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View Full Version : 2007 vs 2008 the half way point



olegunnar
07-18-2008, 11:51 AM
Since it's the halfway point and since I've noticed a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that this years team is light years ahead of last years team (especially the yay Carver stuff) I thought I'd compare them (numbers, not appearances)

So after 15 games:

2007
5-3-7 for 18 pts and a -6 GD
18 Goals for 24 Goals Against
8 road games 7 home games


2008
6-3-6 for 21 pts and a -1 GD
19 goals for 20 goals against
7 road games and 8 home games.


Not much difference is there? You could also argue that with the extra home game we've had in 2008 vs 2007 we might actually be the same as last year.

rocker
07-18-2008, 12:00 PM
good comparison.. one of the things I said many times in the past is last year's team was a decent team with Ronnie O and the boys, until the Aston Villa game, when the injuries started to hit and the depth wasn't there. But most people looked just at the final record and thought THAT team played the whole season.

How many games have been lost to injuries and international callups this season?

egoodwin
07-18-2008, 12:19 PM
remember also last year we were on a run before July came, wins against Houston, FCD, Chicago, etc had our hopes up and we were talking playoffs... then came July's game against Chicago with the 2-1 loss there and it all went down hill

similar situation this year with another 2-1 loss to Chicago in early/mid july... hopefully the goals still come

giambac
07-18-2008, 12:20 PM
Since it's the halfway point and since I've noticed a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that this years team is light years ahead of last years team (especially the yay Carver stuff) I thought I'd compare them (numbers, not appearances)

So after 15 games:

2007
5-3-7 for 18 pts and a -3 GD
18 Goals for 21 Goals Against
8 road games 7 home games


2008
6-3-6 for 21 pts and a -1 GD
19 goals for 20 goals against
7 road games and 8 home games.


Not much difference is there? You could also argue that with the extra home game we've had in 2008 vs 2007 we might actually be the same as last year.

Oh where oh where are all you Carver lovers

Better players this year yet not much better record. Becuse Carver doesn't knwo how to use them.. How much more facts do you need.

7 games and counting......thanks to carver

Oh where or where are all you Carver lovers?

Oh where oh where are all you Carver lovers???????????

CanadaLFC
07-18-2008, 12:26 PM
I am a Carver lover, and I am right here. I still believe the quality of play is better this season than it was at any point last season. Carver knows what he is doing, he might not have the available resources(striker), but things will get better. We've lost only once at BMO, could you have said that last season at this point? The thing that is killing us is our away form and once again when we sign some decent players I think we should be okay. An improvement over last year will do for me. That and enough with the fire Carver already, you're getting boring.

Nodoubtguy
07-18-2008, 12:28 PM
Well I think if we can keep pace with our first half, our final record will be much improved over 2007....

Carts
07-18-2008, 12:29 PM
Oh where oh where are all you Carver lovers

Better players this year yet not much better record. Becuse Carver doesn't knwo how to use them.. How much more facts do you need.

7 games and counting......thanks to carver

Oh where or where are all you Carver lovers?

Oh where oh where are all you Carver lovers???????????

RIGHT HERE!

He's doing a fine job with a 2nd year franchise...

I don't think we'll see the disaster stretch like last year... I think we'll finish with a better record, and I think we'll improve again next year...

And, with Carver as coach, Mo has more time and energy to focus on bringing in players...

Win - Win in my books...

Again, Carver lover - RIGHT HERE... Is he perfect, no, but nobody is...

Carts...

giambac
07-18-2008, 12:32 PM
RIGHT HERE!

He's doing a fine job with a 2nd year franchise...

I don't think we'll see the disaster stretch like last year... I think we'll finish with a better record, and I think we'll improve again next year...

And, with Carver as coach, Mo has more time and energy to focus on bringing in players...

Win - Win in my books...

Again, Carver lover - RIGHT HERE... Is he perfect, no, but nobody is...

Carts...

I don't know if you noticed but the disater stretch has already started. TFC hasn't won in their past 7 games
3 MLS
2 CC games and 2 friendlies

Mo has brought in probaly the best midfield in the MLS which we didn't have last year so Carver has way more to play with than what Mo had last year...

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 12:34 PM
I agree that last year the team was pretty good in May and June then fell off the map.

