TFC cut Cann, Harden, others

[DangerRed]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/11/option-declined-six-players

Option Declined On Six PlayersAdrian Cann among those Toronto FC released on Thursday.

Toronto FC announced Thursday that the club has declined options on six players: defenders Adrian Cann, Ty Harden, and Dicoy Williams, midfielder Oscar Cordon, and forwards Nicholas Lindsay and Keith Makubuya.
Cann, 32, made 65 appearances in all competitions during his three seasons with Toronto FC. He signed with the club on April 12, 2010 as a free agent after leaving Esbjerg FB of Denmark. Cann was originally selected 16th overall in the 2004 MLS SuperDraft by the Colorado Rapids. He has also earned nine international caps for Canada.
Harden, 28, made 58 appearances in all competitions during his three seasons with the club. He was acquired through a trade with the Colorado Rapids on February 9, 2010. Harden was originally drafted in 2007 by the L.A. Galaxy.
Williams, 26, made 13 appearances in all competitions during two seasons. He originally signed with the club on March 31, 2011. Williams suffered a season ending injury while playing for Jamaica in the 2011 CONCACAF Gold Cup.
Lindsay, 20, signed with the First Team on September 15, 2010 as the second Academy graduate in club history. Lindsay made six appearances in all competitions during his first season with the club. He missed the entire 2011 season due to injury. This season Lindsday returned as an 88th minute substitute on October 24 at Santos Laguna during the CONCACAF Champions League group stage.
Cordon, 19 and Makubuya, 19, both signed with the First Team on March 17, 2011 after graduating from the Academy. Cordon made six appearances in all competitions for the club in two seasons. Makubuya made two substitute appearances over two seasons.

[Stress]

Not one surprise there. Although, I do feel for the guys and hope they rebound and find something positive for the future.

[maninb]

Lindsay would have been worth keeping imo....

[olo114]

I wish they at least kept Lindsay, another reason if i was playing for the Academy i would never sign a pro contract with the team.

[Yohan]

I wish they at least kept Lindsay, another reason if i was playing for the Academy i would never sign a pro contract with the team.

seems a big question over Lindsay's fitness after being out two years.

interesting that there is nothing about Avila or Hall, because I think their contracts are expired. so either TFC picked up their option year, or they are going to Re Entry Draft in Dec

[gracos]

the reentry draft is getting closer, I wonder if anyone is going to pick up our academy projects and use them (MTL or VAN??)

[Relja]

I wish we kept Lindsay. I have heard good things about him, but the injury killed his TFC time.

[Red CB Toronto]

Sorry to see Adrian on the move. Had great respect for the effort and drive he had to return to the pitch. Loved how candid he was with what was on his mind. Will always cherish the game jersey he gave me at the final game of this past season.

Not really surprised by any of the other moves, guess Lindsay just could not make a full return.

[olo114]

seems a big question over Lindsay's fitness after being out two years.

interesting that there is nothing about Avila or Hall, because I think their contracts are expired. so either TFC picked up their option year, or they are going to Re Entry Draft in Dec

I just think that a lot of the Academy players that got cut today never got a fair shot a playing this season and so where the easiest to the cut, Mariner and his squad selection was terrible since August. The can bet you there going to sign a couple of academy kids before the start of next season because they need to fill in the roster.

[narduch]

Not one surprise there. Although, I do feel for the guys and hope they rebound and find something positive for the future.

Agreed. No real surprises for me too.

I'm surprised that Stinson wasn't inclduded though.

For Hall and Avila I will assume they are going through waivers or re-entry or whatever it is MLS is doing these days to players with that much league experience.

[gracos]

On Twitter
Oscar Cordon ‏@OscarCordon16 (https://twitter.com/OscarCordon16) Thank God !

It looks like he wanted out of TFC, he didnt believe in the cause so I am not upset to see him go

[cmonyoureds]

With just a couple small tweaks........

Seeing a shortened/non existant bench this year many times, dear god I hope they have some players to sign from places other than bermuda.

[cmonyoureds]

On Twitter
Oscar Cordon ‏@OscarCordon16 (https://twitter.com/OscarCordon16)Thank God !

It looks like he wanted out of TFC, he didnt believe in the cause so I am not upset to see him go




This troubles me. Came through the academy, given a shot a the first team, proven nothing and no guarantee to go anywhere............yet throws a "thank god to be escaping" out there? Not a good exit interview!!!!!

