TFC to hire team president?

[Yohan]

According to Ben Rycroft... but with Mariner kept as manager

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/opinion/2012/11/toronto-fc-searches-for-respectability-in-club-president.html?cmp=rss

[Richard]

$50 the person likes the English brand of football and somehow related to Mariner, then again it could be Cochrane. Im not holding my breath, just hope they get full reigns to hire after PM and Cochrane sink the ship next year.

[TFC07]

$50 the person likes the English brand of football and somehow related to Mariner, then again it could be Cochrane.

I hope not, but ML$E will probably hire a president with "North American experience". I personally I hope we get president who wouldn't take any BS from anyone.

[brad]

My ticket rep sent this to me today


You will be happy to know that Tom Anselmi has acknowledged that with Aron’s departure, we have a leadership void at the top of our team operation. He has said that MLSE’s current priority is to put experienced leadership in place , with an MLS track record of success and a knowledge of the game in North America. That person will have responsibility to assess the team from top to bottom and get us back on track, pursuing a vision of TFC football that is attractive , attacking football.

[Richard]

I hope not, but ML$E will probably hire a president with "North American experience". I personally I hope we get president who wouldn't take any BS from anyone.

I just wonder if Klinsmann recommended a president, would be nice to know if MLSE had the chance to bring somone in with real leadership and vision. They could have gotten Mariner and Winter working together or saw that one of the two needed to be axed.

[TFC07]

How many presidents with proven MLS success are out there?

[Richard]

Not that many, this should have been in place since day 1.

[TFC07]

I just wonder if Klinsmann recommended a president, would be nice to know if MLSE had the chance to bring somone in with real leadership and vision. They could have gotten Mariner and Winter working together or saw that one of the two needed to be axed.

I wouldn't be surprised if Klinsmann did recommend a president, but MLSE decided to not get one and keep Tommy boy in charge.

[andyc]

Can anyone say Stevie Nicol???

[Richard]

Can anyone say Stevie Nicol???

You just blew my mind, holy shit lol.

[ensco]

Anselmi was and is the "Soccer President". He may not be the public face any more, doesn't matter.

Anybody who would be worth hiring, would insist that he have the freedom to fire Mariner/Cohrane immediately, and would have contractual protection against involvement/interference from Anselmi.

Unless you have reason to think these things would occur (I don't), this topic is a waste of time.

[SoccMan]

The only choice that would get me to renew would be Peter Wilt as president.

[DOMIN8R]

According to Ben Rycroft... but with Mariner kept as manager

I can confirm that I have been told this as well.

[[NBF]]

Can anyone say Stevie Nicol???

I was going to make the same suggestion, because its not that far fetched.

Its really strange twist if "the candidate" has to have MLS experience. There really aint much choices, but my favorite would be Erik Soler, the guy that NYRB just let go, only because of the amount of information he must have about potential players capable to play at the MLS level.

Steve Nichols would just make things similar to a soap opera:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yW2ANr_nKIc/S2rL9wAVi1I/AAAAAAAADLs/dNesAl6Q21c/s400/DAYS-OF-OUR-LIVES2009-08-27-1251395299.gif

[Nerepis]

If you can't fire Mariner are you really a President or are you just a figurehead/scapegoat?

[BeachTory]

I can confirm that I have been told this as well.

was this tonight you heard this? You were so close after all

[Pookie]

I can confirm that I have been told this as well.

Seems to be the common opinion.

Reality is that no one has a contract forever and a new GM is going to want to bring in his own staff. PM will have a short leash.

[ensco]

This would be a real test of the new Board.

Peddie/Anselmi forced GMs/Presidents to inherit or accept subordinates on many occasions, across all MLSE teams. It's our special badge of ultra dysfunctionality.

All this messaging around how the new management wanting to win - this is where the rubber hits the road.

[Ultra & Proud]

The only choice that would get me to renew would be Peter Wilt as president.
Not sure why so many people think a MLS 1.0 exec with a so-so track record in Chicago and a whole lot of fail in his post MLS ventures is the reliable, put your money down choice to run the club.

[ag futbol]

Peddie/Anselmi forced GMs/Presidents to inherit or accept subordinates on many occasions, across all MLSE teams. It's our special badge of ultra dysfunctionality.

That explains a lot about our current situation.

Hopefully someone with no connection to the current lot comes in, uses their performance next season as a safety blanket, then cleans house just in time for 2014.

[Initial B]

Not sure why so many people think a MLS 1.0 exec with a so-so track record in Chicago and a whole lot of fail in his post MLS ventures is the reliable, put your money down choice to run the club.
Well, he's better than what we've got now. I wouldn't mind if James Easton was named president either.

[TOBOR !]

My ticket rep sent this to me today


You will be happy to know that Tom Anselmi has acknowledged that with Aron’s departure, we have a leadership void at the top of our team operation. He has said that MLSE’s current priority is to put experienced leadership in place , with an MLS track record of success and a knowledge of the game in North America. That person will have responsibility to assess the team from top to bottom and get us back on track, pursuing a vision of TFC football that is attractive , attacking football.

LOL !

Here's an excerpt from an email I received from Tom himself two weeks ago:


...Obviously , this year was a huge disappointment after starting off with some promise. But everything we put in place with Juergen wasn't working after a year and a half and something had to give. That doesn't mean we are abandoning the vision. Far from it. The current staff temporarily put it on the sideline while trying to simplify the game and get some results with the current roster of players , especially after so many injuries depleted the roster. But that doesn't mean we want to abandon that long term vision.
With Arons departure, we have a leadership void at the top of our team operation. Our current priority is to put experienced leadership in place , with an MLS track record of success and a knowledge of the game in North America. That person will have responsibility to assess the team from top to bottom and get us back on track, pursuing a vision of TFC football that is attractive , attacking football.
Hopefully you will wait and see who we put in place , understand their approach and then make your renewal decision. I appreciate your loyalty and candour , and if you choose not to renew I respect that decision . But I can tell you we are committed to turning this team around and making you proud again.
Thanks again.



At least he's staying on message.

[reggie]

Clive toye

[mdc 77]

lol Clive Toye? and people think that Peter Wilt shouldn't be hired because he's a so called "MLS 1.0" guy.

[Fort York Redcoat]

lol Clive Toye? and people think that Peter Wilt shouldn't be hired because he's a so called "MLS 1.0" guy.

Not the same people.

I think it can be agreed that a president should and is more likely to have a long term vision. At least longer than "letting the players determine the style of play" year after year.

[Wull]

here's the thing I don't get, surely if the players determine the style of play then there isn't a need to play people out of position?

[DangerRed]

Here's the most important passage in this story (which is true by the way, that Paul will stay and an overseer "lite" will be brought in):
"Mariner confirmed recently that he had, indeed, been given the green light for the team's seventh campaign, but no president with an ounce of corporate awareness is going to step into a senior role where he doesn't have the power to hire and fire his staff. MLSE's commitment to its coach immediately undermines that position and sets up the very real potential for future conflict."

[TOBOR !]

I'm going to go out on (not much of a) limb here and say whoever they appoint will either have previously worked with PM, or will be from Bermuda.

[Shakes McQueen]

LOL !

