West Ham Players Angry...

[Shaughno]

West Ham's players are said to be angry after being forced to fly economy class in two separate planes for a friendly in Canada against MLS team Columbus Crew. The MLS had told West Ham they would be flown business class but the travel firm they were using went bust. (The Sun)


Don't really blame them either... but, but, but... don't ever say that SHIT HOLE is in Canada. :lol:

[ganzo_thebest]

West Ham is playing the Crew in Toronto?????

[noochie]

Article goes on to mention how many of the players have expressed concern over the "astroturf"... talk about the achilles heel of TFC, this turf is a joke.

[Hooligan69]

I didn't realize the all-star game featured West Ham vs. Columbus Crew a BMO.

[ExiledRed]

Article goes on to mention how many of the players have expressed concern over the "astroturf"... talk about the achilles heel of TFC, this turf is a joke.

Watch Bellamy as he dazzles us with his ability to sit on the bench dressed in a suit.

[ExiledRed]

Bellamy wouldn't even train on the shit, and that comes from Carver himself.

[Northern Soul]

Watch Bellamy as he dazzles us with his ability to sit on the bench dressed in a suit.

Or swing a golf club at his teammates.

[olegunnar]

I didn't realize the all-star game featured West Ham vs. Columbus Crew a BMO.

West Ham is playing Columbus in a friendly on Sunday July 20th

[ExiledRed]

Or swing a golf club at his teammates.

That's why he joined the irons

[Chevy]

Don't really blame them either... but, but, but... don't ever say that SHIT HOLE is in Canada. :lol:


If you think they are pissed off now, wait until they get to see Columbus.:eek:

[Troll]

Some interesting quotes in The Sun's article...


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1432066.ece





Tonight West Ham play non-league Hampton and stay overnight at a hotel near Heathrow.

Tomorrow, half the squad fly to Chicago on one scheduled flight with the remainder flying out hours later.

After that nine-hour trip, plus the wait at Chicago’s O’Hare airport, they catch another plane for the three-hour flight to Columbus before facing Crew on Sunday. The following Thursday, the MLS All Star team — which is expected to include David Beckham — provide the opposition in Toronto.

To cap it all, this game is on astroturf and many players are reluctant to turn out because of injury fears.




Should be a GREAT game, huh? :rolleyes:

[Jack]

Wow...once again, the cheapness of the stadium shows through.

[TO DEVILS]

Maybe they will protest as well. LMAO!!!

[ilikemusic]

The more negative press the field gets the better! :D

[noochie]

The more negative press the field gets the better! :D

Agreed... I wish the city / MLSE would issue a statement that at least they are investigating a natural surface. Unless I have missed something, I am pretty sure they haven't.

[dantdot]

Agreed... I wish the city / MLSE would issue a statement that at least they are investigating a natural surface. Unless I have missed something, I am pretty sure they haven't.

I remember Paul saying they're conducting a study whether it's feasible to lay grass on the turf in summer while removing it in the winter for community use.

[Marco2K]

Bottom line we need real grass. I would rather wach TFC at Brock stadium. People that say the turf is fine is nuts.

we need real grass.

[mdc 77]

Having the national team talk about the superior pitch in Montreal and now having the topic come up again for the All-Star match, not to mention potential TFC players who would never play here because of it. If anything it's another message to MLSE that a plastic pitch doesn't cut it if you want to be world class.

I don't waste much energy complaining about this though...we all know the answer is MLSE couldn't give a shit as long as they are making some cash off this operation.

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes...lets all cheer for West Ham who will most probably end up playing their reserves because of "mysterious illnesses" to their regulars. Too bad we will miss great players like Bellamy and Dyer....

[Tintin]

I remember Paul saying they're conducting a study whether it's feasible to lay grass on the turf in summer while removing it in the winter for community use.


And that's the only solution because the city wants and of course deserves Community use.

[noochie]

Yes...lets all cheer for West Ham who will most probably end up playing their reserves because of "mysterious illnesses" to their regulars. Too bad we will miss great players like Bellamy and Dyer....

