Will Rogers Centre be packed?

[Gilberto9]

Hey guys,

I'm wondering how many tickets have been sold for the TFC vs SKC match this upcoming weekend. Is the outcome expected to be as great as it was last season in the Champions League match vs Galaxy? I've said before on this forum that I don't live near Toronto, so I can't come to most games. I've decided to come out to really special occasions. But, will the atmosphere at the Rogers Centre be great this time around?

I sure do hope so

[TFC07]

It's not going to be packed like CCL game last year, but it still be a good turn out given current state of TFC. I believe there will be 30K fans at the game.

[kodiakTFC]

My guess is 35ish.

[ensco]

There is zero buzz around this game or this team. That game last March was a huge game, and had Beckham.

They'll announce 30-35K, but it'll be more like 20K.

[Ivy]

Is the giant banner coming?

[Yohan]

Apparently there are 50% off deals

[OgtheDim]

They havn't bothered to advertise this much.

I look forward to a VERY big push for the opening game in the Dome next season. I would hope somebody at Rogers will be pointing out the whole opening day vibe of the Jays, and the potential with a group of supporters that skew younger.

[Torontotonto]

I would be real suprised if it was 30K in attendance unless the do the right and give tickets to local soccer teams.

[burlington Red]

I'd say about 25k, which is a decent crowd considering our opponents don't have a Beckham or an Henry in their ranks. There is a buzz amongst the fans this season and it will probably be more noticeable in the numbers we bring to Montreal, which depending who you speak to will be in the 3-5k region, which is exceptional for an away team in MLS.

[ag futbol]

Short of a huge pump up throughout the week, I'll say mid 20s.

I'd use stubhub prices as an indicator. They just released new blocks of tickets in the past five days and prices went way down. Luckily for me I bought for my group when they were significantly more expensive :facepalm:

Just call me another happy customer of dynamic ticket pricing.

[Ajaxjambo]

I'd say about 25k, which is a decent crowd considering our opponents don't have a Beckham or an Henry in their ranks. There is a buzz amongst the fans this season and it will probably be more noticeable in the numbers we bring to Montreal, which depending who you speak to will be in the 3-5k region, which is exceptional for an away team in MLS.

I am involved with 2 of the bigger clubs in the Durham region and there has not been 1 email or note about this game. Another example of this team missing the boat methinks. I say you'll be luck to see 20k there. It will look like an early season Argo game, despite all of the pre-game bluster.

[Red CB Toronto]

Paul Beirne a few weeks ago tweeted that they were already at the 25K mark.

[ensco]

Paul Beirne a few weeks ago tweeted that they were already at the 25K mark.

TFC's track record on reporting attendance is atrocious.

It's sad. The next guy in the job will tell the same lies. Such is the world we live in.

[Red CB Toronto]

TFC's track record on reporting attendance is atrocious.

It's sad. The next guy in the job will tell the same lies. Such is the world we live in.

Are you talking about what they annouce on game day, because outside of the LA game where they were pretty good with updates on ticket sold they have never really talked about tickets sold leading up to a game.

[andyc]

I don't think that we will break 20k... I can see a bunch of season ticket holders not turning up as this doesn't feel like the home opener... Also despite all the cheap/freebie tickets I think the % of no shows will be very high. There has been no push with the football clubs in the area and limited motivation for the floater to attend.

Hopefully I'm wrong but there has been no buzz about this game from any of the more casual fans.

[spe18]

TFC's track record on reporting attendance is atrocious.

It's sad. The next guy in the job will tell the same lies. Such is the world we live in.

Perhaps some food for thought:

"Chivas USA’s announced attendance was 7,212 … and it looks highly dubious as an actual attendance count. (Teams across all sports routinely announce “tickets distributed” as the attendance, so Chivas USA is doing nothing unusual there.)"

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/03/an-outright-embarrassing-situation-at-chivas-usa/

[kodiakTFC]

MLS announced attendance is tickets distributed not turnstile attendance. So that why announced numbers are often 'embellished.'

[ensco]

Are you talking about what they annouce on game day, because outside of the LA game where they were pretty good with updates on ticket sold they have never really talked about tickets sold leading up to a game.

I'm talking about the number of games over the last 3 years where they've announced 18-20K in attendance, and anyone can see that the actual attendance has been maybe 10-14K.

I'm tired of people posting that it's tickets distributed or sold, as though its normal that 40% of people who buy tickets just don't show up. As if that's reasonable to assume.

It's hogwash. The whole thing is rotten, dishonourable.

It's way bigger than TFC. Lying about attendance is now table stakes in getting/keeping a job in an FO in pro sports.

