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Lucky Strike
01-07-2013, 02:44 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2013/01/breaking-tfc-set-to-name-nelsen-new-head-coach.html

flamehawk
01-07-2013, 02:48 PM
YES! Best news in a while, outside of having Payne hired.

I am slightly worried about Nelsen's lack of management experience and am unsure about his knowledge of the league having left so long ago, but Payne does seem to have an eye for management talent with his appointment of Olsen (and it appears Nowak too based on what the article said).

Lucky Strike
01-07-2013, 02:51 PM
^I am too, to be honest. TFC has never hired anyone with previous senior team managerial experience outside of MoJo's few games at RBNY. But such is my distate for Mariner that I'm glad he's being replaced (and I have tended to advocate stability at the position, so that says a lot).

NEXT: Earl Cochrane!

Red I
01-07-2013, 02:54 PM
as per SBI, Nelsen to be named new head coach - Mariner on his way out...


http://www.soccerbyives.net/2013/01/breaking-tfc-set-to-name-nelsen-new-head-coach.html (http://www.soccerbyives.net/2013/01/breaking-tfc-set-to-name-nelsen-new-head-coach.html)

Canary10
01-07-2013, 02:55 PM
I like Mariner out but not sure of Nelsen's coaching credentials. Amazing.

CommradePolski
01-07-2013, 02:58 PM
danceparty.jpg

Detroit_TFC
01-07-2013, 02:59 PM
@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro): A source just confirmed to me what Ives first reported. Ryan Nelsen has been hired as the new #TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) coach.

CommradePolski
01-07-2013, 03:02 PM
^I am too, to be honest. TFC has never hired anyone with previous senior team managerial experience outside of MoJo's few games at RBNY. But such is my distate for Mariner that I'm glad he's being replaced (and I have tended to advocate stability at the position, so that says a lot).

NEXT: Earl Cochrane!

False.

We had Preki. He had MLS experience before TFC. No one else did except MoJo.

Dreadlocks
01-07-2013, 03:03 PM
Molinaro has tweeted the same.

TOBOR !
01-07-2013, 03:09 PM
Best. News. Ever.

TOBOR !
01-07-2013, 03:10 PM
I'd rather have the Ikea Monkey running the team than Mariner... wait - they've never been seen together have they ? Hmm... I wonder...

Canary10
01-07-2013, 03:12 PM
This makes no sense to me at all, as much as Paul Mariner being fired is a great late Christmas present....

Red Rat
01-07-2013, 03:12 PM
Its party time!!!! I want to go down to BMO and dance naked as promised
:flare:

Torontotonto
01-07-2013, 03:13 PM
Not suprised.
Good job Payne !!!

razor787
01-07-2013, 03:14 PM
Wow piss poor move. The guy has no coaching experience. Im glad mariner is on his way out, but this better not be a long term move. I hope we have a true head coach coming, because he won't be the one to lead us long term.

Yohan
01-07-2013, 03:17 PM
Well, this explains Mariner's silence as he must have known something like this is coming for a while.

Ryan Nelsen looks to be Kevin Payne's next Ben Olsen project, except Nelsen has better playing pedigree. Looks to be similar character though. Captains New Zealand and also at DC, Blackburn and was QPR's vice captain. At least Nelsen won't take guff and gives a shit about result in the field, if anyone saw QPR in 1st half season this year when Nelsen was like the only guy who gave a damn on the pitch.

Also, don't expect playoffs this year as KP is clearly looking for rebuilding. He gave Ben Olsen 3 years to make the playoffs, and likely will be patient with Ryan Nelsen to learn the ropes of MLS as well.

[NBF]
01-07-2013, 03:17 PM
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/i-found-exactly-one-fuck-it-is-my-gift-to-you.jpg


Well, I guess I have no choice but to be on board.

ag futbol
01-07-2013, 03:18 PM
YES! Best news in a while, outside of having Payne hired.

I am slightly worried about Nelsen's lack of management experience and am unsure about his knowledge of the league having left so long ago, but Payne does seem to have an eye for management talent with his appointment of Olsen (and it appears Nowak too based on what the article said).
Yep, little concerning about his experience but I think the young managerial candidates bring a lot to the table these days. I really think it's the way to go as opposed to re-treading some MLS 1.0 hire.

The best of the old crop have adapted and still have jobs. The worst have fallen off and it doesn't look like they are becoming more effective with additional kicks at the can.

Ultra & Proud
01-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Wow piss poor move. The guy has no coaching experience. Im glad mariner is on his way out, but this better not be a long term move. I hope we have a true head coach coming, because he won't be the one to lead us long term.

People said the same thing about Kries at the the end of 2007. Look how that turned out.

Oldtimer
01-07-2013, 03:20 PM
:party:

I trust Payne in this area. As the article points out, he gave Peter Nowak and Ben Olsen their starts.

Several observations:

(1) While I would prefer someone with a lot of MLS experience, clearly no one with experience would come to a club with the reputation of TFC, and TFC's infamy as the "worst club in the world" means that the bad reputation is world-wide.

(2) Payne is clearly now in charge and putting in his own people. He knows Nelsen well, so has a good idea of what he brings to the table.

(3) I expect Paul Mariner to be totally gone. The original plan looked like it was to have PM mentor Nelsen and then PM to be kicked upstairs. I think he didn't go with the plan and now he finds himself out of a job.

I am very pleased with what I am seeing, both in player acquisitions, and (now) with the coaching change.

daner90
01-07-2013, 03:22 PM
Amazing news. they could of replaced Mariner with a 5 year old and they would do a better job with this team than Mariner.

TFC has found a proper footy president, dropped ticket prices back to year one and fired Mariner. Hit all three wishes on my wishlist for the offseason!!

tfcleeds
01-07-2013, 03:24 PM
Yep, I am eager to have this confirmed! BTW, would Nelsen still be a player-coach, as was initially mentioned, or would he now solely be in a managerial role? Yes, it's a bit concerning (his lack of experience) but it also is a new direction - at least he's not some retread. That in itself is a refreshing change. If he's half as successful as Olsen's been so far, I'll be happy.

barticusz
01-07-2013, 03:27 PM
Fantastic news. Brick Top is gone!!!!!

daner90
01-07-2013, 03:28 PM
Amazing news. they could of replaced Mariner with a 5 year old and they would do a better job with this team than Mariner.

TFC has found a proper footy president, dropped ticket prices back to year one and fired Mariner. Hit all three wishes on my wishlist for the offseason!!

tfcleeds
01-07-2013, 03:32 PM
I posted in the other thread, but the initial speculation was that Nelsen would come in as a player-coach. Now with this latest development, does that mean he'll focus solely on managerial duties?

OfficeGuy
01-07-2013, 03:32 PM
good riddance - I'll not miss his antics at all

Phil
01-07-2013, 03:33 PM
Curious to see this confirmed but its looking more and more solid.

I know Mariner was back in NE during some critical moves, so that alone made me scratch my head a bit.

Cobblers
01-07-2013, 03:33 PM
DC United family reunion - rongen coached nelsen at DC while Payne was president, I think

Super
01-07-2013, 03:33 PM
Happy to see Mariner go. Nothing personal. I just don't think he's right for us. Best of luck to him!

Ryan Nelsen? Sure, why not. We've become known to be the club that hires head coaches with little to ZERO coaching experience at the top level. I only hope that this is the one time where doing the same thing doesn't have the same outcome.

TOBOR !
01-07-2013, 03:35 PM
Amazing news. they could of replaced Mariner with a 5 year old and they would do a better job with this team than Mariner.

TFC has found a proper footy president, dropped ticket prices back to year one and fired Mariner. Hit all three wishes on my wishlist for the offseason!!

I heard you the first time.

Red Rat
01-07-2013, 03:43 PM
mariner has been traded to NYRB for their water boy!!!

mastermixer
01-07-2013, 03:54 PM
Not that it matters, but I had a good feeling this was coming.
I even posted a couple of replies on here about all the recent articles over the last month or so on TFC not including comments by Mariner, mostly Cochrane and Payne.

Canary10
01-07-2013, 03:54 PM
For what it's worth, 'Arry thought very highly of Nelsen. These are the kinds of qualities you want in a leader (from Sky Sports):

And Redknapp said: "There is some truth in the rumour I'm afraid. Nelsen (http://topics.skysports.com/Ryan+Nelsen/?section=football)http://static.lingospot.com/spot/image/spacer.gif is very important to us, a fantastic leader and a top player, but he has been offered a job in America and I think there is every chance he might want to go.
"He wants to be a manager and it is a chance for him to manage a club.
"He has been fantastic. I took him to Tottenham last year from Blackburn and he's one of the best pros I've ever met in my life, a fantastic player, a great trainer, a leader. He is a massive part of your team and to lose him would be a massive blow for us."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/8382530/

ensco
01-07-2013, 03:54 PM
Well, this explains Mariner's silence as he must have known something like this is coming for a while.

Ryan Nelsen looks to be Kevin Payne's next Ben Olsen project, except Nelsen has better playing pedigree. Looks to be similar character though. Captains New Zealand and also at DC, Blackburn and was QPR's vice captain. At least Nelsen won't take guff and gives a shit about result in the field, if anyone saw QPR in 1st half season this year when Nelsen was like the only guy who gave a damn on the pitch.

Also, don't expect playoffs this year as KP is clearly looking for rebuilding. He gave Ben Olsen 3 years to make the playoffs, and likely will be patient with Ryan Nelsen to learn the ropes of MLS as well.

It'sactually weird that QPR are letting him go. Seriously. They're in a desperate situation and Nelson has been playing major minutes and, apparently, playing well.

TFC Cityboy
01-07-2013, 03:54 PM
have to trust in Payne at this point. He is doing a floor to ceiling rebuild (and I think we all agree the baby had to be thrown out with the bathwater). Makes total sense to bring in someone he can TRUST implicitly. Mariner would never be that guy as we saw with the power struggle between him and Winter/BDK.

Clean slate. Timing is good 2 weeks before the superdraft and pre-season training.

Yes I'd have been more enthusiastic with a proven coach but I'm willing to give KP the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Earl Cockring - you are next

BBBulldog
01-07-2013, 03:59 PM
God damn it. Was hoping he'd land in DC with Olsen :/ GRRRR

JamboAl
01-07-2013, 04:06 PM
Woohoo! Party time. I have tons of respect for Ryan Nelsen as a leader. Given the right support, I'm sure he'll do a fine job. But best of all, Mariner is gone.

mowe
01-07-2013, 04:07 PM
I am ECSTATIC that Mariner's gone. Got up and did a dance when I read the news.

I don't know about Nelson though. I'm tired of inexperienced coaches. Who knows how prepared he'll be going straight from playing to coaching. Training camp kicks off in a couple weeks. Interesting note (to me anyway): he's a year younger than Frings.

This is a big risk by Payne, let's see how it plays out. Right now I'm just elated about the much-needed change. Going to be a fun season, can't wait.

Flipityflu
01-07-2013, 04:14 PM
it goes to show you just how far this team has gone down, dragging its supporters with them, that you have excitement for hiring somebody with 0 management experience as the new head coach.

congrats for buying into MLSE's excuse for this season. no wonder they do what they want.

notthesun
01-07-2013, 04:14 PM
Payne bringing the pain. God damn this news made me happy.

reggie
01-07-2013, 04:17 PM
For what it's worth, 'Arry thought very highly of Nelsen. These are the kinds of qualities you want in a leader (from Sky Sports):

And Redknapp said: "There is some truth in the rumour I'm afraid. Nelsen (http://topics.skysports.com/Ryan+Nelsen/?section=football)http://static.lingospot.com/spot/image/spacer.gif is very important to us, a fantastic leader and a top player, but he has been offered a job in America and I think there is every chance he might want to go.
"He wants to be a manager and it is a chance for him to manage a club.
"He has been fantastic. I took him to Tottenham last year from Blackburn and he's one of the best pros I've ever met in my life, a fantastic player, a great trainer, a leader. He is a massive part of your team and to lose him would be a massive blow for us."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/8382530/

looks like our new coach will be in better shape then the players are when camp starts..

Oldtimer
01-07-2013, 04:19 PM
it goes to show you just how far this team has gone down, dragging its supporters with them, that you have excitement for hiring somebody with 0 management experience as the new head coach.

congrats for buying into MLSE's excuse for this season. no wonder they do what they want.

You don't know Payne, if you followed DC (or even read the article), you'd see that Payne has hired rookies for DC twice, both of whom have proved stellar coaches, Nowak even winning the MLS Cup.

Now if it was still Tom Anselmi making the coaching decisions, I'd be even more cynical than you.

Yohan
01-07-2013, 04:19 PM
http://i.thestar.com/images/99/3f/38c2310c42dfa7ce2823ebf84a88.jpg

Initial B
01-07-2013, 04:22 PM
*Sigh* Here we go again. I'm guessing that this year will be another writeoff as Nelsen learns how to coach.

Whatever happened to the party line that TFC would lose all credibility with MLS if they fired Mariner after the end of the season? I guess Payne has credibility in spades?

Why do I have a bad feeling that the franchise is about to auger into the ground and the end of its final death spiral? There's to many new pieces to fit and all I forsee is chaos. Why didn't he pull the trigger earlier and give the new coach time to prepare for the player Combine? This is like Winter all over again. Payne had better do a god-like job of managing expectations of the fans if he hopes to have any season ticket holders left for next year.

Yohan
01-07-2013, 04:23 PM
Nelsen is supposedly like an on field mentor while playing. And he can motivate the hell out of people. As much as New Zealand sucks, they only let in 1 goal in group stage during World Cup, incl 1-1 draw against Italy. A lot of it is manager's tactics, but I also think Ryan Nelsen as the All Whites captain did helluva job organizing the defence. Hopefully he can fix the leaky defence and instill new mentality into the team.

Cannibal
01-07-2013, 04:24 PM
Hey Guys !!! Long time reader first time poster lol. Great news and for a guy like Harry Redknapp to comment the following this Nelson guy must be the ticket. I like the LEADER part. Just what weve needed for the longest time.
"He has been fantastic. I took him to Tottenham last year from Blackburn. He's one of the best pros I've ever met in my life, a fantastic player, a great trainer, a leader," he said.
"He is a massive part of your team [but] he wants to be a manager and it is a chance for him to manage a club."

Canary10
01-07-2013, 04:25 PM
*Sigh* Here we go again. I'm guessing that this year will be another writeoff as Nelsen learns how to coach.

