Matt Stinson waived

[Yohan]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2013/03/matt-stinson-waived

Too bad...

[Phil]

I am going to miss him. Always thought he had good potential as a player. I liked the fight in him, didn't look like a fun guy to play against.

[ouderwien]

Unfortunate. Thierry Henry had only kind words.

[Lucky Strike]

Yeah, there's always (at least for me) a pang of regret when home-grown players don't make it. But realistically, if an academy (of any team in the world) can churn out 1 or 2 players a year who contribute significantly (and I define it as at least regular substitute minutes), then it's a success. Of course, there are academies that are better, some poorer, but generally speaking, this would be a good return.

[tfcleeds]

Too bad - thought the kid could have been one for the future.

[PopePouri]

Part of the overzealous academy signings done by Mariner and Winter. A real pity.

[gracos]

Its a shame Stinson couldnt prove his worth and we have to part ways with our HGP

[Chinatownchef]

Too bad - thought the kid could have been one for the future.

Really tough luck, for a talented local kid. Toronto F.C. at times really never gave him a chance at a starting position. I hope this is not end of the line for Stinson, cuz I would definitely like to see him trial and catch on with some club hopefully overseas, (i.e. Nana Attakora route). He is really a good canadian talent and could really develop with some overseas seasoning.:canada:

[reggie]

i saw this coming...good luck to him.

[DangerRed]

:noidea:

[jabbronies]

meh, he was over-rated by the supporters IMO.

Great worker, not so great skill. A younger version of Dunfield IMO.

[Ajax TFC]

And TFC not having a minor league affiliate comes back to bite them again. It pisses me off that TFC doesn't spend money on one of the few things where more money does give you an advantage.

I fully trust Payne, but I have to wonder what the point of this is. Low roster spot, low salary, domestic player.
Only thing I can think of is that he wants to keep roster spots 29 and 30 open for allocation money.


meh, he was over-rated by the supporters IMO.

Great worker, not so great skill. A younger version of Dunfield IMO.
That was my impression of him when he did get time at the beginning of last season. Of course he's also a cheaper version of him and more versatile. And more moldable

[Greatest Ripoff]

Not sure how they can cut this guy and start Jeremy Hall.

[[NBF]]

I'm willing to bet he could make the FC Edmonton lineup. They look a bit weak in midfield. Too bad he couldnt replace Dunfield, it seems like Dunfield is always the weakest link, but manages to stay in the roster over players capable of being more long term. Baffles the mind.

[Suds]

We all want to see out local talent make good. Too bad it did not work out for Stinson. I wish him the best hope he can continue his career somewhere.

[ManUtd4ever]

Stinson would have been a depth player in the defensive midfield at best, and realistically, he lacked the size and technique to develop beyond that at this level.

He had a great work ethic though, and I hope he catches on elsewhere.

[Yohan]

And TFC not having a minor league affiliate comes back to bite them again. It pisses me off that TFC doesn't spend money on one of the few things where more money does give you an advantage.
I agree, but I also think this isn't something to jump into right away. I'm hoping that ground work is being done for TFC to either pursue an affliation or own USL/D3 team next year.


I fully trust Payne, but I have to wonder what the point of this is. Low roster spot, low salary, domestic player.
Only thing I can think of is that he wants to keep roster spots 29 and 30 open for allocation money.

http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/roster-rules-and-regulations

this year's rules say nothing about getting allocation money for spots 29-30

[TFC07]

What's the point of waiving Stinson now?

[PopePouri]

I agree, but I also think this isn't something to jump into right away. I'm hoping that ground work is being done for TFC to either pursue an affliation or own USL/D3 team next year.


I hope they pursue the latter. I'd like to have a Toronto FC II team.

[Yohan]

What's the point of waiving Stinson now?
in Stinson's case, a roster spot

Waiving Stinson means 27 spots are taken up right now... Wild speculation: TFC is going to sign 3 players soon? (though with only 1 int spot available?)

