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Oldtimer
10-21-2012, 08:34 AM
With the drop in Season Ticket prices... will you renew?

London
10-21-2012, 08:38 AM
i was out at the old prices but will renew at $190 bucks. They have earned 1 more year to see if they can right this ship.

i am happy with the discount but kind of feel it is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound

Parkdale
10-21-2012, 08:47 AM
voted yes.

I have two sets of tickets - a pair in 112 and a pair in the prawns. IF there was no price drop, I would have relocated the prawns into a cheaper section. With the revised price, I will keep both pairs where they are.

Toronto_Bhoy
10-21-2012, 09:35 AM
No.

The week after next, I will be flying to Glasgow to see Celtic play Barcelona. That Champions League ticket is $15 cheaper than the cost of yesterday's ticket.

The new ticket price highlights the fact that this product has been over priced from the start. A reduction is no more than desperate ploy to save what little hardcore support they have and avoid the scene of a half empty stadium like we saw yesterday.

They have already taken money from me for 6 years now and they still want me to give them more, just not as much as. What have they offered me in return? Nothing.

Until I see some real change and more importantly, commitment to football, I won't be back. This organization has a lengthy history of promising much and delivering little, MLSE have done this for decades.

I called it the "Bad Boyfriend Syndrome". They treat you like shit but keep coming back to you with flowers and chocolate, telling you, "I'm gonna change, Baby!" Ask a Leaf or Raptor fan how the relationship is going? They have the same boyfriend. Like everybody else I hoped it would be different but really why would it?

It's not that I no longer like TFC, I hope they actually do get better but I won't give Anselmi or MLSE another penny until they show me commitment to football. And to be honest, I just can't see that happening. Another new coach? New Club President? How about a Director of Football?

I refuse to become a Leaf fan in Red.

Parkdale
10-21-2012, 09:39 AM
The week after next, I will be flying to Glasgow to see Celtic play Barcelona. That Champions League ticket is $15 cheaper than the cost of yesterday's ticket.

not to get all freekonomics on you or anything, but what's the price of the plane ticket? It's false economy to think that a Celtic-barca tickets is actually cheaper when you have to go across an ocean to be there.


I understand your point, but had to point out that out.

sidvan
10-21-2012, 09:42 AM
i was out at the old prices but will renew at $190 bucks. They have earned 1 more year to see if they can right this ship.

i am happy with the discount but kind of feel it is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound

This says it all for me.

Toronto_Bhoy
10-21-2012, 09:42 AM
Of course Parky but the price of the ticket is same whether you live in Toronto or Glasgow.

I'm going to visit family and take care of some business in London.

It's still cheaper for me to see Barca than the Impact. Fact.

rowjimi
10-21-2012, 11:30 AM
I am going to give it one more year. I will move my seats from the North Stands and take advantage of some lower pricing. I do this in hopes that we will see a management change very soon and bring in the direction this club needs. Stadium might look funny with a concentration of fans in the cheaper seats while up the middle may be empty. :)

jloome
10-21-2012, 11:35 AM
There's a bad tv commercial on right now that sums up this dilemma for people: when someone offers to sell you a $10 banana for $5, it's still a $5 banana.

nfitz
10-21-2012, 01:02 PM
Of course Parky but the price of the ticket is same whether you live in Toronto or Glasgow.

I'm going to visit family and take care of some business in London.

It's still cheaper for me to see Barca than the Impact. Fact.The Barca game seems to be sold out. The cheapest Spartak Moskva I can find is £40 in what would be their equivalent of 119. More expensive than our Champions League games, but perhaps the cheaper tickets sold out (unlike ours). The season ending game (and the 4 other premium matches) is the most expensive game TFC has this year. Our Champions League games were the cheapest.

Celtic's website indicates that their season tickets start at £466. That's about $CAN 740. That make's our old cheapest seasons at $361 in 2012 (let alone $190 next year) look like a bargain! And this for a league that's currently ranked 26th in Europe? Surely Celtic's tickets are extremely over-priced for the level of competition your seeing. But they are close to sold-out. And that's really what it comes down to. Supply and demand. Toronto can put a crap product on the pitch, and still charge the highest prices in the league, if people are willing to come (think Maple Leafs). But if they stop coming, like TFC, the prices will fall.

Fort York Redcoat
10-21-2012, 03:07 PM
No.

The new ticket price highlights the fact that this product has been over priced from the start. A reduction is no more than desperate ploy to save what little hardcore support they have and avoid the scene of a half empty stadium like we saw yesterday.

Until I see some real change and more importantly, commitment to football, I won't be back. This organization has a lengthy history of promising much and delivering little, MLSE have done this for decades.

It's not that I no longer like TFC, I hope they actually do get better but I won't give Anselmi or MLSE another penny until they show me commitment to football. And to be honest, I just can't see that happening. Another new coach? New Club President? How about a Director of Football?


You say no, you need real change but only define it as a director of football. If they get one before the deadline will you renew? Everything else you say is unquantified.

ensco
10-21-2012, 03:27 PM
I don't know how to figure out the value proposition. The messaging around the plan for 2013 was insufficient. What the hell does "we're reviewing everything at season end" mean?

Tell me what the review shows. Tell me what the management team, and budget, for 2013 are.

Alonso
10-21-2012, 03:38 PM
Voted no.

No, until I see a new President/GM with total control. Meaning Anselmi no longer makes decisions about team operations, staffing, trades, picks, etc...

If my seats cost me $190/each for the year, then I would renew at that price.

DangerRed
10-21-2012, 04:40 PM
I'll likely not buy season seats for another couple years (assuming of course change takes place in the interim). Price drop or not, you'll still be able to get fantastic seats to any game on game day. And as jloome said, they're still trying to sell you a $5 bannana. Bottom line is that next year's team/management is going to look a lot like this year's. To expect different results would be silly, especially when Uncle Paul and The Earl Himself are running the show.

Toronto_Bhoy
10-21-2012, 05:49 PM
The Barca game seems to be sold out. The cheapest Spartak Moskva I can find is £40 in what would be their equivalent of 119. More expensive than our Champions League games, but perhaps the cheaper tickets sold out (unlike ours). The season ending game (and the 4 other premium matches) is the most expensive game TFC has this year. Our Champions League games were the cheapest.

Celtic's website indicates that their season tickets start at £466. That's about $CAN 740. That make's our old cheapest seasons at $361 in 2012 (let alone $190 next year) look like a bargain! And this for a league that's currently ranked 26th in Europe? Surely Celtic's tickets are extremely over-priced for the level of competition your seeing. But they are close to sold-out. And that's really what it comes down to. Supply and demand. Toronto can put a crap product on the pitch, and still charge the highest prices in the league, if people are willing to come (think Maple Leafs). But if they stop coming, like TFC, the prices will fall.

I'm a season ticket holder at Celtic Park. My Barca ticket is £28 which works out about $44.

Rudy
10-21-2012, 05:58 PM
voted yes.

I have two sets of tickets - a pair in 112 and a pair in the prawns. IF there was no price drop, I would have relocated the prawns into a cheaper section. With the revised price, I will keep both pairs where they are.

can you tell me the benefit of having two pairs in separate locations? i have 4 seats together, and i use them to take fam and friends... but ive met quite a few people who have two pairs in separate locations.
thx

nfitz
10-21-2012, 06:11 PM
I'm a season ticket holder at Celtic Park. My Barca ticket is £28 which works out about $44.How much is your season ticket? How does it compare to the cheapest (you probably have better information than I can find).

Still, that seems rather expensive ... TFC season ticket holders were paying $17 for Champions League seats for the cheap seats. For $44 each to our matches, it was Dark Grey.

Though it's all supply and demand. Celtic Champions League games are pretty much sold out.

Toronto_Bhoy
10-21-2012, 06:21 PM
You say no, you need real change but only define it as a director of football. If they get one before the deadline will you renew? Everything else you say is unquantified.

FYR, I think if you read my post I said:


"Until I see some real change and more importantly, commitment to football, I won't be back. This organization has a lengthy history of promising much and delivering little, MLSE have done this for decades."

I have very little confidence in this ownership group. When I heard that MLSE had been awarded the franchise I actually cringed. But at least we had a team and more importantly a park! MLSE's reputation proceeded them and frankly, they didn't disappoint.

It was my 80 year old father who convinced his three sons to "support the home team"! Tough to argue so we did, in the hopes that this might be different but of course, we were wrong. He opted out after Season 4, "This is unwatchable".

I have followed professional football in this country for over 45 years. As a boy in Vancouver going to old Callister Park with 8,000 crammed into an old wooden box that only held 5, watching immigrant British, Italian and Eastern Europeans finding a new life and playing amazing football. Magic! Watching the Whitecaps in the NASL at Empire Staduim. Brilliant! And then coming to Toronto to go to school and seeing Metro-Crotia and Blizzard. Fantastic!

But this? 7 coaches in 6 years, really? Finishing with the worst record in franchise history, really? Another season with no play-offs, really? Tom Anselmi buying support with a slash of ticket prices, really?

Unquantified? You work for MLSE, right?

Parkdale
10-21-2012, 06:28 PM
one pair is for me, in the supporters section, and the other pair is for my friend who often brings his young son to games.

Parkdale
10-21-2012, 06:37 PM
Of course Parky but the price of the ticket is same whether you live in Toronto or Glasgow.

I'm going to visit family and take care of some business in London.

It's still cheaper for me to see Barca than the Impact. Fact.

that would be a fact if you lived there, which you don't. It's still a false economy. A pineapple in Hawaii might cost a quarter, but if it's costs $2 here than THAT is the price of it. I can't fly to Hawaii every time I want a pineapple. The same could be said about a cup of coffee in Columbia or bottle of wine in France.


I know this isn't really the point of the debate, and I agree with you that it sucks that we pay more for D-grade soccer than others pay for A-grade football, but because of where we live - that's the economic reality.

Toronto_Bhoy
10-21-2012, 06:45 PM
And I don't fly to Scotland every time I want to see a live professional football game.

???

Auzzy
10-21-2012, 07:25 PM
There's a bad tv commercial on right now that sums up this dilemma for people: when someone offers to sell you a $10 rotten banana for $5, it's still a $5 rotten banana.

FYP, to translate this ad to the TFC situation.

NoNameboys
10-21-2012, 08:39 PM
I had said i wouldn't renew, but these prices are to tempting. I will renew again. I'm so weak, lol.

jazzy
10-21-2012, 09:04 PM
my tickets will be close to $10 per,...and if my supporting gives a chance and hope to the young men I have met from the academy and presently on our team , then $10 is pretty much nothing to hopefully enjoy their rise in the league (s) here and there. Remember all we have to do is watch. This team and the games could be their career...it is serious for them and they had to live through this SH#@ ....so I really like theses guys and all that they give for what $approx 40,000....They are my hope also for the future......and someday this team or another will work despite MLSE, because there is just too much talent and desire in this country to keep them down ...Hopefully I'll be around to witness witness this. I mean $10 bucks...and go ahead chase tickets for what under $10 per?.....I have better things to do....PS it could be worse we could be in the scottish premier division, I mean who are their actual competion this year??? of course their damn tickets are cheap...like there never has been any problems over the water....

69Chevy396
10-21-2012, 09:17 PM
I couldnt give away my tickets before I cancelled them last season. I doubt there would be any takers half way through next season if I bought into the red ticket sale only to witness another lovely 0-9 start

TFC John
10-21-2012, 09:39 PM
I see no point in explaining my renewal decision on the message boards. You do what you think is best and I'll do what works for me. You can't change my mind and I don't want to try to change yours. This horrible season is finally over (at least at home). It has been exhausting. I'm sick and tired of all the bickering about what I am supposed to do to fix the team's problems. That's not my responsibility; it's theirs. I am a customer. I just have to decide if I am getting adequate value for money. You shouldn't have to read a poll to figure that out.

Auzzy
10-21-2012, 10:49 PM
Despite the price drop, I haven't decided yet. I'll see what the next few weeks bring, until the renewal deadline.

Fort York Redcoat
10-22-2012, 06:21 AM
FYR, I think if you read my post I said:



I have very little confidence in this ownership group. When I heard that MLSE had been awarded the franchise I actually cringed. But at least we had a team and more importantly a park! MLSE's reputation proceeded them and frankly, they didn't disappoint.

It was my 80 year old father who convinced his three sons to "support the home team"! Tough to argue so we did, in the hopes that this might be different but of course, we were wrong. He opted out after Season 4, "This is unwatchable".

I have followed professional football in this country for over 45 years. As a boy in Vancouver going to old Callister Park with 8,000 crammed into an old wooden box that only held 5, watching immigrant British, Italian and Eastern Europeans finding a new life and playing amazing football. Magic! Watching the Whitecaps in the NASL at Empire Staduim. Brilliant! And then coming to Toronto to go to school and seeing Metro-Crotia and Blizzard. Fantastic!

But this? 7 coaches in 6 years, really? Finishing with the worst record in franchise history, really? Another season with no play-offs, really? Tom Anselmi buying support with a slash of ticket prices, really?

Unquantified? You work for MLSE, right?

This is a great story but it didn't say what you want to see (other than past games but we don't have a time machine) but instead an unquantified element. You want to see commitment to football. What does that entail in your opinion? A commitment usually means promises. I have a hard time thinking that's all you need to hear.

Real moves like a new manager and director of football seem to be a common step for people looking for a hint of vision. I'd like to see both of those.

Are there any real moves that would get you back for renewal/seasons?

