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View Full Version : Rumour: Former and Current TFC players and their comments on Earl Cochrane



Jpexxx
03-06-2013, 09:58 PM
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4284-Former-current-TFC-players-make-opprobrious-comments-about-Earl-Cochrane-on-social-media


From the article:

Earlier tonight a photograph of Earl Cochrane surfaced with the words "I've ruined people's lives to save mine..hehe" written on it. It was posted to the Instagram account of Julian deGuzman. It was posted several weeks ago.

Several former and current TFC players made comment. Below the jump a list of the players and comments.

Dicoy Williams: "True Words lol lol you are for getting someone else the poppet."

Doniel Henry (four emoticons indicating that he's laughing so hard he's crying)

Keith Makubuya: "Fuck this nigga"

Kyle Porter (DC United) : LMAO

Oscar Cordon: "Punk ass bitch lol"

Junior Burgess: Lol

Eric Avila: Hahahahaha Wait...I know him (emoticons indicating that he's laughing so hard he's crying).

CSN has reached out to the club for comment.

khso11
03-06-2013, 10:05 PM
im sure kevin payne have done something to this guy so he wouldn't get as much power as before, idk just my feeling. But ill be more then happy if this guy leaves, like what Makubuya said "fuck this nigga" :D

TFC Cityboy
03-06-2013, 10:07 PM
2 down (anselmi and mariner), 1 to go

notthesun
03-06-2013, 10:13 PM
Obviously unprofessional (especially from Henry and Jordan Hamilton seeing as they're both still with the club) but damn it if I didn't get a good laugh out of this.

Thankfully now with KP running things the most important thing Earl does on a daily basis is remember which cup is decaf and which isn't.

prizby
03-06-2013, 10:15 PM
2 down (anselmi and mariner), 1 to go

+1 agreed

Gazza
03-06-2013, 10:21 PM
Is this a real story?

Jpexxx
03-06-2013, 10:23 PM
Is this a real story?

It sounded kinda fucky to me... put i was linked to it from his twitter...


Duane Rollins ‏@24thminute (https://twitter.com/24thminute)
Former, current TFC players make opprobrious comments about Earl Cochrane on social media:http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4284-Former-current-TFC-players-make-opprobrious-comments-about-Earl-Cochrane-on-social-media … (http://t.co/WRjP6LmxOi) #TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) #MLS (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23MLS&src=hash)

leafsman
03-06-2013, 10:24 PM
is this the TFC version of that NFL QB twitter conversation? that was amazing lol

Gazza
03-06-2013, 10:26 PM
Once bitten twice shy with this Duane Rollins guy.

notthesun
03-06-2013, 10:27 PM
Not sure why it's not linked in the article but the actual picture is here (http://instagram.com/p/R3zyy_DXcV/).

Gazza
03-06-2013, 10:32 PM
If this is true, we're going to have to find at least 3 more players by saturday.

Jpexxx
03-06-2013, 10:34 PM
who could this be?
one of the comments is:

"kluko2012: Passports!! Where are the passports! (el salvador)"

mowe
03-06-2013, 10:36 PM
Wow. This guy was such a sleazeball that current players are fine calling him out in public. Cordon and Makubuya seem the most vitriolic. Sounds like we didn't treat our academy products well. I believe Cochrane was (still is?) in charge of contract negotiations and who knows what else.

Ajax TFC
03-06-2013, 10:58 PM
who could this be?
one of the comments is:

"kluko2012: Passports!! Where are the passports! (el salvador)"
Is that Mike Klukowski? I guess the Cock couldn't even do his job with the CSA right

Richard
03-06-2013, 11:01 PM
I hope this is true, gotta get this snake fired.

dawkins
03-06-2013, 11:53 PM
Can someone please explain??

ag futbol
03-07-2013, 12:15 AM
2 down (anselmi and mariner), 1 to go
bingo.

unprofessional comments from the players, but get this guy outa here. pronto.

jloome
03-07-2013, 12:29 AM
bingo.

unprofessional comments from the players, but get this guy outa here. pronto.