Yeah, and all those great fans in Columbus get to see them. How fantastic is that! Play on the nice grass in Columbus and then come here and say "Yeah, I think I will sit this one out."

When the turf does go... do you think that they would allow us to have a ceremonial turf burning? Or is that akin to lighting 16,000,000 tires on fire? Maybe Environment Canada would have something to say about that.

[MadMike]

Has anyone seem the outdoor soccer facility built of of commisioner's street down by cherry beach ?? it was supposed to open this summer ..... it is not real grass ??? it is city owned .

[Dirk Diggler]

Yeah, and all those great fans in Columbus get to see them. How fantastic is that! Play on the nice grass in Columbus and then come here and say "Yeah, I think I will sit this one out."

When the turf does go... do you think that they would allow us to have a ceremonial turf burning? Or is that akin to lighting 16,000,000 tires on fire? Maybe Environment Canada would have something to say about that.

My comments about Bellamy and Bowyer (typed Dyer by mistake) was tongue in cheek but yeah, I agree none the less. What's funny is that fact that people seem to ask for evidence everyday when there is more and more evidence piling on throughout the year. Seriously, how many times have we heard someone on this board say "The turf is not the problem. No one has ever said that!" yet you see stuff like this on a consistent basis now. Wouldn't surprise me if Dickov's decision to join Blackpool instead of TFC might have something to do with this as well.

[jloome]

I agree with them, frankly. There is fuck all out there that supports players' contentions that field turf is dangerous. Nothing . Sweet fuck all.

And while you can make the argument that it doesn't matter, because it's what they think that matters, not reality, I'd always argue in favour of not repeating a lie. If people want to discuss field turf as a problem, it should always be because "players THINK" it's a problem, not because it definitively is , as no one here -- as you mention-- has ever backed up their bitching with anything other than player hyperbole.

[Hooligan69]

West Ham is playing Columbus in a friendly on Sunday July 20th

Stop ruining my fun. :lol:

[el rojo fanatico]

It is a shame that they are bitching, you would think that they would be happy to be out of East London for a couple of weeks.
Irons scum!

[ExiledRed]

I agree with them, frankly. There is fuck all out there that supports players' contentions that field turf is dangerous. Nothing . Sweet fuck all.

And while you can make the argument that it doesn't matter, because it's what they think that matters, not reality, I'd always argue in favour of not repeating a lie. If people want to discuss field turf as a problem, it should always be because "players THINK" it's a problem, not because it definitively is , as no one here -- as you mention-- has ever backed up their bitching with anything other than player hyperbole.


In this situation, we have a multi million dollar corporation selling pigshit as "the future of chocolate"

We also have a whole bunch of people who DONT have to eat this amazing new form of chocolate (thats you btw), saying
"It's just like real chocolate, there's no evidence that eating that will cause any problems" while the people who DO have to eat it, are saying "that's Pigshit, I dont want to eat it"

Well suck it up, say the bunch, real men can eat pigshit, we only want men who can eat pigshit.

and then

How come we cant get anybody to eat it? How come the guys we forced to eat it were all sick last year?

It cant have anything to do with the pigshit, it's perfectly organic, and if we had real chocolate, it would melt.

[jloome]

In this situation, we have a multi million dollar corporation selling pigshit as "the future of chocolate"

We also have a whole bunch of people who DONT have to eat this amazing new form of chocolate (thats you btw), saying
"It's just like real chocolate, there's no evidence that eating that will cause any problems" while the people who DO have to eat it, are saying "that's Pigshit, I dont want to eat it"

Well suck it up, say the bunch, real men can eat pigshit, we only want men who can eat pigshit.

and then

How come we cant get anybody to eat it? How come the guys we forced to eat it were all sick last year?

It cant have anything to do with the pigshit, it's perfectly organic, and if we had real chocolate, it would melt.

