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DichioTFC
10-31-2012, 01:35 PM
After being in absentia for a bit, I wanted to start looking forward to 2013 and see what improvements can be made to this team. After listening to the year end interviews, it would appears the players and PM are in agreement that we're close to making the playoffs, which I personally agree. Obviously there's some roster attrition but there's enough talent for some starting spots and some depth that we can use moving forward. No need for an absolute overhaul, again, in my opinion and apparently in PM's opinion as well. So that leaves the question, where do we go from here?

Using the most recent salary information from the Players Union - http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/October 1, 2012 Salary Information - By Club.pdf - these are the salaries of players currently on the roster, organized by biggest salary cap hit (the furthest column is their actual salary for 2012 with annualized bonuses included).

Roster No.
Last Name
First Name
Position
Cap Hit
Total Salary


1
Frings
Torsten
M
$367,000
$2,413,667


2
Hassli
Eric
F
$367,000
$790,000


3
Koevermans
Danny
F
$367,000
$1,563,323


4
O'Dea
Darren
D
$330,000
$436,250


5
Califf
Danny
D
$275,000
$275,000



6
Eckersley
Richard
D
$210,000
$390,000


7
Frei
Stefan
GK
$120,000
$175,000


8
Braun
Justin
F
$102,000
$104,500


9
Hall
Jeremy
D
$100,000
$149,000


10
Dunfield
Terry
M
$86,000
$86,000


11
Wiedeman
Andrew
F
$80,000
$123,000


12
Lambe
Reggie
M
$60,000
$62,500


13
Plata
Joao
F
$50,000
$50,000


14







15







16







17







18







19







20















21
Henry
Doneil
D
$44,100
$45,100


22
Morgan
Ashtone
D
$44,000
$56,000


23
Silva
Luis
M
$44,000
$79,000


24
Amarikwa
Quincy
F
$44,000
$44,100


25
Bendik
Joe
GK
$44,000
$44,000


26
Emory
Logan
D
$44,000
$44,000


27
Stinson
Matthew
M
$44,000
$44,000


28
Roberts
Quillan
GK
$33,750
$33,750


29
cap space


-$35,000



30
cap space


-$35,000





UPDATE 12/15/12: Included Danny Califf at his 2012 salary levels (major assumption throughout my analysis is that allocation money increases and renegotiated contracts with Hall, Wiedeman and Califf will cancel out salary increases for Morgan and Henry).

MLS rules indicate a roster can have 30 players, but players 1-20 must be no more than $2.8 million (I'll be assuming $3 million, as Yohan notes below with salary cap increase and allocation money), while players 21-30 are paid league minimum salary (with a lot of exceptions, but generally speaking that's the trend - with one notable exception that we can have $70K in roster allocation if we have a roster of no more than 28 - hence roster spots 29 & 30 are negative money). Assuming all other things remain constant (like player salaries - which wont, but let's assume anyways) and ignoring extra allocation money we might have, I've created two groups. The first group are 12 players who are above the league minimum and would be in our 1-20 if they stick around (bottom spots taken up by a league minimum salaries as they arrive). The bottom group of 21-30 are being paid the league minimum so they do not have to be considered when calculating cap space.

The cumulative salary of the 13 players in the 1-20 group are $2.52 million, leaving around $480K remaining under the cap. If we add the extra $70K in roster allocation (assuming we only have a roster of 28), this leaves us with approx $550K. Assuming we keep the players above and stick to a roster of 28, that leaves $78.5K on average for each of the 7 remaining roster spots.

This leads to several questions: Is this a good enough core to start 2013? What positions do we need to address and how much should we spend? Can we afford to fill the roster with quality players and have the necessary depth to cover for Frings & Koevermans? Would it make financial sense to trade away a forward (EDIT: Resolved - RJ9 traded away, cheaper Justin Braun brought in)? Are eight new players enough to improve this squad in 2013? Are there other cost efficiencies that can be made on this roster? I've intended for this thread to be more about a salary cap discussion than about player movement, so if we can stick to that topic (or at least talk about player movement in the context of salary cap discussions) before thread derailment, I would appreciate it ;)

Yohan
10-31-2012, 01:44 PM
I think the salary cap is at 2.95 mil next season. Plus 'you suck' allocation money, plus whatever allocation left over from this season, Mariner actually has somewhat decent amount of wiggle room for roster.

DichioTFC
10-31-2012, 01:49 PM
My thoughts about all this - I'm surprised we have a lot of allocation money left over to make some player movements. We're not stuck with crappy long-term contracts. I thought Wiedeman should go as well, as his contribution doesn't justify his salary hit. Also, I would be willing to trade away Hassli if we can get a better DP from overseas to come in, but I would be fine if we started the season with him. Still, keeping Hassli and not resigning Wiedeman, we're looking at $650K of space for 7 players. This is how our starting 2013 lineup looks to me, including depth and missing starters:


------------Johnson----Koevermans--------
----------(Amarikwa)-------????-----------
--------Silva------Avila---------Plata------
---------????----(Dunfield)-----(Lambe)----
-----------------------Frings---------------
-----------------------?????---------------
---Morgan---Henry---O'Dea----Eckersley---
----????-----?????---(Dicoy)----?????------
----------------Frei------------------------
---------------(Kocic)----------------------

Depth: Lindsay, Cordon, Stinson, Roberts

Those six question marks are how I would classify our needs. Also, we'll need to add to our depth, so a hardworking under-appreciated player would fit with our depth well. I would allocate most of our resources, $400K or so, to shoring up our backline. Of course we'll get someone in the draft, but we'll need some experience in case we have another injury crisis.

T-boy
10-31-2012, 01:49 PM
Going through the roster, I'd honestly only keep 10 of the players! If I was playing Football Manager I would start getting rid of all the other players asap!

DichioTFC
10-31-2012, 01:51 PM
I think the salary cap is at 2.95 mil next season. Plus 'you suck' allocation money, plus whatever allocation left over from this season, Mariner actually has somewhat decent amount of wiggle room for roster.

I figured the cap was going up, just wasn't sure how much. I figured the cap combined with 'you suck' money would be offset by player raises anyways, so I didn't make any attempt to calculate it..

T-boy
10-31-2012, 01:57 PM
I figured the cap was going up, just wasn't sure how much. I figured the cap combined with 'you suck' money would be offset by player raises anyways, so I didn't make any attempt to calculate it..

Didn't TFC get more allocation money this last season due to being in the champions league? So even with a little more money coming from being last overall, we will probably get LESS allocation next season, no?

DichioTFC
10-31-2012, 02:28 PM
Didn't TFC get more allocation money this last season due to being in the champions league? So even with a little more money coming from being last overall, we will probably get LESS allocation next season, no?

Any allocation money we received last year was a bonus above and beyond what we were already entitled to under MLS rules. Next year will be no different. This is how MLS gives allocation money:



Allocation money is a resource available to clubs in addition to their respective salary budgets. A club may receive allocation money for:



failure to qualify for the MLS Cup Playoffs;
the transfer of a player to a club outside of MLS for value;
expansion status;
qualification for the CONCACAF Champions League;
trading in up to two Off-Budget roster spots;
funds from purchased third designated player roster spots.



1 and 4 are obvious (we qualified for 2012 CCL). 5 is a possibility if we had 28 players on our roster (which I think we did at times, but others may be more sure). Also, with trades comes allocation money - I would assume we received quite a bit following the JDG trade. How much we have incoming / outgoing through trades is anyone's guess. But I'm sure that the allocation money will be the same in 2013, if not a bit more.

Semantics and minutia aside, assuming we have $570K of allocation is a good starting point.

Yohan
10-31-2012, 03:24 PM
My take on this

Name/Position/Age/Salary (base salary was used, not guaranteed compensation)

KEEP
Quincy Amarikwa/F/25/44k
-Small, but pacy striker who works his butt off but doesn't add much. Worth keeping due to his league min wage, and he is a decent energy guy for late sub.

Eric Avila/M/24/125k
-One of few technically gifted players on the roster. Avila is a pure AM who has good passing and dribbling skills (see his goal when he broke Jamison Olave's ankles vs RSL) who can be a key piece on any MLS team. His weakness is his small stature, and is not very good at defending which is required in Mariner's 4-4-2 system. However, at 24, he's got a lot of years left in MLS and if given starter mins, I'm sure he can overcome his consistency, if he plays under a manager who believes in him. (Mariner doesn't)

Terry Dunfield/M/30/86k
-The team MVP had one of stronger performances in a team that had a terrible season. Tenacious DM who will work his ass off given his limited talents, Dunfield scored some key goals (incl last min winner vs Vancouver) and provided leadership on the field and in the locker room when very few of that was to be found. His positioning and reading of the game is suspect, and under pressure, he takes the safe back passes one too many times, however, Dunfield is an underrated passer who can hit a running man if given a bit of space. For 86k, Dunfield is a good depth player in MLS and an occassional starter.

Richard Eckersley/D/23/210k
-The raging ginger proved to be one of better players on the roster. As much as he hates playing CB, I think his time on CB may have improved his game with better positioning, used his pace well and learning to restrain his some times reckless runs. Some question his high salary relative to other MLS fullbacks, but I think at 23, with a lot of upside, Ecks should be a key part of TFC defence next year at RB, to eventually build a consistent backline with chemistry that all strong MLS teams have, and only playing together can build.

Logan Emory/D/24/44k
-Emory is a depth defender who can play CB/LB. He has been criticized for poor games, however, Emory is still learning the game. He needs a commanding CB partner to keep him on track, but he has an underrated sharp, short passing ability (his long passes are another story) and has ok pace. At his salary and being versatile left footer, he's worth keeping for depth next season.

Stefan Frei/GK/26/120k
-Injured for most of the season, with only one game in CCL vs LA in March, Frei should be fully healthy come pre season. One of best shot stoppers in the league. Needs to work on crosses and commanding the box. Current vice captain of the team is the longest serving member, and he will get the chance to prove himself during pre season if not just to increase his trade value if Mariner choose to go another direction.

Eric Hassli/F/31/550k
-Hassli is a passionate player who has all the technical ability to succeed in MLS, but just has problem doing it on consistent basis. Big and strong, he can hold off even the most physical MLS CBs. Has soft first touch with cannon of a right foot and a threat with long strikes. He has scored 3 goals and chipped in 2 assists in 7 games he played for TFC since joining mid season. But injury ridden and with questionable consistency, I would like Hassli to come back at about 250k, but not at DP salary.

Doneil Henry/D/19/44k
-One of bright prospects in TFC, Henry has improved his game, adding being an occassionally adequate RB to his repetoire. Has decent physical stature to play with most physical MLS strikers, he now needs to add consistency and mentally being aware at all times to his game. Is a good depth CB for now, and will only grow if he gets the mins he needs in games.

Ryan Johnson/F/M/29/138k
-A tough year for Ryan Johnson who at times showed flashes of class (his goal vs Seattle and NY), but got bitten by Chad Barrett syndrome sometimes missing the easiest of chances. Has the physical tools to play in MLS, but he gets easily frustrated and be taken out of a game. Is a starter for now, but he really is a 3rd striker on most MLS teams.

Milos Kocic/GK/27/44k
-Had a decent year before contract dispute and starting a family took his game mentally off line. Proved to be able starting keeper on most MLS teams, with above average shot stopping ability and decent ability to command the box. He really deserves a raise, and either he gets a raise to about 80k and fight for starting spot in Toronto, or be traded to another team so that he can start fresh.

