Today's News,Tuesday,Oct.09

[denime]

Mornin'




TFC TV



(http://www.torontofc.ca/video)Big miss sticks with Toronto FC's Hall after defeat to DC



(http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/10/08/big-miss-sticks-torontos-hall-after-loss-dc)The only crime is to be surprised

(http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3813-The-only-crime-is-to-be-surprised)
(http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3813-The-only-crime-is-to-be-surprised)Canada U-17s humbled in Spain, but coach sees progress (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/10/08/canada-u-17s-humbled-spain-coach-sees-progress)



(http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3813-The-only-crime-is-to-be-surprised)


(http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/10/08/big-miss-sticks-torontos-hall-after-loss-dc)TFC Related Blogs !!



(http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread)


SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)
(http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/09/missed-opportunities)
(http://www.torontofc.ca/video)



(http://www.torontofc.ca/video)

[scooter]

mornin d

[ForeverTFC]

Comments under Ben's great article:


I do sit behind toronto's bench and can tell you and everybody else exactly what happenend and can get you the people that were threatened.

We were all laughing at the display in front of goal on Saturday. That shot attempt that looked like a bad pass and every other blunder became quite comical to us. We were all shouting and saying stuff like..."hay Mariner...that's the clinical finisher you were talkin'bout?!" We were razzing and laughing at each others jokes while all realizing that we are not renewing as a collective group and making fun of how bad MLSE is as a joke product.....this went on for the entire second half.

One person decided to say to Mariner..."hey Mariner...these results are just like the results you had with Plymouth Argyle eh? Can't win there, can't win here..."
Mariner did a 180 and walked over to us, looked at the guy who said it and told him he would settle things with him at the gate! This is 100% fact. We were all beside ourselves...


As for Avila...we all told him in unison that he deserved to be on the field and be a starter...because he deserves to start...he is good enough to start on this team and should only be not playing if he is injured. Emory should NOT be starting or on the roster. Wiedeman should not be starting. Amarkiwa at best is a bench spot. Maund is a bench spot. None of these 4 should be ahead of Avila....Mariner did say "what's Avila going to do??" within the ear shot of him....Eric heard it and looked over....it was a total joke.


Our seats are in the first row of Section 122. I witnessed all of the incidents reported by other postings above, including the threat to the supporter and the comment about Avila.


While for many, Mariner's foul language may not be an issue but, when every second or third work is "fuck" and is loud enough to be heard 15 rows behind the bench, I take issue with his language. This past game, there were three young children in the first row behind the bench. What a terrible role model for these young children! Before every game, the TFC announcer requests all fans to refrain from using foul language but then, immediately after the kickoff, TFC allows the person representing the Club as head coach on the field in full view and ear range of many supporters to rant and rave with the most obscene language. This is the height of hypocrisy and this happens throughout every game right in front of the TFC brass. This past Saturday, the season ticket holder who sits beside us finally had enough after two months of this clown's antics & foul language and texted the TFC folks (the ones to whom you are supposed to report problems) to complain about foul language. The TFC customer agent responded that security would immediately be sent down to address the matter and deal with the person using foul language. Several texts later as the customer agent was trying to get the exact location, it became apparent that the person using the foul language was Paul Mariner. The customer agent then explained that they were only permitted to deal with improper behaviour by the fans and that they could not deal with a coach or player.

[ForeverTFC]

One more for good measure - this is more new than all the garbage put out by journalists.


I was happy to taunt Mariner with "What gate Paul, what gate!" The little coward didn't have the guts to respond and scurried off the field. Between the meet you at the gate and the dick suck, or was it choking, gesture he made at us, this clown has doomed us to another year of failure. I welcome anyone to come over to 122 & 123 for the final match, trust me there are lots of empty seats. Bring your clown noses and we can show him what a fool he really is.

[narduch]

Its pretty sad actually that no media outlet has picked up the story on Mariner's antics during Saturday's game.

But when you have a bunch of guys that are team mouthpieces (Larson, Rollins) and the rest simply regurgitate TFC press releases, there does not seem to be anyone around willing to break this story and blow it up.

And once again the fans lose out due to poor coverage.

[Fort York Redcoat]

That should've been Sunday's news. Who cares now...


International break!! Woooooo!!!

