Payne leaving D.C. United to take over as Toronto FC president

[mastermixer]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2012/11/27/exclusive-kevin-payne-leaving-d-c-united/


Kevin Payne, D.C. United’s hands-on executive since Major League Soccer’s most decorated club was launched in 1996, has stepped down as club president and will join another team in the league, multiple sources told the Insider.

Why do I have a feeling the team is TFC??

[Canary10]

He just left D.C. United for another job in MLS. Seems plausible. Read it here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2012/11/27/exclusive-kevin-payne-leaving-d-c-united/

[Detroit_TFC]

That would be a huge development if true.

[Canary10]

Beat me to it! (someone should delete the other thread).

[denime]

merged

[TOBOR !]

Despite the organization’s history of success, Payne’s management style wasn’t always well-received. He was a regular visitor to the locker room, attended practices on occasion and consulted with the technical staff about personnel issues. Some saw it as his way of expressing passion for a club he helped forge; others saw it as meddling.

Eat it, Mariner.

[mastermixer]

TFC needs a president with some MLS cred. Can't get much more MLS experience than this guy.

[DangerRed]

Because, you know, there's no way that this guy and Mariner will ever clash, right? Or that Mariner will feel threatened by this guy? [end sarcasm]

EDIT: to make it clear, I'd be over the moon if this guy joined us and cleaned up shop. Good luck to all!

[Detroit_TFC]

TFC needs a president with some MLS cred. Can't get much more MLS experience than this guy. There are only a few names that MLSE could throw out there and convince me the team president position was legit. Payne would be one.

[TOBOR !]

$20 says TFC thinks they've signed him, but he ends up somewhere else. lulz.

[Yohan]

Whatever faults Payne has, and he's got his detractors too, but all agrees that he was very passionate about DC United not from business point of view, helping to establish a soccer culture in Washington. Worked well with DC supporter groups.

[Fort York Redcoat]

$20 says TFC thinks they've signed him, but he ends up somewhere else. lulz.

I hate when you're right. I feel better because I know you can't feel good about it either.:mad:

C'mon TFC! Take the Robots moneys!

[ryan]

Eat it, Mariner.

That quote sounds positive for what I think the person in this role needs to be. Someone overseeing the clowns, right on their heels.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Whatever faults Payne has, and he's got his detractors too, but all agrees that he was very passionate about DC United not from business point of view, helping to establish a soccer culture in Washington. Worked well with DC supporter groups.

I'm thinking of similarities in our two teams support. Payne will be walking into a similar climate he had in DC.

Not saying he had a lot to any interaction just that the situations are similar and he's left DC support happier.

[Yohan]

And those of you with Latin America and SA fetish, Payne is a big believer of trying to get players from that area (with mixed results)

[ManUtd4ever]

Fingers crossed...

[Canary10]

He also has a good relationship with the league - something we clearly need.

[Yohan]

Payne has also presided over 4 MLS Cups, 4 Supporter's Shield and 2 US Open Cups, though none since 2007

[Canary10]

^ The one obvious question mark is his knowledge of Canadian soccer.

[Detroit_TFC]

Thought for sure a MLSE functionary was going to get the appointment. The devil's in the detail, like always, but Payne's got about as much history with the league as you can have. Been there for all of it. He could work anywhere in MLS, including Dallas (whose president is on the way out after his arrest for domestic assault), so I'd think he would be in a position to demand and get the level of control he wants.

[Canary10]

Ives is saying it's TFC.

[mastermixer]

^ The one obvious question mark is his knowledge of Canadian soccer.

I guess that's where Cochrane comes in :hide:
According to the Twitterverse, both Cochrane and Rongen have worked for Payne at DC.

[mastermixer]

From Ives:


Sources have confirmed to SBI that Kevin Payne is heading to Toronto FC, finalizing what was apparently an on-going courtship

[Yohan]

^ The one obvious question mark is his knowledge of Canadian soccer.

I could not care less about his knowledge of Canadian soccer, as long as he signs the best players possible, incl academy players when it fits.

TFC is not, and shouldn't be national team fodder team

[Canary10]

^ Yeah I tend to agree with you on that.

[flamehawk]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2012/11/27/exclusive-kevin-payne-leaving-d-c-united/

Good article summarizing Kevin Payne's work at DC United.


Despite the organization’s history of success, Payne’s management style wasn’t always well-received. He was a regular visitor to the locker room, attended practices on occasion and consulted with the technical staff about personnel issues. Some saw it as his way of expressing passion for a club he helped forge; others saw it as meddling.

While with a garbage manager like Mariner, the less control over the squad the better, this could be worrying if they actually appoint a proper manager. We really can't afford to have another Mo Johnston type character.

[jabbronies]

wasn't the problem with MoJo the fact that he meddled?

[mastermixer]

What's interesting is how they signed Hassli just a day before a new president is brought in. Another "Sturgis" move by Earl Cochrane?

[Phil]

So is this what the Don was hinting at yesterday?

[TFC Cityboy]

i KNOW NOTHING OF THIS GUY BUT NO DOUBTING HIS CREDENTIALS. tHE COMMENTS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE piece are telling. Most fans pissed off he's leaving.
Impressed.

[tfcleeds]

Interesting news indeed - if true, there may be some hope for this club yet.

[TOBOR !]

Ives Galarcep‏@SoccerByIves

Sources have confirmed to SBI that Kevin Payne is heading to Toronto FC, finalizing what was apparently an on-going courtship


as long as they're not the same as Duane Rollins' sources... (no offense, D.)

[Detroit_TFC]

Grant Wahl is also confirming based on his source.

[reggie]

What's interesting is how they signed Hassli just a day before a new president is brought in. Another "Sturgis" move by Earl Cochrane?

whats next for the COCH..will he trade our first pick this yr for sturgis??

[TOBOR !]

And those of you with Latin America and SA fetish, Payne is a big believer of trying to get players from that area (with mixed results)

latin fetish... hmmm...

[reggie]

if true...will he want his own coach....hmmm can i still renew?

[Greatest Ripoff]

I could not care less about his knowledge of Canadian soccer, as long as he signs the best players possible, incl academy players when it fits.

TFC is not, and shouldn't be national team fodder team

But getting the best out of local talent from the academy is an important part of being successful. There is a huge talent base here in the GTA and the club should be using this their advantage.

[Canary10]

TFC will put out a press release next Wednesday.

[Yohan]

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2012/11/report-payne-leaving-d-c-united-for-another-mls-club.html

[Beach_Red]

wasn't the problem with MoJo the fact that he meddled?

That was one of the problems, sure, but the biggest problem was lack of experience. If this signing is true then that won't be a problem. And there will probably have to be a period of "meddling" for the guy to find out exactly what's going on. This is an organization rife with cliques and loyalties and mini-empires that need to be ferreted out.

[TOBOR !]

Everyone's piling on the 'reliable source says he's moving to TFC', but I won't believe it until I see him sitting at a table with Tom Anselmi :

Tom : I don't know anything about soccer, so I'm bringing in someone who does [/redux]

[Yohan]

But getting the best out of local talent from the academy is an important part of being successful. There is a huge talent base here in the GTA and the club should be using this their advantage.
note my post, i said incl academy... ;)

[TOBOR !]

if true...will he want his own coach....hmmm can i still renew?

revised deadline : if Payne comes here he's got until Dec. 8th to dump Mariner and Cochrane for me to renew.

[TOBOR !]

Cue multitude of 'House of Payne' references.

[tfcmanu]

Ives Galarcep ‏@SoccerByIves

Report: Kevin Payne stepping down as D.C. United president to join another MLS club: http://bit.ly/UTGy4h (http://t.co/fW2JGxVj)

Would Kevin Payne go to TFC? I could see it. He strikes me as someone who would love challenge of building a winner where others couldn't

Payne also has ties 2 TFC front office. Dir. of Team+Player ops Earl Cochrane worked 4 him in DC, TFC academy boss Thomas Rongen coached DC

Sources have confirmed to SBI that Kevin Payne is heading to Toronto FC, finalizing what was apparently an on-going courtship


UPDATED story: Kevin Payne leaving D.C. United to take over as Toronto FC president: http://bit.ly/UTGy4h (http://t.co/fW2JGxVj)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Payne_(soccer)

[Canary10]

revised deadline : if Payne comes here he's got until Dec. 8th to dump Mariner and Cochrane for me to renew.

I think he's really unlikely to make any coaching moves right now. I think Mariner will be given the chance to pull a Rob Ford and author his own demise.

[TOBOR !]

I think he's really unlikely to make any coaching moves right now. I think Mariner will be given the chance to pull a Rob Ford and author his own demise.

nice reference. :D I'll sit back down on my wallet then.

[reggie]

the house of payne...start to clean house and i will nenew....make PM head bermuda scout and EC can become there travel agent..

[golaso.gol]

Just a matter of time for Rongen to become head coach of club. He's itchy to move on from academy for a while now
As for knowledge of Canadian soccer.......not a priority. Experience in this US league (made up of mostly American players and for US national team benefit) is whats needed to put a winner on the field- full stop. This move has the leagues hands all over it to stop the downward spiral of TFC.

[Canary10]

nice reference. :D I'll sit back down on my wallet then.

Betcha it's only a matter of time though. We all knew that was the case with Rob Ford too....

[TOBOR !]