[Ajax TFC]

I agree, but I also think this isn't something to jump into right away. I'm hoping that ground work is being done for TFC to either pursue an affliation or own USL/D3 team next year.
Given MLSE's resources, this is something that TFC should have been leading MLS with from the time they created the academy. Right now they should be doing everything they can to get an NASL team in Toronto or the GTA where they can put academy graduates who aren't ready for MLS yet and to loan players to. For example, instead of releasing Reggie Lambe or Taylor Morgan because they need an international spot, they could loan one out to the NASL side (if he was willing) and then hopefully he can get permanent residency soon and come back up.


http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/roster-rules-and-regulations

this year's rules say nothing about getting allocation money for spots 29-30
weird. I just assumed the rules were the same as last year (and the year before?) in this regard

[DangerRed]

meh, he was over-rated by the supporters IMO.

Great worker, not so great skill. A younger version of Dunfield IMO.

Perfectly said. In other words, a hard-working loser and therefore a supporter favorite around here.

[Abou Sky]

That sucks, why does TFC not have a team in PDL or something like that?

He needed polishing to be sure, quite a bit of polishing but I don't think he peaked.

[Yohan]

Perfectly said. In other words, a hard-working loser and therefore a supporter favorite around here.
loser? what did Stinson do to deserve that label?

[MKR]

;1567097']I'm willing to bet he could make the FC Edmonton lineup. They look a bit weak in midfield. Too bad he couldnt replace Dunfield, it seems like Dunfield is always the weakest link, but manages to stay in the roster over players capable of being more long term. Baffles the mind.

ummm because he isn't.

[DangerRed]

loser? what did Stinson do to deserve that label?

He very frequently played out of position, added absolutely nothing/was invisible in midfield, in 25 games he recorded two assists and cost us many more goals, very much like Terry. And yes, "loser" is appropriate here: he, like Dunfield, was a core part of the very horrible year we had last year. Period full stop. Say what you will about being called up early, or not being given a chance by the regime, but the record speaks for itself.

But, nontheless, look at the comment made by MKR: people love Dunfield, and sure as shit, people will love Matt Stinson.

I love comments like, "Oh, but he had all this potential and showed a lot of promise." Did he? Show me. Because Ryan Nelsen and Kevin Payne know a shitload more about football than you, and they don't see it either.

Bottom line is that coming up through the Academy program to perform with true-to-form mediocrity should not be qualifications for celebrating someone's time with TFC. But obviously to you they are.

[Yohan]

He very frequently played out of position, added absolutely nothing/was invisible in midfield, in 25 games he recorded two assists and cost us many more goals, very much like Terry. And yes, "loser" is appropriate here: he, like Dunfield, was a core part of the very horrible year we had last year. Period full stop. Say what you will about being called up early, or not being given a chance by the regime, but the record speaks for itself.

But, nontheless, look at the comment made by MKR: people love Dunfield, and sure as shit, people will love Matt Stinson.

I love comments like, "Oh, but he had all this potential and showed a lot of promise." Did he? Show me. Because Ryan Nelsen and Kevin Payne know a shitload more about football than you, and they don't see it either.

Bottom line is that coming up through the Academy program to perform with true-to-form mediocrity should not be qualifications for celebrating someone's time with TFC. But obviously to you they are.
Stinson played 4 league games last year. 'Core part' indeed :facepalm:

Your post has zero credibility

[Fort York Redcoat]

Perfectly said. In other words, a hard-working loser and therefore a supporter favorite around here.

Another case of you making a bigger deal of people hoping for more from him when a player is waived. Like you wonder why some like certain players I wonder why you relish when they're dropped.

Supporter Favourite by my definition would be on a POTY list or at least a banner made about him. Neither have been even mentioned so I wouldn't call this more than hoping for better from a player.

[DangerRed]

Stinson played 4 league games last year. 'Core part' indeed :facepalm:

Your post has zero credibility

He played about a third of the games the club played all season, sat in the bench for many more, and you're telling me that he wasn't part of the shit-year squad?

Hahhahaa. Alright, chief. Also, way to read the whole post!

