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Yohan
10-30-2012, 05:09 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/10/30/toronto_fc_mls_paul_mariner_earl_cochrane/?utm_source=Soccer%20Lineup%20RSS-Images&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=Mariner%2C%20Cochrane%20confident%20of %20TFC%20turnaround

Well, at least Mariner has balls.

Most of the players seemed to support Mariner, though Frings and O'Dea were not at the conference. Ryan Johnson expressed reservation. I don't think he's going to be back next season.

jloome
10-30-2012, 05:15 PM
He publicly shits on Silva as too high a draft pick, and reiterates his disappointment with Hassli for staying behind for his child's birth. Probably gonna trade both next.

ensco
10-30-2012, 05:19 PM
I was watching the Molinaro tweets go by, and I was in freaking disbelief. I don't even know where to start. I have never ever seen so many guys question their manager in public, and vice versa. It was beyond chaos.

Go back and look at the tweets (starting about 5 hours ago, as of this post)
https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

At first I thought this site was down because of the storm, but I can't help but think someone friendly to Mariner or Cochrane didn't want this site up during that. (I know this is unlikely, but can't help saying it, what the hell, it's the interweb)

Shakes McQueen
10-30-2012, 05:21 PM
Read the summary of what went on, and followed Molinaro's live tweeted updates. Found it infuriating.

After this many years, to hear "we think we can compete for a playoff spot next year" (such a high bar!), is just sickening. I'm also positively boggled by Cochrane and Mariner's suggestion that the team improved over their tenure. The results don't support that assertion at all. Neither did the quality of play. Oh, but the players, uh, "learned" and stuff. Great stuff, that "learning".

Just shut up and go away. Mariner, to his credit (?), really seems to be a true believer in his nonsense - but it's still nonsense. The only flickers of inspired play I saw from this team, came from guys he buried on the bench for weeks at a time. The rest was pure mud porridge.

Short of some incredibly inspired roster moves this winter, give me one reason to care about next season.

- Scott

ag futbol
10-30-2012, 05:23 PM
We should start a comprehensive list of excuses floated by the management team why we can't be competitive.

Aron Winter, injuries, major league soccer FO, etc...



Short of some incredibly inspired roster moves this winter, give me one reason to care about next season.

Because we are going to watch these guys burn in the fire. Sit back and grab your marshmallows.

Excuses only have so long of a shelf life before people get tired of hearing them.

Shakes McQueen
10-30-2012, 05:24 PM
He publicly shits on Silva as too high a draft pick, and reiterates his disappointment with Hassli for staying behind for his child's birth. Probably gonna trade both next.

But first he needs to make sure he burns his bridges with both of them, and further torpedoes their trade values because every team knows he has no choice but to get rid of them. Genius.

I've had enough of these clowns. That's all I can really say. Beyond that, I just don't care. Give me a reason to care, TFC.

- Scott

tfcleeds
10-30-2012, 05:24 PM
"It's incumbent on all of us ... to dedicate ourselves to be positive, to get the right people in and to put the product right on the field. That's what we've been charged to do, and that's what we're going to do. I have no doubts that we can do it. Absolutely none," Mariner said.

And after a 14 game winless streak, I have no faith that you are the right person for the job. Absolutely none.

Torontotonto
10-30-2012, 05:27 PM
He publicly shits on Silva as too high a draft pick, and reiterates his disappointment with Hassli for staying behind for his child's birth. Probably gonna trade both next.

Who could blame a guy wanting to be home for a childs birth, especially a meaningless game against Shitlumbus or anyone else for that matter. :facepalm:

West220Side
10-30-2012, 05:29 PM
he said he has quote "seven" players of MLS starting quality on his roster, does anybody wanna play a game? Guess who those players are? from back to front


Frei

O'dea
Eckersley

Frings
Lambe

Koevermans

I would also say that of course these players are good enough to start in the mls

Kocic

Henry
Morgan
Silva

Avila
Johnson

players like dunfield are bench players, but with the heart he showed, i feel bad leaving him off my list ! who did I forget? i would think most everybody else is a bench player or.. just reserve game quality.

v00d00daddy
10-30-2012, 05:30 PM
So many messed up things said by Mariner, Cochrane and several players.

Too many to mention.

Very depressing and cowardly on many fronts.

West220Side
10-30-2012, 05:33 PM
haha oh and... reggie lambe said something about us having another bermudan on trial? hopefully he's more of a 'lambe' and not a 'hall' because really lambe is a decent player in my opinion but hall is god awful, and i bet mariner is bringing in another poor player because he's from bermuda.

if you're going to bring in a bermudan paulie bring in Nakhi Wells on the cheap.

starter
10-30-2012, 05:54 PM
Players dependent on the employment by TFC would tend to suck up to FO.

DoubleUp
10-30-2012, 06:01 PM
If we get rid of Silva we are stupid.

Richard
10-30-2012, 06:08 PM
We are not going to make playoffs next year with these guys in charge. Cant wait for the next rebuilding marketing campaign.

mcolvy
10-30-2012, 06:11 PM
Milos Kocic is the man. His interview showed how much he cares about the game. He works hard and is emotionally attached to the team. He also is straight up and wouldn't say he liked Mariner.


Trade Frei. Kocic is our guy.

Redcoe15
10-30-2012, 06:21 PM
:shocked: :facepalm: :frown2:

That's about all that needs to be said about this.

ouderwien
10-30-2012, 06:30 PM
My favourite moment was when Mariner was asked about who brought in Aceval and Caicedo. I appreciated that line of questioning but the intentions of the question were never answered. Mariner never admitted that he was responsible for bringing in these players and not all can be blamed on Winter.

bgnewf
10-30-2012, 06:38 PM
Probably not the most popular position here based on what I read on these forums But I generally have been in agreement with Duane Rollins on Mariner, namely he needs a season to be judged upon and that the last thing this team needs is more instability, and it looks like that is going to be the path that the team is deciding to take no matter what we all think.

But I have to confess I have found Mariner's words, particularly today, very very troubling. Troubling enough that I am much less convinced today that he is the guy to take this team forward.

What purpose is there to come out and say in a public forum that he would not have chosen Luis Silva if he was in charge when the SuperDraft took place last winter? Who benefits from saying that publicly? For that matter why say it even privately?

To what purpose do you call out Eric Hassli for being away for the birth of his child after the fact?

Put on top of these two just from today how he took a shit on Aron Winter both in public and if you believe the rumours in Cathal Kelly's articla on Sunday by being the "source" for his article. And add to these rumoured dust ups with fans, the words he is alleged to have told JdG on his way out the door to Dallas and a picture of a real loose cannon is starting to appear.

