 he is who he is, at the moment it's not as if we just traded away Messi or an absolute game breaker. He will probably end up being a career MLS player nothing great just adequate. Kind of like Chad Barrett


I'm not freaking out about it. I'm just concerned about the "type" of player we've given up on. Lambe, Russell, Hall, Braun, Brockie, Ecks, O'Dea all remain.

I'll be happy to see the reinforcements...especially if they are who we think they are. I'd just like to see us try and work with players who's main asset is technical ability, vision and touch on the ball.

It's not the fact that they're making trades that worries me. It's the player they traded.

Nuvinho
07-09-2013, 02:23 PM
The FO is night and day difference from those days, it is a lot more professional with the exception of Earl (I need to find out his secret, he screwed up time after time and yet still has a job) The previous management set ups prior to Payne ariving were the most dysfunctional I have ever seen or heard about. The back stabbing, undermining and utter lies told by the majority of the FO (not dutch by the way) was incredible. I for one am happy to see that it has been gutted and hope that this transfer window is finally the begining of the New TFC, one which we can be proud of on and off the pitch.

I am not upset about the trading of Silva, just that they don't have guys lined up to bring in before the next 2 games - RN's comments about being thin for the next 1 or 2 games.

ensco
07-09-2013, 02:23 PM
But Silva isn't a young player anymore. You guys are acting like we traded away second coming of Messi with your comments.


Did I miss something? Did he change his year of birth since we drafted him?

He was projected by all pre the 2012 draft to go 3rd, 4th or 5th. Only 18 months ago. His age was reflected in that view.

ensco
07-09-2013, 02:25 PM
The FO is night and day difference from those days, it is a lot more professional with the exception of Earl (I need to find out his secret, he screwed up time after time and yet still has a job) The previous management set ups prior to Payne ariving were the most dysfunctional I have ever seen or heard about. The back stabbing, undermining and utter lies told by the majority of the FO (not dutch by the way) was incredible. I for one am happy to see that it has been gutted and hope that this transfer window is finally the begining of the New TFC, one which we can be proud of on and off the pitch.

I stand corrected. The dumping of Cronin to make room for Mista is nowhere near the top of the list of "uniquely bad practices" of prior TFC managements! g:D

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 02:27 PM
Did I miss something? Did he change his year of birth since we drafted him?

He was projected by all pre the 2012 draft to go 3rd, 4th or 5th. Only 18 months ago. His age was reflected in that view.

True but at this stage in his development you can find younger internationals from other leagues that will be light years ahead of Silva right now. I figure that is what the plan is. Now if they end up getting Urruti, Forlan, and say Alex Lopez this summer then I will have forgotten that we ever had some scrub named Silva on our squad.

TFC07
07-09-2013, 02:28 PM
Did I miss something? Did he change his year of birth since we drafted him?

He was projected by all pre the 2012 draft to go 3rd, 4th or 5th. Only 18 months ago. His age was reflected in that view.

Yeah, MLS draft is where greatest soccer players are coming from.

What a great measuring stick there to use. :rolleyes:

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 02:34 PM
I think most would agree that, money aside, you can get better, younger players from South/Central America than you can from the draft. I hope that's the plan here.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 02:35 PM
True but at this stage in his development you can find younger internationals from other leagues that will be light years ahead of Silva right now. I figure that is what the plan is. Now if they end up getting Urruti, Forlan, and say Alex Lopez this summer then I will have forgotten that we ever had some scrub named Silva on our squad.

I'd love to see those guys too but it doesn't change the fact that we can't just fill our roster with young internationals. We HAVE to have some domestics. And my argument is why not try and use the domestics we have that have some skill, instead of the Convey's and Halls of the league?


Yeah, MLS draft is where greatest soccer players are coming from.

What a great measuring stick there to use. :rolleyes:

Nobody is saying the greatest players come from the draft but we need domestics. Plain and simple. We traded away a domestic player that actually showed some skill and vision and are likely to replace him with a couple of internationals while leaving behind complete turd players. LOL

And another irritating thing is that some people are shitting on the player Silva was now that he's gone. Yes..he's up and down but most MLS players are. Without him our captain doesn't score his first goal for the club last week.

ensco
07-09-2013, 02:35 PM
Yeah, MLS draft is where greatest soccer players are coming from.

What a great measuring stick there to use. :rolleyes:

This comment here? If I had the time I'd dig up 10 just like it from the "Cronin traded" thread in 2010.

It's hit and miss. About half the guys in the top 10 turn into something valuable. Anyways, I think Silva has shown enough that he should have been worth more than an allocation. The problem is the timing. Allocation is the scarce commodity in July, for wealthier teams.

Section 117
07-09-2013, 02:35 PM
I am not upset about the trading of Silva, just that they don't have guys lined up to bring in before the next 2 games - RN's comments about being thin for the next 1 or 2 games.

Unfortunately, somethings don't ended up going exactly as planned, it is not their fault for that. I deal with South American business all the time and it is a pain in the ass you think everything is done and at the last minute they want more money or some other concessions.

