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soccer
11-23-2012, 11:38 AM
We can agree that the state of TFC is in the gutter. Mismanagement by political schemers in Mariner and Cochrane. Corrupted with the affiliation of Maclean "Super Duper Agent", and coercing players to sign with him.

How do we, the supporters, bring about change? Perhaps MLSE is not intuned of how messed up TFC truly is. How do we make it clear to the MLSE Board that changes need to be made. The town halls did nothing.

Option one, do not buy, renew, tickets to the game and if you already have cancel them. Hit MLSE where it will hurt them most, their $ profits. Only buy, renew, tickets once Mariner and Cochrane are completely gone, Maclean and any other "Super Agents" are banned, and the person that is put in charge knows what they are doing. Look at who NYRB have brought in recently. NYRB have got it right.

Option two, show up to the games, in full force, but no chanting TFC. Chant the names of Mariner and Cochrane in negative tones. Make it unbearable for them to have anything to do with the club. If we, the supporters, truly believe in the club's potential and the potential of soccer in this province and country we would show up to the games, right?

It is clear that Mariner is an egotistical man who believes that he is right and everyone else is wrong. He is not a tactician, he is not a motivator. He criticizes players, negatively, any chance he gets. He did it to Frings and Avila. Both of them WILL NOT be back next year. He said he would not have drafted Silva that high. Silva is one of the four best players on the squad, next to Frings, Hassli, and Koevermans. He believes that Dunfield is one of the "core" players. On a successful MLS squad, Dunfield would be the 15th man on the bench.

We, the supporters, need to make it clear to MLSE that they need to get TFC straightened out. We need do it NOW!

How do we do that, option one or option two?

PopePouri
11-23-2012, 11:44 AM
Option 1.

Phil
11-23-2012, 11:46 AM
Option 1 - Too late, today is the last day for renewals. You are targeting a really small crowd at this point.

Option 2 - Good luck getting anyone to not chant or even chant the same thing. 6 years and that has not happened to the level that would send a clear message.

We have been through these discussions as a group many times now and circle back on these observations.

Mod note - why is this news? I am going to relocate the thread into the general TFC area.

Yohan
11-23-2012, 11:51 AM
you should really pitch option 2 idea to U Sector ;)

FreekAce
11-23-2012, 11:58 AM
you should really pitch option 2 idea to U Sector ;)

win or lose, we drink the booze.

soccer
11-23-2012, 12:17 PM
Gentlemen, it is never too late to instill change. You have to be willing put in the effort.
It is too easy of an excuse to say its too late, or that its too difficult to organize everyone, ie RedPatch, USector, NorthSide, TribalNation, regular supporters. The Redpatch chants can be heard through out BMO. It does not take much to stop chanting TFC, or voulez vous coucher avec moi, or Dichio, and start chanting "Mariner is a wanker".

T-boy
11-23-2012, 12:27 PM
I still say go to the games, but refuse to go into the stadium. It will be quite telling if people have the WILL to go to the stadium, but not want to actually go inside. Imagine the sight of 1000 people standing outside the stadium while the game is going on?!

Pookie
11-23-2012, 12:42 PM
I support your spirit.

Question for the OP, what does "success" look like? If you mobilized the entire fan base to choose an option, what needs to happen, specifically, for everyone to resume their normal activities?

TFC will contend that it is searching for a president, one who will make changes regardless of what journalists/bloggers might suggest. Of course, we will have no idea how good this president is until time has passed. But do you continue this "protest" for a year or two or is the hiring enough.

Shakes McQueen
11-23-2012, 12:57 PM
I salute the fighting spirit of not accepting this, and wanting to do something about it (though anyone can suggest doing something on the internet, but then leave it to others to do the heavy lifting for them).

As for the actual thread - they get kind of repetitive.

- Scott

tfcleeds
11-23-2012, 01:11 PM
I saw the writing on the wall for 2013 when it became obvious Mariner and Cochrane were sticking around. I'm not attending any matches next season, and will watch on TV. If I have to watch shite, no reason I have to pay extra for it. That's my "protest".

