Mariner: I have the best job in the league

[jloome]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/10/03/toronto-fcs-mariner-i-have-best-job-league

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

Best job in the league indeed. Job security for being utter shit at everything he has done for the club.

I can't wait to see this schmuck get the axe.

[TFC07]

So Mariner is coming back for next season! Good to know, ML$E.

You're going to stick with a guy who has failed and hasn't showing any improvements while you're losing interest and fanbase rapidly.

Now I hope people boycott TFC until they clean house in management side.

[[NBF]]

i posted this under management quotes theres some real gems in there.

"The new board are fantastic"

"The international scouting is under well underway(I got my bags packed for Bermuda)".

"The NCAA scouting is done already(meaning the NCAA season was done)."

[andyc]

He'll still get his contract paid out even if he is fired... Greatest job in the world!!!

:drinking:

[ensco]

Every time Mariner talks, he reminds me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno&sns=em

[Yohan]

So Mariner is coming back for next season! Good to know, ML$E.

You're going to stick with a guy who has failed and hasn't showing any improvements while you're losing interest and fanbase rapidly.

Now I hope people boycott TFC until they clean house in management side.Mariner is not getting fired. He convinced the head honchos that TFC's poor record is due to injuries and that with few signings, TFC will be competitve next year

[TFC07]

Mariner is not getting fired. He convinced the head honchos that TFC's poor record is due to injuries and that with few signings, TFC will be competitve next year

I am sure ML$E would rather fire Mariner than losing money. This is why it's people to boycott TFC order to send a message to ML$E.

[tfcleeds]

Yep, I'd say it's a pretty sweet gig where results don't seem to matter, and you'll be kept on anyway. No surprises there, Paulie.

[denime]

So Mariner is coming back for next season! Good to know, ML$E.

You're going to stick with a guy who has failed and hasn't showing any improvements while you're losing interest and fanbase rapidly.

Now I hope people boycott TFC until they clean house in management side.

Toronto FC 2012 Boycott (https://www.facebook.com/TorontoFc2012Boycott?ref=stream)

[Pookie]

This is the stuff that drives me nuts:

“We’re not that far away on the field,” he said. “We’ve got to get some of our big players fit and back in business and then we just add five max, four definitely, and we’re in business.”


So, a big part of the plan is to rely on the health of two players that are over 30 and fresh off the operating table and another (Hassli) who is also in his 30s and hasn't exactly been a stranger to injuries in his career?

Does anyone stop for a minute to think that the fact that there are injuries to players of this age group isn't exactly considered a shocking turn of events?

[Shakes McQueen]

I think he has done a poor job and should be removed from his post for it, but I don't really get the "three minutes hate" over benign puff-pieces like this. He says he has a great job, has started scouting for signings, and thinks we will make strides next season -- all of the standard pablum any manager would give.

I'm unmoved by his vapid, empty words, but certainly not driven to rage over them either. They are barely worth mention.

Here's the real headline: "Manager of Losing Team Says They Will Get Better". That's earth-shattering stuff right there.

- Scott

[Auzzy]

^^ So, we're regressing. Under Mo & a few coaches since then, we (supposedly) needed 3 players. Now it's 4 or 5 players we need. Plus a bunch of big (and mostly old) players have to recover perfectly from long-term injuries.

[Shakes McQueen]

This is the stuff that drives me nuts:

“We’re not that far away on the field,” he said. “We’ve got to get some of our big players fit and back in business and then we just add five max, four definitely, and we’re in business.”


So, a big part of the plan is to rely on the health of two players that are over 30 and fresh off the operating table and another (Hassli) who is also in his 30s and hasn't exactly been a stranger to injuries in his career?

Does anyone stop for a minute to think that the fact that there are injuries to players of this age group isn't exactly considered a shocking turn of events?

In the same vein, is it considered shocking that his plan includes having our two expensive big-name designated players, who are still under contract, back in the lineup?

- Scott

[jazzy]

^^ So, we're regressing. Under Mo & a few coaches since then, we (supposedly) needed 3 players. Now it's 4 or 5 players we need. Plus a bunch of big (and mostly old) players have to recover perfectly from long-term injuries.

I can hardly wait until year what? 9/10 when we admit needing 10 new signings and finally star over.......arghhhh, I will never respect MLSE.....as the feel the same for me obviously

[reggie]

what a ffffking joke...i cant wait to not give them my money for next season..

welcome to THE COCH AND CLOWN ERA

[Pookie]

In the same vein, is it considered shocking that his plan includes having our two expensive big-name designated players, who are still under contract, back in the lineup?

- Scott

It is shocking, if he is hanging his hopes on Danny's ACL and Torsten's 37 year old post surgical body.

A more prudent thing to say might be to say nothing of them at this time and leave your options open. One of those contracts could be bought out in the offseason. Perhaps Torsten could be moved for a really attractive package of youth and picks. Being a vet with one year left on his deal, his long term value to the team is basically nil. But his short term value to a team ready to win might be significant.

Unless of course he is giving himself another out should these guys not return or at least not of their former health. To not plan for this very real possibility is what is troubling.

[denime]

In the same vein, is it considered shocking that his plan includes having our two expensive big-name designated players, who are still under contract, back in the lineup?

- Scott

In our case,yes it is.

Koev wont be back before July next year,ACL injury takes a year to recover and at his age will be even more difficult to get into a game form,look at Cann and Williams how long it took to be back,and Frings coming back after hip surgery and not liking Mariner's system(like he has a system,hooooof it and go) will be another shocker if you ask me.

To believe that they are scouting is a story for little kids,or I like how Mariner said about NCAA everything is doe all he has to do is watch few games,WHEN,when Mariner is planing to go and watch NCAA games,in December when NCAA season is finished.

The whole article is PR to make fans believe and be positive for next year,does he thinks he has the best job,I'm sure he does and he probably has the best job in MLS,winless in 11 and have secure job for next year is possible only in Toronto with ML$E as an owner,with any other owner he would be gone,in any other city fans would chase him out of town,it is by far the damn best job in MLS.

