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View Full Version : Johnson and Kocic Gone



cmonyoureds
12-12-2012, 02:57 PM
To Portland for 3rd overall pick - as reported by Toronto Sun.
Says 4(?) contracts out on offer, mainly Swedish players if I recall article correctly.

Didn't see elsewhere, if I missed it, sorry.

cmonyoureds
12-12-2012, 02:58 PM
No link because of pesky pay wall thingey.

Phil
12-12-2012, 03:00 PM
Article:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/12/tfc-trades-ryan-johnson-milos-kocic-to-portland-for-draft-pick

Sad to see them go, allocation and a Joe Bendick coming back from Portland and the 3rd pick.

tfcmanu
12-12-2012, 03:02 PM
Portland-TFC trade is official, with Toronto also receiving GK Joe Bendik and allocation money along w/No. 3 overall pick in 2013 draft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Bendik

https://twitter.com/SoccerByIves

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2012/12/breaking-timbers-set-to-trade-first-round-pick-to-tfc-for-johnson-kocic.html

Shakes McQueen
12-12-2012, 03:03 PM
The Payneful rebuild begins.

Yeah, that's right.

- Scott

Globetrotter
12-12-2012, 03:03 PM
big difference between 3rd round and 3rd overall.

mastermixer
12-12-2012, 03:06 PM
The Payneful rebuild begins.

Yeah, that's right.

- Scott

Well played, sir.

Phil
12-12-2012, 03:07 PM
big difference between 3rd round and 3rd overall.


Fixed, my bad. We have the first and third picks in the draft this year.

MartinUtd
12-12-2012, 03:08 PM
Seems like a Salary dump. Can we assume Freddy Hall will be gone by the end of training camp (at latest)?

Globetrotter
12-12-2012, 03:09 PM
why are we shopping the 1st pick if we the consensus is a center back that could step in right away (like omar gonzalez?)

Auzzy
12-12-2012, 03:18 PM
Already being discussed at length here: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?33161-TFC-2012-2013-off-season-general-player-moves-speculation-etc/page8

razor787
12-12-2012, 03:22 PM
This trade gets me excited. 1st and 3rd overall, plus we have Siva from last year who was 4th overall, we're going to have some good, cheap, young talent on the roster. Those guys, along with Henry and Morgan from our academy, and it looks like we're going to have a solid team that will only improve as these kids get older, and learn the game more.

ManUtd4ever
12-12-2012, 03:23 PM
A fairly good return, all things considered. It will be up to Payne to make proper use of the allocation vis a vis free agent player acquisitions, and to draft wisely. I would assume that two future starters can be drafted with two of the top three picks in the upcoming draft.

I wish Johnson and Kocic well, as they were significant contributors to our memorable 2011-2012 CCL run.

mastermixer
12-12-2012, 03:59 PM
Johnson didn't sound like he wanted to be here much longer so I'm not too sad to see him leave. Kocic on the other hand was soldier for TFC and showed the pride to play for us not many players seem to have.
Portland seems like they have a lot of shuffling to do with these new players. We shall see what happens.

Suds
12-12-2012, 04:02 PM
I liked both these guys. Both were brighter spots in what was a dismal 2012.

In a way I'm glad for Kocic because he didn't seem to factor into Mariner's plans. He can now go get a fresh start and battle for a starting job.

DangerRed
12-12-2012, 04:05 PM
Kocic was a shabby, error-prone goalkeeper and RyJo would score once in a while but not much and not enough. A player's departure tends to romanticize his career around here, for whatever reason. I don't get it.

Good trade.

Canada72
12-12-2012, 04:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPOQKIIHjgc

Will always remember Johnson's goal vs LA at Rogers Centre - the season went down hill fast after those LA games...

flatpicker
12-12-2012, 05:06 PM
^ Thanks for posting that.

Hadn't seen that vid before. At first I was like,"where is this? I see people in red, but that ain't BMO". Then the camera pans back, and then I realized. Gotta say, it was pretty awesome seeing that many people out for a TFC game. And all the streamers and banners looked awesome. That was a fun game to be at, even if a few of the friends I brought with me needed me to explain the rules a few times.

