O'Dea Wades Into It

[ensco]

In tomorrow's fish wrap, looks like it's mostly previewed on twitter ....

Darren O'Dea isn't happy with how MLSE is portrayed at times... "I can see what's happening inside and outside the club and I think the negativity is far too much"....Negativity in the press annoys me. Have every right, but the the team should take flack. Press writes about the way the club is run. Put my neck on the line in saying this and don't really care now. The manager and the staff are going out to get the right players....The way we're treated and the way everything is done is spot on. It's down to getting the right players in -- simple....The way we're treated and the way everything is done is spot on. It's down to getting the right players in -- simple....... I can't see how next year with the right players how with six gms to go in the season we won't be at worst (in the playoff hunt)....The manager has asked me about certain players. The type of players we're talking about are very exciting.

I have no idea why O'Dea would want to disclose/discuss that he is having conversations about new signings (although this obviously happens all the time, it's fraught with locker room peril, so most players don't talk about it).

Not a bad scoop for Larson, whatever you may think of him.

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN

[London]

so darren,

what have the stooges shown you that the rest of the world hasn't seen??

[Richard]

so darren,

what have the stooges shown you that the rest of the world hasn't seen??


A nice paycheck and a new lease on life in another continent, his value has dropped significantly in the UK thus also making him unatractive for other clubs in many EU countries.


I dont know, time will tell and we shall see who is right in the end.

[Shakes McQueen]

Entirely possible he's simply had a different experience from some of the other players.

- Scott

[[NBF]]

Here's my take on this:

-----------------Mariner----------------
-------------------||-------------------
---------Kerr====O'Dea====Eckersley---
-------------------||-------------------
-------------FreeRaptorTickets----------

What are his choices really?

[jloome]

In tomorrow's fish wrap, looks like it's mostly previewed on twitter ....

Darren O'Dea isn't happy with how MLSE is portrayed at times... "I can see what's happening inside and outside the club and I think the negativity is far too much"....Negativity in the press annoys me. Have every right, but the the team should take flack. Press writes about the way the club is run. Put my neck on the line in saying this and don't really care now. The manager and the staff are going out to get the right players....The way we're treated and the way everything is done is spot on. It's down to getting the right players in -- simple....The way we're treated and the way everything is done is spot on. It's down to getting the right players in -- simple....... I can't see how next year with the right players how with six gms to go in the season we won't be at worst (in the playoff hunt)....The manager has asked me about certain players. The type of players we're talking about are very exciting.

I have no idea why O'Dea would want to disclose/discuss that he is having conversations about new signings (although this obviously happens all the time, it's fraught with locker room peril, so most players don't talk about it).

Not a bad scoop for Larson, whatever you may think of him.

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN




LOL, this is all pretty transparent. There's an Earl story on the site about how they're going about rebuilding, there's a Hassli piece on how he loves Mariner, which came right after an Eckersley story about how he loves Mariner, which came right after a Danny K story on how he loves Mariner....

Look, he's a player's coach and I don't put it past these guys to be playing good cop, bad cop on the high-earners, who have the most to lose.

Here's another thought: perhaps they are competent. Perhaps what we saw last year wasn't a result of their football competence as coaches and a manager, but as the crew who foisted a load of shit onto the guy they wanted to get rid of.

So we have a three optiosn: 1. These players can see quality in Mariner that just hasn't show up in results yet. That's the most optimistic. 2. They're protecting their own asses because they think the guy who brought them in might be about to be canned, particularly with anselmi guaranteeing a new head for the club (thus O'dea's GM comment); 3. They're right about Mariner and Cochrane, but so are people who think the two of them behaved like politicians instead of in the club's best interests (or perhaps even in it.)

Now, I'd like to think it's option 1. But the club's history of personnel selection for these roles suggests to me it's more likely option 2 or 3.

Either way, the sequence of story releases suggests a hardcore internal campaign to get people to accept Mariner.

[prizby]

wonder if larson writes it if o'dea says something different

[Shakes McQueen]

Either way, the sequence of story releases suggests a hardcore internal campaign to get people to accept Mariner.

Or it simply means O'Dea is having a different experience from other players, sees the insane amount of (completely earned from our perspective) negativity swirling around the team like a vortex, and doesn't get what the fuss is all about.

He's very well paid, hasn't had any acrimonious dealing regarding a raise or contract renewal yet, hasn't had to fight for minutes, wasn't here for any previous years of this circus, and wasn't even here for the Aron Winter section of 2012.