[jloome]

I'm talking about the number of games over the last 3 years where they've announced 18-20K in attendance, and anyone can see that the actual attendance has been maybe 10-14K.

I'm tired of people posting that it's tickets distributed or sold, as though its normal that 40% of people who buy tickets just don't show up. As if that's reasonable to assume.

It's hogwash. The whole thing is rotten, dishonourable.

It's way bigger than TFC. Lying about attendance is now table stakes in getting/keeping a job in an FO in pro sports.

Look up the Columbus Dispatch's story on this from a couple of years ago, proving about half the Crew's attendance was ticket give aways, releasing free blocks of tickets to charities and such on gameday or the day before, then claiming the attendance regardless of whether they went.

People are right. It is based on "distributed." But that number is whatever the team wants it to be. It's as much a joke as the "losses" some of these teams are posting despite a 2.7M salary cap (about half the CFL, for crying out loud) and attendances of 15,000 plus.

But it is a big deal on a world basis because it drives the perception of the American league as taking over other from other countries in popularity rankings.

[mowe]

Well I for one believe the claim that they've sold 25k as of two weeks ago. I think about 30k show up which should make for a decent atmosphere.

[Daze]

RE ticket distributing:I read somewhere that the MLS is now the 7th most attended league in the world now. seems about right.

anyway, back on topic; I think that if we get the reported 30k then it will be a success, especially if they decide to do the right thing and cut off the upper bowl to maximize the space in the lower tiers - Looks better on TV etc.

[james]

1 issue for the game at the sky dome is tickets for non-season ticket holders in some sections is over pricd. That is 1 reason for them not selling as much tickets.

[Cashcleaner]

I doubt we'll see much more than 20K at Rogers Centre for this match. There has been very little marketing for this game, so I wouldn't hold my breath expecting the same size crowd we had when we were playing LA this time last year.

Come to think of it, there has been very little fanfare about the club and the new season altogether in this city. Could it be the Blue Jays stealing a lot of the thunder?

[james]

I'd say about 25k, which is a decent crowd considering our opponents don't have a Beckham or an Henry in their ranks. There is a buzz amongst the fans this season and it will probably be more noticeable in the numbers we bring to Montreal, which depending who you speak to will be in the 3-5k region, which is exceptional for an away team in MLS.

3-5k would be amazing. But i don't know if these numbers are real. I know TFC is giving away hundreds of free tickets and bus trips to Montreal but are all these people actually going to show up in Montreal or are they just going to throw the tickets away? wouldn't be suprised if that happens. My early prediction was 1k maybe 2k at most showing up in Montreal and i don't want people to be disapointed if 1 or 2k end up showing up you were thinking there was going to be 3k-5k. We will see what happens but i wouldn't have exspectations to high.

[james]

I doubt we'll see much more than 20K at Rogers Centre for this match. There has been very little marketing for this game, so I wouldn't hold my breath expecting the same size crowd we had when we were playing LA this time last year.

Come to think of it, there has been very little fanfare about the club and the new season altogether in this city. Could it be the Blue Jays stealing a lot of the thunder?


Some if it might be the Jays stealling the show. The fact that TFC has been at the bottom of the league for 6 years is another big issue followed by the fact TFC coaching and players has been a revolving door so no one has any connections or even know who the hell play and coach TFC anymore. Another reason there is no high exspectations in MLS, at the moment there isn't any reason to make people think TFC squad will be any better then last year. Also I think over priced tickets in the passed has scared people away even tho tickets sales have dropped now (some people probably don't know prices changed).

[ensco]

Forget the distributed free tickets thing. My point is that I went to a game early last year (it was against Chivas, and early in the year, ie they were 0-2 or 0-3 at the time, not 1-9). They announced 18,500 attendance, ie 85% of capacity, and I counted fannies in the seats in two representative sections (I sat in the west side, so was looking at the east side), and they were .... 30% full.

I posted this, and it was surreal, I got a stream of responses about the beer garden, people going to the washroom, people not coming, the south end has more (conveniently forgetting that the north end is deserted) .... as though these things could be the difference between the stadium being 30% and 85% full. So I've learned that, for whatever reason, people are somehow invested in this particular form of corporate storytelling.

You can take it to the bank that when a team official is tweeting excitedly about attendance, it's 100% weapons grade BS. Doubly true for this team.

[Oldtimer]

Well I for one believe the claim that they've sold 25k as of two weeks ago. I think about 30k show up which should make for a decent atmosphere.

Paul has never lied about tickets distributed from what I've seen , and it's been many years now. The attendance figures announced for the games may be bogus, but that's an MLS issue as much as a TFC one.

