Payne leaving D.C. United to take over as Toronto FC president

[Super]

TFC has a real team president now. I don't know where that will take things but it was an absolutely necessary first step.

I honestly think that this is EXACTLY what we needed - and may spell the end of our troubles. Payne would not have allowed Mo Johnston to run amok with our club for four years, nor would he have allowed novices to manage our team either. I honestly think that the number one problem (which used to be Anselmi) has been fixed with the signing of Payne. I'm extremely encouraged. It's also extra awesome that I think Payne is a pretty great guy, and someone that I truly respect.

[Ultra & Proud]

The whole Rongen more involved with the first team to me says that he's getting in there and familiar with the players and day to day operations of the first team in case he is to step in, which now seems likely.

[Oldtimer]

I don't like that. you either give the manager full control of first team, or you turf him. none of this half assed thing

I think it's honesty. He doesn't know PM yet. This is much better than giving him your "full vote of confidence" a week before firing him.


The whole Rongen more involved with the first team to me says that he's getting in there and familiar with the players and day to day operations of the first team in case he is to step in, which now seems likely.

I think that's exactly what it is.

[Beach_Red]

Just because Earl's not GM doesn't mean he is sidelined. Far from it.

He's still the direct line from the FO to Tom. It's a good that Payne has this much FO experience.

[Phil]

Remember when the said Mariner was doing coaching duties, then bam, he was coach. It does make me wonder.

I also like the talked about structure and process suggestions coming out. Instead of all these guys using their connections to get players then try and ram them under and into the cap, there might actually be a talked about and decided upon plan of acusition. That it would be communicated to everyone means we are moving very far forward if all the horror stories of Nesta and Mellburg are to be believed.

[Phil]

I'm happy. think I can retire the ship of fools.

Ya, might be time for me to stop with the Muppet Show stuff too.

[Canary10]

The whole Rongen more involved with the first team to me says that he's getting in there and familiar with the players and day to day operations of the first team in case he is to step in, which now seems likely.

Or that it's going to be a more collaborative process. THere are some good minds at TFC if they get used properly. Mariner is a one man show though, he's not going to like collaborating.

[Joe Kool]

I am pretty happy overall by the initial prospect of this. He values what we had and that the supporters had a big part of league growing so we see eye to eye on that. Obviously we got to give him some time to prove himself but he doesn't have that sleaziness to him that guys like Anselmi and MoJo have pouring from them when they talk. You can almost smell the bullshit with those guys but this guy seems driven and passionate that he can do something. Hopefully there is not going to be any backroom games or politics undermining any positive efforts he comes up with. Good luck Mr Payne and welcome to the T-dot.

[Ultra & Proud]

Or that it's going to be a more collaborative process. THere are some good minds at TFC if they get used properly. Mariner is a one man show though, he's not going to like collaborating.
It's one thing if you are in charge of something and you ask for help or collaboration but it's a whole different kettle of fish when your boss tells you to do it. That type of scenario can't last unless that person is really flexible and ego-free. Mariner is not ego-free.

[Belfast_Boy]

let's wait until we see some actual results... deeds, not words

they did their good deed for the day. I like what is happening. there's also lots of paint and fabric out there. new banners can be made!


Ya, might be time for me to stop with the Muppet Show stuff too.

it's be nice to get back to enjoying football again. protesting cut down on my drinking!

[flamehawk]

Is that interview poster anywhere? I'd love to have a listen.

[Phil]

it's be nice to get back to enjoying football again. protesting cut down on my drinking!

Agreed, its nice to be able to talk about what will be on the pitch instead of what is going on in the office. Transparency & accountability are key though, I look forward to the new direction.

[ag futbol]

I honestly think that this is EXACTLY what we needed - and may spell the end of our troubles. Payne would not have allowed Mo Johnston to run amok with our club for four years, nor would he have allowed novices to manage our team either. I honestly think that the number one problem (which used to be Anselmi) has been fixed with the signing of Payne. I'm extremely encouraged. It's also extra awesome that I think Payne is a pretty great guy, and someone that I truly respect.
That's the impression I got out of this too. For once, we have somebody with more than decade of experience and a track record of success in the position we actually hired them to do.

Sounds like process will be important, which is a welcome change from each manager we have winging it by the seat of their pants. That's the type of thing that will stop you from signing average defenders for 400k, trading the franchise player for a bag of balls, or saying the league office prevented you from making a signing.

[ag futbol]

It's one thing if you are in charge of something and you ask for help or collaboration but it's a whole different kettle of fish when your boss tells you to do it. That type of scenario can't last unless that person is really flexible and ego-free. Mariner is not ego-free.
Neither of them sound very ego-free to be frank. Don't think this relationship will last very long.

That being said, maybe Payne's oversight will be a positive for Mariner and help him avoid some dumb mistakes.

[Canary10]

It's one thing if you are in charge of something and you ask for help or collaboration but it's a whole different kettle of fish when your boss tells you to do it. That type of scenario can't last unless that person is really flexible and ego-free. Mariner is not ego-free.

No I agree, he won't like it. His is old school leadership. Successful organizations in most fields these days are collaborators.

[Ultra & Proud]

Just thinking about Payne's line that the manager should be a teacher. To me that just says Rongen. That's what he is known for and how he's worked in the past. Possibly Rongen as first team manager and De Klerk in charge of academy seeing as their Football philosophy is similar?

[tfcleeds]

I agree to some extent that you can't come in at this point and just turf Mariner. Give Payne time to see things for himself, and Mariner will likely give himself enough rope to hang himself with. In due course, I have no doubts Payne will bring in HIS people.

[Ultra & Proud]

I agree to some extent that you can't come in at this point and just turf Mariner. Give Payne time to see things for himself, and Mariner will likely give himself enough rope to hang himself with. In due course, I have no doubts Payne will bring in HIS people.
I think his guy is already here and just got a sort of promotion.

[tfcleeds]

Who knows, if there is enough butting heads before the new season, Rongen might even find himself in charge on Matchday 1.

[Ultra & Proud]

Just thinking about this Rongen being involved with the first team thing and how it will probably lead to Mariner's ousting and isn't it funny that it's the same thing that happened to Winter when Mariner got involved with the first team. Guess what goes around....

[Detroit_TFC]

Still don't think Rongen wants the head coach job but he'll have a voice, more than now. If PM can't deal with that, Payne will show him the door (not immediately but eventually). But wasn't that the way that Stevie Nicol ran NER with PM as asst? He could keep his job if he adopts that approach.

[ManUtd4ever]

I couldn't watch or listen to the press conference, but I like what I've read in this thread regarding Payne's overall demeanor.

[Oldtimer]

D.C.'s coach Ben Olsen's comments on Payne (audiocast):

http://www.dcunited.com/news/2012/11/capital-soccer-show-episode-51

[Initial B]

I still think next year is a lost cause. I forsee a battle brewing for control of the club between Payne and... others in the organization. That will suck a lot of the energy around next season and result in us being out of the playoffs again. However if Payne wins the battle, then I forsee hope and improvement for the club in 2014 and beyond. If Payne loses, then in my mind TFC will have no hope left and the franchise should be put out of its misery.

