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Rudy
04-16-2013, 07:58 PM
What an interesting psychological concept. Nelson should really solicit help of a psychologist to resove the 90-min complex in TFC players. You can now predict, almost with certainty, that if TFC is ahead, and the 90th min hits, that the team will collapse, and the TFC net will be butchered. What is it going to take to break this? Nelson has got to come up with a psychological strategy that kicks in at the 90th minute.

Richard
04-16-2013, 08:05 PM
For me its about ball possesion. You need to have players who can avoid pressure, maintain composure, provide good passing and have an outlet of players in position.

We dont have players who can do this regularly. We would not have concededed as many late goals if we weren't being bombarded for 15+min, the players think hoofball is safe.

Ultra & Proud
04-16-2013, 08:06 PM
What an interesting psychological concept. Nelson should really solicit help of a psychologist to resove the 90-min complex in TFC players. You can now predict, almost with certainty, that if TFC is ahead, and the 90th min hits, that the team will collapse, and the TFC net will be butchered. What is it going to take to break this? Nelson has got to come up with a psychological strategy that kicks in at the 90th minute.

Not having your fullbacks sent off is a start. Next is getting your mids to track their markers for a full 90 minutes without walking up the pitch ala Bostock.

ManUtd4ever
04-16-2013, 08:14 PM
I had faint hope that Nelsen had exercised the 90th minute demons in our win against SKC, but alas, the curse is unfortunately alive and well.

BuSaPuNk
04-16-2013, 08:17 PM
To me it all boils down to possession. If we have the ball and control it even if its a few passes up to the mids and there's no one there pass it back to the back line to move around the ball in our own end. How many games this year, last year ect have we sat on a lead and had 0% possession in the last 5 mins to stoppage time? Can't think of many.

brad
04-16-2013, 08:35 PM
Ball posession indeed. We break late because the other team needs to score and increases the pressure on us more. We don't hold the ball and eventually we break. Fatigue from long periods of not having posession and chasing to regain possession sets in and plays a role.

This is pretty basic stuff - football 101 really.

Abou Sky
04-16-2013, 08:47 PM
I get brads point, this isn't just an issue about possession, these are scars that run deep in some of the players. You can tell somebody that they need to hold on to possession, but that doesn't mean that deep down they're able to get over the trauma and actually keep possession.

CoachGT
04-16-2013, 08:59 PM
This is a question of mental fatigue and inability to maintain focus. It is not fitness nor is it (purely) player selection. But it only takes one person to falter for a few seconds to enable opponents. Add to that the confidence of opponents, especially when they play a team that plays kitty bar the door the way we have, giving opponents momentum.

A good sports psychologist might do wonders.

ArmenJBX
04-16-2013, 09:05 PM
​Here's a list of every late goal we have ever suffered:

2013

Toronto FC 2 - 2 Los Angeles Galaxy
Jose Villarreal scored a late acrobatic goal to bring LA back 2-2 against Toronto FC

Toronto FC 1-1 Philadelphia Union
Jack McInerney popped in a goal last week against Toronto FC really late into extra time.


2012

Los Angeles Galaxy 2 - 2 Toronto FC
Landon Donovan scored after the 90th minute during the two sides’ Champions League encounter.

Real Salt Lake 3 - 2 Toronto FC
Jonny Steele knocked one home to give RSL the lead in the 93rd minute.

Houston Dynamo 3 - 3 Toronto FC

Will Bruin punished Toronto FC’s defense late into extra time.


New England Revolution 2 - 2 Toronto FC

A scuffle in the box on the 94 minute mark saw Chris Tierney score.



2011

Seattle Sounders 1 - 0 Toronto FC

Freddy Montero hit Toronto FC on the 90’ to steal the points for Seattle.



DC United 3 - 3 Toronto FC

Dwayne De Rosario punished his old club in the 88th minute.



San Jose Earthquakes 1 - 1 Toronto FC

Chris Wondolowski found the back of the net in the 87th minute for San Jose.



New York Red Bulls 1 - 1 Toronto FC

Thierry Henry’s 88th minute wonder-goal split the points for New York.



2010

Philadelphia Union 2 - 1 Toronto FC

Sebastian Le Toux left it really late and scored in the 94th minute for Philly. 



Columbus Crew 2 - 2 Toronto FC
Will Hesmer, a GOALKEEPER (!!!) scored in the 94th minute, punishing Toronto.



2009

FC Dallas 1 - 1 Toronto FC
Pablo Ricchetti scored at the 87’, tying the game for Dallas.



FC Dallas 3 - 2 Toronto FC

Dallas struck again, more painfully this time, with Kenny Cooper in the 84th minute.



DC United 3 - 3 Toronto FC

Both Jaime Moreno and Chris Pontius scored after 85 minutes, making things level.



Columbus Crew 3 - 2 Toronto FC

Jason Garey’s 93rd minute effort gave Columbus another Trillium Cup.



San Jose Earthquakes 1 - 1 Toronto FC

Cornell Glen hit home in the 93’ and stole two points from TFC.

2008

Chicago Fire 2 - 1 Toronto FC

John Thorrington left it late but notched the win in the 92nd minute.



Real Salt Lake 2 - 1 Toronto FC

Robby Findley showed his skill and notched an 87th minute goal for RSL.



FC Dallas 2 - 0 Toronto FC

Kenny Cooper scored twice in the 81st minute and in extra time, killing off TFC.



New York Red Bulls 2 - 0 Toronto FC

Juan Pablo Angel scored in the 92nd minute, destroying Toronto FC’s positive pressure entirely. 



Chivas USA 2 - 1 Toronto FC

On the 95th minute mark, Atiba Harris broke Toronto hearts with a goal.



FC Dallas 2 - 2 Toronto FC

Kenny Cooper doled out the punishment for Toronto FC well past the 93rd minute.



Vancouver 2 - 2 Toronto FC
In their Nutrilite Canadian Championship encounter, Eduardo Sebrango’s 86th minute heroics gave NASL side Vancouver a valuable point.



2007

Kansas City Wizards 1 - 0 Toronto FC

Eddie Johnson hit Toronto in the 81st minute and won the game for the Wizards.



Columbus Crew 2 - 1 Toronto FC

Jacob Thomas scored in the 83rd minute and took three points to the Crew locker room. 



ensco
04-16-2013, 09:11 PM
We look for meaning in everything, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Ajax TFC
04-16-2013, 09:20 PM
I remember Tottenham suffered with this at the beginning of the season. AVB solved the problem by increasing the intensity in the last 15 minutes of their training sessions. This changed the mentality of the players and made them more dominant at the end of games and they've conceded a lot fewer late goals

jloome
04-16-2013, 09:21 PM
We look for meaning in everything, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Indeed. In fact, looking at that list, I'd say we're probably in the same boat as most other teams.

ensco
04-16-2013, 09:27 PM
There just isn't much to say. Who is going to be better at closing out games, teams where most of the players have been together for a couple of years, or TFC?

OgtheDim
04-16-2013, 09:28 PM
Every team has its quirks about when goals are scored for or against.

One thing is for sure. Whereas before this year, we could blame such goals on sub par fitness levels, this year this team is getting closer to MLS fitness levels.

notthesun
04-16-2013, 09:30 PM
Does anyone have any numbers for other teams conceding in the last 10 minutes in the past 3-5 years? How do we compare?

Cuppy
04-16-2013, 10:29 PM
Looks as though we have placed the panic button in the 90th min as to opposed the 80th in 2012. the rate we are going 2014 will see the panic button non-existent. still see a significant improvement and we will only grow and get stronger

khso11
04-16-2013, 11:28 PM
​Here's a list of every late goal we have ever suffered:

2013

Toronto FC 2 - 2 Los Angeles Galaxy
Jose Villarreal scored a late acrobatic goal to bring LA back 2-2 against Toronto FC

Toronto FC 1-1 Philadelphia Union
Jack McInerney popped in a goal last week against Toronto FC really late into extra time.


