Midfield Play - Our Biggest Problem?

[ensco]

I don't think a big striker signing alone will solve our problems up front. Cunningham isn't getting it done, but replacing him is not enough.

People have been harping on Edu, and he's part of the problem, he has trouble moving the ball forward in traffic, he seems to want to turn the ball back too often (although this part of his game has improved in the last 2-3 games).

But the midfield problem is bigger than Edu.

Robert and Ricketts, for all their individual skill, have not done the key thing wingers are supposed to do, which is take the ball (or receive the ball) on the wing, take it down the sideline, and provide good service. They are perpetually cutting it back inside at the halfway line. For that matter, they are just playing at the halfway line, too far back from the forwards, in general. (Welsh, for all his problems, was at least trying to be a winger!)

Because of this, teams overload on Guevara, and once they close him down, we don't have enough other options when going forward.

Until we link up better in MF, I don't care if we sign Arshavin, we're not going to score goals.

[Laurignano]

I disagree. I think our wingers are frustrated because they have no one to give the ball too.. trust me with a better striker and a striker who will provide options for our mid-field to play the ball too we will see what our mid is really made up off.

[canucker]

I think our midfield is still one of the best in the MLS. Its definitely our forward position that we are lacking in. I'm positive that we add a proven striker to feed the ball into we'll start getting the results we deserve.

[Shaughno]

I agree and disagree. It is part of the problem, a major part at that. The reason the wingers are so ineffective though, is the lack of presence up front. Nobody to make cutting runs (see the difference when Ibrahim came on), nobody to latch on to chips over the defense, or balls into the corners, or crosses into the top of the box or through balls.. period.

Our mid would be much more effective with a proper striker who CAN get the job done up front. Once we have that option up front, they won't have to turn back to find a player anymore.

[ThunderTundra]

I agree somewhat with the midfield problem, but I agree with what everyone has said about the midfield woes being tied to the striker woes.
We don't just need someone to one touch it into the net either, what we need is a striker who can make something in traffic. fire shots from the edge of the box, make his way into the box if he can and beat a goalie one on one rather than hoof it high

[invictusTFC]

I also think its the lack of quality at the striker position that has hampered our midfield play. Dichio has lost a step and seems a ineffective as a lone striker. Cunningham never makes a good run. He looks lost out there which messes up our midfielders' vision of the game.

[Shaughno]

^^ Oh he makes good runs from time to time, problem is he has no clue how to time a run. :lol:

[Rawkus_420]

if the wingers have more faith in the forwards they will be mroe inclined to play proper balls and be wingers, as opposed to try and od too much themselves.... a new quality striker, will ultimately make our mids play better as well.

[Oldtimer]

Maybe we should get Buddle back. Look how well he does when he gets good service.
(ducks head, waiting for projectiles).

[Shaughno]

^^ I had confidence in him when he was here and people were toting him as a useless cunt. Unfortuntely we couldn't get the ball up past half at that point of the season last year so he was deemed not good enough. Shame really, one of the few players I've respected in this league before TFC came around.

[Damien]

I really hope Carver considers using Ibee and Smith up front... they're both relatively dynamic and have speed/pace.

[Laurignano]

I really hope Carver considers using Ibee and Smith up front... they're both relatively dynamic and have speed/pace.
Hes going to start cunny. I just have a feeling...

[Damien]

Hes going to start cunny. I just have a feeling...

Obviously, I mean, Cunny has "earned his jersey" ... hasnt he? :noidea:

[Shaughno]

I really hope Carver considers using Ibee and Smith up front... they're both relatively dynamic and have speed/pace.


I can promise you he won't start both.

Maybe one, but I'm more inclined to say that Guevara will play as the second striker again, similar to when he first came to TFC.

[trane]

I have to confess that while I recognize that Guevarra is skilled and has contributed to the club, he has not taken control of the midfield and attack as much as I have hoped. I do not think that he is the problem but he is not exactly the inventive field general I had hoped.

[ExiledRed]

As far as our midfield goes, I'm concerned about Robbo's play of late.

He's giving the ball away far too much.

[Jack]

As far as our midfield goes, I'm concerned about Robbo's play of late.

He's giving the ball away far too much.

That happens to him when the rest of the guys are not moving and giving him options.

[Shaughno]

That happens to him when the rest of the guys are not moving and giving him options.

That's definitely part of it, but Robbo seems to be hot/cold with his passing. Sometimes he can't put a foot wrong and sometimes, oh boy, he can't make a direct pass if his life depends on it.

[trane]

What do you guys think of Guevarra's play?