[dupont]

I just looked at his twitter and he also wrote "thank god" on Oct 31. Maybe he just likes to say that a lot! haha

[[NBF]]

On Twitter
Oscar Cordon ‏@OscarCordon16 (https://twitter.com/OscarCordon16) Thank God !

It looks like he wanted out of TFC, he didnt believe in the cause so I am not upset to see him go

Most of the players quit on the team. There's no surprise there. How can you be positive and encouraged when a head coach talks down to everyone on the team and expects different results. Paul Mariner has been figured out by the players and he has only support from the players who would normally find themselves on the fringes.

Im willing to bet that the team wont be able to resign a few guys that are worth keeping even for depth like Hall and Avila.

Gracos: No need to shit the bed for a young kid eager to get playing time. I just hope his time with TFC didnt hurt his chances elsewhere.



I wish they at least kept Lindsay, another reason if i was playing for the Academy i would never sign a pro contract with the team.


There's really no incentive.

[ag futbol]

^ Yikes, that's not the picture we want to paint for potential future academy signings.

Shame about Lindsay, but after all those knee surgeries at such a young age it looks like a once promising career is finished. Damn that snowmobile.

Looks like Stinson has held on. Heard he was more highly rated but haven't seen much to see why...

[olo114]

I think i would feel the same way if they would rather play with a shortened bench then dress me, Somehow when the team was traveling on the road and did not have a full bench it almost felt like cost saving measure then not having players to dress. I believe there was a level of alienation from the team towards players that where not coming back and so we saw a shortened bench being used towards the end of the season

[brad]

Lindsay would have been worth keeping imo....

Really have to wonder what two years out with a knee injury at his age have done to him though.

[flamehawk]

I can see why Cann was cut, but I am disappointed. He was always one of my favourite players and I thought he was fucked over with the contract situation.

I also don't think Lindsay and Cordon should've been cut. And with Cordon's twitter comment, it looks to me like a worrying sign for our youth development. Would any of the talent youth in the city want to take the route to professionalism through our academy? I have my doubts.

[brad]

seems a big question over Lindsay's fitness after being out two years.

interesting that there is nothing about Avila or Hall, because I think their contracts are expired. so either TFC picked up their option year, or they are going to Re Entry Draft in Dec

I think Avila has trade value. I suspect that is why they have kept him.

[olo114]

I can not wait for the town halls, when these pointed questions will be asked and i really will wonder how Mariner will react.

[brad]

I can not wait for the town halls, when these pointed questions will be asked and i really will wonder how Mariner will react.

Why did you play a number of games with a short bench rather than dressing some of the academy kids - even if only to give them a taste of first team experience?

That would be a good question for him.

Any directed questions about why he released Cordon or Lindsay are too easy to evade with "not good enough", "didn't progress as expected", ect ect.

[ArmenJBX]

Gutted about Adrian Cann. He was a class act, on and off the pitch.

[prizby]

so mariner declines the options on players that were mostly making under 100k, but hasn't declined options on weideman, avila, and hall who make a combined $430k. two of those 3 must go

[Yohan]

Wiedeman hasn't 'officially' graduated Generation Adidas status. More cuts could be pending, and this is just the first wave (see what I did there?)

[Shway]

The one players name that I wish I saw was JEREMY FREAKING SHIT ASS HALL ample amount of opportunities to prove himself worthy of the minutes he was receiving and not once did I ever see a bright spot in his game.

#MARINER#COCHRANE#OUT!!!

[Ajax TFC]

I can not wait for the town halls, when these pointed questions will be asked and i really will wonder how Mariner will react.
He'll tell everyone that he's a genius and has forgot more about team building than we will ever know, and that everyone should just shut the fuck up and fall into line.

In all seriousness, I have a feeling that his response wouldn't be as political as people would expect. See the Plata situation. He could have been political and said that he's been sent out to get experience and come back a better player, but instead he complained about how Plata "told him what to do". I really hope someone asks about this because I think he will make a fool out of himself when he answers

[jloome]

He'll tell everyone that he's a genius and has forgot more about team building than we will ever know, and that everyone should just shut the fuck up and fall into line.