Taking all of that into account, I think it's entirely plausible that he simply thinks people are coming down on Mariner too quickly, and is still buying into whatever they are trying to sell the players privately. For now, I'm just going to take his comments at face value - it's not like they change anything.

Unlike him, we've been around this mess for seven years, and we are acquainted with this team's modus operandi. He's entitled to buy into whatever Mariner is selling, just like the vast majority of everyone else are entitled to shake their heads at it.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Frankly, Mariner should be embarrassed (and find it telling), that he only has one player on this team willing to vocally go to bat for him.

- Scott

[v00d00daddy]

Frankly, Mariner should be embarrassed (and find it telling), that he only has one player on this team willing to vocally go to bat for him.

- Scott

Yup, and it's no coincidence that it's the player that Mariner brought in on the highest wage since he became head coach.

I'm also worried about Mariner running the types of players he's been looking at by O'Dea.

I'm not sure I want Mariner looking at O'Dea for a second opinion on players when he has guys like Frings and Koevermans (both have way more experience and technical ability) at his disposal.

Oh wait....maybe he can't go to them for advice. LOL

[jloome]

Frankly, Mariner should be embarrassed (and find it telling), that he only has one player on this team willing to vocally go to bat for him.

- Scott

He doesn't. That's my point. The last five stories from the team on mlssoccer.com and the team site have all been player profiles careful to mention their support for Mariner.

You think that's a coincidence? Sure.

[prizby]

Yup, and it's no coincidence that it's the player that Mariner brought in on the highest wage since he became head coach.

I'm also worried about Mariner running the types of players he's been looking at by O'Dea.

I'm not sure I want Mariner looking at O'Dea for a second opinion on players when he has guys like Frings and Koevermans (both have way more experience and technical ability) at his disposal.

Oh wait....maybe he can't go to them for advice. LOL

i'll bet mariner runs it by several players

[Pookie]

Speaking of having confidence in the coach:

Richard Eckersley - July 29, 2011
“I love it here in Toronto. I love everything about it: the club, the staff and the fans. I love playing for Aron because he lets us go and expresses ourselves on the field, which is massively important for a footballer. I enjoy it here.”


Ryan Johnson - April 24, 2012
“I believe in Aron. I have confidence in him,” Johnson said. “For me and the players, we still believe in him. I'm going to continue to fight for him.’

Terry Dunfield - April 24, 2012
“There’s no lack of confidence (in Winter) whatsoever. The players are 100 per cent behind his approach and want he wants.”

[TOBOR !]

Did somebody say 'Larson' ?

[Auzzy]

Awesome quotes Pookie! We've heard great things said at one point about every coach/manager we've ever had at TFC. We shall see.

[ensco]

I feel that O'Dea deciding that he knows better than we do how MLSE treats people, and telling the world (including his colleagues) that he is a big confidant of the manager's re player acquisition .... both these things diminish O'Dea for me.

[ensco]

Interesting to see that the story is now out - without O'Dea's quotes about being consulted on player acquisitions

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/17/reds-odea-blame-the-players

I will bet anyone dollars to donuts that someone saw the conversation about that here yesterday and called Larson to pull those quotes.

[Shakes McQueen]

You think that's a coincidence? Sure.

I think it's the default position of most professional athletes to offer generic support for the coaching staff when asked by the press.

- Scott

[prizby]

No offence to Darren, but he's been here for 3 months...we the fans have been here for 6 going on 7 years...a look at the clubs history would explain a lot to Darren, especially if he looks at the upper management and notices that hasn't really changed (Earl & Tom) since day 1, just like the results

[Yohan]

No offence to Darren, but he's been here for 3 months...we the fans have been here for 6 going on 7 years...a look at the clubs history would explain a lot to Darren, especially if he looks at the upper management and notices that hasn't really changed (Earl & Tom) since day 1, just like the results

to play the devil's advocate, we, the fans, never get the whole picture of what goes on inside MLSE/TFC FO. and often what we get is filtered through someone else's perception. example, I was somewhat surprised at Adrian Cann saying how much support he received from TFC on his rehab and such, something we really didn't know about

[jloome]

Interesting to see that the story is now out - without O'Dea's quotes about being consulted on player acquisitions

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/17/reds-odea-blame-the-players

I will bet anyone dollars to donuts that someone saw the conversation about that here yesterday and called Larson to pull those quotes.