[Greatest Ripoff]

He very frequently played out of position, added absolutely nothing/was invisible in midfield, in 25 games he recorded two assists and cost us many more goals, very much like Terry. And yes, "loser" is appropriate here: he, like Dunfield, was a core part of the very horrible year we had last year. Period full stop.

looks like you have no clue what you are talking about. Period full stop.

[Blizzard]

Perfectly said. In other words, a hard-working loser and therefore a supporter favorite around here.

You're the only person to whom the word "loser" is applicable to in this thread.

[maninb]

Glad he's gone....a younger version of Dunfield is a good description...small guy who runs around a lot but contributes very little...

[Greatest Ripoff]

He played about a third of the games the club played all season, sat in the bench for many more, and you're telling me that he wasn't part of the shit-year squad?

Hahhahaa. Alright, chief. Also, way to read the whole post!


He played 89 minute total last year. How is that a core part?

[DangerRed]

Another case of you making a bigger deal of people hoping for more from him when a player is waived. Like you wonder why some like certain players I wonder why you relish when they're dropped.

Supporter Favourite by my definition would be on a POTY list or at least a banner made about him. Neither have been even mentioned so I wouldn't call this more than hoping for better from a player.

Who's relishing? Look at my first post on this. It's a shrugging emoticon. The meaning of that one, to me, is "who the fuck cares?"

I don't relish anything about him being dropped, and he was probably hard done by due to the fact that he was brought up too early (I also mentioned this in another post).

But talking with some of you guys on here is very difficult, because you choose the bits and pieces that you read and put words in others' mouths without considering the actual point being made.

Must be me, though. English isn't my first language.

[tfcleeds]

Agreed that to call Stinson a loser based on his performance after taking part in 25 matches since 2011, many of which were in the Canadian Championship, and as a sub at that, is a bit harsh. It sucks from the standpoint that most of us on here would like to see our HGPs do well. That is, after all, the point of having an academy. However if Payne and Nelsen can bring in even better players, then I'm cool with that.

[DangerRed]

Wait, is this a "he's Canadian so automatically awesome" thing?

Because that I get, at least.

You not reading, I can't.

[Yohan]

He played about a third of the games the club played all season, sat in the bench for many more, and you're telling me that he wasn't part of the shit-year squad?

Hahhahaa. Alright, chief. Also, way to read the whole post!
http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/matt-stinson

here's another fact: Matt Stinson played 89 mins last season. how does 4 games in a 34 game season equal to a 'third'? do you want me to continue?

[MKR]

Dangerred: Stinson was a bit part player. If that.

As for my post about Dunfield. I hardly love the guy. You say people here love him, when i see the opposite to be true. He gets constantly shat on and the whipping boy of this team's short comings.

EDIT: i can see yohan's post should put this issue to rest.

The only thing that kind of troubles me is that so far the academy hasn't produced anyone that remotely excites me. Morgan is clearly the best to come from there, and yet in my eyes he's one of the worst players on the pitch. I know the academy will take a while to get going, but so far they're only firing blanks.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Who's relishing? Look at my first post on this. It's a shrugging emoticon. The meaning of that one, to me, is "who the fuck cares?"

I don't relish anything about him being dropped, and he was probably hard done by due to the fact that he was brought up too early (I also mentioned this in another post).

But talking with some of you guys on here is very difficult, because you choose the bits and pieces that you read and put words in others' mouths without considering the actual point being made.

Must be me, though. English isn't my first language.

I doubt it's your English, DR. You've done this many times over the years to players that just didn't work out and love to bring up the fact how confusing it is when supporters hope for more from younger players, especially if their local.

And you are relishing it. The post count after that shrug proves it.

You can agree to disagree on how to look at these players but don't pretend this is a wall of honour thread. People just hoped for more. Nobody's beating their chest about it just like nobody is arguing he should be captain.

[prizby]

question has to be asked again why TFC never loaned these players out. Stinson showed great amount of improvement when he received first-team minutes. See a guy like Bright Dike stink go from a first round pick to being cut to stinking it up to being loaned out and coming back to the point where he gets a call up to the Nigerian National Team. I understand why these players are cut; I don't understand why loans couldn't have happened so these guys could get first-team minutes, get better, and then be re-evaluated based on having on-the-field learning experiences.

look at Milos Kocic; his loan deal did wonders for him.