2012

Los Angeles Galaxy 2 - 2 Toronto FC
Landon Donovan scored after the 90th minute during the two sides’ Champions League encounter.

Real Salt Lake 3 - 2 Toronto FC
Jonny Steele knocked one home to give RSL the lead in the 93rd minute.

Houston Dynamo 3 - 3 Toronto FC

Will Bruin punished Toronto FC’s defense late into extra time.


New England Revolution 2 - 2 Toronto FC

A scuffle in the box on the 94 minute mark saw Chris Tierney score.



2011

Seattle Sounders 1 - 0 Toronto FC

Freddy Montero hit Toronto FC on the 90’ to steal the points for Seattle.



DC United 3 - 3 Toronto FC

Dwayne De Rosario punished his old club in the 88th minute.



San Jose Earthquakes 1 - 1 Toronto FC

Chris Wondolowski found the back of the net in the 87th minute for San Jose.



New York Red Bulls 1 - 1 Toronto FC

Thierry Henry’s 88th minute wonder-goal split the points for New York.



2010

Philadelphia Union 2 - 1 Toronto FC

Sebastian Le Toux left it really late and scored in the 94th minute for Philly. 



Columbus Crew 2 - 2 Toronto FC
Will Hesmer, a GOALKEEPER (!!!) scored in the 94th minute, punishing Toronto.



2009

FC Dallas 1 - 1 Toronto FC
Pablo Ricchetti scored at the 87’, tying the game for Dallas.



FC Dallas 3 - 2 Toronto FC

Dallas struck again, more painfully this time, with Kenny Cooper in the 84th minute.



DC United 3 - 3 Toronto FC

Both Jaime Moreno and Chris Pontius scored after 85 minutes, making things level.



Columbus Crew 3 - 2 Toronto FC

Jason Garey’s 93rd minute effort gave Columbus another Trillium Cup.



San Jose Earthquakes 1 - 1 Toronto FC

Cornell Glen hit home in the 93’ and stole two points from TFC.

2008

Chicago Fire 2 - 1 Toronto FC

John Thorrington left it late but notched the win in the 92nd minute.



Real Salt Lake 2 - 1 Toronto FC

Robby Findley showed his skill and notched an 87th minute goal for RSL.



FC Dallas 2 - 0 Toronto FC

Kenny Cooper scored twice in the 81st minute and in extra time, killing off TFC.



New York Red Bulls 2 - 0 Toronto FC

Juan Pablo Angel scored in the 92nd minute, destroying Toronto FC’s positive pressure entirely. 



Chivas USA 2 - 1 Toronto FC

On the 95th minute mark, Atiba Harris broke Toronto hearts with a goal.



FC Dallas 2 - 2 Toronto FC

Kenny Cooper doled out the punishment for Toronto FC well past the 93rd minute.



Vancouver 2 - 2 Toronto FC
In their Nutrilite Canadian Championship encounter, Eduardo Sebrango’s 86th minute heroics gave NASL side Vancouver a valuable point.



2007

Kansas City Wizards 1 - 0 Toronto FC

Eddie Johnson hit Toronto in the 81st minute and won the game for the Wizards.



Columbus Crew 2 - 1 Toronto FC

Jacob Thomas scored in the 83rd minute and took three points to the Crew locker room. 



i remember one from julius james, but i don't remember when it happened

TOBOR !
04-17-2013, 08:00 AM
The problem is not that for 85 minutes TFC tries to attack, and for 5 they defend, but in their notion of what defending is.

JuliquE
04-17-2013, 09:20 AM
There just isn't much to say. Who is going to be better at closing out games, teams where most of the players have been together for a couple of years, or TFC?
This, all day long; the stuff you need to effectively close out a game with regularity comes from continuity, from the locker room on up.

CoachGT
04-17-2013, 12:04 PM
Indeed. In fact, looking at that list, I'd say we're probably in the same boat as most other teams.

This is the truth. Statistically, you are more likely to be scored on in the last 15 or any half, moreso in the second half. We notice Toronto more because of our support. But the same happens of others - we just don't focus on it as often.

trane
04-17-2013, 01:58 PM
The world is coming an end, a post of Rudy' s I agree with.

trane
04-17-2013, 02:01 PM
CoachGT and Jloome, of course this is an issue for most teams, the more tiered you are the harder it is to defend. Still it has to be addressed to make us a better team. Run less ( no needless ball chasing) but stay in shape and position, and clearly keep on working on fitness and concentration.

CoachGT
04-17-2013, 04:08 PM
At the recent OSA Coaching Conference, John Herdman got up and spoke about why he wanted to coach Canada and what he needed to do to make it work. One of the first things he did was introduce psychology sessions for his team and himself. Got them to start thinking about their responsibilities and their actions. Why did the team in London finish so much better than the one I'm the womens World Cup? The key players were the same. Their abilities were comparable. But they believed they could do it, a belief instilled by their coach and themselves and nurtured through mental preparation.

Every team has these issues. Every coach has a different way of dealing with it. But mental preparation appears (to me) to be the key.

We're not there (yet).

Rudy
04-17-2013, 06:37 PM
I remember Tottenham suffered with this at the beginning of the season. AVB solved the problem by increasing the intensity in the last 15 minutes of their training sessions. This changed the mentality of the players and made them more dominant at the end of games and they've conceded a lot fewer late goals

sounds like an effective strategy. hype up the team towards the end instead of winding down....

Rudy
04-17-2013, 06:37 PM
The world is coming an end, a post of Rudy' s I agree with.

so funny Trane; didnt know we disgareed on everything....

trane
04-17-2013, 06:38 PM
CoachGT

I do not disagree. I just see it as concentration, mental focus, and yes belief in that if you keep on it, it will produce results. I would just say that it is helped by being fit, and organized.

And while it is good to run hard, at the end of the game staying in shape and compact defensively can do wonders were your legs are not what they were in the first 45 minutes of the game.

Rudy
04-17-2013, 06:39 PM
At the recent OSA Coaching Conference, John Herdman got up and spoke about why he wanted to coach Canada and what he needed to do to make it work. One of the first things he did was introduce psychology sessions for his team and himself. Got them to start thinking about their responsibilities and their actions. Why did the team in London finish so much better than the one I'm the womens World Cup? The key players were the same. Their abilities were comparable. But they believed they could do it, a belief instilled by their coach and themselves and nurtured through mental preparation.

Every team has these issues. Every coach has a different way of dealing with it. But mental preparation appears (to me) to be the key.

We're not there (yet).

Brillian idea. This is what i was alluding to. You need to tap into the psyche of the players; there mental and motivational fitness is more critical than their physical fitness. A sports psycologist is in order.

trane
04-17-2013, 06:41 PM
so funny Trane; didnt know we disgareed on everything....


Its hyperbole to make point, that this is a key issue, that can get us several steps ahead in the game.

CoachGT
04-17-2013, 06:46 PM
Brillian idea. This is what i was alluding to. You need to tap into the psyche of the players; there mental and motivational fitness is more critical than their physical fitness. A sports psycologist is in order.

MLSE has one one staff. He spoke at one of the TFC Coaching Conferences a while ago.

CoachGT
04-17-2013, 06:48 PM
CoachGT

I do not disagree. I just see it as concentration, mental focus, and yes belief in that if you keep on it, it will produce results. I would just say that it is helped by being fit, and organized.