Maybe Mariner felt he needed to take this approach to try and make sure that some of the rotten stink from 2012 rolls off of his shoulders so that he can go into 2013 with less proverbial baggage than he would end up with otherwise.... f***d if I know the reasoning here, just as I did not know the reasoning for him stating that Eckersley is the fullback for the future while stubbornly keeping him at centre back all season when options were available for him at the position (just one of many on field decisions worthy of questioning).

I get that Mariner has a real tough job, and there is a long road ahead, but I simply do not get why he would to choose to make his job more difficult and his position less tenable by publicly carrying on with antics such as the ones we all saw today?

notthesun
10-30-2012, 06:41 PM
What exactly did Mariner say about Silva? I'm watching the videos of the conference and I can't find it...

jloome
10-30-2012, 06:56 PM
What exactly did Mariner say about Silva? I'm watching the videos of the conference and I can't find it...

He said if he were selecting at the draft he wouldn't have taken him with the #4 pick, the suggestion being they had other priorities, which might well be true but is completely tactless and stupid to say out loud.

brad
10-30-2012, 06:56 PM
This year was bad, we will be better next year, ect, ect. Same song and dance the give us at the end of each year when they try to get us to renew seasons.

Suds
10-30-2012, 06:59 PM
What exactly did Mariner say about Silva? I'm watching the videos of the conference and I can't find it...

Part 10 of the interviews. Someone poses the question/clarification that Mariner and scouts would have opted for someone other than Silva with the #4. Asked if he can say who that other person was - Mariner said no.

jloome
10-30-2012, 07:00 PM
but I simply do not get why he would to choose to make his job more difficult and his position less tenable by publicly carrying on with antics such as the ones we all saw today?

Answer: lord, he's not very bright.

Seriously. I find the generally more patient and accepting position of him unsupportable on evidence. I keep hearing "give him more time," but he had more than half a season and not only put together the weakest lineup this team has ever had but actually managed to statistically decline from Winter across the board, once Koevermans was out.

Add that to these comments, his comments to DeGuzman before he left, his decision to release Soolsma and comments to the media that Wiedeman is as good ... it's baffling how anyone has any confidence from anything this man has done. He rode a Danny K hotstreak to a handful of wins in which were for the most part played even or played off the pitch despite the final scoreline. Since then we've had 40% passing, less than half the passes attempted and completed of our opponents....

People can put this all down to tactical adaption to the tools at hand, but that's naive to the extreme, both with respect to the role he had in putting the team together and his choices in using them.

We haven't had a win since JULY, for fuck's sake. Why would anyone in their right mind preach "stability" with this guy at the helm? There's simply no evidence it will happen.

ensco
10-30-2012, 07:04 PM
What purpose is there to come out and say in a public forum that he would not have chosen Luis Silva if he was in charge when the SuperDraft took place last winter? Who benefits from saying that publicly? For that matter why say it even privately?

To what purpose do you call out Eric Hassli for being away for the birth of his child after the fact?


To prove to everyone that you are the boss and are not to be messed with, when your own bosses are famous weasels and don't really support you, because they never actually really support anybody, ever, of course.

Working for these people would make a good manager crazy. It's avert-your-gaze carnage to see what it does to a bad one.

Nuvinho
10-30-2012, 07:10 PM
supposedly Mariner wanted Nick DeLeon instead of Luis Silva as per Ives.

ManUtd4ever
10-30-2012, 07:12 PM
If the current management team is kept in place next season, it will be a colossal blunder, even by this organization's standards.

brad
10-30-2012, 07:16 PM
If the current management team is kept in place next season, it will be a colossal blunder, even by this organization's standards.

They will trade away our future is desperate attempt to squeak into the playoffs and save their own skins. I expect to see draft picks,and most likely Silva, and Morgan (if rumors are to be believed) being shipped out for a bunch of MLS vets.

DoubleUp
10-30-2012, 07:20 PM
They will trade away our future is desperate attempt to squeak into the playoffs and save their own skins. I expect to see draft picks,and most likely Silva, and Morgan (if rumors are to be believed) being shipped out for a bunch of MLS vets.


This news is very sad and disheartening.


This organization is really like a bad dream playing over and over again.:(

[NBF]
10-30-2012, 07:22 PM
I only caught about half of what was said during Football Today broadcast. I caught a bit about the "fringe" players not being good enough to play on any other team let alone TFC. Logan Emory, Jeremy Hall and Andrew Wiedeman did the interview together and they looked like deer in the headlights. They all professed loyalty for the coach but it seemed like they were going through the motions. One thing I'll say is that if Mariner wanted them to do the interview together he either wanted to make them sweat or because he's planning on bringing them back.

Hassli, looked nervous, maybe unsure as to his future, and tried to be positive. Frings was not there but Mariner went out of his way to say that he "spoke" with him a while back and Frings was looking forward to coming back to finish his career on a high note, which came out as him speaking for Frings like he was dying to return and kiss his ass. It really sounded like he was talking about Terry Dunfield. Koevermans, said that he couldnt put a date for his return, he went as far as saying he wouldnt even say April or May. He didnt want to put a date on paper and say on this date he's planning to return to football, because didnt want to be criticized if he wasnt available by that date. It sounded more like he wasnt sure whether he was coming back at all, in MLS or TFC.

starter
10-30-2012, 07:24 PM
A position to give a manager more time sounds acceptable, when there is a story behind it, like we want to implement this strategy, or try this and that. But the man is empty, he has no story to keep anyone looking forward excited. The style will depend on players. How do you sign players then? How do you sell this product without a story?

[NBF]
10-30-2012, 07:26 PM
They will trade away our future is desperate attempt to squeak into the playoffs and save their own skins. I expect to see draft picks,and most likely Silva, and Morgan (if rumors are to be believed) being shipped out for a bunch of MLS vets.

Where are the Silva and Morgan rumours coming from?

Alonso
10-30-2012, 07:29 PM
Probably not the most popular position here based on what I read on these forums But I generally have been in agreement with Duane Rollins on Mariner, namely he needs a season to be judged upon and that the last thing this team needs is more instability, and it looks like that is going to be the path that the team is deciding to take no matter what we all think.

But I have to confess I have found Mariner's words, particularly today, very very troubling. Troubling enough that I am much less convinced today that he is the guy to take this team forward.

What purpose is there to come out and say in a public forum that he would not have chosen Luis Silva if he was in charge when the SuperDraft took place last winter? Who benefits from saying that publicly? For that matter why say it even privately?

To what purpose do you call out Eric Hassli for being away for the birth of his child after the fact?

Put on top of these two just from today how he took a shit on Aron Winter both in public and if you believe the rumours in Cathal Kelly's articla on Sunday by being the "source" for his article. And add to these rumoured dust ups with fans, the words he is alleged to have told JdG on his way out the door to Dallas and a picture of a real loose cannon is starting to appear.