[mastermixer]

Mariner is not getting fired. He convinced the head honchos that TFC's poor record is due to injuries and that with few signings, TFC will be competitve next year

That is the core of the problem with TFC. THe head honchos are not smart enough to realize that this is not the case, and we will see the same shit show next year.

[Whoop]

The problem is giving out extensions way too early, before the results are in.

They did that with Mo, they've done that with Mariner.

[TOBOR !]

This is as good a place as any to put this...

I posted the query 'what are your thoughts on Paul Mariner as a head coach / manager ?' on a Plymouth Argyle site (remember, he is a legend there as a player).

Here are some comments :


If enthusiasm guaranteed success we'd be in the Premier League with him. Sadly it needs slightly more than enthusiasm to be a good manager and he just didn't have it.


Shocking your fans need to get this fool out of your club if you want your club to rise back up the league


28 games 7 wins 6 draws and 15 losses, clueless and couldn't motivate us, basically a great player does not a manager make.


PM had no man management skills !! it was the best thing pafc did letting him go, he was a good player but certainly No Manager.


Looked like a 50 year old Harry Potter but not magic in any way. Sad to see a club legend end like he did.


Dreadful manager, dreadful signings and dreadful tactics.


he was an absolute disaster with no tactical ability or contacts in the game to bring in decent players


Utter, unparalleled and unmitigated ineptitude.


Mariner may have been a class player been he was not a class manager.


Super player P M. Not successful as a manager / coach


a very passionate coach but sadly had no ideas at all tactically or in the transfer market

Are you ready for three more years of this ?

[narduch]

The problem is giving out extensions way too early, before the results are in.

They did that with Mo, they've done that with Mariner.

Its not only that, its than doubling down the next season with a guy long past his best before date.

Imagine where we would be today if Johnston was fired at the end of 2009? (of course, with Anselmi in charge, probably right where we are anyways).


Are you ready for three more years of this ?

I don't expect 3 more years of this, unless Mariner pulls off a miracle and makes the playoffs next season.

I fully expect another mid-season manager firing.

[Auzzy]

This is as good a place as any to put this...

I posted the query 'what are your thoughts on Paul Mariner as a head coach / manager ?' on a Plymouth Argyle site (remember, he is a legend there as a player).

Here are some comments :


Are you ready for three more years of this ?

Wow, that's amazingly depressing. On a Plymouth Argyle site?!? When did you post that question & get the responses, just recently? Out of interest, were there any positive comments about Mariner as coach/manager?

[TOBOR !]

Wow, that's amazingly depressing. On a Plymouth Argyle site?!? When did you post that question & get the responses, just recently? Out of interest, were there any positive comments about Mariner as coach/manager?

this is recent, and no, there were no positive comments relating to his coaching / managing ability.

Some folk avoided criticizing him, and defended his legensary status with the club, but no-one said he was a good manager.

Sadly, when I asked him what he thought of the plight of the club (PAFC), and the pending purchase by hotelier James Brent, at the TFC end-of-season shindig last year, Mariner said 'anyone who buys that club is a fool'. I didn't know what to say.

I guess he only looks forward.

[ag futbol]

It is shocking, if he is hanging his hopes on Danny's ACL and Torsten's 37 year old post surgical body.

A more prudent thing to say might be to say nothing of them at this time and leave your options open. One of those contracts could be bought out in the offseason. Perhaps Torsten could be moved for a really attractive package of youth and picks. Being a vet with one year left on his deal, his long term value to the team is basically nil. But his short term value to a team ready to win might be significant.

Unless of course he is giving himself another out should these guys not return or at least not of their former health. To not plan for this very real possibility is what is troubling.
Welcome to next year's built-in excuse for losing.

"Oh if only we had younger designed players that were more healthy, clearly the previous management team made a mistake that prevents me from succeeding. I love being TFC manager so much, give me one more year so I can show you what I can do."

Don't laugh, I can already picture it happening.

[tfcleeds]

Hahaha, '50 year old Harry Potter' - I think that's banner worthy.

[Canary10]

I'm surprised people there are that negative about him. I did a lot of reading of blogs, message boards, newspaper articles and interviews during his time at Plymouth for a piece on TypicalTFC.ca and no one seemed particularly opposed to him. The general consensus seemed to be indifference. At the time, Plymouth were trying to secure themselves as a site for England's 2018 World Cup bid, and the supporters were really pissed with the front office for putting so much money and effort into that while the team on the field was going to shit. So maybe he got off easy with supporters while they directed anger at the front office, and with time they realized how shit he is.

[DangerRed]

This is the stuff that drives me nuts:

“We’re not that far away on the field,” he said. “We’ve got to get some of our big players fit and back in business and then we just add five max, four definitely, and we’re in business.”


So, a big part of the plan is to rely on the health of two players that are over 30 and fresh off the operating table and another (Hassli) who is also in his 30s and hasn't exactly been a stranger to injuries in his career?

Does anyone stop for a minute to think that the fact that there are injuries to players of this age group isn't exactly considered a shocking turn of events?

Sorry, but this guy's SUCH an asshole making these comments. So wait, we're 4 or 5 players away from being competitive? You had the time and the power to sign and release and recommend the signing and the releasing of DOZENS of players at TFC now. You've failed miserably. Yet you claim next year will be different somehow?

WOW. I don't know who in TFC's PR department prepares Mariner for interviews, but they should get their head checked. If they know anything about the fan base, they should have Paul out there admitting abject failure and talking about how he's going to take a long, hard look at what went wrong and what needs to be repaired for next season, because clearly this squad is miles from home.

Four or five players. Get the fuck outta here.

[narduch]

I don't know which article annoys me more, this one, or the one where Earl Cochrane tells us he's ANGRY.

The part at the end about the players makes me laugh though. Obviously this mess isn't Mariner's fault. The players just aren't up the the challenge.

[starter]

Could somebody remind me who actually advised Anselmi to hire Mariner?

[narduch]

Could somebody remind me who actually advised Anselmi to hire Mariner?

The rumour is that Earl Cochrane hired Mariner, before Anselmi decided on Winter.

When Winter was hired, he was stuck having Mariner as help because they didn't want to have to pay him to do nothing.