My point is we can go by only what we know. Who's to say with International absences (WCQ and Olympics) that we won't have the same late summer swoon we had last year? BUT Who's to say we won't sign a DP and then tear up the league for the rest of the year? Either side can't say with certainty what will happen unless they're related to Miss Cleo

All we can honestly judge is what's actually happened and that is the first 15 games of the year.

I respect that people can be glass half full and some can be glass half empty. However based on facts I think it's dishonest and disingenuous to keep repeating that the 2008 team is far better than the 2007 team because from what we can compare, they aren't.

It's the nature of the internet that the more something gets repeated the more likelihood the mob will accept it as fact.

Facts say it's not true. You are what you are, and right now we're marginally if at all better than we were at this point last year.

Damien
07-18-2008, 12:34 PM
Let's see if we can keep the injuries to a minimum from here on in... that's what decimated us last year.

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 12:36 PM
Let's see if we can keep the injuries to a minimum from here on in... that's what decimated us last year.


It could be postulated though the what injuries were for us in 2007, international call ups will be for us in 2008

giambac
07-18-2008, 12:42 PM
I agree that last year the team was pretty good in May and June then fell off the map.

My point is we can go by only what we know. Who's to say with International absences (WCQ and Olympics) that we won't have the same late summer swoon we had last year? BUT Who's to say we won't sign a DP and then tear up the league for the rest of the year? Either side can't say with certainty what will happen unless they're related to Miss Cleo

All we can honestly judge is what's actually happened and that is the first 15 games of the year.

I respect that people can be glass half full and some can be glass half empty. However based on facts I think it's dishonest and disingenuous to keep repeating that the 2008 team is far better than the 2007 team because from what we can compare, they aren't.

It's the nature of the internet that the more something gets repeated the more likelihood the mob will accept it as fact.

Facts say it's not true. You are what you are, and right now we're marginally if at all better than we were at this point last year.

Oh where oh where is Jloome
Oh where oH wher is shangou
Oh Where oh where is oldtimer

OH where Oh where are you Carver lovers.

Not much better record than last year even though we have another year under our belts, even though Mo has brought in one of the best midfields in the league (Guevera,RR,Robert).

You guys say I'm not a supporter. I am 6 Season tickets but I won't kiss ass to our coach just because he is our coach.


I would say this year may even be worse than last year at this point in the season.

Fuck, olegunner you haven't even factored a losss and tie to a USL team.

All Carver has to say is we need a striker. Fuck we had no striker last year and no solid palyers last year compared to this year. Just stop with your excuses and coach or at least enriol in a 101 coaching course.

rocker
07-18-2008, 12:42 PM
It could be postulated though the what injuries were for us in 2007, international call ups will be for us in 2008

so far we've had more missed games due to callups than we had injuries up to the aston villa match last year.

in many ways that fact shows the greater depth and perhaps a better coaching approach this year. If last year's team had lost so many players for callups in the first part of the season they'd probably not have had 18 points at mid season.

One also can't take TFC out of context. Last year's team can't be compared to this year's team when all the other teams in the league made additions and subtractions. In many ways, other teams have gotten stronger as well. You take this year's team, without the callups of this season, and with John Carver and his coaching staff, and put it in 2007, and they could be higher.

too many hypotheticals really...

nimamalek
07-18-2008, 12:46 PM
I don't know if you noticed but the disater stretch has already started. TFC hasn't won in their past 7 games
3 MLS
2 CC games and 2 friendlies

Mo has brought in probaly the best midfield in the MLS which we didn't have last year so Carver has way more to play with than what Mo had last year...

the 2 friendlies cant even be considered, both Vancouver games we were very unlucky, not even close to the same thing as last year. Wins this weekend and on Tuesday and everything will be back on track

giambac
07-18-2008, 12:48 PM
Since it's the halfway point and since I've noticed a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that this years team is light years ahead of last years team (especially the yay Carver stuff) I thought I'd compare them (numbers, not appearances)

So after 15 games:

2007
5-3-7 for 18 pts and a -3 GD
18 Goals for 21 Goals Against
8 road games 7 home games


2008
6-3-6 for 21 pts and a -1 GD
19 goals for 20 goals against
7 road games and 8 home games.


Not much difference is there? You could also argue that with the extra home game we've had in 2008 vs 2007 we might actually be the same as last year.


