Apparently we were "classless" in Chicago

[MG42]

Last-minute winner caps perfect night for FireBy STEPHEN WATTLESIt was the near perfect evening for the Fire to turn things around. The evening was warm but not the stifling summer heat that turns so many midseason MLS encounters into snore fests. Nice enough in fact that it wasn’t hard to ignore the classless Canadians who had shown up in the hundreds to once again disrespect our national anthem and drink as if they’ve never seen beer before. READ MOREhttp://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/fire-2-toronto.html

[Fort York Redcoat]

READ MOREhttp://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/fire-2-toronto.html (http://64.13.252.151:80/forums/\"http://64.13.252.151:80/forums/\\"http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/fire-2-toronto.html\\"\")
SORRRY ABOUT THE WIERD TYPING I\"M ON HERE THROUGH PROXY :(

Disrespect how? I didn't hear booing. This is so common in playoff scenarios in other sports. Both countries get so desperate to dig at the other the journos just outright lie. "Was that a boo?" "Do they have their caps on?" "Disrespect". How many fights broke out you whiners. It's this continents answer to reporting on away support.

[Mrs. Workie]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's a great joke...really...funniest thing I've heard all day.

Weren't you guys singing their national anthem louder than them?

[Eastend]

link doesn't work for me.

[Eastend]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's a great joke...really...funniest thing I've heard all day.

Weren't you guys singing their national anthem louder than them?


I guess that was the disrespect. Showing them up on national tv.

[MG42]

link doesn\'t work for me.Just go to Soccer By Ives to the TFC vs Fire Supporters View. I\'m on here through a proxy so everthing gets screwed up :(

[Dave67]

1. It was tough to hear the anthem start up.
2. As soon as we were sure it had started Black & White was loud and direct to the supporters. He yelled remove your hats and be quiet.
3. The huge majority followed the request. Hats were removed and we were quiet.
4. 1/2 way through the anthem when it was apparent the Chicago fans would not even sing their own anthem we picked it up. We sang their anthem loudly word for word. We did not bastardize it.
5. When we did this I could clearly see the Chicago fans around us smile. They applauded the effort loudly around us.
6. Stadium security said it gave them goosebumps.

Whoever wrote this can fuck off.

[MG42]

can a mod please remove all of the \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\from the title please

[The Pope]

^ send that to Ives, he'll probably update his blog with our side of things

[Dave67]

I sent Ives my comments. I believe he has removed anything to do with classless Canadians and the anthem from the post.

[Pyeddo]

I find this funny... we were applauded for singing (both of) the National anthems from the sections to either side of us annnnnnnnnnd there's pictures to prove that fact. So... we can call that debunked.

As for the drinking? Here's your answer: Your shitty 4% beer doesn't phase us, so we had to drink 10x as much to even approach a buzz.

PS. While I appreciate why they had someone using a speak&spell to sing their national anthem and maybe, just maybe we should have been quiet, I've never in my life heard a person complain for another person passionately singing their national anthem (properly, without ad-lib).


Post synopsis: Fuck Chicago, Fuck Fuck Shitcago

[Carts]

classless Canadians who had shown up in the hundreds to once again disrespect our national anthem

The moron who wrote this (not the poster here) should have a nice long talk with the security guards at the next Fire game...

He said, quote "...that gave me chills... I have never heard our anthem sung like that..."

We were not only respectful, but were patriotic to our neighbors to the north to which we were visiting...

Carts...

PS: funny thing, I actually have the security officers business card and contact information - perhaps an e-mail to him is in order to tell him what their fans think of Canadians singing the American National Anthem...

[FluSH]

Can someone write to this banana and inform him that WE are proud to sign our national anthem and do so out of respect. Just like we sang the last part of their anthem out of respect. It's a differance in cultures however this moron doesn't have a clue.

[Dave67]

Can someone write to this banana and inform him that WE are proud to sign our national anthem and do so out of respect. Just like we sang the last part of their anthem out of respect. It's a differance in cultures however this moron doesn't have a clue.


I sent Ives my comments. I believe he has removed anything to do with classless Canadians and the anthem from the post.

Done & done

[shaunsas]

Comments deleted.

[shaunsas]

The moron who wrote this (not the poster here) should have a nice long talk with the security guards at the next Fire game...

He said, quote "...that gave me chills... I have never heard our anthem sung like that..."

We were not only respectful, but were patriotic to our neighbors to the north to which we were visiting...

Carts...

PS: funny thing, I actually have the security officers business card and contact information - perhaps an e-mail to him is in order to tell him what their fans think of Canadians singing the American National Anthem...
Mc you should send in the security card information to him... make him write a retraction statement...

send it in.

[blackandwhite]

Was he one of the fuckers who got his ass kicked?? probably not. This guy doesn't sound like he has to balls to even get near that kinda stuff...

and the landycakes fan award goes to....

[shaunsas]

I find this funny... we were applauded for singing (both of) the National anthems from the sections to either side of us annnnnnnnnnd there's pictures to prove that fact. So... we can call that debunked.

As for the drinking? Here's your answer: Your shitty 4% beer doesn't phase us, so we had to drink 10x as much to even approach a buzz.

PS. While I appreciate why they had someone using a speak&spell to sing their national anthem and maybe, just maybe we should have been quiet, I've never in my life heard a person complain for another person passionately singing their national anthem (properly, without ad-lib).