[kitchener-TFC]

I think that for future games, Smith and Dichio should both start up-front.
But, Dichio's out for 6 weeks?

[Shaughno]

What do you guys think of Guevarra's play?

He's been good at times, but Edu and Guevara have no chemistry IMO. And there is noone up front for Guevara to link with either. It's been mostly Ricketts/Guevara or Robert/Guevara.. which is fine but doesn't necessarily score goals.

[trane]

^ In my opinion he has also looked good at times with Dichio, but it has been of an on. I would not mind Edu to be on the bench. One DM/Robo and three attacking mids, Robert/Guevara/Ricketts, then depending if you need more offense or defense for a game you either play with two strikers or five backs.

Edu needs to keep learning.

[invictusTFC]

^ In my opinion he has also looked good at times with Dichio, but it has been of an on. I would not mind Edu to be on the bench. One DM/Robo and three attacking mids, Robert/Guevara/Ricketts, then depending if you need more offense or defense for a game you either play with two strikers or five backs.

Edu needs to keep learning.

With Edu off to China, maybe JC will resort to that lineup. But honestly 5 backs? Who does that? I can see JC resorting to the traditional 4-4-2 with Robbo as the lone holding mid when Edu goes to the Olympics. Since Wynne will be gone too, Velez might be moved over to RB and James will be brought into the lineup to partner Marshall. I can see Ricketts playing out wide more often when Wynne is gone. RR moves into the middle a lot to allow Wynne to make those powerful overlapping runs. This free up more space for Guevara to do his thing.

[ensco]

What do you guys think of Guevarra's play?

Guevara has impressed me the most of any MF - I was predisposed to worship Robert (I saw Laurent at PSG when he was a stud - of course, he was playing with Okocha in his prime, and a 19 year old Ronaldinho, which helped him look good... I digress)

Guevara doesn't have much speed but his "footy IQ" is impeccable. He puts the ball in the right place, and is comfortable under pressure. Very similar player to Christian Gomez (not quite as good as Gomez, though).

[ensco]

I want Hemming in for Edu, not Harmse, btw

[Shaughno]

Guevara has impressed me the most of any MF - I was predisposed to worship Robert (I saw Laurent at PSG when he was a stud - of course, he was playing with Okocha in his prime, and a 19 year old Ronaldinho, which helped him look good... I digress)

Guevara doesn't have much speed but his "footy IQ" is impeccable. He puts the ball in the right place, and is comfortable under pressure. Very similar player to Christian Gomez (not quite as good as Gomez, though).


definitely agree, I think the thing with Guevara is he get's frustrated that nobody else is pulling their own weight.

[Shaughno]

I want Hemming in for Edu, not Harmse, btw

Hemming played very well against Independiente. Big thumbs up.

[noochie]

Hemming played very well against Independiente. Big thumbs up.

Agreed totally, he was a man amongst boys out there for that game and showed a good deal of emotion out there. I think he has the potential to not only be a decent player but a good leader also.

On the other front, I would like to see Guevara further forward also like he was for most of the game in the win against KC.

In a 4-4-2 put him an Ibee up front with Robert and Ricketts wide right and left, Robbo and Edu in the middle and then the usual on the backline for now. When Edu leaves for Beijing, I like giving Hemming a shot with Harmse off the bench.

[iansmcl]

Maybe we should get Buddle back. Look how well he does when he gets good service.
(ducks head, waiting for projectiles).

I've been championing Buddle since game one at BMO. More vocally as the season progressed until a few games after he was traded when people started getting angry when I cheered his name. :p

[Shaughno]

^^ I can agree with that.

Also agree with Hemming's performance. He was IMO man of the match for us.

[olegunnar]

I think the lack of a striker that defenders have to worry about means they can push up, help out, and generally roam around and break up attacks.
Our midfield is never given any space. (playing in a phone booth)

We need someone that can keep defenders honest, so we can judge our midfield. I'd like to think they'd do much better with some time and space.

[trane]

With Edu off to China, maybe JC will resort to that lineup. But honestly 5 backs? Who does that? I can see JC resorting to the traditional 4-4-2 with Robbo as the lone holding mid when Edu goes to the Olympics. Since Wynne will be gone too, Velez might be moved over to RB and James will be brought into the lineup to partner Marshall. I can see Ricketts playing out wide more often when Wynne is gone. RR moves into the middle a lot to allow Wynne to make those powerful overlapping runs. This free up more space for Guevara to do his thing.


It is not an uncommon formation in Europe, I think the Czheck republic played it. From what I understand the wing backs are allowed to run up and attack alot. I perefer 4 at the back no more, and defenelty no less, but I am tiered of lossing points because of poor defensive lapses.