Phil
07-09-2013, 02:36 PM
The FO is night and day difference from those days, it is a lot more professional with the exception of Earl (I need to find out his secret, he screwed up time after time and yet still has a job) The previous management set ups prior to Payne ariving were the most dysfunctional I have ever seen or heard about. The back stabbing, undermining and utter lies told by the majority of the FO (not dutch by the way) was incredible. I for one am happy to see that it has been gutted and hope that this transfer window is finally the begining of the New TFC, one which we can be proud of on and off the pitch.

Truer words have not been spoken. I don't even want to think about what went on in the past. Still a ton of room for improvement right now, but I do feel there is structure and consultation going on with the moves.

Section 117
07-09-2013, 02:38 PM
I stand corrected. The dumping of Cronin to make room for Mista is nowhere near the top of the list of "uniquely bad practices" of prior TFC managements! g:D

That is probably the worst trade ever made by this team... But that was all on Preki that cunt and the red headed drunk for listening to him

One had nothing to do with the other.

Mo set this team down the path that it has been on and only now we finally have people who know what they are doing

TFC07
07-09-2013, 02:38 PM
Nobody is saying the greatest players come from the draft but we need domestics. Plain and simple. We traded away a domestic player that actually showed some skill and vision and are likely to replace him with a couple of internationals while leaving behind complete turd players. LOL

There's another ways to acquire skilled domestic players (academy, trades, signings). NCAA soccer is the last place to look for technical players

ag futbol
07-09-2013, 02:39 PM
I think most would agree that, money aside, you can get better, younger players from South/Central America than you can from the draft. I hope that's the plan here.
I don't disagree with this at all, and I am not the biggest fan of Silva.

That being said, we need a plan to get more domestic players. Without enough quality domestics we are going to hit a plateau and have problems reaching beyond it. I really hope they don't take the partnership route with a USL team and end up going with a full blown farm team. With less and less players coming through the draft and more onus on academies, this should be an easy decision to make. But I've heard them talking partnership, far more often than I would like them to.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 02:39 PM
There's another ways to acquire skilled domestic players (academy, trades, signings). NCAA soccer is the last place to look for technical players

Exactly...so when you find one there maybe it's a good idea to hold on to him. LOL

barticusz
07-09-2013, 02:44 PM
Exactly...so when you find one there maybe it's a good idea to hold on to him. LOL

This isn't your standard NA league. A draft just helps to fill your depth and sometimes you get lucky with your pick. To think that Silva was a bonafide star is ridiculous but now that he's gone all of a sudden he was something more. We can acquire much more technical, speedy, skillful, and youthful players through transfers from abroad. I'd rather have those guys than NCAA bred players.

TFC will obviously sign someone in his place so lets not dwell on this until we see who is replacement is.

pppperkins
07-09-2013, 02:44 PM
Piti the fool who underestimates Leiweke and Payne. We are on a path to salvation.

TFC07
07-09-2013, 02:44 PM
This comment here? If I had the time I'd dig up 10 just like it from the "Cronin traded" thread in 2010.

It's hit and miss. About half the guys in the top 10 turn into something valuable. Anyways, I think Silva has shown enough that he should have been worth more than an allocation. The problem is the timing. Allocation is the scarce commodity in July, for wealthier teams.

How many superstar players in this league come from draft? Not too many. That's my point here! Silva isn't that good enough to have a whine fest on here.

Only in MLS that people get excited over drafting 22-23 year college "star" Plus, we got younger players in academy and first team with higher ceiling than Silva.

Phil
07-09-2013, 02:44 PM
That is probably the worst trade ever made by this team... But that was all on Preki that cunt and the red headed drunk for listening to him

That move had nothing to do with Mista and everything to do with ego and a ground war.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 02:45 PM
I'd love to see those guys too but it doesn't change the fact that we can't just fill our roster with young internationals. We HAVE to have some domestics. And my argument is why not try and use the domestics we have that have some skill, instead of the Convey's and Halls of the league?

We have Hall because he is cheap and the same goes with the rest of the players mentioned in this thread as being our domestic hacks. Convey I wouldn't be surprised to see on his way out at $200K. If we needed a good amount of allocation dollars to say, pay down Urruti's contract to non-DP level, would you expect to get that by trading Hall or Lambe? Really? You need to make sacrifices to get what you want. Right now, we need to grow and develop a some type of winning culture. Not for 'making ML$E mo money!!!11!!!' but to build a team that good domestic players would actually want to come to. You aren't gonna get that by tossing out the youth squad for the next couple years and hoping(!) that these players become a Cronin or something similar. Look at LA. That's how they did it.

Section 117
07-09-2013, 02:45 PM
I'm not freaking out about it. I'm just concerned about the "type" of player we've given up on. Lambe, Russell, Hall, Braun, Brockie, Ecks, O'Dea all remain.

I'll be happy to see the reinforcements...especially if they are who we think they are. I'd just like to see us try and work with players who's main asset is technical ability, vision and touch on the ball.

It's not the fact that they're making trades that worries me. It's the player they traded.

Let's say for argument sakes that TFC goes and signs 3 quality players, good enough to start on almost any team would that make up for trading a player who is slightly above avergae IMO. Also, these potential players will have all of the skills that you are looking for. Hence my comment nothing can be judge or commented on until the balance of the moves are made.