[Oldtimer]

"Chivas USA’s announced attendance was 7,212

Molinaro tweeted that it was time they moved Chivas.... enough already, and that was based on the announced attendance!

With Chivas it's much worse, because even out of the tickets distributed, a huge percentage of theirs are given away.

[ensco]

Paul has never lied about tickets distributed from what I've seen , and it's been many years now. The attendance figures announced for the games may be bogus, but that's an MLS issue as much as a TFC one.

You say that as though it's possible to know how many tickets TFC have given away.

Re Beirne, he absolutely peddled nosestretchers about the waiting list long after it obviously evaporated.

It's a pro sports issue for sure. It's bad in all sports.

[burlington Red]

wow, some of you guys getting way too worked about how figures are reported, who cares. Go to the game and cheer your team on, try and enjoy yourself, don't be standing trying to count empty seats. It's almost like you're amazed that the FO might be a bit dodgy. All professional teams spin, that's the way the world works.The whole Montreal ticket giveaway is spin, as the actual ticket price is the cheapest part of it, it is the hotels etc that are the expensive aspect, but announcing free tickets has generated interest in this game at a time when we know a lot of people are not as committed as they once were.Deal with it, so what if we have 20k as oppossed to 25k or whatever, we have a lot bigger fish to fry re our club right now than disputing how many people actually attend games.Pick your battles lads, this isn't one of them.

[ensco]

^Did you bother looking at the thread title before posting?

This isn't trivia, it's about ticket pricing and how you treat your customers (especially SSHs). I didn't renew in part because of this.

How about you decide what you think is important, and I'll decide what's important for me. Sound good? That'll save you the necessity of providing smug lectures.

[tfcleeds]

Molinaro tweeted that it was time they moved Chivas.... enough already, and that was based on the announced attendance!With Chivas it's much worse, because even out of the tickets distributed, a huge percentage of theirs are given away.Anyone catch Alexei Lalas' rant at HT during the Portland/Shite Bulls game re: Chivas? Said their transfer policies during the offseason border on being racist.

[OgtheDim]

To me there are two issues

a) MLS inflating its attendence and then crowing about how big it is

b) the dome game should/could have been sold better

Both are worth pointing out.

[burlington Red]

^Did you bother looking at the thread title before posting?

This isn't trivia, it's about ticket pricing and how you treat your customers (especially SSHs). I didn't renew in part because of this.

How about you decide what you think is important, and I'll decide what's important for me. Sound good? That'll save you the necessity of providing smug lectures.


If there is one yr to not complain about ticket prices for Season ticket holders, it's this one surely. We have year 1 pricing.

[Oldtimer]

If there is one yr to not complain about ticket prices for Season ticket holders, it's this one surely. We have year 1 pricing.

Word. Even if the product has been crap, the pricing now reflects that.

[ryan]

Anyone catch Alexei Lalas' rant at HT during the Portland/Shite Bulls game re: Chivas? Said their transfer policies during the offseason border on being racist.

We live in a world with all kinds of fucked up rules about hiring X amount of Y races, even if they are the inferior hire you seemingly need to have Z%. It's all bloody insane.

Now we have a football club that essentially is latino only + Dan Kennedy? We get fed this bullshit labour law excuse as to why they can't have Canadians on American teams more easily... (I mean how fucking hard is it for MLS to make up a 2 Canadian player slot rule for American clubs? Who the fuck says we have to change their labour status? BULLSHIT GARBER).....and yet they allow a bloody foreign team? (that nobody even gives a shit about. Half the reported 7K were giveaways)


I want more people, media/broadcasters/etc, to ride Garber about some of this bullshit. He's taken the league to great heights and that's impressive, but his shady nature is really showing these days.

[ensco]

Word. Even if the product has been crap, the pricing now reflects that.

No, it most emphatically does not.

TFC seasons are still amongst the highest in the league.

[nfitz]

No, it most emphatically does not.

TFC seasons are still amongst the highest in the league.This season? Renewals in the supporter this year were $190 for the 19-game package (or 20 games if you include Montreal). That's $10 a game. $228 in light-grey ($12 a game). I don't think any professional soccer team in the country offered renewals that cheap this season - including Edmonton. I'm having problems finding another MLS team that cheap - I'm sure some were ... but I'd hardly say that ours were among the highest in the league this season, for those renewing.

And seasons are such a bargain this year compared to buying at the box office. That $10 per game becomes $29 per game for regular games and $43 for the (5?) premium games, making face about $615 this year in supporters (ignoring the $165+ of Ticketmaster fees).

There's a lot we can criticize the club for. A lot! But I don't think 2013 season ticket prices is one of them.

