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Damien
03-06-2013, 12:03 PM
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/soccerusa/id/1732?cc=5901

ESPN: Much has been made about the league intervening in transfers like with Brek Shea (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/117724/Brek-Shea). But I recall that there was an incident in Toronto last year where it was reported that they wanted to buy a player, Olof Mellberg (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/120651/Olof-Mellberg), and the league stepped in and prevented it. Do you think it’s appropriate for the league to intervene in cases like that?

DG: At this level of our development, I think the league should continue to have enormous influence as to what kinds of decisions should be made so that teams don’t make decisions that can either compromise them, or have a negative effect on what it is we’re trying to achieve. Our view on Mellberg was that it was just not a decision that would be smart for TFC, or smart for the league as a whole. We are hesitant to ever say no but are really strong in assuring that we work with our clubs to have them make good decisions. It is that process that has put us in the position to be far more successful, and have accomplished far more than most people thought we would be able to achieve. That model works and will continue to work for the near future.

Phil
03-06-2013, 12:05 PM
So much fail last season....

prizby
03-06-2013, 12:08 PM
can't wait until someone signs a DP defender.

zeelaw
03-06-2013, 12:09 PM
This.... this is what can hold the league back. It blows my mind.

Phil
03-06-2013, 12:12 PM
I do have some serious integrity questions about this type of interference. It *could* also influence other things like allocation. I would expect a guy like Payne would be getting as much as he could from the league if they killed his deal. Mariner, I am not so confident that he would. Probably would go and trade a #1 draft pick for a DP striker with issues....oh wait.

JuliquE
03-06-2013, 12:14 PM
Right.. I wonder if this revelation puts a new face on the infamous DeRo fiasco. Many, then, thought it possible that, as he was promised they would, management, indeed, approached the league RE: his becoming a DP. I suppose it's no shocker that they step in when it comes to these sort of major designated player signings, especially given our track-record. In both cases, they might have thought that the DP initiative would be compromised, with many teams possibly being frightened off from employing it, after seeing all the abject failure for signings that have come through. Not to mention that the league must have been reluctant to set the precedence of a life-time MLSer becoming a DP -- understandable for them to have a moment's pause, before allowing a club doing as poorly as ours to set this precedent (v.s. their most winningest club in DCU); they seem a bit more open to it since then, mind.

Damien
03-06-2013, 12:16 PM
Major League Communism.

I bet if LA was looking at the same player the league would have rolled out the red carpet.

KRO
03-06-2013, 12:20 PM
Forgetting the rights and wrongs of this does anyone else think they did us a favour?

Where would our cap space be now if we had Mellberg on a large salary?

tfcleeds
03-06-2013, 12:28 PM
I've already stated my views on this in the other thread. In retrospect, in this instance am I happy our club was perhaps spared from our FO's own incompetence? I guess I'd have to admit yes. But I think it sets a questionable precedent for league interference. If it wasn't my club at stake, and I was viewing the situation from a neutral perspective, I'd be railing against the league interfering in any move that didn't contravene any league regulations re: salary cap, discovery, or whatever else. Makes you think this is the way they must run leagues in North Korea.

Yohan
03-06-2013, 12:28 PM
Forgetting the rights and wrongs of this does anyone else think they did us a favour?

Where would our cap space be now if we had Mellberg on a large salary?
not much change, considering TFC went after Darren O'Dea after Mellberg deal fell through

Pint
03-06-2013, 12:31 PM
probably not too different... We wouldn't have been able to trade for Hassli, and we wouldn't have signed O'dea if the mellberg thing went through. We would only have 1 DP slot open now but we would also have 1 dp playing at this time.

zeelaw
03-06-2013, 12:38 PM
Don't forget everyone that a TFC / VC / MTL playoff run is probably bad for American viewership numbers ... Not that this particular intervention had that in mind, but it sucks knowing they could exercise this maneuver.

Marc"2L"
03-06-2013, 01:01 PM
Don't forget everyone that a TFC / VC / MTL playoff run is probably bad for American viewership numbers ... Not that this particular intervention had that in mind, but it sucks knowing they could exercise this maneuver.

best argument i'v ever seen in favour of doing away with the playoff structure and having a league cup competition.

Yeah ok, I know never going to happen, but consider the truth to the statement. NBC DREADS the idea of a Canadian team in the Stanley cup final. Both teams being Canadian would simply not happen. There's too much money involved.

Sort of like the USA women not making the final of the Olympics.

It simply could not happen.

