Eric Hassli traded to FC Dallas?

[Damien]

@FCDallas NEWS: #FCDallas (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FCDallas&src=hash) is in talks with Toronto FC and close to finalizing a deal to bring Eric Hassli to Dallas.

https://twitter.com/FCDallas/status/297474690644070400

[gdg_9]

FC Dallas official twitter says deal for Hassli close to being finalized.

No word yet on the return.

[Damien]

i just beat you! :))

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

good.....i'll gurantee the next deal will be us using our option to buy one player out!.......Frings or DK.....?

[Corpand]

Fantastic news, just in time

[Auzzy]

Ha, Dallas again. I wonder if TFC will be paying for Hassli's salary above the cap. And I wonder how MLS will judge this trade, in terms of salary cap, DP spots used, etc.

[Damien]

We could offer Frings and Koevermans to start fresh.

Dallas: TFC's DP Toilet.

[Richard]

So we have the Weedman and Braun as strikers? Another signing or trade is imminent.

[Greatest Ripoff]

So we have the Weedman and Braun as strikers? Another signing or trade is imminent.


And a few strikers were drafted, Welshmen and Bennett.

[Richard]

And a few strikers were drafted, Welshmen and Bennett.

We have no proven MSL strikers. I cant see us going into the season with a bunch of bench players, two are prospects while the other two mediocre

[jazzy]

please please...ah and Ms.Hassli enjoy Dallas the hub of the shopping world....lol...loads of french there

thank you Mr. Payne , doing so much with nothing

[Stress]

Makes the Honduran striker signing seem more likely

[Nuvinho]

$335K = 2 serviceable players

[flatpicker]

Fun times in TFC land.
If anything, it's nice to have lot's to discuss and speculate about.

[[NBF]]

I think this trade indicates the direction the team is taking for next season. Its basically shaping to be something like a 4-4-1-1 with Koevermans as the Target Man and the 5 midfilders compensating for his slow ass.

---------------------------Frei--------------------------
--------------------------Bendik------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Eckersley--------Califf-------------O'Dea---------Morgan
------------Agbossoumonde-------Henry-----------Emory
--------------------------------------------------------
Lambe-----------Frings------------Cesar----------Bekker
Hall-------------Stinson----------Dunfield---------------
--------------------------Silva-------------------------
------------------------Amarikwa-----------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------Koevermans----------------------
--------------------------Braun-------------------------


* Welshman-?
**Wiedeman-?

[mowe]

FANTASTIC news. I can guarantee a Young DP is on the way.

[ensco]

Holy rush to judgment.

Hassli is a pretty good player that was hurt and never had enough time to show us what he could do.

We'll know what to think midsummer. Let's see what we get, what happens with Koevs, and what Payne does with the cap space, international slot and DP slot.

Certainly it's interesting.

[OgtheDim]

Hassli was hurt when he came; it was a bad trade, done for..well :noidea: .

A poor fit moving forward.

Best to move on; and we better get something.

[nfitz]

Let's see what we get, what happens with Koevs, and what Payne does with the cap space, international slot and DP slot.

Certainly it's interesting.Very interesting.

Now that DeRo is a DP (at least I think that's what I read in 160 characters or less) ... and given Payne's relationship with DeRo ... I think there's only one answer here.

Do we want someone who wants to win, or do we want another European heading off to retirement?

[Oldtimer]

It would be interesting to get DeRo back, but I expect someone younger.

[bigredone]

What about a Dallas strike? Blas or Castillo? DP slot is still there too I think!

[Shakes McQueen]

Very interesting.

Now that DeRo is a DP (at least I think that's what I read in 160 characters or less) ... and given Payne's relationship with DeRo ... I think there's only one answer here.

Do we want someone who wants to win, or do we want another European heading off to retirement?

Another European heading off to retirement?

1) DeRo isn't exactly a spring chicken either.

2) Koevermans and Frings both play hard for us, not like guys "heading off to retirement". Saying this about Koevermans is particularly insulting - a guy whose results are hard to argue with.

- Scott

[billyfly]

DeRo back here would be funny.

[nfitz]

Another European heading off to retirement?

1) DeRo isn't exactly a spring chicken either.

2) Koevermans and Frings both play hard for us, not like guys "heading off to retirement". Saying this about Koevermans is particularly insulting - a guy whose results are hard to argue with.
It would be insulting saying this about Koevermans. But I was thinking of Mista, Robert, and their ilk.

DeRo is no spring chicken, but we no he'll play his heart out. One in the bag, is worth two in the bush.

[MarkEightThree]

Good riddance to Hassli, he was always a Whitecap at heart and never belonged in a red jersey.

[DangerRed]

OMG please be true. Ship him. Please.

[Shakes McQueen]

It would be insulting saying this about Koevermans. But I was thinking of Mista, Robert, and their ilk.

DeRo is no spring chicken, but we no he'll play his heart out. One in the bag, is worth two in the bush.

Except Mista, Robert, and their "ilk" aren't who we are talking about here. And it's "a bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush" -- and DeRo isn't "in our hand" (or our bag) in any way whatsoever. Koevermans and Frings are, because they are the ones under contract to us.

This is all beside the point of whether DeRo actually makes sense for our team right now - but saying we should bring him back because of a mushy intangible like whether he will "play his heart out", is kind of poor thinking. Particularly when you were quick to admit that our current two "European retirees" are also playing their hearts out for us.

I want to win soccer games - whatever that team looks like.

- Scott

[nfitz]

Except Mista, Robert, and their "ilk" aren't who we are talking about here.Oh! I haven't been paying much attention of late, and must have missed the rumours. Who's coming in then?

[Stryker]

If Payne unloads Hassli and buys out Frings he could have the resources to get a couple good wingers, a solid mid and a starting striker.
If everything panned out he may have performed a miracle and turned us into a wild card contender in one off season.

[Damien]

I like that Payne recognizes this team has had and still has it's share of overpaid primadonna's.
It's time to start balancing our lineup, finding some good deals and not putting all of our eggs in 1 basket.

[TFC07]

What is TFC getting in return?

[bones]

What is TFC getting in return?

Probably to pay for most of his salary.

In all seriousness, please see if you can swing multi team deal to snag Cooper to fill our striking void. Getting someone who's proven, and stays healthy is worth his salary.

[Couchy81]

If it was Hassli for Dero swap I'd be fine with that.

[Cashcleaner]

It would be insulting saying this about Koevermans. But I was thinking of Mista, Robert, and their ilk.

DeRo is no spring chicken, but we no he'll play his heart out. One in the bag, is worth two in the bush.

We missed the boat with DeRo, I think. It sucks, trust me, and I wish it wasn't true. When Payne's position with the team was confirmed I thought quite a bit about the possibility of DeRo coming back. But after thinking about it some more, I'm not so keen on the idea. After all, the guy is pushing 35 and seems really happy in DC. Would it really make sense to go after him again?

I will always contend that losing him severely crippled this team, but I don't think he would be nearly as effective for us now as he was a few years back.

[nfitz]

We missed the boat with DeRo, I think. It sucks, trust me, and I wish it wasn't true. When Payne's position with the team was confirmed I thought quite a bit about the possibility of DeRo coming back. But after thinking about it some more, I'm not so keen on the idea. After all, the guy is pushing 35 and seems really happy in DC. Would it really make sense to go after him again? We probably have, and the only reason I'm suggesting it is because of Payne. Yes, he's 34, but watching him play on Saturday, he had more spark than the players nearly half his age. Certainly 34 is starting to push it ... on the other hand, he's 4 and half years younger than Ryan Giggs. Watching him play, I wonder if he's going to be one of the rare ones that has 2 to 3 years left in him.

[Cashcleaner]

^ That's a fair point about Giggs, and for sure it's not like DeRo needs a walker to get around or anything. It certainly would be interesting to see if he would even want to come back to TFC, I'll say that much.

[CBTFC]

Sort of a bittersweet feeling for me on this one. On one hand, I was looking forward to seeing what he could do for us in a full, healthy season. Especially with the possibility of him pairing up with Koef mid-season.

On the other hand, I understand the importance of this freeing up cap space (allocation), the DP spot, and the Int'l player spot.

Wish him all the best.

p.s. I wonder if his wife is acting as mediator on the deal ;)

[Sweeper]

So are we getting our first round draft pick back?

[ManUtd4ever]

I was initially hoping that Hassli would have the opportunity to prove himself over the course of an entire season, but the writing was on the wall once his wife, I mean, he requested a trade. I don't want anyone on our club who doesn't want to represent our badge.

An available DP slot would create new possibilities for Payne in the immediate future and would allow him to put a firm stamp on this club in a remarkably short period of time.

[ag futbol]

I doubt we will be getting much of anything back out of this, other than cap space. I wouldn't be surprised if we gave up a partial allocation as a part of this deal as well.

