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View Full Version : Who is here to stay and who is a stop-gap?



Abou Sky
05-02-2013, 01:34 PM
Ok, so we know that generally Payne and Nelsen want:

Young
Cheap
Talented

We also know that March 1st we had a disgusting team so we needed some better players and we got some short term solutions.

Question is, who will still be here in 2014?

Flipityflu
05-02-2013, 01:35 PM
Payne and Nelsen

Initial B
05-02-2013, 01:53 PM
And Laba. Probably Silva.

TFC07
05-02-2013, 01:57 PM
I think all British players except for Earnshaw and Eck will be gone to make room for new international players coming in. As for North American players, I am not sure. Hard to say who will go from that group. There's NA players who should be cut while there some who should be loaned to lower division to get some playing time.

Corpand
05-02-2013, 01:58 PM
Nelsen seems to have a man-crush on Lambe (he has improved technically since last year). I think Hall is gonna stay. Loanees are gone. I have the gut feeling that Frei will be expendable come season's end.

OgtheDim
05-02-2013, 02:03 PM
Osorio & Hall will be on the game time team sheets. Welshman, Bekker and Roberts will be on the roster.

Detroit_TFC
05-02-2013, 02:09 PM
My predictions is Earnshaw will get an offer from TFC to stay permanently but he will turn it down. He'll want a short deal and more money than Payne will give him. He might extend his loan through end of MLS season, though.

PopePouri
05-02-2013, 02:15 PM
My predictions is Earnshaw will get an offer from TFC to stay permanently but he will turn it down. He'll want a short deal and more money than Payne will give him. He might extend his loan through end of MLS season, though.

His contract ends in the summer so there's no loan to extend.

Detroit_TFC
05-02-2013, 02:17 PM
His contract ends in the summer so there's no loan to extend.

Ok, was trying to remember who was on short term and who was on loan.

ag futbol
05-02-2013, 02:48 PM
Osorio & Hall will be on the game time team sheets. Welshman, Bekker and Roberts will be on the roster.
Yep, throw Agboss on there too... He's their player. Otherwise... Hope nobody is too comfortable.

QBall
05-02-2013, 10:15 PM
Ok, so we know that generally Payne and Nelsen want:

Young
Cheap
Talented


Well the back pages of NOW magazine have plenty of advertisements of folks who can fill that need. Oh you mean on TFC? Silva and Hall I guess. Everyone else is expendable but I imagine no one has any trade value worth speaking of.

Oldtimer
05-03-2013, 07:26 AM
It's hard to think who will be left once you get rid of the USL-level players and those on loan + Koevs probably done.

Canary10
05-03-2013, 08:42 AM
Osorio will be there. Ephraim and Bostock go. I have a feeling Eckersley goes at the end of the year as well. There are better players for less money out there. Earnshaw I'm not sure. The average salary in the Championship is comparable to higher end MLS salary. It seems he like it here. I think he signs an extension but you never know. Boss and O'Dea stay. Frei goes. Bendik stays.

notthesun
05-03-2013, 01:43 PM
Osorio will be there. Ephraim and Bostock go. I have a feeling Eckersley goes at the end of the year as well. There are better players for less money out there. Earnshaw I'm not sure. The average salary in the Championship is comparable to higher end MLS salary. It seems he like it here. I think he signs an extension but you never know. Boss and O'Dea stay. Frei goes. Bendik stays.

Payne also said a while back he was looking to renegotiate one contract on the team, most people suspecting it to be Eckersley. If Payne could manage to get his salary down and keep him that would be great, but ultimately that decision will lie with Eckersley.

West220Side
05-03-2013, 02:34 PM
Darren O'dea
Richard Eckersley
Terry Dunfield
Jeremy Hall
Jonathon Osorio
Quillan Roberts
Doneil Henry
Matias Laba
Luis Silva
Gale Agbossoumonde


(1) Will sign a lower contract by almost $100,000 bringing him into the high $200,000 range and apply for residency. (2) Could go either way if his contract amount decreases I could see him coming but he would need to take a cut for sure. Great player, but overpaid. (3) Probably going to stay until he calls it quits if he doesn't retire here he'll become one of those old major league soccer guys who get tossed around every year. (4) Utility man, and has greatly improved his play since last year. He stays. (5) Brought in by this regime and has shown flashes of brilliance. He stays. (6) Young goalkeeper who we have no reason to get rid off. Stewart Kerr seems to get the most out of every goalkeeper to maximize their potential. He stays, probably ends up somewhere along the skill level of Bill Hamid/Sean Johnson (7) Can't see him leaving, he's big and great in the air, Toronto boy, basically already your average major league soccer centreback at only 20. (8) Just got signed. Payne himself said he's going to be here for a while unless he's a bust. (9) Going to end up a stud of a attacker in major league soccer. He's well on his way in development if he surpasses his 5goals/5assists of last year i'll be happy. (10) Just been brought in and has proven a fine centreback at this level atleast. He'll stay until at least the end of his contract.