At any rate, I like that work is being done on this team. Mr. Payne has me optimistic. Well, as optimistic as one can be after 6 years of futility.

Belfast_Boy
12-12-2012, 05:41 PM
Cool. We needed change and here it begins. The hope is growing.
Wish both guys success at their new club as long as it isn't when we play them.

[NBF]
12-12-2012, 05:55 PM
Portland: You gotta admit they've improved and sooner rather than later. Check out this lineup.

------------------------Ricketts-----------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
(*2)Harrington----Horst----------Mosquera------Wallace
-------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------Jewsbury-----------------------
Nagbe-----------------------------------(*1)W.Johnson
-----------------------Chara(DP)----------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
---------------Boyd(DP)-------(*3)R.Johnson----------

Toronto FC: We are only 3 or 4 players away!

-------------------------Frei---------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
Eckersley---------(*1)----------O'Dea-----------Morgan
-------------------------------------------------------
-------------------(*4?)Frings(DP)-----------------------
(*3)-----------------------------------------------(*2)
-------------------------Silva--------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
------------Hassli(DP)---------Koevermans(DP)----------

- 5 of 8 internationals spots already being used on Koevermans, Hassli, Frings, O'Dea, and Eckersley.

Petor
12-12-2012, 06:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPOQKIIHjgc

Will always remember Johnson's goal vs LA at Rogers Centre - the season went down hill fast after those LA games...

Thanks for posting that, I've only seen this one, same end of the field but on the other side.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB6hAn7WRx8&feature=share&list=FLgHSXUHCHw Swj8-GaET3-6w

Mango Kid
12-12-2012, 07:02 PM
It is going to be such a TFC moment when they package the #1 and #3 picks for the #2.

Walms
12-12-2012, 07:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPOQKIIHjgc

Will always remember Johnson's goal vs LA at Rogers Centre - the season went down hill fast after those LA games...

Thanks for the memories, that was one of the best nights I've had!

Wish Milos and Ryan the best of luck, it was great having you with the reds!

TFC07
12-12-2012, 08:18 PM
Yeah, that game in Rogers Centre was best soccer game I have ever been to. This is a good trade for both sides. We get a high draft pick and allocation money to sign good players.

Flipityflu
12-12-2012, 08:33 PM
i think this is a good start.

PopePouri
12-12-2012, 09:01 PM
http://www.suhaag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/FC.jpg

Epic!!

Derko
12-12-2012, 09:12 PM
I remember Kocic stopping a penalty, not many TFC goalkeepers can say that!!

Parkdale
12-12-2012, 09:15 PM
best of luck to them both.

I can't wait to see how Payne plays the draft (it will be him calling all the shots right? Obviously with some input from Earl, and maybe some from Mariner)

ensco
12-12-2012, 09:41 PM
Interesting trade.

I feel a little better about the Hassli deal now. I see the two deals as kind of connected. Hassli and 3rd overall this year for Johnson and high pick next year doesn't seem bad at all.

TFCRegina
12-13-2012, 03:12 AM
Unimpressed.

We'll see what happens I suppose.

Cashcleaner
12-13-2012, 04:07 AM
Johnson didn't sound like he wanted to be here much longer so I'm not too sad to see him leave. Kocic on the other hand was soldier for TFC and showed the pride to play for us not many players seem to have.
Portland seems like they have a lot of shuffling to do with these new players. We shall see what happens.

I'm of the same mind. Not hating on Johnson or anything, but I think I got the same vibe as you from him. As for Kocic, man, I'm gonna miss that guy. He always showed pride and passion out on the pitch. I wish for the very best for the guy - except when he has to face us next season.

TOBOR !
12-13-2012, 06:27 AM
This trade gets me excited. 1st and 3rd overall, plus we have Siva from last year who was 4th overall, we're going to have some good, cheap, young talent on the roster. Those guys, along with Henry and Morgan from our academy, and it looks like we're going to have a solid team that will only improve as these kids get older, and learn the game more.

Unlikely, as long as Mariner is still here.

