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Yohan
05-20-2013, 08:38 AM
Please Nelsen. Don't let Koevermans come anywhere near that turf monster at Foxborough.

And this game is on the Score... ugh. MLS Live ftw

Assuming guys who didn't play will be still injured

--------------Bendik
Richter-Caldwell-Henry-O'Dea
Lambe--Laba--Silva--Convey
--------Brockie--Earnshaw

jloome
05-20-2013, 01:53 PM
Please Nelsen. Don't let Koevermans come anywhere near that turf monster at Foxborough.

And this game is on the Score... ugh. MLS Live ftw

Assuming guys who didn't play will be still injured

--------------Bendik
Richter-Caldwell-Henry-O'Dea
Lambe--Laba--Silva--Convey
--------Brockie--Earnshaw

Apparently Ashtone was good in the reserve game. Might be time to give him another shot, after a few games out.

EDIT: Also, I'd give Bostock a shot in the middle next to Laba. we know laba can play anchor, and central mid is Bostock's natural position. He can string pull; we need some creativity and as talented as Silva is, he's not consistent yet.

Yohan
05-20-2013, 02:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI24Y2RpObs

Watched New England at Houston and NE won 2-0... that's a huge result. Some may think New England should be one of teams TFC can take points from, but it won't be easy. NE is very organized defensively and don't give up goals easily. Their backline benefit from most of their personnel playing together for years, even though there isn't a stud defender among that group. Their midfield is creative, with guys like Rowe, Nguyen and Toja that can make a pass, and they play the game on the ground. Their strikers haven't been good, but they can be very dangerous. However, Diego Fagundez is an exciting kid who plays winger right now, but has 3 goals in 6 games.

Honestly, a draw would be a good result for TFC.

J-Man
05-20-2013, 06:25 PM
How old is that kid that scored the first goal he looks like he is 15.

Yohan
05-20-2013, 06:26 PM
How old is that kid that scored the first goal he looks like he is 15.
Diego Fagundez 18. been a pro since 16. he's going to be a good USMNT striker

DoubleUp
05-20-2013, 08:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI24Y2RpObs

Watched New England at Houston and NE won 2-0... that's a huge result. Some may think New England should be one of teams TFC can take points from, but it won't be easy. NE is very organized defensively and don't give up goals easily. Their backline benefit from most of their personnel playing together for years, even though there isn't a stud defender among that group. Their midfield is creative, with guys like Rowe, Nguyen and Toja that can make a pass, and they play the game on the ground. Their strikers haven't been good, but they can be very dangerous. However, Diego Fagundez is an exciting kid who plays winger right now, but has 3 goals in 6 games.

Honestly, a draw would be a good result for TFC.


New England plays beautiful football. That some of the best link up play I've seen in this league all passes around goal were direct, and on the grass no floated in crosses.


This team is maximizing its talent.!

TOBOR !
05-20-2013, 08:09 PM
Can't we just rename a previous game thread and save ourselves a lot of time and angst?

Initial B
05-20-2013, 08:13 PM
I get the feeling TFC is going to lose 1-0 again...

backbeat
05-20-2013, 10:13 PM
----------------Bendik -----------------
Richter -- Caldwell -- O'Dea – Morgan---
----------- Laba ---- Osorio ----------------
Brockie --------------------------Convey--
------------------ Silva ---------------------
--------------- Earnshaw -----------------

Lennon
05-21-2013, 01:44 AM
If we don't win this one, it's going to be hard to get excited about going to BMO for the game against Philly.

khso11
05-21-2013, 03:25 AM
i think they're going to give us a nice surprise this game, 3-1 TFC?

jpopick
05-21-2013, 06:10 AM
Anyone else going to make the trip for this?

Abou Sky
05-21-2013, 07:28 AM
How long is the drive?

CoachGT
05-21-2013, 07:44 AM
9-10 hours.

Personally, I think it is time to give Frei a start. Frei is a better distributor and, from what I can tell, is more vocal inside the box. He is equal as a shot stopper and is a little better positionally. Not that the keeping has been the issue to date (although I wonder how much Bendik has been instructing/informing his back line), but the change there can't hurt.

Honestly, I think Morgan has seen his last game as a red. He'll stay on the team, but probably won't dress for games much unless there are injuries. Similarly, I think Califf's days are numbered, and if Braun (Barrett) does much more of what he did last Saturday, then save us some grief and move him now. Bekker probably won't see much time for a while, not until we start showing some signs of life.

I think you'll see the central mid pairing as Laba and Hall, as on the weekend. Outside, probably Brockie and Convey, although Brockie and Silva may switch, with Brockie playing up front with Earnshaw. As far as the back line, put the names in a hat and draw them - it can't make that much difference! O'Dea doesn't have the wheels to play at left back so he is better off in the middle. But our options at the backs are poor right now. I wonder whether they may try Hall back there again.

The single most critical piece of this game is keeping a clean sheet. I'll settle for a 0-0 draw, but if they give up one, I think we lose again.

BuSaPuNk
05-21-2013, 07:51 AM
^ Agree with Coach 100%.
We have to keep a clean sheet even if we don't create any attack at all. We need some confidence for our defenders.

It's one or two mistakes that are really costing us games. We're holding more possession almost every game then the opposition but its not relating to goals and results.

And I also believe that we should start Frei. Gives us a little better option with the ball he's a great distributor and vocally commands his back line. Give him one shot with a soild starting 10 in front of him and see what he's got. We don't really have anything to lose. It's a road game on horrible turf. And if we lose well I'm pretty sure we all seen it coming.

T-boy
05-21-2013, 10:08 AM
I thought O'Dea did just fine at LB, better than any of the other players that have made an attempt this season! We really need to go and find a permanent reliable LB though sooner or later.

Yohan
05-21-2013, 10:11 AM
I thought O'Dea did just fine at LB, better than any of the other players that have made an attempt this season! We really need to go and find a permanent reliable LB though sooner or later.
I don't recall O'Dea getting caught out of position all game?

T-boy
05-21-2013, 10:26 AM
I don't recall O'Dea getting caught out of position all game?

I think O'Dea's permanent position is centre back no LB. So, we need to find a long term player to play LB. He played fine there, but that's not where his main strengths lie.

jloome
05-21-2013, 10:30 AM
9-10 hours.

Personally, I think it is time to give Frei a start. Frei is a better distributor and, from what I can tell, is more vocal inside the box. .

Frei's two biggest weaknesses are his complete lack of control of the box and his inaccurate distribution. He's a shot stopper.

I don't see much difference between the two of them but I will say that normally you bench a goalie when he's blown something. Bendik's been great so far, for the defence in front of him.

nonc
05-21-2013, 11:21 AM
This was a W last year and part of a minor streak, if TFC is not careful they'll be behind last years record futile pace. Rebuilding is not a good enough excuse to be bad, not even being cheap (NE, Philly).

habstfc
05-21-2013, 12:10 PM
If Lambe starts this game my head is going to explode.

West220Side
05-21-2013, 02:11 PM
---------------- Frei -----------------
Eckersley -- Caldwell -- O'Dea – Morgan---
----------- Laba ---- Bostock -------------
Brockie --------------------------Convey--
----------------- Silva ---------------------
--------------- Earnshaw -----------------

I'm going to say something like this even though it will in all likely hood NEVER happen i'm definitely behind it. I'll just run down the list and justify my choices so nobody jumps at me, how about it? Stefan Frei is going to start in net because honestly something has to change right? We keep playing Bendik because apparently he's won his spot off of Frei which I would have agreed with until a few matches ago. Bendik hasn't dived across and performed the amazing, it hasn't seemed to be anything great but at the same time I don't want to kill the boys confidence. But you have to think to yourself in the long run... "Is Joe Bendik the Goalkeeper I could take to the MLS playoffs and count on?" to me thats Super Stefan Frei not Cheap thus Better Bendik. Eckersley just because we miss his expertise over there on the right, I know I said something like don't hurry back, heal, Richters doing fine but in all honesty I didn't expect him to be out this long. Caldwell had a good game against Columbus I didn't see him put a foot wrong, and even saw him doing Henrys job most the time making sure he was in the right position. O'dea moves back from the left to the centre where he's supposed to be mainly for his warrior like leadership and because i'm throwing Morgan back into the ocean here, sink or swim boy. Apparently he's had a good run out in the reserve match, wins him his spot as far as i'm concerned. Our centre midfield really should be higher then what I have it up there, Laba has been working harder every game and Bostock apparently played deep in the reserve match pulling the strings and getting an assist to his name, I think Bostock deserves one game in the centre of the pitch to show what he can do before we ship him off. Brockie is at wide because Lambe just isn't good enough offensively, Convey gets his first start because really thats what we acquired him for right? Silva plays up top behind Earnshaw to help create, hopefully he can have a good match and show some of that flare he does on occasion. Earnshaw needs a goal, Koevermans coming back and to be honest if Koevermans comes back in full force, I wouldnt renegotiate a contract for Earnshaw. He's been streaky at best, missing clear chances the last two or three matches, and most of his goals come from the spot if im correct? Get out there boys and make us proud.

Bench depth of say ... Bendik, Henry, Richter, Ephraim, Lambe, Weideman, and Osorio.

Auzzy
05-21-2013, 02:14 PM
From TFC official Twitter account: Koevermans confirms he's not travelling to NE, eyes June 1st return. Hogan Ephraim is fully training again after injury; Ecks is still out.

OgtheDim
05-21-2013, 03:29 PM
If we don't win this one, it's going to be hard to get excited about going to BMO for the game against Philly.

Koevs will be back that game.

West220Side
05-21-2013, 03:54 PM
From TFC official Twitter account: Koevermans confirms he's not travelling to NE, eyes June 1st return. Hogan Ephraim is fully training again after injury; Ecks is still out.

Praise Jesus. Thank god that Koevermans wont be having a run out on that shitty plastic field. Hopefully he pulls a Henry and gets sick every time we travel to a shit pitch.

Yohan
05-21-2013, 04:06 PM
Praise Jesus. Thank god that Koevermans wont be having a run out on that shitty plastic field. Hopefully he pulls a Henry and gets sick every time we travel to a shit pitch.
+a billion

No more trips to Portland, NE, Seattle and Montreal at Big O. The turf monster just took out Mikael Silvestre for the season few weeks ago.

West220Side
05-21-2013, 07:16 PM
+a billion

No more trips to Portland, NE, Seattle and Montreal at Big O. The turf monster just took out Mikael Silvestre for the season few weeks ago.

Opening match of the season against Vancouver and Demerit went down what? Couldn't have been very far in at all. That's when you got to stop and think...
Can anybody tell me the real reason every mls side isn't playing on grass? Climate? Cost? whats the real reason.

69Chevy396
05-21-2013, 07:22 PM
I am still waiting to witness the emergence of Wiedeman as the striker of his generation. What is the story with him?

Yohan
05-21-2013, 07:29 PM
Opening match of the season against Vancouver and Demerit went down what? Couldn't have been very far in at all. That's when you got to stop and think...
Can anybody tell me the real reason every mls side isn't playing on grass? Climate? Cost? whats the real reason.
Seattle, Vancouver, and NE share grounds with throwball teams.

Portland, no freaking clue

Yohan
05-21-2013, 07:29 PM
I am still waiting to witness the emergence of Wiedeman as the striker of his generation. What is the story with him?
played for reserve side on Sat, and apparently looks worse than Academy kids

69Chevy396
05-21-2013, 07:39 PM
played for reserve side on Sat, and apparently looks worse than Academy kids
Didn't Plata be deemed expendable because of the Wiedeman signing? Why are they keeping him now?

Yohan
05-21-2013, 07:42 PM
Didn't Plata be deemed expendable because of the Wiedeman signing? Why are they keeping him now?
because Weedman has very little value in MLS and can't be released outright?

OgtheDim
05-21-2013, 07:43 PM
The they who did that are no longer the they in charge. He's the #4 forward right now. No use getting rid of him and eating the cap hit.