These next boys i'm not 100% sure about but i'll give my case for why they may or may not be here and put them under a maybe section.



Ashtone Morgan
Logan Emory
Ryan Richter
Emery Welshman
Kyle Bekker
Joe Bendik
John Bostock


(1) He's just taken a step back in development everybodys agreed upon that. If we can't find a solution to fix this boy who's broken he's going to have to move on because they'll be nothing in it for us. (2) Young backup type player. He'll be on the sidelines probably unless with Morgan playing horrible this year he proves to be a weekly starter. Why drop a cheap backup player? (3) Same thing. Why drop a cheap backup type player. He's played really good in past games. Everybodys on him right now because of Montreal, but I think that will pass. (4) 2013 draft pick. Nobody knows except for Payne and Nelsen. Could be waived next off season. Could stay. (5) Had a lot of hype about him. Haven't seen him do much since the season started. I'll give him time but again. Good enough to be traded instead of waived. (6) Going to have to see if he ends the season as strong as he's started it. Under Stewart Kerr could blossom into a real steady keeper. (7) Once we trim the fat I think this boy could show that he's a real footballer. That's an if though. It's in his hands.

Going to go over the players I left out and they'll be the gone pile.



Danny Califf
Danny Koevermans
Robert Earnshaw
Darell Russel
Justin Braun
Reggie Lambe
Stefan Frei
Ashtone Bennett
Taylor Morgan
Andrew Weidemann
Hogan Ephraim


(1) He's an older centreback brought onto the team to bring mls experience. that's all. if its decided his legs can't keep up with the pace of the game I can see him moving on. for now though i'm a fan. (2) same issue with Califf he's getting older, and who knows? But like everybody right now I just wanna see this man scoring! (3) Think there was a lot of hype around this guy. If he doesn't score in these two away matches atleast a goal he's going to lose a supporter. We need our forwards scoring not taking half chance bicycle kicks. (4) Was pretty hard to place this guy he's a domestic and probably cheap so he might stay but really I have no interest in keeping him around right now. (5) There's gotta be better options then this guy and he's on $100,000 as of last years player salaries. Why keep him? (6) Nelsen seems to have a hard on for his defensive work rate but what the fuck he's a winger. He's gotta get forward and show some brilliance on the ball. Again there's gotta be better options in the MLS for wingers. Philadelphias Cruz? (7) Love this guy to death, and want nothing else then to see him hit the big one hundred for our club but realisticly I see him being part of some type of trade in the MLS. (8) ... *shrug* (9) see player 8. (10) don't want this guy anywhere near our football club the only thing he's bringing is a good attitude. (11) shows a good first touch once and a while but then does nothing else. see ya.

That's all twenty eight footballers we have on our roster as of today. I've got 10 staying, 7 who can decide their own future, and 11 who can get lost.
I would also like to say I can see Darren O'dea & Matias Laba becoming the 'face' of this organization.

Ajax TFC
05-03-2013, 09:01 PM
I'm just going to go over the main players since the backups can stay or be replaced and the quality will be no different.
To stay:
Henry
Morgan
O'Dea
Agboss
Bekker
Osorio
Silva
Laba
Hall (can play lone DM just fine or cover RM)
Bendik
Eckersley (at reduced salary)

Gone next season:
Frei
Dunfield
Earnshaw
Ephraim
Bostock
Koevermans (unless he decides he likes it here and would play for a fraction of his current salary)
Russell
Also a few of the reserve strikers (Bennett, Wiedeman, Braun, or Morgan). I imagine Welshman, Braun and maybe one other will be kept depending on our striker situation going into next season.