From a communications and PR management standpoint, this club is like watching two senior citizens try to bail out the Titanic with a sand pail.

[jloome]

I think it's the default position of most professional athletes to offer generic support for the coaching staff when asked by the press.

- Scott

So do I Scott, because obviously it is. But go back over the site and MLS stories from the last two weeks; every player mentions it, and the writers are all MLSE staffers. No, I've been assigning stories and handling them for 24 hours, and this is a concerted effort to try to win some public support.

[narduch]

I've lost all respect for O'Dea after reading that article. Of course the message had to come out in an article written by one of the clubs main mouthpieces, Kurt Larson.

The article is so bad. How stupid does O'Dea and the club in general think the fans are?

This quote kills me: “The negativity coming out in the press annoys me,” he clarified. “The press has every right when you’ve got the results we have, but the team should take the flack. The press seems to only write about the way the club is run.” What negativity in the press? Most of the press can't help trip over themselves to promote Mariner as the solution for this teams problems. All the negativity about this team is on message boards and comments on news articles. The actual writers covering this team are flacid in their criticisms.

I'd like to see a player join Manchester United, and after 3 months tell the media "those Glazers are great, I don't understand why all the fans hate them". You know it would never happen.

[jloome]

to play the devil's advocate, we, the fans, never get the whole picture of what goes on inside MLSE/TFC FO. and often what we get is filtered through someone else's perception. example, I was somewhat surprised at Adrian Cann saying how much support he received from TFC on his rehab and such, something we really didn't know about

These people might all be very sincere; it doesn't change his past performance or the likelihood of him improving it in the future. I don't think we need to go through the litany of strange and occasionally just dumb management decisions this guy has made. Plus, he doesn't recognize talent levels.

[narduch]

No offence to Darren, but he's been here for 3 months...we the fans have been here for 6 going on 7 years...a look at the clubs history would explain a lot to Darren, especially if he looks at the upper management and notices that hasn't really changed (Earl & Tom) since day 1, just like the results

But just to add to that, fans in this city have seen how MLSE have run the Raptors and Leafs for an even longer period.

O'Dea is totally off-base in his comments.

[Richard]

But just to add to that, fans in this city have seen how MLSE have run the Raptors and Leafs for an even longer period.

O'Dea is totally off-base in his comments.

Not really. I mean i think he has been treated very well by managment.

He hasnt had time to see the disaster of what TFC is. Although it can be said he has put some rose coloured glass on and thinks its only the players fault. Winless in 14+ games should give him a clue its just not the players but the tactics employed.

[Beach_Red]

Entirely possible he's simply had a different experience from some of the other players.

- Scott

Well, yes, and that's the real problem here. TFC has always had a divided locker room, full of cliques and us and them groups (as most groups of people working together do, of course, which is why good management is important).

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

This is just another marketing piece for the front office. O'dea should shut the f up. He is on a freaking press honeymoon here compared to his days in Glasgow and he effing knows it. I'm so tired of the biased reporting around TFC.

If you buy all of this shit reporting going on you have already renewed your season tickets and have booked time off for the 2013 playoffs.

[Masked Man]

Speaking of having confidence in the coach:

Richard Eckersley - July 29, 2011
“I love it here in Toronto. I love everything about it: the club, the staff and the fans. I love playing for Aron because he lets us go and expresses ourselves on the field, which is massively important for a footballer. I enjoy it here.”


Ryan Johnson - April 24, 2012
“I believe in Aron. I have confidence in him,” Johnson said. “For me and the players, we still believe in him. I'm going to continue to fight for him.’

Terry Dunfield - April 24, 2012
“There’s no lack of confidence (in Winter) whatsoever. The players are 100 per cent behind his approach and want he wants.”

To be fair to O`Dea, I think this scenario is different then the typical "I believe in our coach" speak that you get from players in the media.

He is entitled to his opinion even though I believe that he is wrong. MLSE in general deserves all the criticism they get. You can certainly argue that they deserve far more than they get because at the end of the day, they have been complete garbage owners.

[T-boy]

I feel that O'Dea deciding that he knows better than we do how MLSE treats people, and telling the world (including his colleagues) that he is a big confidant of the manager's re player acquisition .... both these things diminish O'Dea for me.

but what exactly else do we expect? Do we think that Darren would push Mariner under the bus or say he has no confidence? He's just doing what he ought to as an experienced player - big up the management and confidence in him. I don't see anything wrong with that. Good for him for making a public statement.