Whatever happened to the party line that TFC would lose all credibility with MLS if they fired Mariner after the end of the season? I guess Payne has credibility in spades?

Why do I have a bad feeling that the franchise is about to auger into the ground and the end of its final death spiral? There's to many new pieces to fit and all I forsee is chaos. Why didn't he pull the trigger earlier and give the new coach time to prepare for the player Combine? This is like Winter all over again. Payne had better do a god-like job of managing expectations of the fans if he hopes to have any season ticket holders left for next year.

That was hardly the consensus. I think most people saw him as a poor coach, beyond a few in the media and the odd blogger.

ag futbol
01-07-2013, 04:31 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to hear a little more about what happened here behind the scenes leading up to the Payne hiring. This just looks like an extension of the same theme.

1. season comes to an end - no indication from the club whatsoever that they'll be firing mariner. Press friendly to management are given their token rah-rah stories.

2. Payne shows up at press conference - Anslemi, Cochrane, Mariner ... all look completely stunned. complete 180 from everything the club was saying previously

3. Mariner gets shown door one month later and we have new coach

Somebody north of Anselmi in the totem pole must really have got behind cleaning house here, don't think this was his work. Lot of links to the "MLS blocked my deal" Mariner sorry floating around today. Have to wonder if they didn't like that so much and decided to call in a hit to clean up an under-performing market.

sidvan
01-07-2013, 04:34 PM
Nelsen is supposedly like an on field mentor while playing. And he can motivate the hell out of people. As much as New Zealand sucks, they only let in 1 goal in group stage during World Cup, incl 1-1 draw against Italy. A lot of it is manager's tactics, but I also think Ryan Nelsen as the All Whites captain did helluva job organizing the defence. Hopefully he can fix the leaky defence and instill new mentality into the team.
Only team to go undefeated at the World Cup

Canary10
01-07-2013, 04:37 PM
"I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to hear a little more about what happened here behind the scenes leading up to the Payne hiring. This just looks like an extension of the same theme.

1. season comes to an end - no indication from the club whatsoever that they'll be firing mariner. Press friendly to management are given their token rah-rah stories.

2. Payne shows up at press conference - Anslemi, Cochrane, Mariner ... all look completely stunned. complete 180 from everything the club was saying previously

3. Mariner gets shown door one month later and we have new coach

Somebody north of Anselmi in the totem pole must really have got behind cleaning house here, don't think this was his work. Lot of links to the "MLS blocked my deal" Mariner sorry floating around today. Have to wonder if they didn't like that so much and decided to call in a hit to clean up an under-performing market."

^ I think he's just a shit coach and Payne knew it.

KRO
01-07-2013, 04:38 PM
Interested to read that Nelsen has a degree in political science from Stanford. This must make him our smartest Head Coach by a mile.

Yohan
01-07-2013, 04:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IYwf2SBWa5o

he takes fried chicken seriously

mowe
01-07-2013, 04:42 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to hear a little more about what happened here behind the scenes leading up to the Payne hiring. This just looks like an extension of the same theme.

Agree with you. The Payne signing has MLS all over it. The league probably didn't think Mariner/Cochrane were the best people to run a club and sent Payne's resume to Anselmi. Cue the accelerated makeover.

Detroit_TFC
01-07-2013, 04:43 PM
As cool as it would be to have him as a player-coach, more likely he will retire to be released from his QPR contract.

mcolvy
01-07-2013, 04:55 PM
As cool as it would be to have him as a player-coach, more likely he will retire to be released from his QPR contract.


I would like this move if he was coming in as the ASSISTANT COACH. The guy will still have the jitteries to play week in and week out and its hard coming so recently from such a high level to then watch your lower class players struggle and literally want to get into that game and help.. Also Frings is older then him...

bahahha What will Torsten think of a player with less pedigree then he, who is also younger, becoming the coach..........

Super
01-07-2013, 04:59 PM
People said the same thing about Kries at the the end of 2007. Look how that turned out.

Kreis was a former player and therefore knew RSL intimitely. That's not the case with Nelsen. Also, they obviously took a chance. Have you ever hired people before? Sometimes you'd probably take a risk on a guy with ZERO experience, but would you take that risk every single time? Or do you just not value experience? I'm puzzled by your comment on this thing. TFC have hired inexperienced coaches like 7-8 times, and every time we failed. Now we're trying it one more time. Every single time I hear Peter Kreis' name thrown around as if that proves that experience is not needed to be successful in football. Of course it isn't. But lack of experience should NEVER trump experience - if you can find it.

Super
01-07-2013, 05:03 PM
People said the same thing about Kries at the the end of 2007. Look how that turned out.


Kreis was a former player and therefore knew RSL intimitely. That's not the case with Nelsen. Also, they obviously took a chance. Have you ever hired people before? Sometimes you'd probably take a risk on a guy with ZERO experience, but would you take that risk every single time? Or do you just not value experience? I'm puzzled by your comment on this thing. TFC have hired inexperienced coaches like 7-8 times, and every time we fail. In fact, it seems like it's the lack of experience that kicks us in the ass every time as well. It's our #1 problem: lack of experience. Every single time I hear Peter Kreis' name thrown around as if that proves that experience is not needed to be successful in football. Of course it isn't absolutely needed. But lack of experience should not be equal to experience - or even trump it.


I'm willing to give the guy a chance, but if it doesn't work then I'll blame the inexperience - yet again. And then I hope it'll be the last time I have to hear about Peter Kreis when we once again move for another name with ZERO coaching experience.

ManUtd4ever
01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
It was evident at the conclusion of last season that Mariner wasn't likely to lead our club to success moving forward, and in that sense, I'm relieved that Payne pulled the trigger now as opposed to feeling obliged to start the season with Mariner.

I would have preferred a proven coach as well, but as OT mentioned, it's not as if there are an abundance of proven MLS coaches lining up to manage TFC given our troubled history.

I do think that Nelsen has the characteristics necessary to evolve into a quality leader and a motivator, but make no mistake, this is a risky maneuver in terms of garnering positive results in the short term.

Yohan
01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
I would like this move if he was coming in as the ASSISTANT COACH. The guy will still have the jitteries to play week in and week out and its hard coming so recently from such a high level to then watch your lower class players struggle and literally want to get into that game and help.. Also Frings is older then him...

bahahha What will Torsten think of a player with less pedigree then he, who is also younger, becoming the coach..........
Frings will still be a professional? It's not like Nelsen's resume blows. Years of exp in EPL plus played in a WC. Plus Frings is gone after this season.

Important thing is that any player who joins TFC will likely to have respect for Nelsen, at least as a player.

Fort York Redcoat
01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Detractors of this move have little to stand on.

An unknown quantity is always better than a sure misfire.

If one wants to be down on this move because its not good enough little would appease them at this point. Anyone brought in now wouldn't have enough time...blah, blah, blah.

I look forward to what this young coach can do.


For an entire season, please.

Suds
01-07-2013, 05:05 PM
Can't believe I didn't get the job!

Yohan
01-07-2013, 05:08 PM
It was evident at the conclusion of last season that Mariner wasn't likely to lead our club to success moving forward, and in that sense, I'm relieved that Payne pulled the trigger now as opposed to feeling obliged to start the season with Mariner.

I would have preferred a proven coach as well, but as OT mentioned, it's not as if there are an abundance of proven MLS coaches lining up to manage TFC given our troubled history.

I do think that Nelsen has the characteristics necessary to evolve into a quality leader and a motivator, but make no mistake, this is a risky maneuver in terms of garnering positive results in the short term.

This is a long term move. For people expecting Nelsen to deliver immediate success is likely not going to happen.

Canary10
01-07-2013, 05:12 PM
There is massive pressure on Payne. This is now his team. A guy with everything on the line would not be making this move lightly.

Also really like what Harry Redknapp had to say about Nelsen. Pretty high praise from a guy that knows his shit. I think he could be very good.

Suds
01-07-2013, 05:12 PM
Detractors of this move have little to stand on.

An unknown quantity is always better than a sure misfire.

If one wants to be down on this move because its not good enough little would appease them at this point. Anyone brought in now wouldn't have enough time...blah, blah, blah.

I look forward to what this young coach can do.


For an entire season, please.

I have no ide is Nelsen will be successful. But one thing is sure, we've wanted a single person making the calls at TFC of who is in charge at TFC and let that person stay or go based on those decisions. We've wanted to see people in the club having clear and concise roles. TFC gave us that by hiring Payne. Payne is now building the out the coaching and other areas as he sees fit. We're getting wat many of us asked for. Time to get behind the people being put in place to take us forward.

tfcmanu
01-07-2013, 05:12 PM
Will Nelsen wear a suit on the sidelines...SUIT THERE IT IS! :facepalm:

ag futbol
01-07-2013, 05:15 PM
Can't believe I didn't get the job!
You will, it's part of the SSH renewal package.

Greatest Ripoff
01-07-2013, 05:18 PM
Have you ever hired people before? Sometimes you'd probably take a risk on a guy with ZERO experience

I've been running a business for the past 10 years I have hired many people and none of them have had any experience in my field. But they have been all people I that I have known and knew what type of person they were. And in this case, Payne knows Nelsen and knows they type of person he is getting. From my experience, that cuts out a lot of the risk.

gdg_9
01-07-2013, 05:22 PM
looks like our new coach will be in better shape then the players are when camp starts..

Sad, but probably true!

Hopefully that can rub off on the team tho... be a motivating factor for players.

I would imagine it could get embarrassing to repeatedly get beat by your coach in training!

ManUtd4ever
01-07-2013, 05:23 PM
Agreed Yohan, but I fear that this fan base is fragile at this point, and I don't think it can withstand another embarrassing season with a rookie manager learning on the job. At the very least, TFC has to display tangible progress as the season wears on and finish with some momentum. Another lost season that finishes with a wimper would be catastrophic.

That being said, I have the utmost confidence in Payne, and I know that he is hiring a known quantity from his perspective. I just hope it pays dividends sooner rather than later.

ag futbol
01-07-2013, 05:24 PM
This is a long term move. For people expecting Nelsen to deliver immediate success is likely not going to happen.
Really, who could deliver for this club short term?

Moves notwithstanding the roster is still an unmitigated disaster. We're spending way too much on injury prone DPs, too much for a couple of so-so defenders, and generally giving USL quality players the illusion they belong in a better league than they do. I don't think anything is going to save us from having a bad year.

Mariner and Cochrane extended players they shouldn't have and tied up resources that makes it hard for the next person in the door to do their job.

SoccMan
01-07-2013, 05:32 PM
Yes, yes and yes, nothing else to say!

WestStandGeoff
01-07-2013, 05:36 PM
I'd rather have the Ikea Monkey running the team than Mariner... wait - they've never been seen together have they ? Hmm... I wonder...

No way in hell - the Ikea monkey dresses way more professionally than Mariner ever did.

TFC07
01-07-2013, 05:39 PM
CP24 is saying Mariner was fired. lol

Voodooman
01-07-2013, 05:44 PM
I really liked Nelsen as a player, strong defender!

Gazza
01-07-2013, 05:45 PM
When we run out of players, we have a better option than our equipment guy to lace 'em up and step in. I like the way Payne thinks.

bones
01-07-2013, 05:53 PM
When we run out of players, we have a better option than our equipment guy to lace 'em up and step in. I like the way Payne thinks.

Hey now! That only happened once and we actually WON that game didn't we? :)

69Chevy396
01-07-2013, 05:55 PM
Danny Dichio should have been hired.

Ivy
01-07-2013, 06:18 PM
At the press conference, I hope somebody asks them folks about these Hundurians we been hearing about... And PM's magical time in Scandanavia.

ensco
01-07-2013, 06:23 PM
Nelsen captained the only undefeated team at WC2010. For that reason alone, Nelsen has my support even if he starts 0-18.

But then I didn't renew.

(Seriously, the hire makes sense. He doesn't know MLS but that's Payne's job. The real risk is that he'll be gone back to England quickly if he has a moderate level of success. But those are problems it'd be nice to have.

Nice to see TFC, and MLS, not be the Last Chance Saloon - for an example of that see Montreal's hire today - but instead be a natural landing spot for someone on the way up)

T-boy
01-07-2013, 06:30 PM
I've always admired Nelson as a player. Extremely professional. He's been QPR's player of the season so far, without doubt. It will be a pity if he's hanging up his boots, but will also be an excellent training for the young guys we have in the squad.

I can't wait for the official announcement tomorrow, will be fascinating!

maxpower
01-07-2013, 06:42 PM
Jesus fucking christ.

I don`t get this club. We change the man up top making the decisions, but the decisions stay the same. There is absolutely no fucking reason why Ryan Nelsen, Someone with absolutely no coaching experience whatsoever, should be our first fucking choice for a manager when the exact fucking thing we need is a proven, MLS, Winner. Just some fucking guidance,please.

Why is it that whenever there are problems with the team on the field, their first reaction is to throw money at it to sign players that, on face value, bring a lot of talent and experience to the team. BUT NO.NEVER. EVER. A COMPETENT FUCKING COACH.


Maybe Nelsen will turn out to be the second coming of Mourinho or Ferguson or whoever. Maybe this is the start of a dynasty. But this move is really (reaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy) uninspiring and frankly, to me at least, stinks of a lack of ambition. I guess we really are aiming to be just hovering around a playoff spot every year, just like they said.

flamehawk
01-07-2013, 06:44 PM
Something else I am curious about is who will be Nelsen's assistant? I really doubt Brennan would be sticking around in that role? Promoting Rongen?

Ajax TFC
01-07-2013, 06:48 PM
For those calling this the same old thing that MLSE has always done: There's a huge difference between Tom Anselmi - A building engineer for MLSE - hiring a guy with no previous experience, and Kevin Payne - an experienced a proven MLS executive - hiring a guy with no previous coaching experience. Besides that, unlike Anselmi, Payne will actually fully support his coach

anto7
01-07-2013, 06:51 PM
CP24 is saying Mariner was fired. lol
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/01/07/toronto-fc-fires-paul-mariner-brings-in-queens-park-rangers-ryan-nelsen-as-coach/

Yohan
01-07-2013, 06:52 PM
'Arry: “He’s just one of the best pros I’ve ever met in my life,” said Redknapp of a player he signed for Tottenham from Blackburn Rovers. “Fantastic player, great trainer, leader.

“He’s a massive part of your team. To lose him would be a massive blow for us.”

So, Nelsen has been helping with training at QPR?

Eastend
01-07-2013, 06:52 PM
This was just mentioned on CTV news as being set to be announced tomorrow.