Ajax TFC
05-21-2013, 08:56 PM
+a billion

No more trips to Portland, NE, Seattle and Montreal at Big O. The turf monster just took out Mikael Silvestre for the season few weeks ago.
Not to mention that it was the NE turf that took out Koevermans in the first place.

My XI for this game:

Bendik
Richter - Caldwell - O'Dea - Morgan
Laba - Bostock
Osorio
Brockie - Silva - Convey

What!!!? NO EARNSHAW????
- Yes no Earnshaw. He's been off form for weeks now, and when he isn't scoring goals, he really isn't doing a whole lot of use. He reminds me of Jermaine Defoe like that.
Silva's not much of a target man, but he can feed Convey and Brockie the ball, and can combine with Osorio (who plays well in the AM role). And despite screwing up some good chances in the last game, he CAN score goals.
I'd also like to give Bostock one last chance in the the team, and in his natural position for once. He was pretty good there in the reserve game, despite his embarrassing attempts to win fouls. Also because I think the Laba and Hall pairing is too static. Hall plays well as a lone DM, but not so well with someone parked right next to him. And as much as I've come to like Hall, I'll take Laba over him
I'm hoping Morgan is ready to prove himself again, but it might be wiser to wait until Koev returns when he'll actually have someone to swing crosses in to. This one's a bit of a toss up (put O'Dea at LB otherwise).


There's no way Frei takes Bendik's spot. Bendik has been great, and despite what some people would like to think, Frei isn't our own van der Sar. Bendik has kept us from being blown out in several games this season, making huge stops that no goalie would be expected to make and completely bossing his box. In fact he has yet to let in more than two goals in a game. Frei when called upon didn't make those saves and got blown out 6-0. Different scenarios, sure. But Bendik has come up big on many occasions when needed, whereas Frei hasn't.

TFC07
05-21-2013, 09:55 PM
Heads up: Canada is going to play next week and I believe they will start their training camp this weekend. So this means we might be missing some of our players (like Morgan)

Greatest Ripoff
05-21-2013, 10:48 PM
Portland, no freaking clue

Jeld Wen is also used for grid iron football. A university team uses it.

notthesun
05-22-2013, 01:26 AM
Not to mention that it was the NE turf that took out Koevermans in the first place.

My XI for this game:

Bendik
Richter - Caldwell - O'Dea - Morgan
Laba - Bostock
Osorio
Brockie - Silva - Convey



I'd switch Osorio with Bostock in this formation (or start Hall in place of Osorio at CM and swap Osorio in as a sub for Bostock at AM). Bostock's been an AM his whole career and I'd still like to see him get at least one game there before we unceremoniously ship him back to England.

Abou Sky
05-22-2013, 06:31 AM
Heads up: Canada is going to play next week and I believe they will start their training camp this weekend. So this means we might be missing some of our players (like Morgan)

Hopefully Bekker too, he seems like he could be very good but Idk what is up?

nonc
05-22-2013, 12:35 PM
I'd switch Osorio with Bostock in this formation (or start Hall in place of Osorio at CM and swap Osorio in as a sub for Bostock at AM). Bostock's been an AM his whole career and I'd still like to see him get at least one game there before we unceremoniously ship him back to England.

Good collaboration guys most agreeable squad and formation yet.

RE: fullback situation, surprised nobody's brought up Convey's ability to play LB.

Yohan
05-22-2013, 12:37 PM
Good collaboration guys most agreeable squad and formation yet.

RE: fullback situation, surprised nobody's brought up Convey's ability to play LB.
because Convey's best position is not LB. his defending is suspect

ag futbol
05-22-2013, 12:48 PM
The they who did that are no longer the they in charge. He's the #4 forward right now. No use getting rid of him and eating the cap hit.
Don't think we'd have to eat it. He would need either a guaranteed contract or a certain number of years MLS experience to avoid being cut during the season with financial penalty.

The only question is whether we are past that magical date where all contracts are guaranteed for the rest of the year. But I think that's around July 1st, so I would expect he will be gone by then.

Depending on the U-17 WC Jordan Hamilton has he will have to consider signing him or face losing him for nothing similar to what happened to Aleman. Probably a better use of the spot, especially with the USL-MLS partnership ramping up.

nonc
05-22-2013, 12:56 PM
because Convey's best position is not LB. his defending is suspect

As a winger. Put him in a defensive position and it's not the same thing. Can't be a worse defender than Morgan and would be more trustworthy on the ball. Gets O'Dea together with Caldwell, which should be a priority. Opens the door for Osorio and Bostock. Kills a lot of birds with one stone.

QBall
05-22-2013, 04:14 PM
New England only has 2 more wins than us and from what I've heard TFC has been working on shoring up the defense. Game will start slow but TFC will sneak one in. 1-0 TFC.

Yohan
05-23-2013, 03:26 PM
Califf out (stomach flu), Frei out (hamstring), Ecks out, Russell. Convey achilles knock, so precautionary not playing on turf

Ajax TFC
05-23-2013, 04:34 PM
Frei out (hamstring)
Wow seriously?!? Has there ever been a more injury prone GK?

Rudy
05-23-2013, 08:35 PM
Frei's two biggest weaknesses are his complete lack of control of the box and his inaccurate distribution. He's a shot stopper.

I don't see much difference between the two of them but I will say that normally you bench a goalie when he's blown something. Bendik's been great so far, for the defence in front of him.

I miss Milos Kocic. He had character, and was a leader on the field. He is captain material.

cincy
05-24-2013, 07:21 AM
Why has Ecks been out so long ? Thought it was a minor injury

Yohan
05-24-2013, 07:59 AM
Why has Ecks been out so long ? Thought it was a minor injury
hammy tear is no joke

Fort York Redcoat
05-24-2013, 08:22 AM
hammy tear is no joke



/Mbpid7WwT_4




No joke

Ivy
05-24-2013, 04:29 PM
/Mbpid7WwT_4




No joke
Rofl.
If Ecks makes those sounds when someone picks him up, he deserves his 360k pay cheque.

Auzzy
05-24-2013, 05:45 PM
It's going to be 6 degrees and raining, feeling like 3 degrees, at game time. Ugly, especially on that plastic pitch.

ensco
05-24-2013, 08:48 PM
^I'm trying here, I really am.

This team, 6 degrees, rain, on plastic, that horrible stadium, probably be 1000 people there (this game starts before the Bruins game ends).

I say this as a fan, as a member ... I think I'd rather rent a movie.

Can someone explain why anyone should waste a Saturday night on watching this?

jloome
05-25-2013, 01:07 AM
^I'm trying here, I really am.

This team, 6 degrees, rain, on plastic, that horrible stadium, probably be 1000 people there (this game starts before the Bruins game ends).

I say this as a fan, as a member ... I think I'd rather rent a movie.

Can someone explain why anyone should waste a Saturday night on watching this?

A love of soccer, masochism and schadenfreude, all colliding simultaneously?

Relja
05-25-2013, 01:28 AM
^i'm trying here, i really am.

This team, 6 degrees, rain, on plastic, that horrible stadium, probably be 1000 people there (this game starts before the bruins game ends).

I say this as a fan, as a member ... I think i'd rather rent a movie.

Can someone explain why anyone should waste a saturday night on watching this?

for revenge!!!!!!!! For team, for city and for honour!

jazzy
05-25-2013, 12:03 PM
^I'm trying here, I really am.

This team, 6 degrees, rain, on plastic, that horrible stadium, probably be 1000 people there (this game starts before the Bruins game ends).

I say this as a fan, as a member ... I think I'd rather rent a movie.

Can someone explain why anyone should waste a Saturday night on watching this?

it's a shame that MLS allows this crap field to be even used?......if the players had a union it would have to go.....How can one expect teams to even give it there best when the 'stars' certainly are worried about injury's . then with the cold and rain,....it's a disgrace.......it's a throw-away game, win or lose.

Greatest Ripoff
05-25-2013, 12:21 PM
if the players had a union it would have to go


they do have a union.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/

Heart of Stone
05-25-2013, 04:06 PM
I imagine there is "right-to-work" for players who hate unions...

tfcocd
05-25-2013, 04:58 PM
^I'm trying here, I really am.

This team, 6 degrees, rain, on plastic, that horrible stadium, probably be 1000 people there (this game starts before the Bruins game ends).

I say this as a fan, as a member ... I think I'd rather rent a movie.

Can someone explain why anyone should waste a Saturday night on watching this?

Assuming you have watched most of the last 25 games are you sure you want to take the chance of missing the 2nd win in 26? Even though road wins are scarce I never miss a game. Maybe it's getting to the point of rubber necking but I always want to know how the boys will do, even on a disgraceful pitch and numbing atmosphere. :noidea:

mowe
05-25-2013, 06:04 PM
#TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) XI: Bendik; Richter, Caldwell, Henry, O'Dea; Brockie, Laba, Hall, Lambe; Silva, Earnshaw
#TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) substitutes: Roberts; Agbossoumonde, Morgan, Bekker, Osorio, Ephraim, Wiedeman

notthesun
05-25-2013, 06:14 PM
Looks like Brockie out wide, little choice there with Convey out, Bostock gone, and Ephraim playing as he has. We really need wingers.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 06:18 PM
Lets see how Brockie does on the side. Silva better drop back a bit or there is going to be one massive hole in the middle...again.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 06:29 PM
Ugh...all firstrow feeds are going to be NESN.

Any Canadian feeds?

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 06:43 PM
Ok, I'm watching this on MLS live, muted, with classical music playing. :drinking:soon.

lobo
05-25-2013, 06:53 PM
12th minute - have we successfully completed one pass yet?

v00d00daddy
05-25-2013, 06:55 PM
I don't like Earnshaws level of selfish play. He had no business trying to turn and shoot on his left there.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 06:57 PM
Brockie needs to play up top with Earnshaw so he is closer to goal with silva behind them. we are really beating are head against a brick wall on this.

JayMolly
05-25-2013, 06:58 PM
Ok, I'm watching this on MLS live, muted, with classical music playing. :drinking:soon.

It would be interesting to hear how many fans are in attendance for this game today.

jimiv
05-25-2013, 07:02 PM
Ok, I'm watching this on MLS live, muted, with classical music playing. :drinking:soon.

I've been thinking of subscribing but thought our games were all blacked out when watching in Toronto.

tfcleeds
05-25-2013, 07:03 PM
And there we go...

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 07:04 PM
That was a great cross but O'Dea HAS to look around.

Corpand
05-25-2013, 07:06 PM
I think Richter needed to put more pressure on Tierney, he hasn't on multiple occasions tonight and it gives him freedom to cross.

That cross and finish were class though. Fuck. There are MANY more goals to this though, some coming our way for sure. This game's conditions make this feel like a field hockey match.

Section 107
05-25-2013, 07:07 PM
Has Reggie Lambe had a touch????

jloome
05-25-2013, 07:08 PM
I think Richter needed to put more pressure on Tierney, he hasn't on multiple occasions tonight and it gives him freedom to cross. That cross and finish were class though. Fuck. There are MANY more goals to this though, some coming our way for sure. This game's conditions make this feel like a field hockey match. That cross and finish were basic; no one was marking the man on the back post, Doneil had been pulled out of position and wasn't marking anyone. Pathetic. No sense of each other's movement, no completed passes, just pressure constantly and hope for a break. This is worse than Preki ball.

Richard
05-25-2013, 07:10 PM
Just tuned in, http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/2050391/walks-out-o.gif.

v00d00daddy
05-25-2013, 07:11 PM
Please no more o Dea dead balls. His distribution sucks.

Corpand
05-25-2013, 07:13 PM
That cross and finish were basic; no one was marking the man on the back post, Doneil had been pulled out of position and wasn't marking anyone. Pathetic. No sense of each other's movement, no completed passes, just pressure constantly and hope for a break. This is worse than Preki ball.

This really makes my blood boil but is absolutely true. I don't know if it's about players getting to know each other anymore. This formation sucks. Easy to find out what our next move is. I remember Nelsen talking about how he wants his team to control the game to be in control of the opponent. All I have seen is the absolute opposite for the past few matches.

v00d00daddy
05-25-2013, 07:13 PM
That cross and finish were basic; no one was marking the man on the back post, Doneil had been pulled out of position and wasn't marking anyone. Pathetic. No sense of each other's movement, no completed passes, just pressure constantly and hope for a break. This is worse than Preki ball.