Oldtimer
11-23-2012, 01:17 PM
How do we, the supporters, bring about change? Perhaps MLSE is not intuned of how messed up TFC truly is. How do we make it clear to the MLSE Board that changes need to be made. The town halls did nothing.


Step 1, join the Red Patch Boys. The more people this group represents, the stronger voice it will have. Plus people will be more inclined to listen to you if you're actually involved with the supporters.

Wull
11-23-2012, 01:41 PM
Step 1, join the Red Patch Boys. The more people this group represents, the stronger voice it will have. Plus people will be more inclined to listen to you if you're actually involved with the supporters.

Red Patch weren't official participants in the protests so their voice wouldn't have been heard anyway

Yagbod
11-23-2012, 01:55 PM
Step 1, join the Red Patch Boys. The more people this group represents, the stronger voice it will have. Plus people will be more inclined to listen to you if you're actually involved with the supporters.

I have a bit of a problem with that statement. While the group will have a stronger voice with more people in it, there seems to be lack of a will to have a voice. When we organized the 'make a statement' movement during the last two games there was almost zero support from the leaders of this group. That entire movement was organic and built from the members. We really could have used 'official' support, but there was none. So to encourage someone to join with the promise that their message will have a 'stronger voice' does not hold water. At least if you look at recent events.

Second, being "actually involved with the supporters" does not mean you have be a part of any group. Some of the best display's, statements and actions last year were done by largely unaffiliated suppporters. I don't know who 'soccer' is but he/she may be knee deep in supporter actions already. Being a member of an organized group is not a pre-requisite to being a supporter.

Yohan
11-23-2012, 01:58 PM
Second, being "actually involved with the supporters" does not mean you have be a part of any group. Some of the best display's, statements and actions last year were done by largely unaffiliated suppporters.or Stefan Frei... lol

Oldtimer
11-23-2012, 02:15 PM
What you don't realize is that the most successful stuff is done in RPB meetings with the club, rather than in colorful protests. That's why being a member helps.

Don't get me wrong, I wore a paper bag in the last game to voice my displeasure, but the only "protest" that ML$E has ever responded significantly to was a lack of sales. If you really want to affect things, don't attend the games. That's what brought the pricing down to year 1 pricing. 5 years of protests never did that.

(BTW, U-Sector is against protests, so you will never get a united front, which makes protesting even less effective).

Super
11-23-2012, 02:20 PM
I figure we're stuck with Mariner for now. Let's do a bit of dreaming here, and let's imagine that Mariner manages to turn things around - puts together a proper squad, and finds a way to introduce attractive football to BMO. Would you still want to booh the man? Would you still protest against him as coach?

Let's give the man a chance. If we shit the bed right out of the gate, then yes, let's push for his dismissal. But let's at least give the man a chance seeing as we're stuck with him. Not my choice, but it's the way it is - period.

Super
11-23-2012, 02:21 PM
What you don't realize is that the most successful stuff is done in RPB meetings with the club, rather than in colorful protests. That's why being a member helps.

Don't get me wrong, I wore a paper bag in the last game to voice my displeasure, but the only "protest" that ML$E has ever responded significantly to was a lack of sales. If you really want to affect things, don't attend the games. That's what brought the pricing down to year 1 pricing. 5 years of protests never did that.

(BTW, U-Sector is against protests, so you will never get a united front, which makes protesting even less effective).

Absolutely 100% true. The only way to truly push for a change with TFC is to not buy the product. Anything else is a complete waste of time - and this has been proven.

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2012, 02:23 PM
Renewed just now.

I'll chant TFC but not voulez-vous...

I'll be listening for you're wankering all game long, though. Good luck.


Wait...how can you wanker if you don't go to the game? Anyway let us know what you decide, I guess.

Yagbod
11-23-2012, 02:24 PM
1. Why don't we 'realize' that? Perhaps if we were kept more in the loop we would have a greater appreciation for that aspect.