Dom

anto7
01-07-2013, 06:55 PM
'Arry: “He’s just one of the best pros I’ve ever met in my life,” said Redknapp of a player he signed for Tottenham from Blackburn Rovers. “Fantastic player, great trainer, leader.

“He’s a massive part of your team. To lose him would be a massive blow for us.”

So, Nelsen has been helping with training at QPR?

I think that probably means that he trains really well himself not that he is training others...IMO

bman27
01-07-2013, 06:58 PM
For those calling this the same old thing that MLSE has always done: There's a huge difference between Tom Anselmi - A building engineer for MLSE - hiring a guy with no previous experience, and Kevin Payne - an experienced a proven MLS executive - hiring a guy with no previous coaching experience. Besides that, unlike Anselmi, Payne will actually fully support his coach

for the love of god, this completely!!!!!!

This is right up Payne's alley, his did it with Olsen and Nowak

he obviously has certain things he looks for in these guys. Payne must see this in Nelson to hand his first appointment here to him.

I'm much more excited over someone like this then rehashing some MLS 1.0 reject with "experience" but does not know how to adapt their game to the modern incarnation of this league.

ryan
01-07-2013, 06:58 PM
I actually remember that 2010 New Zealand team quite well. They weren't supposed to get a point and they didn't lose a match! Fun show they were.

maxpower
01-07-2013, 06:59 PM
'Arry: “He’s just one of the best pros I’ve ever met in my life,” said Redknapp of a player he signed for Tottenham from Blackburn Rovers. “Fantastic player, great trainer, leader.

“He’s a massive part of your team. To lose him would be a massive blow for us.”

So, Nelsen has been helping with training at QPR?

I wouldn't read in to that too much. Knowing 'Ol Harry he's probably just commenting on his work ethic in practice. He's been known to like work ethic. He's English after all.

anto7
01-07-2013, 07:05 PM
Call me an eternal optimist but reading this makes me very excited about this club for the first time in a while.

TORONTO — Toronto FC’s radical remake has cost Paul Mariner his job, while offering veteran defender Ryan Nelsen his first opportunity as head coach.
The moves, confirmed by The Canadian Press, will be announced at a news conference Tuesday.
Earlier Monday, the worst club in MLS announced that technical manager Bob de Klerk has left by mutual agreement. With Mariner joining him on the way out, Toronto FC has wiped out the remaining ties to the Aron Winter era.
Mariner took over from Winter last June, becoming Toronto’s seventh coach in six years.
The signing of Nelsen is a bold move by recently appointed Toronto president and GM Kevin Payne who has wasted little time tearing down the struggling MLS franchise since taking control on Nov. 28.
Nelsen, a 35-year-old New Zealander, played for Payne at D.C. United. This season, Nelsen has been one of the few bright spots at Queens Park Rangers in the English Premier League.

Yohan
01-07-2013, 07:10 PM
Not all KP manager hirings have been successful, but interesting to note KP gave Bruce Arena his first chance at MLS in 1996

Fishnicker
01-07-2013, 07:10 PM
Something else I am curious about is who will be Nelsen's assistant? I really doubt Brennan would be sticking around in that role? Promoting Rongen?


It's rumoured to be Fran O'Leary, NCAA coach. Don't know where Brennan fits in all this, but I'll give Payne the benefit of the doubt if he wants to ditch him.

OgtheDim
01-07-2013, 07:11 PM
Personally, I don't rate Harry as a good judge of the ability to coach/manage a team.

I do rate Payne as one.

Auzzy
01-07-2013, 07:13 PM
We'll see how this goes, fingers crossed.

I haven't seen this mentioned: I wonder what type of formation & style of play Nelsen will prefer?

Yohan
01-07-2013, 07:32 PM
Personally, I don't rate Harry as a good judge of the ability to coach/manage a team.

srsly? his record with Tottenham suggests otherwise

OgtheDim
01-07-2013, 07:40 PM
He was good at West Ham way back when.

Spurs......not sold on how much real man management he did.

That, and he doesn't go to the training sessions, so how would he know if Nelson is a good trainer or not?

maxpower
01-07-2013, 07:44 PM
srsly? his record with Tottenham suggests otherwise

Are you serious? From the tottenham website:http://www.tottenhamhotspurs.tv/forum/player-chat/20320-harry-redknapps-hits-misses.html

He managed to spend 50 million in one window on Keane, Chimbonda, Palacios and Defoe. That in itself should tell you that it would be far better for Redknapp to never have to be the judge of any talent in any circumstance.


The vast majority of successful signings tottenham have made in recent history were made while Comolli was operating transfers.

Super
01-07-2013, 07:46 PM
I've been running a business for the past 10 years I have hired many people and none of them have had any experience in my field. But they have been all people I that I have known and knew what type of person they were. And in this case, Payne knows Nelsen and knows they type of person he is getting. From my experience, that cuts out a lot of the risk.

Fair enough, but in my field of work lack of experience can seriously hurt the business. Oh well, I hope he works out of course. He'll be a rookie at the job, and that makes me nervous. No idea what to expect. Feels like deja vu for me. But I'll get over it - we all need to get behind the lad to get him started right.

Yohan
01-07-2013, 07:48 PM
Are you serious? From the tottenham website:http://www.tottenhamhotspurs.tv/forum/player-chat/20320-harry-redknapps-hits-misses.html

He managed to spend 50 million in one window on Keane, Chimbonda, Palacios and Defoe. That in itself should tell you that it would be far better for Redknapp to never have to be the judge of any talent in any circumstance.


The vast majority of successful signings tottenham have made in recent history were made while Comolli was operating transfers.

for what it's worth, managed to finish 4th twice in EPL.

maxpower
01-07-2013, 07:54 PM
for what it's worth, managed to finish 4th twice in EPL.

Could have spent that 50 million on a real striker and maybe they would have finished higher and he wouldn't have been sacked.

However, it's a mute point and off topic.

__wowza
01-07-2013, 08:00 PM
changed my signature accordingly.

Rochdale
01-07-2013, 08:06 PM
Hopefully Payne will call his friend Cochrane into
his office and tell him that he is next to go.

Masked Man
01-07-2013, 08:24 PM
Getting rid of Mariner was a good call. I never really had a high opinion of him & thought he was a derisive presence that lacked the leadership skills to be a good coach. My opinion of Payne goes up a bit because you aren't building anything with Mariner. You can't worry about perception, you gotta do whats right for the team. This team needs a uniting figure that can help them build the team mentality that has been non-existent since the beginning.

The real test for Payne is he going to give Nelsen the time that no coach has had with TFC to date?

jloome
01-07-2013, 08:31 PM
Getting rid of Mariner was a good call. I never really had a high opinion of him & thought he was a derisive presence that lacked the leadership skills to be a good coach. My opinion of Payne goes up a bit because you aren't building anything with Mariner. You can't worry about perception, you gotta do whats right for the team. This team needs a uniting figure that can help them build the team mentality that has been non-existent since the beginning.

The real test for Payne is he going to give Nelsen the time that no coach has had with TFC to date?

I think it's a smart choice. When you know a guy's leadership characteristics and intelligence as a player, it's a good gambler to hire them as a coach. Let's face it, those are the two principle issues.

69Chevy396
01-07-2013, 08:32 PM
Getting rid of Mariner was a good call. I never really had a high opinion of him & thought he was a derisive presence that lacked the leadership skills to be a good coach. My opinion of Payne goes up a bit because you aren't building anything with Mariner. You can't worry about perception, you gotta do whats right for the team. This team needs a uniting figure that can help them build the team mentality that has been non-existent since the beginning.

The real test for Payne is he going to give Nelsen the time that no coach has had with TFC to date?

The real test for Payne will be what others before him have routinely failed at, namely winning more games than losing. On paper this is still the worst club in the league.

bgnewf
01-07-2013, 08:36 PM
just put this on Twitter:

A couple of #MLS questions just in case. When/Who was the last Player/Coach & how does a Player/Coach count against the cap? #TFCNeedsToKnow


thoughts??

FluSH
01-07-2013, 08:50 PM
LOLL

Dave67
01-07-2013, 08:51 PM
Glad PM is gone and I like the idea of trying out a new coach. I just hope that the club and the fans give Nelsen at least two years to learn the trade and get results. TFC needs some consistency at the coaching level. Payne has chosen Nelsen, we need to give him more than half a season before throwing him under the bus.

CoachGT
01-07-2013, 08:53 PM
Eighth time a charm......

West220Side
01-07-2013, 09:23 PM
just put this on Twitter:

A couple of #MLS questions just in case. When/Who was the last Player/Coach & how does a Player/Coach count against the cap? #TFCNeedsToKnow


thoughts??

Gregg Berhalter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Berhalter) was a player coach for the los angeles galaxy was he not?
Youtube: "Gregg Berhalter: LA's coach on the field" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxLMhQTrV9E
During the 2011 season he counted for $96,000 against the cap. (http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/May%201,%202011%20Salary%20Information%20-%20By%20Club.pdf)

I don't really know though. I'm just assuming. I don't think he's going to be a player coach though. It would be hard to be a head coach and play without a reliable assistant coach to man-manage from the sidelines during the game.

ManUtd4ever
01-07-2013, 09:29 PM
Glad PM is gone and I like the idea of trying out a new coach. I just hope that the club and the fans give Nelsen at least two years to learn the trade and get results. TFC needs some consistency at the coaching level. Payne has chosen Nelsen, we need to give him more than half a season before throwing him under the bus.

And there is the rub. I'm willing to be patient to an extent, and I'm sure that you and many others are as well.

Is the fan base at large willing to accept 1-2 more years of futility in order to get it right? I think not.

Rookie managers have done great things in MLS before, and I hope Nelsen is the next feel good story.

TFCwestcan
01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
We'll see how this goes, fingers crossed.

I haven't seen this mentioned: I wonder what type of formation & style of play Nelsen will prefer?

Likely one that keeps the ball out the net, joking aside, he will at the very least reduce the goals against with a robust approach to defence. It will interesting to hear Nelsen's comments. He was the heart & soul of Blackburn when he played there and from what i have read the same with QPR, therefore we can assume he familiar with struggling clubs. We can hope that he will carry his passion that forward into coaching, with less dancing on the sidelines. I am also intrigued about his rumoured assistant coach Fran O'leary from the college ranks.

While the desire to see Nelson as player-coach is irrestisible I think in the end it is unwise for the position of head coach if he was assistant coach that would have been one thing. I think as head coach he will have his hands full, especially at this club.

Bobinhood
01-07-2013, 09:33 PM
Damn straight he plays! This guy immediately becomes by far our best defender, the best we've ever had. Hes a hard man. He and the Irishman should be a decent pair. Hes old but hes playing at a good level in the prem as we speak. Hes in my fantasy team ffs, as best choice low cost defender. I will be really pissed if hes not a playing-coach.

Maybe this move even avoids a dp debacle like last year where we couldnt shore up the d becouse it lacked glamour from the leagues point of view. Here we do the same thing, we add an otherwise expensive player on d but his salary probably doesnt count or his dp designation might not count count becouse...hey..hes the coach.

fcing a. He can transition as he ages 35-38 and when his legs finally give way, hey presto, off to a championship or prem side as manager with his new pedigree as a manager. Its brilliant.

Sold.

and just no more Angus Young schoolboy uniform shorts on the sidelines is going to make a massive improvement right there. :D

[NBF]
01-07-2013, 09:36 PM
When I read that Paul Mariner's tenders to european players he "scouted" fell through in December, I was asking, "What was the purpose of the Scandinavian/Cyprus tour if it lead to absolutely nothing and why would a new President keep a guy who has spent so much team money on a paid vacation?"

I think Paul Mariner was caught with his hands in the cookie jar when he returned from his vacation and that was the final straw.

Rene Kingsriver
01-07-2013, 09:58 PM
I feel in my bones that this is going to be a very good appointment, everything I've seen of Nelsen during his career on the field and off in interviews has been very positive. Sure it would be nice to get an experienced MLS winning coach but unfortunately there's no Schmid, Arena or Kreis available right now

ag futbol
01-07-2013, 10:09 PM
;1550414']When I read that Paul Mariner's tenders to european players he "scouted" fell through in December, I was asking, "What was the purpose of the Scandinavian/Cyprus tour if it lead to absolutely nothing and why would a new President keep a guy who has spent so much team money on a paid vacation?"

I think Paul Mariner was caught with his hands in the cookie jar when he returned from his vacation and that was the final straw.
Well I don't know how open the executive was with Mariner and Cochrane about a pending GM hire but when Payne showed up at the presser and was told we just signed a DP a few days earlier, he looked a little irked.

TFC07
01-07-2013, 10:10 PM
;1550414']When I read that Paul Mariner's tenders to european players he "scouted" fell through in December, I was asking, "What was the purpose of the Scandinavian/Cyprus tour if it lead to absolutely nothing and why would a new President keep a guy who has spent so much team money on a paid vacation?"

I think Paul Mariner was caught with his hands in the cookie jar when he returned from his vacation and that was the final straw.
LMAO @ that picture! Agreed about Mariner being caught and shown to be useless in the end to Payne.

Mattsp71
01-07-2013, 10:37 PM
MLS Players that went from playing to Coaching
Peter Nowak
Jason Kries
Jay Heaps
Ben Olsen
guillermo barrs Schelotto Head Coach of Lanus
Gregg Berhalter was an asst but was playing now Head Coach of Hammarby IF

Ajax TFC
01-07-2013, 10:45 PM
I don't think anyone has mentioned yet what makes this so awesome. He's a Kiwi!!

OgtheDim
01-07-2013, 11:04 PM
Hmmm.....Kurtis Larson still in denial about Mariner's abilities. http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/07/tfc-tabsryan-nelsen-as-head-coach

Focusing a bit much on what Payne said about Mariner back in November.

And repeats the 3 year deal thingie.

TFC07
01-07-2013, 11:21 PM
Hmmm.....Kurtis Larson still in denial about Mariner's abilities. http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/07/tfc-tabsryan-nelsen-as-head-coach

Focusing a bit much on what Payne said about Mariner back in November.

And repeats the 3 year deal thingie. He's just bitter that he lost his source. lol Now he has to find a new source within TFC so he can write his articles.

greatwhitenorf
01-07-2013, 11:49 PM
Personally, I don't rate Harry as a good judge of the ability to coach/manage a team.

I do rate Payne as one.

Two points from eight games when Redschnapps arrived. Champions League qualification the next season, clinched with a gritty 1-0 away win at Man City.