Maybe Mariner felt he needed to take this approach to try and make sure that some of the rotten stink from 2012 rolls off of his shoulders so that he can go into 2013 with less proverbial baggage than he would end up with otherwise.... f***d if I know the reasoning here, just as I did not know the reasoning for him stating that Eckersley is the fullback for the future while stubbornly keeping him at centre back all season when options were available for him at the position (just one of many on field decisions worthy of questioning).

I get that Mariner has a real tough job, and there is a long road ahead, but I simply do not get why he would to choose to make his job more difficult and his position less tenable by publicly carrying on with antics such as the ones we all saw today?


I couldn't agree more emphatically with all of this.

Without hiring a President or GM, Mariner had to stay in my opinion. The constant turnover at this club is beyond stupid, both in players and coaches.

However, Mariners comments and actions as outlined in this post and as played out in the media, particularly the Sun articles has me shaking my head.

It's almost to the point now that I'm thinking I want Mariner replaced. I don't like the constant throwing people under the bus approach that Mariner seems to share with Anselmi, while taking no personal responsibility for their contributions to this mess.

All that being said. I do have hope for next year. Whether it's with Mariner or another coach I think this team, with 2 decent midfielders added and another good CB can have a good go of it next year.

A healthy Johnson, Hassli, Koevs, Silva up front will be lethal and pot us plenty of goals.

Ekersley, O'Dea, Morgan, and new CB signing with Henry learning and developing in the wings can be a decent back line in this league.

Frei and Kocic in goal is a solid pairing.

Frings in midfield is a good start and if we can find 2 more quality midfielders for him to play with I think we are looking at a very decent team here.

After watching all the interviews, I am taken aback at how much the players are behind Mariner. I'm not sure if it's genuine, or obviously, them wanting to appease the likely man who will be making the decisions as to who will play next year and who will even be around next year.

I think next year has the potential to be a very different year than this one. I think if they keep the DP's healthy and playing most of the year, this team will do very well.

ManUtd4ever
10-30-2012, 07:32 PM
They will trade away our future is desperate attempt to squeak into the playoffs and save their own skins. I expect to see draft picks,and most likely Silva, and Morgan (if rumors are to be believed) being shipped out for a bunch of MLS vets.

This short sighted approach with the sole interest of saving their own hides is exactly why I want the management team replaced this off season. I can get over the dreadful season that we have just endured, but I can't get over the dismantling of the few precious assets we still have. If you are correct, not only will TFC flounder yet again next season, but the franchise could very well be crippled for years after Mariner and Cochrane's inevitable departure.

I sincerely hope that Anselmi does the right thing at this crucial juncture. He got it right with the discount for STH's, but it will all be for naught if the charade continues.

prizby
10-30-2012, 07:38 PM
Very disappointed that our club did not have its captain available for the media

ensco
10-30-2012, 07:38 PM
I sincerely hope that Anselmi does the right thing at this crucial juncture. He got it right with the discount for STH's, but it will all be for naught if the charade continues.

It's more likely to snow in July, I fear.

Yohan
10-30-2012, 07:39 PM
This short sighted approach with the sole interest of saving their own hides is exactly why I want the management team replaced this off season. I can get over the dreadful season that we have just endured, but I can't get over the dismantling of the few precious assets we still have. If you are correct, not only will TFC flounder yet again next season, but the franchise could very well be crippled for years after Mariner and Cochrane's inevitable departure.

I sincerely hope that Anselmi does the right thing at this crucial juncture. He got it right with the discount for STH's, but it will all be for naught if the charade continues.I think Anselmi bought the injury ridden season excuse hook, line and sinker. To be fair, injuries did hurt a lot. But I don't think Anselmi understands Mariner is out of his depth, esp with that snake oil salesman Cockring whispering stuff in his ear

Pinkie
10-30-2012, 07:41 PM
Very disappointed that our club did not have its captain available for the media
he's only recently started to give interviews. maybe he doesn't feel confident enough in his language skills? alternatively he's fucked off to germany already to distance himself from the shitshow that is TFC?

[NBF]
10-30-2012, 07:44 PM
he's only recently started to give interviews. maybe he doesn't feel confident enough in his language skills? alternatively he's fucked off to germany already to distance himself from the shitshow that is TFC?

I saw the leader of men was there ready to throw Winter under the bus and praise Mariner's new approach.

Did O'Dea show up?

Ajax TFC
10-30-2012, 07:46 PM
I figured that the bullshit wouldn't sit well with my stomach so I didn't bother watching. Reading this thread, it appears that I made the right call.

Belfast_Boy
10-30-2012, 07:50 PM
Probably not the most popular position here based on what I read on these forums But I generally have been in agreement with Duane Rollins on Mariner, namely he needs a season to be judged upon and that the last thing this team needs is more instability, and it looks like that is going to be the path that the team is deciding to take no matter what we all think.

But I have to confess I have found Mariner's words, particularly today, very very troubling. Troubling enough that I am much less convinced today that he is the guy to take this team forward.

What purpose is there to come out and say in a public forum that he would not have chosen Luis Silva if he was in charge when the SuperDraft took place last winter? Who benefits from saying that publicly? For that matter why say it even privately?

To what purpose do you call out Eric Hassli for being away for the birth of his child after the fact?

Put on top of these two just from today how he took a shit on Aron Winter both in public and if you believe the rumours in Cathal Kelly's articla on Sunday by being the "source" for his article. And add to these rumoured dust ups with fans, the words he is alleged to have told JdG on his way out the door to Dallas and a picture of a real loose cannon is starting to appear.

Maybe Mariner felt he needed to take this approach to try and make sure that some of the rotten stink from 2012 rolls off of his shoulders so that he can go into 2013 with less proverbial baggage than he would end up with otherwise.... f***d if I know the reasoning here, just as I did not know the reasoning for him stating that Eckersley is the fullback for the future while stubbornly keeping him at centre back all season when options were available for him at the position (just one of many on field decisions worthy of questioning).

I get that Mariner has a real tough job, and there is a long road ahead, but I simply do not get why he would to choose to make his job more difficult and his position less tenable by publicly carrying on with antics such as the ones we all saw today?

Tom has his back. He told me that Mariner promised playoffs next year. my response was (shaking my head) you have to hire a proven president now, your rebuild will take one to two years. you aren't seeing the playoffs next year.
I agree with what you said at the beginning, Mariner needs to stay now for stability. However, only until we hire a proven director or president of football. he will be the one that fires this moron and brings proper vision to this club. he's an assistant, I don't know where people keep thinking he has a proven record...... the ignorance is astounding.
the next big problem that could be looming on the horizon is Cockrane as prez. then we are all fucked.

ensco
10-30-2012, 07:54 PM
It's killing me to say this, but I don't think I can renew.

I'm just tired of paying for other people's management training.

brad
10-30-2012, 08:04 PM
;1539935']Where are the Silva and Morgan rumours coming from?

The Morgan rumor was on here (Denime posted it I think) - that he was being shopped.