Here's an excerpt from an email I received from Tom himself two weeks ago:
At least he's staying on message.

Not surprised that he cut and pasted the direct quote from Anselmi - nothing would get a ticket rep fired faster than making news by accidentally putting words in the company president's mouth, that he never actually said.

This news could be a positive development, but as others have said - if they don't have authority to do something like fire Cochrane and/or Mariner, then it's kind of a powerless position. Maybe they will let this person do that (they've never publicly guaranteed either guy their job, have they?), but I'm not holding my breath.

At any rate, it should be interesting to see who they think meets the benchmark for such a position. Surprise me with a thoughtful choice, MLSE.

- Scott

[Ultra & Proud]

Well, he's better than what we've got now. I wouldn't mind if James Easton was named president either.

Only if you believe something is better than nothing.

That being said and I agree that it will be someone Mariner's worked with because no would would take the job otherwise. The Bermuda President suggestion is absurd so when all added up I guess all signs point to Steve Nicol.

[TFC07]

Steve Nicol has no experience as a president of soccer club. This will be a stupid hiring and just add more fuel to the fire instead of taking out the fire. TFC needs an EXPERIENCE president who has a proven track record. This North American experience is BS, we just need someone who knows how to run a soccer club both on and off the field.

[[NBF]]

here's the thing I don't get, surely if the players determine the style of play then there isn't a need to play people out of position?

A real conundrum isn't it?

IMO, the real truth to Mariner's plan is that he doesn't have a plan, by his own admission, his only plan is to be the Head Coach for this coming season and as a result he will likely walk away with a hefty payout.

Thats more like his retirement plan. Retire at 59-60 and live in village in Belize somewhere.

[Canary10]

;1543443']A real conundrum isn't it?

IMO, the real truth to Mariner's plan is that he doesn't have a plan, by his own admission, his only plan is to be the Head Coach for this coming season and as a result he will likely walk away with a hefty payout.

Thats more like his retirement plan. Retire at 59-60 and live in village in Belize somewhere.


The reality is, he plays one kind of football. It doesn't matter who is the in the line-up, it'll always be the same.

[Belfast_Boy]

this seems to be the party line now. this is what we've been asking for. it's about time.

the proof is in action.

Anselmi is bringing in the next guy so he can fire Mariner. that can't happen soon enough. feel sorry for the people that thought Mariner had the knowledge and experience. what a wanker.

[[NBF]]

this seems to be the party line now. this is what we've been asking for. it's about time.

the proof is in action.

Anselmi is bringing in the next guy so he can fire Mariner. that can't happen soon enough. feel sorry for the people that thought Mariner had the knowledge and experience. what a wanker.

LOL@"Ship of Fools" can you post a larger pic of your avatar.

[Ultra & Proud]

Steve Nicol has no experience as a president of soccer club. This will be a stupid hiring and just add more fuel to the fire instead of taking out the fire. TFC needs an EXPERIENCE president who has a proven track record. This North American experience is BS, we just need someone who knows how to run a soccer club both on and off the field.
When hiring and appointing people to positions of power at TFC, historically experience has never been an issue. They'll hire just about anybody to do any job basically and with them saying that the new guy has to take Mariner as manager then the field is cut down massively. That only leaves Mariner's buddies (Nicol) or people desperate to get back in the game because they've grown tired of the women's leagues and indoor leagues (Wilt). Either way we're looking at shitty options unless of course Anselmi is working behind Mariner's back and he isn't as safe as he thinks he is. Backstabbing seems to go on a lot in the MLSE back rooms so why not this time too? Maybe Mariner will get the axe in the back when he least expects it.

[Canary10]

When hiring and appointing people to positions of power at TFC, historically experience has never been an issue. They'll hire just about anybody to do any job basically and with them saying that the new guy has to take Mariner as manager then the field is cut down massively. That only leaves Mariner's buddies (Nicol) or people desperate to get back in the game because they've grown tired of the women's leagues and indoor leagues (Wilt). Either way we're looking at shitty options unless of course Anselmi is working behind Mariner's back and he isn't as safe as he thinks he is. Backstabbing seems to go on a lot in the MLSE back rooms so why not this time too? Maybe Mariner will get the axe in the back when he least expects it.

I personally don't think a new president should come in guns ablazing. I want Mariner out, but I'm prepared to endure him until the president has had a chance to properly evaluate. BUT, he has to have the power to fire him. Will this be the case with Anselmi so close by? I don't know. Still, I think it could be a very positive move if they hire right.

[brad]

Personally, I don't think the prez not having the ability to fire Mariner on the spot is necessarily all that damning of the role. It depends on what is happening behind the scenes. If Mariner has performance based targets laid out, and the prez has the ability to fire him if they are not being met then I don't have an issue with the specific arrangement.

The real test will be seeing what happens when Mariners time is up. Does Cochrane go with him? Does the new structure follow the typical MLSE setup? That's what I'm curious about.

To be clear, I still think Mariner and Cochrane need to go now. These guys are going to cripple the team for the next 2-3 years IMHO with the players they sign.

[Ultra & Proud]

I personally don't think a new president should come in guns ablazing. I want Mariner out, but I'm prepared to endure him until the president has had a chance to properly evaluate. BUT, he has to have the power to fire him. Will this be the case with Anselmi so close by? I don't know. Still, I think it could be a very positive move if they hire right.
But really, would it be massively shocking if they hired a president secretly or have one set up without others knowing. By others I mean the current coaching staff. Then allow this new guy to take a look at how things are, watch tape, see video of practices, etc. Then say it's up to him what direction the team takes but in teh meantime they don't want to drop the hammer on Mariner and company just in case they are retained. Also because all these town halls, the draft, and scouting is going on currently Anselmi could see it as 'the best of both worlds' scenario. Then if this president says sack the bunch, I could see them waiting until he has his whole staff ready so they can do one massive fan-pleasing (in theory) presser and let this new guy say he has all the answers and the 'keys to the franchise' like the guys at MLSE say so often. Then say Mariner has been re-assigned to a different position in the Academy or something along with any other coaches or back room guys not in this new guy's plan.

[brad]

Also, I have no faith in them getting this right. The hiring & position will be loaded with typical MLSE corporate CYA stuff, and they will probably hire the wrong guy. They've never been able to hire the right person in a football context yet, so why any faith they will get it right this time?

[Canary10]

But really, would it be massively shocking if they hired a president secretly or have one set up without others knowing. By others I mean the current coaching staff. Then allow this new guy to take a look at how things are, watch tape, see video of practices, etc. Then say it's up to him what direction the team takes but in teh meantime they don't want to drop the hammer on Mariner and company just in case they are retained. Also because all these town halls, the draft, and scouting is going on currently Anselmi could see it as 'the best of both worlds' scenario. Then if this president says sack the bunch, I could see them waiting until he has his whole staff ready so they can do one massive fan-pleasing (in theory) presser and let this new guy say he has all the answers and the 'keys to the franchise' like the guys at MLSE say so often. Then say Mariner has been re-assigned to a different position in the Academy or something along with any other coaches or back room guys not in this new guy's plan.

Lol. Fuck, with these guys, anything's possible. There's not one scenario I would ever say couldn't happen!