Of the list of players 2 are grossly over paid by management that is no longer here and it is not as if we can just go and rip up their contracts. The balance of players are depth at best with no value to be traded and we need bodies so why get rid of them and still absorb their cap hit? This not like any other league as league MLS doesn't want teams to hoard talent on their bench as it removes the parity in the league. The only way to circumvent this is by developing your own talent which is going to take years and even then we will be lucky to get a handful of extremely talented players.

TFC07
07-09-2013, 02:47 PM
This isn't your standard NA league. A draft just helps to fill your depth and sometimes you get lucky with your pick. To think that Silva was a bonafide star is ridiculous but now that he's gone all of a sudden he was something more. We can acquire much more technical, speedy, skillful, and youthful players through transfers from abroad. I'd rather have those guys than NCAA bred players.

TFC will obviously sign someone in his place so lets not dwell on this until we see who is replacement is.

Thank you. Don't forget local talent as well. Examples: Osorio (21 year old who played in Uruguay before joining TFC) and Henry (TFC academy product and only 20 years old). Of course bigger name young players like Laba and Urriti makes it easier to not rely on NCAA draft.

Section 117
07-09-2013, 02:47 PM
Truer words have not been spoken. I don't even want to think about what went on in the past. Still a ton of room for improvement right now, but I do feel there is structure and consultation going on with the moves.

Phil I miss these discussions, the boards the last 2 days are like the old days...

I am definetely going to swing by Joes before a game for pint and catch up it has been a long time.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 02:48 PM
And the bottom line is that Silva really isn't as good as a lot of people think he is.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 02:55 PM
The bottom line question people should ask themselves is whether Silva is the starting attacking midfielder on this team right now. Given the number of times I've heard on this board that we need an attacking midfielder, I don't see how that can be answered yes. If he's not, then we still need and AM, and Silva will be on the bench. With Osorio there, younger and arguably as good, should Silva be kept?

Personally, I think there is a strong footballing reason for this trade. I like Silva, and I really think he'll succeed elsewhere unfortunately. But I can totally see the rationale behind this.

JuliquE
07-09-2013, 02:57 PM
I agree with those saying we need to have quality domestics.. but, in principle, if we sign players of Laba's ilk to make up our core, then it shouldn't be long before these players can apply for their PR status and count as domestic. For certain key positions, this could prove crucial; we can afford the step down in quality in some areas of the pitch.

This will undoubtedly take time, but I can see this being a long-term strategy with the current regime.. especially with the mentality of some American players about plying their trade in Canada; the quality of life we can offer should have us as an ideal destination, if maybe not the most glamorous. Might even have a few of these wind up playing for the CMNT -- what a difference it could have made to have had someone competent at the helm from day one, huh?

Red I
07-09-2013, 02:57 PM
I think if we'd actually "traded" Silva, nobody would have any issue with waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It's the vague sense I have, born from hard earned experience that we all have, that this was no "trade", but instead reflects poor cap management. That a valuable piece was given away bcause it was literally the only thing we could do to accomplish what Payne/Nelsen wants. With the requisite dose of demonizing a very interesting player that happens to have had the bad luck to have been found by the previous regime.

I get that this isn't 2010, Payne is no Preki, Silva is probably not Cronin, and our reward for this is not going to be Mista, so I agree, let's wait.

But this doesn't reek of foresight or intelligent roster/cap mgmt, I'll tell you that. A chunk of the cap was blown on loans for Bostock/Ephraim/Earnshaw. Everyone thought those were free looks. Very few of us were critical of those (I was one). How do those moves look now?

Ya, those were some expensive looks. Be nice for Toronto to start next year fresh with these trial salaries off the books, with the back end looking pretty solid, albeit expensive, and maybe this window stabalizes other positions too. I think after next year's pre-season transfer window, we should be team ready to contend

Ajax TFC
07-09-2013, 03:02 PM
but a core of Laba, Osorio and maybe one more young player may very well be a much better group to build from!
There's no reason why it couldn't have been a core of Laba, Osorio, Silva, Avila, Plata, and maybe one other player. A good core takes more than 2-3 players, and Avila, Plata, and now Silva were all pretty much dumped because the manager didn't like them.

the thing is, it takes time to get young core players, and we seem far to willing to just ditch them once we do get them in favour of some expensive old international. Guys like Osorio, Avila and Silva might seem to just fall out of the sky and therefore be non-valuable, but the key is that they don't fall out of the sky that often. Each team gets just two draft picks a year, and it seems that with the decreasing quality you're lucky if one of them turns out into a core player. I also wouldn't expect a lot of Osorios to show up on our doorstep either. He's essentially the first (maybe second if you want to include Morgan) academy product who's been effective. Laba came at a large price. And it doesn't look like we have any assets that could be traded for another Avila (good domestic player)

Phil
07-09-2013, 03:06 PM
Phil I miss these discussions, the boards the last 2 days are like the old days...

I am definetely going to swing by Joes before a game for pint and catch up it has been a long time.

My final hyjack is to say, I am totally thinking the same thing. Its time to have a pint and laugh about some of the shit we have seen.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 03:08 PM
And it doesn't look like we have any assets that could be traded for another Avila (good domestic player)

Problem with domestics like Avila is they play in spots where an impact player should play. Avila is not an impact player unless 6 goals in 109 matches is now a good strike rate. And he costs $125K.