[narduch]

Paul Mariner left for England after the loss to DCU on Saturday.

Apparently his father is very ill and may have passed away.

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3816-Mariner-dealing-with-family-emergency

[johnmolinaro]

I actually looked into the Mariner incident at Saturday's game and exchanged emails with three people who witnessed what happened.

From reading their accounts, I saw it more as Mariner giving back as part of the banter that was going on, as opposed to him threatening or challenging anybody. Had he threatened anybody with violence or actually assaulted someone, that would be an entirely different story. But I wasn't convinced that what Mariner did rose to the level of a threat.

I'm sure many will disagree with my evaluation, but that's the way I see it, so I decided it really wasn't newsworthy.

John Molinaro

[Initial B]

^^ I just read that. If true, I'm willing to cut him a little slack for the way he acted last game. But I still don't think he's the right guy to coach TFC at the moment, but I've resigned my self to his return next year - hoping that he surprises us with the teamhe builds. We'll know by game 6 what the outcome will be.

Thanks for the confirmation John, I thought that's what it might be. As much as many people don't like him, we can't be assuming the worst in everything that he does. I'm sure he's trying his best but is probably a victim of the peter principle.

[Canuckistan]

Hello Everyone,

So I got off the phone with TFC and told them what transpired on Saturday. I was told that I was the first and ONLY call into them. I urge everyone to call them up 416.360.4625 and give their details. I gave them my name as a point of reference...which probably will end up that management takes my seats away from me (i have already contacted my lawyer if it does happen). We pay the most money in the stadium.....it doesn't give us any special priveleges, but it shouldn't happen anywhere in the stadium...especially this section. I agree with the revolters, time to make our voices heard in the final game. Plenty of empty seats behind Toronto's bench...come join us...

EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION....I DON'T LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS SCENARIO. THE FIELD PRODUCT...WELL WE ALREADY KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT THAT...

[Whoop]

It appears Paul Mariner's father has passed away.

[A Stick]

I actually looked into it, and exchanged emails from three people who witnessed what happened.

From reading their accounts, I saw it more as Mariner giving back as part of the banter that was going on, as opposed to him threatening or challenging anybody. Had he threatened anybody with violence or actually assaulted someone, that would be an entirely different story. But I wasn't convinced that what Mariner did rose to the level of a threat.

I'm sure many will disagree with my evaluation, but that's the way I see it, so I decided it really wasn't newsworthy.

John Molinaro

Hi John;

I can see your point on this issue, but why has no one in the media reported Avila warming up incident or the more damning one of Mariner giving section 122 the UK one arm "up yours" salute? The former has a number of eye witnesses and the latter is well documentated (i.e. pictures and it was definitely caught on video twice!). If the Maple Leaf or Raptors coach engaged fans during a game regarding one of his players like that or gave the finger to fans, it would be all over the papers and all hell would have broken loose. To me these actions are down right unprofessional, disgusting and Toronto sports fans needs to know what type of person is in charge of one of their teams! Yes, you have been critical of the TFC situation but to me you seem to be trying to be very diplomatic about events this year (i.e. above) and in the past. There have been far too many incidences over the years that have taken place and the Toronto media has not been overly critical of TFC management (i.e. The Dichio fiasco not on the plane, DeGuzman vs Mariner and the Dero/Celtic clusterfuck). Are you guys are afraid of MLSE and don't want to end up black listed like Bill Waters? These two events which are well documented (i.e. Avila and Mariner's crowd salute) and need to be reported! End of Story!!!:facepalm:

Sincerely; Adrian Stickland

[denime]

Hello Everyone,

So I got off the phone with TFC and told them what transpired on Saturday. I was told that I was the first and ONLY call into them. I urge everyone to call them up 416.360.4625 and give their details. I gave them my name as a point of reference...which probably will end up that management takes my seats away from me (i have already contacted my lawyer if it does happen). We pay the most money in the stadium.....it doesn't give us any special priveleges, but it shouldn't happen anywhere in the stadium...especially this section. I agree with the revolters, time to make our voices heard in the final game. Plenty of empty seats behind Toronto's bench...come join us...

EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION....I DON'T LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS SCENARIO. THE FIELD PRODUCT...WELL WE ALREADY KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT THAT...