[Canary10]

Also, I have no faith in them getting this right. The hiring & position will be loaded with typical MLSE corporate CYA stuff, and they will probably hire the wrong guy. They've never been able to hire the right person in a football context yet, so why any faith they will get it right this time?

This might be the most massive hire they ever do. If they get it wrong, they might never recover. I hope they know that and are putting the proper effort equivalent to its importance.

[Ultra & Proud]

Also, I have no faith in them getting this right. The hiring & position will be loaded with typical MLSE corporate CYA stuff, and they will probably hire the wrong guy. They've never been able to hire the right person in a football context yet, so why any faith they will get it right this time?
I don't think anyone said it will be the right guy and history says it won't but that maybe whoever it is doesn't really have to stick to this 'Mariner stays as manager' thing that they stated in those town halls. Who said that anyway? Not Anselmi as he wasn't there so it was said by someone who may be on their way out if they hire a president that has any real power. Even if it's some idiot who bumbles us up even worse.

[Ultra & Proud]

This might be the most massive hire they ever do. If they get it wrong, they might never recover. I hope they know that and are putting the proper effort equivalent to its importance.
Agree but if Anselmi is already doing interviews with people then he should realize that forcing a manager on any prospective president won't be met kindly.

[brad]

This might be the most massive hire they ever do. If they get it wrong, they might never recover. I hope they know that and are putting the proper effort equivalent to its importance.

The one thing that have not done in all of our hires is actually get someone with a successful track record anywhere, let alone the US. Everyone is either inexperienced and being given their shot at management. Our only managers with experience running a first team were MoJo (and he was a failure before coming to us) and Preki, who's credentials were alright but not exactly stellar.

I've said this for years. Back a dump truck full of money up to Arena or Schmidt and give them the keys. Screw DP money to a player, give it to one of these guys. No idea if they could work as a president, but I have no doubt that full control to one of these two would result in a pretty serious turn around of our club.

[Canary10]

The one thing that have not done in all of our hires is actually get someone with a successful track record anywhere, let alone the US. Everyone is either inexperienced and being given their shot at management. Our only managers with experience running a first team were MoJo (and he was a failure before coming to us) and Preki, who's credentials were alright but not exactly stellar.

I've said this for years. Back a dump truck full of money up to Arena or Schmidt and give them the keys. Screw DP money to a player, give it to one of these guys. No idea if they could work as a president, but I have no doubt that full control to one of these two would result in a pretty serious turn around of our club.

I'd say Kinnear.

[T-boy]

I personally don't think a new president should come in guns ablazing. I want Mariner out, but I'm prepared to endure him until the president has had a chance to properly evaluate. BUT, he has to have the power to fire him. Will this be the case with Anselmi so close by? I don't know. Still, I think it could be a very positive move if they hire right.

Totally agreed there. Mariner needs to go, but we also need to avoid filling in the void after his departure with a "non-hire" like Brennan. If Mariner is to be fired, we need to have a president who has a plan and can stick with it and see it through, hire the right people and stick with the plan. That was clearly the problem after Winter left - we just hired the "best possible person" internally without sticking to the plan. A president needs to come and be strong and stick with a vision. Anslemi isn't a football guy at all, and is now busy dealing with the business end of a big organisation, there is definitely a gap where we need somebody with at LEAST sports management experience, and ideally football experience at the top of the TFC ladder.

[Canary10]

Agree but if Anselmi is already doing interviews with people then he should realize that forcing a manager on any prospective president won't be met kindly.

Absolutely. If I were Anselmi, I'd say be prepared to give him six months, then whatever happens is up to you. A good leader should do that anyway in my opinion, so I don't think that's out of line or cutting out the presiden'ts authority. In all likelihood PM will hang himself in that time.

But they really need to get this right. As fans, we need to believe he's a guy with his own voice, that won't take shit, will be prepared to make and act on hard decisions and isn't PM's dummy. And have the confidence in his football knowledge to do it. The internal staff at MLSE have to be able to support him. And the league as well - one message out of the town halls is that TFC has a lot of relationship building to do with the league. There aren't a lot of people out there who can command all that.

[Ajax TFC]

As long as all Mariner's power bar game day selection goes to the prez, I don't mind as much if we're stuck with him till the end of the seaosn. What scares me is the prospect of Mariner being in control of signing and releasing players. The sooner that power passes to someone intelligent, the better

[ag futbol]

As long as all Mariner's power bar game day selection goes to the prez, I don't mind as much if we're stuck with him till the end of the seaosn. What scares me is the prospect of Mariner being in control of signing and releasing players. The sooner that power passes to someone intelligent, the better
I'm not too concerned about that. We've gone up and down before, whatever they do with players can ultimately be recovered from.

What concerns me is that the new "president" will be nothing more than another insulating layer of self-entrenchment. We saw how long it took to rid ourselves of Mo Johnston, we are headed for the same sort of situation here if they don't take a serious look at the way they run their operations. As ensco said, the new pres needs the power to hire his own people and replace anybody he wants to.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'd say Kinnear.

I don't know. He doesn't use the 4-3-3 formation so that means boring hoofball and such. A bunch of supporters wouldn't be happy.

[Macksam]

I'm not too concerned about that. We've gone up and down before, whatever they do with players can ultimately be recovered from.

What concerns me is that the new "president" will be nothing more than another insulating layer of self-entrenchment. We saw how long it took to rid ourselves of Mo Johnston, we are headed for the same sort of situation here if they don't take a serious look at the way they run their operations. As ensco said, the new pres needs the power to hire his own people and replace anybody he wants to.

Yeah, but if he has to keep PM as manager for a minimum amount of time, I don't think it's that bad. However, after he fires PM, he should have full control of firing or hiring his staff no matter what.

[Canary10]

I don't know. He doesn't use the 4-3-3 formation so that means boring hoofball and such. A bunch of supporters wouldn't be happy.

Actually he does sometimes.

[T-boy]

I don't know. He doesn't use the 4-3-3 formation so that means boring hoofball and such. A bunch of supporters wouldn't be happy.

I don't understand the thought that 4-4-2 HAS to be hoofball? Or that 4-3-3 IS the only way to play these days? You can play perfectly pretty 4-4-2, or 4-5-1, 4-2-4 or 5-3-2. You can play a passing game in almost ANY formation. Formation does NOT equal style! There seems to be a lot of supporters who don't realise that at all.

[Belfast_Boy]

;1543451']LOL@"Ship of Fools" can you post a larger pic of your avatar.

here you go. it was my banner for the last two home games.

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3066&d=1349325267

[Ultra & Proud]

Actually he does sometimes.
But never when it comes down to it though. These playoffs have been one big long balling, counter attacking display from Houston. But whatever, it works, has worked, and most likely always will work, so for me, I could give two shits about our tactical formation. I like the system Houston has and I could certainly live with that here. I know lots of people would still bemoan us giving up the total football experiment but I'd take Kinnear's proven winning style over any experimental 'beautiful' style that hopefully Anselmi has no interest in trying again. At least not for a while anyway.

For me Kinnear would be dream manager #1. I say dream because it'll never happen.