[tiberius]

... It's almost like you're amazed that the FO might be a bit dodgy. All professional teams spin, that's the way the world works.... so what if we have 20k as oppossed to 25k or whatever, we have a lot bigger fish to fry re our club right now than disputing how many people actually attend games.Pick your battles lads, this isn't one of them.

Burlington - you are dead wrong. The ethical conduct of this organization has been a huge part of the problem in the past six years. Your attitude of "that's the way the world works" and "bigger fish to fry" is the type of short term thinking that has us where we are today. Attendance means, by any reasonable definition "those who ATTEND". Ensco is spot on - the out and out obvious lies in the past on attendance and waiting list are among the most public indicators of the integrity of the organization. Inflating your numbers a couple of K thru give aways can be chaulked up to marketing "puffing" and nobody would probably know or care. The whoppers last year were beyond the pale - I counted at one of our games last year and came up with between 5K-6K on announced of around 18K - utter BS (my count included the 45 RPB's lined up in the washroom:)). I like to be associated with enterprises that are honest and have integrity. Just because you don't care if you are lied to, over and over again, doesn't mean that the rest of us don't care. We have come a long way in the past 4 months, in terms of lifting the integrity and reputation of this team - Bierne was the "face" of the old regime - they should get him to pack his reputation into a Barbie suitcase and replace him with someone who will shoot a lot straighter than he ever has. I get it that the "attendance issue" is a league problem - perhaps our organization should stand up and be counted on this issue (hardly any pun intended:o)

To answer the thread - no the dome will not be packed, 32K distributed tickets, 18000 actually at the game. The bigger issue will be the real home opener at BMO - lets hope for decent weather to get folk out!

[glaze]

One of the main issues is the club has priced out most of its walk up crowd. As a light grey SSH, I feel that this year I am getting fair value. In fact with the free jersey I consider the season a steal. But, my ticket to the Dome opener has a face value of 55 dollars. My friend has a 6 year old son who is really into soccer. If he were to log into ticketmaster and consider buying a pair he'd be out $110, before fees, parking, food, etc. Thats not how you reach new audiences.
The club inflated their numbers last season. I agree with the above prediction that the crowd will be around 20K, but they will announce 28-30. The home opener at BMO will be full, the question is how will the crowds hold up in the summer.

[Pint]

If people really want ticket to the game check stubhub.... tickets as low as 9 per seat

[ensco]

This season? Renewals in the supporter this year were $190 for the 19-game package (or 20 games if you include Montreal). That's $10 a game. $228 in light-grey ($12 a game). I don't think any professional soccer team in the country offered renewals that cheap this season - including Edmonton. I'm having problems finding another MLS team that cheap - I'm sure some were ... but I'd hardly say that ours were among the highest in the league this season, for those renewing.

And seasons are such a bargain this year compared to buying at the box office. That $10 per game becomes $29 per game for regular games and $43 for the (5?) premium games, making face about $615 this year in supporters (ignoring the $165+ of Ticketmaster fees).

There's a lot we can criticize the club for. A lot! But I don't think 2013 season ticket prices is one of them.

Supporters pricing is a small fraction of the picture. Plus, those seats/prices are mostly unavailable to the public.

Like I said, some people just want to believe.

I don't have the energy to find the threads where people did the work, but most of the seats are still at the top end. Here's a story I found in 10 seconds of searching that has MLSE confirming the point at the time of the 2013 pricing announcement:

"TFC ticket prices remain near the top of MLS teams, the MLSE president acknowledged."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-slashes-season-ticket-prices-after-disastrous-season/article4621019/

[mowe]

^ You misread the article. Anselmi admitted that TFC prices were among the highest for the 2012 season. They couldn't cut prices by 20% and still be the one of the highest.

[nfitz]

"TFC ticket prices remain near the top of MLS teams, the MLSE president acknowledged."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-slashes-season-ticket-prices-after-disastrous-season/article4621019/That seems to be in the discussion of single ticket prices (which is quite true); I wouldn't read too much definitive into the paragraph structure of a CP article; the actual pricing that is out there is pretty clear that Toronto's season tickets weren't particularly expensive this year.

I'd presume that unlike most MLS teams, the majority of TFC tickets are sold as seasons, or in packages - and I'd expect that single tickets would remain expensive.

Which is unfortunate, as it does discourage walk-up buyers, that's true, and that's a problem. And probably does more to make the scalpers happy than anything else - as they can sell their $29 face tickets in supporters for $15 and still make a healthy profit.

[Canary10]

Don't know if the Rogers Centre will be packed, but I'm sure looking forward to the Budweiser (C) tifo!