RSL a couple years back had a decently assembled roster. A few impact forwards, solid internationals, and a decent domestic affordable back line and keeper. We need that affordable back line now.

v00d00daddy
07-09-2013, 03:10 PM
Let's say for argument sakes that TFC goes and signs 3 quality players, good enough to start on almost any team would that make up for trading a player who is slightly above avergae IMO. Also, these potential players will have all of the skills that you are looking for. Hence my comment nothing can be judge or commented on until the balance of the moves are made.

Of the list of players 2 are grossly over paid by management that is no longer here and it is not as if we can just go and rip up their contracts. The balance of players are depth at best with no value to be traded and we need bodies so why get rid of them and still absorb their cap hit? This not like any other league as league MLS doesn't want teams to hoard talent on their bench as it removes the parity in the league. The only way to circumvent this is by developing your own talent which is going to take years and even then we will be lucky to get a handful of extremely talented players.

I'm all for them signing the people that have been reported. And I totally agree that its time for us to wait and see. I just hate seeing guys like Lambe and Convey on a regular basis, as we ship out a guy like Silva.

If it was the only way to free up some money to use on new signings then so be it. I can live with that.

Red I
07-09-2013, 03:23 PM
There's no reason why it couldn't have been a core of Laba, Osorio, Silva, Avila, Plata, and maybe one other player. A good core takes more than 2-3 players, and Avila, Plata, and now Silva were all pretty much dumped because the manager didn't like them.

That is a good point. I think having Silva, Osorio and Avila on the same team creates a problem of where they should go though, similar to the problem of Silva getting minutes with Nelsen's team; I think there are issues as to where players fit when it comes to the shape of the team, and the coaches vision for it. Plata was a total head-scratcher, though, and Cronin too. they would have fit nicely in this squad.

Jack
07-09-2013, 03:26 PM
Osorio is ahead of where Silva was at this time last season. He didn't improve until Mariner took over.


Osorio is 21 years old only. He still has good 2-3 years left to develop. Let's compare Osorio to Silva when Osorio turns 24. lol


But Silva isn't a young player anymore. You guys are acting like we traded away second coming of Messi with your comments.

You guys need to realize there's better younger talent out there including some of younger players in our team (Osorio and Laba) who have higher ceiling than Silva.

Right now, this team is very young with no veteran quality players at all. Having couple of veteran players leading this young club is what we need right now. Player like Forlan is what we need on the field and off the field right now.


Maybe it's me but I just don't see how Silva is all of a sudden the answer to all problems in the future. Yeah, he could go on to be a Cronin or he go on to be a White. One good stretch on a really shite team under the guidance of a bad manager is nothing to go by. If he were tearing it up this year it'd be different but he has mostly looked piss poor out there all year.

And if we are speaking of the unknown future then I would say Urruti > Silva.

Quoting these posts helps me save time typing the same things out.

Jack
07-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Plata was a total head-scratcher, though, and Cronin too. they would have fit nicely in this squad. They were dumped by managers who were both idiots.

NolbertoS
07-09-2013, 03:51 PM
I'm wondering if the TFC players are feeling less job security now. Silva move would surprise most TFC players as he was playing OK and didn't seemed expendable. I wonder who is next to go??

Marc"2L"
07-09-2013, 04:07 PM
I'm worried the effect goes beyond just losing Silva,
Alain Rochat just bolted back to his old club because of the Van - DC trade issue, and has been rather vocal about it.
Now we have a bunch of guys who've never played in MLS, while we try to bring in new ones who have never played in MLS.
They all have agents smarter then they are, who are aware, now more then ever, of what signing a contract with MLS means.

I have a hard time believing our new players are raving about the ability to be shipped away to someplace like DC if they want to come here to settled down and raise a family. This gets back to those new players we're trying to bring in....

then the deals fall through and more people get shipped to rearrange the deck.

Of course DP's are a different story, then again, JDG, Hassli.

OgtheDim
07-09-2013, 04:10 PM
And to think, just 4 days ago he was squiring some lass to her prom for Sick Kids.

DoubleUp
07-09-2013, 04:25 PM
This is true. Silva is no longer a prospect given his age, and plus Osorio play makes Silva expendable.
They dont play the same. people that keep alluding to this, dont know what they are talking about.


Only Forlan can fix this for me.


This club is a piece of work.:facepalm:

JayMolly
07-09-2013, 04:31 PM
My final hyjack is to say, I am totally thinking the same thing. Its time to have a pint and laugh about some of the shit we have seen.

We agree Phil.

Time to sit back and see what this trade is going to produce with new addition(s).

But for now we will think back to Silva's introduction to our team in 2012, before almost 50K fans at the Dome where he scored his first goal! For that we have good thoughts!

J&M

TFC07
07-09-2013, 04:39 PM
They dont play the same. people that keep alluding to this, dont know what they are talking about.


Only Forlan can fix this for me.


This club is a piece of work.:facepalm:

How so? Osorio can play middle and plus, Silva hasn't done anything this season to earn his spot (he isn't capable playing other positions like Osorio). So I don't understand why you're so pro-Silva when he hasn't done anything productive this season. Silva fanboys :facepalm:

Jack
07-09-2013, 05:18 PM
They dont play the same. people that keep alluding to this, dont know what they are talking about.


Only Forlan can fix this for me.