And while it is good to run hard, at the end of the game staying in shape and compact defensively can do wonders were your legs are not what they were in the first 45 minutes of the game.


I believe a professional athlete should be in shape to play a full 90 no mattter what. Man U normally train for 120 minutes at speed just to ensure the capability of playing a full 90.

Not being fit is not an excuse for a professional athlete, not in this day and age. Match fit after an injury or a layoff, okay, but fitness for 90 minutes is a must.

Organization is a function of mental fitness. That has to be trained, too.

trane
04-17-2013, 07:19 PM
^ I agree.

I was going to say, and this goes a bit counter to what I have also perceived as a lack of concetration, that at times our players seem to be so anxious at not conceeding, that they follow the play so closely, that what they end up doing is ball watching, you see them all staring in the direction of the play, forgetting to be mindfull of the players around them, and so often leaving space and/or compleltely open players.

Richard
04-20-2013, 05:07 PM
We need a fucking exorcist and a vodoo practitioner.

Rudy
04-20-2013, 05:07 PM
Here we go again. Nelson must act immediately. This is a real problem.

Brooker
04-20-2013, 05:24 PM
When it's happening with this kind of frequency over the years, with an endless list of names, surely we must be doing this on purpose.

billyfly
04-20-2013, 06:48 PM
Gross

burlington Red
04-20-2013, 07:23 PM
surely fitness is a big component for teams who consistently concede in the dying mins, and BTW we have been doing this for a couple of seasons. Obviously mental strength is another component, the same way for yrs on end Man Utd continually grab late winning goals. I was very concerned at how tired Silva looked in this game

Stryker
04-20-2013, 10:46 PM
I guess this week the player who initially won the headed corner having pushed himself up off the shoulders of, and simultaneously held down his marker had nothing to do with it.
:rolleyes:

Blizzard
04-20-2013, 10:54 PM
It's an interesting list for reference purposes Armen but it means very little with respect to what is going on right now. Different coaches, different players (in the main) therefore part of our history but not part of our present. All that matters is 2013.


​Here's a list of every late goal we have ever suffered:

2013

Toronto FC 2 - 2 Los Angeles Galaxy
Jose Villarreal scored a late acrobatic goal to bring LA back 2-2 against Toronto FC

Toronto FC 1-1 Philadelphia Union
Jack McInerney popped in a goal last week against Toronto FC really late into extra time.





ArmenJBX
04-20-2013, 11:10 PM
Oh, I understand that. I posted that just for reference. I loved our performance today. It was a demonstration in the fundamentals of football. Results will come, and I think remembering that we went 0-9 this time last year is a good barometer of how much we have improved.

Blizzard
04-20-2013, 11:14 PM
Oh, I understand that. I posted that just for reference. I loved our performance today. It was a demonstration in the fundamentals of football. Results will come, and I think remembering that we went 0-9 this time last year is a good barometer of how much we have improved.

I do agree with you. The team did many, many things right today. The ball movement was the best we've seen this year most certainly. In terms of the little things, I loved Emery's sublime ball to Braun who's glancing header was very well saved by their keeper.

Auzzy
04-20-2013, 11:16 PM
We need a fucking exorcist and a vodoo practitioner.

Agreed. I was going to post, TFC needs a staff shaman!

Detroit_TFC
04-20-2013, 11:20 PM
This is a nightmare. This should happen at most twice a season, not once a week (almost). Very worried the squad is now stuck on this and are going to make mistakes trying to over-focus to not make a mistake.

TFC is loads better than last year but we're not getting the benefit of building confidence because of these stoppage time setbacks.

Blizzard
04-20-2013, 11:21 PM
Agreed. I was going to post, TFC needs a staff shaman!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/they-ll-put-a-spell-on-you-the-witchdoctors-of-african-football-a-699704.html

Cashcleaner
04-21-2013, 01:57 AM
This is a nightmare. This should happen at most twice a season, not once a week (almost). Very worried the squad is now stuck on this and are going to make mistakes trying to over-focus to not make a mistake.

TFC is loads better than last year but we're not getting the benefit of building confidence because of these stoppage time setbacks.

Agreed. Firstly, I think we have to acknowledge that there is more than a little bad luck going on here. This, my friends, is the epitome of a trend. We are completely losing our shit in the dying minutes. Los Angeles, Philly, and now Houston have all come from behind and scored equalizers in stoppage time - that's 3 games so far and we've only played 7 in the season! The chances of this happening is astronomically slim when you count up the minutes.

Now, I don't know what can be done on the coaching side of things, but I think you're absolutely right that the squad's morale has been dealt a blow by these results and it could very well affect us in future matches. I don't know what can be done to tackle the problem, but it's imperative Nelsen gets a grip on the matter.

MG42
04-21-2013, 08:42 AM
This is just beyond ridiculous.

CoachGT
04-21-2013, 11:16 AM
As a coach, there isn't a lot you can do to train for this. It is the result of the pressure of a game, long and hard fought, and the result of a few bad decisions in sequence by tired players who are not at their best for making decisions.

A bad play by Braun (the pass back) to Henry, who turns the ball over, leading to the swing of play into our zone. The bench is yelling to push the ball into the corner, 100m from goal, and Braun tries instead to maintain possession. Henry rushes the pass, right to the opposition. O'Dea tries to waste time, but instead concedes a corner. Poor positioning on defending for it.

Once, bad luck. Twice, there's an issue. Three times in a short period of time and Houston, we have a problem. Nelsen's post game comments indicate his frustration. What can you do?

Despite the changes and improvements, we still find ourselves one game away from the wooden spoon. With the same symptoms this team has suffered since inception. I'm terrified that this is as good as it gets.

T-boy
04-21-2013, 01:38 PM
The issue against Houston wasn't closing out the last minute, it was the intensity throughout the whole game. TFC exploded at the start of the second half, got the goal, got a red card - then their intensity lowered rapidly. At that point TFC "should" have gone on to score at least 1 or 2 more goals to close out the game. There is ALWAYS the danger that if you go into the final minutes with only one goal lead, that the oposition will get a chance. TFC needed to close the game earlier by being a couple of goals in the lead, especially with an extra man on the field. You can't keep going into injury time with only a one goal lead, that's extremely dangerous in any football game.

Having said that, on another day, TFC would have scored 3 goals and would be easily in the lead against Houston - TFC had more than enough chances before they lowered intensity to finsih off that game by the 60th minute. Hitting the bar, post, good saves by Hall etc, they had their chances, they just needed to finish them off.

notthesun
04-21-2013, 01:50 PM
I don't understand where this "we took the foot off the gas after the red card" is coming from. Directly after the card was Earnshaw's bicycle, then 5 minutes later Braun had his diving header saved, then 10 minutes after that Earnshaw hit the post. We never slowed down. We were on top of them all match. We just didn't finish our chances.

Blizzard
04-21-2013, 02:02 PM
I don't understand where this "we took the foot off the gas after the red card" is coming from. Directly after the card was Earnshaw's bicycle, then 5 minutes later Braun had his diving header saved, then 10 minutes after that Earnshaw hit the post. We never slowed down. We were on top of them all match. We just didn't finish our chances.

Yes, well said. A couple of bad decisions lost us the full three.

T-boy
04-21-2013, 02:20 PM
Yes, well said. A couple of bad decisions lost us the full three.

Not just a couple of bad decisions - football is a very fine-line sport - as I said in another thread - if that goal was 6 inches higher and wider, TFC would have scored around 6 goals! Nobody would care if we concede that one goal if we score 6! TFC just need to stop going into the last minute 1 goal in the lead, that's a dangerous thing to do!