[tfcmanu]

All I have to say is....ALLELUJAH!!!!!:drum:

[Belfast_Boy]

I still think next year is a lost cause. I forsee a battle brewing for control of the club between Payne and... others in the organization. That will suck a lot of the energy around next season and result in us being out of the playoffs again. However if Payne wins the battle, then I forsee hope and improvement for the club in 2014 and beyond. If Payne loses, then in my mind TFC will have no hope left and the franchise should be put out of its misery.

I don't think it'll be a total loss. if Mariner hangs himself sooner rather than later we can bring in a real manager. If this happens we won't see playoffs but an improvement.
The rebuild will take two seasons.

[Ultra & Proud]

I still think next year is a lost cause. I forsee a battle brewing for control of the club between Payne and... others in the organization. That will suck a lot of the energy around next season and result in us being out of the playoffs again. However if Payne wins the battle, then I forsee hope and improvement for the club in 2014 and beyond. If Payne loses, then in my mind TFC will have no hope left and the franchise should be put out of its misery.

Payne is in charge. End of.

Any battles will be met with pink slips for those not named Payne. Didn't take much to see that he was in charge. He is part of the MLS Competition Committee. He is part of the founders of MLS. He is one of the most respected execs in MLS. You think he took this job here just to be some flunky and have to deal with whom I assume you mean to be Cochrane & Mariner? They are now nobody and don't kid yourself into getting all dramatic over things by exaggerating their worth. Payne is no different now than Burke & Colangelo while the others have clearly taken a step down the ladder at TFC. In fact I was surprised the other two weren't at the table with Payne and Anselmi. I'm not going to write much into that but I figured they'd want to have the whole braintrust there to make it a show of 'togetherness'. Regardless, everyone is saying the right things for now so it's up to all of them to work together, do their assigned jobs, and work towards being successful.

And as for the playoffs next season, yeah, it's a long shot but it is doable. Other awful teams have turned things around in one season (NYRB 2010). No reason we can't but I don't expect it unless some big things happen and a few things go our way (like being injury free where it matters).

[Ajax TFC]

Another point. I like how Payne fully admitted that he doesn't know much about Canadian soccer. Finally someone who isn't afraid to tell the truth. I'm still slightly afraid that I'm going to wake up (late for class) and this was all a dream, and in fact Cockbrane has been made president :O

[v00d00daddy]

Did Payne make any mention of the style of play he'd like to see this team playing?

Based on the way DC has been built in the recent past, you'd think that they style and type of players Mariner used last year is no longer and option.

If so, why the endorsement for Mariner?

[Greatest Ripoff]

Did Payne make any mention of the style of play he'd like to see this team playing?

Based on the way DC has been built in the recent past, you'd think that they style and type of players Mariner used last year is no longer and option.

If so, why the endorsement for Mariner?


Didn't see this but this is what was reported on the footy blog:

"Payne answered a question about his “team philosophy.” To which he started speaking in fairly specific terms about high pressing and possession-based attacking football."

[West220Side]

With Payne stating that he thinks the team needs a style of play, etc.
Mariner stating only a few weeks ago that the players dictate the style of play. I think Mariner will be gone. Whoever can manage Paynes style of play if he wants to switch back to the 4-3-3 (most likely Rongen) or whatever. But I doubt these two wont but heads.

[Ajax TFC]

Did Payne make any mention of the style of play he'd like to see this team playing?

Based on the way DC has been built in the recent past, you'd think that they style and type of players Mariner used last year is no longer and option.

If so, why the endorsement for Mariner?
He didn't directly say, but he talked a lot about having a guiding philosophy, and mentioned a number of times that at DC their guiding philosophy was playing a high pressure game. He also said that all moves should be made in accordance with that philosophy. He said that it appears to him that in the past TFC has made a lot of moves for the short term, that in the long term made no difference because they didn't know where they were going.

In the scrum that I just watched he said that he feels that DPs should be added on to an already good team to give it an extra boost. He said that since TFC already has DPs under contract, we'll have to build around them. If I had to guess, I would say that if he had a choice he wouldn't have renewed Hassli.

[notthesun]

Did Payne make any mention of the style of play he'd like to see this team playing?

Based on the way DC has been built in the recent past, you'd think that they style and type of players Mariner used last year is no longer and option.

If so, why the endorsement for Mariner?

Check the last part of the press conference (http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/11/28/press-conference-payne-hired-part-10). He says the philosophy at D.C. (and presumably the one he wants to implement at TFC) was "dominant" soccer, with a possession and technical ("kind of Latin") style of play. He covers different systems they played at D.C. as well.

I watched the whole press conference and this part was my favorite of anything he said. He clearly knows what he's talking about. Finally we have someone at the top with knowledge about the game and the authority to fashion a team according to that knowledge.

[ag futbol]

Does anyone actually believe Anselmi that the search for a new president actually started back in June? I very much doubt it.

It just goes back to the way Paul Mariner was introduced at the presser as the new boss. It wasn't clear if he was intern / full time both GM / coach or simply coach or if they were actively looking for someone new.

Basically they wanted a free option so it wouldn't look like they've been changing plans every five minutes. Mariner fell on his face and they needed something new to sell, that something new is Kevin Payne.

[TFC Cityboy]

Ya, might be time for me to stop with the Muppet Show stuff too.

agreed. I was keeping it in the basement to use if necessary in April, but we have what we wanted and now we need to stand behind Kevin as he turns this ship around..
:)

[Alonso]

Does anyone actually believe Anselmi that the search for a new president actually started back in June? I very much doubt it.

It just goes back to the way Paul Mariner was introduced at the presser as the new boss. It wasn't clear if he was intern / full time both GM / coach or simply coach or if they were actively looking for someone new.

Basically they wanted a free option so it wouldn't look like they've been changing plans every five minutes. Mariner fell on his face and they needed something new to sell, that something new is Kevin Payne.


I certainly don't believe it.

I am however very impressed with how Kevin Payne carries himself. He is clearly the classy guy that we need at the top of this organization and that has been so sorely lacking up until now.

I'm going to try and renew one of my seats now. This is a strong step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

[Toronto]

Another point. I like how Payne fully admitted that he doesn't know much about Canadian soccer. Finally someone who isn't afraid to tell the truth. I'm still slightly afraid that I'm going to wake up (late for class) and this was all a dream, and in fact Cockbrane has been made president :O

There hasn't been this much excrement and kool-aid drinking since Aron Winter was announced as head coach and master of complete soccer. Call me when they make the play-offs.

Until then. Nothing has changed. We still suck.

[ag futbol]

^ The one obvious question mark is his knowledge of Canadian soccer.
DeVos was all over that on the TSN podcast yesterday. You could practically picture the smoke coming out of his ears he was getting so angry the person hired didn't have direct knowledge of Canadian soccer.

