New MLS salary update released

[Yohan]

http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html

Did anyone else notice how only few players make big bucks and the rest make league min?

O'Dea at 330k... Morgan still at league min?

[narduch]

O'Dea is also at $436k guaranteed. Over-payment in my opinion based on what I've seen so far. But kind of expected considering he is an Irish international. Poor use of cap space, imo.

Freddy hall is making $44k, as expected. He will probably be back next year, with Kocic being shown the door.

[Canary10]

Also we have the most expensive league worst back line in MLS.

[narduch]

Also we have the most expensive league worst back line in MLS.

Two most expensive defenders in the league with Eckersley and O'Dea.

[Suds]

With Avila @ $125 base and sitting on the bench we can pretty much guarantee he will be gone next year.

[Canary10]

"Two most expensive defenders in the league with Eckersley and O'Dea."

Yup. That's appalling. Even more so given that Kocic makes $44,000. The guy will have to sell a triplet to survive in this city.

[narduch]

With Avila @ $125 base and sitting on the bench we can pretty much guarantee he will be gone next year.

I expect all the players that Mariner doesn't start to be gone. Cann, Williams, Avila, Stinson, Makabuya, etc.

[__wowza]

everytime i see ty harden's salary i die a little inside..

[Suds]

I expect all the players that Mariner doesn't start to be gone. Cann, Williams, Avila, Stinson, Makabuya, etc.

Agreed.

Cann @ $126k, Avila, $125k, Harden $90k (all base) will be gone for sure.

Stinson, D Williams, Makabuya, Lindsay and a few others are on the league minimum or slightly higher. I see us cutting a few of those loose but not all of them.

Kocic will likely be gone depending on Frei's ability to come back. Frei could be valued in a trade though and be moved for other assets.

[v00d00daddy]

Two most expensive defenders in the league with Eckersley and O'Dea.

Is O'Dea's salary pro rated over the whole season or is he on those numbers for the half season that he's played?

And this is just what I feared. 725k (guaranteed) and 540k (base) for two guys in our back line.

Now...consider that this back line has been giving up quite a few goals. So how exactly does it get better? Spend more money?

Wow.

[DangerRed]

Also we have the most expensive league worst back line in MLS.

We not counting Rafa Marquez at NYRB I guess? $4.6 mln guaranteed.

[TFC07]

I knew it! O'Dea is way overpaid! Thanks a lot for killing our cap space, Mariner. Bad signing for club.

[narduch]

The way MLS works, we won't really know until next year if O'Dea and Eckersley got most of their money this year.

I could see Eckersley getting less. But it wouldn't surprise me if O'Dea numbers are the same. We had to over-pay him to come.

[__wowza]

I knew it! O'Dea is way overpaid! Thanks a lot for killing our cap space, Mariner. Bad signing for club.

unless anyone can confirm the length of the signing, we're probably paying half of what he's making against the cap as he came in halfway through the season, would i be correct in that assumption?

[Canary10]

We not counting Rafa Marquez at NYRB I guess? $4.6 mln guaranteed.

At the moment they're playing with Pearce and Holgerson at $300 and $190.

[DangerRed]

Fair point canary.

What stings like piss in the eye is Weedman on $123K.

What the what?!?!?!?

[__wowza]

also, for anyone who cares..

NYRB are at $3,762,369 of the league cap ($15,812,368 in total). so they're got a fantastic accountant.. or a hell of a lot of allocation money.

[Canary10]

^ Yeah, that one is brutal. He must be GA?

[narduch]

He is GA, which is part of the reason TFC is paying De Guzman's salary.

[Canary10]

He is GA, which is part of the reason TFC is paying De Guzman's salary.


Let's look at that trade again. Given that we are paying all but JDG's cap hit for Dallas (half of $330,000), and Wiedeman is making $123,000, I assume half of which we pay for taking him on half way through the season, the savings we got on JDG's contract amount to about $100,000. Was it really worth $100,000 to not have enough central midfielders? On a contract that was going to be up anyway at the end of the year?

The JDG trade was pure bravado and spite on the part of Mariner.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Fuck, that is a lot of money for what O'dea brings to the team.

[brad]

Is O'Dea's salary pro rated over the whole season or is he on those numbers for the half season that he's played?

And this is just what I feared. 725k (guaranteed) and 540k (base) for two guys in our back line.

Now...consider that this back line has been giving up quite a few goals. So how exactly does it get better? Spend more money?

Wow.

I agree that they are both overpaid within the context of the league, but personally I don't draw any conclusions about that those two based on the back line. Ecks at RB, O'Dea at CB paired with another solid CB, and Morgan at LB is a solid back line.

Problem is, no midfield support and no possession they are going to leak goals. Mariners football invites wave after wave of pressure.

Plug the best back line in the league into our team as it stands, and I'm convinced we would still be leaking goals.

[Yohan]

I agree that they are both overpaid within the context of the league, but personally I don't draw any conclusions about that those two based on the back line. Ecks at RB, O'Dea at CB paired with another solid CB, and Morgan at LB is a solid back line.

Problem is, no midfield support and no possession they are going to leak goals. Mariners football invites wave after wave of pressure.

Plug the best back line in the league into our team as it stands, and I'm convinced we would still be leaking goals.
Need a more mobile DM. Essential in MLS

[Canary10]

Need a more mobile DM. Essential in MLS

We need an entirely new midfield. Including this.

[SirBobSaget]

The Impact must have the worlds best contract negotiator working for them. The only salaries that can arguably be considered overpay (Arnaud - 290k, Mapp - 218k, Perkins - 201k) were already established before they joined the team.