2. What about the 'green' action? Or the FireAnselmi banner? Both of those got recognition. If the group actually unified on any message I think we would be heard. But we don't.

This may be a better discussion for the Members section. But it should be discussed.

T-boy
11-23-2012, 02:29 PM
I figure we're stuck with Mariner for now. Let's do a bit of dreaming here, and let's imagine that Mariner manages to turn things around - puts together a proper squad, and finds a way to introduce attractive football to BMO. Would you still want to booh the man? Would you still protest against him as coach?

Let's give the man a chance. If we shit the bed right out of the gate, then yes, let's push for his dismissal. But let's at least give the man a chance seeing as we're stuck with him. Not my choice, but it's the way it is - period.

We (the supporters) really need to come to some agreement on how long Mariner gets next season. 2 games? 4 games? 2 months? Half season?

Personally, I'll give him 5 games at most. if he hasn't got at LEAST 1 win and a couple of draws, or 2 wins in 5 games (so 4 to 6 points in 5 games as a minimum), then he's gotta go. At least one win is for sure. No win's in 4 and I'd already be pulling the plug on him.

There's no way that MLSE can let a manager go 9 games without a single point ever again.

ryan
11-23-2012, 02:33 PM
We (the supporters) really need to come to some agreement on how long Mariner gets next season. 2 games? 4 games? 2 months? Half season?

Personally, I'll give him 5 games at most. if he hasn't got at LEAST 1 win and a couple of draws, or 2 wins in 5 games (so 4 to 6 points in 5 games as a minimum), then he's gotta go. At least one win is for sure. No win's in 4 and I'd already be pulling the plug on him.

There's no way that MLSE can let a manager go 9 games without a single point ever again.

why do a whole offseason with him for 5 games? wasteful.

T-boy
11-23-2012, 02:35 PM
why do a whole offseason with him for 5 games? wasteful.

I'm replying to the fact that we appear to be stuck with Mariner. So, I don't think we have a choice of getting rid of the guy now. So, as that is the case, how long do you give him next season?

PAOK17
11-23-2012, 02:35 PM
Judging from what I've been reading here and hearing from the town halls, the majority of TFC fans dislike at the very least Mariner. The more knowledgeable ones included upper management including Cochrane, Bierne and Anselmi. Now we don't even have to be sticking to a soccer style chant such as "Mariner is a wanker". Those types of chants are catchy but you rarely hear those kinds of chants in North America. I say stick to the traditional one of "Fire (insert name here)." I'm usually for the more sophisticated chants, but that one is used in every sport on this continent. Heck it was used for Ron Wilson wasn't it? It's one every fan in the stand will recognize and will easily catch on as the results have and will continue to speak for themselves. Of the casuals that are still there, or the SSH's who don't really follow the RPB, Usector, etc. how many would still support Mariner after a few losses? How many even support him now?

A nice "Fire Mariner" chant as the teams walk out on the pitch on opening day would suffice. Make it our only chant. It will catch on. The media will be forced to ask him about it. And he will either react in public OR do his typical "I don't hear anything" routine. Too bad for him, his bosses WILL have heard it.

Also for the comment about USector not wanting to ever protest, that's just odd. I've never heard of a supporter group like this in the world.

Canary10
11-23-2012, 02:36 PM
I think you have to give him until end of May/beginning of June. About 1/3 of the season I think.

T-boy
11-23-2012, 02:38 PM
I think you have to give him until end of May/beginning of June. About 1/3 of the season I think.

Would you honestly go 9 games without a single point?

[NBF]
11-23-2012, 02:44 PM
Option 1 - Too late, today is the last day for renewals. You are targeting a really small crowd at this point.

Option 2 - Good luck getting anyone to not chant or even chant the same thing. 6 years and that has not happened to the level that would send a clear message.

We have been through these discussions as a group many times now and circle back on these observations.

Mod note - why is this news? I am going to relocate the thread into the general TFC area.