Which would be relevant, if FieldTurf were akin to pig shit. But again, the players concerns as far as I can tell mostly stem from fear of injury, not the quality of play.

So while this analogy seems very, very witty indeed and is nicely phrased indeed, it is also.....drum roll....a bunch of pigshit.

[ExiledRed]

fieldturf is akin to pigshit as far as the players are concerned.

It takes longer to recover from playing on it, players are reluctant to slide across it (and that can be seen every home game), players who make quick turns absolutely despise it and dont play their A game for fear of twisting their ankles. It heats up in the sun and slows down the game because it fatigues the players.

Sports surgeons treating injured players advise against it and insurance companies who pay wages for injured players, put a premium on it.

The players concerns arent being addressed, instead they are being told that they're superstitious or something, by the people who are MAKING OR SAVING MONEY from it's use and dont actually play professional football on field turf.

The proof is in the pudding anyway, too often games at BMO are lacklustre, the CMNT have shunned BMO because of it, we're losing players off the roster to it and encountering difficulty signing playerrs we want because of it.

I think the players would rather play on pigshit actually.

[ExiledRed]

Which would be relevant, if FieldTurf were akin to pig shit. But again, the players concerns as far as I can tell mostly stem from fear of injury, not the quality of play.


Im not sure why you think my analogy relates to quality of play over the fear of injury actually.

But lets go there,

shouldn't professional football players, enjoy playing the game? I dont want players who hate playing.

[Cashcleaner]

I remember Paul saying they're conducting a study whether it's feasible to lay grass on the turf in summer while removing it in the winter for community use.

Sounds like a pretty good compromise, but I don't think the city would be okay with it. The whole reason why we have turf is so the public can use the grounds as often as possible. If we put in a grass pitch over the turf, it'd still get all worn out and trampled over a weeks worth of use.

It seems like people are continuing to forget the fact that the city calls the shots on the turf. Not MLSE. Not the league. Not the club. Not Carver...

[cuecas_red]

[quote=ExiledRed;93173]

How come we cant get anybody to eat it? How come the guys we forced to eat it were all sick last year?

quote]
I thought only 1 or 2 of the injuries were blamed on the field turf not all 8 or 10 of them?

[ExiledRed]

Sounds like a pretty good compromise, but I don't think the city would be okay with it. The whole reason why we have turf is so the public can use the grounds as often as possible. If we put in a grass pitch over the turf, it'd still get all worn out and trampled over a weeks worth of use.

It seems like people are continuing to forget the fact that the city calls the shots on the turf. Not MLSE. Not the league. Not the club. Not Carver...

GROAN, cash.

Everybody knows about the city's requirements. Nobody is forgetting anything! The city sanctioned abuse of the stadium by people who only really need a field and a locker room is part and parcel of the debate.

Nobody thinks it's just a case of MLSE switching it around, and voila...grass.

WE all know that changing the surface is going to require pressure all over the city, so stop trying to make us out as if were unintelligently missing some crucial piece of information.

And also, just because the city calls the shots on the turf, does NOT mean that the turf is here to stay.l

[ExiledRed]

I thought only 1 or 2 of the injuries were blamed on the field turf not all 8 or 10 of them?

Actually only Esky's injury was actually blamed on the field turf, by Esky himself.

Then he was traded the next day.

Nobody is allowed to blame the fieldturf for anything, except the CMNT players who dont work for MLSE, MLS or the city of Toronto.

[ensco]

There is a very tight linkage to the Argos-at-BMO question here.

I'm guessing MLSE is prepared to spend the dough required to make this work for the City (move the bubble, lay down a new fieldturf pitch in the parking lot, or somewhere else, etc). It's now obvious that the franchise value will be impaired by the fieldturf.

But why would MLSE do it, if the Argos could subsequently come in, wreck the aesthetics of the stadium, and chew up a grass field?

We need a positive resolution of this Argo sideshow first (by positive, I mean positive for TFC) before MLSE has any incentive to move forward.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

fieldturf is akin to pigshit as far as the players are concerned.