They'll probably use part of the Shea money to pay down his cap hit, which makes it easier for them to deal with us, but looking at it on face value: Hassli is overpaid and probably has limited value to the league at large. This move just provides us with flexibility.

[Gazza]

I know he tore up his knee, but talk of buying out Koevermans really grinds my gears. Koevermans is really the only player who did his job last year and visibly showed he cared about how much we sucked.

He's at least earned a chance to at least show he's fit enough to keep his career going and help this team to the playoffs.

[ensco]

I know he tore up his knee, but talk of buying out Koevermans really grinds my gears. Koevermans is really the only player who did his job last year and visibly showed he cared about how much we sucked.

He's at least earned a chance to at least show he's fit enough to keep his career going and help this team to the playoffs.

I agree. Frings is the guy that should be bought out. His legs are totally gone. I'm not sure he isn't a sub, and you can get those for 75K.

[Ajax TFC]

I agree. Frings is the guy that should be bought out. His legs are totally gone. I'm not sure he isn't a sub, and you can get those for 75K.
definitely. I really like Frings, but for his cap hit we can bring in a much more mobile DM who might not read the game as well but can be more effective, and have cap space to spare.

[Whoop]

I don't think they're bringing in another DP. They're just blowing up the team to create cap space to sign more non-DP depth that the team lacks.

I'm not expecting any big names much less any older players.

[trane]

I will say this playing a 4-4-1-1 with the Kovermans as the CF, and De Ro as the SS/AM will get good results, and would lead us to the play offs, especialy with the two DMs we now have protecting the back line. The key is to understaind that the De Ro and Danny K are not going to be around long, and therefore to develop to younger players at the two roles to take over.


A 4-4-1-1 is the type of system we should have started playin in year one, and developed from there.

[Abou Sky]

I will say this playing a 4-4-1-1 with the Kovermans as the CF, and De Ro as the SS/AM will get good results, and would lead us to the play offs, especialy with the two DMs we now have protecting the back line. The key is to understaind that the De Ro and Danny K are not going to be around long, and therefore to develop to younger players at the two roles to take over.


A 4-4-1-1 is the type of system we should have started playin in year one, and developed from there.

As I understand, KP doesn't care about playoffs or this season in general so bringing in DeRo, who has max 2-3 years in him is not something I see him doing.

[razor787]

An available DP slot would create new possibilities for Payne in the immediate future and would allow him to put a firm stamp on this club in a remarkably short period of time.

Once Hassli goes, we will be down to only two DP's for the season. We won't get another one until we either rid of koev/frings or their contracts expire.

The cap space is important and I hope we aren't taking a piece of the cap hit. If we lose Hassli, yet still retain a portion of his cap, then Payne I will have again lied directly to the fans. We need strikers right now. If Hassli is leaving, he can go to Dallas and take his full cap hit with him. If not, he stays here, and commits to the contract he signed just a couple months ago. Payne better not cave to Hassli's unprofessionalism.

[jloome]

As I understand, KP doesn't care about playoffs or this season in general so bringing in DeRo, who has max 2-3 years in him is not something I see him doing.

That's diametrically opposed to what he said on the Soccer Show on Thursday night, when he said being "in the mix" to make the playoffs late in the season was this season's goal. He obviously expects competency, at least, this year.

[ag futbol]

Once Hassli goes, we will be down to only two DP's for the season. We won't get another one until we either rid of koev/frings or their contracts expire.

The cap space is important and I hope we aren't taking a piece of the cap hit. If we lose Hassli, yet still retain a portion of his cap, then Payne I will have again lied directly to the fans. We need strikers right now. If Hassli is leaving, he can go to Dallas and take his full cap hit with him. If not, he stays here, and commits to the contract he signed just a couple months ago. Payne better not cave to Hassli's unprofessionalism.
I don't know what is being said behind closed doors but I wouldn't necessarily boil it down to being unprofessional. He may well have signed that contract thinking he was coming back to play for Paul Mariner. Being stuck in that situation would upset a lot of people. Now that being said, if he wants to play that card then he should be prepared to void his contract without any payout. Can't have your cake and eat it too. He did sign a deal with a league where he knew he could be traded and he agreed to a team option.

I agree, we'd be short of strikers, but I'd caution against the idea we need anything now. The only thing that really has immediacy is this club changing the culture around, short term player moves and other things will eventually be fixed, even if it takes us a year to get there. Which isn't that bad when you look at how messed up teams in other professional sports are. If the leafs or raps wanted to change directions is might take multiple seasons to get rid of albatross contracts and clear out the cobwebs.

[nfitz]

As I understand, KP doesn't care about playoffs or this season in general so bringing in DeRo, who has max 2-3 years in him is not something I see him doing.That's a very good point. Sadly ...

Really all we can hope for this season is not to be dead last ... sigh.

[Ajax TFC]

I wonder what we could get from Dallas for him? I imagine that if we paid the over the cap part of his salary, they might actually be willing to give us something useful, unlike the last time we traded them a DP...

[Abou Sky]

I wonder what we could get from Dallas for him? I imagine that if we paid the over the cap part of his salary, they might actually be willing to give us something useful, unlike the last time we traded them a DP...

Allocation? International spot?

[tfc2008]

Sports / Soccer
Toronto FC appears close to dealing Eric Hassli to Dallas
FC Dallas used its official Twitter feed Friday to say it is in talks with Toronto FC “and close to finalizing a deal to bring Eric Hassli to Dallas.”
Text size:IncreaseDecreaseResetShare via EmailPrintReport an Error
Save to Mystar


CHRIS YOUNG / THE CANADIAN PRESS
Reports say Toronto FC is close to a deal that will send Eric Hassli, right, to FC Dallas.


By: Neil Davidson The Canadian Press, Published on Fri Feb 01 2013
EXPLORE THIS STORY
1 PHOTOS
Save to Mystar





Toronto FC striker Eric Hassli appears en route to Dallas.
FC Dallas used its official Twitter feed Friday to say it is in talks with Toronto FC “and close to finalizing a deal to bring Eric Hassli to Dallas.”
Toronto FC declined comment on the tweet.
But the move makes sense for several reasons.
Dallas lost 22-year-old attacking midfielder Brek Shea to English Premier League side Stoke City this week for a reported $3.9 million (U.S.).
And Toronto FC has talked about ways to ease a salary cap crunch that sees Hassli and fellow designated players Torsten Frings and Danny Koevermans, along with defenders Darren O’Dea and Richard Eckersley, accounting for a large chunk of its salary cap.
“It’s hard to have the percentage of your cap tied up in five players that we had and still put an effective team on the field,” Toronto president and GM Kevin Payne told reporters Thursday.
Payne said buying out a player contract was one possibility to ease the salary cap pressures.
Hassli made $790,000 last season, of which $350,000 counted against the salary cap by virtue of his designated player status.
The 31-year-old Frenchman joined Toronto from Vancouver last July after Koevermans tore up his knee. But injuries restricted the tattooed striker to just seven games in Toronto.
He ended the season with three goals for Toronto and two for Vancouver, for whom he saw action in 18 games. Hassli scored 10 goals in 26 games for Vancouver in 2011, his first in MLS.
Hassli’s contract was renewed by Paul Mariner in November, just days before the former England international was fired as Toronto’s coach and director of player development.
Hassli, who was a Mariner fan, reportedly wanted out of Toronto after the coaching change. But Hassli disputed that when he reported to camp and Payne, who was hired after the new Hassli contract was sealed, said Thursday the Frenchman was not making waves.
“He’s been a good soldier since he’s been here this week and he’s working hard,” Payne said. “We all know he’s got quality when he’s healthy. So the jury’s out on Eric, too.”
Should Toronto secure the league approval needed to move Hassli, a buyout of another big-ticket player could still happen.
The 36-year-old Frings is coming back from hip surgery. Payne has said the former German World Cup veteran is fit and wants to end his career on a high, rather than the injury-plagued slide that was Toronto FC’s 2012 season.

[Stress]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/02/03/fc-dallas-hoping-mooted-hassli-trade-comes-fruition

seems like they are just waiting for approval on the trade.

[scooter]

We probably have, and the only reason I'm suggesting it is because of Payne. Yes, he's 34, but watching him play on Saturday, he had more spark than the players nearly half his age. Certainly 34 is starting to push it ... on the other hand, he's 4 and half years younger than Ryan Giggs. Watching him play, I wonder if he's going to be one of the rare ones that has 2 to 3 years left in him.

yes do lets go after ryan giggs

[sashavukelich]

Giggs will always be a 1 club player, He's work too hard and too long to ruin that now. NO CHANCE he moves.

Let's get Hassli moved so we can free up space and make those signings! I'm jazzed to see some new blood and new attitude in this team :) Really happy to see some of the older/past players making the transition well under Nelly.