Olegunner,

I must say this is the best thread posted.

Why? Becasue it doesn't lie. It isn't based on personal opininions which can vary amonst viewers/supporters.

It is based on facts and facts don't lie.

As much as people say we are lights ahead of last year, the comparison shows at this point it is comparable.

I know we went into a bad slide last season and I hope it doesn't happen again but I am getting very concerned with the way we have been playing in our last 7 games.

Also the injuries are starting to creep up like last year (teliby, Dicchio), still no striker, and there we be several international call ups during the last part of the season.

Oh how I wish we had those 2 points from the KC game??????

ThunderTundra
07-18-2008, 12:48 PM
So I guess we should fire the coaches every year until we win the championship? and then if we come only second the year after, we'll fire that coach too? we need some stability, its our teams second year in existence, just about every USL team has more than that on us, and our "best midfield in the league" was mostly acquired this season. Give the team some time to find its feet. I think its doing so now, we are loosing players to injury and international duty this year and not wondering if the fans will be called from the stands to fill in the gaps!! That alone means we are in better shape. If we end the year exactly where we ended last year but we gain depth and the ability to hang in, then I won't be so dissapointed.

I too am a Carver Lover, he's our coach, and he's working with what he has.

giambac
07-18-2008, 12:52 PM
the 2 friendlies cant even be considered, both Vancouver games we were very unlucky, not even close to the same thing as last year. Wins this weekend and on Tuesday and everything will be back on track

I hope myour right.

I have my fingers crossed for tomorrow's and Tuesady games.

Our season is on the line........

McBrace
07-18-2008, 12:55 PM
Oh how I wish we had those 2 points from the KC game??????


How are you so sure we would have won that game even with the YOUR starting 11?

You can't, plain and simple. We have lost with your starting 11, have we not?

Firing the coach is not the answer!

All the answers, but yet you sit in the stands with everyone else!

coisty1966
07-18-2008, 12:58 PM
Well I think if we can keep pace with our first half, our final record will be much improved over 2007....

have to agree there.....although the stats show we are pretty close to last season record wise....last year, game 16 through 24 had the boys not even scoring a single goal!......cant see the same happening this year.....if we equal our first half, that would put us say the 42 point mark....that should get us in the playoffs around the bottom....

jayeden
07-18-2008, 01:02 PM
Since it's the halfway point and since I've noticed a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that this years team is light years ahead of last years team (especially the yay Carver stuff) I thought I'd compare them (numbers, not appearances)

So after 15 games:

2007
5-3-7 for 18 pts and a -3 GD
18 Goals for 21 Goals Against
8 road games 7 home games


2008
6-3-6 for 21 pts and a -1 GD
19 goals for 20 goals against
7 road games and 8 home games.


Not much difference is there? You could also argue that with the extra home game we've had in 2008 vs 2007 we might actually be the same as last year.

Important: We also have to keep in mind we have played an additional 3 games (1-1-1) against Montreal and Vancover, soon to be 4.

giambac
07-18-2008, 01:05 PM
How are you so sure we would have won that game even with the YOUR starting 11?

You can't, plain and simple. We have lost with your starting 11, have we not?

Firing the coach is not the answer!

All the answers, but yet you sit in the stands with everyone else!

I sit in the stansds becasue I want them to win

Sure there is no gaurantees that you will win with your best 11 but your odds do improve especially since we were playing KC who was struggling. Also I new our next match was on the road against a very tough New England team and thats why he should have had the best players on vs KC to improve our chances of winning.

I also didn't like his player selections vs Vancouver when they beat us at BMO. Fuck Carver made 3 players substitutes at half time (I've never seen this in my life). Carver admitted himself he screwed up.

I also disagree with having RR on the bench last week vs Chicago to start the game.

iIalso disagree with him sitting out Sutton in various games.

You are correct there is no guarantees in sport but the odds are better if you start your best players. I think Carver finally realizes this given that we have slipped in the standings (1 point out of last place) and there is a risk that we may not win the CC.

I have to believe Carver won't make the same mistakes especially in the next 2 games with so much on the line....

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 01:05 PM
so far we've had more missed games due to callups than we had injuries up to the aston villa match last year.

in many ways that fact shows the greater depth and perhaps a better coaching approach this year. If last year's team had lost so many players for callups in the first part of the season they'd probably not have had 18 points at mid season.