Beach_Red
03-06-2013, 01:17 PM
Major League Communism.

I bet if LA was looking at the same player the league would have rolled out the red carpet.

But over the last six years there's a huge difference in the way LA has been run and the way TFC has been run. This wasn't one decision by TFC, it was the end of a long run of bad management (we hope).

TOBOR !
03-06-2013, 02:03 PM
I'm really not bothered that much by it, truth be told.

TFC is like a child who won't eat it's vegetables, but keeps coming back for more pudding.


No ! You've had two lots, now fuck off ! There's others here besides you !

__wowza
03-06-2013, 02:47 PM
best argument i'v ever seen in favour of doing away with the playoff structure and having a league cup competition.

Yeah ok, I know never going to happen, but consider the truth to the statement. NBC DREADS the idea of a Canadian team in the Stanley cup final. Both teams being Canadian would simply not happen. There's too much money involved.

Sort of like the USA women not making the final of the Olympics.

It simply could not happen.

yeah, let's not fucking forget that the gretzky highstick during the playoffs would've had LA without their star player and shorthanded. if we won that game it would've been the leafs vs the habs for the HUNDRETH FUCKIN ANNIVERSARY OF THE STANLEY CUP, but then again, selling two canadian teams (with all of the history behind the rivalry) for the 100th anniversary of the cup wouldn't have had americans turning on their tvs.

ensco
03-06-2013, 02:51 PM
Reprint from earlier thread:

If I ever see the Don in person, I will thank him personally for doing this. Mellberg would have cost 5-10x what comparable teams were paying comparable players. Frankly, I wish they had stopped Ecks and O’Dea too. We are paying them 3x what other teams pay international defenders.

People in management positions lie sometimes. They have to. What does a manager say to the employee who has heard a rumour that he is going to be canned, when the manager knows it could be true but can't say anything yet? 99% of the time the manager lies, and it's usually not because he/she is an asshole, or trying to cheat the employee.


It's a question of context and motive. Some execs think that, because you have to lie on rare occasion, what the hell, it justifies lying all the time. It's a slippery slope. We've seen a couple of those associated with our team. (But that's a different topic.)


Garber understood what was going on here and was obviously working on getting the message through to MLSE's new owners. These things couldn't be done through the newspapers. Remember, the sale hadn't closed. There wasn't a lot he could really do other than protect us the way he did. He had the long term interest of our franchise at heart when absolutely nobody else in the universe did. He was our only friend in 2012. (Let's be clear, this wasn't altruism, he also didn't want these clowns to continue screwing the league salary structure up. That was his other motive, and it was a biggie.)

prizby
03-06-2013, 03:40 PM
Reprint from earlier thread:

If I ever see the Don in person, I will thank him personally for doing this. Mellberg would have cost 5-10x what comparable teams were paying comparable players. Frankly, I wish they had stopped Ecks and O’Dea too. We are paying them 3x what other teams pay international defenders.

People in management positions lie sometimes. They have to. What does a manager say to the employee who has heard a rumour that he is going to be canned, when the manager knows it could be true but can't say anything yet? 99% of the time the manager lies, and it's usually not because he/she is an asshole, or trying to cheat the employee.


It's a question of context and motive. Some execs think that, because you have to lie on rare occasion, what the hell, it justifies lying all the time. It's a slippery slope. We've seen a couple of those associated with our team. (But that's a different topic.)


Garber understood what was going on here and was obviously working on getting the message through to MLSE's new owners. These things couldn't be done through the newspapers. Remember, the sale hadn't closed. There wasn't a lot he could really do other than protect us the way he did. He had the long term interest of our franchise at heart when absolutely nobody else in the universe did. He was our only friend in 2012. (Let's be clear, this wasn't altruism, he also didn't want these clowns to continue screwing the league salary structure up. That was his other motive, and it was a biggie.)

its not about doing this...it is about integrity, lying/honesty, preferential treatment and the lack of transparency.

when vancouver have the #1 overall pick in 2014, will you be thanking Don?

ensco
03-06-2013, 03:41 PM
when vancouver have the #1 overall pick in 2014, will you be thanking Don?

You know what? I hated that deal, but opinion ran 75% in favour at the time. If I can find the thread within 30 seconds I will link it.

Here it is
http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?32366-TFC-acquire-Hassli-from-Whitecaps&highlight=hassli+traded

EDIT: the reaction was overwhelmingly positive, nearly 100%. I see that I liked it less than others, but didn't exactly hate it.

prizby
03-06-2013, 03:48 PM
You know what? I hated that deal, but opinion ran 75% in favour at the time. If I can find the thread within 30 seconds I will link it.