[Marc"2L"]

Ok, two things
1)LOL

as recent Brazilian signing Pipico has already been sent home after coming into preseason camp out of shape
The league as a whole has to do better with this, I mean ours was just needing a talking to apparently, no matter how stern, this was their goal scorer showing up so out of shape they sent his ass home.
2)LOL

yes do lets go after ryan giggs

I'm itching for a signing as much as the next guy but come on, really? When KP said we didn't want 32 year olds, I'm pretty sure that rules out the 40 year olds come MLS cup weekend.

[jazzy]

I know he tore up his knee, but talk of buying out Koevermans really grinds my gears. Koevermans is really the only player who did his job last year and visibly showed he cared about how much we sucked.

He's at least earned a chance to at least show he's fit enough to keep his career going and help this team to the playoffs.

truth!!! it would be so unclassy?, as soon as he's injured to dump someone so dedicated. who would want to come here.

[West220Side]

Would be nice to get George John in return for Hassli wonder if they'll take his salary or most of it, or if we'll be paying it but they certainly have no midfield depth in order to get that sort of player of them we need. But we still could always use another defender. George John could fit in nicely, they have something like 10 or 12 defenders, so who knows!

[brad]

This is probably a cap dump, no more, no less. I wouldn't expect anything major in return.

[SirBobSaget]

This is probably a cap dump, no more, no less. I wouldn't expect anything major in return.

I just hope don't have to offer anything extra (draft pick, allocation) for the favor of taking Hassli off our hands.

Terrible initial trade and terrible re-signing.

[Jpexxx]

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) Toronto FC just announced they've acquired a conditional 2nd round pick in 2014 draft from FC Dallas in exchange for Eric Hassli. #TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash)

[kuku]

Finally:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN CONFIRMED: #TFC (http://redpatchboys.ca/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) has traded Eric Hassli to #FCDALLAS (http://redpatchboys.ca/search?q=%23FCDALLAS&src=hash)

[Batman]

confirmation

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2013/02/hassli-traded-pick

[Jpexxx]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2013/02/hassli-traded-pick

Here is the official statement.


Toronto FC announced Monday the club acquired a conditional second round pick in the 2014 MLS SuperDraft from FC Dallas in exchange for Designated Player and Forward Eric Hassli.
“Eric requested a move for family related reasons and we committed to him we would make every effort to do so, providing the deal was favourable for the team," said Toronto FC President and General Manager Kevin Payne. "We are satisfied with the terms of the trade. If Eric has a productive year for Dallas the consideration paid to us will be greater."

Payne added "The most important aspect of this deal is creating salary cap room and a designated player spot. We'd like to thank Eric for his contributions to our club and wish him all the best with his new team."
Hassli, 31, was acquired from the Vancouver Whitecaps FC on July 20, 2012 and made eight appearances, scoring three goals and adding two assists in all competitions for Toronto FC.

[SirBobSaget]

Wonder if Payne said the traditional TFC GM last parting words to Hassli "I'm going to send you to burn in the heat".

[Relja]

Seems to me like we got nothing for him....

[jloome]

Wonder if Payne said the traditional TFC GM last parting words to Hassli "I'm going to send you to burn in the heat".

Think if I bumped into that class act on a beach in Bermuda and kicked him really hard in the fucking shins they'd do me for assault?

[ManUtd4ever]

At least it appears as though Dallas is on the hook for his entire cap hit, if not his entire salary as well.

The conditional 2nd round pick aside, an available DP slot and 335k of additional cap space can be very significant over the next few weeks.

[jloome]

Seems to me like we got nothing for him....

Conditional in this case means we get a first-rounder if he hits certain targets for Dallas, likely.

So we got something. It's probably a certain number of goals, appearances or both.

[PopePouri]

Seems to me like we got nothing for him....

I'm surprised we got that much. I thought we'd get a bag of balls and/or eat a bunch of his salary.

[mowe]

We got a ton of cap space and a DP slot. Two things that we can put to much better use now. Great trade.

[ManUtd4ever]

Conditional in this case means we get a first-rounder if he hits certain targets for Dallas, likely.

So we got something. It's probably a certain number of goals, appearances or both.

Even better.

[Gazza]

Is it full cap relief or are we on the hook for some of his salary?

[OgtheDim]

I'm vaguely disappointed we didn't get Al Location in return. He certainly is a popular fellar around these parts.

[Chinatownchef]

Finally:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUNCONFIRMED: #TFC (http://redpatchboys.ca/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) has traded Eric Hassli to #FCDALLAS (http://redpatchboys.ca/search?q=%23FCDALLAS&src=hash)

Okay, when Kevin Payne was talking about players being in poor fitness, I wonder if he was referring to Eric Hassli. If that's the case he would have been an out of shape overweight DP that may have not made the starting XI. Anyways, the trade should read DP slot or $335,000 in cap space + a conditional 2nd round draft pick for Eric Hassli. If you think about the trade in that light, it was a really good deal.

[billyfly]

His family request....

He's French. Dallas is further away than Toronto. Is it the weather?

[ryan]

Okay, when Kevin Payne was talking about players being in poor fitness, I wonder if he was referring to Eric Hassli. If that's the case he would have been an out of shape overweight DP that may have not made the starting XI. Anyways, the trade should read DP slot or $335,000 in cap space + a conditional 2nd round draft pick for Eric Hassli. If you think about the trade in that light, it was a really good deal.

Can't ignore the 1st rounder we lost in the beginning. Fucking clown shorts man.

[Jpexxx]

His family request....

He's French. Dallas is further away than Toronto. Is it the weather?

It's so his wife can ride horses.

[SirBobSaget]

It's so his wife can ride horses.

She is American from LV, Nevada

[billyfly]

Ok thanks for explanation.

[Whoop]

He wanted to move to the States because his wife is from the States, Vegas I believe. Owns a ranch or rides horses or something like that.

[billyfly]

Which makes the re-signing so freakin' weird.

[Technorgasm]

We got a ton of cap space and a DP slot. Two things that we can put to much better use now. Great trade.


Will we be making use of this space and roster spot (DP) for THIS season?

[TFC07]

So why did TFC pick up option when Hassli wanted to go back to the states? Makes no sense!

[SirBobSaget]

So why did TFC pick up option when Hassli wanted to go back to the states? Makes no sense!

Mariner, enough said

[SirBobSaget]

Will we be making use of this space and roster spot (DP) for THIS season?

Hopefully use the slot for a Young DP, they only count 150k against the cap and do not have to pay the 250k for 3rd DP slot.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Can't ignore the 1st rounder we lost in the beginning. Fucking clown shorts man.

We would've had even MORE allocation right now!

[TFC_Allez]

Glad he's gone at the price we would've been forced to pay because of our foolish former ass hat, shorts wearing manager (I use that term loosely).

At a DP salary and cap hit, he most certainly wasn't worth it again. Too many injuries, inconsistency, and a poor on pitch attitude. Hopefully Payne uses the DP slot on a young DP like he's mentioned a few times. This could be very interesting...

[Joe Kool]

So why did TFC pick up option when Hassli wanted to go back to the states? Makes no sense!

My guess is that Mariner and Hassli were buds (look at the way Mariner stood up for every little thing in interviews about Hassli) and Mariner told Hassli we have to sign you now because Payne is about to show up and deny you an extension. He signed to make sure he had a contract to play for and that MLS had to put him somewhere. Then he probably started lobbying to leave now that his MLS contract had another year. Just my guess but I bet it is pretty accurate.

[Ultra & Proud]

So why did TFC pick up option when Hassli wanted to go back to the states? Makes no sense!

Because Payne wasn't consulted on it and it actually turned out to be the right move as now we at least have a conditional draft pick rather than not resigning him and letting him walk for nothing.

Maybe he can actually play this year and nab a few goals so that the pick becomes a first rounder and then it'll be like the whole thing never happened.

[SirBobSaget]

My guess is that Mariner and Hassli were buds (look at the way Mariner stood up for every little thing in interviews about Hassli) and Mariner told Hassli we have to sign you now because Payne is about to show up and deny you an extension. He signed to make sure he had a contract to play for and that MLS had to put him somewhere. Then he probably started lobbying to leave now that his MLS contract had another year. Just my guess but I bet it is pretty accurate.

This is what I imagine also. No other team in the world would pay him that kind of money. I'm sure we wil find out some weeks from now that TFC is on the hook for paying some of the salary. Dallas will take the full cap hit but TFC will have to contribute to the ridiculous wage.

Remember we only found out about De Guzman's wages situation weeks after that trade.

TFC does save itself 250k just from clearing the 3rd DP splot. So sending 250k Dallas' way ends up being a net zero.

[Technorgasm]

Hopefully use the slot for a Young DP, they only count 150k against the cap and do not have to pay the 250k for 3rd DP slot.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/shaggz235/theresachance.jpg

Let the WILD speculation BEGIN!!!

[Ultra & Proud]

Let the WILD speculation BEGIN!!!

I still think that young DP spot will end up being Alex Lopez. Peralta and Quioto may still come along but neither IMO is of DP quality. I wouldn't be shocked if these are the 3 attacking players Payne frequently references as being possible singings.

