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Yohan
04-17-2013, 11:42 AM
I'm surprised that some people have written him off already. The kid is only 21 and he's playing out of position. A natural AM with dribbling and technical ability that haven't been seen by a TFC player in a while. I think the question should be, is he worth keeping around for next season? Use this season for him to adjust to MLS and see him contribute at least at depth level, and project him to be a starter for 2014.
Seems more technical a player is, more time they need to adjust. And I think we can agree that O'Dea getting that half season last year did wonders for him this season.

Anyways, latest article on Bostock

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/04/17/toronto-fcs-john-bostock-enjoying-respite-english-hype-machine-it-good-me-ge

MartinUtd
04-17-2013, 12:08 PM
Keep him if he's cheap. I started that "Are their days numbered" thread last week under the assumption that he's coming form England and expecting $250+ K. If that's the case, I don't know if he's worth keeping around unless Uruti proves to be a bust.

Yes, we need him now as we have little depth, but if he's going to play with his head down and sulk I don't think he's worth anything close to the kind of money he'd get in England (assuming he could land a position at a Championship club.

So in conclusion, I see an upside, but I'm extremely weary of his ability to realize his potential. Of course, more games will give me a better idea to make judgement with.

AlanO
04-17-2013, 12:45 PM
Hopefully he's the next Boniek Garcia and not the next Alen Stevanovic.

Loads of talent, but looks like he's trying to do everything himself.

Yohan
04-17-2013, 12:56 PM
Keep him if he's cheap. I started that "Are their days numbered" thread last week under the assumption that he's coming form England and expecting $250+ K. If that's the case, I don't know if he's worth keeping around unless Uruti proves to be a bust.

Yes, we need him now as we have little depth, but if he's going to play with his head down and sulk I don't think he's worth anything close to the kind of money he'd get in England (assuming he could land a position at a Championship club.

So in conclusion, I see an upside, but I'm extremely weary of his ability to realize his potential. Of course, more games will give me a better idea to make judgement with.
This depends on what Bostock wants. If he just wants regular first team mins, he should be settling for 150k per year ish wage, which is about 2000 pounds/week.
If he thinks he should get more, well, he's going to be in for a surprise as a guy who can't be a starter in a League One team.

TFC is going to be paying for Bostock's potential which is pretty huge, but I think it's reasonable that he'd likely be a decent AM in MLS. But this depends on whether Bostock learns to hustle more. Unless your name is Barros Schelotto or Higuain, AMs expect to track more in MLS.

jloome
04-17-2013, 01:07 PM
Hopefully he's the next Boniek Garcia and not the next Alen Stevanovic.

Loads of talent, but looks like he's trying to do everything himself.

Man, I'm with Yohan on this. If we had a chance to sign John Bostock for the long-term, we should take it. He's a major talent and, as noted in the Mlssoccer.com article, he's ONLY 21.

He's a kid still, and he's probably among the most technically gifted players in this league by a wide margin, AND he's playing out of position. He's been a central midfielder or hole player at Tottenham and Swindon.

I agree there is a "head down, take everyone on" component to him that he has to rein in. But look at Stefanovic, now starting for Torino and a player of the calibre who, while he sucked here, would now do very well in MLS.

Bostock has MAJOR talent, and is a kid. If we can sign him, we should; I would even say if we had the cap space, that getting a prospect of that calibre at 250k a year would be worth it; even if you only got six or seven assists out of him in the first season or two, by the time he's 24 or 25 and hitting his prime, he'll be a top player in this league. And he CAN contribute right away, he just needs to be consistent. We saw that in the first game, when he broke KC ankles, set up a goal and drew a penalty.

I sort of agree he'd been better behind the striker, but I also think it's smart for Nelsen and O'Leary to try to make him as versatile as possible, just as they're doing by using Luis Silva a little deeper. I criticized that at first, but in the last game his defense was really, really solid. Bostock might well be the same way.

We need to be patient with some of these decisions, particularly when we get an opportunity to develop a significant talent.

Yohan
04-17-2013, 01:13 PM
And if Bostock pans out, the reputation TFC would get for developing talent/reclaimation project would not hurt in the future for attracting more talent too...

MLS is working towards being a refutable talent developing league just below top tier Euro leagues. It would be nice if TFC was the lead club in this regard

Couchy81
04-17-2013, 01:18 PM
He's one of a minority of TFC players over the years who actually have skill and technique, developed by playing professional soccer at a young age (Crystal Palace at 15)

Keeping him or not all comes down to price. That is all.

brad
04-17-2013, 03:25 PM
Keep him for sure - even if he is expensive. He has a ridiculous amount of technical ability. Give him a chance to settle in the league/team, get a better team around him and watch him mature. He could be dynamite.