ArmenJBX
04-21-2013, 02:34 PM
It's a little more than scoring more than one goal, as Dallas showed, when they were 2-0 up.

It's about seeing the game out. The game is played in three different philosophies; Start strong, score the goal, finish the game. Everything else is variables and factors that have to be overcome. The method, the style, the formation, the situations (red cards, injuries, etc) are all variables. The basic skeleton of the game is to start, score and finish.

Toronto has usually struggled with the variables as well as the key focuses. This isn't the case anymore. Toronto has improved tremendously in the execution of the game plan. Now they just need to see the whole plan through.

T-boy
04-21-2013, 02:44 PM
It's a little more than scoring more than one goal, as Dallas showed, when they were 2-0 up.

It's about seeing the game out. The game is played in three different philosophies; Start strong, score the goal, finish the game. Everything else is variables and factors that have to be overcome. The method, the style, the formation, the situations (red cards, injuries, etc) are all variables. The basic skeleton of the game is to start, score and finish.

Toronto has usually struggled with the variables as well as the key focuses. This isn't the case anymore. Toronto has improved tremendously in the execution of the game plan. Now they just need to see the whole plan through.

What I mean though, is that you can't keep going into the final minute just one goal ahead! You HAVE to score more than 1 goal. Scoring 1 goal per game is never going to bring success. You HAVE to score more. Teams ALWAYS get one chance sometime in a game. If you go into the final minute and the opponent hasn't had that chance, the law of averages usually means that they will still get a chance, its inevitable in football.

I undestand what you mean, but just going into the final minute over and over with just a one goal advantage is asking for trouble. TFC had more than enough chances yesterday to be 3 or 4 goals ahead going into injury time. It was frustrating the manner in which TFC dominated for vast portions of the game, and yet still couldn't convert that domination into goals. In the end, its goals that win games, not posession or chances or domination. TFC needed to convert their chances, and they had enough chances to win 5 games yesterday!

adam1001
04-21-2013, 03:26 PM
Exactly. We've fallen into this pattern of going up by a goal, and then moving into defense mode and hoping for the best. Right after Hall scored, i noticed the entire team visibly move their lines back. I don't know if Nelsen is instructing the team to do this, or if it's just psychological, but it's a bullshit tactic that never works. Even during the KC game, we were lucky as hell that they didn't tie it up in the last few minutes.


The issue against Houston wasn't closing out the last minute, it was the intensity throughout the whole game. TFC exploded at the start of the second half, got the goal, got a red card - then their intensity lowered rapidly. At that point TFC "should" have gone on to score at least 1 or 2 more goals to close out the game. There is ALWAYS the danger that if you go into the final minutes with only one goal lead, that the oposition will get a chance. TFC needed to close the game earlier by being a couple of goals in the lead, especially with an extra man on the field. You can't keep going into injury time with only a one goal lead, that's extremely dangerous in any football game.

Having said that, on another day, TFC would have scored 3 goals and would be easily in the lead against Houston - TFC had more than enough chances before they lowered intensity to finsih off that game by the 60th minute. Hitting the bar, post, good saves by Hall etc, they had their chances, they just needed to finish them off.

West220Side
04-21-2013, 03:53 PM
I've got a valid question to put forth to all of you. If Earnshaw had of netted a goal instead of hitting the cross bar (We're using the Houston match for reference) and ontop of that Hall's strike from 25 out. That puts us 2-0 up. Would we have conceded two late goals?

Maybe we just need to score more LOL.

Jings
04-21-2013, 05:04 PM
We need to get louder the last 10 minutes of games...everyone was getting nervous and quieter. If we truly are the " 12 man" we need to step up the support

T-boy
04-21-2013, 05:07 PM
I've got a valid question to put forth to all of you. If Earnshaw had of netted a goal instead of hitting the cross bar (We're using the Houston match for reference) and ontop of that Hall's strike from 25 out. That puts us 2-0 up. Would we have conceded two late goals?

Maybe we just need to score more LOL.

even the best teams in the world struggle to hold onto leads if they go into the final minutes only leading by one goal. I remember Man Utd at home to Crawley 3 years ago, Man Utd went up 1 goal, but the last few minutes were manic with tiny Crawley pushing hard and Man Utd kicking balls off the line. TFC just don't yet have the defensive quality to hold out that lead in the MLS. You really have to rely heavily on your defence if you think you can scrape out a one goal win. TFC really had to put their chances away yesterday to go into the final minutes. Until they can do that, they will always struggle to hold onto a win.

Detroit_TFC
04-21-2013, 05:22 PM
No, I don't think we give up 2 in stoppage. If we were up by 2 yesterday, I think we still give a late one but not 2. And I'm afraid that if we continue to give up the late goal regardless if results in dropped points, it will continue to compound the problem.

Abou Sky
04-21-2013, 06:43 PM
We need to get louder the last 10 minutes of games...everyone was getting nervous and quieter. If we truly are the " 12 man" we need to step up the support

Jings, I don't know you but I think I love you :-D

Why?

Because right or not, Jings just threw out the ONLY solution that we can implicate.

Jings, I am with you man, last 10 minutes we get a loud as possible! Next week let's build a roof then blow that mother fucker off!

Rudy
04-21-2013, 07:23 PM
Jings, I don't know you but I think I love you :-D

Why?

Because right or not, Jings just threw out the ONLY solution that we can implicate.

Jings, I am with you man, last 10 minutes we get a loud as possible! Next week let's build a roof then blow that mother fucker off!


I like this idea. Something must change towards the 85th minute to resolve the 90-min complex.....

Auzzy
04-21-2013, 07:32 PM
A 2-goal lead, vs. a 10-man Houston team, that wasn't playing very well even when they 11 on the field, and that was missing some of their best players by the end of the game -- I think it's more than likely that the win would have held. But you never know.

In any case, it's hard to expect perfection from our defense, even more so when all your best fullbacks are out, and when you're still missing one or two top players in defensive midfield. The late collapse was awful, but we have to realize: 1) overall TFC played better yesterday than vs. KC at the dome, just less lucky this time; 2) offence has to do their part to pot a few goals.

Those aren't the only problems for sure, but still part of the picture.

Abou Sky
04-21-2013, 11:19 PM
I like this idea. Something must change towards the 85th minute to resolve the 90-min complex.....

Ok, so how about a round up wind up get people going at Shoeless Joe's again?

FLUSH? BRING ON THE CREEPY MOFO FLYING MONKEY THIS!

This has totally upped my mood, we are going to crank this bad boy to 11!

Yohan
04-22-2013, 12:17 AM
Just watched SJ put in an injury time equalizer against Portland. SJ has been the team that takes points in injury time or close to it. And you gotta wonder (Wondo? lol) how they do it. What is Yallop's secret?

SJ plays the 'distasteful' direct football and crashes the box with strong target man strikers to win the ball and somebody pounces on a rebound or a loose ball. Simple, but it works. Tactics and having the right players for that tactics isn't all of it though. (No, I'm not asking Nelsen to have TFC play hoofball)

SJ players believe that they can do it. They have the mentality to fight till the end. Once they do it often enough, it becomes a confidence. Once they have the confidence and do it often enough, it becomes a habit. SJ players believe that they aren't out of a game until the final whistle is blown, because past results have shown that they score so many goals at the closing stage of the game. Goonies never die? SJ believes in their own hype. And make it the truth.

I'm a big proponent of mental preparation just as much as tactical preparation. I'm just as firm believer in getting average players but with right mentality more than a technical player with weak mentality. I think the mental game is underrated, because when you see teams impose their will on another team, sometimes technically superior team and you wonder how that happens. Classic example? TFC first ever win vs Chicago in 07. Even with TFC playing 10 man after Dichio got sent off, there was no way TFC was going to lose that game. Mentally, a weak TFC team dominated Chicago.