Having these two midfield teamates joining up here would help fix our presently thin midfield. Not sure about Quioto or what he can offer but at least he's a forward.

[ManUtd4ever]

Because Payne wasn't consulted on it and it actually turned out to be the right move as now we at least have a conditional draft pick rather than not resigning him and letting him walk for nothing.

Maybe he can actually play this year and nab a few goals so that the pick becomes a first rounder and then it'll be like the whole thing never happened.

Yeah, that's a good take on the situation.

[prizby]

Hopefully use the slot for a Young DP, they only count 150k against the cap and do not have to pay the 250k for 3rd DP slot.

as far as i understood it, the 250k was a one time payment the first time you hit 3 dps

[Auzzy]

From Twitter:


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro
Just spoke to Payne. He said #TFC is paying “a very small portion” of Hassli’s salary for 2013 as part of trade. Declined to say amount.


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro
Payne also said 2nd round pick is MINIMUM #TFC gets. Depending on metrics they could improve that pick - NOT allocation or players.

Not the worst thing to make out of a bad situation. The worst part of the deal was bringing Hassli here in the first place: trading for an somewhat injured DP, 1/2 year before he would have been available for free (everyone knew Vancouver wanted to get rid of him); and at a point in the season when things were already hopeless. You have a DP slot & the money available, you should be able to find a better DP player somewhere in the world, in the middle of the summer transfer window, and w/o having to trade. Or just sign one or two mid-talent MLS types, and keep the DP slot for later, when you can find someone w/o panicking.

Not sure if the re-signing in the fall made things better or worse. May have been a personal favour to Hassli as mentioned. Since TFC had a club option, they still could have traded for his rights w/o signing him. Or let him go, and they would have known they have the $ & the DP slot a couple of months earlier, making it easier to find a replacement. On the other hand, this way Payne was able to put his stamp on it.

EDIT: Good work John! Saved us days of speculation & angry discussion. I.e., making the off-season even more boring. :D

[brad]

as far as i understood it, the 250k was a one time payment the first time you hit 3 dps

Correct - from the official roster rules:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules


Each club has two Designated Player slots and clubs are allowed to “purchase” a third Designated Player slot for a one-time fee of $250,000 that will be dispersed in the form of allocation money to all clubs that do not have three Designated Players. Clubs will not have to buy the third DP roster slot to accommodate Designated Players 23 years old and younger.

[brad]

This is what I imagine also. No other team in the world would pay him that kind of money. I'm sure we wil find out some weeks from now that TFC is on the hook for paying some of the salary. Dallas will take the full cap hit but TFC will have to contribute to the ridiculous wage.

Any money over the 350k cap hit does not matter to us one bit. The 350k of cap space and the DP slot are what matter.


TFC does save itself 250k just from clearing the 3rd DP splot. So sending 250k Dallas' way ends up being a net zero. If you mean the $250k for the third DP slot, that's a one time payment the first year you get a 3rd DP. See the quote I posted above from the official roster regulations.

[Ajax TFC]

What does "conditional 2nd round pick" mean? Does that mean we get a 2nd round pick if the condition isn't met, and something more if it is met? or does it mean that we get a 2nd round pick if the condition is met and less or nothing if it isn't?

I would hope that the cap space would be used in the following manner:
~150k on a striker
~100k on a winger
~100k on a DM
Of course we still have allocation money to spend, and I'd like to see Frings (as much as I like the guy, and we can't bring in a player of his ability, we can bring in a player who has more of an effect) bought out to bring in another DM (Peralta?), and 150-200k on a young DP attacking mid

[brad]

I still think that young DP spot will end up being Alex Lopez. Peralta and Quioto may still come along but neither IMO is of DP quality. I wouldn't be shocked if these are the 3 attacking players Payne frequently references as being possible singings.

Having these two midfield teamates joining up here would help fix our presently thin midfield. Not sure about Quioto or what he can offer but at least he's a forward.

If I was a betting man, I'd say it will be something like this. Not sure about the specific player as I haven't been keeping up with the rumours, but it makes a lot of sense to look at an Under 20 DP in our situation. Plus, Payne has said that is something they want to look at.

Hassli's move frees the DP slot + 350k of cap space. Sign a DP 20 years or younger and that gets us a DP at a 150k cap hit and leave 200k for another player or two. That's smart business. From the age of 21-23 that players cap hit will go up by 50k to 200k, leaving an additional 150k over having a single over 23 DP. That could potentially mean having a DP for up to 4 seasons without paying the full cap hit. A very smart and strategic way to strengthen a team without a massive cap hit if done right.

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm fine with TFC paying a very small portion of Hassli's salary. It's the 350K of additional cap space, the DP slot, international slot, and 2nd round pick/potential 1st round pick that are the crucial elements of the deal.

I have to say, Payne did an excellent job resolving the Hassli issue on terms that are quite favorable to TFC given the circumstances.

[Auzzy]

What does "conditional 2nd round pick" mean? Does that mean we get a 2nd round pick if the condition isn't met, and something more if it is met? or does it mean that we get a 2nd round pick if the condition is met and less or nothing if it isn't?

See the tweets above, from John Molinaro.

[Batman]

It's funny how Mariner seems to be the only one implicated in the odd timed re-signing of Hassli.. didn't Cochrane have something to do with it. Why does he seem to constantly survive bonehead moves?

[Ajax TFC]

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro
Just spoke to Payne. He said #TFC is paying “a very small portion” of Hassli’s salary for 2013 as part of trade. Declined to say amount.
so we're paying part of his salary. That could mean two things though. Are we paying the over the cap part of his salary because Dallas doesn't have the cash, or are we taking part of the cap hit?

[brad]

It's funny how Mariner seems to be the only one implicated in the odd timed re-signing of Hassli.. didn't Cochrane have something to do with it. Why does he seem to constantly survive bonehead moves?

Do we really have any idea what Cochranes role in this, is? Do we know if he was part of the decision making process or did he just execute on what Mariner told him?

Payne has been clearing house pretty heavily. If Cochrane was as big of a part of the problem, isn't there a good chance that Payne would have cleared him out as well?

[Batman]

Do we really have any idea what Cochranes role in this, is? Do we know if he was part of the decision making process or did he just execute on what Mariner told him?

Payne has been clearing house pretty heavily. If Cochrane was as big of a part of the problem, isn't there a good chance that Payne would have cleared him out as well?

I honestly don't know. Was he just a paper pusher, for Mariner. Certainly some things in the past have indicated that he was involved in decision making. I think he was very involved in the DeRo paperwork problems a year earlier.

[Oldtimer]

It's funny how Mariner seems to be the only one implicated in the odd timed re-signing of Hassli.. didn't Cochrane have something to do with it. Why does he seem to constantly survive bonehead moves?


Do we really have any idea what Cochranes role in this, is? Do we know if he was part of the decision making process or did he just execute on what Mariner told him?

Payne has been clearing house pretty heavily. If Cochrane was as big of a part of the problem, isn't there a good chance that Payne would have cleared him out as well?

Whether or not Cochrane had a major role, he's managed to convince Payne that he didn't, and so he lives to be at TFC another day. The ultimate survivor. What the reality is, we can't know.

[Auzzy]

so we're paying part of his salary. That could mean two things though. Are we paying the over the cap part of his salary because Dallas doesn't have the cash, or are we taking part of the cap hit?

Unfortunately I think this is probably really hard/close to impossible to find out. Especially since nobody even knows how much cap hit most players equal. (It's usually not equal to either number in the salary list released by the player's union.) Our numbers are now so fuzzy due to all those allo cash deals, this year is going to be even more of a guessing game.

[Ajax TFC]

Unfortunately I think this is probably really hard/close to impossible to find out. Especially since nobody even knows how much cap hit most players equal. (It's usually not equal to either number in the salary list released by the player's union.) Our numbers are now so fuzzy due to all those allo cash deals, this year is going to be even more of a guessing game.
except since he's a DP, we know that his total cap hit is 350k (or is it 360 now?). If Molinaro and Larson can find out that we're paying part of his salary, surely they can ask whether that's cap hit salary or the part that the club has to pay.

[ManUtd4ever]

Whether or not Cochrane had a major role, he's managed to convince Payne that he didn't, and so he lives to be at TFC another day. The ultimate survivor. What the reality is, we can't know.

He is definitely the ultimate survivor, considering that he is the only person within management left over from day one.

His name should be Cockroach.

[gdg_9]

so we're paying part of his salary. That could mean two things though. Are we paying the over the cap part of his salary because Dallas doesn't have the cash, or are we taking part of the cap hit?