I can see his point to a degree. The academy has huge potential and it could be a real gold mine for TFC but to get the most out of it someone has to be here who understands Canadian Soccer. But at the same time, this guy wants to back someone like Earl Cochrane - who is a complete pleb - over a qualified candidate like Payne? absolute madness. I think any smart GM will see the value in the academy and be able to get the most out of it. They don't have to be Canadian or have knowledge of our system, those things can be learned or acquired through work by subordinates.

The majority of this job is still about operating a MLS club, and because the CSA is so light on the domestic content requirements (their own fault) it's roughly the same gig regardless of whether it's a Canadian or American club.

[Richard]

There hasn't been this much excrement and kool-aid drinking since Aron Winter was announced as head coach and master of complete soccer. Call me when they make the play-offs.

Until then. Nothing has changed. We still suck.

Yes we do still suck with the players we have now. What is positive is the we have someone now who is not going to take bullshit from the guys below him, he knows soccer and understands when he is being fed bullshit so expect to see changes soon.

[Richard]

DeVos was all over that on the TSN podcast yesterday. You could practically picture the smoke coming out of his ears he was getting so angry the person hired didn't have direct knowledge of Canadian soccer.

I can see his point to a degree. The academy has huge potential and it could be a real gold mine for TFC but to get the most out of it someone has to be here who understands Canadian Soccer. But at the same time, this guy wants to back someone like Earl Cochrane - who is a complete pleb - over a qualified candidate like Payne? absolute madness. I think any smart GM will see the value in the academy and be able to get the most out of it. They don't have to be Canadian or have knowledge of our system, those things can be learned or acquired through work by subordinates.

The majority of this job is still about operating a MLS club, and because the CSA is so light on the domestic content requirements (their own fault) it's roughly the same gig regardless of whether it's a Canadian or American club.

I faceplam every time i hear this, the person has to know soccer period. This notion the guy has to undsertand the Canadian system is bullshit, why the fuck would he care about our shit developmental program, he brings more knowledge than anyone on the CSA combinded.

[ag futbol]

I faceplam every time i hear this, the person has to know soccer period. This notion the guy has to undsertand the Canadian system is bullshit, why the fuck would he care about our shit developmental program, he brings more knowledge than anyone on the CSA combinded.
I hear you on that one, and I was doing the exact same thing.

It's pretty much the same situation we heard when the CSA appointed an insider for TD, someone who "knows the system". It's a bunch of bullshit. We've been hiring these internal candidates for decades and they haven't accomplished shit, yet we're so insular and scared to turn to an outsider.

[Shakes McQueen]

There hasn't been this much excrement and kool-aid drinking since Aron Winter was announced as head coach and master of complete soccer. Call me when they make the play-offs.

Until then. Nothing has changed. We still suck.

Can't imagine what made you think this was an appropriate response to someone, considering it's hardly your first rodeo.

- Scott

[dupont]

I can't help it. I'm damn excited. I dont know if this will work out or not but TFC definitely made the choice that most people would say is the best possible try.

[Ultra & Proud]

With Payne stating that he thinks the team needs a style of play, etc.
Mariner stating only a few weeks ago that the players dictate the style of play. I think Mariner will be gone. Whoever can manage Paynes style of play if he wants to switch back to the 4-3-3 (most likely Rongen) or whatever. But I doubt these two wont but heads.
Well he said in his post presser comments that he doesn't interfere with the managers decisions but if DC was anything to go by and he does enforce a formation to go with the style of play he mentioned then expect a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-1-2.

If we score a good AM and Hassli and Koevermans play together up top then that 4-3-1-2 might look nice.

[tfcleeds]

Just finished watching the introductory press conference. Also very refreshing to see Payne say that 2013 will be spent undoing the mess that we're currently in, and he's not making any promises for next season, saying he's aiming for competitiveness in 2014. Unlike certain individuals who've been at the helm during a six game losing streak, and saying "we're still making the playoffs".

[Gazza_55]

Just to further your theory, if the league was involved in facilitating the move from DC to Toronto and is genuine in its interest in seeing the team succeed, I'd wager they haven't forgotten the DeRo situation (amongst others) which, IMO, effectively embarrassed them. If Payne is on the fence, the league most likely isn't. In the world of disclosure, any concerns regarding how TFC is run would have been made crystal clear as Payne will have expectations to fix them.

Payne had to ask some difficult questions in the interview process, including the flexibility he would enjoy. From the Academy to Supporters to Scouting, his influence over DC United is huge. I can't see the league wanting anything but autonomy for Payne and I can't see Payne accepting any less.

On a different note, if the league is involved, I wonder how they would look at a Mellberg situation this time around if Payne lobbied hard for a defender like him?

Why would it make a difference?

We didn't have the cap space or the DP slot to sign Mellberg last year. If we get rid of a DP and create the space we can sign him - if we don't, we can't.

[Pookie]

Why would it make a difference?

We didn't have the cap space or the DP slot to sign Mellberg last year. If we get rid of a DP and create the space we can sign him - if we don't, we can't.

They had both. League said no. TFC went with plan B which was Hassli.

[Fort York Redcoat]

There hasn't been this much excrement and kool-aid drinking since Aron Winter was announced as head coach and master of complete soccer. Call me when they make the play-offs.

Until then. Nothing has changed. We still suck.

You don't have to come here for that. Any bandwagoner or random person will know when we are in the playoffs. If that's all you need to know you don't need any more info., debate or discussion from anyone here.

[mastermixer]

Sorry if it's been discussed, but does anybody else find it odd that they renewed a DP's (Hassli) contract exactly one day before a new president is introduced? Who approved that knowing a new pres is coming in unless it was discussed with him beforehand?? Just smells kinda fishy to me.

[Oldtimer]

Sorry if it's been discussed, but does anybody else find it odd that they renewed a DP's (Hassli) contract exactly one day before a new president is introduced? Who approved that knowing a new pres is coming in unless it was discussed with him beforehand?? Just smells kinda fishy to me.

Good for pointing that out. Earl Cochrane is the obvious culprit.

[mastermixer]

And we are not talking about a blue collar Sturgis player here, it was a DP slot. This is a potentially valuable piece that he could have used to put his stamp on the team. If I was Payne I would feel a little irked about this.

[Auzzy]

^ Well of course it's possible that it was so close to the announcement of Payne that they were able to run the Hassli deal by him before signing. DC United had already announced his departure the day before, so (legally) they could start to consult him at that point. Just a suggestion, and though I always expect the worst at TFC, that doesn't mean it's always the case.

[Ultra & Proud]

^ Well of course it's possible that it was so close to the announcement of Payne that they were able to run the Hassli deal by him before signing. DC United had already announced his departure the day before, so (legally) they could start to consult him at that point. Just a suggestion, and though I always expect the worst at TFC, that doesn't mean it's always the case.
Yeah I find it hard to believe that they go out an hire a guy like Payne, who was probably endorsed by Cochrane by the way, who is so well respected and then try to sneak something under his nose the day before he is announced. Also, he would have most likely signed his own contract here on the same day as Hassli. It's not like he showed up on the morning of the presser, negotiated terms, and signed it.