There is a big mental scar with TFC. In reverse of SJ, TFC has been scored on so many times in injury time and closing stage of the game that TFC no longer believes that they can close out the game, and the opposition takes confidence that they can score on TFC when a goal down or a tie because results have shown that TFC is weak closing out games.

It's a big mental block to overcome. And only way TFC will overcome this is by being able to close out one game. Good thing is that TFC is able to put itself it a position to take a lead into closing stages. Close out one game properly. Get confidence. Do it couple of more times and make it a habit. We'll see.

Carts
04-22-2013, 10:54 AM
We NEED to sign this guy... NOW... DP money if he demands it...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/MightyJoeMc/1k/movl0613.jpg

trane
04-22-2013, 11:13 AM
^ Who expects "perfection" ? Did you read coaches analyses, there are several bad decisions/plays. Every late goal that I have analysed for us, there was at least 3 or four mistakes, mostly, by 3 or four players, ball watching and/or out of position, here is a situation were several player make poor decisions/plays due to pressure.


You do not have to be perfect to huff the ball away out of trouble.

trane
04-22-2013, 11:17 AM
Just watched SJ put in an injury time equalizer against Portland. SJ has been the team that takes points in injury time or close to it. And you gotta wonder (Wondo? lol) how they do it. What is Yallop's secret?

SJ plays the 'distasteful' direct football and crashes the box with strong target man strikers to win the ball and somebody pounces on a rebound or a loose ball. Simple, but it works. Tactics and having the right players for that tactics isn't all of it though. (No, I'm not asking Nelsen to have TFC play hoofball)

SJ players believe that they can do it. They have the mentality to fight till the end. Once they do it often enough, it becomes a confidence. Once they have the confidence and do it often enough, it becomes a habit. SJ players believe that they aren't out of a game until the final whistle is blown, because past results have shown that they score so many goals at the closing stage of the game. Goonies never die? SJ believes in their own hype. And make it the truth.

I'm a big proponent of mental preparation just as much as tactical preparation. I'm just as firm believer in getting average players but with right mentality more than a technical player with weak mentality. I think the mental game is underrated, because when you see teams impose their will on another team, sometimes technically superior team and you wonder how that happens. Classic example? TFC first ever win vs Chicago in 07. Even with TFC playing 10 man after Dichio got sent off, there was no way TFC was going to lose that game. Mentally, a weak TFC team dominated Chicago.

There is a big mental scar with TFC. In reverse of SJ, TFC has been scored on so many times in injury time and closing stage of the game that TFC no longer believes that they can close out the game, and the opposition takes confidence that they can score on TFC when a goal down or a tie because results have shown that TFC is weak closing out games.

It's a big mental block to overcome. And only way TFC will overcome this is by being able to close out one game. Good thing is that TFC is able to put itself it a position to take a lead into closing stages. Close out one game properly. Get confidence. Do it couple of more times and make it a habit. We'll see.

Too me tactical/metal preparation gose hand in hand, each player must understand what he needs to do in any situation/position on the pitch in every different game situation.

Richard
04-22-2013, 02:11 PM
We NEED to sign this guy... NOW... DP money if he demands it...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/MightyJoeMc/1k/movl0613.jpg

W shall dub him "Sir Allocation"

Rudy
04-27-2013, 02:55 PM
I'm starting to cringe.....

Rudy
04-27-2013, 02:57 PM
i FUCKING KNEW IT.

notthesun
04-27-2013, 03:09 PM
The curse of MoJo strikes again.

The only way to get out of this is to get a run of close games where we don't concede late. And it doesn't look like we're anywhere near that happening.

JuliquE
04-27-2013, 03:28 PM
Our problem is that we play with too little urgency, to start the match, resulting in sloppy play and missed chances to bag a goal or two. The fact is conceding late, whilst probably more often an issue for us, is relatively common in this league -- heck, New York can certainly attest to that fact; the level of concentration required is arguably a feat to behold in the top leagues around the world and, whilst certainly possible in MLS, it's a weak point and you simply have to compensate, by not finding yourself in the position -- exploiting the areas you can have more of a say in controlling.

I'd say the bigger problem is the 1st Minute Complex.

JoeyB
04-27-2013, 05:02 PM
Our problem is that we play with too little urgency, to start the match, resulting in sloppy play and missed chances to bag a goal or two. The fact is conceding late, whilst probably more often an issue for us, is relatively common in this league -- heck, New York can certainly attest to that fact; the level of concentration required is arguably a feat to behold in the top leagues around the world and, whilst certainly possible in MLS, it's a weak point and you simply have to compensate, by not finding yourself in the position -- exploiting the areas you can have more of a say in controlling.

I'd say the bigger problem is the 1st Minute Complex.

Today's colaspe is down to wanting to win the Amway Cup game midweek. Tired legs. Montreal is up 2-0 against the Fire today. Why? they had less starters playing against us. Bernier didn't even start today for them. They made a choice to field an 88 pound weakling team mid-week. And I bet they do the same next week.

Nelsen is to blame. It's his team. His tactics. Simple. Once- okay it's the guys. This many times...well....

MLSE has to make a choice. Making the play-offs or playing a few extra games against Nicaraguan and Honduran semi-pro teams before getting hammered by professional Mexican teams. I choose play-offs over that any day.

It's time for the management of this club to grow up.

HuTor
04-27-2013, 05:14 PM
Today's colaspe is down to wanting to win the Amway Cup game midweek. Tired legs. Montreal is up 2-0 against the Fire today. Why? they had less starters playing against us. Bernier didn't even start today for them. They made a choice to field an 88 pound weakling team mid-week. And I bet they do the same next week.

Nelsen is to blame. It's his team. His tactics. Simple. Once- okay it's the guys. This many times...well....

MLSE has to make a choice. Making the play-offs or playing a few extra games against Nicaraguan and Honduran semi-pro teams before getting hammered by professional Mexican teams. I choose play-offs over that any day.

It's time for the management of this club to grow up.

:facepalm:

Well... no!

It's because the quality of players this team can field at present is still 3-4 basic players far from being a competitive team vs MLS standards.

backbeat
04-27-2013, 05:25 PM
Today's colaspe is down to wanting to win the Amway Cup game midweek. Tired legs. Montreal is up 2-0 against the Fire today. Why? they had less starters playing against us. Bernier didn't even start today for them. They made a choice to field an 88 pound weakling team mid-week. And I bet they do the same next week.

Nelsen is to blame. It's his team. His tactics. Simple. Once- okay it's the guys. This many times...well....

MLSE has to make a choice. Making the play-offs or playing a few extra games against Nicaraguan and Honduran semi-pro teams before getting hammered by professional Mexican teams. I choose play-offs over that any day.

It's time for the management of this club to grow up.


HUH? We started a 'B' team last Wednesday - there were 9 players on TFC Wednesday that didn't start the last MLS game compared to 6 for the L'Impact

JuliquE
04-27-2013, 05:29 PM
HUH? We started a 'B' team last Wednesday - there were 9 players on TFC Wednesday that didn't start the last MLS game compared to 6 for the L'Impact
This.

tfcleeds
04-27-2013, 05:49 PM
Oh, and to add to that, Montreal played Chicago, who are quite frankly, shite. Perhaps even worse than us.

brad
04-27-2013, 05:52 PM
We played poorly today - but the late goal today was a screw up by a young player that was capitalized on by a couple of quality players. Morgan puts his foot through that ball instead of shanking it right to the NYRB player, and there is no goal. No more, no less.