Danny Koevermans/F/33/1.115k
-One of most lethal finishers to ever play in MLS, he has scored 17 goals in 26 appearances since joining TFC. Has issues with fitness and injury, and a huge question at his age, whether he will still have the ability to play in MLS next season after coming back from a serious injury. TFC will be hoping that the team is competitive enough to stay in the play off races so that when Koevermans comes back probably mid season fully fit, he will bang in the goals again.

Reggie Lambe/M/21/60k
-Lambe finally found a home in Toronto, getting consistent mins. A tricky winger with flashes of good technique, Lambe is only 21 and is still learning his trade. Has ability to be a starter in MLS, if he can work on his consistency. At 60k, he's worth keeping around, esp since TFC does not have many legit wingers at the moment.

Nicholas Lindsay/M/20/44k
-Finally fully recovered after a horrific accident that took 2 years to recover, Lindsay is an exciting winger who has speed and crossing ability to stretch defences. He should be fighting for depth mins next pre season.

Ashtone Morgan/D/21/44k
-Cemented his place as a legit LB in MLS. Good pace, making excellent overlapping runs. Tenacious in defence, but questionable positioning at times. Needs to work on his crossing to be more complete MLS fullback.

Darren O'Dea/D/25/330k
-A tough year for O'Dea who joined the team mid season and did not fully play to the ability he has. A commanding centreback that TFC lacked since joining the league, O'Dea is a current Irish international who can marshall the defence and provide leadership ability. If he stays, along with a decent MLS CB as a partner and Morgan and Ecks at fullback, TFC may finally have that consistent backline key to success in MLS.

Joao Plata/F/M/20/50k
-A fan favourite, Plata fell out with TFC FO and got sent on loan to LDU Quito making limited appearance. Pace winger with decent dribbling ability, Plata's biggest obstacle is his small physique and one dimensional play, esp inability to play adequate defence in a 4-4-2 system. If he can add a little more to his game, he would be worth keeping in MLS. But remains to be seen whether Plata will even be back in Toronto for pre season and whether he has mental game to play. But at 50k, he'd still be worth keeping for depth.

Quillan Roberts/GK/18/44k
-Young GK prospect who I think is a mistake bringing up from academy. Needs game time somewhere.

Luis Silva/M/23/44k
-Silva had a good rookie season, with 5 goals and 5 assists in league play. More of a trequista in the mold of Totti than second striker or attacking midfielder, Silva has good awareness in final third of the pitch with decent passing ability and some finishing ability. Needs to work on his defending to be more complete box to box mid that Mariner would like him to play. But excellent young player who will be a quality MLS starter in few years.

Yohan
10-31-2012, 03:25 PM
MAYBE
Oscar Cordon/M/19/44k
-An AM who has some technical skills, but found himself in the reserves for the season. What Cordon needs is game time, even if it's at CSL/NASL or even NCAA where he can develop something for his game before he fades away.

Torsten Frings/M/35/2 mil
-Team captain missed about half the season due to injury, and it showed on the field that TFC really missed him. Age has caught up to him with injuries, losing pace and ability to keep up with more athletic MLS players. But he is still one of best DMs in the league with excellent positioning and organizer. One of few players on the team who can take a set piece. I put him as a maybe, because it's questionable whether Frings will be fully healthy come pre season, and whether he still has the physical ability to play a grueling MLS season. It may be better to just buy out his contract and use the cap space to bring in younger players who will be able to contribute in the long run.

Aaron Maund/D/M/21/44k
-Former US U20 player found himself in hot water. A tough rookie season where he got mins, but he found himself having to relearn being a midfielder after playing CB for 3 years in NCAA. A good athletic with good attitude, Maund is a work in progress who may end up being a decent MLS player, but he would be buried in reserve on most MLS teams.

Matt Stinson/M/20/44k
-Canadian U20 player had a tough year after a decent 2011. Did not get the mins needed for his development. Stinson works hard, but is very average DM technically and does not stand out. Hard to see where he fits under Mariner's system, considering Maund is preferred over him.

RELEASE
Adrian Cann/D/32/126k
-A tough year for Cann who was injured for a lot of the season, and found his mins limited when he came back. Big, strong with tremendous work ethic, coming this late into his career, he may be a decent depth CB if his salary was like 75k. But at 126k, he doesn't have the attributes to be a starter on an MLS team, given his lack of pace and poor positioning, as well his tendency to make boneheaded plays from time to time.

Jeremy Hall/D/24/100k
-One of few players to really benefit under Mariner, Hall is a versatile player who can play RB and RW and DM in a pinch. Has decent pace and athleticism but that's about it. He has poor positioning, easily gets beaten in 1v1 situations and generally proved to be not good enough to play defence at MLS level, esp at 100k. If he made league min, he might be worth bringing back, but not at 100k.

Ty Harden/D/28/90k
-Lost his spot as soon as defenders became more healthy and then got injured mid season. Nobody tries harder than Harden, but effort isn't good enough at MLS level. His 90k salary is better spent finding more quality depth.

Keith Makubuya/F/19/44k
-Makubuya finds himself in similar situation as Cordon; stuck in the reserves and career is going nowhere. He needs game time somewhere, esp since it looks like TFC doesn't rate him at all.

Andrew Wiedeman/F/23/80k
-Wiedeman has one major advantage, that he is a GA for this season. Considering he's been GA for 3 years now, very doubtable he will be a GA next year and at 80k, doesn't offer much to justify his salary. He is very average striker but with some of poacher skills and not afraid to take a shot. Can also play winger, and also been experimented at fullback at Dallas. Would be decent depth at 44k, but not at 80k.

Dicoy Williams/D/26/52k
-Finally healthy after major injury, Williams is very average MLS CB who doesn't add much to TFC defence, even at cheap salary, but he takes up an int spot. Players of his calibre can be found for league min in MLS.

jloome
10-31-2012, 04:10 PM
KEEP: Danny Koevermans, Ashtone Morgan, Reggie Lambe, Luis Silva, Matt Stinson.

Everyone else would be in play if we can upgrade. Rationale: Koevermans when healthy is world-class; Morgan, Silva and Stinson all have the ability to play regularly already and great room for improvement; Lambe is a bargain for a winger of his quality.

Everyone else, and I mean everyone, should be in play for a better deal. I include Doneil Henry in that, as so far I'm not sure he's smart enough as a player for MLS. He probably will be eventually, but he isn't yet. Stinson might surprise someone but I think he's got a good football brain (ala Sam Cronin) and combined with decent techique that can go a long way. Silva actually isn't ready to be a two-way midfielder in this league as his defense and defensive movement in particular are very weak, but he's got great natural talent as an attacker and moves smartly around the box. We should move him into the role of hole player, winger (not wide midfielder, a true 'wing forward' winger) or striker.

AlanO
10-31-2012, 05:08 PM
What I'd do, if in charge.. not necessarily what I think the FO will do.

Keep as starters:
Koevermans
Morgan
Frei
O'Dea
Ecks
Silva
Frings, if he's willing to be a CB

Keep as bench/depth options:
Avila
Johnson
Dunfield
Henry
Stinson
Lambe
Roberts
Plata, if he's willing to return

Maybes:
Frings, if he only wants to play midfield
Hassli, if Koevermans' recovery isn't going well.
Amarikwa
Kocic, if he's willing to be a backup. Otherwise trade him - he deserves a shot at being a starter somewhere else.
Emory
Lindsay

Release:
Wiedeman
Maund
Hassli, if Koevermans' recovery is going well
Cann (too expensive for a depth CB)
J. Hall
F. Hall
Harden
Williams
Cordon
Makabuya


Need:
- Starting CB, although I think Frings would be fine here if he's okay with playing at the back
- 3-4 starting midfielders
- Depth fullbacks
- One of starting AM or starting forward

gracos
10-31-2012, 06:48 PM
Starters
Darren O'Dea
Terry Dunfield
Richard Eckersley
Stefan Frei
Doneil Henry
Danny Koevermans
Ashtone Morgan


Bench
Quincy Amarikwa
Eric Avila
Reggie Lambe
Joao Plata
Luis Silva
Ryan Johnson

Rest of our current players get rid of

Chevy
10-31-2012, 07:52 PM
Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.

jloome
10-31-2012, 08:03 PM
Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.

We only saw him a couple of times. He might be good depth but I was put off by his positioning (he was caught high a couple of times) and his lack of strength. He seemed reasonable disciplined, passes okay. What can I say, i just don't see enough in most of our squad to say I'd keep them.

starter
10-31-2012, 08:14 PM
Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.
I am on record few times asking how come a cb good for JNT not good for TFC? Unless he shares RJ view of Mariner of course.

Benficachop20
10-31-2012, 08:37 PM
Keep:
Emory
Henry
Morgan
Silva
Cann
Makubuya
Koevermans
Stinson
Cordon
Amarikwa
Lambe
Frei
Kocic
Williams
Lindsay
Roberts
Plata

Out:
Avila
Harden
Maund
Frings
Dunfield
F.Hall
J.Hall
Wiedeman

Maybe:
Johnson (trade bait)
Eckersley (keep if only he lowers his salary, getting paid to much for being an average player
Hassli (same as Ecks, not dp worthy)
O'Dea (same as Ecks)

DoubleUp
10-31-2012, 09:25 PM
A bit off topic, but we should try contacting Marc dos santos to see if he can send some players from Brazil to trial with us.

Yohan
10-31-2012, 09:46 PM
A bit off topic, but we should try contacting Marc dos santos to see if he can send some players from Brazil to trial with us.
Why would dos santos do that for tfc? If anything, he would give more help to mtl

DoubleUp
11-01-2012, 02:57 AM
Why would dos santos do that for tfc? If anything, he would give more help to mtl


Yes this is true but doesnt mean we shouldnt try. And its said that he resigned so there might be bad blood that we could capitalize on.


Regardless of who's in charge TFC has to be proactive, this club sits on it hands far to much. Mo wasnt the best guy, but I give him credit for trying to establish some sort relationship with south american clubs .

prizby
11-01-2012, 09:21 AM
i love everyone here playing fantasy manager...the fact of the matter is, its not what you would do...its what would PM do...so all those who are saying get rid of Aaron Maund; he's staying...PM see's him as a Jeff Larentowicz project

Initial B
11-01-2012, 09:38 AM
Agree with prizby: The only thing that matters to whether on not a player stays if is he was in Mariner's camp or not, regardless of talent level. The only reason a player who wasn't in that camp would stay is if he was a DP and couldn't be gotten rid of easily.

narduch
11-01-2012, 09:42 AM
I'm in agreement as well.

I can see all of the following being gone: Avila, Cann, Williams, Stinson, Makabuya, Cordon, Harden, Plata, Kocic.

Based on the season ending press conference I do think Silva, Hassli and Johnson might not be back.

Everyone else I expect to return.

ag futbol
11-01-2012, 09:55 AM
I don't think MDS -Mtl connection factors in at all. It's in his interest to open doors for players as a coach.

Judging from the recent TFC podcast though, it sounds like TFC is still beholden to its usual cast of shady agents who provide terrible players.

DichioTFC
11-01-2012, 10:36 AM
Didn't take long for the thread to get derailed, as predicted ;)

This thread isn't really supposed to be about who you *want* gone, but more about what's going to happen considering Mariner's suggestions / preferences. Obviously the team will not be blown up and there will be a core of players who will be back next year. The question is who stays, who starts, who's on the bench and how much money do we have left over. Also, is there potential for some of those players to be in the league (signing Hainault or Jakovic?)

DichioTFC
11-01-2012, 10:45 AM
Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.