The rest is history.

[denime]

The rumour is that Earl Cochrane hired Mariner, before Anselmi decided on Winter.

When Winter was hired, he was stuck having Mariner as help because they didn't want to have to pay him to do nothing.

The rest is history.

But they end up paying him to do nothing for 18 months,and than before he took over Coaching job,gave him contract extension just because he was so good of doing nothing.Now when I see him coaching I wish they keep paying him to do nothing and let someone else do his job.

[starter]

The rumour is that Earl Cochrane hired Mariner, before Anselmi decided on Winter.

When Winter was hired, he was stuck having Mariner as help because they didn't want to have to pay him to do nothing.

The rest is history.

Thanks, if that was the case, then Earl has engineered the 'balance of power' to help his own survival. I do not think TFC success was his basic intention here.

[narduch]

And just to add to that, the 3-year extension Anselmi gave Mariner was seen as a way to 'make things right' for sort of screwing Mariner over 2 years ago.

Of course the proper thing to do was to make Mariner the interim manager. Not secretly extend his contract and give him full control.

[Pookie]

And just to add to that, the 3-year extension Anselmi gave Mariner was seen as a way to 'make things right' for sort of screwing Mariner over 2 years ago.

Of course the proper thing to do was to make Mariner the interim manager. Not secretly extend his contract and give him full control.

I actually don't have a major issue with a contract extension for guys who work contract to contract PROVIDED there is flexibility and it is seen for what it is. A golden parachute.

^ Ron Wilson of the Leafs was extended and then fired. He's collecting a handsome cheque now while he finds other work. No issues with that. In some ways, it might actually improve the club's reputation for future managers about the way they treat their employees.

In TFC land, now that Soler is available (amongst others), it would be ridiculous not to at least pick up the phone and gauge interest. There wasn't a search at the time Winter was let go and this contract extension/golden parachute, shouldn't preclude the team striving to bring in the best available.

[narduch]

The problem is that Mariner did nothing to earn the 3-year extension.

[tfcleeds]

The rumour is that Earl Cochrane hired Mariner, before Anselmi decided on Winter.When Winter was hired, he was stuck having Mariner as help because they didn't want to have to pay him to do nothing.The rest is history.So what happened then? Was Mariner hired before Klinsmann offered his recommendations? I find it hard to believe that Mariner would have been recommended as someone to implement TFC's "new vision". And if he wasn't, was Cochrane going over the heads of everyone else in the Mariner appointment? This organization is so f-ed up.

[narduch]

So what happened then? Was Mariner hired before Klinsmann offered his recommendations? I find it hard to believe that Mariner would have been recommended as someone to implement TFC's "new vision". And if he wasn't, was Cochrane going over the heads of everyone else in the Mariner appointment? This organization is so f-ed up.

I have no idea what really went on back then. I can't wait to get the full story one day, if ever.

We do know that Cochrane traded for Sturgis and signed Sidra, Ent and Ornoch. He did have some form of power.

Days or weeks before Winter was hired, Paul Mariner rumours started to pop up. And even the day Winter was announced there were rumours of Mariner as head coach. I'm guessing Cochrane hired Mariner to be head coach, but then the marketing department put a stop to that and Winter was hired.

[ryan]

The best job in the world? Surely.

If not being qualified, being able to act a fool and get away with utter failure isn't the best job, I don't know what is.


New banner idea

"EVEN ARGYLE HATES PAUL"

[DoubleUp]

This is as good a place as any to put this...

I posted the query 'what are your thoughts on Paul Mariner as a head coach / manager ?' on a Plymouth Argyle site (remember, he is a legend there as a player).

Here are some comments :























Are you ready for three more years of this ?

This is very disheartening, and the fact management has been fooled by this tom-foolery is something even worse.

I am truely exasperated by this situation, how could we let this poison into such a forward thinking cosmopolitan like Toronto.

[Canary10]

So what happened then? Was Mariner hired before Klinsmann offered his recommendations? I find it hard to believe that Mariner would have been recommended as someone to implement TFC's "new vision". And if he wasn't, was Cochrane going over the heads of everyone else in the Mariner appointment? This organization is so f-ed up.

I can't claim to know what happened. But after reading probably a hundred or so articles during PM's time at Plymouth and watching a number of interviews with him, I have to say I found it odd that a guy who so obviously wanted to be a head coach took what looks like a backward step in leaving an assistant position for a Director of Football position. I wouldn't at all be suprised if he was promised the head coaching job, if not immediately, then soon. Of course, I believe he lacks his UEFA coaching badges, so he probably wouldn't go far in coaching in Europe.

[West220Side]

Could somebody remind me who actually advised Anselmi to hire Mariner?

Probably us, I recall us all saying 'Hire Paul Mariner, or/and Steve Nicol' in the past.

[starter]

Probably us, I recall us all saying 'Hire Paul Mariner, or/and Steve Nicol' in the past.
I do recall the boards man crush on Nicol, but not that much on Mariner. :D

[Section 117]

The sad things is he (Mariner) doesn't have to answer to anyone. After the New York game the idiot went back home to Boston, I have never heard of a professional team having three days off after a loss especially when they are so bad. The players can't believe how he acts on the sidelines and how he calls them out after games. He is a drunk and has most of the journalists and people in the club as his drinking buddies, hence why they dont criticize him.

Frings is done he will not play for that idiot. He is not even hurt, he was just sick of the bullshit tactics. If it was up to Mariner he would get rid of the academy and get rid of all of the Canadian players except Dunfield as "he is the best box to box midfielder in the game" Morgan will be traded in the offseason as he is being shopped as we speak. We will lose our best academy prospects cause Mariner thinks they are all crap.

The FO must fire Earl for the constant screw ups and Mariner as he is lost and has no clue period. I could careless what happens to the balance of the FO as they don't really make a difference with the product on the pitch. If he stays expect a Toronto Maple Leafs fix circa the nineties sign veteran guys with the hope of squeaking into the playoffs and at the same time screwing the cap so who ever takes over will be handcuffed and it will take two or three years to get out of the mess Mariner and earl created.