And btw I think unquantified excuses and promises would be the tools of MLSE when struggling not pointing to specifics to improve, don't you?

brad
10-22-2012, 07:02 AM
I voted no, and a change in management will not sway me. It needs to be changed, but I have no faith in MLSE to actually do it right. I've given them the benefit of the doubt for a number of years, now that's it. It's time for them to deliver, and then I will consider coming back. By deliver, I don't mean a winning team (although that would be nice). I mean putting in a proper footballing structure, with the proper people in place and give it time to flourish and develop into something that shows a future for this club. But I'm not renewing on the promisie or initial exectution of that - I will if they stick to it. Becasue they will just jettison the whole thing if the results are bumpy and they need next years scape goat.

Plus, even with the drop in price I suspect the getting tickets off the secondary market will be just as cheap, if not cheaper.

narduch
10-22-2012, 07:28 AM
Plus, even with the drop in price I suspect the getting tickets off the secondary market will be just as cheap, if not cheaper.

I think you are right.

In fact the price drop probably ensures there will be decent inventory on sites like craiglist or forum ticket exchanges, at reasonable prices.

The price drop means more people than expected will renew. But people will have the same reasons to not attend games unless this team makes an unexpected dramatic turn around. Which under current conditions I can't see happening.

Phil
10-22-2012, 07:45 AM
I voted yes before, I will vote yes again. For personal reasons alone I base my vote.

I would like to see a plan or accountability as far as club direction. The price drop is great but I am more concerned about the revolving door and the constantly changing direction of the on field 'product'.

maninb
10-22-2012, 07:46 AM
Only if the TRIO OF FAIL is gone...which ain't gonna happen...so I'll just pick up single game tickets like this year....there will be plenty of them....

narduch
10-22-2012, 07:48 AM
Has TFC announced the single game pricing? Sorry if I missed it.

This year it was $27 + $41 in the yellows. I'm wondering what it will be next year. Surely they can't sell a $10 ticket for $27 + service charges to the general public.

TOBOR !
10-22-2012, 08:14 AM
I'm out.

Ben - D.O.W.
10-22-2012, 08:28 AM
that would be a fact if you lived there, which you don't. It's still a false economy. A pineapple in Hawaii might cost a quarter, but if it's costs $2 here than THAT is the price of it. I can't fly to Hawaii every time I want a pineapple. The same could be said about a cup of coffee in Columbia or bottle of wine in France.

That's true - unless you happen to be in Hawaii for a family visit/business as was stated, then a pineapple does in fact cost a quarter. If you're in Hawaii just for the pineapple that's one thing, if you're there anyway and decide you want a pineapple that's something completely different.

As for the topic - I'll be back next year. I have this pipedream about bringing my daughter to games reguarly and I think the easiest way to do this is seasons. I think this price decrease has bought them only one more season though.

jabbronies
10-22-2012, 08:47 AM
I voted yes.

I voted on the fence in the last poll. It depended on TFC dropping ticket prices to season 1 pricing. I didn't think they would actually do it and I was ready to drop my tickets.
Then they went and dropped the prices to what I wanted.

I always knew that TFC would be shitty soccer. I never imagined I would care as much as I do now about how crappy our team is.
At the time I bought my tickets, Season 1 pricing was acceptable for me because I knew it would be a place I could go to on a Saturday Afternoon and talk footy with other people while we laughed at how bad local footy was. As the price increased, it became more clear to me that I was wasting my money, but continued on because of the friendships I made with the other people around me.

Joe Kool
10-22-2012, 08:50 AM
I voted last time I was going to be out but since it dropped to $190 per seat for me I will pick them up again I think for at least another year. I really didn't want to lose my seats because I love where I am and who I sit with but financially it wasn't going to make sense for me if the prices stayed the same. I want change for the team too and there will be change as there always is...good or bad...who knows. The main stumbling block for me was always price. I am not ready to give up on the team yet even though it is a tough go these days being a TFC fan...

sulfur
10-22-2012, 08:54 AM
Has TFC announced the single game pricing? Sorry if I missed it.
Single seats same price as this year. Only SSH get the "Deal".

Auzzy
10-22-2012, 09:22 AM
Has TFC announced the single game pricing? Sorry if I missed it.

This year it was $27 + $41 in the yellows. I'm wondering what it will be next year. Surely they can't sell a $10 ticket for $27 + service charges to the general public.


Single seats same price as this year. Only SSH get the "Deal".

Where is the single seat info from? On the season ticket renewal page, they mention that there will be "dynamic" pricing for single tickets next year. Under 06 Payment: "Dynamic Pricing determines the single ticket selling price on Ticketmaster, based on factors such as market demand, day of week, opponent, and time of year."

So I can't imagine the prices being the exact same as this year. Perhaps the initial target price will be the same, but it will vary I guess. If the team is as bad as this year, probably the single ticket prices will be lower, especially for the poorly-attended games.

v00d00daddy
10-22-2012, 10:25 AM
The prices went down because attendance has been down and people have already been dropping seats over the last couple years.

So, if/when TFC start to see a decent renewal they'll be very happy.

So I don't think any other changes will be coming. As in, mariner and co being fired.

That's why I won't renew.

It seems that the only thing that inspires change in our FO is people staying home.

I didn't think 180 bucks would be enough to sway people who were sitting on the fence.

Oh well.

flatpicker
10-22-2012, 10:31 AM
The prices went down because attendance has been down and people have already been dropping seats over the last couple years.

So, if/when TFC start to see a decent renewal they'll be very happy.

So I don't think any other changes will be coming. As in, mariner and co being fired.

That's why I won't renew.

It seems that the only thing that inspires change in our FO is people staying home.

I didn't think 180 bucks would be enough to sway people who were sitting on the fence.

Oh well.

I understand where you are coming from.
Reducing prices is not the solution to this teams problems.

That said, I think it suggests something positive...
The team knows they are in trouble and something needs to be done.
Reducing prices just helps keep people on board while they make the necessary changes.
There's no way the club isn't working hard to turn their fortunes around.
They know that it will be a complete disaster if they don't start winning.

For that reason, I will renew with the hope that they are making their best effort to fix things.
I may not have renewed (or at least dropped one seat) if they had not dropped prices.

prizby
10-22-2012, 10:44 AM
too bad renewals don't have the option to wait and see the offseason moves first

you wouldn't buy the 2014 xyz car now without even seeing it

cmonyoureds
10-22-2012, 10:51 AM
That's true - unless you happen to be in Hawaii for a family visit/business as was stated, then a pineapple does in fact cost a quarter. If you're in Hawaii just for the pineapple that's one thing, if you're there anyway and decide you want a pineapple that's something completely different.

As for the topic - I'll be back next year. I have this pipedream about bringing my daughter to games reguarly and I think the easiest way to do this is seasons. I think this price decrease has bought them only one more season though.

Season 6 - "Reducing Support To Only The Certifiably Insane"
Season 7 - "How you like them Pineapples"

I'd sign up for Pineapples at $190 a year. I won't be able to. Whatever the poll says, these will be sold out. I'm not paying the higher prices for Pineapples from a different section of the farm.

narduch
10-22-2012, 10:53 AM
too bad renewals don't have the option to wait and see the offseason moves first

you wouldn't buy the 2014 xyz car now without even seeing it

That makes me think of the 'free' jersey with the credit card offer.

How do we know it won't be ugly? What if it ends up being that stupid bra strap jersey?

Ben - D.O.W.
10-22-2012, 10:59 AM
Season 6 - "Reducing Support To Only The Certifiably Insane"
Season 7 - "How you like them Pineapples"

I'd sign up for Pineapples at $190 a year. I won't be able to. Whatever the poll says, these will be sold out. I'm not paying the higher prices for Pineapples from a different section of the farm.

Come back to 111 - the pineapples are only slightly more expensive.

prizby
10-22-2012, 11:01 AM
Has TFC announced the single game pricing? Sorry if I missed it.

This year it was $27 + $41 in the yellows. I'm wondering what it will be next year. Surely they can't sell a $10 ticket for $27 + service charges to the general public.


Single seats same price as this year. Only SSH get the "Deal".


Where is the single seat info from? On the season ticket renewal page, they mention that there will be "dynamic" pricing for single tickets next year. Under 06 Payment: "Dynamic Pricing determines the single ticket selling price on Ticketmaster, based on factors such as market demand, day of week, opponent, and time of year."

So I can't imagine the prices being the exact same as this year. Perhaps the initial target price will be the same, but it will vary I guess. If the team is as bad as this year, probably the single ticket prices will be lower, especially for the poorly-attended games.

If you look at the season seat package under payment options...the final 'option' (not really an option) is called dynamic pricing...they have introduced this with the Raptors this season...basically it means that games will be sold at $27 (supporters section), but as the games get closer to the date, they have a computer system that analyzes everything from weather, how the team is doing in the season, kickoff time, to how ticket sales are going, to what are tickets on the secondary market (stub hub etc..) are selling at, and the game day price will be readjusted to reflect the market demand; (tfc has put a fail switch in, to make sure season ticket holders do not get undercut, meaning season ticket price; the $27 ticket costing SSH $10, will never be individually sold by TFC at that price or lower)...at the same time, should ticket sales for whatever reason be going well (ala beckham), the system is designed to raise prices as well...basically we will see single game ticket sales try to best maximize the most revenue

narduch
10-22-2012, 11:38 AM
Dynamic pricing is a great way to piss off your customers.

Fort York Redcoat
10-22-2012, 11:48 AM
too bad renewals don't have the option to wait and see the offseason moves first

you wouldn't buy the 2014 xyz car now without even seeing it


That makes me think of the 'free' jersey with the credit card offer.

How do we know it won't be ugly? What if it ends up being that stupid bra strap jersey?

Yes. Sports renewals now with gauranteed success and time machines (2014 Delorean?)

DangerRed
10-22-2012, 11:54 AM
Dynamic pricing is a natural evolution of Tom's "market demand" commentary when it comes to TFC, so no big surprise.

Thing is dynamic pricing doesn't factor in street scalper pricing...

cmonyoureds
10-22-2012, 12:01 PM
If you look at the season seat package under payment options...the final 'option' (not really an option) is called dynamic pricing...they have introduced this with the Raptors this season...basically it means that games will be sold at $27 (supporters section), but as the games get closer to the date, they have a computer system that analyzes everything from weather, how the team is doing in the season, kickoff time, to how ticket sales are going, to what are tickets on the secondary market (stub hub etc..) are selling at, and the game day price will be readjusted to reflect the market demand; (tfc has put a fail switch in, to make sure season ticket holders do not get undercut, meaning season ticket price; the $27 ticket costing SSH $10, will never be individually sold by TFC at that price or lower)...at the same time, should ticket sales for whatever reason be going well (ala beckham), the system is designed to raise prices as well...basically we will see single game ticket sales try to best maximize the most revenue


Jeepers Murphy,

They can do all that research/marketing/analytics/legalized witchcraft/dart throwing to figure out the $'s and pennies. However we seem to hire the managers based on people taking a number and yelling "next", only after the "we'll get to that manager guy in the off-season" approach.

Should indicate something about the priorities here, shouldn't it?

prizby
10-22-2012, 12:06 PM
Jeepers Murphy,

They can do all that research/marketing/analytics/legalized witchcraft/dart throwing to figure out the $'s and pennies. However we seem to hire the managers based on people taking a number and yelling "next", only after the "we'll get to that manager guy in the off-season" approach.

Should indicate something about the priorities here, shouldn't it?

they don't do it, they have bought a system, likely Qcue or one of their competitors that does the work for them

Belfast_Boy
10-22-2012, 01:20 PM
was thinking about how things would have changed.

very interesting..... money talks, bs....... how does it go?

for the record I was renewing before the price drop.

Initial B
10-22-2012, 01:35 PM
Just a quick question to see if this would modify the answers to the poll:

How many of you would renew if you knew that Cochrane was the next TFC President?

I have this nagging suspicion that as soon as SSH renewals are completed, Anselmi is going to announce Cochrane is the new Prez. Isn't there some saying about a rizing tide lifting boats?

If that's the case, you'd better make sure you ask you representatives whether you can ask for a SSH refund...

narduch
10-22-2012, 01:41 PM
Cochrane is only a pariah on supporter forums.

The general season ticket holder probably has no idea who he is.

Belfast_Boy
10-22-2012, 01:45 PM
if that happened the number outside Gate 4 would be bigger.

I'm sticking around. I'll continue to be a pain in the ass until they get it right.

Alonso
10-22-2012, 01:46 PM
Dynamic pricing is a natural evolution of Tom's "market demand" commentary when it comes to TFC, so no big surprise.

Thing is dynamic pricing doesn't factor in street scalper pricing...


It just occurred to me that this ticket reduction for renewals and not single game tickets, using this dynamic pricing was probably mostly (or at least in part) an attempt to reward and get the scalpers to all renew there tickets since they will be picking up $10 tickets with a $20 face value for example.

That can be very tempting for a scalper. Guarantees a larger profit on a sold ticket at face value. Helps muddy the water on the value of a ticket for the average Joe.

narduch
10-22-2012, 01:50 PM
TFC FO must have received a few complaints over all the Groupon/travelzoo type sales.

Adding that disclaimer is a way to let the SSH know they are always paying the least.

v00d00daddy
10-22-2012, 02:15 PM
It just occurred to me that this ticket reduction for renewals and not single game tickets, using this dynamic pricing was probably mostly (or at least in part) an attempt to reward and get the scalpers to all renew there tickets since they will be picking up $10 tickets with a $20 face value for example.

That can be very tempting for a scalper. Guarantees a larger profit on a sold ticket at face value. Helps muddy the water on the value of a ticket for the average Joe.

I'd imagine that the club wants as many of the 190 dollar seasons seat holders to renew to avoid giving the ssh with more expensive seats the option to downgrade.

That was another reason why I decided not to renew.

They made the cheapest seats the most attractive discount not to reward the supporters section people but to avoid giving people with more expensive seats too many options to downgrade.