Vindication for 'Arry came in three words chanted from the Park Lane End when they were spanking Inter Milan - Taxi for Maicon!

'Arry didn't bring Nelsen into Spurs for the speed of his wheels. He brought him in for the speed of his brain cells, the work ethic, and the character that made him instantly respected in the changeroom, wherever he played.

This guy's a leader. Mariner looked like an outcast extra from Wayne's World. Never filled me with confidence. Nelsen is 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

Auzzy
01-08-2013, 12:53 AM
Hmmm.....Kurtis Larson still in denial about Mariner's abilities. http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/07/tfc-tabsryan-nelsen-as-head-coach

Focusing a bit much on what Payne said about Mariner back in November.

And repeats the 3 year deal thingie.

Hmm, here's an interesting quote from that article: "Still, the silent majority was interested in seeing what Mariner could conjour up in 2013."

Silent majority, really? Now we perhaps know what Larson's "sources" really were -- the voices in his own head?

Strikers
01-08-2013, 12:56 AM
I'm happy that Mariner is gone, but I don't think Earl will be leaving. My feeling is Payne will keep Earl as a personal assistant who gets him coffee, picks up the dry cleaning and shines his shoes.


As for Nelson he has a presence that commands the respect of fellow players. Should be an interesting season.

Am sure Nelson & Payne will bring in one or two coaches with Brennan & Bent continuing to work with TFC Academy programs.


I would like to see Danny Dichio on the sidelines with Nelson and hopes he gets promoted.

Oldtimer
01-08-2013, 06:47 AM
I'm happy that Mariner is gone, but I don't think Earl will be leaving. My feeling is Payne will keep Earl as a personal assistant who gets him coffee, picks up the dry cleaning and shines his shoes.


Agreed, he'll use Earl in the capacity in which he's qualified, not as a contract manager or GM, but maybe showing new players around the clubhouse, booking travel, etc.

Alixir
01-08-2013, 07:20 AM
Agreed, he'll use Earl in the capacity in which he's qualified, not as a contract manager or GM, but maybe showing new players around the clubhouse, booking travel, etc.getting coffee, taking the uni's out of the dryer...

ensco
01-08-2013, 07:39 AM
Agreed, he'll use Earl in the capacity in which he's qualified, not as a contract manager or GM, but maybe showing new players around the clubhouse, booking travel, etc.

What Payne does with Cochrane remains the true litmus test of the independence of his regime.

Cochrane reports to Anselmi. In reality if not on paper.

brad
01-08-2013, 08:19 AM
What Payne does with Cochrane remains the true litmus test of the independence of his regime.

Cochrane reports to Anselmi. In reality if not on paper.

Possibly, but not a given IMHO. This is based on the fact that Payne has a prior working relationship with Earl, and we don't know what he thinks of Earl from that time.

Oldtimer
01-08-2013, 08:29 AM
What Payne does with Cochrane remains the true litmus test of the independence of his regime.

Cochrane reports to Anselmi. In reality if not on paper.

Cochrane worked for Payne in DC. It's no litmus test at all, Payne might keep him because Payne likes him as an administrative assistant, a job he is actually good at. We dislike Cochrane because as a GM he is a massive failure, but everyone has a job that they are good at.

http://briarcroft.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/poop.jpg

http://www.millbryhill.co.uk/equestrian-530/horse-stable-yard-586/stable-shovels-brushes-605/manure-handle-stable-shovels-34026-9189_zoom.jpg

Fort York Redcoat
01-08-2013, 08:50 AM
Hmm, here's an interesting quote from that article: "Still, the silent majority was interested in seeing what Mariner could conjour up in 2013."

Silent majority, really? Now we perhaps know what Larson's "sources" really were -- the voices in his own head?

I gotta thank you for sharing the best bits of his articles since I don't read him. I think that silent majority were just resigned to the signs of atrophy from the people in charge of making the decision for the change.

I'm glad the decsion was made in the end and the task of getting a new regime ready is well at hand.

ensco
01-08-2013, 09:48 AM
Possibly, but not a given IMHO. This is based on the fact that Payne has a prior working relationship with Earl, and we don't know what he thinks of Earl from that time.

So what? Cochrane was in an unimportant role in DC. He spit the bit when given his shot here.

We're in a global war for talent. Payne just went to England to find his manager. How can Payne look at Cochrane's track record here, and keep him in the important role he has had here, working closely with Nelsen? Who in the entire world would speak highly of Cochrane (the way so many important people are speaking highly of Nelsen)? What kind of message is keeping Cochrane, for Nelsen?

btw demoting people doesn't work in life, it poisons the work environment. Cochrane has to go.

Based on how he handles himself and what he is doing, I now have complete confidence that Payne knows all this. The question is, what does Payne have the freedom, perceived or otherwise, to do?

ensco
01-08-2013, 09:51 AM
btw listening to the Soccer Show on Sirius XM this morning, Ray Hudson started the show by breaking off the planned first topic (the announcement of the Fifa All World XI yesterday) to discuss Ryan Nelsen. Hudson was the coach at DCU when Nelsen was there. He absolutely loves Nelsen, thinks he will be a massive success in MLS. He took the armband away from Marco Etcheverry to give it to Nelsen.

Joe Kool
01-08-2013, 10:06 AM
So what? Cochrane was in an unimportant role in DC. He spit the bit when given his shot here.

We're in a global war for talent. Payne just went to England to find his manager. How can Payne look at Cochrane's track record here, and keep him in the important role he has had here, working closely with Nelsen? Who in the entire world would speak highly of Cochrane (the way so many important people are speaking highly of Nelsen)? What kind of message is keeping Cochrane, for Nelsen?

btw demoting people doesn't work in life, it poisons the work environment. Cochrane has to go.

Based on how he handles himself and what he is doing, I now have complete confidence that Payne knows all this. The question is, what does Payne have the freedom, perceived or otherwise, to do?

My guess is I think Cochrane will be doing the legwork on things (finding out stats, making phone calls, crunching some numbers, etc.) and Payne probably figures that he is good enough for that and when something gets closer to being done, or a real opportunity comes along, he will get involved and give it the final approval. It works that way in my job...I manage and there are people to do the smaller stuff. They don't need to be great...just good enough to do the legwork on some tasks. That is my guess for the Cochrane situation anyway. Not a demotion or anything...just a change in duties/processes.

jabbronies
01-08-2013, 10:08 AM
Two points from eight games when Redschnapps arrived. Champions League qualification the next season, clinched with a gritty 1-0 away win at Man City.

Vindication for 'Arry came in three words chanted from the Park Lane End when they were spanking Inter Milan - Taxi for Maicon!

'Arry didn't bring Nelsen into Spurs for the speed of his wheels. He brought him in for the speed of his brain cells, the work ethic, and the character that made him instantly respected in the changeroom, wherever he played.

This guy's a leader. Mariner looked like an outcast extra from Wayne's World. Never filled me with confidence. Nelsen is 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

This quote also caught my attention about this guy:
“He’s one of the best pros I’ve ever met in my life, a fantastic player, a great trainer, a leader,” Redknapp told the BBC

Having a manager with a strong work ethic and fresh out of the game will hopfully light a fire under the asses of these guys.
Wondering how the veterans will view him though - Frings, Koevs, and french guy who's name i can't remember right now.

Technorgasm
01-08-2013, 10:12 AM
thsi being the4 internet, I say have at it.
LEt the assumptions and feelings fly wildly!!!
Fact is, we are the worst team ever. . and we dont know a THING abotu Nelsen as a coach.
but. . it cant be any worse.

Anyone willing to be associated with this franchise deserves a chance. . .AN-E-ONE.
including all of us here. . . . . and IKEA monkey of course.

Maybe he can convince Harry Kewel to sign for us. . .

ensco
01-08-2013, 10:13 AM
My guess is I think Cochrane will be doing the legwork on things (finding out stats, making phone calls, crunching some numbers, etc.) and Payne probably figures that he is good enough for that and when something gets closer to being done, or a real opportunity comes along, he will get involved and give it the final approval. It works that way in my job...I manage and there are people to do the smaller stuff. They don't need to be great...just good enough to do the legwork on some tasks. That is my guess for the Cochrane situation anyway. Not a demotion or anything...just a change in duties/processes.

That would work if Cochrane hadn't been Anselmi's man. But he was/is, so it doesn't work.

ensco
01-08-2013, 10:15 AM
Maybe he can convince Harry Kewel to sign for us. . .

QPR also released Kieron Dyer today.

Initial B
01-08-2013, 10:38 AM
As much as I think Cochrane needs to go, I think he'll be staying because iirc he's also the TFC contact with the CSA. I just hope he doesn't poison the work environment or work behind Payne's back. I don't put too much stock in him reporting to Anselmi because the COO position is *not* the top position at MLSE - that will be the CEO whenever they get around to appointing one. I also have a feeling that MLS itself is backing Payne to the hilt and won't put up with any more shenanigans from MLSE.

ag futbol
01-08-2013, 10:40 AM
Hmm, here's an interesting quote from that article: "Still, the silent majority was interested in seeing what Mariner could conjour up in 2013."

Silent majority, really? Now we perhaps know what Larson's "sources" really were -- the voices in his own head?
Ah yes, the press coverage is starting to get interesting. All these guys are going to spin reasons why they weren't "wrong" but that we never actually got a chance to fully evaluate mariner etc...

Fact remains a seasoned MLS executive came in here, took one look at the guy and put him in the dirt.

veenstram
01-08-2013, 10:55 AM
Anyone have any insights on Fran O'Leary?
Seems like a smart pick to take a college coach who knows the NA style, but can't find much on his track record.

Ajax TFC
01-08-2013, 11:00 AM
Who's the ass hat who directly told nelsen that the online reaction was generally negative?

Technorgasm
01-08-2013, 11:07 AM
HE 's got one thing going for him.
He is used to being bottom of the league. .

wakka-wakka.

reggie
01-08-2013, 11:42 AM
Who's the ass hat who directly told nelsen that the online reaction was generally negative?

im not sure..but sounded like larsen,one of PMs pets...

Detroit_TFC
01-08-2013, 11:52 AM
The reaction on twitter was generally very negative. I'm a bit surprised it is not similarly so here.

Ajax TFC
01-08-2013, 12:07 PM
The reaction on twitter was generally very negative. I'm a bit surprised it is not similarly so here.
But still. "everyone online hates you already, what do you have to say about that?" How is that, in any world, a good question? How does it help in any way?

Yohan
01-08-2013, 12:07 PM
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ryan-nelsen-still-available-for-qpr-despite-being-named-toronto-fc-boss-8441988.html

Phil
01-08-2013, 12:32 PM
The reaction on twitter was generally very negative. I'm a bit surprised it is not similarly so here.

I think its called - comfortably numb.

OgtheDim
01-08-2013, 01:29 PM
Twitter doesn't do positive.

Ajax TFC
01-08-2013, 01:31 PM
To the complaints about them being unprepared for the media:

I thought that Payne and Nelsen answered the questions as best as they could (apart from the style of play). What are they supposed to do if the press wont accept those answers, and keep asking the same questions again and again. Do they want Nelsen to say that he's desperately trying to ditch his last place team to come to this last place team? They asked about his lack of experience, and he explained why that wasn't a problem. What else do you want him to say?

Mark in Ottawa
01-08-2013, 01:34 PM
HE 's got one thing going for him.
He is used to being bottom of the league. .
wakka-wakka.
As I mentioned in the "presser thread" it does feel a bit like groundhog day ... new season & new coach and all.
Seeing as he has been a player in MLS hopefully he won't suffer much of the same angst that John Carver did dealing with the league. As a new coach here's hoping that Kevin Payne can also help with the managerial duties which of course are a little different in MLS than in other leagues.

Belfast_Boy
01-08-2013, 01:35 PM
did I want mariner out? Yes
would I prefer and experienced manager? Yes
Have I built a successful football team? No
Has Payne built a successful football team? Yes

so far I've liked what KP has done. this was a bit weird but I'm willing to see where it goes. if it's in the toilet then I'm back in the business of calling them out. if it works then life is good.

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 01:44 PM
I am almost beyond words. This whole thing just keeps getting worse and worse. They have no idea how to instill confidence in their fans. Any hope that I had because of the hiring of Payne is gone.

I think this looks terrible. I hope it works out (obviously), but I really can't see things looking any worse for this team. Mind you, every time I say that they do something that looks worse so...

Technorgasm
01-08-2013, 01:46 PM
As I mentioned in the "presser thread" it does feel a bit like groundhog day ... new season & new coach and all.
Seeing as he has been a player in MLS hopefully he won't suffer much of the same angst that John Carver did dealing with the league. As a new coach here's hoping that Kevin Payne can also help with the managerial duties which of course are a little different in MLS than in other leagues.

Im all positive going forward. .
But any coach coming into this league has to be schooled on the SIGNIFICANT challenges they face with Caps space, pinternational players and thelike, and more so for Toronto given our current state and umm. . . hisotry.

With Pyne, we have a lot of that guidance, so its just the on field component that Nelsen will have to worry about.
or at least I hope that is the structure going forward.

winning solves all. . he wins ONE game in the first 9. . we are already ahead!
(sad to read that)

ensco
01-08-2013, 01:53 PM
Re Nelsen's lack of MLS knowledge/experience, which so many seem troubled by:

I find this criticism bizarre.

The fact that we historically never had one person in our management setup who really understood MLS, does not now mean that we need every person in our management setup to have these skills.

Understanding MLS is Payne's job.

ManUtd4ever
01-08-2013, 01:53 PM
The optics of this move are peculiar to say the least, but Payne rightfully deserves the benefit of the doubt regarding personnel decisions based on his track record. He must have known what the perception was going to be, and yet he identified his guy in Nelsen without interviewing any other candidates.

We'll know if he's an evil genius or not soon enough.

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 01:55 PM
I don't want to be negative, I am pretty tired of it believe it or not. But a few days ago when I may or may not have been thinking about what I want in a new coach, was any of this on my list?

- no experience
- no licenses
-still playing in a country 6 hours away
- still playing under a contract that could last well into May
- hired days before the Combine, SuperDraft and start of training camp
- is only vaguely aware of who is on the team, let alone who is in the league or in the works to join the league one day

I'm thinking no. That never occured to me as a good idea.

But hey! Payne has done this before (sort of) and Nelson is a grrrrrreat leader everyone!

No fucking problem. Everything is perfect. Let's go paint some super fucking positive banners.

Initial B
01-08-2013, 01:56 PM
Having just viewed the TFC video of the presser they posted, they edited out all the hostile questions. When viewed that way, the responses of the three at the front all seem reasonable. Of course that's their spin so take it with a grain of salt.