Silva is pure speculation on my part, based on Mariner throwing him under the bus today, and the fact that he has trade value - probably very high at the moment.

brad
10-30-2012, 08:08 PM
This short sighted approach with the sole interest of saving their own hides is exactly why I want the management team replaced this off season. I can get over the dreadful season that we have just endured, but I can't get over the dismantling of the few precious assets we still have. If you are correct, not only will TFC flounder yet again next season, but the franchise could very well be crippled for years after Mariner and Cochrane's inevitable departure.

I sincerely hope that Anselmi does the right thing at this crucial juncture. He got it right with the discount for STH's, but it will all be for naught if the charade continues.

Without the proper structure in place (President), and proper goals (say, build a winner over three years vs playoffs or you're out), it won't matter if they go and someone else is brought in. No one is going to throw there career away and try and build for the future if they know they have to win that season.

I don't actually blame Mariner and Cochrane for doing this if their directive from above is playoffs or gone. They are doing what they need to do to survive. No more no less. It's the directive that's the problem - not the people executing it (although they are incompetent).

brad
10-30-2012, 08:09 PM
Very disappointed that our club did not have its captain available for the media

He was probably worried they'd make him juggle in the parking lot.

brad
10-30-2012, 08:10 PM
I think Anselmi bought the injury ridden season excuse hook, line and sinker. To be fair, injuries did hurt a lot. But I don't think Anselmi understands Mariner is out of his depth, esp with that snake oil salesman Cockring whispering stuff in his ear

Injuries killed us because we sunk our cap into injury prone players, and traded for an injured DP to boot. But I agree that Anselmi probably bought it.

prizby
10-30-2012, 08:54 PM
he's only recently started to give interviews. maybe he doesn't feel confident enough in his language skills? alternatively he's fucked off to germany already to distance himself from the shitshow that is TFC?

so then why the fuck is he our club captain...if he didn't feel the language skills were up to the par, there are professional translators; tfc have used them before

Yohan
10-30-2012, 09:01 PM
so then why the fuck is he our club captain...if he didn't feel the language skills were up to the par, there are professional translators; tfc have used them before

something is weird. it is possible that due to his hip surgery, Frings might have been advised not to travel back to Toronto. but then again, Frings's silence is also bit awkward

denime
10-30-2012, 09:02 PM
And yet Mariner isn't the least bit concerned about losing his job, having recently talked to Tom Anselmi, executive vice president and chief operating officer for MLSE.
"I expect to be in charge of the team (in 2013)," Mariner stated.

But why should he, considering the team's poor performance down the season stretch?

"Because I'm very good at what I do," Mariner bullishly answered. :facepalm:

Really? Shouldn't that have been reflected in the results on the field?



"Absolutely. (But) it's difficult to win MLS games when you basically have your reserve team playing week in and week out," Mariner pointed out.
To be fair, Toronto FC had serious injury problems this season. Starting goalkeeper Stefan Frei broke his ankle in March and missed the entire campaign, while all three of the team's designated players -- Torsten Frings, Danny Koevermans and Eric Hassli -- spent significant time sidelined with injuries.


Still, the Columbus Crew had injury issues, and almost made the playoffs despite losing 257 "man games" to injury during the season.

If the Crew could be competitive while dealing with a rash of injuries, why couldn't TFC?

Maybe, because CREW has a coach and TFC has CLOWN on the sideline.



Mariner is complete delusional idiot,there is now way anyone can convince me differently.



John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) From today's #TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) presser. Me: "Why should you continue to be coach?" Mariner: "Because I'm very good at what I do." I wish I was so sure.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/263437824110522368) (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/263437824110522368)






Jason deVosVerified ‏@jasondevos (https://twitter.com/jasondevos) Question: Was any reason given for Torsten Frings absence from today's season ending presser?
Jason deVosVerified ‏@jasondevos (https://twitter.com/jasondevos)
@notthatjoe (https://twitter.com/notthatjoe) Unless he is under the knife having surgery (which he isn't) or has a family emergency (which he doesn't) he should be there.


Jason deVosVerified ‏@jasondevos (https://twitter.com/jasondevos) @notthatjoe (https://twitter.com/notthatjoe) If that is the case (which it isn't) then he should still be there. He's the club captain!
(https://twitter.com/jasondevos/status/263301671579447296)

denime
10-30-2012, 09:03 PM
something is weird. it is possible that due to his hip surgery, Frings might have been advised not to travel back to Toronto. but then again, Frings's silence is also bit awkward

Frings was here 10 days ago,he was at last game and 90 minutes party.

Pinkie
10-30-2012, 09:05 PM
so then why the fuck is he our club captain...if he didn't feel the language skills were up to the par, there are professional translators; tfc have used them before

i dunno...i've watched pretty much all the torontofctv things this past year (not all at once mind you, but during the season) and he very rarely appeared in interviews. their go-to for a while koevs, no? i'm not saying this is an ideal situation, i'm just stating what i've noticed (which could be wrong :) )

Yohan
10-30-2012, 09:06 PM
Frings was here 10 days ago,he was at last game and 90 minutes party.

right. so something stinks.

anyways, good summary for those of you that missed the event

http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/10/30/3576692/toronto-fc-end-of-season-media-day

Belfast_Boy
10-30-2012, 09:07 PM
I'd be surprised if we see Frings again. just how i see it. don't blame him.

brad
10-30-2012, 09:16 PM
something is weird. it is possible that due to his hip surgery, Frings might have been advised not to travel back to Toronto. but then again, Frings's silence is also bit awkward

If Frings was behind Mariner - there would be video or interviews with him.

Alonso
10-30-2012, 09:24 PM
It's killing me to say this, but I don't think I can renew.

I'm just tired of paying for other people's management training.


I'm still not renewing.

Just on the principle of this whole mess.

Someone has to be held accountable, and if management aren't going to be held accountable then I will hold ML$E accountable and not renew.

Auzzy
10-30-2012, 09:31 PM
The surgery was shortly after Frings played his last game with TFC. He was at the Raptors game much later, after he came back to Canada.

Here's one tweet from the official Toronto FC account today, 11 hours ago:


Toronto FC ‏@torontofc
(https://twitter.com/torontofc)@colinscameron (https://twitter.com/colinscameron) Frings is back in Germany for treatment. Good idea though and we'll look into what can be done. #TFCLive (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFCLive&src=hash)

Very sketchy info considering this is the captain & DP. But then again, his first departure (for surgery) was also very sudden & poorly explained. The whole things stinks to high heaven. Let's just say he's really back in Germany for some very important treatment today. Consider this was a crucial media event today, after a craptastic season, with the team & fans demoralized, and many season ticket holders still on the fence, etc. Your captain is missing. Wouldn't you explain upfront, very clearly & publicly, why is he not here; why couldn't that treatment be postponed or carried out in Canada; what is his exact medical condition and therefore his chances of being back next year fully fit. Wouldn't you have a 2-minute video from Frings, preferably live-streamed from Germany, where he just says a few words? Even if it's just a canned mini-interview from before he left Toronto.