Personally, I agree with you 100%. Dicoy is a very good defender and has grown up playing CONCACAF teams. His pace is questionable, but if he recovers well from his knee injury and is paired with a quicker CB (like Doneil Henry), there's a lot of potential for him to get 15-20 games. I see him as cover for O'Dea, but having a rotation role, especially if we drop to a 5 man defensive line to secure important games late. IMO, give him 2013 to prove himself and rebound from the injury. For the price we're paying, its more of an investment than a waste.

Ultra & Proud
11-01-2012, 10:52 AM
Also, is there potential for some of those players to be in the league (signing Hainault or Jakovic?)

I think so but I highly doubt either of these two players. I don't think Mariner is at all concerned with having any Canadian talent minus what we have already. Smartest thing I heard thus far was that he was scouting Scandinavia. That's a prime spot as there is talent there and the salaries are within a reasonable realm.

On to topic; I highly doubt Avila, Johnson, Cordon, Makubuya, Harden, Cann, or Kocic will return. I don't see them in Mariner's plans or in a reasonable price range for the bench spot they'd take up.

DichioTFC
11-01-2012, 11:03 AM
i love everyone here playing fantasy manager...the fact of the matter is, its not what you would do...its what would PM do...so all those who are saying get rid of Aaron Maund; he's staying...PM see's him as a Jeff Larentowicz project

Prizby's right, he probably is a long-term development project and I don't think PM gets rid of him. I edited the original post to include Maund and his $44K salary to the second group.

Moving forward, I assumed we need 6 new players to come in, and with only 5 spots remaining, that means the glut at forward needs to be reduced. There are three options IMO - Hassli ($350K), Ryan Johnson ($138K) and Wiedeman ($80K). Of the three, the only one that Mariner didn't bring in was Ryan Johnson and judging from his hesitancy at the season-end interview, I get the feeling there's more to this situation than we know on the surface.

As much as I love RJ, he's probably the one leaving if we keep Maund, which Prizby is right in thinking we probably will. PM seems like the type to take hard working players (Dunfield) over more talented ones (Avila). This also unfortunately means that he'll probably be keeping hardworking Wiedeman over more talented, but less driven Johnson.

If it all goes this way (RJ going out, Maund staying), we'll have $708K in allocation for 6 players. If we get a high-priced non-DP overseas player for ~$300K, we'll still have around $400K for the remaining 5 players - $80K / spot. To me, this is remarkable - I don't think in TFC's history have we ever had such good fiscal management.

DichioTFC
11-01-2012, 11:12 AM
I think so but I highly doubt either of these two players. I don't think Mariner is at all concerned with having any Canadian talent minus what we have already. Smartest thing I heard thus far was that he was scouting Scandinavia. That's a prime spot as there is talent there and the salaries are within a reasonable realm.

On to topic; I highly doubt Avila, Johnson, Cordon, Makubuya, Harden, Cann, or Kocic will return. I don't see them in Mariner's plans or in a reasonable price range for the bench spot they'd take up.

I get the feeling that PM supports having Canadian players. The first two players he signed to contract extensions were Ashtone and Doneil, although that could also have to do with the Academy more than anything else. If we can trade an outgoing player (Ryan Johnson) and a lower round draft pick to Houston or DCU for either Hainault ($150K) or Jakovic ($208K), it's a trade I would absolutely make. We can even argue to the league (which seems to influence these decisions) that having another Canadian on the team would be good for attendance and help soothe fan anger after the departure of DeRo.

I disagree with Avila. Letting him go would be as bad of a decision as trading Sam Cronin. You'll never get equal value since young, talented players are at such a premium in this league.

Ultra & Proud
11-01-2012, 12:13 PM
I get the feeling that PM supports having Canadian players. The first two players he signed to contract extensions were Ashtone and Doneil, although that could also have to do with the Academy more than anything else. If we can trade an outgoing player (Ryan Johnson) and a lower round draft pick to Houston or DCU for either Hainault ($150K) or Jakovic ($208K), it's a trade I would absolutely make. We can even argue to the league (which seems to influence these decisions) that having another Canadian on the team would be good for attendance and help soothe fan anger after the departure of DeRo.

I disagree with Avila. Letting him go would be as bad of a decision as trading Sam Cronin. You'll never get equal value since young, talented players are at such a premium in this league.

Hey you said a few posts ago that it wasn't about what we want but what we think Mariner will do :) . I say Avila is done here.

Not sure the fan anger would subside over Hainault or Jakovic. I bet minus the people on the supporters forums and the followers of the CMNT, most of the people in the stands, who make up the majority of the paying fan base, have no clue who these players are.

DichioTFC
11-01-2012, 12:21 PM
Hey you said a few posts ago that it wasn't about what we want but what we think Mariner will do :) . I say Avila is done here.

Not sure the fan anger would subside over Hainault or Jakovic. I bet minus the people on the supporters forums and the followers of the CMNT, most of the people in the stands, who make up the majority of the paying fan base, have no clue who these players are.

Lol fair enough. Personally, I don't think PM will get rid of Avila ;) but I can definitely understand your argument.

I didn't mean to say that fan anger *would* subside in reality, just to say that they can use that as a rationale in encouraging the league to approve the trade. Mariner can spin it pretty easily to the league - trading a high caliber Canadian player to Toronto would increase attendance.

Yohan
11-01-2012, 12:28 PM
I am on record few times asking how come a cb good for JNT not good for TFC? Unless he shares RJ view of Mariner of course.

Williams is a fringe player for Jamaica right now. Age 26, 9 caps. Although he was out with injury for a year. Williams also gets called up because Jamaica isn't exactly blessed with a lot of quality defenders.

Yohan
11-01-2012, 12:31 PM
KEEP: Danny Koevermans, Ashtone Morgan, Reggie Lambe, Luis Silva, Matt Stinson.

Everyone else would be in play if we can upgrade. Rationale: Koevermans when healthy is world-class; Morgan, Silva and Stinson all have the ability to play regularly already and great room for improvement; Lambe is a bargain for a winger of his quality.

Everyone else, and I mean everyone, should be in play for a better deal. I include Doneil Henry in that, as so far I'm not sure he's smart enough as a player for MLS. He probably will be eventually, but he isn't yet. Stinson might surprise someone but I think he's got a good football brain (ala Sam Cronin) and combined with decent techique that can go a long way. Silva actually isn't ready to be a two-way midfielder in this league as his defense and defensive movement in particular are very weak, but he's got great natural talent as an attacker and moves smartly around the box. We should move him into the role of hole player, winger (not wide midfielder, a true 'wing forward' winger) or striker.

One of reasons why I kept so many players in the 'keep' pile is because it's hard for any team to have such a big turnover rate without being able to adequately replace players. Esp with Mariner in charge, I don't have confidence that 6 discovery signings and trades within MLS (with relative low trade value for most of TFC players) is enough to field a competitive team next year if we go by your list.

Yohan
11-01-2012, 12:34 PM
I get the feeling that PM supports having Canadian players. The first two players he signed to contract extensions were Ashtone and Doneil, although that could also have to do with the Academy more than anything else. If we can trade an outgoing player (Ryan Johnson) and a lower round draft pick to Houston or DCU for either Hainault ($150K) or Jakovic ($208K), it's a trade I would absolutely make. We can even argue to the league (which seems to influence these decisions) that having another Canadian on the team would be good for attendance and help soothe fan anger after the departure of DeRo.

No freaking way Houston trades Hainault for anything less than a huge allocation plus a 1st rounder, or a player they absolutely can't refuse. Montreal tried to pull something in pre season and Houston wouldn't budge. Houston can use Ryan Johnson esp with Ching retiring, but RJ for Hainault, even with a draft pick is not a trade Kinnear would make. (and would be stupid to)

Jakovic is also highly rated by DC despite his injury proneness, and DC really don't have a need for another striker.

DichioTFC
11-01-2012, 01:49 PM
No freaking way Houston trades Hainault for anything less than a huge allocation plus a 1st rounder, or a player they absolutely can't refuse. Montreal tried to pull something in pre season and Houston wouldn't budge. Houston can use Ryan Johnson esp with Ching retiring, but RJ for Hainault, even with a draft pick is not a trade Kinnear would make. (and would be stupid to)

Jakovic is also highly rated by DC despite his injury proneness, and DC really don't have a need for another striker.

Would Houston refuse either Ryan Johnson and Eric Avila for Hainault and a rotation fullback? As much as I like both players going out, you're right about Houston needing to replace Ching and those two players are questionable under Mariner. Will Bruin can't shoulder the whole load next season. Also, Houston seems weak at central mid, and as Avila would be an instant upgrade of Moffat this makes sense to me. If we can get back Warren Creavalle ($44K), I would be happy with that.

starter
11-01-2012, 01:49 PM
Williams is a fringe player for Jamaica right now. Age 26, 9 caps. Although he was out with injury for a year. Williams also gets called up because Jamaica isn't exactly blessed with a lot of quality defenders.
My general point is he still gets called up, while JMNT is not being blown away as CMNT, and still Emory/Ecks gets to play over him. I view this as a personal dislike similar to the fate of Avila, Soolsma, Plata and JDG. I think RJ would have been there if we were not already so thin up front.

Yohan
11-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Would Houston refuse either Ryan Johnson and Eric Avila for Hainault and a rotation fullback? As much as I like both players going out, you're right about Houston needing to replace Ching and those two players are questionable under Mariner. Will Bruin can't shoulder the whole load next season. Also, Houston seems weak at central mid, and as Avila would be an instant upgrade of Moffat this makes sense to me. If we can get back Warren Creavalle ($44K), I would be happy with that.
Hainault is lynch pin for Houston defence along with Boswell, especially since Cameron got sold to Stoke City. Losing Hainault would be crippling to Houston's defence. Avila is AM, and Moffat is DM. Houston also plays 4-3-3 a lot with Davis, Colin Clark and Ricardo Clark, with Moffat, Barnes and Camargo for depth. Boniek Garcia adds the flair from RW who can play AM.

Houston don't need Avila. Certainly not worth losing Hainault over

Yohan
11-01-2012, 02:24 PM
My general point is he still gets called up, while JMNT is not being blown away as CMNT, and still Emory/Ecks gets to play over him. I view this as a personal dislike similar to the fate of Avila, Soolsma, Plata and JDG. I think RJ would have been there if we were not already so thin up front.

I haven't seen anything that says Williams is better than Emory.

starter
11-01-2012, 02:45 PM
I haven't seen anything that says Williams is better than Emory.

You could perhaps start to compare what Emory can do with the ball vs Williams, like hoofing it forward vs keeping it on the ground, and waiting for an outlet.

prizby
11-01-2012, 02:46 PM
Moving forward, I assumed we need 6 new players to come in, and with only 5 spots remaining, that means the glut at forward needs to be reduced. There are three options IMO - Hassli ($350K), Ryan Johnson ($138K) and Wiedeman ($80K). Of the three, the only one that Mariner didn't bring in was Ryan Johnson and judging from his hesitancy at the season-end interview, I get the feeling there's more to this situation than we know on the surface.
.

weedman will be gone, but we don't get 80k off the cap if he leaves; he was free this year as he was still generation addidas...think RJ9 did his best to talk himself out of Toronto; any takers and what would we get in return?...I really think Mariner will have a tough time getting rid of Hassli because then he'd have to explain why he's given up the likely first pick in the draft in 2014 and an international spot for the 2013 year; but i guess he's "very good" at his job right?

prizby
11-01-2012, 02:47 PM
Hainault is lynch pin for Houston defence along with Boswell, especially since Cameron got sold to Stoke City. Losing Hainault would be crippling to Houston's defence. Avila is AM, and Moffat is DM. Houston also plays 4-3-3 a lot with Davis, Colin Clark and Ricardo Clark, with Moffat, Barnes and Camargo for depth. Boniek Garcia adds the flair from RW who can play AM.