It takes longer to recover from playing on it, players are reluctant to slide across it (and that can be seen every home game), players who make quick turns absolutely despise it and dont play their A game for fear of twisting their ankles. It heats up in the sun and slows down the game because it fatigues the players.

Sports surgeons treating injured players advise against it and insurance companies who pay wages for injured players, put a premium on it.

The players concerns arent being addressed, instead they are being told that they're superstitious or something, by the people who are MAKING OR SAVING MONEY from it's use and dont actually play professional football on field turf.

The proof is in the pudding anyway, too often games at BMO are lacklustre, the CMNT have shunned BMO because of it, we're losing players off the roster to it and encountering difficulty signing playerrs we want because of it.

I think the players would rather play on pigshit actually.


Honestly, I'm going to go and believe FiFa who has done over $20 million USD worth of research into FieldTurf which is now in its 7th generation!! then you. I have personally researched it myself as well and their are NO i repeat NO!! statistics that say players get injured more often on FieldTurf then they would on regular grass!! all this huffy puffy bullshit about crying little old players who don't want to play on astroturf should start looking at the 7th generation shit!! which some EPL teams practice on for fuck sakes!! I can't wait until the turf enters its 10th generation and gets 5X better then it already is and FiFa fucking mandates it!!

[ensco]

Honestly, I'm going to go and believe FiFa who has done over $20 million USD worth of research into FieldTurf which is now in its 7th generation!! then you. I have personally researched it myself as well and their are NO i repeat NO!! statistics that say players get injured more often on FieldTurf then they would on regular grass!! all this huffy puffy bullshit about crying little old players who don't want to play on astroturf should start looking at the 7th generation shit!! which some EPL teams practice on for fuck sakes!! I can't wait until the turf enters its 10th generation and gets 5X better then it already is and FiFa fucking mandates it!!

You my friend, and I mean no disrespect, you just do not get it.

[andyc]

Perception in this case IS reality.

It doesn't matter what the experts say, if senior players perceive that field turf = bad then the reality is field turf at bmo = bad for TFC.

Good players are leaving or not signing up because of field turf and that puts us at a disadvantage....

[cuecas_red]

Honestly, I'm going to go and believe FiFa who has done over $20 million USD worth of research into FieldTurf which is now in its 7th generation!! then you. I have personally researched it myself as well and their are NO i repeat NO!! statistics that say players get injured more often on FieldTurf then they would on regular grass!! all this huffy puffy bullshit about crying little old players who don't want to play on astroturf should start looking at the 7th generation shit!! which some EPL teams practice on for fuck sakes!! I can't wait until the turf enters its 10th generation and gets 5X better then it already is and FiFa fucking mandates it!!
I think it is more of a mental thing by the players, is why that they don't like. If they can get past it then they would come here but I don't think they will anytime soon.

[Maple Leaf Red]

Perception in this case IS reality.

It doesn't matter what the experts say, if senior players perceive that field turf = bad then the reality is field turf at bmo = bad for TFC.

Good players are leaving or not signing up because of field turf and that puts us at a disadvantage....

And that's the crux of it. The average player is an idiot and supersitious and averse to change. Until there is a generation of players that grow up playing on turf throughout the world (ie in Africa) and the majority of players both train AND play (it's all fine to say that a lot of these idiots train on turf six days a week and play on a grass pitch once a week but the game is the 'real' deal so it's the real surface) on turf then we'll always have these problems.

The City benefits from the best team possible, the most games possible, and the best drawing ability possible so they should work to make a viable alternative to BMO for community use to facilitate it.