Here it is
http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?32366-TFC-acquire-Hassli-from-Whitecaps&highlight=hassli+traded

EDIT: the reaction was overwhelmingly positive, nearly 100%. I see that I liked it less than others, but didn't exactly hate it.

a lot of opinion was based on him being healthy, and him still being HERE

but like i said, will you be thanking Don for Vancouver having pick 1 (nixing the Olof deal allowed the acquasition of Hassli)

gdg_9
03-06-2013, 03:50 PM
Forgetting the rights and wrongs of this does anyone else think they did us a favour?

Where would our cap space be now if we had Mellberg on a large salary?

The exact same as it is now... I doubt TFC would have brought O'Dea in at that salary if Mellberg was already here.


(Actually, our salary cap situation may even be BETTER. I remember reading somewhere that O'Dea's cap hit is actually MORE than a DP would be).


.......................

EDIT: Sorry... saw Yohan already addressed this.

ryan
03-06-2013, 04:18 PM
Garber should block himself from running the league.

I don't care if it's the right move, the fact that a group of individuals control who plays where is fucking absurd. If you're too naive to think that it goes beyond controlling just things like this, well you're crazy. Winners and losers are dictated by Garber and Co, what a mess.

The Hassli deal was far more damaging and it was allowed? Fuck right off Garber.

ensco
03-06-2013, 04:23 PM
a lot of opinion was based on him being healthy, and him still being HERE

but like i said, will you be thanking Don for Vancouver having pick 1 (nixing the Olof deal allowed the acquasition of Hassli)

This is classic. I supported him blocking stupid deal A, so I should be happy he didn't block stupid deal B?

We live in the real world. He couldn't block every deal. That Hassli deal looks awful now, but it wasn't as clearcut when it was made.

You can blame Anselmi or Teachers if it'll make you feel better. But anyone who thinks that supporting Don quashing that Mellberg deal, somehow makes them complicit in Vancouver having our first pick, has problems with logic. The people who allowed Mariner to seek both deals are to blame.

ensco
03-06-2013, 04:24 PM
Garber should block himself from running the league.

I don't care if it's the right move, the fact that a group of individuals control who plays where is fucking absurd. If you're too naive to think that it goes beyond controlling just things like this, well you're crazy. Winners and losers are dictated by Garber and Co, what a mess.

The Hassli deal was far more damaging and it was allowed? Fuck right off Garber.

I don't agree with this, but there is something to this. Is the single entity legitimate? I'm not sure, at the end of the day.

Canary10
03-06-2013, 04:26 PM
I'm personally glad Garber nixed the Mellberg deal, but I don't agree with the whole principle of the thing. I think teams should be free to be stupid if that's what they want to do.

Beach_Red
03-06-2013, 04:30 PM
I don't agree with this, but there is something to this. Is the single entity legitimate? I'm not sure, at the end of the day.

Works for the NFL... ;)

And at the end of the day, as it were, that's what's going on here, MLS has to compete with the other leagues. Every other pro soccer league failed as a league even though some teams did well. But what's the point of a league with four financially healthy teams? Especially now that a TV contract is the most important thing to any league.

There isn't nearly as much meddling in TFC as this thread is making out (North Korea?!?!). If I ever meet Garber I'm going to ask him at what point in time he realized that MLSE was so poorly run? I'm sure at first MLS was excited that a company with teams in the NBA and NHL wanted in to their little soccer league....

Richard
03-06-2013, 04:43 PM
Didnt the league recommend Mo as well? Just wondering.

Don Julio
03-06-2013, 05:05 PM
If there are not clearly defined rules that are applied equally to all teams then the league is only a small step above the WWE, and that step only exists if we give assume Garber has good motives. I don't care whether Mellburg was the next Mista. This admission may not prove favouritism and corruption in the league's front office, but it sure opens up the door for accusations right, left and centre.

Beach_Red
03-06-2013, 05:09 PM
Didnt the league recommend Mo as well? Just wondering.

This is what I mean by asking Garber at exactly what point he realized MLSE was... well, what it was. The league recommended a guy who had coached less than a dozen games in his 'career' and never been in management and MLSE put him in charge of building an entire organization from scratch. Maybe MLS thought that with two other pro teams MLSE could put together a front office or something but we all know what happened instead.

Anyway, it's good to have all this behind us.

prizby
03-06-2013, 06:04 PM
Didnt the league recommend Mo as well? Just wondering.