In all seriousness, I have a feeling that his response wouldn't be as political as people would expect. See the Plata situation. He could have been political and said that he's been sent out to get experience and come back a better player, but instead he complained about how Plata "told him what to do". I really hope someone asks about this because I think he will make a fool out of himself when he answers

These are personality cuts/career demands, as all of these players have the potential to play in MLS. They're all depth players, to be sure -- maybe Cann could start from time to time -- but they're also all cheap.

Seems a pointless move. Certainly, cutting Cordon and Lindsay at that age seems stupid, as both are talented. Cordon I'm not sure thinks quickly enough to be a playmaker at MLS level, but Lindsay certainly did. Even if the accident cost him some speed, he's a tricky dribbler and delivers a good ball. Seems a dumb cut.

Then again, much of pro soccer seems personality driven to me, with little regard for results. Hercules Gomez was cut by Colorado; if you believe Jorge Vergara, Preki actually turned down Chicarito at Chivas, which makes him possibly the stupidest coach in history, as a child born without eyes could tell that his finishing quality.

[Whoop]

That Preki turned down Chicarito story has been disputed. Just Vergara making waves.

[Alixir]

I may just be one of the only people here who is glad Cann is gone

[narduch]

Don't be surprised if next season TFC carries a similar amount of Canadians as Montreal and Vancouver.

If I'm Montreal of Vancouver I would try to grab Cann as a back up defender.

I'm worried a little about the future of Cordon, Makabuya and Lindsay. We really do need more Canadian NASL teams.

[jloome]

I may just be one of the only people here who is glad Cann is gone

He has some serious deficiencies in his game, but his positioning and aerial work are very good. When he was dropped the first time from the starting lineup, he was average six headers won in the box per game.

His tackling is poor and he was a deep dropper, he was afraid to play his man tight in the six yards before the top of the box, which meant he gave up shots he shouldn't have. But by MLS standards, he was a decent third defender.

[Yohan]

That Preki turned down Chicarito story has been disputed. Just Vergara making waves.

plus it would have been just a loan

[__wowza]

sad to see lindsay go, he was a bright spot in our fourth season.. but two years out takes it's toll.

[Ajax TFC]

Hard to say whether Lindsay was dropped because of huge drop in form from his injury, or because Mariner didn't like him. For all we know he still had everything but his speed and he was cut because Mariner didn't like how he defends, or maybe he didn't run hard enough in training. Who knows. All I know is that I'm not going to speculate on his current quality based on Mariner's judgement. Same goes for Cordon who looked good for his age in the games that he played and the reserve games I saw him in

[TOBOR !]

half of these guys will end up in San Antonio

[Yohan]

That Preki turned down Chicarito story has been disputed. Just Vergara making waves.
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2012/11/sources-vergaras-story-claiming-preki-passed-on-chicharito-not-true.html

[narduch]

half of these guys will end up in San Antonio

More likely Edmonton.

[Torontotonto]

These players will have little if no effect going forward.
The only change that will have an immediate impact has to start at the top.
Get rid of the ROT

[brad]

plus it would have been just a loan

Any word on the timing? Have to remember that Chicharito struggled to break into the team initially, and he also had some major injury problems - he almost quit the game and pursued a career in business instead.

[Benficachop20]

lindsay really? the guy just returned from injury, the very least let him play in the pre season matches to regain fitness and form. My god we're doomed under these idiots.

[Phil]

lindsay really? the guy just returned from injury, the very least let him play in the pre season matches to regain fitness and form. My god we're doomed under these idiots.

I would hazzard a guess they monitored him pretty closely during practice and rehab.

2 year recovery pretty much made it clear to me.

Its going to be a wild ride though. I don't think the cuts are stopping here.

[Beach_Red]

Wiedeman hasn't 'officially' graduated Generation Adidas status. More cuts could be pending, and this is just the first wave (see what I did there?)

Very funny.....

[narduch]

From a Larson tweet:

I'm told no more cuts imminent for #TFC (http://redpatchboys.ca/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) ... But there could be more coming.

[ArmenJBX]

I spoke to Oscar Cordon. Here's what he said:


"I'm actually excited to be honest. This year was rough. But as bad as it sounds, this is what I wanted."

I'll have a chance to (hopefully) get a full interview when he comes back to Toronto.

[Ageroo]

I spoke to Oscar Cordon. Here's what he said:



I'll have a chance to (hopefully) get a full interview when he comes back to Toronto.