Just a matter of time for Rongen to become head coach of club. He's itchy to move on from academy for a while now
As for knowledge of Canadian soccer.......not a priority. Experience in this US league (made up of mostly American players and for US national team benefit) is whats needed to put a winner on the field- full stop. This move has the leagues hands all over it to stop the downward spiral of TFC.

hmmm... interesting POV

[ryan]

Just a matter of time for Rongen to become head coach of club. He's itchy to move on from academy for a while now
As for knowledge of Canadian soccer.......not a priority. Experience in this US league (made up of mostly American players and for US national team benefit) is whats needed to put a winner on the field- full stop. This move has the leagues hands all over it to stop the downward spiral of TFC.


Hmmmm

[denime]

Just a matter of time for Rongen to become head coach of club. He's itchy to move on from academy for a while now
As for knowledge of Canadian soccer.......not a priority. Experience in this US league (made up of mostly American players and for US national team benefit) is whats needed to put a winner on the field- full stop. This move has the leagues hands all over it to stop the downward spiral of TFC.

Now Mariner will taste his own medicine,Rongen will really "work his ass off "to help him,same as Mariner did for Winter,and having DeKlark still on the contract Academy Director position can be filled very fast.

Rongen:smash:
_____ Mariner:hump:Payne

[starter]

Now Mariner will taste his own medicine,Rongen will really "work his ass off "to help him,same as Mariner did for Winter,and having DeKlark still on the contract Academy Director position can be filled very fast.

Rongen:smash:
_____ Mariner:hump:Payne

This, please!

[TOBOR !]

Steven Goff‏@SoccerInsider


FWIW, Toronto FC exec Earl Cochrane worked for Kevin Payne in communications office at #dcu many moons ago #tfc #mls

[mastermixer]

And we all know what a good communicator Cochrane was.

http://typicaltfc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Joao-Plata-introduced-at-LDU-Quito-e1343077119174.jpg

[Fort York Redcoat]

^But he's coming back.

[Pookie]

Sources close to DC United confirming TFC- Payne interest.

http://www.blackandredunited.com/2012/11/27/3697124/kevin-payne-leaving-dc-united-mls-team-stadium

[ryan]

It's on the MLS frontpage, not as a confirmed article from them, but if they're willing to put that much, I'd say it's a done deal.

[jloome]

Sources close to DC United confirming TFC- Payne interest.

http://www.blackandredunited.com/2012/11/27/3697124/kevin-payne-leaving-dc-united-mls-team-stadium

LOL, this has Earl's influence all over it. Tom turns to him for advice, and we hire his ex boss?

Payne has done a good job in D.C.; I don't mind us hiring someone who protects Cochrane, as long as it's as team manager, not the guy pulling the trigger on deals.

[ManUtd4ever]

Revert to Season 1 STH prices - Check

Hire a qualified president - Check

Replace Mariner - ?


Oh well, two out of three ain't bad.

[Initial B]

Watch him keel over with a massive coronary at the halfway point of the season. :(

[ManUtd4ever]

the house of payne...start to clean house and i will nenew....make PM head bermuda scout and EC can become there travel agent..

Love the reference..."House of Payne"

[Pookie]

Steven Goff of Washington Post says "Payne is going to Toronto"

[ensco]

Let's not jump to conclusions. If Payne keeps Cochrane, I would conclude that nothing has changed. I do not care that Cochrane used to work for Payne, it's irrelevant.

[Rudi]

Let's not jump to conclusions. If Payne keeps Cochrane, I would conclude that nothing has changed.
Those two sentences don't agree with each other.

[Mr. Bigby]

Those two sentences don't agree with each other.

Neither do Ensco and Cochrane...

[jloome]

Let's not jump to conclusions. If Payne keeps Cochrane, I would conclude that nothing has changed. I do not care that Cochrane used to work for Payne, it's irrelevant.

I wouldn't say that. He was in a much more restricted role in D.C.; he was their PR flak. If Payne had him on his radar there, he would've moved him up there. Given how tied in Cochrane is with the Nats program maybe he just wants to stay in Toronto and will play nice. Might be wishful thinking, but it's possible.

[Belfast_Boy]

Maybe he'll bring DeRo back!

[Gazza]

Maybe he'll bring DeRo back!

Stop teasing.

[jloome]

Those two sentences don't agree with each other.

Grammar Rodeo Marshall Rudi, he's referring to pragmatically, not in point of fact.

[ensco]

Rudi, touché.


Let me restate: the history of this owner is that they have often forced people to accept subordinates, and that these subordinates have undermined their bosses and/or been a back channel to Peddie/Anselmi.


While there is a chance that Payne would really sincerely want Cochrane, I highly doubt it, as Cochrane was a PR flack in DC, and Cochrane has not remotely distinguished himself as a soccer operations guy. There would be a much greater chance that Payne would have been compelled to "see how it goes" with Cochrane.


I am not paying it forward with these guys any more. It's not just about the "President".They have to prove that they know how to set up the operation properly.

[Damien]

I'm too lazy to read through the other pages on this post but I hope Payne is a good hire.

It reminds me of when TFC picked up Mo Johnston when RBNY was pushing his custy ass out the door.

[AL-MO]

Thank you Belfast Boy for all your work last season.

[Yohan]

I'm too lazy to read through the other pages on this post but I hope Payne is a good hire.

It reminds me of when TFC picked up Mo Johnston when RBNY was pushing his custy ass out the door.
Mo lasted 2 yrs in NY. Payne was President and CEO of DC United since 94. A bit of difference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Payne_%28soccer%29

Also a member of MLS Board of Governors

[Canary10]

I'm too lazy to read through the other pages on this post but I hope Payne is a good hire.

It reminds me of when TFC picked up Mo Johnston when RBNY was pushing his custy ass out the door.

You can't go 17 years running an organization without being quality.

[Ultra & Proud]

It reminds me of when TFC picked up Mo Johnston when RBNY was pushing his custy ass out the door.

Except that in this case he isn't getting pushed out and in fact, those who matter in DC are quite pissed about it.

[ensco]

You can't go 17 years running an organization without being quality.

He's had a revolving door for ownership, and a terrible stadium situation. No question, he is the right kind of guy.

He won't walk on water though. He stayed with Tom Soehn for a looooong time.

[Belfast_Boy]

Thank you Belfast Boy for all your work last season.


thanks bro, I did it for the children, cause it's all about them!

UpmX4qG1kQg

[Beach_Red]

Mo lasted 2 yrs in NY. Payne was President and CEO of DC United since 94. A bit of difference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Payne_(soccer)

Also a member of MLS Board of Governors

Two years? He was manager for 15 games, there's really no comparison here (I know you know that). Plus, if this is true, this guy is being hired to do a job he has actually done before - is that unprecedented at TFC?

[Damien]

Good, thanks for clearing that up guys.

[Wull]

I'd like to thank Craig Forrest for having Tom take the idea under advisement!

[Richard]

Great news!. I just hope he gets full immunity to do what he wants, even a guaranteed 3-4 year period to set this organization right.


If PM is fired along with the entire reorganization of staff, would getting Winter back as some sort of academy director be far fetched?

[BBBulldog]

Love the reference..."House of Payne"

I'm sure that has never been used before ;P

[Ultra & Proud]

If PM is fired along with the entire reorganization of staff, would getting Winter back as some sort of academy director be far fetched?

You mean get a guy who has no idea how to play MLS football to be in charge of all the players that hopefully will graduate to MLS level one day?

We did that already. And here we are. Let's try learning from our mistakes for a change.

[Ajax TFC]

Let me restate: the history of this owner is that they have often forced people to accept subordinates, and that these subordinates have undermined their bosses and/or been a back channel to Peddie/Anselmi..
I would hope that there isn't anyone who would sign with TFC without having the written power to hire/fire the management. MLSE has a way of putting themselves in a place where if they want a qualified person in charge, they have to give them full power. Remember the hiring of Burke? They made it clear that he was their one target, so he insisted on being made president so he wouldn't need approval to sign the players he needed.


If PM is fired along with the entire reorganization of staff, would getting Winter back as some sort of academy director be far fetched?
No, he was offered that when he was fired back in may and he declined it. He wants a head coaching job and, according to that Molinaro Article, he's had a few offers. Besides, I'm sure he could easily get an academy job in Europe if he was willing to settle for that

Edit: By "no" I mean: yes, it would be far fetched

[Pookie]

You mean get a guy who has no idea how to play MLS football to be in charge of all the players that hopefully will graduate to MLS level one day?

We did that already. And here we are. Let's try learning from our mistakes for a change.

Food for thought. DC United have one of the most respected MLS Academies. They live and breathe the Ajax model under Sonny Silooy.

Winter specifically? Maybe not. But Ajax again? It wouldn't be that far fetched.

[ag futbol]

I think it's a good sign, but I'll withhold judgement for the time being.

Likes: familiarity with Latin America, long track record, looks like a league directed hire, no direct connection to Mariner, DC has decent academy (not sure if he has much to do with it)

dislikes: connection to EC, potential that he'll be forced to accept subordinates, etc...

[Nuvinho]

I bet TFC gave up the 1st overall pick as compensation...haha!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm sure that has never been used before ;P

We'll use it with proper reverence, rest assured.

[Ultra & Proud]

Food for thought. DC United have one of the most respected MLS Academies. They live and breathe the Ajax model under Sonny Silooy.

Winter specifically? Maybe not. But Ajax again? It wouldn't be that far fetched.