New arrivals Camara(75k), Ferrari(185k), Martins(120k), Nesta(225k), Rivas(50k), Bernier(150k) all excellent value.

Isn't Cochrane in charge of contracts for TFC? what a mess!!!

[Yohan]

We need an entirely new midfield. Including this.
Well, yeah lol. If TFC is going to play flat back 4 (and I think this is stupid), TFC needs wingers that will track back once in a while.

[Yohan]

Rivas only played 11 games this year, and is out 5 months due to injury... again. Waste of international spot for Mtl this year

[Greatest Ripoff]

Nesta $225K

O'Dea $436K

How does this make sense?

[Yohan]

Nesta $225K

O'Dea $436K

How does this make sense?
You do know there are quite a few MLS defenders that makes more than Nesta.

[v00d00daddy]

I agree that they are both overpaid within the context of the league, but personally I don't draw any conclusions about that those two based on the back line. Ecks at RB, O'Dea at CB paired with another solid CB, and Morgan at LB is a solid back line.

Problem is, no midfield support and no possession they are going to leak goals. Mariners football invites wave after wave of pressure.

Plug the best back line in the league into our team as it stands, and I'm convinced we would still be leaking goals.

I agree about Mariner's brand of football being garbage...problem is....Ecks and O'Dea are Mariners brand of footballer. Not sure if they can spearhead a defensive line that will be able to win balls AND move it along to a midfield that can keep possession. O'Dea and Ecks are both "boot it out" defenders. Even Eck's distribution is often a 30 yard cross field ball.

And O'Dea paired with another solid CB means, at the very least, another 75-100k for that defender.

1 million dollars along the back line where O'Dea and Ecks are the anchors? No thanks

[spe18]

Nesta $225K

O'Dea $436K

How does this make sense?

Now I can see why the league wouldn't let the Mellberg deal go through lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Canary10]

I agree about Mariner's brand of football being garbage...problem is....Ecks and O'Dea are Mariners brand of footballer. Not sure if they can spearhead a defensive line that will be able to win balls AND move it along to a midfield that can keep possession. O'Dea and Ecks are both "boot it out" defenders. Even Eck's distribution is often a 30 yard cross field ball.

And O'Dea paired with another solid CB means, at the very least, another 75-100k for that defender.

1 million dollars along the back line where O'Dea and Ecks are the anchors? No thanks

I'm not sure O'Dea isn't good enough to be an anchor, and actually I don't think his passing ability is that bad. He doesn't get a whole lot of midfield movement unfortunately, but I think he knows where to place balls for midfeielders if they have the awareness to run into space.

At this point I want to see Henry be his defensive pairing. Screw this Ecks at centre half, Logan Emory, etc. We need to see if Henry can step into the role.

[ag futbol]

I want to see what the cap-hit number is next year, but if it is actually 300k for O'Dea for 2013 I might put on my tinfoil had and assume Mo Johnston was never fired.

[Greatest Ripoff]

You do know there are quite a few MLS defenders that makes more than Nesta.

Ok, then how does that make sense? Montreal is getting one hell of a deal or other teams are over paying?

[Yohan]

I'm not sure O'Dea isn't good enough to be an anchor, and actually I don't think his passing ability is that bad. He doesn't get a whole lot of midfield movement unfortunately, but I think he knows where to place balls for midfeielders if they have the awareness to run into space.

At this point I want to see Henry be his defensive pairing. Screw this Ecks at centre half, Logan Emory, etc. We need to see if Henry can step into the role.
There aren't many good passer CB in MLS. most teams make due with defenders who are ok with passing, but makes it up with keeping it simple when making the first pass out of the backline

[ag futbol]

At this point I want to see Henry be his defensive pairing. Screw this Ecks at centre half, Logan Emory, etc. We need to see if Henry can step into the role.
I'm all for bringing Henry along, but let's not shell-shock the kid. Feed him some minutes when required but otherwise try to protect him from the shit-storm back there.

We need another central defender for next season to take that number one spot.

[Canary10]

I'm all for bringing Henry along, but let's not shell-shock the kid. Feed him some minutes when required but otherwise try to protect him from the shit-storm back there.

We need another central defender for next season to take that number one spot.

Shit man, if O'Dea isn't the number one at that salary this really is a disaster.

[brad]

Nesta $225K

O'Dea $436K

How does this make sense?

One is 36 at the end of his career, one is 25 and has plenty of years ahead of him.

Yes, Nesta was better than O'Dea could dream of being. Yes, he is currently better than O'Dea. However, in O'Dea, we have a quality player that could be with us for years to come.

And of course - TFC overpay for everyone...

[ag futbol]

Shit man, if O'Dea isn't the number one at that salary this really is a disaster.
Even if he is, I'd prefer they bring in a solid #2 rather than push Henry too far too fast. Poor defensive habits just stick to defenders it seems, I think it's a tough environment we'd be asking him to deal with.

As the #3 CB he'd get enough minutes to avoid getting raw, but would be on a short leash so it's harder to make mistakes without getting punished. He may well push the other guy out of his spot by the end of 2013 but the competition and safety net is positive IMO.

[brad]

I agree about Mariner's brand of football being garbage...problem is....Ecks and O'Dea are Mariners brand of footballer. Not sure if they can spearhead a defensive line that will be able to win balls AND move it along to a midfield that can keep possession. O'Dea and Ecks are both "boot it out" defenders. Even Eck's distribution is often a 30 yard cross field ball.

And O'Dea paired with another solid CB means, at the very least, another 75-100k for that defender.

1 million dollars along the back line where O'Dea and Ecks are the anchors? No thanks

O'Dea is a boot it out defender - so that is a valid point.