Tell him if you get an interview that you will use an "un-named source" instead of just quoting him directly...that might get him talking. ;)

[v00d00daddy]

I spoke to Oscar Cordon. Here's what he said:


"I'm actually excited to be honest. This year was rough. But as bad as it sounds, this is what I wanted"

I'll have a chance to (hopefully) get a full interview when he comes back to Toronto.


Doesn't surprise me that he's happy to be out. There is no hope for him to grow at TFC. I'd imagine that Cordon would like to grow into a ball distributing midfielder who tends to control the pace of the game.

There was no way that was ever going to happen under Mariner. If Mariner doesn't rate Luis Silva what chance did Cordon have?

[mdc 77]

Thats great for Oscar Cordon to get what he wants...but with all due respect to him, i don't think he is very good or has that much upside. I could be wrong but I don't think he'll ever be a starter in MLS.

[Chevy]

I just looked at his twitter and he also wrote "thank god" on Oct 31. Maybe he just likes to say that a lot! haha

I think the October 31st tweet was in reference to Mariner dressing up as a professioal soccer manager for Halloween.

[TFC07]

If Hall (both of them), Maund and Wiedeman aren't cut before next year, then say goodbye to our 2013 season.


Fire Mariner and Co.

[bones]

The most important message from this (6 players gone) is that it was done without a new President. The existing assclown cut them which indicates there will be no changes to FO in the near future. The assclown is making his cuts and will follow that with his additions in expectation we'll see him jumping up and down like a lunatic on the sidelines once again next season.

[notthesun]

Can anyone confirm for me that there's some MLS rule that you can't release players on the long-term injury list? Because otherwise I really don't see the logic in keeping Lindsay on the books for 2 years while injured, having him play 4 minutes and then cutting him. We did the same thing with Bouchiba, who never even played a minute for us. Same with Harden this year. As soon as they're healthy, bye bye.

[Benficachop20]

If Hall (both of them), Maund and Wiedeman aren't cut before next year, then say goodbye to our 2013 season.


Fire Mariner and Co.

the fact we're keeping mariner and co means goodbye to the 2013 season.

[Ajax TFC]

Can anyone confirm for me that there's some MLS rule that you can't release players on the long-term injury list? Because otherwise I really don't see the logic in keeping Lindsay on the books for 2 years while injured, having him play 4 minutes and then cutting him. We did the same thing with Bouchiba, who never even played a minute for us. Same with Harden this year. As soon as they're healthy, bye bye.
I believe that rule does exist. Keeping Lindsay isn't a big deal because he essentially made minimum wage and he wasn't one of the top 20 salaries, so he only took up a roster spot

[BeachTory]

Re Cann
the team poured resources into his rehab. I talked to him at length in july at the academy where he was completing his rehab. I was impressed on how much he and dicoy had been supported while injured and he was very thankful. The team does lots of the little things right for their players but it is hard to over come to permanent disadvantage cdn teams have in MLS, specifically the no work permit for spouses of american players. US players can take a us based offer knowing their wife can work but here, they have to get much more to make up the familiy income or leave the spouse behind to work. Taxes are not an issue anymore btw.

Sorry to see Cann go, but he goes more slowly now with repared knees...

[Chinatownchef]

These moves says so much about TFC's ineffectiveness to develop their own home-grown talent. That's 4 local GTA players among the six in that cut, to add insult to injury, the team won't give these guys time to after injury to evaluate their real worth, nor play them in regular game situations. What's the point of owning an academy if you just throw away all your development?

[brad]

Mariner is going to worry about saving his skin by making the playoffs next year - not developing Academy players.

[Soccerpro]

Mariner is going to worry about saving his skin by making the playoffs next year - not developing Academy players.

What current manager in MLS doesn't think that way? How many home growns did San Jose play this year?

[Soccerpro]

Most of these cuts were predictable. These aren't the cuts that will save the club next year. Those would be Emery, Hall, Weiderman etc..

[ArmenJBX]

I actually think we should keep those guys around. Every MLS team needs players like Hall, Weideman and Emory; if we got rid of them, we'd simply replace them for the same level of players, and, to be honest, they're not terrible. They're just not starting XI quality.