Good for you,whoever else was there should call TFC.

[narduch]

Some of the guys covering TFC won't touch this issue because they don't want to upset their source and/or drinking buddy. And for other guys they are mostly beat reporters and this type of story isn't important to them.

Ag Futbol made a good point about this: If you want to see this story progress in the press, you might want to contact Cathal Kelly or Dave Feshuck at the Toronto Star. They aren't part of the TFC beat. They may be more willing to report on this.

Really this should have been a story in Sunday's papers, or at the very least on Monday. As the days pass the story will just die. I guess Mariner lucked out that he did this on a long weekend.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It appears Paul Mariner's father has passed away.

I am sorry for his loss and thank you for you interjecting with this actual life changing news that everyone should take into consideration.

[johnmolinaro]

Hi John;

I can see your point on this issue, but why has no one in the media reported Avila warming up incident or the more damning one of Mariner giving section 122 the UK one arm "up yours" salute? The former has a number of eye witnesses and the latter is well documentated (i.e. pictures and it was definitely caught on video twice!). If the Maple Leaf or Raptors coach engaged fans during a game regarding one of his players like that or gave the finger to fans, it would be all over the papers and all hell would have broken loose. To me these actions are down right unprofessional, disgusting and Toronto sports fans needs to know what type of person is in charge of one of their teams! Yes, you have been critical of the TFC situation but to me you seem to be trying to be very diplomatic about events this year (i.e. above) and in the past. There have been far too many incidences over the years that have taken place and the Toronto media has not been overly critical of TFC management (i.e. The Dichio fiasco not on the plane, DeGuzman vs Mariner and the Dero/Celtic clusterfuck). Are you guys are afraid of MLSE and don't want to end up black listed like Bill Waters? These two events which are well documented (i.e. Avila and Mariner's crowd salute) and need to be reported! End of Story!!!:facepalm:

Sincerely; Adrian Stickland

Well, I'm not sure if you remember but I was the only reporter at the time to cover and write about the Dichio-plane fiasco - to the point where Cummins pulled me into a room and yelled at for me 10 minutes, and I was frozen out by the club for a time. As far as the Dero/Celtic thing, again, I took them to task for that, as did several other reporters, so respectfully I think you're remembering that wrong.

I'm sorry you feel that I have been diplomatic about events this year and in the past. Naturally, I disagree with that view. With regards to the Avila thing and the salute, I think far too much was made of that and didn't merit stories. I'm sure you disagree but that's the way I see it.

And I can't speak for any other reporter covering the team, but I'm not the least bit afraid of being black listed by MLSE.

John Molinaro

[johnmolinaro]

Some of the guys covering TFC won't touch this issue because they don't want to upset their source and/or drinking buddy. And for other guys they are mostly beat reporters and this type of story isn't important to them.

Ag Futbol made a good point about this: If you want to see this story progress in the press, you might want to contact Cathal Kelly or Dave Feshuck at the Toronto Star. They aren't part of the TFC beat. They may be more willing to report on this.

Really this should have been a story in Sunday's papers, or at the very least on Monday. As the days pass the story will just die. I guess Mariner lucked out that he did this on a long weekend.


As stated earlier in this thread I looked into it by contacting 3 different people who told me what happened. I concluded that what Mariner did did not rise to the level of issuing a threat and decided not to write a story.

John Molinaro

[narduch]

As stated earlier in this thread I looked into it by contacting 3 different people who told me what happened. I concluded that what Mariner did rose to the level of issuing a threat and decided not to write a story.

John Molinaro

It should at least get a mention, even if you want to add your own disclaimer.

But skipping it all together it makes it appear that you have a reason to ignore it.

Its a big enough story on it own, but once again TFC fans suffer because the coverage of this team sucks.

[johnmolinaro]

It should at least get a mention, even if you want to add your own disclaimer.

But skipping it all together it makes it appear that you have a reason to ignore it.

Its a big enough story on it own, but once again TFC fans suffer because the coverage of this team sucks.

I understand you feel that way. I disagree. After talking to people, I didn't think it was newsworthy - that's why I ignored it and didn't write about it.

John

[Voodooman]

Mariner's Dad passed away people, give him a break just for today at least.

[Richard]

It should at least get a mention, even if you want to add your own disclaimer.