As for those who say trust in Payne, let's take a little trip down memory lane, MLSE style:

Feb 28, 2006 - Bryan Colangelo (former NBA executive of the Year - trust him!) is announced as President and GM of the Toronto Raptors, an improving NBA team. Team makes playoffs in 2007 and 2008. Then makes questionable trades and draft picks, fires coach the following year, and the team backslides into irrelevance, not making the playoffs since.

Nov 29, 2008 - Brian Burke (previous Stanley Cup winner - trust him!) is announced as GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs, a mediocre NHL team that had not made the playoffs the previous 3 years. Then makes questionable trades and draft picks, fires coach 4 years too late, and the team backslides into irrelevance, still not making the playoffs.

Nov 27, 2008 - Kevin Payne (previous multiple MLS Cup winner - trust him!) is announced as President and GM of Toronto FC, the worst team in the world and a team that has never made the playoffs. Fires coaching staff, makes questionable trades...

Why can't I get this tune out of my head:
"Next Verse, same as the first.
A little bit louder and a little bit worse!"

I'm sorry, but I don't trust anything or anyone that has anything to do with MLSE. It's guilt by association as the corporation taints and corrupts everything and everyone it comes into contact with, no matter what their previous level of success. That is all we have to look forward to.

ManUtd4ever
01-08-2013, 01:56 PM
For the record, Nelsen has extensive familiarity with the league as a former captain of DC United. It's obviously not coaching experience, but the notion that he is foreign to the nuances of MLS is inaccurate.

Torontotonto
01-08-2013, 01:58 PM
Cant wait to see our new manager coach, I mean play against Tottenham this weekend...lol

ensco
01-08-2013, 02:01 PM
I don't want to be negative, I am pretty tired of it believe it or not. But a few days ago when I may or may not have been thinking about what I want in a new coach, was any of this on my list?

- no experience
- no licenses
-still playing in a country 6 hours away
- still playing under a contract that could last well into May
- hired days before the Combine, SuperDraft and start of training camp
- is only vaguely aware of who is on the team, let alone who is in the league or in the works to join the league one day

I'm thinking no. That never occured to me as a good idea.

But hey! Payne has done this before (sort of) and Nelson is a grrrrrreat leader everyone!

No fucking problem. Everything is perfect. Let's go paint some super fucking positive banners.

Coaching experience - doesn't appear to matter in this league

Licenses - seriously? seriously? you think licences matter?

Still playing under contract - this is a negative, means we have to wait until April

Hired days before combine and draft - that stuff is all Payne's job anyway. btw on this topic, we are ripping DCU's face off here - we are getting the benefit of moves he was working on for months there (first Peralta, now this), and of course we get the full benefit of DCU's scouting for the draft

Vaguely aware of who is on the team or in the league - you mean compared to Preki? - OK this is a mild negative, but if he's a good coach it won't matter

Summary: yes, you are being ridiculously negative. I said this elsewhere when this rumour surfaced, it wouldn't matter whop replaced Mariner, anyone other than Dominic Kinnear was going to be crucified by public opinion

v00d00daddy
01-08-2013, 02:02 PM
I have faith in Payne but I find it odd that they've hired a coach who's never been a coach before and who will continue to play this year at QPR for who knows how long.


"Getting out the English Premier League has major financial implications and there is a lot of pressure from fans, the media and so on, so I have an obligation."They would like me to keep playing but we have to sit down and talk. If we can get five straight wins, that'd be perfect.

"I think then we can shake hands [and part company] but we are just going to have to talk and see how things progress."


Shouldn't our new coach be focused on being our new coach...especially when it's the first time he's been a coach?

This club never does anything the logical way, do they? LOL

ensco
01-08-2013, 02:12 PM
I have no idea whether Nelsen will work out, but I think people really don't understand where managing TFC ranks in world football.

You want a guy to start tomorrow? You can have that by, say, bringing in someone who was just fired in the Swiss second division.

I am glad Nelsen is the type of guy who is honouring his contractual obligation to his team, and his moral obligation to QPR supporters.

If this is who Payne wants, fine, the cost is he starts late, we'll all remember that if Nelsen fails.

Nelsen is by any standard a reasonable candidate for coach of TFC, given that Payne is fully responsible for cap management, college and pro scouting.

I support Payne's judgment on this.

ag futbol
01-08-2013, 02:16 PM
They just framed everything the wrong way in the press conference. Payne blundered off the top by not stating what the situation was and attaching uncertainty to his start date. If they had just come out and said "he'll be available at the end of the EPL season and O'Leary holding down the fort until then" we all would have been a little put off by the late start date but more accepting I'm sure. At the same time they might have known privately he could join sooner, but by giving the late date they are taking pressure off themselves. The way that wasn't defined off the top and then Nelsen sort of circled around to it in his introduction is really what put everyone off, more than anything.

That being said, if we look past all the crap, we should be realistic about what we are getting. I think part of the negativity is that this guy left the league five years ago and we aren't as familiar with him. If he was doing what he does for QPR in MLS I think it's obvious his name would come up as a candidate given the dynamics of the MLS environment today. Picture TFC naming Kasey Keller their coach or someone of similar stature. Clearly this guy has that draw to him where people really respect his leadership.

Ultra & Proud
01-08-2013, 02:16 PM
I have faith in Payne but I find it odd that they've hired a coach who's never been a coach before and who will continue to play this year at QPR for who knows how long.




Shouldn't our new coach be focused on being our new coach...especially when it's the first time he's been a coach?

This club never does anything the logical way, do they? LOL

Or maybe they just have to word things in this manner as Nelsen is still under contract with QPR. Perhaps when all the paper work is done QPR will release him and he will join us before the season starts or maybe he isn't a douchebag and feels he owes his club the respect to honor his contract and not bail out when things are going south. Especially when he is the vice captain. You really want a guy managing the club who would have a track record of bailing out when things get tough?

Toronto_Bhoy
01-08-2013, 02:21 PM
For what it's worth, here's the NewsNow feed on what the World is saying:

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/Football/Premier+League/QPR/Defenders/Ryan+Nelsen

Oldtimer
01-08-2013, 02:28 PM
I'm with ensco here. I've followed DC since 2005, and I trust Payne's judgement. Sure it's high risk, but if he's the next Nowak or Kreis, we'll be signing Payne's praise.

As far as hiring someone fired from the powerhouse Swiss second division: we wouldn't even get that on the open market. Montreal has a way better reputation, both as a club and as a place to live than TFC as a club and Toronto does.

PopePouri
01-08-2013, 02:31 PM
Kristian Jack has a neat take on the whole thing:

http://4-2-3-1.com/2013/01/08/toronto-fc-finally-singing-from-the-same-hymn-sheet-with-hiring-of-nelsen-firing-of-mariner/

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 02:31 PM
Coaching experience - doesn't appear to matter in this league

Licenses - seriously? seriously? you think licences matter?

Still playing under contract - this is a negative, means we have to wait until April

Hired days before combine and draft - that stuff is all Payne's job anyway. btw on this topic, we are ripping DCU's face off here - we are getting the benefit of moves he was working on for months there (first Peralta, now this), and of course we get the full benefit of DCU's scouting for the draft

Vaguely aware of who is on the team or in the league - you mean compared to Preki? - OK this is a mild negative, but if he's a good coach it won't matter

Summary: yes, you are being ridiculously negative. I said this elsewhere when this rumour surfaced, it wouldn't matter whop replaced Mariner, anyone other than Dominic Kinnear was going to be crucified by public opinion

Coaching experience - doesn't appear to matter in this league <---- wow, just wow. For a team whose fans have no confidence what better way to inspire them than by living by this idea. (insert sarcasm emoticon here)

Licenses - seriously? seriously? you think licences matter? <---- You are right. It is better that he has no licenses or training. (insert sarcasm emoticon here)

Vaguely aware of who is on the team or in the league - you mean compared to Preki? <---- No, I did not mean to compare him to anyone, where did you get that idea? More to the point: Nelson has been gone for 7+ years!!!

I never said I wasn't going to be negative. I said I am sick of being negative. I took a break after they hired Payne because I had this weird feeling. I called it hope. I seem to have lost that feeling again. How can you look at this situation and even suggest that it is good, ideal, whatever?

I will concede that one by one my points in the post that you quoted are not that damaging, but althogether they paint a pretty dismal picture.

Of course I 'hope' everything works out nicely for him. And I will support him. But this looks terrible. The 'optics' are terrible. There is nothing positive about this move right now. Let's hope that is proved wrong.

notthesun
01-08-2013, 02:43 PM
Payne has shown me enough so far that I'm willing to trust him. But this makes me nervous.

What if O'Leary leads the team to something like a 7-2-1 record before Nelsen arrives? Should we just keep O'Leary as coach? What if Nelsen arrives and does worse than O'Leary? What if O'Leary takes 10 games to get a point? Nelsen takes over a defeated team like Mariner did?

Then again, it could go well: Nelsen arrives and outperforms O'Leary and everyone's happy.

Or does it even matter? In Payne's mind, is 2013 a complete and total write-off?

It's just so odd. It's a huge risk to start a season naming a coach who won't even be coaching the team. I don't know. I don't care about Nelsen not being there for the combine or draft (those were always gonna be Payne's shows... people seem to forget his title is also General Manager in addition to President). I'm gonna go with it for now, but this places some doubt in my mind about Payne whereas last night I was pretty much driving the bandwagon.

jloome
01-08-2013, 02:43 PM
I have no idea whether Nelsen will work out, but I think people really don't understand where managing TFC ranks in world football.

You want a guy to start tomorrow? You can have that by, say, bringing in someone who was just fired in the Swiss second division.

I am glad Nelsen is the type of guy who is honouring his contractual obligation to his team, and his moral obligation to QPR supporters.

If this is who Payne wants, fine, the cost is he starts late, we'll all remember that if Nelsen fails.

Nelsen is by any standard a reasonable candidate for coach of TFC, given that Payne is fully responsible for cap management, college and pro scouting.

I support Payne's judgment on this.

People need to wrap their heads around the fact that Payne is a Euro-style Manager, not a GM. He's setting the team up his way, with his tactics, then finding a motivator to run it, exactly as he did with D.C. United and Olsen. Why do people think he was going after multiple players before even hiring the coach? Because it's his team.

It could be a good system. I'm optimistic about the whole thing.

tfcleeds
01-08-2013, 02:45 PM
Cant wait to see our new manager coach, I mean play against Tottenham this weekend...lolMaybe we should be hoping he gets injured? ;)

Greatest Ripoff
01-08-2013, 02:46 PM
Licenses - seriously? seriously? you think licences matter? <---- You are right. It is better that he has no licenses or training. (insert sarcasm emoticon here)

And how well did it work for these guys who had no coaching licence?

Sam Allardyce
Jimmy Armfield
Steve Clark
Sir Alex Ferguson
George Graham
Glenn Hoddle
Roy Hodgson
Kevin Keegan
Colin Murphy
Martin O'Neill
David Pleat
Harry Redknapp
Sir Bobby Robson
Walter Smith
Graeme Souness
Graham Turner
Graham Taylor
Terry Venables
Neil Warnock

And Nelsen was an assistant coach in the NCAA at 21 years of age as he pointed out in the presser.

cmonyoureds
01-08-2013, 02:49 PM
I'm not sure this is how you want to impress us with a first quote:

I’m extremely excited to be here,” Nelsen said. “As soon as Toronto FC went into the league, looking from afar I admired the way the club was handled off the field, the passion that the fans had. It was a shining light in a way in how a club should run.”

Oldtimer
01-08-2013, 02:52 PM
^^ and we once had a coach with licenses and experience in MLS.

However, few would want Preki back.

tfcleeds
01-08-2013, 02:53 PM
Or maybe they just have to word things in this manner as Nelsen is still under contract with QPR. Perhaps when all the paper work is done QPR will release him and he will join us before the season starts or maybe he isn't a douchebag and feels he owes his club the respect to honor his contract and not bail out when things are going south. Especially when he is the vice captain. You really want a guy managing the club who would have a track record of bailing out when things get tough?I still think there is a lot to this. Or maybe I'm reading way too much into some of Redknapp's comments, but he certainly seemed to suggest that he wouldn't stand in Nelsen's way if he wanted to leave ASAP. There's still a long way to go in the transfer window - there could be further developments yet.

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 02:59 PM
And how well did it work for these guys who had no coaching licence?

Sam Allardyce
Jimmy Armfield
Steve Clark
Sir Alex Ferguson
George Graham
Glenn Hoddle
Roy Hodgson
Kevin Keegan
Colin Murphy
Martin O'Neill
David Pleat
Harry Redknapp
Sir Bobby Robson
Walter Smith
Graeme Souness
Graham Turner
Graham Taylor
Terry Venables
Neil Warnock

And Nelsen was an assistant coach in the NCAA at 21 years of age as he pointed out in the presser.

This is ridiculous. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I'm talking about the optics of this hiring. Read my posts again a little bit closer.

I give up.

Edit: I took out the cheerleaders bit. Helacious logic seems to be ok, but not name calling intended to summarize those opinions.

Phil
01-08-2013, 02:59 PM
As Kevin Payne would say - Hope is not a strategy.

Ajax TFC
01-08-2013, 03:05 PM
I'm not sure this is how you want to impress us with a first quote:

I’m extremely excited to be here,” Nelsen said. “As soon as Toronto FC went into the league, looking from afar I admired the way the club was handled off the field, the passion that the fans had. It was a shining light in a way in how a club should run.”


It's the management that he has to impress more than the fans. He can't say that the club was run badly, since the people who oversaw it then, still oversee the workings of the club.

Strikers
01-08-2013, 03:05 PM
We all know that the assistant coaches do most of the work when training with players and that the manager just manages.

This looks to me like a Pinball Clemons type of situation, former player who has resepect of his fellow players and can push the right
buttons to get them to perform. Pinball lacked support from the argos the last couple of seasons and started to falter when Adam Rita signed Kerry Joseph when Clemons was happy with Bishop at QB.

The key here is that Payne will support Nelsen and that the assistant coach O'leary has the background to succeed and help Nelsen. I think we might have the right guy in Nelsen at the top and would like to see an additional experienced coach added, I mentioned Dichio earlier in this thread he could be a perfect fit.

pekduck
01-08-2013, 03:12 PM
This is ridiculous. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I'm talking about the optics of this hiring. Read my posts again a little bit closer.