I like our team quite a bit as is, at least on paper, other then depth at the striker sport, and I like us to play a form of 4-5-1, it just seems that we have lost our way.

[invictusTFC]

It is not an uncommon formation in Europe, I think the Czheck republic played it. From what I understand the wing backs are allowed to run up and attack alot.

Yeah but other than wynne who does this team have that can play wingback?

[trane]

^ I agree that we do not have a lot of speed in our backs.

I have never minded Buddle and was a bit suprised at how many wanted him out last year. I think alot of the frustration of the scoring draugth was taken out on him.

[ensco]

^ I agree that we do not have a lot of speed in our backs.

I have never minded Buddle and was a bit suprised at how many wanted him out last year. I think alot of the frustration of the scoring draugth was taken out on him.



Buddle was dumped in favour of Cunningham, but it was two separate deals. We probably should have dumped Esky for a defender and kept Buddle. It's 20/20 hindsight, since we all loved the Cunny deal at the time.

He had no chemistry with Dichio, or anyone else, at all (except for setting up the famous first goal).

I think Buddle's the beneficiary of playing with Beckham/Donovan, and his goal totals are inflated relative to his abilities.

Since being a late sub in Chivas' first game (and scoring), Esky hasn't seen the field this year.

Who would have bet, in June 2007, that Buddle would be a 2008 all-star, and that Esky and Cunny would be spare parts?

[trane]

I was not fan of Esky. I was not a huge fan of Buddle, it just that I did not think he was horrible, and he would have been good comming off the bench. I liked Cunny's signing at the time it just that he seems to be a one trick pony.

[Smenge]

The TFC midfield is solid, for about 70 minutes. Either Carver is overworking them in practice, or these guys are just born slow, but Robert, Ricketts, Guevera, and Robinson run out of gas at that time, and the team suffers. Earlier in the season, Carver substituted the midfield more often, and it was successful (at home). However, with the complete lack of trust in our strikers, the midfield is constantly trying to do more than it should, losing pace, and formation, and ultimately, the game. Not their fault, we need a striker or two.

[Big Bruva]

What are you talking about?

I wish that Laurents fitness andlegs were there a bit more but when i watch both him and Rohan they put in a load of crosses so we obviously are not watching the same games.

Frustration for wingers is when you play a lot of crosses and play with a striker like Jeff that 9 times out of 10 will not get onto it and a lot of the time is the only man attempting to get onto it coz he is the only one up top or when you play through balls but you know that your striker will not get onto it coz he does not have that kinda of pace (DD) although Danny wil try.

The wingers put the ball in the box no doubt about that


I don't think a big striker signing alone will solve our problems up front. Cunningham isn't getting it done, but replacing him is not enough.

People have been harping on Edu, and he's part of the problem, he has trouble moving the ball forward in traffic, he seems to want to turn the ball back too often (although this part of his game has improved in the last 2-3 games).

But the midfield problem is bigger than Edu.

Robert and Ricketts, for all their individual skill, have not done the key thing wingers are supposed to do, which is take the ball (or receive the ball) on the wing, take it down the sideline, and provide good service. They are perpetually cutting it back inside at the halfway line. For that matter, they are just playing at the halfway line, too far back from the forwards, in general. (Welsh, for all his problems, was at least trying to be a winger!)

Because of this, teams overload on Guevara, and once they close him down, we don't have enough other options when going forward.

Until we link up better in MF, I don't care if we sign Arshavin, we're not going to score goals.

[ensco]

What are you talking about?

I wish that Laurents fitness andlegs were there a bit more but when i watch both him and Rohan they put in a load of crosses so we obviously are not watching the same games.

Frustration for wingers is when you play a lot of crosses and play with a striker like Jeff that 9 times out of 10 will not get onto it and a lot of the time is the only man attempting to get onto it coz he is the only one up top or when you play through balls but you know that your striker will not get onto it coz he does not have that kinda of pace (DD) although Danny wil try.

The wingers put the ball in the box no doubt about that

Hey BB I like Rohan (and Robert) and think he's quality, and knows what to do out there. My criticism is not just targeted at those guys, it's also a (gentle I hope) criticism of Carver and the tactics. But I do think we'll have to amicably disagree about there being a "load of crosses".

I should have said this in my first post - there's a cost to bringing guys in late, and I think we're paying it.

We still don't know where the chemistry lies on this team, and your guy (and Laurent too) do not believe in their teammates. We all know new guys are still coming in. So they're trying to do too much themselves, or make a play to the only guy they really respect out there, Guevara, but the problem is, defenses have figured all this out.