[DOMIN8R]

was this tonight you heard this? You were so close after all

No BT. I was told before the Town Hall yesterday by someone who I trust. Of course, until it's announced - it's still speculation. MLSE has made detailed plans before only to change their minds moments before pulling the trigger.

Perhaps, we should be more careful what we wish for. g:D

After the Town Hall yesterday - I do feel a little better......

[Ultra & Proud]

I don't understand the thought that 4-4-2 HAS to be hoofball?
Of course it doesn't. I was being sarcastic because it seems a lot of people everywhere miss all the points you made in your post. I read a whole mess on Twitter about that because someone with stars in their eyes said we should get Harry Redknapp to be our manager and GM and then that guy was jumped on by a bunch of folks freaking out about being stuck in 1970's hoofball world forever and that he and Mariner could form a good partnership as they are the same. Seems that if an Englishman or the 4-4-2 is mentioned these days that it automatically means hoofball. I have no idea why.

[Canary10]

But never when it comes down to it though. These playoffs have been one big long balling, counter attacking display from Houston. But whatever, it works, has worked, and most likely always will work, so for me, I could give two shits about our tactical formation. I like the system Houston has and I could certainly live with that here. I know lots of people would still bemoan us giving up the total football experiment but I'd take Kinnear's proven winning style over any experimental 'beautiful' style that hopefully Anselmi has no interest in trying again. At least not for a while anyway.

For me Kinnear would be dream manager #1. I say dream because it'll never happen.

Yeah I agree it`s a total dream, but others put out Arena and Schmitt, so what the hell. It`s all a dream. I like him partly because he will switch up formations. He`s not as one-dimensional a manager as Mariner. And, as you said, he wins, especially in big games.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yeah I agree it`s a total dream, but others put out Arena and Schmitt, so what the hell. It`s all a dream. I like him partly because he will switch up formations. He`s not as one-dimensional a manager as Mariner. And, as you said, he wins, especially in big games.
I'd take Kinnear over both the other two easy.

[Canary10]

Of course it doesn't. I was being sarcastic because it seems a lot of people everywhere miss all the points you made in your post. I read a whole mess on Twitter about that because someone with stars in their eyes said we should get Harry Redknapp to be our manager and GM and then that guy was jumped on by a bunch of folks freaking out about being stuck in 1970's hoofball world forever and that he and Mariner could form a good partnership as they are the same. Seems that if an Englishman or the 4-4-2 is mentioned these days that it automatically means hoofball. I have no idea why.

Ha, Harry wasn`t even only a 4-4-2 manager. He played a lot of 4-2-3-1 last year as it fits a club with several fast wingers. In fact, I`d say formation-wise, 4-2-3-1 makes the most sense for TFC as well given the players we actually have....

Another guy that gets a bad rep is Sam Allardyce. West Ham fans thought they were nuts for hiring him (a `hoof-ball guy`) on a team that likes to play attacking football. Well, there he is playing mostly a 4-3-3 at West Ham, and they`re now the second best club in London.....

[tfcmanu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Yallop

TFC President

http://www.theglobalgame.com/images/yallop.gif
:rolleyes:

[v00d00daddy]

Do people really have confidence that even IF they hire a president...this will help anything?

LOL

I'm sorry but after all that has happened....I don't see how people can be optimistic about anything until they actually see who it is, what he does, and what he says this team will do in the future.

Naming a president means nothing right now. There are sooooooo many other issues with this team and the people hiring a president are the same ones that:

-scrapped a plan that they had barely started to implement
-promoted a guy who was a part of the problem to begin with
-kept on that guy even after he's shown he's a shit coach that can't get results, an embarrassment on the touchlines and in front of a microphone, and a dickhead to several players.

But yeah....they're hire a guy that will fix things. :rolleyes5:

LOL

[T-boy]

Of course it doesn't. I was being sarcastic because it seems a lot of people everywhere miss all the points you made in your post. I read a whole mess on Twitter about that because someone with stars in their eyes said we should get Harry Redknapp to be our manager and GM and then that guy was jumped on by a bunch of folks freaking out about being stuck in 1970's hoofball world forever and that he and Mariner could form a good partnership as they are the same. Seems that if an Englishman or the 4-4-2 is mentioned these days that it automatically means hoofball. I have no idea why.

Totally agreed. My personal favourite formation is 4-4-2, with the 2 wide midfielders being fast wingers. I've seen several teams play outstanding football that way. There's no real reason (other than people jumping on bandwagons) why people shouldn't want to play like that.


Ha, Harry wasn`t even only a 4-4-2 manager. He played a lot of 4-2-3-1 last year as it fits a club with several fast wingers. In fact, I`d say formation-wise, 4-2-3-1 makes the most sense for TFC as well given the players we actually have....

Another guy that gets a bad rep is Sam Allardyce. West Ham fans thought they were nuts for hiring him (a `hoof-ball guy`) on a team that likes to play attacking football. Well, there he is playing mostly a 4-3-3 at West Ham, and they`re now the second best club in London.....

I've seen a Harry team play great 4-4-2 football. And I've seen him play 4-2-3-1 (or, I'd say it was 4-2-1-2-1 last season, Sandro and Parker playing the DM, Modric playing in the hole, and VDV and Bale playing either side of Adebayor, or a version of that!). Harry definitely isn't a hoofball guy, he just got a semi-reputation for signing Crouch a couple of times. But even when he played Crouch, launching a ball to the guy was one of the last things they did often.

I think it comes down to a lot of people who don't know so much about football, watching Spain and Barca play a couple of games on the TV, and then saying that "all good football can only be 4-3-3". And then the same people watching England play defensive football in big tournaments. That does NOT mean that ALL Spanish football is 4-3-3 and beautiful, or that all English football is defensive. You can't cite a couple of examples and make vast statements when its just not true. I've seen some amazing football in the English conference, short pass and move, no long balls at all!

[jloome]

Anselmi was and is the "Soccer President". He may not be the public face any more, doesn't matter.

Anybody who would be worth hiring, would insist that he have the freedom to fire Mariner/Cohrane immediately, and would have contractual protection against involvement/interference from Anselmi.

Unless you have reason to think these things would occur (I don't), this topic is a waste of time.

Agreed. This whole process, this whole off-season, is a total fucking sham so far.

Look, everybody out there keeps saying "What's wrong with TFC?" and the answer's pretty fucking obvious: whoever is in charge of hiring people is an idiot.

And unfortunately, as with getting a politician interested in structural political reform, it's hard to get rid of the guy who can protect himself by just hiring and firing more people.

Cann points to the "revolving door" of players and managers; The answer to that isn't "let the same guy hire another one!"

It's "get rid of the idiot who caused all this."

But now the idiot's in charge of the whole sports division. If anyone ever needed to understand why companies under-perform when their senior management and board are publicly disconnected, this is the best example in history. My wife actually used them for a corporate presentation recently in the utilities sector on how to blow every basic management principle from day one. People in the room were shocked, and these aren't even people who necessarily like sports, let alone soccer.

No, until Anselmi and Cochrane (and probably Beirne as well, for not being smart and principled enough to leave already) are gone, this shit will just go on forever. Just as with Klinsmann, he'll go to outside help or whomever Earl suggests, and we'll get a general idea divorced from the final corporate decision, a corporate decision divorced from the league realities, and another five years of dissolution.