This club is a piece of work.:facepalm:
They don't play the same, you're right, but they are both attack-minded midfielders and, if we are bringing in some attacking midfielders, then Osorio seems to have more versatility and upside than Silva. Anyway, this move can only mean we've got better attacking options than Silva on the way, so that is a good thing. He's hardly been burning up the field.

DoubleUp
07-09-2013, 05:22 PM
How so? Osorio can play middle and plus, Silva hasn't done anything this season to earn his spot (he isn't capable playing other positions like Osorio). So I don't understand why you're so pro-Silva when he hasn't done anything productive this season. Silva fanboys :facepalm:

first of all they're characteristics are different. They approach the game differently.

Osario is short passer mainly and doesnt even have close to the same vision.


He can play different positions. Proved that under Winter and Mariner,Maybe if we would had a real coach with real system we would have seen a better Silva.:thumbsup:

comparing them is like, comparing David Beckham to Paul scholes. They are two different midfielders, two different characteristics that make them effective.




Not Silva a fan boy, but if you can't see his potential then that alone speaks for itself, when we still have Lambe muddling about doing fuck all.

This Hoofball club is a joke and a half.

Only a ten fold Improvement can fix this ballyhoo in my eyes.

Enjoy!

I'm done.

HuTor
07-09-2013, 05:23 PM
D.C. United acquires midfielder Luis Silva from Toronto FC




http://www.dcunited.com/news/2013/07/dc-united-acquires-midfielder-luis-silva-from-toronto-fc (http://www.dcunited.com/news/2013/07/dc-united-acquires-midfielder-luis-silva-from-toronto-fc)


Fuck this nonsense move!
I just found out this, have not read any other post except this...

Now on to reading!

But a huge FUCK for this one!!!!!!!!!!!

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 05:30 PM
first of all they're characteristics are different. They approach the game differently.

Osario is short passer mainly and doesnt even have close to the same vision.


He can play different positions. Proved that under Winter and Mariner,Maybe if we would had a real coach with real system we would have seen a better Silva.:thumbsup:

comparing them is like, comparing David Beckham to Paul scholes. They are two different midfielders, two different characteristics that make them effective.




Not Silva a fan boy, but if you can't see his potential then that alone speaks for itself, when we still have Lambe muddling about doing fuck all.

This Hoofball club is a joke and a half.

Only a ten fold Improvement can fix this ballyhoo in my eyes.

Enjoy!

I'm done.

There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to start.

TFC07
07-09-2013, 05:33 PM
first of all they're characteristics are different. They approach the game differently.

Osario is short passer mainly and doesnt even have close to the same vision.


He can play different positions. Proved that under Winter and Mariner,Maybe if we would had a real coach with real system we would have seen a better Silva.:thumbsup:

comparing them is like, comparing David Beckham to Paul scholes. They are two different midfielders, two different characteristics that make them effective.




Not Silva a fan boy, but if you can't see his potential then that alone speaks for itself, when we still have Lambe muddling about doing fuck all.

This Hoofball club is a joke and a half.

Only a ten fold Improvement can fix this ballyhoo in my eyes.

Enjoy!

I'm done.

Silva played his best under Mariner who played hoofball a lot more than current TFC under Nelsen. Silva potential is limited to becoming a good MLS player given he's entering his prime years in his career in a year. He doesn't have much room left to improve compare to Osorio who is only 21 year old who can play multiple midfield positions.

Silva downfall under Nelsen is that Silva isn't most athletic player (Nelsen wants players pressuring up front unlike Mariner who had players sitting back and taking the pressure) and his seems slow in general out there. His vision hasn't resulted in any positive results for the club. Since we're getting (I am assuming) better AM option and Silva isn't capable playing other positions as a starter, this makes Silva tradeable.

Guys like Lambe are hard to move because they're either international players or no one wants to them. So we have to wait end of the season to cut them.

DoubleUp
07-09-2013, 05:34 PM
There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to start.


So dont then!.

Like I said I'm done.

enjoy!.

bones
07-09-2013, 05:46 PM
I think this has less to do with who was better and more to do with someone had to go to get a spot open and some allocation money. On a USA based team, Silva is local so he probably got the most in return allocation wise.

I don't want to get into who's better yadda yadda, it's a move FO needed to make to have the space and $ to bring in who they want. I'm sure they're not done with the dumping...errr trades too by the way.

Shakes McQueen
07-09-2013, 05:57 PM
I'm going to wait and see what else comes down the pipe, because I don't think it makes much sense to judge this move on it's own - trading a decent "prospect" (I use quotes because he was already 24) for allocation is a pretty good sign that this is just a precursor to other things.

It's looking more and more like Forlan is coming, for one. Even the club's refusals to comment, are starting to sound more cute than forceful (i.e. stuff like "we can't comment on players under contract, but boy he'd be nice to have"). I also think people are overvaluing Silva, big time.

You don't trade a player for cap space in the middle of a season, unless you need that space FOR something.

- Scott

Ivy
07-09-2013, 05:57 PM
Wow some strong emotions flying around.
The way I see it is if Bostock wasn't good enough to make the squad, neither is Silva (and I was in no way a fan of Bostock... But somebody at Tottenham was)...
DCU got 500k for Rochat, so I can only assume that they sent most of that money to TFC.

notthesun
07-09-2013, 05:57 PM
This move, as things stand, reeks of "win now" bullshit that I hoped would be gone with Payne at the helm.