(Thats different, most of your nursery rhymes are weak-sauce.)

You gotta stick with the classics, like this one:

1. Mariner.
2. Puto!
3. Cochrane.
4. Puto!
5. Anselmi.
6. Puto!

Mainly, because its always a numbers game, the only way you are going to achieve anything is by not renewing or buying Toronto merchandize.

Canary10
11-23-2012, 02:47 PM
Would you honestly go 9 games without a single point?

Well, you'd have to get to the 9th game to see if you go 9 games without a single point...:)

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2012, 03:00 PM
Judging from what I've been reading here and hearing from the town halls, the majority of TFC fans dislike at the very least Mariner. The more knowledgeable ones included upper management including Cochrane, Bierne and Anselmi. Now we don't even have to be sticking to a soccer style chant such as "Mariner is a wanker". Those types of chants are catchy but you rarely hear those kinds of chants in North America. I say stick to the traditional one of "Fire (insert name here)." I'm usually for the more sophisticated chants, but that one is used in every sport on this continent. Heck it was used for Ron Wilson wasn't it? It's one every fan in the stand will recognize and will easily catch on as the results have and will continue to speak for themselves. Of the casuals that are still there, or the SSH's who don't really follow the RPB, Usector, etc. how many would still support Mariner after a few losses? How many even support him now?

A nice "Fire Mariner" chant as the teams walk out on the pitch on opening day would suffice. Make it our only chant. It will catch on. The media will be forced to ask him about it. And he will either react in public OR do his typical "I don't hear anything" routine. Too bad for him, his bosses WILL have heard it.

Also for the comment about USector not wanting to ever protest, that's just odd. I've never heard of a supporter group like this in the world.

Just youtubed the Fire Ron Wilson chant. Barely Audible. It was definitely the press that followed that was a more determining factor with that decision.

Fire Paul Mariner would be more like the chant you describe but doesn't make it that less lame IMHO. Who would chant that at first game who wasn't on these boards? Do what you like though.

Since I feel it fair to offer my own suggestion in place of criticizing anothers... I wouldn't do it myself but if it comes to an act of non-confidence for the masses I'd suggest-


We all wear albatross' around our necks.

jloome
11-23-2012, 03:02 PM
Let's give the man a chance.

Surely you freaking jest. Fourteen straight games without a point, the fourth lowest point total in history, and he's the former Director of Personnel in a badly undermanned team.

Jesus wept, when are people going to see this guy for what he is?

cmonyoureds
11-23-2012, 03:03 PM
Just youtubed the Fire Ron Wilson chant. Barely Audible. It was definitely the press that followed that was a more determining factor with that decision.

Fire Paul Mariner would be more like the chant you describe but doesn't make it that less lame IMHO. Who would chant that at first game who wasn't on these boards? Do what you like though.

Since I feel it fair to offer my own suggestion in place of criticizing anothers... I wouldn't do it myself but if it comes to an act of non-confidence for the masses I'd suggest-


We all wear albatross' around our necks.

Nice. I'll contact Bjork and see if we can have the name of the company that produced that swan outfit thingey to do up some albatross hoodies or something.

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2012, 03:04 PM
;1543701'](Thats different, most of your nursery rhymes are weak-sauce.)

You gotta stick with the classics, like this one:

1. Mariner.
2. Puto!
3. Cochrane.
4. Puto!
5. Anselmi.
6. Puto!

Mainly, because its always a numbers game, the only way you are going to achieve anything is by not renewing or buying Toronto merchandize.




That chant is just too complicated. Can you make it into a nursery rhyme?


So this is a chant thread now? Welcome off season.

Oldtimer
11-23-2012, 03:04 PM
We're going to continue this thread in the member's section:

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?33094-Post-Town-Hall-Notes-thoughts

Shakes McQueen
11-23-2012, 03:05 PM
OP has been banned for being a previously banned user (more than once), under a new name. Confirmed with an IP check. Just in case anyone noticed and wondered.

- Scott