Pressuring high and hoping for a break seems to be our attacking philosophy. Lol

Meanwhile Nguyen and Toja are ripping us apart. They look like higuain from last game.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 07:14 PM
Every time we've tried the long ball down the right, its gone nowhere.

jloome
05-25-2013, 07:14 PM
Pressuring high and hoping for a break seems to be our attacking philosophy. Lol Meanwhile Nguyen and Toja are ripping us apart. They look like higuain from last game. I just get no sense we're even trying to build through the middle. It's just dump and chase.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 07:17 PM
I just get no sense we're even trying to build through the middle. It's just dump and chase.

There's no middle to build through. Hall and Laba are playing in front of the back 4.

Lambe...where attacks crumple up and get tossed into nothingness.

notthesun
05-25-2013, 07:18 PM
Long balls from half into the box. We must be 0/50 by now on chances coming from them, let alone goals. We have no height up front, what's the point? Just put the ball down, pass, and move forward.

Dkolish3
05-25-2013, 07:19 PM
The American Colour guy is not all there right?

Corpand
05-25-2013, 07:20 PM
I just get no sense we're even trying to build through the middle. It's just dump and chase.

We are trying to build through our wings. We have two absolutely ineffective players playing as wingers. Down a goal. Case closed. Come on you fuckinnnn REDS get your shit together man. This is embarrassing.

v00d00daddy
05-25-2013, 07:20 PM
I just get no sense we're even trying to build through the middle. It's just dump and chase.

Only guy looking to get forward seems to be Richter.

Hall, laba and Lambe have been invisible.

I think they have to bring Silva back to play off of laba and richter on the right side and switch brockie back to the right side as well.

It you're gonna put all your eggs in one basket may as well go for it.

The left side with o Dea, and Lambe deserves to be completely ignored going forward.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 07:24 PM
Laba hasn't been invisible from what I've seen. He's been told to go seek and destroy attacks. And Hall is taking up space; between them, nothing is workign for NE through the middle. BUT Brockie is looking as useful out on the wing as Bostock.

notthesun
05-25-2013, 07:24 PM
Good vision from Laba just inside the box on the right with that chip to the back post. If that's Koevermans instead of Earnshaw he probably gets his head on it.

edit: Wow Earnshaw passed and Brockie almost scored. I expected Earnshaw to shoot from there lol

Yohan
05-25-2013, 07:27 PM
just slightly off timing on that Earnshaw cross to Brockie

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 07:33 PM
You know, its not like either team is rocking the high notes here. A lot of misplaced passes. Our possession though is AWFUL.

jloome
05-25-2013, 07:38 PM
You know, its not like either team is rocking the high notes here. A lot of misplaced passes. Our possession though is AWFUL. Oh, please. Let's not pretend New England didn't dominate that half. They're supposed to be a weak team in this league; against LA or Seattle, it would be 3-0 by now. It's like we didn't even try offensive buildup until the last three minutes of the half.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 07:44 PM
Oh I don't think we are doing great but.........Dominate? Buddy, they are both lousy teams. NE looks industrious, but they are at home...they should be.

Look at the Stats - 6 attempts vs. 5. Our passing accuracy is crud, as is our possession. Well that happens when you hoof and when we play Reggie Lambe.

Frankly, I see NE moving the ball around but not getting very far. Whereas, we kick the ball into nowhere and are not getting very far.

Don't forget, I'm watching the game without commentators blaring at me.

tfcleeds
05-25-2013, 07:47 PM
Don't forget, I'm watching the game without commentators blaring at me.

These NE commentators are unbearable. I think I'll be switching to classical music soon myself.

notthesun
05-25-2013, 07:48 PM
Man, just start Osorio from here on out. Making Farrell look silly multiple times there, unlucky he didn't get the cross in.

edit: That was fantastic from Laba.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 07:49 PM
iam not surprised we are playing better without Lambe. I could of told Nelsen that 5 games ago.

Suds
05-25-2013, 07:51 PM
iam not surprised we are playing better without Lambe. I could of told Nelsen that 5 games ago.

why didn't you?? we may have more points!

jk g:D

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 07:53 PM
Ok...something weird must have happened.

I've seen us bring up out of the back now twice in the last 5 minutes.

Have they been....coached?

Dkolish3
05-25-2013, 07:54 PM
How can you describe this game? Anemic, Sunderland-esque, soul sucking, YAAAAWNN.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 07:55 PM
why didn't you?? we may have more points!

jk g:D


I wish. We are still all over the place positionally but atleast we have the right guys on the pitch now.

Dkolish3
05-25-2013, 07:55 PM
Also Henry made a nice recovery.

Suds
05-25-2013, 07:56 PM
Ok...something weird must have happened.

I've seen us bring up out of the back now twice in the last 5 minutes.

Have they been....coached?

I think when the defenders have both Osorio and Laba showing for the ball it gives them options. When it is just Laba it is easy for NE to cover him .. hence, long balls all the time.

notthesun
05-25-2013, 07:58 PM
Fucking Richter. Take it down or try to direct the header somewhere instead of popping it straight up into the air. How the hell are we going to get by with Ecks out another 3-4 weeks...

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 08:04 PM
Hall is pushing up to high, he should pushing more towards the touchline.

Corpand
05-25-2013, 08:07 PM
Guys, I dont want to sound like a prick but I think we will come out of this with a win. They boys look hungry.

Ivy
05-25-2013, 08:08 PM
Never play Reggie again. Ever.

notthesun
05-25-2013, 08:09 PM
Honestly this team is all over the place. We pass the ball out with all our mids dropping back to collect and support each other, and the next possession they're all standing still in the opponent's half and we blast it out and pray. We get free kicks just inside the opposition half and we elect to boot it into the box instead of maintain possession, but when we get a free kick around the edge of the box in an actually dangerous area we play it short.

Christ.

edit: Henry has the ball at the back. Laba drops then peels off his man, and is visibly calling for the ball 3 or 4 times. Henry blasts it up the field to no one. Rinse and repeat.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 08:13 PM
Richter's throws go to their first man. Not far enough for somebody to attack. I don't know why we bother.

Ivy
05-25-2013, 08:16 PM
I've said from day 1 that they are useless.

Ivy
05-25-2013, 08:21 PM
Lol....

mowe
05-25-2013, 08:23 PM
Has TFC looked threatening to score at any point in this game? Until we get a roster overhaul this team will just play every game trying not to lose.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 08:25 PM
Has TFC looked threatening to score at any point in this game? Until we get a roster overhaul this team will just play every game trying not to lose.


There has been spurts of chances after the switch. But even though switch has been good, the players dont know where to be.

billyfly
05-25-2013, 08:25 PM
Can we start the "worst team in the world" conversation again? Or did we never leave it.


25 games and 1 win.

jloome
05-25-2013, 08:28 PM
Oh I don't think we are doing great but.........Dominate? Buddy, they are both lousy teams. NE looks industrious, but they are at home...they should be. Look at the Stats - 6 attempts vs. 5. Our passing accuracy is crud, as is our possession. Well that happens when you hoof and when we play Reggie Lambe. Frankly, I see NE moving the ball around but not getting very far. Whereas, we kick the ball into nowhere and are not getting very far. Don't forget, I'm watching the game without commentators blaring at me. They're bad, we're awful. They had 65% of the ball in the first half and the only real chances. So yes, we were being dominated, by a bad team no less. We've never looked like having a chance in this. And I don't have the commentary on, either.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 08:28 PM
How can you describe this game? Anemic, Sunderland-esque, soul sucking, YAAAAWNN.

Sunderland vs. Aston Villa

You know neither of them is going down but its all a bit scrappy. And you pray that one year...just one year...it will be better.

Yohan
05-25-2013, 08:31 PM
well, another late goal given up and first time going to lose by more than 1 goal.

jloome
05-25-2013, 08:32 PM
And that's that. The weekly embarrassment is over. Back to the next week of praying for competence.

Yohan
05-25-2013, 08:32 PM
wow Hall. you suck.

mowe
05-25-2013, 08:33 PM
Hall misses target on a great chance for a consolation goal.

Final score NE 2-0 TFC.

billyfly
05-25-2013, 08:33 PM
Sigh. (Exhales)

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 08:33 PM
How did he.................

Ivy
05-25-2013, 08:34 PM
Thanks for jinxing us RYAN. Lol. "We're the only team who hast lost by more than 1 goal..."

Richard
05-25-2013, 08:34 PM
http://www.find-me-a-gift.co.uk/images/product_images/isl001-sack-of-shit.jpg

lobo
05-25-2013, 08:34 PM
atrocious. ugly. amateur.

and there goes perhaps the last of nelsen's positive talking points - we lost by more than one goal

billyfly
05-25-2013, 08:35 PM
If Ryan were not critically acclaimed by Payne, would he still be around?

Richard
05-25-2013, 08:36 PM
Winless in 10 or 11? Lost track.

Richard
05-25-2013, 08:36 PM
If Ryan were not critically acclaimed by Payne, would he still be around?

No coach survives being winless in 10. Except this year, go figure.

adam1001
05-25-2013, 08:37 PM
This is just depressing.

Marc"2L"
05-25-2013, 08:37 PM
The lack of activity here says a lot about where we're at.

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 08:37 PM
Can we start the "worst team in the world" conversation again? Or did we never leave it.


25 games and 1 win.
Now wait a minute, I think we may be better than that team of pygmies on the Palau Islands.

cochrdoc
05-25-2013, 08:38 PM
How low can you go.A 18 year old runs circles around you.This team would struggle in the nasl or usl pro league.There is not much there.We have no bite,no offence and a leaky defence.I think I`m going to start cheering for Montreal.

BuSaPuNk
05-25-2013, 08:39 PM
Terrible terrible game. Why does Lambe still get a look? Laba and Henry and Osorio were the only bright spots. Wonder what Nelsen will have to say now doesn't have any of the usual talking points.

nonc
05-25-2013, 08:41 PM
How can you describe this game? Anemic, Sunderland-esque, soul sucking, YAAAAWNN.

I was gunning hard for Sunderland to be relegated, I can't watch that team. Nelsen is useless. Bonehead Mariner accomplished just about the same thing with a team of pure scrubs.

billyfly
05-25-2013, 08:41 PM
If I wasn't from Toronto.....

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 08:42 PM
Good Things

Osorio

Laba

Silva in the second half

Caldwell

Henry, when playing defence

Hall, when taking up space

O'Dea

Earnshaw's effort (getting no service)

Distribution in the second half


Works in Progress

Richter in defence

Brockie



WTF Those Need Changing

Long throws

ALL set pieces

Can we PLEASE have somebody for Laba et all to pass to from the beginning of the game?

Lambe, enough is enough.

Hall and Henry passing

Silva as a striker?

Stop hoofball until we have a target

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 08:42 PM
This was on the Nelsen/coaching staff.


If we had played the personnel from the second half in the first half we would probably had the result.


Like I said before we are not far off as far personnel but our tactical schemes need work and the first 11 needs to gel playing the new way not that long bally-hoo.

Daze
05-25-2013, 08:45 PM
As a wise man once said: "i fucking hate this team, but that's mostly because I support them."

I really don't know what to do with this team anymore.

I really don't understand the reluctancy of this organization to shell out money for a proper Manager. God knows we have the money.

if we were to again go the route of signing an inexperienced coach I suggested, as well as many others, that we try to get Caleb Porter in the off-season. We Didn't, and now Portland plays some of the best football in the league, has only one loss this season, and we have only 1 win.

I hate everything. Everything is the worst.

I really think something needs to be done by the fans to show that enough is enough. I don't want to wait around 'till the end of the season. something needs to be done.

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 08:46 PM
Suggestion: Buy one of the financially strapped teams in Serie B, release every player on the current roster, fire the managers and scouting staff, and agree never to sign another player or manager from the UK.