One also can't take TFC out of context. Last year's team can't be compared to this year's team when all the other teams in the league made additions and subtractions. In many ways, other teams have gotten stronger as well. You take this year's team, without the callups of this season, and with John Carver and his coaching staff, and put it in 2007, and they could be higher.

too many hypotheticals really...

Honestly, I agree.
My opinion, is that we'll struggle a bit in the 2nd half, but not as bad as we did last year, and we'll compete for a wildcard spot.
I also believe that we as as supporters over rate some of our coaches and players and the team as a whole. Those are my opinions! not facts.

My point is not to say fire Carver, or predict doom and gloom, it was to get people talking and thinking about facts a bit more rather than impressions.

It's easy to sit here and say...wow we're better than last year...or player x is better on paper than player y...but that means nothing.

As Bill Parcells was famous for saying...you are what you are. Right now we're not much better than we were last year.

Hopefully if we do this exercise after 20 games, or 25 games we will be better than we were last year, but after 15 games we aren't.

CretanBull
07-18-2008, 01:08 PM
It is based on facts and facts don't lie.


Facts don't lie, but without context they are meaningless. That's probably too complicated for you to understand though....

jayeden
07-18-2008, 01:09 PM
^ we are 1 point out of last with a game in hand - a win saturday and were tied for 3rd in the conference..the east is strong, the west is not...you really cannot read too much into the standings at this point, 1st place NE is 6 points up with 2 games in hand, so really 2 wins and we are tied for first with the same amount of games played..

lets talk about this in a month

trane
07-18-2008, 01:09 PM
The only thing that I would say that this time last year, we also though we could compete for a playoff spot, it was after this point that everything went south. I have to say though I am very frustrated with inability to take points on the road.

Oldtimer
07-18-2008, 01:09 PM
You guys say I'm not a supporter. I am 6 Season tickets but I won't kiss ass to our coach just because he is our coach.


I know what you are, a SCALPER!!!!

McBrace
07-18-2008, 01:10 PM
I sit in the stansds becasue I want them to win

Sure there is no gaurantees that you will win with your best 11 but your odds do improve especially since we were playing KC who was struggling. Also I new our next match was on the road against a very tough New England team and thats why he should have had the best players on vs KC to improve our chances of winning.

I also didn't like his player selections vs Vancouver when they beat us at BMO. Fuck Carver made 3 players substitutes at half time (I've never seen this in my life). Carver admitted himself he screwed up.

I also disagree with having RR on the bench last week vs Chicago to start the game.

iIalso disagree with him sitting out Sutton in various games.

You are correct there is no guarantees in sport but the odds are better if you start your best players. I think Carver finally realizes this given that we have slipped in the standings (1 point out of last place) and there is a risk that we may not win the CC.

I have to believe Carver won't make the same mistakes especially in the next 2 games with so much on the line....


So if he's made a mistake while doing his job, does he not get a chance to keep going and make it right?

Surely you've made a mistake at your job? ( assuming your employed) Did you think at the time your boss should fire you on the spot, without giving you the chance to make it right? If not, please feel free to identify your mistake and your bosses number so I can pass along your views!

giambac
07-18-2008, 01:12 PM
Honestly, I agree.
My opinion, is that we'll struggle a bit in the 2nd half, but not as bad as we did last year, and we'll compete for a wildcard sport.
I also believe that we as as supporters over rate some of our coaches and players and the team as a whole. Those are my opinions! not facts.

My point is not to say fire Carver, or predict doom and gloom, it was to get people talking and thinking about facts a bit more rather than impressions.

It's easy to sit here and say...wow we're better than last year...or player x is better on paper than player y...but that means nothing.

As Bill Parcells was famous for saying...you are what you are. Right now we're not much better than we were last year.

Hopefully if we do this exercise after 20 games, or 25 games we will be better than we were last year, but after 15 games we aren't.

Jloome
Shangou
Oldtimer

Facts speak they don't lie. We all have opinions. debate the facts. Your opinions may be right or wrong, my opinions may be right or wrong. there is no right or wrong in opinions.