Post synopsis: Fuck Chicago, Fuck Fuck Shitcago
apparently we saw the same thing and the same point of view shit beer / speak n spell...

observant-canadian-drunk-anthem-singing-ruiner !

see you at the next game

[Dave67]

A Fire fans response

"
Stephen--
You need to edit your article. I am a Fire supporter, but to be fair, the guys (and gals) that came down from North of the boarder were a far better turnout than any other club; and no, I don't include confused real Chivas fans coming out when the fake goats are in town. Not only that, but a few of them made it all the way to the oposite side of the lot and tailgated with us. They were well-behaved (hate that phrase, but for lack of a better term I'll use it), and they sang OUR national anthem louder than the rest of the stiffs that seperated S8 and them--and let's not even mention that 98% of Americans don't know the Canadian national anthem past the words O Canada .....so I'm not knocking them. Wish you wouldn't.
I understand that towards the end of the match, or directly after, there was some scuffle that broke out between them and some of the regular joe's in the section next to them--but if that's what you're basing your "classless" comment on, you might want to be a little more tempered in your view--or at least qualify it to say that it was only a few. It only takes a few idiots on either side of the fence to start something that practically no one can stop. And honestly, we(Section 8 and some other Fire fans)are going up there to Toronto for their last home game in October. I look forward to my first trip to their city, and I hope we have a good reception--but your piece just made it a little bit harder for them to want to be good hosts. Thanks jerk. The rest of the article isn't that bad.
On, on a side note, I haven't made the drive there yet, but I'm positive it takes more than 4 hours....perhaps you meant 14?"

[sully]

^^^ sense prevails

[FluSH]

Comments Deleted

[MG42]

^please keep all hatred directed towards the FIRE gentlemen :)

[FluSH]

^please keep all hatred directed towards the FIRE gentlemen :)


Well, that shit is NOT fcuking cool... and I won't stand for that.

[shaunsas]

Are you fucking retarded?!! who the fcuk are you?!?!?! Now all Mexicans are illegal in America?!?! You dumb fcuking cunt...
you're right.... my apologies.... i was just pissed at the story and should have directed my anger at the writer not the paying fans.

[Pyeddo]

Are you fucking retarded?!! who the fcuk are you?!?!?! Now all Mexicans are illegal in America?!?! You dumb fcuking cunt...


Reeeeeeeeelax.... i think he was meaning it more tongue in cheek. We're all on the same team here

[Nomad]

Sense prevails from a Fire fan...

...but as for "Your shitty 4% beer doesn't phase us, so we had to drink 10x as much to even approach a buzz." this is a fallacy. 5% in Canada and 4% in the US are relatively the same amount of alcohol. Why you ask? They are measured differently. 5% in Canada means by volume and 4% in the US means by weight. Both equal out to be the same....

Think i'm wrong? Look it up..........

[Nodoubtguy]

A Fire fans response

"
Stephen--
You need to edit your article. I am a Fire supporter, but to be fair, the guys (and gals) that came down from North of the boarder were a far better turnout than any other club; and no, I don't include confused real Chivas fans coming out when the fake goats are in town. Not only that, but a few of them made it all the way to the oposite side of the lot and tailgated with us. They were well-behaved (hate that phrase, but for lack of a better term I'll use it), and they sang OUR national anthem louder than the rest of the stiffs that seperated S8 and them--and let's not even mention that 98% of Americans don't know the Canadian national anthem past the words O Canada .....so I'm not knocking them. Wish you wouldn't.
I understand that towards the end of the match, or directly after, there was some scuffle that broke out between them and some of the regular joe's in the section next to them--but if that's what you're basing your "classless" comment on, you might want to be a little more tempered in your view--or at least qualify it to say that it was only a few. It only takes a few idiots on either side of the fence to start something that practically no one can stop. And honestly, we(Section 8 and some other Fire fans)are going up there to Toronto for their last home game in October. I look forward to my first trip to their city, and I hope we have a good reception--but your piece just made it a little bit harder for them to want to be good hosts. Thanks jerk. The rest of the article isn't that bad.
On, on a side note, I haven't made the drive there yet, but I'm positive it takes more than 4 hours....perhaps you meant 14?"

was just about to post that one....

[NF-FC]

here's my response:

Seriously Ives, how can you let crap like this get posted on your site in the first place. The writer claims that "the Canadians" were classless and disrespected the national anthems, yet does not back up theses statements by explaining what actually occurred. Then he throws in the lack of class statement at the end, perhaps hoping that if he says it enough it will become truth. The only one classless here is the writer. This pile of tripe isn't even good enough for a high school newsletter, how you let it onto your site is beyond belief.

[Technorgasm]

A Fire fans response

"
Stephen--
You need to edit your article. I am a Fire supporter, but to be fair, the guys (and gals) that came down from North of the boarder were a far better turnout than any other club; and no, I don't include confused real Chivas fans coming out when the fake goats are in town. Not only that, but a few of them made it all the way to the oposite side of the lot and tailgated with us. They were well-behaved (hate that phrase, but for lack of a better term I'll use it), and they sang OUR national anthem louder than the rest of the stiffs that seperated S8 and them--and let's not even mention that 98% of Americans don't know the Canadian national anthem past the words O Canada .....so I'm not knocking them. Wish you wouldn't.
I understand that towards the end of the match, or directly after, there was some scuffle that broke out between them and some of the regular joe's in the section next to them--but if that's what you're basing your "classless" comment on, you might want to be a little more tempered in your view--or at least qualify it to say that it was only a few. It only takes a few idiots on either side of the fence to start something that practically no one can stop. And honestly, we(Section 8 and some other Fire fans)are going up there to Toronto for their last home game in October. I look forward to my first trip to their city, and I hope we have a good reception--but your piece just made it a little bit harder for them to want to be good hosts. Thanks jerk. The rest of the article isn't that bad.
On, on a side note, I haven't made the drive there yet, but I'm positive it takes more than 4 hours....perhaps you meant 14?"

Proper clas that.

WALK ON.

We that were there know what happened.

There are some things that the FIRE/S8 and TFC/RPB have in common.

We Sing the anthems. . .

and HATE DC UNITED! haha

but. . . just in case you thought I was soft.

WE'RE PISSING OUT THE FIRE!. . . . .

[CoachGT]

The funny thing is, the security folks in our section thought our singing of their anthem was the classiest thing they had seen in their building - they were very impressed and commented to both me and my wife about it. They went on about the respectful Canadians all night long - they laughed along with some of our chants, and recognized that we were there to have a good time! Don't let the words of some fool spoil that - I sure won't!

[NF-FC]

Proper clas that.

WALK ON.