So many things are so bizarre about this team, from top to bottom.

Alonso
10-30-2012, 09:36 PM
something is weird. it is possible that due to his hip surgery, Frings might have been advised not to travel back to Toronto. but then again, Frings's silence is also bit awkward


If I remember correctly Frings was at a Raptors game with Anslemi a few week or so ago.

He has already travelled back from Germany after the surgery.

I think the guy is generally not that comfortable in front of the media, whether in German or in English he can't be bothered.

I don't blame him.

Most of them (media/journalists) are morons.

arsenal
10-30-2012, 09:41 PM
We should start a comprehensive list of excuses floated by the management team why we can't be competitive.

Aron Winter, injuries, major league soccer FO, etc...


Because we are going to watch these guys burn in the fire. Sit back and grab your marshmallows.

Excuses only have so long of a shelf life before people get tired of hearing them.

I am so sick of hearing about injuries as the reason why Mariner should get a mulligan for his winless streak. Winter's losing streak to start the season had an out of shape Koevs and had Frings missing half the games and then coming back out of format from injury. Outside of an out of shape Koevs, the players Winter used who were unavailable to Mariner were all guys he shipped out (Soolsma, de Guzman, Plata, Aceval).

Not saying Winter did not have to go but that Mariner should not get to keep using missing players as excuse for losses. He traded for an injured hassling and brought in Odea who would be missing games or needing rest due to intl games. Aside from Koevs hotstreak that had them earning pts against the run of play his results were dreadful.

soccer
10-30-2012, 10:39 PM
Does everyone remember the game Frings got beat in the box and the opposing player scored? Does everyone remember Mariner throwing Frings "under the bus", in the post game media conference blaming Frings for the loss? After the media conference, when word got back to Frings on what Mariner said and did, there was a blowup between the two of them. Frings told Mariner to go f' himself. Interesting that a few days later, Frings went back to Germany to have hip surgery. Koevs stayed in Toronto to have his ACL surgery and to rehab. Is medical care that much better in Germany? No it is not. Frings will not be back as long as Mariner is around. TFC, with Mariner and Cochrane, is going nowhere fast.

Alonso
10-30-2012, 10:47 PM
Does everyone remember the game Frings got beat in the box and the opposing player scored? Does everyone remember Mariner throwing Frings "under the bus", in the post game media conference blaming Frings for the loss? After the media conference, when word got back to Frings on what Mariner said and did, there was a blowup between the two of them. Frings told Mariner to go f' himself. Interesting that a few days later, Frings went back to Germany to have hip surgery. Koevs stayed in Toronto to have his ACL surgery and to rehab. Is medical care that much better in Germany? No it is not. Frings will not be back as long as Mariner is around. TFC, with Mariner and Cochrane, is going nowhere fast.


Yup.

I remember all of it.

Frings spent a Raptors game with Anselmi a few weeks ago. But didn't show to the year end interviews...

I think your assumptions might be right. But who can really know? Right?

jloome
10-30-2012, 11:26 PM
It's killing me to say this, but I don't think I can renew.

I'm just tired of paying for other people's management training.

The one hope I'm holding out is that Anselmi will realize he can get a president in place before the pre-season really gets underway, and then leave the canning of Mariner to him with instructions to do it quickly and the usual out of "well, he wants to go with his own people." Which, if the person is qualified, he should.

Yohan
10-30-2012, 11:34 PM
I'm resigned to the fact that we're stuck with Mariner for at least start of next season :(

Auzzy
10-31-2012, 12:19 AM
I haven't had a chance to watch the whole interviews yet, but I read everything here & the news articles about the presser. Wow, this whole thing gives me such an awful feeling. I was looking for some positive sign before deciding to renew. I was hoping they might have big splash to announce after the last game. Or that Mariner might give a hint of learning something or contrition.

No, just more of the same crap, and worse, with more & more decent players getting tossed under the bus, bad vibes from many of the players, plus more delusion, deflecting and blamestorming all around. So far away from the "minor tweak" that was promised post-Winter. "The players dictate the system" except when they fire half of them. Some pretty decent players are confirmed to be talking with the current management clowns about their contract options in the next few days. Likely Avila, Johnson, and maybe even Silva will be scoring & setting up goals vs. TFC soon, while Kocic will be stopping TFC's feeble attempts at goal.

Anselmi is making some slightly encouraging hints about looking for a president or whatever. But it's all so ass-backward. Just like the end of the Preki/Mo days. MLSE should have known for a couple of months that Mariner is very contentious & not really getting the results. And they knew for longer that they need a soccer prez after the MLSE sale and Anselmi promotion. NOW they're starting to look for that person (if at all)?

In the meantime, Mariner & Cochrane will be screwing around with the team. With the delusional crap Mariner says and does, I can only imagine how he will entrench himself in that position before a possible new prez is hired. He'll screw the long term prospects by aiming everything short-term to sneak into the 2013 playoffs. If a new prez comes, he'll find a bunch of crap in place; cap space/allocation/discovery signings/international spots all pooched. Plus I'm sure Mariner & Cochrane will try to influence the president selection, get themselves some figurehead toady.

New prez needs to be here NOW. Let him evaluate PM and the whole wacky gang. Just like the new prez needed to be there before Winter was fired. What hope is TFC giving us to warrant buying season tickets? Same shit, different year.

Benficachop20
10-31-2012, 12:45 AM
watching the vid made me even more depressed and worried about where this club is going, there's no way we improve with those 2 running things

Redcoe15
10-31-2012, 04:47 AM
Why the fuck should I put faith in Tom Anselmi to do the right thing? He had six years to do that and our side is right back to where it was as a first year expansion club, if not worse.

And he got a fucking promotion from all this.

Someone had mentioned this before. How would any other business look at you if they judged you based upon the performance of the past six years? You really think you'd still have a job, much less a promotion, if everything was a huge catastrofuck?

narduch
10-31-2012, 07:07 AM
Most of the players seemed to support Mariner, though Frings and O'Dea were not at the conference. Ryan Johnson expressed reservation. I don't think he's going to be back next season.

Other than Johnson, it appears Mariner's support came from all of his players. The guys he marginalized weren't as supportive.

narduch
10-31-2012, 07:10 AM
I'm starting to think writers like Larson and Rollins are just trolling the TFC fan base now. Its not even about protecting sources and putting out a story for their friends in the FO. I think they are just trying to get a rise out of TFC fans.

They can't possibily listen to Mariner and Cochrane talk and have faith in their plans for next season. I don't think any sane soccer fan could.

brad
10-31-2012, 07:13 AM
Why the fuck should I put faith in Tom Anselmi to do the right thing? He had six years to do that and our side is right back to where it was as a first year expansion club, if not worse.