However if your going to argue your points you should have facts to support it

RedsYNWA
07-18-2008, 01:15 PM
Next 2 games are crucial we need the next two wins if we can't beat San Jose and Montreal at home we truly are SHITE

CanadaLFC
07-18-2008, 01:15 PM
FACT: Our record is currently better than last year
FACT: We have only lost once at home
FACT: We play a better quality of football
FACT: We have more depth in our roster
FACT: WE have had more fixtures this season, so fatigue is an issue
FACT: We have been in a play-off spot for most of the season

giambac
07-18-2008, 01:16 PM
I know what you are, a SCALPER!!!!

Quite the opposite.

There are many on this forum who will tell you I have given tickets away at cost, below cost and at times at no charge.

I purchased 6 seasons for my family and friend. at times do to personal committments I can't attend so I have offered them to TFc suportrs on this Forum at very reasonable prices.

definelty not a scalper

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 01:22 PM
FACT: Our record is currently better than last year
FACT: We have only lost once at home

agreed


FACT: We play a better quality of football

not a fact, an opinion.


FACT: We have more depth in our roster

on paper yes. haven't seen it in a meaningful game yet so I'm not sure we can rely on this "depth"


FACT: WE have had more fixtures this season, so fatigue is an issue

True about the fixture count. The fatigue comment is moot. We're not the only team in the league involved in outside tournaments. In fact we could consider ourselves lucky we're not in Superliga as well.


FACT: We have been in a play-off spot for most of the season

That's true as well. I'd hope though we'd have better expectations for the club than that.

coisty1966
07-18-2008, 01:23 PM
FACT: Our record is currently better than last year
FACT: We have only lost once at home
FACT: We play a better quality of football
FACT: We have more depth in our roster
FACT: WE have had more fixtures this season, so fatigue is an issue
FACT: We have been in a play-off spot for most of the season


more facts: we actually conceded 24 goals after 15 games last year not 21 as stated

more facts 6 claen sheets in 15 games to date...2 last year at this point and 5 last year in total

all round we are better......but still need to take points on the road thats a given

Carts
07-18-2008, 01:23 PM
I'll be the first to admit I really like John Carver as a coach... I will also be the first to admit that I HATE the 'not starting players after they miss due to intl duty' stuff...

But Giambac, your posts are starting to sound like a personal vendetta or personal mission to undermine a person, a coach, and a professional to spread as much negative thoughts, opinions, feelings etc about him...

Olegunner started this thread with a very professional, statistical post about where the team is...

6 minutes later you start calling out posters who have defended Carver in the past. Here's a tip - we're all not on the boards all the time...

Post your thoughts, but don't continue to tumble into childish gibberish your anti-Carver posts are becoming... Make your points (we're all entitled to them - it's the beauty of the board)...

Carts...

ExiledRed
07-18-2008, 01:25 PM
Hmmm, lets talk about this shall we. It's funny, cause I was going to start this thread with the same title but a completely different outlook

2007 v 2008

a) Road games.

We might not be winning them, but we are scoring, and playing to the end. Most of our losses have been close matches as opposed to humiliating defeats, like we experienced last year. I am enjoying watching these games 10x more than last year, and going a goal down in the first half doesnt necessarily make defeat inevitable.
Oh, and if we were only ever going to win one of these this season, nobody would have expected it to be against Becks and Donovan, nor for it to be a 5 goal thriller.


b) home games.

We havent lost an MLS one yet. last year we lost our first one, and a bunch more.

c) standings.

We havent started at the bottom and stayed there. Last year we never got into a playoff spot and never had to worry about losing it, because we never got there. We are currently 12 points behind the leaders with 2 games in hand. Other than the Revs who are running away (With 2 extra games under their belt) everybody else in the league are much closer. If we win both of our next games (san Jose, RSL) we will be only 1 point behind columbus who also have two games over us.

Currently we hold the last playoff spot, with only 15 games to the average 16.

d) plan B

Last year, if a plan wasn't working, well that was too fuckin' bad. The team fell apart and the opposition would exploit our inability to adapt to the maximum.
This year we have a plan B, you all saw it beiung passed around by Robbo in Chicago.

This is important, after we 'reshuffled' we left Chicago scrambling to adapt to us, and we very nearly got that point. Last year would have been a whitewash.

e) the players

Theyre better (mostly) and they play together better, no questions asked. the goalkeeping issue is npo longer a real issue, we have a good back up and a good starter, and they are easily rotatable.

f) injuries, suspensions and player call ups.