It's quite possible that Morgan (and others ) was playing scared near the end due how often we bottle it at the end.

Abou Sky
04-28-2013, 08:51 PM
I FIGURED IT OUT!!! (I think)

Got to watch my son play a fantastic game today, he likes playing holding mid and he played the best game I have seen him play.

He KILLED it in the first half, (25 min halfs) he was right on top of anyone coming close, never gave anyone any room to breathe and he was taking the ball and bringing it up left/right/mid and servicing, he also decided to go for a goal and at the end of the first half he had a goal an assist and both other goals started with balls he took and started plays on. End of first half, 4-0 and I seriously don't think the keeper had to make a save.

Second half, he still played well, but after the first 10 minutes he was winded. In boxing, this is called 'punching yourself out'. He wasn't nearly as effective and the final score was 7-3 and the only reason for that is because the keeper was a hero, it could have easily been a tied game.

I think, and I am not an expert but I THINK that TFC are 'punching themselves out'

They are killing it for the first 60+ minutes, sometimes quite pointlessly. It is nice to pressure the ball to make the opposition make mistakes but if you are 30-40 yards out the opponent still has plenty of time, how much walking do you see in the last bit of a game? Seems quite a bit.

It isn't that they aren't fit, they are fit, but no matter how fit you are, if you sprint the first part of a marathon, you can't finish it.

I guess 'fixing' it would come down to being sure to use all your subs and figuring out how to have the guys save some gas from earlier on in the game.

Thoughts on this?

CoachGT
04-28-2013, 09:55 PM
That suggests that fitness is still the issue. Admittedly, it was the issue for a couple of years in the beginning. And quite possibly last year as well, as the season progressed. It should not be an issue for professional athletes that are healthy. Maybe guys coming back from an injury get a pass for a couple of games, thus the need for subs. Otherwise, not.

Yesterday, Morgan tried to clear the ball using his wrong foot, his right. Something that most of this team don't have the balls to do. Eckersley is one footed, as are the majority of players in MLS. Given the mistake, I fear that Morgan may never try it again, at least not for a while. Bad clearance, yes, but one that took considerable courage to even try.

It doesn't excuse the issue - I still think it is a mental block. I wonder as well about O'Dea. We've only won once when he has been in the lineup, the KC game. That is his ONLY win while wearing a TFC kit. Kinda makes you wonder.

brad
04-30-2013, 07:14 AM
I think TFC are approaching this situation the wrong way. I say - roll with it. Lets focus on scoring 3 or 4 every game and not worrying about a goal or two in the dying minutes.:D

Derko
04-30-2013, 07:42 AM
I think TFC are approaching this situation the wrong way. I say - roll with it. Lets focus on scoring 3 or 4 every game and not worrying about a goal or two in the dying minutes.:D

Agreed^
The Ian Holloway and The Blackpool tactics, Win 4-3, who really gives a fuck, just score more goals than you allow the opposition, that is what we call winning the game, playing for a draw is useless, much like playing to win 1-nil

OgtheDim
04-30-2013, 09:09 AM
Nelsen ain't gonna do a Holloway.

trane
04-30-2013, 09:44 AM
That suggests that fitness is still the issue. Admittedly, it was the issue for a couple of years in the beginning. And quite possibly last year as well, as the season progressed. It should not be an issue for professional athletes that are healthy. Maybe guys coming back from an injury get a pass for a couple of games, thus the need for subs. Otherwise, not.

Yesterday, Morgan tried to clear the ball using his wrong foot, his right. Something that most of this team don't have the balls to do. Eckersley is one footed, as are the majority of players in MLS. Given the mistake, I fear that Morgan may never try it again, at least not for a while. Bad clearance, yes, but one that took considerable courage to even try.

It doesn't excuse the issue - I still think it is a mental block. I wonder as well about O'Dea. We've only won once when he has been in the lineup, the KC game. That is his ONLY win while wearing a TFC kit. Kinda makes you wonder.

I cannot understand that. Sure all player favour one foot over the other, but since I was a kid most kids that played with me all could use the weaker foot when it was needed, I do not understand how one footed so many MSL players seem to be. Sure if I needed to hoof the ball down the field, or if I ever took a shot on net. I would use my right, but anything shorter then I can use both feed if needed.

trane
04-30-2013, 09:46 AM
I think TFC are approaching this situation the wrong way. I say - roll with it. Lets focus on scoring 3 or 4 every game and not worrying about a goal or two in the dying minutes.:D

First, scoring 3 of four goals is harded to achieve then keeping it to 1 goal or less a game. Second, if you conceded easy goals, you may score 3 or 4 but you are likely to concede 4-5.

brad
04-30-2013, 09:55 AM
First, scoring 3 of four goals is harded to achieve then keeping it to 1 goal or less a game. Second, if you conceded easy goals, you may score 3 or 4 but you are likely to concede 4-5.

I know - it was tongue in cheek - hence the smiley thing after.

TOBOR !
04-30-2013, 10:00 AM
When you have the ball, you attack the goal, when you don't have the ball, you attack the ball. Defending is a by-product of this.

Defending should not be seen as 'protecting' the goal. Once you fall back into that philosophy you are doomed.

Ajax TFC
04-30-2013, 10:32 AM
When you have the ball, you attack the goal, when you don't have the ball, you attack the ball. Defending is a by-product of this.

Defending should not be seen as 'protecting' the goal. Once you fall back into that philosophy you are doomed.
I would rep this if I could. As the great Pep Guardiola said "sometimes we forget that it's a game of 11 vs 11 with ONE ball"

Detroit_TFC
04-30-2013, 11:26 AM
When you have the ball, you attack the goal, when you don't have the ball, you attack the ball. Defending is a by-product of this.

Defending should not be seen as 'protecting' the goal. Once you fall back into that philosophy you are doomed.

this is money, but how many people actually comprehend this?

Carts
04-30-2013, 11:40 AM
When you have the ball, you attack the goal, when you don't have the ball, you attack the ball. Defending is a by-product of this.

Defending should not be seen as 'protecting' the goal. Once you fall back into that philosophy you are doomed.

100% SPOT ON...

Why doesn't everyone do it - FEAR... People become afraid of making a mistake by attacking the ball, so instead they fall back and protect (THEMSELVES) the goal...

Once you play passive, you open yourself up to getting burned...

It's like in international friendlies - there's so many injuries, b/c so many players are playing afraid of getting injured...

ProfessorDamage
04-30-2013, 11:48 AM
Nelsen should start his pregame pep talk by saying "I want you to close your eyes and I want you to pretend it's fucking half-time. You're down a goal, the usual limp-dick first 20 minutes you put out there EVERY FUCKING GAME are over, and now you have to play catch-up. Play like you played against Dallas, where everything is an opportunity to ATTACK. Offensive driving. Control the ball, its pace, and give them no fucking room. And don't panic when you're defending and you win the ball. Don't hoof it up field - Wiedeman, you little shit, don't head the ball behind you without looking first. That's how you'll realize there's NO ONE THERE EVERY TIME YOU TRY THIS MOVE. Remember, the ball wants to move, so make it move. Move the ball. Move the ball. That's how you open them up. Now go out there and give the supporters the best second-half first half they've ever seen out of you."

trane
04-30-2013, 03:11 PM
PART of defending is attacking the ball, but staying in shape (formation), following play, covering your mark, cutting down the lanes, ect.ect, many small things. Just pressing to attack the ball can also lead to problems when you leave room for the ball to be passed behind you.


Pep is a great manager, his teams primary method of defending (at least with Barca) was too hold on to the ball. But you need a more skilled team, and in many ways you need the same skills you need when defending, to make sure that you are moving as a group in a manner were options remain open for the passer, were you are sure that you are not vulnerable to the counter.