Houston don't need Avila. Certainly not worth losing Hainault over

yet hainault was on the bench last night? Couldn't figure that one out

prizby
11-01-2012, 02:49 PM
My general point is he still gets called up, while JMNT is not being blown away as CMNT, and still Emory/Ecks gets to play over him. I view this as a personal dislike similar to the fate of Avila, Soolsma, Plata and JDG. I think RJ would have been there if we were not already so thin up front.

the issue with williams isn't so much his ability or his salary or anything to do on the field...it has to do with you have a limited number of international roster spots and do you want someone who clearly isn't going to see the field that often (under Mariner) holding down an international roster spot

Yohan
11-01-2012, 02:53 PM
You could perhaps start to compare what Emory can do with the ball vs Williams, like hoofing it forward vs keeping it on the ground, and waiting for an outlet.

actually, Emory is quite a good short passer. better than Williams (who I think is slightly better than avg CB at passing the ball)

Mariner encourages hoofball. So his players play hoofball. is that really player's fault for doing what his coach tells him to do?

Yohan
11-01-2012, 03:00 PM
yet hainault was on the bench last night? Couldn't figure that one out

that, I don't know, considering Hainault played in Houston's game vs Colorado last Sat. Only reason I see is Hainault is being rested, or he picked up a minor knock before the game. Interesting. He didn't play in 3 out of 4 of Houston's last games. Unless Kinnear is worried about Hainault's mental game after such a shocking performance vs Honduras

starter
11-01-2012, 03:09 PM
actually, Emory is quite a good short passer. better than Williams (who I think is slightly better than avg CB at passing the ball)

Mariner encourages hoofball. So his players play hoofball. is that really player's fault for doing what his coach tells him to do?

I am not expecting Emory to smarten up, if Mariner ever asks him to though.

KGH
11-01-2012, 03:10 PM
actually, Emory is quite a good short passer. better than Williams (who I think is slightly better than avg CB at passing the ball)

Mariner encourages hoofball. So his players play hoofball. is that really player's fault for doing what his coach tells him to do?

You're comparing guys that play different roles on the backline. Emory is good to keep as cover for both the LB and Left CB. Williams is only good cover for Right CB.

I'm OK with keeping both. And they're pretty Cap friendly.

DichioTFC
11-02-2012, 10:38 AM
weedman will be gone, but we don't get 80k off the cap if he leaves; he was free this year as he was still generation addidas...think RJ9 did his best to talk himself out of Toronto; any takers and what would we get in return?...I really think Mariner will have a tough time getting rid of Hassli because then he'd have to explain why he's given up the likely first pick in the draft in 2014 and an international spot for the 2013 year; but i guess he's "very good" at his job right?

I get the feeling that if he's still a cap hit, Mariner would keep him. I can't see PM admitting failure in the JDG trade and getting rid of the only asset from the trade.

I would hate to see Johnson go. Although his strike rate was a bit low, his potential to score great goals is clear. But I do get the feeling he's not happy here and hasn't been for awhile. Watching him in person, his body language on turnovers and on dumb plays showed his frustration. He probably has a club option year left on his contract, so I'd wonder if he could block the club from exercising that option. Chivas could use a striker to replace Juan Pablo Angel, I'd wonder if they'd be interested. I wouldn't mind getting Ante Jazic ($118K) in return even if he's near retirement.

I'm 50:50 on Hassli. If we get rid of Johnson, he has to stay, but I would really like him to take a small pay cut to stay so we can free up that DP spot. He was on a front loaded contract, but his guaranteed compensation last year was $790K. Not sure how Mariner can work the contract for it to be under $350K excluding bonuses. Even if we can't work that out and he's still our third DP, I wouldn't oppose a Koevermans / Hassli partnership up top, or Hassli providing cover for Koevermans late in the season.

DichioTFC
11-02-2012, 10:49 AM
the issue with williams isn't so much his ability or his salary or anything to do on the field...it has to do with you have a limited number of international roster spots and do you want someone who clearly isn't going to see the field that often (under Mariner) holding down an international roster spot

We can always trade a depth player for an international spot if need be, but your point is well taken. From what I've seen of Dicoy for club and country, and it has been limited, I would be fine keeping him even in a depth role. Strong CBs like him are a valuable asset in this league, from an in-game standpoint but also for trade bait.

DichioTFC
11-02-2012, 10:53 AM
that, I don't know, considering Hainault played in Houston's game vs Colorado last Sat. Only reason I see is Hainault is being rested, or he picked up a minor knock before the game. Interesting. He didn't play in 3 out of 4 of Houston's last games. Unless Kinnear is worried about Hainault's mental game after such a shocking performance vs Honduras

I get the feeling Hainault is being rested, but for the right value I feel he could be open to a trade. Btw, you're right about him being a lynchpin, 104 MLS games played, 100 started. Houston's asking price might be too high then?

nonc
11-02-2012, 06:51 PM
I
Based on the season ending press conference I do think Silva, Hassli and Johnson might not be back.


Good grief, why wouldn't Silva be back. With our first rounder gone in 2014 and Mariner distancing himself from the Academy, i don't see this happening, especially since he was inclined to start him.
* * *
There is some wishful thinking going on here, let's not forget how many undesirables are sitting on money. I'm not sure Mariner can afford to release them all.

Also, O'Dea is going nowhere. TFC finally get a CB with a pedigree why would they want to remove him and face the daunting task of acquiring 2 new CBs? O'Dea is not great for the money but considering players are coming from a Mariner/Cochrane collaboration, i'll take it. Could be a lot worse. Eck is a bigger black hole of money if the intention is to keep playing him out of position. Ideally we try and sell him back to Championship or comparable.

Johnson is a waste at FW, his mobility is deceptively meaningless. At the end of the day he does not score goals or create enough for his teammates. Status quo on DPs may be just fine, Hassli is only 31 and good with his feet, Silva just behind him and Koev could easily work. They also provide insulation for injury since they're almost interchangeable. Johnson cannot carry an offense when called upon.

imo the biggest need is a proven two-way, playmaking MF to support Frings and takeover the middle of the field in 2014.

ag futbol
11-02-2012, 11:02 PM
Johnson is a waste at FW, his mobility is deceptively meaningless. At the end of the day he does not score goals or create enough for his teammates. Status quo on DPs may be just fine, Hassli is only 31 and good with his feet, Silva just behind him and Koev could easily work. They also provide insulation for injury since they're almost interchangeable. Johnson cannot carry an offense when called upon.

I think when you boil it down, Johnson is just not consistent enough to be a starter for a playoff MLS team.

Misses too many chances and when he actually was in his preferred spot in a three forward system he wouldn't move the ball well. We'd have guys streaking in who would be clear on goal if they received the simple pass but RJ was always head-down, going for it himself.

olo114
11-02-2012, 11:26 PM
Evan James got released , he would be somebody i would invite to camp to see what he has to offer.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=408674

Alonso
11-02-2012, 11:40 PM
I posted this in another thread and forgive me if it's been discussed here already. (Ihaven't read the whole thread yet.)

I think this post is relevant here as well:


Also as a side note. I'm to lazy to dig it up... but concerning the young DP rule, is that in addition to 3 DP's, or, within the 3 DP's. Is it 1 young DP per team or up to 3? etc....

If it's up to 3 young DP's per team... TFC needs a booster shot injection of that. Start with 2. Then after Koevs is done add a 3rd.

Forget Hasli, forget Frings. Get two young up and coming South American forward studs on the cheap with this rule. ML$E would have to spend there money big time, but it would be better for the cap and allow us to add a solid MLSer at $300,000 in exchange for Hasli and Frings, all at the same salary cap hit while still having 3 dp's.

Great way to extract an extra $300,000 in salary cap space and a potent move from ML$E in these tough times.

Am I out to lunch?

TFC needs to pounce on this rule change.

nonc
11-03-2012, 06:35 AM
Evan James got released , he would be somebody i would invite to camp to see what he has to offer.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=408674

not impressed with James, TFC Academy already has better forwards.



I posted this in another thread and forgive me if it's been discussed here already. (Ihaven't read the whole thread yet.)

I think this post is relevant here as well:


Also as a side note. I'm to lazy to dig it up... but concerning the young DP rule, is that in addition to 3 DP's, or, within the 3 DP's. Is it 1 young DP per team or up to 3? etc....

If it's up to 3 young DP's per team... TFC needs a booster shot injection of that. Start with 2. Then after Koevs is done add a 3rd.

Forget Hasli, forget Frings. Get two young up and coming South American forward studs on the cheap with this rule. ML$E would have to spend there money big time, but it would be better for the cap and allow us to add a solid MLSer at $300,000 in exchange for Hasli and Frings, all at the same salary cap hit while still having 3 dp's.

Great way to extract an extra $300,000 in salary cap space and a potent move from ML$E in these tough times.

Am I out to lunch?

TFC needs to pounce on this rule change.

I'd kill to have a U23 injection of: South American, Central American, Japanese, Mexican.

Ultra & Proud
11-03-2012, 09:27 AM
I posted this in another thread and forgive me if it's been discussed here already. (Ihaven't read the whole thread yet.)

I think this post is relevant here as well:


Also as a side note. I'm to lazy to dig it up... but concerning the young DP rule, is that in addition to 3 DP's, or, within the 3 DP's. Is it 1 young DP per team or up to 3? etc....

If it's up to 3 young DP's per team... TFC needs a booster shot injection of that. Start with 2. Then after Koevs is done add a 3rd.

Forget Hasli, forget Frings. Get two young up and coming South American forward studs on the cheap with this rule. ML$E would have to spend there money big time, but it would be better for the cap and allow us to add a solid MLSer at $300,000 in exchange for Hasli and Frings, all at the same salary cap hit while still having 3 dp's.

Great way to extract an extra $300,000 in salary cap space and a potent move from ML$E in these tough times.

Am I out to lunch?

TFC needs to pounce on this rule change.
Problem is that South American players are unreliable in MLS. It's a total crap shoot as to whether they pan out. For every Montero there are a few Denilsons and Vittis. I am all good for aiming for players from down there but I feel getting more than one on DP deal is just too risky.

PozeshnMatters
11-03-2012, 09:30 AM
personally i find this thread amusing in that so many people are assuming a return of Frings and Koevermans. who did they think they were coming to play for again? what style of football were they expecting to be playing? does anyone think either of them are impressed (as professionals) by "no frills football", or by a raving lunatic on the sidelines? i'd be interested to see what kind of "out" clauses their contracts have. dunno if others have stated this already, but i'm predicting we don't see Frings or Koevermans in a TFC jersey ever again.

Ultra & Proud
11-03-2012, 09:32 AM
Shavar Thomas is going to be in the re-entry draft now. It'll be interesting to see who else will be available. I think we need to hit that draft hard. Hopefully some solid MLSers are available.

prizby
11-03-2012, 09:58 AM
I get the feeling that if he's still a cap hit, Mariner would keep him. I can't see PM admitting failure in the JDG trade and getting rid of the only asset from the trade.

I would hate to see Johnson go. Although his strike rate was a bit low, his potential to score great goals is clear. But I do get the feeling he's not happy here and hasn't been for awhile. Watching him in person, his body language on turnovers and on dumb plays showed his frustration. He probably has a club option year left on his contract, so I'd wonder if he could block the club from exercising that option. Chivas could use a striker to replace Juan Pablo Angel, I'd wonder if they'd be interested. I wouldn't mind getting Ante Jazic ($118K) in return even if he's near retirement.