We that were there know what happened.

There are some things that the FIRE/S8 and TFC/RPB have in common.

We Sing the anthems. . .

and HATE DC UNITED! haha

but. . . just in case you thought I was soft.

WE'RE PISSING OUT THE FIRE!. . . . .

actually, i respect DCU and hate the Fire

[MG42]

REPLY FROM IVES
Listen folks, the piece is Stephen\'s opinion. Right or wrong, it\'s his take on the game and his experience at the game. Obviously it sounds like some people had a far different view of things, which is great to hear. From what I know about TFC fans I can\'t imagine that the group, as a collective, would travel that far to act like jerks (as with any large group you might get a small few who stray). I also recall hearing the American anthem at BMO Field and not hearing any jeering or whistles (which I must admit I was surprised by). If TFC fans started to sing the anthem loudly then that\'s great. Nobody said you had to be American to sing the anthem. As long as you know the words then sing it.

[jayeden]

^ what a bullshit response...his opinion? its not a mtter of opinion..hes fucking wrong...

(http://www.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?extra_listing=mixed&form_mode=opt_b&post_back=1&firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=Wattles&street=&city_zip=Chicago&state_id=&localtime=survey)

[Kevvv]

No shit, was that really Stephen Hawking? I'm surprised he has the time.

[McBrace]

I wasn't at the game, but I couldn't care less of what American's think of me or my fellow supporters. All of you know the truth and that's the only thing that matters! The guy probably voted for Bush the second time around!

[GabrielHurl]

Is there really any need for that?

[jayeden]

Is there really any need for that?

fair enough, edited out, actions of anger.

[blackandwhite]

fair enough, edited out, actions of anger.


hahaha :taz::taz::taz::taz::taz::taz::taz::taz:

[mclaren]

what do you mean 'steven hawking'? what did he have to do with the anthem?

[blackandwhite]

what do you mean 'steven hawking'? what did he have to do with the anthem?

i thought he was singing the anthem.

[GabrielHurl]

what do you mean 'steven hawking'? what did he have to do with the anthem?

They had a US Army veteran who uses a voice box to talk sing the anthem

[Dave67]

re Ives response.

Saying we were classless and had shown up once again in the hundreds to once again disrespect the American National anthem is not an opinion, it is an accusation. An accusation that could someday lead to serious reprocussions on those of us who travel should any mainstream press decide to play it up. The writer should issue an apology. The statement has already been removed from the site.

[jayeden]

video of U.S national anthem, finally found one

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ssrb5goumDM

seriously not a rickroll, an actual video of the anthem

canadian one from that day too

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ndFzzh40_O0

[mclaren]

They had a US Army veteran who uses a voice box to talk sing the anthem

ah, i see - wow, brave guy.

[Lucky Strike]

It's just another example of TFC and us fans being blamed just because we're Canadian. It's just another xenophobic guy, that's all.

[pekduck]

^
yeah.. very common in the states located in Mountain and Central time zones...

[Pyeddo]

One point.... if we're talking about disrespect, I'm sure we all can agree that the colour guard from the Marines NOT HAVING A CANADIAN FLAG WHEN ONE OF THE TEAMS IS CANADIAN was an outright insult.

But then again, at least it wasn't hung upside down....

[Jack]

racist comments

Please refrain from racist comments on our message board.

7 days. :red:

[Nomad]

This writer was out of line with that comment...

BUT...some of you people make me chuckle with your over the top bitching and making generalizations about people. Kind of like this example...



It's just another example of TFC and us fans being blamed just because we're Canadian. It's just another xenophobic guy, that's all.

Calling out the writer for his comments and chalking it up to generalizations which lead to xenophobia.....fair enough.



^
yeah.. very common in the states located in Mountain and Central time zones...

Agreeing with the above poster condemning the writer........by making generalizations....

Oh those glass houses....anyone got any stones? :rolleyes:

[jayeden]

Please refrain from racist comments on our message board.

7 days. :red:

lol, thats awesome

[Carter]

lol, thats awesome


Please refrain from racist comments on our message board.

7 days. :red:

Is it not a 250 dollar fine as well? Well that is how the league does it. heh

[TFC Via Buffalo]

^
yeah.. very common in the states located in Mountain and Central time zones...

You can include pretty much the whole south east too.

[Glenchen29]

Truth is that most of the Chicago fans are Mexican and limited with their english. I was sitting with Americans at the game and they said it was awesome what we did!

[Cambridge_Red]

I think we will always be scrutinized for our support. It comes with being vocal and loyal towards our club. This is a foreign concept (exlcluding DC United) in the MLS. I would be a bit intimidated if we had a group like we did chanting "fuck toronto" in our house. Just my thoughts... We're always gonna get bullshit opinions, stay loyal stay focused.

[jayeden]

LOL @
------------

"Nice enough in fact that it wasn’t hard to ignore the Canadians who had shown up in the hundreds to once again drink as if they’ve never seen beer before. "

Maybe if your beer had a decent amount of alcohol in it we wouldnt have to drink so much. I might as well dirnk my own piss.

Posted by: jayeden | July 18, 2008 at 10:55 AM (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/fire-2-toronto.html#comment-122818660)


Jayeden, well played.

Posted by: Ives | July 18, 2008 at 11:34 AM (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/fire-2-toronto.html#comment-122823684)

[Jack]

Truth is that most of the Chicago fans are Mexican and limited with their english. I was sitting with Americans at the game and they said it was awesome what we did!

Most?

You did a demographic survey of the crowd?:p

[TO DEVILS]

The question i have is how come generalising Mexicans is racist and doing it to Portuguese is not?

I would like to know that.

[ExiledRed]

The question i have is how come generalising Mexicans is racist and doing it to Portuguese is not?

I would like to know that.

Who said doing it to the portugese wasn't?

just curious, not trying to stir it up.

[GabrielHurl]

The question i have is how come generalising Mexicans is racist and doing it to Portuguese is not?