But skipping it all together it makes it appear that you have a reason to ignore it.

Its a big enough story on it own, but once again TFC fans suffer because the coverage of this team sucks.

You know how players say stupid stuff in the heat of the game, well this might be just that situation for a coach. Im not condoning it but clearly the guy is under a lot of stress(TFC and Personal), I agree with Molinaro's assesment of the situation.

[Greatest Ripoff]

I concluded that what Mariner did rose to the level of issuing a threat and decided not to write a story.

John Molinaro

I am not really sure in what universe a manager threatening supporters at a football match isn't a story. If this was Randy Carlyle threatening Leafs fans it would be front page news. I don't understand why there is so little coverage on TFC by the media.

[narduch]

I am not really sure in what universe a manager threatening supporters at a football match isn't a story. If this was Randy Carlyle threatening Leafs fans it would be front page news. I don't understand why there is so little coverage on TFC by the media.

In the TFC universe, where the media cheerleads for the manager.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I am not really sure in what universe a manager threatening supporters at a football match isn't a story. If this was Randy Carlyle threatening Leafs fans it would be front page news. I don't understand why there is so little coverage on TFC by the media.

Supply and demand.

Just because we are loud does not mean we are many. The many make money.

[johnmolinaro]

I am not really sure in what universe a manager threatening supporters at a football match isn't a story. If this was Randy Carlyle threatening Leafs fans it would be front page news. I don't understand why there is so little coverage on TFC by the media.

Well as I said, I talked to the people involved and I don't think what Mariner said "meet me outside" can be considered a threat. To me it was him using banter to respond to the fan heckling he was receiving.

Now, if he physically touched any fan or threatened violence, that would be another story entirely. But for me this didn't meet the standard of a threat.

John

[johnmolinaro]

You know how players say stupid stuff in the heat of the game, well this might be just that situation for a coach. Im not condoning it but clearly the guy is under a lot of stress(TFC and Personal), I agree with Molinaro's assesment of the situation.

You summed up my position quite nicely, Richard. I dont condone what he said, but I do think it was said in the heat of the moment as a reponse to hecklers and was not meant as a threat. People will disagree with me, and that's fine. But the reason why I didn't write about it was because I didn't think it was newsworthy - and not because I am trying to protect Mariner.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Well as I said, I talked to the people involved and I don't think what Mariner said "meet me outside" can be considered a threat. To me it was him using banter to respond to the fan heckling he was receiving.


In your previous post, you said he did threaten the fans. Was that typo?

"I concluded that what Mariner did rose to the level of issuing a threat and decided not to write a story.

John Molinaro"

And if you did think he didn't threaten the supporters and choose not to write, that is fine. But if you think he did threaten and choose not to write, that is where I see a problem.

[narduch]

In your previous post, you said he did threaten the fans. Was that typo?

"I concluded that what Mariner did rose to the level of issuing a threat and decided not to write a story.

John Molinaro"

Sounds like a Fredian slip....

[v00d00daddy]

Guys...as much as I want Mariner gone (and I have since day one) I just don't think his comments are going to get him fired.

He also took a shot at Avila within Avila's earshot.

His team sucks

His tactics suck.

TFC's record has actually gotten worse under him.

There is quite literally nothing that he can do to be fired. He's been extended for next year and beyond. He's buddies with the most vocal of the media (including you John....despite the fact that I think John is generally pretty fair when it comes to this team).

Here's a question for the media to ask him:

Paul...when you were promoted back in June you said that you're a players manager. Last game many heard you say "what's he gonna do" when fans yelled for you to put in Eric Avila. Avila heard you say it too.

So...how is that an example of being a "players manager"?

Or a more simple one:

Paul...have you considered resigning from your posts at TFC?


Instead we get softball questions with no follow up.

Paul...did you see the signs of protest in the south end? Nope I was watching the game.

Okay then...on to the next completely irrelevant question that attempts to grasp on to some tiny bit of positive spin.

It's become as tiresome as actually watching the games.

No more softball questions...please and thanks.

[johnmolinaro]

In your previous post, you said he did threaten the fans. Was that typo?

"I concluded that what Mariner did rose to the level of issuing a threat and decided not to write a story.