LOL, I warned everyone about him on this board when he attended his first public meet-and-greet and so thoroughly snowed half the posters here that people were, like, "Earl Cochrane is one AMAZING guy!" Some were even talking about him becoming the GM. All I knew is that he'd been a PR guy in DC and that, frankly, that didn't qualify him for shit with TFC. We had enough of those types already, particularly when one is so smooth and charismatic (initially anyway) that people are IMPRESSED by him.

Didn't take him long to dispel them of that notion. I think the DeRo to Celtic thing wasn't much more than six months or a year later, as well as Sturgess, and then in the immediacy of Winter being hired, the South American defenders whom no one rated in their home countries and yet Cochrane negotiated their deals, not Winter.

There's always been that perception there that it's all about building his own turf to protect and then trying to expand it; I just have to figure that if genuine, these comments confirm that perception. This was probably a concerted and deliberate decision by DeGuzman to open up about him, as he did with Mariner's comment when he was shipped to Dallas.

razor787
03-07-2013, 12:37 AM
Man oh man... This worries me. Something will be done about this, and I fear it will be the players still with the team that pay the price. I have no idea what Henry/Cordon were thinking. It is poor form to speak out about your boss like that in that sort of manner. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, some things are better discussed behind closed doors.

TFC07
03-07-2013, 12:42 AM
Cochrane isn't the boss. Only Henry is still with the team and I don't think there's much TFC can do to punish Henry. Cochrane is a cancer and needs to go for sake of fresh start for the club.

Nuvinho
03-07-2013, 08:24 AM
is the first post/picture from JDG?

UltraFootyKWC
03-07-2013, 08:38 AM
The problem is, is that, Cochrane and KP have history, so I can't see him being fired.

I didn't even look at the pic or the comments, but I find it pretty weak for the players to post this kind of thing online. Really shows who the unprofessional ones are.

Oldtimer
03-07-2013, 08:57 AM
I would definitely prefer Cochrane as far away from the team as possible, but it looks like Payne is using him as an administrative assistant. As that, he probably won't cause too many problems, certainly nothing like the "DeRo to Celtic" stuff. Assembling legal paperwork, arranging trips are the sorts of things he is competent at (although that tweet about the passports is troubling) and are low-risk.

Joe Kool
03-07-2013, 09:28 AM
I agree with everyone that Cochrane seems shady so that it is no surprise to see something like this but what I can't understand and what really baffles me is the player's comments. It may just be them being young and naive but I am sure burning bridges, any bridges, in this business is bad just like any other business. You never know down the road where the idiot will end up, and it may be at a club that the player wants to be at in the future, and said idiot may have some influence. Not very wise even if they despise the guy. All of these athletes that put stuff out there on twitter and whatnot really got to check their heads. Too much has blown up for stuff like this it shocks me that guys still do it. Oh well....they need to learn from experience I guess.

Abou Sky
03-07-2013, 09:36 AM
The problem is, is that, Cochrane and KP have history, so I can't see him being fired.

I didn't even look at the pic or the comments, but I find it pretty weak for the players to post this kind of thing online. Really shows who the unprofessional ones are.

You are expecting 20 year old kids to have the same sense as you when posting online.

Add that youth that the fact that a kid on track to be a pro athlete generally lives a sheltered life and I think it was a dumb decision attributable to youth on the part of Henry.

It is genius on the part of JDG who is trying to torpedo careers.

As for Cochrane, it is my experience that people who interview well are almost always terrible employees...

Gazza
03-07-2013, 09:40 AM
De Guzman's almost my age, so the youth excuse goes out the window. Whatever happened to him, his play on the field was inexcusable. Putting something like that up for public consumption is childish and unprofessional.

What gets me are the young guys. Aren't they supposed to be social media savvy? lol. Not matter what you think about Earl Cochrane, Henry and Cordon(if he isn't gone already) should be dropped from this team.

Canary10
03-07-2013, 09:45 AM
No one has asked if this is legitimate?

I follow some of these guys on twitter, and many of the handles aren't the same as their twitter ones. Some of the pictures look off too. Like Burgos for example. I don't know if it's real or not, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Gazza
03-07-2013, 09:49 AM
No one has asked if this is legitimate?

I follow some of these guys on twitter, and many of the handles aren't the same as their twitter ones. Some of the pictures look off too. Like Burgos for example. I don't know if it's real or not, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

What, you don't trust Duane Rollins? haha.