Thierry Henry on Matt Stinson “The right back Stinson had an amazing game.”

[Ajax TFC]

He played about a third of the games the club played all season, sat in the bench for many more, and you're telling me that he wasn't part of the shit-year squad?

Hahhahaa. Alright, chief. Also, way to read the whole post!
I suppose Avila was also at fault for our shit year because Mariner was too brainless to start him. Righto


I love comments like, "Oh, but he had all this potential and showed a lot of promise." Did he? Show me. Because Ryan Nelsen and Kevin Payne know a shitload more about football than you, and they don't see it either.

Appeal to Authority fallacy.

[greatwhitenorf]

Stinson and my son had some dandy tussles when they were about 12, 13, 14 years of age, playing in the CSL. Stinson was a top player then, but got so upset one game, he slapped my boy in the face. Better than studding his ankles, I suppose. I was proud my boy didn't retaliate. Just kept on giving him a hard time.

So, not worked up about his release. But, having seen his potential at that earlier stage, I was hoping he'd do better with TFC.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Stinson and my son had some dandy tussles when they were about 12, 13, 14 years of age, playing in the CSL. Stinson was a top player then, but got so upset one game, he slapped my boy in the face. Better than studding his ankles, I suppose. I was proud my boy didn't retaliate. Just kept on giving him a hard time.

So, not worked up about his release. But, having seen his potential at that earlier stage, I was hoping he'd do better with TFC.


Wow. Now THAT'S big of you. And your son. Class act.

[Richard]

So Jeremy Hall and Dunfiled are not the worst midfielders I take it, boggles the mind he hasnt been given the leeway these two guys have been given since last year. Absolutely unacceptable a club like TFC has these two start and not give Stinson a sniff.

[Yohan]

So Jeremy Hall and Dunfiled are not the worst midfielders I take it, boggles the mind he hasnt been given the leeway these two guys have been given since last year. Absolutely unacceptable a club like TFC has these two start and not give Stinson a sniff.
yeah... Stinson is not better than Dunfield

[Yohan]

Stinson still has a chance to stick with an MLS team if a team claims him within 48hrs

One of my favourite memories of Stinson (other than harassing the shit out of Henry) is at the end of 2-0 defeat in Chicago in 2011, he was the only player, except Dasan Robinson to come over to away section to show appreciation

[Richard]

yeah... Stinson is not better than Dunfield

I have seen him play once, if you cant give him a chance how do you know what you really have. Practice is just that "Practice", not all players show what they have just in practice.

[MKR]

I have seen him play once, if you cant give him a chance how do you know what you really have. Practice is just that "Practice", not all players show what they have just in practice.

well for those that don't get many minutes, they really need to. If you can't do it in practice, no way a manager will have the faith in you to do it in a game.

[MartinUtd]

I liked Stinson, I always remember he had a good performance against NYRB about a year and a half ago. I didn't attend many games last season so I must have missed the 25 that he did play. Either way, too bad. I really though he'd be a good depth player to replace Dunfield (assuming we got a starting mid ahead of him too).

Ah well, hopefully he can land a NASL gig.

[Yohan]

I have seen him play once, if you cant give him a chance how do you know what you really have. Practice is just that "Practice", not all players show what they have just in practice.
you saw him once. others have seen him 15-20 times, not incl his national team games. there is enough sampling out there to rate Stinson or not

[ouderwien]

I have a quick question: Do loaned players count as roster spots?

I imagine they wouldn't, and therefore, I bring up again the point that TFC has not utilized loaning out players very effectively. Looking at the examples provided beforehand, coupled with the new USL-Pro partnership and SKC loaning out 4 players to Orlando this season, I cannot see how Stinson could not have been loaned out to FC Edmonton to start.

We need a transition team to allow the players that graduate from the Academy to gain valuable minutes to allow them to progress. It saddens me to see players like Cordon, Stinson, Makabuya and Lindsay go the route that they have.