[PopePouri]

I doubt they were undermine KP when he now has all the power and jobs are up in the air. I think this was more Anselmi's fault for not informing others or the process to hire KP happened really quickly while talks were ongoing on renewing Hassli's option.

[Initial B]

Good for pointing that out. Earl Cochrane is the obvious culprit.
And that sounds warning bells for me. Taking Hassili now handcuffs the incoming president and gives him less room to maneuver to find good players to fit under the cap. It's just the type of subtle sabatoge that both Mariner and Cochrane are likely to use from here on in since they don't have the power to battle Payne directly. I wonder if they'll engage in talking to Anselmi (but more likely certain members of the press [EC is a PR wiz after all]) behind Payne's back pointing out every little mistake he's going to make, trying to build a case to get him ousted.

I can see their strategy now: "The reason we're on a 5-game losing streak is that the new President/GM couldn't get us the players we need. He is a dinosaur from MLS 1.0 that doesn't understand how the league works now or the Canadian game. We need a president that understands both. Earl Cochrane should be that person."

[Wull]

Payne was NOT consulted on the Hassli signing. I think it was Sharman who asked and he was told by Payne that it wasn't run by him. The shitshow hasn't quite folded its tent yet

[Canary10]

Yeah I find it hard to believe that they go out an hire a guy like Payne, who was probably endorsed by Cochrane by the way, who is so well respected and then try to sneak something under his nose the day before he is announced. Also, he would have most likely signed his own contract here on the same day as Hassli. It's not like he showed up on the morning of the presser, negotiated terms, and signed it.

My gut tells me Cochrane didn't have much or anything to do with Payne's hiring - not so sure he endorses it. Anslemi said several times he knows Payne personally. I think he saw an opportunity and jumped at.

[Oldtimer]

Payne was NOT consulted on the Hassli signing. I think it was Sharman who asked and he was told by Payne that it wasn't run by him. The shitshow hasn't quite folded its tent yet

Ben Knight confirms this:


Interestingly, both Payne and Cochrane told reporters afterwards – in separate scrums – that Payne was in no way even consulted on the recent decision to bring oft-injured striker and designated player Eric Hassli back for 2013.

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3978-Help-from-above

So.... if Cochrane quickly did the deal before Payne arrived... the question is why?

[Canary10]

A leader I very much respect once told me it takes 6 years to change the culture of an organization. Let's remember that as Payne does his work.

[Super]

A leader I very much respect once told me it takes 6 years to change the culture of an organization. Let's remember that as Payne does his work.

Not always true, though. We see organizations turn around on their head in this league every single year. But at MLSE, sure, it might take 6 years+.

[Phil]

A leader I very much respect once told me it takes 6 years to change the culture of an organization. Let's remember that as Payne does his work.

Payne was saying in the interviews yesterday that 2014 was the first year they would be targeting a playoff contending team, and 2015 before the team even looks consistantly competitive.

After evaluation and house cleaning that may need to be revised. Its a long haul project and we all knew it would not be instant. I want to see an end to the high turnover of players and staff. Get the right people in there and use the resources this club has for facility and support. I hope he is able to do that, from the sounds of things he will.

Our job in the stands is going to be to all work together and bring the atmosphere back. Of course that will take time, but its time everyone hits that reset button and focus on the bigger picture now that we know there is a least consideration for the football on the field.

[Canary10]

Not always true, though. We see organizations turn around on their head in this league every single year. But at MLSE, sure, it might take 6 years+.

I'm not talking about making the playoffs. I'm talking about changing a front office culture of disrespect to supporters, belief they are entitled to their jobs without having to produce, often treating players like crap, the constant media leaks, the lack of pulling together as a team, etc. And the stuff of a wannabe general manager and coach deciding to re-sign a DP without running it by the new president. We may make the playoffs before then, but changing the stuff that would make TFC an organization that is viewed as having integrity will take longer.

[Ultra & Proud]

Our job in the stands is going to be to all work together and bring the atmosphere back. Of course that will take time, but its time everyone hits that reset button and focus on the bigger picture now that we know there is a least consideration for the football on the field.

This right here.

I believe in Payne and I think he is the right guy to turn things around on the pitch and upstairs. Our job is to turn it around in the stands.

[Ultra & Proud]

And for me I really don't care who re-signed Hassli as I would have done the same thing. Not too old, good player, decent strike rate and in a 'truly final' contract year. Injuries aside, I expect him to be motivated to earn another, maybe final, good contract. Plus we have to have someone at striker to start the year. No guarantees on Koevermans returning at any set date and no assurances we could get better in the pre-season window, summer window yes, but the winter one is tough.

[London]

Hassli being signed makes me think that Koevs will not be returning or is far away from returning

[Canary10]

I'm not negative on the Hassli signing, I personally really like him actually. Only that Cochrane seems to have a pattern of rushing out to make moves just in advance of big personnel changes and not keeping those people in the loop.

[maninb]

I don't mind having Hassli....I just want PM & EC gone ASAP....our 0-9-1 start to the 2013 season should do it....

[Wull]

Hassli being here isn't the issue. It's the fact that it was pushed through without consulting the new president that has my ears perked again

[brad]

DeVos was all over that on the TSN podcast yesterday. You could practically picture the smoke coming out of his ears he was getting so angry the person hired didn't have direct knowledge of Canadian soccer.

I didn't here it, but I wonder if it's sour grapes? DeVos has been angling for the president job or himself (my opinion based hearing him talk about it over the years).

Payne not having knowledge of Canadian soccer does not concern me, so long as he has people on the team that do. Whether that is someone in the existing organization like Jason Bent, or he brings someone in.

[Phil]

Hassli being signed makes me think that Koevs will not be returning or is far away from returning

Danny is in pretty good shape and walking around fine, the swelling from the surgery has pretty much gone too. He is ramping up his fitness now under careful supervision from the staff. Long way to go to game shape though.

I think that all 3 DP's will be playing together at somepoint this year. Not sure how the year will unfold though.

[brad]

Yes we do still suck with the players we have now. What is positive is the we have someone now who is not going to take bullshit from the guys below him, he knows soccer and understands when he is being fed bullshit so expect to see changes soon.

I think Payne has the ability to make a difference like no one has before. The million dollar questions for me though, will he be given the opportunity to, or will there be a snake in the wings waiting to stab him in the back (with the ability to do so), and/or will Anselmi get jumpy and fire him if the results aren't immediate or ticket sales suffer.

[Phil]

This right here.

I believe in Payne and I think he is the right guy to turn things around on the pitch and upstairs. Our job is to turn it around in the stands.

The only hesitation I have is putting too much into the guy himself. We did that with Winter and it really came crashing back down on us. They went out and created the role and filled it with their guy. I hope he sticks around and is very sucessfull.

Either way I think our job is the same and that is to bring it in the stands.

[ensco]

My gut tells me Cochrane didn't have much or anything to do with Payne's hiring - not so sure he endorses it. Anslemi said several times he knows Payne personally. I think he saw an opportunity and jumped at.

My gut tells me this only happened because Payne was in play and MLS did this via Bell/Rogers/Tanenbaum.

