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View Full Version : where do you stand on MLS in the global scheme



dutch
02-06-2013, 11:11 PM
Ive been following TFC since day one because they were my home team, when Edu got traded I felt like MLS was a CFLesque bush league where players went because they wernt good enough to make the jump over seas OR if they were happy here and talented, they would one day be plucked from us anyways. these days I feel MLS offers great opportunities for a player with some talent who wants to grow into himself without playing in the 2nd level of some league half way around the world that dosent speak english. a natural home for a north american born player. everyone wants to make it to the big leagues but do you see us ever getting up there or maybe you feel the salary cap will hold us where we are forever. what are your thoughts on the MLS future compared to the rest of the world? personally the one thing I see is a detractor to MLS is the amount of great talent which makes a say 200k salary while players who maybe have similar talents but a better resume (ie european first team experience) are signed to much higher contracts because "thats what a la liga or premier league player deserves/expects.

james
02-07-2013, 01:30 AM
MLS is growing and getting better each year as more teams are getting new stadiums and selling more tickets, supporter groups are growing across MLS and players are getting better as development and trainning is getting better and more players from other countries are also looking to play in North America. However i do not exspect the league to one day be as good as say the leagues in England, Germany, Italy or Spain for example as these leagues have been running for 100+ years and teams are well established and people in these countries trully live and breath soccer in big numbers. In USA and Canada Soccer is not the number 1 sport to watch and i do not think it ever will be as the States are crazy about American Football and Baseball while Canadians love Hockey. I do not think MLS will ever have the billions of dollars that some leagues produce in Europe through TV deals and ticket sales and merchandise sales, but i don't really care. As long as MLS grows to a pretty good level of skill and is entertainin to watch then i am happy.

Oldtimer
02-07-2013, 08:30 AM
It's a feeder league for the 3-4 biggest leagues. Nothing to be ashamed of, most D-1 leagues around the world are feeder leagues, and you see some great football in many of them.

Fort York Redcoat
02-07-2013, 10:06 AM
I'm pretty comfy with MLS chugging along growth wise to compete for its piece of the North American Sports Landscape pie. It's so common to think of how big MLS should be because of the lack of comparison. Every other major sport played in NA is the biggest and best representation in the world. I believe the only way footy would take a big 4-10 spot in the world would be to switch or grow at the expense of one of the 4 major NA sports.

I doubt it'll happen in my lifetime but a slight shift would be fun to see.

mowe
02-07-2013, 10:47 AM
I think MLS is in a great position going forward. Quality of play is getting better every year and as it gains exposure it becomes more attractive to all kinds of players. I truly believe it will be a top 10 league within the next 20 years.

Players are always going to want to come here for a few reasons:
- Allure of living in/traveling around USA
- Financial stability (getting paid on time)
- Stepping stone to top leagues in Europe
- Good fan support in the stadiums

It's never going to be a top league in the world and doesn't have to be. As long as quality of play improves to a certain level - and this will be helped by the academies and the continued influx of foreign talent - it will be respectable on the world stage and domestically.

OgtheDim
02-07-2013, 10:52 AM
Before TFC, my primary supported team was a team in the Northern Premier League, so this is an improvement.

It doesn't really compare to other leagues due to how ownership works, the lack of a pyramid structure and the player combination of DP's, domestic requirements, and cheapo contracts to most players.

Quality wise, it compares to a hybrid of the lower levels of the German Bundesliga, Endevise, Lige Un and the Premier League.

More importantly, the support is local, which puts it on the same level as most of the world for me.

Abou Sky
02-07-2013, 12:07 PM
this leads a bit into a question that I have been thinking about for a while. After seeing Milos Kocik say MLS is a top 10 league I wondered where people here would place it?

How would you rank world leagues in order?

Oldtimer
02-07-2013, 12:52 PM
this leads a bit into a question that I have been thinking about for a while. After seeing Milos Kocik say MLS is a top 10 league I wondered where people here would place it?

How would you rank world leagues in order?