[Yohan]

I have a quick question: Do loaned players count as roster spots?

I imagine they wouldn't, and therefore, I bring up again the point that TFC has not utilized loaning out players very effectively. Looking at the examples provided beforehand, coupled with the new USL-Pro partnership and SKC loaning out 4 players to Orlando this season, I cannot see how Stinson could not have been loaned out to FC Edmonton to start.

We need a transition team to allow the players that graduate from the Academy to gain valuable minutes to allow them to progress. It saddens me to see players like Cordon, Stinson, Makabuya and Lindsay go the route that they have.
players loaned out do not count towards roster spot. and you're also assuming that TFC players are in high demand ;)

looks like Vancouver has lock on relationship with Edmonton (and Carolina...)

I also think most MLS teams do not rate coaching at D2/D3 level. Not every team is going to be quality and well run like Orlando

[ouderwien]

players loaned out do not count towards roster spot. and you're also assuming that TFC players are in high demand ;)

looks like Vancouver has lock on relationship with Edmonton (and Carolina...)

I also think most MLS teams do not rate coaching at D2/D3 level. Not every team is going to be quality and well run like Orlando

Haha. That could also be true. So the other way to see this, is that TFC rushed to add these players to the squads, when they really were not good enough.
I've read that Cordon and Makabuya were in the pre-season camp with FC Edmonton and got cut.

Unfortunate though, I was rooting more for Stinson over the rest of the Academy graduates.

[Yohan]

Haha. That could also be true. So the other way to see this, is that TFC rushed to add these players to the squads, when they really were not good enough.
I've read that Cordon and Makabuya were in the pre-season camp with FC Edmonton and got cut.

Unfortunate though, I was rooting more for Stinson over the rest of the Academy graduates.
it's just part of bringing up youth players that most will not pan out

[DangerRed]

I doubt it's your English, DR. You've done this many times over the years to players that just didn't work out and love to bring up the fact how confusing it is when supporters hope for more from younger players, especially if their local.

And you are relishing it. The post count after that shrug proves it.



Why do I even bother? I mean, how do I actually argue with someone like you? Ignored...

[Yohan]

Why do I even bother? I mean, how do I actually argue with someone like you? Ignored...
you should ignore me too, while you're at it ;)

[ensco]

Here's a record he'll hold for a while:

Stinson is the all time club leader in goals scored against Red Star Belgrade.

[ecospice]

How many minutes did Lombardo play in his first year with TFC? More or less than Stinson did in his whole time here? (I don't know the answer, but I put them at the same level in terms of impact they had on the team in the short time they were with the Club.)

[Yohan]

How many minutes did Lombardo play in his first year with TFC? More or less than Stinson did in his whole time here? (I don't know the answer, but I put them at the same level in terms of impact they had on the team in the short time they were with the Club.)
http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/andrea-lombardo

752mins

[DangerRed]

you should ignore me too, while you're at it ;)

My pleasure! Done!

[DangerRed]

Here's a record he'll hold for a while:

Stinson is the all time club leader in goals scored against Red Star Belgrade.

Bahahaha. Awesome.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Good luck in the future Matt and thanks for the efforts on behalf of TFC.
I am sure you will land on your feet somewhere and end up getting some regular playing time.

[Alonso]

He very frequently played out of position, added absolutely nothing/was invisible in midfield, in 25 games he recorded two assists and cost us many more goals, very much like Terry. And yes, "loser" is appropriate here: he, like Dunfield, was a core part of the very horrible year we had last year. Period full stop. Say what you will about being called up early, or not being given a chance by the regime, but the record speaks for itself.

But, nontheless, look at the comment made by MKR: people love Dunfield, and sure as shit, people will love Matt Stinson.

I love comments like, "Oh, but he had all this potential and showed a lot of promise." Did he? Show me. Because Ryan Nelsen and Kevin Payne know a shitload more about football than you, and they don't see it either.

Bottom line is that coming up through the Academy program to perform with true-to-form mediocrity should not be qualifications for celebrating someone's time with TFC. But obviously to you they are.


Dunfield has stuck around through THREE coaching changes.