I'm convinced that Ecks is capable of playing a more possession based game. He would not have lasted as long at Man Utd, and Fergie wouldn't have wanted to keep if he wasn't capable of playing a more possession based game.

I do think that with a better squad and competent manager, Ecks could easily develop into one of the best fullbacks in the league. He ain't gonna get that with Mariner though.

[brad]

There aren't many good passer CB in MLS. most teams make due with defenders who are ok with passing, but makes it up with keeping it simple when making the first pass out of the backline

Ball playing CB's aren't easy to find, and even more difficult when you want to pay them 100-200k. A big problem with the ideal of Winter's system in the MLS that relies so heavily on that type of player.

[TFC07]

Ball playing CB's aren't easy to find, and even more difficult when you want to pay them 100-200k. A big problem with the ideal of Winter's system in the MLS that relies so heavily on that type of player.

This is reason why TFCA is so important for us. Cheap young talented players who can play that type of soccer that Winter tried to accomplished here.

[Canary10]

Even if he is, I'd prefer they bring in a solid #2 rather than push Henry too far too fast. Poor defensive habits just stick to defenders it seems, I think it's a tough environment we'd be asking him to deal with.

As the #3 CB he'd get enough minutes to avoid getting raw, but would be on a short leash so it's harder to make mistakes without getting punished. He may well push the other guy out of his spot by the end of 2013 but the competition and safety net is positive IMO.

I think Henry's old enough. He came through the academy which, in theory at least, should have him further along in development than an NCAA player. And lots of NCAA players come in and contribut at that position right away. See Matt Hedges and Austin Berry for example (two defenders we could have had by the way).

[Auzzy]

O'Dea is a boot it out defender - so that is a valid point.

I'm convinced that Ecks is capable of playing a more possession based game. He would not have lasted as long at Man Utd, and Fergie wouldn't have wanted to keep if he wasn't capable of playing a more possession based game.

I do think that with a better squad and competent manager, Ecks could easily develop into one of the best fullbacks in the league. He ain't gonna get that with Mariner though.

I dunno about Ecks. I've been watching him closely for the last couple of days. He seems to have serious problems with passes longer than about 10 metres. He sometimes also takes long free kicks late in the game; I always cringe because they never work out, not even close. (I wonder if he does better with long passes and free kicks in training; there must be a reason he keeps getting those assignments, perhaps he's too excitable and can't perform that way in a game.)

With his speed, stamina, fairly good ball control, and some vision & off the ball movement (at least compared with other TFC players) he did fairly well IMO at RB with a ball-control-style, short passing game, racing up the wings etc., but TFC doesn't play that way any more. Even then, his crosses aren't great, and he never gets a shot on net even if he's made it all the way to the edge of the opposing penalty area. Note that Ecks had 0 assists in 2011 and only 2 in 2012 in MLS league play; not good enough at his salary, especially considering how much he got forward in the pre-Mariner days. (I think that Wynne had 5 assists for TFC one season, despite all his faults & the feeling he had no ball control & couldn't cross.)

Ecks is a great guy, great player, just not worth that money in MLS. O'Dea at his salary compounds the issue. Most MLS managers know you don't go to the British Isles if you're looking for bargains on soccer players.

[AlanO]

Ecks and O'Dea are overpaid in a salary capped league, but in their defence, most of the goals TFC have given up since O'Dea's arrival have been breakdowns in the midfield.

There's only so much a CB can do when the midfield is a giant vortex of suck. If you're a CB with the ball at your feet, how confident would you be when your main outlets are Aaron Maund and Terry Dunfield? Yeah, I'd boot it up the field too.. (this isn't an excuse for Mariner's tactics - he's put the team in this position)

O'Dea had a stinker on Saturday, but then again, Thierry Henry has made a lot of defenders look foolish.

[denime]

This is reason why TFCA is so important for us. Cheap young talented players who can play that type of soccer that Winter tried to accomplished here.

It is if TFC FO would give a fuck about academy.

4 players who are on TFCA Senior roster are on UofT roster too and Head coach of UofT is TFCA U17 coach.

Kovacevic Mannella,Paunic,Sciacchitano and coach Capotosto.

They are several junior players that should be on Senior team,but no they are wasting their time with juniors,while UofT players getting playing time with Senior academy.

[spe18]

O'Dea is also at $436k guaranteed. Over-payment in my opinion based on what I've seen so far. But kind of expected considering he is an Irish international. Poor use of cap space, imo.

Freddy hall is making $44k, as expected. He will probably be back next year, with Kocic being shown the door.

So how does O'Dea get DP $$$ when he's not a DP? Surely there couldn't be that much in allocation $$$, could there?

[TOBOR !]

Lulz. Every time you turn around, more evidence of FO incompetence.

[jloome]

Lulz. Every time you turn around, more evidence of FO incompetence.

They're both overpaid for our league, but are both good starters, i think, so I don't knock it that much. But our overall roster is just staggeringly weak compared to the rest of the league. Some of the names are so surprisingly out of their depth you can't help but wonder what kind of deal possessed someone to sign them in the first place.


I think everyone in the league is having a good chuckle over the deals in Montreal, with much suspicion of under-the-table compensation (or a house, or Saputo shares, or shares in the club, or a guaranteed after-playing gift contract. If they want to pay them more, they'll find a way.)

But I don't think improving teams are the only one where some staff benefit from that kind of chicanery.

[ensco]

They're both overpaid for our league, but are both good starters, i think, so I don't knock it that much.

You are too kind. Not like you.

They both make more than Chad Marshall! They don't look like good starters, to me, they look average at best. At best.