The big question though is whether he has the right mentality to flourish here (your not a superstar kid, get you head down and work hard), or if is a prima donna. I think Nelsen should get the read on that pretty quickly.

Also, pair him with a good 2 way midfielder or a solid holder, and he should be able to have more liberty staying forward.

mowe
04-17-2013, 03:48 PM
Keep him if he's cheap. I started that "Are their days numbered" thread last week under the assumption that he's coming form England and expecting $250+ K. If that's the case, I don't know if he's worth keeping around unless Uruti proves to be a bust.

Yes, we need him now as we have little depth, but if he's going to play with his head down and sulk I don't think he's worth anything close to the kind of money he'd get in England (assuming he could land a position at a Championship club.

So in conclusion, I see an upside, but I'm extremely weary of his ability to realize his potential. Of course, more games will give me a better idea to make judgement with.

Agree with everything here.

T-boy
04-17-2013, 03:53 PM
I've been disappointed to far. BUT, I also think he's playing out of position. I think he's far better suited to a central position where he can pick a pass and make others do the running. I also think he could do with toughening up a little! He's got all the skill, he just needs to put it all together.

notthesun
04-17-2013, 04:02 PM
He's got the talent, he just needs more time to settle. In the league and in his position out wide (if we keep using him there).

His best game is still his first, against Kansas City. He was probably just really amped up for that one having (literally) just got into the team, now he needs to find his consistency. But the skill is there. That Berbaspin against Dallas around the 20th minute? No one else on the team could pull that off; no one in our team's history could pull that off.

I put him at CF in my desired lineup against Houston for a reason. Ephraim got his chance there and out wide and he's clearly better suited to the wing. Bostock has shown glimpses out wide but I feel like he should get his chance down the middle to show what he can do. Isolated out wide, we've yet to see him unleash the Kraken (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXCCIkJsnKI). Guarantee he'd be able to fashion himself a chance or two if we put him in behind Earnshaw or Earnshaw and Braun.

Yohan
04-17-2013, 04:12 PM
Honestly, I'd be happy going forward with Silva and Bostock as our AMs. I think Silva is a bit more mature and better passer right now, but Bostock is better dribbler and creative.

JonO
04-17-2013, 04:18 PM
The big question though is whether he has the right mentality to flourish here (your not a superstar kid, get you head down and work hard), or if is a prima donna. I think Nelsen should get the read on that pretty quickly.

If you are going to use the bolded phrase, I prefer the alternate spelling "pre madonna" I have seen around these parts g:D Otherwise, +1

pawlukj
04-17-2013, 06:49 PM
very talented guy i can see him doing much for the offense and hes a tall guy too so that odd header goal would just help overall

Gilberto9
04-17-2013, 07:31 PM
Are we getting a little too excited about Bostock? I don't think he'll want to stay in North America past his development stage. He has been a top prospect for a while, so why do you think he would want to spend his best years in MLS?

notthesun
04-17-2013, 07:44 PM
Are we getting a little too excited about Bostock? I don't think he'll want to stay in North America past his development stage. He has been a top prospect for a while, so why do you think he would want to spend his best years in MLS?

He's still got a number of years to develop into the player he wants to be. If things go well for him these won't be his best years.

He's one of the innumerable number of English prospects who are over-hyped, thrown into the first team way too early and then sent on loan after loan. He wasn't ready and it stunted his development. In the eyes of English media and fans he's not a top prospect, he's a failed prospect. He should be performing on Oxlade-Chamberlain or Wilshere levels but he's nowhere near.

It makes sense for him to want a move abroad to a league like the MLS. He can start or sub into every game and be one of focal points of the attack. And most importantly, nobody knows him here. He can concentrate on his game without the burden or pressure of trying to live up to his wonderkid potential.

Yohan
04-17-2013, 07:52 PM
Are we getting a little too excited about Bostock? I don't think he'll want to stay in North America past his development stage. He has been a top prospect for a while, so why do you think he would want to spend his best years in MLS?
if he's worth his salt, he'd try to go back to England. play well enough in MLS, and you will get noticed, even by EPL teams. and hopefully TFC cashes in on transfer fee in the process

Gilberto9
04-17-2013, 08:18 PM
if he's worth his salt, he'd try to go back to England. play well enough in MLS, and you will get noticed, even by EPL teams. and hopefully TFC cashes in on transfer fee in the process

Well he's not even our property yet, lol. He still belongs to Tottenham

Yohan
04-17-2013, 08:20 PM
Well he's not even our property yet, lol. He still belongs to Tottenham
true. though I think his contract ends in June?