You're obviously a better judgement of talent then Winter, Mariner, Payne, and Nelsen... :facepalm:

He has something to offer this team... is he the next coming of christ? No, but give the guy a break.

He has also scored some big goals for us.

You must be trolling with this shit.

[Alonso]

you're the only person to whom the word "loser" is applicable to in this thread.


lol +1

[DangerRed]

Dunfield has stuck around through THREE coaching changes.

You're obviously a better judgement of talent then Winter, Mariner, Payne, and Nelsen... :facepalm:

He has something to offer this team... is he the next coming of christ? No, but give the guy a break.

He has also scored some big goals for us.

You must be trolling with this shit.

You're right. I'm trolling. There's zero merit to what I'm saying, Terry Dunfield should consistently be starting in midfield, and unlike in every game until now, he will become brilliant sheerly through force of will and hard work.

Again, there's just no point here with you guys sometimes. The moment you disagree, you're trolling. I'm done.

[Alonso]

question has to be asked again why TFC never loaned these players out. Stinson showed great amount of improvement when he received first-team minutes. See a guy like Bright Dike stink go from a first round pick to being cut to stinking it up to being loaned out and coming back to the point where he gets a call up to the Nigerian National Team. I understand why these players are cut; I don't understand why loans couldn't have happened so these guys could get first-team minutes, get better, and then be re-evaluated based on having on-the-field learning experiences.

look at Milos Kocic; his loan deal did wonders for him.



Thierry Henry on Matt Stinson “The right back Stinson had an amazing game.”

Here is the link to the news article: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/sports/thierry-henry-rescues-red-bulls-from-defeat-against-improving-toronto-fc-62304.html

Matt should take this article, print it off, put it up on his wall and take it to heart.

When Thierry Henry says something like that about your game it means something...

DangerRed... not so much.

[Alonso]

You're right. I'm trolling. There's zero merit to what I'm saying, Terry Dunfield should consistently be starting in midfield, and unlike in every game until now, he will become brilliant sheerly through force of will and hard work.

Again, there's just no point here with you guys sometimes. The moment you disagree, you're trolling. I'm done.


You didn't address the fact that he has been started by THREE different coaches who have addressed his talent?

I think it's you that is blinded and unwilling to address the fact that you have an unwarranted hate on for Dunfield.

Like I said in my post, he isn't the second coming of christ, but he is a serviceable player who has happened to score some game winning goals for us and 1 awesome goal against Vancouver at home.

[Alonso]

Why do I even bother? I mean, how do I actually argue with someone like you? Ignored...

Please ignore me as well.

[OgtheDim]

You know, I was wondering why a thread about Stinson got to 3 pages in 6 hours.





Well that's 10 minutes of my life I'm not getting back.

[T-boy]

You know, I was wondering why a thread about Stinson got to 3 pages in 6 hours.





Well that's 10 minutes of my life I'm not getting back.

Man alive, I totally agree! If anybody reads this post first - don't do back and read pages 1 and 2. Stinson got cut, end of story. There's nothing else worthy to read in this thread! Seriously guys, stop the in fighting! We all support the same team here!

[Abou Sky]

Man alive, I totally agree! If anybody reads this post first - don't do back and read pages 1 and 2. Stinson got cut, end of story. There's nothing else worthy to read in this thread! Seriously guys, stop the in fighting! We all support the same team here!

IMO a bit of banter about players is alright, just don't take it to heart or be venomous to people.

I like Terry D, I think he is pretty good and if not starting he should at the very least be on the bench for most/all games.

I don't see this debate ending any time soon.

That said, the point that he has made it through that many coaches is a pretty good one. (he was also on the Can MNT)

[prizby]

Why do I even bother? I mean, how do I actually argue with someone like you? Ignored...

i agree with FYRC, might as well hit ignore for me as well...I'll take Henry's word over your word any day of the week when it comes to evaluating a player

[Jpexxx]

http://www.dcunited.com/news/2013/03/four-to-the-richmond-kickers

Thought this might be relevant, to bring the convo back on topic.