I'm serious when I say I can see this club doing a Grizzlies and moving to another market before any of this is fixed. Given the amount they're now in the hole due to capital costs and how much more valuable the franchise would be somewhere else, it seems more realistic than expecting it to get fixed.

[DoubleUp]

I don't understand the thought that 4-4-2 HAS to be hoofball? Or that 4-3-3 IS the only way to play these days? You can play perfectly pretty 4-4-2, or 4-5-1, 4-2-4 or 5-3-2. You can play a passing game in almost ANY formation. Formation does NOT equal style! There seems to be a lot of supporters who don't realise that at all.
This!.

I dont care what formation we play, but the style is very important to me. I dont like direct(hoofball) football at all .

[jloome]

This!.

I dont care what formation we play, but the style is very important to me. I dont like direct(hoofball) football at all .

If a team's movement is structured to support the player on the ball, a good coach should be able to adjust things like how directly they play based on the opposition. If you're midfield's going to be dominated a direct game can even things up; it's also essential for games when you're protecting a lead or the other team is playing a very high line.

So it's all about cohesion in a formation or perhaps two formations. Generally, I think most tacticians these days would agree that the game is won on the margins, making possession extremely important as a general stat. If you're playing so directly that you're going to spend 75 minutes in your own end, you better have a pair of assassins up top, or forget about it (as this season's results demonstrated.)

[Shakes McQueen]

Agreed. This whole process, this whole off-season, is a total fucking sham so far.

Look, everybody out there keeps saying "What's wrong with TFC?" and the answer's pretty fucking obvious: whoever is in charge of hiring people is an idiot.

And unfortunately, as with getting a politician interested in structural political reform, it's hard to get rid of the guy who can protect himself by just hiring and firing more people.

Cann points to the "revolving door" of players and managers; The answer to that isn't "let the same guy hire another one!"

It's "get rid of the idiot who caused all this."

But now the idiot's in charge of the whole sports division. If anyone ever needed to understand why companies under-perform when their senior management and board are publicly disconnected, this is the best example in history. My wife actually used them for a corporate presentation recently in the utilities sector on how to blow every basic management principle from day one. People in the room were shocked, and these aren't even people who necessarily like sports, let alone soccer.

No, until Anselmi and Cochrane (and probably Beirne as well, for not being smart and principled enough to leave already) are gone, this shit will just go on forever. Just as with Klinsmann, he'll go to outside help or whomever Earl suggests, and we'll get a general idea divorced from the final corporate decision, a corporate decision divorced from the league realities, and another five years of dissolution.

I'm serious when I say I can see this club doing a Grizzlies and moving to another market before any of this is fixed. Given the amount they're now in the hole due to capital costs and how much more valuable the franchise would be somewhere else, it seems more realistic than expecting it to get fixed.

Given that Anselmi is now MLSE President, and hence not going anywhere, I don't see the problem in hoping he will finally hire someone who isn't a complete buffoon, and then do the right thing and give that person the same kind of autonomy guys like Colangelo and Burke get.

Is it likely? History says fuck no. But there is a fool's hope. I don't even really disagree with your assessment at all, but all you can do is hope they stumble onto the right decision for once.

If they don't, then as you said, it's probably just a matter of putting the nails in the coffin.

- Scott

[T-boy]

This!.

I dont care what formation we play, but the style is very important to me. I dont like direct(hoofball) football at all .

I'd take results as my number one preference, personally. If TFC were winning every game, or top of the league, or even merely in the play offs, the style of formation wouldn't bother me at all! Too much is put on style in my opinion. I think the majority of TFC fans wouldn't care either as long as they were winning.

For sure, "ideally" I'd love to watch a nice style on the eyes as well as winning. But I've not seen too many teams do both all the time and simultaniously (other than the TOP teams in the world, which TFC are never going to be). I don't think many West Ham or Stoke fans are complaining these days about their style of play. The majority of TFC fans would be overjoyed if they were just in the hunt for the paly-offs every season, even if they were playing "hoofball".

As I say, ideally I'd like both style and substance, but realistically I know TFC are never going to be playstation football, so I'd settle for results over style.

[DoubleUp]

If a team's movement is structured to support the player on the ball, a good coach should be able to adjust things like how directly they play based on the opposition. If you're midfield's going to be dominated a direct game can even things up; it's also essential for games when you're protecting a lead or the other team is playing a very high line.

So it's all about cohesion in a formation or perhaps two formations. Generally, I think most tacticians these days would agree that the game is won on the margins, making possession extremely important as a general stat. If you're playing so directly that you're going to spend 75 minutes in your own end, you better have a pair of assassins up top, or forget about it (as this season's results demonstrated.)


Agreed!.

[jloome]

Given that Anselmi is now MLSE President, and hence not going anywhere, I don't see the problem in hoping he will finally hire someone who isn't a complete buffoon, and then do the right thing and give that person the same kind of autonomy guys like Colangelo and Burke get.

Is it likely? History says fuck no. But there is a fool's hope. I don't even really disagree with your assessment at all, but all you can do is hope they stumble onto the right decision for once.

If they don't, then as you said, it's probably just a matter of putting the nails in the coffin.

- Scott

Here's my prediction for what will happen:

- He'll hire a new prez with a decent rep.
- He'll give him carte blanche. Prez will tell him to write off the upcoming year for rebuilding
- Tom will tell him Earl is a major asset, as Earl and Paul have his back. It's all about the pack corporately, and who's on who's side.
- But he'll also tell him he's free to can Mariner if he wants; he won't tell him to do it, he'll just tell him he's free too.
- New prez will hire a new coach with interference from Earl and maybe Tom as well.
-- New Coach will flame out. New prez will need to blame someone to protect his job. New coach will be fired.
-- New coach will be hired. WIll promise to rebuild and have us in the playoffs within five years.

[Shakes McQueen]

Here's my prediction for what will happen:

- He'll hire a new prez with a decent rep.
- He'll give him carte blanche. Prez will tell him to write off the upcoming year for rebuilding
- Tom will tell him Earl is a major asset, as Earl and Paul have his back. It's all about the pack corporately, and who's on who's side.
- But he'll also tell him he's free to can Mariner if he wants; he won't tell him to do it, he'll just tell him he's free too.
- New prez will hire a new coach with interference from Earl and maybe Tom as well.
-- New Coach will flame out. New prez will need to blame someone to protect his job. New coach will be fired.
-- New coach will be hired. WIll promise to rebuild and have us in the playoffs within five years.

But after that five years, we will be in the playoffs, right?

- Scott

[DoubleUp]

I'd take results as my number one preference, personally. If TFC were winning every game, or top of the league, or even merely in the play offs, the style of formation wouldn't bother me at all! Too much is put on style in my opinion. I think the majority of TFC fans wouldn't care either as long as they were winning.

For sure, "ideally" I'd love to watch a nice style on the eyes as well as winning. But I've not seen too many teams do both all the time and simultaniously (other than the TOP teams in the world, which TFC are never going to be). I don't think many West Ham or Stoke fans are complaining these days about their style of play. The majority of TFC fans would be overjoyed if they were just in the hunt for the paly-offs every season, even if they were playing "hoofball".

