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jabbronies
06-25-2013, 04:22 PM
For those who don't know, earlier this week TFC asked people on twitter to submit questions to ask Kevin Payne.
Mine was chosen. The answer is what I expected...we have a guy we want, another we wanted we couldn't get, we'll see what happens. whatever. here it is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNvXSRKOiJ0&feature=youtu.be

Oldtimer
06-25-2013, 06:37 PM
Good question... and answer.

DigzTFC!
06-25-2013, 07:43 PM
My guess on the loan from SA that was kind of an add on to the laba deal.



Full name

Pedro Pablo Hernández


Date of birth

October 24, 1986 (age 26)


Place of birth

Tucumán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucum%C3%A1n), Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina)


Height

1.85 m (6 ft 1 in)


Playing position

Attacking Midfielder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder#Attacking)


Club information



Current club

Argentinos Juniors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentinos_Juniors)



He was with DC United but his then current Club Defensor Sporting were unwilling to extend his loan past July and wanted a high transfer fee, so the decision was made to cut ties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTN927vvlE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AejwEN1U3dg

BuSaPuNk
06-25-2013, 07:54 PM
^ are we sure that his current club wouldn't do the same thing to us? I'm all for quality players but only guys we can bring on permantly. If we are just going to get stop gaps were in the same spot next year we are this year.

jazzy
06-25-2013, 10:04 PM
younger is the way....esp at least another young DP, would really excite the future.....and/or a replacement for DK as it seems he's not really happenning at the moment and we have to move on.

moralis
06-27-2013, 10:46 PM
Thought I would add it here: If anyone is up watch Kevin Payne's interview with Asif and the final question was probably the most important where Kevin talked about TFC supporters group and culture. He talked about GA, flares and the incident with one supporter who was ejected and banned for the rest of the season because of flare incident earlier in the league.

It will air again at midnight on GOL TV and 1:00 A.M.

TFC1154ever
06-27-2013, 11:02 PM
^ Yeah, he said he would consider GA. He wants to talk with the Supporter groups and Paul and make a decision. I would be all in for GA.

Jeff s
06-28-2013, 12:18 PM
Sorry I'm a little slow today. What's GA?

Ultra & Proud
06-28-2013, 12:25 PM
General admission in supporter's areas.

Phil
06-28-2013, 01:00 PM
Its up on TFC TV too. Good to see it, no real surprises. We have asked for consistancy in the rules, and in the past have asked for a discussion on General Admission. It will be good to see where it all goes when the meetings start up again. I do know that Kevin Payne has been very involved to this point, but there is a ton of stuff he needed to work on before engaging supporters on this level.

prizby
06-28-2013, 01:52 PM
0 tolerance for flares...is that inside the stadium or now also outside the stadium; outside the stadium never has been a problem in the past.

Phil
06-28-2013, 01:56 PM
0 tolerance for flares...is that inside the stadium or now also outside the stadium; outside the stadium never has been a problem in the past.

That is what his discussion is and clarification is about. As well, I assume it means road games considering DC were very hard on TFC supporters using pyro in the past.

Its arguable from his standpoint that flares are no less dangerous outside the stadium. Who knows where it will go.

TFCAURORA
06-28-2013, 01:58 PM
What would front office do to all the supporters that have seasons in the supporters sections? Would we lose our seats? would they sell season tickets for GA? or would it be a firts come first served with no seat allocated to a ticket?

Too many issues to be discussed for GA.

TFCAURORA
06-28-2013, 02:01 PM
^ in regards to general admission in supporters section

111_DrummerBoy
06-28-2013, 02:20 PM
To add further comment to 'the one fan', his name is Matt. He wasn't the one holding the flare when it happened, he had nothing to do with the flare. He was actually holding the banner. Security picked him out from part of the group because "he looked like a hooligan". In fact they just wanted one and thought Matt looked like weakest. It isn't right! If you're going to hand out year long arbitrary bans, then get the right guy! #JusticeForMatt

prizby
06-28-2013, 02:50 PM
That is what his discussion is and clarification is about. As well, I assume it means road games considering DC were very hard on TFC supporters using pyro in the past.

Its arguable from his standpoint that flares are no less dangerous outside the stadium. Who knows where it will go.

I'd argue that flares are no less dangerous than getting smacked in the face by a soccer ball.

but maybe this can start a discussion; I think there are safe things we can use; like strobe lights

ez2b98tD8iQ

Ultra & Proud
06-28-2013, 03:04 PM
I'd argue that flares are no less dangerous than getting smacked in the face by a soccer ball.

but maybe this can start a discussion; I think there are safe things we can use; like strobe lights

ez2b98tD8iQ

Strobes are probably more hazardous (if any epileptics are in the house) than a flare would ever be.

prizby
06-28-2013, 03:10 PM
What would front office do to all the supporters that have seasons in the supporters sections? Would we lose our seats? would they sell season tickets for GA? or would it be a firts come first served with no seat allocated to a ticket?