I give up. Cheer on, cheerleaders.

I think it's easy for the Internet comments to be taken out of context and polarized to one extreme or the other.

Speaking from hiring best practices in my industry, what we look for is success factors. Or the key competency an individual posses that enables him/her to be successful at the prospective position within the organization. The presence and confirmation of they key competencies drive the hiring decision. Experience, licenses, certifications, past results and other quantitative measurement are the means to validate the presence of said key competencies, not the prerequisite of a so called qualified candidate.

Each attribute information (experience, license, certification, past result, etc) are individually necessary but insufficient to make a conclusion. A holistic assessment is preferred, a checklist approach (sadly, the norm these days by HR practitioners...) is just naive.

Back to topic at hand... I have no idea if Kevin Payne saw what he deems to be sufficient to hire Ryan Nelson, but since we are the outsiders looking in, we can never know the full picture but hope for the best.

brad
01-08-2013, 03:12 PM
This was posted in the other thread - but I'll repost:

Jason Kreis ‏@JasonKreis (https://twitter.com/JasonKreis) @AlexiLalas (https://twitter.com/AlexiLalas) From one with USSF "A" License: it does not matter! Welcome to Ryan Nelsen - and good luck!

Greatest Ripoff
01-08-2013, 03:15 PM
This is ridiculous. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I'm talking about the optics of this hiring. Read my posts again a little bit closer.

I give up. Cheer on, cheerleaders.

It's not about being a cheerleader it about giving him a bloody chance. He hasn't even coached 1 second and you are already writing him off. Watch a few games and get back to me. What is the point if you aren't even going to give him a chance?

Yohan
01-08-2013, 03:15 PM
mlssoccer.com articles

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/08/nelsens-qpr-duties-force-novel-managerial-set-toronto
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/08/tfcs-payne-explains-why-he-replaced-mariner-nelsen
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/08/kick-toronto-fc-clean-house-coaching-carousel-spins

Phil
01-08-2013, 03:16 PM
This is ridiculous. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I'm talking about the optics of this hiring. Read my posts again a little bit closer.

I give up. Cheer on, cheerleaders.

Lets not start down the road of - if everyone doesn't agree with you then call them cheerleaders bullcrap please.

I get it, you are upset. Give it a few hours and we will all even out, some of the more positive will get a little negative. Some of the negative guys will get a little more positive. This board always seems to find that middle ground.

notthesun
01-08-2013, 03:30 PM
Molinaro on The Fan talking about Nelsen and TFC on Tim and Sid. Live now (http://player.rogersradio.ca/cjcl/on_air).

tfcleeds
01-08-2013, 03:31 PM
Does anyone know where we can access the presser in its entirety, the non-edited version? Or at least a transcript of it?

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 03:35 PM
It's not about being a cheerleader it about giving him a bloody chance. He hasn't even coached 1 second and you are already writing him off. Watch a few games and get back to me. What is the point if you aren't even going to give him a chance?

Christ almighty. I am not writing him off. I never did. That would be dumb, as he has not done anything yet (or will for some time!). Where did I say I was writing him off? I was pointing out that the 'optics' or the 'look' of this hire is atrocious. This team has a 6+ year history of asking us to have faith. I find it amazing that people still do. For me, I now need results.

Red I
01-08-2013, 03:35 PM
I still think there is a lot to this. Or maybe I'm reading way too much into some of Redknapp's comments, but he certainly seemed to suggest that he wouldn't stand in Nelsen's way if he wanted to leave ASAP. There's still a long way to go in the transfer window - there could be further developments yet.

Redknapp might not stand in the way, but the owner (who holds his contract) obviously is standing in his way.

Sullivan
01-08-2013, 03:39 PM
Anyone have any insights on Fran O'Leary?
Seems like a smart pick to take a college coach who knows the NA style, but can't find much on his track record.

My middle son played against Dartmouth while O'Leary was their coach.
Also had opportunity to see O'Leary's efforts when he was head guyat GMU.

He was fired both times for good reason.

Sorry, I just can't find an upside here.

Phil
01-08-2013, 03:41 PM
Christ almighty. I am not writing him off. I never did. That would be dumb, as he has not done anything yet (or will for some time!). Where did I say I was writing him off? I was pointing out that the 'optics' or the 'look' of this hire is atrocious. This team has a 6+ year history of asking us to have faith. I find it amazing that people still do. For me, I now need results.

I havent had time to watch it all, but I agree. Begging for faith and whatnot is a story that has been long played and overused by past coaches. Time to take a different approach on it. I don't have a constructive suggestion but I do understand peoples frustration with hearing the same lines for 7 years now.

notthesun
01-08-2013, 03:42 PM
Well, reading quotes from Nelsen at the press conference gives me the impression he's keen to work something out with QPR so that he can get here in time for First Kick.

"At the moment, I’m under contract for QPR and they’re in a difficult situation, aren’t we?" Nelsen said. "And I have to respect Harry and Tony [Fernandes, club owner] and we’ll be talking obviously when I get back. At the moment that’s all I can really say.


"Obviously, they’d like me to keep playing, but they understand my situation as well," continued Nelsen. "So we just have to sit down and talk. If we can win five straight, that'd be perfect and we can shake hands. We’re going to have to talk and see how things progress."

Hopefully they can in fact work something out, Nelsen will be here in time for the start of the season and this will just be remembered as a poorly-timed and poorly-executed press conference rather than a terrible decision.

Gazza_55
01-08-2013, 03:47 PM
I don't want to be negative, I am pretty tired of it believe it or not. But a few days ago when I may or may not have been thinking about what I want in a new coach, was any of this on my list?

- no experience
- no licenses
-still playing in a country 6 hours away
- still playing under a contract that could last well into May
- hired days before the Combine, SuperDraft and start of training camp
- is only vaguely aware of who is on the team, let alone who is in the league or in the works to join the league one day

I'm thinking no. That never occured to me as a good idea.

But hey! Payne has done this before (sort of) and Nelson is a grrrrrreat leader everyone!

No fucking problem. Everything is perfect. Let's go paint some super fucking positive banners.


You lost me at this.

They mean squat.

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 03:47 PM
Lets not start down the road of - if everyone doesn't agree with you then call them cheerleaders bullcrap please.

I get it, you are upset. Give it a few hours and we will all even out, some of the more positive will get a little negative. Some of the negative guys will get a little more positive. This board always seems to find that middle ground.

I did not address my comment to 'everyone' who didn't agree with me. I am not sure where you read that. I addressed it to those who offered fallacious logic to attack only parts of my position and to defend what is optically a terrible idea. I have removed the offending sentence as I think my point has been made.

Phil
01-08-2013, 03:49 PM
I did not address my comment to 'everyone' who didn't agree with me. I am not sure where you read that. I addressed it to those who offered fallacious logic to attack only parts of my position and to defend what is optically a terrible idea. I have removed the offending sentence as I think my point has been made.

Sorry, didn't mean to read into it, but its been used that way in the past. My bad.

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 03:50 PM
You lost me at this.

They mean squat.

Is is better that they don't have them? In other words is a professional coach better off for having had no formal training in coaching?

Stress
01-08-2013, 03:52 PM
haha wow the drama is thick in here. I'll admit, I haven't seen the presser but I'm still positive about this move. As Ensco (I believe) pointed out, it seems like Nelsen is showing a great deal of respect to QPR (by either seeing out his contract or handling his contract situation before publicly declaring a start date) and I think that's a characteristic some of our past coaches could have shown more of. I find it hard to believe a guy at his age would travel to NA and back for this presser and then will start on Saturday against Tottenham (early kick off to boot) but I guess if they don't have many options they'll be forced to do it. Will be interesting to see if he retires and joins us earlier than most are thinking.

If I read correctly, he was named Captain of Blackburn 6 months after joining the team from the MLS. That to me seems unique and looks like a good sign in regards to this guys leadership qualities.

McBrace
01-08-2013, 03:52 PM
My middle son played against Dartmouth while O'Leary was their coach.
Also had opportunity to see O'Leary's efforts when he was head guyat GMU.

He was fired both times for good reason.

Sorry, I just can't find an upside here.

Care to share those good reasons?

tfcleeds
01-08-2013, 03:53 PM
My middle son played against Dartmouth while O'Leary was their coach.Also had opportunity to see O'Leary's efforts when he was head guyat GMU.He was fired both times for good reason. Sorry, I just can't find an upside here.I follow a lot of US college sports, and even I've never heard of Bowdoin College, where he's been the last 7 years. I'm sure he would come in handy when it comes to identifying talent at the college level, but yeesh - you'd think Payne's Rolodex would be slightly more extensive than to grab some guy who's been toiling away in obscurity the last few years. But I suppose if I can trust Payne is making the right decision with Nelsen, I can extend that to the hiring of this guy.

Red CB Toronto
01-08-2013, 04:04 PM
It seems like he found some success at his last coaching stop. I know it is D3 but is there a lot of difference is gauging a coaches skills if it were at a D3 level vs. a major D1 school.

burlington Red
01-08-2013, 04:25 PM
To the complaints about them being unprepared for the media:

I thought that Payne and Nelsen answered the questions as best as they could (apart from the style of play). What are they supposed to do if the press wont accept those answers, and keep asking the same questions again and again. Do they want Nelsen to say that he's desperately trying to ditch his last place team to come to this last place team? They asked about his lack of experience, and he explained why that wasn't a problem. What else do you want him to say?


Good post. The lack of experience issue is a strange one. We are the worst club in mls history, we are the type of club people start at, where they get that experience. If we were some team regulary making playoffs and finals and we hired a novice then sure I'd be a bit miffed. Coaching aspect will not be an issue for him ie tactics etc. I don't think for one minute though that he will stay with QPR past Jan transfer window. Old 'arry at QPR will be wheeling and dealing and I think an agreement for early release from his contract will prevail. Payne obviously likes what he sees in Nelson and has moved quickly to snap him up. I am happy enough with developments

ag futbol
01-08-2013, 04:31 PM
More than anything else, we're hiring this guy because he's Nelsen's right-hand man. Clearly he's ready made to be his assistant given the close nature of their relationship.

Honestly, if I look back on the history of this team:

problem #1 - not enough talent

problem #2 - coaching...

#1 is addressed through Kevin Payne. The days of us complaining about First Wave and Santio sports are over. We have a real GM, with real contacts, who isn't going to have blinders on when it comes to signing talent. It might take time to recover, but I have confidence it will work out.

#2 was often made to seem worse by #1. If we take the lack-of-talent component out of the equation I think we actually had a coach or two who was capable of doing the job. When coaching has really been an issue for this team it's been because the manager is has his own agenda / isn't getting along with people or is so tactically inflexible that the team is falling on it's sword.

So basically what I'm saying is, what were asking of Nelsen and O'Leary is very doable. Train the team, keep them professional, organized, and motivated. Don't think this requires the coach of the year, do think it requires people working together. Rest of it should work itself out.

reggie
01-08-2013, 04:32 PM
what do u guys expect from most of the assclowns that cover this team,they couldnt find or break a story with a search party...
the fact that PM is gone is best news ive heard all day...

nfitz
01-08-2013, 04:37 PM
They mean squat.They might have stopped the stuff happening that Philadelphia Union revealed after they fired one of Payne's previous no-qualification hires:

Ex-MLS Coach Accused Of Hazing And Endangering Players Is Suing For Wrongful Termination (http://www.businessinsider.com/mls-coach-peter-nowak-fired-for-alleged-hazing-2012-7)

... demonstrating gross negligence, including putting the health and safety of Team players at risk by requiring injured players to participate in strenuous training activities, not allowing players to have water during such activities despite temperatures in excess of 80 degrees, ignoring the advice of the head athletic trainer regarding which players are healthy enough to play in games and participate in training sessions and creating an atmosphere where medical issues should be hid from medical staff and not treated ... (http://www.businessinsider.com/mls-coach-peter-nowak-fired-for-alleged-hazing-2012-7)

That all sounds like really basic stuff that you should have learned not to do before being made a big league head coach. Fortunately Nelsen seems to be a far more sensible person than Nowak, so perhaps a non-issue really. But there's reasons one has minimum qualifications, and it's not to ignore them at the first opportunity. I'm concerned about Payne's poor track-record on this issue previously.

reggie
01-08-2013, 04:45 PM
a ahole is a ahole,a piece of paper wont change that...wow where is this stuff coming from...people PM IS GONE.

ensco
01-08-2013, 04:52 PM
Is is better that they don't have them? In other words is a professional coach better off for having had no formal training in coaching?

I genuinely don't think these types of widely-available credentials matter. They're actually a detriment, because they confuse the issue: people pass these courses/exams solely because they're good at memorizing stuff, not because they understand the material or exhibit good judgment.

I have 20+ years of experience in hiring, and working with people, in the securities industry. In Canada, you have to write exams (the Canadian Securities Course) to receive credentials to be a broker. There are a whole series of tougher courses for options brokers etc, some of these take more than a year of real work to get.

I can say with absolute certainty that there is zero correlation between capability in investing, and having taken those courses, and that having taken courses like these has zero value in the job market.

jloome
01-08-2013, 05:01 PM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/08/tfcs-payne-nelsen-has-made-study-leadership

More from Payne on why he likes Nelsen.

ensco
01-08-2013, 05:10 PM
They might have stopped the stuff happening that Philadelphia Union revealed after they fired one of Payne's previous no-qualification hires:
....
I'm concerned about Payne's poor track-record on this issue previously.

Severance lawsuits are always ugly. This could easily be a variation of the "he played on the internet all day" accusation often used by companies to weasel out of severance obligations. If he really didn't let them have water, wow .....

If you are saying that they accusations against Nowak somehow reflect on Payne, I would need to know a lot more, but the correct assumption is that this is not the case. Nowak was a successful coach in MLS. The allegations are unproven, and employers will say damn near anything to save a million bucks, in my experience. So until a player confirms the water story (I searched, not one has), or Philly wins in court, it's not fair to bring it up.

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 05:11 PM
I genuinely don't think these types of widely-available credentials matter. They're actually a detriment, because they confuse the issue: people pass these courses/exams solely because they're good at memorizing stuff, not because they understand the material or exhibit good judgment.

I have 20+ years of experience in hiring, and working with people, in the securities industry. In Canada, you have to write exams (the Canadian Securities Course) to receive credentials to be a broker. There are a whole series of tougher courses for options brokers etc, some of these take more than a year of real work to get.

I can say with absolute certainty that there is zero correlation between capability in investing, and having taken those courses, and that having taken courses like these has zero value in the job market.