I'm sorry...but anybody who thinks that the fo slashed supporters seats prices out of the goodness of their hearts and to reward the supporters is kidding themselves.

Do they really think we've forgotten that the supporters seats doubled in price in 5 years? Lol

brad
10-22-2012, 02:24 PM
TFC FO must have received a few complaints over all the Groupon/travelzoo type sales.

Adding that disclaimer is a way to let the SSH know they are always paying the least.

I raised this when I got the call from my rep. I said I found it insulting that they undercut their most loyal customers. She sounded like she had heard this before.

brad
10-22-2012, 02:36 PM
I'd imagine that the club wants as many of the 190 dollar seasons seat holders to renew to avoid giving the ssh with more expensive seats the option to downgrade.

The beauty of the renewal process (for them) is that there is no transparency, and nothing says they have to release all the un-renewed tickets back to the relocation event. I can't see them allowing all the cheaper tickets for relocation, and create the potential for a further massive revenue drop when people downgrade their tickets en mass.

For them, the best thing to do would be release enough cheap tickets at relocation to avoid raising suspicion and then re-sell the rest to potential new STH's at full price.

bones
10-22-2012, 02:38 PM
I voted yes. I think the price increase over the years was a bit much and I gladly take this reduction. I'm hoping they make major changes in FO/mgmt but I somehow doubt it will get all the people that need to be changed. Let's just hope it's enough to make progress this year.

One thing that will change this year is my choice on tickets I can't use. I own a pair of seats and most of the time my daughter can't make it and there's even the odd time where I can't make a game. This year those tickets will go unused period. I will not be offering them to fellow RPB as there are so many here that were very adamant about how it's so easy to find cheaper tickets on the day of the game. Sorry to those, but you're not getting my seats discounted any more.

Looking at the poll it seems many people are happy with the price reset. I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt about leadership changes for this year as it seems many are too.

Alonso
10-22-2012, 02:41 PM
The beauty of the renewal process (for them) is that there is no transparency, and nothing says they have to release all the un-renewed tickets back to the relocation event. I can't see them allowing all the cheaper tickets for relocation, and create the potential for a further massive revenue drop when people downgrade their tickets en mass.

For them, the best thing to do would be release enough cheap tickets at relocation to avoid raising suspicion and then re-sell the rest to potential new STH's at full price.

This is very possible, and I suspect is the case.

And why I'm not renewing counting on a relocation.

I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.

nfitz
10-22-2012, 02:48 PM
They made the cheapest seats the most attractive discount not to reward the supporters section people but to avoid giving people with more expensive seats too many options to downgrade.

I'm sorry...but anybody who thinks that the fo slashed supporters seats prices out of the goodness of their hearts and to reward the supporters is kidding themselves.I agree - though I think wanting to keep supporters strong may be a factor. Not so much because they love us, but because it helps them sell to sponsors. What BMO alone is paying has almost tripled since 2007 - and the increase is far larger that the $ that this discount will cost them.

v00d00daddy
10-22-2012, 02:57 PM
I agree - though I think wanting to keep supporters strong may be a factor. Not so much because they love us, but because it helps them sell to sponsors. What BMO alone is paying has almost tripled since 2007 - and the increase is far larger that the $ that this discount will cost them[/QUOTE]

Oh I think you're right that they want to be able to continue to market the supporters.

I just find it strange that people are reaping the rewards of a price decrease and renewing but failing to realise that it was those who decided not to renew after 2010 and 2011 that won the price drop.

Wouldn't it have been great to get every ssh to forgoe renewing? Imagine their reaction then?

Or at the very least renew on the very last day.

Instead people are getting credit cards to get free jerseys or renewing before the worst season in the last 6 years is even over.

No wonder they raised ticket prices on us every year.

nfitz
10-22-2012, 03:02 PM
I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.Last year was only my second relocation, and I picked up a ticket in 116. I seem to recall there being pairs in 118, and lots in 119 and 127 (though perhaps that's not what you mean by supporters).

Though those that got their first seasons last year in light-blue, might be challenged to move to anything other than medium-grey. But who knows - based on the poll above, there's going to be a lot of availability. My gut feel is that they'll sell similar or better this year than last. But I'm often wrong.

bones
10-22-2012, 03:05 PM
This is very possible, and I suspect is the case.

And why I'm not renewing counting on a relocation.

I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.

Hmmm, originally I was going to say that I don't blame you because I got screwed for years doing this same thing in Raptors land. I had to cancel my tickets and then wait 2 months for a new sales rep to call me all bright eyed and bushy tailed wondering why I didn't renew. After telling him that I needed to move seats and I'm not falling for that seat relocation empty promise again he found me seats where I wanted to be. HOWEVER, in this case, if you don't get them this year and wait, you may not get the discount and that is a big difference.

BUT, the original Hmmmm above was because of a more interesting thought. How are ML$E going to deal with 2 different sets of pricing scales going forward? I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

Belfast_Boy
10-22-2012, 03:17 PM
Oh I think you're right that they want to be able to continue to market the supporters.

I just find it strange that people are reaping the rewards of a price decrease and renewing but failing to realise that it was those who decided not to renew after 2010 and 2011 that won the price drop.

Wouldn't it have been great to get every ssh to forgoe renewing? Imagine their reaction then?

Or at the very least renew on the very last day.

Instead people are getting credit cards to get free jerseys or renewing before the worst season in the last 6 years is even over.

No wonder they raised ticket prices on us every year.[/QUOTE]



I don't think it's that simple.

yes people cancelling had something to do with it. but that isn't the only factor.

this past season was a disaster. MLSE had to know that renewals would be in the shitter.

the structure of the organization was the problem and they heard that from multiple directions. if they are going to fix the structure it won't happen overnight. What they could do quickly (probably took weeks to arrange) is drop prices.

This years first day renewals have been the best to date. holding off will have no effect. they are losing a tonne of cash but they have managed to dodge a bullet.

Joe Kool
10-22-2012, 03:32 PM
Hmmm, originally I was going to say that I don't blame you because I got screwed for years doing this same thing in Raptors land. I had to cancel my tickets and then wait 2 months for a new sales rep to call me all bright eyed and bushy tailed wondering why I didn't renew. After telling him that I needed to move seats and I'm not falling for that seat relocation empty promise again he found me seats where I wanted to be. HOWEVER, in this case, if you don't get them this year and wait, you may not get the discount and that is a big difference.

BUT, the original Hmmmm above was because of a more interesting thought. How are ML$E going to deal with 2 different sets of pricing scales going forward? I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the pricing going forward for sure. Before this two-tier pricing they have put into place now I always felt that they could keep a certain price available for new STH's but for the rest of us that have had seasons for awhile they should give a percentage reduction, up to a maximum percentage off, based on how many years you have maintained seasons. New STH's get 30% discount....people who reach the 3 year mark get 35%...6 years then 40%. Just throwing numbers out there so nobody knit pick what I put but just giving an example of the idea. It gives long time season ticket holders a valid reward I think for years of support. I don't think the year one pricing scheme will last more than one season unless we are in the basement again this time next year.

narduch
10-22-2012, 03:33 PM
I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

This is a great point.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

One thing is certain, if 1 year for now they think they can go back to $361 per seat in the south end again they are insane.

Belfast_Boy
10-22-2012, 03:47 PM
if you renew and relocate, do we get the new price?

Alonso
10-22-2012, 03:55 PM
if you renew and relocate, do we get the new price?


Yes.

And if you were previously a SSH but aren't now, you get the new price as well.

brad
10-22-2012, 04:00 PM
Last year was only my second relocation, and I picked up a ticket in 116. I seem to recall there being pairs in 118, and lots in 119 and 127 (though perhaps that's not what you mean by supporters).

127 had a lot of tickets one year as well.

69Chevy396
10-22-2012, 04:05 PM
With the decrease in gate revenue do any of you trully believe MLSE makes the necessary investments in the team? Does 2007 prices = 2007 player contracts? Now, when the team flounders management screams lower revenue. You can bet on this.

Yohan
10-22-2012, 06:43 PM
With the decrease in gate revenue do any of you trully believe MLSE makes the necessary investments in the team? Does 2007 prices = 2007 player contracts? Now, when the team flounders management screams lower revenue. You can bet on this.

I don't have a problem with not having DPs (pretty much moot point for next year), because I find overemphasis on DPs tend to distract teams from building a competitive team from ground up. (see RSL, SKC)

Dave67
10-22-2012, 06:44 PM
if you renew and relocate, do we get the new price?

Yes, and if you previously cancelled seasons seats (2011 for sure, 2010 not sure) you get the new price if you come back.

Belfast_Boy
10-22-2012, 07:03 PM
Yes.

And if you were previously a SSH but aren't now, you get the new price as well.


Yes, and if you previously cancelled seasons seats (2011 for sure, 2010 not sure) you get the new price if you come back.

that's frigging excellent! now I just need two or three in 111 or 112. yeah I know...... not a hope.

Pookie
10-22-2012, 09:05 PM
Hmmm, originally I was going to say that I don't blame you because I got screwed for years doing this same thing in Raptors land. I had to cancel my tickets and then wait 2 months for a new sales rep to call me all bright eyed and bushy tailed wondering why I didn't renew. After telling him that I needed to move seats and I'm not falling for that seat relocation empty promise again he found me seats where I wanted to be. HOWEVER, in this case, if you don't get them this year and wait, you may not get the discount and that is a big difference.

BUT, the original Hmmmm above was because of a more interesting thought. How are ML$E going to deal with 2 different sets of pricing scales going forward? I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

I wouldn't over think it.

If I am a new seat holder this year, I may pay more than you did for your renewal. But next year, I will be paying the same renewal price that you are.

Going forward, both prices will increase.

jazzy
10-22-2012, 10:57 PM
This is very possible, and I suspect is the case.

And why I'm not renewing counting on a relocation.

I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.

not sure about that....we moved 2 years ago and there were quite a few in light greys and a few in yellow..AND we were the only people wanting them,..lol....and I'd be very surprised if this year there weren't more available......wife and I love our seats.....cheap and close to the action ...if we didn't we'd simply go every year.........I'm sure in 111 where we are there will be some, but of course it all comes down to timing

Suds
10-23-2012, 06:34 AM
I had already decided to renew before the announced price drop.

brad
10-23-2012, 06:57 AM
not sure about that....we moved 2 years ago and there were quite a few in light greys and a few in yellow..AND we were the only people wanting them,..lol....and I'd be very surprised if this year there weren't more available......wife and I love our seats.....cheap and close to the action ...if we didn't we'd simply go every year.........I'm sure in 111 where we are there will be some, but of course it all comes down to timing

I'm not so sure about that.

The availability of the cheaper tickets is going to depend on the sales & expected demand of the more expensive ones. If the renewals on the expensive tickets are down, and they expect demand for the more expensive seats, do you think they will open a up a large amount for cheaper seats for people to move into? I certainly don't. I expect they would open up enough so that some folks can move, and to alleviate any suspicions people might have about the relocation, and then sell the rest to new STH's at full price.

The question is - why would MLSE let people that have already committed to expensive seats move to the cheap seats wholesale?

TOBOR !
10-23-2012, 07:48 AM
Here's a question for you : what do you suppose SSH renewal prices will be next year ? Year 2 prices (with the exception of those who are buying in for the first time now) ? Or perhaps something closer to regular/current prices ?

Obviously it's too soon to tell, as no doubt it'll be based on team performance, but I wonder what MLSE's overall strategy is here. Do they drop the price for one season to keep the renewal numbers up with the intention of returning them to where they would normally be ASAP ? Most likely. And in which case they'd need performance on the pitch to be able to justify it.

In this regard it will benefit them to get rid of Mariner - or at least get him off the bench.

Suds
10-23-2012, 08:02 AM
^^
Prices will eventually go up regardless of performance. Costs will rise as TFC will need to raise additional revenue to cover the costs. The question is at what rate and percentage they will go up.

Pookie
10-23-2012, 08:24 AM
^^
Prices will eventually go up regardless of performance. Costs will rise as TFC will need to raise additional revenue to cover the costs. The question is at what rate and percentage they will go up.

I feel as though there is a fundamental shift in their pricing strategy. In the past, the market was defined as the Toronto sports market.

Now, with the exposure that we have given to ticket prices across the league and the outcry that followed decreases in Montreal and Vancouver it is clear that they do not operate in a vacuum. Add the revenue share element to this and there is no reason for the league to expect Toronto to subsidize its operations. For that reason, I feel that TFC will tend to price itself in the middle of the pack relative to the league.

Don't overlook the dynamic ticket pricing angle to this either, for single game ticket buyers. They can still profit huge from Beckham games, playoff implication games and other stars. I think that is the right direction to go.

prizby
10-23-2012, 08:36 AM
Dynamic pricing is a great way to piss off your customers.

how does it piss of your customers...its PROVEN to work, and work effectively

prizby
10-23-2012, 08:43 AM
Dynamic pricing is a natural evolution of Tom's "market demand" commentary when it comes to TFC, so no big surprise.

Thing is dynamic pricing doesn't factor in street scalper pricing...

actually it does...but in the perspective of the secondary markets like a stub hub or other resell sites



It just occurred to me that this ticket reduction for renewals and not single game tickets, using this dynamic pricing was probably mostly (or at least in part) an attempt to reward and get the scalpers to all renew there tickets since they will be picking up $10 tickets with a $20 face value for example.

That can be very tempting for a scalper. Guarantees a larger profit on a sold ticket at face value. Helps muddy the water on the value of a ticket for the average Joe.

sadly, one of the first things I thought of...i saw scalpers getting tickets on Saturday from the cops by the GO station

brad
10-23-2012, 08:49 AM
I think it's impossible to guess what future increases will be. I think they learned their lesson about cranking prices to high for a terrible product and will favor smaller increases if we continue to be bad. If we some how get good, I think all bets are off. If the team is playing well, and demand seems to be back, I'd expect more dramatic price hikes.