Oldtimer
12-13-2012, 09:01 AM
Kocic and Frei both on the same team is a waste of cap space, and if I had to choose, Frei would be my man even if just because of his attitude.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Stefan+Frei+Philadelphia+Union+v+Toronto+FC+3YZbbk o_ryhl.jpg

I want players who will give their all for the badge. Kocic is decent, but Frei gives his all.

Good trade, I'm pleased.

Technorgasm
12-13-2012, 09:05 AM
Fixed, my bad. We have the first and third picks in the draft this year.

Love the position, hope we get someone decent.

Dont want to see Milos go. . . really enjoyed him playing for us between the sticks.
Regretfully, the trade makes perfect sense. . so I cant get enjoyment of being overly critical of it on the interwebs. . .
As an RPB, our collective favorite pastime.

Lord help the internet if TFC actually start winning. .
then we'll have to winge about the WAY in which we won. .
(wont THAT be nice)

GuelphStorm2007
12-13-2012, 09:22 AM
I do like the trade but we are still lacking depth in the CB position and a few decent Attacking Midfielders from being a decent team . But it is a start. I am crossing my fingers if guys Like Stinson, Morgan , and Henry can improve even more this season just because they are Canadians

jloome
12-13-2012, 11:28 AM
This can also be seen as a show of confidence in Mariner from Payne, given that RJ publicly criticized him and Kocic and he already didn't see eye to eye.

[NBF]
12-13-2012, 11:55 AM
This can also be seen as a show of confidence in Mariner from Payne, given that RJ publicly criticized him and Kocic and he already didn't see eye to eye.

Its possible that Kocic requested the trade considering he's the sole earner in his household, with his wife not being able to get a work visa in Canada. Maybe personal choice to go back to the US. Ryan Johnson was worth the 1st rounder and Kocic was a lateral move to give him some help in getting back to the US and Portland would get a possible replacement for Ricketts.

IMO we've missed a big part of the original thread post where it says that there are a possible 4 players of swedish origin coming to TFC. Mariner said he wanted two box to box midfielder which might or might not include Luis Silva.

So my guess is the following:

1. CB
2. LB
3. CM
4. LM

And select a Striker and 2 central midfielders in the MLS Draft. I dont wanna admit it with Mariner at the helm but this might be a good team, depending on who these Swedish players might be.

*Edit: It will be an interesting lineup considering the two slowest striker partnership in MLS will be playing together.

JuliquE
12-13-2012, 02:36 PM
This can also be seen as a show of confidence in Mariner from Payne, given that RJ publicly criticized him and Kocic and he already didn't see eye to eye.
Hate to be a pain.. but, could you or someone else link me to the comments from RJ, where he criticises Mariner?

It's particularly interesting to me, because I felt like it's a classic case of be careful what you wish for; I remember when he added fuel to the fire, when things were piling up on Winter and offered a fairly heartfelt endorsement of Mariner's increased role as striker coach -- like he would have been happy if his role exceeded this, even.

jloome
12-13-2012, 10:54 PM
Hate to be a pain.. but, could you or someone else link me to the comments from RJ, where he criticises Mariner?

Not a problem JuliquE. As Spider-Man says, 'you get ONE.'

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/12/13/kick-latest-clue-revealed-about-future-las-donovan

Scroll down, it's half-way through. In the same interviews Kocic, as I recall, said basically "it's not up to me", which isn't much better.

That's a repeat of a quote from the year-end interviews.

Fort York Redcoat
12-14-2012, 08:01 AM
RJ and Kocic both had huge roles to fill with injuries to bigger starters in front of them.

Kocic would have never had that sure starter role unless Frei wasn't there and management was committed to Frei. Good luck to Kocic and his family. I think this will be a positive move for him. RJ is more a maybe.

What we're left with is more unknown quantities, not less. It's a bit frazzling.

Frei will be ready for the pre-season...just.
All our DP's will be ready but coming back from injury/surgery for pre-season, first kick, or later.

And what we have is unproven or undependable backups in goal.
Even if we get starters from the draft (and we should) that doesn't guarantee MLS starting quality.

Season 7- Extreme Faith required it seems.