[Yohan]

What current manager in MLS doesn't think that way? How many home growns did San Jose play this year?
I don't even know if SJ has a proper youth academy

[Pookie]

I don't even know if SJ has a proper youth academy

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/academy

Every MLS team has a "proper" youth academy. MLS mandated that they have one. SJ has teams at U16 and U18 along with a program for those U14. They run camps, clinics (they call development schools) just as our TFC does.

If it looks like a blueprint, it is because it is.

[Pookie]

These moves says so much about TFC's ineffectiveness to develop their own home-grown talent. That's 4 local GTA players among the six in that cut, to add insult to injury, the team won't give these guys time to after injury to evaluate their real worth, nor play them in regular game situations. What's the point of owning an academy if you just throw away all your development?

They didn't own one by choice. This team came into being in 2007 and it wasn't until 2011 that they got one. And they got it because the league mandated it to all clubs.

The Homegrown push is big in MLS, partly to support the USSF and partly to profit from a relationship with Adidas who want to own the youth segment.

[Greatest Ripoff]

I actually think we should keep those guys around. Every MLS team needs players like Hall, Weideman and Emory; if we got rid of them, we'd simply replace them for the same level of players, and, to be honest, they're not terrible. They're just not starting XI quality.

Emory yes, but Hall at $149,000 and Wiedeman at $123,000? Nope. They should be replaced with players of the same level that make less money.

[TOBOR !]

Emory yes, but Hall at $149,000 and Wiedeman at $123,000? Nope. They should be replaced with players of the same level that make less money.

I'd rather see them replaced with better players who are worth that much money.

[Beach_Red]

They didn't own one by choice. This team came into being in 2007 and it wasn't until 2011 that they got one. And they got it because the league mandated it to all clubs.

The Homegrown push is big in MLS, partly to support the USSF and partly to profit from a relationship with Adidas who want to own the youth segment.

And partly because it's been very tough to sell a "foreign" sport in the US. Sure, baseball has a lot of non-American players now and the NBA is catching up but both those leagues got well-established with US born players. Hockey never did and its still a regional sport in the US.

[prizby]

I actually think we should keep those guys around. Every MLS team needs players like Hall, Weideman and Emory; if we got rid of them, we'd simply replace them for the same level of players, and, to be honest, they're not terrible. They're just not starting XI quality.

Emory is fine at his salary, but to be paying 149k and 123k for hall and weideman...well i'd replace them if i got something similar at 1/3 the price

[Pookie]

And partly because it's been very tough to sell a "foreign" sport in the US. Sure, baseball has a lot of non-American players now and the NBA is catching up but both those leagues got well-established with US born players. Hockey never did and its still a regional sport in the US.

I'd buy that as part of the Homegrown push too.

[Pookie]

Emory is fine at his salary, but to be paying 149k and 123k for hall and weideman...well i'd replace them if i got something similar at 1/3 the price

This is the challenge though that I brought forward yesterday (on WakingtheRed). The numbers you are using are from the MLS Players Union not the league.

The Union doesn't publish those numbers to give you an idea of the budget charge. They publish them for agents and players to help in their negotiation with the league. The guaranteed comp is an annualized amount and doesn't include performance bonuses. Performance bonuses can be team specific but under the CBA they can also be given by the league for the number of wins an MLS team gets (TFC is screwed there) or going deep in tournaments. If Weideman earned a bonus out of NCAA as a Generation Adidas player and had an agent fee, the Union would annualize that the guaranteed number.

Both Hall and Weideman are Gen Adidas players therefore their total "comp" would be higher relative to other players like a Morgan (or Henry) who had no such benefits given to him under contract.

The league's budget calculator is completely different from what you see. Because it is a financial budget, it counts only the money that is due in the current year. Since those bonuses may have already been paid, it is completely reasonable to assume that Weideman's budget charge may be close to his base salary of just $80k. And because Adidas is paying some of the freight for these specific players, the amount that actually comes off the league's budget is in question.

Once we collectively can wrap our heads around that concept, we may realize that we are holding players to "values" that are not necessarily reflecting reality. The league doesn't publish salary data, or allocation amounts, and never intends to.

[cmonyoureds]

They didn't own one by choice. This team came into being in 2007 and it wasn't until 2011 that they got one. And they got it because the league mandated it to all clubs.

The Homegrown push is big in MLS, partly to support the USSF and partly to profit from a relationship with Adidas who want to own the youth segment.