Too many issues to be discussed for GA.

FO would probably offer somewhere else at equivalent price at an equivalent type of seat; then you have the choice of participating in a GA section or being somewhere more comfortable/to your liking.

ag futbol
06-28-2013, 03:39 PM
I'd argue that flares are no less dangerous than getting smacked in the face by a soccer ball.
Yeah that's taking it a little far. Under the right controlled conditions they could work, but I can understand why they want to keep them out of the hands of the general public.

Remember: 16 year old kids, think road flair is same as regular flair, throw towards field when gets hot, windy outside, blows back into stands and burns fans leg through her jeans, etc.. ? You know, that whole thing. I will take the soccer ball in the face thanks

prizby
06-28-2013, 04:38 PM
Yeah that's taking it a little far. Under the right controlled conditions they could work, but I can understand why they want to keep them out of the hands of the general public.

Remember: 16 year old kids, think road flair is same as regular flair, throw towards field when gets hot, windy outside, blows back into stands and burns fans leg through her jeans, etc.. ? You know, that whole thing. I will take the soccer ball in the face thanks

better than getting a concussion?

my whole point before though is working with the FO to make it safe, because if there was a middle ground, a safe ground, you wouldn't have ppl doing flares because they would know that there will be a show put on by people, lets say accredited; and at the same time; we'd be more prepared for flares/smoke (ie. having buckets of sand/water/fire extinguisher on hand), and people would be better trained in the handling of such devices; which is much more safer than the random flares that happen about 3 times a year.

maybe im in dream world, but i think there is something that can be worked on (i think strobes could be a good start), but until we are otherwise told differently, we are stuck at the current rules; no flares/smoke/etc, which have to be respected (it isn't worth getting a ban over)

Yagbod
06-28-2013, 07:28 PM
Did someone say pyro!?!

Oh wait, never mind....

Abou Sky
06-28-2013, 08:05 PM
If you guys want Pyro you need to first lobby the city to change the fire code.

Probably about 1500-2000 hours of work if people want to try.

Jeff s
06-28-2013, 10:50 PM
To add further comment to 'the one fan', his name is Matt. He wasn't the one holding the flare when it happened, he had nothing to do with the flare. He was actually holding the banner. Security picked him out from part of the group because "he looked like a hooligan". In fact they just wanted one and thought Matt looked like weakest. It isn't right! If you're going to hand out year long arbitrary bans, then get the right guy! #JusticeForMatt
If I remember the incident correctly, I remember him trowing it AFTER the cops started chasing him. Before that, it was handled responsibly. I think he only threw it out of fear more than anything.

Fort York Redcoat
06-29-2013, 05:44 AM
I'd argue that flares are no less dangerous than getting smacked in the face by a soccer ball.

but maybe this can start a discussion; I think there are safe things we can use; like strobe lights

One instance is random and most times preventable, the other is an absolute there will be people affected negatively. It's most of the appeal vs strobe lights which are less invasive (except to epileptics).

BuSaPuNk
06-29-2013, 08:27 AM
Plus Stobe lights can really only be used for night games. You wouldn't get the same affect during the day. I think the they allowed flares it would be done by only certain people and they would probably have them at BMO for us wouldn't allow us to bring them in. They would have to control it probably to make the Fire Marshall happy.

Using them outside on the way to the building is a task to have the Exibition Place board agree to it is tough. We would have to convince them that we can be trusted and as well probably dispose of them in a propper manner so there is no damage to the Ex grounds.

prizby
06-29-2013, 08:53 AM
If I remember the incident correctly, I remember him trowing it AFTER the cops started chasing him. Before that, it was handled responsibly. I think he only threw it out of fear more than anything.

you are entirely misguided...he never had a flare in his hand...he was carrying a banner and the EX have video evidence of him doing exactly that and even after viewing it with him, they still decided to ban him

Yagbod
06-29-2013, 10:24 PM
If I remember the incident correctly, I remember him trowing it AFTER the cops started chasing him. Before that, it was handled responsibly. I think he only threw it out of fear more than anything.

Yup, I have no idea what you are referring to, but it is not this instance or person. What are you referring to? This was pre-MTL, earlier this year.