John Molinaro"

And if you did think he didn't threaten the supporters and choose not to write, that is fine. But if you think he did threaten and choose not to write, that is where I see a problem.

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant to say what he did DID NOT rise to the level of issuing a threat. Apologies for confusion.

[ensco]

I agree with John Molinaro. This is not unique in sports. Sam Mitchell used to get into it all the time with courtside fans.

I have said this earlier, I didn't think this was that bad, the anger is really about results. If Mariner were getting results, all his antics would be charming (to a pretty substantial subset, anyway).

But while we're at it, :D, I do think, John, that you can/should do more on the overall Anselmi/Cochrane track record. They are responsible for a historic level of suckitude, and it just doesn't feel like the pressure is on senior management, from knowledgeable folks like yourself. I think it's highly newsworthy. If nothing else, I would think Leaf fans might be more interested in our direct experience with Anselmi.

[DoubleUp]

They are all in cahoots!.

[starter]

Well, I'm not sure if you remember but I was the only reporter at the time to cover and write about the Dichio-plane fiasco - to the point where Cummins pulled me into a room and yelled at for me 10 minutes, and I was frozen out by the club for a time.
...
John Molinaro

Just curios, Winter, while a manager, was relatively freely criticized this year, because he was not freezing reporters out? And PM is 'liked' because he may cut reporters off ?

[narduch]

Just curios, Winter, while a manager, was relatively freely criticized this year, because he was not freezing reporters out? And PM is 'liked' because he may cut reporters off ?

Mariner is liked because he is a drinking buddy / source for breaking TFC news.

Who's going to write a scathing article about TFC and essentially cut off their source for TFC scoops?

[johnmolinaro]

I agree with John Molinaro. This is not unique in sports. Sam Mitchell used to get into it all the time with courtside fans.

I have said this earlier, I didn't think this was that bad, the anger is really about results. If Mariner were getting results, all his antics would be charming (to a pretty substantial subset, anyway).

But while we're at it, :D, I do think, John, that you can/should do more on the overall Anselmi/Cochrane track record. They are responsible for a historic level of suckitude, and it just doesn't feel like the pressure is on senior management, from knowledgeable folks like yourself. I think it's highly newsworthy. If nothing else, I would think Leaf fans might be more interested in our direct experience with Anselmi.

Well again, I have done this. After Winter was let go, I took Anselmi to task in print for the team's failures over the past six years. And I plan to write more in the coming weeks. The problem is I'm not just on the TFC beat, but I write about all soccer in general. So if it seems I'm ignoring what's going on at TFC, it's because I have other stuff on my plate and am focusing on other stuff as per directions from my editor.

John

[johnmolinaro]

Mariner is liked because he is a drinking buddy / source for TFC news.

Who's going to write a scathing article about TFC and essentially cut off their source for TFC scoops?

I can't speak fr anybody else, but I've never used Paul as a source and I've never had a drink with him. I did, however, have drinks with Winter one night in Montreal. I was in the bar and he sat down and joined me - but I wouldn't consider him my drinking buddy.

John

[ensco]

Well again, I have done this. After Winter was let go, I took Anselmi to task in print for the team's failures over the past six years. And I plan to write more in the coming weeks. The problem is I'm not just on the TFC beat, but I write about all soccer in general. So if it seems I'm ignoring what's going on at TFC, it's because I have other stuff on my plate and am focusing on other stuff as per directions from my editor.

John

Fair enough.

Help me here. Why in your opinion does no one on the Leafs/Raptors beat seem interested in Ansemi's track record?

[narduch]

Fair enough.

Help me here. Why in your opinion does no one on the Leafs/Raptors beat seem interested in Ansemi's track record?

My own guesses:

1. NHL lockout
2. TFC is irrelevant to these reporters. They probably don't even know how involved Anselmi was/is.

[ag futbol]

On this "Mariner threatening fans" thing, I would have to state that there is at least reasonable doubt that it's worth publishing. Even of the personal accounts posted by members of this board, a few people stated they thought it was more banter than serious. Not saying it played out that way, but without getting more definitive evidence it would be irresponsible to throw that out there as a story.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the real scandal is his record here at TFC and how that's allowed to continue... along with various other people (Anselmi, Bernier, Cochrane) who aren't held accountable for the continuous failure that has surrounded this club.