Good point Ensco. My point is that when you look at the list I presented of problems with this hire, if you could point at one of them it and say that its not a problem it would help with the presentation. My point is that he has nothing to offer on paper other than good leadership testimonials. The hiring would have been easier to stomach if he had something good to point at.

The licenses won't make a coach good, but they wouldn't hurt either. As you noticed they weren't my only point but as part of a larger list of problems they are a cog in that wheel.

phonzo
01-08-2013, 05:17 PM
They might have stopped the stuff happening that Philadelphia Union revealed after they fired one of Payne's previous no-qualification hires:

Ex-MLS Coach Accused Of Hazing And Endangering Players Is Suing For Wrongful Termination (http://www.businessinsider.com/mls-coach-peter-nowak-fired-for-alleged-hazing-2012-7)

... demonstrating gross negligence, including putting the health and safety of Team players at risk by requiring injured players to participate in strenuous training activities, not allowing players to have water during such activities despite temperatures in excess of 80 degrees, ignoring the advice of the head athletic trainer regarding which players are healthy enough to play in games and participate in training sessions and creating an atmosphere where medical issues should be hid from medical staff and not treated ... (http://www.businessinsider.com/mls-coach-peter-nowak-fired-for-alleged-hazing-2012-7)

That all sounds like really basic stuff that you should have learned not to do before being made a big league head coach. Fortunately Nelsen seems to be a far more sensible person than Nowak, so perhaps a non-issue really. But there's reasons one has minimum qualifications, and it's not to ignore them at the first opportunity. I'm concerned about Payne's poor track-record on this issue previously.

Nowak was an egomaniac that no one saw coming to be fair - if I recall most in philly were pretty satisfied when he got on board. Then when he started tearing the team apart *cough preki style cough* and the rest of his ego shown through it was an omfg.

Olsen has worked out pretty well though :)

Yohan
01-08-2013, 05:21 PM
So far the best part of Nelsen hiring is that it completely stole the thunder from Montreal unveiling their manager. Suck it Saputo :p

ag futbol
01-08-2013, 05:28 PM
They might have stopped the stuff happening that Philadelphia Union revealed after they fired one of Payne's previous no-qualification hires:

Ex-MLS Coach Accused Of Hazing And Endangering Players Is Suing For Wrongful Termination (http://www.businessinsider.com/mls-coach-peter-nowak-fired-for-alleged-hazing-2012-7)

... demonstrating gross negligence, including putting the health and safety of Team players at risk by requiring injured players to participate in strenuous training activities, not allowing players to have water during such activities despite temperatures in excess of 80 degrees, ignoring the advice of the head athletic trainer regarding which players are healthy enough to play in games and participate in training sessions and creating an atmosphere where medical issues should be hid from medical staff and not treated ... (http://www.businessinsider.com/mls-coach-peter-nowak-fired-for-alleged-hazing-2012-7)

That all sounds like really basic stuff that you should have learned not to do before being made a big league head coach. Fortunately Nelsen seems to be a far more sensible person than Nowak, so perhaps a non-issue really. But there's reasons one has minimum qualifications, and it's not to ignore them at the first opportunity. I'm concerned about Payne's poor track-record on this issue previously.
Not sure if this is an attempt at trolling but I’m going in head-first after the bait.

First, if you’re going to describe Kevin Payne’s hiring practices as anything at least look at the whole track record rather than reaching for specious data points. Even the guy you’re going after for being under qualified was pretty successful during his time at DC. Start to finish at worst the track record is average, more realistically it’s admirable.

Second, in high performance cultures it is common to fire people. Unfortunately, it’s also not unheard of that employers trump up some pretty nasty reasons not to pay severance. The players didn’t get water when it was hot out? He asked some people to play through pain? He got after some people in training? Does this in any way sound like things that happen often in sports that have now been trumped up and exaggerated? I’ll bet you a small mint it settles out of court and they drop the counter suit. Meaning: they know they fired him because the team was losing / to save money and not because he was a crazy psychopath who was putting people in danger. Hope you never get involved in one of these, they are not fun. The stuff they are trying to pin on Nowak is light compared to other stories I’ve heard. All in the name of egos and saving a few bucks.

So please, don't make these arguments about this guy putting people in danger in because he didn't have a license. You were able to point out those *unproven* things in the lawsuit were bad, did you need a coaching license to do that?

ensco
01-08-2013, 05:31 PM
So far the best part of Nelsen hiring is that it completely stole the thunder from Montreal unveiling their manager. Suck it Saputo :p

It's too bad. We would have had more fun with them hiring "The Swiss Volcano" from the second division, who has had 6 jobs, and not once lasted a year.

Richard
01-08-2013, 05:41 PM
Im not sure if we should be worried but Nelsen is under contract until june. Would QPR let him retire then coach? Its not uncommon for there to be compensation for manager/coach moving to another club. QPR have every right to not let him move as a player untill June. If he retires, the quick hire by TFC could open up some leagal problems, QPR may demand compensation. He is playing very well in the EPL at the moment, thats something which cant be underestimated even at his age.

Sources:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ryan-nelson-quits-qpr-to-become-manager-of-toronto-fc-8442598.html

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=413067

AdamAM
01-08-2013, 05:43 PM
Is anyone else really excited to see this guys influence on Henry and Gale? A CB of his pedigree has gotta have some knowledge to share, especially considering that they both have amazing potential and could use a true professionals help :)

reggie
01-08-2013, 05:57 PM
i dont
Is anyone else really excited to see this guys influence on Henry and Gale? A CB of his pedigree has gotta have some knowledge to share, especially considering that they both have amazing potential and could use a true professionals help :)
i really dont like that idea...he doesnt have a coaching badge yet...:facepalm:

bgnewf
01-08-2013, 06:04 PM
The most strident critics of this team wanted three things when last season ended:

1) A cut in prices of season seats to reward fans for loyalty and to at least partially apologize for shite product on the field - Check
2) A president who knew soccer and was not named Ton An$elmi - Check
3) A new coach - Check.... The only thing not fully completed is when Nelsen will start!

So 2.75 out of three.... not too bad if you ask me.

Is it ideal that Nelsen is heading back to London and not to his new office to start working? And for that matter that the cunt of cunts 'Arry fucking Redknapp (CUNT!!!) will partially have a say in the immediate future of our club? Of course not. But I think we soon forget that most if not all of what we all probably wanted to take place during this off season has or is about to take place.

A lot of the dead wood has been chopped. Some reinforcements have arrived and more are to follow. Nelsen by all accounts is a solid citizen who could very well turn into a spectacular coach... or not... who knows, but for many he is definitely one thing... he is not Paul Mariner.

The timing of this decision can be questioned and the relative lack of experience of the new staff is definitely something that can be questioned as well, as I am sure it will.

But this bleating about the "shit show" that is TFC I think is a bit overblown, at least in this case. I truly feel that Kevin Payne would not choose to open himself up to the criticism he is getting from many quarters today about the hiring of Nelsen and the ongoing QPR thing if he truly did not feel that he was the right guy for the job. I don't think he has gone insane for that matter or that the water pipes at BMO Field have lead in them or anything leading him to get nuttier by the day! I think he was fully prepared to take it on the chin today (as he certainly did) because this is the guy he wants.

But to get Nelsen we end up have to play into some of the stereotypes our team has acquired for itself during those dark dark "An$elmi years"

Mr. Bigby
01-08-2013, 06:16 PM
Okay, so the guy doesn't have his coaching certificates. On the other hand, K.P. seems to indicate that he has qualities and knowledge that a lot of 'certified' coaches wish they had!
See http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/08/tfcs-payne-nelsen-has-made-study-leadership

On the whole, I'm willing to give K.P - with his past track record of success - the benefit of the doubt. (If we're voting on the flavour of Kool-Aid, by the way, I'm for Cherry...)

nfitz
01-08-2013, 06:24 PM
First, if you’re going to describe Kevin Payne’s hiring practices as anything at least look at the whole track record rather than reaching for specious data points.I believe I tackled that in another thread. I was merely raising the possibility that perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to ignore the lack of basic qualifications, given a previous example of this by the same person.

That said, if Nelson can get out of QPR sooner than later, and if he shows as much promise as those like Redknapp and Payne have shown in him, perhaps we have a chance of fielding a competitive MLS team, for the first time, in a year or so. However, the way this is going so far, does give me concern. Perhaps not as much concern as the start of the season under Winter and the end under Mariner, but it does raise a warning sign.

I'm also concerned that with such a green rookie, that people will be quick to start complaining only 10-15 games into the season, if it's another poor start, when really this is something we need to wait out until mid-2014 or early 2015 to watch. Though given that the ship has already sailed, I'm going to have to jump on board at some point and drink the kool aid. I find it ironic though that I of all people am the one hesitating to drink the kool aid yet again ...

ensco
01-08-2013, 06:54 PM
I believe I tackled that in another thread. I was merely raising the possibility that perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to ignore the lack of basic qualifications, given a previous example of this by the same person.

That said, if Nelson can get out of QPR sooner than later, and if he shows as much promise as those like Redknapp and Payne have shown in him, perhaps we have a chance of fielding a competitive MLS team, for the first time, in a year or so. However, the way this is going so far, does give me concern. Perhaps not as much concern as the start of the season under Winter and the end under Mariner, but it does raise a warning sign.

I'm also concerned that with such a green rookie, that people will be quick to start complaining only 10-15 games into the season, if it's another poor start, when really this is something we need to wait out until mid-2014 or early 2015 to watch. Though given that the ship has already sailed, I'm going to have to jump on board at some point and drink the kool aid. I find it ironic though that I of all people am the one hesitating to drink the kool aid yet again ...

This is beyond absurd. Nowak's qualification for the Philly job was that he had coached an MLS champion! If Philly's allegations are true, and I can't find one player (or anybody at all) supporting the allegations, that story only proves that qualifications are worthless! It's just a cautionary tale about assuming anything about credentials and qualifications (as well as the virulence of severance lawsuits) and supports exactly the opposite of the point you think you are making!

Whatever point you think you are trying to make with the Nowak thing, it just feels to me like a low blow at both Nowak and Payne.

Yagbod
01-08-2013, 06:58 PM
^ Watch out!!! If you don't drink the kool aid people only read one sentence out of five that you write.

Edit: this was for nfitz post prior to ensco's.

ensco
01-08-2013, 07:02 PM
And why does anyone think supporters will be less reasonable towards someone with less experience? What is that based on? I can pretty much guarantee you that if TFC are 500 in June, people will be over the moon, and if they're 3-8, a significant faction will want Nelsen (and maybe Payne) fired.

ag futbol
01-08-2013, 07:15 PM
I'm also concerned that with such a green rookie, that people will be quick to start complaining only 10-15 games into the season, if it's another poor start, when really this is something we need to wait out until mid-2014 or early 2015 to watch
Well personally I was already resigned to the poor start, regardless of who is in charge. I think everyone will reluctantly come to that conclusion given the characteristics of our roster. Peralta signing notwithstanding, we need to replace pretty much all of our midfield and actually hit the target doing it. Between that and hoping Hassli stays healthy early / Koevermans comes back late.. I think it's inevitable that it will be a long year.

FluSH
01-08-2013, 07:43 PM
Good post by BGnewf there...

ouderwien
01-08-2013, 08:01 PM
New crazy idea: Let Frings finish his contract out as a player/coach until Nelsen is back.

CoachGT
01-08-2013, 08:19 PM
Just throwing my two cents in.

I'm okay with bringing in Nelsen. Not a bad move. And I presume something happened to force this to a head much quicker than TFC anticipated. But they still had a little time to get things straight before meeting the press, so the soap opera that is TFC continues, at least in that regard.

My issue is not with that, not necessarily with having a reverse coaching situation (normally the interim comes after a move is made, not as a placeholder until the new guy arrives). I can live with that if he's the right guy. And I have no issue about his credentials - they will come, and as long as there are a few half decent guys around him, he might turn out okay. Hell, experience in this league (and others) hasn't necessarily been the promised land it has been made out to be. And I'm okay that he's not Canadian - you have to deal with who you trust within your network, so I'll grant that to Payne as well.

But the one thing that makes me cringe is hearing the fans be told to "be patient". I'm here to support this team. Through thick and thin, better or worse, whatever - but saying "be patient" means more pain (no pun intended here) before we ever see anything better. Every year we are told by the latest powers that be to be patient as though we've never heard it before. Patience is one thing that the die hards around here have shown. In a city where patience with sports teams has become the norm.

Please don't patronize me by telling me to be patient. Just be accountable and live up to the promise you are undertaking. It may not come today, or tomorrow, but show positive movement. TFC is not there yet, despite the changes we've sen. We need a period of stability and consistent, competitive results. Not winning every game, but at least competing and winning a fair share of them. And stop the revolving door of players (which isn't likely to stop anytime soon).

I still come back to "MAKE US PROUD AGAIN".

OgtheDim
01-08-2013, 08:35 PM
The nature of being a football supporter is to have times of glory, together with things that will make you tear your hair out.

Mariner is gone, and with him his "these bunch of idiots" 80's style attitude.

That is a good thing.


All in all, I think TFC took a step forward today.

Is it a perfect situation?

No, of course not.

But we are in a far better place then we were in October.


And, today, that's enough.

FluSH
01-08-2013, 08:38 PM
^^^
Well said

Toronto_Bhoy
01-08-2013, 08:45 PM
But this bleating about the "shit show" that is TFC I think is a bit overblown, at least in this case.


Here's why it looks like a "shit show".

Today's debacle was the last thing I expected from Kevin Payne. That's what makes it all the more bizarre. The whole thing "appears" cobbled together, like everything else TFC does.

TFC supporters are looking for stability and they get, "Oh, by the way, your new head coach might not be around for your opening game because he's playing for another team in another league." Really, KP? Your kidding right?

Am I expecting too much from these clowns? What do you think the previous SEVEN coaches are thinking tonight? I bet their having a right good laugh.

Your correct about MLSE "ticking all the boxes" but it's too late for me. They burned me. I will watch from a distance before I fork over another couple of grand. I blindly believed six years ago this was the real article and they showed me they weren't. They need to win my trust and confidence back. Today didn't help, I didn't see the quality. I saw what I've come to expect from this organization.

I like Ryan Nelsen. He's a decent footballer, comes with good references and Payne knows him personally…that's all great but of course none of these guarantee success as a manager. He has no track record, no experience, it's all new to him. We have a rookie, he will be "cutting his teeth" at our expense. Is this really what this franchise needs?