I'm 50:50 on Hassli. If we get rid of Johnson, he has to stay, but I would really like him to take a small pay cut to stay so we can free up that DP spot. He was on a front loaded contract, but his guaranteed compensation last year was $790K. Not sure how Mariner can work the contract for it to be under $350K excluding bonuses. Even if we can't work that out and he's still our third DP, I wouldn't oppose a Koevermans / Hassli partnership up top, or Hassli providing cover for Koevermans late in the season.

weed man is in the same catch as merosivic last year...he'll have to take a significant pay decrease to stay; see if he says yes to something merosevic said no to

prizby
11-03-2012, 09:59 AM
We can always trade a depth player for an international spot if need be, but your point is well taken. From what I've seen of Dicoy for club and country, and it has been limited, I would be fine keeping him even in a depth role. Strong CBs like him are a valuable asset in this league, from an in-game standpoint but also for trade bait.

what depth player would someone want off our roster for a valued international spot...

Yohan
11-03-2012, 07:21 PM
Following players take up int spots
-Eckersley
-Frings
-Freddy Hall
-Hassli
-Koevermans
-Lambe
-O'Dea
-Williams
-Plata

Johnson, Frei and Kocic have green cards or US citizenship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_International_Roster_Slots

So if TFC wants to sign more foreign players, either have to release/trade some int spot players or acquire int spots from another team

nonc
11-04-2012, 01:07 AM
after years of toiling, David Edgar was finally getting regular minutes for Burnley at CB until a caretaker manager takeover, now he's not being used again. his future seems unclear. not sure if he'd want to play for TFC or in the MLS but he'd be a worthwhile DP @ about $1,250,000.

[NBF]
11-04-2012, 08:20 AM
after years of toiling, David Edgar was finally getting regular minutes for Burnley at CB until a caretaker manager takeover, now he's not being used again. his future seems unclear. not sure if he'd want to play for TFC or in the MLS but he'd be a worthwhile DP @ about $1,250,000.

I looked up Saturdays game, Wolves vs Burnley, and David Edgar played the entire game, but I'm not sure if he was used as a central midfield like it says on yahoo.uk. Regardless, he still played the entire game.

prizby
11-04-2012, 08:30 AM
Following players take up int spots
-Eckersley
-Frings
-Freddy Hall
-Hassli
-Koevermans
-Lambe
-O'Dea
-Williams
-Plata

Johnson, Frei and Kocic have green cards or US citizenship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_International_Roster_Slots

So if TFC wants to sign more foreign players, either have to release/trade some int spot players or acquire int spots from another team

Freddy Hall lived in America for 9 years; pretty sure he has a green card

nonc
11-04-2012, 06:50 PM
;1541060']I looked up Saturdays game, Wolves vs Burnley, and David Edgar played the entire game, but I'm not sure if he was used as a central midfield like it says on yahoo.uk. Regardless, he still played the entire game.

good news. i didn't know about the most recent game, but leading up it seemed like he was on the outside looking in.

prizby
11-05-2012, 11:39 AM
good news. i didn't know about the most recent game, but leading up it seemed like he was on the outside looking in.

he's been a starter all year long...he isn't going to leave europe even if he lost his place at burnley

nonc
11-05-2012, 08:33 PM
he's been a starter all year long...he isn't going to leave europe even if he lost his place at burnley

that's why even if the situation was bad (which it's not), i remained skeptical of his interest in MLS as per my post.

although starting can't be the best judge, Robson owned The Championship before coming to Whitecaps.

Yohan
11-05-2012, 08:41 PM
that's why even if the situation was bad (which it's not), i remained skeptical of his interest in MLS as per my post.

although starting can't be the best judge, Robson owned The Championship before coming to Whitecaps.
Robson played half a season. he really sucks if he bombs next season too. some players take a while to get used to MLS

prizby
11-05-2012, 10:02 PM
that's why even if the situation was bad (which it's not), i remained skeptical of his interest in MLS as per my post.

although starting can't be the best judge, Robson owned The Championship before coming to Whitecaps.

Robson was 33 and had played his part in the UK soccer scene...he'd be almost 35 before his first opportunity to play in the premier league, if his club got promoted; he saw the writing on the wall; he'd never be a premier league player...Edgar is 25 and has many years a head of him...comparing the two is not a fair comparison...playing in MLS is a fallback for the North American players over in Europe

nonc
11-06-2012, 01:49 AM
Robson played half a season. he really sucks if he bombs next season too. some players take a while to get used to MLS

buut...Robson was good for the Whitecaps. He's better than MLS-Frings and i don't think many would say Frings overall performance has been terrible.

[NBF]
11-10-2012, 07:39 PM
IMO, the reason why Barry Robson and Kenny Miller failed in Vancouver was the field turf. They just weren't used to that type of playing surface. They will be gone though.

Ultra & Proud
11-30-2012, 11:17 AM
;1541843']IMO, the reason why Barry Robson and Kenny Miller failed in Vancouver was the field turf. They just weren't used to that type of playing surface. They will be gone though.
I thought Robson was pretty good actually, for him anyway. I expected little and never saw him as a legit DP.

Miller is overrated crap. Had one real good season with Rangers and then all shite. He is the Scottish Chad Barrett although his misses are even more aggravating. Saw him blow 3 sitters in the Celtic Cup last year in Dublin. Scotland should have had that match in the bag if only he could finish at all. Instead I got to see Keane doing his back flip thing. Terrible.

West220Side
12-03-2012, 06:04 PM
Thought id come here and just run through the state of our roster and whats on our mind. Basically I feel like soon we're going to be at a good group of players those players would be...

Stefan Frei (GK) $120,000 $175,000
Milos Kocic (GK) $44,100 $44,100
Quillan Roberts (GK) $33,750 $33,750
Richard Eckersley (DEF) $210,000 $390,000
Logan Emory (DEF) $44,000 $44,000
Darren O'dea (DEF) $330,000 $436,250
Doneil Henry (DEF) $44,100 $45,100
Ashtone Morgan (DEF) $44,000 $56,000
Luis Silva (MID) $44,000 $79,000
Eric Avila (MID) $125,000 $158,000
Terry Dunfield (MID) $86,000 $86,000
Matt Stinson (MID) $44,000 $44,000
Reggie Lambe (MID) $60,000 $62,500
Joao Plata (MID) $50,000 $50,000
Justin Braun (FWD) $
Quincy Amarikwa (FWD) $44,100 $44,100
Eric Hassli (FWD) + (DP) $550,000 $790,000
Ryan Johnson (FWD) $137,813 $137,813


That leaves us with eighteen players. That's 3 goalkeepers, 5 defenders, 6 midfielders, 4 forwards. I think if we build up on this group of players we might have a solid season if you throw in the addition of players like a solid defender to partner O'dea, and a general midfielder from MLS.

I left out players like... trade or buy them out.

Jeremy Hall (DEF) $100,000 $149,000
Andrew Weideman (FWD) $80,000 $123,000
Torsten Frings (MID) + (DP) - I just feel that even though he may have been playing injured he went from being a class above everybody on the pitch to just looking old and getting burned.
Danny Koevermans (FWD) + (DP) - The fact that he may or may not come back healthy and in goal scoring form is to much of a 'maybe' to gamble on.
Freddy Hall - Why on earth do we need four goalkeepers? Quillan Roberts has absolutely 0% chance of getting any playing time and growing as a player. $44,100 $44,100


You need to definitely build on that group of 18 players, mostly in the midfield and defence before the season starts. Then maybe if we have trouble finding goals take one of those designated player spots we'll have, and spend it on a player in europe.

ensco
12-03-2012, 06:22 PM
^Asking MLSE to eat $4 million on Frings on Koevermans is tough. Payne is unlikely to want to have that conversation. Easier to just let them play out next year.

Payne hasn't promised much for 2013, and doesn't need to spend big incremental dollars next year.

Pookie
12-03-2012, 06:42 PM
MLS is pretty specific in that you can only buy out one guaranteed contract during the year. If you do it in the offseason there is no budget charge.

You can waive as many as you want but they still count against your budget if they have guaranteed contracts. If you are over 24 and have 3 years in the MLS, you have a guaranteed contract. Semi guaranteed guys must be waived before July 1st to have their budget not count.

Jeremy Hall in guaranteed territory but I believe TFC did not exercise his contract option.

Wiedeman has 1 more year on his Generation Adidas contract. He incurs no budget charge.

Not sure about the status of Freddy. I suspect semi guaranteed.

prizby
12-04-2012, 12:12 PM
MLS is pretty specific in that you can only buy out one guaranteed contract during the year. If you do it in the offseason there is no budget charge.

You can waive as many as you want but they still count against your budget if they have guaranteed contracts. If you are over 24 and have 3 years in the MLS, you have a guaranteed contract. Semi guaranteed guys must be waived before July 1st to have their budget not count.

Jeremy Hall in guaranteed territory but I believe TFC did not exercise his contract option.

Wiedeman has 1 more year on his Generation Adidas contract. He incurs no budget charge.

Not sure about the status of Freddy. I suspect semi guaranteed.

no he graduates after 3 years, but has 1 (i thought maybe 2) option years, on his contract that do count against the cap if picked up

DichioTFC
12-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Bumping this with updated information. Our salary cap situation honestly looks pretty damn good. With the SuperDraft coming up, our draft picks will be no more than league minimum cap hits (if they're GA players, they'll essentially be "free" under the cap). This leaves a lot of flexibility.

Interesting to note that moving Ryan Johnson out and bringing in Justin Braun only saved $45K. Assuming Portland's first round pick is being paid the league minimum (as all non-GA rookies are), its perfectly balanced from a fiscal perspective.

Six spots left, assuming Eric Avila and Jeremy Hall still remain (only two remaining question marks for me, although I would prefer to keep Avila and trade Hall ASAP I'm sure Mariner and Payne have it vice versa). If we keep those two, plus sign two draft picks (assuming neither is GA), it leaves us four spots and $622K. We could sign another O'Dea-type non-DP max contract for a talented player and still have $270K remaining for three spots ($90K / per spot). Like I said before, our salary cap situation looks pretty damn good.

DichioTFC
12-12-2012, 04:53 PM
^ EDIT: Avila is most likely not going to be in Toronto next year and F. Hall is gone according to Larson.

If we sign the non-GA rookies, our cap looks to be around $660K with 6 spots remaining. Still looks good, but there are a lot of spaces to fill. No point in letting cap space go to waste.

Soccerpro
12-12-2012, 09:41 PM
Justin Braun is making over 100+ a year. The Impact and RSL didn't see anything in him. TFC decides to take a chance on him. Fine, no problem. BUT FOR OVER 100K A YEAR??????????? Come on!! He is the 7th highest paid player on the roster!!1

These are the type of things that kill Toronto. YOU CAN'T OVERPAY FOR MEDIOCRE CRAPPY TALENT

Yohan
12-14-2012, 04:39 PM
Now at 21 players w/ Califf

Morlesio14
12-14-2012, 05:02 PM
How many players do we need and how much cap space do we have? Any standouts on who we should mabye pursue?

Yohan
12-14-2012, 05:21 PM
How many players do we need and how much cap space do we have? Any standouts on who we should mabye pursue?