This was a terrible thing for Anselmi. It was forced on him.

TFC is part of why (maybe the reason why) he is not CEO.

[brad]

Ben Knight confirms this:



http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3978-Help-from-above

So.... if Cochrane quickly did the deal before Payne arrived... the question is why?

I posted this in the news thread, but I think Mariner and/or Cochrane are setting up their safety net for next year. If the DP's are fit and perform like DP's, it should lift us enough that they can claim forward progress. If they are injured a lot or are off form/actually past it, then their excuse is "we where handcuffed by injuries/underperforming DP's. They are off the books in 2014 and with that salary freed up we can really build the team we need"

[Ultra & Proud]

The only hesitation I have is putting too much into the guy himself. We did that with Winter and it really came crashing back down on us.

The only differences are the things that all the long term Winter detractors mentioned when we hired him; no MLS experience, no professional track record, and an experimental system being forced in a capped league. With Payne he has proven experience, a good track record, and an idea of what will work and what won't in MLS. For those reasons I have more faith now than I ever had in our upper management.

[brad]

My gut tells me this only happened because Payne was in play and MLS did this via Bell/Rogers/Tanenbaum.

This was a terrible thing for Anselmi. It was forced on him.

TFC is part of why (maybe the reason why) he is not CEO.

I was wondering about the MLS/the Don making this happen as well.

It's no secret that our FO and the league have not been seeing eye to eye (to put it nicely). Getting Payne in and in full control give the league someone they know and like running the show. Makes a lot of sense, and is not a bad thing for us.

[Initial B]

The only hesitation I have is putting too much into the guy himself. We did that with Winter and it really came crashing back down on us. They went out and created the role and filled it with their guy. I hope he sticks around and is very sucessfull.
No, MLSE didn't fill it with their guy, MLS filled it with their guy. I think the league got involved with this one seeing how quickly it seems to have come together. Anselmi said that they'd been looking for a replacement since June, but later in that same presser, he said once Payne's name entered the mix, the "short list became short very quickly". If that's the case, then Payne's name came up very late in the process and was probably pushed into it by MLS due to the inaction of the TFC FO in finding a president. That's why I feel safe in putting a lot on him because he has the backing of MLS, who really wants to see the market succeed and probably wants to make up for the Mo recomendation.

[Canary10]

My gut tells me this only happened because Payne was in play and MLS did this via Bell/Rogers/Tanenbaum.

This was a terrible thing for Anselmi. It was forced on him.

TFC is part of why (maybe the reason why) he is not CEO.

Yeah that's probably closer to the truth. Although there was also a general media consensus that this was necessary - I think that pushed him as well. At any rate, don't think Earl had much to do with it, whatever his past connection was to Payne. And sometimes past connections don't work in your favour...

[Canary10]

The only differences are the things that all the long term Winter detractors mentioned when we hired him; no MLS experience, no professional track record, and an experimental system being forced in a capped league. With Payne he has proven experience, a good track record, and an idea of what will work and what won't in MLS. For those reasons I have more faith now than I ever had in our upper management.

Payne is one of the few guys MLSE can't just go out and fire on a whim or sudden change of "direction." That's huge I think.

[ManUtd4ever]

I think Payne has the ability to make a difference like no one has before. The million dollar questions for me though, will he be given the opportunity to, or will there be a snake in the wings waiting to stab him in the back (with the ability to do so), and/or will Anselmi get jumpy and fire him if the results aren't immediate or ticket sales suffer.

I honestly think that the hiring of Payne signifies a new direction for the club. Anselmi stated that Payne will have total autonomy, and therefore, any of his subordinates within the organization that don't follow the blueprint that he implements will simply be discarded at some point, and that includes Paul Mariner and Earl Cochrane.

As for an antcipated timeline to produce tangible results on the pitch, given the fact that the organization has basically hit the reset button, I assume that Payne will be given at least 2-3 years by Anselmi and Co. to implement his vision.

[brad]

No, MLSE didn't fill it with their guy, MLS filled it with their guy. I think the league got involved with this one seeing how quickly it seems to have come together. Anselmi said that they'd been looking for a replacement since June, but later in that same presser, he said once Payne's name entered the mix, the "short list became short very quickly". If that's the case, then Payne's name came up very late in the process and was probably pushed into it by MLS due to the inaction of the TFC FO in finding a president. That's why I feel safe in putting a lot on him because he has the backing of MLS, who really wants to see the market succeed and probably wants to make up for the Mo recomendation.

I got the impression in the presser that Anselmi was fumbling with the answer about the search, which sort of implies to me that the way he described it is not how it happened.

[Canary10]

No, MLSE didn't fill it with their guy, MLS filled it with their guy. I think the league got involved with this one seeing how quickly it seems to have come together. Anselmi said that they'd been looking for a replacement since June, but later in that same presser, he said once Payne's name entered the mix, the "short list became short very quickly". If that's the case, then Payne's name came up very late in the process and was probably pushed into it by MLS due to the inaction of the TFC FO in finding a president. That's why I feel safe in putting a lot on him because he has the backing of MLS, who really wants to see the market succeed and probably wants to make up for the Mo recomendation.

There was absolutely no talk of TFC hiring a president until the town halls. In fact, there was the rumour toward the end of the season that Cochrane had been announced at an MLSE meeting as the top guy, whatever the position title was. They weren't looking for 6 months, that's for sure. This was only on the radar in the past few weeks. Bet season ticket renewals had something to do with it as well. They realized they needed someone fans could actually rally around, because Earl and PM were not those people.

[London]

Danny is in pretty good shape and walking around fine, the swelling from the surgery has pretty much gone too. He is ramping up his fitness now under careful supervision from the staff. Long way to go to game shape though.

I think that all 3 DP's will be playing together at somepoint this year. Not sure how the year will unfold though.


I did not know that danny was running already,that is good to hear, I am sure we all hope for him to return to form. The guy just scores goals

[jabbronies]

Hassli being signed makes me think that Koevs will not be returning or is far away from returning

Everything I've heard is that Koevs is ahead of schedule.

Having both Hassli and Koevs at hand should (on paper) guarantee at least 1 healthy DP striker in the lineup. I think we'll see both of them pair up about 60% of the games this year with the other 40% of games having 1 of them injured/suspended. Not great I know, but it is what we have.

[brad]

I honestly think that the hiring of Payne signifies a new direction for the club. Anselmi stated that Payne will have total autonomy, and therefore, any of his subordinates within the organization that don't follow the blueprint that he implements will simply be discarded at some point, and that includes Paul Mariner and Earl Cochrane.

I suspect, and hope you are correct. But coorporate politics is a nasty game, and if Payne isn't skilled in it, he may get screwed.


As for an antcipated timeline to produce tangible results on the pitch, given the fact that the organization has basically hit the reset button, I assume that Payne will be given at least 2-3 years by Anselmi and Co. to implement his vision.

Like the Aron Winter total reset:)

I hope he is given time, but I give MLSE no benefit of the doubt anymore. 6 years of lies and they have lost that benefit for me. They have a track record of rash decisions. I'm not convinced they won't pull the eject button early, particularly if results are bumpy and ticket sales drop.