I want to see Payne bring in young guys to replace Silva. That's really the only way I'll be ok with this. By all means get Forlan, but I'm waiting for this core of young starting players that Payne promised to build at the start of the year. Silva was assumed to be part of that core. If he's not, then I expect us to go out and find someone who will be. We've got Laba. Urruti would be a nice start.

lobo
07-09-2013, 06:05 PM
From John Molinaro ...


News of the trade didn’t immediately filter down to several Toronto players, who were more than a little surprised when asked about it by reporters after the team’s Tuesday training session.


“I didn’t even know. That’s typical. We don’t get told (things) around here,” TFC captain Darren O’Dea offered after finding out about the trade from the media.


Eckersley when asked for his thoughts on Silva trade: "I've only just found out now. Where's he been traded to? That's news to me."


the simple things :facepalm:

c'mon TFC, you have the whole team together for training and yet players find out their teammate and friend is gone from reporters?

to me, this is more worrying than the trade itself.

ryan
07-09-2013, 06:06 PM
The more things change....

OgtheDim
07-09-2013, 06:14 PM
I wouldn't assume anybody who was on this team when Payne took over was going to be a nucleus to be built around. Everything I've read has indicated that Payne and Nelsen are surprised at how much some of the players we started with have done.

When it comes to a young nucleus, Payne has invested in Bekker, Agboss, Welshman, Laba and Osorio. Hall, and Morgan have surprised them but not enough to make them starters. Henry really is only starting by default but has surprised them too. Silva surprised them too but was enough of an asset to get something back to bring in somebody better.

BuSaPuNk
07-09-2013, 06:42 PM
From John Molinaro ...



the simple things :facepalm:

c'mon TFC, you have the whole team together for training and yet players find out their teammate and friend is gone from reporters?

to me, this is more worrying than the trade itself.


It happens alot in every sport though. How many time you hear guys at the trade deadline for the NHL say they heard on TSN or Sportsnet. The media moves so fast now a days I'm not surprised at all this happens.

mook-life
07-09-2013, 06:44 PM
Wow some strong emotions flying around.
The way I see it is if Bostock wasn't good enough to make the squad, neither is Silva (and I was in no way a fan of Bostock... But somebody at Tottenham was)...
DCU got 500k for Rochat, so I can only assume that they sent most of that money to TFC.
Ya screw Tottenham

69Chevy396
07-09-2013, 06:58 PM
Just read this trade report. If the Forlan signing collapses and all we get is another schmuck from the English championship I will make my way to the ACC and shit on someones desk.

Gaucho
07-09-2013, 07:02 PM
And the bottom line is that Silva really isn't as good as a lot of people think he is.

Dang, dude, you are a broken record in this thread. You also said Silva has been piss poor all year. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I also have no idea how one can watch him play and say that he has been poor this year. IMO, Silva and Laba are the two best players Toronto has.

If given the chance at DC, he is going to tear it up. And he's reunited with Chris Pontius, so I'm personally thrilled that he escapes Toronto (Toronto fans deserve better, btw) and gets to play alongside another gaucho.

denime
07-09-2013, 07:18 PM
Urriti signs a loaded contract where this year he's not DP, but next year his gets DP money?

LOAN this year,DP next,once Koev is gone.

69Chevy396
07-09-2013, 07:22 PM
Dang, dude, you are a broken record in this thread. You also said Silva has been piss poor all year. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I also have no idea how one can watch him play and say that he has been poor this year. IMO, Silva and Laba are the two best players Toronto has.

If given the chance at DC, he is going to tear it up. And he's reunited with Chris Pontius, so I'm personally thrilled that he escapes Toronto (Toronto fans deserve better, btw) and gets to play alongside another gaucho.
I like him too. It's moves like this which correctly depicts TFC as the worst team in MLS history. Why not move one of the keepers instead?

Suds
07-09-2013, 07:25 PM
I guess I'm not at the extreme of either side of this decision. Liked Silva a lot and not happy to see him go.

But I fully understand that other teams are not interested in our table scraps. We're not going to offload bad contracts or bad players. We're stuck with them until their contracts are done. We are going to have to move some decent players or players with good upside potential to make room for new ones. Silva fits that bill.

Sucks to see him go but he's one of our few players that other teams would be willing to give up some of their allocation or assest for.

69Chevy396
07-09-2013, 07:27 PM
I guess I'm not at the extreme of either side of this decision. Liked Silva a lot and not happy to see him go.

But I fully understand that other teams are not interested in our table scraps. We're not going to offload bad contracts or bad players. We're stuck with them until their contracts are done. We are going to have to move some decent players or players with good upside potential to make room for new ones. Silva fits that bill.

Sucks to see him go but he's one of our few players that other teams would be willing to give up some of their allocation or assest for.
Nobody in the league would have an interest in Frei?

Suds
07-09-2013, 07:29 PM
Nobody in the league would have an interest in Frei?

Sure. As I said, we have a few players I think other teams would jump at - at the right price. Could even still happen. Who knows??

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 07:52 PM
Dang, dude, you are a broken record in this thread. You also said Silva has been piss poor all year. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I also have no idea how one can watch him play and say that he has been poor this year. IMO, Silva and Laba are the two best players Toronto has.