I calculate using current salary list with 21 players at 2.8 mil using minimum salary figures. Now only top 20 salary counts, and we don't know what the new contract is for Morgan, Hall, Henry, Califf and Wiedeman. Add in a bit of allocation money, and TFC still has a little bit of wiggle room (cap for 2013 is 2.95 mil). Likely TFC will add a GA player from draft, maybe two players from overseas in Jan. I expect couple of min wage players to fill out the roster. Ideally I'd like to see 28 players, but I think minimum is 25 players going into pre season

DoubleUp
12-14-2012, 05:30 PM
Justin Braun is making over 100+ a year. The Impact and RSL didn't see anything in him. TFC decides to take a chance on him. Fine, no problem. BUT FOR OVER 100K A YEAR??????????? Come on!! He is the 7th highest paid player on the roster!!1

These are the type of things that kill Toronto. YOU CAN'T OVERPAY FOR MEDIOCRE CRAPPY TALENT

The saga continues! along with the complete lack of any real scouting.

Yohan
12-14-2012, 07:45 PM
Depth chart 14 Dec

----------------------GK
----------------------Frei
---------------------Bendik
--------------------Roberts
RB------------CB---------CB--------LB
Eckersley----Califf------O'Dea-----Morgan
Hall----------Henry-----Emory-------?
RM----------DM----------CM--------LM
Lambe------Frings-------Silva------Plata
?------------Dunfield------?----------?
?------------Stinson-------?----------?
------------ST--------------ST
-------Koevermans------Hassli
----------Braun--------Wiedeman
--------Amarikwa-----------?

Morlesio14
12-14-2012, 09:50 PM
Very well done image, probably going to sign or draft some wingers. Did you hear about Guevara?? Rumors linked to TFC. Could mentor silva at CAM

Morlesio14
12-14-2012, 09:51 PM
Very well done image, probably going to sign or draft some wingers. Did you hear about Guevara?? Rumors linked to TFC. Could mentor silva at CAM?

Soccerpro
12-15-2012, 11:38 AM
Our midfield is still a disaster..

mcolvy
12-15-2012, 11:42 AM
agreed. We need wide midfielders, though I dont know what Mariner is looking for in a wi(e)deman (teeheee wiedeman reference... punny). We had just about every sort of player out there, and let go or traded away any actual wingers we have... We have Lambe.... wiedeman is more striker then winger.
Plata is a striker in a 4-4-2...... (he kinda only is effective in a 4-3-3......... woops).

I want to drop some names, but I dont know what Mariner truly wants. Are our wingers just going to tuck in as central midfielders, playing very narrow football... Houston esc....

Yohan
12-15-2012, 12:08 PM
agreed. We need wide midfielders, though I dont know what Mariner is looking for in a wi(e)deman (teeheee wiedeman reference... punny). We had just about every sort of player out there, and let go or traded away any actual wingers we have... We have Lambe.... wiedeman is more striker then winger.
Plata is a striker in a 4-4-2...... (he kinda only is effective in a 4-3-3......... woops).

I want to drop some names, but I dont know what Mariner truly wants. Are our wingers just going to tuck in as central midfielders, playing very narrow football... Houston esc....

right now TFC's best formation based upon lack of wingers is 4-3-1-2 or 4-4-2 diamond with Mariner's preference for 2 strikers up top.

but I think to get max out of Toronto's current squad, 4-3-3 may be the best since Plata is only good as wide forward and Silva is only good at AM role since he's not very good defensively.

and no good asking Silva to play CM since he's got good finishing ability so he's more adept as kind of a trequartista role.

still a lot of off season to go though. speculation on formation may change pending on who KP brings in/draft

Rudi
12-15-2012, 12:33 PM
Our midfield is still a disaster..
Agreed. Everything needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW!!!

Soccerpro
12-15-2012, 02:52 PM
Agreed. Everything needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW!!!

It appears you're making fun of me with my comment. I didn't say it needed to be fixed right now. I just said it was a disaster, which it is.

Lambe - Frings - Dunfield - Plata

That's the formation right now. Good lord. Weakest midfield in MLS by a mile. That's just with the hope Frings isn't even slower this year.

Morlesio14
12-15-2012, 03:07 PM
I'd rather have the midfield in a diamond. I suspect Payne will bring in some players to help improve our midfield, but from now here it is.
Frings = CDM
Lambe, Plata = RM, LM
Silva = CAM

DichioTFC
12-15-2012, 03:56 PM
Updated to include Califf.

We still have space under the cap, but I'm very surprised with how much Califf was making. I was budgeting $300K for a CB upgrade, but not sure if Califf is the answer. He's getting paid starter money, but has rotation talent IMO. Still an upgrade over what we had last year and maybe a partnership with O'Dea will be a good solution, but right now we have over $1M invested in our backline (including Hall and whatever salary increases are given to Morgan and Henry). That means over 33% of our salary is invested in 6 players.

It seems like Payne and Mariner are putting themselves into a corner on this one. If the Califf-O'Dea partnership doesn't pan out, we're not going to have much to fall back on. Not to mention what an injury crisis could do to our backline.

Wooster_TFC
12-15-2012, 04:31 PM
Updated to include Califf.

We still have space under the cap, but I'm very surprised with how much Califf was making. I was budgeting $300K for a CB upgrade, but not sure if Califf is the answer. He's getting paid starter money, but has rotation talent IMO. Still an upgrade over what we had last year and maybe a partnership with O'Dea will be a good solution, but right now we have over $1M invested in our backline (including Hall and whatever salary increases are given to Morgan and Henry). That means over 33% of our salary is invested in 6 players.

It seems like Payne and Mariner are putting themselves into a corner on this one. If the Califf-O'Dea partnership doesn't pan out, we're not going to have much to fall back on. Not to mention what an injury crisis could do to our backline.

There's no way Califf is signed for what he was paid last season. If that were the case, they would have taken him in the first round.

DichioTFC
12-15-2012, 04:49 PM
^ Very true, i should've updated my post after I realized this.

Still, I get the feeling Califf is making at least $200K.

prizby
12-15-2012, 06:20 PM
After being in absentia for a bit, I wanted to start looking forward to 2013 and see what improvements can be made to this team. After listening to the year end interviews, it would appears the players and PM are in agreement that we're close to making the playoffs, which I personally agree. Obviously there's some roster attrition but there's enough talent for some starting spots and some depth that we can use moving forward. No need for an absolute overhaul, again, in my opinion and apparently in PM's opinion as well. So that leaves the question, where do we go from here?

Using the most recent salary information from the Players Union - http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/October 1, 2012 Salary Information - By Club.pdf - these are the salaries of players currently on the roster, organized by biggest salary cap hit (the furthest column is their actual salary for 2012 with annualized bonuses included).

Roster No.
Last Name
First Name
Position
Cap Hit
Total Salary


1
Frings
Torsten
M
$367,000
$2,413,667


2
Hassli
Eric
F
$367,000
$790,000


3
Koevermans
Danny
F
$367,000
$1,563,323


4
O'Dea
Darren
D
$330,000
$436,250


5
Califf
Danny
D
$275,000
$275,000


6
Eckersley
Richard
D
$210,000
$390,000


7
Frei
Stefan
GK
$120,000
$175,000


8
Braun
Justin
F
$102,000
$104,500


9
Hall
Jeremy
D
$100,000
$149,000


10
Dunfield
Terry
M
$86,000
$86,000


11
Wiedeman
Andrew
F
$80,000
$123,000


12
Lambe
Reggie
M
$60,000
$62,500


13
Plata
Joao
F
$50,000
$50,000


14







15







16







17







18







19







20















21
Henry
Doneil
D
$44,100
$45,100


22
Morgan
Ashtone
D
$44,000
$56,000


23
Silva
Luis
M
$44,000
$79,000


24
Amarikwa
Quincy
F
$44,000
$44,100


25
Bendik
Joe
GK
$44,000
$44,000


26
Emory
Logan
D
$44,000
$44,000


27
Stinson
Matthew
M
$44,000
$44,000


28
Roberts
Quillan
GK
$33,750
$33,750


29
cap space


-$35,000



30
cap space


-$35,000





sorry, but cap hit is not based on base salary; its somewhere in between guaranteed and base

did dp cap hit go up to 367k this year?
believe minimum salary goes up to 46k this year

Luanda
01-18-2013, 11:28 AM
So with the addition of Julio Cesar and the 2 young Canucks, we now have 4 spots left.
Can we have an update on the cap implications of these additions, plus the allocation money that came TFCs way yesterday?

Edit: sorry, I forgot Agbossoumonde - so that leaves 3 spots.

Greatest Ripoff
01-18-2013, 11:45 AM
You can remove amarikwa from that list as well. Larsen reported a few weeks ago he would not be back in 2013.

Luanda
01-18-2013, 04:48 PM
You can remove amarikwa from that list as well. Larsen reported a few weeks ago he would not be back in 2013.


If that is the case, Wiedeman is probably next given his absurd salary.

Soccerpro
01-18-2013, 07:27 PM
If that is the case, Wiedeman is probably next given his absurd salary.

Wiedeman, or Hall, or Ecks, or basically anyone in the upper half of the payrolls have absurd salaries.

Ajax TFC
01-18-2013, 07:36 PM
Weren't Wiedeman and Hall resigned after Payne was hired? If so, I imagine they were forced to take significant pay cuts. Still though, I'd rather not have Wiedeman at all. The guy is a complete waste of space on the field

Luanda
02-04-2013, 01:22 PM
We are in need of an update on this issue, please.

jloome
02-04-2013, 02:10 PM
We are in need of an update on this issue, please.

I've probably mentioned this to you before but I lived in Luanda for eight years. I miss it often.

CBTFC
02-04-2013, 03:14 PM
We are in need of an update on this issue, please.

Yeah, it is a little frusturating to not have any idea of how much cap space we have. Though I would guess with all the trades KP made on draft day, plus both the Plata and Hassli trades, that we have at least 500k if not more.

Luanda
02-04-2013, 07:49 PM
I've probably mentioned this to you before but I lived in Luanda for eight years. I miss it often.

Depending on when that was, if you went there now you would either love it or hate it. It is an extremely expensive, bustling at the seems, construction everywhere megapolis of over 5 million people.

I lived in Edmonton for a few years. I can not say I miss it, but I do miss the friends I made and still have there.

Yohan
02-05-2013, 01:17 AM
We are in need of an update on this issue, please.
Hell, we need an update from the club. Like, is Amarikwa still with the club? Has Welshman actually been signed to a contract?

Rudi
02-05-2013, 11:43 AM
is Amarikwa still with the club? Has Welshman actually been signed to a contract?
No. Yes.

Yohan
02-05-2013, 11:49 AM
No. Yes.
thanks. do you know anything about supplemental draft picks being signed?

jloome
02-05-2013, 11:57 AM
Depending on when that was, if you went there now you would either love it or hate it. It is an extremely expensive, bustling at the seems, construction everywhere megapolis of over 5 million people.

I lived in Edmonton for a few years. I can not say I miss it, but I do miss the friends I made and still have there.

Lived there from 80-88. Loved the people and the country, hated the situation, the poverty, barrio life for locals. I was a kid, so I didn't feel especially guilty as the kid of an petrofina manager to be living the colonial high life. But as I got older, the rank corruption, the soviets draining the country, the suffering -- all surrounded by this beautiful city, amazing country and nicest people on the planet -- was a lot to take at times.

So what you're describing at least sounds like progress of a sort. That's almost double the population in the city from when I was there, although I imagine landmine problem everywhere else has something to do with that.

You can still find old pictures of the southern cities from before the war. It's a shame that the Portugese, like most colonialists, were such bastards, holding down the population to maintain control for decades instead of affording them liberty through growth and education, then wisely leaving quietly.