Sometimes reading these boards, it seems people seem to forget this is a team game. You need know how to play as a team to get the best results from everyone, an efficient team with decent talent can beat a team of 11 world class but unorganized players ( you see that in world cups all the time, teams with great world class talent losing to a well organized team made of much worst talent).

Derko
04-30-2013, 06:50 PM
PART of defending is attacking the ball, but staying in shape (formation), following play, covering your mark, cutting down the lanes, ect.ect, many small things. Just pressing to attack the ball can also lead to problems when you leave room for the ball to be passed behind you.


Pep is a great manager, his teams primary method of defending (at least with Barca) was too hold on to the ball. But you need a more skilled team, and in many ways you need the same skills you need when defending, to make sure that you are moving as a group in a manner were options remain open for the passer, were you are sure that you are not vulnerable to the counter.

Sometimes reading these boards, it seems people seem to forget this is a team game. You need know how to play as a team to get the best results from everyone, an efficient team with decent talent can beat a team of 11 world class but unorganized players ( you see that in world cups all the time, teams with great world class talent losing to a well organized team made of much worst talent).

How true, how many times has the Netherlands shit the bed, and look at Germany last year, I would say that they were more skilled than Italy, but Italy were by far more organized,:hump:

TOBOR !
05-01-2013, 07:26 AM
PART of defending is attacking the ball, but staying in shape (formation), following play, covering your mark, cutting down the lanes, ect.ect, many small things. Just pressing to attack the ball can also lead to problems when you leave room for the ball to be passed behind you.

Sort of.

Attacking the ball is a defensive (and also offensive) principle. You need to do the other things you mention as well, as you would if you opted to absorb pressure in the manner of protecting your goal.

Think of it like choosing to meet your enemy at his front door, or in open fields, rather than retreating inside your own castle and hoping your gates can withstand his battering ram.

brad
05-01-2013, 07:36 AM
How true, how many times has the Netherlands shit the bed, and look at Germany last year, I would say that they were more skilled than Italy, but Italy were by far more organized,:hump:

Greece winning Euro is the ultimate recent example of what a well organized, defensively solid, lower talent team can accomplish (along with a bit of luck)

trane
05-01-2013, 09:15 AM
How true, how many times has the Netherlands shit the bed, and look at Germany last year, I would say that they were more skilled than Italy, but Italy were by far more organized,:hump:

I will not take the bate.

Germany for the most part are a very organized side, they like Spain and Italy, have a national way of playing football and build around players from one or two clubs, and most of their players play in the national league ( in 2012 Italy Juventus, Germany Bayern, Spain Barca) plus most players brought in from other clubs play in similar systems philosophy they are good fits. Italy and German were very close in organization and talent ( German having a younge team last Euro) BUT WE HAD PIRLO AND BALO and Germany did not, so we won 2-0.

Rudy
05-04-2013, 09:58 PM
What BS explanation will some be giving now? The complex and alive and well.
I am not the least bit mad or surprised at this point.

Brooker
05-04-2013, 10:37 PM
On the positive side, no relegation. :flare:

Stryker
05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
*Emory has easy clearence fall to his feet, looks up at clock, falls on his face like he took a sniper shot to the back of the head.

Abou Sky
05-04-2013, 10:40 PM
What BS explanation will some be giving now? The complex and alive and well.
I am not the least bit mad or surprised at this point.

He slipped, he actually for real fucking slipped.

Most athletes and fans are superstitious and this is just going to add to it.

I was really hoping that they could break it for a game or two and lose the idea of a 'curse' but it is just going to get embedded more strongly in their psyche with this one.

Of course, with that many corners and free kicks you should score AT LEAST ONE GOAL! don't they practice set pieces?

TOBOR !
05-04-2013, 11:44 PM
You have to laugh.

DoubleUp
05-04-2013, 11:53 PM
How true, how many times has the Netherlands shit the bed, and look at Germany last year, I would say that they were more skilled than Italy, but Italy were by far more organized,:hump:

Italians like brazilian and now recently spain, have turned footballing into an art, while other nations still interpret it as sport.


You are correct that Germany is a more Talented side but Italians are by far the most tactically astute when it comes to football, their teams might not always possess the best Talent but they make up for it with their organization and general understanding of how the game is played.

The Germans are like a machine, but even machines breakdown.

Detroit_TFC
05-05-2013, 08:54 AM
Last night wasn't a defensive collapse. It was a defensive error. We lost the game because of a failure to get the job done on the attacking end.

T-boy
05-05-2013, 09:53 AM
Last night wasn't a defensive collapse. It was a defensive error. We lost the game because of a failure to get the job done on the attacking end.

I would agree. Players can make a mistake, that's life. But the attack cant miss chance after chance through a game. TFC's issue right now is that the don't have a plan B for attack - if Earnshaw is off form for a game, there isn't much else in reserve to replace him or find an alternative. When Braun is injured, we don't have another experienced big forward. This is just down to having insufficient pre season time to find another striker to formulate a plan b. I don't think this is Nelson's fault, its just one of those things this season.

deltox
05-05-2013, 10:00 AM
it might happen

Corpand
05-05-2013, 10:06 AM
This is sad.

Fort York Redcoat
05-05-2013, 10:08 AM
What BS explanation will some be giving now? The complex and alive and well.
I am not the least bit mad or surprised at this point.

I don't think anyone was surprised. You do sound a bit mad about it, though. We all should be. It's frustrating.

airstream
05-05-2013, 10:19 AM
Imagine our winning record if this was true!

Morlesio14
05-05-2013, 10:36 AM
No it wont

T-boy
05-05-2013, 10:36 AM
When this passes at MLS, TFC will quickly become the expert in conceding goals in the 79th minute!

Richard
05-05-2013, 12:17 PM
http://www.glenndavissoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/voodoo-dolls-large-2.jpg

__wowza
05-05-2013, 03:41 PM
He slipped, he actually for real fucking slipped.

Most athletes and fans are superstitious and this is just going to add to it.

this. the announcers made mention of it, i made mention of it, several others made mention of it. i don't know what the fuck happened to the pitch last night, but i saw at least 20 spills. if this happened in the 40th minute, no one would've batted a lash (it still would've sucked).. but now all people are reading in the headlines are "another late goal blah blah blah".


Last night wasn't a defensive collapse. It was a defensive error. We lost the game because of a failure to get the job done on the attacking end.

not really, there were a few times in the game where people sauntered in absolutely unmarked. i don't remember who, but i can count 3 instances where bendik was left on his own to make the save and did his best to control the rebound. if frei was in net (i've always rated his rebound control well below kocic/bendik) we could've easily lost 3-0. we were much better, don't get me wrong, but ultimately you're right, we do lose because we couldn't finish.

what the fuck is silva doing as a striker!?

__wowza
05-05-2013, 04:10 PM
Imagine our winning record if this was true!

well, if we ended each game after 80 minutes we'd have lost to dallas instead of tied, but for the most part.. it's still not pretty.
let's say we stopped leaking goals after the 80th and counted goals we scored after the 80th. as of today the table would look like this..