If given the chance at DC, he is going to tear it up. And he's reunited with Chris Pontius, so I'm personally thrilled that he escapes Toronto (Toronto fans deserve better, btw) and gets to play alongside another gaucho.
Osorio has been much better and Silva, minus the past two matches, has been terrible. Poor passes, bad decisions, and far too much indecision for a playmaker. He could be a solid MLSer but it will be as a forward because I don't see him as a real deal AM and he is too slow to play the wing. Besides he was at his best playing as a forward under the hoofball wizardry of Mariner so I think playing forward is where his future is at.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 07:54 PM
Nobody in the league would have an interest in Frei?

I bet not unless we basically ate most of his salary. Even then we'd probably get nothing in return. Unless an injury happens to someone somewhere.

Ivy
07-09-2013, 08:13 PM
Nobody in the league would have an interest in Frei?
I'm gonna confidently say no... Otherwise he'd be long gone.

tfcleeds
07-09-2013, 08:16 PM
Could we please stop moaning at least about players not knowing about the trade until asked about it by media? This stuff happens all the time. Players are generally not privy to transactions before they happen. They are no different than us in this regard.

Ivy
07-09-2013, 08:25 PM
Could we please stop moaning at least about players not knowing about the trade until asked about it by media? This stuff happens all the time. Players are generally not privy to transactions before they happen. They are no different than us in this regard.
Bingo. Half these kids wouldn't be able to stay quiet. Probably another reason why TFC shit keeps getting leaked prematurely.
And am I the only one becomin upset with O'Dea? The guy has been getting on my nerves lately with his emotional outbursts during the games, and the comments he slips in? You make 400,000 dollahs, stfu and do your job (stop giving away goals to the impact).
/donerant.
So Silva eh.... Yah...

gate7
07-09-2013, 08:34 PM
No, I would say that is about bang on



so who subs in for Forlan?

brad
07-09-2013, 08:39 PM
so who subs in for Forlan?

The best finisher of the modern era.

Or another player we bring in. There will be more moves other than Forlan wait for the dust to settle before judging folks.

Phil
07-09-2013, 08:45 PM
The thing that puts a bit of cheese in my shorts is hearing that we may have a tough couple of games to cope with the absence while they finalize these new players.

Its a shame, but I have to console myself with the thought that they went for the deal to get the resources needed to secure the signings.

lobo
07-09-2013, 08:51 PM
Could we please stop moaning at least about players not knowing about the trade until asked about it by media? This stuff happens all the time. Players are generally not privy to transactions before they happen. They are no different than us in this regard.

hey leeds. of course they are not privy prior to a transaction happening, kinda goes without saying -- but the team could have been informed at training prior to the media being involved ... yes it happens this way, but not all the time. most organizations (and teams) will do internal communications before external, nobody wants to be caught unaware by a reporter like that, it reflects poorly on an organization of any nature ... you can almost sense the tone in O'Dea's quote. i posted about it, my opinion, but i don't see a lot of moaning about here, at least not about this aspect of the trade.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 08:55 PM
The thing that puts a bit of cheese in my shorts is hearing that we may have a tough couple of games to cope with the absence while they finalize these new players.

Its a shame, but I have to console myself with the thought that they went for the deal to get the resources needed to secure the signings.
Yeah, it really sucks especially this weekend with our 4 players doing Gold Cup duty already but I've learned that if there be a chance of roster fuckery during international tournaments then it'll most assuredly bite us in the ass. Maybe we can sign Brennan, Lombardo, and Titus to one day contracts.

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 08:57 PM
so who subs in for Forlan?

Sadly, Lambe I guess. Or Braun if Forlan is at forward.

Phil
07-09-2013, 09:03 PM
Yeah, it really sucks especially this weekend with our 4 players doing Gold Cup duty already but I've learned that if there be a chance of roster fuckery during international tournaments then it'll most assuredly bite us in the ass. Maybe we can sign Brennan, Lombardo, and Titus to one day contracts.

Dichio is still looking pretty fit :D

Ultra & Proud
07-09-2013, 09:18 PM
Dichio is still looking pretty fit :D

Forgot about him. Okay then no Lombardo. Keep it all in house.:flare:

Masked Man
07-09-2013, 09:28 PM
Silva was a rookie last year. Giving up on a young player with upside just because he is having a down season isn't very bright. Very typical style of rash management that TFC has used throughout their existence. Could they bring in someone better? sure. They could also bring in someone who is worse...

Gaucho
07-09-2013, 09:40 PM
Osorio has been much better and Silva, minus the past two matches, has been terrible. Poor passes, bad decisions, and far too much indecision for a playmaker. He could be a solid MLSer but it will be as a forward because I don't see him as a real deal AM and he is too slow to play the wing. Besides he was at his best playing as a forward under the hoofball wizardry of Mariner so I think playing forward is where his future is at.

Comments by Nelsen today (bold my emphasis):

“It is really unfortunate,” Nelsen said of the trade following training on Tuesday. “Luis has been so great for Toronto. Since I have been here he has been absolutely fantastic. But it was an opportunity and obviously the money that we get is extremely valuable. It was also an opportunity [for Luis] where D.C. kind of want to build their team around him.”