One thing I do suspect they will do is keep the supporters ends artificially low, regardless. They do not make much money directly from those ticket sales compared to the rest of the stadium so an increase won't net them much more money. By jacking those tickets up, they alienate the folks that make the atmosphere they sell and endanger that. I'm sure they are also not blind to the fact that if anyone is going to mobilize and raise a stink/protest/create negative publicity around future price hikes, it's going to likely be the folks in south end.

Does anyone think that prices would have been a hot button issue for supporters groups if they had jacked prices up massively across the stadium but kept the supporters sections artificially cheap? I certainly don't. Past experience has shown me that most folks in the supporters groups don't really care all that much about what happens outside the supporters sections.

DangerRed
10-23-2012, 08:58 AM
actually it does...but in the perspective of the secondary markets like a stub hub or other resell sites


So then it doesn't - at all. You can't negotiate with stubhub. That's why I specifically called out street scalpers. But whatevs, thanks for pitching in!

prizby
10-23-2012, 09:06 AM
So then it doesn't - at all. You can't negotiate with stubhub. That's why I specifically called out street scalpers. But whatevs, thanks for pitching in!

secodary resell sites still fit under 'scalpers' because they tickets are not sold at face value; and while you may not negotiate, the people selling tickets will adjust their prices if they need to

and scalpers do use them to sell tickets, they don't just sit with their tickets until gameday

Pookie
10-23-2012, 09:23 AM
Dynamic pricing is a "fairer" way to administer the "Premium Game" pricing that we see in virtually every sport market. As demand for a game increases, the price of a single ticket also increases. As demand for a game drops, so too does the price but not to levels lower than STH prices.

This creates value for the season ticket holder in that they are assured, barring a "red flag deal" type promotion, of the lowest price on a seat. It also increases their chances to resell a ticket on the secondary market as their "cost" will be below the going face value of a new ticket.

It may not sound fair for the single game buyer but we see elements of this already. If you were a single game buyer and want to see Beckham, your ticket cost you more. If you want to see the Puerto Rico Islanders, your ticket cost you less. The home opener costs more than a midseason game against Chivas.

I'm not necessarily a fan of premium game/dynamic pricing but it is here to stay and if it is, it makes sense for the team to maximize its revenue off of those that are looking for an "event" (ie. those Arsenal fans looking to see Henry) vs those that are in it for the long haul.

narduch
10-23-2012, 09:32 AM
how does it piss of your customers...its PROVEN to work, and work effectively

Customers get pissed when they discover others have paid less for a ticket than they paid.

prizby
10-23-2012, 09:45 AM
Customers get pissed when they discover others have paid less for a ticket than they paid.

you may not have noticed, but TFC will have put a minimum floor price on tickets, so no matter what happens, the price won't drop below x amount (meaning season ticket holders will have paid the least amount)

if you are referring to other single game ticket buyers, unless a fan is going up to every other fan and asking, what did you pay, what did you pay, then its not that big of a deal...in the end, we are talking about single game ticket buyers and if they are 'pissed' about the price, then that is more of an incentive for them to buy season tickets so they can get the lowest guaranteed price per game.

The fact of the matter is, in the current market, there is a greater fan acceptance to real-time pricing in sports

narduch
10-23-2012, 09:47 AM
you may not have noticed, but TFC will have put a minimum floor price on tickets, so no matter what happens, the price won't drop below x amount (meaning season ticket holders will have paid the least amount)

I know that. (I may have been the first person to post that fact on this forum)

Its not just season ticket holders that I am talking about here.

Besides the floor is meaningless in regards to my point. If somebody pays full price on the day singles go on sale, only to find out that the price dropped closer to match day, they will not be happy.

This happens with concerts all the time.

prizby
10-23-2012, 10:05 AM
I know that. (I may have been the first person to post that fact on this forum)

Its not just season ticket holders that I am talking about here.

Besides the floor is meaningless in regards to my point. If somebody pays full price on the day singles go on sale, only to find out that the price dropped closer to match day, they will not be happy.

This happens with concerts all the time.

see my edit above...its a mute point though

narduch
10-23-2012, 10:06 AM
see my edit above...its a mute point though

Its not. You are just downplaying it.

Pookie
10-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Its not. You are just downplaying it.

I'm not sure he is downplaying it. Single game buyers already know that they are paying more (or should be) paying more than season ticket holders.

prizby
10-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Its not. You are just downplaying it.

not at all...you don't have to agree, but the facts are dynamic pricing increase revenue, increase ticket sales, and it is proven to work

Oldtimer
10-23-2012, 10:16 AM
secodary resell sites still fit under 'scalpers' because they tickets are not sold at face value; and while you may not negotiate, the people selling tickets will adjust their prices if they need to

and scalpers do use them to sell tickets, they don't just sit with their tickets until gameday

Stubhub sellers can adjust their prices at any time. They can also use features like "the price declines by X until the tickets are sold." So it is pretty well a free market. You don't have to be a scalper to sell on there (I sold tickets for face value there twice), but 90%+ of the sellers are.

Pookie
10-23-2012, 10:55 AM
Stubhub sellers can adjust their prices at any time. They can also use features like "the price declines by X until the tickets are sold." So it is pretty well a free market. You don't have to be a scalper to sell on there (I sold tickets for face value there twice), but 90%+ of the sellers are.

And when you combine corporate deals between StubHub and leagues like the NHL, you can see why scalping (for profit) is allegedly never enforced.

bones
10-23-2012, 12:57 PM
So technically speaking, what's the loop hole that Ticketbastard uses since they own Stubhub to NOT get charged with scalping? If they originally sell a ticket to someone who sells it back to them for them to sell at a higher price than original, is that not the definition of scalping?

narduch
10-23-2012, 01:00 PM
So technically speaking, what's the loop hole that Ticketbastard uses since they own Stubhub to NOT get charged with scalping? If they originally sell a ticket to someone who sells it back to them for them to sell at a higher price than original, is that not the definition of scalping?

Ebay owns Stub Hub.

Ticketmaster owns Tickets Now, and there was a little bit of controversy for that site a few years back, but it has passed.

How do they get away with it? Authorities don't give a shit. Besides, the people putting on the events (sports teams, concert promoters, etc.) LOVE scalpers.

Pookie
10-23-2012, 02:10 PM
So technically speaking, what's the loop hole that Ticketbastard uses since they own Stubhub to NOT get charged with scalping? If they originally sell a ticket to someone who sells it back to them for them to sell at a higher price than original, is that not the definition of scalping?

Well, I'm not a lawyer but I believe that the user agreement puts the risk squarely on the seller. For example on Stubhub, they state:

When setting the sale price of your tickets, it is your responsibility to comply with all applicable local, state, federal, and international laws, statutes, and regulations.


Certain U.S. states, Canadian provinces, and municipalities have ticket resale regulations. Regulations differ by location and may apply to different aspects of ticket resale. For example, some laws may regulate the resale price, require you to be a licensed reseller or require you to provide certain disclosures. Below is a basic list with some of these regulations. This is not an all-inclusive list of the laws that may apply to you or your actions. Although we try to keep this information up to date, it's your responsibility to check the laws where you reside and where the venue is located. It's also up to you to determine if any of these laws or any other laws apply to you. You should review the laws that are applicable to you to determine if or how the law applies to you or the tickets you are listing for sale.

So, when you list your tickets, you have to sign off that you comply with local regulations. They simply make a percentage of the final purchase price, which you have warranted is compliant with local laws. If it turns out you sold them for a profit, that's your risk. They simply take a percentage of the sale.

glaze
10-23-2012, 03:13 PM
Plus outside BMO it isn't a factor as tickets are being sold for less than cost these days. Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.
That said, the guys must be doing something right as its been the same scampers outside every Toronto concert and sporting venue for years.
As with anything pricing is supply and demand. My issue with ticketing is more geared to teams and promoters holding back large blocks of seats or setting them aside for insiders rather than making them available to the general public. Even tfc does this, as not all the seats in all the sections are available for ssh purchase. This will be especially interesting for this years relocation

ryan
10-23-2012, 05:01 PM
Plus outside BMO it isn't a factor as tickets are being sold for less than cost these days. Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.
That said, the guys must be doing something right as its been the same scampers outside every Toronto concert and sporting venue for years.
As with anything pricing is supply and demand. My issue with ticketing is more geared to teams and promoters holding back large blocks of seats or setting them aside for insiders rather than making them available to the general public. Even tfc does this, as not all the seats in all the sections are available for ssh purchase. This will be especially interesting for this years relocation

Pisses me off to no end how many seats in 111 are held off from SSH purchase. I had 2 "partial packs" there for 2 full seasons, they wouldn't let me retain the same fucking seats I and only I used for 2 seasons.

Gotta sell the newbs on the south end atmosphere ya know.

bones
10-23-2012, 09:30 PM
Plus outside BMO it isn't a factor as tickets are being sold for less than cost these days. Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.
That said, the guys must be doing something right as its been the same scampers outside every Toronto concert and sporting venue for years.
As with anything pricing is supply and demand. My issue with ticketing is more geared to teams and promoters holding back large blocks of seats or setting them aside for insiders rather than making them available to the general public. Even tfc does this, as not all the seats in all the sections are available for ssh purchase. This will be especially interesting for this years relocation

I think it's pretty common knowledge there's a scalping ring. Go to one guy and ask for something outrageous or super lowball and he's on his earpiece to the others alerting of a potential major request or blackball. Seen it many times and I just laugh at them or ignore them.

As for the "reasonable markup" this very site has done it by charging "face value". Buy seasons and you don't come close to paying "face value". I know I've been told that it's "accepted practice" on this site to charge up to face value but ... I always thought that was pathetic and that's my opinion. I think some people would even want to push the envelope and say they wanted to recoop the Ticketbastard fee if they had to pay it.

brad
10-24-2012, 07:38 AM
As for the "reasonable markup" this very site has done it by charging "face value". Buy seasons and you don't come close to paying "face value". I know I've been told that it's "accepted practice" on this site to charge up to face value but ... I always thought that was pathetic and that's my opinion. I think some people would even want to push the envelope and say they wanted to recoop the Ticketbastard fee if they had to pay it.

Face value is commonly accepted as ticket cost + fees for that ticket, seeing the idea is to recoup what you paid, not to make a profit. The TFC seasons being sold at face instead of actual value is indeed taking a profit though.

bones
10-25-2012, 12:19 PM
Face value is commonly accepted as ticket cost + fees for that ticket, seeing the idea is to recoup what you paid, not to make a profit. The TFC seasons being sold at face instead of actual value is indeed taking a profit though.

When you buy a season there are no fees so if you are selling a ticket out of your season to ask for face value is criminal in my opinion but again, I know, people here say that's ok.

Oldtimer
10-25-2012, 12:31 PM
When you buy a season there are no fees so if you are selling a ticket out of your season to ask for face value is criminal in my opinion but again, I know, people here say that's ok.

We discussed it extensively before we ever set things up and it was a compromise position between those who said all sales at cost and those who wanted an unrestricted free market.

This discussion is off-topic to whether people are renewing, and is a group policy issue. Please take it to the member's section if you wish to further discuss this topic.

:topic:

Oldtimer
10-25-2012, 12:39 PM
One thing that has changed greatly for renewals is two things:

(1) Ability to get cheap tickets on Groupon, etc.

(2) The inability to sell tickets for anything close to what you paid for them, if at all.

If you are only attending 5-10 games a year, and can't sell the rest of your package, those Groupon sales, even if a few dollars more look like a better deal than Season Tickets.
If you attend close to 100% of the games, season tickets remain your best deal.

nonc
10-26-2012, 05:37 PM
The majority voting 'yes' regardless of changes have nothing to complain about during 2013.

Wull
10-26-2012, 06:53 PM
The majority voting 'yes' regardless of changes have nothing to complain about during 2013.

not true, I plan on using my voice from the stand from day one next year if the current brain trust are still in charge come March. What does an empty seat or one that someone else has filled do to send them a message?

Belfast_Boy
10-26-2012, 08:38 PM
not true, I plan on using my voice from the stand from day one next year if the current brain trust are still in charge come March. What does an empty seat or one that someone else has filled do to send them a message?

agreed mon ami!

as a seasons seat holder I think we have a greater voice.

v00d00daddy
10-26-2012, 08:53 PM
not true, I plan on using my voice from the stand from day one next year if the current brain trust are still in charge come March. What does an empty seat or one that someone else has filled do to send them a message?


agreed mon ami!

as a seasons seat holder I think we have a greater voice.

This is all based on the premise that somebody will be filling any seat left vacant by non renewals.

That just isn't going to happen. At best you'll see current SSH move from expensive seats to cheaper seats. There is no waiting list. There will not be new SSH.

As a season seat holder they don't care about our voices. If they did things would have changed already. The only thing that provokes change from our FO is making them feel it in the pocket book. They don't give a shit what you say before, during or after the game....as long as you paid to get into the game. They only start to worry when it's time to convince people to come back. (Hence the price drop this year).

Literally the worst thing that could happen to TFC would be a very strong SSH renewal rate. If that happens, they'll know that no matter how bad or dysfunctional the team and FO are....with the proper marketing and ass kissing they can win us back enough for them to turn a profit.

Personally I don't think there is a unified enough voice from any of the supporters to force any change. What's worse is that there never will be. TFC supporters are too different in terms of the way they approach the game.

If this team doesn't create a winning product, the product will not last. I don't know how many more horrible seasons they can withstand.

To bastardize a Tragically Hip lyric:

Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

Wull
10-26-2012, 09:49 PM
This is all based on the premise that somebody will be filling any seat left vacant by non renewals.