Unfortunately I think this is probably really hard/close to impossible to find out. Especially since nobody even knows how much cap hit most players equal. (It's usually not equal to either number in the salary list released by the player's union.) Our numbers are now so fuzzy due to all those allo cash deals, this year is going to be even more of a guessing game.


except since he's a DP, we know that his total cap hit is 350k (or is it 360 now?). If Molinaro and Larson can find out that we're paying part of his salary, surely they can ask whether that's cap hit salary or the part that the club has to pay.

I asked Larsun and Molinaro.
Both said that it is cash and cap hit that we are paying, but that it is a small, insignificant amount in terms of the Cap Space.

[Auzzy]

Molinaro Sportsnet article: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2013/02/04/mls_toronto_fc_eric_hassli_kevin_payne/

[bones]

He is definitely the ultimate survivor, considering that he is the only person within management left over from day one.

His name should be Cockroach.

2 stick of a giant Cockroach with Earl's head on it....mmmwwwaaahahahahaha

[moralis]

It's amazing that TFC trade Hassli to FC Dallas for a conditional 2nd round pick (could become a 1st based on conditions), while New York trades Kenny Cooper for allocation money. TFC trades Hassli in a position of weakness because Hassli announces to everyone that he wants to be traded which weakness TFC's position, while New York trades Cooper in a position of strength and get a good chunk of allocation money and doesn't need to pay any of Copper's salary. As a TFC fan I understand trading Hassli, but we get almost nothing for him while New York get's a good bit of allocation money for trading Cooper to FC Dallas.

[gdg_9]

It's amazing that TFC trade Hassli to FC Dallas for a conditional 2nd round pick (could become a 1st based on conditions), while New York trades Kenny Cooper for allocation money. TFC trades Hassli in a position of weakness because Hassli announces to everyone that he wants to be traded which weakness TFC's position, while New York trades Cooper in a position of strength and get a good chunk of allocation money and doesn't need to pay any of Copper's salary. As a TFC fan I understand trading Hassli, but we get almost nothing for him while New York get's a good bit of allocation money for trading Cooper to FC Dallas.

Kenny Cooper also scored 18 goals last year, doesn't take up a DP spot, doesn't take up an International spot, and is 28

Hassli scored only 5, and is a 31 year old International DP


Cooper had MUCH more trade value than Hassli

[bones]

It's amazing that TFC trade Hassli to FC Dallas for a conditional 2nd round pick (could become a 1st based on conditions), while New York trades Kenny Cooper for allocation money. TFC trades Hassli in a position of weakness because Hassli announces to everyone that he wants to be traded which weakness TFC's position, while New York trades Cooper in a position of strength and get a good chunk of allocation money and doesn't need to pay any of Copper's salary. As a TFC fan I understand trading Hassli, but we get almost nothing for him while New York get's a good bit of allocation money for trading Cooper to FC Dallas.


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFudge...Cooper to Dallas :(

[Ultra & Proud]

It's amazing that TFC trade Hassli to FC Dallas for a conditional 2nd round pick (could become a 1st based on conditions), while New York trades Kenny Cooper for allocation money. TFC trades Hassli in a position of weakness because Hassli announces to everyone that he wants to be traded which weakness TFC's position, while New York trades Cooper in a position of strength and get a good chunk of allocation money and doesn't need to pay any of Copper's salary. As a TFC fan I understand trading Hassli, but we get almost nothing for him while New York get's a good bit of allocation money for trading Cooper to FC Dallas.

Well if he plays all year and performs then we'll get a first round pick next year and that's what we gave up for him so it's a wash. The first round pick is generally highly valued here as per the many, many rants bashing Mariner for acquiring Hassli for our one in the first place. We get there one next year and we're good.

[andmat]

Does anyone know for sure what the conditions are?

[Yohan]

Does anyone know for sure what the conditions are?
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2013/02/04/mls_toronto_fc_eric_hassli_kevin_payne/

[sidvan]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2013/02/04/mls_toronto_fc_eric_hassli_kevin_payne/
"Regardless, with Hassli gone and Koevermans still recovering and not expected to return to action until May at the earliest, Andrew Wiedeman and Justin Braun are the only established MLS strikers left on the roster."

Sorry, Wiedeman is NOT an established striker.

[TFC07]

"Regardless, with Hassli gone and Koevermans still recovering and not expected to return to action until May at the earliest, Andrew Wiedeman and Justin Braun are the only established MLS strikers left on the roster."

Sorry, Wiedeman is NOT an established striker.
Same with Braun. We have no established striker right now.

[kodiakTFC]

Without a striker, this team is looking dreadful.

[DangerRed]

Guys, have a bit of faith. We dealt him for a reason: room, monetarily and slot-wise. Payne will bring in a proven striker before the season starts. If YOU think we're light in attack, you gotta think Payne and Nelsen see it too.

[iy12l]

Now lets get rid of Paul Mariner's girlfriend, Dunfield

[sashavukelich]

Guys, have a bit of faith. We dealt him for a reason: room, monetarily and slot-wise. Payne will bring in a proven striker before the season starts. If YOU think we're light in attack, you gotta think Payne and Nelsen see it too.

+1 this is it guys. No Payne No Gain. The man is on the technical board of US Soccer, think he probably knows a thing or two about the game eh?

[tfcleeds]

Pretty sure he wouldn't have let go of Hassli if he didn't have a replacement waiting in the wings. At least I darn well hope so...

[Stryker]

It's funny how Mariner seems to be the only one implicated in the odd timed re-signing of Hassli.. didn't Cochrane have something to do with it. Why does he seem to constantly survive bonehead moves?
Cause he's Anselmi's boy.

[West220Side]

Now lets get rid of Paul Mariner's girlfriend, Dunfield

Some of you people on the forum truly aggravate me, you really have some fucked up priorities when it comes to this club. All (some) of you complain constantly about the turn around at this club. Yet in this thread it troubles me, angers me to see you're talking about releasing Koevermans, and trading Dunfield. We're trying to mend a front office, trying to fix a broken reputation of turning players away. You want to reward this man, a player with a heart bigger then ANYBODYS on this team, a player with a work rate that again surpasses even Frings on the field, he was our most valueable player last season and you want to trade him away? You must be mental, you actually must have a problem something disconnecting in the footballing part of your brain.

Some of you even want to release a striker who when on form burys 1 in 3. A guy who didn't sit back when there was trouble, fully called out the entire team to do better "worst team in the world" on the field he never shys away from a challenge. Rogers Centre with the boot in his leg? You all remember the big fight at the semi-final at BMO Field? That would've had punches thrown and major problems if Koevermans wasn't there he restrained a security guard at one point, he physically grabbed him and told him to walk away from the players because he was getting to hot.

Koevermans and Dunfield are great players, and better men.

[Yohan]

Some of you people on the forum truly aggravate me, you really have some fucked up priorities when it comes to this club. All (some) of you complain constantly about the turn around at this club. Yet in this thread it troubles me, angers me to see you're talking about releasing Koevermans, and trading Dunfield. We're trying to mend a front office, trying to fix a broken reputation of turning players away. You want to reward this man, a player with a heart bigger then ANYBODYS on this team, a player with a work rate that again surpasses even Frings on the field, he was our most valueable player last season and you want to trade him away? You must be mental, you actually must have a problem something disconnecting in the footballing part of your brain.
I think you're about to be accused of having Leafs mentality. Too much loving hard workers, not enough skilled players. lol.

Not that I disagree with you. He may not be the best player (not even close) to wear TFC shirt, but Dunfield loves to play for this team just as much as Dichio and Robbo did. Just as much as you can't win with a team of just Dunfields, you cannot win without some character guys like Dunfield on your team.


Some of you even want to release a striker who when on form burys 1 in 3. A guy who didn't sit back when there was trouble, fully called out the entire team to do better "worst team in the world" on the field he never shys away from a challenge. Rogers Centre with the boot in his leg? You all remember the big fight at the semi-final at BMO Field? That would've had punches thrown and major problems if Koevermans wasn't there he restrained a security guard at one point, he physically grabbed him and told him to walk away from the players because he was getting to hot.

Koevermans and Dunfield are great players, and better men.
Actually, Koevermans has a strike rate of just under 2 goals every 3 games in MLS. With a ridiculously good strike rate like that, you have to take a chance that Koevermans might recover something remotely close his former self. ACL is a terrible injury to come back from, but this is more of a problem for players that rely on speed. Koevermans is a poacher. As long as his mobility isn't shot, he'll still be at the right spot at the right time, and making timely runs to get at the end of the ball.

Since the odds of TFC making the playoffs is pretty slim, what does buying out Koevermans now exactly do? Buy him, find a new DP (and slim pickings on that front this time of the year), and hope for a miracle run?

[Yohan]

I never quite understood the hate of Hassli either. Hassli has never been most prolific goal scorer, hovering just under 1 goal every 3 games, about same in MLS. He had one injury ridden season in MLS and he's labelled as a nurse chaser.

Hassli managed to score 3 goals in 7 games on a shitty TFC team, and that's with a sore ankle and other nagging injuries. I have a feeling a healthy Hassli is going to score 12+ goals with Dallas, esp with a David Ferreira feeding him the ball.