Auzzy
05-03-2013, 10:10 PM
Sorry I can't read this thread title w/o thinking of this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIXLHtg2Btk


I believe O'Dea and/or Ecks will be renegotiated (or they may not be here next season). Payne made it clear before the season that those were two of the overpriced salaries from the previous regime(s). Who knows, maybe one already was re-negotiated, we will soon find out when the salary list comes out. Both those guys seem quite settled here, no idea if they might agree to a lower salary for a longer commitment.

Thomas Jacusy
05-09-2013, 05:00 AM
My full support is with Nelson.

I hope for always that he is remain a part of the team and show his best class of his game.

SiguenzaFC
05-09-2013, 08:28 AM
IMO, Keep them:

TOR Agbossoumonde Gale D $ 46,500.00 $ 53,166.67
TOR Bekker Kyle M $ 46,500.00 $ 67,750.00
TOR Bendik Joe GK $ 46,500.00 $ 46,500.00
TOR Dunfield Terry M $ 120,000.00 $ 120,000.00
TOR Earnshaw Robert F $ 138,000.00 $ 155,150.00
TOR Hall Jeremy D $ 80,000.00 $ 90,000.00
TOR Henry Doneil D $ 50,000.00 $ 62,083.33
TOR Koevermans Danny F $ 1,250,000.00 $ 1,663,323.33
TOR Laba Matias M $ 200,000.00 $ 200,000.00
TOR Morgan Ashtone D $ 60,000.00 $ 72,000.00
TOR O'Dea Darren D $ 350,000.00 $ 456,250.00
TOR Osorio Jonathan M $ 46,500.00 $ 46,500.00
TOR Richter Ryan F $ 35,125.00 $ 35,125.00
TOR Roberts Quillan GK $ 46,500.00 $ 46,500.00
TOR Welshman Emery F $ 46,500.00 $ 46,500.00

Get rid of them (trade or send back):
TOR Bostock John M $ 99,996.00 $ 99,996.00
TOR Ephraim Hogan F $ 180,000.00 $ 180,000.00
TOR Frei Stefan GK $ 145,000.00 $ 200,000.00
TOR Wiedeman Andrew F $ 55,000.00 $ 65,000.00

Transferable role players:
TOR Bennett Ashton F $ 46,500.00 $ 46,500.00
TOR Braun Justin F $ 112,200.00 $ 114,700.00
TOR Califf Danny D $ 165,000.00 $ 165,000.00
TOR Eckersley Richard D $ 210,000.00 $ 310,000.00
TOR Emory Logan D $ 48,400.00 $ 48,400.00
TOR Lambe Reggie M $ 67,500.00 $ 70,000.00
TOR Morgan Taylor F $ 35,125.00 $ 35,125.00
TOR Russell Darel M $ 99,999.96 $ 109,874.96
TOR Silva Luis M $ 70,400.00 $ 105,400.00

What do we need?
A Defender,
2 pacy wingers on either side, with dribbling, passing and crossing skills
A long term Striker

Gaucho
05-09-2013, 10:15 AM
I wonder how the team's goal differential compares to Silva's +/-. Seriously, it seems like every time Silva gets subbed out, Toronto concedes goals. On the other hand, when Silva comes on as a sub, Toronto starts scoring. I've watched the vast majority of Toronto matches since Silva joined the club, and I think he's pretty clearly the best player this year. I do key in on him when I watch, and he might have a couple bad touches a match, but he consistently plays his teammates into dangerous situations. The only weaknesses I see in his game is that he's not great at winning contested headers and he hasn't shown a great finishing touch so far this year. IMO, if scouts are following him closely, he's going to be playing in Europe in a year or two.

REDJUVE
05-09-2013, 11:54 AM
I wonder how the team's goal differential compares to Silva's +/-. Seriously, it seems like every time Silva gets subbed out, Toronto concedes goals. On the other hand, when Silva comes on as a sub, Toronto starts scoring. I've watched the vast majority of Toronto matches since Silva joined the club, and I think he's pretty clearly the best player this year. I do key in on him when I watch, and he might have a couple bad touches a match, but he consistently plays his teammates into dangerous situations. The only weaknesses I see in his game is that he's not great at winning contested headers and he hasn't shown a great finishing touch so far this year. IMO, if scouts are following him closely, he's going to be playing in Europe in a year or two.

Agreed on all points... Silva is our Golden Boy... he is just getting better and better.