JuliquE
12-14-2012, 09:15 AM
Not a problem JuliquE. As Spider-Man says, 'you get ONE.'

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/12/13/kick-latest-clue-revealed-about-future-las-donovan

Scroll down, it's half-way through. In the same interviews Kocic, as I recall, said basically "it's not up to me", which isn't much better.

That's a repeat of a quote from the year-end interviews.
heh Vielen Dank. Es war sehr interessant, dass zu lesen, wie ich vorher erraten habe.

KGH
12-14-2012, 09:30 AM
Frei will be ready for the pre-season...just.



In the year end interviews Steph said he was a couple weeks away from 100%. That was Oct 30. I imagine he'll be 98-99% by pre-season

Auzzy
12-14-2012, 09:32 AM
Danny K is the one who won't be ready until a couple of months into the season.

KGH
12-14-2012, 09:40 AM
Danny K is the one who won't be ready until a couple of months into the season.

I agree. Based on Cann and Williams recovery I doubt we'll ever again see the Danny that was the scoring machine before his injury.

London
12-14-2012, 09:41 AM
RJ and Kocic both had huge roles to fill with injuries to bigger starters in front of them.

Kocic would have never had that sure starter role unless Frei wasn't there and management was committed to Frei. Good luck to Kocic and his family. I think this will be a positive move for him. RJ is more a maybe.

What we're left with is more unknown quantities, not less. It's a bit frazzling.

Frei will be ready for the pre-season...just.
All our DP's will be ready but coming back from injury/surgery for pre-season, first kick, or later.

And what we have is unproven or undependable backups in goal.
Even if we get starters from the draft (and we should) that doesn't guarantee MLS starting quality.

Season 7- Extreme Faith required it seems.


there has to be some other moves in the making or else you are correct about the unknown quantities to have faith on

London
12-14-2012, 09:44 AM
Kocic and Frei both on the same team is a waste of cap space, and if I had to choose, Frei would be my man even if just because of his attitude.



I want players who will give their all for the badge. Kocic is decent, but Frei gives his all.

Good trade, I'm pleased.


have you ever talked to Milos, I have and he loved playing for TFC, he gave his all and to say he didn't is wrong.

flamehawk
12-14-2012, 09:59 AM
Kocic and Frei both on the same team is a waste of cap space, and if I had to choose, Frei would be my man even if just because of his attitude.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Stefan+Frei+Philadelphia+Union+v+Toronto+FC+3YZbbk o_ryhl.jpg

I want players who will give their all for the badge. Kocic is decent, but Frei gives his all.

Good trade, I'm pleased.

I am kind of scratching my head at this statement. As much as I also like Frei, Kocic was more than capable and always wore his heart on his sleeves. He seemed to really care about the club and I never doubted his efforts. I'd actually say that of all our players, he was one of them that really gave it his all.

Ageroo
12-14-2012, 10:13 AM
Kocic and Frei both on the same team is a waste of cap space, and if I had to choose, Frei would be my man even if just because of his attitude.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Stefan+Frei+Philadelphia+Union+v+Toronto+FC+3YZbbk o_ryhl.jpg

I want players who will give their all for the badge. Kocic is decent, but Frei gives his all.

Good trade, I'm pleased.


have you ever talked to Milos, I have and he loved playing for TFC, he gave his all and to say he didn't is wrong.


I am kind of scratching my head at this statement. As much as I also like Frei, Kocic was more than capable and always wore his heart on his sleeves. He seemed to really care about the club and I never doubted his efforts. I'd actually say that of all our players, he was one of them that really gave it his all.

Gotta agree with both these guys James....I sat directly behind Milos in 115 and I agree that he gave 110% every game...he loved playing for the crest.

jloome
12-14-2012, 10:55 AM
heh Vielen Dank. Es war sehr interessant, dass zu lesen, wie ich vorher erraten habe.

No problem. Lucky timing, as they'd just reposted the quote a day earlier. I imagine the day after he said it, he was done. He might have even said it to force a move.

jloome
12-14-2012, 11:00 AM
I agree. Based on Cann and Williams recovery I doubt we'll ever again see the Danny that was the scoring machine before his injury.