"D.C. United today announced that the Club will be loaning four players to the Richmond Kickers this season as part of the two clubs’ landmark affiliation agreement. Forward Casey Townsend, defender/midfielder Taylor Kemp, forward Michael Seaton, and midfielder Conor Shanosky will all join the Kickers for the 2013 season."


They call it a "landmark" relationship a few times in there... Maybe these partnerships are still pretty new for MLS clubs?


Edit:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/23/mls-usl-pro-reach-deal-restructured-reserve-league

Here is a link to the article they mention in that release.

[Ajax TFC]

The appeals to authority in this thread are quite mind boggling. Please come up with your own points in support of or against players, because for every authority figure that supposedly supports your point, it is just as easy to find authority figures that don't

Winter, Mariner, and Nelsen all play Dunfield therefore he's good:
And which of those coaches was successful? Winter's only wins last year came when Dunfield started on the bench, and in 2011 he rarely used him at all. Mariner's season went to shit when he started relying on him, and clearly wasn't a good evaluator of talent. Nelsen is an unknown quality right now and hasn't really had much choice other than to start him. We'll see what happens to Dunfield when Cesar comes back to full fitness.

And that's just breaking down the authority figures being used to argue a point. I can also make equally valid (aka nonvalid) counterpoints:
Dunfield's coach in Vancouver clearly didn't rate him at all because he traded him for the rights to a 17 year old who wasn't going to play in MLS any time soon.
Dunfield was playing in League 2, so clearly non of the coaches of better teams rated him enough to sign him (BTW people used a similar arguement for why Winter was clearly never qualified to coach)

Nelsen doesn't rate Stinson, so clearly he isn't good:
Winter and Mariner clearly both rated him. Winter signed him and game him some decent minutes, and Mariner didn't cut him with the rest of the HGPs. And how do we know that Nelsen is a better evaluator of talent than those two? Also the Canadian youth coaches rated him enough to consistently call him up, and Stephen Hart also called him up.

Of course you could now come up with reasons why the Canadian youth coaches aren't good talent judges, and why Hart is a poor judge of talent. Which is why posters should come up with their own evaluations of players rather than saying "so and so - who knows more than you - rates/doesn't rate such and such a player, therefore my point is proven and is infallible"

[jazzy]

I agree, but I also think this isn't something to jump into right away. I'm hoping that ground work is being done for TFC to either pursue an affliation or own USL/D3 team next year.

http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/roster-rules-and-regulations

this year's rules say nothing about getting allocation money for spots 29-30

well mlse certainly for the past year did not want to be involved in any way with a'farm' team as B .DeKlerk was trying for at least a year to get mgmt to hook up with charlotte, (great idea imho), but they simply ignored him. He felt helpless.....he agrees we needed an affiliate to help develop our not ready for prime time players

[ag futbol]

http://www.dcunited.com/news/2013/03/four-to-the-richmond-kickers

Thought this might be relevant, to bring the convo back on topic.

"D.C. United today announced that the Club will be loaning four players to the Richmond Kickers this season as part of the two clubs’ landmark affiliation agreement. Forward Casey Townsend, defender/midfielder Taylor Kemp, forward Michael Seaton, and midfielder Conor Shanosky will all join the Kickers for the 2013 season."


They call it a "landmark" relationship a few times in there... Maybe these partnerships are still pretty new for MLS clubs?


Edit:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/23/mls-usl-pro-reach-deal-restructured-reserve-league

Here is a link to the article they mention in that release.
Good find, it's something that's happening more and more these days now that MLS / USL have decided to become less adversarial and more open to loan agreements. Kevin Payne was actually among the first GM's to do this. I assume we'll eventually work up those types of partnerships ourselves once they clear out all the crap from 6 years of mismanagement.


well mlse certainly for the past year did not want to be involved in any way with a'farm' team as B .DeKlerk was trying for at least a year to get mgmt to hook up with charlotte, (great idea imho), but they simply ignored him. He felt helpless.....he agrees we needed an affiliate to help develop our not ready for prime time players
Incredibly stupid and shortsighted for them to operate that way. Also kind of ironic considering their huge marketing push talking about youth development.