SiguenzaFC
05-09-2013, 01:50 PM
Agreed on all points... Silva is our Golden Boy... he is just getting better and better.

He is good, and he can get better if he has more confidence to take players on and make a good pass. Sometimes I feel like he is a little uninterested in defending, even when he is the first to lose the ball. He could be a Xavi type of player if he decides he wants to be good.

Also for those reasons he has trade value and could land us someone good in a position where we are lacking.

Gaucho
05-09-2013, 02:44 PM
He is good, and he can get better if he has more confidence to take players on and make a good pass. Sometimes I feel like he is a little uninterested in defending, even when he is the first to lose the ball. He could be a Xavi type of player if he decides he wants to be good.

Also for those reasons he has trade value and could land us someone good in a position where we are lacking.

We're likely to have to agree to disagree on your assessment, but I don't think Silva lacks in confidence at all. I understand that he doesn't exude confidence when he's being interviewed, but the dude has oodles of confidence on the pitch. His passing is exceptional. Sure, he doesn't mind making a simple back pass to keep possession and reset play, but he attempts quite a few killer balls, some with a relatively high degree of difficulty, and those passes are oftentimes right on the money. He is NOT the kind of selfish player who will try killer ball after killer ball. If something simple is more warranted, he will typically make the right pass in the right situation. I also think that some of his very subtle movement and misdirection, particularly in tight spaces, go unnoticed. I think his smoothness on the ball can easily be missed by casual observers.

He takes guys on 1-on-1 (see stepover move versus LA Galaxy on Osorio goal). He certainly can take guys on 1 v 1, but that's not normally the right play for him. He's usually better off playing a teammate into a dangerous situation, and he's really good at getting an understanding with teammates and learning how and when they like to receive the ball.

I have seen him come back to defend on multiple occasions, oftentimes with a well timed slide to win the ball back. His overall awareness and positioning are excellent. Now, he should be played right behind the striker(s) where his defensive responsibilities are at a minimum... but not so much b/c he can't defend but much more so b/c he's so deadly offensively.

If you think he's worthy trade bait now when he's been playing in relative obscurity on a poor team, then you're not going to get anything close to his true value... unless some team out there recognizes the true gem that he is.

I fully admit that I come at this with some biases as I watched him for 4 years at UC Santa Barbara, but I would also like to think that I'm not evaluating his skillset with rose colored glasses. For example, to the shock of some of my Gaucho buddies, I said last year that he will be a better professional than Chris Pontius.

Canary10
05-09-2013, 02:57 PM
We're likely to have to agree to disagree on your assessment, but I don't think Silva lacks in confidence at all. I understand that he doesn't exude confidence when he's being interviewed, but the dude has oodles of confidence on the pitch. His passing is exceptional. Sure, he doesn't mind making a simple back pass to keep possession and reset play, but he attempts quite a few killer balls, some with a relatively high degree of difficulty, and those passes are oftentimes right on the money. He is NOT the kind of selfish player who will try killer ball after killer ball. If something simple is more warranted, he will typically make the right pass in the right situation. I also think that some of his very subtle movement and misdirection, particularly in tight spaces, go unnoticed. I think his smoothness on the ball can easily be missed by casual observers.

He takes guys on 1-on-1 (see stepover move versus LA Galaxy on Osorio goal). He certainly can take guys on 1 v 1, but that's not normally the right play for him. He's usually better off playing a teammate into a dangerous situation, and he's really good at getting an understanding with teammates and learning how and when they like to receive the ball.

I have seen him come back to defend on multiple occasions, oftentimes with a well timed slide to win the ball back. His overall awareness and positioning are excellent. Now, he should be played right behind the striker(s) where his defensive responsibilities are at a minimum... but not so much b/c he can't defend but much more so b/c he's so deadly offensively.

If you think he's worthy trade bait now when he's been playing in relative obscurity on a poor team, then you're not going to get anything close to his true value... unless some team out there recognizes the true gem that he is.

I fully admit that I come at this with some biases as I watched him for 4 years at UC Santa Barbara, but I would also like to think that I'm not evaluating his skillset with rose colored glasses. For example, to the shock of some of my Gaucho buddies, I said last year that he will be a better professional than Chris Pontius.