111_DrummerBoy
07-02-2013, 08:53 AM
If I remember the incident correctly, I remember him trowing it AFTER the cops started chasing him. Before that, it was handled responsibly. I think he only threw it out of fear more than anything.

I wasn't there, so I can't say 100%. But as far as I know, Matt never actually handled the flair... It was someone else who joined that march. Again I wasn't there but the story was told to me from direct sources.

Wagner
07-02-2013, 09:28 AM
I'd argue that flares are no less dangerous than getting smacked in the face by a soccer ball.

but maybe this can start a discussion; I think there are safe things we can use; like strobe lights



Your line above is likely the stupidest statement ever made on this messageboard.
Congrats.

Flares burn at 3000 degrees.
Prizby, you probably cook your pizza pops and hot pockets at 300ish.
so 10x the heat.

A soccer ball kicked by a pro-athlete, might blacken your eye...break your nose...maybe concussion.

A flare burning at 3000 degrees would melt your eye or permanently deform you.
then mix in the people handing the flares could be drunk or will be around drunk people.

TOBOR !
07-02-2013, 10:00 AM
^ he prolly only meant that the likelihood of getting injured by either is about the same. Still, though. The amount of damage that can be caused by the one is enough of a reason for me to not allow them.

prizby
07-02-2013, 10:49 AM
Your line above is likely the stupidest statement ever made on this messageboard.
Congrats.

Flares burn at 3000 degrees.
Prizby, you probably cook your pizza pops and hot pockets at 300ish.
so 10x the heat.

A soccer ball kicked by a pro-athlete, might blacken your eye...break your nose...maybe concussion.

A flare burning at 3000 degrees would melt your eye or permanently deform you.
then mix in the people handing the flares could be drunk or will be around drunk people.

because someone is clearly going to be poking people in the eye with a flare #smh, but brain injuries are nowhere near as bad:facepalm:

Phil
07-02-2013, 11:02 AM
One drunk idiot with a flare is all it really takes. Look at the amount of serious injury around the world with flares. I get where they are coming from on it. The dialogue has always been around marking an area that we could *safely* do them and the rules surrounding that are extremely confusing. Pyrotechnics licence, Union affiliation and fire code all factor in. Proximity to the crowd all that.

Seems Kevin made a blcak and white statement on it. Hopefully soon Kevin will have this meeting with CNE grounds and let us know the results. Its a confusing mess right now.

Yagbod
07-02-2013, 11:19 AM
^ He reportedly met with them on Thursday, at least regarding the Matt issue. No word yet on any results from the meeting.

Phil
07-02-2013, 11:21 AM
Damn, I talked with him on the weekend but didn't bring it up.

cmonyoureds
07-02-2013, 11:39 AM
^ He reportedly met with them on Thursday, at least regarding the Matt issue. No word yet on any results from the meeting.

OK, I don't know Matt, but if he's willing to entertain this discussion on his behalf, big points for him.

Yagbod
07-02-2013, 01:15 PM
OK, I don't know Matt, but if he's willing to entertain this discussion on his behalf, big points for him.

We will see. There has been hard lobbying to help Matt and KP would not allow any representatives for Matt at the table last Thursday. That is worrisome at the least. The EX security guy is pretty hard nosed and has made some unreasonable/rediculous demands to reduce/remove the ban. That KP only wanted his side of the story at the table is a concern.

I'll sing his praises if the ban is lifted, until then....

ag futbol
07-02-2013, 01:59 PM
because someone is clearly going to be poking people in the eye with a flare #smh, but brain injuries are nowhere near as bad:facepalm:
The comparison is in some ways irrelevant. Nobody wants to take on extra risk that's avoidable and unnecessary to participate in attending a sporting event. You also can't assume that because somebody is exposed to the risk of getting hit in the head with a ball, that they would be okay with potentially being burned as well.

brad
07-02-2013, 02:20 PM
The comparison in some ways irrelevant. Nobody wants to take on extra risk that's avoidable and unnecessary to participate in attending a sporting event. You also can't assume that because somebody is exposed to the risk of getting hit in the head with a ball, that they would be okay with potentially being burned as well.

I get hit with ball, the likely hood of any injury is small - a major one even less so. If I get touched with a 3000 degree flare, there is no way that is anything but a major problem.

Oldtimer
07-02-2013, 02:41 PM
I get hit with ball, the likely hood of any injury is small - a major one even less so. If I get touched with a 3000 degree flare, there is no way that is anything but a major problem.

People have been killed in other countries by flares hitting them in the head.