I hope I am wrong, but, fool me once, shane on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I'm not sure what fool me a dozen times equates to though.:)

[jabbronies]

No, MLSE didn't fill it with their guy, MLS filled it with their guy. I think the league got involved with this one seeing how quickly it seems to have come together. Anselmi said that they'd been looking for a replacement since June, but later in that same presser, he said once Payne's name entered the mix, the "short list became short very quickly". If that's the case, then Payne's name came up very late in the process and was probably pushed into it by MLS due to the inaction of the TFC FO in finding a president. That's why I feel safe in putting a lot on him because he has the backing of MLS, who really wants to see the market succeed and probably wants to make up for the Mo recomendation.

MoJo had MLS backing as well.
MLS also thought TFC was on track with Winter.


If there is one thing that should be taken away from this and put to rest any doubts to the contrary is that MLSE doesn't know how to find the right soccer people. Period.

[Ultra & Proud]

Payne's whole connection to MLS HQ was a major positive in my eyes but if this truly was 'suggested' by MLS because they want our market to thrive again then I am even more pleased with it. Hopefully, and in no way do I suggest that is has ever happened :skep: , but it'd be nice to get some of these 'underpaid' players and magical allocation amounts that LA & NY seem to get. Of course I am implying nothing at all.

[Initial B]

Although our prayers seem to be answered, I don't think we are out of the woods yet. I suggest everyone go to the video in this article:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/11/28/mls_kevin_payne_toronto_fc_tom_anselmi/

Now pause the video report at the 27 second mark. Look carefully at Mariner and Cochrane's expressions and body language. Do those look like people happy to have a new boss? They look as if they were caught by surprise and can't even put on a smiley face for the press since they're still in shock at how fast everything happened. They may have been overruled by the league on filling the position, but there is no way they are going to submit quietly.

Look at Anselmi at the 30-33 second mark: His tight smile gives way to a bit of a stunned expression. I don't think this was how he planned to have the situation turn out either. I also note that the two of them don't look exactly comfortable standing next to each other.

The battle's not over yet.

I believe the job of the supporter groups this year and next is going to be having KP's back and, dare I say, protect him from the inevitable subtle jabs and character assassinations that are going to be carried out in the new season.

[Phil]

I did not know that danny was running already,that is good to hear, I am sure we all hope for him to return to form. The guy just scores goals

Dont know if he is cleared for running, but the knee was looking less like a cabbage patch kid in November.

He is hesitant on commiting to his schedule of fitness as to avoid expectation, but things are looking pretty good.

[Ultra & Proud]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/11/28/mls_kevin_payne_toronto_fc_tom_anselmi/

Now pause the video report at the 27 second mark. Look carefully at Mariner and Cochrane's expressions and body language.
You know I watched what I thought was the whole presser yesterday, albeit from work, and I never saw Mariner or Cochrane. What the hell was I watching? I saw a pic of Cochrane with his arm around Payne from the post presser deal but nothing during it. Guess I was in space yesterday.

But really, no one is happy when you get a new boss and your job is in jeopardy, which when getting a new boss no matter what is said, is always a possibility. Add to this that both Mariner and Cochrane were overlooked for this role and seem to have taken demotions as well. That wouldn't sit well with anyone. I wouldn't get all backroom political backstabby and be reading stuff into the situation when it's really just day one with a ton of change and there is nothing to substantiate any negative actions.

[Canary10]

Although our prayers seem to be answered, I don't think we are out of the woods yet. I suggest everyone go to the video in this article:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/11/28/mls_kevin_payne_toronto_fc_tom_anselmi/

Now pause the video report at the 27 second mark. Look carefully at Mariner and Cochrane's expressions and body language. Do those look like people happy to have a new boss? They look as if they were caught by surprise and can't even put on a smiley face for the press since they're still in shock at how fast everything happened. They may have been overruled by the league on filling the position, but there is no way they are going to submit quietly.

Look at Anselmi at the 30-33 second mark: His tight smile gives way to a bit of a stunned expression. I don't think this was how he planned to have the situation turn out either. I also note that the two of them don't look exactly comfortable standing next to each other.

The battle's not over yet.

I believe the job of the supporter groups this year and next is going to be having KP's back and, dare I say, protect him from the inevitable subtle jabs and character assassinations that are going to be carried out in the new season.

This is why I say it takes six years to change a culture. This stuff takes time to sort out. Hopefully the on-pitch stuff will happen a bit faster.

[TFC Cityboy]

this is a very different appointment of Aron Winter/BDK and the clown in the shorts.

Payne is coming in with complete autonomy for both the playing and business side of the club. I would therefore assume that Paul Beirne would report in to him instead of Tommy Boy from now on.
He is a true club President and the senior management strata that this club has lacked between the coaching staff and MLSE that we have been lacking since day 1.

He struck me as being an intelligent football man who will be firm but fair and will not put up with the BS factory that we have been. He will evaluate what we have over the next few weeks, but, given his connections, you can be sure that if he feels he can improve the club infrastucture by bringing in his guys (be that commercial, marketing, coaching or whatever), then he will do so.

Equate this to schooldays. We have had a supply teacher in charge of a rowdy classroom for 6 periods. Stinkbombs have been exploded, there's been a foodfight, one kid has had his glasses smashed. Suddenly down the hall you see the new hard-ass Principal striding purposefully towards the classroom. This is how I look at this development and let's hope the 2 chief protagonists of the classroom shitshow get their asses caned.

[Yohan]

this is a very different appointment of Aron Winter/BDK and the clown in the shorts.

Payne is coming in with complete autonomy for both the playing and business side of the club. I would therefore assume that Paul Beirne would report in to him instead of Tommy Boy from now on.
This is what Anselmi said. Everybody on TFC reports to KP, KP reports to MLSE 'mothership'

[Phil]

You know I watched what I thought was the whole presser yesterday, albeit from work, and I never saw Mariner or Cochrane. What the hell was I watching? I saw a pic of Cochrane with his arm around Payne from the post presser deal but nothing during it. Guess I was in space yesterday.

But really, no one is happy when you get a new boss and your job is in jeopardy, which when getting a new boss no matter what is said, is always a possibility. Add to this that both Mariner and Cochrane were overlooked for this role and seem to have taken demotions as well. That wouldn't sit well with anyone. I wouldn't get all backroom political backstabby and be reading stuff into the situation when it's really just day one with a ton of change and there is nothing to substantiate any negative actions.

I don't think of it as a demotion as much as a new rung on the ladder has been installed abouve you.

Sounds like the first order of business is to make a roadmap, then identify roles and job descriptions. Its going to be like the movie Office Space :D

[London]

^^^^ i can see mariners face now

http://www.mindpollution.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/milton-office-space.jpg

[Yohan]

Two more articles

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/11/29/smorgasborg-payne-hiring-will-change-face-toronto-fc

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/11/28/commentary-payne-mls-institution-and-dc-grateful



“I think the D.C. United front office went out of its way to recognize and work with its supporters clubs and set the tone for successful interaction with its fans,” said Screaming Eagles founder Matt Mathai in an interview with MLSsoccer.com last year. “For example, we requested, and received, the right to control ticket sales for our members. D.C. United was the first to agree to something like this.
“They basically agreed to hand over tickets to prime midfield sections [at a discount] to us. This was borderline revolutionary, they took a risk that we'd be able to generate visual interest and committed ticket sales right at midfield.”