[Initial B]

The other thing to remember is that the Leafs and Raptors GMs pretty much control their own balliwick, with no real direction from upstairs. I imagine Anselmi isn't a concern to them because he has no influence on their operations.

And if Paul Mariner doesn't work out, perhaps this guy could give TFC a go...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2012/10/09/sp-soccer-owen-coyle-bolton-premier-league-phil-gartside-jimmy-phillips-sammy-lee.html

[ag futbol]

The other thing to remember is that the Leafs and Raptors GMs pretty much control their own balliwick, with no real direction from upstairs. I imagine Anselmi isn't a concern to them because he has no influence on their operations.

And if Paul Mariner doesn't work out, perhaps this guy could give TFC a go...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2012/10/09/sp-soccer-owen-coyle-bolton-premier-league-phil-gartside-jimmy-phillips-sammy-lee.html
I think that's MLSE's firewall excuse, to keep fan anger focused at the GM level and below.

There is no way around it, the organization has a lot of impact on how GM's do their job. Contracts are still being approved by the board (boo) and so are budgets and other sorts of things. Things like Brian Burke not committing to long-term contracts all the other teams are doing, just smell funny. I doubt he came up with that on his own.

[DangerRed]

I actually looked into the Mariner incident at Saturday's game and exchanged emails with three people who witnessed what happened.

From reading their accounts, I saw it more as Mariner giving back as part of the banter that was going on, as opposed to him threatening or challenging anybody. Had he threatened anybody with violence or actually assaulted someone, that would be an entirely different story. But I wasn't convinced that what Mariner did rose to the level of a threat.

I'm sure many will disagree with my evaluation, but that's the way I see it, so I decided it really wasn't newsworthy.

John Molinaro

The guys who experienced this seem to be saying it was much more than banter. Read p. 2 of the comments on this CSN posting:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3813-The-only-crime-is-to-be-surprised&page=2#comments

[Canary10]

I tend to agree with John. He gave it back to fans heckling him. Not sure that's worth creating a big stink about.

And not sure how many people have interviewed someone in a media situation but lots of the questions people are suggesting Jon and others ask are not going to get the answers you're looking for. They're pretty easy to answe. Like, "have you considered resigining your post?" What do you think he'll answer? It'll be a no and on to the next question.

[A Stick]

Well, I'm not sure if you remember but I was the only reporter at the time to cover and write about the Dichio-plane fiasco - to the point where Cummins pulled me into a room and yelled at for me 10 minutes, and I was frozen out by the club for a time. As far as the Dero/Celtic thing, again, I took them to task for that, as did several other reporters, so respectfully I think you're remembering that wrong.

I'm sorry you feel that I have been diplomatic about events this year and in the past. Naturally, I disagree with that view. With regards to the Avila thing and the salute, I think far too much was made of that and didn't merit stories. I'm sure you disagree but that's the way I see it.

And I can't speak for any other reporter covering the team, but I'm not the least bit afraid of being black listed by MLSE.

John Molinaro

Hi John;

Thank you for responding to my post. Please note that I was generalizing when I stated the Toronto media has been soft on TFC over the years. Regarding yourself, I came to that conclusion after hearing your interview with Stormin Norman on The FAN 590 regarding the he said / he said DeGuzman - Mariner incident. Regarding Avila and the salute, why do you think too much has been made of these incidents?

I appreciate your story regarding Cummins and this only confirms my feelings as to why the media for the most part only throw softball questions to TFC management. You were confronted angrily by a TFC employee regarding a true story that no one else would print and then they froze you out for some time after that. The rest of the media that is not owned by TFC's parent companies (i.e. higher ups MLSE, Bell and Rogers) don't want to rock the boat and be subjected to what you have experienced in the past.


Cheers;

Adrian Stickland

[sashavukelich]

Well again, I have done this. After Winter was let go, I took Anselmi to task in print for the team's failures over the past six years. And I plan to write more in the coming weeks. The problem is I'm not just on the TFC beat, but I write about all soccer in general. So if it seems I'm ignoring what's going on at TFC, it's because I have other stuff on my plate and am focusing on other stuff as per directions from my editor.

John


cheers johno, appreciate the insight. Any sense of the TFC staff feeling under severe pressure for being unable to deliver?