[Canary10]

The sad things is he (Mariner) doesn't have to answer to anyone. After the New York game the idiot went back home to Boston, I have never heard of a professional team having three days off after a loss especially when they are so bad. The players can't believe how he acts on the sidelines and how he calls them out after games. He is a drunk and has most of the journalists and people in the club as his drinking buddies, hence why we dont criticize him.

Frings is done he will not play for that idiot. He is not even hurt, he was just sick of the bullshit tactics. If it was up to Mariner he would get rid of the academy and get rid of all of the Canadian players except Dunfield as "he is the best box to box midfielder in the game" Morgan will be traded in the offseason as he is being shipped as we speak. We will lose our best academy prospects cause Mariner thinks they are crap.

The FO must fire Earl for the constant screw ups and Mariner as he is lost and has no clue period. I could careless what happens to the balance of the FO as they don't really make a difference with the product on the pitch. If he stays expect a Toronto Maple Leafs fix circa the nineties sign veteran guys with the hope of squeaking into the playoffs and at the same time screwing the cap so who ever takes over will be handcuffed and it will take two or three years to get out of the mess Mariner and earl created.

Ha, speaking of screwing the cap, the MLS salaries were released today. Seems they're hard at work making your prediction a reality.....

[DoubleUp]

Probably us, I recall us all saying 'Hire Paul Mariner, or/and Steve Nicol' in the past.


I remember that too, I'll never forgive that crowd for that:facepalm:

[denime]

The sad things is he (Mariner) doesn't have to answer to anyone. After the New York game the idiot went back home to Boston, I have never heard of a professional team having three days off after a loss especially when they are so bad. The players can't believe how he acts on the sidelines and how he calls them out after games. He is a drunk and has most of the journalists and people in the club as his drinking buddies, hence why they dont criticize him.

Frings is done he will not play for that idiot. He is not even hurt, he was just sick of the bullshit tactics. If it was up to Mariner he would get rid of the academy and get rid of all of the Canadian players except Dunfield as "he is the best box to box midfielder in the game" Morgan will be traded in the offseason as he is being shopped as we speak. We will lose our best academy prospects cause Mariner thinks they are all crap.

The FO must fire Earl for the constant screw ups and Mariner as he is lost and has no clue period. I could careless what happens to the balance of the FO as they don't really make a difference with the product on the pitch. If he stays expect a Toronto Maple Leafs fix circa the nineties sign veteran guys with the hope of squeaking into the playoffs and at the same time screwing the cap so who ever takes over will be handcuffed and it will take two or three years to get out of the mess Mariner and earl created.

So you heard the Boston story too,eh?Apparently they serve their beer very cold in Boston.

Frings not coming back is nothing new,Academy being PR story is coming out from different people lately,Mariner opinion about Academy boys nothing new,Morgan being traded is news to me,but I'm not surprised at all.

Looking forward for 2013 TFCircus with clown on the sideline.

[Furtado91]

So you heard the Boston story too,eh?Apparently they serve their beer very cold in Boston.

Frings not coming back is nothing new,Academy being PR story is coming out from different people lately,Mariner opinion about Academy boys nothing new,Morgan being traded is news to me,but I'm not surprised at all.

Looking forward for 2013 TFCircus with clown on the sideline.


Care to enlighten us with this story if you dont mind? sounds interesting.

[TFC07]

The sad things is he (Mariner) doesn't have to answer to anyone. After the New York game the idiot went back home to Boston, I have never heard of a professional team having three days off after a loss especially when they are so bad. The players can't believe how he acts on the sidelines and how he calls them out after games. He is a drunk and has most of the journalists and people in the club as his drinking buddies, hence why they dont criticize him.

Frings is done he will not play for that idiot. He is not even hurt, he was just sick of the bullshit tactics. If it was up to Mariner he would get rid of the academy and get rid of all of the Canadian players except Dunfield as "he is the best box to box midfielder in the game" Morgan will be traded in the offseason as he is being shopped as we speak. We will lose our best academy prospects cause Mariner thinks they are all crap.

The FO must fire Earl for the constant screw ups and Mariner as he is lost and has no clue period. I could careless what happens to the balance of the FO as they don't really make a difference with the product on the pitch. If he stays expect a Toronto Maple Leafs fix circa the nineties sign veteran guys with the hope of squeaking into the playoffs and at the same time screwing the cap so who ever takes over will be handcuffed and it will take two or three years to get out of the mess Mariner and earl created.

I find it very hard to believe in that. Morgan is one of few bright spots on this team. Not only that, he's pretty marketable player in Toronto market. I am sure someone with a brain in MLSE will step in and stop Mariner.

But Mariner not fan of academy isn't news to me. We all know he's anti-academy. Mariner and co don't understand how academy is a huge deal with a lot of soccer fans in GTA/Southern Ontario area. Killing academy will kill any interest left from grassroot soccer communities around the city.

[brad]

Morgan getting shopped makes sense if Mariner wants to stock the team with Vet's at desperate run to make the playoffs. I could see Vancouver or Montreal being interested in him if they need a LB.

Section 117 has a solid record of being right about these things in the past - so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt here.

[narduch]

Don't be surprised if we carry 3 Canadians next year like Montreal and Vancouver.

Morgan has enough MLS experience and respect now that I think you could even trade him to American MLS teams, despite being an international for those teams.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I don't know which article annoys me more, this one, or the one where Earl Cochrane tells us he's ANGRY.

The part at the end about the players makes me laugh though. Obviously this mess isn't Mariner's fault. The players just aren't up the the challenge.

I don't see why they would be anywhere close. Mariner was in control of player aquisition and failed. He was hired to know MLS for Winter then took his job to turn it around and failed. It was for nothing and completely irresponsible and DESPERATE that he was signed for 3 years with no plan.


Earl filled a void and his previous position had less control. Now he has more and by that means he should have a turn to make a difference.

[Chevy]

This is as good a place as any to put this...

I posted the query 'what are your thoughts on Paul Mariner as a head coach / manager ?' on a Plymouth Argyle site (remember, he is a legend there as a player).