As I say, ideally I'd like both style and substance, but realistically I know TFC are never going to be playstation football, so I'd settle for results over style.



Well ofcourse everyone wants results, but even in those cases I enjoy the result and dread the tactic!. But the thing is! most times than not the more clean and concise the football, the better chance you have of winning.


Ugly football will win once and awhile, but Good football is why its called the "beautiful game".

[T-boy]

Well ofcourse everyone wants results, but even in those cases I enjoy the result and dread the tactic!. But the thing is! most times than not the more clean and concise the football, the better chance you have of winning.


Ugly football will win once and awhile, but Good football is why its called the "beautiful game".

Stoke have been trying to prove you wrong for a few seasons now! :) Colorado also proved that wrong by winning the MLS cup with mind-numbingly dull football!

[Yohan]

Well ofcourse everyone wants results, but even in those cases I enjoy the result and dread the tactic!. But the thing is! most times than not the more clean and concise the football, the better chance you have of winning.


Ugly football will win once and awhile, but Good football is why its called the "beautiful game".
But... ugly football is the supporter's shield winner this season ;)

[DoubleUp]

But... ugly football is the supporter's shield winner this season ;)


Like I said once in awhile!. And to add to that, its one thing to play ugly football with talented players (chelsea UCL). Its another thing to play ugly football with a lack there of.

[Yohan]

Like I said once in awhile!. And to add to that, its one thing to play ugly football with talented players (chelsea UCL). Its another thing to play ugly football with a lack there of.

I don't think it's once in a while when a lot of good teams in MLS put up results playing 'direct' football

[DoubleUp]

none of those teams you named, hold significance in football.


If we look at MLS the teams playing good football are the ones that hold league titles.



If you look at the top 5 leagues its the teams that play good football that have the titles and trophies, not the other way around.

[DoubleUp]

I don't think it's once in a while when a lot of good teams in MLS put up results playing 'direct' football


Yohan LA and DC are the most successful teams in this league and these teams always play an attractive style of football.


Look at it this way, Good football is a Katana forged by Sengo Muramasa , and ugly football is a rusty dagger. Which is more effecient too get the kill???.

[Canary10]

I'd take results as my number one preference, personally. If TFC were winning every game, or top of the league, or even merely in the play offs, the style of formation wouldn't bother me at all! Too much is put on style in my opinion. I think the majority of TFC fans wouldn't care either as long as they were winning.

For sure, "ideally" I'd love to watch a nice style on the eyes as well as winning. But I've not seen too many teams do both all the time and simultaniously (other than the TOP teams in the world, which TFC are never going to be). I don't think many West Ham or Stoke fans are complaining these days about their style of play. The majority of TFC fans would be overjoyed if they were just in the hunt for the paly-offs every season, even if they were playing "hoofball".

As I say, ideally I'd like both style and substance, but realistically I know TFC are never going to be playstation football, so I'd settle for results over style.

West Ham doesn't play "hoofball." They're playing 4-3-3 under Big Sam (proving he's got more in his bag of tricks than people give him credit for).

I would be happy if TFC played with some speed and purpose on attack. They can even counter attack all they want, as long as they do it with speed. They're slow as molasses going forward. And move the ball on the ground through the midfield instead of the constant long ball. Do those things and I'd be happy watching them.

[Yohan]

Yohan LA and DC are the most successful teams in this league and these teams always play an attractive style of football.


Look at it this way, Good football is a Katana forged by Sengo Muramasa , and ugly football is a rusty dagger. Which is more effecient too get the kill???.
MLS is like a dirty crowded tavern fight, and you're probably better served bringing a rusty dagger than a katana ;)

No team really has its own 'style', since manager dictates what kind of football the team will play.

I'll give you that DC traditionally played more Latin flavoured football, except last 3 yrs or so when they play more 'traditional' American soccer. DC haven't won the MLS Cup since 04, and until this year, didn't make the playoffs since 07.

LA plays 'whatever works soccer'. You can argue with me all you want, but Bruce Arena traditionally play a direct, counterattacking soccer. It doesn't mean he won't allow creative passing, but he's always been an advocate of push the ball up fast and hit the opposition on the break.

Of all teams that made the MLS Cup twice or more, New England and Houston play direct football. So did SJ under Yallop when they won MLS Cup twice. Colorado won MLS Cup in 2010 playing direct football. I can't comment on Chicago and KC when they won or in MLS Cup finals since it was during early years of MLS.

I prefer passing game too, however, because of the nature of MLS, direct football will always have a place in MLS. Only in recent years have player talent and quality has gone up to the level where a lot of coaches can implement more passing game

[ag futbol]

See the issue I have with overly-pragmatic football is, you’re always living for today and tomorrow be dammed. When you lose, you are truly at the bottom and have no safety net. You can’t say you were entertained, you didn’t develop players for the future, and you didn’t create a lasting system that will give you a competitive advantage.

Really, this mentality all comes out of tightly contested leagues with promotion and relegation. Teams with limited resources and huge aversions to dropping down a flight do everything they can to avoid taking a bullet.
We play in a league where there is no relegation and can afford to look a little more long term. If we actually find the right people to build a system and take the time-effort to bring it through to fruition, it could provide us with a real competitive advantage that other teams don’t have and that can’t easily replicated.

Going into panic-mode every time things aren’t going our way isn’t going to lead us anywhere.

[boozilla]

Going into panic-mode every time things aren’t going our way isn’t going to lead us anywhere.
Agreed. But neither is Mariner.

[Yohan]

See the issue I have with overly-pragmatic football is, you’re always living for today and tomorrow be dammed. When you lose, you are truly at the bottom and have no safety net. You can’t say you were entertained, you didn’t develop players for the future, and you didn’t create a lasting system that will give you a competitive advantage.

Really, this mentality all comes out of tightly contested leagues with promotion and relegation. Teams with limited resources and huge aversions to dropping down a flight do everything they can to avoid taking a bullet.
We play in a league where there is no relegation and can afford to look a little more long term. If we actually find the right people to build a system and take the time-effort to bring it through to fruition, it could provide us with a real competitive advantage that other teams don’t have and that can’t easily replicated.

Going into panic-mode every time things aren’t going our way isn’t going to lead us anywhere.
again, I prefer passing game, but why is it that many people think passing game is by default better system than direct?

if it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. managers like Arena and Kinnear aren't dumb, yet they play direct method. why? because it works.

I don't know how many of you remember first couple of years of Goldenballs in LA, but LA really had two game plan. Give the ball to Becks who'd launch it from deep to a striker, or feed the ball to Donovan. And LA didn't have problem scoring 2-3 goals a game, except they'd let in 3-4 games so they lost that way. That offence worked. Now Arena has deeper talent pool, so he can be a little more fancy but basic game plan remains the same. I don't think anyone thinks Arena sucks. His history with LA proves his success.

Kinnear is the same. Simple direct method. Now he adds a little more flair. He has two MLS Cups, plus two final apperances. Does his system suck in MLS?

These guys are always building for the future, because in MLS, your good players will try for Europe. So these guys are always on the look out for players that fits their system. Because their system is simpler than passing game a la Winter or Kreis or Schmid, they have easier time finding guys that fit their system.