Sorry all, off topic. Don't run into people from Angola too often!

Rudi
02-05-2013, 12:18 PM
thanks. do you know anything about supplemental draft picks being signed?

Unfortunately not.

Stouffville_RPB
04-16-2013, 08:35 AM
Looks like the wrong keeper was traded to Portland.

Having Kocic's salary sitting on the bench would be a much easier pill to swallow than Frei's. With all the moves for allocation at the draft it appears as though the $50,000 or so between Frei and Kocic's salaries would've been big heading into the season. Of course it's too late to do anything about that now.

TFC always seem to have quality keepers but there is almost no trade value in keepers in the league.

Yohan
04-16-2013, 08:52 AM
Looks like the wrong keeper was traded to Portland.

Having Kocic's salary sitting on the bench would be a much easier pill to swallow than Frei's. With all the moves for allocation at the draft it appears as though the $50,000 or so between Frei and Kocic's salaries would've been big heading into the season. Of course it's too late to do anything about that now.

TFC always seem to have quality keepers but there is almost no trade value in keepers in the league.
Hindsight... And I doubt Portland would have taken Frei at his salary when they have Ricketts on 200k wage. That's too much money to spend on GKs

PopePouri
04-16-2013, 09:02 AM
Looks like the wrong keeper was traded to Portland.

Having Kocic's salary sitting on the bench would be a much easier pill to swallow than Frei's. With all the moves for allocation at the draft it appears as though the $50,000 or so between Frei and Kocic's salaries would've been big heading into the season. Of course it's too late to do anything about that now.

TFC always seem to have quality keepers but there is almost no trade value in keepers in the league.

I don't disagree with you but it seems weird that having someone outperforming Frei is a bad thing.

Stouffville_RPB
04-16-2013, 10:25 AM
Hindsight... And I doubt Portland would have taken Frei at his salary when they have Ricketts on 200k wage. That's too much money to spend on GKs

Oh I know it wasn't realistic. There was also no way of knowing that Bendik would be playing at this high a level to start the year.

I just find it frustrating that the one area that TFC has been solid in throughout their existence they really haven't been able to benefit from. Ideally you would like to trade from your depth to help you in your weaker areas but that doesn't happen with keepers. NY was in need of keeper, even though they had 3 on the books, and chose to bring Hartman out of retirement instead of trading for Frei and releasing Robles (who hasn't played well at all this season).

Richard
04-16-2013, 10:44 AM
Is this the last we see of Frei? Looks like Bendick is the real deal and maybe its time we let Frei move on. Its hard to think this would happen but salary wise it would make sense.

Yohan
04-16-2013, 10:46 AM
Oh I know it wasn't realistic. There was also no way of knowing that Bendik would be playing at this high a level to start the year.

I just find it frustrating that the one area that TFC has been solid in throughout their existence they really haven't been able to benefit from. Ideally you would like to trade from your depth to help you in your weaker areas but that doesn't happen with keepers. NY was in need of keeper, even though they had 3 on the books, and chose to bring Hartman out of retirement instead of trading for Frei and releasing Robles (who hasn't played well at all this season).
Some thought NY had a strong GK pair of Robles, who looked good enough last season and Meara who is an up and coming youngster. Nobody predicted that Meara would get injured again and Robles would lose form so quickly.

Yohan
04-16-2013, 10:48 AM
Is this the last we see of Frei? Looks like Bendick is the real deal and maybe its time we let Frei move on. Its hard to think this would happen but salary wise it would make sense.
Why? TFC doesn't have a cap problem (that we know of) and Frei's value is lowest in years. Max TFC would get out of a trade is small allocation or a 2nd round pick. If decision is going to be made, wait until mid season. And if Frei is traded, would you rely on Roberts as #2? Or try to look for an unproven cheap American GK?

Richard
04-16-2013, 11:17 AM
Why? TFC doesn't have a cap problem (that we know of) and Frei's value is lowest in years. Max TFC would get out of a trade is small allocation or a 2nd round pick. If decision is going to be made, wait until mid season. And if Frei is traded, would you rely on Roberts as #2? Or try to look for an unproven cheap American GK?

Im thinking about what will happen at the end of the year. I know its very early but Bendik seems to have slotted in well. Frei will actually probably ask for playing time or ask what his future here is. The question is will Frei accept a Kocic type role before he took over from him. Of course right now its pointless to trade him.

Its still very early though, Bendik could be a flop. Time will tell.

dutch
04-17-2013, 11:05 PM
I was reading the john bostock thread. Someone said if he wants 250k next year it might be too much. It got me thinking..
Salary, cap, trade allocation, etc. how does it all work and where do we stand?
Whats the cap, DP's arent counted as part of the cap?
I remember hearing only so much of theyre salary goes against it. I know what some of our larger salaries are.
I feel sorry for some talented younger players that may come here on a loan spell.
Than find out how small the piggy bank is inside that top notch training facility

Yohan
04-17-2013, 11:28 PM
Read

http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/roster-rules-and-regulations (http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/roster-rules-and-regulations)
http://www.dynamotheory.com/2012/1/18/2716142/roster-rules-and-salary-cap-101-where-the-dynamo-stand-heading-in-to
http://www.dynamotheory.com/2012/1/19/2718912/roster-rules-101-allocation-designated-players-discovery-and-home
http://www.dynamotheory.com/2012/3/22/2742229/mls-101-re-entry-draft-contracts-right-of-refusal-and-the-cba
http://www.dynamotheory.com/2012/1/20/2721398/mls-101-drafts-generation-adidas-trades

MLS player's union normally releases salaries data in May

I'll answer questions, but only after you've read the above articles

FluSH
04-18-2013, 01:46 PM
I gotta say those are some great links! I skimmed through them and will read up more later

Kayaker
05-06-2013, 02:54 PM
2013 player salary info has been released by the union:

http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html

Red I
05-06-2013, 03:17 PM
2013 player salary info has been released by the union:

http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html

wow, other than Ecks ridiculous 210k, not too shabby on the salaries - with 350k on O'Dea's base salary, does that mean he's on a DP salary?

EDIT: No, DK shows as a over 350, so i guess Mariner negotiated a DP priced salary to save a DP designation spot

Also, Russell is high at over 90k

flatpicker
05-06-2013, 03:18 PM
For me the only egregious ones are Eckersley and Ephraim

Your opinion means nothing to me, so long as you have the wretched Bruins logo in your av.

;)

PopePouri
05-06-2013, 03:20 PM
For me the only egregious ones are Eckersley and Ephraim

Frei's is hard to bite sitting on the bench. Other than Ephraim's who's short-term, the new additions this season aren't really shocking.

Decent value for Earnshaw who I thought would have been 200K plus.

Auzzy
05-06-2013, 03:21 PM
I think O'Dea is a bit ridiculous as well.


Robert Earnshaw $138k holy shit batman good deal. Especially if he starts scoring again. Going to be a big jump in the summer though, if does well & stays.

MartinUtd
05-06-2013, 03:41 PM
Agboss is a deal and a half and Bostock is cheaper than expected but still not as good a deal as Silva. Curious why Laba is on $200k, I thought that was just the cap hit. Unless that's what they're actually paying him and the DP designation has to do with the transfer fee paid.

Also, 55k is still too much for Wiedeman.

Auzzy
05-06-2013, 03:48 PM
Remember folks neither of the numbers in the salary list show the real cap hit, as has been explained in a couple of articles. All kinds of funny numbers also play into that calculation.

Yohan
05-06-2013, 03:56 PM
I really can't complain much about most of the salaries...

notthesun
05-06-2013, 04:48 PM
Overpaid: Ephraim, Russell, Califf. Also Braun, Dunfield, Frei, Ecks and O'Dea but we knew about those guys already. Hopefully Payne can renegotiate one of the latter two.

Fair: Silva, Lambe, Bostock, Earnshaw, Hall. Laba as well assuming he pans out.

Bargains: Boss, Bendik, Osorio.

Pretty well done by Payne IMO.

Richard
05-06-2013, 05:30 PM
Wow. Does not look bad at all.

AlanO
05-06-2013, 05:53 PM
Not too shabby.

Wonder if Earnshaw, Ephraim and Bostock's salaries are a pro-rated amount based on their loan/short-term deals?

gracos
05-06-2013, 06:28 PM
Gale Agbossoumonde
D
$46,500.00
$53,166.67


Kyle Bekker
M
$46,500.00
$67,750.00


Joe Bendik
GK
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Ashton Bennett
F
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


John Bostock
M
$99,996.00
$99,996.00


Justin Braun
F
$112,200.00
$114,700.00


Danny Califf
D
$165,000.00
$165,000.00


Terry Dunfield
M
$120,000.00
$120,000.00


Robert Earnshaw
F
$138,000.00
$155,150.00


Richard Eckersley
D
$210,000.00
$310,000.00


Logan Emory
D
$48,400.00
$48,400.00


Hogan Ephraim
F
$180,000.00
$180,000.00


Stefan Frei
GK
$145,000.00
$200,000.00


Jeremy Hall
D
$80,000.00
$90,000.00


Doneil Henry
D
$50,000.00
$62,083.33


Danny Koevermans
F
$1,250,000.00
$1,663,323.33


Matias Laba
M
$200,000.00
$200,000.00


Reggie Lambe
M
$67,500.00
$70,000.00


Ashtone Morgan
D
$60,000.00
$72,000.00


Taylor Morgan
F
$35,125.00
$35,125.00


Darren O'Dea
D
$350,000.00
$456,250.00


Jonathan Osorio
M
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Ryan Richter
F
$35,125.00
$35,125.00


Quillan Roberts
GK
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Darel Russell
M
$99,999.96
$109,874.96


Luis Silva
M
$70,400.00
$105,400.00


Emery Welshman
F
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Andrew Wiedeman
F
$55,000.00
$65,000.00

OgtheDim
05-06-2013, 06:46 PM
A lot of teams not spending all that much.

khso11
05-06-2013, 07:09 PM
I think Ephraim's is earning a bit too much, $110,000 and I'll take him.

CommradePolski
05-06-2013, 07:51 PM
Weidemen is not worth remotely 55k. Thats an absurd amount for him.

__wowza
05-06-2013, 08:29 PM
quick thoughts:

- once again our backup keeper making half what our injured (but not really) starter makes. we're going to have the same problem we had with kocic all over again (although kocic is currently riding the pine over in portland).

- justin braun is making waaayyyy too much money. is it because he's been a journeyman for most of his career? i don't know. i know third string strikers make more, but at that value i'd sooner have weideman.

- bostock is making good money. i know he's not on everyones favourite list right now, aside from the fact that he holds the ball when he should be passing (and falling on his ass the rest of the time) the talent is there. plus its a loan deal.

- califf shouldn't be making the money that he is. again, this is where the "MLS experience" argument for his contract comes in. he's an average defender and his experience doesn't seem to be rubbing off or anyone. you could easily cut that by 40-60k.

- when earnshaw is in form, his pricetag looks like a steal. now.. not so much.

- eckersly.. ugh.

- if ephraims salary is cut down by the loan deal, great. if not, it'd make more sense to drop braun.

- o'dea.. ugh.

- silva.. christ. what're we going to do when he realizes he deserves a lot more than we're paying him?

KGH
05-06-2013, 08:46 PM
A couple observations:

1) I'm pleased at what we singed Henry and Morgan for. Despite them both having a sub par year they can grow into their roles.

2) Ephraim is gone at the end of June. We don't have the option to buy him as he's still under contract with QPR. I'm not worried about his 180k at all.