More like Rongen specific. So, who will the new manager be? I know who it won't be now. At least not for long unless things are not what they appeared to be last season.

[ManUtd4ever]

My guess is that Payne will give Mariner the opportunity to keep his job next season, but Mariner will be on a very short leash.

[ag futbol]

My guess is that Payne will give Mariner the opportunity to keep his job next season, but Mariner will be on a very short leash.
Like every manager we ever had, he was hired to be fired.

Paul Mariner is now Kevin Payne's safety blanket. As soon as this season goes down the tubes, somebody's going to hit the eject button .

[Yohan]

Anselmi already said Mariner and Cochrane has next season to make the playoffs. I don't see Payne overruling Anselmi?

[ManUtd4ever]

Like every manager we ever had, he was hired to be fired.

Paul Mariner is now Kevin Payne's safety blanket. As soon as this season goes down the tubes, somebody's going to hit the eject button .

Agreed, although I don't think it will get to the point wherein the season will be down the tubes. If Mariner is winless out of the gate next season, I doubt he'll last more than 5 games.

[Ultra & Proud]

My guess is that Payne will give Mariner the opportunity to keep his job next season, but Mariner will be on a very short leash.
I think so too. I think that this is good because Mariner isn't an idiot and he knows how important getting off on the right foot will be. If he falters early I bet he has a shorter leash than Winter had.

Wonder how awful our schedule will be to start the season? If it's awful or has a lot of road matches then it'll be almost like the league sinking Mariner.

[ensco]

Mariner is different. If Payne keeps Mariner, I understand that.

But "Earl Cochrane" is not how this sentence concludes:

I have 17 years experience and have searched the world over for my right hand man, the key back room guy in terms of building a long-term, world class contract-negotiating and talent-evaluation capability, and he is ....

[Yohan]

Agreed, although I don't think it will get to the point wherein the season will be down the tubes. If Mariner is winless out of the gate next season, I doubt he'll last more than 5 games.
IIRC, Payne does not like to fire people during the season. Only manager he fired during the season was Kurt Onalfo

[Pookie]

I think so too. I think that this is good because Mariner isn't an idiot and he knows how important getting off on the right foot will be. If he falters early I bet he has a shorter leash than Winter had.

Wonder how awful our schedule will be to start the season? If it's awful or has a lot of road matches then it'll be almost like the league sinking Mariner.

The one wildcard in all of this is Mariner himself. If that offer to Adrian Heath really included a path for Heath to replace him as coach and Mariner had managerial aspirations, how does he view this?

[Yohan]

Mariner is different. If Payne keeps Mariner, I understand that.

But "Earl Cochrane" is not how this sentence concludes:

I have 17 years experience and have searched the world over for my right hand man, the key back room guy in terms of building a long-term, world class contract-negotiating and talent-evaluation capability, and he is ....

Be very interested if Cochrane does get the title of 'Director of Football', since he's pretty much doing that job right now anyways

[Pookie]

More like Rongen specific. So, who will the new manager be? I know who it won't be now. At least not for long unless things are not what they appeared to be last season.

Rongen perhaps stays with the Academy but could be a consideration for head coach. Though if I'm Bob de Klerk, I am also walking a little taller in my shoes at this news given those Ajax connections. Maybe he isn't going to be exited after all.

The head coach has to be Payne's guy. Whomever that may be. Speculate away.

[maninb]

Anselmi already said Mariner and Cochrane has next season to make the playoffs. I don't see Payne overruling Anselmi?

If PM starts the season like I think he will...he won't last 10 games....

[ManUtd4ever]

IIRC, Payne does not like to fire people during the season. Only manager he fired during the season was Kurt Onalfo

In this case, Mariner isn't his hire, so that shouldn't be a factor.

[Belfast_Boy]

Toronto FC lures D.C. United president Kevin Payne: report (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2012/11/27/sp-soccer-toronto-fc-kevin-payne-dc-united-major-league-soccer-don-garber.html)

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2012/11/27/sp-soccer-toronto-fc-kevin-payne-dc-united-major-league-soccer-don-garber.html (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2012/11/27/sp-soccer-toronto-fc-kevin-payne-dc-united-major-league-soccer-don-garber.html)

[Yohan]

If PM starts the season like I think he will...he won't last 10 games....

as much as I think Mariner will suck too, I'm waiting until pre season to see what moves TFC made (and what did the rest of MLS do) to make a prediction...

[Yohan]

In this case, Mariner isn't his hire, so that shouldn't be a factor.

I don't think that matters to Payne, whether he hired someone or not. From what I hear from DC supporters, he treats people with dignity and respect.

[McBrace]

So why would they excercise Eric Hassli's option the day before they hired a president? Wouldn't he have a say on the matter?

[Pookie]

So why would they excercise Eric Hassli's option the day before they hired a president? Wouldn't he have a say on the matter?

You'd think but it was like when Earl was filling the void before the Winter/Mariner team was announced. He shopped the 1st round pick for Nathan Sturgis.

He couldn't have had a say on it, or discussions leading up to it, as he was technically still with DC United. That would put him in a conflict.

Maybe a case of when the cat's away.

[Smokecell]

Interesting move by TFC hiring Payne, hopefully good things are abound.

As far as hassli is concerned, I'm moreso questioning why he's still a DP. I don't mind having him back but I can't see the value in his cap hit.

[ag futbol]

Interesting move by TFC hiring Payne, hopefully good things are abound.

As far as hassli is concerned, I'm moreso questioning why he's still a DP. I don't mind having him back but I can't see the value in his cap hit.
Well I can see that being his market value in europe, so that's basically what TFC is forced to pay.

He comes with a decent reputation despite his injury problems and has a EU passport. Even if he went to one of the Scandavian Leagues, he could probably hack something in the 400-600k range. Strikers earn good money...

Asides from that, he has negotiating leverage on TFC since they'd look terrible if he left after half a season of service in exchange for a first rounder. So while this move isn't the greatest, it just papers over the previous mistake.

[Yohan]

Well I can see that being his market value in europe, so that's basically what TFC is forced to pay.

He comes with a decent reputation despite his injury problems and has a EU passport. Even if he went to one of the Scandavian Leagues, he could probably hack something in the 400-600k range. Strikers earn good money...

Asides from that, he has negotiating leverage on TFC since they'd look terrible if he left after half a season of service in exchange for a first rounder. So while this move isn't the greatest, it just papers over the previous mistake.

Hassli did manage to score 10 goals his first season with Vancouver, and he did get 3 goals in 7 games with a terrible TFC team. Barring injury, I think Hassli is good for 10 goals and I think this is what TFC is banking on too. Fully fit Koevermans and Hassli may be potentially a really dangerous strike duo.

[Beach_Red]

Agreed, although I don't think it will get to the point wherein the season will be down the tubes. If Mariner is winless out of the gate next season, I doubt he'll last more than 5 games.

But that's still giving up on next season as it means the entire off-season and pre-season were lost. That's the kind of 'safe' managing that MLSE love to do which is why the team is where it is.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Fully fit Koevermans and Hassli may be potentially a really dangerous strike duo.

I agree but what do you think the odds of that happening are? I would say pretty slim.

[Smokecell]

I feel like Hassli and Koevs fill the same roll at striker and honestly can't see them pairing up well. I think they need to be paired with a pacy finisher (no not Wiedeman) to maximize their effectiveness. These are big guys that can hold up the ball and finish when called upon but that's the thing - hold the ball up for who? I don't think they compliment eachother up top as a strike pair.

[starter]

Signing Hassli is like throwing good money after bad. It is only to show how convinced the FO they had pulled off a 'good' trade with Va. It is why these clowns had to be fired yesterday.

[TOBOR !]

I feel like Hassli and Koevs fill the same roll at striker and honestly can't see them pairing up well. I think they need to be paired with a pacy finisher (no not Wiedeman) to maximize their effectiveness. These are big guys that can hold up the ball and finish when called upon but that's the thing - hold the ball up for who? I don't think they compliment eachother up top as a strike pair.

you mean like Plata ?

[Smokecell]

you mean like Plata ?

I wouldn't call Plata a striker by any means and don't think he fits the bill as to what we need up front. I'd love for Payne to come over with Chris Pontius...if only.

[McBrace]

You'd think but it was like when Earl was filling the void before the Winter/Mariner team was announced. He shopped the 1st round pick for Nathan Sturgis.

He couldn't have had a say on it, or discussions leading up to it, as he was technically still with DC United. That would put him in a conflict.

Maybe a case of when the cat's away.

It just never ends does it. Why wouldn't uncle Tom just have the no mind (Earl) hold off one day if they were that close to hiring a new prez?.. I hope they give the new prez a larger knife and some back armour with his business cards.

[ag futbol]

I agree but what do you think the odds of that happening are? I would say pretty slim.
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with that as well.

IF they can both stay healthy
IF someone can actually track back and play defense
IF we have someone who can provide them service
IF they actually play off each other well

I can't see it working out.

[Yohan]

I feel like Hassli and Koevs fill the same roll at striker and honestly can't see them pairing up well. I think they need to be paired with a pacy finisher (no not Wiedeman) to maximize their effectiveness. These are big guys that can hold up the ball and finish when called upon but that's the thing - hold the ball up for who? I don't think they compliment eachother up top as a strike pair.