That just isn't going to happen. At best you'll see current SSH move from expensive seats to cheaper seats. There is no waiting list. There will not be new SSH.

As a season seat holder they don't care about our voices. If they did things would have changed already. The only thing that provokes change from our FO is making them feel it in the pocket book. They don't give a shit what you say before, during or after the game....as long as you paid to get into the game. They only start to worry when it's time to convince people to come back. (Hence the price drop this year).

Literally the worst thing that could happen to TFC would be a very strong SSH renewal rate. If that happens, they'll know that no matter how bad or dysfunctional the team and FO are....with the proper marketing and ass kissing they can win us back enough for them to turn a profit.

Personally I don't think there is a unified enough voice from any of the supporters to force any change. What's worse is that there never will be. TFC supporters are too different in terms of the way they approach the game.

If this team doesn't create a winning product, the product will not last. I don't know how many more horrible seasons they can withstand.

To bastardize a Tragically Hip lyric:

Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

they don't like seeing the protests inside and outside the stadium, I know that for a fact. If that happens again at the start of next season, they'll have to try something else to make it stop

ag futbol
10-26-2012, 09:57 PM
I don’t want to be too cynical but I’m worried about the experience people who have renewed will have next year.

MLSE can talk about the SSH price being the “floor” all they want, but with scalpers and ticket resellers online I expect things to be pretty fluid. If it gets as ugly as we all anticipate, seasons will start looking expensive again.

Everyone has their reasons… but if the resale value gets out of whack again next year along with a bad product, they really will have screwed this team up beyond our wildest imagination. Against out best instincts, we better start praying to god that Paul Mariner does something useful next year, because he might be the last shot this club has at keeping people’s attention before they are relegated to a Marlies level of importance in the Toronto sports scene.

Wull
10-27-2012, 10:08 AM
This is all based on the premise that somebody will be filling any seat left vacant by non renewals.

That just isn't going to happen. At best you'll see current SSH move from expensive seats to cheaper seats. There is no waiting list. There will not be new SSH.

As a season seat holder they don't care about our voices. If they did things would have changed already. The only thing that provokes change from our FO is making them feel it in the pocket book. They don't give a shit what you say before, during or after the game....as long as you paid to get into the game. They only start to worry when it's time to convince people to come back. (Hence the price drop this year).

Literally the worst thing that could happen to TFC would be a very strong SSH renewal rate. If that happens, they'll know that no matter how bad or dysfunctional the team and FO are....with the proper marketing and ass kissing they can win us back enough for them to turn a profit.

Personally I don't think there is a unified enough voice from any of the supporters to force any change. What's worse is that there never will be. TFC supporters are too different in terms of the way they approach the game.

If this team doesn't create a winning product, the product will not last. I don't know how many more horrible seasons they can withstand.

To bastardize a Tragically Hip lyric:

Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.

narduch
10-27-2012, 10:18 AM
Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

Nice one! Was actually listening to Day For Night yesterday.

jloome
10-27-2012, 10:51 AM
see my edit above...its a mute point though

Three smacks with the spelling ruler (they used to do that, you know) for spelling "moot" as "mute."

jloome
10-27-2012, 10:55 AM
Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.

My understanding is that your understanding is incorrect. I base mine on talking to cops. They just don't consider it a high priority to chase.

v00d00daddy
10-27-2012, 02:58 PM
Nice one! Was actually listening to Day For Night yesterday.

Great album.

I've come to think that the line "thugs in perpetuity" fits the TFC FO so well when it comes to their treatment of the fans. Lol

ensco
10-27-2012, 03:53 PM
Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.

If you are not renewing, but want to go to some games in 2013, you are rooting for the renewal rate to be high. It means more tickets in the secondary market.

Auzzy
10-28-2012, 12:57 AM
Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.

Is that info from someone within TFC? Thanks!

ensco
10-28-2012, 09:57 AM
MLSE doing more and more of this. Raptors groupon deals are underway.

http://www.groupon.com/deals/gl-toronto-raptors-toronto?c=button&utm_content=all-deals_greater-toronto-area&s=body&utm_source=newsletter&pt=&utm_medium=email&date=20121028&division=greater-toronto-area&utm_campaign=gl-toronto-raptors-toronto&p=1&sid=11280432&user=0e57b1f8e7246ed088c501f61a1077fe4a28c39c57b14 5504d22456e24387fac

TorontoPat
10-28-2012, 04:01 PM
Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.
So I guess the supporters on this site are out of sinc with the rest of the SSH's So far 57% are renewing something is not adding up.

Fort York Redcoat
10-29-2012, 08:52 AM
Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.


Is that info from someone within TFC? Thanks!


So I guess the supporters on this site are out of sinc with the rest of the SSH's So far 57% are renewing something is not adding up.

Love to hear where these numbers are coming from before guessing anything.

I'd understand faster renewals from people that aren't talking about it as much. The talk comes from people waiting to renew if at all.

Canary10
10-29-2012, 09:23 AM
So I guess the supporters on this site are out of sinc with the rest of the SSH's So far 57% are renewing something is not adding up.

The last game of the season I spoke to maybe a half dozen people in my section (121). Not a single one planned to renew, and didn't care about the price drop. They wanted to see some tangible hope in the off season that there was any kind of future for the team. I bet the supporters seats have done extremely well - at $190, why not renew? But I think they will have trouble in other sections.

narduch
10-29-2012, 09:28 AM
The price drop only buys the club 1 more season to try to fix this mess.

I know its still early, but I've yet to see anything that shows that this front office is serious about changing for the better. Its all just more of the same.

Yohan
10-29-2012, 09:42 AM
The price drop only buys the club 1 more season to try to fix this mess.

I know its still early, but I've yet to see anything that shows that this front office is serious about changing for the better. Its all just more of the same.
you won't see any major moves at least until playoffs are over and Re-entry draft in early Dec.

narduch
10-29-2012, 09:45 AM
you won't see any major moves at least until playoffs are over and Re-entry draft in early Dec.

I wasn't expecting any anyways.

I do think we are getting an assitant coach (ie. someone like Heath).

And I fully expect us to release all the players Mariner doesn't rate.

After that who knows.

TOBOR !
10-29-2012, 10:01 AM
Now that the seasonhas ended, each day that goes by that I don't learn that Mariner (at least) and Cochrane have been releived of duties, is another reason to chuckle to myself about the prospects for next year.

If Mariner survives to have any type of input into TFC for 2013, I suggest changing the club motto to 'How Low Can We Go ?'.

Hashtag that shit : #HLCWG

Oldtimer
10-31-2012, 02:30 PM
Renewals are not going well....

email from TFC:


Treat! We've just added an additional Early Renewal prize for Season Seat Holders!

Any account who has renewed their 2013 Toronto FC season seats by the Friday, November 9th early renewal deadline will receive a pair of complimentary lower bowl Toronto Raptors tickets to a game in November.
If you've already renewed your seats for 2013, then you're all set! Look for a follow-up email during the week of November 12th with further details on how to claim your tickets. Tickets will be randomly assigned to accounts, with no exchanges.

narduch
10-31-2012, 02:36 PM
Renewals are not going well....

email from TFC:

[/FONT]

I thought the same thing.

Pretty sad indictment of the situation of both TFC and the Raptors.

I'm betting the tickets are to an unfavourable match up.

Nuvinho
10-31-2012, 02:37 PM
Lower bowl raptors seats aren't hard to come by for free. Just last week at the Raptors party, they were giving away so many lower bowl seats to the November 4th game.

ryan
10-31-2012, 02:41 PM
hey belfast boy, willing to concede any that Mr Anselmi is a master of bullshit yet? :)

Fort York Redcoat
10-31-2012, 02:58 PM
Renewals are not going well....

email from TFC:


Treat! We've just added an additional Early Renewal prize for Season Seat Holders!

Any account who has renewed their 2013 Toronto FC season seats by the Friday, November 9th early renewal deadline will receive a pair of complimentary lower bowl Toronto Raptors tickets to a game in November.
If you've already renewed your seats for 2013, then you're all set! Look for a follow-up email during the week of November 12th with further details on how to claim your tickets. Tickets will be randomly assigned to accounts, with no exchanges.

Excuse me but WTF? As early as the last week there were those saying renewals were strong and we were all boohooing how Mariner was defo gonna be in next year etc because of it.

Now it looks to be the opposite. Surprise, surprise. I asked more than once about sources for those "good renewal rates" and got bupkiss.

narduch
10-31-2012, 03:10 PM
The funny thing is that its not even a prize. EVERYBODY that renews by the 9th gets a pair of tickets.

Oldtimer
10-31-2012, 03:12 PM
Note they didn't give free Marlies tickets... raises too many unpleasant memories for a lot of us.

Personally, I'll wait until they give me a free Kia for renewing. ;)

narduch
10-31-2012, 03:14 PM
I guess that new dynamic pricing the Raptors are using isn't working too well.

So if I get my new free jersey and take up this offer too. Doesn't that make my pair of south end ticket almost free? LOL.

ryan
10-31-2012, 03:20 PM
I guess that new dynamic pricing the Raptors are using isn't working too well.

So if I get my new free jersey and take up this offer too. Doesn't that make my pair of south end ticket almost free? LOL.

In order for your jersey and raps ticket to have value, it needs to...have value. If you're getting them for free, how much value do those actually have?

narduch
10-31-2012, 03:22 PM
In order for your jersey and raps ticket to have value, it needs to...have value. If you're getting them for free, how much value do those actually have?

I agree with you.

In past seasons this would have been cool for me. I use to attend a couple of Raptor games a year.

But this new 'prize' for TFC SSH is fairly empty. MLSE is giving us something that wasn't going to be used anyways. This costs them nothing.

ryan
10-31-2012, 03:30 PM
Exactly, owning a sports team is close to being the Federal Reserve in the US.

Print a rectangular peice of paper, put a value on it. Profit.


They are trying to print money, how about you earn money you fucks.

narduch
10-31-2012, 03:37 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if this isn't even the last sweetener to try to get people to renew.

I can't see too many fence sitters changing their mind over this.

jloome
10-31-2012, 04:37 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if this isn't even the last sweetener to try to get people to renew.

I can't see too many fence sitters changing their mind over this.

Quite the opposite. We're at the point where this sort of penny ante bullshit is going to offend more than it will help.

Belfast_Boy
10-31-2012, 04:46 PM
How about Tickets to the Marlies! At least they win games!!!!!

Joe Kool
10-31-2012, 10:31 PM
I know a lot of the stuff in here is negative about the promotion for the Raps tickets but I don't mind since I like going to Raps games. I tend to get lucky and they win when I go and lots of times I come away with free pizza the next day. Anyhow, I don't mind the promotion because I was going to renew my south end seats for one more year. If anyone can't use their free pair they get please let me know because I would love to bring my kids to a game in the lower bowl and usually way out of my price range. Thanks.

ryan
11-01-2012, 06:49 AM
How about Tickets to the Marlies! At least they win games!!!!!

If there's a town hall, this needs to be asked. :D

nonc
11-01-2012, 08:20 AM
This is great guys, keep up the non-renewals or at least wait as long as possible if you're going to. This is our disapproval.

And let's not lump the Raptors with TFC for their sake, TFC is an unmatched level of futility and incompetence.

narduch
11-01-2012, 08:22 AM
And let's not lump the Raptors with TFC for their sake, TFC is an unmatched level of futility and incompetence.

I think they do need to be lumped together. This promotion is only happening because both teams are facing attendance problems.

nonc
11-01-2012, 08:25 AM
I think they do need to be lumped together. This promotion is only happening because both teams are facing attendance problems.

fair play. but i still stand by my un-related point, as it were.

Oldtimer
11-01-2012, 08:45 AM
How about Tickets to the Marlies! At least they win games!!!!!


If there's a town hall, this needs to be asked. :D

Nooo.... they'll bring back the ransom packs then, and you two will be responsible!!!! :D

Belfast_Boy
11-01-2012, 10:15 AM
Nooo.... they'll bring back the ransom packs then, and you two will be responsible!!!! :D

OHHHHHH to have that much influence!

we should co-ordinate guerilla banner infliltration to the ACC. or do the bags with TFC gear on.

ryan
11-01-2012, 10:22 AM
OHHHHHH to have that much influence!

we should co-ordinate guerilla banner infliltration to the ACC. or do the bags with TFC gear on.

A banner that says something to undermine folks who paid for the seats? That would royally piss off MLSE.

"MLSE GAVE THESE SEATS AWAY FREE" or something to that effect.

cmonyoureds
11-01-2012, 10:28 AM
A banner that says something to undermine folks who paid for the seats? That would royally piss off MLSE.

"MLSE GAVE THESE SEATS AWAY FREE" or something to that effect.

Now THAT would be golden!!!! Please, please, please someone do this!

DangerRed
11-01-2012, 10:29 AM
I'm not sure he is downplaying it. Single game buyers already know that they are paying more (or should be) paying more than season ticket holders.

I'll only be buying the odd single-game ticket next year. I'll be sure to let you know if I pay more than a season seat holder. I'm betting I won't.

cmonyoureds
11-01-2012, 10:30 AM
Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.

"All calls recorded for quality assurance purposes".

Translation "you just told that guy sales weren't going well, that's not the company line, here's your final T4 and record of employment."

trane
11-01-2012, 10:43 AM
There's a bad tv commercial on right now that sums up this dilemma for people: when someone offers to sell you a $10 banana for $5, it's still a $5 banana.


That is why I will not be back untill I see real change. For me it is realy not about price but about product, and not a winning product, but a product that I can believe in and hope for something better. I have not had that since the end of 2010, when I realized that this club was build of a fuondation of shit.