It doesn't matter whether there are officially certified "safe flare" handlers, once flares are in the stands, there will be doofuses who will imitate and because they are not certified, will throw the flares to avoid getting caught. The one event that injured a woman at a match in 2009 was exactly the situation of some doofuses throwing to avoid detection. Fortunately she will only have a serious scar for life instead of being killed.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2009/04/23/teens_charged_after_woman_burned_at_toronto_fc_gam e.html
(http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2009/04/23/teens_charged_after_woman_burned_at_toronto_fc_gam e.html)

111_DrummerBoy
07-02-2013, 03:23 PM
People have been killed in other countries by flares hitting them in the head.

It doesn't matter whether there are officially certified "safe flare" handlers, once flares are in the stands, there will be doofuses who will imitate and because they are not certified, will throw the flares to avoid getting caught. The one event that injured a woman at a match in 2009 was exactly the situation of some doofuses throwing to avoid detection. Fortunately she will only have a serious scar for life instead of being killed.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2009/04/23/teens_charged_after_woman_burned_at_toronto_fc_gam e.html
(http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2009/04/23/teens_charged_after_woman_burned_at_toronto_fc_gam e.html)

First, I'm not knocking what happened in this article... it really shouldn't have happened.

But that's the very thing... people are going to do it regardless. Why not get everyone involved and have both sides talk about it and maybe each makes concessions... Only have some people able to handle flares, have it only in certain sections, have it monitored and let FO know it's going to happen and when... these are examples of working with them in a positive way. If you simply say no, you're not eliminating the potential problems. If it's controlled, you're not going to have people throwing it cause they're afraid of a $250 ticket.

There is a HUGE difference between the types of flairs used. A road flare burns hotter than a marine flare and is not intended to be held on to, while a marine flare produces orange or red smoke and burns much much cooler as it is intended to be held.

Oldtimer
07-02-2013, 03:41 PM
But that's the very thing... people are going to do it regardless.

I'm not sure of that. It looks like the bannings have had the desired effect. Flares have pretty well disappeared, at least in the stands.

Once you have authorized flare holders, as cool as it looks, you'll get the yahoo wannabes. There are people who I'd trust to be responsible with flares, but the yahoo factor is to much of a problem and is totally uncontrollable.

A much better solution is to work out something with smoke, which actually looks cooler IMO and doesn't have nearly as much potential danger in a crowded BMO. I really like what DC United's supporters have done in that regards. We can develop our own culture and don't have to imitate what's done in other countries.

Yagbod
07-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Damn, I talked with him on the weekend but didn't bring it up.

Update: I just found out the meeting last week was cancelled. No word on a replacement meeting. Which really sucks for Matt. Imagine getting banned for something you didn't do just because you dress funny and were in the neighbourhood. It could have happened to anyone...

The 'Freedom for Matt' campaign continues....

prizby
07-02-2013, 06:15 PM
The comparison is in some ways irrelevant. Nobody wants to take on extra risk that's avoidable and unnecessary to participate in attending a sporting event. You also can't assume that because somebody is exposed to the risk of getting hit in the head with a ball, that they would be okay with potentially being burned as well.

if we are talking about extra risk, then i guess it would be sensible to put netting up around the fans so no errant balls smack them in the head


First, I'm not knocking what happened in this article... it really shouldn't have happened.

But that's the very thing... people are going to do it regardless. Why not get everyone involved and have both sides talk about it and maybe each makes concessions... Only have some people able to handle flares, have it only in certain sections, have it monitored and let FO know it's going to happen and when... these are examples of working with them in a positive way. If you simply say no, you're not eliminating the potential problems. If it's controlled, you're not going to have people throwing it cause they're afraid of a $250 ticket.

There is a HUGE difference between the types of flairs used. A road flare burns hotter than a marine flare and is not intended to be held on to, while a marine flare produces orange or red smoke and burns much much cooler as it is intended to be held.

This

brad
07-02-2013, 09:35 PM
If you guys want Pyro you need to first lobby the city to change the fire code.

Probably about 1500-2000 hours of work if people want to try.


The point about flares was nailed on the first page - quoted here. You want em, start here.

Until then, it's against the fire code (does that make it against the law as well? Not sure). Regardless, go against the fire code, you will get sanctioned. It will come down hard and fast. These guys have the power to shut BMO down for infractions, and they will do it if it happens repeatedly. You think BMO/TFC will let it happen? Kiss your supporters rights and privileges goodbye if any sort of unregulated pyro starts to take hold in the stadium.

Shakes McQueen
07-02-2013, 10:11 PM
But that's the very thing... people are going to do it regardless.

This is never a good argument for why to allow something. You could say the above, in response to virtually any law - "well, some people are going to do it anyway, so fuck it". Some people are gong to rob banks, so we should create a safe, sanctioned way to rob banks, so at least people don't get shot.