Kovermans is a poacher from inside 6 yd box. Hassli can operate more on the edge of the box, deep lying support striker, especially with his long shot and ability to hold the ball on the ground. (not so good in the air though)

[Phil]

Kovermans is a poacher from inside 6 yd box. Hassli can operate more on the edge of the box, deep lying support striker, especially with his long shot and ability to hold the ball on the ground. (not so good in the air though)

That is the way I am seeing this pairing working as well. 2 guys with size that will be problematic for backlines (given they are healthy) that both have excellent first touches. Watching Hassli this year, he really holds up the ball well and gets position on the edge and middle of the box. With Kouvermans lurking for high balls and spills it really could be a productive pairing.

Novel talking about footy again. I like that :D

[Yohan]

I want to share this Kevin Payne story from a DC United Supporter

***

19 May 2001
Crew Stadium
Cowlumbus, OH

Post Game

Me (Weaving ever so slightly): How the hell do we get back downtown from this place?
Buddy (Weaving even more slightly): Dunno, where are the cabs? The bus? What kind of backwater is this?
Me: Excuse me Mister can we catch a ride back downtown with you (repeat a dozen times)
Mister: No. (repeat a dozen times)
Buddy: Excuse me fellow United supporter can we catch a ride back downtown? (repeat half a dozen times)
Fellow United Supporter: Sorry car full (repeat half a dozen times).
Me (Listing slightly to port now. Parking lot almost empty. MeridianFC very sad.): Hey, isn't that the DCU team bus?
Buddy (listing slightly to starboard): Yes, I believe it is.
Me (approach bus door, knock on bus door): Excuse me kind bus driver, we're two lost and lonely DCU fans who have no way to get downtown, could we just, you know catch a ride to the city limits?
Bus Driver: No way, no how.

Buddy and I walking away, heads down, contemplating the long dark trek back on the side of I-71.

Kevin Payne: Hey, is it just you two?
Me: Er, yes.
Kevin Payne: Get on the bus.

Thank you for 17 years of service and looking out for the fans.

[Phil]

^^^ Sounds like he would be a fit.

We need more buses though. :D

[Ultra & Proud]

That is the way I am seeing this pairing working as well. 2 guys with size that will be problematic for backlines (given they are healthy) that both have excellent first touches. Watching Hassli this year, he really holds up the ball well and gets position on the edge and middle of the box. With Kouvermans lurking for high balls and spills it really could be a productive pairing.

Novel talking about footy again. I like that :D


Exactly. They are nowhere near being the same player. I think it's just an over simplification of player and position. Sure they are both big but both attack in different ways. Hassli generally plays farther withdrawn than Koevs ever is and as said, Koev is usually lurking in the box. Now you get a solid AM behind them and we're in business. Silva is not that AM either.

[TOBOR !]

^^^ Sounds like he would be a fit.

We need more buses though. :D

just use the one PM throws everybody under.

[gets hat]

[ensco]

That is the way I am seeing this pairing working as well. 2 guys with size that will be problematic for backlines (given they are healthy) that both have excellent first touches. Watching Hassli this year, he really holds up the ball well and gets position on the edge and middle of the box. With Kouvermans lurking for high balls and spills it really could be a productive pairing.

Novel talking about footy again. I like that :D

I can't think of any team anywhere ever, that made two big target men up front work. I think they are damn near identical, personally.

Happy to be discussing this also.

[DangerRed]

A brave man, this Kevin Payne.
"Toronto (5-21-8) missed the playoffs for the sixth straight year since joining the league in 2007. This season, the club posted franchise worsts for wins (five), losses (21), points (23), goals against (62) and winless string (14)."

[Yohan]

I can't think of any team anywhere ever, that made two big target men up front work. I think they are damn near identical, personally.

Happy to be discussing this also.
I don't think Koeverman is a target man. He doesn't seem to play like one?

Also, when Wondo wasn't playing, Gordon/Lenhart combo worked for SJ...

[Ultra & Proud]

Also, when Wondo wasn't playing, Gordon/Lenhart combo worked for SJ...

And Koev/Hassli > Gordon/Lehart by a country mile.

[West220Side]

IMO Kevin Payne (if rumors are true) needs to roll in here like an old west sheriff, draw down on Mariner and Cochrane, and open fire.
Cochrane & Mariner out before any more major trades coming/going can be made. I agree with many saying Thomas Rongen and Bob de Klerk get moved in the organization again, and we're blast-off for next season boys.

[Detroit_TFC]

Payne is not getting rid of Mariner. Even if day one he wants to, he won't. It is almost December. He is not going to bring in a new guy 2 months before preseason. Also, he is going to want to see for himself if the problems stem from squad issues or Mariner/other staff issues.

[ensco]

I don't think Koeverman is a target man. He doesn't seem to play like one?

Also, when Wondo wasn't playing, Gordon/Lenhart combo worked for SJ...

Re Koevs, that is sort of true.

Re SJ, disagree. Lenhart can run. He has real wheels. His speed tends to not be noticed, because he is such a pest.

[Yohan]

Big bird has almost been used exclusively as a target man by his managers. He bangs bodies and fights for balls in the air because hes good at that

[Oldtimer]

I miss the most important news of the year!!!!!

Kevin Payne, if given the keys, will totally remake TFC.

As someone who followed DC before TFC came along, you guys have no idea how big this is.

Kevin Payne being involved cannot be compared in any way to MoJo.

This is the biggest news this year, maybe ever. The problem is, no one will recognize it outside of a few MLS geeks.



Let's not jump to conclusions. If Payne keeps Cochrane, I would conclude that nothing has changed. I do not care that Cochrane used to work for Payne, it's irrelevant.

Not true, if Payne moves him to a more appropriate role, there is nothing wrong with Cochrane at TFC, The problem is that Cochrane is incompetent as a GM. Personally, I'd use him as the team's travel agent.

[Oldtimer]

My prediction is he will keep Mariner for now, but Mariner is under notice. The first losing streak, Payne will throw him under the bus and back it back and forth a few times. Then, Thomas Rongen can't be too far behind as the new coach, at least on an interim basis. He and Payne have similar perspectives on football, provided they can get along it could be a really fruitful business relationship.

[TFC07]

So this bad news for Mariner and Co, but good news for us? This is a good hire IMO. Kudos to ML$E for hiring a well experienced president. Let's see how much power/control this new president will have with this club.

[Oldtimer]

So this bad news for Mariner and Co, but good news for us? This is a good hire IMO. Kudos to ML$E for hiring a well experienced president. Let's see how much power/control this new president will have with this club.

That's the key thing. If Anselmi can give him the autonomy that the Leafs and the Raptors have, then things are finally looking up. If Anselmi micromanages him, then nothing good will happen.

I think even Anselmi realizes that things need to change. "Cyclical" only works as an excuse for a little while.

[TFC07]

That's the key thing. If Anselmi can give him the autonomy that the Leafs and the Raptors have, then things are finally looking up. If Anselmi micromanages him, then nothing good will happen.
This is why I don't want to get my hopes up right now.

[__wowza]

just use the one PM throws everybody under.

[gets hat]


you're on today my friend.

[ManUtd4ever]

Anselmi will grant Payne full autonomy. Logic dictates that an executive of Payne's stature (by MLS standards) would never agree to terms otherwise.

The only negative aspect of this potential hiring is that Payne will be most likely be saddled with Mariner to start the season as opposed to starting his tenure with a clean slate, in what has become an incredibly frustrating pattern for all of MLSE's sports franchises as of late.

[starter]

I wonder for how long Payne knew he was coming here, and if he already has a new coach in mind.

[Redcoe15]

I am outwarly optimistically cautious about this hiring. Kevin Payne has the perfect MLS pedigree and league success this team needs to turn things around and get them to be winners. But this is Toronto FC we're talking about, the elephant's graveyard for reputations. If the FO gives him the control he needs to operate, and they stay the hell away from him (Anselmi, you assface, I'm looking at you!), then success finally is at hand. If not, then it's the same old shit we have to put up with.

[ensco]

Thomas Rongen can't be too far behind as the new coach.

I don't get why this is such a widely held view. Payne may know Rongen well but may well know Tom Soehn, Curt Onalfo and Peter Nowak even better, all of whom were coaches in MLS much more recently than Rongen was.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't get why this is such a widely held view. Payne may know Rongen well but may well know Tom Soehn, Curt Onalfo and Peter Nowak even better, all of whom were coaches in MLS much more recently than Rongen was.

I'm still confused as to why it's become this weird manifest destiny among a growing number of supporters that not only is Rongen going to be our coach, but he's going to be an amazing one - and I have nothing against him whatsoever.

Anyway, this is exactly the kind of guy we needed to be named "President", but it's only half of the equation. How much power and autonomy he gets is what matters, and we have no answer for that yet.

Still, I'm pleased.

- Scott

[flatpicker]

I really want to be happy about this news. But too many times this team has gotten me excited over a new addition to the club, only to have it all fall apart later. Please, soccer gods, please let something go right for this team!

[Alonso]

Just a matter of time for Rongen to become head coach of club. He's itchy to move on from academy for a while now
As for knowledge of Canadian soccer.......not a priority. Experience in this US league (made up of mostly American players and for US national team benefit) is whats needed to put a winner on the field- full stop. This move has the leagues hands all over it to stop the downward spiral of TFC.