Here are some comments :




If enthusiasm guaranteed success we'd be in the Premier League with him. Sadly it needs slightly more than enthusiasm to be a good manager and he just didn't have it.



Shocking your fans need to get this fool out of your club if you want your club to rise back up the league



28 games 7 wins 6 draws and 15 losses, clueless and couldn't motivate us, basically a great player does not a manager make.



PM had no man management skills !! it was the best thing pafc did letting him go, he was a good player but certainly No Manager.



Looked like a 50 year old Harry Potter but not magic in any way. Sad to see a club legend end like he did.



Dreadful manager, dreadful signings and dreadful tactics.



he was an absolute disaster with no tactical ability or contacts in the game to bring in decent players



Utter, unparalleled and unmitigated ineptitude.



Mariner may have been a class player been he was not a class manager.



Super player P M. Not successful as a manager / coach



a very passionate coach but sadly had no ideas at all tactically or in the transfer market


Are you ready for three more years of this ?


The really telling part of all this is that the quotes above all seem very objective - not coming from a place of anger or revenge.

[TOBOR !]

The really telling part of all this is that the quotes above all seem very objective - not coming from a place of anger or revenge.

Here's a more positive response :


Mariner was thrown into the deep end and did no worse than Reid or Sturrock (2nd time round)
Mariner took over a despondent team with in hindsight a chaotic crumbling ownership
I think with time as a number 2 he could have proved good and his enthusiasm and commitment were clear to see
I hope he gets a fair chance in his current position


So, given time as an assistant he could have eventually proven capable.

How much more time than the 4 years at New England would he need ?

[Phil]

Oh my, there is some creative and inventive writing going on here.

Maybe we should leave some of these rumours in the rubbish bin. Mariner and Winter interviewed the same week, amongst others. They were interviewed by many people in MLSE and decided on as a concensus. It certainly was not Earl doing one thing and pushing it onto the business.

I agree in principal about the choices and mixture not being right but just trying to set some facts out there.

[narduch]

Meh, you are a big Earl Cochrane apologist, so whatever.

I find it hard to believe that Mariner would have been on Klinnsman's short list.

We didn't need to hire Klinsmann to find Mariner. He should have been known to the team already due to his previous MLS experience.

[Section 117]

All I know is be prepare to watch an older squad next year. Built with Championship and League One rejects... Mariner is by far the worst manager we have ever employed. The difference between him and Mo, is at least Mo put in the hours and didn't know what he was doing. While Mariner has no clue (like Mo) and fucks off back to Boston any chance he gets as his wife doesn't want to come here. He puts little to no effort to actually coach the team. Again how does any respectable coach give their team 3 days off after they haven't won in a game in the last 10 in the league?????

I have no respect for him or Earl. They are one bigger fuck up then the next. I wish someone had the balls to ask questions... Not these soft questions that they probably give them the night before. I have a list of questions that I would like to ask PM and Earl. Where is John Molinaro??? He is the only one who might have the stones to ask any decent questions.

John if you read this hammer Mariner and Earl every chance you get not just on twitter, the truth needs to come out about these idiots, they have destroyed any hope of having a competitive team with this crap they call football.

[Phil]

Meh, you are a big Earl Cochrane apologist, so whatever.

I find it hard to believe that Mariner would have been on Klinnsman's short list.

We didn't need to hire Klinsmann to find Mariner. He should have been known to the team already due to his previous MLS experience.

I am pretty critical of Earl, but so many people are off the mark with some of this stuff.

I am just giving you facts that I know, not speculation about what happened in those couple of months.

[narduch]

I am pretty critical of Earl, but so many people are off the mark with some of this stuff.

I am just giving you facts that I know, not speculation about what happened in those couple of months.

Really? I've seen you defend him in the past.

Thanks for adding your input though as it adds to the picture. I still think it was a mistake to hire Mariner and Winter together and believe that it must have been due to different people in MLSE with diffrent agendas. I can't picture Klinsmann recommending Winter with Mariner to aide him.

[Section 117]

I find it very hard to believe in that. Morgan is one of few bright spots on this team. Not only that, he's pretty marketable player in Toronto market. I am sure someone with a brain in MLSE will step in and stop Mariner.

But Mariner not fan of academy isn't news to me. We all know he's anti-academy. Mariner and co don't understand how academy is a huge deal with a lot of soccer fans in GTA/Southern Ontario area. Killing academy will kill any interest left from grassroot soccer communities around the city.

This is where the problem lies, Mariner answers to Uncle Tom Anselmi and he is not a soccer guy. So he has complete control with no one to answer to. He will dump pretty munch every academy player for next year, cause he thinks they are all shit. He is a fucking clown, i wish i would run into him, while he is having multiple pints so i can hammer him. I would abuse the fuck out of him.

[Phil]

Really? I've seen you defend him in the past.

Thanks for adding your input though as it adds to the picture. I still think it was a mistake to hire Mariner and Winter together and believe that it must have been due to different people in MLSE with diffrent agendas. I can't picture Klinsmann recommending Winter with Mariner to aide him.

Yup I have defended him in the past, mostly because people were posting lies and slader about the guy. If people go after him on decisions he makes, fine, but to log into here and post lies its not cool. We tend to get worked up as supporters sometimes about totally false things and it doesnt help anyone doing that.

They had about a month of guys coming in to interview for positions during that period. Mariner and Winter got choosen, although I am still unsure about the nature of the positions and authority given to them at the hiring.

[Phil]

This is where the problem lies, Mariner answers to Uncle Tom Anselmi and he is not a soccer guy. So he has complete control with no one to answer to. He will dump pretty munch every academy player for next year, cause he thinks they are all shit. He is a fucking clown, i wish i would run into him, while he is having multiple pints so i can hammer him. I would abuse the fuck out of him.

Sounds like the Mo days...

[Canary10]

This is where the problem lies, Mariner answers to Uncle Tom Anselmi and he is not a soccer guy. So he has complete control with no one to answer to. He will dump pretty munch every academy player for next year, cause he thinks they are all shit. He is a fucking clown, i wish i would run into him, while he is having multiple pints so i can hammer him. I would abuse the fuck out of him.