These are not impacting our team in the way they did last year, we have options other than to field a bunch of kid and hope for the best.

Just to add a different perspective.

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 01:26 PM
more facts: we actually conceded 24 goals after 15 games last year not 21 as stated



You're absolutely right.
In my defense it wasn't on purpose. I was manually counting the goals using this page as a reference.
I'll edit my original post.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/results?id=7318&season=2007&cc=5901&_league=all

coisty1966
07-18-2008, 01:34 PM
You're absolutely right.
In my defense it wasn't on purpose. I was manually counting the goals using this page as a reference.
I'll edit my original post.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/results?id=7318&season=2007&cc=5901&_league=all


hey no worries mate!!! i keep an excel spreadsheet of all results and stats....yeah yeah...TFC nerd here!;)

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 01:38 PM
Hmmm, lets talk about this shall we. It's funny, cause I was going to start this thread with the same title but a completely different outlook

2007 v 2008

a) Road games.

We might not be winning them, but we are scoring, and playing to the end. Most of our losses have been close matches as opposed to humiliating defeats, like we experienced last year. I am enjoying watching these games 10x more than last year, and going a goal down in the first half doesnt necessarily make defeat inevitable.
Oh, and if we were only ever going to win one of these this season, nobody would have expected it to be against Becks and Donovan, nor for it to be a 5 goal thriller.


b) home games.

We havent lost an MLS one yet. last year we lost our first one, and a bunch more.

c) standings.

We havent started at the bottom and stayed there. Last year we never got into a playoff spot and never had to worry about losing it, because we never got there. We are currently 12 points behind the leaders with 2 games in hand. Other than the Revs who are running away (With 2 extra games under their belt) everybody else in the league are much closer. If we win both of our next games (san Jose, RSL) we will be only 1 point behind columbus who also have two games over us.

Currently we hold the last playoff spot, with only 15 games to the average 16.

d) plan B

Last year, if a plan wasn't working, well that was too fuckin' bad. The team fell apart and the opposition would exploit our inability to adapt to the maximum.
This year we have a plan B, you all saw it beiung passed around by Robbo in Chicago.

This is important, after we 'reshuffled' we left Chicago scrambling to adapt to us, and we very nearly got that point. Last year would have been a whitewash.

e) the players

Theyre better (mostly) and they play together better, no questions asked. the goalkeeping issue is npo longer a real issue, we have a good back up and a good starter, and they are easily rotatable.

f) injuries, suspensions and player call ups.

These are not impacting our team in the way they did last year, we have options other than to field a bunch of kid and hope for the best.

Just to add a different perspective.

With all due respect, I think the 2nd half of the season fiscao is still fresh in your mind.
Last year that this point we'd had 3 blow outs. 0-4 and 0-3 to NER and 0-3 to KC. 2 of those came in our first 3 games.
This year we've had 2 blow outs already 0-4 to DC and 1-3 to Houston.

As some others have said around this time last year we were playing pretty well and were within 1-3 pts of the playoffs. At this point last year we weren't bad and had just finished a 4 game stretch on the road where we'd gone 1-3-0

I think you make a very good point about the Goaltending situation. It's vastly improved this year.

Still I wonder, how much of the "good feelings" about 2008 are based on the difference between now and August and Sept of 2007 which were brutal!.

If you compare our form now to that of May/June/early July of 2007 I think it's a bit closer.

RedsYNWA
07-18-2008, 01:41 PM
If we get smoked by San Jose will the Boo Birds come out HHHHHHMMMMM

Velvet Elvis
07-18-2008, 02:43 PM
2007 v 2008

a) Road games.

We might not be winning them, but we are scoring, and playing to the end. Most of our losses have been close matches as opposed to humiliating defeats, like we experienced last year. I am enjoying watching these games 10x more than last year, and going a goal down in the first half doesnt necessarily make defeat inevitable.


When I read this it brings to mind the overall fitness level of the club, vastly improved from last year with the addition of Paul Winsper as the conditioning coach. The LA Galaxy away game is a fantastic example, even in the heat our lads are not tiring as fast, there is gas left in the tank in the last minutes.