[ensco]

^ You misread the article. Anselmi admitted that TFC prices were among the highest for the 2012 season. They couldn't cut prices by 20% and still be the one of the highest.

The quote is a bit ambiguous. But I don't think he said what you are saying either.

[GBV]

Lots of free tickets seem to be up for grabs in contests.
Should help attendance.

[tiberius]

Lots of free tickets seem to be up for grabs in contests.
Should help attendance.

You can give a Torontonian a ticket, but you cannot make them come...g:D

[PopePouri]

Question: Usually I buy my tickets from ticketBastard however, it's not going to sold out. Will they be selling tickets at the Rogers Centre and is it worth it just to walkup?

[tiberius]

Question: Usually I buy my tickets from ticketBastard however, it's not going to sold out. Will they be selling tickets at the Rogers Centre and is it worth it just to walkup?

Why walk up and get hosed on the pricing? You can get good lower bowl tickets on stubhub for less that $10 a ticket! They have over 600 tickets available...

[Marc"2L"]

Got two in the supporters section and 5 in the upper deck. Didn't think I would land ss tickets so got them in 519 just in case.

Im happy, now I just need to find a few people without plans on Saturday willing to come up from niagara.

Oh well, don't care. I got two in 123. Happy as can be.
Something something TFC!

[Gilberto9]

ON StubHub, ticket prices are very cheap for section 142, 141, etc. Which section will be the most loud and passionate throughout the game? That's where I want to bring my voice!

[Ivy]

ON StubHub, ticket prices are very cheap for section 142, 141, etc. Which section will be the most loud and passionate throughout the game? That's where I want to bring my voice!
116-127

[Marc"2L"]

Just checking ticketmaster day before the game.

Not too much left in the most expensive seats, could only find in pairs, or 3's.
Middle deck still has pockets of 4, probably a few with a bit more.

Not going to be like last year. Hope I'm wrong

[mowe]

Larson tweeted that the club expects about 26,000 for this game. Decent crowd.

[Phil]

Just some notes - club used to say the scanned number. That changed a few years ago, its now the sold number. You may hear 21000 at BMO but only really see 16000. The only 'honest' games would be the CCL as they are not necessarily automatically pushed to all seasons holders.

As long as the lower bowl is rocking tomrrow I will be pretty happy.

[Red CB Toronto]

Just some notes - club used to say the scanned number. That changed a few years ago, its now the sold number. You may hear 21000 at BMO but only really see 16000. The only 'honest' games would be the CCL as they are not necessarily automatically pushed to all seasons holders.

As long as the lower bowl is rocking tomrrow I will be pretty happy.

One of the champions league games last year had an announced crowd of just over 5K

[Phil]

^^^ that was an honest number ;)

[Oldtimer]

238 tickets on stubhub today... most of those will end up as empty seats, plus some SSH will just not show up.

[nfitz]

Just some notes - club used to say the scanned number. That changed a few years ago, its now the sold number.Is there evidence of that? We had MLS attendances announced at BMO as low as 14,600 last season - however all evidence is that the season tickets sold exceed that, let alone partial packs, single game sales, etc.

We had other games last season, where you could see that the single seat sales (the tops of certain sections, the 104 away section) were packed, but everywhere else empty, and yet we only had 18K announced - where you'd think actual tickets sold was over 20K.

I'm not saying the announced number is the real scanned number. But neither do I think it's simply the sold number.

[grizzle]

I think there will be a good number of people there. My guess is around 30k. Will be nice to not freeze my ass off on opening day. I remember opening day a few years ago vs. Dallas or Seattle (I believe) it was FREEZING at BMO!

[tfcleeds]

^Yes, that would be Seattle.

[TorontoGooner]

I think there will be a good number of people there. My guess is around 30k. Will be nice to not freeze my ass off on opening day. I remember opening day a few years ago vs. Dallas or Seattle (I believe) it was FREEZING at BMO!

Remember the home opener against Portland a few years ago. It was like -10c! Then Martina scored a wonder goal and I tipped a beer all over my buddy. Good times

[ensco]

Remember the home opener against Portland a few years ago. It was like -10c! Then Martina scored a wonder goal and I tipped a beer all over my buddy. Good times

Seattle was cold but Portland was the coldest.

Remember the song written for that goal? A classic.

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?27317

[james]

so about 25k was what they said on TV was at the game. Not the greatest but if we are getting 3-4k travelling to Montreal next week that is a new record which is impressive so not so upset we only had half full Sky Dome.

Montreal i believe have sold around 30k total for next week game and they are aiming to sell 38,000 (the top deck will be closed so 38,000 is a sell-out).