The Portuguese are diving cheats though :D

[TO DEVILS]

Who said doing it to the portugese wasn't?

just curious, not trying to stir it up.

Countless posts on this board on how portuguese are divers and cheaters. If those are not generalizations i am not sure what they are.

Don't believe? Start a thread about TFC signing Figo....

[Jack]

The question i have is how come generalising Mexicans is racist and doing it to Portuguese is not?

I would like to know that.

*Puts on Administrator's hat*

When someone says the Portuguese men's national football team is a bunch of divers (this is an example, not my feelings on the subject), they are referring to a specific team, not the whole country or sub-group in Canada (or the US in this case).

Again, if you find a post or comment offensive, that's what the "report post" button is for. We try to keep track of stuff but there are a lot of posts and we don't read them all. Is someone says something you perceive to be racist or prejudiced or bigoted, please report that post to a mod or an admin and we will take care of it.

[H Bomb]

Countless posts on this board on how portuguese are divers and cheaters. If those are not generalizations i am not sure what they are.



Fine fine, Top level Portuguese Footballers are often divers. A lot less general.

Better?

[FluSH]

The question i have is how come generalising Mexicans is racist and doing it to Portuguese is not?

I would like to know that.

I stand up for the Portuguese...

[TO DEVILS]

*Puts on Administrator's hat*

When someone says the Portuguese men's national football team is a bunch of divers (this is an example, not my feelings on the subject), they are referring to a specific team, not the whole country or sub-group in Canada (or the US in this case).

Again, if you find a post or comment offensive, that's what the "report post" button is for. We try to keep track of stuff but there are a lot of posts and we don't read them all. Is someone says something you perceive to be racist or prejudiced or bigoted, please report that post to a mod or an admin and we will take care of it.

I do agree...but many times the posts haven't been towards the team, but rather towards the population or ethnic background in general.

*Putting on my pimp hat*

I will slap that report button next time i see fit....;)

[McBrace]

The Portuguese are diving cheats though :D


Hey, I'm Portuguese and I'm a cheat, but not a diver, So I take offence to that comment!:D

[TO DEVILS]

Fine fine, Top level Portuguese Footballers are often divers. A lot less general.

Better?

All portuguese footballers are top level...so still to general.

If you said All english top level footballers are winning c****, that would be more restricted considering there aren't many british top level players.

[FluSH]

Countless posts on this board on how portuguese are divers and cheaters. If those are not generalizations i am not sure what they are.

Don't believe? Start a thread about TFC signing Figo....


Ooooh that!

Well It's the same comment for the Latin style of play by Latin American countries... I've just come to accept it.


=P

[McBrace]

Fine fine, Top level Portuguese Footballers are often divers. A lot less general.

Better?

As is every other national team. Come on, they all do a little cheating here and there.

And I don't believe it's cheating, more like fooling the dumbass refs!

[BakaGaijin]

All portuguese footballers are top level...so still to general.



By "top level" you mean like Xavier, right? ;)

[H Bomb]

All portuguese footballers are top level...so still to general.

If you said All english top level footballers are winning c****, that would be more restricted considering there aren't many british top level players.

If you said the English were Winning C**** I'd disagree with you, we haven't won anything in 42 years!!!

Whining then I'd agree to do with John Terry for sure :)

[pekduck]

This writer was out of line with that comment...


Agreeing with the above poster condemning the writer........by making generalizations....

Oh those glass houses....anyone got any stones? :rolleyes:


huh? since when "very common" becomes generalization equivalent of "all of them are"

are you generalizing that i agree with the above poster condemning the writer there?

I can be either "agree with the above poster condemning the writer or not"
I can be either "calling all states in MST and CST xenophobic or not"

There are four possible outcomes, how come you conveniently decided that i condemn the writer AND calling all states in MST and CST xenophobic? :D

haha.. nah.. i'm just BSing here.... I got your point, but just too argumentative after meeting at work. lol

[TO DEVILS]

If you said the English were Winning C**** I'd disagree with you, we haven't won anything in 42 years!!!

Whining then I'd agree to do with John Terry for sure :)

English clubs have won....more than they have whinned.;)

[TO DEVILS]

By "top level" you mean like Xavier, right? ;)

Xavier is has portuguese as Ben Johnson is Canadian.

[CretanBull]

All portuguese footballers are top level...so still to general.

If you said All english top level footballers are winning c****, that would be more restricted considering there aren't many british top level players.

First, hahaha!

Second, you probably meant "English" and not "British" as British includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - and when it comes to football they don't get along with each other at all.

[H Bomb]

As is every other national team. Come on, they all do a little cheating here and there.

And I don't believe it's cheating, more like fooling the dumbass refs!

But it's also cultural, if a child is raised to believe that "embellishing" is simply bending the rules and helping your team then you will do it. If you are raised to think diving is the worst of all football sins then you won't. Different cultures do it different ways. Yes there are different cultural cheats (Germans are physical, sometimes too much...the list goes on and on to include pretty much everyone) But the key is to not cheat, cause that makes you a cheater.

[TO DEVILS]

Ooooh that!

Well It's the same comment for the Latin style of play by Latin American countries... I've just come to accept it.


=P

The problem is they all do it.....but for some reason latin countries have been stereotyped for being the only ones doing it.

[TO DEVILS]

First, hahaha!

Second, you probably meant "English" and not "British" as British includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - and when it comes to football they don't get along with each other at all.

My bad.....sorry about that.

For me they all look alike, can't really tell them apart.

[TO DEVILS]

But it's also cultural, if a child is raised to believe that "embellishing" is simply bending the rules and helping your team then you will do it. If you are raised to think diving is the worst of all football sins then you won't. Different cultures do it different ways. Yes there are different cultural cheats (Germans are physical, sometimes too much...the list goes on and on to include pretty much everyone) But the key is to not cheat, cause that makes you a cheater.

I think i have a broken moral compass....because to me i want to win, i could care less if its with a dubious penalty or with a handball.

Winning is winning....all means to achieve the goal.

I am not looking forward to winning the Fair Play Award......do you remember which country won it in 2006?