[Pookie]

While it may or may not have been intended as a threat, I do think that on a weekend in which fans were asking for the club to Make Us Proud Again, this was clearly poorly timed.

At some point, the MLS may have to deliver a bit of a warning with respect to engaging fans, berating officials, and touchline antics. They do have fines for this sort of thing. Again for me, the real sad thing is the appearance of contemp for Avila, spoken to fans which was viewed as a slight against his abilities... within earshot of other players. The invite to fight was poor judgment though you can understand a guy blowing his top with the stress he is under.

As for questions, of course you can't ask if he plans on quitting. It would be nice though for there to be some challenge over various things he says.

For example, playing for jobs. Fact, he has used 11 of 18 subs in the last 6 games. How is this consistent?

[johnmolinaro]

Hi John;

Thank you for responding to my post. Please note that I was generalizing when I stated the Toronto media has been soft on TFC over the years. Regarding yourself, I came to that conclusion after hearing your interview with Stormin Norman on The FAN 590 regarding the he said / he said DeGuzman - Mariner incident. Regarding Avila and the salute, why do you think too much has been made of these incidents?

I appreciate your story regarding Cummins and this only confirms my feelings as to why the media for the most part only throw softball questions to TFC management. You were confronted angrily by a TFC employee regarding a true story that no one else would print and then they froze you out for some time after that. The rest of the media that is not owned by TFC's parent companies (i.e. higher ups MLSE, Bell and Rogers) don't want to rock the boat and be subjected to what you have experienced in the past.


Cheers;

Adrian Stickland

Hey Adrian,

It's my pleasure to respond to your post. I've always tried to maintain an open dialogue with people on this board and make myself as accessible to you as possible.

To further address some of your points.

1) I get that you were making a generalization. I just think doing so is unfair because it lumps together all the reporters who cover this team.

2) I honestly don't recall what I said about De Guzman in that interview. Can you remind me?

3) Regarding Avila and the salute... Do I think it was appropriate what he did in each case? No. But I don't think they were egregious enough acts to raise that much of a stink about? No. Were the fireable offences? No. Not in my view, anyway.

4) My story about Cummins should confirm the opposite for you. Most reporters would take such a response as badge of honour and a sign that they are doing their job properly. I didn't like being frozen out for the two weeks, but it hardly slowed me down from doing my job, and I pressed Cummins in the very next media scrum. Reporters strive to get that type of response, believe me.

5) Again, I think it's an unfair generalization to suggest the large portions of the media don't want to rock the boat and throw soft ball questions. As an example, at the new conference to announce Winter's departure, I asked several pointed and direct questions to Anselmi and Mariner, as did a lot of others.

Could we (the regular TFC beat reporters) do a better job of covering this team? I'm not the best person to ask as I keep to myself and don't really follow what other reporters are writing, but my gut feeling is we probably could. That being said, I do think we provide solid coverage of this team, especially in comparison to other MLS teams who have one or maybe two guys who regularly cover the team.

Just my two cents.

John Molinaro

[PAOK17]

You summed up my position quite nicely, Richard. I dont condone what he said, but I do think it was said in the heat of the moment as a reponse to hecklers and was not meant as a threat. People will disagree with me, and that's fine. But the reason why I didn't write about it was because I didn't think it was newsworthy - and not because I am trying to protect Mariner.

I don't think John is trying to protect Mariner. To be honest, I think the word "threatened" is being used loosely. It was heat in the moment. However, if someone were to write a story about what Mariner's brought to the TFC table since arriving, this incident should be thrown in there as well as an overall character description.

Anyway, I think the question most of us have for you John, is that we feel there has been a double standard with respect to Winter vs Mariner situations. Yes Winter had a year and a bit. And yes the team played poorly under him last year for the most part. But I found the media quite critical of him. Things such as him forcing tactics, players not understanding him, etc. It was pretty negative from the get-go. Despite this, the team had seemed to have improved under him after the summer transfer and made it to the quarterfinals of the CCL including a win in Dallas. So unlike Mariner, there was a lot of optimism coming in to 2012.

The start to 2012, despite eliminating the Galaxy and being 45 minutes away from the CL Final, was the worst thing possible. The media, and justifiably so, focused on the 0-9 start. Many of those games were played with many injuries and how many losses were due to a combination of poor finishing and "brain-farts" by poor defenders.