Meanwhile SJ signed this year a stud CB with WC experience for $100K.

There is no way to paint this as anything other than the epic cap disaster that it is.

[v00d00daddy]

Based on Mariner raving about Amerikwa today on TFC TV...he isn't going anywhere next year. If anyone was wondering. He only makes 44k so he's just fine as a sub to send out for a run.

Starter? I'd hope not.

[Ajax TFC]

It is if TFC FO would give a fuck about academy.

4 players who are on TFCA Senior roster are on UofT roster too and Head coach of UofT is TFCA U17 coach.

Kovacevic Mannella,Paunic,Sciacchitano and coach Capotosto.

They are several junior players that should be on Senior team,but no they are wasting their time with juniors,while UofT players getting playing time with Senior academy.








Would one of those players be Jordan Hamilton? He used to play in TFC reserve games, but now I see him on the junior squad. I realize that those rosters don't really get updated, so do you know if he's one of those players being held back?

[DoubleUp]

Alot of you made some good points in this thread:Brad you were on fire!.


Somebody touched on one of my concerns about players from a certain part of the football world costing far too much money for their over all value.:rolleyes: That being said I also agree with a better midfield we would be able to get some of that value back.

I mentioned in another thread, Canadian international Kyle Porter who is out of contract at the end of the month. He is probably making peanuts and is much better player than wiedamen we would be saving money if we picked up Porter and dropped wiedamen. I also mentioned Ben Zemanski fringe player at Chivas(probably looking to rebuild) who is a great box to box and maybe we could work a deal for Avila.


I also found a potential replacement for Frings in the Middle of the park, might require a transfer fee but he is young enough(28) to be worth it. I won't reveal his name unless you really ask, but the guy could bring that touch of class our midfield is missing and has the quality to activate Silvas full potential!. Thinking about them in the same midfield is orgasmic:drool5:.

[jloome]

You are too kind. Not like you.

They both make more than Chad Marshall! They don't look like good starters, to me, they look average at best. At best.

Meanwhile SJ signed this year a stud CB with WC experience for $100K.

There is no way to paint this as anything other than the epic cap disaster that it is.

Yeah, maybe. I dunno. The money's nuts, but they're both underrated to me as players because of a) Eckersley being played out of position and b) the team around them. it's hard for defensive players to "lift" the play around them the way offensive players can, but it's quite easy for them to look worse.

Both of them, if playing with competent peers, would be among the league leaders in terms of Castrol score, I'd bet.

But there's simple not a defensive position in this league worth more than about $250K, and you're right, there are much better bargains out there. That's another serious Mariner problem: the only market he has contacts in other than the U.S. is England, the most expensive market outside of Spain in the world.

[Ajax TFC]

I also found a potential replacement for Frings in the Middle of the park, might require a transfer fee but he is young enough(28) to be worth it. I won't reveal his name unless you really ask, but the guy could bring that touch of class our midfield is missing and has the quality to activate Silvas full potential!. Thinking about them in the same midfield is orgasmic:drool5:.
Sneijder? or are you referring to Iniesta g:D
although, now that I think of it... actually never mind, I doubt Mariner rates either of them:facepalm:

[DoubleUp]

Sneijder? or are you referring to Iniesta g:D
although, now that I think of it... actually never mind, I doubt Mariner rates either of them:facepalm:


No! this guy is well within our budget, but could be just as influential as them in a MLS setting.

[DoubleUp]

Yeah, maybe. I dunno. The money's nuts, but they're both underrated to me as players because of a) Eckersley being played out of position and b) the team around them. it's hard for defensive players to "lift" the play around them the way offensive players can, but it's quite easy for them to look worse.

Both of them, if playing with competent peers, would be among the league leaders in terms of Castrol score, I'd bet.

But there's simple not a defensive position in this league worth more than about $250K, and you're right, there are much better bargains out there. That's another serious Mariner problem: the only market he has contacts in other than the U.S. is England, the most expensive market outside of Spain in the world.


This might be true of spain, but with their piss poor economy the segunda and even the 3rd division are sure to offer bang for buck.

[TFC07]

It is if TFC FO would give a fuck about academy.

4 players who are on TFCA Senior roster are on UofT roster too and Head coach of UofT is TFCA U17 coach.

Kovacevic Mannella,Paunic,Sciacchitano and coach Capotosto.

They are several junior players that should be on Senior team,but no they are wasting their time with juniors,while UofT players getting playing time with Senior academy.









Was it always like this or this starting to happen once Winter left?

[reggie]

wow..what a joke..o dear is a dime a doz player no way he should be a half mill player.
THE COCH AND CLOWN at there best...jeezzz
i guess the clown found his boss man,the almost millon dollar middle defence have given up 8 goals in the last 2 game..

[Stryker]

Lulz. Every time you turn around, more evidence of FO incompetence.
This team is so fucked it really is mind blowing. I've been checking in every few weeks since spring to see if they're making any headway but at this rate I might as well forget TFC till 2017.

[olo114]

The notion that O' Dea is not worth the money might be true but can we find a comparable center back for cheaper, still young at 25 who starts for a decent national team in Europe. The inflated price is notable however if he did not sign for us for that price he would of been employed right now at least in the Championship in England. I think for next year, the depth chart at center back should be as follows O'Dea, Henry Williams Emory. Eckersley should be moved back to the wing and eventually replaced after his contract is up with an Academy player. I think the idea is to able to finally create a defense with younger core that can kept longer rather then just signing middle of the road experienced defenders who at the end of the day do not work out for TFC.