All of this may be true (and I do think he's a very good player), but it's funny how we're struggling to find a place for him on the pitch. He played wide left yesterday (or at least started there). He's played in the hole behind Earnshaw in the 4-4-1-1. He's played more or less the attacking mid in a 4-4-2. He's been tried as another holding mid in the 4-4-2. We seem to be jamming him into positions just to get him out there.

Gaucho
05-09-2013, 03:50 PM
All of this may be true (and I do think he's a very good player), but it's funny how we're struggling to find a place for him on the pitch. He played wide left yesterday (or at least started there). He's played in the hole behind Earnshaw in the 4-4-1-1. He's played more or less the attacking mid in a 4-4-2. He's been tried as another holding mid in the 4-4-2. We seem to be jamming him into positions just to get him out there.

Very true. I was hoping that with the signing of a good ball wining midfielder like Laba, that it would push Silva up the field more. I was surprised to see him play on the wing last night even though he played there a bit last year. And he seemed to be most effective versus SJ when he would gravitate toward the middle of the pitch. IMO, for him to be most effective, Toronto needs to play in a diamond 4-4-2 or play a 4-4-1-1 with him behind the striker (as Canary said).

In order of effectiveness, I'd go with:

1) Central attacking midfielder
2) Second striker
3) Deep lying playmaker
4) Wing

SiguenzaFC
05-10-2013, 02:10 AM
I am glad they got Tal Ben Haim, now we just need another striker, and wingers so that Silva can play in the middle and fulfill his full potential

Still Kicking
05-10-2013, 07:29 AM
Stay or go? The TFC fan has grown so used to this revolving door that it has become a constant question. Long ago, I remember another Toronto tradition in this area. The Argos, when they were one of two pro franchises in town, would regularly be terrible. When the NFL teams would make their late cuts the Argos would invite up a few players for trials. It became known as the Argo Airlift. News for a week or two, who would have dreamed that one day a team by the lake would be in Argo Airlift mode all year round?

So I choose my words carefully on this topic. I always regret rash statements. I turned to some great TFC fans at a game in October 2009 and said "see you at the playoff game".

I read West220Side's opinions and agree with most. I will highlight those I have a differing opinion on. I think the key to these discussions is growth and loyalty. TFC has many young players and therefore improvements need time. If we are to build a winning tradition in Toronto soccer, it can't be done in the breeze of the revolving door.

I think that fans who post on here are a little obsessed with salaries and salary caps. I am of the opinion that the recent hiring of both Payne and Leiweke has changed the rules around that. These guys loom so large in MLS history that they decide the rules. At least which rules apply to them and which rules apply to us. I often get the feeling from reading RPB blog posts that fans imagine the Don Garber - TFC relationship to be based on Mr. Burns and Homer. That when the phone rings in Toronto everyone holds their breath because it could be GARBER.... Instead I think KP and TL are trying to create something on a grand scale (and if some rules are bent, some rules are broken, so be it) and Garber is going to be in "whatever it takes" mode.

So West220Side's list with my comments...
Danny Califf - I too am a fan of this guy. However the recent arrival of loan defenders Caldwell and Ben Haim must mean a shuffle of some sort. If TFC have a trade in mind I think Califf is involved,
Danny Koevermans His return is the largest question mark. I suspect that a summer DP signing is under discussion and Danny K back healthy and scoring will keep him in Toronto for years to come (oops I may have said too much)
Robert Earnshaw His summer hinges on the return of Danny K and the possible summer DP signing. He has Toronto years ahead of him
Darell Russel I want him to stay, his goal against Dallas indicated that playing midfield could be his future.
Justin Braun I want him to stay. MLS is a physical league and having a strong striker is an asset. A sub, not a starter.
Reggie Lambe I think that he would be a perfect candidate for a loan, still young but zero goals in 2013 is a huge problem
Stefan Frei I think Bendik's distribution problems will see a return of Frei - perhaps even against Columbus on the long weekend
Ashtone Bennett A loan needed - playing reserves games not enough. He
Taylor Morgan He takes up an international spot, which means he must have shown potential at training - a loan would be great
Andrew Weidemann He could be a throw in on a trade, doubt he will be loaned
Hogan Ephraim I think QPR will take him back. They are shedding big contracts due to relegation, but will still need to fill a roster come August.


All in all I think loyalty and growth applies to most of the young guys. It is a tough prediction area because a trade, a signing, a loan or an injury can change so much in a instant. Here is hoping that TFC is as loyal to young potential as West220side is to his section.....