Thomas
04-17-2013, 08:44 PM
I like Bostock a lot, and think he is very talented and holds tons of potential. I hope folks give him some more time to let him show what he is capable of achieving. I hope we hold on to him.

Abou Sky
04-17-2013, 09:17 PM
I think he has the best on the ball skills in MLS.

He can pick out a pass very well, it is the 'giving up' on the play that kills me.

I think he is worth a bit of risk because the upside could be so ridiculous that really, if we pay him $250k, and he is only worth $150-$200k we are not out $250k, we are out $50-$100k

Otoh, he could end up being priceless, it seems like it is his mojo that has gone awry more than anything, let's see what happens.

Morlesio14
04-17-2013, 10:38 PM
He's a good player. He plays like Ronaldo but not much pace.

jloome
04-17-2013, 11:19 PM
true. though I think his contract ends in June?

Is he? I though the team said we signed him on a free already, to a short term contract. Is this a loan?

Yohan
04-17-2013, 11:30 PM
Is he? I though the team said we signed him on a free already, to a short term contract. Is this a loan?
I thought it's a short term loan till end of June, then TFC and Bostock decides to sign Bostock permanently after.

Ajax TFC
04-17-2013, 11:44 PM
I think he's on loan until his contract with Spurs expires this summer, and then it's expected that we sign him permanently then.

greatwhitenorf
04-18-2013, 12:05 AM
'E's mustard. Sign 'im up.

His contract expires in June, doubtful Spurs want to keep him. Just not going to crack that lineup with what Villas-Boas has planned. Word from Spurs fans is he's always started well with each club he's been loaned to, but then tails off. Time to put aside the grand notions that flew about him when he was a teenaged prodigy. He's matured but hasn't progressed sufficiently.

He'll get plenty of playing time here if he makes the commitment. A couple of strong seasons over here would do him a lot of good and send the right message back to the big leagues over 'ome.

Derko
04-18-2013, 09:39 AM
I say keep him, Who knows if the Argies are coming or not, John Bostock has bags of skill, why give up on a young talented player, as the previous regime managed to do time and again, throw away talent.

Richard
04-18-2013, 03:16 PM
Really interesting that Bostock is only 21 , puts into perspective the diferences in player development here in NA. Silva is 24 and a rookie with only about 2 pro years while Bostock has already 6 seasons under his belt.

Although he only has 20 more pro games than Silva, Bostock has trained professionally year round and probably has 3-4 times more game experience with reserves etc.

TFC07
04-18-2013, 03:29 PM
Really interesting that Bostock is only 21 , puts into perspective the diferences in player development here in NA. Silva is 24 and a rookie with only about 2 pro years while Bostock has already 6 seasons under his belt.

Although he only has 20 more pro games than Silva, Bostock has trained professionally year round and probably has 3-4 times more game experience with reserves etc.
Yeah, it's weird having 24 year old rookies (like Bennett) on the roster. By that age, you should be done developing your game and start producing for the first team. I hope people demand higher quality players here instead defending some of these players and giving rookie excuse. But the good thing is we already got some young talented players like Bostock, Henry (he's only 19 years old), Agbossoumonde, Lambe (he's only 22 years old), A.Morgan on the club. They're young and have played first team at least one game so far in the season (except for Henry).

jloome
04-18-2013, 06:48 PM
Yeah, it's weird having 24 year old rookies (like Bennett) on the roster. By that age, you should be done developing your game and start producing for the first team. I hope people demand higher quality players here instead defending some of these players and giving rookie excuse. But the good thing is we already got some young talented players like Bostock, Henry (he's only 19 years old), Agbossoumonde, Lambe (he's only 22 years old), A.Morgan on the club. They're young and have played first team at least one game so far in the season (except for Henry).

Most professional outfield players don't peak until 27-28, but it certainly is a disadvantage, the late start here and the relatively small amount of time to develop beyond NCAA's mediocre product.

Couchy81
04-18-2013, 06:59 PM
Most professional outfield players don't peak until 27-28, but it certainly is a disadvantage, the late start here and the relatively small amount of time to develop beyond NCAA's mediocre product.

That is the main reason for the skill gap in North America. You have to start young, you can't teach a 20 year old how to suddenly have good instinct when it comes to ball control and passing ability.

burlington Red
04-20-2013, 07:30 PM
Hopefully he's the next Boniek Garcia and not the next Alen Stevanovic.