[brad]

Since the odds of TFC making the playoffs is pretty slim, what does buying out Koevermans now exactly do? Buy him, find a new DP (and slim pickings on that front this time of the year), and hope for a miracle run?

The reason where it would make sense is if they are not planning on renewing his contract at the end of the year anyway (for whatever reason).

If you bought him out now then you have the cap space and DP slot open to bring in a replacement now (not necessarily a DP). The point not being to make a playoff push now, but to get the core of your team together as quickly as possible and give them time to acclimatize to the league and gel. Much better to go start the season next year with a player that has a year of MLS & TFC.

Koevs is a big "if" IMHO. The guy has the second best strike rate in league history (goals per minutes), and if he can come back fit, and back to that form then he is obviosuly worth keeping. That said, he is also a 34 year old player that has had injury problems with us, and has a big question mark over the fact that he is coming back from a serious injury. Keeping him is a huge gamble. If it pays off, it pays off mighty well. If it doesn't it goes a long way towards keeping this team in mediocrity.

Personally, I think that Frings and Koevs are gone at the end of the season (if not before for one of them) - I think the team is going to move away from the "aging vet" model of DP's and look for younger players from down south. I think there is a lot of merit in looking at 2-3 DP's that are 23 years or younger.

Also - as far as DP pickings right now - are they slim? Certainly if you are looking at European based players. But what about looking at Central American and South American players?

[brad]

I never quite understood the hate of Hassli either. Hassli has never been most prolific goal scorer, hovering just under 1 goal every 3 games, about same in MLS. He had one injury ridden season in MLS and he's labelled as a nurse chaser.

Hassli managed to score 3 goals in 7 games on a shitty TFC team, and that's with a sore ankle and other nagging injuries. I have a feeling a healthy Hassli is going to score 12+ goals with Dallas, esp with a David Ferreira feeding him the ball.

The guys holdup play was amongst the best I've seen in the league. If we had been able to pair him with the right partner up top it could have been a lethal combo.

Wasn't the issue with him at Van that he was streaky? Would go on a short tear and then be anonymous for stretches?

[Alonso]

Some of you people on the forum truly aggravate me, you really have some fucked up priorities when it comes to this club. All (some) of you complain constantly about the turn around at this club. Yet in this thread it troubles me, angers me to see you're talking about releasing Koevermans, and trading Dunfield. We're trying to mend a front office, trying to fix a broken reputation of turning players away. You want to reward this man, a player with a heart bigger then ANYBODYS on this team, a player with a work rate that again surpasses even Frings on the field, he was our most valueable player last season and you want to trade him away? You must be mental, you actually must have a problem something disconnecting in the footballing part of your brain.

Some of you even want to release a striker who when on form burys 1 in 3. A guy who didn't sit back when there was trouble, fully called out the entire team to do better "worst team in the world" on the field he never shys away from a challenge. Rogers Centre with the boot in his leg? You all remember the big fight at the semi-final at BMO Field? That would've had punches thrown and major problems if Koevermans wasn't there he restrained a security guard at one point, he physically grabbed him and told him to walk away from the players because he was getting to hot.

Koevermans and Dunfield are great players, and better men.


Exactly. Dunfield should stay.

He is not over paid. And brings tons of value for the salary in so many different ways. No amount of money in the world can buy the type of character that he has, and that this team needs more of.

[Auzzy]

I never had a hate for Hassli. I enjoyed watching him play last season (when he could). He seems to have kept his emotions under check while playing here, which was previously a knock against him. I also never had the feeling he didn't want to be here during the season. I think one issue, he was used wrong. Not yet fully healed, played lots of minutes in a few games, and in a role that really subjects you to abuse (which he gives as good as he gets): Extreme long ball, asking for extreme hold-up play. All that from a guy, who although big, is great with the soft touches & close interplay. So of course he didn't last & got injured again.

He was the wrong player at the wrong time in a lost season. Even now, his problem is as much the contracts of Ecks and O'Dea (plus the other DP's), which are even harder to dump that Hassli's. So Hassli has to take the fall. I'm sure he'll score or assist on some goals against as, as will Plata.

[Alonso]

I think you're about to be accused of having Leafs mentality. Too much loving hard workers, not enough skilled players. lol.

Not that I disagree with you. He may not be the best player (not even close) to wear TFC shirt, but Dunfield loves to play for this team just as much as Dichio and Robbo did. Just as much as you can't win with a team of just Dunfields, you cannot win without some character guys like Dunfield on your team.
Actually, Koevermans has a strike rate of just under 2 goals every 3 games in MLS. With a ridiculously good strike rate like that, you have to take a chance that Koevermans might recover something remotely close his former self. ACL is a terrible injury to come back from, but this is more of a problem for players that rely on speed. Koevermans is a poacher. As long as his mobility isn't shot, he'll still be at the right spot at the right time, and making timely runs to get at the end of the ball.

Since the odds of TFC making the playoffs is pretty slim, what does buying out Koevermans now exactly do? Buy him, find a new DP (and slim pickings on that front this time of the year), and hope for a miracle run?



Agreed. Koevermans should stay, he is a proven and prolific striker in this league. If a DP needs to be sacrificed I would put Frings on that altar.

If it was up to me I would keep them both and see how it goes. If it doesn't go well both of their contracts are up at the end of this year anyway. But I would really like to see what Frings can do with a full season at midfield proper, with a decent backline that he doesn't have to worry so much about or fill in for. I really liked the distribution that I saw from him last year when he was in that role, sparingly as it was.

[Alonso]

The reason where it would make sense is if they are not planning on renewing his contract at the end of the year anyway (for whatever reason).

If you bought him out now then you have the cap space and DP slot open to bring in a replacement now (not necessarily a DP). The point not being to make a playoff push now, but to get the core of your team together as quickly as possible and give them time to acclimatize to the league and gel. Much better to go start the season next year with a player that has a year of MLS & TFC.

Koevs is a big "if" IMHO. The guy has the second best strike rate in league history (goals per minutes), and if he can come back fit, and back to that form then he is obviosuly worth keeping. That said, he is also a 34 year old player that has had injury problems with us, and has a big question mark over the fact that he is coming back from a serious injury. Keeping him is a huge gamble. If it pays off, it pays off mighty well. If it doesn't it goes a long way towards keeping this team in mediocrity.

Personally, I think that Frings and Koevs are gone at the end of the season (if not before for one of them) - I think the team is going to move away from the "aging vet" model of DP's and look for younger players from down south. I think there is a lot of merit in looking at 2-3 DP's that are 23 years or younger.

Also - as far as DP pickings right now - are they slim? Certainly if you are looking at European based players. But what about looking at Central American and South American players?


On the worst team in league history.

Let's keep him for when the good times come and reap the rewards.


Also, very good points on the young DP's. Obviously Payne thinks that this is the future of the league as well. If MLS can get the Javier Hernandez's of the Latin American world and develop them to either be sold or become staples of our league it will help on all fronts.

[__wowza]

Some of you people on the forum truly aggravate me, you really have some fucked up priorities when it comes to this club. All (some) of you complain constantly about the turn around at this club. Yet in this thread it troubles me, angers me to see you're talking about releasing Koevermans, and trading Dunfield. We're trying to mend a front office, trying to fix a broken reputation of turning players away. You want to reward this man, a player with a heart bigger then ANYBODYS on this team, a player with a work rate that again surpasses even Frings on the field, he was our most valueable player last season and you want to trade him away? You must be mental, you actually must have a problem something disconnecting in the footballing part of your brain.

Some of you even want to release a striker who when on form burys 1 in 3. A guy who didn't sit back when there was trouble, fully called out the entire team to do better "worst team in the world" on the field he never shys away from a challenge. Rogers Centre with the boot in his leg? You all remember the big fight at the semi-final at BMO Field? That would've had punches thrown and major problems if Koevermans wasn't there he restrained a security guard at one point, he physically grabbed him and told him to walk away from the players because he was getting to hot.

Koevermans and Dunfield are great players, and better men.

i'd rep this more if i could.

danny has been, without a doubt, the best striker we've ever had. he's been a leader on and off the pitch. yes he's getting older, yes he's going to be out until may the earliest, but even sitting on the sidelines he's still giving interviews about how much he's looking forward to coming back even with all of the shit we've been through. he's never shied away from saying how he feels, so hearing people say that we should put him out to pasture, while he's saying how much he wants to come back AND HELP THIS CLUB, really chaps my ass.

as for dunfield, this is a guy i've constantly gone to bat for. people are so quick to associate him with mariner that they can't see anything else. i've pointed out that he was consistently our best midfield option last season (even moreso then torsten frings and at a fraction of the cost) in terms of forward passes delivered AND completed. this was a guy who worked his ass off every single day, and was proud playing to play for this team, even when the rest of you were laughing in his face. fuck me, even after he busted his ass against vancouver i still heard criticism.


we want a stable roster, we want "core guys" then let them come back, give them a shot, and let our coach determine whether or not they fit into his vision of our team this season.