[Mattsp71]

If I am reading this right Fredrico Higuain of columbus is only making 324,000 is that right? I can't believe he makes less than Eckersley?

[brad]

This might be true of spain, but with their piss poor economy the segunda and even the 3rd division are sure to offer bang for buck.

There are a lot of decent players floating around overseas in the lower leagues that would be interested in coming here, at reduced wages even because they won't have to worry about their paycheque bouncing.

I know that TFC are not unaware of this. I know of one particular player that fits the bill that they were looking at (non-UK) that would have made people jump for joy at even the prospect of.

And no, I can say more - I promised I wouldn't.

[narduch]

The Impact must have the worlds best contract negotiator working for them. The only salaries that can arguably be considered overpay (Arnaud - 290k, Mapp - 218k, Perkins - 201k) were already established before they joined the team.

New arrivals Camara(75k), Ferrari(185k), Martins(120k), Nesta(225k), Rivas(50k), Bernier(150k) all excellent value.

Isn't Cochrane in charge of contracts for TFC? what a mess!!!

In my opinion, the only truly weird contract for Montreal is Nesta's. Camara's came from a lower level French team. Ferrari sounds reasonable based on his career status, and don't forget that there is less money in Italy these days. Rivas flamed out at Inter, his next move was either Italian lower divisions or back home. And Bernier suffers from the low Canadian quota and the fact that Canadians are devalued in MLS.

[narduch]

The notion that O' Dea is not worth the money might be true but can we find a comparable center back for cheaper, still young at 25 who starts for a decent national team in Europe. The inflated price is notable however if he did not sign for us for that price he would of been employed right now at least in the Championship in England.

We don't know that to be true at all. He was released on a free by Leeds. Surely if some other Championship team had made him a decent offer he would have taken that instead. For all we know he was only getting offers in League 1 and decided MLS was a better choice, especially with a team willing to over pay for his services.

Maybe they know something about O'Dea that we don't?

[DoubleUp]

There are a lot of decent players floating around overseas in the lower leagues that would be interested in coming here, at reduced wages even because they won't have to worry about their paycheque bouncing.

I know that TFC are not unaware of this. I know of one particular player that fits the bill that they were looking at (non-UK) that would have made people jump for joy at even the prospect of.



And no, I can say more - I promised I wouldn't.


which position? g:D

[Canary10]

Here's one of the problems with Eckersley at right back: Mariner likes to play with the right midfielder more advanced in a more attacking role, the left midfielder pinched in to the middle of the park giving the left back (Morgan because he has the speed and decent crossing) room to get forward to give width and deliver crosses. In that formation, the right back generally stays back to cover the space in behind the more advanced right mid. Eckersely's salary is a lot to pay a right back to essentially sit back and defend.

[KGH]

No use getting all worked up over people that are already on our books. What I'm more interested in is what we'll do with the cap room opening up. In my estimation we'll have about $650k assuming we don't use the 3rd DP slot + a handfull of allocation. Here's what I'd like to see happening:

Players released or traded:
1) Cann
2) J Hall
3) Avila
4) Harden
5) Hassli
6) Williams
Freed up cap room = ~$850k.

I also expect the following to get released but they don't have any cap impact: Cordon, Lindsay, Makubuya, Weideman (assuming his GA is up).

Don't forget we signed Morgan and Henry to new deals. I imagine they're jumping to about $100k each so that a full $200k cap hit as they would have been home growns and not counted.

Leaves us with ~$650k + allocation + 1 DP slot

Sign Milos but trade him or Frei for either a pick, allocation, or a player who can step in and start. Cap impact here would be minimal.

1) Sign a GA with our first pick. Need an AM that can step in and contribute during the year. Cap hit = $0
2) Sign a Journeyman midfielder who can be a starter. Cap Hit =$200k
3) Hold back $200-300k to see who comes back in to the MLS with our Allocation pick. Hope this would be a forward or Mid. Cap hit $250k
4) 2-3 discovery signings at $50-70k each. Prefereably a back up RB, CB, and forward from south america. Cap hit $170k
5) Wait until the summer window to bring in a new DP forward/Mid. Cap hit $170k
6) Sign 2-3 academy kids. Entry level HG contracts so $0 Cap hits.

Total Spend = $790k. Would provide us with the 5 starters we're away from making the playoffs along with 4-6 kids for growth. This is also assuming that Frings and Koeve are back next year.

Thats how I would do it but anyone can arm chair.

[narduch]

I bet Hassli will be back, as a DP.

[KGH]

I like Hassli but are these the stats of a DP that deserves an extension:

Career Statistics (Regular Season)

Year
Club
GP
GS
G
MIN
A
SHT
SOG
FC
OFF
Y
R


2012
Toronto FC
6
6
3
491
2
18
7
22
8
2
0


2012
Vancouver Whitecaps FC
18
9
2
897
3
28
7
38
13
6
0


2011
Vancouver Whitecaps FC
26
21
10
1865
2
72
28
53
20
8
3


Career Totals
50
36
15
3253
7
118
42
113
41
16
3

[narduch]

I don't think he is worth DP money, I just think Mariner + Cochrane like him.

I doubt he would be willing to re-negotiate his contract to non-DP numbers. He would just go back to Europe if that was the case.

[ensco]

^Hassli can name his price. He has more negotiating leverage than God. Cochrane cannot let him go, the embarrassment factor is too high.

That superdraft pick is going to be a very high pick. Who here doesn't think it'll be number one overall?

[Section 117]

^Hassli can name his price. He has more negotiating leverage than God. Cochrane cannot let him go, the embarrassment factor is too high.

That superdraft pick is going to be a very high pick. Who here doesn't think it'll be number one overall?