[Kickit09]

oh the irony...at least we know what this guy is all about now

[H Bomb]

The problem is they all do it.....but for some reason latin countries have been stereotyped for being the only ones doing it.

But not all. You're definitely right in a general sense but I rarely hear people say Brazil are a bunch of divers (Rivaldo omitted) The Spanish have been given special praise recently for their honourable style. While we need to be careful with generalizations, we also need to look at WHY people are always saying the same things about the same teams all the time (Italy=Boring / Portugal=Divers / England=Chokers)

[H Bomb]

I think i have a broken moral compass....because to me i want to win, i could care less if its with a dubious penalty or with a handball.

Winning is winning....all means to achieve the goal.

I am not looking forward to winning the Fair Play Award......do you remember which country won it in 2006?

And this is a common attitude. I won't knock it, but I certainly don't subscribe to it.

[TO DEVILS]

But not all. You're definitely right in a general sense but I rarely hear people say Brazil are a bunch of divers (Rivaldo omitted) The Spanish have been given special praise recently for their honourable style. While we need to be careful with generalizations, we also need to look at WHY people are always saying the same things about the same teams (Italy=Boring / Portugal=Divers / England=Chokers)

All countries have players that dive....now some countries may have more than others but that is no different than saying one team has more blonde players than others.

Spain has players that dive, so does Germany, Brazil, and every single country on the face of the earth. Diving in soccer has been around since soccer was invented....if diving wasn't a general problem you wouldn't see players being carded for "diving" or like some call it, simulation.

Some people may consider Italian style as boring, some appretiate the defensive aspect of it. So it all depends on who you ask.

Surveys can be great, but it all depends on who they target because that will influence the response.

You ask english audience who is the biggest diving team: Answer will be Portuguese.

You ask that same question to portuguese: they will say Italian.

You ask Argentinians, they will say Brazil.

Do you see what i am trying to say...is all perspective and perspective of who is asked the question.

[McBrace]

But it's also cultural, if a child is raised to believe that "embellishing" is simply bending the rules and helping your team then you will do it. If you are raised to think diving is the worst of all football sins then you won't. Different cultures do it different ways. Yes there are different cultural cheats (Germans are physical, sometimes too much...the list goes on and on to include pretty much everyone) But the key is to not cheat, cause that makes you a cheater.


Regardless of where and how you are brought up, in the heat of the moment things happen, and very fast!

Look at Canadians for example, Hockey player are raised to believe that hitting from behind is the ultimate sin, but yet, it happens.

I wasn't condoning diving at all, I can't stand it to be honest. I was just pointing out that they do it at every level and in every country. Some more than others for sure.

[Cambridge_Red]

I think i have a broken moral compass....because to me i want to win, i could care less if its with a dubious penalty or with a handball.

Winning is winning....all means to achieve the goal.

I am not looking forward to winning the Fair Play Award......do you remember which country won it in 2006?

I agree though I would rather win through skill.

I'm sick of all the stereotyping........ Bottom line is I will take any player from any league that will have a positive impact on our team.

[FluSH]

The problem is they all do it.....but for some reason latin countries have been stereotyped for being the only ones doing it.


Yes, but we do it gracefully and with flare... =P

[TO DEVILS]

I agree though I would rather win through skill.

I'm sick of all the stereotyping........ Bottom line is I will take any player from any league that will have a positive impact on our team.

But a mixture of both is deadly...ask Argentina in 1986.

They cheated, but oh boy were they skilled....

[TO DEVILS]

Yes, but we do it gracefully and with flare... =P

We didn't invent it...we perfected it.:D

[McBrace]

I agree though I would rather win through skill.

I'm sick of all the stereotyping........ Bottom line is I will take any player from any league that will have a positive impact on our team.


Exactly. :thumbsup:

[McBrace]

Yes, but we do it gracefully and with flare... =P


No extra points for style, but maybe there should be?:noidea:

[Cambridge_Red]

But a mixture of both is deadly...ask Argentina in 1986.

They cheated, but oh boy were they skilled....

Oh I know all about it trust me :D Hand ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Hand_of_God_goal.jpg

[BakaGaijin]

Xavier is has portuguese as Ben Johnson is Canadian.

I don't get it? Portuguese don't like black people?!?

[AL-MO]

I stand up for the Portuguese...


You better! *shakes fist*

[H Bomb]

My bad.....sorry about that.

For me they all look alike, can't really tell them apart.

Maybe this will help

Scottish

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=570


Irish

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=568

Welsh

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=567

English

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=569

[Cambridge_Red]

I don't get it? Portuguese don't like black people?!?

*cough* Eusebio *cough*

[McBrace]

I don't get it? Portuguese don't like black people?!?

What?

[GabrielHurl]

Irish

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=568


I take offence to that :mad:

[H Bomb]

All countries have players that dive....


You ask english audience who is the biggest diving team: Answer will be Portuguese.




First point I agree with 100%

Second point I don't. unless you are under 20 yrs old you'd say Argentina!!!

[H Bomb]

I take offence to that :mad:


Think how the Welsh feel. :)


I picked that shot cause I think it looks like a young OneManBarmyArmy.

Not that you're old buddy.

[Cambridge_Red]

Maybe this will help



http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=567




Shouldn't Neville Southall be behind this fellah ? :D

[jloome]

And this is a common attitude. I won't knock it, but I certainly don't subscribe to it.

If we didn't have amoral type 'a' personalities, society wouldn't achieve much, because they get things done. Conversely, we could do with a lot fewer of them, particularly in the halls of power.

And I will knock it. Cheating is cheating. If you think you've 'won' anything by bending the rules to finish first, then you don't really get what the spirit of competition is about.

It's like hearing US Marines use the credo "My Country, right or wrong." Well....no. I'm not going to support things I know are wrong. That's the dividing line between you being a bad person or not: the choice to not only have moral judgment, but to exercise it even when it's inconvenient to you.