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 08:48 PM
This was on the Nelsen/coaching staff.


If we had played the personnel from the second half in the first half we would probably had the result.


Like I said before we are not far off as far personnel but our tactical schemes need work and the first 11 needs to gel playing the new way not that long bally-hoo.

I'm agree.....next week we throw Koevs into the mix. He can handle the long ball but there needs to be pressure and movement.

We might see that midfield you've been talking about? With Silva and Laba and Brockie/Convey in front of Hall.

notthesun
05-25-2013, 08:51 PM
Time to demote Lambe to a 1 in 10 player.

Ivy
05-25-2013, 08:51 PM
Nelson is not going anywhere, and I'm glad. Give him the 3 transfer windows that he wants. This team is a horrible disaster, and needs time to collect its future players and then let them bond. Nelson can't make something out of nothing. No coach in the world will be able to do anything with a team that doesn't know it self.

Red CB Toronto
05-25-2013, 08:53 PM
Not sure what else could be said after the following

5 losses in a row, winless in 10 in MLS. 1 win in 12, 0 clean sheets in MLS. 1 win in 27 MLS games. 12 pts out of playoffs

"DON'T STOP BELIEVING"

khso11
05-25-2013, 08:54 PM
Im gonna give nelsen all his time, but if they play like this game in game out, not many people would have that patients.

khso11
05-25-2013, 08:57 PM
WTF Those Need Changing

Long throws

ALL set pieces

Can we PLEASE have somebody for Laba et all to pass to from the beginning of the game?

Lambe, enough is enough.

Hall and Henry passing

Silva as a striker?

Stop hoofball until we have a target

exactly

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 08:57 PM
Suggestion: Buy one of the financially strapped teams in Serie B, release every player on the current roster, fire the managers and scouting staff, and agree never to sign another player or manager from the UK.


Why would you hire someone from the least tactical countries/league in world football. English football is extremely linear and is centered around players being big, strong and fast.


but I will say english football has the fittest players in the game though. But technical players become legends instantly.

Cantona, Zola, Ronaldo, makelele

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 08:59 PM
As for those crying for Nelson to be out, no. We won't have a decent team until the summer of 2014. The team we had back in December was worse then an expansion franchise. The players we have are not what we will have. Most of us said that the team that starts the season will not look anything like the team that ends it. The summer window will see how we do.


Nelson has an idea of how he wants to play. We don't have the players to be able to play that, yet. We won't have a decent team until the summer of 2014. In the meantime, he is finding out, slowly, how bad some players are.

Many of us have identified who have been issues, and eventually, Nelson sees that too (usually when they make a few glaring errors causing us to lose possession or causing a goal). This is the week where Nelson hopefully saw that Lambe is just not effective as a starter.

Frankly, on the team that was out there today, I only expect Silva, Laba, Caldwell, Henry, & Bendik to be starting games next season.

We won't have a decent team until the summer of 2014.

Payne and the MLSE brass know this.
This is going to be one painfull season.

reggie
05-25-2013, 09:03 PM
wtf lol omfg.....I going to smoke some crack with the ford bros

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 09:04 PM
Why would you hire someone from the least tactical countries/league in world football. English football is extremely linear and is centered around players being big, strong and fast.


but I will say english football has the fittest players in the game though. But technical players become legends instantly.

Cantona, Zola, Ronaldo, makelele

Forget the EPL. All these garbage players and useless managers from the lower UK leagues have done nothing here except fostering a dreadful losing organization. Time to put an end to this

reggie
05-25-2013, 09:07 PM
not that it matters....van has our 1st rd pick

torfchamilton
05-25-2013, 09:08 PM
I am not sure who to blame? The players that have been brought in must have been by Nelson himself. The either dont seem to cut it or need a bit of time to adjust to MLS. Secondly, what style will we try and play if they get the players? Direct football at it's finest ala Tony Pulis' Stoke City? I am not convinced Nelson has a style in mind other than play hard and leave it on the field. We didn't get the results with Winter but at times it was decent football. What we are seeing is a slap in the face to the supporters. I am tired of this and some times as supporters you need to protest and yes this involves doing it at games. Yes we are supporters, but enough is enough.

TOBOR !
05-25-2013, 09:08 PM
.. oh. sorry. I must`ve stumbled into the wrong thread. I was looking for tonight`s game thread, but this appears to be the thread from the Columbus game... or the San Jose game... or could it be that I've fallen into a wormhole and this is for the Philadelphia game ?

OgtheDim
05-25-2013, 09:11 PM
Why would you hire someone from the least tactical countries/league in world football. English football is extremely linear and is centered around players being big, strong and fast.


but I will say english football has the fittest players in the game though. But technical players become legends instantly.

Cantona, Zola, Ronaldo, makelele

I agree.

But, if I might point out, one of the best technical players we had in the first few years was a certain carthouse centre forward named Dichio. The technical expertise in MLS is quite low.

E.g. Di Vaio looked like a genius tonight by scoring with the outside of his non-usual striking boot.

To me, Ephraim is a great technician with the ball. He just can't get to it when there is no cart horse around him banging bodies. He's like a decent NHL centre who needs a grinding banging winger to allow him space.

There are decent UK technical players. But they need a system around them to succeed.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 09:11 PM
Forget the EPL. All these garbage players and useless managers from the lower UK leagues have done nothing here except fostering a dreadful losing organization. Time to put an end to this


I use the EPL because its the Apex of English football(overrun by foreigner players/managers)


I understand your point about the lower leagues, but I think its a losing battle because most of TFC's supporters, support these lower league teams that you speak of.

TOBOR !
05-25-2013, 09:13 PM
On the bright side, I got the grass cut, squeezed in a run and found a four-pack of Old Speckled Hen I'd forgotten about. Another loss for TFC ? Meh.

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 09:13 PM
The technical expertise in MLS is quite low.

Right, and never more apparent than on TFC

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 09:14 PM
I agree.

But, if I might point out, one of the best technical players we had in the first few years was a certain carthouse centre forward named Dichio. The technical expertise in MLS is quite low.

E.g. Di Vaio looked like a genius tonight by scoring with the outside of his non-usual striking boot.

To me, Ephraim is a great technician with the ball. He just can't get to it when there is no cart horse around him banging bodies. He's like a decent NHL centre who needs a grinding banging winger to allow him space.

There are decent UK technical players. But they need a system around them to succeed.


fair enough but even Dichio played in Italy giving him a more well rounded game because he actually left the Uk to ply his trade and had to learn to adjust to continental football.



But Koevs is the far more techincal of the two, because he comes from a country where technical ability is the order of the day.

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 09:15 PM
I use the EPL because its the Apex of English football(overrun by foreigner players/managers)


I understand your point about the lower leagues, but I think its a losing battle because most of TFC's supporters, support these lower league teams that you speak of.
I appreciate this, and there will always be a strong attachment here to English football, but it simply has not worked here.

Hamilton_Red
05-25-2013, 09:18 PM
What has Payne done for the team. Its worse than last year.

reggie
05-25-2013, 09:18 PM
maybe another 25% off for next season?

MG42
05-25-2013, 09:20 PM
.. oh. sorry. I must`ve stumbled into the wrong thread. I was looking for tonight`s game thread, but this appears to be the thread from the Columbus game... or the San Jose game... or could it be that I've fallen into a wormhole and this is for the Philadelphia game ?

Or '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12?

TOBOR !
05-25-2013, 09:20 PM
^ pretty much :D

torfchamilton
05-25-2013, 09:21 PM
I have said this before and maybe Nelson has said it, but if he had all the players that he wanted what would our style of play be? As a brand new coach does he know how he wants to play the game?

cementhead
05-25-2013, 09:22 PM
This team is a joke!How long before we score another goal!

reggie
05-25-2013, 09:22 PM
from PB TWITTER...congratz to George gillett on yr second win in a row...JUS KIDDIN

Morlesio14
05-25-2013, 09:24 PM
laba was good, a player to build around

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 09:25 PM
I appreciate this, and there will always be a strong attachment here to English football, but it simply has not worked here.


I agree!. Besides whats seen by the top teams in the prem(city,united,chelsea,arsenal,tottenham) or the watfords and swanseas of the world.


There is nothing about that football that should be copied or replicated except for the fitness regime.



Its on those fans to say enough is enough "I dont care if I can't understand his english and his name his hard to say when I've had a couple pints I want quality football".

torfchamilton
05-25-2013, 09:27 PM
Its on those fans to say enough is enough "I dont care if I can't understand his english and his name his hard to say when I've had a couple pints I want quality football".

Totally agree, enough is enough.

jazzy
05-25-2013, 09:28 PM
they do have a union.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/

my bad ..ok if mls didn't own everything, contracts..etc surely teams would be forced to sharpen up or be a losing cause.....uhhh ....so whats our excuse...I give up.....btw we have a big problem , not just losing but , this is really horrible football. We do not have offensive guidance. and / or ability....FFS why Lambe? and as people in posts have often mentioned we can't have Laba and Hall both on at the same time. Osorio has to be a starter FFs,....we will never improve until we get a IMPORTANT AM......not a hole filler but a top quality player. We scare no one! To win we need an amazing defence and we only have an adequate one. I get a headache from some of these games. who cares about promises that simply means again next yeart we`ll be at our familiar spot of rebuilding. The entertainment value is AGAIN nowhere to be found.......not being negative, unfortunately it`s my team but, god TO could use some fresh air these days, very tiring.

JohnnyEnglish
05-25-2013, 09:32 PM
Why would you hire someone from the least tactical countries/league in world football. English football is extremely linear and is centered around players being big, strong and fast.


but I will say english football has the fittest players in the game though. But technical players become legends instantly.

Cantona, Zola, Ronaldo, makelele

This couldn't be much further from the truth, but humoring it for a second, our two wall of fame players came straight out of the english second tier.

The lack of communication today was frustrating, we need to be more vocal out there. In my opinion, so does Nelson. The coach of the team a goal down with 20 to go should not be leaning against his dugout silent.

Far too many simple mistake, many from our better players. O'Dea's freekicks and general distribution isn't working. It really doesn't look like we put any training when it comes to set pieces.

Earnshaw backing into the defender looking to draw a foul continuously isn't working. Playing the ball over the top and exploiting the space can be successful, Columbus has success trying this against us last weekend. Playing the ball to the head of a 5ft 10 striker is completely different.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 09:43 PM
This couldn't be much further from the truth, but humoring it for a second, our two wall of fame players came straight out of the english second tier.

The lack of communication today was frustrating, we need to be more vocal out there. In my opinion, so does Nelson. The coach of the team a goal down with 20 to go should not be leaning against his dugout silent.

Far too many simple mistake, many from our better players. O'Dea's freekicks and general distribution isn't working. It really doesn't look like we put any training when it comes to set pieces.

Earnshaw backing into the defender looking to draw a foul continuously isn't working. Playing the ball over the top and exploiting the space can be successful, Columbus has success trying this against us last weekend. Playing the ball to the head of a 5ft 10 striker is completely different.


I assume your talking about Tfc, and your statement is correct but doesnt negate the fact those two "wall of famers" were part of losing teams.

I dont know if you are just trying to be the voice of desent but what I am saying is 7 years of observation. Even when we hired a manager from a different football philosphy the "oi oi" bunch sabotaged his efforts said he was too strict(when thats what the club needed) and got him removed.


Now we are back to linear hoofball, as tactical choice.

adam1001
05-25-2013, 09:43 PM
Or '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12?
I miss '09. The only season where we were remotely close to playoff soccer.

reggie
05-25-2013, 09:46 PM
frankly im sick of earnshaw and his on holiday pics...I hope he is enjoying his holiday

notthesun
05-25-2013, 09:46 PM
What has Payne done for the team. Its worse than last year.

Actually we're 3 points ahead of where we were last year.