And he got a fucking promotion from all this.

Someone had mentioned this before. How would any other business look at you if they judged you based upon the performance of the past six years? You really think you'd still have a job, much less a promotion, if everything was a huge catastrofuck?

You are using the wrong yardstick to measure Anslemi's performance. The people make such calls are looking at financials, not on field results. TFC has been wildly financial off the pitch, and that is why Anslemi got promoted. They could care less about what happens on the pitch.

Of course, what happens on the pitch is detrimental to the long term profits, but that is a different story.

That is why one one hand I think there might be a small ray of hope. I think it's well known at Anselmi's level now that winning is going to be needed to not watch profits nosedive.

But I do agree - Tom deserves no faith. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me what, 6 times now??

tfcleeds
10-31-2012, 07:25 AM
I haven't had a chance to watch the whole interviews yet, but I read everything here & the news articles about the presser. Wow, this whole thing gives me such an awful feeling. I was looking for some positive sign before deciding to renew. I was hoping they might have big splash to announce after the last game. Or that Mariner might give a hint of learning something or contrition.

No, just more of the same crap, and worse, with more & more decent players getting tossed under the bus, bad vibes from many of the players, plus more delusion, deflecting and blamestorming all around. So far away from the "minor tweak" that was promised post-Winter. "The players dictate the system" except when they fire half of them. Some pretty decent players are confirmed to be talking with the current management clowns about their contract options in the next few days. Likely Avila, Johnson, and maybe even Silva will be scoring & setting up goals vs. TFC soon, while Kocic will be stopping TFC's feeble attempts at goal.

Anselmi is making some slightly encouraging hints about looking for a president or whatever. But it's all so ass-backward. Just like the end of the Preki/Mo days. MLSE should have known for a couple of months that Mariner is very contentious & not really getting the results. And they knew for longer that they need a soccer prez after the MLSE sale and Anselmi promotion. NOW they're starting to look for that person (if at all)?

In the meantime, Mariner & Cochrane will be screwing around with the team. With the delusional crap Mariner says and does, I can only imagine how he will entrench himself in that position before a possible new prez is hired. He'll screw the long term prospects by aiming everything short-term to sneak into the 2013 playoffs. If a new prez comes, he'll find a bunch of crap in place; cap space/allocation/discovery signings/international spots all pooched. Plus I'm sure Mariner & Cochrane will try to influence the president selection, get themselves some figurehead toady.

New prez needs to be here NOW. Let him evaluate PM and the whole wacky gang. Just like the new prez needed to be there before Winter was fired. What hope is TFC giving us to warrant buying season tickets? Same shit, different year.

This should be the new motto of the club, instead of "All For One". In fact, it probably should be emblazoned on the crest.

Ageroo
10-31-2012, 07:58 AM
I'm starting to think writers like Larson and Rollins are just trolling the TFC fan base now. Its not even about protecting sources and putting out a story for their friends in the FO. I think they are just trying to get a rise out of TFC fans.

They can't possibily listen to Mariner and Cochrane talk and have faith in their plans for next season. I don't think any sane soccer fan could.


I am beginning to believe this as well....they cover the team heavily and really I can't see how they see through the dog and pony show that Mariner and Co. are putting on.......they do get the discussion going for sure.

narduch
10-31-2012, 08:06 AM
I am beginning to believe this as well....they cover the team heavily and really I can't see how they see through the dog and pony show that Mariner and Co. are putting on.......they do get the discussion going for sure.

It was only after the Kelly article that it dawned on me.

What will get more hits on your blog or article? Mariner should be fired or a staunch defence of him? My guess is over 90% of the TFC fan base wants Mariner out.

Phil
10-31-2012, 08:08 AM
Watching those interviews was shocking.

The message to me is Mariner is the wrong guy and a lot of players are afraid. Just look at their body language.

Ageroo
10-31-2012, 08:10 AM
It was only after the Kelly article that it dawned on me.

What will get more hits on your blog or article? Mariner should be fired or a staunch defence of him? My guess is over 90% of the TFC fan base wants Mariner out.

I never really thought of it that way.....makes perfect sense. Increases your readship one hundred fold for sure....and now anything they write will get a ton of hits because people just want to see anything they write now. They are the only one that knows whether or not they actually believe in Mariner.......if they don't believe in him....then they are definitely putting on a great theatre act.

Detroit_TFC
10-31-2012, 08:36 AM
For most on our squad, being on TFC's roster is way better than the alternatives, which for most is not another MLS team but more likely playing in the lower divisions for the lucky ones, or not playing professionally at all. None of these guys want to get cut.

Wull
10-31-2012, 09:14 AM
Watching those interviews was shocking.

The message to me is Mariner is the wrong guy and a lot of players are afraid. Just look at their body language.

Are you now ready to put the RPB name behind this statement or at least talk about it?

Fort York Redcoat
10-31-2012, 09:15 AM
Very disappointed that our club did not have its captain available for the media

I think after what's been said if you're hoping for a coaching change Frings' absence was the most hopeful aspect of the day.

I think it far more important that he's talking to Anselmi than me and supporting Mariner in a presser if he doesn't believe in it.

Ajax TFC
10-31-2012, 09:16 AM
Interesting that a few days later, Frings went back to Germany to have hip surgery.
does anyone remember how this was announced? IIRC they never even said how he got injured? one's hip doesn't suddenly become injured while you sleep. Usually when there's a big injury they say "torsten Frings picked up a hip injury in training today. He will undergo x-rays later today to see how sever it is." Instead (if I remember right) we just got told that Frings had flown to Germany to get hip surgery
Alright, I looked through the new history. Here's the first mention of his injury
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/09/injury-hit-tfc-cant-cope-kc

As a result, Toronto fell short in their effort to overcome an absentee list that included forward Eric Hassli, out with a rib injury, midfielder Torsten Frings, who was preparing to travel to Germany for a second opinion on a hip injury,
What injury and how did he get it? Also this is an article written by MLSsoccer.com, not TFC

The first mention by TFC comes in the form of an update:
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/09/torsten-frings-injury-update

Toronto FC announced Wednesday that Captain Torsten Frings will require arthroscopic surgery on his hip and will be out for the remainder of the 2012 season. It is expected that Frings will return for preseason.

Phil
10-31-2012, 09:17 AM
Are you now ready to put the RPB name behind this statement or at least talk about it?

I have been doing plenty of talking about it, but yes.

Richard
10-31-2012, 09:46 AM
I think after what's been said if you're hoping for a coaching change Frings' absence was the most hopeful aspect of the day.

I think it far more important that he's talking to Anselmi than me and supporting Mariner in a presser if he doesn't believe in it.