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 02:46 PM
When we go a goal down in the league we're 0 wins and 0 draws and 6 losses
The white caps game is the first one this year in all competitions that we've gotten a result after giving up the first goal

giambac
07-18-2008, 02:50 PM
When we go a goal down in the league we're 0 wins and 0 draws and 6 losses
The white caps game is the first one this year in all competitions that we've gotten a result after giving up the first goal

Needless to say that the first goal tomorrow and on Tuesday is very important.

invictusTFC
07-18-2008, 02:52 PM
Oh where oh where are all you Carver lovers

Better players this year yet not much better record. Becuse Carver doesn't knwo how to use them.. How much more facts do you need.

7 games and counting......thanks to carver

Oh where or where are all you Carver lovers?

Oh where oh where are all you Carver lovers???????????

You're an idiot, while the team was healthy last season, it was competitive. However once the injuries hit around mid-season, the team crashed and burned. This teams lack of depth was exposed.
This years team is far better. It has more depth, it is in better shape, and it is better coached. I do not expect this team to spiral to the depths of the standings this season like they did last. Every team in this league goes through a dry spell at some point in the season. TFC seems to be experiencing it now. The team will recover because it has enough quality and depth.
I believe the team's biggest problem is their inability to score with any sort of consistency. Everyone, from fans to management, to the coaching staff knows this team needs a striker and I think there is something in the works. Don't blame everything on Carver cuz the last time I checked he's not the one out there giving the ball away, missing easy goal scoring chances or shitting the bed defensively.
We've lost games during this stretch because of individual errors, giveaways, and defensive meltdowns, not because of tactical errors.

Fort York Redcoat
07-18-2008, 03:05 PM
Giambac is NOT a scalper.

He's Cathal Kelly.

giambac
07-18-2008, 03:09 PM
You're an idiot, while the team was healthy last season, it was competitive. However once the injuries hit around mid-season, the team crashed and burned. This teams lack of depth was exposed.
This years team is far better. It has more depth, it is in better shape, and it is better coached. I do not expect this team to spiral to the depths of the standings this season like they did last. Every team in this league goes through a dry spell at some point in the season. TFC seems to be experiencing it now. The team will recover because it has enough quality and depth.
I believe the team's biggest problem is their inability to score with any sort of consistency. Everyone, from fans to management, to the coaching staff knows this team needs a striker and I think there is something in the works. Don't blame everything on Carver cuz the last time I checked he's not the one out there giving the ball away, missing easy goal scoring chances or shitting the bed defensively.
We've lost games during this stretch because of individual errors, giveaways, and defensive meltdowns, not because of tactical errors.

Your right.

Professional players shouldn't be making these mistakes over and over again. Coach has to take some of the blame if they continue to make the same errors.

It seems the team always starts slow and especially gives up a goal early in the game on the road. It's as if they aren't up for the game or mentality prepared or going into the road games with no confidence. Carver has to work on this.

I don't have the stats in front of me - Olegunner do you know how many early goals they have given up either early (first 10 minutes of a game) and late in the first half on the road. I would be interested in this stat. It would tell you alot about how prepared they are mentally for the games

invictusTFC
07-18-2008, 03:26 PM
Your right.

Professional players shouldn't be making these mistakes over and over again. Coach has to take some of the blame if they continue to make the same errors.

It seems the team always starts slow and especially gives up a goal early in the game on the road. It's as if they aren't up for the game or mentality prepared or going into the road games with no confidence. Carver has to work on this.

I don't have the stats in front of me - Olegunner do you know how many early goals they have given up either early (first 10 minutes of a game) and late in the first half on the road. I would be interested in this stat. It would tell you alot about how prepared they are mentally for the games

Although I agree that motivating players is part of coaching, it becomes less of a focal point in the professional ranks. Professional players need to be self motivated, and if they're not (Erm, erm... Cunny), they need to get shipped out. At this level Carvers job is to prepare the team tactically for each game. Maybe its just me, but I see a vast improvement from a year ago
That being said, is JC the best tactician in this league. The answer is no. He has been out coached in a few games this season, but I'm not ready to call for his scalp just yet. I like his up front and straight-forward nature. He seems very accessible to both the media and the fans. He seems pretty genuine and passionate about this team. He called out his players after the Vancouver game which IMO was their worst showing of the season.
I'll agree with you on one of your points. This next stretch of games will be critical to this team. If the slide continues, then I think we do have to question his job as the bench boss.

rocker
07-18-2008, 03:29 PM
True about the fixture count. The fatigue comment is moot. We're not the only team in the league involved in outside tournaments. In fact we could consider ourselves lucky we're not in Superliga as well.