Ajax TFC
03-07-2013, 09:51 AM
Henry and Cordon(if he isn't gone already) should be dropped from this team.
lol because we're really in a position to cut our top prospect because he offended the biggest idiot in the organization. If only we could have a team full of highly professional Terry Dunfields eh? We might lose every single game, but hey, at least we wouldn't be unprofessional

BTW Cordon was gone in the first round of cuts, along with Makabuya and Lindsay

Ajax TFC
03-07-2013, 09:52 AM
No one has asked if this is legitimate?

I follow some of these guys on twitter, and many of the handles aren't the same as their twitter ones. Some of the pictures look off too. Like Burgos for example. I don't know if it's real or not, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions.
I don't think anyone cares if it's legit. It's still fooking hilarious

fergiejr
03-07-2013, 09:53 AM
Was just looking for Doneil Henry's twitter account. Seems __kinghenry is actually Lara Pioquinto, but she is __KingHenry. And I can't see this post in her list of posts - last post was 24-Feb. If his handle was __kinghenry, then he's shut it down.

MarkEightThree
03-07-2013, 09:54 AM
To be fair, DeGuzman's account might have been set to private. If that's the case, then only people he's allowed to follow him will have access to his Instagram timeline. That doesn't make what he did any less acceptable, but it does make it less of a 'public' act. Cochrane should really stop posing for photos like that though.

Canary10
03-07-2013, 09:56 AM
I don't think anyone cares if it's legit. It's still fooking hilarious

It does matter. If these guys did it on a social networking site they are fucking idiots. That's coming from someone who does not like Earl and would be more than happy to see him fired finally.

Gazza
03-07-2013, 10:00 AM
lol because we're really in a position to cut our top prospect because he offended the biggest idiot in the organization. If only we could have a team full of highly professional Terry Dunfields eh? We might lose every single game, but hey, at least we wouldn't be unprofessional

BTW Cordon was gone in the first round of cuts, along with Makabuya and Lindsay

What does this have to do with Terry Dunfield? You must have me confused with someone else. Are you suggesting Doniel Henry's going to become a highly skilled midfielder? Is he that general we've been looking for to boss the midfield?

My point was, if this is true, you have to get rid of a guy who publicly insults your front office. I'm no fan of Cochrane. Do you think Payne's going to fire someone in his head office because of what a few scorned players have said about him? Most of whom were sent packing because they couldn't crack "the worst team in the world's" lineup?

And if we're relying on Henry to be our starting CB, then we'll most likely end up losing every game anyway.

v00d00daddy
03-07-2013, 10:14 AM
Ignoring the discussion of whether it was a good idea or a bad one.....one thing is for sure (if its not all a hoax):

This club is still really fucked up OFF the field. Payne has a lot of work ahead of him to clean that up.

Couple that with being terrible ON the field, and a real bad situation is a brewin'.

Jack
03-07-2013, 10:14 AM
Are you suggesting Doniel Henry's going to become a highly skilled midfielder?
He's 19 and said/did something dumb, but he is probably our best young defender and a great prospect for both TFC and Canada.

Gazza
03-07-2013, 10:17 AM
He's 19 and said/did something dumb, but he is probably our best young defender and a great prospect for both TFC and Canada.

I was referring to his Dunfield comments. And from what i've seen, i'm not high on Henry for the future of TFC let alone our national team. Agree to disagree.

Carts
03-07-2013, 10:18 AM
I would definitely prefer Cochrane as far away from the team as possible, but it looks like Payne is using him as an administrative assistant. As that, he probably won't cause too many problems, certainly nothing like the "DeRo to Celtic" stuff. Assembling legal paperwork, arranging trips are the sorts of things he is competent at (although that tweet about the passports is troubling) and are low-risk.

Basically George Costanza with the Yankees... :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fpHKiOzeRrs/SnZnm-0NdgI/AAAAAAAAAaw/hmeRYjERYh8/s400/2007_05_arts_nap.jpg

ensco
03-07-2013, 10:26 AM
Don't care about the instagram. If this is a Cochrane thread....frankly I'm getting more worried about this, why is Cochrane still here?

I said it when Payne came in:

What Payne does with Cochrane is the real test of his mandate/independence. The fact that he "knew" him at DC is irrelevant. Loyalty to individuals doesn't matter. Your loyalty should be to the people who report to your executives. Cochrane's record at TFC is what is relevant.