If they end up running the team for all of next year it will end up being 1 or 2 because Chivas is just as bad as us. We have competition for the worst team in the world

[Ajax TFC]

Eckersley and O'dea's contracts wouldn't be so horrible if we didn't already have three DPs. We essentially have five players on DP wages which leaves absolutely no room to bring in quality players in other positions

[Pookie]

The Hassli back question is loaded. So too though is the Frings and Koevermans one.

If a team has no depth in 2013, does it make sense to tie up $1M in:

- a 33 year old recovering from ACL surgery
- a 37 year old recovering from hip surgery
- Hassli (32) and injured for much of the 2012 season

For all the flack that Eckersley is getting (undeserved for his salary, IMO), he has missed just 99 of 2,700 minutes. We'd be better off investing in a team of young players like him that can stay healthy and develop.

The idea in NHL circles is well accepted. If you have expensive players that are nearing the end of their shelf life, you move them to teams that want to win immediately and get as many assets back as you can.

That to me is the biggest decision facing Mariner and Cochrane though unfortunately the win or your fired mandate makes it hard to entertain the idea of moving any of them. As a result, we will likely see our 2013 season's fate rest in whether these guys can get off the turf on their next hard challenge.

(assuming of course we don't grab Soler off the open market and do this right)

[Yohan]

(assuming of course we don't grab Soler off the open market and do this right)
TFC fans would lynch Soler for not looking at South America :p

[brad]

There is another interesting side to Hassli as a DP. He is a pretty cheap DP @ $550k/$790k.

While this is pure speculation on my part, if revenues drop next year due to a decrease in STH prices, MLSE might very well be looking to reduce costs accordingly. Keeping Hassli on the books as a DP has a much smaller hit to MLSE than other DP options do, but also lets them maintain optics - "we are investing in the team - we have this DP"

Who knows, food for thought though.

[jloome]

There is another interesting side to Hassli as a DP. He is a pretty cheap DP @ $550k/$790k.

While this is pure speculation on my part, if revenues drop next year due to a decrease in STH prices, MLSE might very well be looking to reduce costs accordingly. Keeping Hassli on the books as a DP has a much smaller hit to MLSE than other DP options do, but also lets them maintain optics - "we are investing in the team - we have this DP"

Who knows, food for thought though.

I suspect that when his best friend was essentially allowed to go on a free (Chiumento) to a swiss team for next year, he decided his Canadian experiment was done. But he was really into ; tatooed a maple leaf and all.

Also underrated because of his health. He has just about a 1-in-2 goal scoring record, which is damn good.

[Blizzard]

I suspect that when his best friend was essentially allowed to go on a free (Chiumento) to a swiss team for next year, he decided his Canadian experiment was done. But he was really into ; tatooed a maple leaf and all.

Also underrated because of his health. He has just about a 1-in-2 goal scoring record, which is damn good.

Three goals in six games is a pretty decent strike record so who knows, without injury, he might have had double that. Ya, he really was into Canada, BC in particular. I recall an article that mentioned how he immediately fell in love with the mountains. I understand that he bought himself some sort of ranch out there.

[sulfur]

[O'Dea] was released on a free by Leeds.
Actually, a bit more complicated than that.

He was on Celtic's books from 2006. In 2010-11, he was loaned to Ipswitch Town, and in 2011-12, he was loaned to Leeds United. Both loans had options to buy, both teams did not pick up the option. At the end of the 2012 season, Celtic declined to pick up the one-year option on O'Dea (through mutual agreement apparently) and O'Dea then signed with TFC at the start of August.

[DoubleUp]

I have no probably with hassli's wage(cheapest dp we've ever had) I think talent/impact wise he's worth it, I also like his style of play.

My problem is his chronic injuries thats where I think he's not worth it, if he could be given a performanced based contract then Iam essentially happy.

[narduch]

Actually, a bit more complicated than that.

He was on Celtic's books from 2006. In 2010-11, he was loaned to Ipswitch Town, and in 2011-12, he was loaned to Leeds United. Both loans had options to buy, both teams did not pick up the option. At the end of the 2012 season, Celtic declined to pick up the one-year option on O'Dea (through mutual agreement apparently) and O'Dea then signed with TFC at the start of August.

Sorry, my bad. I meant Celtic released him.

In the end though, it appears he had little interest from Championship level clubs, which was my main point.

[Pookie]

I have no probably with hassli's wage(cheapest dp we've ever had) I think talent/impact wise he's worth it, I also like his style of play.My problem is his chronic injuries thats where I think he's not worth it, if he could be given a performanced based contract then Iam essentially happy.Challenge though is that he can't be given a performance based cap hit, nor does his DP slot become available each time he misses a game.

[DoubleUp]

Challenge though is that he can't be given a performance based cap hit, nor does his DP slot become available each time he misses a game.


I know we love the other two dp's but.....