3) at 100k Bostock is worth keeping around to see if he can develop.

4) Eckersley and Danny K can both apply for permanent residence in 2014. I think if we negotiate ecks contract down to about 150k a season and get him to count as a domestic he's good value for a guy who can play any position on the back line.

5) we have $250k invested in keepers that count towards the cap. In relation to other teams I don't think that it's crazy but if frei is gonna be a bench warmer then maybe we should move him.

6) Califf sitting on the bench at 165k is a waste. He hasn't played since April 7th and that's when we started giving up all the late goals. We need a veteran presence on the back line and we have one sitting on the bench.

__wowza
05-06-2013, 08:57 PM
5) we have $250k invested in keepers that count towards the cap. In relation to other teams I don't think that it's crazy but if frei is gonna be a bench warmer then maybe we should move him.

i suggested that back in 2010 and got shouted down.

hindsight is indeed a bitch, but personally i think that his value has evaporated. we used to be able to say that the guy was keeping us in games we had no business in being competitive in, but due to his inactivity, a series of freak injuries, and the fact that our current roster would do nothing but expose all of his weaknesses.. i don't know.

KGH
05-06-2013, 09:08 PM
i suggested that back in 2010 and got shouted down.

hindsight is indeed a bitch, but personally i think that his value has evaporated. we used to be able to say that the guy was keeping us in games we had no business in being competitive in, but due to his inactivity, a series of freak injuries, and the fact that our current roster would do nothing but expose all of his weaknesses.. i don't know.

Any idea of when we signed frei to his current contract?

I wonder if there's an opportunity to sign him to an extension at a lower price tag. He's 27 and should be at the peak of his career. Instead he's been relegated to a back up. Maybe we can get him on a 4 year extension for 100-120k and hope he can get his form back.

ag futbol
05-06-2013, 09:14 PM
I'm not too concerned about guys earning less than 125k. We gain / lose a little bit on each of those, they should all even out. Ok Dunfield gets more than he should, but Agboss gets less given his performance, Braun gets too much, but Bostock is probably underpaid given his pedigree.

I don't even know what to say about T. Morgan and Richter earning 35k. No wonder this league doesn't release salaries, good luck living in Toronto on that money.

__wowza
05-06-2013, 09:16 PM
Any idea of when we signed frei to his current contract?

I wonder if there's an opportunity to sign him to an extension at a lower price tag. He's 27 and should be at the peak of his career. Instead he's been relegated to a back up. Maybe we can get him on a 4 year extension for 100-120k and hope he can get his form back.

to be honest, the MLS is very keeper heavy. bendik and kocic both filled their starter roles well for "backups". i know that's simply due to the fact that we're paying them half as much for what they believed would be a season of 6-10 matches in all competitions, but imagine what we could do if we had a half decent defence in front of them? i could easily see us going well under 160k for a solid starter and a decent backup. whether or not frei is included in those plans would be a mystery.

mowe
05-06-2013, 09:31 PM
O'Dea makes DP money. He is not worth anything close to that. Easily the worst contract on this roster. Califf (a little) and Ecks (a LOT) are overpaid as well.

I'm surprised Russell makes that much. What kind of leverage did he have to get $110k, wasn't he trialing for an NASL team?

Other than that good job by Payne. Tough to know what the real value of the British imports would be as they're all on loan deals I think.

Ajax TFC
05-06-2013, 10:38 PM
How the fuck did Dunfield get a 40k raise??? That better have been Mariner's doing since it would be a strike against Payne in my book if that was him. To make things worse, Avila is now making only 100k at Chivas. Would he have signed for us if we actually tried to keep him? I imagine not after he was treated like shit here, but we only had to offer him 125k to keep his rights. Instead we give that money to a much older and far less effective Dunfield and let Avila go for nothing.

Also did anyone notice that Hassli's salary is down to 237k?

But glad to see we got Wiedeman, Hall, and Califf on much lower salaries than last year

brad
05-07-2013, 08:54 AM
How the fuck did Dunfield get a 40k raise??? That better have been Mariner's doing since it would be a strike against Payne in my book if that was him. To make things worse, Avila is now making only 100k at Chivas. Would he have signed for us if we actually tried to keep him? I imagine not after he was treated like shit here, but we only had to offer him 125k to keep his rights. Instead we give that money to a much older and far less effective Dunfield and let Avila go for nothing.

Word on Avila was more to do with off the field issues than on. He liked the nightlife a bit too much from what I've heard. Based on what he'd put up on social media, seemed to be not far fetched. Take it for what its worth.

Phil
05-07-2013, 09:45 AM
I do have to laugh at the idea that Frie can be moved. A keeper that has played 3 matches in two years on that salary? Oh yeah, the phone will be ringing off the hook.

In a lot of ways, these guys were given the keys to a pretty damanged club, both in morale and in players contracts. Happy to see the progress but its going to be a while before there is real resolution. Hopefully some players will renegotiate their contracts.

19Barrett19
05-07-2013, 07:52 PM
Word on Avila was more to do with off the field issues than on. He liked the nightlife a bit too much from what I've heard. Based on what he'd put up on social media, seemed to be not far fetched. Take it for what its worth.

Like I said in a past thread on avila hes a party animal but I got grilled for it by a member ....wont mention names. Saw him and eks together at cobra downtown eks looked sober buy avila was already in his after hour phase of the night. Enough said!

Soccerpro
05-10-2013, 08:51 PM
Ecks(310k) and Frei(200k) make SoccerByIves all-overpaid team http://www.soccerbyives.net/2013/05/2013-overpaid-team.html

People seem to enjoy debating Ecks but having a 200k backup goalkeeper is just plain crazy.

Prof
05-22-2013, 08:54 PM
Gale Agbossoumonde
D
$46,500.00
$53,166.67


Kyle Bekker
M
$46,500.00
$67,750.00


Joe Bendik
GK
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Ashton Bennett
F
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


John Bostock
M
$99,996.00
$99,996.00


Justin Braun
F
$112,200.00
$114,700.00


Danny Califf
D
$165,000.00
$165,000.00


Terry Dunfield
M
$120,000.00
$120,000.00


Robert Earnshaw
F
$138,000.00
$155,150.00


Richard Eckersley
D
$210,000.00
$310,000.00


Logan Emory
D
$48,400.00
$48,400.00


Hogan Ephraim
F
$180,000.00
$180,000.00


Stefan Frei
GK
$145,000.00
$200,000.00


Jeremy Hall
D
$80,000.00
$90,000.00


Doneil Henry
D
$50,000.00
$62,083.33


Danny Koevermans
F
$1,250,000.00
$1,663,323.33


Matias Laba
M
$200,000.00
$200,000.00


Reggie Lambe
M
$67,500.00
$70,000.00


Ashtone Morgan
D
$60,000.00
$72,000.00


Taylor Morgan
F
$35,125.00
$35,125.00


Darren O'Dea
D
$350,000.00
$456,250.00


Jonathan Osorio
M
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Ryan Richter
F
$35,125.00
$35,125.00


Quillan Roberts
GK
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Darel Russell
M
$99,999.96
$109,874.96


Luis Silva
M
$70,400.00
$105,400.00


Emery Welshman
F
$46,500.00
$46,500.00


Andrew Wiedeman
F
$55,000.00
$65,000.00




All bargains relative to NHL. MLB and NBA salaries.

Haddy
05-22-2013, 09:28 PM
How the fuck did Dunfield get a 40k raise??? That better have been Mariner's doing since it would be a strike against Payne in my book if that was him.

First thing that jumped out and I 100% agree.

Hamilton_Red
05-22-2013, 09:42 PM
All bargains relative to NHL. MLB and NBA salaries.


I'm a little surprised at the attitude here. Frei who was our best player for several years deserves everything he got. What the hell kind of system is it that a player should have his salary cut because he got a bad injury? Which one of us would be ok with our employer dropping our salary because we got injured on the job?

TFC's biggest problem is that they change 90% of the roster every year. They don't have a complete squad until June...then start again February. I'd rather have 5 guys making $300k than one Euro has been making $1.5 Million.

steve

Abou Sky
05-23-2013, 07:33 AM
But because of cap/dp that euro at $1.5 is only $350 so 5x $300 is not the same as 1x$1.5

Yohan
05-23-2013, 07:44 AM
Like I said in a past thread on avila hes a party animal but I got grilled for it by a member ....wont mention names. Saw him and eks together at cobra downtown eks looked sober buy avila was already in his after hour phase of the night. Enough said!
you see a dude drunk once and he's a party animal?

Yohan
05-23-2013, 07:45 AM
First thing that jumped out and I 100% agree.
it may be a guaranteed raise based upon appearances and/or performance. or a raise for picking up Dunfield's option year? (this should be dunfield's option year)

jloome
05-23-2013, 07:58 AM
you see a dude drunk once and he's a party animal?

My thoughts exactly.

Haddy
05-23-2013, 07:58 AM
it may be a guaranteed raise based upon appearances and/or performance. or a raise for picking up Dunfield's option year? (this should be dunfield's option year)

...and based on the state of management over the winter, no matter what the contract said, there wasn't much choice. They had to retain Dunfield.

I'm interested to see what happens over the course of the summer. Dunfield is obviously expendable. But if he goes, it would be nice to have more Canadian content arriving rather than leaving.

Hamilton_Red
05-23-2013, 10:58 PM
Dumb rule...isn't it?

burlington Red
05-26-2013, 06:24 PM
...and based on the state of management over the winter, no matter what the contract said, there wasn't much choice. They had to retain Dunfield.

I'm interested to see what happens over the course of the summer. Dunfield is obviously expendable. But if he goes, it would be nice to have more Canadian content arriving rather than leaving.

seriously if we never have a player like Dunfield ever again, I'd be a happy man
I respect his work ethic, actually met him twice, and a hell of a nice guy, but football wise, not good enough, simple as really, nothing personal against the lad, but not good enough.

Doucet3
07-11-2013, 04:50 PM
Was wondering if anyone knows about their contracts was curious about how long, and what you guys think the likely hood is of them staying (resigning) after there contract?

PS. if this belongs in players movement could an admin move it thanks.

Ivy
07-11-2013, 06:21 PM
The player contracts are generally similar - 2 years plus 2 years optional. I don't think Ryan will want either player unless they cut their paycheques in half. 150k for Ecks, 200 for O'Dea.

backbeat
07-11-2013, 06:28 PM
The player contracts are generally similar - 2 years plus 2 years optional. I don't think Ryan will want either player unless they cut their paycheques in half. 150k for Ecks, 200 for O'Dea.

if Ecks gets his CDN landed status at $150K-$200K, he is here for the long-term imo - O'Dea is another matter, $200K max i'd say and probably closer to $150 as an international.

prizby
07-11-2013, 06:36 PM
think ecks said he's guaranteed thru the end of next year; should qualify for permanent residency before that time; think o'dea is here until 2015; will have qualified for permanent residency by the time that contract expires too

Doucet3
07-11-2013, 07:11 PM
So do you guys think Ecks is here long term, seems like he wants to and although his pay is a bit high I think if he can get CDN resedency it might soften the low of that contract, personally I like Ecks he's one of my favorite players and is pretty good would make a great core player in future years

Doucet3
07-11-2013, 07:20 PM
Just looking at an article I think Ecks contract won't be as big of a deal next year as Frei and Califf will most likely be gone and with recent trade and waives we have roughly 630,400, again roughly calculated but still Frei and Califf ring in at half that amount and they'll be gone

Richard
07-16-2013, 12:49 PM
This thread needs to not be stickied, or at the very least updated. The info is highly outdated.