[Wull]

I believe the job of the supporter groups this year and next is going to be having KP's back and, dare I say, protect him from the inevitable subtle jabs and character assassinations that are going to be carried out in the new season.

Despite what some in the media have said and continue to say, I thought we did a good job of keeping the pressure off of Winter while he was trying to build towards his vision. Of course these same guys were calling for Mariner while we did this so the fact that we went for their pick has them painting us as impatient attack dogs.

The first sign of any undercutting and I will be back with the mariner/cochrane/Brennan out calls although I firmly believe KP will put a stop to it before it even gets to that stage. He wasn't brought in as a package like Winter so I believe full control is his and we won't see that type of sabotage this time.

[Super]

I gotta say, I'm pretty pleased with Anselmi right now. Lowering the cost of season tickets first, and now bringing in Payne as president of TFC - that's pretty major.

[Oldtimer]

My gut tells me this only happened because Payne was in play and MLS did this via Bell/Rogers/Tanenbaum.

This was a terrible thing for Anselmi. It was forced on him.

TFC is part of why (maybe the reason why) he is not CEO.

You've usually had a good sense of how ML$E operates, and I think you are right. Bell and Rogers took a look at the operation (once they had full control and got around to it) and didn't like what they saw (declining revenues and attendance, no one manning the ship) and when Garber called they talked. The new board are no dummies, they are very smart people, and they know that a rudderless franchise is a franchise in decline.

There is no way Earl/Mariner wanted this to happen, and I don't know if Anselmi was really in on it. Earl was all set to become the GM himself. Someone changed the plan.




Look at Anselmi at the 30-33 second mark: His tight smile gives way to a bit of a stunned expression. I don't think this was how he planned to have the situation turn out either. I also note that the two of them don't look exactly comfortable standing next to each other.

The battle's not over yet.

I believe the job of the supporter groups this year and next is going to be having KP's back and, dare I say, protect him from the inevitable subtle jabs and character assassinations that are going to be carried out in the new season.

I'm not too worried, I doubt that ML$E will dare do anything to him. He didn't leave DC to be let go from TFC, and the league has his back. However, it's true that we should his support his efforts over any short-term bumps in the road.

[ag futbol]

pffft ... I wouldn't worry about Payne getting back stabbed, at least not for the foreseeable future.

Mariner is toast, it's just a matter of time. Cochrane - if he's smart - will hitch his horse to the new pony in order to survive, otherwise he's going down with the ship as well.

I think we may have over estimated the degree to which the TFC 'problem' was ignored at the board level.

[Ultra & Proud]

I gotta say, I'm pretty pleased with Anselmi right now. Lowering the cost of season tickets first, and now bringing in Payne as president of TFC - that's pretty major.

He has done a good job. Got 2 items on most supporters TFC 2013 wish lists completed. All I need now is for us to get some solid MLSers to fill out the squad and I think we're good to go for 2013.

[AdamAM]

Anyone else notice Payne struggle to find anything positive to say about Mariner? That shows just what kind of reputation this guy's got In MLS

[ManUtd4ever]

I gotta say, I'm pretty pleased with Anselmi right now. Lowering the cost of season tickets first, and now bringing in Payne as president of TFC - that's pretty major.

Both issues should have been addressed sooner, but agreed, credit where credit is due.

[ensco]

pffft ... I wouldn't worry about Payne getting back stabbed, at least not for the foreseeable future.

Mariner is toast, it's just a matter of time. Cochrane - if he's smart - will hitch his horse to the new pony in order to survive, otherwise he's going down with the ship as well.

I think we may have over estimated the degree to which the TFC 'problem' was ignored at the board level.

This was a tremendous negative signal re the board's view of Anselmi. Anselmi was committed to the Mariner plan, he gave him a long term contract. Within months, that plan got smoked by every constituency - the market, the supporters and now, it seems, MLS and the board. I thought it was interesting when Anselmi became a director on that outside board a month ago, now I think it's even more interesting.
http://www.norontresources.com/?pressreleases&pressreleasesMain=1

As somebody who ripped the Anselmi regime a lot, I want to say that I put most of the blame for all this on Teachers, not Anselmi - Anselmi just did the best he could, thought he was giving the masters what he wanted. He is probably a talented guy with talents in other areas, and should never have been in this position to begin with.

btw Payne - if he's smart - won't be interested in Cochrane hitching his horse to Payne's pony.

[jloome]

I'm just stupid happy over this. I want all this shit to be over and for the club to build a new roster.

Mariner is British; seems a big demotion for him. He saw himself as a Fergie-type manager who was in control of both the signings and the tactical approach, and now he's really just a glorified field coach, with Rongen looking over his shoulder.

[Oldtimer]

This was a tremendous negative signal re the board's view of Anselmi. Anselmi was committed to the Mariner plan, he gave him a long term contract. Within months, that plan got smoked by every constituency - the market, the supporters and now, it seems, MLS and the board. I thought it was interesting when Anselmi became a director on that outside board a month ago, now I think it's even more interesting.
http://www.norontresources.com/?pressreleases&pressreleasesMain=1

As somebody who ripped the Anselmi regime a lot, I want to say that I put most of the blame for all this on Teachers, not Anselmi - Anselmi just did the best he could, thought he was giving the masters what he wanted. He is probably a talented guy with talents in other areas, and should never have been in this position to begin with.

btw Payne - if he's smart - won't be interested in Cochrane hitching his horse to Payne's pony.

The end-game goes even further. Anselmi in turn will have a CEO with power to hire and fire placed over him. If he can't deliver the goods, we'll see him leave to "pursue other interests."

Agreed about Cochrane. Payne should be careful of him.

[Phil]

This is all becoming a little too much Game of Thrones for me.

Its all interesting but heavily speculative. There is a big job in front of KP and I really hope he does well, creates his roadmap and sorts out where everyone should be focusing their energy.

In the meantime, our job is made very clear now - bring it in the stands.

[jloome]

btw Payne - if he's smart - won't be interested in Cochrane hitching his horse to Payne's pony.

Keep your enemies even closer.
Actually, if you're smart, you gas them at the first opportunity.

[ag futbol]

btw Payne - if he's smart - won't be interested in Cochrane hitching his horse to Payne's pony.
Sometimes you have to trap the rats in the corner before you hit them over the head with a hammer.

My question is: how did we go from Adrian Heath being brought in as an assistant and PM saying "he doesn't want to coach forever" to this? Something happened half way down the road which dramatically changed the course.

Anselmi's quote this has been in the works since June is completely hallow. Something caused a major re-think, maybe the board wasn't happy with renewals, MLS wasn't happy with TFC... but the 'ship of fools' all look shell shocked at that press conference, including Anselmi.