Garber has said and confirms exactly this: "I've been a party to some of the changes that they're going to make, that they hopefully will be able to announce shortly that we are hopeful will get them back on track." - Garber

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/11/26/mls_commissioner_tfc_bold_moves/

[[NBF]]

A brave man, this Kevin Payne.
"Toronto (5-21-8) missed the playoffs for the sixth straight year since joining the league in 2007. This season, the club posted franchise worsts for wins (five), losses (21), points (23), goals against (62) and winless string (14)."

So Brave:

http://www.mrsanotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/anna-nicole-marshall.jpg

I only hope he survives the first season.

[Shakes McQueen]

Garber has said and confirms exactly this: "I've been a party to some of the changes that they're going to make, that they hopefully will be able to announce shortly that we are hopeful will get them back on track." - Garber

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/11/26/mls_commissioner_tfc_bold_moves/

It's possible you're misunderstanding what he meant by being "party" to them, considering how the league works. Further down the article:


The commissioner said almost the same thing when asked about Toronto during last year's call.

Entirely possible he simply meant he was aware of impending moves, and if he said the same thing last year despite no management shakeup of any kind, I'd say it's likely.

- Scott

[Yohan]

speculation will lead to nowhere? I'm just waiting to see what happens

[TFCwestcan]

I really want to be happy about this news. But too many times this team has gotten me excited over a new addition to the club, only to have it all fall apart later. Please, soccer gods, please let something go right (for a change) for this team!

There's dare I say it a note of optimism in this thread.

[jloome]

I can't think of any team anywhere ever, that made two big target men up front work. I think they are damn near identical, personally.

Happy to be discussing this also.

They're not really target men, more what they'd call a complete striker. Koevermans plays the target role in that when we played him at the top of a 433 he held the ball up well, but he's a poacher with good feet; Hassli is actually more dangerous outside of the six-yard box than in, when he has space to create something, and he's definitley not a target forward; his principle role isn't receiving and holding up the ball, and banging in headers from corners.

It could work. I think one problem is that the pairing of a fast forward with a big guy creates space for the big guy. We could play a wide diamond, I suppose, with a small, fast hole player behind them and the other midfielder as a straight-up anchor man in front of the backline; it's not very flexible but if you have the right players it can work.

[Alonso]

It's possible you're misunderstanding what he meant by being "party" to them, considering how the league works. Further down the article:



Entirely possible he simply meant he was aware of impending moves, and if he said the same thing last year despite no management shakeup of any kind, I'd say it's likely.

- Scott


It's entirely possible, but being a "party" to something and being "aware" of something are two different things. Being a party to something means being involved, being aware means knowing of it.

It's entirely possible that Garber misspoke.

But the way he said it, to me, implies that he had his hands in some the 'bold' changes we are going to be seeing.

[Oldtimer]

There's dare I say it a note of optimism in this thread. Let's face it: based on his record, no one expected Anselmi to get anyone remotely qualified. Seeing someone like Payne gives some cause for hope.

[Shakes McQueen]

But by that token, considering he apparently said pretty much the same thing last year, what was he a "party" to last winter? As far as I remember, we had no actual changes at the management level.

It's possible you're right, but he still could have simply meant he was "party" to them, in the way our single entity league is a "party" to pretty much everything. I don't want to parse his language too finely.

At any rate, whatever. It seems to be a pretty good choice, no matter how it went down. But the proof will be in the power he gets.

- Scott

[Alonso]

But by that token, considering he apparently said pretty much the same thing last year, what was he a "party" to last winter? As far as I remember, we had no actual changes at the management level.

It's possible you're right, but he still could have simply meant he was "party" to them, in the way our single entity league is a "party" to pretty much everything. I don't want to parse his language too finely.

At any rate, whatever. It seems to be a pretty good choice, no matter how it went down. But the proof will be in the power he gets.

- Scott


That's the thing, I don't think Garber said anything similar of the sort last year. The columnist/writer is simply mistaken and certainly didn't provide the quote from last year except to say that Garber believed in MLSE. That is the only similarity between what Garber said between last year and this year.

The part about being a party to the upcoming bold changes is entirely new from Don Garber.

And after Anselmi's track record thus far of getting qualified managers for this club, it would make all the sense in the world that the Don threw him and MLSE a bone on this one.

[Shakes McQueen]

And after Anselmi's track record thus far of getting qualified managers for this club, it would make all the sense in the world that the Don threw him and MLSE a bone on this one.

But remember it was the league who recommended he hire Mo Johnston. He didn't come up with that name on his own.

- Scott

[Oldtimer]

But remember it was the league who recommended he hire Mo Johnston. He didn't come up with that name on his own.

- Scott Mo was actually quite a good choice for a first year coach.
Given that few US coaches wanted to come to an unproven Canadian market, and that a big part of the job was selling the team, it was a logical fit. How Tom ever thought he'd make a good GM, we'll never know.

[ensco]

Mo was totally different. The league can't really just "deliver" a sitting club president to another club.

Simplest explanation is usually the best. This feels to me like it's just all about the benjamins, Payne is cashing in, and Anselmi is sufficiently scarred by the SSH/renewal battle that he ponied up and pulled the trigger. (I say that last bit because I didn't renew, and my rep called this aft and was all over my wife about the "big news".)

All just speculation of course.

[Yohan]

Mo was actually quite a good choice for a first year coach.
Given that few US coaches wanted to come to an unproven Canadian market, and that a big part of the job was selling the team, it was a logical fit. How Tom ever thought he'd make a good GM, we'll never know.
And Bob Gansler. I wish it was Gansler as coach instead of Mo

[Shakes McQueen]

Mo was totally different. The league can't really just "deliver" a sitting club president to another club.

Simplest explanation is usually the best. This feels to me like it's just all about the benjamins, Payne is cashing in, and Anselmi is sufficiently scarred by the SSH/renewal battle that he ponied up and pulled the trigger. (I say that last bit because I didn't renew, and my rep called this aft and was all over my wife about the "big news".)

All just speculation of course.

I'm with you on this. I'm sure in a bout of panic, Anselmi just offered him the most greenbacks to do the job.

- Scott

[SoccMan]

Maybe Payne can lure his old coach at D.C. United Bruce Arena from LA, Bruce was the D.C. coach for D.C.'s two MLS Cup championships in 96 and 97.

[ag futbol]

Re Koevs, that is sort of true.

Re SJ, disagree. Lenhart can run. He has real wheels. His speed tends to not be noticed, because he is such a pest.
Well that and EVERYBODY playing up front is benefiting from good service. I don't see anybody on our roster right now who is going to get these guys the ball.

[Cashcleaner]

wasn't the problem with MoJo the fact that he meddled?

The problem was that he meddled and often had no fucking clue as to what he was doing. If the net results are positive, I'm okay with an executive putting his hands in the pie once in a while.


i KNOW NOTHING OF THIS GUY BUT NO DOUBTING HIS CREDENTIALS. tHE COMMENTS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE piece are telling. Most fans pissed off he's leaving.
Impressed.

Agreed. And as much as it makes me sound like an asshole, the more angry and frustrated those fans are, the more I feel good about this deal for TFC. I do feel bad for the fans at DC who lost a great club President - and a man who seemed to truly care about the supporters, but my excitement for the future outweighs any other feelings on this.


Just a matter of time for Rongen to become head coach of club. He's itchy to move on from academy for a while now
As for knowledge of Canadian soccer.......not a priority. Experience in this US league (made up of mostly American players and for US national team benefit) is whats needed to put a winner on the field- full stop. This move has the leagues hands all over it to stop the downward spiral of TFC.

I agree with that last part. TFC really set the bar in terms of revenue and interest in it's first two years and the league had to have said something to MLSE about their recent failures. We used to pack 21,000 into BMO Field, but during many games this year I would have been surprised if I saw more than 15,000 in the stands. I don't know what the liklihood is of any league involvement in this whole deal, but it's plausible suggestions were made.


Revert to Season 1 STH prices - Check

Hire a qualified president - Check

Replace Mariner - ?

Oh well, two out of three ain't bad.

I think nothing is off the table right now. Anselmi has already made a few hints about Mariner's position with the club. Obviously, nothing is set in stone right now, but if Mariner was sacked a week from now it wouldn't surprise me in the least.


Thank you Belfast Boy for all your work last season.

Hear! Hear! This is the one point Belfast and many others have been repeating over and over again for quite a while now, but he's definitely the guy who deserves the most credit for his dogged efforts. The only downside is that it took so long for us to finally get to this point!


I want to share this Kevin Payne story from a DC United Supporter

***

19 May 2001
Crew Stadium
Cowlumbus, OH

Post Game

Me (Weaving ever so slightly): How the hell do we get back downtown from this place?
Buddy (Weaving even more slightly): Dunno, where are the cabs? The bus? What kind of backwater is this?
Me: Excuse me Mister can we catch a ride back downtown with you (repeat a dozen times)
Mister: No. (repeat a dozen times)
Buddy: Excuse me fellow United supporter can we catch a ride back downtown? (repeat half a dozen times)
Fellow United Supporter: Sorry car full (repeat half a dozen times).
Me (Listing slightly to port now. Parking lot almost empty. MeridianFC very sad.): Hey, isn't that the DCU team bus?
Buddy (listing slightly to starboard): Yes, I believe it is.
Me (approach bus door, knock on bus door): Excuse me kind bus driver, we're two lost and lonely DCU fans who have no way to get downtown, could we just, you know catch a ride to the city limits?
Bus Driver: No way, no how.