Until that date when either idiot politicians see the light or idiot players learn to read we'll keep hearing these stories. Unfortunately, neither group seems likely to ever drop the idiot tag so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[nascarguy]

the mls will never be taken Seriously in Europe in till. The mls makes all team:

- get real grass
- 20,000 to 30,000+ seat SSS
- pay players more
- let teams own there player
- when flying a team to & from oversea fly them in 1st class or business class

that all i can think of right now

[ExiledRed]

Honestly, I'm going to go and believe FiFa who has done over $20 million USD worth of research into FieldTurf which is now in its 7th generation!! then you. I have personally researched it myself as well and their are NO i repeat NO!! statistics that say players get injured more often on FieldTurf then they would on regular grass!! all this huffy puffy bullshit about crying little old players who don't want to play on astroturf should start looking at the 7th generation shit!! which some EPL teams practice on for fuck sakes!! I can't wait until the turf enters its 10th generation and gets 5X better then it already is and FiFa fucking mandates it!!

Just tell me what is false in this statement, so we can proceed from there.




I wrote:

It takes longer to recover from playing on it, players are reluctant to slide across it (and that can be seen every home game), players who make quick turns absolutely despise it and dont play their A game for fear of twisting their ankles. It heats up in the sun and slows down the game because it fatigues the players


The comment about players not playing their A game obviously doesnt apply to all of them, but it does apply to a great MANY good ones, including players we would like to sign realistically.

If everything there is even half true then the question is how detrimental is this to the quality of the football and how much is it hurting the team?

The debate about whether it really is good or bad stuff is irrelevant at this point

[ExiledRed]

Also,

if the 10th generation fieldturf is hard to distinguish from real grass in how it affects the ball, conducts heat, and it also allows for the same yield in quick turning plays as standard surfaces, and the players like it:

then great.

[Smenge]

Interesting article from the UK:

http://www.epltalk.com/wigan-should-consider-a-synthetic-turf-field

[ExiledRed]

Interesting article from the UK:

http://www.epltalk.com/wigan-should-consider-a-synthetic-turf-field

What Wigan needs is it's own facility, if it's going to last in the top flight.

If Wigan gets fieldturf it will just swap one set of problems for another, and it's pitch will continue to be stigmatised.

I'll bet the Rugby players aren't too interested in FT either.

[werewolf]

I'll bet the Rugby players aren't too interested in FT either.

Rug burn!!! ouch.

[Blizzard]

Rug burn!!! ouch.

I saw some high school kids playing rugby on the new artificial surface at Birchmount. I really can't imagine how they would let their kids play rugby on that stuff. Insanity!!!

[Kooper]

Honestly, I'm going to go and believe FiFa who has done over $20 million USD worth of research into FieldTurf which is now in its 7th generation!! then you. I have personally researched it myself as well and their are NO i repeat NO!! statistics that say players get injured more often on FieldTurf then they would on regular grass!! all this huffy puffy bullshit about crying little old players who don't want to play on astroturf should start looking at the 7th generation shit!! which some EPL teams practice on for fuck sakes!! I can't wait until the turf enters its 10th generation and gets 5X better then it already is and FiFa fucking mandates it!!

Nice comment can this be the last one ever uttered about field turf on this board? have we not hashed out the debate long enough. Wait I guess not someone is posting below.

[ExiledRed]

Nice comment can this be the last one ever uttered about field turf on this board? have we not hashed out the debate long enough. Wait I guess not someone is posting below.

Fuck man, if the debate bores you, keep the fuck out of it, we dont want your insubstantial input.

If the issue wasnt topical, in the news every day. and greatly relevant to the future of our team it wouldnt be getting so much debate.

As long as we have it, and it is negatively impacting the team, people are going to mention that...... get over it or go and talk about something else in one of the many, many threads about other things that exist on this board.

[koryo]

the mls will never be taken Seriously in Europe in till. The mls makes all team:

- get real grass
- 20,000 to 30,000+ seat SSS
- pay players more
- let teams own there player
- when flying a team to & from oversea fly them in 1st class or business class

that all i can think of right now

Professionally-trained, competent officiating.

[rocker]

Fuck man, if the debate bores you,

so you enjoy the fieldturf debate? you find it fun?