So what Anselmi really should have said in that famous "cyclical" interview is:

"We started behind every other expansion team because we didn't have an academy. This was our choice, and even after seeing it was contributing to us lagging behind other teams in winning, because it would have been in the expense column of the balance sheet, we didn't start the academy until we were forced to."

[Pookie]

So what Anselmi really should have said in that famous "cyclical" interview is:

"We started behind every other expansion team because we didn't have an academy. This was our choice, and even after seeing it was contributing to us lagging behind other teams in winning, because it would have been in the expense column of the balance sheet, we didn't start the academy until we were forced to."

Yep :hump:

[T-boy]

Most of these cuts were predictable. These aren't the cuts that will save the club next year. Those would be Emery, Hall, Weiderman etc..


I actually think we should keep those guys around. Every MLS team needs players like Hall, Weideman and Emory; if we got rid of them, we'd simply replace them for the same level of players, and, to be honest, they're not terrible. They're just not starting XI quality.

The 6 cut so far are all fine by me. You can make an argument for the 3 Academy players, but honestly I haven't seen anything from them that suggests they are going to be any type of force in the MLS. Lindsay is unfortunate, but taking a whole 2 years out is going to be tough on any player.

On Hall and Weideman, I would like to see backup players on the lower end salary. Both make way too much money to be taking up a backup roster spot. There are many players in the league that make much less and are already first teamers. Emory is ok as a backup centre back so I would probably keep him around.

[Pookie]

On Hall and Weideman, I would like to see backup players on the lower end salary. Both make way too much money to be taking up a backup roster spot. There are many players in the league that make much less and are already first teamers. Emory is ok as a backup centre back so I would probably keep him around.

See above. It is most likely that Hall and Weideman have a budget count near the bottom end of the MLS pay structure

[T-boy]

See above. It is most likely that Hall and Weideman have a budget count near the bottom end of the MLS pay structure

with the GA players, when do they eventually just become a "normal" salary player? It seems a bit of a grey area for those outside the MLS office, so we (the fans) don't actually know their true salary? Or is it that at some point they revert to being just a normal play with normal salary?

[Yohan]

with the GA players, when do they eventually just become a "normal" salary player? It seems a bit of a grey area for those outside the MLS office, so we (the fans) don't actually know their true salary? Or is it that at some point they revert to being just a normal play with normal salary?

when MLS deems that they played enough first team games to 'graduate' from GA status. when that happens is very subjective, but generally once a player is more or less established as first team member, GA status gets revoked, or end of his GA contract, as it may be in case of Wiedeman

[zeelaw]

I wish they at least kept Lindsay, another reason if i was playing for the Academy i would never sign a pro contract with the team.
He shouldn't of got on that snowmobile.

[jabbronies]

Sucks that Cann is gone. More-so because his work ethic is great and at his age, he could be a decent role model for some of the young canadians coming up the ranks. He is a bench player IMO, but still has leadership qualities.

However, I'm not disappointed with any of the players being released. More need to happen including Weideman, Maund and Freddy Hall

[Yohan]

Maund isn't going anywhere I think. He's Mariner's new pet project, converting a CB to DM, just like Jeff Larentowicz was in NE.

[T-boy]

Maund isn't going anywhere I think. He's Mariner's new pet project, converting a CB to DM, just like Jeff Larentowicz was in NE.

To me, Maund doesn't seem anywhere near physical enough for DM. I wouldn't mind if he was trying to convert him to a cover RB for Ecks or something, but DM doesn't seem to be Maund's position at all!

[Pookie]

with the GA players, when do they eventually just become a "normal" salary player? It seems a bit of a grey area for those outside the MLS office, so we (the fans) don't actually know their true salary? Or is it that at some point they revert to being just a normal play with normal salary?

When their contract runs out.. typically after 4 years.

We don't know their salaries per se. We know what their base is but we also know that Adidas subsidizes it. Therefore the amount that MLS pays (and then charges) against its budget is likely a lot less. Ie. if the base is $80k but Adidas pays half of it, likely only $40k is the budget charge that MLS applies against a team.

Similarly, the guaranteed comp numbers the Union puts out includes all guaranteed bonuses, which for GA players includes an educational stipend in order for them to forgo the NCAA. So that guaranteed number of $149k for one of these guys includes the total annualzied amount of 4 years of tuition, a base salary and a base salary bump, all subsidized by Adidas.