[brad]

On the worst team in league history.

Let's keep him for when the good times come and reap the rewards.

I'm torn TBH. I'd love to see us keep him, and then see him get fit, stay fit and bag goal after goal with a better team behind him. But those are a lot of if's, and with the nature of the cap structure in this league, it's a lot to gamble with.

Sentimentality has no place in competitive sports. The arguments that some make about keeping him around for what he did and how he was mean nothing IMHO. You keep a player because of what they can contribute now, or what you think they can contribute in the future. No quality side will carry passengers for sentimentality sake. Look at the best in the business - Fergie. When a player out lives there usefulness - they are gone. Club legend or not. But you can do it in respectful ways without tarnishing the image of the club - unlike what we have done in the past.



Also, very good points on the young DP's. Obviously Payne thinks that this is the future of the league as well. If MLS can get the Javier Hernandez's of the Latin American world and develop them to either be sold or become staples of our league it will help on all fronts.

While maximizing the quality of the DP's is important (getting the next Hernandez would be pretty amazing), it's also pretty hard. There is also a lot of potential to game the cap a bit, so to speak. With a cap hit for 150k/20 or younger and 200k for 21-23, there is a lot of potential here to improve the quality of the team without having superstars.

You could, for example use one or two of the DP slots to bring in, say a young player that would be a very good MLS player (say - upper end of the cap if non-DP), but sign them as a DP and save significant cap space.

The obvious argument against would be sign three budding young stars, which would be ideal, but is obviously a lot tougher.

[gdg_9]

The ONLY reason you get rid of Koev's before waiting to see if he can regain his form is if you already have a Younger DP deal done, and the only way to make it official is by getting rid of Koev's DP spot and cap-hit.

If you don't absolutely need that spot right away, there is no risk whatsoever in having a wait-and-see approach with regards to him coming back.

And with Hassli now gone, I doubt TFC will absolutely need Koev's space too this season.

The guy (by all accounts) seems like a great presence on the team and a positive influence to the players around him.

He's already talking about wanting to come back strong from this injury to perform for THIS team, not just this year, but in the future as well. He talks of wanting to be on OUR Wall-of-Fame.

You don't just get rid of a player of his strike-rate and quality (on and off the pitch), who actually CARES and is committed to being a part of this team's success even after his current contract is over.

[Ultra & Proud]

Things with Koev is simple if we take out sentiment. Yes he is the best striker we've had and could be a league best forward if he recovers 100% plus he said all the right things about the club and city but, if Payne wants a younger squad built for the long haul and if Danny K is not in the cards to be re-signed past this season then it's a waste to spend that cap space and DP spot on having a striker for a half season in a rebuilding year.

Again, it's no different than having Hassli here for a few pointless months last year.

[gdg_9]

Things with Koev is simple if we take out sentiment. Yes he is the best striker we've had and could be a league best forward if he recovers 100% plus he said all the right things about the club and city but, if Payne wants a younger squad built for the long haul and if Danny K is not in the cards to be re-signed past this season then it's a waste to spend that cap space and DP spot on having a striker for a half season in a rebuilding year.

Again, it's no different than having Hassli here for a few pointless months last year.


It's only a waste if Payne has plans to use that space this year on a younger, long term piece.
With Hassli gone, plus all the allocation we have, I doubt Payne will need that space.

If he does, then fine - Koev's can go.
But I highly doubt Payne will be bringing in 3 DP level players this season.

(We already have space for one with Hassli gone, and Payne was quoted as saying we have enough allocation after the draft to add another DP level player from that)

[jabbronies]

Glad to see Hassli traded, no need to have two strikers who play the exact same game here.

I'm a Koevs fan and if he is healthy I think he still has a solid year, maybe two left in him. Not like he was a runner before, so loss of speed with this injury isn't a huge factor IMO. As long as he can be in the right places at the right time and as long as he can still fight for the ball, then I don't see why we would get rid of him.

A younger DP striker with pace would be the best compliment to his game. Someone who can take the heat off of him with his pace and someone who should by all theories be open for through passes and be able to make those epic striker runs. Gives us two options up front assuming we stick with the 4-2-2...although I would rather see a 4-3-1-2 sort of setup as it's more attack friendly.

[brad]

The ONLY reason you get rid of Koev's before waiting to see if he can regain his form is if you already have a Younger DP deal done, and the only way to make it official is by getting rid of Koev's DP spot and cap-hit.

Or you need the cap space to complete a deal or two for a non-DP player(s) that improves the overall team now and helps us build toward the future.

I see a fair number of players here:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/season?season_year=2012&group=GOALS

That scored 10 or more goals last year that are not DP's.

Also - Payne recently said the cap situation is bad.

It's simple really. Is TFC better now and over the next few years with Koevermans on the roster, or with the cap space used on other players. That is a question none of us can answer.

[DangerRed]

I would not bat an eye if Frings was bought out. No questions asked. As long as we get young, in-form replacements from somewhere less overpaid than Western Europe, I'm happy.

Danny K is different because he scores like a maniac. Still, if Payne said, "we have a striker we can bring on who's 25, proven as a serious goal threat in a South American league of decent stature, but we have to dump Danny to make it happen," I'd say go ahead. To me rebuilding is always largely about youth, because even youth can carry a lot of experience. I'd be willing to take that chance. Would you want a one-year goal machine who gets injured relatively often, or someone who has a 25% conversion rate but could stay here for 3 years or more?

Frings especially, but Danny too to some lesser degree, are dinosaurs by football standards. More importantly, they're an albatross around the neck of this team.

[Yohan]

Glad to see Hassli traded, no need to have two strikers who play the exact same game here.

I'm a Koevs fan and if he is healthy I think he still has a solid year, maybe two left in him. Not like he was a runner before, so loss of speed with this injury isn't a huge factor IMO. As long as he can be in the right places at the right time and as long as he can still fight for the ball, then I don't see why we would get rid of him.

A younger DP striker with pace would be the best compliment to his game. Someone who can take the heat off of him with his pace and someone who should by all theories be open for through passes and be able to make those epic striker runs. Gives us two options up front assuming we stick with the 4-2-2...although I would rather see a 4-3-1-2 sort of setup as it's more attack friendly.
uh, Hassli liked to play outside the box while Danny K parked himself inside 6 yard box basically. two totally different strikers

[Yohan]

Things with Koev is simple if we take out sentiment. Yes he is the best striker we've had and could be a league best forward if he recovers 100% plus he said all the right things about the club and city but, if Payne wants a younger squad built for the long haul and if Danny K is not in the cards to be re-signed past this season then it's a waste to spend that cap space and DP spot on having a striker for a half season in a rebuilding year.

Again, it's no different than having Hassli here for a few pointless months last year.
some of best strikers in MLS produced at 34-35. Like Juan Pablo Angel, Thierry Henry. Jaimie Moreno. DeRo. Robbie Keane will be 33 in July. Hell, even Jeff Cunningham potted 10 goals at age 34.

Strikers with Danny K's skill set that doesn't rely on pace (IE poacher types) can last a long time, even at old age. Best example? Pippo Inzaghi.

Giving up on Danny K, thinking that he's washed up, when there is no evidence to contrary other than big question mark about whether Danny K will come back fully fit after ACL injury is nuts. Rarely you will find a pure finisher like Danny K in MLS, and odds you hitting gold finding another like Danny K is extremely slim.

[jloome]

i've pointed out that he was consistently our best midfield option last season (even moreso then torsten frings and at a fraction of the cost) in terms of forward passes delivered AND completed.

Ridiculous. He had the worst "completed percentage" for passing of any other starting central midfielder in the league OTHER than Frings; and that was largely because Frings was the only one of the two trying to create anything with his passing; he took all the high-risk passes, while Dunfield barely managed to maintain a 75% passing rate despite the fact that few of his passes travelled more than five yards.

He has a decent workrate, but covers no ground. He has the upside of character, although it's already been noted by Kocic that guys were cheerful after games last year, and on more than on occasion the camera would cut to Dunfield in a game we were losing or had just lost and he'd be smiling.

I'm glad that he loves football; I think he loves the club and works pretty hard. But he's not competent for this level. He's a backup, at best, a bench filler. If Terry Dunfield is starting on this team, we are losing a lot of games.

On Koevermans, I completely agree. Giving up a player with his strike rate because he's 34 and getting his knee scoped is forgetting the finishing in this league. The guy's strike rate is unparallelled in MLS by anyone over the last two seasons except Wondolowski, so if we only get him for 10 or 15 games, we'll still probably get 6-12 goals out of the guy, and that's with just a partial season.

[jabbronies]

uh, Hassli liked to play outside the box while Danny K parked himself inside 6 yard box basically. two totally different strikers

Both slow and can't make runs past the D. Both relied heavily on being poachers, just on different sides of the pitch.
Pretty similar to me.