I sure hope Frings spoke his mind when he had that meeting with Anselmi at the raps game. Im sure Frings does not want PM coaching, best thing to come from that is Anselmi learning some valuable insight on how football should be managed and run. Frings know a thing or two about the game afterall.

cmonyoureds
10-31-2012, 10:11 AM
Most of the players seemed to support Mariner, though Frings and O'Dea were not at the conference. Ryan Johnson expressed reservation. I don't think he's going to be back next season.

Anyone here willing to go on record or in front of a camera and tell the world how much you hate your boss? Then have your boss watch it with you?

Should we really be surprised people who would probably like to continue playing a sport they love for a weekly paycheque aren't exactly forthcoming with more than the status quo answers?

I think if this was one of those infamous "a source says" or "an un-named player" type interviews the answers might have been vastly different.

Belfast_Boy
10-31-2012, 10:18 AM
so a lot of people have been pushed over the edge. from those of us already there, welcome to the party. willing to take 20 minutes and contact these guys and tell them?

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?32976-Letters-and-emails-to-TFC

TOBOR !
10-31-2012, 10:39 AM
allow me to stick this here for your enjoyment :

ZHh0V7UjVXI



We're setting sail to the place on the map
From which no one has ever returned
Drawn by the promise of the joker and the fool
and by the light of the crosses that burn

Drawn by the promise of the women and the lace
And the gold and the cotton and pearls
It's the place where they keep all the darkness you need
You sail away from the light of the world on this trip, baby

You will pay tomorrow
You're gonna pay tomorrow
You will pay tomorrow

Save me, save me from tomorrow
I don't want to sail with this ship of fools, no, no

Oh, save me, save me from tomorrow
I don't want to sail with this ship of fools, no, no

I want to run and hide, right now

Avarice and greed are gonna drive you over the endless sea
They will leave you drifting in the shallows
Drowning in the oceans of history

Travelin' the world, you're in search of no good
But I'm sure you'll build your Sodom, like you knew you would
Using all the good people for your galley slaves
As your little boat struggles through the the warning waves

But you will pay, you will pay tomorrow
You're gonna pay tomorrow, yeah
You gonna pay tomorrow

Save me, save me from tomorrow
I don't want to sail with this ship of fools, no, no

Oh, save me, save me from tomorrow
I don't want to sail with this ship of fools, no, no

Where's it comin' from? Or where's it goin' to?
It's just a, it's just a ship of fools, yeah, oh Lord


This is an excellent song and could suitably be a club anthem as it is, but this bit, looped, is an excellent chant :


Oh, save me, save me from tomorrow
I don't want to sail with this ship of fools, no, no

Belfast_Boy
10-31-2012, 10:56 AM
nice one!

spark
10-31-2012, 11:09 AM
does anyone remember how this was announced? IIRC they never even said how he got injured? one's hip doesn't suddenly become injured while you sleep. Usually when there's a big injury they say "torsten Frings picked up a hip injury in training today. He will undergo x-rays later today to see how sever it is." Instead (if I remember right) we just got told that Frings had flown to Germany to get hip surgery
Alright, I looked through the new history. Here's the first mention of his injury
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/09/injury-hit-tfc-cant-cope-kc

What injury and how did he get it? Also this is an article written by MLSsoccer.com, not TFC

The first mention by TFC comes in the form of an update:
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/09/torsten-frings-injury-update

IIRC it was announced pre-taped/pre-game at an away match on GolTV - it was 1 on 1 Mariner to Godfrey I think. Pretty sure it was the KC game after the Santos Laguna loss where Frings slid out on one of the goals and Mariner criticized him in the media afterwards. That is where the speculation began about the clash between the two.

The injury Frings has (where one needs arthroscopic hip surgery) can be due to long term wear and tear. So it is plausible he was playing injured and that was the longest he could go without needing it. However, Mariner did elude to the fact it was known he was playing injured which doesn't help his case he made him go 90 minutes then gave him shit after.

One other comment in the thread did mention why did he go back to Germany - when I was looking around on this it appears the best places for that kind of surgery are the US and Germany, so again, it does make sense for Frings to go back there if he needed that type of surgery.

nfitz
10-31-2012, 11:26 AM
IIRC it was announced pre-taped/pre-game at an away match on GolTV - it was 1 on 1 Mariner to Godfrey I think. Pretty sure it was the KC game after the Santos Laguna loss where Frings slid out on one of the goals and Mariner criticized him in the media afterwards. That is where the speculation began about the clash between the two.My recollection was that it was live at half-time or something - can't remember which channel but whoever was airing the away game. But that's only a vague memory - you may be correct. But it was something like that.

soccer
10-31-2012, 11:35 AM
Mariner criticized and blamed Frings for the loss right after the game. No speculation on the interaction between Mariner and Frings. It happened in the change room. In the change room is where Frings told Mariner to go f himself.

jloome
10-31-2012, 11:41 AM
I am beginning to believe this as well....they cover the team heavily and really I can't see how they see through the dog and pony show that Mariner and Co. are putting on.......they do get the discussion going for sure.

My experience with sports reporters in general is that this is not the case; in fact, what usually happens is the "Dennis Miller Effect." You might remember that before 9/11, Miller hosted a college-kid favorite late night talk show and was about as centrist as you get. But he jumped like mad onto the right-wing bandwagon after 9/11, so vociferously that it alienated half his viewers and he was stuck with the option of continuing to keep up the front.

Sports reporters are the same in that, once they've made a call in public, you'd have an easier time getting them to divorce their wives than to admit they were wrong. So when Mariner coached us to three wins on the trot, they all wrote "second coming" pieces and he befriended them professionally. I don't mean chummy, I just mean friendly, which is still better than the usual contempt reporters get from subjects and enough to promote bias.

That's all it is. They'll deny it until the day he's fired, then most will just try to change the subject. Some will paint him as the victim even then; it's not about evidence, it's about a belief-based narrative and the willlingness of people to self-delude in order to protect their egos. When that ego is also tied to their livelihood, a key component of someone's sense of security, it's twice the problem.

ensco
10-31-2012, 11:43 AM
You are using the wrong yardstick to measure Anslemi's performance. The people make such calls are looking at financials, not on field results. TFC has been wildly financial off the pitch, and that is why Anslemi got promoted. They could care less about what happens on the pitch.

Of course, what happens on the pitch is detrimental to the long term profits, but that is a different story.

That is why one one hand I think there might be a small ray of hope. I think it's well known at Anselmi's level now that winning is going to be needed to not watch profits nosedive.

But I do agree - Tom deserves no faith. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me what, 6 times now??

It's not about money. TFC were never that successful, they made a couple of million a year, now they break even, next year they'll lose a couple of million. MLSE corporate has EBITDA of, say, $75 million (it was $80 million 4 years ago in a leak to the Star, I'm just guessing now at today's number).