I'm not defending their soccer skills however their "budget" charges are a lot less than is being suggested which seems to be an unfair basis to make a comparison.

[Yohan]

When their contract runs out.. typically after 4 years.

We don't know their salaries per se. We know what their base is but we also know that Adidas subsidizes it. Therefore the amount that MLS pays (and then charges) against its budget is likely a lot less. Ie. if the base is $80k but Adidas pays half of it, likely only $40k is the budget charge that MLS applies against a team.

Similarly, the guaranteed comp numbers the Union puts out includes all guaranteed bonuses, which for GA players includes an educational stipend in order for them to forgo the NCAA. So that guaranteed number of $149k for one of these guys includes the total annualzied amount of 4 years of tuition, a base salary and a base salary bump, all subsidized by Adidas.

I'm not defending their soccer skills however their "budget" charges are a lot less than is being suggested which seems to be an unfair basis to make a comparison.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules

-Players occupying roster spots 21-30 do not count against the club’s salary budget, and are referred to collectively as the club’s Off-Budget Players (maximum of 10 per team).

-All Generation adidas players are Off-Budget players.

[jabbronies]

Maund isn't going anywhere I think. He's Mariner's new pet project, converting a CB to DM, just like Jeff Larentowicz was in NE.

He is garbage at DM. Not tough enough and doesn't have the positioning or thought process to play that position. Everytime he's played it he's looked lost.

[Pookie]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules

-Players occupying roster spots 21-30 do not count against the club’s salary budget, and are referred to collectively as the club’s Off-Budget Players (maximum of 10 per team).

-All Generation adidas players are Off-Budget players.

Yes, 100% correct. Didn't realize that I did that, thanks. There is no budget charge for GA players.

I was looking at it from the perspective of the complaint that they are expensive relative to other players. The point is they aren't and their total compensation as published by the Union includes things that don't factor in for other players we are supposedly comparing them to.

[Canary10]

To me, Maund doesn't seem anywhere near physical enough for DM. I wouldn't mind if he was trying to convert him to a cover RB for Ecks or something, but DM doesn't seem to be Maund's position at all!

Not only that, he NEVER shows himself to the ball carrier. He should be making himself an option out the back. He basically just strolls around the pitch, seemingly oblivious to the fact a football match is going on around him. Also plays about four feet ahead of the backline. Hate to say it, but he's completely useless as a midfielder. Maybe he has a possibility of being a decent centre half, but even that I can't really see. Wasted a high draft pick in my opinion.

[ag futbol]

Not only that, he NEVER shows himself to the ball carrier. He should be making himself an option out the back. He basically just strolls around the pitch, seemingly oblivious to the fact a football match is going on around him. Also plays about four feet ahead of the backline. Hate to say it, but he's completely useless as a midfielder. Maybe he has a possibility of being a decent centre half, but even that I can't really see. Wasted a high draft pick in my opinion.
Agreed. And the funny part is he is just as useless when we are defending.

I'm not a rah-rah effort guy, but if you are going to destroy as a DM, you better have a good fucking motor on you. This guy just never seems interested in getting stuck in or showing for the ball as you said. It's like voluntarily playing with a man down when he is on the field.

[T-boy]

Not only that, he NEVER shows himself to the ball carrier. He should be making himself an option out the back. He basically just strolls around the pitch, seemingly oblivious to the fact a football match is going on around him. Also plays about four feet ahead of the backline. Hate to say it, but he's completely useless as a midfielder. Maybe he has a possibility of being a decent centre half, but even that I can't really see. Wasted a high draft pick in my opinion.

I can stomach a DM who is a pure tackler and nothing else. I don't mind if a DM sits in front of the backline, even. Of course, "ideally" a DM should have passing ability as well, like Alonso or Beckermann. But that's "ideally". But Maund just doesn't have the tackling ability at all! That's number one on the list of atributes a DM needs, and he doesn't even have that!

[ryan]

I can stomach a DM who is a pure tackler and nothing else. I don't mind if a DM sits in front of the backline, even. Of course, "ideally" a DM should have passing ability as well, like Alonso or Beckermann. But that's "ideally". But Maund just doesn't have the tackling ability at all! That's number one on the list of atributes a DM needs, and he doesn't even have that!