The only objective way is to look at World Club Cup qualification and results.
Results would be used for a coefficient to rate regions in that competition (i.e. UEFA > COMNEBOL or CONCACAF) which would then give extra weight to leagues that do well in the better regions.
By those standards MLS is just behind the Mexican League, which is a pretty decent standard, although not yet top 10.

brad
02-07-2013, 01:05 PM
I think it's on a good path, and the quality of teams we don't support have improved dramatically since the league began.

Defiantly a feeder league, and that is not a bad thing. As more players are making the jump from MLS to the big 4 - it does indeed become more appealing to players as a stepping stone. Living in the US is big appeal for a lot of players.

On a quality perspective it has a way to go. Some teams are putting together some attractive teams but quality has to go deeper than the starting 11. The cap is too tight to allow for any real depth which affects competition for places (which has a direct impact on quality) and obviously is a problem when injuries hit.

I think once we can have good "MLS caliber" players in roster slots 1-22 we are going to go a long way towards closing the gap. Having to carry players not fit to play at this level is a big detriment. So is not being able to sign the US and Canadian players playing at a similar or even lower standard overseas due to inferior wages.

The other issue is the single entity and trade system is flat out foreign to players and that is detrimental to some. Better players are used to being able to call the shots about where they want to go. The idea that you can sign for NY and get shipped of to Columbus without having any say in the matter is a bit crazy to players vs having total control of who you play for.

prizby
02-07-2013, 01:57 PM
this leads a bit into a question that I have been thinking about for a while. After seeing Milos Kocik say MLS is a top 10 league I wondered where people here would place it?

How would you rank world leagues in order?

Brazil
Argentina
Mexico
Spain
Italy
Germany
France
England
Netherlands
Russia
Turkey
Portugal? (at least the top 3-4 teams)
Ukraine? (at least the top 2-3 teams)
Greece? (at least the top 2-3 teams)
Belgium?
Japan?
South Korea?

somewhere in the 10-20 range right now

Morlesio14
02-07-2013, 05:28 PM
Brazil
Argentina
Mexico
Spain
Italy
Germany
France
England
Netherlands
Russia
Turkey
Portugal? (at least the top 3-4 teams)
Ukraine? (at least the top 2-3 teams)
Greece? (at least the top 2-3 teams)
Belgium?
Japan?
South Korea?

somewhere in the 10-20 range right now

Thats in order? Liga do Brasil is better than the Bundesliga?

prizby
02-07-2013, 08:15 PM
Thats in order? Liga do Brasil is better than the Bundesliga?

never said it was in order, just listed leagues (started in south america) that were better than MLS

Morlesio14
02-07-2013, 08:38 PM
never said it was in order, just listed leagues (started in south america) that were better than MLS

Oh, ok. I agree with the list otherwise

Alonso
02-08-2013, 08:43 AM
never said it was in order, just listed leagues (started in south america) that were better than MLS


Yeah but you replied with "quotes" to a post that asked for it in order.

So you kind of implied that your list was in order.



In any case, my opinion on the matter is this: Money talks and bullshit walks.

As long as the USA is the largest economy in the world (it even beats most of Europe combined) it can have the best leagues in the world.

If soccer captures the imagination of the american public then MLS will be one of the best leagues in the world with out a doubt in my mind.

All MLS needs is stability (check), and growth (check), and time (check).

2020 is not a bad goal but I'm looking at 2030.

Oldtimer
02-08-2013, 09:02 AM
I am wondering at what point is the salary cap high enough to be a top 10 (excluding the top 3-5) league? 6 million? 10 million? 20 million?

prizby
02-10-2013, 11:05 AM
Yeah but you replied with "quotes" to a post that asked for it in order.

So you kind of implied that your list was in order.



like you said, i replied with quotes, implying i'm answering the question

first question:


MLS is a top 10 league I wondered where people here would place it?

start listing leagues ahead of it...never read the rest of part

prizby
02-10-2013, 11:06 AM
I am wondering at what point is the salary cap high enough to be a top 10 (excluding the top 3-5) league? 6 million? 10 million? 20 million?