[Cashcleaner]

I wouldn't be surprised if Klinsmann did recommend a president, but MLSE decided to not get one and keep Tommy boy in charge.

I had a conversation with a fan while doing some shopping the other day and when he used the argument that Klinsmann is ultimately responsible for the failures of Winter and Mariner. But like what you were alluding to, we may never really know what Klinsmann's recommendations were. Was Winter at the top of Kilnsmann's list? Did he suggest Mariner would be a competent "Plan B"? And what did he have to say about Anselmi's place in the grand scheme of things? It's entirely possible that Klinsmann did recommend a new President but the organization disregarded his advice.

We will likely never know.

[Canary10]

I had a conversation with a fan while doing some shopping the other day and when he used the argument that Klinsmann is ultimately responsible for the failures of Winter and Mariner. But like what you were alluding to, we may never really know what Klinsmann's recommendations were. Was Winter at the top of Kilnsmann's list? Did he suggest Mariner would be a competent "Plan B"? And what did he have to say about Anselmi's place in the grand scheme of things? It's entirely possible that Klinsmann did recommend a new President but the organization disregarded his advice.

We will likely never know.

I think the basic idea of pairing Winter with someone with knowledge of MLS wasn't a bad idea. Problem was, the pairing wasn't of Winter's choosing, and the guy they got to pair with him is an egomaniac who doesn't play well in the sandbox and was after a coaching job. If Winter was more astute, he should have brought in an assistant coach with MLS experience who he trusted and could temper his thinking a bit for the MLS context.

[Initial B]

If anyone ever needed to understand why companies under-perform when their senior management and board are publicly disconnected, this is the best example in history. My wife actually used them for a corporate presentation recently in the utilities sector on how to blow every basic management principle from day one. People in the room were shocked, and these aren't even people who necessarily like sports, let alone soccer.
Is there any chance we could see this presentation? It sounds interesting. Maybe you should send it to the MLSE Board Members as well. ^_^

[ensco]

Is there any chance we could see this presentation? It sounds interesting. Maybe you should send it to the MLSE Board Members as well. ^_^

Just read Dilbert. It's all there.

[Suds]

Just read Dilbert. It's all there.

Haha. FFS!!! This will be the quote of the day for sure!

Bag this one for a future TIFO idea.

[Derko]

I'd take results as my number one preference, personally. If TFC were winning every game, or top of the league, or even merely in the play offs, the style of formation wouldn't bother me at all! Too much is put on style in my opinion. I think the majority of TFC fans wouldn't care either as long as they were winning.

For sure, "ideally" I'd love to watch a nice style on the eyes as well as winning. But I've not seen too many teams do both all the time and simultaniously (other than the TOP teams in the world, which TFC are never going to be). I don't think many West Ham or Stoke fans are complaining these days about their style of play. The majority of TFC fans would be overjoyed if they were just in the hunt for the paly-offs every season, even if they were playing "hoofball".

As I say, ideally I'd like both style and substance, but realistically I know TFC are never going to be playstation football, so I'd settle for results over style.

Very good statement, I totally agree, and a majority out there will have to be honest with themselves and the rest, that if the results are there than style or formation would mean squat until TFC became consistent, mho!!

[PAOK17]

I don't think I have ever actually focussed on formation until the last couple of years since Winter came in. Whenever following teams I support, I'd hate the long ball not because I saw it as ugly (which it is!) but because it was an indicator to me that my team doesn't have the skilled players to do anything else. I would get frustrated because my team couldn't string two passes together, not because of the formation they were playing. If you build a team of skilled players, the formation can be damned. No formation in the world will correct for lack of skill. Even defensive tactics require skillful DM's and quick thinking attackers for good counter attacks, not to mention a solid back line.

[v00d00daddy]

Very good statement, I totally agree, and a majority out there will have to be honest with themselves and the rest, that if the results are there than style or formation would mean squat until TFC became consistent, mho!!


Yes. But people are talking about LA or Colorado playing "direct" football. Which may be true but I don't think any team in MLS has played, or is currently playing the brand of hoofball that Mariner employed, with any kind of success.

I'm no MLS expert but I've watched a fair share of games over the years and I've never seen a team invite pressure from minute 1, and concede possession so easily as TFC did this year under Mariner.

Direct, effective football is very different than the horseshit that Mariner was forcing TFC to play.

Anyways...this is a President thread so I'll say this.

A new TFC president will change nothing unless:

a) he is a good footballing mind

and

b) he is given the power to clean house however he sees fit.

And I think that even if a) happens...b) will never happen.

So its pointless.

[Yohan]

Yes. But people are talking about LA or Colorado playing "direct" football. Which may be true but I don't think any team in MLS has played, or is currently playing the brand of hoofball that Mariner employed, with any kind of success.

I'm no MLS expert but I've watched a fair share of games over the years and I've never seen a team invite pressure from minute 1, and concede possession so easily as TFC did this year under Mariner.

Direct, effective football is very different than the horseshit that Mariner was forcing TFC to play.


This. Mariner out

[Ultra & Proud]

I don't think any team in MLS has played, or is currently playing the brand of hoofball that Mariner employed, with any kind of success.

The Quakes' system is pretty damn close if you watched them enough. Only major difference is they had better players available than we did, especially up top.

[T-boy]

This. Mariner out

does ANYBODY feel, at all, that if Mariner had "his players", and no injury problems, that he could play attractive and winning football? Anyone?

[Ultra & Proud]

Not defending Mariner or his tactics but with the squad we were running out from July onward, when honestly looking at the quality of the individual players (including guys like Avila who sat), there wasn't much to be coming from any system they may have chosen to adopt. That being said I would still have liked Mariner to used this oft mentioned but never seen attacking system he has been promising since the summer. I know he said he couldn't put it in place until he had better players at his disposal but really what's the worst thing that would have happened if he did with our summer-fall 2012 squad? What, a losing streak?

I've said it since summer that this squad was shite and it'll be proven when we see where all the cut and soon to be cut players end up. Most I bet will not be in MLS or in any other equal or higher league. Lots will be in NASL/USL or at a check out counter at a Loblaws near you.

[Ultra & Proud]

does ANYBODY feel, at all, that if Mariner had "his players", and no injury problems, that he could play attractive and winning football? Anyone?
We'll see I guess. At least come spring he can't have any excuses. Produce or be gone. Simple.

And f*ck 'attractive' Football . I just want competent winning Football. SKC plays ugly bastard dump and chase Football and they won the East. SJ plays pure hoofball and they won the Supporters Shield. Both far from what most people would consider 'attractive' and I for one could live with that as long as we won something.

[Canary10]

This is in response to T-Boy in a closed thread, who asked whether anyone could let a 9 game losing streak go:

If we don't have a single point in 5 games he should be gone, no question. This is really unlikely though. So, knowing it'll probably be in shades of grey, the question is where is the line. That's tricky.

I'll put something else on the table. I don't think this decision should fall on record alone. There is a massive distrust between fans and PM. He needs to start repairing that. I'd be judging him on whether he's making any moves between now and then to patch it up with fans. I'd be looking at how he plays in the sandbox (and especially how he's working with the new pres). At this point he's a one man show. I'd also be looking at how he's implementing our vision. If he's not moving away from the tactics he employed last year to something more positive, I'd be taking that into consideration as well.