“A decision like this was not an easy one by any means,” Nelsen added. “There was long time spent thinking and contemplating it. With things that are happening very shortly it was a move we were going to have to make and we wanted to make it a win for the player and for the club. We wish Luis all the best because he is a fantastic man.”

It won't take long for us to see how Silva does in DC as he appears to be very much in DC's plans. And based on the comments, I also assume that TFC knew exactly what they were giving up and further assume they got a good amount for him. Anyway, we'll know soon if he is the "real deal AM" or not. For some reason, you're either unable or unwilling to see his quality. But then again, maybe I'm a blind fanboi. That said, I think this could work out very well for everyone involved.

Canary10
07-09-2013, 09:54 PM
^ Nelsen doesn't really use an AM. He likes two box to box midfielders. One more defensive minded and the other more creative. I think the issue is Silva doesn't really fit the mould of either. He's been played up front instead because Nelsen knew he has talent and wanted to get him on the pitch, but that's not his best position either. If he can play a true AM role I think he'll do better. Just wasn't going to get that at TFC I don't think. Osorio on the other hand can play box to box.

gate7
07-09-2013, 10:10 PM
And the bottom line is that Silva really isn't as good as a lot of people think he is.

how much was Silva getting paid though??? Show him a leader to play with and he will excel.... I saying that, this was a great trade for both Silva and D.C.

ensco
07-09-2013, 10:23 PM
The more I think about this, the more I think this is bad. Really really bad. There had to be another way to get Forlan or whomever in here. Why didn't we just cut Lambe and Hall on June 30, and bring up some kids if we're short bodies?

I think people are being apologists for one of the most boneheaded things in TFC history. Which is saying something.

I am not sure how many people actually are saying "Silva meh he's not that good" ... but just in case it's a lot.....Did you happen the notice the sublime little layoff to O'Dea on the third goal last Wednesday night? Have you ever noticed that the only guys on our team capable of that little play are Silva and Osorio, and that even though his overall game has taken a step back this year, Silva still had 2 or 3 of those plays every game? Did you ever notice that, of the passes either to or from Silva as a professional, 90% have been to or come from Hall, Lambe, Dunfield, and a crippled Frings? ie that he has shown what he's shown while getting virtually no support or service at all?

I think Silva may be in the top 3 or 4 players ever for TFC in terms of natural skill on the ball.

We peed in our pants to stay warm. It works. For a few minutes.

Phil
07-09-2013, 10:29 PM
The more I think about this, the more I think this is bad. Really really bad. There had to be another way to get Forlan or whomever in here. Why didn't we just cut Lambe and Hall on June 30, and bring up some kids if we're short bodies?

I think people are being apologists for one of the most boneheaded things in TFC history. Which is saying something.

I am not sure how many people actually are saying "Silva meh he's not that good" ... but just in case it's a lot.....Did you happen the notice the sublime little layoff to O'Dea on the third goal last Wednesday night? Have you ever noticed that the only guys on our team capable of that little play are Silva and Osorio, and that even though his overall game has taken a step back this year, Silva still had 2 or 3 of those plays every game? Did you ever notice that, of the passes either to or from Silva as a professional, 90% have been to or come from Hall, Lambe, Dunfield, and a crippled Frings? ie that he has shown what he's shown while getting virtually no support or service at all?

I think Silva may be in the top 3 or 4 players ever for TFC in terms of natural skill on the ball.

We peed in our pants to stay warm. It works. For a few minutes.

I just think there is lots to play out and with ownership changes, president then CEO. We have to wait for the other shoe to drop, Silva was a talent but development was a problem from managements point of view. As well, they stated that it was a tough but agreed upon decision. I don't know how many assets we have that can fetch any response in the MLS. Frei hasn't played in 2 years yet some think we can get lots with his record for injury and salary. This is where reality hits the road a bit.

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?33604-I-support-Payne-Nelsen-no-matter-what-happens-tomorrow-or-this-year

Shakes McQueen
07-09-2013, 10:38 PM
The more I think about this, the more I think this is bad. Really really bad. There had to be another way to get Forlan or whomever in here. Why didn't we just cut Lambe and Hall on June 30, and bring up some kids if we're short bodies?

I think people are being apologists for one of the most boneheaded things in TFC history. Which is saying something.

I am not sure how many people actually are saying "Silva meh he's not that good" ... but just in case it's a lot.....Did you happen the notice the sublime little layoff to O'Dea on the third goal last Wednesday night? Have you ever noticed that the only guys on our team capable of that little play are Silva and Osorio, and that even though his overall game has taken a step back this year, Silva still had 2 or 3 of those plays every game? Did you ever notice that, of the passes either to or from Silva as a professional, 90% have been to or come from Hall, Lambe, Dunfield, and a crippled Frings? ie that he has shown what he's shown while getting virtually no support or service at all?

I think Silva may be in the top 3 or 4 players ever for TFC in terms of natural skill on the ball.

We peed in our pants to stay warm. It works. For a few minutes.

As I said - I'll wait to see what happens next, before judging the quality of this move. And even if it is just Forlan - how this trade is viewed will depend on how he plays.

I'd also be interested to know just how much allocation cash Silva bought us, and if it could be enough to allow for more than just one move. Can't make a judgment until I know all of the variables.

- Scott