That's not to say I've never done it -- but in those instances where I knew I shouldn't have, I was being a bad person. I've tried to make one of my self-improvement goals over the course of my life to act less in selfish, bad ways, and more in benevolent or harmless ways. I think it's a social credo we could all stand to live by.

If you know, it's wrong, don't do it. And if knowing you're a bad person doesn't bother you on some level, you probably need psychoanalysis and treatment before you hurt somebody.

[jloome]

The Xavier isn't portugese reference is related to the fact that lots of African players from former portugese colonies like Angola and Mozambique end up playing in portugal or for portugal, as was the case with Eusebio.

[BakaGaijin]

*cough* Eusebio *cough*

Well........he's not really Portuguese either.......he was born in the same place as Xavier............;)

[TO DEVILS]

If we didn't have amoral type 'a' personalities, society wouldn't achieve much, because they get things done. Conversely, we could do with a lot fewer of them, particularly in the halls of power.

And I will knock it. Cheating is cheating. If you think you've 'won' anything by bending the rules to finish first, then you don't really get what the spirit of competition is about.

It's like hearing US Marines use the credo "My Country, right or wrong." Well....no. I'm not going to support things I know are wrong. That's the dividing line between you being a bad person or not: the choice to not only have moral judgment, but to exercise it even when it's inconvenient to you.

That's not to say I've never done it -- but in those instances where I knew I shouldn't have, I was being a bad person. I've tried to make one of my self-improvement goals over the course of my life to act less in selfish, bad ways, and more in benevolent or harmless ways. I think it's a social credo we could all stand to live by.

If you know, it's wrong, don't do it. And if knowing you're a bad person doesn't bother you on some level, you probably need psychoanalysis and treatment before you hurt somebody.


Only the lord Jesus Christ can judge me...all others can dickov.

Nobody on this god's green earth as the moral fortitude to judge anybody, we are all siners, and i don't want to be perfect...i want to be me.

Jesus was and we all know how it all ended....so lets all step down from the moral high grounds to the valley of obscenity.

[Cambridge_Red]

Well........he's not really Portuguese either.......he was born in the same place as Xavier............;)

I was hinting no Portugal doesnt have a problem with African players.. He's a national hero.

[H Bomb]

Only the lord jesus crist can judge me...all others can dickov.

Nobody on this god's green earth as the moral fortitude to judge anybody, we are all siners, and i don't want to be perfect...i want to be me.

Jesus was and we all know how it all ended....so lets all step down from the moral high grounds to the valley of obscenity.

This thread is getting awesome. National stereotypes leading nicely into religious morality. Thank god for Fridays!!! ;)

[TO DEVILS]

This thread is getting awesome. National stereotypes leading nicely into religious morality. Thank god for Fridays!!! ;)

I promised B&W i would keep this going until 4pm.;):D

[Kevvv]

Where's B&W?

[GabrielHurl]

1 John 3:18-19 - Dear children, let us stop just saying we love each other; let us really show it by our actions. It is by our actions that we know we are living in the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before the Lord.

[TO DEVILS]

Where's B&W?

On MSN.:D

[H Bomb]

This thread is getting awesome. National stereotypes leading nicely into religious morality. Thank The Flying Spaghetti Monster for Fridays!!! ;)

Fixed
:D

[Cambridge_Red]

Ezekiel 25:17

“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish, and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers, and you will know my name is The Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon thee.”

haha beat ya TO Devils :D

[TO DEVILS]

1 John 3:18-19 - Dear children, let us stop just saying we love each other; let us really show it by our actions. It is by our actions that we know we are living in the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before the Lord.

Stop stealing my bible references, you irish are a bunch of drunken thieves.

That look like under aged children.

[H Bomb]

Stop stealing my bible references, you irish are a bunch of drunken Diving thieves.

Also fixed

[BakaGaijin]

I was hinting no Portugal doesnt have a problem with African players.. He's a national hero.

.....and I was just stirring the pot and being an ass.

[TO DEVILS]

All signs point towards the rapture happening this weekend.

[Cambridge_Red]

/\ LOL Why dont we just copy and paste that thread???

[GabrielHurl]

Also fixed

Bit ironic - seeing that one of the biggest divers in world football at the minute is a certain English midfielder who captains a certain team in the North-West wearing red.

[TO DEVILS]

/\ LOL Why dont we just copy and paste that thread???

ROFLMAO!!!!!

[Cambridge_Red]

.....and I was just stirring the pot and being an ass.

Fair play. :D

[Cambridge_Red]

All I gotta say is PUTA

[TO DEVILS]

All I gotta say is PUTA

You have a mother you know.

[H Bomb]

Bit ironic - seeing that one of the biggest divers in world football at the minute is a certain English midfielder who captains a certain team in the North-West wearing red.

Most of us do our best to forget Liverpool is in England ;)

[Cambridge_Red]

Most of us do our best to forget Liverpool is in England ;)

Isn't Liverpool in Ireland??? :D

[Cambridge_Red]

You have a mother you know.

ROFLMAO

[TO DEVILS]

Isn't Liverpool in Ireland??? :D

Affsied.

[Cambridge_Red]

Hahahaha

Affsied!!!

[Cambridge_Red]

We need our own inside joke thread...

[GabrielHurl]

We do - don't we?


Re-re-re-remix!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CretanBull]

My bad.....sorry about that.

For me they all look alike, can't really tell them apart.

To the casual observer we do look alike. Here's the decoder ring...

English = pasty white skin, bad teeth.
Scottish = pasty white skin, red hair.
Northern Irish = pasty white skin, drunk.
Welsh = pasty white wool, four legs.

[H Bomb]

To the casual observer we do look alike. Here's the decoder ring...

English = pasty white skin, bad teeth.
Scottish = pasty white skin, red hair.
Northern Irish = pasty white skin, drunk.
Welsh = pasty white wool, four legs.

Poor poor Welsh. My dad's gonna beat the hell outta me...damn Welshy.

Sorry if you're reading this dad;), summer hours in the office today.

[GabrielHurl]

To the casual observer we do look alike. Here's the decoder ring...