[prizby]

For O'Dea and Eckersley's salary ($826,250), you can get:

Andy Gruenebaum ($78,666.67)
Steven Beitashour ($44,100), Victor Bernandez ($100,000), Matt Beslar ($103,001), Ashtone Morgan ($56,000)
Gershon Koffie ($92,500), Juninho ($50,000)
Simon Dawkins ($50,000), Martin Rivero ($50,000.04), Fabian Castillo ($56,250)
Alan Gordon ($120,000)

for a grand total of: $741,517.71 for the starting XI

Add a bench of:
Milos Kocic ($44,100)
Matt Hedges ($59,000)
Austin Berry ($59,000)
Sebastian Grazzini ($50,400)
Joao Plata ($50,000)
Diego Fagundez ($56,000)
CJ Sapong ($82,000)

for a total of $400,500 for the bench

for a grand total of $1,142,017.71 for an 18 man team sheet

that starting XI though costs less than Ecks and O'Dea combined...and probably better than TFC's best XI

[Yohan]

For O'Dea and Eckersley's salary ($826,250), you can get:

Andy Gruenebaum ($78,666.67)
Steven Beitashour ($44,100), Victor Bernandez ($100,000), Matt Beslar ($103,001), Ashtone Morgan ($56,000)
Gershon Koffie ($92,500), Juninho ($50,000)
Simon Dawkins ($50,000), Martin Rivero ($50,000.04), Fabian Castillo ($56,250)
Alan Gordon ($120,000)

for a grand total of: $741,517.71 for the starting XI

Add a bench of:
Milos Kocic ($44,100)
Matt Hedges ($59,000)
Austin Berry ($59,000)
Sebastian Grazzini ($50,400)
Joao Plata ($50,000)
Diego Fagundez ($56,000)
CJ Sapong ($82,000)

for a total of $400,500 for the bench

for a grand total of $1,142,017.71 for an 18 man team sheet

that starting XI though costs less than Ecks and O'Dea combined...and probably better than TFC's best XI
Rivero and Dawkins are both on loan. Castillo is a DP due to transfer fee

[DoubleUp]

Rivero and Dawkins are both on loan. Castillo is a DP due to transfer fee


But you do get the point he's trying to make, right???

[Yohan]

But you do get the point he's trying to make, right???
That every team has few bargain salary players? Yep. Tfc has a few of them too

[nonc]

Morgan still at league min?

I'm pretty sure Morgan's extension, technically starting in 2013, will be at least 90k otherwise his agent is terrible.

[Initial B]

The idea in NHL circles is well accepted. If you have expensive players that are nearing the end of their shelf life, you move them to teams that want to win immediately and get as many assets back as you can.

That to me is the biggest decision facing Mariner and Cochrane though unfortunately the win or your fired mandate makes it hard to entertain the idea of moving any of them. As a result, we will likely see our 2013 season's fate rest in whether these guys can get off the turf on their next hard challenge.

What scares me is the fact that the win or your fired mandate means that Mariner will be moving out all our youth to get all those veterans at the end of their shelf life to help them win next year. When, not if, TFC misses the playoffs next year, this scorched earth policy will leave the club in absolute ruins with a bunch of old players nobody will trade for and no potential coming up through the ranks. At this point next year, support really will be dead and the financial armaggedon that will befall this club as SSH numbers fall below 5K will force MLS to either relocate or fold this franchise like they did with Tampa Bay.

[ag futbol]

That every team has few bargain salary players? Yep. Tfc has a few of them too
well that, and as a whole we are crap at getting value for our $.

[DoubleUp]

well that, and as a whole we are crap at getting value for our $.

Was it that obvious?!.:rolleyes:

[prizby]

Rivero and Dawkins (and juninho) are both on loan. Castillo is a DP due to transfer fee

loan or not, dp or not, their cap hit based on salary is near the bottom

[Yohan]

loan or not, dp or not, their cap hit based on salary is near the bottom

I'm pretty sure transfer fees hits cap space, unless allocation money is used

[ag futbol]

I was somewhat bored so I calculated some statistics based on the most recent salary update. No guarantee they are right :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88329321@N08/8067061282/in/photostream/lightbox/

You'll notice that if you had more players over 100k, you generally made the playoffs... if you had less players over 100k you generally didn't. If I have time I might try to do the same thing for the 2011 and 2010 seasons. Although, you know how the saying goes: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[jloome]

I was somewhat bored so I calculated some statistics based on the most recent salary update. No guarantee they are right :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88329321@N08/8067061282/in/photostream/lightbox/

You'll notice that if you had more players over 100k, you generally made the playoffs... if you had less players over 100k you generally didn't. If I have time I might try to do the same thing for the 2011 and 2010 seasons. Although, you know how the saying goes: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I honestly haven't looked but it would seem logical that the ones with fewer players above 100K have to have lower-end salaries that accommodate a handful of upper end salaries.

So they win because they have more balanced rosters.

The issue of how they get them is something else. I smell a lot of cap cheating in this league; Montero, who was rated over a million bucks and had a tryout at one of the Spanish clubs right before seattle, came in at 150,000, or something. Victor Bernardez, and international quality defender at San Jose, at $100,000; Arne Friedrich on $175,000; Adam Johansson and Christen Wilhelmson, both Swedish internationals, the former at $175,000 and the latter on the Galaxy, which shouldn't be able to afford to sign ANYONE at this point, let alone a Swedish international FB/winger.

Seriously, the cap in this league is a joke. Or we're that f'ing bad at signing people for bargains. But doesn't anyone else get the sense that there's a whole lot of Skalbania-style antics here? I bet every one of those Italian guys in Montreal is living for free while here.

[azorean10]

I honestly haven't looked but it would seem logical that the ones with fewer players above 100K have to have lower-end salaries that accommodate a handful of upper end salaries.

So they win because they have more balanced rosters.

The issue of how they get them is something else. I smell a lot of cap cheating in this league; Montero, who was rated over a million bucks and had a tryout at one of the Spanish clubs right before seattle, came in at 150,000, or something. Victor Bernardez, and international quality defender at San Jose, at $100,000; Arne Friedrich on $175,000; Adam Johansson and Christen Wilhelmson, both Swedish internationals, the former at $175,000 and the latter on the Galaxy, which shouldn't be able to afford to sign ANYONE at this point, let alone a Swedish international FB/winger.