Buddy and I walking away, heads down, contemplating the long dark trek back on the side of I-71.

Kevin Payne: Hey, is it just you two?
Me: Er, yes.
Kevin Payne: Get on the bus.

Thank you for 17 years of service and looking out for the fans.

This is how you take care of your paying customers. Actually, fuck that. This is how you be a decent human being.

[Oldtimer]

This is how you take care of your paying customers. Actually, fuck that. This is how you be a decent human being.

That sums it up. That really sums up the problem with the FO culture that Mo established and has carried on to this day. They really didn't care about us, either as paying customers or as human beings. Everything I read about Payne says that culture is about to change. Wouldn't it be nice if Phil could just talk to the FO and immediately get our concerns met? Maybe the days of endless protests are finally over.

[tfcleeds]

Mo was totally different. The league can't really just "deliver" a sitting club president to another club.

Simplest explanation is usually the best. This feels to me like it's just all about the benjamins, Payne is cashing in, and Anselmi is sufficiently scarred by the SSH/renewal battle that he ponied up and pulled the trigger. (I say that last bit because I didn't renew, and my rep called this aft and was all over my wife about the "big news".)

All just speculation of course.

Of course, it's likely cash is a big part of the reason he's being lured here, but I think that after 17 years with DC, he probably is looking for a new challenge as well. At least, I hope that's a big motivation for his coming here. Bringing this club to respectability would be a big feather in his cap.

[Auzzy]

Officially confirmed now, with 1:30pm presser to announce Payne as a new soccer president for TFC. Looks like a very good pickup for TFC, I'm pleasantly surprised! RE the reasons for Payne to come -- there are many changes afoot at DC, Payne likely realized it's a good time to move on. Also there are hints he was better at the soccer side of things than the business side at DC, so with ownership changes there, they likely wanted to shake things up. God knows folks don't need to be worried about the business side of things at MLSE (espeically if on-field results can finally materialize).

[ensco]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, (and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control) this is about as good as the news could be. It is a truly professional, sincere effort to address the problem, which is appreciated and refreshing.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will go to some games, but will resume my real financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

[Beach_Red]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, this is about as good as the news could be.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will resume my financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

Yeah, I agree with this. It's what MLSE should have done from the very beginning instead of starting with a guy with no experience they could "train" themselves, their way. So now, years later they realize that didn't work and this is the best news possible right now. But I'm not going to renew yet, either. After years of bad decisions one good one doesn't make up for it.

And we'll have to see if Tom (and his embedded people) can really let someone else run the organization.

[tfcleeds]

Yep, that is key. Hiring of Payne in and of itself doesn't solve anything. Much depends on how much control he actually gets. Of course, part of me is hopeful that he wouldn't have come here without that assurance, and that he'd have told MLSE to shove it if he didn't get full control a la Burke or Colangelo. So fingers are crossed...

[tfcmanu]

TFC will make a formal announcement on Wednesday afternoon at a press conference at BMO Field.
.....so it will be official http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/11/27/mls_toronto_fc_tfc_kevin_payne/
Officially confirmed now, with 1:30pm presser to announce Payne as a new soccer president for TFC. Looks like a very good pickup for TFC, I'm pleasantly surprised! RE the reasons for Payne to come -- there are many changes afoot at DC, Payne likely realized it's a good time to move on. Also there are hints he was better at the soccer side of things than the business side at DC, so with ownership changes there, they likely wanted to shake things up. God knows folks don't need to be worried about the business side of things at MLSE (espeically if on-field results can finally materialize).

[Beach_Red]

Yep, that is key. Hiring of Payne in and of itself doesn't solve anything. Much depends on how much control he actually gets. Of course, part of me is hopeful that he wouldn't have come here without that assurance, and that he'd have told MLSE to shove it if he didn't get full control a la Burke or Colangelo. So fingers are crossed...

No doubt, the hiring looks good. Is this the first time TFC hired someone who wasn't unemployed at the time? That, and his track record, makes it likely that he was able to negotiate for a much better deal than previous hires. It seems likely that the position of president isn't just in name only. So yeah, fingers crossed...

[Ultra & Proud]

and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control

Not true. From what I heard a few times in the past from Anselmi was that Cochrane's primary attribute was basically being a 'capologist'. Every team that plays in a salary capped league usually has one on hand to balance the budget. I will say this though; I think Cochrane is a poor GM and makes poor roster decisions but, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

[brad]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, (and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control) this is about as good as the news could be. It is a truly professional, sincere effort to address the problem, which is appreciated and refreshing.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will go to some games, but will resume my real financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

Same here - and I told my rep as much. It's a good start, but they need to stand behind it, and not make even more jerk knee decisions if things aren't rosey at first and they need a sell for renewals.

[brad]

Not true. From what I heard a few times in the past from Anselmi was that Cochrane's primary attribute was basically being a 'capologist'. Every team that plays in a salary capped league usually has one on hand to balance the budget. I will say this though; I think Cochrane is a poor GM and makes poor roster decisions but, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

I'll also add, Cochrane worked for Payne in the past. So if he keeps him, it could simply be an indication that he has a use for him.

[ryan]

Not true. From what I heard a few times in the past from Anselmi was that Cochrane's primary attribute was basically being a 'capologist'. Every team that plays in a salary capped league usually has one on hand to balance the budget. I will say this though; I think Cochrane is a poor GM and makes poor roster decisions but, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

I'm not so sure I'm gonna applaud a guy for letting contracts expire to space is freed.

[DangerRed]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, (and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control) this is about as good as the news could be. It is a truly professional, sincere effort to address the problem, which is appreciated and refreshing.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will go to some games, but will resume my real financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

Samesies. I'll help fuel the "aftermarket" this upcoming season, with a wait-and-see attitude. Plus a couple of years from now, my boy will be old enough to bring to games.. Ah, a new dad can dream.

Back on topic, it'd be fantastic if The Earl Himself also announced he was leaving TFC immediately to pursue other opportunities. And to whoever called him a "capologist," how has done at that job? Our cap situation is beyond fucked and all he's done is not re-signed guys to free up room. Big fucking deal. A well-placed rooster could do that job, given the proper equipment.

[ensco]

For those who think Cochrane staying would be OK, I think there is a basic confusion about the nature of the jobs in an FO.

Yes, the job is a "capologist" job, and a lot else besides. It's critical. The person we need is not someone who has primary responsibility for the mess we are in.

They are long-term jobs, it's not like the on-field manager, the people there are expected to last as long as, and be candidates to be the successor to, the GM/President. The GM/President must have 100% sole discretion to pick those people. It is a deeply personal and idiosyncratic choice, and traditional credentials are not necessarily important. (Remember, AA got this job from Ricciardi when he was maybe 28 years old!)

I would expect that Payne would be considering candidates from the DCU FO (unless his termination provisions forbid it) as well as from all over the league, and maybe the world.

I don't know Payne from Adam, but imho, given who he is, there is simply no way that Cochrane could be Payne's first choice. None. Payne is not going to look at what has happened here and come to any other conclusion.

Cochrane was a loyal soldier for Anselmi. I suspect some of the episodes we hold him responsible for (Dero/Celtic, Sturgis trade, Plata loan) were not what they seem, ie he was taking bullets for the FO as a whole. I don't hate the guy.

But this is how it is when this level of suckitude happens on your watch. Until today, Anselmi was the soccer president, and Cochrane had that supporting role for Anselmi, but it has to be over.

[Oldtimer]

from the Sportsnet article:


The 59-year-old executive helped put together the original investment group for D.C. United, and was the team's first general manager. He also hired Bruce Arena, a successful coach at the University of Virginia, giving him his first head coaching job in MLS.

Just pointing this out... bringing Bruce Arena to MLS was just the sort of stroke of genius that this team needs.

Also note in this article that Thomas Rongen won an MLS Cup under Payne in 1999. Payne had 4 MLS Cups (count them), and many other honours.

[TOBOR !]

$20 says TFC thinks they've signed him, but he ends up somewhere else. lulz.

There's still time for this to happen, folks !

[spark]

I'm not so sure I'm gonna applaud a guy for letting contracts expire to space is freed.

Yeah seriously wtf is anyone actually applauding anything from him? Sorry but all our moves once Aron was gone were completely short-sighted with no long term vision attached- especially when it comes to salaries. If Toronto weren't desperately trying to save a season that was already gone we wouldn't have signed Hassli or brought on a CB for triple or quadruple the cost of this year's defender of the year.

[Greatest Ripoff]

, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

And could you imagine how much cap space there would be if they weren't over paying for Eckersley and O'Dea? The teams lack of ability to work within the cap has always held them back. Their cap management has been a failure so far. How many players currently under contract with TFC offer value for money? Morgan and Dunfield are all I can think off.

[Canary10]

And could you imagine how much cap space there would be if they weren't over paying for Eckersley and O'Dea? The teams lack of ability to work within the cap has always held them back. Their cap management has been a failure so far. How many players currently under contract with TFC offer value for money? Morgan and Dunfield are all I can think off.

Milos Kocic at $44,000 is pretty damn good value. Poor guy needs a raise to raise those triplets out of poverty.