[Red CB Toronto]

so about 25k was what they said on TV was at the game. Not the greatest but if we are getting 3-4k travelling to Montreal next week that is a new record which is impressive so not so upset we only had half full Sky Dome.

Montreal i believe have sold around 30k total for next week game and they are aiming to sell 38,000 (the top deck will be closed so 38,000 is a sell-out).

As of a few days ago there were 8,000 tickets left. The upper deck is not actually open for sale, it is just where they issued a bunch of the tickets for TFC season ticket holders.

[ensco]

Since I'm the one who made a big deal of the history of false reporting, I should say that, to my eye, announced attendance of 26K looked accurate to me. The lower bowl was mostly full.

I appreciate TFC not inflating the number. Good on them.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Since I'm the one who made a big deal of the history of false reporting, I should say that, to my eye, announced attendance of 26K looked accurate to me. The lower bowl was mostly full.

I appreciate TFC not inflating the number. Good on them.


And good on you for saying so. Very big. Thumbs up!

[nfitz]

so about 25k was what they said on TV was at the game. Not the greatest ...The announced attendance was 25,991 at the stadium, if I remember correctly. Over 26K if you count those on the pitch :)

Surely that IS the greatest attendance for an MLS game in Toronto, ever.

It doesn't exactly send a message to the club that they shouldn't be playing at Rogers Centre. Though if the league is going to start so early in future years, I don't really see another option.

[Yohan]

The announced attendance was 25,991 at the stadium, if I remember correctly. Over 26K if you count those on the pitch :)

Surely that IS the greatest attendance for an MLS game in Toronto, ever.

It doesn't exactly send a message to the club that they shouldn't be playing at Rogers Centre. Though if the league is going to start so early in future years, I don't really see another option.
playing on that carpet is a disgrace to the game. even though Rogers will be happy that Skydome gets more use, and willing to use the weather as the excuse, but I'm not fan of Skydome. unless real grass gets used

[nfitz]

playing on that carpet is a disgrace to the game. even though Rogers will be happy that Skydome gets more use, and willing to use the weather as the excuse, but I'm not fan of Skydome. unless real grass gets usedI 100% agree.

And yet given that the early games do attract the crowds, that TFC doesn't control whether there's grass or not at Rogers, that realistically not playing indoors means that we'd be starting with 3-4 weeks on the road every year ... I can see this continuing.

And once or twice a year ... I can live with it.

[Richard]

I think the Jays said they are planning for real grass in about two years.

[ryan]

I think the Jays said they are planning for real grass in about two years.

Which boots the Argos out, also making me wonder if they'd allow it for soccer use?

[Mark in Ottawa]

It would be a horrible shame to play more than a few early season games in the dome.
The SSS has an intimate feel that you just don't get at the Rogers Centre.

Far from the field in a large cavernous area of bad acoustics, I might just as well watch it on TV.

[Dave67]

How do people ever expect to:

1. honour international dates
2. alleviate summer fixture congestion
3. not play on turf

all at the same time. I'll take 3 or 4 games on the plastic if it means acheiving 1 and 2

[TFC07]

How do people ever expect to:

1. honour international dates
2. alleviate summer fixture congestion
3. not play on turf

all at the same time. I'll take 3 or 4 games on the plastic if it means acheiving 1 and 2

Good news is that Rogers are planning to install real turf (grass) in couple of years. Not sure Rogers would allow TFC (or soccer) play at Rogers Centre when they install grass, but I think loss of Argos and couple other events means they need to find something to replace them so they make some extra money. Having soccer games at Rogers when the grass is install makes perfect sense for them IMO. Since Rogers own TFC and sponsor TFC, I wouldn't be surprised to see more games at Rogers Centre in the future.

[Dave67]

Good news is that Rogers are planning to install real turf (grass) in couple of years. Not sure Rogers would allow TFC (or soccer) play at Rogers Centre when they install grass, but I think loss of Argos and couple other events means they need to find something to replace them so they make some extra money. Having soccer games at Rogers when the grass is install makes perfect sense for them IMO. Since Rogers own TFC and sponsor TFC, I wouldn't be surprised to see more games at Rogers Centre in the future.

The Bills in Toronto series was extended for 5 years. So I guess that grass would be destroyed every year in November or December when the NFL game is played on it?

[TFC07]

The Bills in Toronto series was extended for 5 years. So I guess that grass would be destroyed every year in November or December when the NFL game is played on it?

It's possible or they can take grass out and install plastic turf for football. I am sure Rogers might be regretting about extending Bills series for 5 more years now (they can't even sell tickets for this game at regular price).

[james]

Thing is with real grass i am guessing real dirt at the bases, could be a mess to play a Socce game there.