Payne owes it to us, and especially to all other TFC employees, to have a world-class employee in that spot. It's time for TFC to be held to a higher standard around here.

Jack
03-07-2013, 10:37 AM
I was referring to his Dunfield comments. And from what i've seen, i'm not high on Henry for the future of TFC let alone our national team. Agree to disagree.
Fair enough. I've seen him do some good things out there, but also some dumb things. I'm hopeful for him, I guess.

Gazza
03-07-2013, 10:43 AM
Fair enough. I've seen him do some good things out there, but also some dumb things. I'm hopeful for him, I guess.

I hope he proves me wrong! If he does, i owe you an overpriced BMO beer (doesn't have to be Bud).

brad
03-07-2013, 10:47 AM
JDG must have gotten wind of this - his account is now private.

DangerRed
03-07-2013, 11:03 AM
Duane Trollins.

JuliquE
03-07-2013, 11:08 AM
Duane Trollins.
ROFL

Right.. to be fair, Henry just laughed; he didn't actually SAY ANything.

tfcleeds
03-07-2013, 11:21 AM
Based on what we've seen so far, I think it's pretty obvious the Coch is back to his previous role as a glorified secretary for Payne, and is no longer involved in player acquisition, etc. As long as that's the case, I don't really care what happens - but if we are going to make a clean break with the past, he does need to go.

ag futbol
03-07-2013, 11:47 AM
Duane Trollins.
lulz

Maybe this is just me (and I have noooo formal journalism background) but I can see why people are consistently digging in against his reporting. Hell, I more than occasionally do myself.

He comes across this information, no fault there. Publishes what he has on CSN: ok, maybe maybe, not. Personally I would have sat on it and tried to gather more information from some of these players who spoke out about earl Cochrane. Why do they hate this guy so much? What happened at the club previously? Isn't that getting at what the readership wants to know? If we knew what Earl did, would anyone give a rats ass about an Earl Cochrane meme on instagram?

Alright so he doesn't go for that and decides to publish it. Can't completely write that off. Does it provide some color to the situation surrounding TFC or contain info we'd like to know? definitely. But... Headline is awful, details within the article are incomplete. It mentions absolutely NOTHING about Earl's previous conduct / rumored reputation at TFC. For the uninformed that's potentially a necessary precursor to understanding the motivation of behind the player's comments. He simply quotes what the players were saying and takes a screen capture from instagram. Pretty much as national enquirer as you can get. Maybe next week he can run with a photo of Kate Middleton pregnant and eating Doritos on the couch.

But the worst part of this whole thing is by running this story, he's impaired his ability to chase the real story (cochrane's conduct, what happened at TFC). That's inevitably going to be chased by someone else. None of the players will want to talk to him on or off the record and he's painted himself into the corner for the sake of running a cheap headline for a few quick hits.

ManUtd4ever
03-07-2013, 11:56 AM
Basically George Costanza with the Yankees... :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fpHKiOzeRrs/SnZnm-0NdgI/AAAAAAAAAaw/hmeRYjERYh8/s400/2007_05_arts_nap.jpg

:lol:

That's gold Jerry, GOLD!

Oldtimer
03-07-2013, 01:00 PM
But the worst part of this whole thing is by running this story, he's impaired his ability to chase the real story (cochrane's conduct, what happened at TFC). That's inevitably going to be chased by someone else. None of the players will want to talk to him on or off the record and he's painted himself into the corner for the sake of running a cheap headline for a few quick hits.

That's the difference between Duane and a real journalist. Real journalists take the extra time to thoroughly examine and verify their stories. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong, but you can't call the stuff he posts anything other than a rumour (Bas Ent to TFC anyone? :) ). His stuff doesn't belong in "news," since it isn't, and we should not be starting threads based on his writings as if it's gospel truth (any thread based on his blog should start "Rumour..."). I'd even hesitate to post his stuff in our blogs section, because people like Armen and bgnewf have much higher standards and are much more insightful in what they write than Duane.