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 09:47 PM
I miss '09. The only season where we were remotely close to playoff soccer.
Nobody left from that team

adam1001
05-25-2013, 09:49 PM
Nobody left from that team
Yeah. The turnover rate of this team has been shocking, to say the least.

jazzy
05-25-2013, 09:49 PM
As for those crying for Nelson to be out, no. We won't have a decent team until the summer of 2014. The team we had back in December was worse then an expansion franchise. The players we have are not what we will have. Most of us said that the team that starts the season will not look anything like the team that ends it. The summer window will see how we do.


Nelson has an idea of how he wants to play. We don't have the players to be able to play that, yet. We won't have a decent team until the summer of 2014. In the meantime, he is finding out, slowly, how bad some players are.

Many of us have identified who have been issues, and eventually, Nelson sees that too (usually when they make a few glaring errors causing us to lose possession or causing a goal). This is the week where Nelson hopefully saw that Lambe is just not effective as a starter.

Frankly, on the team that was out there today, I only expect Silva, Laba, Caldwell, Henry, & Bendik to be starting games next season.

We won't have a decent team until the summer of 2014.

Payne and the MLSE brass know this.
This is going to be one painfull season.

you make good points but why does Lambe start always...he`s said he likes him....until he`s on the bench we are ineffective on his side. and to be really ridiculous Amerikwa has just scored for Fire.....hahah

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 09:51 PM
Actually we're 3 points ahead of where we were last year.
We should have a parade

jloome
05-25-2013, 09:53 PM
the "oi oi" bunch sabotaged his efforts .

Totally inaccurate. Of the frequent anti-winter posters, only Exiled was a British football fan and even then it was premier league. Roogsy, the biggest opponent on this board and the most vocal of the well-known fan group members, called for more South American players to be considered.

The "anti-winter" crowd were premature, there's no doubt, but he was never going to succeed, both due to his own direction and the complete lack of support from the club and front office.

I'm not sure what will happen. I'm a fan, either way. I'd like to think that given time to adjust, we'll see Nelsen improve on this. But I'm not sure based on the players chosen and signed so far or the tactical approach taken that either Nelsen or Payne are the saviors they've been set out to be.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 09:53 PM
frankly im sick of earnshaw and his on holiday pics...I hope he is enjoying his holiday


As far as Earnshaw, my biggest problem is that he doesnt trust his team mates enough to lay the ball off. He started to do it when Brockie got up there with him though.

The guys in the attack just need more time to work on schemes and gel.

JohnnyEnglish
05-25-2013, 09:58 PM
frankly im sick of earnshaw and his on holiday pics...I hope he is enjoying his holiday

He's scored 45% of our league goals this season. I'm sure he's enjoying his holiday.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 10:00 PM
Totally inaccurate. Of the frequent anti-winter posters, only Exiled was a British football fan and even then it was premier league. Roogsy, the biggest opponent on this board and the most vocal of the well-known fan group members, called for more South American players to be considered.

The "anti-winter" crowd were premature, there's no doubt, but he was never going to succeed, both due to his own direction and the complete lack of support from the club and front office.

I'm not sure what will happen. I'm a fan, either way. I'd like to think that given time to adjust, we'll see Nelsen improve on this. But I'm not sure based on the players chosen and signed so far or the tactical approach taken that either Nelsen or Payne are the saviors they've been set out to be.


I guess you want to take a swing as well:rolleyes:, but I was speaking about the Management team Winter was given to work with not the supporters on this Board but I'm glad even you must admit that there is an element amongst the supporters.


Constantly indicting our technical players for being pricks, but praising less technical hacks because they get "stuck in" and play with heart.


We even had a "bad attitude thread" that probably contained 85% of TFC's most skilled players ever.

DoubleUp
05-25-2013, 10:04 PM
We should have a parade
:jester:

TFC07
05-25-2013, 10:04 PM
Just reading this thread, I am glad I didn't watch the game tonight.

The only thing we got looking forward to is Danny K's return and summer window. Outside of that, this team is boring to watch and they're not even winning to justify their style of play. Time to change tactics and apply more attacking oriented line up instead of playing defensive.

reggie
05-25-2013, 10:08 PM
He's scored 45% of our league goals this season. I'm sure he's enjoying his holiday.

45% of nothing is not much...what has he done lately other then missing sitters.. 70% of his goals are PKs

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 10:13 PM
If I were Danny K I might drop an anvil on my foot rather than suit up on this team of sad sacks.

69Chevy396
05-25-2013, 10:14 PM
I miss Harmse and Gargan

ag futbol
05-25-2013, 10:18 PM
Didn’t watch, but it sounds like a bad re-run of previous outings.

Anyway, the thing that gets me (that someone already mentioned) is that we go through all this and in the end MAYBE Nelsen ends up being a great coach, but maybe he doesn’t. All the failures and problems this club has yet they still turned to an inexperienced hire.

This isn’t a knock on Nelsen, as much as it’s questioning whether he’s a fit or an appropriate hire given our circumstances.

reggie
05-25-2013, 10:19 PM
I miss Harmse and Gargan

those were the days...the odd win the odd clean sheet,,,,we can only dream...

backbeat
05-25-2013, 10:44 PM
just watched Nelsen and he's saying we out played them and had more possession - not sure what game he was at but hearing him say that makes me really uncomfortable for the future...now Earnshaw in saying we could have lost by more has it bang on which is depressing in itself....we were horrible, simply pathetic tonight....

Jeff s
05-25-2013, 11:03 PM
I thought the youngsters like Osario, Henry and Laba played well. We kept the ball well in the second half, but created virtually nothing ( tends to happen when nobody moves to open spaces ).

We need to stop with the half field free kicks. Its embarrassing. Only team in the league stupid enough to do this every time.

O'dea's marking coughed up 2 goals. Honestly, just put Morgan back in there. At least he has some speed and can put in proper crosses. Give our attacking SOME kind of delivery..

QBall
05-25-2013, 11:05 PM
If I were Danny K I might drop an anvil on my foot rather than suit up on this team of sad sacks.

I wouldn't blame him if he did. The amount of pressure that he must feel knowing that many see him as the savior of TFC. The sad part is he probably is the savior not because he's that good it's just that we really have nothing else to look forward to!

maninb
05-25-2013, 11:34 PM
Didn't watch the game or the "highlights" but I'm so IMMUNE to this disaster of a franchise losing again that I don't really care anymore....Can it possibly get any worse? I don't think so...and there's not a ray of hope on the horizon....Pathetic...

Prof
05-25-2013, 11:50 PM
I think we all agree it is very disappointing that we lost again, but things could be much worse, such as not having a team in the MLS and being forced to watch meaningless NHL playoff games or even worse having to sit through a Blue Jay game.

gate7
05-26-2013, 12:20 AM
:
.. oh. sorry. I must`ve stumbled into the wrong thread. I was looking for tonight`s game thread, but this appears to be the thread from the Columbus game... or the San Jose game... or could it be that I've fallen into a wormhole and this is for the Philadelphia game ?

:lol: #1 post of the nite.


next game start Frei. need to change that up. im exhausted.

Yohan
05-26-2013, 01:55 AM
Player interviews... they all look and sound like they just got beaten up by a team of 10 yr old girls.

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 05:31 AM
I purposely waited to post on the day after in the hopes of seeing things with a little less anger.

-we were dreadful in the first half. Almost as bad as it gets. ZERO creativity or ambition moving forward. Earnshaw was his usual greedy self. We had no movement in the middle of the field. Laba had a slow start but picked it up. Silva looked interested but isolated and got little accomplished.

-we were better in the second half. Osorio had a great game. Laba was more involved and had a good overall game.

-O'Dea might have been the weakest player on our back line. Richter wasn't great but at least he contributed (or tried) getting up field. O'Dea's dead balls are brutal and the fact that he stands over most of them is a serious lack of character on this team. I don't care if he's the captain...Laba or Silva or SOMEBODY needs to tell him to get the fuck away from the ball on set pieces.

I'm writing this before watching the post game comments only because I know that if what a previous poster said is true about Nelsen's post game, this post would have been tainted with my anger. LOL

JavierMartini
05-26-2013, 06:03 AM
:

:lol: #1 post of the nite.


next game start Frei. need to change that up. im exhausted.

because getting slaughtered by Montreal wasn't bad enough

tfcleeds
05-26-2013, 06:20 AM
If a home game next week and Koevs return aren't enough to shake this team out of its funk even a little bit, I really don't know what will. I watched the game last night, but was seriously considering other options. I just feel a malaise of real disinterest of what happens to this club settling in, and as much as I don't like having that feeling, part of it is really unavoidable.

I knew this would be a tough season going in, and I wasn't expecting much. But to not look any better than we did under Mariner just really sucks the enthusiasm right out. How is it possible that we still keep making the same mistakes (another late goal conceded, yet again) and still insist on doing what doesn't work in attack? Say what you will about Nelsen's inexperience, but at least under a defender who captained a World Cup squad, I was expecting things to be tighter at the back than they have been so far.

69Chevy396
05-26-2013, 07:13 AM
Player interviews... they all look and sound like they just got beaten up by a team of 10 yr old girls.
None of these players should be blamed for their miserable performance. It is not their fault they are playing way above their heads, with most more suited to either retirement or playing with children.

69Chevy396
05-26-2013, 07:40 AM
If a home game next week and Koevs return aren't enough to shake this team out of its funk even a little bit, I really don't know what will. I watched the game last night, but was seriously considering other options. I just feel a malaise of real disinterest of what happens to this club settling in, and as much as I don't like having that feeling, part of it is really unavoidable.

I knew this would be a tough season going in, and I wasn't expecting much. But to not look any better than we did under Mariner just really sucks the enthusiasm right out. How is it possible that we still keep making the same mistakes (another late goal conceded, yet again) and still insist on doing what doesn't work in attack? Say what you will about Nelsen's inexperience, but at least under a defender who captained a World Cup squad, I was expecting things to be tighter at the back than they have been so far.
I am no soccer expert, but anybody watching this team play must quickly form the opinion that mlse has, for 7 years now, utterly failed to assess the competition as the principal factor in player and coaching recruitment. The same idiotic mindset used to select the Luca Cereda's in failed experiments year after year. Instead of building around known commodities (cronin, Dero), we opt for the unknown (too many to mention). Then we are left asking the question; "he played at the very highest level 10 years ago so he must be good", or "he played on the worst team in the English first division but will eat up mls defenders". Frankly, this has almost destroyed fan interest in this city, time to build an mls club in the mls method.

ensco
05-26-2013, 07:51 AM
I didn't watch the game, but I think there is no point getting upset. The team sucks. There is no one to blame, ownership has hired a decent President.

I will definitely be there on nice days, in the sunshine, cheering for my team. But it's not the same, and when it will be the same, is in the hands of others. I'm not watching every game. My interest level will come back when the team plays better.

Sounds like Laba is doing OK. I'm glad to hear that.

Mak
05-26-2013, 08:07 AM
I also waited o this morning to post so my anger doesn't get the best of me. Team looked horrible in first half, better in second. I squarely blame Nelsen. Henry played better than last week, but when he is not defending and standing over the ball, he has zero composure. Trade Cailiff if are not going to play him, same with Frei. Lambe is still useless, Hall cannot play with Laba, Silva needs to drop to mid. I get here are injuries....but playing O'Dea in LB is retarded. The fact that he forwards cannot get service is mind numbing still. Positives: Caldwell, Laba, Osorio

Abou Sky
05-26-2013, 08:24 AM
What concerned me most about the game was the stands, how long before BMO field is that empty and people start talking about moving TFC to Phoenix/Atlanta/Charlotte etc?

tiberius
05-26-2013, 08:41 AM
What concerned me most about the game was the stands, how long before BMO field is that empty and people start talking about moving TFC to Phoenix/Atlanta/Charlotte etc?

That's one thing I don't think we need to worry about - we have a large, lucrative, proven market. All they have to do is string a few wins together, perhaps make the playoffs half the time, and all will be well. They are sitting on a goldmine, and they know it. They just are really slow at figuring out how to dig up a few wins...

QBall
05-26-2013, 09:00 AM
I think we all agree it is very disappointing that we lost again, but things could be much worse, such as not having a team in the MLS and being forced to watch meaningless NHL playoff games or even worse having to sit through a Blue Jay game.