[Oldtimer]

Here's a view from DC fans:

http://www.blackandredunited.com/2012/11/27/3700240/kevin-payne-leaves-dc-united-toronto-fc

[Ultra & Proud]

Say what you will about our cap situation but to my knowledge this is the first time we've been well under the league max without the use of allocation since the very beginning. And yes he let expiring contracts go but these were carried over from the previous regime(s) that overpaid certain players and decided to keep them after the last CBA when some of their contracts became guaranteed. Now a lot of the recent signings aren't great but at least they were cheap and not guaranteed. In the past we'd have thrown cash hand over fist to whatever various losers they could fish out of foreign leagues and overpay them (Usanov, Hscanovics, Ricketts, Robert, etc). At least this time, no matter how shit we were, they rode it out despite the amount of whining from the fan base and actually resisted the typical TFC knee jerk reactions that everyone complains about yet at the same time still demand/expect.

No matter what, we'll be better off for that this coming season.

[T-boy]

Payne is EXACTLY the type of Pres we need at TFC. I hope this does all get signed and sealed.

[ensco]

^Ultra and Proud, what team are you talking about?

Our cap situation is terrible. We have zero room to do anything, we have $1.75 million in cap space tied up in 5 players, 3 of whom are injury-prone veteran guys you can't count on, the other two are defenders (a position where most MLS teams find good players for $100-200K a year).

All we will be doing this offseason is shuffling around marginal guys, and drafting a good player or two (something I suddenly feel a LOT better about, DCU is getting hosed by us in terms of the MLS draft, we get all their intel now).

But no team in MLS has less cap flexibility.

[Greatest Ripoff]

At least this time, no matter how shit we were, they rode it out despite the amount of whining from the fan base and actually resisted the typical TFC knee jerk reactions that everyone complains about yet at the same time still demand/expect.

They rode it our by trading a first round pick for an injury prone dp? I really don't know how you can think Toronto has done a good job with the cap. There are still many players under contract with Toronto that are over paid and wouldn't be on winning MLS teams for those wages.

[Ultra & Proud]

^Ultra and Proud, what team are you talking about?

Our cap situation is terrible. We have zero room to do anything, we have $1.75 million in cap space tied up in 5 players, 3 of whom are injury-prone veteran guys you can't count on, the other two are defenders (a position where most MLS teams find good players for $100-200K a year).


As far as I see only 3 of those players are for sure returning next year.

Cap Hits:

Hassli $350k
Eck $220k
O' Dea $430k


$1 mil total. Don't count others before you see them out on the pitch in pre-season. Not to count allocation but we do get the wooden spoon allowance and that'll eat a chunk of that. Now if we sign players for what they are worth and not overpay them, we'll have approx $2 mil available in cap space. In keeping with proper MLS salary structures that is very doable and there is really no reason not to get it done.


Compare to the start of 2012 when we had $1.5 mil on 3 DPs and Eckersley not to mention another $500k on Harden, Cann, Johnson, and Soolsma. There's $2 mil of the cap gone on 8 players of whom only 4 really played much less started. That is the cap mismanagement of which I speak. So yeah, we're better off now.

[Ultra & Proud]

They rode it our by trading a first round pick for an injury prone dp? I really don't know how you can think Toronto has done a good job with the cap. There are still many players under contract with Toronto that are over paid and wouldn't be on winning MLS teams for those wages.
Who may well be our only 'proven' striker for the first quarter/half of next season. Without a legit striker we will get buried before the season gets going and have another 2012 on our hands. You can't trot out Silva and forward and expect goals. You can hope for goals but hope don't win shit. At least Hassli has a somewhat proven strike rate, draws defenders, and if he breaks down due to injury it probably would be after Koevermans returns, if he does at all, or be near the summer window when reinforcements from overseas may become available.

[spark]

As far as I see only 3 of those players are for sure returning next year.

Cap Hits:

Hassli $350k
Eck $220k
O' Dea $430k


$1 mil total. Don't count others before you see them out on the pitch in pre-season.

At the same token - Don't count them out before they don't show up. You are counting money that you don't have 100% - the wise move would be to assume Frings will be back as that is the only message we've received from the team, and that Koevs will be back mid-summer. Once they say they're gone, ok this discussion makes sense, but until that point sorry we should be looking at the $$ with those two players included.

And on a sidenote - you've professed Cochrane putting us in a great state re $$$ but as noted it was from players released and now an imaginary scenario you've dreamt up where two of our DPs are just going to vanish next season.

[ensco]

As far as I see only 3 of those players are for sure returning next year.

Cap Hits:

Hassli $350k
Eck $220k
O' Dea $430k


$1 mil total. Don't count others before you see them out on the pitch in pre-season. .

Be real. What precedent/reasoning could you possibly point to on this? Frings and Koevermans will be here even if they arrive on hospital gurneys. I would bet anyone $100 on it.

[Ajax TFC]

Koevermans and Frings are both on Garanteed contracts, which means at least one of them is coming back, likely both of them

[Phil]

Frings will be back here in January, Kovermans is expected mid April / May.

[jloome]

Not true. From what I heard a few times in the past from Anselmi was that Cochrane's primary attribute was basically being a 'capologist'. Every team that plays in a salary capped league usually has one on hand to balance the budget. I will say this though; I think Cochrane is a poor GM and makes poor roster decisions but, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

If the most successful executive in the league needs a former PR flak to do basic math, we've got even worse problems than we thought. Earl is smooth, and charming. Those are his skills. Put him back in charge of communications, as he was in DC. Reporters love him. He wants to be a soccer executive; but his first and only two real moves when given reins were to take Nathan Sturgis and to tell the public DeRo wasn't going to Celtic. His third was to point out that Joao Plata was still with the club the day we got pictures of him pulling on a Jersey in Ecuador.

[jloome]

Be real. What precedent/reasoning could you possibly point to on this? Frings and Koevermans will be here even if they arrive on hospital gurneys. I would bet anyone $100 on it.

You can buy out DP deals. I have this creeping feeling that all the Hassli love and hype and continual reminders that Danny will take longer to recover means we'll end up with the former but not the latter, so they can sign someone younger. Given that he's the best striker in the league when healthy (I mean literally, by strike rate) that would seem nutty. But I have a feeling from the way they're behaving that that might be the route.

[Ultra & Proud]

At the same token - Don't count them out before they don't show up. You are counting money that you don't have 100% - the wise move would be to assume Frings will be back as that is the only message we've received from the team, and that Koevs will be back mid-summer. Once they say they're gone, ok this discussion makes sense, but until that point sorry we should be looking at the $$ with those two players included.

And on a sidenote - you've professed Cochrane putting us in a great state re $$$ but as noted it was from players released and now an imaginary scenario you've dreamt up where two of our DPs are just going to vanish next season.

Okay so say they both are fully healthy and return. Then that's $1.65 mil on 5 players who will all play and start rather than the $2 mil at the start of last season which was spent on the previously mentioned 8 players, of whom only 4 really played, much less started. Still better than how we started cap-wise last year or am I dreaming that up too?

[Ben - D.O.W.]

I'm clearly in a bad place with this team. After hearing the Payne news I was genuinely excited, finally some progress. Then I keep thinking - I can't wait for the presser where they announce it's a one year deal, with team options for more. It's great not to trust your team to make any decisions that don't end up being super bone headed.

Please TFC - don't f#$% this up.

[Ultra & Proud]

Earl is smooth, and charming.

You think so? I never got that from him. All that came off as fake. He is a used car salesman at best and a snake oil salesman at worst. Never really trusted anything he ever said.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm clearly in a bad place with this team. After hearing the Payne news I was genuinely excited, finally some progress. Then I keep thinking - I can't wait for the presser where they announce it's a one year deal, with team options for more. It's great not to trust your team to make any decisions that don't end up being super bone headed.

Please TFC - don't f#$% this up.
I'm not interested in digging up details on the interwebs but what did they give Colangelo and Burke? 3 year deals or 5 year deals? I expect pretty much the same deal as these two in length and power. Anselmi will give his usual 'handing him the keys to the franchise' line and assure us that they have an experienced man in charge who'll set everything straight and that he'll have the full backing of the board. The usual stuff that I've heard twice already from the Hockey and Basketball teams. Hopefully Payne has more success than those other two.

[Pookie]

I don't know Payne from Adam, but imho, given who he is, there is simply no way that Cochrane could be Payne's first choice. None. Payne is not going to look at what has happened here and come to any other conclusion.

Cochrane was a loyal soldier for Anselmi. I suspect some of the episodes we hold him responsible for (Dero/Celtic, Sturgis trade, Plata loan) were not what they seem, ie he was taking bullets for the FO as a whole. I don't hate the guy.


Just to further your theory, if the league was involved in facilitating the move from DC to Toronto and is genuine in its interest in seeing the team succeed, I'd wager they haven't forgotten the DeRo situation (amongst others) which, IMO, effectively embarrassed them. If Payne is on the fence, the league most likely isn't. In the world of disclosure, any concerns regarding how TFC is run would have been made crystal clear as Payne will have expectations to fix them.

Payne had to ask some difficult questions in the interview process, including the flexibility he would enjoy. From the Academy to Supporters to Scouting, his influence over DC United is huge. I can't see the league wanting anything but autonomy for Payne and I can't see Payne accepting any less.

On a different note, if the league is involved, I wonder how they would look at a Mellberg situation this time around if Payne lobbied hard for a defender like him?

[Pookie]

I'm not interested in digging up details on the interwebs but what did they give Colangelo and Burke? 3 year deals or 5 year deals?

Not sure about Colangelo but Burke came in on a 6 year deal.