Oldtimer
03-07-2013, 01:01 PM
Basically George Costanza with the Yankees... :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fpHKiOzeRrs/SnZnm-0NdgI/AAAAAAAAAaw/hmeRYjERYh8/s400/2007_05_arts_nap.jpg

:lol: :lol: :lol:

OgtheDim
03-07-2013, 01:02 PM
Rollins is on record as being more concerned about being scooped then about doing diligence.

Gazza
03-07-2013, 01:05 PM
That's always been my problem with bloggers. Heck, a lot of sports media in general. Being first instead of being right. It ends up looking like British tabloid "journalism" more than anything.

I don't mean to lump everyone together. I'm sure there are reputable sources for TFC and Team Canada info out there. I was definitely wrong about Molinaro. I've really enjoyed reading his stuff the passed couple of years.

Ajax TFC
03-07-2013, 01:32 PM
What does this have to do with Terry Dunfield? You must have me confused with someone else. Are you suggesting Doniel Henry's going to become a highly skilled midfielder? Is he that general we've been looking for to boss the midfield?

My point was, if this is true, you have to get rid of a guy who publicly insults your front office. I'm no fan of Cochrane. Do you think Payne's going to fire someone in his head office because of what a few scorned players have said about him? Most of whom were sent packing because they couldn't crack "the worst team in the world's" lineup?

And if we're relying on Henry to be our starting CB, then we'll most likely end up losing every game anyway.
It doesn't have anything to do with Dunfield, and I never thought you were a Dunfield fan. I was simply creating an example to illustrate a point. That point is that when you're the worst team in the league, you can't go about releasing important building blocks based on minor acts of unprofessionalism such as writing "haha" on a picture of the FO's biggest moron, or getting arrested for intoxication (in the city that's notorious for arresting people for that). Most teams just fine the player and make them give an apology, but no not here. Here we demand that they get kicked out of the team because we would rather bear the shame of being shit every year than bear the shame of having players who did something stupid.


And for the people saying that Cochrane isn't in as dangerous a role as he was: Isn't he? IIRC, at the presser Payne said that Cochrane would be the go to guy for players when they have questions. How is he supposed to do that when the players already hate him? And you also have to ask yourself why the players hate him. We all hate him because he's been sabotaging the FO for years, but I can't see how that would piss off the players too much. If the players hate him, it's probably because of the way he treats them, so again how is he supposed to be the go to guy for players?

MartinUtd
03-07-2013, 01:45 PM
De Guzman's almost my age, so the youth excuse goes out the window. Whatever happened to him, his play on the field was inexcusable. Putting something like that up for public consumption is childish and unprofessional.

What gets me are the young guys. Aren't they supposed to be social media savvy? lol. Not matter what you think about Earl Cochrane, Henry and Cordon(if he isn't gone already) should be dropped from this team.

I was really taken back by this. I have no sympathy for EC, but to see this kind of childish shit from representatives of my club is pathetic. I lost respect for the above list of players. If you're going to dish it, at least be eloquent about it.

ManUtd4ever
03-07-2013, 01:55 PM
I was really taken back by this. I have no sympathy for EC, but to see this kind of childish shit from representatives of my club is pathetic. I lost respect for the above list of players. If you're going to dish it, at least be eloquent about it.

Meh, it's just indicative of youth in general in today's society. I wouldn't read too much into it.

ag futbol
03-07-2013, 02:12 PM
Personally I find it impossible to simply remove EC from the equation.

1) because he's actually still with the club while most of these guys are gone 2) because these problems with players are incredibly TFC specific. These guys all seem to hold it together when they are somewhere else but TFC makes them angry enough to vent.

Also should be taken into account this was probably intended to be private. Hands up if you never took a shot at a coworker or boss in a private setting. These guys are probably red faced after being outed and were a little undisciplined to rant in a place where the info could be traced back to them. But is their conduct that different than what a lot of people partake in, especially in a poisonous work environment?

FreekAce
03-07-2013, 02:18 PM
But is their conduct that different than what a lot of people partake in, especially in a poisonous work environment?

maybe not, but when working in a public spotlight i do not think the standards are applied in the same way.

ag futbol
03-07-2013, 02:29 PM
maybe not, but when working in a public spotlight i do not think the standards are applied in the same way.
Certainly means there is more risk, but they are still human.

evermorian
03-07-2013, 07:53 PM
No one has asked if this is legitimate?