At least we're not Chicago. Yet anyway.

Abou Sky
05-26-2013, 09:15 AM
There is always the Lynx

http://www.torontolynxpremiersoccer.com

ManUtd4ever
05-26-2013, 09:16 AM
I didn't watch the game, but I think there is no point getting upset. The team sucks. There is no one to blame, ownership has hired a decent President.

I will definitely be there on nice days, in the sunshine, cheering for my team. But it's not the same, and when it will be the same, is in the hands of others. I'm not watching every game. My interest level will come back when the team plays better.

Sounds like Laba is doing OK. I'm glad to hear that.

This is pretty much where I stand at this point, and I'm still a STH.

I'm not even angry, but it's become increasingly difficult to motivate myself to go to games when the results seem to always be foregone conclusions.

I hope this team is competitive by the time my 18 month old son is able to attend games with me.

OgtheDim
05-26-2013, 09:16 AM
One other thought:

I remember before this season that a TFC that got into the 80th minute down would give up. Nobody would be chasing the ball, there would be no energy, no effort.

This team does not do that.

Even after the second goal, we had a sitter missed by HAll (an O'Dea cross IIRC).


Yes, we suck. But the attitude of the players has changed, for the better.

gate7
05-26-2013, 09:41 AM
because getting slaughtered by Montreal wasn't bad enough

That game was meant to be lost and it wasn't fair for any keeper. Frei's "A" game is unmatched by Bendik. I'd like to give Frei 2 or 3 season games before im ready to right him off

Beach_Red
05-26-2013, 09:55 AM
I am no soccer expert, but anybody watching this team play must quickly form the opinion that mlse has, for 7 years now, utterly failed to assess the competition as the principal factor in player and coaching recruitment. The same idiotic mindset used to select the Luca Cereda's in failed experiments year after year. Instead of building around known commodities (cronin, Dero), we opt for the unknown (too many to mention). Then we are left asking the question; "he played at the very highest level 10 years ago so he must be good", or "he played on the worst team in the English first division but will eat up mls defenders". Frankly, this has almost destroyed fan interest in this city, time to build an mls club in the mls method.

This has been my biggest issue with this team. All I've wanted is a competitve MLS team. That's it. Lots of teams in this league have been getting steadily better, more entertaining, higher technical quality - all the stuff we claim to want. In ten or fifteen years some teams in this league will be really, really good. Why can't we just build the way they have? Why do we have to make these grandiose statements and indulge in these "experiements," and look everywhere else in the world for a model to use instead of right here in the league that's working?

reggie
05-26-2013, 11:37 AM
jus to add to our humour...Amarikwa and yes Sturgis both scored last night.

Richard
05-26-2013, 11:40 AM
^^^ I'm speechless....

trane
05-26-2013, 11:41 AM
The Impact is not build on the MLS method, and they are winning. In season two.

There are many ways to build a solid team, most of them start with a solid defensive base.

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 11:48 AM
The Impact is not build on the MLS method, and they are winning. In season two.

There are many ways to build a solid team, most of them start with a solid defensive base.

Yup.

And they have a foreign coach with no MLS experience.

And they fired their previous coach DESPITE the fact that they had an expansion year where they put up more points than we've ever put up.

They seem to have figured it out a way that works for them. Hopefully we will soon.

reggie
05-26-2013, 11:50 AM
please....can we bring in a LEFT BACK....JEEEEEEZZZ

jimiv
05-26-2013, 11:56 AM
This is exactly how I feel, nobody promised us a playoff team this year, they started with shit and have a bandaid solution this year to at least look competitive.

I started this year going into it knowing it would be hard to watch and that next year is what to look forward to. There does seem to be a plan, and it may take a year to wash the stink off the dressing room.

We need a manager to hang around for more than a year, they fire him now because of fan pressure - TFC ends up starting over and never gets better.

Beach_Red
05-26-2013, 12:05 PM
The Impact is not build on the MLS method, and they are winning. In season two.

There are many ways to build a solid team, most of them start with a solid defensive base.

Sure, but they haven't ignored the MLS model completely, a lot of their roster is made up of MLS players. And they haven't claimed to be trying to bring in a completely foreign system or program. They are doing a lot of what I wish we'd do here - take good stock of exactly where they're situated and what resources they have and build from there.

It is very possible for the same kind of attitude to be developed he in Toronto - in fact that's what most of us think should be happening. I find the discussions silly where people say things like, "No more UK managers," or "more South American players," and things like that. If there's one place that shouldn't care where people are from, it's Toronto. Of course that means that there has to be a strong vision of what's here and what can get built here and that's what we've never had.

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 12:07 PM
Just watched the Nelsen post game presser. The man is delusional.

"It's very frustrating when you put in a performance like that. You outpossess the team, you outshoot the team, on their home field. You go away empty handed. We started slow which is not what we wanted but for 60 minutes of that game we were what we can be. It's frustrating. It's just a tease"

Seriously?

We were awful for the first half. Came out much better in the second half but still weren't good enough. We "out possessed" them by a whopping .7%. I'm pretty sure we were out possessed 65-35 in the first half. So yes, we came back with a better second half but still got nothing to show for it. And we made NE look much better than the mediocre team that they are.

He goes on to say that they've brought players in because they had to because there was nothing here when they got here. And then says that we had 9 players out with injury for the NE game that could have helped.

Who? Koevermans, Eckersley,Convey and............?

Called the performance good and we're very close.

He praised Osorio and then, for the third time, went on to say that it's frustrating because we outplayed them and didn't lose 3-0, or get opened up and that we didn't get smashed.

So fucking bizzarre.

reggie
05-26-2013, 12:08 PM
i with you on that....but im thinking that least we would better on the D side and the set plays have been brutal...the same long throw in....it never works...change it up...you have 25 coaches on staff...

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 12:13 PM
Sure, but they haven't ignored the MLS model completely, a lot of their roster is made up of MLS players. And they haven't claimed to be trying to bring in a completely foreign system or program. They are doing a lot of what I wish we'd do here - take good stock of exactly where they're situated and what resources they have and build from there.

It is very possible for the same kind of attitude to be developed he in Toronto - in fact that's what most of us think should be happening. I find the discussions silly where people say things like, "No more UK managers," or "more South American players," and things like that. If there's one place that shouldn't care where people are from, it's Toronto. Of course that means that there has to be a strong vision of what's here and what can get built here and that's what we've never had.

Agreed about Montreal. I thought we were doing what they're currently doing when Winter was here. But we didn't get anywhere near the results. I wish we'd have kept the philosophy after we got rid of Winter.

As for the multicultural thing....I disagree. Toronto's multiculturalism as a city has no bearing on TFC as a club. We should be implementing a system and philosophy for football success. We can all argue about how to do that but it's clear that TFC has gone the same route as the CSA and footballing in general in this country. The wrong footballing culture and philosophy has been, and continues to be, employed. Time for change is long overdue.

Where a guy learned the game IS important. Not where he's from. His nationality is not important....his philosophy on how the game should look and be played is.

We've just hired a guy who has never coached a day in his life. And look at his footballing pedigree. I'm willing to wait and see what kind of philosophy he employs when he gets the players he needs, but I'm not confident it's going to amount to more than "we need guys with heart and personality".

Not yet at least.

jazzy
05-26-2013, 12:22 PM
Yup.

And they have a foreign coach with no MLS experience.

And they fired their previous coach DESPITE the fact that they had an expansion year where they put up more points than we've ever put up.

They seem to have figured it out a way that works for them. Hopefully we will soon.

maybe they should have backed Winter...instead of knifing him in the back..we're now hoping for his acquisition Koev's to save us

jazzy
05-26-2013, 12:27 PM
please....can we bring in a LEFT BACK....JEEEEEEZZZ

I'd prefer an AM .....Laba made some brilliant passes yesterday....and we have no one to receive them......or simply install Osorio in that position...He will do it some day if not here somewhere else.

jloome
05-26-2013, 12:46 PM
Agreed about Montreal. I thought we were doing what they're currently doing when Winter was here. But we didn't get anywhere near the results. I wish we'd have kept the philosophy after we got rid of Winter.

As for the multicultural thing....I disagree. Toronto's multiculturalism as a city has no bearing on TFC as a club. We should be implementing a system and philosophy for football success. We can all argue about how to do that but it's clear that TFC has gone the same route as the CSA and footballing in general in this country. The wrong footballing culture and philosophy has been, and continues to be, employed. Time for change is long overdue.

Where a guy learned the game IS important. Not where he's from. His nationality is not important....his philosophy on how the game should look and be played is.

We've just hired a guy who has never coached a day in his life. And look at his footballing pedigree. I'm willing to wait and see what kind of philosophy he employs when he gets the players he needs, but I'm not confident it's going to amount to more than "we need guys with heart and personality".

Not yet at least.

Everybody starts somewhere. A seven-year losing franchise might not have been the place to start his. I'm not sure the city or fans can be patient waiting 18 months for him to put all the pieces together.

There are a few key signs I find very troubling.

1. No improvement in possession. We're getting out possessed badly in the first half of most games, constantly employing the exact same wing-based counterattack. And yet the stats clearly show it does not work. It's only when we bring in Osorio or (in earlier games) Silva and retain some time on the ball that we have some success.
2. No change-of-field focus. Ever. Even the worst pro team knows that the best way to create chances is to stretch the width of central defenders and as a whole unbalanace a team to once side or the other, to create space to get shots off. But we never switch field. If we do, it's usually not from fullback to winger, as it should be to advance the play quickly, it's from central midfielder to winger, when we're already in their end, and they can close space much more quickly.
3. Work ethic. Despite people talking about us fighting to the end, that does very little good if you're always second to the ball. I've never seen a team lose so many first balls. It's almost like we're playing dink tennis: waiting for the more talented team to make a mistake to capitalize on. This is not a good strategy in football.
4. Movement. Our movement off the ball is atrocious; there are several NASL teams with better use of channels and space, support play and shifting point of attack. In this league, the tackles come in so hard and fast that knowing where a support player will be and putting the ball into space for him is becoming key. We never do it. Never. Occasionally a talented passer like Osorio or Silva FINDs someone behind their marker, but that's not the same thing.

Look, I get that Rome wasn't built in a day. But for all his supposed off-field intelligence and leadership, I get the same sense of general lack of preparation from Nelsen that I got from Mariner, Carver and Mo. Only Winter and Cummins actually had us moving well tactically. And I think Winter had a host of other issues to deal with, including language, different football culture and a team of people dedicating themselves to sabotaging him.

It may be that in 18 months, Nelsen is actually smart enough to figure out that ALL OF THIS has to be addressed from day one, and made team culture, and that this is much harder that he thought coming in.

But to me, right now our biggest problem isn't the talent we have on the pitch. If I compare us position for position with other teams, we do not -- with a few exceptions --come off dramatically worse than Philly, DC, RSL, Houston, San Jose or Portland. I hate to say this, because I've said all along I'll give him time. But right now, we seem deficiently coached. Again.

The difference this time is we're going to get the 18 months of suffering to see if he figures it out. Because they don't know how to hire, and firing another at this stage would be publicly disastrous.

Mark in Ottawa
05-26-2013, 12:59 PM
Just watched the Nelsen post game presser.
He goes on to say that they've brought players in because they had to because there was nothing here when they got here. And then says that we had 9 players out with injury for the NE game that could have helped.

Who? Koevermans, Eckersley,Convey and............?


Dunfield and Frei come to mind.

jloome
05-26-2013, 01:04 PM
Dunfield and Frei come to mind.

But why, Mark? I think Frei is a good shot stopper and Dunfield an OK anchorman. But Bendink didn't mess up yesterday. Laba didn't mess up yesterday.

In fact, those were the only two competent positions we had on the field.

Yesterday was a tactical mess.

Mark in Ottawa
05-26-2013, 01:09 PM
Was just saying that these may have been a few of the players he had in mind when he mentioned injuries and players who could have helped.
I'm not sure at all that they would have helped or changed the outcome.

ag futbol
05-26-2013, 01:16 PM
And they have a foreign coach with no MLS experience.