[Canary10]

I'm not interested in digging up details on the interwebs but what did they give Colangelo and Burke? 3 year deals or 5 year deals? I expect pretty much the same deal as these two in length and power. Anselmi will give his usual 'handing him the keys to the franchise' line and assure us that they have an experienced man in charge who'll set everything straight and that he'll have the full backing of the board. The usual stuff that I've heard twice already from the Hockey and Basketball teams. Hopefully Payne has more success than those other two.

One of the positives of this hire is that he spent 17 years at his previous club. He is one of the few people who has earned the time to really implement something long term - it would be almost impossible for TFC to fire him without bringing even more disrepute on themselves. He's about as ensconced as any four-year-term mayor. Well, most...

[Pookie]

Again with this cap stuff? ;) The numbers you are quoting aren't the numbers MLS uses. They are what the union uses to give agents and players an idea as to the value of contracts. MLS's calculations are different.

Biggest downfall to PM/EC's budget management is that they have significant dollars tied up in injury prone players and MLS does not provide budget relief when they go down. Danny will miss almost 1/3 of the season, this is known right now. We are paying for that. Hassli hasn't had an injury free MLS season ever and Frings has suffered injuries every year since 2008.

Average age of DPs is just under 31. Ours are 36, 34 and 31. The oldest of virtually any team.

PM/EC are rolling the dice on it because they only have 1 season to make it right. Ideally, Payne comes in and realizes that his long term interests and PM/EC's short term interests do not mesh. We need to move these contracts (buyout, trade, loan) now so that we can replace these guys with younger, healthier options during the Summer2013 & Winter 2014 transfer window.

[Beach_Red]

Just to further your theory, if the league was involved in facilitating the move from DC to Toronto and is genuine in its interest in seeing the team succeed, I'd wager they haven't forgotten the DeRo situation (amongst others) which, IMO, effectively embarrassed them. If Payne is on the fence, the league most likely isn't. In the world of disclosure, any concerns regarding how TFC is run would have been made crystal clear as Payne will have expectations to fix them.

Payne had to ask some difficult questions in the interview process, including the flexibility he would enjoy. From the Academy to Supporters to Scouting, his influence over DC United is huge. I can't see the league wanting anything but autonomy for Payne and I can't see Payne accepting any less.

On a different note, if the league is involved, I wonder how they would look at a Mellberg situation this time around if Payne lobbied hard for a defender like him?

That's a pretty big "if," though. Sure, it seems like this guy would have more pull with the league than MLSE, after all, he hasn't spend the last six years embarrassing them. He seems to understand how the league works.

The whole point here seems to be bringing in some experience and professionalism where it has been sorely lacking. But sure, anything can happen...

[Pookie]

^ very big. And considering only 1 of 53 DPs ever was a defender, it would seem unlikely.

That said, this is a single entity league and "schmoozing" for the right amount of allocation money to be applied to budgets is a necessary skill. Payne's 17 years of experience has likely upped the balance in our "schmooze account"... which is a good thing

[Ajax TFC]

On a different note, if the league is involved, I wonder how they would look at a Mellberg situation this time around if Payne lobbied hard for a defender like him?
Or perhaps Payne will bring in serviceable MLS level defenders on sensible wages and won't have to get a DP to fill that spot.

[Canary10]

President and GM is his title. Guess that puts to rest any question where the buck stops at TFC.

[DangerRed]

Says Mariner is coach of the team, someone he really respects. Sigh. Also knows Earl, got his start at DCU, etc.

[DangerRed]

First stupid fucking thing he has said: "I say to myself, what's the fun in being the manager of Real Madrid?"

[Belfast_Boy]

Says Mariner is coach of the team, someone he really respects. Sigh. Also knows Earl, got his start at DCU, etc.

I don't think it was a bad answer. he didn't give Paul a ripping endorsement. he's talking about successful experience being very important. Mariner doesn't have that.

[PopePouri]

First stupid fucking thing he has said: "I say to myself, what's the fun in being the manager of Real Madrid?"

Different motivation.

[Canary10]

Also said the coach needs to be a teacher. I don't think Mariner is that. But he'll figure it out.

[DangerRed]

Different motivation.

You don't say.

[Oldtimer]

President and GM is his title. Guess that puts to rest any question where the buck stops at TFC.

That means Earl Cochrane is going to be reassigned to other duties. We can breath easier now.

[Pookie]

Or perhaps Payne will bring in serviceable MLS level defenders on sensible wages and won't have to get a DP to fill that spot.

Touche my good man, touche.

[Ajax TFC]

So far IMO he's said everything right

[Pookie]

That means Earl Cochrane is going to be reassigned to other duties. We can breath easier now.

If Payne is GM and Mariner is coach and Earl was supposed to be helping Mariner with player acquisition and contracts… where does that leave him?

[Ben - D.O.W.]

That means Earl Cochrane is going to be reassigned to other duties. We can breath easier now.

And the people rejoiced.

[T-boy]

So far IMO he's said everything right

Payne is clearly a very smart guy. In fact, he's making Anselmi look like a bit of an idiot. I much prefer Payne's rhetoric and his way of talking. Anselmi is gruff, Payne sounds educated and respectable.

[Ajax TFC]

Lol notice how Tommy starts talking quickly when he gets asked a question that he can't answer without saying that he did a bad job

[Oldtimer]

Great question from John Molinaro to Tom, "why did it take so long?" Anselmi really squirmed at that one.

[Oldtimer]

If Payne is GM and Mariner is coach and Earl was supposed to be helping Mariner with player acquisition and contracts… where does that leave him?

Playing X-Box.

[Ultra & Proud]

If Payne is GM and Mariner is coach and Earl was supposed to be helping Mariner with player acquisition and contracts… where does that leave him?
Selling used cars?

[brad]

Earl - primary point person for players coming into the club.

[Oldtimer]

Earl is going to be the receptionist.

[Ajax TFC]

Payne is clearly a very smart guy. In fact, he's making Anselmi look like a bit of an idiot. I much prefer Payne's rhetoric and his way of talking. Anselmi is gruff, Payne sounds educated and respectable.
He speaks with the authority of someone who knows what he's talking about. It's a rare thing for us to hear here because we're used to people bullshitting press conferences and talking out of their asses because they don't really know what they're doing.

[Nuvinho]

Earl - primary point person for players coming into the club.


He will pick them up at the airport.

[Belfast_Boy]

Earl is going to be the receptionist.



nice one!

[brad]

He will pick them up at the airport.

Good idea. Arrange lodging, get them a cell phone, help them settle in.

[Oldtimer]

Believer in "character," sounds a lot like Jason Kreis! :)

[Belfast_Boy]

a system! we're getting a system and a direction!

[Pookie]

a system! we're getting a system and a direction!

In DC, that system/direction ended up being "Total Football"

[Pookie]

Now Mariner is part of the system, not sure how this can be seen as anything but somewhat of a demotion for him

[ryan]

Earl - primary point person for players coming into the club.

Coffee and donuts guy.

[ensco]

has anyone asked if Payne has 100% hire/fire authority?

[T-boy]

Payne said all the right things for me. Like his definition of principles, system, style etc. Also that he needs everybody to be pulling in the same direction and "even if he doesn't agree, he will still go in that direction". That's important. Hopefully he will be the key decision maker from now on though, which sounds like he will be.

And Earl is definitely receptionist! :D

[Ultra & Proud]

has anyone asked if Payne has 100% hire/fire authority?
I think that's what has been implied. It's his team now.

[T-boy]

I think that's what has been implied. It's his team now.

I have no doubt Payne is now the 100% overseer of all things TFC. Anselmi is now doing other things much higher up in MLSE. I don't think Payne would have come if he didn't have 100% control.

[Phil]

I liked what I heard. Seems like a breath of fresh air that this team desperatly needed.

[Oldtimer]

Paul B. has a new boss, one who cares about supporters. Things are looking up. :)

[Oldtimer]

Now Mariner is part of the system, not sure how this can be seen as anything but somewhat of a demotion for him

With his record, in England or with TFC, he's lucky to have a job.

[ag futbol]

Listening to Payne right now, this definitely sounds like the right guy to be running this team.

A lot of it is generic "sports speak", but he seems to have this issues we care about as fans nailed down pretty quickly.

[Canary10]

Good interview with Lee Godfrey. Mentioned Rongen will be more involved with direction of the first team. Some change is coming I think.

[Pookie]

Not exactly a vote of confidence on Mariner. He will have their backs but will also challenge them and implied Rongen will be more involved in decisions with the first team.

[Belfast_Boy]

I'm happy. think I can retire the ship of fools.

[Yohan]

Not exactly a vote of confidence on Mariner. He will have their backs but will also challenge them and implied Rongen will be more involved in decisions with the first team.

I don't like that. you either give the manager full control of first team, or you turf him. none of this half assed thing

[Yohan]

I'm happy. think I can retire the ship of fools.

let's wait until we see some actual results... deeds, not words

[Detroit_TFC]

TFC has a real team president now. I don't know where that will take things but it was an absolutely necessary first step.

[Super]

With his record, in England or with TFC, he's lucky to have a job.

Definitely very fortunate to still have a job with us, but I'm not sure we have much of an alternative - unless we want to continue hiring more novices to manage our team.

Payne = experience and success. Hopefully he'll know that the same is needed for the head coaching role.

[ensco]

Just because Earl's not GM doesn't mean he is sidelined. Far from it.