Canary_canuck
11-01-2012, 10:52 AM
That is the same time my son and I bailed,Trane ,and I see nothing to bring us back. I am still emotionally attached to whoever is on the field on a given day ( TFC would make a fortune selling programmes every game so fans can see who is playing and coaching ) but really resent the blowing of a wonderful opportunity to bring half decent soccer to Toronto by MLSE.
The price ( way too high for the fans ) of FO arrogance.

Fort York Redcoat
11-01-2012, 10:53 AM
"All calls recorded for quality assurance purposes".

Translation "you just told that guy sales weren't going well, that's not the company line, here's your final T4 and record of employment."

Are we saying that it's the ticket reps themselves telling us that renewal rates are going well? That's our source? Yikes. I'd like to know what "on pace for a record" would mean in real world numbers.

trane
11-01-2012, 11:01 AM
That is the same time my son and I bailed,Trane ,and I see nothing to bring us back. I am still emotionally attached to whoever is on the field on a given day ( TFC would make a fortune selling programmes every game so fans can see who is playing and coaching ) but really resent the blowing of a wonderful opportunity to bring half decent soccer to Toronto by MLSE.
The price ( way too high for the fans ) of FO arrogance.

I am still attached despite my better judgment, but I deeply resnet MLSE. I hate them like I have never hated an ownership gourp, and my first love is owned by fucking Berlusconi, so it tells you how much I hate them.

trane
11-01-2012, 11:02 AM
Are we saying that it's the ticket reps themselves telling us that renewal rates are going well? That's our source? Yikes. I'd like to know what "on pace for a record" would mean in real world numbers.

The explenation is simple there is a word missing, LOW, it should read "on pace for a record LOW".

ag futbol
11-01-2012, 11:04 AM
I'll only be buying the odd single-game ticket next year. I'll be sure to let you know if I pay more than a season seat holder. I'm betting I won't.
Agreed.

There are too many ways to buy/sell tickets these days. They can't stonewall on prices the way they might have 10 years ago.

Think that's the other half of the reason for "dynamic pricing", because if they are inflexible others will basically eat their lunch. Sure it looks like they benefit on the way up, but on the way down they are just trying to save their bacon while everyone tries to undercut each other

Wull
11-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Are we saying that it's the ticket reps themselves telling us that renewal rates are going well? That's our source? Yikes. I'd like to know what "on pace for a record" would mean in real world numbers.

They're not my source, Mark is my source

Fort York Redcoat
11-01-2012, 12:00 PM
^That's cool I just wanted something before it's passed as gospel. Rumours fly twice as fast in shit times.

brad
11-01-2012, 12:03 PM
I highly doubt that if renewals are going poorly that they would tell us. When have they ever been transparent about ticket demand?

Mark in Ottawa
11-01-2012, 12:29 PM
Note they didn't give free Marlies tickets... raises too many unpleasant memories for a lot of us.

Ouch!! That sure does bring back the bad memories of the "Ransom Pack" days.

What a long way they fell ... I got one of my tickets last season with Air Miles.

TOBOR !
11-01-2012, 12:58 PM
I'd like to see RPB at Raptor games with big ass signs calling for Mariner's and Cochrane's dismissal.

gomesv
11-01-2012, 02:00 PM
It has to be coming from reps,.....the guy I spoke to used those exact same words when I challenged him on sales, he stated that they were on record pace for sales, and its possible they were in the $200.00 range, but my guess is they have hit a brick wall with all other sections

T-boy
11-01-2012, 02:06 PM
^^^

Agreed, the yellow section is going to sell fast at that price, no doubt. Going from over $300 to $190 is a great saving in the yellows. But the other sections are still going to be a harder sell. Even at bottom of the table TFC are still a $190 product. But in other sections, you need a better product and a winning team to be paying over $1000 for a pair of tickets.

cmonyoureds
11-01-2012, 02:08 PM
They're not my source, Mark is my source

Honest question - who's Mark? And any chance he would have any input into what the company line would be to inquiries? Or would he have a vested interest in presenting a positive spin?

Belfast_Boy
11-01-2012, 02:37 PM
Honest question - who's Mark? And any chance he would have any input into what the company line would be to inquiries? Or would he have a vested interest in presenting a positive spin?

that's me.

it came from Anselmi himself. I don't think he was bullshitting. there would be no reason for it, he knows that I don't give a shit about money, tickets, suppporter sections or the price of beer. I'm only concerned with football.
lol, no vested interest here my friend. only a selfish need to improve football.

trane
11-01-2012, 05:03 PM
that's me.

it came from Anselmi himself. I don't think he was bullshitting. there would be no reason for it, he knows that I don't give a shit about money, tickets, suppporter sections or the price of beer. I'm only concerned with football.
lol, no vested interest here my friend. only a selfish need to improve football.

AMEN that is the fucking bottom fucking line. I do not care about shit all else.

jazzy
11-01-2012, 08:31 PM
I know a lot of the stuff in here is negative about the promotion for the Raps tickets but I don't mind since I like going to Raps games. I tend to get lucky and they win when I go and lots of times I come away with free pizza the next day. Anyhow, I don't mind the promotion because I was going to renew my south end seats for one more year. If anyone can't use their free pair they get please let me know because I would love to bring my kids to a game in the lower bowl and usually way out of my price range. Thanks.

^this ..they're great and with THE up and coming coach........they're giving us something for god's sake thats all.....if mariner stays next years done sooo....enjoy the young raps everyone

Red CB Toronto
11-01-2012, 11:08 PM
So who will be not using their free Raptors tickets? We should have a thread for those who are not planning/can't use their free tickets, so they can be passed onto those who can, no point in the, going to waste.

Alonso
11-02-2012, 12:03 AM
"All calls recorded for quality assurance purposes".

Translation "you just told that guy sales weren't going well, that's not the company line, here's your final T4 and record of employment."


Yeah that's bogus IMO.

Sales can't be going well.

They just threw in Raptors tickets for early renewals... they wouldn't be sweetening the pot if renewals were at record pace.

TFC07
11-02-2012, 12:13 AM
This is good news because it's forces MLSE to get their shit together. First step of doing that is to get rid of Mariner and Cochrane then hire a president from a successful background to run TFC.

Fort York Redcoat
11-02-2012, 07:17 AM
It has to be coming from reps,.....the guy I spoke to used those exact same words when I challenged him on sales, he stated that they were on record pace for sales, and its possible they were in the $200.00 range, but my guess is they have hit a brick wall with all other sections


that's me.

it came from Anselmi himself. I don't think he was bullshitting. there would be no reason for it, he knows that I don't give a shit about money, tickets, suppporter sections or the price of beer. I'm only concerned with football.
lol, no vested interest here my friend. only a selfish need to improve football.

Thanks guys.

Anselmi and at least one ticket rep is saying sales are on pace for record sales or doing well. Let's remember this as the freebies of jerseys and other MLSE tickets are thrown at us.

Pookie
11-02-2012, 07:42 AM
Thanks guys.

Anselmi and at least one ticket rep is saying sales are on pace for record sales or doing well. Let's remember this as the freebies of jerseys and other MLSE tickets are thrown at us.

Another way of saying it "Hurry, while quantities last"

I'm skeptical as "record sales" seems to be an intriguing way of describing renewals. They aren't selling new season tickets, they are simply collecting renewals. So the measure would be renewals to this point this year vs renewals to this point in previous years.

Considering in the early seasons we reached the ceiling on tickets (supposedly), how exactly can you be on pace to break renewal records? If everyone renews, as they supposedly did or were close to in previous years, the record is 100%.

Belfast_Boy
11-02-2012, 08:48 AM
Thanks guys.

Anselmi and at least one ticket rep is saying sales are on pace for record sales or doing well. Let's remember this as the freebies of jerseys and other MLSE tickets are thrown at us.


price reduction + free shit = good renewals. makes sense no?
factoring in the free stuff i'm probably paying between $100 - $150 for my seat. who wouldn't renew?
I know a lot of guys that were very serious about not renewing. the price drop happened and they are now back in.

TBH I don't really give a shit about the business side of TFC. I just want football fixed.

Fort York Redcoat
11-02-2012, 09:02 AM
price reduction + free shit = good renewals. makes sense no?
factoring in the free stuff i'm probably paying between $100 - $150 for my seat. who wouldn't renew?
I know a lot of guys that were very serious about not renewing. the price drop happened and they are now back in.

TBH I don't really give a shit about the business side of TFC. I just want football fixed.

Yeah I agree about the business side of things I just wanted this fact nailed down for future debate on how the masses are responding to renewing. I know how we're responding. Thanks again for the info.

TOBOR !
11-02-2012, 01:34 PM
So who will be not using their free Raptors tickets? We should have a thread for those who are not planning/can't use their free tickets, so they can be passed onto those who can, no point in the, going to waste.

I'm gonna go and support the 5 guys on the floor.

NewCity
11-02-2012, 01:47 PM
Just renewed my 4 seats in supporters section. Stay strong boys, this shit storm will weather out. (crossing fingers)

...P.S.....FIRE MARINER AND COCHRANE ALREADY! Anselmi DO IT! DROP THE HAMMER!

TorCanSoc
11-02-2012, 01:55 PM
I feel dirty. I've been ranting about "Never again" and "I'm gone this year" and "No phkn way, I'm done"
.
.
... stupid Year One pricing marketing promotion/manipulation got me. I renewed today.

BUT PHKNELL, NEXT YEAR WE DON'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS AND I'M OUT FOR SURE !!!!!
.
.
.maybe. :)

Chevy
11-02-2012, 01:59 PM
^^ I think next year the slogan will be;

"TFC: Where EVERY Year is Year One!"

NewCity
11-02-2012, 02:32 PM
I have to admit though....this time when I re-newed...that good 'ol feeling of, "My Life is now Complete!" that I had back during Year 1 and 2 after I purchased my season seats...are no longer. I felt like it was donation....but just not for a cause that I believe in.

kodiakTFC
11-02-2012, 03:41 PM
Renewing tonight, was just waiting on that MasterCard to come. $190 for a full season, +mtl game, +raptors game and the free Jersey/sweet mastercard? That is a deal.

Belfast_Boy
11-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Renewing tonight, was just waiting on that MasterCard to come. $190 for a full season, +mtl game, +raptors game and the free Jersey/sweet mastercard? That is a deal.

just pay off that MC. interest is ridiculous.

gomesv
11-02-2012, 06:30 PM
Received a call today from my rep, reminding me of early renewal option and wondering if I was aware that the invoice was posted to my account........told him I'll renew the minute I hear of TFC hiring a proper leader and firing the clowns they have running the show............. And now for the scary part......"Paul Mariner is the head of this team, all decisions go through him and we've been told that's not changing"............he said it with so much conviction that I firmly believe that if renewals go well, they are going to fuck us by doing nothing to change things.....so for those on the fence.......hang on and don't give in until they give us the change we want.

ElvistheEvilScotsman
11-02-2012, 09:38 PM
Received a call today from my rep, reminding me of early renewal option and wondering if I was aware that the invoice was posted to my account........told him I'll renew the minute I hear of TFC hiring a proper leader and firing the clowns they have running the show............. And now for the scary part......"Paul Mariner is the head of this team, all decisions go through him and we've been told that's not changing"............he said it with so much conviction that I firmly believe that if renewals go well, they are going to fuck us by doing nothing to change things.....so for those on the fence.......hang on and don't give in until they give us the change we want.


Must be nice to know who your rep is. No one has reached out to me in the last three years. I got my renewal letter today in the mail. I'm tired of the same old excuses. We're committed to winning blah blah blah. Show me you actually want to turn this ship around by firing shortbread and cockring.

KGH
11-02-2012, 10:48 PM
I got a renewal letter in the mail today. Can't believe they've even managed to screw this up.

heres what it says at the bottom:

Total charges: $456 (2 seats in 127)
Payments/credits: $114 (25% as per the deposit when I did it online)
Total Season renewal: $342
25% non-refundable deposit:$85.50 (ummmm. Didn't I already pay my 25%???)

and then it goes on to say my 85.50 is due no later than nov 23 or no tickets.

How did they screw this up???? Better question is why am I'm surprised

james
11-03-2012, 12:07 PM
Many grounds in England for example tickets are often close in price all across the stadium. An example West Ham vs Stoke City November 19th for single tickets. These are the prices: Adults 25pounds to sit along side field on either stand or 20pounds to sit behind either net (price does not matter if you are 1st row or last row, tickets are priced by what stand you are in). If your under 16 or over 65 ticekts are 20pounds along side field or 15pounds behind either net.

Another example a premium game vs Chelsea tickets at West Ham look like this. 67 pounds or 61 pounds to sit along side field stand. 55 pounds or 49 pounds to sit at either end of the field. Under 16's or over 65 tickets are 35pounds or 32 pounds to sit along side field or 29pounds and 26 pounds to sit behind either end of the field.

20 pounds is about $30 canadian...so cheapest tickets at West Ham for a non premium game are still more then TFC's new south end ticket prices. However prices at stadiums in North America seem to change drastically from one section to the next. Many sections at BMO field cost more then West Ham's Upton Park. Sometimes a single aisle difference can mean $50 difference in price. Selling ticekts at $190 a season or about what $12 a game or something? thats a good price. However selling some other season ticekt sections at $600-$800-+$1,000 might still be a very hard sell, even with discounts some sections have always been way over priced.

Also we should not have premium game prices at BMO. I know they have them in England but there is no giant teams that continue to be a top club year after year. We have had teams like New York Red Bulls priced as premium games while they were actually in last place in the league. This league teams change every year premiums in this league don't exsist.

tfcfans
11-03-2012, 02:52 PM
^^KGH

They did the same calculation on mine as well.......I will ignore it and go with what it says on my account manager which is $114 for the January, February and March payment dates.

nascarguy
11-03-2012, 03:50 PM
his was on the TFC site

UPDATE: early renewal now includes lower bowl Raptors tickets

lol renewal must be going bad

KGH
11-04-2012, 01:21 PM
^^KGH

They did the same calculation on mine as well.......I will ignore it and go with what it says on my account manager which is $114 for the January, February and March payment dates.