Let's hope we've learned our lesson from this. Also, rumor was some MLS teams were going to create their own farm teams down the road, I hope this is what we are aiming for.

[jazzy]

loser? what did Stinson do to deserve that label?

hatred like that simply negates all the good points of past posts! I like to think what we say about someone online we'd be comfortable saying it to their face?

Then we're all losers as none of us have made it to his level. Talk is cheap! I do not hear Stinson complaining of his treatment here. Again he's from TO , whether

he's good enough or not . He's one of us! Respect!

[T-boy]

The appeals to authority in this thread are quite mind boggling. Please come up with your own points in support of or against players, because for every authority figure that supposedly supports your point, it is just as easy to find authority figures that don't

Winter, Mariner, and Nelsen all play Dunfield therefore he's good:
And which of those coaches was successful? Winter's only wins last year came when Dunfield started on the bench, and in 2011 he rarely used him at all. Mariner's season went to shit when he started relying on him, and clearly wasn't a good evaluator of talent. Nelsen is an unknown quality right now and hasn't really had much choice other than to start him. We'll see what happens to Dunfield when Cesar comes back to full fitness.

And that's just breaking down the authority figures being used to argue a point. I can also make equally valid (aka nonvalid) counterpoints:
Dunfield's coach in Vancouver clearly didn't rate him at all because he traded him for the rights to a 17 year old who wasn't going to play in MLS any time soon.
Dunfield was playing in League 2, so clearly non of the coaches of better teams rated him enough to sign him (BTW people used a similar arguement for why Winter was clearly never qualified to coach)

Nelsen doesn't rate Stinson, so clearly he isn't good:
Winter and Mariner clearly both rated him. Winter signed him and game him some decent minutes, and Mariner didn't cut him with the rest of the HGPs. And how do we know that Nelsen is a better evaluator of talent than those two? Also the Canadian youth coaches rated him enough to consistently call him up, and Stephen Hart also called him up.

Of course you could now come up with reasons why the Canadian youth coaches aren't good talent judges, and why Hart is a poor judge of talent. Which is why posters should come up with their own evaluations of players rather than saying "so and so - who knows more than you - rates/doesn't rate such and such a player, therefore my point is proven and is infallible"

In the end of the day, what do WE all know? None here are professional football coaches or managers! We all love to think we know about football, but none of really know what goes on at TFC. We can have personal opinions about players or preferences, but saying that we KNOW that player X is good or bad, is just rediculous! If we were all experts, we would all be managing football clubs. Nobody here is (as far as I'm aware!).

[Ajax TFC]

well mlse certainly for the past year did not want to be involved in any way with a'farm' team as B .DeKlerk was trying for at least a year to get mgmt to hook up with charlotte, (great idea imho), but they simply ignored him. He felt helpless.....he agrees we needed an affiliate to help develop our not ready for prime time players
That's quite shocking and sad. MLSE are such marketing penny pinchers. They love to brag about their academy, but the fact is they've never initiated anything before MLS makes it standard. A farm team is something they should have made a long time ago. Instead it is now a standard MLS thing and we still don't have one. It's also shocking that BdK wasn't even given the support to do the thing that he was brought here to do, which was to make the academy a proper setup.

[Ajax TFC]

In the end of the day, what do WE all know? None here are professional football coaches or managers! We all love to think we know about football, but none of really know what goes on at TFC. We can have personal opinions about players or preferences, but saying that we KNOW that player X is good or bad, is just rediculous! If we were all experts, we would all be managing football clubs. Nobody here is (as far as I'm aware!).
But that doesn't mean we can't form an opinion on players based on what we do know. I think most people here know enough about football and what makes a player good/good enough to have opinions about the players on the team - otherwise we wouldn't be football fans on a forum because we wouldn't know what to think about what we're seeing other than the scores.

Using the opinion of a "superior football mind" to make your own opinion infallible is not only a fallacy, but it completely ruins discussion. It completely takes away a poster's right to formulate and state an opinion if they have to back it up with the opinion of a coach/GM/"superior football mind".