Loads of talent, but looks like he's trying to do everything himself.

Look where Stevanovic is now

AlanO
04-20-2013, 09:21 PM
Look where Stevanovic is now

What's he doing now? Honest question - I have no idea, and wikipedia doesn't have anything about him after he left TFC.

I made the comparison with Stevanovic because Bostock plays a similar style. Tons of talent, but tries to beat everyone 1v1 instead of making a pass. Causes some turnovers and ends up killing plays.

Stevanovic was ineffective while he was here, to the point where he couldn't even crack the starting lineup of the worst team in the world. Hopefully Bostock can figure out how to make himself more dangerous.

Blizzard
04-20-2013, 10:44 PM
What's he doing now? Honest question - I have no idea, and wikipedia doesn't have anything about him after he left TFC.

I made the comparison with Stevanovic because Bostock plays a similar style. Tons of talent, but tries to beat everyone 1v1 instead of making a pass. Causes some turnovers and ends up killing plays.

Stevanovic was ineffective while he was here, to the point where he couldn't even crack the starting lineup of the worst team in the world. Hopefully Bostock can figure out how to make himself more dangerous.

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/143516/alan-stevanovic?cc=5901

Yohan
04-29-2013, 11:11 PM
Well Maybe he should say that.


Imo Bostock is not a Cam, in my football philosophy he is an inexperienced winger or yet to be tested striker.


His awareness is not high enough to play that position successfully, and maybe thats part of the reason he is here.

I suspect Nelsen agrees with you. Bostock's decision making has been particularly poor.

But if you look at this from Bostock's POV, he must be one frustrated dude. He probably feels he's not getting a fair chance to prove himself being forced to play out of position. And he saw Ephraim, naturally a winger playing CAM instead of him. Probably wondering if everyone in the mid gets a shot at CAM before him. And going from being a starter down to subs bench, because of poor showing as a winger is probably make him resent a bit.

For a low composure dude like Bostock, he needs to feel that Nelsen has confidence in him. V Cup game is the perfect time for Bostock to show what he's got at CAM

Ajax TFC
04-29-2013, 11:25 PM
He's not better then Silva. He's maybe better then Bekker, but in comparison costs too much.
Is it just me, or do a lot of us have a sort of inferiority complex when it comes to Bekker. It feels like a lot of people are afraid to think that he might actually be really good. Besides, Bekker and Bostock aren't even the same types of players. Bekker is a deep playmaker and doesn't forget to track back, even if he has been caught ball watching a few times. He also prefers to pass rather than take players on. Bostock on the other hand is meant to play as an advanced midfielder, doesn't track back and prefers to attack, and likes take players on rather than pass

mook-life
04-30-2013, 08:13 PM
Can't stand bostock in my eyes he shows no effort or just doesn't care enough he tries something fails and just gives up on the play there was at least 2 times last game where if he stuck with it he could have won the ball back

Derko
05-01-2013, 04:22 AM
Can't stand bostock in my eyes he shows no effort or just doesn't care enough he tries something fails and just gives up on the play there was at least 2 times last game where if he stuck with it he could have won the ball back

I think that can be said of the whole team last time out, I see a naturally skilled player that is playing in the wrong position, I have seen the greatest players and teams in history not show up for a match, and stink. TFC did that against NYRB.

Joe Kool
05-01-2013, 08:23 AM
I find alot of times he gets to a certain point usually 3/4 of the way up the field or so then runs out of space and cuts back and either loses it or plays it back to our defense. Teams seem to know how to play him or catch on very quick. You also know he's going to go to his left foot. He would have had some amazing chances on goal if he would have used his right but switched to his left and lost the ball. I guess most players favour one foot over the other but when attacking it is worth a shot sometimes to give it a go I think. I think he can still improve as time goes on as long as he can keep from being frustrated and keep a good attitude. Would be great to see him in his natural position for a change to see what happens. Every now again he ends up in the middle with the ball and looks decent.

Yohan
05-23-2013, 09:44 AM
ever the optimist. For his sake, I hope you are correct.
natural talent only gets you so far. you don't get signed by Tottenham without having at least a little bit of football brain. dude is only 21. esp in NA, where development really happens at this age.