Instead of constantly talking about why to allow flares, how about turning the question over and asking: what the fuck is the obsession with having flares?

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
07-02-2013, 10:13 PM
The point about flares was nailed on the first page - quoted here. You want em, start here.

Until then, it's against the fire code (does that make it against the law as well? Not sure). Regardless, go against the fire code, you will get sanctioned. It will come down hard and fast. These guys have the power to shut BMO down for infractions, and they will do it if it happens repeatedly. You think BMO/TFC will let it happen? Kiss your supporters rights and privileges goodbye if any sort of unregulated pyro starts to take hold in the stadium.

This really is the beginning and end of the argument, in terms of the team sanctioning flare use.

- Scott

Abou Sky
07-02-2013, 11:12 PM
The point about flares was nailed on the first page - quoted here. You want em, start here.

Until then, it's against the fire code (does that make it against the law as well? Not sure). Regardless, go against the fire code, you will get sanctioned. It will come down hard and fast. These guys have the power to shut BMO down for infractions, and they will do it if it happens repeatedly. You think BMO/TFC will let it happen? Kiss your supporters rights and privileges goodbye if any sort of unregulated pyro starts to take hold in the stadium.

I do want to note that I am not a fan of flares.

I think the way Portland does it is bang on, safe sanctioned section for smoke.

I do not want people lighting flares & smoke in 112 amongst a crowd.

Again though, it can be changed, I would bet that since 2007 people have likely spent the 2000hrs of work needed to change the firecode and get Pyro sanctioned just whining about it on the boards.

scooter
07-03-2013, 06:50 AM
This is never a good argument for why to allow something. You could say the above, in response to virtually any law - "well, some people are going to do it anyway, so fuck it". Some people are gong to rob banks, so we should create a safe, sanctioned way to rob banks, so at least people don't get shot.

Instead of constantly talking about why to allow flares, how about turning the question over and asking: what the fuck is the obsession with having flares?

- Scott


i agree we have beat this to death forever

come watch the game and support your team

Abou Sky
07-03-2013, 07:18 AM
Out of curiosity, how many people that think Pyro is OK also think that people should be allowed to smoke cigarettes in BMO?

Phil
07-03-2013, 07:49 AM
Seriously take the issue up with TFC and see how far it goes.

Its against the rules and yet there are still idiots bringing them in and handling them in a dangerous way, causing harm, so somehow allowing them will be okay? I don't get the logic here.

Oldtimer
07-03-2013, 08:06 AM
Update: I just found out the meeting last week was cancelled. No word on a replacement meeting. Which really sucks for Matt. Imagine getting banned for something you didn't do just because you dress funny and were in the neighbourhood. It could have happened to anyone...

The 'Freedom for Matt' campaign continues....

How did this all happen with Matt? I wasn't there and have only heard references to his banning. It would suck to be blamed for something just because of being in wrong place wrong time.

Yagbod
07-03-2013, 11:16 AM
How did this all happen with Matt? I wasn't there and have only heard references to his banning. It would suck to be blamed for something just because of being in wrong place wrong time.

In a nutshell: there was a display outside 104 on the street to 'welcome' the Mtl fans on their first visit this year. There was smoke and flares tossed by someone else. Matt was holding up a banner (there is video and pics to prove that). Afterwards a group (not even all the same people, random people held too) was held at the supporters gate with no explanation for 10-15 minutes. They let the group in and then someone ran up to Matt and asked him to come back to the gate for questions. The police and EX security then charged him and banned him. The police dropped the charge within days but EX security wouldn't drop the ban despite meetings and visual evidence showing that he did nothing but hold up a tifo. It seems he was picked at random because they needed to 'get' someone and couldn't figure out who really did it.

How this was different from the post match celebrations by gate 3 that have happened dozens of times is beyond me. In fact, there were flares HELD by people after that match at the gate 3 celebration and none of them were arrested.

Oldtimer
07-03-2013, 02:10 PM
^ that's really unfair. I hope he gets the ban reversed. Common sense should prevail over some sort of misguided "get someone" punishment.

Jeff s
07-07-2013, 01:11 PM
I wasn't there, so I can't say 100%. But as far as I know, Matt never actually handled the flair... It was someone else who joined that march. Again I wasn't there but the story was told to me from direct sources.

naw it was my mistake. I was thinking of a different incident.

The one I was thinking was the incident of those 2 guys in 111 who lit up a flare and eventually threw it. One of them on the field and another I think landed on 113. They were relatively young guys I believe.