[ExiledRed]

so you enjoy the fieldturf debate? you find it fun?

you enjoy talking like a broken record on this topic every day?

just wonderin... I defend fieldturf but there's no point any more since guys like you just keep ramblin like a broken record every time this comes up. It's like you really think MLSE cares about your opinion so you keep repeating it.

I guess if you keep ramblin about it eventually you'll yell enough that people will just give up. Nice strategy.

See my earlier post,

We're in a thread that discusses the negative press fieldturf is getting our team. What should I talk about in here, your girlfriend?

Nobody gives a flying fuck about your opinion either, but you keep posting it every day on all kinds of topics, why is that?

[Shakes McQueen]

the mls will never be taken Seriously in Europe in till. The mls makes all team:

- get real grass
- 20,000 to 30,000+ seat SSS
- pay players more
- let teams own there player
- when flying a team to & from oversea fly them in 1st class or business class

that all i can think of right now

Essentially, this league won't be taken seriously in Europe, until it grows. I think everyone understands that.

Good pitch, large stadiums, and higher salaries all come as the sport gains in popularity. It is going to take a while - Europeans grow up immersed in football culture, and thus create higher caliber players, and generate more money from fans.

Your last point is just MLS being cheap, I assume. The whole single-entity thing is another debate altogether.

- Scott

[jloome]

Essentially, this league won't be taken seriously in Europe, until it grows. I think everyone understands that.

Good pitch, large stadiums, and higher salaries all come as the sport gains in popularity. It is going to take a while - Europeans grow up immersed in football culture, and thus create higher caliber players, and generate more money from fans.

Your last point is just MLS being cheap, I assume. The whole single-entity thing is another debate altogether.

- Scott

Actually, larger stadiums won't generally have anything to do with it for quite awhile. People tend to overestimate Euro attendances because of the monster clubs, but at fifth in the world in average attendance (ok, paid tickets, since MLS fudges this) at over 17,000 a game -- while at the same time being likely out of the top 10 in consistency of quality of play -- I can't see a huge change any time soon. A couple more SSS's getting 15,000 plus every game would be nice.

[sully]

the mls will never be taken Seriously in Europe in till. The mls makes all team:

- get real grass
- 20,000 to 30,000+ seat SSS
- pay players more
- let teams own there player
- when flying a team to & from oversea fly them in 1st class or business class

that all i can think of right now

good points...but don't forget that many in Europe don't want to take it seriously not based on the mediocrity of wages, some stadiums..but because they don't want America to succeed...because America is potentially a huge threat to European dominance...and then there's the plain old anti-americanism....

[ExiledRed]

good points...but don't forget that many in Europe don't want to take it seriously not based on the mediocrity of wages, some stadiums..but because they don't want America to succeed...because America is potentially a huge threat to European dominance...and then there's the plain old anti-americanism....

I truly believe that the reason soccer has failed in america for so long is because americans knew they couldnt dominate it from the outset.

Much easier to invent new sports and dominate those.

[Across_The_Pond]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/football-in-wales/2008/07/10/switch-bid-shows-russians-worried-robinson-91466-21314976/

[Broadview]

^^Nice find.

[Across_The_Pond]

^^Nice find.

In my local paper mate. Although for the next 4 weeks my local is going to be The Star! :D

[Dirk Diggler]

See my earlier post,

We're in a thread that discusses the negative press fieldturf is getting our team. What should I talk about in here, your girlfriend?

Nobody gives a flying fuck about your opinion either, but you keep posting it every day on all kinds of topics, why is that?

I agree. The only reason why this topic has been debated a million times on this board is that you see the fieldturf apologist come out and throw all kinds of excuses condemning every player who says anything negative about the field turf. At this point, I don't even care if FIFA paid off a couple of "scientists" to publish a report suggesting that FieldTurf is superior to grass or whatever. Fact of the matter is that no one likes to play on that shit and that is that. As long as you have players complaining about the pitch at BMO Field (i.e the report yesterday about O'Brien being advised against playing on the artificial pitch by his doctor) this topic of discussion will not go away.