English = pasty white skin, bad teeth.
Scottish = pasty white skin, red hair.
Northern Irish = pasty white skin, drunk.
Welsh = pasty white wool, four legs.

I've got red cheeks as well

[CretanBull]

I've got red cheeks as well

I couldn't see them with the bottle in the way :D

[H Bomb]

I've got red cheeks as well

that's from the drink

[TO DEVILS]

We do - don't we?


Re-re-re-remix!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[BakaGaijin]

We need our own inside joke thread...

Baka-ja nai!

;)

[Cambridge_Red]

Baka-ja nai!

;)
Don't be so hard on yourself 友 ;)

[BakaGaijin]

Don't be so hard on yourself 友 ;)

Touche.

:)

[Maple Leaf Red]

Most of us do our best to forget Liverpool is in England ;)
Most scousers do their best to try to forget that Liverpool is in England too ;)

[alexintoronto]

All signs point towards the rapture happening this weekend.
Let's Go Raptures!


http://www.bballvideos.com/uploaded_images/RAPTORS-logo_large(9)-743215.jpg
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Cambridge_Red]

"Hey you with the Argentina Jersey!!" "You feel stupid?"

[GabrielHurl]

"Hey you with the Argentina Jersey!!" "You feel stupid?"

"cause you look stupid!"

[Cambridge_Red]

hahahahaha Nice assist Gabriel

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

LOL @ jayeden's drinking his own piss comment, awesome.

[Kevvv]

To the casual observer we do look alike. Here's the decoder ring...

English = pasty white skin, bad teeth.
Scottish = pasty white skin, red hair.
Northern Irish = pasty white skin, drunk.
Welsh = pasty white wool, four legs.


Also:

Scottish = wearing a kilt
Welsh = surrounded by a choir

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

I've got red cheeks as well

dont forget the list of family members imprisoned at some point or another

[H Bomb]

Also:

Scottish = wearing a kilt
Welsh = surrounded by a choir

Comments not nearly tongue in cheekingly mean enough for this thread. Please modify.

[GabrielHurl]

dont forget the list of family members imprisoned at some point or another

Huh?

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

Huh?

northern irish = at least one family member doing time (well, mine, anyways, lol)

[Kevvv]

Comments not nearly touch in cheekingly mean enough for this thread. Please modify.


How bout Scottish = plaid skirt and Welsh = covered in coal dust? Not that they've mined much coal in the last 30 yrs or whatever.

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

hmmmm, can someone please breakout the following for me, a la the british isles, since they were nice and accurate? :)

italian
spanish
portuguese
brazilian
argentinian

[GabrielHurl]

northern irish = at least one family member doing time (well, mine, anyways, lol)

well not mine :cool::D

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

well not mine :cool::D

yours = rational and level-headed :hump:

[BakaGaijin]

Also:

Scottish = wearing a kilt
Welsh = surrounded by a choir

Ease off the the Welsh........they are responsible for probably the greatest contribution to modern day music!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAZTLVJSlNw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv-2XYOtgCg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygN8H3kI1qE&feature=related

[CretanBull]

hmmmm, can someone please breakout the following for me, a la the british isles, since they were nice and accurate? :)

italian
spanish
portuguese
brazilian
argentinian

Those cultures are radically different from each other. They only look alike because they're all lying down on the footy pitch, if you can find one standing up you can easily tell them apart.

Snap!

(I'm only joking guys!)

[H Bomb]

hmmmm, can someone please breakout the following for me, a la the british isles, since they were nice and accurate? :)

italian
spanish
portuguese
brazilian
argentinian

Italian

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=572

Spanish

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=575

Portuguese

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=573

Brazilian

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=574

Argentinian

http://64.13.252.151/forums/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=571

[onemanbarmyarmy]

^^ one of these things is not like the others, one of these things isn't the same!

[CretanBull]

Who's that fat guy that kinda looks like Maradona?

[Cambridge_Red]

Who's that fat guy that kinda looks like Maradona?

His wife :D

[onemanbarmyarmy]

I think he ate Maradonna. or maybe just Ma-donna!

[canadian_bhoy]

According to some fellow "supporters", we were classless.

I know who I'm defending in a fight away and who not to next time :D.

Here's what I wrote:

Negatives:
Not many...chicago rules
expensive cabs
crappy weather on Saturday
Seeing Jimmy B and Carver come over to thank the fans, then walking away in disgust after seeing the scraps.

I'd like you to find the part where I even mention my opinion on what went down in Chicago and my opinion of "fellow supporters"..pick the line and highlight it. I'm sure you won't find it...even though you apparently have made up your mind as to what I said. Try actually reading a post instead of flying off the handle based on one line that you misread(or wasn't even there).

Have fun with your supporters groups, capo's, being "real supporters" etc. Like most others who used to be part of this board, I'm done

[ricciboy]

haha

[ricciboy]

His wife :D


good one

[AL-MO]

Like most others who used to be part of this board, I'm done


Say it ain't so!

YU7LZts87Zg

[onemanbarmyarmy]

^^Say it aint so that you tyried to get me to listen to weezer?!

[AL-MO]

^^Say it aint so that you tyried to get me to listen to weezer?!

:smilielol5:

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

mike, does this mean only touring and part-timing for you????

[Jack]

According to some fellow "supporters", we were classless.

I know who I'm defending in a fight away and who not to next time :D.
Seriously...you guys are calling out one of the founding members of our group for something he didn't say.

There is no one who has done more to forward the cause of supporting TFC during the first year and a half of its existence than canadian_bhoy, and if you can't respect the founding president of the group and one of the guys who helped get NEE their official recognition, then that's pretty weak.

Calling him out for something you perceived in the post he made is very ridiculous, as is questioning his support.

Read what he wrote again.

This kind of attack on one of the key members of our group and the founding president is not acceptable and if it doesn't stop, you guys won't be welcome on our boards.

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

Seriously...you guys are calling out one of the founding members of our group for something he didn't say.