Wow, that's strong stuff. I'm certainly no fan, but I'd rather stick a suit on him than hammer him....

[mastermixer]

This is where the problem lies, Mariner answers to Uncle Tom Anselmi and he is not a soccer guy. So he has complete control with no one to answer to. He will dump pretty munch every academy player for next year, cause he thinks they are all shit. He is a fucking clown, i wish i would run into him, while he is having multiple pints so i can hammer him. I would abuse the fuck out of him.

Just curious, there are a few guys on here that take the Mariner bashing a little further than just being a bad coach. I'm sure you can't say but is there stuff you guys know that make this situation even worse than what's on the surface?

[narduch]

Maybe he means hammer him with questions, lol.

[Section 117]

Sounds like the Mo days...

Worse than Mo, he Mariner puts in zero effort. He is having a laugh at MLSE and us cause he knows he is getting away with doing absolutely nothing. It is sad when we are comparing Mariner to Mo and Mo looks like a better option...

[denime]

Oh my, there is some creative and inventive writing going on here.

Maybe we should leave some of these rumours in the rubbish bin. Mariner and Winter interviewed the same week, amongst others. They were interviewed by many people in MLSE and decided on as a concensus. It certainly was not Earl doing one thing and pushing it onto the business.

I agree in principal about the choices and mixture not being right but just trying to set some facts out there.

Earl does not make decisions,after he signs paperwork they are two more layers to approve conrtacts above him,even though he knows more about soccer then stooges above him,he does not have a say for final decision,so yes I would agree that Earl did not sign Mariner.
Anselmi hired Mariner as back up plan if Winter fails,Mariner collected $$$ and waited for Winter to stumble.

[Oldtimer]

Really? I've seen you defend him in the past.

Thanks for adding your input though as it adds to the picture. I still think it was a mistake to hire Mariner and Winter together and believe that it must have been due to different people in MLSE with diffrent agendas. I can't picture Klinsmann recommending Winter with Mariner to aide him.

You should always identify speculation as such, like you did with this post.

[Section 117]

Just curious, there are a few guys on here that take the Mariner bashing a little further than just being a bad coach. I'm sure you can't say but is there stuff you guys know that make this situation even worse than what's on the surface?

I think the saying is "the truth with set you free" Well if everything came out about how useless and pathetic both Mariner and Earl are the fans would burn the stadium down.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3-bv9uNyvCh6Ihv1bQmjUgKKwoOeR9HLo_HMUGeTbqA5ol8X-Bg

There is so much politics and back stabbing since day one and it has gotten worse, since PM got here. You can guys can believe me if you want... All I want is a team to be proud of and Mariner and Earl will never make that a reality. Even if they make the playoffs next year, the quality of football will be worse then Preki cause at least he had a plan and system Mariner has none of that

[Section 117]

Wow, that's strong stuff. I'm certainly no fan, but I'd rather stick a suit on him than hammer him....

Sorry, I mean I would have a go and just question his actual knowledge of football. Not playing as there is no doubt he was a decent player (i never seen him play nor do I care to) But tactics and style and just general shit about how bad of job he is doing and tell him his actions on the sideline and the way he looks is an embaressment to the club and to the coaching profession.

[Canary10]

^ Ha, I thought you literally wanted to beat the crap out of him. The more I thought about it though, the more I would consider it....

I can`t believe there are people out there still defending him and saying give him time. You don`t need any insider knowledge to know he`s shit. He leaves it out on the pitch every game. It`s there for all to see.

[ag futbol]

There is so much politics and back stabbing since day one and it has gotten worse, since PM got here. You can guys can believe me if you want... All I want is a team to be proud of and Mariner and Earl will never make that a reality. Even if they make the playoffs next year, the quality of football will be worse then Preki cause at least he had a plan and system Mariner has none of that
I feel pretty safe stating that we won't make the playoffs next year. With the salary picture just released it's pretty clear they have no concept of what they are doing and won't even accidentally find the talent they need to win.

My concern is that they'll find a way to buy more time from ownership and we'll have to live with this garbage for the 2014 season as well.

[lobo]

Frings is done he will not play for that idiot. He is not even hurt, he was just sick of the bullshit tactics.

So, Frings recent arthroscopic hip surgery did or did not happen? Quite the conspiracy plot if there was no surgery.

[ag futbol]

Oh, and if we actually do trade Ashton Morgan, he’ll go down on the list with Tyrone Marshall, Sam Cronin, and every other serviceable MLS player we’ve traded at our own peril. I though even this management team wasn't capable of doing things this stupid.

As usual with this team, when it seems like we've definitely hit bottom, we just find more ways to keep digging.

[Section 117]

So, Frings recent arthroscopic hip surgery did or did not happen? Quite the conspiracy plot if there was no surgery.

I was told he is not hurt and did not need surgery. He told some one he needed to see a doctor because his neck hurts because all he does is watch the ball fly over his head all game... He is stunned that the FO would let this idiot (Mariner) run this club cause he has no clue. Frings came because of Klinsman and to work with Winter not this idiot.

[Canary10]

I was told he is not hurt and did not need surgery. He told some one he needed to see a doctor because his neck hurts because all he does is watch the ball fly over his head all game... He is stunned that the FO would let this idiot (Mariner) run this club cause he has no clue. Frings came because of Klinsman and to work with Winter not this idiot.

At one point I heard that Frings and Koevermans both asked for Winter to be fired. Any truth in that from what you know?

[David_Oliveira]

I was told that he did have surgery and that he has the body of a 90 year old. I was also told that if he recovers he will be back and that he wants to be back. He is unhappy about the results but loves being at TFC.


I was told he is not hurt and did not need surgery. He told some one he needed to see a doctor because his neck hurts because all he does is watch the ball fly over his head all game... He is stunned that the FO would let this idiot (Mariner) run this club cause he has no clue. Frings came because of Klinsman and to work with Winter not this idiot.

[narduch]

I fully expect Frings back too, but that's based on monetary reasons.

Even if he hates Mariner, he will only have to deal with him a few months anyways.