[spark]

I'm just stupid happy over this. I want all this shit to be over and for the club to build a new roster.

Ha QFT - save for a couple players, we're so rag-tag right now with (IMO) no vision of the players fitting into a greater whole, just plugging holes and addressing immediate needs. So desperately want any kind of long term plan/vision with this club.

[Oldtimer]

Remember that the old board was a pension fund only interested in the bottom line.

TFC's new board are media owners, who have given the teams a new mandate to win.

Winning makes for full stands, more content dates, and better TV, and the ML$E deal was all about media.
Financial analysts can have the wool pulled over their eyes as long as the numbers are good. The new board knows better.
Of course, the numbers can't be that good, either.

[Ajax TFC]

This is all becoming a little too much Game of Thrones for me.
Personally I may have spent more time watching GOT this year (or at least was more entertained by it) than TFC. So perhaps this is their new marketing strategy g:D

TBH though, I worry about how Payne will handle being in a position where he's all alone (in power, but alone). He talked a lot about the importance of having everyone on the same page acting for the good of the team. That will be hard to do from the beginning when two of his major officers (Mariner and Cochrane) resent him and have completely different visions than him. He'd be better off surrounding himself with good people (and who are good human beings) who he can trust and will do what's best for the club. Cochrane and Mariner definitely do not have what's best for the club at heart. I know that he has the power to fire them and hire good people, but what worries me is that he has no advisers who he can discuss things with. Going off the personal opinion of one person is never a good thing, no matter how good their intentions are. He needs people who he can bounce ideas off of, and who can provide him with ideas (without being super offended if he doesn't go with them a la Mariner and his "scouting" reports). Currently it's just him and Rongen on the same page. Maybe de Klerk if he's given a role by Payne.

[ensco]

I'm just stupid happy over this. I want all this shit to be over and for the club to build a new roster.



For me to be stupid happy, I'd need to see some people leave, and maybe for us to go back into the expansion draft.

But I get what you are saying!

[ensco]

Of course, the numbers can't be that good, either.

This is what happened, imho. We all saw the stands last year. We all know that renewals took a big further hit even with the price drop. TFC revenues have to be down more than 50% in two years (probably more). With the third highest payroll in the league. There's no jawboning around that.

[JayMolly]

Anyone else notice Payne struggle to find anything positive to say about Mariner? That shows just what kind of reputation this guy's got In MLS
I believe Mariner will be on a short leash. Payne will be a real PAIN for Paul if the season doesn't start well!

[Oldtimer]

I worry about how Payne will handle being in a position where he's all alone (in power, but alone).

I don't worry about Payne. Remember, he built a franchise from scratch and has contacts throughout the league. If he needs advice, he can bring in the people to get it. Besides, his man Rongen is already there. If it has been up to me, Rongen would be head coach, the guy in Bermuda shorts would have been axed with Winter, and we would be feeling much more positive about 2013.

[BBBulldog]

I don't worry about Payne. Remember, he built a franchise from scratch and has contacts throughout the league. If he needs advice, he can bring in the people to get it. Besides, his man Rongen is already there. If it has been up to me, Rongen would be head coach, the guy in Bermuda shorts would have been axed with Winter, and we would be feeling much more positive about 2013.

almost whole DC FO just got canned so I'm sure he can bring people if he needs lol

[Oldtimer]

almost whole DC FO just got canned so I'm sure he can bring people if he needs lol

Wow, that's really bad news for you, even if the new owner is finally getting you a soccer-specific stadium, or so it seems.

[Detroit_TFC]

almost whole DC FO just got canned so I'm sure he can bring people if he needs lol

Owners taking an opportunity to install their own people? I wonder if Payne saw the writing on the wall and left. Or maybe he was given the opportunity to leave w/o getting fired.

[Oldtimer]

Owners taking an opportunity to install their own people? I wonder if Payne saw the writing on the wall and left. Or maybe he was given the opportunity to leave w/o getting fired.

Payne was having his role diminished. He wasn't going to be fired, but the new owners wanted a different stamp on the team. A "type A" person like Payne would never accept that, so he left.

*********************************************
Just in!

Ben Rycroft posts an article showing how Mariner had no clue that he was going to get a new boss. No wonder he looked so shocked and unhappy at the news conference:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3993-Did-Mariner-know-about-the-Payne-hiring

[Canary10]

Payne was having his role diminished. He wasn't going to be fired, but the new owners wanted a different stamp on the team. A "type A" person like Payne would never accept that, so he left.

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Just in!

Ben Rycroft posts an article showing how Mariner had no clue that he was going to get a new boss. No wonder he looked so shocked and unhappy at the news conference:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3993-Did-Mariner-know-about-the-Payne-hiring

Interesting. It really didn't appear he expected it. I'm not a fan of Mariner obviously, but the hiring process seems to be yet another demonstration of the ineptitude of this organization. Hopefully Payne does the job, but there's a lot we need to be vigilant about as fans. This front office really needs to be held to account.

[Oldtimer]

Interesting. It really didn't appear he expected it. I'm not a fan of Mariner obviously, but the hiring process seems to be yet another demonstration of the ineptitude of this organization. Hopefully Payne does the job, but there's a lot we need to be vigilant about as fans. This front office really needs to be held to account.

Knowing how DC was run, I think you'll find a totally different mindset from the FO going on. It will be a massive paradigm shift for us after so many years of disfunction. DC supporters talked about a lot of things (especially a new stadium), but they never had to talk about holding the FO to account. Payne was "one of them," and really made the club accountable to the supporters as part of his philosophy. You especially saw that when he fought to allow supporters to control their own section in DC.

[BuSaPuNk]

That's what makes me so supportive if this move. We finally have a President that puts fans and especially supporters first. The more you make the fans and supporters happy the better the product becomes. Plus he seems like a no BS type that will hold people accountable for there actions no matter what his relationship is with them. A big difference then what we have had in the past.

[Canary10]

Knowing how DC was run, I think you'll find a totally different mindset from the FO going on. It will be a massive paradigm shift for us after so many years of disfunction. DC supporters talked about a lot of things (especially a new stadium), but they never had to talk about holding the FO to account. Payne was "one of them," and really made the club accountable to the supporters as part of his philosophy. You especially saw that when he fought to allow supporters to control their own section in DC.

It won't be easy for him to change that culture though, and it'll take time. I can't wait for the day that I feel confident that our team does things above-board and with integrity. It's far from that now.

[mdc 77]

I don't think it takes as long as you think. This is a sports team, very different then a traditional corporate setting, something MLSE doesn't seem to realize most of the time. Setting a guy in place like Payne at the top of a sport organization you can quickly change the culture.

[BBBulldog]

Wow, that's really bad news for you, even if the new owner is finally getting you a soccer-specific stadium, or so it seems.

Prolly not, DU were never as dependent on FO as other DC groups.... we weren't treated same for it to be the case lol

So for us it might get easier (equality would be a good start), but then again with this being MLS I'm expecting Evan Dabby type to head FO at which point I might finally snap haha.