I follow some of these guys on twitter, and many of the handles aren't the same as their twitter ones. Some of the pictures look off too. Like Burgos for example. I don't know if it's real or not, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions.
According to Duane, the instagram accounts are legit for all the players who commented. If you read the comments under Duanes article, Duane himself explains his decision to post the story as well as confirming the accounts are legit. Take his word for what it is, but apparently he did a bit of research.

jazzy
03-07-2013, 08:49 PM
Cochrane isn't the boss. Only Henry is still with the team and I don't think there's much TFC can do to punish Henry. Cochrane is a cancer and needs to go for sake of fresh start for the club.

it's interesting that at the teams food testing session on the grounds,...Cochrane was nowhere to be seen although others were there. He's seems to be missing in action, i get a feeling the powers to be are aware of his limits.

Brooker
03-07-2013, 10:19 PM
Well it didnt take long for the drama in 2013 to start. Always fucking something.

jloome
03-08-2013, 12:59 AM
TReal journalists take the extra time to thoroughly examine and verify their stories.

No, most of them don't.

Unless we advance the theory that most media professionals aren't real journalists anymore, the standards are abysmal these days.

On this, a journalist doing his job would've called all the athletes, their agents, Cochrane, TFC, Payne and anyone else over that story.

But then they'd have to justify doing a story on a character attack, which many people would argue isn't news; so it doesn't meet the "priority" smell test for a real story. That's also why journalists tweet and blog rumors: so they can get a readership bump from something that either wouldn't meet the standard of importance or of proper reporting.

Even when they do the basic legwork of a phone call, journalists now are so underpaid and overworked, they'll deliberately ask questions in way to AVOID getting an answer, so they don't have to do more work, i.e. "I know there's no chance you'll give me a quote on this, but what did you think of what so-and-so said?"

Sounds sad, but it's true. It's why I write fiction these days. It's more honest.

themodelcitizen
03-08-2013, 01:25 AM
Josh Janniere was in there too, don't think he was mentioned in the article.

HuTor
03-08-2013, 02:53 AM
Don't care about the instagram. If this is a Cochrane thread....frankly I'm getting more worried about this, why is Cochrane still here?

I said it when Payne came in:

What Payne does with Cochrane is the real test of his mandate/independence. The fact that he "knew" him at DC is irrelevant. Loyalty to individuals doesn't matter. Your loyalty should be to the people who report to your executives. Cochrane's record at TFC is what is relevant.

Payne owes it to us, and especially to all other TFC employees, to have a world-class employee in that spot. It's time for TFC to be held to a higher standard around here.

I totally agree.
I have a good opinion about Payne, but keeping that cancer called Coch at TFC is a big negative mark to Payne, no matter what else. I don't give a shit that he "knows" him from DC.

The TFC FO needs to be clean of all the fokkers from previous regimes who have proven times and times again how detrimental they were to this club.
Is there a chance that this will ever happen?

Oldtimer
03-08-2013, 12:42 PM
No, most of them don't.

Unless we advance the theory that most media professionals aren't real journalists anymore, the standards are abysmal these days.



There's a real mixed bag out there. Some, like Molinaro, wouldn't dream of publishing without trying to get all points of view. Others do a little bit of research but it's half an effort. I get where you are coming from, being a writer yourself, it's disgusting what some get away with and still hold a job.

tiberius
03-10-2013, 11:45 AM
Don't care about the instagram. If this is a Cochrane thread....frankly I'm getting more worried about this, why is Cochrane still here?

...

What Payne does with Cochrane is the real test of his mandate/independence...

Payne owes it to us, and especially to all other TFC employees, to have a world-class employee in that spot. It's time for TFC to be held to a higher standard around here.

Your analysis is still spot on Ensco - but you have to admit Payne has had just one or two other issues on his mind.:) Cochrane can do little damage as he snoozes under his desk waiting for the judgement day... Getting world class employees is not easy and takes time. This is not like a player acquisition where you figure you will just bury or trade your mistakes away in a year or two... If he can repair the club's bad image and proves for all to see that he is in full control, he will be able to attract better talent. We might have to wait until the off season for Payne to deal with George err.... Earl, unless Payne's talks with Tyler Chicken pan out...