I'm starting to wonder if this is becoming less important than it was previously.

People would often point to quirky MLS rules as the reason for the large foreign manager graveyard, but I think it had more to do with the bare-bones nature of the teams and the players on the rosters. It was a very different culture and very different skill level from elsewhere. Now, with the quality of play starting to rise and the amount of resources clubs have increasing, MLS teams are starting to look more like football teams elsewhere which are easier for foreigners to come in and manage.

jloome
05-26-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm starting to wonder if this is becoming less important than it was previously.

People would often point to quirky MLS rules as the reason for the large foreign manager graveyard, but I think it had more to do with the bare-bones nature of the teams and the players on the rosters. It was a very different culture and very different skill level from elsewhere. Now, with the quality of play starting to rise and the amount of resources clubs have increasing, MLS teams are starting to look more like football teams elsewhere which are easier for foreigners to come in and manage.

I hesitate to say it about Montreal as obviously there's no evidence, but the ol' CFL standby of having LOTS of expenses picked up for certain players probably didn't hurt in getting them here. Given what some of the players in Montreal are earning and the much larger amounts that would be required to keep them on most MLS teams, I have a sneaking suspicion Saputo is being creative with the cap.

But your point is certainly valid, at least tactically. Look at portland, playing the 4-3-3 properly ( as a 1-3-2), with channels constantly filled and possession giving them time and space to create chances.

ag futbol
05-26-2013, 01:29 PM
I hesitate to say it about Montreal as obviously there's no evidence, but the ol' CFL standby of having LOTS of expenses picked up for certain players probably didn't hurt in getting them here. Given what some of the players in Montreal are earning and the much larger amounts that would be required to keep them on most MLS teams, I have a sneaking suspicion Saputo is being creative with the cap.

But your point is certainly valid, at least tactically. Look at portland, playing the 4-3-3 properly ( as a 1-3-2), with channels constantly filled and possession giving them time and space to create chances.
I agree, I don't doubt for a second there are clubs in this league that get very aggressive about giving players soft benefits or finding ways around the cap (ex. LAG paid Juninho 40k a year, yeah right). I remember in year 1 when our team was given ipods, zegna suits, and other things. That was widely looked at as something extra, because at the time everybody else was operating bare-bones.

That type of stuff doesn't exist for TFC right now, and it's probably laughable compared to some of the accommodations other clubs are putting up. Doesn't surprise me either, because from everything I've heard MLSE is very cheap about spending money on anything that can't be thrown into a press clipping.

T-boy
05-26-2013, 02:05 PM
Just watched the Nelsen post game presser. The man is delusional.

"It's very frustrating when you put in a performance like that. You outpossess the team, you outshoot the team, on their home field. You go away empty handed. We started slow which is not what we wanted but for 60 minutes of that game we were what we can be. It's frustrating. It's just a tease"

Seriously?

We were awful for the first half. Came out much better in the second half but still weren't good enough. We "out possessed" them by a whopping .7%. I'm pretty sure we were out possessed 65-35 in the first half. So yes, we came back with a better second half but still got nothing to show for it. And we made NE look much better than the mediocre team that they are.

He goes on to say that they've brought players in because they had to because there was nothing here when they got here. And then says that we had 9 players out with injury for the NE game that could have helped.

Who? Koevermans, Eckersley,Convey and............?

Called the performance good and we're very close.

He praised Osorio and then, for the third time, went on to say that it's frustrating because we outplayed them and didn't lose 3-0, or get opened up and that we didn't get smashed.

So fucking bizzarre.

The TFC management just can't do anything right in some fans eyes right now. First Payne "throws players under the bus" and some fans complain that he shouldn't be doing that (thread started on this forum about it). Then Nelson backs them up and is positive, and equally people complain about that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Nelson trying to be externally positive. He may be lambasting the players in the dressing room, who knows?

Either way, the TFC fans are so disallusioned that the management team just can't get anything right, no matter how they play it in the press after the games.

T-boy
05-26-2013, 02:08 PM
About the game - I didn't see a minute of it. But realistically, I never expected a win in this one. Away games points are fairly few and far between in the league, and only the TOP teams in the league even get a semi-regular point haul away from home. TFC needs to be picking up points at home, but away points are only going to be realistic when we are at least a half-way-up-the-league team.

So, am I upset about this one? Not so much, really. TFC need to start getting some points at home and looking like a positive team in front of their home fans. Away points are still a bit of a far off stretch until we get competitive as a home team.

Beach_Red
05-26-2013, 02:17 PM
Agreed about Montreal. I thought we were doing what they're currently doing when Winter was here. But we didn't get anywhere near the results. I wish we'd have kept the philosophy after we got rid of Winter.

As for the multicultural thing....I disagree. Toronto's multiculturalism as a city has no bearing on TFC as a club. We should be implementing a system and philosophy for football success. We can all argue about how to do that but it's clear that TFC has gone the same route as the CSA and footballing in general in this country. The wrong footballing culture and philosophy has been, and continues to be, employed. Time for change is long overdue.

Where a guy learned the game IS important. Not where he's from. His nationality is not important....his philosophy on how the game should look and be played is.

We've just hired a guy who has never coached a day in his life. And look at his footballing pedigree. I'm willing to wait and see what kind of philosophy he employs when he gets the players he needs, but I'm not confident it's going to amount to more than "we need guys with heart and personality".

Not yet at least.

Oh, okay, I didn't realize that, I'm still just learning soccer. I'm used to hockey where countries like Canada, Sewden and Russia produce a wide range of players, everything from stay-at-home defencemen to the flashiest of scorers.

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 02:32 PM
The TFC management just can't do anything right in some fans eyes right now. First Payne "throws players under the bus" and some fans complain that he shouldn't be doing that (thread started on this forum about it). Then Nelson backs them up and is positive, and equally people complain about that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Nelson trying to be externally positive. He may be lambasting the players in the dressing room, who knows?

Either way, the TFC fans are so disallusioned that the management team just can't get anything right, no matter how they play it in the press after the games.

It's kinda strange that you're critical of me being critical of Nelsens comments on a game that you admit you didn't watch one minute of.

You're okay with Nelsen being positive about things that you didn't even see?

You're proving that you don't care what management does. It's all good for you right now because you have no expectations this season?

It's a weird way to approach things. I get people saying that its time to be patient.

I just don't get the "I've written off this year and nothing they do bothers me because I'm all about next year anyway" mentality.

If that's the case then why bother watching them or commenting on them this year if none of it matters?

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 02:40 PM
Oh, okay, I didn't realize that, I'm still just learning soccer. I'm used to hockey where countries like Canada, Sewden and Russia produce a wide range of players, everything from stay-at-home defencemen to the flashiest of scorers.

Not sure if you're being facetious lol

But in case you aren't....

It's not about the kind of player...it's about determining what's important.

To use hockey as an example...several years ago there was a huge debate in Canada about whether or not we're keeping up with places like Russia and Sweden in terms of technical skills and their prominence in the game. Some people were worried that Canada had become too much of a "dump and chase/cycle the puck" nation.

So an emphasis was put more on developing individual skills as much as everything else.

Canadian soccer hasn't done enough of that. And I think it's because the backbone of the Canadian soccer mentality is rooted in a style of play that died years ago. And all we're left with (and addicted to overvaluing) are heart, passion and physical attributes over technical skill.

And the hoofball we've played for so much of this franchises existence shows that the philosophy has bled into TFC.

I still hold out hope that Payne will not continue the trend but his appointment of a coach like Nelsen has me wondering.

Then again, the pursuit of a player like Laba could be a sign of further good things to come.

Time will tell.

T-boy
05-26-2013, 03:09 PM
It's kinda strange that you're critical of me being critical of Nelsens comments on a game that you admit you didn't watch one minute of.

You're okay with Nelsen being positive about things that you didn't even see?

You're proving that you don't care what management does. It's all good for you right now because you have no expectations this season?

It's a weird way to approach things. I get people saying that its time to be patient.

I just don't get the "I've written off this year and nothing they do bothers me because I'm all about next year anyway" mentality.

If that's the case then why bother watching them or commenting on them this year if none of it matters?

I'm sorry, but trying to have a go at a fellow VERY loyal fan is not going to help the current TFC situation. This was the first TFC game I haven't watched live since sometime early last season.

The in fighting between fans drives me nuts sometimes.

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 03:17 PM
I'm sorry, but trying to have a go at a fellow VERY loyal fan is not going to help the current TFC situation. This was the first TFC game I haven't watched live since sometime early last season.

The in fighting between fans drives me nuts sometimes.

I'm not having a go at you. I'm just pointing out that you used my criticism of Nelsens post game comments as a way of showing how some fans think the management can't do anything right. And I'm pointing out that you're being critical of me without having watched the game...so you have no ammo for a rebuttal of my criticism of his comments.

Basically...you're generalizing about me based on a very specific comment I made...a comment that you can't refute because you didn't see the game he thought had gone so well.

I have never, and will never question a supporters loyalty. I've actually had pretty arguments about people who feel that they can or should.

I just don't understand how or why you'd comment on something you didn't see.

ensco
05-26-2013, 03:36 PM
Oh, okay, I didn't realize that, I'm still just learning soccer. I'm used to hockey where countries like Canada, Sewden and Russia produce a wide range of players, everything from stay-at-home defencemen to the flashiest of scorers.

I wouldn't concede that point so quickly. It's exactly like hockey. It's exactly like basketball. There were once huge regional differences but today, not.

Rant alert.

This whole business about soccer being so different, country by country, region by region, a lot of it says more about who is saying it, than the realities. I find these arguments boring,tiresome, and flat out filled with untrue statements. (I'm not singling anyone out, but the distinction between nationality and where a guy learned is equally meaningless, to answer a point made above.)

Tell me, if they didn't wear jerseys, that you could identify what league Swansea, Arsenal, Dortmund or Napoli play in. Brazil and Argentine players now, mostly, look European in style. From the Brazilian league games I have seen snippets of on GolTV, I'm amazed at how much the games look like Euro games. Every player there wants to make the jump to Europe, and plays accordingly.

The game is total football. Around the world. The only differences are the fitness and talent level. Do these people watch EPL games? I don't think so.The English longball thing has been over for 25 years. But there are vocal people here that drone on about it like George Graham still runs Arsenal.

Cruyff said 40 years ago that soccer is about passing, tackling and triangles. Not much has changed. The biggest single influence is fashion aka who is winning Champions League. 5 years ago everybody had to look like Essien and Drogba (ie size and athleticism were all), then being small and technical was the rage (Messi and Xavi), now I guess you need to look like an accountant (g:D Robben and Lewandowski )

Montreal is acquiring better players and is getting better coaching (and maybe are cheating on the cap, I believe that could be true). That's why they are better. Period. There are certainly people from England or the USA or Italy or New Zealand or Swaziland or Finland, or anywhere, that can also play and coach the world game, at this level.

We need to change the subject. Payne and Nelsen and the players are either up to it, or they are not. You can have an "English" team or an "italian" team for marketing purposes (that is a difference between TFC and Montreal), but the idea that one or the other is inherently better? No way.

trane
05-26-2013, 04:08 PM
^ Differences between countries are less pronounced then they were 25 years ago, because of the movement of coaches and players around the world, but do say that there are not different phylosohpies in how the game is played, from country to country, is is simply not true. I watch Serie A, EPL, and Bundesliga and France, I just saw PSG v Llorente. Again are differnces less pronounced yes, are there still differences, most certainly.

This is not too say that for example every team within the league plays the same. Milan has for a long time been a more offensive minded team by Italian standards, as has Napoli, while Juve plays in many ways the more traditional Italian way. HOwever, because in Italy growing up you still learn a certain type of game, defence first attack on the counter, even Milan can hunker down and defend when it needs to ( see 2-0 home victory against Barca). Spain is the same, it is more about possession and offence, Germany attacking but disciplined both way. England is not long ball but it is high tempo more direct.