After six seasons of this "shit show", regression not progression, eight coaches, does any of today make sense?

I hope it works but too be honest I expected more. I was underwhelmed today.

tfcleeds
01-08-2013, 08:48 PM
Just had an opportunity to watch the press conference for the first time. In regards to the question Payne is asked "how quickly did this come about", and he answers, "oh, we've been talking about it off and on for 10 years or so"....really, Kevin? Really? That's weak. I still have faith in the hiring, but come on.

jloome
01-08-2013, 08:49 PM
…that's all great but of course none of these guarantee success as a manager.

Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

Fort York Redcoat
01-08-2013, 09:13 PM
This day could be remembered as the day the franchise died. And I will remember where I was when it happened.

Or literally hundreds of other moments chicken littles have said it.

If MLSE is your problem there is other live soccer around right at that Lamport you're talking about.

Sullivan
01-08-2013, 09:27 PM
Care to share those good reasons?
Performance of teams & Recruiting.
Can't expect to stay with an Ivy program if your team can't compete. His teams rarely challenged,
pretty sure they never won conference or gained NCAA berth. Although Ivy's don't offer athletic
scholy's, they do offer financial aid and academic awards - Dartmouth at one time was a good
destination which lost it's lustre - although I wouldn't blame O'Leary for that, he's no Bobby Clark
and that's who he replaced.

He resigned from GMU, but the writing was on the wall, 3 losing seasons but more so the failure
to sign the quality in-state players, often losing out to other local programs (UVa, Maryland, ODU,
W&M, G'town, Va.Tech, JMU).



...I've never heard of Bowdoin College...
Better known for women's ice hockey.


... you'd think Payne's Rolodex would be slightly more extensive than
to grab some guy who's been toiling away in obscurity the last few years. ...

O'Leary is a Payne hire, they're football acquaintances from when both lived within the 495 beltway.
GMU was also an occasional training centre for DCU in the 90's.

I'm also led to beleive that they both resided in Reston, Va., that's info provided to me by a colleague
who is familiar with GMU, DCU and local youth football.

I get that Payne want's his own people, but O'Leary's involvement leaves me very underwhelmed.

That said, happy to see the back of Mariner.

Red CB Toronto
01-08-2013, 09:39 PM
He was able to build a good program at Bowdoin Sullivan, could you give any insight into the differences a coach would face at a at the Ivy League/Division 1 vs. D3, is success not success? I am just curious.

burlington Red
01-08-2013, 09:47 PM
Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

well said...

Worth noting even Fergie was given time at Utd and also worth noting on the whole lack of managerial experience issue re Nelson, that the most sought after manager in the game at the minute, Pep Guardiola went straight into managing Barca with no prior managerial experience. He coached their 2nd string for a while but that was it. He did have a slightly better pool of players than Nelson will acquire lol but nonetheless he had no top level experience and he did okay. The type of player he was though, meant he was always going to be a good manager. I see similiar traits in Nelson albeit in a much lower level league. He is coming straight from the game so will be up to speed on all modern coaching techniques etc, not some ex pro such as Mariner or Mojo who although top players themselves in their days haven't really moved with the times and their methods and tactics were shown to be outdated.

Toronto_Bhoy
01-08-2013, 10:11 PM
Ferguson had 10 years coaching experience (and won a European trophy) before going to United. As you say, Pep had a "slightly better pool" of players and worked under Johan Cruyff, the man that brought total football to Spain.

Flipityflu
01-08-2013, 10:11 PM
seriously, am i out of order for being so angry about this?

it seems the glee in firing Mariner has clouded the fact we just hired a ‘manager’ with no certificates, no managerial experience, and at least right now, no availability to actually manage the team. this is supposed to get me excited? this is supposed to get me to buy season tickets again? or any tickets for that matter.

haven't you had enough of the blind faith?

Initial B
01-08-2013, 10:24 PM
I doubt that the way things have transpired is the way Payne intended to start the season. This is the only logical way I can see why things turned out the way they did:

Payne had been in contact with Nelson ever since coming here and planned to bring him in as an Assistant Coach as soon as his stint with QPR was done. The plan was to have him learn under Mariner for the rest of the season, then take over as Head Coach once Mariner's contract runs out. Mariner (who was thinking more along the lines of an Adrian Heath-type AC) gets wind of this plan (probably from Cochrane) some time late last week and confronts Payne. Payne confirms this plan at which point Mariner says "screw you" and quits on the spot, figuring it is the best way to damage Payne's long-term team building plan. Payne has to do damage control and reaches for his Rolodex of contacts to figure out which coach he could get on very short notice that would be willing to come here and work with Nelson. That man is O'Grady, thus the fast-tracking of his pro coaching license. Everything just comes together on Monday and thus we have Tuesday's performance, where Payne gives uncomfortable answers as to why he let Mariner go.

I had hoped that Payne would be honest, but I feel he is lying just as much as Anselmi did and that is what is making me angry. MLSE never trusts its fanbase with the truth.

How's my tin-foil hat holding up?

Alonso
01-08-2013, 10:31 PM
I have no idea whether Nelsen will work out, but I think people really don't understand where managing TFC ranks in world football.

You want a guy to start tomorrow? You can have that by, say, bringing in someone who was just fired in the Swiss second division.

I am glad Nelsen is the type of guy who is honouring his contractual obligation to his team, and his moral obligation to QPR supporters.

If this is who Payne wants, fine, the cost is he starts late, we'll all remember that if Nelsen fails.

Nelsen is by any standard a reasonable candidate for coach of TFC, given that Payne is fully responsible for cap management, college and pro scouting.

I support Payne's judgment on this.


This is a huge point right here.

The guy leaving will back stab, leak information, create false press releases, bad mouth previous and current players and managers.

The new guy takes his responsibilities seriously enough to see them through on good terms.

I feel Payne and Nelsen have the same type of character which we have only seen glimpses of around here through guys like Dichio, Robinson, and Carver to name a few.

I am glad that these are the types of men running this club from the top down as this alone is a vast improvement from where we have been over the last 6 years.

Sullivan
01-08-2013, 10:32 PM
.. any insight into the differences a coach would face at a at the Ivy League/Division 1 vs. D3

Money.

More money available to fund scholy's; More money available to recruit; More money available to fund quality non-conference games.
Div 1 scholarship count is 9.9 scholarships per team - typically split amongst the roster - 25+players.
Div 2 scholarship count is 9 scholarships per team - typically split amongst the roster - 25+players.
Div 3 offer no scholarships.

What's important to note is that although a program is allowed 9.9 or 9 scholarships, it's up to the school to decide how many scholy's they will fund. It varies.


Quality of player
Elite Div 1 programs attract the studs - provincial/state all star players, national team players.
Lesser D1 (like my son's program) attracts your OYSL/SuperY type players - his school funds 6.5 of the 9.9 scholarships.
D2's have less money so fewer scholarships are offered, they get the scraps.
D3's no athletic scholarships but offer financial aid, smaller schools, a lot of privates with some money (Rollins in Fla) do very well.
(Often hear this is where the rich families buy a scholarship for junior)
My other son is at a small D3 - just academic money for smart kids that can play.

Ivy's, no athletic scholarships but offer financial aid - don't be fooled, where there's a will there is a way. They get quality athletes.



... is success not success? ...

It is, and I agree.
Level of play is relative - good programs do well.
FWIW, I've yet to see an elite D3 that would match up favourably with, say top 35 D1 programs. There is a difference.
... however, on any given day, any given result could happen.....

Toronto_Bhoy
01-08-2013, 11:03 PM
Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

Could agree more jloome. Coaching experience does not translate into immediate success.

I too have hired my share of people who weren't even in the same industry, with great success, because there skills were transferrable, they brought fresh ideas and their core values aligned with those of the position and corporation. Many have been game breakers for us.

However, in a position where there was an immediate need to "right the ship" and "hit the ground running", I usually play the percentages. IMO, TFC are in this position, the margin for error is limited, the tolerance for failure is low, there is a degree of risk management that needs to waged. Your only summer sports competitor has gone for glory, perhaps MLSE should look down the street at how the Blue Jays have structured their management team. Time will tell.

TFC have created a slippery slope for themselves. When your business is hemorrhaging you need to stop the bleeding…STH and attendance are down, the Season One ticket prices is not sustainable and the competition down the street is looking to win it all.

I like the appointment of Kevin Payne. I read your posts, you've forgotten more about this league than I'll ever know but I do understand his hiring is as good as it gets…dare I say a masterstroke of fools. However, I believe a rookie coach is a massively unnecessary hiring risk with virtually zero wiggle room.

I hope I'm wrong but sense this was Plan C or D.

Yohan
01-08-2013, 11:08 PM
And why does anyone think supporters will be less reasonable towards someone with less experience? What is that based on? I can pretty much guarantee you that if TFC are 500 in June, people will be over the moon, and if they're 3-8, a significant faction will want Nelsen (and maybe Payne) fired.

Kevin Payne has to engage in major PR campaign to temper supporter expectations.

I think in KP's mind, 2013 is a rebuilding season and playoff is not likely. In a lot of supporters mind, 2013 is year TFC makes playoffs, and if there is no tangible improvement from the start, people are going to be restless.

It's hard asking for more patience from TFC supporters after 6 years of shite, but I drank some kool aid. I'm willing to let a proven MLS guy like KP have some time to implement his vision of what TFC should be like.

Yohan
01-08-2013, 11:11 PM
I like the appointment of Kevin Payne. I read your posts, you've forgotten more about this league than I'll ever know but I do understand his hiring is as good as it gets…dare I say a masterstroke of fools. However, I believe a rookie coach is a massively unnecessary hiring risk with virtually zero wiggle room.

I hope I'm wrong but sense this was Plan C or D.
KP is running Ben Olsen experiment Mark 2... He thinks Ryan Nelsen is similar character as Ben Olsen, and is willing to give Nelsen some time to develop into quality calibre of coach. Now I don't know if Nelsen will end up working out or not... and I think a lot of negative talk would be gone if this complication with QPR didn't come up...

Speculation, but I think even if Nelsen would retire right now, QPR would demand some sort of compensation from TFC. And by the sounds of it, Nelsen doesn't want to leave QPR when they need him. What a drama though.

ag futbol
01-08-2013, 11:32 PM
You can find videos of Bowdoiin Soccer games on youtube to get an idea of what O'Leary's about. But if you're already highly pessimistic, I wouldn't recommend it.

Really not much there to judge.

Yohan
01-09-2013, 01:00 AM
Reaction from New Zealand national team POV
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/8157300/

Nelsen and O'Leary in some sort of sports psychology partnership
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/5560827/All-Whites-captains-plan-for-young-talent

Yohan
01-09-2013, 01:01 AM
Also, do we get to learn the haka now? lol
Honestly, how can you not feel pumped up after a haka?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4LNjNXt1yM

The All Black Haka

By Te Rauparaha
Ka mate! Ka mate! Ka ora! Ka ora!
Ka mate! Ka mate! Ka ora! Ka ora!
Tenei te tangata puhuru huru
Nana nei i tiki mai
Whakawhiti te ra
A upa ... ne! ka upa ... ne!
A upane kaupane whiti te ra!
Hi!

The English translation:

I die! I die! I live! I live!
I die! I die! I live! I live!
This is the hairy man
Who fetched the Sun
And caused it to shine again
One upward step! Another upward step!
An upward step, another ... the Sun shines!!
Hi!

Red CB Toronto
01-09-2013, 01:01 AM
After thinking about it further I have a lot of respect for how this is currently playing out. It is obvious that Kevin Payne has decided that Ryan Nelsen is the right guy for the long term future of the Reds. In many ways while I know it is not ideal, seeing QPR through until the end of the Premier League season makes me respect him a lot more as it shows the type of character he has, one that does not turn his back on anything. I am sure that if and/or when it becomes apparent that QPR is unable to rise above relegation Harry will allow Ryan to depart.

tiberius
01-09-2013, 01:29 AM
...

I feel Payne and Nelsen have the same type of character which we have only seen glimpses of around here through guys like Dichio, Robinson, and Carver to name a few.

I am glad that these are the types of men running this club from the top down as this alone is a vast improvement from where we have been over the last 6 years.
I'm with you Alonso! I am baffled by the negativity today. Almost to a person, the posters to this board have agreed for a long time that the huge underlying problem has been culture and character. A culture built by Anselmi - a corrupt, incompetent, bureaucratic, political culture that spawned a six year, groundhog day circus. Most agreed - for things to turn around, the major contributors/architects to the culture had to go - Anselmi, Cochrane, Bierne. For many, after a time, Mariner was added to the list.

Today is a great day - a strong, harmful, negative influence is gone (Mariner), and we have added someone with strong character who will add to a positive winning culture for this team. You can dream of a single coach (or player) signing somehow miraculously turning this team around, but it ain't gonna happen until you have the right people in there culturally (and the wrong people out).

Face facts - We are the undisputed, worst team in the world. I don't recall ANYBODY disputing this claim - even among supporters on this board. This signing is as good as it gets (for now).

Without a doubt, the next challenge is moving Cochrane out. Keeping him as the coffee gopher or the guy who operates the sprinklers at half time may sound OK, but Payne has to move him out, in order to continue to improve the team. Cochrane has fouled the nest badly and will be a negative influence on the culture, by his very presence - he represents the old way of doing things - politics + incompetence. If Payne moves Cochrane out the door quickly, this will signal a real dawn of a new era. Stay tuned!

Perhaps a new poll should be started: "How many games will Cochrane last?" (For those politically correct among us, I would note that I have not suggested a "Deathwatch" thread!:))

ensco
01-09-2013, 06:31 AM
Kevin Payne has to engage in major PR campaign to temper supporter expectations.

I think in KP's mind, 2013 is a rebuilding season and playoff is not likely. In a lot of supporters mind, 2013 is year TFC makes playoffs, and if there is no tangible improvement from the start, people are going to be restless.

It's hard asking for more patience from TFC supporters after 6 years of shite, but I drank some kool aid. I'm willing to let a proven MLS guy like KP have some time to implement his vision of what TFC should be like.

It doesn't matter who the coach is in 2013. We are worse than an expansion team. Seriously. If we could release all our players and go back through an expansion draft, I would do that in a flash.

Re expectations, Payne said he expects to contend for the playoffs but that making it is unrealistic. I think the "contend" bit was similar to his endorsement of Mariner, ie it's what he had to say.

A lot has to do with whether you renewed or not.

denime
01-09-2013, 07:00 AM
Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

Well said,Highlighted part is what I think is very important in this whole new coach hiring.