Jays want real grass at Dome soon so they don't want Argos ripping up the grass and TFC don't want them doing the same to BMO field, no to mention there painted yard lines and eveything that just look awful. Argos need there own stadium.

[Richard]

So why not winterize BMO? Im sure in todays world this can be made possible.

[Cuppy]

I just received an email from Argo HO in regards to season tix and I couldn't help but notice that their exhibition game is being played at varsity stadium. Perhaps this test is the first step to having the Argos relocated

[TFC07]

So why not winterize BMO? Im sure in todays world this can be made possible. It costs a lot of money and TFC don't see any big ROI from it unless they do it so they can host Leafs game annually for winter classic, but BMO field currently too small to host an event like that.

[glaze]

Argos can never relocate to Varsity. The current stadium seats like 5G and there is no room for expansion. That ship has sailed. York U could be a possibility though, but I imagine they have their eyes set on somehow getting into BMO.
The fear I have with the DOme is TFC getting the idea that they could move a playoff or championship game there in the future.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I just received an email from Argo HO in regards to season tix and I couldn't help but notice that their exhibition game is being played at varsity stadium. Perhaps this test is the first step to having the Argos relocated

Wow.


Just the fact they're playing ANY game there is huge after the negotiating debacle that made sure they couldn't make varsity their home...

[MKR]

i ended up at the Dome and i thought it was a good atmosphere. I don't know what it looked like on TV, but in person the crowd looked respectable and sounded good. Honestly, other than the fact that the games are played on carpet, i think the Dome is not a terrible place to enjoy one or 2 games a year.

and LOL at the idea of any professional team playing a game at varsity. why on earth would the argos play there? That place is a glorified high school ground. I respect the Argos and what they mean to this city and i hope they sort out their playing situation.

[Mulder]

and LOL at the idea of any professional team playing a game at varsity. why on earth would the argos play there? That place is a glorified high school ground. I respect the Argos and what they mean to this city and i hope they sort out their playing situation.

Rogers Centre gave them no dates for a possible pre-season home game. They were faced with the idea of neutral site game (Quebec City possibility), play 2 road pre-season games, or play at varsity.

The Argonauts don't even get 4th pick of dates there. Playing on Tuesday's and Thursdays, Sunday evening? 1 home game between September 3rd and October 24th.

From all accounts, I've heard that Rogers Centre gave 10 dates to play 9 home games.

Last year we played a home game on every single day of the week. I'd complain, but this also happened in 2004. Look what happened both those seasons. :)

[Carts]

Argos can never relocate to Varsity. The current stadium seats like 5G and there is no room for expansion. That ship has sailed. York U could be a possibility though, but I imagine they have their eyes set on somehow getting into BMO.
The fear I have with the DOme is TFC getting the idea that they could move a playoff or championship game there in the future.

BINGO!

Should we ever go on a run, make the playoffs - the LAST THING I want to see happen is for us to abandon BMO for the Dome...

Yes, even if that means my tickets at BMO are 4-times the cost for the MLS Final at BMO than the Dome - I'd rather stay at BMO...

Carts...

[ensco]

BINGO!

Should we ever go on a run, make the playoffs - the LAST THING I want to see happen is for us to abandon BMO for the Dome...

Yes, even if that means my tickets at BMO are 4-times the cost for the MLS Final at BMO than the Dome - I'd rather stay at BMO...

Carts...

I think that ship has sailed. They've had two very successful games there. They would move a championship game to the Dome for sure. It's not just the money, it's what the fan base would want. While nobody here supports it, the majority of the ticket base (suits and families) do not want to be outdoors in December.

Only hope is that they would put grass in for it.

[ManUtd4ever]

BINGO!

Should we ever go on a run, make the playoffs - the LAST THING I want to see happen is for us to abandon BMO for the Dome...

Yes, even if that means my tickets at BMO are 4-times the cost for the MLS Final at BMO than the Dome - I'd rather stay at BMO...

Carts...

Agreed.

Although, we are undefeated at the Dome in 3 total matches thus far...

Just sayin' g:D

[Detroit_TFC]

I was a bit surprised how good the 25K looked. Filled in nicely. From where I was in 130 (for the first half), the sound from the supporters section wasn't too bad. Despite those things, it's not a good space for soccer, not sure it is a good place for baseball even.

[OgtheDim]

I could see the Argos moving to a purpose built stadium in Mississauga or Vaughn or Markham.

The issue with grass at the Dome is light - that darn photosynthesis thing. Science has yet to work out how to do a field that big with our weather; the only examples are in warm weather where a dome can stay open most of the year. Rogers talks about it but I suspect it will be another 10-15 years until they do. By then, they should be thinking of moving to a purpose built stadium north of the city as well (Downsview comes to mind). The Dome isn't designed for a 50+ lifespan.