Yep; yet people seem to forget that

ensco
03-06-2013, 06:13 PM
The league also gave us Klinsmann (who was directly responsible for finding Winter).

There's something to ponder in whether we've really been treated right as a franchise. To my eyes, none of it was malice, though.

Tough to complain given the hand MLS were dealt. It's the same hand we were dealt. We were supposed to get professional management, not cowardly absentee owners allowing the hired help, to run amok.

I cannot see Teachers mentioned in a news story, without feeling ongoing resentment towards them. It was deeply cynical, what they did, and they got away with it all.

Life is not fair.

Technorgasm
03-06-2013, 06:20 PM
fine the league wants to have over sight, considering MLS's position in world football, and the market share for sports broadcasting in N America it currently holds. . i can respect that.
but.

there is no REASON given why exactly the league felt it was a bad move. .
why would Mellburg be bad for TFC and Bad for the league?

they want rqapid fans, great press and profits out of TFC why not success on the field?

if i was a conspirist, i'd say that the league wants to ensure that NYRB and LAG continue to be the top of the market, whtinin three teirs.TFC currently being the bottom of the thrd teir.

yanks don't like getting beat by Canadians?
have i been watching too man y documentaries?

ag futbol
03-06-2013, 06:29 PM
But over the last six years there's a huge difference in the way LA has been run and the way TFC has been run. This wasn't one decision by TFC, it was the end of a long run of bad management (we hope).
Exactly. I question having head office interfere with this kind of stuff but this looks like the one last thing that finally pushed them over the edge and said "enough is enough". Mariner did a huge number of terrible transactions in a short time. Jason DeVos also re-tweeted the original story and said there was more to it. You can argue that the league was wrong to block it, but I very much doubt that came out of left field. If TFC had a proper system and communication in place with the MLS FO, this would have been avoided entirely.

Looking back now, I'm glad they put the kibosh on it. You don't have to spend DP money on a defender in this league to get ahead.

Auzzy
03-07-2013, 01:25 AM
OK folks, I was going to write one thing about the Mellburg situation, but then I just listened to DeVos & Wileman on the TSN radio soccer show. You can listen to it here: http://iphone.tsn.ca/tsnpodcasts/TSNFC-Mar6.mp3

This is huge, starting at around 27:30 minutes in. The story according to them is: another MLS team had a deal in place with Mellburg. TFC then came in and offered Mellburg roughly triple the amount. Totally out of whack. Desperation move by a management team whose scouting seemed to extend to watching the Euro Cup? Puts this all in a very different light, doesn't it!!

I don't like that Garber changed his story, but perhaps there was a bit of truth to both his stories. With an offer so far out of sync with the market, Garber could have gone to the MLSE board, or the old or new owners, and easily convinced them not to OK the deal. A DP signing is something that obviously needs upper management approval. Even if Mariner & Co. wanted the deal to the end, that would allow Garber the (somewhat weasily) words that, in the end, "TFC" didn't think it was the right deal for them.

Beyond that, I also feel that TFC was likely asking for exceptions at the same time, or at least, favourable interpretations of the rules. Just thinking of the whole Koevermans/JDG/Hassli situation at the time (in addition to Frings as a DP at a high salary).

ensco
03-07-2013, 06:39 AM
...

Puts this all in a very different light, doesn't it!!p

...

Garber could have gone to the MLSE board, or the old or new owners, and easily convinced them not to OK the deal. A DP signing is something that obviously needs upper management approval.


I hope you will permit me 10 seconds of endzone dancing, as I have been saying this about the Mellberg deal from the very first time his proposed salary was disclosed.

.....

Garber had very few options. Teachers perpetually sold TFC down the river by refusing to move Anselmi or otherwise get involved. MLSE had gone up in value regardless of bad management, so what did they care. All Teachers ever cared about was not getting their execs' names in the papers. Teachers are bigger than MLS, they would have told Garber that he needs to talk to Anselmi or Tanenbaum, and please go away. Teachers obviously hid behind certain predetermined "dollar approval limits", ie Anselmi didn't need approval for amounts that are trivial by corporate (ie Leaf/Raptor) standards. They would have seen Mellberg as no different from Jay McClement.

And there is nothing the prospective new owners could have done. Can't sleep in the bedroom until you own the house. But we have several clues that the new owners do get the joke. George Cope's takedown of Tanenbaum in the Burke firing being Exhibit A. The Payne hire (without Anselmi's involvement) being Exhibit B.