There is no one who has done more to forward the cause of supporting TFC during the first year and a half of its existence than canadian_bhoy, and if you can't respect the founding president of the group and one of the guys who helped get NEE their official recognition, then that's pretty weak.

Calling him out for something you perceived in the post he made is very ridiculous, as is questioning his support.

Read what he wrote again.

This kind of attack on one of the key members of our group and the founding president is not acceptable and if it doesn't stop, you guys won't be welcome on our boards.

QF motherfucking T

[masrawy]

This kind of attack on one of the key members of our group and the founding president is not acceptable and if it doesn't stop, you guys won't be welcome on our boards.

Meh, I know what he said and what he meant when he said it. It's cool though, I get the message, I'll delete the post.

[Bloor West FC]

What happened to the respect on this board? Lets talk soccer!!!!!

[RealG-TFC]

I'll have a go...

italian

http://www.thecentralparkboathouse.com/images/gondola.jpg

spanish

http://www.goal.com/resultsimg/8618.jpg
portuguese

zsvq95bfRrs

brazilian=everything

argentinian-please look under italian or spanish

[MG42]

Have fun with your supporters groups, capo's, being "real supporters" etc. Like most others who used to be part of this board, I'm done

The Board that ate itself....

[Jack]

Meh, I know what he said and what he meant when he said it. It's cool though, I get the message, I'll delete the post.

You know what he meant?

He told you specifically?

Dude, you should apologize to the guy for jumping down his throat. Too much rhetoric, not enough reality.

[jloome]

c_b, don't go anywhere. You contribute here without stifling debate, generalizing, or constantly whining. There are still lots of others here who do, too, and we'd miss your observations (infrequent as they are these days).

[Roogsy]

CB...just ignore the noise dude.

[CretanBull]

This thread was better when we all agreed that the Welsh loved their sheep. The wives of Ryan Giggs and Carl Robinson having a drink before the match....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/CretanBull/sheep.jpg

[Blazer]

The response to my writing this week requires me to reply and in large part to apologize. Primarily to the TFC fans in attendance at Toyota Park last Saturday, but also to the TFC fans in general and other Fire fans who I don't speak for.
Firstly, it is at least implicit that this piece and the concept of Supporters Views encompass one opinion viewed from one seat by one person and that seat doesn't belong to Ives. So this is my opinion of viewing the fans in attendance. Additionally, not being a journalist I am not looking for additional sources to verify any comments I may make whether it be in the game or in the stands. Now this doesn't excuse the four hour drive bit, which was just a matter of not going back to update the placeholder I threw in when writing the article with the actual time, on that count I am indeed stupid as charged.
As for the anthem, based on what I can read now those in attendance were not disrespectful of the US anthem as it was being sung. The sounds as I could hear at its start up were not those of singing along, if this was due to any of the circumstances mentioned above or that I jingoistically jumped to conclusions out of pride in my own country, I deeply apologize to those fans and thank you for going beyond respectful and singing along. And I thank Ives for updating my piece so as to not incorrectly represent the circumstances any longer than necessary.
I will to a degree stand by the classless behavior comment as there was plenty of it on display. Whether it be swearing, middle finger waving, or throwing things into adjoining sections there were plenty of boys behaving badly amongst the crew of Toronto fans. When those adjoining sections are obviously primarily composed of many families with young children I personally take a disfavorable view of that behavior and do deem it to be classless. You can also argue the 'few bad apples' angle if you choose but I think its the job of the group to keep such behavior in check or suffer being painted with a broad brush as I admittedly have here. Likewise I am not saying it is unique to TFC fans but I can say I have seen it consistently in both their visits to our stadium and the comments were about just that and not 'away support in MLS'.
Supporting ones team is an emotional investment and those emotions aren't always expressed positively particularly when in groups and particularly when large volumes of alcohol are involved. However, I don't deem either of those facts to be an acceptable reason for this behavior and that is my opinion.
Other throw-away comments such as 51st state were meant in jest, but I understand how with everything else herein they simply made the piece more inflammatory. I think Toronto is a marvelous city and have personally spent a good deal of time in Toronto for both work and pleasure and always enjoyed it and its people immensely. I also think TFC is a great addition to the league and that its fans are great. However, I don't think that this excuses bad behavior from being pointed out when it occurs. If you disagree I'm sure you will express that and its an opinion you're entitled to.


Posted by:Stephen Wattles | July 18, 2008 at 05:26 PM (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/fire-2-toronto.html#comment-122878446)

[zeelaw]

loooks like th comments more then proved this drivvle wrong

[djking2]

Wattles may be a good head after all. It's just he has it so far up his own ass it's hard to tell

[Ladies Love Julius James]

So because you swear at a sporting event your classless? Fuck me.

[Jack]

I finally stooped to responding to his crap...

[Pigfynn]

Wow, another thread where a long time RPB member leaves the board because stupid people having a go about shit they have wrong, awesome!

All you guys who keep saying "part time" this and "real supporter" that are fucking retarded...Take your dick measuring contest to a little dark room somewhere where you can all enjoy all your self congratulating and let everyone else who (despite what you may think) loves this team get on with having fun and supporting TFC.

Honestly, it's like high school around here these days.

[H Bomb]

For sure. And it's very rarely RPB's who come on and cause the shit. But we tolerate for some reason as if there wouldn't be good people if there weren't pieces of shit. Less tolerance is required. the shit disturbers are not hard to find

[Oblio2]

This thread was better when we all agreed that the Welsh loved their sheep. The wives of Ryan Giggs and Carl Robinson having a drink before the match....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/CretanBull/sheep.jpg


HA HA HA HA HA......

[Jack]

For sure. And it's very rarely RPB's who come on and cause the shit. But we tolerate for some reason as if there wouldn't be good people if there weren't pieces of shit. Less tolerance is required. the shit disturbers are not hard to find
Hence this comment:


This kind of attack on one of the key members of our group and the founding president is not acceptable and if it doesn't stop, you guys won't be welcome on our boards.

[Richard D]

What a moran...

(lol)