This just highlights the incompetence that runs through the entire organization. If they can't even get a simple invoice right I can only imagine how everything else is run.

ryan
11-05-2012, 09:31 AM
Curious thought I'm wondering what other people think about.

Does anyone think TFC tickets will ever be hard to come by again? Think about it.


SSH are there to give you a) guaranteed seats, b) cheaper rate than everyone else, c) some side perks to sweeten the deal

For the last couple seasons, it's been proven you can acquire tickets through 2nd hand, scalpers or travelzoo for nearly...sometimes lower, than SSH prices.
TFC hasn't sold out much of anything of late and even when there's going to be one, getting tickets still really isn't all that difficult.
Starting last year, maybe even the year before, people not on the wait list were called for SSH opportunities.


Is anyone actually afraid you "might not get back in" if you decide to flip these cunts the bird this year? Or for any point in the future?

I think this club would need to do more than just win a championship to make it harder, or costly, to attend a TFC match.

narduch
11-05-2012, 09:35 AM
TFC didn't have a single sell out this season.

In terms of demand, I actually think its going to get worse before it gets better, at least until the current management is changed.

I'm not even sure anymore if years of sustained success will help bring things back to 2007 levels.

Fort York Redcoat
11-05-2012, 09:41 AM
Curious thought I'm wondering what other people think about.

Does anyone think TFC tickets will ever be hard to come by again? Think about it.


SSH are there to give you a) guaranteed seats, b) cheaper rate than everyone else, c) some side perks to sweeten the deal

For the last couple seasons, it's been proven you can acquire tickets through 2nd hand, scalpers or travelzoo for nearly...sometimes lower, than SSH prices.
TFC hasn't sold out much of anything of late and even when there's going to be one, getting tickets still really isn't all that difficult.
Starting last year, maybe even the year before, people not on the wait list were called for SSH opportunities.


Is anyone actually afraid you "might not get back in" if you decide to flip these cunts the bird this year? Or for any point in the future?

I think this club would need to do more than just win a championship to make it harder, or costly, to attend a TFC match.

I don't think that is a concern for almost anyone here.

Most here have made their decision on things other than the fright of losing their spot in line to get tickets. By the same token, to a seasons ticket holder that feels he still wants his spot, no cheap, secondary buyer/scummy scalper single ticket is good enough.

I agree that this club has a lot to do to win back that "ticket in demand" status. A championship of some kind would be the first and best step.

ryan
11-05-2012, 11:02 AM
just got to have my fun chat with my ticket rep to break the news I was out. then he wanted to know what I'd do if I was in charge and 20 minutes later that was that lol.

narduch
11-05-2012, 11:04 AM
then he wanted to know what I'd do if I was in charge and 20 minutes later that was that lol.

LOL. Did he seriously ask this?

This organization is truly fucked.

ryan
11-05-2012, 01:27 PM
LOL. Did he seriously ask this?

This organization is truly fucked.

Yep. Wanted to know why I think they weren't going to do well. What I would have done differently. What formation they should be playing.


I'm pretty sure it was a job interview....lol

narduch
11-05-2012, 01:35 PM
Yep. Wanted to know why I think they weren't going to do well. What I would have done differently. What formation they should be playing.


I'm pretty sure it was a job interview....lol

LOL.

Its no wonder this team is a mess, and will continue to be one.

glaze
11-06-2012, 05:20 PM
I am satisfied with the perks, but it does all depend on your seat situation. We can all agree that the premium seats are still overpriced and premium game pricing is a bit ridiculous. While I think I am paying fair value for my light grey single with the jersey and b ball tix my single is 228, for someone paying a grand it's not as much of an impact.
I think they'll have a hard time with premium renewals and the corporate boxes, for those in 110 111 112 113 if you don't renew you may have a hard time getting back in. That said I've watched every game for 2 seasons in those sections despite my seat elsewhere so that too is not much of an incentive.

Stress
11-07-2012, 10:31 AM
I just renewed my sect. 219 light greys. Would've been a tougher decision if they didn't offer the price break. I'll be making a better effort to smuggle in my booze and food this year though. The extra $20-$30 a game on concessions is the real killer.

asterix606
11-07-2012, 12:17 PM
My friend and I have decided to give TFC one last chance. But only if we can relocate to L Grey.

We had for a few years, D Grey, at 995$ per seat. Even with the drop in this section to 760$, its way too much for the crap on and off the field.

Questions:

1. The sales rep told my friend that they need 25% down payment. What if we do not get the seats that we financially wish for during relocation. Will we get our money back?

2. What are our odds of getting a pair of L Grey?

Thanks,

Fort York Redcoat
11-07-2012, 12:31 PM
My friend and I have decided to give TFC one last chance. But only if we can relocate to L Grey.

We had for a few years, D Grey, at 995$ per seat. Even with the drop in this section to 760$, its way too much for the crap on and off the field.

Questions:

1. The sales rep told my friend that they need 25% down payment. What if we do not get the seats that we financially wish for during relocation. Will we get our money back?

2. What are our odds of getting a pair of L Grey?

Thanks,

Once you say you're renewing and put the deposit down its done. Non-refundable.

asterix606
11-07-2012, 12:40 PM
Once you say you're renewing and put the deposit down its done. Non-refundable.


Do you think that my chances of getting L Grey are high? If not, we will drop our D Grey and not buy season tickets.

Is it even legal to take a 25% down and not reimburse if you did not get to buy the product that you wished for?

narduch
11-07-2012, 12:41 PM
It has always been renew your current seats first, and than show up on relocation day and hope you can get different seats.

Considering the price drop, my guess is yellows and light greys will be hard to come by.

Its a big risk to take.

Besides, considering how sneaky and dishonest an organization this is, who knows if they hold back cheap seats at relocation events, making it harder to move from the expensive seats.

narduch
11-07-2012, 12:42 PM
Is it even legal to take a 25% down and not reimburse if you did not get to buy the product that you wished for?

Its legal if you warn people ahead of time, which they did.

The renewal letter in the mail spells it out.

tfcleeds
11-07-2012, 12:57 PM
I think it's appropriate to post this here since it pertains to this issue, but for those who haven't read it yet, great article by Ben Knight on CSN yesterday....http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3906-Dear-Toronto-FC-season-ticket-holders

asterix606
11-07-2012, 12:59 PM
Its legal if you warn people ahead of time, which they did.

The renewal letter in the mail spells it out.


Regardless, it's still a douchebag move, from douchebag MLSE!

I cannot take the risk of being forced to renew my D Grey if nothing is available!

I guess thats it for us then, we will not renew anything and buy single tickets when wished for.

Thanks for the info..

narduch
11-07-2012, 01:02 PM
Regardless, it's still a douchebag move, from douchebag MLSE!

I cannot take the risk of being forced to renew my D Grey if nothing is available!

I guess thats it for us then, we will not renew anything and buy single tickets when wished for.

Thanks for the info..

I agree with you, its still a dick move.

Who knows though, its all speculation. Maybe things are so bad people won't renew the cheap seats no matter what.

You have until Nov. 23 to decide.

DangerRed
11-07-2012, 01:37 PM
I think it's appropriate to post this here since it pertains to this issue, but for those who haven't read it yet, great article by Ben Knight on CSN yesterday....http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3906-Dear-Toronto-FC-season-ticket-holders

This is a GREAT article. Unusual for CSN, which I don't rate very highly (due to Duane Rollins in particular) but Ben Knight nails it here. Hope Wheeler and some others around here read it. Posting for ease of readership:

Dear Toronto FC season ticket holders:

by Ben Knight (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?473-Ben-Knight)

View Profile (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?473-Ben-Knight)
View Forum Posts (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/search.php?do=finduser&userid=473&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1)
Private Message (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=473)
View Articles (http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/list.php?author/473-Ben-Knight)




Published on 11-06-2012 10:25 AM
19 Comments (http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3906-Dear-Toronto-FC-season-ticket-holders#comments) http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/misc/comment.png



I’ve been dreading doing this, but the truth needs saying and no one else is saying it.

It’s time to renew your annual financial commitment to Toronto FC.

Please don’t.

Here’s what you get, if you do:

- Deeply dysfunctional ownership in Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

- A seventh failed season of Tom Anselmi in ultimate charge.

- A loutish, inflammatory manager – Paul Mariner – who is currently the only person outside of MLSE head office who is convinced he is “very good” at what he does.

- A corporate co-pilot – Earl Cochrane – who has already helped seven different TFC coaches not win.

- Yes, you also get a significant drop in the price of your tickets (unless you sit in the north end), but with the other four factors unalterably in place, you are very likely still overpaying.

Here’s what you get if you don’t renew:

- Walk-up tickets to any game you want to see.

- Fewer doomed, useless nights at the park when you don’t want to be there.

The last thing I want to do is encourage thousands of loyal six-season survivors to cut Toronto FC’s most crucial financial lifeline. But the dysfunction at the top is so bad, there seems no other way of getting the point across than to threaten something MLSE understands vastly better than soccer – income.

I understand the comfort and tradition of having a regular seat. I have favourite spots in pretty much every arena I’ve even been in. Financial investment deepens commitment, too. You feel like you actually helped build the team.

That’s great:

- Until the team has one of the all-time worst six-year starts of any professional sports franchise in North American history.

- Until the team leaves the running of year seven to the same baffled, overmatched pilots who pancaked year six.

- Until you start hearing overwhelming evidence of the depth of disrespect most of the rest of MLS has for TFC.

- Until the only optimistic word is a luridly glowing pro-Mariner puff piece in the Toronto Star, written by a reporter I have never knowingly laid eyes on at BMO Field.

If you don’t renew, you can always come back when (if!) things improve.

What’s that? Worried about the lengthy waiting list?

The Toronto FC waiting list is one of this sad situation’s more compelling urban myths. Yes, it once existed, and was thousands strong. But wave a gas spectrometer at it, and here are its component parts:

- Large numbers of existing season ticket holders, looking for additional seats. These are dropping away.

- Ticket resale brokerages, looking for a piece of what once appeared to be The Next Big Thing. These are dying of starvation.

- Thousands of non-ticket holders, desperately wanting in. Most got it when the day-oners started drifting away.

There are really only two possible solutions to the current raw, gaping disaster (other than Mariner actually turning out to be as really good at this job as he says he is):

- Anselmi hires a real soccer man as TFC president, tosses him the keys and the bank-vault combination, and walks the hell away.

- Some soccer-loving Dragon buys MLSE out.

Absent of those, you are being asked to pay up all over again, to watch the same folks who screwed it all up try to unscrew it one more time without making any major changes at the top.

I believe, were they on the outside looking in, as financially savvy a group as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment would not advise you to bankroll those odds.

It’s a very tough decision. I stood at a chilly curbside in a small city outside of Toronto this weekend, with a pair of sad-eyed season ticket holders who have pretty much decided not to renew. That same heartache is being felt in many places, by many dear people, this gray, drab, Great Lakes November day.

Clearly, follow your own hearts, everyone. Make your own deals, and may the soccer gods smile on your good intentions.

The ship is down. There are no lifeboats. Do you really want to buy a ticket for another cruise?

Onward!

Fort York Redcoat
11-07-2012, 01:42 PM
Regardless, it's still a douchebag move, from douchebag MLSE!



It's an opportunity. Not a guarantee. Life is full of them and one is not entitled to them.

See you round. Just not in the stadium.

Auzzy
11-07-2012, 11:03 PM
This is a GREAT article. Unusual for CSN, which I don't rate very highly (due to Duane Rollins in particular) but Ben Knight nails it here. Hope Wheeler and some others around here read it. Posting for ease of readership:

Dear Toronto FC season ticket holders:

<snip>



It's better to link the article at http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3906-Dear-Toronto-FC-season-ticket-holders
and put some quotes here, rather than copying the whole article. Bloggers are also interested in hits.

ryan
11-08-2012, 09:16 AM
Ben Knight works far too hard for Canadian soccer to not get the hits for each read, I agree, just link that stuff.

DangerRed
11-08-2012, 09:55 AM
It's better to link the article at http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3906-Dear-Toronto-FC-season-ticket-holders
and put some quotes here, rather than copying the whole article. Bloggers are also interested in hits.


Ben Knight works far too hard for Canadian soccer to not get the hits for each read, I agree, just link that stuff.

You mean like the link I had at the very top of my post, right? Thanks, forums police!

ryan
11-08-2012, 10:05 AM
You mean like the link I had at the very top of my post, right? Thanks, forums police!

Still against the cause by posting it here, but thanks for making everyone's life one click easier and not helping the guys who fight tooth and nail for soccer in our country.

lol get over yourself.




As for the other topic at hand, I think Light Grey's will not be as hard to come by as people think.

Auzzy
11-08-2012, 11:22 AM
You mean like the link I had at the very top of my post, right? Thanks, forums police!

You're very welcome, any time, no problem! I like to be the language police as well. Look up the meaning of "rather than."


I agree with the other issue raised. I feel there will be some light greys available (hoping of course that TFC doesn't unfairly hold back all the cheap seats from relocation, intending to sell them to new season ticket holders instead). At least there should be medium greys available: those are $475 each instead of $760 for dark greys.

The Professor
11-08-2012, 11:59 AM
Do you really want to buy a ticket for another cruise?

But think of the adventures you'll miss!!

I ought know. I once bought a ticket for a three-hour cruise crewed by Skipper and Gilligan. :D

v00d00daddy
11-08-2012, 02:33 PM
Ben Knight summed up how I feel quite nicely.