TFC is meaningless to the profit picture for MLSE.

I used to make a joke out of the fact that TFC was obviously being used by MLSE as an executive training ground, but now I see that it's no joke. The Board clearly is investing in Anselmi, given the possibility that he may have to be the CEO and run the Leafs. That is a far, far bigger problem than whatever is going on at TFC, and based on how they act (ie they never act), the Board don't care if Anselmi screws up TFC over and over again - jeez, they welcome it, haha, better to learn all your lessons out of harm's way before you get to the big time.

Everybody from Tanenbaum on down can deny it all they want. I have heard a lifetime's worth of heart-felt speeches from these people.

Based on what they do, the MLSE Board are not running TFC to make TFC great. It's just a management academy for the Leafs, a way to have a Plan B in case they have to fall back on Anselmi and other locals to run the Leafs.

All the rest flows from that. Anselmi won't replace Mariner because it might potentially make him look bad. Hard to say the truth, that the 8th manager in 7 years is a total joke. So Anselmi backs Mariner, and toughs it out. meanwhile, the Board will back Anselmi, until a better option comes along, but of course, since they probably can't agree on anything, the status quo will be maintained, until it it is untenable for the Leafs.

My conclusion is that nothing fundamentally changes for TFC until and unless the Leafs finally go down the tubes financially.

I'm not willing to underwrite this. THIS is why I am almost certainly not renewing.

Kyle_121
10-31-2012, 11:57 AM
I am almost certainly not renewing.

Almost certainly?

Is that like partial zero?

Pookie
10-31-2012, 12:04 PM
^ I'm also not underwriting it either, for those very reasons.

I won't rehash everything I wrote for WakingtheRed on this one but yesterday still has me steamed at the spin coming from these guys.

The essentially said they didn't sign the players and inherited a mess, suggested they had better contacts, yet blamed their losing record on not having the players that Winter had signed.

I'd be fine if they said that they didn't have depth. Winter failed there. He wanted 2 starters for every position. Every GM has failed there. Talk about what you are going to do to provide depth with only 6 available discovery signings.

But they didn't. They appeared to have tried to pin everything on everyone else. Winter's guys. Injuries to key players... hoping I guess that none of us would connect the dots that the key players they were talking about that got hurt were Winter's guys. That their own post-transfer window record was 0-9-4. Or that the idea of "not panicking" to get Hassli for a 1st round pick didn't exactly pan out as the team was 0-5-3 when Hassli played.

The gall to assert they can do better when their trading record is suspect at best. And to end it with the idea that they THINK they can compete for a playoff spot...

Ok, need to count to 10 again.

Full article is here, I can't write anymore on this. http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/10/30/3578796/mariner-and-cochrane-inspiring-no-one-since-2012

ensco
10-31-2012, 12:04 PM
Almost certainly?

Is that like partial zero?

Like Yogi Berra, when I come to a fork in the road, I take it.

What I mean is, I'm not renewing, unless someting dramatic happens during the renewal period that changes my mind. Seems highly unlikely. It's been going in the opposite direction so far.

ag futbol
10-31-2012, 12:19 PM
That's all it is. They'll deny it until the day he's fired, then most will just try to change the subject. Some will paint him as the victim even then; it's not about evidence, it's about a belief-based narrative and the willlingness of people to self-delude in order to protect their egos. When that ego is also tied to their livelihood, a key component of someone's sense of security, it's twice the problem.
agreed, hell They already are changing the subject. First it was Mariner as "the guy", now it's "we need more time to evaluate him".

I'm sure the same people will write about how "it was obvious he wasn't up to the task" when he gets canned.

moralis
10-31-2012, 01:05 PM
Hi guys,

If you have time today please listen to this interview between TSN Radio host Gareth Wheeler and Jason Devos:

It sums up everything wrong with TFC and Jason offers suggestions on how to fix it:

Copy this link to your media player URL: http://iphone.tsn.ca/tsnpodcasts/jd%20oct%2030.mp3

Canary10
10-31-2012, 03:07 PM
so then why the fuck is he our club captain...if he didn't feel the language skills were up to the par, there are professional translators; tfc have used them before

Him not being there speakes volumes about what he thinks of Mariner. You don't put yourself in the position of having to answer difficult questions from the media if you can help it.

cmonyoureds
10-31-2012, 09:40 PM
^ I'm also not underwriting it either, for those very reasons.

I won't rehash everything I wrote for WakingtheRed on this one but yesterday still has me steamed at the spin coming from these guys.

The essentially said they didn't sign the players and inherited a mess, suggested they had better contacts, yet blamed their losing record on not having the players that Winter had signed.

I'd be fine if they said that they didn't have depth. Winter failed there. He wanted 2 starters for every position. Every GM has failed there. Talk about what you are going to do to provide depth with only 6 available discovery signings.

But they didn't. They appeared to have tried to pin everything on everyone else. Winter's guys. Injuries to key players... hoping I guess that none of us would connect the dots that the key players they were talking about that got hurt were Winter's guys. That their own post-transfer window record was 0-9-4. Or that the idea of "not panicking" to get Hassli for a 1st round pick didn't exactly pan out as the team was 0-5-3 when Hassli played.

The gall to assert they can do better when their trading record is suspect at best. And to end it with the idea that they THINK they can compete for a playoff spot...

Ok, need to count to 10 again.

Full article is here, I can't write anymore on this. http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/10/30/3578796/mariner-and-cochrane-inspiring-no-one-since-2012

Aww geez man, you make wayyy to much sense. Sadly there's no place in the vicinity of TFC for that kind of logical, straightforward thinking and accountability.

Auzzy
10-31-2012, 10:11 PM
Hi guys,

If you have time today please listen to this interview between TSN Radio host Gareth Wheeler and Jason Devos:

It sums up everything wrong with TFC and Jason offers suggestions on how to fix it:

Copy this link to your media player URL: http://iphone.tsn.ca/tsnpodcasts/jd oct 30.mp3

Great find, thanks for posting! Great analysis of what's wrong with TFC. Where Jason really loses me, is with some of his suggestions how to fix things. Specifically I think he focuses too much on needing someone Canadian to head up TFC's soccer operation. Jason says this stuff too often -- wasn't he also cheering for Cochrane to be made president up until recently?

I think TFC needs the best candidate as soccer prez. If he's Canadian, great. If the best candidate is someone else with North-American soccer experience, that's OK too. I don't think your president has to be Canadian in order for the club to develop good relations with youth teams and other academies as feeders to TFC.

SirBobSaget
10-31-2012, 10:49 PM
Awesome idea to scout Scandinavia where wages are on par with MLS and players possess a Euro passport. Will have absolutely no trouble at all convincing a scandinavian league standout to leave his family/friends/comfort-zone to play for a damaged club in Canada ... get your ass to Central America if your really into managing and not just on a free ride Mariner.