Nah, don't worry man. ACL is routine these days. Lots of guys are just as strong after it as before.

Someone said yesterday he was injury prone in Holland; he averaged more than 20 games a season there, so he wasn't that injury prone. And this was an injury based on his studs planting hard and then a player changing his direction of motion abruptly. I did it at 19 on a basketball court, and it was never an issue once repaired -- although psychologically, maybe, which can be tough on a striker.

I think he'll be back fine. Ideally we use him two out of three, so that he lasts the year. If we balance how we play older guys -- if we have a decent enough depth of roster to do that -- then maybe he makes it through the year intact.

I'm actually more worried about Hassli. He has mad skills but disappears for every third or fourth game, either figuratively in that he mentally checks out or literally in that he gets a lot of little nagging injuries.

Braun is a really raw talent, even though he's 25, as he started pro soccer late. Maybe Danny can mold him; Payne's probably going to be asking both of the big guys to tutor him.

burlington Red
12-14-2012, 01:08 PM
Nah, don't worry man. ACL is routine these days. Lots of guys are just as strong after it as before.

Someone said yesterday he was injury prone in Holland; he averaged more than 20 games a season there, so he wasn't that injury prone. And this was an injury based on his studs planting hard and then a player changing his direction of motion abruptly. I did it at 19 on a basketball court, and it was never an issue once repaired -- although psychologically, maybe, which can be tough on a striker.

I think he'll be back fine. Ideally we use him two out of three, so that he lasts the year. If we balance how we play older guys -- if we have a decent enough depth of roster to do that -- then maybe he makes it through the year intact.

I'm actually more worried about Hassli. He has mad skills but disappears for every third or fourth game, either figuratively in that he mentally checks out or literally in that he gets a lot of little nagging injuries.

Braun is a really raw talent, even though he's 25, as he started pro soccer late. Maybe Danny can mold him; Payne's probably going to be asking both of the big guys to tutor him.


averaging 20 games a season in Holland is still missing a decent chunk of their season, basically 1/3 of each season and that was when he was younger, older you get the longer it takes to heal.Not sure we'll see the best of Danny, hope we do. He struggled with his fitness early on this season also, so that is another issue he faces.

jloome
12-14-2012, 01:47 PM
averaging 20 games a season in Holland is still missing a decent chunk of their season, basically 1/3 of each season and that was when he was younger, older you get the longer it takes to heal.Not sure we'll see the best of Danny, hope we do. He struggled with his fitness early on this season also, so that is another issue he faces.

All true; but if you look at his strike rates, if we get 15 games out of him, we get 9 or 10 goals. So it's sort of another squad balance issue ... which with us isn't really a shock, I suppose.

The nightmare is that both he and Hassli go down early on, before they've had a chance to influence Braun. I think it's underestimated how much working with a top veteran can help a younger striker. One thing about Mariner (again, I hate his coaching to date) is that he was a top striker; when he was in New England Taylor Twellman claimed he basically changed his game, helped his movement off the ball and his reading of the game particularly.

I think Braun has a lot of untapped potential. He hasn't really been in a situation since Chivas where he could make use of it and he's not a technical guy, like Agudelo, so he wasn't going to be able to hold his spot there. He's a prototypical strong, target forward. But he scored some from around the edge of the box as well and can use space, so if he has some time to work with one of them about his off the ball movement, holding up the ball, an dpulling central defenders apart positionally for the advancing midfielder and that sort of thing, he has a legitimate shot in MLS.

But if they both go down in the first two weeks, the pressure on him could be immense. I have to think we're trying to get in at least one technique-based forward who can finish, in case the big man route isn't working or Braun is left up top alone. Maybe one of the Swedes?

Alonso
12-14-2012, 07:10 PM
No problem. Lucky timing, as they'd just reposted the quote a day earlier. I imagine the day after he said it, he was done. He might have even said it to force a move.


He doesn't strike me as a stupid man, and as such you are probably right.

He made those comments to sabotage his time at TFC and get as far away from the club as possible.

At the time who could blame him. I wonder if after recent events if he would reconsider.

Portland is a great place to play though, so I think he's probably happy how it all turned out.