That's true as well. I'd hope though we'd have better expectations for the club than that.

On point #1 -- the fact stands because we are comparing 2007 TFC to 2008 TFC not comparing 2008 TFC to teams in Superliga this year. If anything, it's a criticism of last year's team that it didn't play in Superliga, didn't have the Canada Cup, and yet it still finished with fewer points at the halfway mark than 2008 TFC. And many of the early reserve games last year were cancelled, so the reserves didn't have to worry about fatigue at all from that.

on point #2 -- we are in year 2. Not sure if better expectations than making the playoffs are realistic for a year 2 team. Certainly it wasn't for any of the recent expansion sides.

olegunnar
07-18-2008, 03:34 PM
This is a bit off topic since I started this thread with facts about the team and it's performance in mind....

but I think there's a learning curve going on with Carver. I know it's the crappy MLS and I know Sir Bobby had high praise for him...but it's a whole new deal when you're the guy in charge. Carver's never had that experience before. There's a quantum leap from running training...to man management and making the final say.

Off topic...but still I think it's an interesting topic no one has ever discussed here.

rocker
07-18-2008, 03:36 PM
i think perhaps Carver is learning about parity. He didn't have to go into games where an injury to 1 guy or a latenight flight home from LA could turn the tide of a game.

It must be frustrating that games can turn on a small event... but also probably challenging because it means coaching needs to work to reduce that effect.

giambac
07-18-2008, 03:44 PM
More facts
game 2 vs DC - TFC gives up a goal in minute #2 and # 5 - Lose gamegame 3 vs LA - TFC gives up a goal in the 43rd minute - win game
game 6 vs NY - TFC gives up a goal in 39th minute - tie game
game 11 vs Houston - TFC gives up a goal in46 minute - lose game
game 14 vs Ne - TFC gives up a goal in 12 minute - lose game
game 15 vs Chicago - TFC gives up a goal in 6 minute and 92 minute - lose game
July 9 vs Vancouver - TFC gives up a goal in 43rd minute - tie game


Several examples how this team is not menatlly prepared for their road games. Way to many goals given up early in the game and therefore playing catch up and to many goals given up just before the half. The results are that they lost most of the games.

the coach has to have his players mentally prepared to suck it up and get thru the tough stretches of the game ans get the home crowd out of the game. How can TFC win on the road if they continously conceed these early goals.

I'm okay if it happens once or twice and you can blame the players but C'MON when it has happened 7 -8 times you have to look at the coach. Something isn't right here......

CretanBull
07-18-2008, 03:47 PM
but I think there's a learning curve going on with Carver. I know it's the crappy MLS and I know Sir Bobby had high praise for him...but it's a whole new deal when you're the guy in charge. Carver's never had that experience before. There's a quantum leap from running training...to man management and making the final say.



He was the head coach of Leeds United.....

ensco
07-18-2008, 03:47 PM
I'm actually not sure we've recaptured the feeling we had in June last year, when it looked like Dichio and Cunningham were going to destroy people, ROB was sensational, and we had the big wins over Dallas and Colorado, and the win away at RSL. Our home record wasn't as good, but we blew second half leads to DC and NY, and we had deserved better. I was sure we were building to be a playoff team then.

This year, I have felt lots of optimism (not lately), but not really the same certainty that we were on our way. Even when we were hot, we weren't getting any separation in the standings.

It might just be that I'm more cautious because of the experience of the second half last year.

separately do we need a "no replies to giambac" policy? enough already, I'm sick of the same points being used to hijack every thread on this board

coisty1966
07-18-2008, 03:52 PM
Every team in this league goes through a dry spell at some point in the season. TFC seems to be experiencing it now. The team will recover because it has enough quality and depth.


THIS is what we have to remember! Look at DC (to me the best in the league) 2W 7L first 9 games. since we went there and lost they are undefeated...5W 1D......good thing they didnt fire there coach prematurely eh? they only need to get the monkey off their back and get an away win....but at tleast they are making games of it unlike last season