1
FC Dallas (http://www.fcdallas.com/)
20


2
Montreal Impact (http://www.impactmontreal.com/)
17


3
New York Red Bulls (http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/)
16


4
Toronto FC (http://www.torontofc.ca/)
15


5
Portland Timbers (http://www.portlandtimbers.com/)
14


6
Sporting Kansas City (http://www.sportingkc.com/)
14


7
Real Salt Lake (http://www.realsaltlake.com/)
14


8
Columbus Crew (http://www.thecrew.com/)
12


9
LA Galaxy (http://www.lagalaxy.com/)
12


10
Houston Dynamo (http://www.houstondynamo.com/)
12


11
Chivas USA (http://www.cdchivasusa.com/)
11


12
San Jose Earthquakes (http://www.sjearthquakes.com/)
11


13
Philadelphia Union (http://www.philadelphiaunion.com/)
10


14
Colorado Rapids (http://www.coloradorapids.com/)
10


15
Vancouver Whitecaps (http://www.whitecapsfc.com/)
9


16
New England Revolution (http://revolutionsoccer.net/)
9


17
Chicago Fire (http://www.chicago-fire.com/)
7


18
Seattle Sounders FC (http://www.soundersfc.com/)
6


19
D.C. United (http://www.dcunited.com/)
4



that's us.. fourth in the league. in a playoff spot, 3rd in the east, and contending for the supporter shield with a 2 games in hand against NY and 1 game back of the impact. aside from that, another interesting fact is that 39% of our goals against has come after the last 15 minutes of the game.

i dont know if those are supposed to make you feel better or worse.


When this passes at MLS, TFC will quickly become the expert in conceding goals in the 79th minute!

had a good laugh at this.

Yohan
05-05-2013, 04:51 PM
Silva was used as second striker last season with some success

CoachGT
05-05-2013, 06:56 PM
There were two slips on the goal. Emory, as a LB, was in a supporting role behind O'Dea. A left back really isn't in a position to really defend one on one in the middle of the box against a striker, the LB in this case was the second man intending to outnumber the opponent. When O'Dea went down first, it overmatched Emory who, under pressure, miskicked the ball (much as Morgan had last week).

I think there were two mistakes in this, not just one, but nobody seems to notice the first problem and focuses on the second one.

ExiledRed
05-05-2013, 07:15 PM
Every single time you see a TFC player in the opposing teams corner, trying to waste the last few minutes of the game you know that were going to concede a goal. Similarly, when a defensive change is made toward the end of the game, we are going to concede a goal.

Playing like twats in the last ten minutes usually means you end up looking like twats.

jazzy
05-05-2013, 07:32 PM
On the positive side, no relegation. :flare:

on the negative side no relegation...........:)

Auzzy
05-05-2013, 07:38 PM
There were two slips on the goal. Emory, as a LB, was in a supporting role behind O'Dea. A left back really isn't in a position to really defend one on one in the middle of the box against a striker, the LB in this case was the second man intending to outnumber the opponent. When O'Dea went down first, it overmatched Emory who, under pressure, miskicked the ball (much as Morgan had last week).

I think there were two mistakes in this, not just one, but nobody seems to notice the first problem and focuses on the second one.

I agree! Other mistakes:
- Endlessly conceding possession especially towards the end of the game. TFC actually had some good spells of possession & good pressure on the Colorado goal in the 2nd half, but they started tiring. Nelsen made the subs way too late, especially considering they were playing at altitude. It was getting me very worried & I mentioned it in the game thread. Osorio and Bostock for example could have helped earlier. Booming throw-ins & kicks from Bendik to no one in particular also don't help with maintaining possession.

- Tied to late subs, tiring players, and general lack of focus: TFC started to leave Colorado huge amounts of room when teeing up to put crosses into the box. I was getting a sickening feeling towards the end of the game, way before the goal was scored.

- It was obvious both teams were slipping all over the place for most of the game -- it was worse for TFC though. The pitch had been made way too wet. Couldn't TFC have done something with their shoes at halftime to improve their traction?

Summary: if you keep letting them lob crosses into the box under little pressure, on a field with bad traction, and tiring defenders, shit's gonna happen.

Oh & everybody should get ready to enjoy themselves on Wednesday: San Jose are the masters of late-game heroics. Yesterday again: "Sam Cronin scored in the first minute of second-half injury time to salvage a 2-2 tie for the San Jose Earthquakes against Eastern Conference leaders the Montreal Impact on Saturday afternoon."

Ivy
05-05-2013, 07:40 PM
Omg TFC at 4th looks so good.. I've been starring at it for like 4 minutes.

OgtheDim
05-05-2013, 08:29 PM
Silva was used as second striker last season with some success

Was that with Koevs? Tactically, Silva looks less dangerous playing beside Earnshaw, then he does when he's our AM. And I thought Silva looked even better when we had Braun up front as it opened up lanes for his passing.

T-boy
05-05-2013, 08:35 PM
Either way, we have looked better with Braun playing the last few weeks. He's one physical presence that neither Silva or Earnshaw bring to the attack. We NEED somebody more physical beside Earnshaw. A fit Koevs, or somebody like him, can't come quick enough.

Abou Sky
05-05-2013, 08:54 PM
Silva was used as second striker last season with some success

Beside DK though, not really the same.

__wowza
05-05-2013, 09:09 PM
We NEED to sign this guy... NOW... DP money if he demands it...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/MightyJoeMc/1k/movl0613.jpg

harris: you trying to say jesus christ can't hit a curveball?

__wowza
05-05-2013, 09:13 PM
Omg TFC at 4th looks so good.. I've been starring at it for like 4 minutes.

i like to quietly think about that myself whenever anyone accuses us of being "completely outplayed/outclassed the entire game".

lobo
05-05-2013, 09:15 PM
Last night wasn't a defensive collapse. It was a defensive error. We lost the game because of a failure to get the job done on the attacking end.

yep. and we had our chances, put too many right at the keeper. earnshaw had 3 great opportunities. lots of useless corners.


what the fuck is silva doing as a striker!?

doin his best, i thought. you prefer the weedman? silva pulled down more than his share of those long balls, he created chances, had a few of his own good scoring chances. i agree silva is better as AM but we could have done worse last night at striker.

Oldtimer
05-05-2013, 09:19 PM
How is this thread different from this thread?:

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?34002-The-90th-Minute-Complex/page4

__wowza
05-05-2013, 09:25 PM
doin his best, i thought. you prefer the weedman? silva pulled down more than his share of those long balls, he created chances, had a few of his own good scoring chances. i agree silva is better as AM but we could have done worse last night at striker.

i know. im just bitter :facepalm:
unremarkably, putting him up there also hinders his greatest trait: his vision.

he'd be a great false 9.

Brooker
05-05-2013, 11:12 PM
on the negative side no relegation...........:)


Please no. I can only handle 1 relegation fight at a time.

Rudy
05-08-2013, 11:31 PM
Wow.... you can now predict this with certainty. The complex is alive and well........

Yohan
05-10-2013, 08:59 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/05/10/opta-spotlight-ryan-nelsen-calls-toronto-fc-soft-whats-behind-their-late-gam

Analysis using opta data

TOBOR !
05-10-2013, 09:34 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/05/10/opta-spotlight-ryan-nelsen-calls-toronto-fc-soft-whats-behind-their-late-gam

Analysis using opta data


TFC actually hold more possession in the final third, rack up more clearances, blocks and interceptions (CBI) and earn more set-piece opportunities late in games

I'm going to interpret the above quote in the following manner :

An increase in TFC's CBI is an indicator that we are defending, and by defending I mean we have fallen back to a defensive position. We have collapsed back in on our own goal and are weathering the other team's attack. It's the same philosphical error we make week in and week out.

Further to this, the increase in set plays is probably nothing more than the number of resultant goal kicks from the opposition's wayward attempts to score.

OgtheDim
05-14-2013, 06:04 AM
Well........it seems to be catching within MLSE.

razor787
05-14-2013, 06:24 AM
I find it comical that as soon as payne says tfc needs to take after the leafs in the solidity of the team from start to finish, the leafs have a meltdown of their own.

If it happens again, its then it shows the players are listening :P