Bostock's problem is that he lacks confidence and determination and work rate. well, and being forced to play out of position

T-boy
05-23-2013, 10:24 AM
Bostock kinda reminds me of our last "former Spurs prodigee" Rohan Ricketts! All the footballing individual skill at his feet, but lack of workrate and ability to work with 10 other footballers on a regular basis.

nonc
05-23-2013, 05:17 PM
Bostock should start at NE with Silva in front of Laba. He was 1 of maybe 2 players that didn't embarrass himself in Montreal and I don't think we've seen him since. And never seen him in the middle.

adam1001
05-24-2013, 06:13 PM
Bostock should start at NE with Silva in front of Laba. He was 1 of maybe 2 players that didn't embarrass himself in Montreal and I don't think we've seen him since. And never seen him in the middle.
Looks like he's been waived.

habstfc
05-24-2013, 07:47 PM
It's a little frustrating to know he never got to play in his natural position of AM.

Red CB Toronto
05-24-2013, 07:58 PM
Benny and the Jets

69Chevy396
05-24-2013, 08:55 PM
Looks like he's been waived.
Soccer is played in hundreds of countries, why do we have to endure so many failures from the UK?

gate7
05-24-2013, 09:08 PM
Soccer is played in hundreds of countries, why do we have to endure so many failures from the UK?

cause only failures would want to play here....sad

69Chevy396
05-24-2013, 09:49 PM
cause only failures would want to play here....sad
Can't argue with that. The league has improved but remains for the most part a repository for the old, the slow, the oft-injured, the talentless, the young with exaggerated promise, the young who want to leave, and the largest group consisting of average, hard working Americans who acknowledge their limitations and try to make a living in MLS. We need a lot more of this later group.

Fort York Redcoat
05-25-2013, 06:52 AM
Can't argue with that. The league has improved but remains for the most part a repository for the old, the slow, the oft-injured, the talentless, the young with exaggerated promise, the young who want to leave, and the largest group consisting of average, hard working Americans who acknowledge their limitations and try to make a living in MLS. We need a lot more of this later group.


Examples of hard working Americans available when we got Bostock?

This league reflects how we treat the sport. When we treat it as a lot of the rest of the world does our league would look a lot different. Until then we're lucky to at least be able to attract the foreign talent with opportunities over here past the league itself. Almost no one comes here for the state of the league now. They're here to improve it and to enjoy the difference in culture.

You're going to have a hard time if you keep trying to compare our league with others worldwide. Same sport but the way we treat it is apples to oranges. I try and appreciate both.

Good luck Bostock. I'd agree we didn't see enough of him to be sure he wouldn't fit anywhere but this team is running out of time to improve.

Abou Sky
05-25-2013, 09:04 AM
As more clubs who promise higher wages continue to not pay at all, we will improve.

I wish the cap would increase more quickly but long term we will surpass all but the best few leagues in the world.

North Americans love sport and are willing to spend on sports like few others, as more people understand the game, more people will enjoy and watch.

SiguenzaFC
05-26-2013, 03:41 PM
I read an article on goal.com that suggested the salary cap will be increased with the addition of NYC FC, which is good because some of these guys are getting peanuts.

Also, statistically John Bostock was a futile selfish player: In the 7 games he played, he averaged 1.4 runs by team mates, with no assists and no goals. His only positive was his passing pct: at 79.9% he was 75th in the league.

IMO Nelsen hasn't been able to get this team on the same wavelength, morale is low, you can see it in their faces. He doesn't trust his 2 CB's, probably because he thinks he could do better, so he ssends out a formation with 4 CB's and 2 DM's which makes for a clusterf*ck in the middle. We got Ashtone Morgan, a homegrown kid with potential, who knows what it means to wear a Toronto soccer jersey, rotting away on the bench because his manager is too stupid to realize you need wingers to spread the field. A facet of the game that gets exploited against us.

Nelsen is a big oaf who was brought here as an example to TFC players that they can aspire for bigger things in MLS, but he is just a walking token. He can't pick players, he doesn't know strategy or formations, he can't motivate, all he is good for is his rapport in Britain which gets us out-of-favor players who need to resurrect their career elsewhere; Earnshaw and Caldwell being the only two who have contributed so far. He is a scout at best. Why is Montreal better? because they have an experienced manager. Get it done Payne or your head is next!

T-boy
05-26-2013, 04:53 PM
I don't think Nelson "is too stupid to realise you need wingers to spread play". They just went and got Convey, so clearly Nelson does realise that we are lacking wingers. I just think we need to wait to judge Nelson on player acquisitions. Other than Laba, all the other acquisitions are all short term stop-gaps. Nelson admits this himself saying that they HAD to sign players at the start of the season "because we had nothing".