[lobo]

I was told he is not hurt and did not need surgery. He told some one he needed to see a doctor because his neck hurts because all he does is watch the ball fly over his head all game... He is stunned that the FO would let this idiot (Mariner) run this club cause he has no clue. Frings came because of Klinsman and to work with Winter not this idiot.

The neck injury joke is funny. Anyways, German media must be playing along cause they have reported he had surgery. Seems like a lot of speculation and rumours, even though it all sounds like it could be real.

Sec 117 -- Mind if i ask the source of your intel? No need to name names, but a clue or idea of the source would be helpful.

[Phil]

I have to circle back on faking hip surgery.

Ummmm, that sounds sketchy.

[denime]

So, Frings recent arthroscopic hip surgery did or did not happen? Quite the conspiracy plot if there was no surgery.

He decided that he will need to see a Doctor in Germany,right after Mariner threw him under the bus (CCL game),there is not conspiracy about hip,insurance fraud is last thing Frings need at the end of his carrier,what else Fring does not need is Mariner as a coach.

What Frings did not like about Winter was the way he treated him as the rest of the young guys,when it come to the curfew,Frings as veteran though he knew good enough how to behave and was discipline enough at his age.

What Frings does not like about Mariner is everything that has to do with soccer coaching,his tactic or no tactic is better to say,jumping around like a clown and constantly telling [players what to do,like he needs him to make a decision what to do on the field during the game,and at the end from a person very close to Frings I was told Frings made is sure to let Mariner know what he thinks about him ($^@#^($%$@) just before he took the flight back to Germany.

[denime]

I have to circle back on faking hip surgery.

Ummmm, that sounds sketchy.


Agree,we have to remember he is still getting paid buy the insurance,and to fake surgery is insurance fraud.does not matter how much he does not like Mariner insurance fraud is to much to f&#k around.

[Section 117]

The neck injury joke is funny. Anyways, German media must be playing along cause they have reported he had surgery. Seems like a lot of speculation and rumours, even though it all sounds like it could be real.

Sec 117 -- Mind if i ask the source of your intel? No need to name names, but a clue or idea of the source would be helpful.

I can't reveal who, but I know few people within the club. Both in the FO and people with contact with the first team. They tell me things which I need to filter as some things would be obvious of where it is coming from

[Canary10]

He decided that he will need to see a Doctor in Germany,right after Mariner threw him under the bus (CCL game),there is not conspiracy about hip,insurance fraud is last thing Frings need at the end of his carrier,what else Fring does not need is Mariner as a coach.

What Frings did not like about Winter was the way he treated him as the rest of the young guys,when it come to the curfew,Frings as veteran though he knew good enough how to behave and was discipline enough at his age.

What Frings does not like about Mariner is everything that has to do with soccer coaching,his tactic or no tactic is better to say,jumping around like a clown and constantly telling [players what to do,like he needs him to make a decision what to do on the field during the game,and at the end from a person very close to Frings I was told Frings made is sure to let Mariner know what he thinks about him ($^@#^($%$@) just before he took the flight back to Germany.

It`s not just Frings either. I sit near the TFC bench, and you can see the reactions of players to Mariner`s instructions. It generally is "are you fucking kiddding me?"

[Section 117]

I have to circle back on faking hip surgery.

Ummmm, that sounds sketchy.

Sorry let me clarify my statement, the surgery was not mandatory, he could have played through it, but it was an easy out. He has had that issue for many years and as Denime said when he left he made sure to tell Mariner what he tought of him and his lack of tactics.

[denime]

It`s not just Frings either. I sit near the TFC bench, and you can see the reactions of players to Mariner`s instructions. It generally is "are you fucking kiddding me?"

Yes,he is coaching them as they were 10-11 years old,one game a as 1st row behind the bench and I could not believe i,how bad he is a s a coach.His interaction with player on the field is literately REP U10 level,and BTW coaches from youth teams are being instructed to let kids make their own decisions on the filed otherwise they will never learn.

[Nuvinho]

I love this Soap Opera...the days inbetween games are so much more fun than watching the game itself these past few months.
6 seasons of a Soap Opera is a great run...I am looking forward to the 7th Soap Opera season, minus 2 or 4 of my 6 season tickets. Let's see how much more they can screw up this franchise.

[lobo]

Yes,he is coaching them as they were 10-11 years old,one game a as 1st row behind the bench and I could not believe i,how bad he is a s a coach.His interaction with player on the field is literately REP U10 level,and BTW coaches from youth teams are being instructed to let kids make their own decisions on the filed otherwise they will never learn.

That is more than obvious, I've been making this same observation for months now. Now I've been in situations where I coached rec teams, where we had 1 hr practice each week and most of the kids didn't show for it, and I was forced to provide coaching points in game. But it was usually basic stuff like ball from behind the head on throw-ins, but micro-managing players and game situations is ridiculous at any competitive level ... a player with a throw in near the bench doesn't need to hear coach screaming where to throw the ball. I learned this early in my youth coaching career, the players resent it, it is distracting, and it often gives the opponent a clue what's coming. It also leaves players feeling coach has no confidence in them, it's demoralizing. With my rep teams, we trained 3 times a week, and during games I sat back. I would keep my eye on injuries, fitness, match-ups, always looking for a hole to fill or an advantage we could use during a game. In-game decisions were limited to subs, tactics, formation changes.

Sadly, Mariner is not only interacting with these pro players as if they were rec youth players, but his tactics seem geared to rec youth soccer also.

[Canary10]

That is more than obvious, I've been making this same observation for months now. Now I've been in situations where I coached rec teams, where we had 1 hr practice each week and most of the kids didn't show for it, and I was forced to provide coaching points in game. But it was usually basic stuff like ball from behind the head on throw-ins, but micro-managing players and game situations is ridiculous at any competitive level ... a player with a throw in near the bench doesn't need to hear coach screaming where to throw the ball. I learned this early in my youth coaching career, the players resent it, it is distracting, and it often gives the opponent a clue what's coming. It also leaves players feeling coach has no confidence in them, it's demoralizing. With my rep teams, we trained 3 times a week, and during games I sat back. I would keep my eye on injuries, fitness, match-ups, always looking for a hole to fill or an advantage we could use during a game. In-game decisions were limited to subs, tactics, formation changes.