I think you need to look at it in terms of overall league salary; because in every other league its disproportionate

james
02-17-2013, 06:27 PM
Brazil
Argentina
Mexico
Spain
Italy
Germany
France
England
Netherlands
Russia
Turkey
Portugal? (at least the top 3-4 teams)
Ukraine? (at least the top 2-3 teams)
Greece? (at least the top 2-3 teams)
Belgium?
Japan?
South Korea?

somewhere in the 10-20 range right now

I would say quality of MLS is more like the 3rd division in England, 3rd Division in Germany, 2nd division in Italy, 2nd division in Spain and 2nd division in France. Then some other leagues are more hard to compare. You get leagues like in Portugal, Greece, Turkey, Switzerland, Belgium, Scotland and so on. Leagues like this i do not think MLS clubs are as good as the top few clubs in these leagues but these leagues have big gaps between the top clubs and the bottom clubs in the 1st divisions. I often think MLS clubs can be better then some smaller teams in these 1st divion leagues which makes it hard to rank the quality with such big differences in skill from 1 team tothe next. Where as MLS any team can win the league any year so the skill difference is such tight race for the top as there is no real strong team but no real weak teams either. (besides TFC being the weakest)

Huyton
02-17-2013, 09:53 PM
I think it would be an interesting question to ask of Payne: How does MLS plan to transition itself to compete with the best leagues on the planet? Because I'd be very surprised if there is not a blueprint or a long term goal.

How should they do it?

Every couple of years add another designated player?

Unlimited Designated Players as long as they play for either Canada or USA!USA!USA!?

Canary_canuck
02-24-2013, 05:19 PM
I put MLS somewhere between Championship and League One in the UK. Having closely followed a team that has been in both these divisions in the last 4 years I am reasonably confident in saying this. That said all leagues have a huge range of talent playing in them and the lesser leagues will always be vulnerable to their best players being poached. The outlook for professional soccer in North America is good for reasons enunciated above which I find credible. My favourite UK team ( Norwich City ) just took a player ( Kei Kamara ) on loan from Kansas City and in one half of play he has become a cult hero and fan favourite for his attitude and skills. He scored a terrific goal against Everton so I am sure the loan will be made permanent. The UK press ( never shy about rubbishing North American soccer ) have also been very complimentary.

PAOK17
02-24-2013, 05:51 PM
The only objective way is to look at World Club Cup qualification and results.
Results would be used for a coefficient to rate regions in that competition (i.e. UEFA > COMNEBOL or CONCACAF) which would then give extra weight to leagues that do well in the better regions.
By those standards MLS is just behind the Mexican League, which is a pretty decent standard, although not yet top 10.

Sorry but you have just reminded me of one of the biggest pet peeves I have with CONCACAF so queue rant.

The best we can do, is rank within our region-it's what UEFA does. The way UEFA determines how many teams from each country can play in both the CL and Europa League is based on their league rankings (ie England and Spain have 4 teams in CL whereas Greece has 2). They use the ranking to determine everything from how many teams go directly to the group stage, and how many have to go through the preliminary rounds. These rankings are done through coefficient points which I believe is the sum of all recent (not sure how many years back) co-efiecients of all teams within each country. Those coefficients are determined based on individual team performances in continental play. I think each team gets a certain number points for each win and draw. So every team in UEFA technically has a coefficient-even fourth division English teams that have never played in Europe. Those would just be 0 of course. Anyway each of these team co-eficients are used to also determine the seeding of teams. It's precisely why Man City, the winner of last year's premiership, had such a tough group this year in CL. It's because they haven't been playing enough European football to gather points so that they can have a better seed.

I know this is a long explanation but it's precisely what I think CONCACAF has to do instead of these arbitrary team allocations and seedings for the CCL. Sure Mexico should have 4 teams and perhaps the US, too. However, these teams should not be automatically seeded based on an arbitrary system. TFC, as bad as we have been in MLS, has performed pretty well in CCL. By now, as a team, it should have earned a lot of co-efficient points. In theory, TFC could win the MLS Cup this year over say Portland. Portland, a team that with the UEFA ranking system would have 0 points, but in CONCACAF would be automatically seeded ahead of TFC. I don't know how every other Member Association allows for that. Then again, we are talking about a region that plays every continental tournament in the same country when there are at least two others who can host it.