Now, the defence was a huge question coming in and it was not addressed over the off-season. Was Paul Mariner not responsible for finding players for the team? As the GM isn't it his job to sign players that are good for the team? But now we hear that he inherited Winter's team. In other words he's removing responsibilities of the GM position from himself. Basically he is telling us he did nothing last year and he KEEPS his job?

Anyway, it had been reported that Winter had lost the dressing room and probably should have been let go. But, the media has written little about the fact that we have abandoned the attractive 4-3-3 system we were sold 2 years ago. Why has there been no open criticism of this in the media?

I know this was a long post but I'd like to think with respect to management, I have summarized the main grievances that many fans have with the media's handling of TFC's recent decision making.

To be fair to John, I think he's one of few that has actually been critical with TFC in the past. He's also the only (that I know of) who is actually posting openly here without hiding. He doesn't actually owe us any explanations so for that we appreciate the work he does. Personally I think the problem isn't the journalists that cover TFC but that there are so few of them. What we see with the Leafs is due to there being so many people following the Leafs. The fanbase dictates the coverage. All sports could stop in Toronto and Sports Centre could still run high ratings just talking about the Leafs.

[Ajax TFC]

^well said

[tiberius]

...They are responsible for a historic level of suckitude, and it just doesn't feel like the pressure is on senior management, from knowledgeable folks like yourself. I think it's highly newsworthy. If nothing else, I would think Leaf fans might be more interested in our direct experience with Anselmi.

Raptors have only made it to the playoffs twice in ten years - got blown out big time in the first round - both times.

The Leafs practically invented ineptitude with 45 years without a cup.

Hell, TFC is barely starting to warm up for ineptitude - they have big shoes to fill.

Suckitude for these teams is not news - it is the norm. If they ever win - now that would be newsworthy... Sorta along the lines of the second coming.

[ensco]

^No, that's the general point. The specific point is that the guy that has been put in charge of hiring for the Leafs (and Raptors) has a specific track record in terms of hiring people. Which, weirdly, no one (but a few here) cares about.

[narduch]

^No, that's the general point. The specific point is that the guy that has been put in charge of hiring for the Leafs (and Raptors) has a specific track record in terms of hiring people. Which, weirdly, no one (but a few here) cares about.

And I remember the move was universally hated by fans of all 3 teams.

Yet there was no real criticism from the TO sport media.

There was also the laughable idea from some that this was good news for TFC.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Fans heckle bench ... bench responds ... no action after game of any significance ... No Big Deal and certainly not news worthy.
This kinda crap happens all the time. It is no big deal, just a bore.

[TFC Cityboy]

I'm no fan of Mariner's but given that he found out late on Friday night that his Father's condition had worsened seriously, it's to his professional credit that he stayed with the team for saturday's match. I'm sure he was most distracted by his personal situation and as fellow human beings, I suggest we cut the guy some slack in that regard.

Of course, the guys in 122 were not to know this when the thread was started, but from a humanitarian p-o-v, I humbly suggest that Mariner reacted as if it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Professional? No. Understandable when stressed? Yes.

Thanks

[MarkEightThree]

I don't think Molinaro could ever be considered a cheerleader for TFC. I may be wrong, but I believe it was John who made the biggest noise when Winter made the decision to not allow media into the locker room immediately after games last year. I remember being in disbelief earlier this year he predicted in his Sportsnet Magazine MLS preview that TFC would miss out on the playoffs again this year... That was an understatement to say the least lol.

[Canary10]

The problem I see with the Toronto media is that there isn't enough tactical knowledge to really question a coach about decisions made during the game. Most coaches here get off scott free on their decisions, while the media talk in generalities about the team being "over run" or the defense being "weak" or players "not good enough" or whatever.

There are so many instances of this, but one example that really had me was the game where Luis Silva started as a central midfielder, then was subbed at the half for not playing defense. Silva is an attacking central midfielder or a hole player, not a central midfielder. Why did no one question Mariner's man management, playing a guy out of his position, then shitting over him when he fails at it?

Another is that Mariner plays the exact same way tactically game in and game out. He knows only one way to play a 4-4-2, and he's been found out. Why is no one asking why he persists with this every game when it is failing?