Maund is a ball watcher. Thinks slow. Acts slower.

[Canary10]

I can stomach a DM who is a pure tackler and nothing else. I don't mind if a DM sits in front of the backline, even. Of course, "ideally" a DM should have passing ability as well, like Alonso or Beckermann. But that's "ideally". But Maund just doesn't have the tackling ability at all! That's number one on the list of atributes a DM needs, and he doesn't even have that!

Yeah, you would hope that at the very least your defensive midfielder can tackle, lol. But really, in a professional league he needs to be able to move the ball too. He really just takes up space and nothing more.

[Canary10]

Honestly, he'd be in my cut now list.

[Section 117]

I am wondering can the FO be cut too? That would be the best news we could get

[mastermixer]

Not surprised by most of the cuts, but it means nothing unless they are replaced with upgrades. This merry-go-round is getting boring.

[Yohan]

It's still early. Looking forward to re entry draft and see what's going on there

[TFC_Allez]

Can't say I'm surprised by any of the cuts. I feel for Adrian the most. I'm sure he already knew his fate before he had his exit interview. You could see it in his face and just the responses he was giving that he knew he was done. At 32, I don't see him really getting picked up by anyone else in MLS. I hope for his sake though that he does. He's a solid defender and ALWAYS gives it his all. So did Ty. But Ty just wasn't good enough. Its just more of the same revolving door. Can't wait to see who's next.

[ag futbol]

Zero points awarded for guessing who reps Maund

http://santiosport.com/twelve-santio-players-selected-in-2012-mls-superdraft/

[spark]

Zero points awarded for guessing who reps Maund

http://santiosport.com/twelve-santio-players-selected-in-2012-mls-superdraft/

Nice work.

Is anyone surprised? Barry MacLean still hanging around and now it's Mariner instead of Mo. I wouldn't be surprised if he recommended him to Tom.

[Canary10]

What's the story with Barry McLean? I don't really know who he is. Find it weird that his company's mailing address is Wilfrid Laurier University (where I did my undergrad). What's up with that?

[Chevy]

I still don't see why we cut Williams? Sure he takes up an international spot but the quality was there for the salary he was making.

I think we all know what this means for the guy. Based on TFC's history with released players, he's 1) destined to qualify for the WC with the Jamaican side and 2) score a game winner in the group stage, probably against Brazil.

[Abou Sky]

I may just be one of the only people here who is glad Cann is gone

No you are not, unless they decided to go with an all Canadian team I don't much care about nationality. To me it is a yes/no type thing.

There are less than 10 people they should keep on the roster.

[Pookie]

No you are not, unless they decided to go with an all Canadian team I don't much care about nationality. To me it is a yes/no type thing.

There are less than 10 people they should keep on the roster.

Opinion on his skills aside, Cann was all class. Always willing to talk. Will never forget the words of inspiration he gave my son.

[ag futbol]

What's the story with Barry McLean? I don't really know who he is. Find it weird that his company's mailing address is Wilfrid Laurier University (where I did my undergrad). What's up with that?
He's the boucer in front of Phil's... Just kidding ( also did my undergrad at Laurier). He's the women's soccer coach from what i've heard

To be fair to McLean / Santio Sports, I bet several of the guys who were cut also under their wing. They rep quite a few guys.

I wish things were more publicly disclosed to it was possible to research further. Client list used to be public, now it's private. I remember back in the day we ( and one other MLS team) were their biggest clients.

[Pookie]

He's the boucer in front of Phil's... Just kidding ( also did my undergrad at Laurier).

Are you kids old enough to remember the Turret or Wilf's?

Little House Represent.

[burlington Red]

tough sport, hard to see Canadian players let go, but Cann had to go. Appreciate his desire etc but football wise just not good enough. Considering how we played out the tail end of last yr ie long ball, I would have thought he would have got more games as that style of play suits him perfectly. He did well in 2010 and I thank him for that.

[ag futbol]

Are you kids old enough to remember the Turret or Wilf's?

Little House Represent.
Yeah for sure. I think those two still exist, the only thing that got lost was the grad pub that they tore down when I was in 2nd year or so.

I was in Wilson hall when I was there.

[Shakes McQueen]

Not surprised at any of these names. Also don't blame them for being sore towards the FO. Wish them well, but not terribly sad to see any of them go.

- Scott