[v00d00daddy]

does ANYBODY feel, at all, that if Mariner had "his players", and no injury problems, that he could play attractive and winning football? Anyone?

I don't.

I don't think his brand of attractive football falls in line with mine.

I wouldn't let 8 year olds play the style that Mariner had TFC playing this year. I don't care if they lose 20-0 every game. Playing the way TFC played under Mariner is an insult to what soccer is supposed to be. His style of play is exactly why Canada, as a country, is so bad at the game. Too many people with his "pragmatic" view on the game.

Frankly...I don't care about Paul Mariners "players". I have not renewed and I will gladly pay the face value price of a ticket behind the TFC bench next year just to heckle him:

-if he continues to favour gargbage players over talented ones.
-continues to bring in overpriced/underskilled players (O'Dea, Eckersley)
-and continues to play kick and run soccer.

The promotion of Paul Mariner and his style of football has directly led to me not renewing. Scrapping the plan of building a team focussed on skill and technical ability in favour of a guy that couldn't do it even if he wanted to was the last straw and TFC have lost a "day one" SSH.

So no...I don't think he could do anything with "his players" LOL

[jloome]

We'll see I guess. At least come spring he can't have any excuses. Produce or be gone. Simple.

And f*ck 'attractive' Football . I just want competent winning Football. SKC plays ugly bastard dump and chase Football and they won the East. SJ plays pure hoofball and they won the Supporters Shield. Both far from what most people would consider 'attractive' and I for one could live with that as long as we won something.

If you're winning regularly, you're playing attractive football. You can't win regularly just playing dump and chase, so it's a moot point. Nobody wins "ugly" all the time.

As for Mariner, he doesn't have any excuses NOW. He built this roster. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

[Macksam]

We'll see I guess. At least come spring he can't have any excuses. Produce or be gone. Simple.

And f*ck 'attractive' Football . I just want competent winning Football. SKC plays ugly bastard dump and chase Football and they won the East. SJ plays pure hoofball and they won the Supporters Shield. Both far from what most people would consider 'attractive' and I for one could live with that as long as we won something.

No, they actually don't. Did you watch the east semi final against Houston, leg 2?

[OgtheDim]

Kevin Payne http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/former-dc-united-president-kevin-payne-reportedly-headed-to-toronto-fc/article5727541 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/former-dc-united-president-kevin-payne-reportedly-headed-to-toronto-fc/article5727541/)

[mcolvy]

Kevin Payne http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/former-dc-united-president-kevin-payne-reportedly-headed-to-toronto-fc/article5727541 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/former-dc-united-president-kevin-payne-reportedly-headed-to-toronto-fc/article5727541/)


Well I don't know how much time he is still willing to put into it or how involved he will get into the team, but at least we get a guy who knows the league and has friends in the right places. TFC picking off guys high up in the US soccer organizations...

[Belfast_Boy]

Toronto FC plans to make ‘bold moves’ to improve team: MLS commissionerhttp://www.gravatar.com/avatar/3b4b4027b86b17a99d4f891e09e22130?s=60&d=mm (http://sports.nationalpost.com/author/canadianpressnp/)Neil Davidson, Canadian Press (http://sports.nationalpost.com/author/canadianpressnp/) | Nov 26, 2012 5:54 PM ET | Last Updated: Nov 26, 2012 7:59 PM ET
More from Canadian Press (http://sports.nationalpost.com/author/canadianpressnp/)

http://nationalpostsports.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/silvafall.jpg?w=620Kyle Rivas/Getty ImagesToronto FC averaged 18,155 fans a game this season to rank 10th in the 19-team league. MLSE recently announced it was rolling back prices for existing season ticket-holders to 2007 levels.






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TORONTO — The commissioner of Major League Soccer says Toronto FC is looking to make some “bold moves” to improve the product on the field.
Toronto (5-21-8) missed the playoffs for the sixth straight year since joining the league in 2007. And the struggling club posted franchise worsts for wins (five), losses (21), points (23), goals against (62) and winless string (14).
Commissioner Don Garber said he has faith in the new ownership structure of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment as well as president Tom Anselmi.
“I believe that they will be looking to make some bold moves to try to address to try to address their lack of success on the field,” he said Monday during his annual media state of the league conference call.
Related

The good, bad and ugly of Toronto FC’s messy season (http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/10/30/the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-toronto-fcs-messy-season/)
Loss to Crew brings Toronto FC’s dismal season to a close (http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/10/28/loss-to-crew-brings-toronto-fcs-dismal-season-to-a-close/)


“It certainly pains us a bit. We look back at what was such an incredible story in ’07, that clearly was one of the launching pads for the development of what we call MLS 2.0. And to see that not continue to the level it was in the early years is disappointing.”
Garber did not detail the planned moves but suggested they might be imminent.
“I’ve been a party to some of the changes that they’re going to make, that they hopefully will be able to announce shortly that we are hopeful will get them back on track.”
The commissioner said almost the same thing when asked about Toronto during last year’s call.

We’re proud of our three clubs in Canada and we’re really pleased with the success north of the border
While he did not mention any bold moves, he said he believed the team was on track under then manager Aron Winter.
“Well I certainly hope so,” Garber told the media conference call last November. “And I have faith in MLSE [Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment] and believe that they’ll figure this thing out.
“They’re smart guys, they’re passionate about sport and very very committed to soccer and TFC.”
MLSE and Winter parted ways 10 games into the 2012 season after the team went 1-9 and opened with nine straight league losses.
TFC averaged 18,155 fans a game this season to rank 10th in the 19-team league. MLSE recently announced it was rolling back prices for existing season ticket-holders to 2007 levels.
http://nationalpostsports.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/tfc.jpg?w=620&h=465Chris Young/The Canadian PressToronto FC fans are none too happy with the team.



Average league attendance is 18,807.
Garber was more positive about Montreal (12-16-8), calling the expansion Impact “an instant success.”
“This is a very passionate soccer-loving province up there in Quebec,” he said.
“This has been a great expansion move for us,” he added. “We’re proud of our three clubs in Canada and we’re really pleased with the success north of the border.”
In 2012, the Vancouver Whitecaps (11-13-10) became the first Canadian team to make the playoffs.
The Whitecaps averaged 19,475 fans a game, compared to 22,772 for Montreal whose numbers were boosted by spending time at Olympic Stadium before Saputo Stadium was ready.
Garber also said the league is at “the finish line” in negotiations with New York City to acquire land to build a stadium in Queens that would become home for the league’s 20th team.
Garber says after that deal is agreed to, there would have to be negotiations with the city and state as part of the approval process to build on the 10-acre site in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park. The parkland used for the stadium would have to be replaced, and a deal would have to be reached with the New York Mets to use their parking lots adjacent to Citi Field.
Garber says the new team could start play for the 2016 season. He also says the New York market is the only one David Beckham doesn’t have the right to buy into and the New York Red Bulls, who play in Harrison, N.J., don’t have the right to block a second team in the New York area.
With files from The Associated Press