[Yohan]

Both slow and can't make runs past the D. Both relied heavily on being poachers, just on different sides of the pitch.
Pretty similar to me.
my definition of a 'poacher' seems different than yours. (and I suspect, most other peoples)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXbAp5jl4J0

[DangerRed]

i'd rep this more if i could.

...as for dunfield, this is a guy i've constantly gone to bat for. people are so quick to associate him with mariner that they can't see anything else. i've pointed out that he was consistently our best midfield option last season (even moreso then torsten frings and at a fraction of the cost) in terms of forward passes delivered AND completed. this was a guy who worked his ass off every single day, and was proud playing to play for this team, even when the rest of you were laughing in his face. fuck me, even after he busted his ass against vancouver i still heard criticism.


we want a stable roster, we want "core guys" then let them come back, give them a shot, and let our coach determine whether or not they fit into his vision of our team this season.

Sorry but this kind of commentary completely ignores any consideration to technical ability, skill or impact on end-game results.

To say that Dunfield is a great footballer is patently ridiculous. By no technical, skill-based standard of observing the game is he good. He would be routinely beaten, was tentative or mis-timed with his challenges, provided inconsistent service to up-front and tracked back sometimes.

We've had plenty big-hearted, well-meaning losers at this club, who loved it, looked like someone died after a loss, and then picked themselves up all over again to lose the following weekend. That's not success.

However many dollars we're paying him, it's that many dollars too many. He's not at this league's standard, plain and simple. If you don't understand why he came here and why still is here, take a look at his history, then line it up against Mariner's. Non-bloodline nepotism?

Anyway, my bet is Nelsen/Payne will still shed him.

[Oldtimer]

I think Dunfield will be kept, but probably as bench strength. He can cheer the boys on from there.

It was telling that depth-quality players (and in MLS you always need a few of them due to the cap) under Mariner played a starring role.

[ag futbol]

We've had plenty big-hearted, well-meaning losers at this club, who loved it, looked like someone died after a loss, and then picked themselves up all over again to lose the following weekend. That's not success.

Agreed. Who couldn't like all the guys we had from year one? They were great people, but unfortunately they were the biggest losers we had ever seen. The other thing is that more often than not I've found people have made character judgments about players on our squad that we later found out weren't at all true. It was just what they seemed like to us, looking from the outside in.

Basically what I'm saying is, it's all a bunch of crap. We're not running a country club here, these guys need to win, I don't care if they like each other or have certain character traits.

[Oldtimer]

Character does count. Winning teams have players with character. However, being outgoing and everybody's pal is not needed. Also, everyone needs footballing skills commensurate with their cap hit, including Dunfield, regardless of how nice they make the locker room.

[billyfly]

Shouldn't we take the "?" out of the thread title?

[ag futbol]

Character does count. Winning teams have players with character. However, being outgoing and everybody's pal is not needed. Also, everyone needs footballing skills commensurate with their cap hit, including Dunfield, regardless of how nice they make the locker room.
I've seen plenty of teams out there who win trophies who are filled with players who can't stand the site of each other. I've also seen teams that get along well make it to the top.

Can good character give a push in the right direction? yes. Is is required to win? no.

Character often gets mixed up with personal accountability, which is really what's required. Players have to take responsibility for their roles within the team to get things done. That's really what matters.

Looking at it from the outside we often latch onto people who fit our cultural stereotypes who we assume have "character" and therefor accountability. It's an extension of the perception the public has about professional athletes and the nature of sports. Everything gets put into a neat little box, but it ignores so much about what happens around the game.

[Alonso]

some of best strikers in MLS produced at 34-35. Like Juan Pablo Angel, Thierry Henry. Jaimie Moreno. DeRo. Robbie Keane will be 33 in July. Hell, even Jeff Cunningham potted 10 goals at age 34.

Strikers with Danny K's skill set that doesn't rely on pace (IE poacher types) can last a long time, even at old age. Best example? Pippo Inzaghi.

Giving up on Danny K, thinking that he's washed up, when there is no evidence to contrary other than big question mark about whether Danny K will come back fully fit after ACL injury is nuts. Rarely you will find a pure finisher like Danny K in MLS, and odds you hitting gold finding another like Danny K is extremely slim.


Agreed.

Many people here talk about known and unknown quantities... This is the greatest possible example. We have lighting in a bottle here. Best to keep it and see where it goes rather than trying to catch another bolt of lighting (which hardly ever happens).

[T-boy]

I think Dunfield will be kept, but probably as bench strength. He can cheer the boys on from there.

It was telling that depth-quality players (and in MLS you always need a few of them due to the cap) under Mariner played a starring role.

I totally agree! Players like Emory, Hall, Dunfield, Amerikwa, and Weidemann are all ok at DEPTH level in the MLS. But last season they all ended up being all in the first team at the same time. That should never happen again. I'd be quite happy if Dunfield started the odd game to give Frings and Cesar a rest, but otherwise he should just be a backup if we need to close out a game in the last ten minutes with an extra DM in tough midfield games.

[gdg_9]

I totally agree! Players like Emory, Hall, Dunfield, Amerikwa, and Weidemann are all ok at DEPTH level in the MLS. But last season they all ended up being all in the first team at the same time. That should never happen again. I'd be quite happy if Dunfield started the odd game to give Frings and Cesar a rest, but otherwise he should just be a backup if we need to close out a game in the last ten minutes with an extra DM in tough midfield games.

^THIS^

Guys like Dunfield are a vital part of an MLS team like TFC.
In addition to coming off the bench later in games, they are also needed for some of the extra games, such as Voyageurs Cup games and early CCL qualifiers.
There are just too many games to rely on your regular starting 11 to play them all - especially for older guys like Frings.
And with the Salary-Cap, your depth players must come cheap.

As long as Dunfield, Emory, Hall, etc. are on good contracts and are used properly in suitable depth roles, they can be a valuable contributing member of the club.
It's when they are forced to play in too many situations over their heads that it becomes a problem.

[brad]

I totally agree! Players like Emory, Hall, Dunfield, Amerikwa, and Weidemann are all ok at DEPTH level in the MLS. But last season they all ended up being all in the first team at the same time. That should never happen again. I'd be quite happy if Dunfield started the odd game to give Frings and Cesar a rest, but otherwise he should just be a backup if we need to close out a game in the last ten minutes with an extra DM in tough midfield games.


^THIS^

Guys like Dunfield are a vital part of an MLS team like TFC.
In addition to coming off the bench later in games, they are also needed for some of the extra games, such as Voyageurs Cup games and early CCL qualifiers.
There are just too many games to rely on your regular starting 11 to play them all - especially for older guys like Frings.
And with the Salary-Cap, your depth players must come cheap.

As long as Dunfield, Emory, Hall, etc. are on good contracts and are used properly in suitable depth roles, they can be a valuable contributing member of the club.
It's when they are forced to play in too many situations over their heads that it becomes a problem.

QFT.

My opinion has long been that the biggest impact on the quality of the MLS is the inability to have any real quality in depth. It means the quality of play declines heavily for most teams as few as a few of the starters are out. But even more, it means that competition for places is limited - and this is a critical part of any team.

[Oldtimer]

I've seen plenty of teams out there who win trophies who are filled with players who can't stand the site of each other. I've also seen teams that get along well make it to the top.

Can good character give a push in the right direction? yes. Is is required to win? no.

Character often gets mixed up with personal accountability, which is really what's required. Players have to take responsibility for their roles within the team to get things done. That's really what matters.

Looking at it from the outside we often latch onto people who fit our cultural stereotypes who we assume have "character" and therefor accountability. It's an extension of the perception the public has about professional athletes and the nature of sports. Everything gets put into a neat little box, but it ignores so much about what happens around the game.

I won't disagree with you, I've seen what you've seen, I'm just taking it from a slightly different angle. I coached for many years, and personal accountability is a big part of what I would call "character," so I think we are just defining "character" differently. By "character," I don't mean being funny, the life of the party, chums with everyone or anything like that. I mean:

* personal accountability for one's own work rate and performance
* leading by example, not just words
* integrity in dealing with team-mates and the coaching staff
* ability to inspire others to perform

I've seen and had players like that, and believe me, if you have 2 or 3 guys like that, it becomes much easier to coach and motivate that team, because they are already 90% of the way there. Do you absolutely need it? No, but it helps.

It's nice when everybody gets along, and I think that helps as well, but I agree that it's not absolutely necessary. Also, we get the feeling that everyone was chummy at TFC last year without really trying all that hard, which was actually counter-productive. But that is because there wasn't enough of what I would call real "character," starting from the coach on down.

Without actually being in the locker-room, it appears that Frei has that kind of real character, Dunfield looks like he might have it as well (although his footballing skills aren't strong enough to be a starter in MLS). Hassli (to get back on topic) most definitely didn't.