[ensco]

but what exactly else do we expect? Do we think that Darren would push Mariner under the bus or say he has no confidence? He's just doing what he ought to as an experienced player - big up the management and confidence in him. I don't see anything wrong with that. Good for him for making a public statement.

But that's not what he said!

Here's what O'Dea could say, if he wanted to say what you think he said: "I can't speak for anyone else, but I think Mariner is great and I really enjoy him as a manager." "I don't know why MLSE gets criticized, I have seen them be nothing but first class to me"

Here's what he actually said: "The problem here is negativity" (ensco translation - the media are assholes). "I know we're getting better players, Mariner is consulting with me on that" (ensco translation - I am special and my teammates are crap)

[ag futbol]

Yeah let's see, he gets paid 200k more than guys like Colin and Bernadez who have twice the impact.

Spot on Darren, spot on.

[TFC07]

O'Dea is already making enemies? lol I can't wait to cut overrated O'Dea and his crazy contract end of 2013 season.

[narduch]

Yeah let's see, he gets paid 200k more than guys like Colin and Bernadez who have twice the impact.

Spot on Darren, spot on.

My guess is once Mariner + Cochrane are out, O'Dea and Eckersley will be two of the first players out as well.

[T-boy]

But that's not what he said!

Here's what O'Dea could say, if he wanted to say what you think he said: "I can't speak for anyone else, but I think Mariner is great and I really enjoy him as a manager." "I don't know why MLSE gets criticized, I have seen them be nothing but first class to me"

Here's what he actually said: "The problem here is negativity" (ensco translation - the media are assholes). "I know we're getting better players, Mariner is consulting with me on that" (ensco translation - I am special and my teammates are crap)

It's funny how I don't read it that same way at all! I would expect Mariner to possibly run CB names past O'Dea. The way I see management is a two way thing - you can always learn from your employees as well as teach them. A BAD manager thinks they are better and preach downwards. I'm no longer a Mariner fan, but its fine if he wants to consult his senior players on certain positions, nothing wrong with that. For me, that's good management, not bad. And I would thoroughly expect O'Dea to back his manager while he's playing for the club.

Also, this is a "twitter interview", so really the translation is horrible coming from 140 characters!

[ensco]

^ Fair enough. My comment isn't about Mariner though. I don't like how O'Dea handled this, but it's not a hanging offence.

[narduch]

Also, this is a "twitter interview", so really the translation is horrible coming from 140 characters!

It wasn't a 'twitter' interview though. It was a real interview. Larson was just teasing it a day before, on his twitter account.

[T-boy]

^ Fair enough. My comment isn't about Mariner though. I don't like how O'Dea handled this, but it's not a hanging offence.

I think more than what O'Dae is saying is that really its a very poor article and interview. We don't know what Larsson is supposedly meant to have asked O'Dea to spark the reaction he did. The quotes, for me, could be very out of context. O'Dea clearly isn't just wading in on 'whether the club deserved criticism or not' - he's answering a question that has been speicifically pointed in a direction. But we don't know what that is! If Larsson is quoting an interview, at least write what the question is, don't just make it look O'Dea is angrily striking out at people for no/unjustified reasons!

[T-boy]

It wasn't a 'twitter' interview though. It was a real interview. Larson was just teasing it a day before, on his twitter account.

As above - I've read the Sun article, and think its poor. No questions, just a bunch of quotes that could come out of any context that we are unaware of. It's LIKE Twitter where you can read somebody's 140 characters and its always out of context unless you have the whole conversation.

[nimamalek]

Love Larson probably my favourite TFC writer

[jloome]

But that's not what he said!

Here's what O'Dea could say, if he wanted to say what you think he said: "I can't speak for anyone else, but I think Mariner is great and I really enjoy him as a manager." "I don't know why MLSE gets criticized, I have seen them be nothing but first class to me"

Here's what he actually said: "The problem here is negativity" (ensco translation - the media are assholes). "I know we're getting better players, Mariner is consulting with me on that" (ensco translation - I am special and my teammates are crap)

Everything O'Dea says gets picked up in the Irish press, so when you think about it, his comments were probably for the benefit of the players Mariner is trying to sign, in case they get nervous about the atmosphere here. Like scouting Scandinavia in the wake of Wilhelmsson, Johansson and a few others signing with more successful clubs, it has Earl all over it.