Sadly, Mariner is not only interacting with these pro players as if they were rec youth players, but his tactics seem geared to rec youth soccer also.

Funny you mention the throw-ins because I remember exactly that kind of situation with Ecks. Mariner is yelling at him to throw the ball into to someone`s feet who was like three feet away from him. Like just screaming it as if the game was at stake if he didn`t throw this ball into his feet. Ecks had this priceless look on his face - just as I said above. "Are you fucking kidding me" is exactly how it looked.

[DangerRed]

This club is ridiculous. "Shit, this guy used to actually PLAY soccer. Like, professionally. AND he has an accent from one of the British Isles. Think he's pretty qualified. On top of that, he likes to yell a lot and jump up and down. What's that? No management experience? Who cares?! He'll learn on the job! Hire this man!"

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

Re: the "faked surgery" comments: surgery can mean many things. For example, "arthroscopic surgery" is a type of surgery that is minimally invasive and is sometimes used as a diagnostic tool when, say, a person has complaints about joint pain that do not lend themselves to diagnosis by non-invasive methods. The point is, there are lots of ways a person can have surgery to address vaguely defined pain that would not constitute insurance fraud and don't require a grand conspiracy among various medical professionals.

[Phil]

Re: the "faked surgery" comments: surgery can mean many things. For example, "arthroscopic surgery" is a type of surgery that is minimally invasive and is sometimes used as a diagnostic tool when, say, a person has complaints about joint pain that do not lend themselves to diagnosis by non-invasive methods. The point is, there are lots of ways a person can have surgery to address vaguely defined pain that would not constitute insurance fraud and don't require a grand conspiracy among various medical professionals.

I think on the clarification it became a bit obvious. Its frings call on that and he is the only guy that knows.

Its funny complaining that Mariner is smothering the players when Winter did the exact opposite and lost the room. Looks like a no win from all sides.

[A Stick]

Worse than Mo, he Mariner puts in zero effort. He is having a laugh at MLSE and us cause he knows he is getting away with doing absolutely nothing. It is sad when we are comparing Mariner to Mo and Mo looks like a better option...

The goalie on my soccer team is good friends with TFC's video guy. Since Mariner has taken over, he has not once asked to watch a video that the videoaugrapher has produced for the organization.

[ag futbol]

I think on the clarification it became a bit obvious. Its frings call on that and he is the only guy that knows.

Its funny complaining that Mariner is smothering the players when Winter did the exact opposite and lost the room. Looks like a no win from all sides.
I think that's muddying the waters.

There are all kinds of different communication styles or possibilities in this situation, it's not as simple as Mariner is the type X manager and winter is the type Y manager. We don't know if Winter's communication style lost him the room... we don't even know if he was a good communicator in the first place...

[Phil]

Sorry, I was only refering to the state around it and it not being a case of fake surgery.

The reasons for the surgery and all that, well, thats the internet and muddy waters is right. Aside from hearing it from Torsten himself I will use a bit of skepticism.

[trane]

Everything Mariner touches is the best, the greatest, exetera, the dude is delusional.

[nfitz]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/10/03/toronto-fcs-mariner-i-have-best-job-leagueGood article! Sounds very positive!

Perhaps we can get a win tomorrow to start things rolling.

[Auzzy]

Just remember, don't feed it!

[DoubleUp]

Just remember, don't feed it!
:troll:

[lobo]

Good article! Sounds very positive!

Perhaps we can get a win tomorrow to start things rolling.

:shocked: sounds positive? does it fill you with confidence in mariner?

Toronto - DC United 3.08 3.26 2.23
OddsPortal.com

moneyline
Toronto FC +210 Draw +220 DC United +120
williamhill.com

[lobo]

Just remember, don't feed it!

damn it, i missed the warning

[Ajax TFC]

damn it, i missed the warning
YOU FOOL! What have you done?!?

[nonc]

the goalie on my soccer team is good friends with tfc's video guy. Since mariner has taken over, he has not once asked to watch a video that the videoaugrapher has produced for the organization.

tactics?

No frills! Motivation!!

[DoubleUp]

The goalie on my soccer team is good friends with TFC's video guy. Since Mariner has taken over, he has not once asked to watch a video that the videoaugrapher has produced for the organization.



Your Joking right.

[JuliquE]

I think that's muddying the waters.

There are all kinds of different communication styles or possibilities in this situation, it's not as simple as Mariner is the type X manager and winter is the type Y manager. We don't know if Winter's communication style lost him the room... we don't even know if he was a good communicator in the first place...
A couple people have said this and that Winter couldn't motivate our squad. I've always felt that an unfair assessment.

I have to remember the stories John Molinaro shared with us, regarding his interactions with Winter; I think he was strict/professional, but also humble. I thought he did really well to have that sit down with the squad and let everyone speak freely on what they want to see. Following this, we hit a good stretch of form.. just prior to his axing.

Like anyone, he had his short-comings.. but I don't think he was some delusional drone that couldn't recognize when something needed tweaking -- he showed that. If either of the two are horrible at motivating the lads, it's definitely Mariner; Winter only struggled when it seemed nothing was going our way -- injuries, dreadfully unlucky bounces and numerous brain-farts, by the players.. but, then, when things were stacking up against him, he completely flipped the script. Away from that wretched losing streak, he usually did well enough in preparing the players.

[Gazza]

Speculators gonna speculate.

[spark]

Could somebody remind me who actually advised Anselmi to hire Mariner?

My guess is Barry MacLean

[narduch]

I'm worried now that Mariner has become too much of a lightning rod for fan discontent.

Don't get me wrong, I think he is not the right guy for the job, but I'm worried that the hatred for him is getting so strong that once again guys like Cochrane and Anselmi will survive when Mariner is turfed (and he will be turfed, whether its in the next few weeks, or early next season).

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Yeah I think talking about all 3 of them every day keeps it pretty fresh in people's minds.

I wouldn't be too worried, narduch.

[__wowza]

Speculators gonna speculate.

this is now my new favourite thing on the boards..