Seriously, the cap in this league is a joke. Or we're that f'ing bad at signing people for bargains. But doesn't anyone else get the sense that there's a whole lot of Skalbania-style antics here? I bet every one of those Italian guys in Montreal is living for free while here.

agreed, especially Montreal and L.A!!! ...something does'nt add up

[ag futbol]

Seriously, the cap in this league is a joke. Or we're that f'ing bad at signing people for bargains. But doesn't anyone else get the sense that there's a whole lot of Skalbania-style antics here? I bet every one of those Italian guys in Montreal is living for free while here.
Probably a little of each.

They've set themselves up to be ripe for cheaters. On the high-end of the scale clubs are bagging a lot more cash than MLS let's them pay out.

They could be utilizing loopholes as well. That's always a possibility.


I honestly haven't looked but it would seem logical that the ones with fewer players above 100K have to have lower-end salaries that accommodate a handful of upper end salaries.

You'd be surprised ... both LA and NY both have quite a few guys paid over 100k. The big spenders aren't as cap-tied as we might otherwise assume.

[Blizzard]

I'm pretty sure transfer fees hits cap space, unless allocation money is used

Absolutely they do. You can amortize over the length of the contract though.

[Auzzy]

Great work ag futbol!

Good chance that there's funny stuff happening with some of these low salaries on other teams. For example, Saputo has connections in Italy. Even if players aren't getting money or free housing on the side here (which is all not allowed), what happens if some money is being funnelled to their "retirement" savings in Italy? How the hell would MLS know?

However, surely TFC is also screwing up. Signing guys like Mista. Or even JDG, at a massive salary, with injury, and then not finding a way to use him well for most of his time in Toronto. Overpaying for a RB from the UK. Getting almost nobody from South or Central America -- look at some of the great deals other teams have found from those areas. No, we get Caicedo and Aceval instead. Or pay alot for Vitti, and can't figure out how to use him. Guevara did well most of the time -- but he was already well-known in MLS -- and then we lost him when TFC signed a coach he couldn't stand. Plata we only got because he was in the draft, and because no other team was willing to blow a $500k transfer fee on him. Then we lose him due to another coaching change -- let's see if Plata comes back, I'm not holding my breath.

I'm sure that TFC having the lowest median salary in the whole league, is not a good thing... Although they're tied with Seattle with that stat, and they're doing alight.

Rumour has in fact been, that if TFC has done something illegal, it was not to squeeze better players in under the cap, but maybe some kickbacks, or sleazy deals with certain agents?!? Nothing proven, but there have been enough rumours.

[Pookie]

Good stuff here

One thing that is missing from this conversation though is that the MLS Players Union is very clear that it includes any agent fees in the guaranteed number. For that reason, many analysts believe it is the base number that counts against the cap.

The agent business, in international football, can be a lucrative one... ask Philly about that.

To that end, our $1m Backline becomes much less in light of the base number.

[ag futbol]

Great work ag futbol!

Thanks man. Median was interesting and it did highlight TFC’s front-end loaded roster but I think it was similarly smelly league wide. Really that (and the median salary league wide) tells us a bit of what we already know: teams have practically no depth.
Personally, I’m not against some of the more aggressive measures teams might be taking, especially if it relates to housing. When Sanyang and Gomez were playing for TFC, they lived in Chris Cummins basement because they couldn’t possibly afford to live on their own for what they were paid. Really, the time has come for MLS to raise the minimum wage to 75k or so (at a minimum).
Point or two of clarification:


I used the total guaranteed compensation figure for measuring salary
Player x through x is arranged in order of salary. Ie highest played player is “player 1” and so on and so forth

[ensco]

^Problem for us is, it just doesn't pay to play by the rules, or get mad, you just have to play the game.

It hasn't been about sportsmanship for a long time. Uruguayans and Scousers all love Suarez, they love the guy. Panamanian supporters do what they did outside the Canadian hotel in Panama City, and to the team bus, and they get celebrated like heroes. Panama should be tossed out of FIFA for that. But they never will be.

[jloome]

^Problem for us is, it just doesn't pay to play by the rules, or get mad, you just have to play the game.

It hasn't been about sportsmanship for a long time. Uruguayans and Scousers all love Suarez, they love the guy. Panamanian supporters do what they did outside the Canadian hotel in Panama City, and to the team bus, and they get celebrated like heroes. Panama should be tossed out of FIFA for that. But they never will be.

Oh, I don't point it out to be moralistic; I know MLS clubs hide significant profits off the books -- just look at the Galaxy's income the first year of Beckham mania and then look at that team's jersey sales alone. So they might as well hide costs off the books as well. I'm just irritated that we don't seem to be doing it. We have basically six players paid a ton and then a bunch at the lower end. It's absurd. Buy us some depth! An apartment here, an overseas investment fund there....

[ENBSports]

Depth in the MLS is not created through salary cap

It's created in the draft specializing in players who are listed as GA
It's created by the Homegrown system in developing players
It's created by bringing in players from NASL and USL Pro and players with experience of the American Soccer system.

Yes Toronto has failed in terms of DP with De Guzman and now Hasili and Kovermans and Frings have at best been ok but they also paid 390K for Ekersley and 436K for O'Dea salaries - players who are probably at best England League One caliber. We have a history of that from Welsh, Ricketts, Martina, to Soolsma

The reason why TFC sucks is bad management plain and simple we are the Raiders of the NFL, the Islanders of the NHL and the 90's Clippers of the NBA and I would argue probably worse than all three because at least they know something about the sport there involved in and until someone is capable of changing that and fixing it we will be worse team for many years to come.