T-boy
05-26-2013, 04:45 PM
I'm not having a go at you. I'm just pointing out that you used my criticism of Nelsens post game comments as a way of showing how some fans think the management can't do anything right. And I'm pointing out that you're being critical of me without having watched the game...so you have no ammo for a rebuttal of my criticism of his comments.

Basically...you're generalizing about me based on a very specific comment I made...a comment that you can't refute because you didn't see the game he thought had gone so well.

I have never, and will never question a supporters loyalty. I've actually had pretty arguments about people who feel that they can or should.

I just don't understand how or why you'd comment on something you didn't see.

Ah, ok, got it, I understand now.

I wasn't commenting on the game, I was making a comment that the supporters have become so disallusioned that whatever happens with the club, there is a set of supporters who think its a bad decision (ie, Payne dissing the players in public bring anger from some supporters, while Nelson supporting his team brings out anger in another set of supporters). It's got to such an unfortunate state that fans don't agree with ANYTHING the club does, and there is always a faction of fans who think some decision is wrong.

Also, I was generlising about ALL fans, not just yourself, or the comment you made, I just happened to quote your post as a direct polar opposite to what other people were saying about Payne 'throwing players under the bus'.

At this point, because the morale of fans is SO low, I can imagine that IF the team did start winning, some part of the fanbase would still keep complaining about something or other! Maybe its a Toronto sports fan thing too, I've never seen such a "love-to-hate, hate-to-love' type of fanbase in other cities I've lived in. Toronto fans REALLY do hate to love their sports teams! It's like all Toronto fans are in a constant bad-abusive relationship with their partner teams!

69Chevy396
05-26-2013, 04:45 PM
I wouldn't concede that point so quickly. It's exactly like hockey. It's exactly like basketball. There were once huge regional differences but today, not.

Rant alert.

This whole business about soccer being so different, country by country, region by region, a lot of it says more about who is saying it, than the realities. I find these arguments boring,tiresome, and flat out filled with untrue statements. (I'm not singling anyone out, but the distinction between nationality and where a guy learned is equally meaningless, to answer a point made above.)

Tell me, if they didn't wear jerseys, that you could identify what league Swansea, Arsenal, Dortmund or Napoli play in. Brazil and Argentine players now, mostly, look European in style. From the Brazilian league games I have seen snippets of on GolTV, I'm amazed at how much the games look like Euro games. Every player there wants to make the jump to Europe, and plays accordingly.

The game is total football. Around the world. The only differences are the fitness and talent level. Do these people watch EPL games? I don't think so.The English longball thing has been over for 25 years. But there are vocal people here that drone on about it like George Graham still runs Arsenal.

Cruyff said 40 years ago that soccer is about passing, tackling and triangles. Not much has changed. The biggest single influence is fashion aka who is winning Champions League. 5 years ago everybody had to look like Essien and Drogba (ie size and athleticism were all), then being small and technical was the rage (Messi and Xavi), now I guess you need to look like an accountant (g:D Robben and Lewandowski )

Montreal is acquiring better players and is getting better coaching (and maybe are cheating on the cap, I believe that could be true). That's why they are better. Period. There are certainly people from England or the USA or Italy or New Zealand or Swaziland or Finland, or anywhere, that can also play and coach the world game, at this level.

We need to change the subject. Payne and Nelsen and the players are either up to it, or they are not. You can have an "English" team or an "italian" team for marketing purposes (that is a difference between TFC and Montreal), but the idea that one or the other is inherently better? No way.
This makes sense, hard to disagree. So we should view the recruitment of Odea, Calliff, Bostock, Ephrain, Eckersley and others as decisions based on nothing more than talent and availability, where they were picked over like players from therest ofthe football world?

v00d00daddy
05-26-2013, 04:54 PM
I wouldn't concede that point so quickly. It's exactly like hockey. It's exactly like basketball. There were once huge regional differences but today, not.

Rant alert.

This whole business about soccer being so different, country by country, region by region, a lot of it says more about who is saying it, than the realities. I find these arguments boring,tiresome, and flat out filled with untrue statements. (I'm not singling anyone out, but the distinction between nationality and where a guy learned is equally meaningless, to answer a point made above.)

Tell me, if they didn't wear jerseys, that you could identify what league Swansea, Arsenal, Dortmund or Napoli play in. Brazil and Argentine players now, mostly, look European in style. From the Brazilian league games I have seen snippets of on GolTV, I'm amazed at how much the games look like Euro games. Every player there wants to make the jump to Europe, and plays accordingly.

The game is total football. Around the world. The only differences are the fitness and talent level. Do these people watch EPL games? I don't think so.The English longball thing has been over for 25 years. But there are vocal people here that drone on about it like George Graham still runs Arsenal.

Cruyff said 40 years ago that soccer is about passing, tackling and triangles. Not much has changed. The biggest single influence is fashion aka who is winning Champions League. 5 years ago everybody had to look like Essien and Drogba (ie size and athleticism were all), then being small and technical was the rage (Messi and Xavi), now I guess you need to look like an accountant (g:D Robben and Lewandowski )

Montreal is acquiring better players and is getting better coaching (and maybe are cheating on the cap, I believe that could be true). That's why they are better. Period. There are certainly people from England or the USA or Italy or New Zealand or Swaziland or Finland, or anywhere, that can also play and coach the world game, at this level.

We need to change the subject. Payne and Nelsen and the players are either up to it, or they are not. You can have an "English" team or an "italian" team for marketing purposes (that is a difference between TFC and Montreal), but the idea that one or the other is inherently better? No way.

Do you mean to tell me that you don't see differences in hockey in the way Canada plays as opposed to Russia? USA compared to Sweden?

As for the teams you cited (napoli, dortmund, arsenal)...you're right. But that's because they're all top flight teams. And top of their league top flight.

I'll tell you this much though. I would 100% be able to tell the difference a mid table championship side and a mid table serie a team without jerseys. Based solely on how they play.

And I'm saying I'd rather see TFC modelling a mid table Serie B/Bundesliga 2/Segunda team over a mid table championship team. I'd rather they value the things that those leagues value as opposed to the Championship.

Soccer, at TFC's level is not all the same.

Beach_Red
05-26-2013, 05:09 PM
This makes sense, hard to disagree. So we should view the recruitment of Odea, Calliff, Bostock, Ephrain, Eckersley and others as decisions based on nothing more than talent and availability, where they were picked over like players from therest ofthe football world?

And availability is probably the key. For the first few years of its existence, TFC had a very cozy relationship with one player agency (the same agency repped the GM and many players, I guess that's legal and for all I know it's common) - that likely had more to do with receuitment than anything else. That's likely changed but has TFC developed much more of a network anywhere else?

69Chevy396
05-26-2013, 05:28 PM
And availability is probably the key. For the first few years of its existence, TFC had a very cozy relationship with one player agency (the same agency repped the GM and many players, I guess that's legal and for all I know it's common) - that likely had more to do with receuitment than anything else. That's likely changed but has TFC developed much more of a network anywhere else?
Who knows. I realize supporters havea strong affinity with UK football, and that is a good thing. But no excuse for recruiting overrated players who like the managers from the same country, stumble and fail once in north america. Bostock was/is a bust, but unlike Mista, he was known by mgmt to be a washed out talent before recruited-that is the crux of my argument. These crap players are not unknown commodities but are foisted upon us nevertheless.

ensco
05-26-2013, 05:35 PM
Do you mean to tell me that you don't see differences in hockey in the way Canada plays as opposed to Russia? USA compared to Sweden?

I'll tell you this much though. I would 100% be able to tell the difference a mid table championship side and a mid table serie a team without jerseys. Based solely on how they play.

Soccer, at TFC's level is not all the same.

Disagree. The differences between the teams you mention are tiny, things only the connoisseur sees.

I draw the opposite conclusion. The tiny differences matter in building chemistry at the elite level. Not so for a team flailing in MLS. Talent is talent.

ensco
05-26-2013, 05:39 PM
So we should view the recruitment of Odea, Calliff, Bostock, Ephrain, Eckersley and others as decisions based on nothing more than talent and availability, where they were picked over like players from therest ofthe football world?

This is 100% how I see it.

The decision to do so many short-term/loan deals was risky. We shouldn't be surprised to see it failing. Speaks to how desperate TFC's situation is in the market for talent.

burlington Red
05-26-2013, 06:09 PM
we go to a nation synonoumus with flair and skillful footballers, and we come back with a sideways passing DP, couldn't we have got that a lot cheaper over here. Mo was heavily criticised for his south american foray a few yrs back, he came back with nothing, Nelsen has come back with a safe sideways passing footballer on a bumper wage

Beach_Red
05-26-2013, 06:55 PM
This is 100% how I see it.

The decision to do so many short-term/loan deals was risky. We shouldn't be surprised to see it failing. Speaks to how desperate TFC's situation is in the market for talent.

How much does this say about TFC's real problem - failing to build a core of domestic players? Sure Montreal has some good internationals but they also have guys like Bernier and Arnaud. And, as we have to see every week, other MLS teams are doing pretty well with domestic players TFC didn't bother to keep.

So really, whatever aspect of team building we look at we're disappointed, well it can only get better, right ;).

notthesun
05-26-2013, 08:27 PM
we go to a nation synonoumus with flair and skillful footballers, and we come back with a sideways passing DP, couldn't we have got that a lot cheaper over here. Mo was heavily criticised for his south american foray a few yrs back, he came back with nothing, Nelsen has come back with a safe sideways passing footballer on a bumper wage

Laba has shown his passing range and ability already. I've noticed him to be fairly successful on more difficult passes. If you think he's strictly sideways passing I don't think you've been watching very carefully. Yesterday he had a great touch to escape his man and played a perfect through ball to someone (can't remember who) on the right flank, and he crossed it low towards Earnshaw but behind him. But the pass set up the whole chance. There was also an instance where he got the ball after a cross just inside the outer corner of the box on the right and all our players were standing static in the middle. There was really nothing on for him but he spotted Earnshaw making a back post run and played a nice chip over the defense. If Earnshaw was taller or if it was Koevermans we'd have probably gotten a good chance out of it.

What you get for cheaper over here is Terry Dunfield. Big difference.

ag futbol
05-26-2013, 09:20 PM
Ozzie Alonso, Diego Charra, Roger Espinoza (formerly), the list goes on. You control the middle of the park in MLS you win the game. It’s damn worth the money to have a guy who has a big motor, clobbers the other team’s attackers, and can make that first past to link play. One of those guys earns DP money, all of them are worth DP money in this league.

I'm just going to repost what was in the Laba thread a couple weeks ago:

Disclaimer: both these posts contain sarcasm.


You inevitably know some naive jackass will come on this board and complain about him not scoring goals after ten games, regardless of how he plays.



but... but... he's Argentinian! he must be creative and have ability to score goals! and he's a DP! TFC shouldn't be wasting a DP spot on a DM! even though we have 3 and still have one more spot! Fire Kevin Payne! he's worse than track suit Mariner! And Nelsen is clueless!

BuSaPuNk
05-26-2013, 09:21 PM
Thanks for bringing some real good points to this. Laba paired with a destroyer AM would be a great pairing.

jloome
05-26-2013, 09:39 PM
Thanks for bringing some real good points to this. Laba paired with a destroyer AM would be a great pairing.

This. We need some experience in the midfield. A Higuain or Juninho-style two-way mid with lots of offensive punch. Osorio might be this eventually, but these young guy need quality experience to learn from.

DoubleUp
05-26-2013, 10:17 PM
@Trane your post on the differences is spot on.



Alot of you have made good arguments on both sides, but where the players come from is not a huge problem the real problem is the managers pedigree and football philosophy.

Greatest Ripoff
05-26-2013, 10:33 PM
Ozzie Alonso, Diego Charra, Roger Espinoza (formerly), the list goes on. You control the middle of the park in MLS you win the game. It’s damn worth the money to have a guy who has a big motor, clobbers the other team’s attackers, and can make that first past to link play. One of those guys earns DP money, all of them are worth DP money in this league.

I'm just going to repost what was in the Laba thread a couple weeks ago:

Disclaimer: both these posts contain sarcasm.

Good to see I am not alone on this.