[Oldtimer]

I'm getting soft... I think I would prefer a December MLS Cup finals match to be indoors. Yeah, it's not as great view and the Dome cuts some of the noise, but the thought of playing in deep winter (even if they do it in England) is unappealing.... especially since we would get low turnout for one of the most critical matches ever! It needs to be indoors..

Besides, I'd love to break all the records for a match in TO.

November semis though? BMO it is.

[ManUtd4ever]

I could see the Argos moving to a purpose built stadium in Mississauga or Vaughn or Markham.

The issue with grass at the Dome is light - that darn photosynthesis thing. Science has yet to work out how to do a field that big with our weather; the only examples are in warm weather where a dome can stay open most of the year. Rogers talks about it but I suspect it will be another 10-15 years until they do. By then, they should be thinking of moving to a purpose built stadium north of the city as well (Downsview comes to mind). The Dome isn't designed for a 50+ lifespan.

If I'm not mistaken, Rogers is installing a permanent natural grass surface at the Dome as early as next year in time for the 2014 MLB season.

[Mulder]

The Dome isn't designed for a 50+ lifespan.

I'm not sure where people get these figures from. The dome structure it's self was designed for a 300 year return period for the City of Toronto, while the roof was built to withstand loads for a 100 year period. Both with proper maintenance.

[OgtheDim]

I'm not talking the basic engineering structure (although I remember the 80's and engineering promises)

I'm talking about the natural obsolescence of how we interact with the form. The 60-80's mega structures were designed to please the needs of the time, without thought to how we would deal with them in the future. Skydome is one of the last mega structures like that in NA.

[Mulder]

I'm not talking the basic engineering structure (although I remember the 80's and engineering promises)

I'm talking about the natural obsolescence of how we interact with the form. The 60-80's mega structures were designed to please the needs of the time, without thought to how we would deal with them in the future. Skydome is one of the last mega structures like that in NA.

With Rogers pouring 250million into renovations into the Skydome over the next few years. I don't see a new stadium being built for the Jays anytime in the next 20-30 years.

[ag futbol]

The issue with grass at the Dome is light - that darn photosynthesis thing. Science has yet to work out how to do a field that big with our weather; the only examples are in warm weather where a dome can stay open most of the year. Rogers talks about it but I suspect it will be another 10-15 years until they do. By then, they should be thinking of moving to a purpose built stadium north of the city as well (Downsview comes to mind). The Dome isn't designed for a 50+ lifespan.
There are still problems in this area but for a stadium where cost is not a constant solutions are available.

I toured Ajax's stadium in the summer and from what they were saying pretty much every modern enclosed stadium has issues with the grass, because of light, airflow and a whole bunch of other reasons. In most of these modern structures the grass itself is grown on a great-like structure that also facilitates heating / drainage. Ajax is considered a world leader in this area and the way they deal with the problem is they have huge sun-lamps that are brought around to different areas of the pitch that provide a substitute for natural sunlight. They also have huge fans that sit around the sides that circulate the air. Seems to work, they were voted the best pitch in europe. They are also further north than Toronto so despite having very favorable agricultural conditions, they'd also struggle with natural light a bit.

Anyway, point being that you could probably find a feasible solution for the dome if you threw enough money at it.

[QBall]

Rogers has not been a very cordial landlord to the Argos. I guess since the Argos are not owned by Rogers/MLSE they're probably seen as a necessary evil more than anything else. While I have no reason to doubt people's report of Rogers putting in natural grass for the Jays the amount of revenue they would lose from the loss of the Argos plus I can't imagine how you can host other events like Motorcross/Monster Trucks, concerts, trade shows and Disney on Ice with permanent real grass on the field. It seems like a bad business decision to me, but then again I'm not privy to their decision making process.

[nfitz]

I'm getting soft... I think I would prefer a December MLS Cup finals match to be indoors.It might even give us a tactical advantage, if we're playing there once or twice a year. We're still undefeated at Rogers Centre - against the likes of Galaxy and Liverpool!

[james]

The Arizona Cardinals solved the grass indoors issue. They built the stadium so that the field actually is put on rollers and slides outside of the stadium to grow. When it is game time they wheel the grass back into the stadium. I don't know if it is possible to do that in Toronto as where would you even put the grass ?(like many NFL stadiums Arizona play in middle of no where, Sky Dome is in Downtown prime real estate) And also the Sky Dome was not originally built to do something like that so might not be possible and even if it is possible would cost some mega bucks to do such a renovation.