I wish there were no renewals. That would make them wake up.

TFC_Allez
11-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Renewed against doctors orders...

JoesphNdo
11-10-2012, 06:42 PM
Forgive me for the slight derail but this seems a good a place as any, as someone who only arrived in Toronto summer of last year I'm looking to get season tickets for the first time this year. Is there any chance that I'll be able to get them in the reasonable priced category or do newcomers get a higher price than renewals and limited to the expensive seats? I really don't think I'd bother if I had to pay near 500 dollars.

brad
11-10-2012, 08:42 PM
Forgive me for the slight derail but this seems a good a place as any, as someone who only arrived in Toronto summer of last year I'm looking to get season tickets for the first time this year. Is there any chance that I'll be able to get them in the reasonable priced category or do newcomers get a higher price than renewals and limited to the expensive seats? I really don't think I'd bother if I had to pay near 500 dollars.

Renwal price is a lot lower than the price for a new ticket holder. Especially since they set the renewal price back to year one this year. This should give you an idea what prices will be for you:

http://www.theaircanadacentre.com/assets/default/TFC2012_SeatingChart.pdf

They might be a bit higher this year though, wouldn't surprise me if they bump them.

Worth noting - at the new STH price, you will probably be able to attend games of the secondary market for less that a season ticket prices.

anto7
11-11-2012, 10:57 AM
So for the 3rd year in a row I sold my 2 tickets in 105 to a willing buyer. The last 2 seasons I went with partial packs in 127 and saved myself a whole bunch of money compared to my seasons. With the year 1 roll back prices it will be interesting what they will charge for the partials this year, assuming they offer them again. I may not get the good deal that I have been getting when compared to the roll back prices.

TorontoPat
11-11-2012, 08:56 PM
Renwal price is a lot lower than the price for a new ticket holder. Especially since they set the renewal price back to year one this year. This should give you an idea what prices will be for you:

http://www.theaircanadacentre.com/assets/default/TFC2012_SeatingChart.pdf

They might be a bit higher this year though, wouldn't surprise me if they bump them.

Worth noting - at the new STH price, you will probably be able to attend games of the secondary market for less that a season ticket prices.
I'll be surprised if they sell seats at a higher price to first time buyers.

Cashcleaner
11-12-2012, 01:50 AM
I renewed. I renewed and promptly sold my season ticket package to Ricky_Portugal here on the boards. I might even be able to snap up another seat for him.

Myself, I'm still gonna come out to the odd game at BMO and will have the Season Opener in Montreal to look forward to. I'm definitely not turning my back on this club.

scooter
11-12-2012, 08:06 AM
i renewed
got a great price because i would have paid more since i would have renewed anyways --- i am not giving up on our team
even got a pair of free raptors tickets
and since i paid for my tickets with my new bmo/tfc mastercard i will get a free shirt next spring
thanks mlse for giving me free stuff

narduch
11-12-2012, 11:20 AM
I'll be surprised if they sell seats at a higher price to first time buyers.

Why would you be surprised? They have always charged new season seat holders more than existing season seat holders.

The real question is what will they charge this season to new season seat holders. As an example, in the south end, surely it has to be closer to the new price of $190 than the old price of $361.

Nuvinho
11-12-2012, 01:29 PM
I am making them wait it out...and I am still going to ask for the free stuff. I got an email Friday and call, after i wrote my account rep why I may not renew my 6 seats.

v00d00daddy
11-12-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm not renewing because I wanna be a part of the group of people that helped to force this clubs hand and finally start making decisions to create a successful team. They're nowhere near that yet and the only thing that will bring change is a continued lack of interest from once diehard supporters.

I will follow this team and hope for their success forever but I will no longer be a part of the Front Office's security blanket.

I keep reading people say that they won't "turn their back on this team".

I see it differently. I think people who renewed because of the price decrease, or free jersey, or raptor tickets or whatever other shiny distraction the FO has offered need to realize that the FO has only given these things as a result of people in 2010, 2011 and now in 2012 NOT RENEWING.

They're the ones we should all be thanking for any change at TFC. Not the Front office. Not the players. Not the coaches. The only thing forcing change is the lack lustre renewal period.

So.....renewing actually helps nothing and while renewers may not be "turning their back on the team", they're certainly working against positive change.

ryan
11-12-2012, 04:37 PM
I'm not renewing because I wanna be a part of the group of people that helped to force this clubs hand and finally start making decisions to create a successful team. They're nowhere near that yet and the only thing that will bring change is a continued lack of interest from once diehard supporters.

I will follow this team and hope for their success forever but I will no longer be a part of the Front Office's security blanket.

I keep reading people say that they won't "turn their back on this team".

I see it differently. I think people who renewed because of the price decrease, or free jersey, or raptor tickets or whatever other shiny distraction the FO has offered need to realize that the FO has only given these things as a result of people in 2010, 2011 and now in 2012 NOT RENEWING.

They're the ones we should all be thanking for any change at TFC. Not the Front office. Not the players. Not the coaches. The only thing forcing change is the lack lustre renewal period.

So.....renewing actually helps nothing and while renewers may not be "turning their back on the team", they're certainly working against positive change.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

bones
11-12-2012, 04:53 PM
I just got my tickets for Game vs Nets Dec 12 section 110M. I wonder if they are going to spread out the "free" tickets over a few games, if everyone renews they'd have. Anyone else get their free Raps tickets yet?

bones
11-12-2012, 04:57 PM
I just realized that the price of the "free" ticket for season seat holders is $90. The free jersey from BMO (if authentic) will have a value in the neighbourhood of $100, so does that make my $190 season ticket free??? HAHAHAHAA just kidding.

Oldtimer
11-12-2012, 05:11 PM
I just realized that the price of the "free" ticket for season seat holders is $90. The free jersey from BMO (if authentic) will have a value in the neighbourhood of $100, so does that make my $190 season ticket free??? HAHAHAHAA just kidding.

Only in ML$E marketing-land are your tickets free. I think we all know that!

T-boy
11-12-2012, 05:16 PM
I just got my tickets for Game vs Nets Dec 12 section 110M. I wonder if they are going to spread out the "free" tickets over a few games, if everyone renews they'd have. Anyone else get their free Raps tickets yet?

Just checked my account and I have a pair of free tickets to the December 19th game - which is when I'm already in the UK for Xmas. Hmmm....I wonder if I can change the tickets to another game?!

sibooo
11-12-2012, 05:35 PM
For those who know, do you get a raps ticket for each of your tfc tix? I have 4 tfc seats, so will I get 4 raps tix or just a pair?

RedsYNWA
11-12-2012, 05:48 PM
I got a pair Vs Detroit on the 19th and now I only own one season seat

leafsman
11-12-2012, 06:07 PM
For those who know, do you get a raps ticket for each of your tfc tix? I have 4 tfc seats, so will I get 4 raps tix or just a pair?
its one pair per account.

Cuppy
11-12-2012, 06:37 PM
Just recvd a pair of tix for Dec 14 against the Mavs.

trane
11-12-2012, 06:38 PM
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.


That is it, I am sorry but as well intentioned as anyone renewing tickets may be, I truly believe they are hurting the team.

The Professor
11-12-2012, 07:33 PM
I've renewed. Got ticket to Raptors/Orlando Dec 21, and expect that to be the chief return on my investment. And I can't stand the NBA.

Apologies in advance if my personal financial decision has damaged the TFC franchise for years to come.

Code Red
11-12-2012, 09:17 PM
That is it, I am sorry but as well intentioned as anyone renewing tickets may be, I truly believe they are hurting the team.

Precisely why I'm holding out. What reason has ML$E given me to renew my season ticket? The fact that they are offering me a "free" ticket to a team they already own and operate? A team from a sport I don't care about whatsoever?

I have not been contacted by my rep but if I was to receive a call or an e-mail my very first question would be "What reason has this organization given me to make me think 2013 will be different from 2012? Name one reason for me".

If I go to a used car dealership and the dealer tells me that the car was involved in an accident at one point but that it has been fixed to perfection, can I trust that this car will run smoothly in the foreseeable future? To me that's what ML$E is trying to sell here. It's damaged goods topped off with an air freshener (Raptors tix, Montreal away game, etc). It's being done for a reason and that reason is to salvage the increasingly irritated fan base. It's a clever attempt but doesn't address the issues plauging this club. Now if Anselmi would introduce a GM/President that is suitable for the role, it would show me that ML$E is trying to get their house in order and I would definitely consider renewing. Until then, I will continue to hold out until the deadline comes and passes. Single tickets are, afterall, a dime a dozen.

Joe Kool
11-13-2012, 12:17 AM
Just checked my account and I have a pair of free tickets to the December 19th game - which is when I'm already in the UK for Xmas. Hmmm....I wonder if I can change the tickets to another game?!

I am sure if you call your rep they can do that kind of thing fairly easily unless they want to be pricks about it. If you can't though and are not going to use them I could use them to bring my kids since I got a pair for the same game if you are willing. I can buy you a few beverages at a future TFC game in exchange. Just throwing it out there.

narduch
11-13-2012, 07:32 AM
Classic MLSE, your free Raptor tickets have to be printed by Friday or else you lose them.

By the way, if anyone doesn't want to use their free tickets, I'd be willing to take them off your hands.:D

trane
11-13-2012, 11:35 AM
I've renewed. Got ticket to Raptors/Orlando Dec 21, and expect that to be the chief return on my investment. And I can't stand the NBA.

Apologies in advance if my personal financial decision has damaged the TFC franchise for years to come.

You not buying or buying tickets does not make a difference, but if supporters as a group do not buy tickets it will be felt. And I do feel that your type of attitude on the issue has enabled the club to get away with murder, and has diminished the positive pressure supporters could put on the club to preform.

trane
11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
Precisely why I'm holding out. What reason has ML$E given me to renew my season ticket? The fact that they are offering me a "free" ticket to a team they already own and operate? A team from a sport I don't care about whatsoever?

I have not been contacted by my rep but if I was to receive a call or an e-mail my very first question would be "What reason has this organization given me to make me think 2013 will be different from 2012? Name one reason for me".

If I go to a used car dealership and the dealer tells me that the car was involved in an accident at one point but that it has been fixed to perfection, can I trust that this car will run smoothly in the foreseeable future? To me that's what ML$E is trying to sell here. It's damaged goods topped off with an air freshener (Raptors tix, Montreal away game, etc). It's being done for a reason and that reason is to salvage the increasingly irritated fan base. It's a clever attempt but doesn't address the issues plauging this club. Now if Anselmi would introduce a GM/President that is suitable for the role, it would show me that ML$E is trying to get their house in order and I would definitely consider renewing. Until then, I will continue to hold out until the deadline comes and passes. Single tickets are, afterall, a dime a dozen.

That is way I see it, and what I am waiting for. I have to say that for a little while I thought they had done something positive with Winter. But clearly that did not last.

Primavera
11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
I am sure if you call your rep they can do that kind of thing fairly easily unless they want to be pricks about it. If you can't though and are not going to use them I could use them to bring my kids since I got a pair for the same game if you are willing. I can buy you a few beverages at a future TFC game in exchange. Just throwing it out there.


Nope. I just got a reply from my ticket rep and he said that they can't change the date because they have no control over the Raptor's ticket inventory.

ryan
11-13-2012, 11:49 AM
Nope. I just got a reply from my ticket rep and he said that they can't change the date because they have no control over the Raptor's ticket inventory.

MLSE has no control over their own tickets. LOL. That's a total crock of shit.

Joe Kool
11-13-2012, 11:49 AM
Nope. I just got a reply from my ticket rep and he said that they can't change the date because they have no control over the Raptor's ticket inventory.

Well that sucks. They have no control over it but they were somehow able to post them in your Account Manager without that control. They were probably told to not get into switching dates for people so it doesn't become a logistical nightmare for them....who knows....could just be taking the prick route too.

T-boy
11-13-2012, 11:49 AM
Nope. I just got a reply from my ticket rep and he said that they can't change the date because they have no control over the Raptor's ticket inventory.

Great incentive by MLSE. Get your TFC tickets early so you can have free tickets to a Raptors game that you can't attend! Woohoo!

They HAVE to realise that a lot of people won't be able to use Raps tickets in December, right? ML$E sure are clever arseholes :mad:

T-boy
11-13-2012, 11:53 AM
Well that sucks. They have no control over it but they were somehow able to post them in your Account Manager without that control. They were probably told to not get into switching dates for people so it doesn't become a logistical nightmare for them....who knows....could just be taking the prick route too.

They are giving away tickets to the December games that aren't popular. They KNOW a lot of people are out of town from the middle of December onwards, or have other commitments (work functions etc). They KNOW that a lot of people aren't going to be able to use their "free" tickets and will let them slide. This isn't incentive to renew - this is complete crap from MLSE.

They KNOW that if they ACTUALLY wanted to give away tickets, they could easily give away "vouchers" that you can redeem for Raptors games when you can attend. Not give away tickets to games that a lot of people aren't going to be able to get to. I'm pissed off now, its official! :o

Joe Kool
11-13-2012, 11:56 AM
Great incentive by MLSE. Get your TFC tickets early so you can have free tickets to a Raptors game that you can't attend! Woohoo!

They HAVE to realise that a lot of people won't be able to use Raps tickets in December, right? ML$E sure are clever arseholes :mad:

Another interesting thing...I have accessible tickets in 214A at BMO Field because my wife needs a wheelchair from time to time for her disability. So TFC gives me two regular seats at the ACC. They should really be taking disability seating into account. Hopefully my wife will not be in a wheelchair that day or she can't go. Chances are, the way things have been recently, she will be ok that day to walk or with a cane maybe so I haven't decided yet if I am going to tear a strip off of TFC for the seating arrangement.